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CNN Live At Daybreak

Israeli Troops Nab Would-Be Palestinian Bomber, 14; Clarke Grabs Center Stage at 9/11 Hearings

Aired March 25, 2004 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Welcome to the second half-hour of DAYBREAK. It's Thursday, March 25. From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you for joining us this morning.
In the spotlight, Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism chief at the White House. He tells CNN's Larry King, if National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice had done her job, 9/11 might have been stopped.

The woman who says Kobe Bryant raped her returns to a closed Colorado courtroom today to answer questions about her sexual past. The judge will decide if her testimony is relevant for trial.

Potential grand jurors who may charges against pop star Michael Jackson begin reporting to a court in Santa Barbara County today.

And as Athens, Greece, gets ready for the Olympics, a milestone: the Olympic Torch is being lit today. It will be carried across five continents before returning to the Olympic Stadium in Athens.

We update our top stories every 15 minutes. The next update comes your way at 5:45 Eastern.

A dramatic confrontation in the West Bank. Israeli soldiers and a 14-year-old Palestinian boy, wearing a vest packed with explosives. Some very tense moments, as the Israelis scrambled to disarm the boy.

Our correspondent Paula Hancocks live in Jerusalem.

This was emotional for both sides, wasn't it, Paula?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Carol. Yes.

The 14-year-old is still being questioned at the moment. The Israeli defense forces spokeswoman that I spoke to said they don't have a problem with the boy per se. It's who sent the boy. They're trying to find out exactly which organization sent him to carry out this suicide attack, and, in fact, if he was coerced or not. They say it's the groups behind these child would-be suicide bombers that they have the problem with.

Now, it's thought that this boy was paid 100 shekels - that's around 20 U.S. dollars - to carry out this suicide attack. That money would have been given to his mother. He was clearly very afraid, as you can see from these pictures - when he was asked to lift up his shirt, the soldiers saw the explosives. They pointed their guns at him.

He was terrified, but they persuaded him not to detonate the device. They then sent him some scissors with a robot so that they didn't have to approach the boy. He cut himself free of the explosives, struggling at one point to cut himself free, calling to the soldiers for help. Clearly, very distressed.

He then took the explosives vest off, showed the soldiers he didn't have any more explosives, then was taken away for questioning,

Now he was shown to reporters. We weren't allowed to ask any questions, though, apart from his age and his name. So, 14 years old, this boy, the latest would-be suicide bomber at the checkpoint in Nablus.

Now, it's the same checkpoint that just one week ago - there was an 11-year-old boy that was stopped at the Hawara checkpoint near Nablus. This boy had explosives on his cart. He was working as a porter at this checkpoint, carrying bags to and fro from each side of the checkpoint. He was unaware that he even had these explosives on him. He said he was paid 5 shekels - that's about $1 - to carry these bags across. Was unaware that one of them contained explosives - Carol.

COSTELLO: Such a tragic story. Paula Hancocks, live for us this morning.

This certainly isn't the first time a Palestinian teenager has been recruited to launch a suicide attack. You heard Paula just tell you that. But just the thought of it seems inconceivable to many people here.

Joining us live from Gaza to help us understand the mindset is Palestinian psychiatrist Dr. Iyad Sarraj.

Thank you for joining us this morning.

Who - who is hiring - who is hiring these children to do this?

IYAD SARRAJ, PALESTINIAN PSYCHIATRIST: I think that you have to look at this as a crime. It's a double of form of crime: a crime against the child itself, and the crime against the possible victims of this action - act.

And I know and I trust that the major Palestinian militant groups have repeatedly said that they don't want children to be involved. But it tells me that there's a chaos, there's a dysfunctional family, there is a disparate environment, through which people can be abused, including children.

And I don't know who's behind this. It can be al Qaeda. It can be somebody who has paid (ph) as a symbol of sovereignty (ph) in his own community. It could be Israeli agents. It could be Palestinian who are trying to clean up their names, pretending that they are heroes. It could be the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) factor, but I think it is a crime and it is punishable by the law. It should be investigated thoroughly. This is an area in which the Israeli authorities should work closely the Palestinian authority to find out who is behind this and put them to trial.

COSTELLO: Well, is that really possible for them to work together?

SARRAJ: Well, I hope so. At least in - and both are claiming to be about protecting life and security and peace in the area. This is an area in which they should protect the life of children because this is a crime. And I think Palestinian community is abhorred by this, and how the children are being abused in such a way to be used as...

