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American Morning

Terror Threats Ignored; Hamas Founder Killed; Interview With Condoleezza Rice

Aired March 22, 2004 - 9:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Two hundred thousand Palestinians flooding the streets of Gaza City, vowing revenge after a Hamas leader is killed.
On the defensive today...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Richard Clarke had plenty of opportunities to tell us in the administration that he thought the war on terrorism was moving in the wrong direction. And he chose not to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Our interview with National Security Adviser Dr. Condoleezza Rice, responding to charges the president ignored terrorism.

And March madness can be so cruel. Two top seeds bite it over the weekend. The tournament continues, and so does the madness this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody.

Other stories that we're following this morning:

A man just back from Pakistan. Ken Robinson is going to talk to us this hour, talk about the fighting in those eastern mountains. We'll find out if the terrorists are really there or whether they may have once again slipped the noose.

HEMMER: Also, a report in the Scott Peterson case. Jury selection entering a final phase, but there could be a brand New snag. Could it send the whole process back to the drawing board and start over from square one? We'll get to that also this hour.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's get to our top stories, though, first.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon says Israel will press ahead with its war on terror after an Israeli strike left the spiritual leader of Hamas dead. Thousands took to the streets for today's funeral procession for Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Israeli helicopters struck him down Yassin last night, wounded two of his sons as well. We're going to take you live to Gaza in just a few moments.

Intelligence officials from five major European Union countries are meeting in Spain today to discuss terrorism. The summit comes as Spanish police arrest more suspects in connection with the March 11 train bombings. Court sources say four more suspects have been taken into custody. That comes to us according to The Associated Press.

Opening statements about to get under way in the state trial of Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols. Nichols has already been sentenced to life in prison after federal convictions for the 1995 bombing. He could be sentenced to death if he is convicted in the state trial. One hundred sixty-eight people died in the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. We're going to take you live to Oklahoma for more on that in just a few moments.

And crash test results are in for midsize cars. All but one made the top grade. The Acura TL and TSX, the Nissan Maxima, Chevy Malibu and the Mitsubishi Gallant all received good ratings from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. But the newest model of the Suzuki Verona scored just an acceptable rating. Officials say the air bag did not inflate when it was first tested.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: The White House today responding and reacting to some very critical statements about the president from a former administration insider. Suzanne Malveaux front line this morning, taking us through the steps today.

Good morning there.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

The White House is really hitting back hard on all fronts this morning. This comes at a critical time in the Bush administration has been under particular scrutiny for its war on terror, and also during a week when Bush and Clinton administration officials will go before the 9/11 Commission to testify publicly about what they knew before the attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): A scathing New book accuses President Bush of ignoring terrorist threats before September 11, unjustly linking that attack to Iraq and failing miserably in the war on terror today. The author is not a Democratic opponent, but Richard Clarke, former chief counterterrorism adviser to presidents Bush and Clinton, who makes his case not only on paper, but on "60 Minutes."

RICHARD CLARKE, FMR. COUNTERTERROISM COORDINATOR I think the way he has responded to al Qaeda, both before 9/11 by doing nothing, and by what he's done after 9/11, has made us less safe. I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he's done such great things about terrorism. He ignored it. Maybe we could have done something to stop 9/11.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president has said the right decision in every case.

MALVEAUX: The White House, so taken aback by Clarke's accusations, put out its communications director on a Sunday to discredit Clarke's story. Clarke says the day after September 11, the president took him aside and privately began pressuring him to link Iraq to the attack.

CLARKE: I said, "Mr. President, we've done this before. We've done this. We've been looking at this. We looked at it with an open mind. There's no connection."

He came back at me and said, "Iraq, Saddam, find out if there's a connection." And in a very intimidating way.

MALVEAUX: The White House vehemently denies that there was pressure to go after Hussein. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice told CNN this morning, "The issue was Clarke's plan to fight terror differed from the president's."

RICE: He has a different view of how to fight the war on terrorism. It is a narrow view. That it has to do with killing bin Laden and dealing with Afghanistan. The president has a broader view, which is that you have to take the fight to the terrorists.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now, the White House suggests that Clarke's accusations are politically motivated because of his close ties to Senator Kerry's foreign policy adviser, who was also part of President Bush's counterterrorism team before he quit over policy differences -- Bill.

HEMMER: Suzanne, thanks for that. We'll hear more from Dr. Rice in a few moments, responding to Clarke's charges. Coming up in a few minutes, the bottom of the hour here.

Also, Richard Clarke our guest tomorrow here on AMERICAN MORNING. More on that topic then and also throughout the morning here.

O'BRIEN: And, in fact, right now, as we check in with Jack and the "Question of the Day" -- hello.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Soledad.

The timing for President Bush probably couldn't have been any worse. How much damage will Clarke's charges do to the president's campaign? Here's some of what you've written us this morning.

Maurice in Perkasie, Pennsylvania: "First Paul O'Neill comes out and says Bush is preoccupied with Iraq. Then Clarke. How many whistle blowers need to show up before we actually start to believe them?"

Gene in New Hampshire writes: "Let me see if I have this right. Bush, who was in office for eight months, is being accused of not doing enough to stop September 11 by Democrats who were in office for eight years. It's surely going to be a long year."

And Jim in Harrisonburg, Virginia: "We all know that the reality all administrations want us to believe is constructed by them. Clarke's 30-year service as a top terrorism expert for four presidents appears to be an excellent attempt to deconstruct the reality the administration would have us believe."

O'BRIEN: I agree with Gene. It's gonna be a long year.

CAFFERTY: Indeed it is.

HEMMER: All right.

O'BRIEN: Barely just getting going.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thanks, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

O'BRIEN: The Palestinian group Hamas is suggesting that U.S. interests could be in danger after the death of its founder and spiritual leader. Sheikh Ahmed Yassin was killed this morning in an Israeli missile strike. Hamas is vowing revenge against Israel and the U.S. because it says American support of Israel paved the way for the attack on Yassin.

Chris burns live from Gaza City this morning.

Chris, good morning again.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

We are here in Gaza City. The protest is over. The morning continues.

It's three-day stages of mourning. The flags are at half-staff, the Palestinian flags. The people are in their homes, for the most part.

We are told, in shock, that Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, could be killed in his wheelchair as he rolled out of the mosque this morning after morning prayers. The 67-year-old quadriplegic was killed by the Israelis. Israelis saying that he has been the inspiration of countless terror attacks that have killed hundreds of Israelis.

The Palestinians outraged that such a killing could happen. So obviously the emotions are very high here. There are a lot of bonfires in the streets. The streets are still smoldering from the bonfires here. And people, quite a few, walking around in shock, just can't believe this could actually happen.

However, this does come about a week after a dual suicide bombing in the southern Israeli port of Ashdod that killed 10 people. And, as a result, the Israeli cabinet said they would step up both their targeted attacks on militant leaders, as well as incursions, raids into Gaza, which they have done.

So it doesn't come as a complete surprise that this happened. However, strong reaction from the Palestinian Authority condemning this, as what they call a cowardly act.

Back to you.

O'BRIEN: Chris Burns for us in Gaza this morning. Chris, thanks.

Bill?

HEMMER: In a moment here, Pakistani troops battling suspected al Qaeda for days. Five days, in fact. They may have allowed a chance for some to escape, slipping through their hands. We'll get to that in a moment with someone who is just back from the region.

O'BRIEN: And the state trial for convicted Oklahoma bombing conspirator Terry Nichols. We're going take you live to Oklahoma for that just ahead.

HEMMER: Also, get out your brackets today. The NCAA tournament now down to sweet 16. And two of the top teams are gone.

Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: What Pakistan had called a high-value target could have escaped its forces through a secret tunnel. Pakistani troops discovering tunnels up to a mile long in the mountains where they've had hundreds of al Qaeda fighters pinned down for about a week. That battle was ongoing, and many times it was fierce.

CNN terrorism analyst Ken Robinson was in Afghanistan, then Pakistan. He just returned last night from the region.

Ken, welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Nice to see you back safe here, back as well.

KEN ROBINSON, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Thanks, Bill.

HEMMER: Let's talk about the news of the day, these tunnels. How much was that talked about as a possible escape route for whoever was hiding out there in this attack?

ROBINSON: It was always a consideration by the Pakistani military because they know that there are tunnels that are going through this area from the time of Alexander the Great, to Genghis Khan. During the time when the British empire was trying to subjugate this northern and southern Waziristan area, that was a commonplace thing for the people they were up against to take refuge in these tunnels. And so they always knew that there were tunnel systems there and the potential existed, which is why they tried to do two double cordons, but apparently it may not have worked.

HEMMER: An extremely difficult place to corner, too, no matter how many people you send up there, if it's 7,000 or 10,000 or more. Listen, you were there last week when Pervez Musharraf made the comment about this high-value target. Pakistanis are backing away from that right now.

I'm not quite sure what transpired between last week and today. But if you can put the pieces together for us, help us understand it.

ROBINSON: Well, we originally, during the day, about five hours prior to speaking to President Musharraf, we were speaking to very senior members of his government. And they were the first ones that raised the clues that this battle that was going on, that was pitched, was very ferocious. And they indicated that they felt there was a very high-value target there and they were suspecting that it potentially could have been Ayman al-Zawahiri based on the level of the fighting, the technical levels of the defense, the use of mortar rounds and pre-positioned mortar rounds, and the casualties they were taking.

Normally, this enemy fades away into the mountains. They don't stand and fight. And so from those intelligence briefings that we received, that was the precipitous for the question to Aaron Brown to the president, where he then made news.

HEMMER: In this tribal region of Waziristan, it's been well documented that Pakistan, as a government, doesn't go into this area. But they have now. What are the potential repercussions because of this? How are the Pakistani people responding?

ROBINSON: Certain elements of the Pakistani population in both the cities and in the tribal areas resent the incursion. However, President Musharraf, three days prior to the exercise beginning, had gone into the tribal area and he properly met with the tribal leaders in that area, explained to them the policy, explained to them that they needed to be part of Pakistan's future, not its past, and then seek their permission to go in the area to conduct offensive operations.

HEMMER: But he said something to you, also. He said we're not doing this for the U.S.?

ROBINSON: President Musharraf said, look, we are not doing this for the United States of America. We are doing this for us, because this is part of our future. We need to moderate these areas. And we need to make sure that Muslims are moderated away from fundamental -- fanaticism and terrorism and join the community of a greater Pakistan. And that's part of his plan, his economic improvements in the area, to make the central government more real to their daily lives because they've not been there in 30 years. HEMMER: And we're all waiting for the verdict as a result of that battle. Thanks, Ken. Good to have you back. We'll talk again. Ken Robinson from D.C.

ROBINSON: Thank you, Bill.

HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: He is already serving a life term on federal charges. Now Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols could get a death sentence from the state.

CNN's Susan Candiotti live for us in McAlester, Oklahoma, for opening statements in the Nichols murder trial.

Susan, good morning.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. Indeed, opening statements are scheduled to begin in less than an hour now in the second trial of the second man involved in the nation's worst home-bred case of terrorism.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Terry Nichols is brought to and from the courthouse wearing what appears to be a bullet-proof vest for his own safety, while state prosecutors are trying to have him put to death for the Oklahoma City bombing nine years ago.

ANN OWENS, RESTAURANT PATRON: I remember watching the news after it had happened. And I just thought to myself, this is horrible.

CANDIOTTI: In federal court, bomber Timothy McVeigh was convicted and executed. His buddy, Terry Nichols, was sentenced to life. Now the state of Oklahoma is putting Nichols on trial, seeking the death penalty.

HOLLY WHITE, RESTAURANT PATRON: It's fair, because we deserve as Oklahomans to say how we feel because it was done in our state.

SARA MCEWEN, RESTAURANT PATRON: I think it's a waste of money because he's already got the three lifetimes. And the state really can't afford it.

CANDIOTTI: The strongest evidence against Nichols was found in his Kansas home, sixty feet of detonator cord, plastic barrels said to resemble those used in the attack. The defense says others still uncaught must have helped McVeigh. Nichols must have been a fall guy.

Nichols' trial is taking place in McAlester, home to the Oklahoma State penitentiary and the state's death row. But even victims' families realize that what most want may not come soon.

ROY SELLS, VICTIM'S HUSBAND: I doubt -- I'm 70 years old, and I doubt very seriously whether, if he gets a death sentence, where I'll ever get to see him die. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI: Terry Nichols looked solemn and said nothing as he was led into the courthouse this morning. Jurors who will decide his fate include a munitions plant employee and a chef at a local restaurant. The trial could last four to six months -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Susan Candiotti for us this morning. Susan, thanks.

Still to come this morning, we're going to hear from National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice about new allegations that the Bush administration mishandled the war on terror.

Also, another first-place finish for Wal-Mart. What does that say about the economy? A look at that is just ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: We're back, everybody. "Fortune's" list of the 500 top companies is out, and it provides more than just bragging rights for the top companies. Andy Serwer is on a little vacation. Susan Lisovicz is "Minding Your Business" this morning. These two are like gossiping...

(CROSSTALK)

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I know what they're talking about.

HEMMER: Just in time for Easter. You look like two lovely eggs.

O'BRIEN: "Like two lovely eggs" I think is what he just said. Thank you.

LISOVICZ: We're good eggs.

HEMMER: You are very good eggs.

O'BREMER: You interrupted my segment for that, that we look like two lovely eggs? Susan, ignore them and let's move on.

LISOVICZ: OK. I'll ignore them and I'll talk about business.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the Fortune 500.

LISOVICZ: The emphasis is on "fortune" here, because these companies in the top five certainly reaped a fortune. We'll start with the world's biggest retailer, Wal-Mart, generating $259 billion last year alone in revenue.

But I think what's really interesting is the company that came in second. We've been talking about prices at the pump. Well, that pumped up the bottom line of a lot of oil companies.

Exxon Mobile, which actually did much better, doubled the profits of Wal-Mart. More than doubled the profits. And we saw Conoco -- Chevron, Texaco and ConocoPhillips also in the top 10.

GM and Ford also in the top five. What did they sell a lot of? The gas guzzling SUVs.

O'BRIEN: Coincidence? I don't think so.

LISOVICZ: I know. But if the prices stay that high, you wonder if they're going to be able to sell as many expensive, very lucrative SUVs.

We also want to mention some of the new arrivals to the list. It's kind of telling.

We have Bed, Bath & Beyond, which is way beyond at this point of view. If you've ever been in one of their stores, they're so huge.

Brinker International...

O'BRIEN: What's that? I never heard of them.

LISOVICZ: Well, if you live in the burbs, you know this particular restaurant chain, because they're behind Chili's, On the Border, Romanos Macaroni Grill. So people have been eating out a lot. And certainly at Brinkers International they've done well.

The dropouts include Health South. That's a company that certainly been in the news. A target of an SEC accounting probe, de- listed from the NYSE. It's a penny stock now. And that's really hurt it. Neiman Marcus, the luxury retailer, also dropping out as well.

O'BRIEN: They've been struggling a lot. Yes, and if you have a big scandal, that's going to move you right off that list.

LISOVICZ: Yes, it's funny, that cause and effect.

O'BRIEN: Do you want to preview the market for us this morning? We've got the opening bell in just a couple of minutes.

LISOVICZ: More of the same, unfortunately. We have two straight weeks of declines for the three major averages.

Talked to a couple traders this morning that had different views. One says the geopolitical scene definitely taking center stage right now. Not only what happened in Israel with the assassination of a key Hamas figure, but also the Taiwanese elections over the weekend. There was an assassination attempt there, a challenge there.

But the other traders said, look, a correction is normal. Been up straight for a year. And you're seeing a pullback now, that the market rally will return.

O'BRIEN: All right. Susan Lisovicz for us. Thanks, Susan.

LISOVICZ: My pleasure.

HEMMER: The best eggs. You guys look lovely. O'BRIEN: Good. Thank you. I have like five things that fit me. I think you should just be happy that I got something that works.

HEMMER: You look terrific.

(CROSSTALK)

HEMMER: I hope you're sitting down. I want to take you back to over the weekend. Not a pretty weekend for some of the top teams in the NCAA tournament.

Number one seed overall, Kentucky is out. Knocked out yesterday by UAB. Alabama Birmingham 76-75. That's the final (UNINTELLIGIBLE). They did not go for the Wildcats.

The first number one seed to fall on Saturday was Stanford, the top ranked team in the country. Also on Saturday, Alabama came alive during that game, pulled off the win, 70-67 the final.

Gonzaga from the West, a favorite to make to it the final four, never in it. Nevada out of Reno, Jack Cafferty's home town...

CAFFERTY: There you go.

HEMMER: ... shocked them 91-72 the final. Really blew them out in the second half.

Sixteen teams now left in the final of that tournament. The anchor picks here on CNN quickly, Hemmer chose Kentucky. He's gone. Soledad chose Stanford.

O'BRIEN: No, Todd chose Stanford for Soledad.

HEMMER: Todd, yes, yes, right.

Jack, with Syracuse you're still alive, my friend.

CAFFERTY: Thank you. Do I win anything if I get in this race?

HEMMER: Not...

CAFFERTY: Then I don't care.

HEMMER: And Andy has Texas. So now you know.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice is firing back at former anti-terrorism coordinator Richard Clarke. Clarke accusing the Bush administration of failing to recognize the al Qaeda threat. We've got more of that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HEMMER: A sunshiny day here in New York. Welcome back, 9:30 here in Manhattan.

As we continue the next 30 minutes, in a few moments, our interview with National Security adviser Dr. Condoleezza Rice, speaking with Soledad earlier today, defending the president, defending the White House, defending herself after some very serious charges from a former member of the administration. We'll get to that interview in a moment.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, what happens now in the Middle East after the founder of Hamas is killed by Israeli missiles? Lisa Beyer of TIME Magazine with us this half-hour looking at the impact of Israel's decision. The question, of course, is Hamas less of a threat now or will the situation just get worse there?