COSTELLO: But...

SARRAJ: ...people carrying explosives and killing other people.

COSTELLO: But Dr. Sarraj, how are these terrorists groups convincing the parent - do the parents even know that their children might do this? And how they - how are they convincing these boys to carry out such attacks?

SARRAJ: Well, there are two things here.

One is, the major militant groups, including Hamas and Islamic Jihad, have said repeatedly that they don't want children to be involved. That is one thing.

The other thing is that other groups in the area can be abusing the system and the environment. And the environment today is an environment that glorifies martyrdom, glorifies the martyr as a symbol of power, in comparison to the father image that has been demolished by humiliation and impotence and helplessness. That the father is no more a symbol for the children to look up for.

And this is rare to abuse the character of these - some groups that are using these children in such a way - of course, using also money as incentive. And using perhaps the imagination that when you die, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and you die for your family and you die for God, that you would be met with virgins waiting for you in the sky or whatever.

COSTELLO: But in this most recent case, this boy didn't want to die. He said that. He was frightened. He didn't want the bombs to go off. So how does that happen?

SARRAJ: Of course, children at this age - children of this - identify you with models of heroism and patriotism, whatever. But they don't have that concept of danger, and they don't have to concept of this as others do.

But when the moment comes of facing danger and facing this, then, of course, it is a different story. It is completely different from somebody who is over the age of 20, who is committed ideologically, who is committed for the sake of liberation or resistance, who is determined to do it because he's convinced.

For the child, it's a different story, and can change from one day to the other, from one hour to the other. The minute the child is facing real danger in his life, it's a different story.

COSTELLO: All right. Iyad Sarraj, thank you so much for joining us from Gaza this morning. We appreciate your insight.

The Israeli-Palestinian crisis goes before the U.N. again today. This time, the Security Council is expected to vote on a resolution condemning Israel for assassinating Hamas leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin. And that vote presents a problem for the United States.

Our senior international editor, David Clinch, is here to talk about Washington's dilemma.

DAVID CLINCH, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Yes, Carol. Good morning.

That was fascinating stuff, the human face of what we're talking about here, terrorism and the whole Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

COSTELLO: You know - may I interrupt for just...

CLINCH: Sure.

COSTELLO: ...a second, because I did not ask him the question that I really wanted to know. What will happen to these boys when they're sent back home?

CLINCH: In - well, that's a good question. In most cases, nothing happens to them. They're protected by the fame that they've achieved, if you want to put it that way. There's so much emphasis on who they are, people know who they are. Nobody will do any harm to them.

That's been the previous experience. But certainly a very interesting question and we intend to follow up on that question today, from both the Palestinian and the Israeli side.

And as you were saying, on the sort of the other side, the bigger political sure, this question of this resolution that 's up at the U.N., a resolution that calls for a condemnation of Israel's assassination of Sheik Yassin. The United States making it clear that it would veto that resolution in its present form because it does not make clear in its present form that Hamas, from the U.S. and the Israeli point of view, of course, is a terrorist organization.

So talking about the assassination of a Hamas leader without referencing the fact that Hamas is on the U.S. and other people's lists of terrorists groups is not a resolution the U.S. can support. Now, of course, that resolution might change in its form at some point. But it's pretty clear that the U.S. will veto it at the Security Council level. There's a lot of momentum behind this resolution though, and it's quite possible that it will get enough votes to ten go on to a wider vote at the U.N., which would undoubtedly pass. Of course, that wouldn't be a binding vote in any way if it's not passed the unanimous way.

COSTELLO: Well, if it does pass, where does that leave Israel?

CLINCH: Well, Israel, of course, from its point of view, says that the U.N. is missing the point. What the U.N. should be doing, according to the Israeli foreign minister, who was there yesterday, is concentrating on terrorism and saying there should be a resolution condemning terrorism, and that that's the first thing that should be dealt with before getting into condemnations of what the Israelis see as self-defense in the face of terrorism.

So both sides of the argument there at the U.N. This will be the one we'll see first. Israel trying to get support from the U.S. and others to have a big summit on the idea of terrorism at the U.N., and a condemnation - a global condemnation of terrorism.

COSTELLO: So we'll await more fascinating developments later today. David Clinch, many thanks to you.