HEMMER: Top stories now at the half-hour:

The head of the U.S. Central Command meeting today with Pakistani officials in Islamabad. General John Abizaid's visit described as routine by the U.S. and Pakistan. This trip obviously coming as the Pakistani army continues to battle suspected al Qaeda militants along the Afghan border. Pakistani officials say military forces there have found a series of tunnels that may have been used and may have allowed al Qaeda terrorists to get out.

Intelligence officials from five major European countries meeting in Spain today to talk about terrorism. The summit comes as Spanish police arrest more suspects in connection with the train bombings on March 11. According to Spanish state radio, court sources say four more suspects have been taken into custody today.

This country now. In the U.S., from New Jersey, the judge in the Jayson Williams trial expected to hear defense arguments today on why charges against the former NBA star should be dropped. The judge has given defense lawyers two days to present its case. The prosecution rested its case against Williams last week.

From Washington State, a lesbian pastor has been acquitted of church-based charges, but the controversy over gay clergy continues in the Methodist Church. Reverend Karen Damon (ph) acquitted over the weekend of violating a church ban on ordaining self-avowed practicing homosexuals. But the issue of gay clergy will be debated at the Methodist Church's general conference next month.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: A full-fledged political battle is being waged right now between the Bush White House and its former counterterrorism coordinator. In a new book being published today, Richard Clarke accuses President Bush of ignoring terrorism warnings before the September 11 attacks. He also accuses the White House of mishandling the war on terror since 9/11.

Last night on CBS' "60 Minutes," Clarke talked about his frustration with the president's national security team. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARKE: Well, there's a lot of blame to go around. And I probably deserve some blame, too. But on January 24th of 2001, I wrote a memo to Condoleezza Rice asking for urgently -- underlined, urgently -- a cabinet level meeting to deal with the impending al Qaeda attack. And that urgent memo wasn't acted on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Earlier this morning, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice joined us from the White House to respond to Clarke's claims.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICE: Dick Clarke, in that memo, responded to my request for initiatives that we ought to be undertaking. And what he did was, after we had all been briefed on the al Qaeda threat and understood what the Clinton administration had been doing, he wanted another meeting. I didn't think another meeting was necessary. The principals knew what the threat was.

What we needed was a strategy. And what Dick Clarke gave me in that memorandum was a series of ideas, a series of steps, most of which, by the way, we did within a matter of months. Steps like trying to accelerate the arming of the predator. Steps like increasing counterterrorism funding, increasing counterterrorism support to Uzbekistan.

These were steps that he said would roll back al Qaeda over a three to five-year period. This was not going to address the, "urgent threat of September 11th."

We did ask Dick Clarke for a more comprehensive strategy, one that would not just seek to roll back al Qaeda, but would seek to eliminate al Qaeda. That would have real military options, not just options of pinprick strikes against training camps that had already been abandoned.

We asked for a strategy that could be effectively funded. We increased intelligence activities by factor of three in the strategy that was developed. So that's what Dick Clarke was supposed to be doing. At the same time, he was to continue the Clinton administration strategy until we got a new strategy in place.

O'BRIEN: What Richard Clarke has had to say -- many people are, of course, reading into the president's re-election bid. I want to play you another small chunk of what he said last night.

CLARKE: I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he has done such great things about terrorism. He ignored it. He ignored terrorism for months when maybe we could have done something to stop 911.

O'BRIEN: Richard Clarke says he was a registered Republican back in 2000. We heard from Dan Bartlett at the White House that this was politically motivated. But again, this is a man who worked for the first President Bush, who worked for President Reagan as well.

What do you think Richard Clarke's motivations are?

RICE: I really don't know what Richard Clarke's motivations are. But I'll tell you this: Richard Clarke had plenty of opportunities to tell us in the administration that he thought the war on terrorism was moving in the wrong direction. And he chose not to.

In fact, when he came to me and asked if I would support him with Tom Ridge to become the deputy secretary of Homeland Security, a department which he now says should never have been created, when he asked me to support him in that job, he said he supported the president. So, frankly, I'm flabbergasted.

I will say this: Dick Clarke was the counterterrorism czar when attacks took place in '98 from al Qaeda and in 2000 from al Qaeda, when plots were hatched against the United States by al Qaeda. He has a different view of how to fight the war on terrorism. It is a narrow view. It has to do with killing bin Laden and dealing with Afghanistan.

The president has a broader view, which is that you have to take the fight to the terrorists. We have eliminated their base in Afghanistan. We have freed 25 million Afghans. In addition, the president believes that you have to go to the center of the Middle East and deal with the threats there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: That was Dr. Condoleezza Rice talking to us a little bit earlier this morning. Richard Clarke will be our guest tomorrow on AMERICAN MORNING at 7:00 a.m. Eastern -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, 22 before the hour now.

Palestinians have started three days of mourning after the death of a founder and spiritual leader of the group Hamas. Sheikh Ahmed Yassin killed in Gaza City at daybreak earlier today after an Israeli missile strike. Also, earlier on AMERICAN MORNING, we heard from representatives from both sides, the Israelis and the Palestinians, about Yassin and what this killing means.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALON PINKAS, ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL: This is a man who embodies terrorism. This is a man who was arrested twice, who was arrested by the Egyptians to begin with. Arrested twice, he's masterminded the brutal killings of children, women, way up in the hundreds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is absolutely ridiculous to allege that the man who cannot see, cannot hear, and who is on wheelchair can constitute a threat to the biggest military power in the Middle East and one of the biggest in the world. That's absolute nonsense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: TIME Magazine's assistant managing editor, Lisa Beyer, with us to talk more about this.

Nice to have you. Good morning to you.

LISA BEYER, ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR, TIME MAGAZINE: Good morning to you.

HEMMER: How significant is this right now to target this man?

BEYER: It's very significant. The Israelis generally have operated in the principle of not going after the heads of their enemies. It's the reason that Yasser Arafat, in the days when the Israelis were fighting the PLO, was never killed by the Israelis. They had him in their sights many number of times.

But the notion was that if you try to kill the head of your enemy, the enemy will try to kill the head of you. That is to say, the prime minister. And so there's been this sort of hands-off attitude.

Now we've seen the Israelis actually kill the head of Hamas. And you can expect an enormous retaliation by that organization.

HEMMER: Is it your understanding that the Israelis are -- always knew and were aware of his movements?

BEYER: My understanding is, over the last year, yes.

HEMMER: They did.

BEYER: They've been monitoring it.

HEMMER: If so, then why now?

BEYER: Well, that's a very good question. I can tell you that the decision to kill him was made by the government last week. And that since that decision was made, essentially the Israeli security forces have been waiting for a moment when he was not surrounded by a lot of civilians

In the last year, certainly since September, when Sheikh Yassin was in a meeting with Mohammed Daf (ph), a very key Hamas leader who the Israelis tried to target, and Yassin was injured, he has tended to travel, Yassin, and be surrounded at all times by a great number of civilians, especially women and children. It was a moment of opportunity at daybreak. He was only near a couple of bodyguard, and the Israelis took it.

Now, as to why they made the decision last week to kill him, there are a number of theories. No one knows exactly why. I suppose the most cynical theory is that Sharon is trying to change the subject because he's under investigation in a major corruption scandal that could bring him down.

I think probably a more realistic explanation is that the Israelis are planning to withdraw from Gaza. They've got this plan to pull the settlements out of Gaza and to take their forces out of Gaza.

The Israelis were very, very concerned by the fact that, in 2000, when they withdrew their forces from south Lebanon, this was a seen of weakness by Hezbollah and by some of Israel's other enemies. And the Israelis are very concerned that if they withdraw from Gaza that it not be seen as a sign of weakness. And so I think they're going about taking out as many of their enemies as they can.

HEMMER: One quick point here. The Israeli defense minister earlier today said he was -- Yassin was the Palestinian bin Laden. What did he represent for the Israelis? What did they allege that he was responsible for in terms of the violence we have seen for decades now?

BEYER: Well, in the early part of Hamas' history, they did accuse Sheikh Yassin of being actually involved as the mastermind of the kidnapping and killing of two Israeli soldiers. And, in fact, the Israelis had him in jail for I think eight years. Since that time...

HEMMER: And then released.

BEYER: And then released, yes, under duress on the part of the Israelis. They were basically forced to do it in a political compromise with the king of Jordan when the Israelis tried to kill another Hamas leader in Jordan and it very much upset the Jordanians.

But since that time, the Israelis, at least to my knowledge, have never accused Sheikh Yassin, have never had evidence that he was actually masterminding a particular -- or had ordered a particular hit. And I think Sheikh Yassin was probably quite careful never to actually order military operations by Hamas.

He was more of the chief cleric, of the inspiration for Hamas. He would tell people publicly that Palestinians should go out and give their lives for the cause. But he was not so much like Osama bin Laden in that he was not a hands-on director of the military or terrorist operations of Hamas.

He didn't fund them. He didn't order them. He didn't orchestrate them. He didn't direct them.

There was a separate -- he didn't need to. Hamas didn't need him for that.

HEMMER: Thank you, Lisa. Good of you to make time for us today. Lisa Beyer from TIME Magazine.

Thank you.

BEYER: Sure. HEMMER: Here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, a former insider drops a political bombshell on the White House. Just how bad is the damage? A look at that.

HEMMER: Also, what does it take to knock "The Passion" out of the first-place spot? Three week run, $300 million in profit. That story is coming up in our "90-Second Pop."

Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Scott Peterson's lawyer will be arguing for another change of venue in a California courtroom today. Ted Rowlands is standing by for us in Redwood City, California.

Ted, good morning.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

The judge gave both sides a week off, basically, to prepare for this expected change of venue request. The problem is, the defense never actually filed a motion for a change of venue. So nobody is quite sure what to expect when court resumes this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROWLANDS (voice-over): Defense attorney Mark Geragos told the court it was his intention to formally ask for relief from what he says is a tainted jury pool. But a court-imposed deadline has come and gone. And no motion has been filed. On March 9th, Geragos told the judge that he'd be asking for one of three remedies: another change of venue, a separate jury for the guilt and penalty phase, or extra challenges to get rid of unwanted jurors.

MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: All I want, and I think all the judge wants, is to get a fair and impartial jury and not get a stealth juror or jurors.

SCOTT PETERSON, DEFENDANT: People accuse me...

ROWLANDS: A defense motion to exclude Scott Peterson's statements to the media is scheduled to be ruled on when court resumes this morning. Geragos is arguing that the statements are not relevant to the charges and should be thrown out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROWLANDS: And it is expected that the judge will take up the media request by Geragos to throw out all of Peterson's statements when court resumes. That is going to take place in just under two hours out here in Redwood City, California -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Ted Rowlands for us this morning in Redwood City. Ted, thanks.

Bill?

HEMMER: Still to come, super model Tyra Banks has a hot new reality TV show.

In a moment here, we'll also go to the movies. Who has "The Passion" now? "90-Second Pop" takes a crack at that right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: All right. On a Monday, loosening things up now. "90- Second Pop" time. Humorist Andy Borowitz back with us.

Nice to see you, Andy. Happy Monday.

ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: Good to be here.

HEMMER: You're like here every day, aren't you?

BOROWITZ: I never leave.

HEMMER: My gosh.

New York Magazine contributing editor Sara Bernard.

Great to have you back, Sara. Good morning.

SARA BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Good morning.

HEMMER: And Toure, contributing editor for Rolling Stone. Still wearing the coolest colors in his shirts.

(CROSSTALK)

TOURE, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE: Bill, come on. Unreal.

HEMMER: Do you think so? I'm taking lessons off you, man.

TOURE: Keep it real.

BOROWITZ: Gentlemen, it's very close.

BERNARD: And you in all black (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

HEMMER: Sara, Tyra Banks has a show called "America's Next Top Model."

BERNARD: That's right.

HEMMER: Is it any good?

BERNARD: It's great. And it finishes this week. It's really, really fun. It's down to three. I predict Shaundy (ph) is going to win.

HEMMER: OK.

BERNARD: It's not going to mean much to you, but she's the underdog.

HEMMER: Hang on for a second. What's the premise? I've never seen it.

BERNARD: All these people want to be America's next top model. It's very, very simple.

TOURE: It's like "The Apprentice." But instead of Donald, Tyra.

BERNARD: That's right. And all these other models.

BOROWITZ: I think the show is actually derivative of "The Apprentice." Because whoever becomes America's top model also wins a position with Trump eventually.

BERNARD: Right. So it's all those factored in.

BOROWITZ: It seems like the same -- it's the same show.

BERNARD: But the real winner is really Tyra Banks. I think she said this week that she wants to be the next Oprah Winfrey. Not in the sense of having her own talk show, but as having a big empire.

She's got her pop single coming out. I think she can actually do it. There's life beyond Victoria's Secret.

HEMMER: The show has huge ratings, right?

TOURE: It's such a cult show. If you like the show, you love it, you're into it. I have been arguing with people on the street. "Shaundy's (ph) going to win." "No, April's going to win."

BERNARD: See, we agree.

BOROWITZ: I'm thrilled to see models finally getting the recognition they deserve in our culture.

HEMMER: Ain't that the truth, man?

BOROWITZ: They have been...

BERNARD: They're such underdogs.

BOROWITZ: ... unrecognized for their accomplishments.

HEMMER: At the box office, "Dawn of the Dead" beat out "The Passion." There's a joke in this.

BOROWITZ: You know what? This is not a joke. I wanted to see how Hollywood would report this thing. So I went right to Variety, and Daily Variety had this headline -- it said, "With $27 Million, Resurrected Zombies Topple Christ." So that's -- you've heard it from Hollywood.

TOURE: Is it sacrilegious to root against "The Passion?" I don't think so.

HEMMER: Well, "The Passion" has won $300 million already. It's probably going to go much higher than that.

TOURE: I know. But Mel Gibson is like a high-tech Jehovah's witness, like coming to our house, pushing his religion on us.

HEMMER: Listen, Jim Carrey's film's out. Did you like it?

TOURE: This is so beautiful. So much fun. It's one of these simultaneous multiple consciousness movies.

It's like this melancholy song that makes you sad. You want to keep listening to it. It was just so great.

And Charlie Kaufman, the screenwriter, is such a genius. Like, I'm sitting there the whole time going, "Jeez, I wish I wrote this. I wish I wrote this."

BERNARD: But don't you think this is better than his other ones and less convoluted than "Being John Malkovich" or "Adaptation?"

TOURE: Yes.

HEMMER: Wait a minute. The title is "Eternal Sunshine on the Spotless Mind." Someone has stolen the sunshine here in New York City.

Who wants to tackle Norah Jones? It's her "Sophomore" album, her second release. More than two million copies sold. Surprising lot of people.

TOURE: Five weeks in a row at number one. Unbelievable for a blue note album, a jazzy album. I mean, it's an album that's like fun. You can eat lunch to it and you can have sex to it.

BOROWITZ: No, no, no. You know what?

(CROSSTALK)

BERNARD: I don't understand that. It is so boring. I really just don't get it.

BOROWITZ: Norah Jones is yuppie make-out music. You put it on, close your eyes, and pretend that you're in Restoration Hardware.

(LAUGHTER)

BERNARD: I think that is on the Restoration Hardware soundtrack, actually.

HEMMER: Listen, in the iPod era, I think it's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a lot of people five months of straight growth in the record industry. And lot of people did not think that.

Hey, good to see you, man.

BOROWITZ: Good to see you.

HEMMER: Andy. Sara, I'd reach for you but it's too far away.

BERNARD: Good to see you.

HEMMER: I'm still taking notes off you...

TOURE: No way, baby. Look at your nails, man.

HEMMER: Here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: And coming up on CNN this morning, the government is about to announce a major step forward making the nation's ports safer against radiological attacks. That's coming up in the next hour with Daryn Kagan in "CNN LIVE TODAY."

AMERICAN MORNING is back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Time to check in with Jack and the "Question of the Day."

CAFFERTY: The question of the day is as follows: How much damage will Richard Clarke's claims do to the president's campaign? He's that counterterrorism guy that was on "60 Minutes" last night.

John in San Marcos, California, says, "Give me a break. Clarke's a disgruntled employee who was demoted, and rightfully so. If he was such a fantastic terrorist czar, why didn't he clean up al Qaeda during the eight years he served under Clinton? He's an opportunistic trying to hype his new book. I smell something more than a best seller here."

Steve in Florida: "In the short term, it will be tough for the White House to overcome charges from a man with Clarke's background of service in both Republican and Democratic administrations." He served under four presidents. "In the long run, though, if the economy and the job situation turn around, short of George Bush sprouting horns and carrying a pitchfork, Republican loyalists will still support him."

Susan in Rochester says, "I can't be worried about Clarke, lying politicians, mud-slinging campaigns, cheating CEOs. I have to worry about putting Martha in jail and gay marriages. Can anyone spell smoke screen?"

HEMMER: Good e-mails today.

CAFFERTY: Did you like those?

HEMMER: Dr. Rice earlier today. CAFFERTY: Here, take these home with you.

HEMMER: Thank you.

CAFFERTY: Put them in your little scrapbook.

HEMMER: Richard Clarke's with us tomorrow. We'll get his perspective yet again. I don't know if you saw the "60 Minutes" story last night, though. Pretty gripping television.

CAFFERTY: You suppose he's going to sell a few books?

HEMMER: I would say.

O'BRIEN: More than a few is what I bet on.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

HEMMER: Hey, we had a busy Monday. Did we not?

O'BRIEN: We did.

HEMMER: A whole lot to talk about. I hope you're back with us again tomorrow on a Tuesday.

For Jack and Soledad and me, we're out of here.