The star witness at the 9/11 Commission hearings says that despite his warnings, the Bush administration did not consider al Qaeda a major threat. Former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke testified that the week before 9/11, he wrote a memo criticizing agencies for not doing enough against terrorism. And, on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE," Clarke responded again to the White House campaign to discredit him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPP)

RICHARD CLARKE, FMR. COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISER: It seems very ironic to me that what the White House is sort of saying is, They don't understand why I, as an assistant - as a special assistant to the president of the United States - didn't criticize the president to the press. If I had criticized the president to the press as a special assistant, I would have been fired within an hour. They know that.

And this is part of their whole attempt to get Larry King to ask Dick Clarke this kind of question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Whether following the testimony on TV or inside the Senate Hearing Room, the last two days have been trying for the families of the 9/11 victims.

CNN's Kelly Wallace has their side of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You could see the heaviness in the front rows, on the faces of families who lost loved ones. And you could hear it.

BOB KERREY (D), 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Osama bin Laden held a press conference to declare open war on the United States in February 1998.

WALLACE: Two days of troubling questions. Could September 11 been prevented? Could the Clinton and Bush administrations done more?

SAMUEL BERGER, FMR. NATL SECURITY ADVISER: We struck with the intent of killing bin Laden and/or his operatives. I deeply regret that we did not succeed.

WALLACE: Henry and Elaine Hughes of Smithtown, Long Island, listen and take notes. Their son Chris worked on the 89th floor of the South Tower.

HENRY HUGHES, SON KILLED ON 9/11: I'd like to see somebody come forward and just say once, You know what? Maybe we could have did a better job.

WALLACE: And that happened inside the hearing room Wednesday.

CLARKE: Your government failed you. Those entrusted with protecting you failed you, and I failed you.

WALLACE: Welcome words even two-and-a-half years later.

ELAINE HUGHES, SON KILLED ON 9/11: At least some of the - some of the witnesses actually said they were sorry and apologized that the job didn't get done.

WALLACE: The Hugheses stayed for almost every word, but other families as a public protest when Deputy Secretary of State appeared in place of Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser, who chose not to testify.

KRISTIN KREITSEIBER, HUSBAND KILLED ON 9/11: Three thousand lost lives warranted her coming before the American people to restore confidence and to set the record straight.

WALLACE: Politics did not stay away from the hearing room. Democratic members of the commission appeared to be tougher on the Bush team and Republicans...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got a real credibility problem.

WALLACE: ...tougher on the Bush administration's critics, like former terrorism adviser Richard Clarke.

As the Hugheses headed home, this hope: that politics during a presidential election year doesn't get in the way of finding some answers.

E. HUGHES: I mean, what I'm hearing now is that - God forbid something like this happens again. It's - they're still not ready. They're not ready to prevent anything. And that's what scares me.

WALLACE (on camera): The commission now has just four months to put together a report with recommendations on how to prevent another September 11. Kelly Wallace, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And still to come on DAYBREAK...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GROUP: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic..

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: For which it stands - oh, and the next two works of the Pledge of Allegiance. Do they violate the Constitution? The Supreme Court takes up the case

Plus, what began as an expedition to explore the caves has developed into a diplomatic rift. More on this complicated rescue operation just ahead.

This is DAYBREAK for a Thursday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: 5:47 Eastern Time. Time to take a quick look at the top stories now.

National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice calls former anti- terrorism chief Richard Clarke's allegations "scurrilous." Clarke says if Rice had done her job, there might not have been a 9/11.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair is in Libya for talks with Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi.

And entertainer Aretha Franklin is home from the hospital celebrating her 62nd birthday today. She had been hospitalized for a blood disorder.

We update our top stories every 15 minutes. The next update comes your way at the top of the hour, 6:00 Eastern.

In eastern Mexico, a rescue effort and an international flap. Five British military personnel and their civilian guide are trapped in a cave. And the Mexican president now wants to know why they're even in his country.

CNN's Harris Whitbeck is covering the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN MEXICO CITY BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Three British explorers prepare to enter a cave in eastern Mexico where six of their team members have been trapped for over a week.

They are accompanied by members of the Mexican military as they check on their teammates' condition. But they say they will wait until British Navy divers arrive on the site to attempt to a rescue through a deep pool of water that formed in the cave, blocking the exit.

Their team leader met with local authorities in the nearby town of Cuetzalan to coordinate the rescue. He says the trapped explorers can afford to wait a while longer.