With Condoleezza Rice>


Aired March 22, 2004 - 9:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Two hundred thousand Palestinians flooding the streets of Gaza City, vowing revenge after a Hamas leader is killed.
On the defensive today...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Richard Clarke had plenty of opportunities to tell us in the administration that he thought the war on terrorism was moving in the wrong direction. And he chose not to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Our interview with National Security Adviser Dr. Condoleezza Rice, responding to charges the president ignored terrorism.

And March madness can be so cruel. Two top seeds bite it over the weekend. The tournament continues, and so does the madness this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody.

Other stories that we're following this morning:

A man just back from Pakistan. Ken Robinson is going to talk to us this hour, talk about the fighting in those eastern mountains. We'll find out if the terrorists are really there or whether they may have once again slipped the noose.

HEMMER: Also, a report in the Scott Peterson case. Jury selection entering a final phase, but there could be a brand New snag. Could it send the whole process back to the drawing board and start over from square one? We'll get to that also this hour.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's get to our top stories, though, first.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon says Israel will press ahead with its war on terror after an Israeli strike left the spiritual leader of Hamas dead. Thousands took to the streets for today's funeral procession for Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Israeli helicopters struck him down Yassin last night, wounded two of his sons as well. We're going to take you live to Gaza in just a few moments.

Intelligence officials from five major European Union countries are meeting in Spain today to discuss terrorism. The summit comes as Spanish police arrest more suspects in connection with the March 11 train bombings. Court sources say four more suspects have been taken into custody. That comes to us according to The Associated Press.

Opening statements about to get under way in the state trial of Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols. Nichols has already been sentenced to life in prison after federal convictions for the 1995 bombing. He could be sentenced to death if he is convicted in the state trial. One hundred sixty-eight people died in the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. We're going to take you live to Oklahoma for more on that in just a few moments.

And crash test results are in for midsize cars. All but one made the top grade. The Acura TL and TSX, the Nissan Maxima, Chevy Malibu and the Mitsubishi Gallant all received good ratings from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. But the newest model of the Suzuki Verona scored just an acceptable rating. Officials say the air bag did not inflate when it was first tested.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: The White House today responding and reacting to some very critical statements about the president from a former administration insider. Suzanne Malveaux front line this morning, taking us through the steps today.

Good morning there.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

The White House is really hitting back hard on all fronts this morning. This comes at a critical time in the Bush administration has been under particular scrutiny for its war on terror, and also during a week when Bush and Clinton administration officials will go before the 9/11 Commission to testify publicly about what they knew before the attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): A scathing New book accuses President Bush of ignoring terrorist threats before September 11, unjustly linking that attack to Iraq and failing miserably in the war on terror today. The author is not a Democratic opponent, but Richard Clarke, former chief counterterrorism adviser to presidents Bush and Clinton, who makes his case not only on paper, but on "60 Minutes."

RICHARD CLARKE, FMR. COUNTERTERROISM COORDINATOR I think the way he has responded to al Qaeda, both before 9/11 by doing nothing, and by what he's done after 9/11, has made us less safe. I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he's done such great things about terrorism. He ignored it. Maybe we could have done something to stop 9/11.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president has said the right decision in every case.

MALVEAUX: The White House, so taken aback by Clarke's accusations, put out its communications director on a Sunday to discredit Clarke's story. Clarke says the day after September 11, the president took him aside and privately began pressuring him to link Iraq to the attack.

CLARKE: I said, "Mr. President, we've done this before. We've done this. We've been looking at this. We looked at it with an open mind. There's no connection."

He came back at me and said, "Iraq, Saddam, find out if there's a connection." And in a very intimidating way.

MALVEAUX: The White House vehemently denies that there was pressure to go after Hussein. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice told CNN this morning, "The issue was Clarke's plan to fight terror differed from the president's."

RICE: He has a different view of how to fight the war on terrorism. It is a narrow view. That it has to do with killing bin Laden and dealing with Afghanistan. The president has a broader view, which is that you have to take the fight to the terrorists.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now, the White House suggests that Clarke's accusations are politically motivated because of his close ties to Senator Kerry's foreign policy adviser, who was also part of President Bush's counterterrorism team before he quit over policy differences -- Bill.

HEMMER: Suzanne, thanks for that. We'll hear more from Dr. Rice in a few moments, responding to Clarke's charges. Coming up in a few minutes, the bottom of the hour here.

Also, Richard Clarke our guest tomorrow here on AMERICAN MORNING. More on that topic then and also throughout the morning here.

O'BRIEN: And, in fact, right now, as we check in with Jack and the "Question of the Day" -- hello.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Soledad.

The timing for President Bush probably couldn't have been any worse. How much damage will Clarke's charges do to the president's campaign? Here's some of what you've written us this morning.

Maurice in Perkasie, Pennsylvania: "First Paul O'Neill comes out and says Bush is preoccupied with Iraq. Then Clarke. How many whistle blowers need to show up before we actually start to believe them?"

Gene in New Hampshire writes: "Let me see if I have this right. Bush, who was in office for eight months, is being accused of not doing enough to stop September 11 by Democrats who were in office for eight years. It's surely going to be a long year."

And Jim in Harrisonburg, Virginia: "We all know that the reality all administrations want us to believe is constructed by them. Clarke's 30-year service as a top terrorism expert for four presidents appears to be an excellent attempt to deconstruct the reality the administration would have us believe."

O'BRIEN: I agree with Gene. It's gonna be a long year.

CAFFERTY: Indeed it is.

HEMMER: All right.

O'BRIEN: Barely just getting going.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thanks, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

O'BRIEN: The Palestinian group Hamas is suggesting that U.S. interests could be in danger after the death of its founder and spiritual leader. Sheikh Ahmed Yassin was killed this morning in an Israeli missile strike. Hamas is vowing revenge against Israel and the U.S. because it says American support of Israel paved the way for the attack on Yassin.

Chris burns live from Gaza City this morning.

Chris, good morning again.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

We are here in Gaza City. The protest is over. The morning continues.

It's three-day stages of mourning. The flags are at half-staff, the Palestinian flags. The people are in their homes, for the most part.

We are told, in shock, that Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, could be killed in his wheelchair as he rolled out of the mosque this morning after morning prayers. The 67-year-old quadriplegic was killed by the Israelis. Israelis saying that he has been the inspiration of countless terror attacks that have killed hundreds of Israelis.

The Palestinians outraged that such a killing could happen. So obviously the emotions are very high here. There are a lot of bonfires in the streets. The streets are still smoldering from the bonfires here. And people, quite a few, walking around in shock, just can't believe this could actually happen.

However, this does come about a week after a dual suicide bombing in the southern Israeli port of Ashdod that killed 10 people. And, as a result, the Israeli cabinet said they would step up both their targeted attacks on militant leaders, as well as incursions, raids into Gaza, which they have done.

So it doesn't come as a complete surprise that this happened. However, strong reaction from the Palestinian Authority condemning this, as what they call a cowardly act.

Back to you.

O'BRIEN: Chris Burns for us in Gaza this morning. Chris, thanks.

Bill?

HEMMER: In a moment here, Pakistani troops battling suspected al Qaeda for days. Five days, in fact. They may have allowed a chance for some to escape, slipping through their hands. We'll get to that in a moment with someone who is just back from the region.

O'BRIEN: And the state trial for convicted Oklahoma bombing conspirator Terry Nichols. We're going take you live to Oklahoma for that just ahead.

HEMMER: Also, get out your brackets today. The NCAA tournament now down to sweet 16. And two of the top teams are gone.

Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: What Pakistan had called a high-value target could have escaped its forces through a secret tunnel. Pakistani troops discovering tunnels up to a mile long in the mountains where they've had hundreds of al Qaeda fighters pinned down for about a week. That battle was ongoing, and many times it was fierce.

CNN terrorism analyst Ken Robinson was in Afghanistan, then Pakistan. He just returned last night from the region.

Ken, welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Nice to see you back safe here, back as well.

KEN ROBINSON, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Thanks, Bill.

HEMMER: Let's talk about the news of the day, these tunnels. How much was that talked about as a possible escape route for whoever was hiding out there in this attack?

ROBINSON: It was always a consideration by the Pakistani military because they know that there are tunnels that are going through this area from the time of Alexander the Great, to Genghis Khan. During the time when the British empire was trying to subjugate this northern and southern Waziristan area, that was a commonplace thing for the people they were up against to take refuge in these tunnels. And so they always knew that there were tunnel systems there and the potential existed, which is why they tried to do two double cordons, but apparently it may not have worked.

HEMMER: An extremely difficult place to corner, too, no matter how many people you send up there, if it's 7,000 or 10,000 or more. Listen, you were there last week when Pervez Musharraf made the comment about this high-value target. Pakistanis are backing away from that right now.

I'm not quite sure what transpired between last week and today. But if you can put the pieces together for us, help us understand it.

ROBINSON: Well, we originally, during the day, about five hours prior to speaking to President Musharraf, we were speaking to very senior members of his government. And they were the first ones that raised the clues that this battle that was going on, that was pitched, was very ferocious. And they indicated that they felt there was a very high-value target there and they were suspecting that it potentially could have been Ayman al-Zawahiri based on the level of the fighting, the technical levels of the defense, the use of mortar rounds and pre-positioned mortar rounds, and the casualties they were taking.

Normally, this enemy fades away into the mountains. They don't stand and fight. And so from those intelligence briefings that we received, that was the precipitous for the question to Aaron Brown to the president, where he then made news.

HEMMER: In this tribal region of Waziristan, it's been well documented that Pakistan, as a government, doesn't go into this area. But they have now. What are the potential repercussions because of this? How are the Pakistani people responding?

ROBINSON: Certain elements of the Pakistani population in both the cities and in the tribal areas resent the incursion. However, President Musharraf, three days prior to the exercise beginning, had gone into the tribal area and he properly met with the tribal leaders in that area, explained to them the policy, explained to them that they needed to be part of Pakistan's future, not its past, and then seek their permission to go in the area to conduct offensive operations.

HEMMER: But he said something to you, also. He said we're not doing this for the U.S.?

ROBINSON: President Musharraf said, look, we are not doing this for the United States of America. We are doing this for us, because this is part of our future. We need to moderate these areas. And we need to make sure that Muslims are moderated away from fundamental -- fanaticism and terrorism and join the community of a greater Pakistan. And that's part of his plan, his economic improvements in the area, to make the central government more real to their daily lives because they've not been there in 30 years. HEMMER: And we're all waiting for the verdict as a result of that battle. Thanks, Ken. Good to have you back. We'll talk again. Ken Robinson from D.C.

ROBINSON: Thank you, Bill.

HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: He is already serving a life term on federal charges. Now Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols could get a death sentence from the state.

CNN's Susan Candiotti live for us in McAlester, Oklahoma, for opening statements in the Nichols murder trial.

Susan, good morning.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. Indeed, opening statements are scheduled to begin in less than an hour now in the second trial of the second man involved in the nation's worst home-bred case of terrorism.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Terry Nichols is brought to and from the courthouse wearing what appears to be a bullet-proof vest for his own safety, while state prosecutors are trying to have him put to death for the Oklahoma City bombing nine years ago.

ANN OWENS, RESTAURANT PATRON: I remember watching the news after it had happened. And I just thought to myself, this is horrible.

CANDIOTTI: In federal court, bomber Timothy McVeigh was convicted and executed. His buddy, Terry Nichols, was sentenced to life. Now the state of Oklahoma is putting Nichols on trial, seeking the death penalty.

HOLLY WHITE, RESTAURANT PATRON: It's fair, because we deserve as Oklahomans to say how we feel because it was done in our state.

SARA MCEWEN, RESTAURANT PATRON: I think it's a waste of money because he's already got the three lifetimes. And the state really can't afford it.

CANDIOTTI: The strongest evidence against Nichols was found in his Kansas home, sixty feet of detonator cord, plastic barrels said to resemble those used in the attack. The defense says others still uncaught must have helped McVeigh. Nichols must have been a fall guy.

Nichols' trial is taking place in McAlester, home to the Oklahoma State penitentiary and the state's death row. But even victims' families realize that what most want may not come soon.

ROY SELLS, VICTIM'S HUSBAND: I doubt -- I'm 70 years old, and I doubt very seriously whether, if he gets a death sentence, where I'll ever get to see him die. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CANDIOTTI: Terry Nichols looked solemn and said nothing as he was led into the courthouse this morning. Jurors who will decide his fate include a munitions plant employee and a chef at a local restaurant. The trial could last four to six months -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Susan Candiotti for us this morning. Susan, thanks.

Still to come this morning, we're going to hear from National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice about new allegations that the Bush administration mishandled the war on terror.

Also, another first-place finish for Wal-Mart. What does that say about the economy? A look at that is just ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: We're back, everybody. "Fortune's" list of the 500 top companies is out, and it provides more than just bragging rights for the top companies. Andy Serwer is on a little vacation. Susan Lisovicz is "Minding Your Business" this morning. These two are like gossiping...

(CROSSTALK)

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I know what they're talking about.

HEMMER: Just in time for Easter. You look like two lovely eggs.

O'BRIEN: "Like two lovely eggs" I think is what he just said. Thank you.

LISOVICZ: We're good eggs.

HEMMER: You are very good eggs.

O'BREMER: You interrupted my segment for that, that we look like two lovely eggs? Susan, ignore them and let's move on.

LISOVICZ: OK. I'll ignore them and I'll talk about business.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the Fortune 500.

LISOVICZ: The emphasis is on "fortune" here, because these companies in the top five certainly reaped a fortune. We'll start with the world's biggest retailer, Wal-Mart, generating $259 billion last year alone in revenue.

But I think what's really interesting is the company that came in second. We've been talking about prices at the pump. Well, that pumped up the bottom line of a lot of oil companies.

Exxon Mobile, which actually did much better, doubled the profits of Wal-Mart. More than doubled the profits. And we saw Conoco -- Chevron, Texaco and ConocoPhillips also in the top 10.

GM and Ford also in the top five. What did they sell a lot of? The gas guzzling SUVs.

O'BRIEN: Coincidence? I don't think so.

LISOVICZ: I know. But if the prices stay that high, you wonder if they're going to be able to sell as many expensive, very lucrative SUVs.

We also want to mention some of the new arrivals to the list. It's kind of telling.

We have Bed, Bath & Beyond, which is way beyond at this point of view. If you've ever been in one of their stores, they're so huge.

Brinker International...

O'BRIEN: What's that? I never heard of them.

LISOVICZ: Well, if you live in the burbs, you know this particular restaurant chain, because they're behind Chili's, On the Border, Romanos Macaroni Grill. So people have been eating out a lot. And certainly at Brinkers International they've done well.

The dropouts include Health South. That's a company that certainly been in the news. A target of an SEC accounting probe, de- listed from the NYSE. It's a penny stock now. And that's really hurt it. Neiman Marcus, the luxury retailer, also dropping out as well.

O'BRIEN: They've been struggling a lot. Yes, and if you have a big scandal, that's going to move you right off that list.

LISOVICZ: Yes, it's funny, that cause and effect.

O'BRIEN: Do you want to preview the market for us this morning? We've got the opening bell in just a couple of minutes.

LISOVICZ: More of the same, unfortunately. We have two straight weeks of declines for the three major averages.

Talked to a couple traders this morning that had different views. One says the geopolitical scene definitely taking center stage right now. Not only what happened in Israel with the assassination of a key Hamas figure, but also the Taiwanese elections over the weekend. There was an assassination attempt there, a challenge there.

But the other traders said, look, a correction is normal. Been up straight for a year. And you're seeing a pullback now, that the market rally will return.

O'BRIEN: All right. Susan Lisovicz for us. Thanks, Susan.

LISOVICZ: My pleasure.

HEMMER: The best eggs. You guys look lovely. O'BRIEN: Good. Thank you. I have like five things that fit me. I think you should just be happy that I got something that works.

HEMMER: You look terrific.

(CROSSTALK)

HEMMER: I hope you're sitting down. I want to take you back to over the weekend. Not a pretty weekend for some of the top teams in the NCAA tournament.

Number one seed overall, Kentucky is out. Knocked out yesterday by UAB. Alabama Birmingham 76-75. That's the final (UNINTELLIGIBLE). They did not go for the Wildcats.

The first number one seed to fall on Saturday was Stanford, the top ranked team in the country. Also on Saturday, Alabama came alive during that game, pulled off the win, 70-67 the final.

Gonzaga from the West, a favorite to make to it the final four, never in it. Nevada out of Reno, Jack Cafferty's home town...

CAFFERTY: There you go.

HEMMER: ... shocked them 91-72 the final. Really blew them out in the second half.

Sixteen teams now left in the final of that tournament. The anchor picks here on CNN quickly, Hemmer chose Kentucky. He's gone. Soledad chose Stanford.

O'BRIEN: No, Todd chose Stanford for Soledad.

HEMMER: Todd, yes, yes, right.

Jack, with Syracuse you're still alive, my friend.

CAFFERTY: Thank you. Do I win anything if I get in this race?

HEMMER: Not...

CAFFERTY: Then I don't care.

HEMMER: And Andy has Texas. So now you know.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice is firing back at former anti-terrorism coordinator Richard Clarke. Clarke accusing the Bush administration of failing to recognize the al Qaeda threat. We've got more of that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HEMMER: A sunshiny day here in New York. Welcome back, 9:30 here in Manhattan.

As we continue the next 30 minutes, in a few moments, our interview with National Security adviser Dr. Condoleezza Rice, speaking with Soledad earlier today, defending the president, defending the White House, defending herself after some very serious charges from a former member of the administration. We'll get to that interview in a moment.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, what happens now in the Middle East after the founder of Hamas is killed by Israeli missiles? Lisa Beyer of TIME Magazine with us this half-hour looking at the impact of Israel's decision. The question, of course, is Hamas less of a threat now or will the situation just get worse there?