STEPHEN, TEAM LEADER: They're in great health, good spirits.

WHITBECK: They left plenty of supplies along their route.

(on camera): Explorers have been coming to this isolated mountain range in eastern Mexico for decades. The current expedition wants to survey the 100 square kilometers of underground caves here. They want to prove it's one of the largest underground cave systems in the world.

(voice-over): But before they do that, they might have to answer a few questions. The team is mostly made up of members of the British military.

Mexican President Vicente Fox wants to know exactly what they were up to, since they entered Mexico on a simple tourist video.

PRES. VICENTE FOX, MEXICO (through translator): I have instructed the foreign relations minister to file a formal protest immediately to request a clarification from the British government. What were they doing here?

WHITBECK: The team says it's just carrying on with an aged-old tradition.

STEPHEN: It's exploration, original exploration. And at the end of the day, it's quite good to find, you know, passage and places in the cave where nobody's been before. And when you actually survey something and you've found something where no human foot has ever stood before, it's actually quite nice as well in the spirit of exploration to be able to give it a name.

Harris Whitbeck, CNN, Cuetzalan, Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: We will take a peek at what's making front pages - the front-page news across the country.

Also....

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GROUP: One nation, under God, indivisible...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Purge the prayer or support the pledge? How a controversial case could banish God from the classroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Chad, before we get to the front pages, take a look at this: This is Athens, Greece. They're lighting the Olympic Torch. Isn't that beautiful? They were worried about the weather because, as you saw, they used the sun to do that.

CHAD MYERS, METEOROLOGIST: Wow.

COSTELLO: And it was overcast earlier in the day and they thought they would have to put it off. But that is the priestess along with her other high priestesses lighting the Torch.

MYERS: I just checked the temperature there. It's 64.

Now I heard that you were nominated to carry the torch. How's that going?

COSTELLO: Well, I have been nominated and I believe one of our wonderful DAYBREAK viewers nominated me, for which I am forever grateful,

MYERS: Wow.

COSTELLO: Even if it doesn't happen, I don't care. Just to be nominated was fabulous.

MYERS: Cool.

COSTELLO: But, of course, it will be run in Greece...

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: ....and then part of it will be run through the United States, through Atlanta. And hopefully, I'll be running part of that...

MYERS: That'd be great.

COSTELLO: ...run with the Torch.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: I'm very excited.

OK, let's get to the front pages now.

MYERS: I'm ready.

COSTELLO: We were just interested in showing people how newspapers around the country were covering the 9/11 Commission hearings. And this is from Newsday in Long Island, and you can see a victim on front - a family member of a victim holding the picture of his son on the front page. And "The U.S. Missed Its Chance." Let's go to the Times Picayune out of New Orleans, Louisiana. You can see Osama bin Laden is on the front page of their newspapers along with a picture of President Bush and President Clinton.

Moving on the Seattle Post Intelligencer. This is my favorite one, just because I like the expressions on all the - on all the people's faces here. You can See Donald Rumsfeld and Madeline Albright, Colin Powell, William Cohen on the front page.

And to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel out of Fort Lauderdale. You can see...

MYERS: Same - same pictures there.

COSTELLO: Same pictures, but...

MYERS: Smaller type.

COSTELLO: Right, but you can see the woman crying there.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: She lost someone in the 9/11 attack.

So, somber news. Everybody covering it in a slightly different way.

MYERS: I wondered, even to this day, if we did stop any other attacks that we don't even know about, you know? If you don't know that you don't know, you don't even know that they may have happened. We may have stopped some things and - or how many planes they were planning on flying that day.

COSTELLO: They didn't stop anything on that particular day.

MYERS: I know.

COSTELLO: But continue to listen to the 9/11 Commission hearings. They're fascinating. Lots of information coming out.

MYERS: They're coming out today again.

COSTELLO: Definitely so.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: The battle over the Pledge of Allegiance is now in the hands of the Supreme Court. Justices will decide if the phrase "under God" is unconstitutional.

In the meantime, in the classrooms, here's how kids are tacking the pledge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GROUP: I pledge allegiance to the flag of United States of America.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I pledge allegiance to the flag - and I pledge to the flag of the United States of America.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...of the United States of America - oh!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...to the flag of the United States of America. I don't know it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God...

UUNIDENTIFIED MALE: And to the republic of which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One nation, under God, and indivisible....