HEMMER: Top stories now at the half-hour:

The head of the U.S. Central Command meeting today with Pakistani officials in Islamabad. General John Abizaid's visit described as routine by the U.S. and Pakistan. This trip obviously coming as the Pakistani army continues to battle suspected al Qaeda militants along the Afghan border. Pakistani officials say military forces there have found a series of tunnels that may have been used and may have allowed al Qaeda terrorists to get out.

Intelligence officials from five major European countries meeting in Spain today to talk about terrorism. The summit comes as Spanish police arrest more suspects in connection with the train bombings on March 11. According to Spanish state radio, court sources say four more suspects have been taken into custody today.

This country now. In the U.S., from New Jersey, the judge in the Jayson Williams trial expected to hear defense arguments today on why charges against the former NBA star should be dropped. The judge has given defense lawyers two days to present its case. The prosecution rested its case against Williams last week.

From Washington State, a lesbian pastor has been acquitted of church-based charges, but the controversy over gay clergy continues in the Methodist Church. Reverend Karen Damon (ph) acquitted over the weekend of violating a church ban on ordaining self-avowed practicing homosexuals. But the issue of gay clergy will be debated at the Methodist Church's general conference next month.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: A full-fledged political battle is being waged right now between the Bush White House and its former counterterrorism coordinator. In a new book being published today, Richard Clarke accuses President Bush of ignoring terrorism warnings before the September 11 attacks. He also accuses the White House of mishandling the war on terror since 9/11.

Last night on CBS' "60 Minutes," Clarke talked about his frustration with the president's national security team. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARKE: Well, there's a lot of blame to go around. And I probably deserve some blame, too. But on January 24th of 2001, I wrote a memo to Condoleezza Rice asking for urgently -- underlined, urgently -- a cabinet level meeting to deal with the impending al Qaeda attack. And that urgent memo wasn't acted on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Earlier this morning, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice joined us from the White House to respond to Clarke's claims.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICE: Dick Clarke, in that memo, responded to my request for initiatives that we ought to be undertaking. And what he did was, after we had all been briefed on the al Qaeda threat and understood what the Clinton administration had been doing, he wanted another meeting. I didn't think another meeting was necessary. The principals knew what the threat was.

What we needed was a strategy. And what Dick Clarke gave me in that memorandum was a series of ideas, a series of steps, most of which, by the way, we did within a matter of months. Steps like trying to accelerate the arming of the predator. Steps like increasing counterterrorism funding, increasing counterterrorism support to Uzbekistan.

These were steps that he said would roll back al Qaeda over a three to five-year period. This was not going to address the, "urgent threat of September 11th."

We did ask Dick Clarke for a more comprehensive strategy, one that would not just seek to roll back al Qaeda, but would seek to eliminate al Qaeda. That would have real military options, not just options of pinprick strikes against training camps that had already been abandoned.

We asked for a strategy that could be effectively funded. We increased intelligence activities by factor of three in the strategy that was developed. So that's what Dick Clarke was supposed to be doing. At the same time, he was to continue the Clinton administration strategy until we got a new strategy in place.

O'BRIEN: What Richard Clarke has had to say -- many people are, of course, reading into the president's re-election bid. I want to play you another small chunk of what he said last night.

CLARKE: I find it outrageous that the president is running for re-election on the grounds that he has done such great things about terrorism. He ignored it. He ignored terrorism for months when maybe we could have done something to stop 911.

O'BRIEN: Richard Clarke says he was a registered Republican back in 2000. We heard from Dan Bartlett at the White House that this was politically motivated. But again, this is a man who worked for the first President Bush, who worked for President Reagan as well.

What do you think Richard Clarke's motivations are?

RICE: I really don't know what Richard Clarke's motivations are. But I'll tell you this: Richard Clarke had plenty of opportunities to tell us in the administration that he thought the war on terrorism was moving in the wrong direction. And he chose not to.

In fact, when he came to me and asked if I would support him with Tom Ridge to become the deputy secretary of Homeland Security, a department which he now says should never have been created, when he asked me to support him in that job, he said he supported the president. So, frankly, I'm flabbergasted.

I will say this: Dick Clarke was the counterterrorism czar when attacks took place in '98 from al Qaeda and in 2000 from al Qaeda, when plots were hatched against the United States by al Qaeda. He has a different view of how to fight the war on terrorism. It is a narrow view. It has to do with killing bin Laden and dealing with Afghanistan.

The president has a broader view, which is that you have to take the fight to the terrorists. We have eliminated their base in Afghanistan. We have freed 25 million Afghans. In addition, the president believes that you have to go to the center of the Middle East and deal with the threats there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: That was Dr. Condoleezza Rice talking to us a little bit earlier this morning. Richard Clarke will be our guest tomorrow on AMERICAN MORNING at 7:00 a.m. Eastern -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, 22 before the hour now.

Palestinians have started three days of mourning after the death of a founder and spiritual leader of the group Hamas. Sheikh Ahmed Yassin killed in Gaza City at daybreak earlier today after an Israeli missile strike. Also, earlier on AMERICAN MORNING, we heard from representatives from both sides, the Israelis and the Palestinians, about Yassin and what this killing means.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALON PINKAS, ISRAELI CONSUL GENERAL: This is a man who embodies terrorism. This is a man who was arrested twice, who was arrested by the Egyptians to begin with. Arrested twice, he's masterminded the brutal killings of children, women, way up in the hundreds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is absolutely ridiculous to allege that the man who cannot see, cannot hear, and who is on wheelchair can constitute a threat to the biggest military power in the Middle East and one of the biggest in the world. That's absolute nonsense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: TIME Magazine's assistant managing editor, Lisa Beyer, with us to talk more about this.

Nice to have you. Good morning to you.

LISA BEYER, ASSISTANT MANAGING EDITOR, TIME MAGAZINE: Good morning to you.

HEMMER: How significant is this right now to target this man?

BEYER: It's very significant. The Israelis generally have operated in the principle of not going after the heads of their enemies. It's the reason that Yasser Arafat, in the days when the Israelis were fighting the PLO, was never killed by the Israelis. They had him in their sights many number of times.

But the notion was that if you try to kill the head of your enemy, the enemy will try to kill the head of you. That is to say, the prime minister. And so there's been this sort of hands-off attitude.

Now we've seen the Israelis actually kill the head of Hamas. And you can expect an enormous retaliation by that organization.

HEMMER: Is it your understanding that the Israelis are -- always knew and were aware of his movements?

BEYER: My understanding is, over the last year, yes.

HEMMER: They did.

BEYER: They've been monitoring it.

HEMMER: If so, then why now?

BEYER: Well, that's a very good question. I can tell you that the decision to kill him was made by the government last week. And that since that decision was made, essentially the Israeli security forces have been waiting for a moment when he was not surrounded by a lot of civilians

In the last year, certainly since September, when Sheikh Yassin was in a meeting with Mohammed Daf (ph), a very key Hamas leader who the Israelis tried to target, and Yassin was injured, he has tended to travel, Yassin, and be surrounded at all times by a great number of civilians, especially women and children. It was a moment of opportunity at daybreak. He was only near a couple of bodyguard, and the Israelis took it.

Now, as to why they made the decision last week to kill him, there are a number of theories. No one knows exactly why. I suppose the most cynical theory is that Sharon is trying to change the subject because he's under investigation in a major corruption scandal that could bring him down.

I think probably a more realistic explanation is that the Israelis are planning to withdraw from Gaza. They've got this plan to pull the settlements out of Gaza and to take their forces out of Gaza.

The Israelis were very, very concerned by the fact that, in 2000, when they withdrew their forces from south Lebanon, this was a seen of weakness by Hezbollah and by some of Israel's other enemies. And the Israelis are very concerned that if they withdraw from Gaza that it not be seen as a sign of weakness. And so I think they're going about taking out as many of their enemies as they can.

HEMMER: One quick point here. The Israeli defense minister earlier today said he was -- Yassin was the Palestinian bin Laden. What did he represent for the Israelis? What did they allege that he was responsible for in terms of the violence we have seen for decades now?

BEYER: Well, in the early part of Hamas' history, they did accuse Sheikh Yassin of being actually involved as the mastermind of the kidnapping and killing of two Israeli soldiers. And, in fact, the Israelis had him in jail for I think eight years. Since that time...

HEMMER: And then released.

BEYER: And then released, yes, under duress on the part of the Israelis. They were basically forced to do it in a political compromise with the king of Jordan when the Israelis tried to kill another Hamas leader in Jordan and it very much upset the Jordanians.

But since that time, the Israelis, at least to my knowledge, have never accused Sheikh Yassin, have never had evidence that he was actually masterminding a particular -- or had ordered a particular hit. And I think Sheikh Yassin was probably quite careful never to actually order military operations by Hamas.

He was more of the chief cleric, of the inspiration for Hamas. He would tell people publicly that Palestinians should go out and give their lives for the cause. But he was not so much like Osama bin Laden in that he was not a hands-on director of the military or terrorist operations of Hamas.

He didn't fund them. He didn't order them. He didn't orchestrate them. He didn't direct them.

There was a separate -- he didn't need to. Hamas didn't need him for that.

HEMMER: Thank you, Lisa. Good of you to make time for us today. Lisa Beyer from TIME Magazine.

Thank you.

BEYER: Sure. HEMMER: Here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, a former insider drops a political bombshell on the White House. Just how bad is the damage? A look at that.

HEMMER: Also, what does it take to knock "The Passion" out of the first-place spot? Three week run, $300 million in profit. That story is coming up in our "90-Second Pop."

Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Scott Peterson's lawyer will be arguing for another change of venue in a California courtroom today. Ted Rowlands is standing by for us in Redwood City, California.

Ted, good morning.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

The judge gave both sides a week off, basically, to prepare for this expected change of venue request. The problem is, the defense never actually filed a motion for a change of venue. So nobody is quite sure what to expect when court resumes this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROWLANDS (voice-over): Defense attorney Mark Geragos told the court it was his intention to formally ask for relief from what he says is a tainted jury pool. But a court-imposed deadline has come and gone. And no motion has been filed. On March 9th, Geragos told the judge that he'd be asking for one of three remedies: another change of venue, a separate jury for the guilt and penalty phase, or extra challenges to get rid of unwanted jurors.

MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: All I want, and I think all the judge wants, is to get a fair and impartial jury and not get a stealth juror or jurors.

SCOTT PETERSON, DEFENDANT: People accuse me...

ROWLANDS: A defense motion to exclude Scott Peterson's statements to the media is scheduled to be ruled on when court resumes this morning. Geragos is arguing that the statements are not relevant to the charges and should be thrown out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROWLANDS: And it is expected that the judge will take up the media request by Geragos to throw out all of Peterson's statements when court resumes. That is going to take place in just under two hours out here in Redwood City, California -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Ted Rowlands for us this morning in Redwood City. Ted, thanks.

Bill?

HEMMER: Still to come, super model Tyra Banks has a hot new reality TV show.

In a moment here, we'll also go to the movies. Who has "The Passion" now? "90-Second Pop" takes a crack at that right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: All right. On a Monday, loosening things up now. "90- Second Pop" time. Humorist Andy Borowitz back with us.

Nice to see you, Andy. Happy Monday.

ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: Good to be here.

HEMMER: You're like here every day, aren't you?

BOROWITZ: I never leave.

HEMMER: My gosh.

New York Magazine contributing editor Sara Bernard.

Great to have you back, Sara. Good morning.

SARA BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Good morning.

HEMMER: And Toure, contributing editor for Rolling Stone. Still wearing the coolest colors in his shirts.

(CROSSTALK)

TOURE, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE: Bill, come on. Unreal.

HEMMER: Do you think so? I'm taking lessons off you, man.

TOURE: Keep it real.

BOROWITZ: Gentlemen, it's very close.

BERNARD: And you in all black (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

HEMMER: Sara, Tyra Banks has a show called "America's Next Top Model."

BERNARD: That's right.

HEMMER: Is it any good?

BERNARD: It's great. And it finishes this week. It's really, really fun. It's down to three. I predict Shaundy (ph) is going to win.

HEMMER: OK.

BERNARD: It's not going to mean much to you, but she's the underdog.

HEMMER: Hang on for a second. What's the premise? I've never seen it.

BERNARD: All these people want to be America's next top model. It's very, very simple.

TOURE: It's like "The Apprentice." But instead of Donald, Tyra.

BERNARD: That's right. And all these other models.

BOROWITZ: I think the show is actually derivative of "The Apprentice." Because whoever becomes America's top model also wins a position with Trump eventually.

BERNARD: Right. So it's all those factored in.

BOROWITZ: It seems like the same -- it's the same show.

BERNARD: But the real winner is really Tyra Banks. I think she said this week that she wants to be the next Oprah Winfrey. Not in the sense of having her own talk show, but as having a big empire.

She's got her pop single coming out. I think she can actually do it. There's life beyond Victoria's Secret.

HEMMER: The show has huge ratings, right?

TOURE: It's such a cult show. If you like the show, you love it, you're into it. I have been arguing with people on the street. "Shaundy's (ph) going to win." "No, April's going to win."

BERNARD: See, we agree.

BOROWITZ: I'm thrilled to see models finally getting the recognition they deserve in our culture.

HEMMER: Ain't that the truth, man?

BOROWITZ: They have been...

BERNARD: They're such underdogs.

BOROWITZ: ... unrecognized for their accomplishments.

HEMMER: At the box office, "Dawn of the Dead" beat out "The Passion." There's a joke in this.

BOROWITZ: You know what? This is not a joke. I wanted to see how Hollywood would report this thing. So I went right to Variety, and Daily Variety had this headline -- it said, "With $27 Million, Resurrected Zombies Topple Christ." So that's -- you've heard it from Hollywood.

TOURE: Is it sacrilegious to root against "The Passion?" I don't think so.

HEMMER: Well, "The Passion" has won $300 million already. It's probably going to go much higher than that.

TOURE: I know. But Mel Gibson is like a high-tech Jehovah's witness, like coming to our house, pushing his religion on us.

HEMMER: Listen, Jim Carrey's film's out. Did you like it?

TOURE: This is so beautiful. So much fun. It's one of these simultaneous multiple consciousness movies.

It's like this melancholy song that makes you sad. You want to keep listening to it. It was just so great.

And Charlie Kaufman, the screenwriter, is such a genius. Like, I'm sitting there the whole time going, "Jeez, I wish I wrote this. I wish I wrote this."

BERNARD: But don't you think this is better than his other ones and less convoluted than "Being John Malkovich" or "Adaptation?"

TOURE: Yes.

HEMMER: Wait a minute. The title is "Eternal Sunshine on the Spotless Mind." Someone has stolen the sunshine here in New York City.

Who wants to tackle Norah Jones? It's her "Sophomore" album, her second release. More than two million copies sold. Surprising lot of people.

TOURE: Five weeks in a row at number one. Unbelievable for a blue note album, a jazzy album. I mean, it's an album that's like fun. You can eat lunch to it and you can have sex to it.

BOROWITZ: No, no, no. You know what?

(CROSSTALK)

BERNARD: I don't understand that. It is so boring. I really just don't get it.

BOROWITZ: Norah Jones is yuppie make-out music. You put it on, close your eyes, and pretend that you're in Restoration Hardware.

(LAUGHTER)

BERNARD: I think that is on the Restoration Hardware soundtrack, actually.

HEMMER: Listen, in the iPod era, I think it's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a lot of people five months of straight growth in the record industry. And lot of people did not think that.

Hey, good to see you, man.

BOROWITZ: Good to see you.

HEMMER: Andy. Sara, I'd reach for you but it's too far away.

BERNARD: Good to see you.

HEMMER: I'm still taking notes off you...

TOURE: No way, baby. Look at your nails, man.

HEMMER: Here's Soledad.

O'BRIEN: And coming up on CNN this morning, the government is about to announce a major step forward making the nation's ports safer against radiological attacks. That's coming up in the next hour with Daryn Kagan in "CNN LIVE TODAY."

AMERICAN MORNING is back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Time to check in with Jack and the "Question of the Day."

CAFFERTY: The question of the day is as follows: How much damage will Richard Clarke's claims do to the president's campaign? He's that counterterrorism guy that was on "60 Minutes" last night.

John in San Marcos, California, says, "Give me a break. Clarke's a disgruntled employee who was demoted, and rightfully so. If he was such a fantastic terrorist czar, why didn't he clean up al Qaeda during the eight years he served under Clinton? He's an opportunistic trying to hype his new book. I smell something more than a best seller here."

Steve in Florida: "In the short term, it will be tough for the White House to overcome charges from a man with Clarke's background of service in both Republican and Democratic administrations." He served under four presidents. "In the long run, though, if the economy and the job situation turn around, short of George Bush sprouting horns and carrying a pitchfork, Republican loyalists will still support him."

Susan in Rochester says, "I can't be worried about Clarke, lying politicians, mud-slinging campaigns, cheating CEOs. I have to worry about putting Martha in jail and gay marriages. Can anyone spell smoke screen?"

HEMMER: Good e-mails today.

CAFFERTY: Did you like those?

HEMMER: Dr. Rice earlier today. CAFFERTY: Here, take these home with you.

HEMMER: Thank you.

CAFFERTY: Put them in your little scrapbook.

HEMMER: Richard Clarke's with us tomorrow. We'll get his perspective yet again. I don't know if you saw the "60 Minutes" story last night, though. Pretty gripping television.

CAFFERTY: You suppose he's going to sell a few books?

HEMMER: I would say.

O'BRIEN: More than a few is what I bet on.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

HEMMER: Hey, we had a busy Monday. Did we not?

O'BRIEN: We did.

HEMMER: A whole lot to talk about. I hope you're back with us again tomorrow on a Tuesday.

For Jack and Soledad and me, we're out of here.





With Condoleezza Rice>