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With liberty and justice for all.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired March 25, 2004 - 05:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Welcome to the second half-hour of DAYBREAK. It's Thursday, March 25. From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you for joining us this morning.
In the spotlight, Richard Clarke, former counterterrorism chief at the White House. He tells CNN's Larry King, if National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice had done her job, 9/11 might have been stopped.

The woman who says Kobe Bryant raped her returns to a closed Colorado courtroom today to answer questions about her sexual past. The judge will decide if her testimony is relevant for trial.

Potential grand jurors who may charges against pop star Michael Jackson begin reporting to a court in Santa Barbara County today.

And as Athens, Greece, gets ready for the Olympics, a milestone: the Olympic Torch is being lit today. It will be carried across five continents before returning to the Olympic Stadium in Athens.

We update our top stories every 15 minutes. The next update comes your way at 5:45 Eastern.

A dramatic confrontation in the West Bank. Israeli soldiers and a 14-year-old Palestinian boy, wearing a vest packed with explosives. Some very tense moments, as the Israelis scrambled to disarm the boy.

Our correspondent Paula Hancocks live in Jerusalem.

This was emotional for both sides, wasn't it, Paula?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Carol. Yes.

The 14-year-old is still being questioned at the moment. The Israeli defense forces spokeswoman that I spoke to said they don't have a problem with the boy per se. It's who sent the boy. They're trying to find out exactly which organization sent him to carry out this suicide attack, and, in fact, if he was coerced or not. They say it's the groups behind these child would-be suicide bombers that they have the problem with.

Now, it's thought that this boy was paid 100 shekels - that's around 20 U.S. dollars - to carry out this suicide attack. That money would have been given to his mother. He was clearly very afraid, as you can see from these pictures - when he was asked to lift up his shirt, the soldiers saw the explosives. They pointed their guns at him.

He was terrified, but they persuaded him not to detonate the device. They then sent him some scissors with a robot so that they didn't have to approach the boy. He cut himself free of the explosives, struggling at one point to cut himself free, calling to the soldiers for help. Clearly, very distressed.

He then took the explosives vest off, showed the soldiers he didn't have any more explosives, then was taken away for questioning,

Now he was shown to reporters. We weren't allowed to ask any questions, though, apart from his age and his name. So, 14 years old, this boy, the latest would-be suicide bomber at the checkpoint in Nablus.

Now, it's the same checkpoint that just one week ago - there was an 11-year-old boy that was stopped at the Hawara checkpoint near Nablus. This boy had explosives on his cart. He was working as a porter at this checkpoint, carrying bags to and fro from each side of the checkpoint. He was unaware that he even had these explosives on him. He said he was paid 5 shekels - that's about $1 - to carry these bags across. Was unaware that one of them contained explosives - Carol.

COSTELLO: Such a tragic story. Paula Hancocks, live for us this morning.

This certainly isn't the first time a Palestinian teenager has been recruited to launch a suicide attack. You heard Paula just tell you that. But just the thought of it seems inconceivable to many people here.

Joining us live from Gaza to help us understand the mindset is Palestinian psychiatrist Dr. Iyad Sarraj.

Thank you for joining us this morning.

Who - who is hiring - who is hiring these children to do this?

IYAD SARRAJ, PALESTINIAN PSYCHIATRIST: I think that you have to look at this as a crime. It's a double of form of crime: a crime against the child itself, and the crime against the possible victims of this action - act.

And I know and I trust that the major Palestinian militant groups have repeatedly said that they don't want children to be involved. But it tells me that there's a chaos, there's a dysfunctional family, there is a disparate environment, through which people can be abused, including children.

And I don't know who's behind this. It can be al Qaeda. It can be somebody who has paid (ph) as a symbol of sovereignty (ph) in his own community. It could be Israeli agents. It could be Palestinian who are trying to clean up their names, pretending that they are heroes. It could be the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) factor, but I think it is a crime and it is punishable by the law. It should be investigated thoroughly. This is an area in which the Israeli authorities should work closely the Palestinian authority to find out who is behind this and put them to trial.

COSTELLO: Well, is that really possible for them to work together?

SARRAJ: Well, I hope so. At least in - and both are claiming to be about protecting life and security and peace in the area. This is an area in which they should protect the life of children because this is a crime. And I think Palestinian community is abhorred by this, and how the children are being abused in such a way to be used as...

COSTELLO: But...

SARRAJ: ...people carrying explosives and killing other people.

COSTELLO: But Dr. Sarraj, how are these terrorists groups convincing the parent - do the parents even know that their children might do this? And how they - how are they convincing these boys to carry out such attacks?

SARRAJ: Well, there are two things here.

One is, the major militant groups, including Hamas and Islamic Jihad, have said repeatedly that they don't want children to be involved. That is one thing.

The other thing is that other groups in the area can be abusing the system and the environment. And the environment today is an environment that glorifies martyrdom, glorifies the martyr as a symbol of power, in comparison to the father image that has been demolished by humiliation and impotence and helplessness. That the father is no more a symbol for the children to look up for.

And this is rare to abuse the character of these - some groups that are using these children in such a way - of course, using also money as incentive. And using perhaps the imagination that when you die, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and you die for your family and you die for God, that you would be met with virgins waiting for you in the sky or whatever.

COSTELLO: But in this most recent case, this boy didn't want to die. He said that. He was frightened. He didn't want the bombs to go off. So how does that happen?

SARRAJ: Of course, children at this age - children of this - identify you with models of heroism and patriotism, whatever. But they don't have that concept of danger, and they don't have to concept of this as others do.

But when the moment comes of facing danger and facing this, then, of course, it is a different story. It is completely different from somebody who is over the age of 20, who is committed ideologically, who is committed for the sake of liberation or resistance, who is determined to do it because he's convinced.

For the child, it's a different story, and can change from one day to the other, from one hour to the other. The minute the child is facing real danger in his life, it's a different story.

COSTELLO: All right. Iyad Sarraj, thank you so much for joining us from Gaza this morning. We appreciate your insight.

The Israeli-Palestinian crisis goes before the U.N. again today. This time, the Security Council is expected to vote on a resolution condemning Israel for assassinating Hamas leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin. And that vote presents a problem for the United States.

Our senior international editor, David Clinch, is here to talk about Washington's dilemma.

DAVID CLINCH, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Yes, Carol. Good morning.

That was fascinating stuff, the human face of what we're talking about here, terrorism and the whole Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

COSTELLO: You know - may I interrupt for just...

CLINCH: Sure.

COSTELLO: ...a second, because I did not ask him the question that I really wanted to know. What will happen to these boys when they're sent back home?

CLINCH: In - well, that's a good question. In most cases, nothing happens to them. They're protected by the fame that they've achieved, if you want to put it that way. There's so much emphasis on who they are, people know who they are. Nobody will do any harm to them.

That's been the previous experience. But certainly a very interesting question and we intend to follow up on that question today, from both the Palestinian and the Israeli side.

And as you were saying, on the sort of the other side, the bigger political sure, this question of this resolution that 's up at the U.N., a resolution that calls for a condemnation of Israel's assassination of Sheik Yassin. The United States making it clear that it would veto that resolution in its present form because it does not make clear in its present form that Hamas, from the U.S. and the Israeli point of view, of course, is a terrorist organization.

So talking about the assassination of a Hamas leader without referencing the fact that Hamas is on the U.S. and other people's lists of terrorists groups is not a resolution the U.S. can support. Now, of course, that resolution might change in its form at some point. But it's pretty clear that the U.S. will veto it at the Security Council level. There's a lot of momentum behind this resolution though, and it's quite possible that it will get enough votes to ten go on to a wider vote at the U.N., which would undoubtedly pass. Of course, that wouldn't be a binding vote in any way if it's not passed the unanimous way.

COSTELLO: Well, if it does pass, where does that leave Israel?

CLINCH: Well, Israel, of course, from its point of view, says that the U.N. is missing the point. What the U.N. should be doing, according to the Israeli foreign minister, who was there yesterday, is concentrating on terrorism and saying there should be a resolution condemning terrorism, and that that's the first thing that should be dealt with before getting into condemnations of what the Israelis see as self-defense in the face of terrorism.

So both sides of the argument there at the U.N. This will be the one we'll see first. Israel trying to get support from the U.S. and others to have a big summit on the idea of terrorism at the U.N., and a condemnation - a global condemnation of terrorism.

COSTELLO: So we'll await more fascinating developments later today. David Clinch, many thanks to you.

The star witness at the 9/11 Commission hearings says that despite his warnings, the Bush administration did not consider al Qaeda a major threat. Former counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke testified that the week before 9/11, he wrote a memo criticizing agencies for not doing enough against terrorism. And, on CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE," Clarke responded again to the White House campaign to discredit him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPP)

RICHARD CLARKE, FMR. COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISER: It seems very ironic to me that what the White House is sort of saying is, They don't understand why I, as an assistant - as a special assistant to the president of the United States - didn't criticize the president to the press. If I had criticized the president to the press as a special assistant, I would have been fired within an hour. They know that.

And this is part of their whole attempt to get Larry King to ask Dick Clarke this kind of question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Whether following the testimony on TV or inside the Senate Hearing Room, the last two days have been trying for the families of the 9/11 victims.

CNN's Kelly Wallace has their side of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You could see the heaviness in the front rows, on the faces of families who lost loved ones. And you could hear it.

BOB KERREY (D), 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: Osama bin Laden held a press conference to declare open war on the United States in February 1998.

WALLACE: Two days of troubling questions. Could September 11 been prevented? Could the Clinton and Bush administrations done more?

SAMUEL BERGER, FMR. NATL SECURITY ADVISER: We struck with the intent of killing bin Laden and/or his operatives. I deeply regret that we did not succeed.

WALLACE: Henry and Elaine Hughes of Smithtown, Long Island, listen and take notes. Their son Chris worked on the 89th floor of the South Tower.

HENRY HUGHES, SON KILLED ON 9/11: I'd like to see somebody come forward and just say once, You know what? Maybe we could have did a better job.

WALLACE: And that happened inside the hearing room Wednesday.

CLARKE: Your government failed you. Those entrusted with protecting you failed you, and I failed you.

WALLACE: Welcome words even two-and-a-half years later.

ELAINE HUGHES, SON KILLED ON 9/11: At least some of the - some of the witnesses actually said they were sorry and apologized that the job didn't get done.

WALLACE: The Hugheses stayed for almost every word, but other families as a public protest when Deputy Secretary of State appeared in place of Condoleezza Rice, the president's national security adviser, who chose not to testify.

KRISTIN KREITSEIBER, HUSBAND KILLED ON 9/11: Three thousand lost lives warranted her coming before the American people to restore confidence and to set the record straight.

WALLACE: Politics did not stay away from the hearing room. Democratic members of the commission appeared to be tougher on the Bush team and Republicans...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've got a real credibility problem.

WALLACE: ...tougher on the Bush administration's critics, like former terrorism adviser Richard Clarke.

As the Hugheses headed home, this hope: that politics during a presidential election year doesn't get in the way of finding some answers.

E. HUGHES: I mean, what I'm hearing now is that - God forbid something like this happens again. It's - they're still not ready. They're not ready to prevent anything. And that's what scares me.

WALLACE (on camera): The commission now has just four months to put together a report with recommendations on how to prevent another September 11. Kelly Wallace, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And still to come on DAYBREAK...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GROUP: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic..

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: For which it stands - oh, and the next two works of the Pledge of Allegiance. Do they violate the Constitution? The Supreme Court takes up the case

Plus, what began as an expedition to explore the caves has developed into a diplomatic rift. More on this complicated rescue operation just ahead.

This is DAYBREAK for a Thursday morning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: 5:47 Eastern Time. Time to take a quick look at the top stories now.

National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice calls former anti- terrorism chief Richard Clarke's allegations "scurrilous." Clarke says if Rice had done her job, there might not have been a 9/11.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair is in Libya for talks with Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi.

And entertainer Aretha Franklin is home from the hospital celebrating her 62nd birthday today. She had been hospitalized for a blood disorder.

We update our top stories every 15 minutes. The next update comes your way at the top of the hour, 6:00 Eastern.

In eastern Mexico, a rescue effort and an international flap. Five British military personnel and their civilian guide are trapped in a cave. And the Mexican president now wants to know why they're even in his country.

CNN's Harris Whitbeck is covering the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN MEXICO CITY BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Three British explorers prepare to enter a cave in eastern Mexico where six of their team members have been trapped for over a week.

They are accompanied by members of the Mexican military as they check on their teammates' condition. But they say they will wait until British Navy divers arrive on the site to attempt to a rescue through a deep pool of water that formed in the cave, blocking the exit.

Their team leader met with local authorities in the nearby town of Cuetzalan to coordinate the rescue. He says the trapped explorers can afford to wait a while longer.

STEPHEN, TEAM LEADER: They're in great health, good spirits.

WHITBECK: They left plenty of supplies along their route.

(on camera): Explorers have been coming to this isolated mountain range in eastern Mexico for decades. The current expedition wants to survey the 100 square kilometers of underground caves here. They want to prove it's one of the largest underground cave systems in the world.

(voice-over): But before they do that, they might have to answer a few questions. The team is mostly made up of members of the British military.

Mexican President Vicente Fox wants to know exactly what they were up to, since they entered Mexico on a simple tourist video.

PRES. VICENTE FOX, MEXICO (through translator): I have instructed the foreign relations minister to file a formal protest immediately to request a clarification from the British government. What were they doing here?

WHITBECK: The team says it's just carrying on with an aged-old tradition.

STEPHEN: It's exploration, original exploration. And at the end of the day, it's quite good to find, you know, passage and places in the cave where nobody's been before. And when you actually survey something and you've found something where no human foot has ever stood before, it's actually quite nice as well in the spirit of exploration to be able to give it a name.

Harris Whitbeck, CNN, Cuetzalan, Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: We will take a peek at what's making front pages - the front-page news across the country.

Also....

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GROUP: One nation, under God, indivisible...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Purge the prayer or support the pledge? How a controversial case could banish God from the classroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Chad, before we get to the front pages, take a look at this: This is Athens, Greece. They're lighting the Olympic Torch. Isn't that beautiful? They were worried about the weather because, as you saw, they used the sun to do that.

CHAD MYERS, METEOROLOGIST: Wow.

COSTELLO: And it was overcast earlier in the day and they thought they would have to put it off. But that is the priestess along with her other high priestesses lighting the Torch.

MYERS: I just checked the temperature there. It's 64.

Now I heard that you were nominated to carry the torch. How's that going?

COSTELLO: Well, I have been nominated and I believe one of our wonderful DAYBREAK viewers nominated me, for which I am forever grateful,

MYERS: Wow.

COSTELLO: Even if it doesn't happen, I don't care. Just to be nominated was fabulous.

MYERS: Cool.

COSTELLO: But, of course, it will be run in Greece...

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: ....and then part of it will be run through the United States, through Atlanta. And hopefully, I'll be running part of that...

MYERS: That'd be great.

COSTELLO: ...run with the Torch.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: I'm very excited.

OK, let's get to the front pages now.

MYERS: I'm ready.

COSTELLO: We were just interested in showing people how newspapers around the country were covering the 9/11 Commission hearings. And this is from Newsday in Long Island, and you can see a victim on front - a family member of a victim holding the picture of his son on the front page. And "The U.S. Missed Its Chance." Let's go to the Times Picayune out of New Orleans, Louisiana. You can see Osama bin Laden is on the front page of their newspapers along with a picture of President Bush and President Clinton.

Moving on the Seattle Post Intelligencer. This is my favorite one, just because I like the expressions on all the - on all the people's faces here. You can See Donald Rumsfeld and Madeline Albright, Colin Powell, William Cohen on the front page.

And to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel out of Fort Lauderdale. You can see...

MYERS: Same - same pictures there.

COSTELLO: Same pictures, but...

MYERS: Smaller type.

COSTELLO: Right, but you can see the woman crying there.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: She lost someone in the 9/11 attack.

So, somber news. Everybody covering it in a slightly different way.

MYERS: I wondered, even to this day, if we did stop any other attacks that we don't even know about, you know? If you don't know that you don't know, you don't even know that they may have happened. We may have stopped some things and - or how many planes they were planning on flying that day.

COSTELLO: They didn't stop anything on that particular day.

MYERS: I know.

COSTELLO: But continue to listen to the 9/11 Commission hearings. They're fascinating. Lots of information coming out.

MYERS: They're coming out today again.

COSTELLO: Definitely so.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: The battle over the Pledge of Allegiance is now in the hands of the Supreme Court. Justices will decide if the phrase "under God" is unconstitutional.

In the meantime, in the classrooms, here's how kids are tacking the pledge.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GROUP: I pledge allegiance to the flag of United States of America.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I pledge allegiance to the flag - and I pledge to the flag of the United States of America.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...of the United States of America - oh!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ...to the flag of the United States of America. I don't know it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God...

UUNIDENTIFIED MALE: And to the republic of which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One nation, under God, and indivisible....

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With liberty and justice for all.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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