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American Morning

Political Firestorm Between Former Richard Clarke, Bush Administration; Boy Bomber; 'Paging Dr. Gupta'

Aired March 25, 2004 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: From Washington today, I'm Bill Hemmer.
Good morning yet again. Soledad, how goes it back in New York City?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Bill, it goes very well. Although we'll say we miss you very much here. Hope you had a nice time at that party last night. Although I have to tell you, Jack's been getting some e-mails about some of the comments about weapons of mass destruction that the president made in jest last night. I'm curious to know how the audience took it?

HEMMER: I think the reception was pretty receptive for lack of a better phrase. I can understand what you're hearing. There was a little rumblings about whether or not it was sensitive enough to the reality that we all know two and a half years later, also with the situation in Iraq as well. But overall, I think it was a speech that was given a way where the president tried to show a sense of humor, and I think, for the most part, it was taken that way.

In a moment here, Soledad, reaction from a woman whose mother was killed on 9/11, talking about Richard Clarke's testimony to the commission that we all watched and witnessed yesterday, her reaction to that personal apology that he began with yesterday during her testimony. We'll get to that in just a few moments here -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Also just ahead this morning, we're going to tell you the story of a desperate rescue going on in the Atlantic Ocean for a whale. We'll update you on that in just a few minutes.

But first, our top stories this morning. The U.S. facing a tough situation at the United Nations. The U.N. Security Council has been debating a resolution that condemns Israel for killing Hamas leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Earlier this week that happened. A Security Council vote is expected as early as today.

The U.S. Army is expected to announce recommendations about preventing suicide among soldiers. This, after a new studies showed a higher than usual rate of suicides among soldiers during the invasion and occupation of Iraq. But officials say that mental health experts have concluded that there is no crisis. The study is expected to be released today.

In other news, police in Arizona have a big mystery on their hands, along with a whole lot of cash. A routine traffic stop uncovered more than a million dollars in cash hidden in a truck. Authorities in Arizona say the driver has refused to talk about where he got the money.

Happy birthday to or singer Aretha Franklin. The Queen of Soul was released from a Detroit hospital yesterday after being treated for a blood disorder caused by either a virus or an allergic reaction to antibiotics. Franklin says she plans to spend her 62th birthday just taking it easy. Probably a good idea.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Here in Washington, the political firestorm between the former White House counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke and the Bush administration showing no signs of burning out yet today. Natural security adviser Dr. Condoleezza Rice calls Clark's accusations scurrilous. Clark contends that the president did not pay attention to terrorism threats before 9/11. For his part, Clarke says Rice did not do her job before the attacks. He made these comments last night here on CNN. He is suggesting that if she had, the terrorism plot may have been uncovered.

Seemingly caught in all this tit for tat, the families of the victims from 9/11. Carie Lemack, who's mother, Judy Larock (ph) was killed in the World Trade Center back on 9/11. She helped create the group Families of September 11th. And Kerry is our guest this morning.

Nice to see you.

CARIE LEMACK, MOTHER KILLED ON SEPTEMBER 11TH: Good morning.

HEMMER: Good morning to you.

How was the last two days?

LEMACK: I think it's been very difficult for most of the family members, pretty frustrating quite honestly.

I think the most important thing for people to keep in mind is that safety is not a partisan issue. We've seen all this debate back and forth between the Democrats and Republicans about who was at fault. And for us, we don't want to make it partisan. We just want to make sure that whatever did happen, whatever the information they had before 9/11 that could have prevented it, gets out there, so we make sure it doesn't happen again.

HEMMER: So that's why you're saying the frustration comes in when you try to figure out what side is fighting for what and whom to believe?

LEMACK: Exactly. We heard a lot of different people say, well, we didn't have the intelligence at that time, we couldn't make the decision. It seems to me if they didn't have the right intelligence, they should have been changing the intelligence system. They should have been figuring a way to get the right information so they can protect American's lives.

HEMMER: I don't know if this is a fair question to you or not, but did you believe Richard Clarke yesterday? How was his credibility in your eyes.

LEMACK: Well, I think it's a fantastic that he had the courage to come forward and say what he believes to be true about what happened before September 11th. I've heard Dr. Rice say that she has evidence that what she said was wrong. I implore her to come forward and speak in front of the American public, to speak in front of the commission, under oath, in public, and let us know what that evidence is.

HEMMER: She has given several hours of testimony in private, has offered herself up to continue that testimony. Why is that not good enough for the families?

LEMACK: The American public deserves to see in public, under oath what she knew ahead of time, as in anyone. Anyone who knows information about the September 11th attacks should do this. Again, it's not a Republican versus Democrat issue; it is about safety. And if someone could tell us something, could tell the commission something, that could prevent more people from getting killed, well then, I think they should come forward.

HEMMER: Carie, I want you to listen to a part of Richard Clarke's testimony from yesterday, at the very beginning, in his opening statement before the commission. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD CLARKE, FMR. COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISER: Your government failed you. Those entrusted with protecting you failed you. And I failed you. We tried hard, but that doesn't matter, because we failed. And for that failure, I would ask, once all the facts are out, for your understanding and for your forgiveness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: What did that statement say to you yesterday?

LEMACK: Well, it's very emotional, I have to say. First and foremost, I think, understanding, he asked for understanding, we can't have that until everyone comes forward. So again, I say, if anyone does have information, I hope that they do come to the commission and publicly testify. In terms of forgiveness, that's tough, and I don't know how we're going to be able to react to that.

But I can say this, he's earned my respect and my gratitude for coming forward saying what's difficult, but saying what he believes is going to make America safer. And I hope that everyone else who has this information can do the same thing.

HEMMER: My best to you. Carie Lemack, our guest here in Washington.

LEMACK: Thanks so much.

HEMMER: Now back to you in New York, once again. Here's Soledad. O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks a lot.

Let's go overseas now. A teenage Palestinian boy was caught at a West Bank roadblock yesterday with a bomb strapped to his body. A TV camera recorded the scene as Israelis soldiers ordered the boy to take off his clothes, revealing an explosive vest. The boy, who says he's 14, called out that he did not want to die. A robot delivered a pair of scissors to help the teenager cut the bomb loose.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. SHARON FEINGOLD, IDF SPOKESWOMAN: He was frightened by the sharp and quickly reaction of the soldiers who pointed the guns and stopped him, and he raised his hands. At that time we grabbed him and persuaded him to assist us to dismantle him of the suicide vest that he was wearing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Just last week, at the same checkpoint, an 11-year-old Palestinian boy was discovered to have a bomb on a push cart. The use of children as possibly unwilling or unwitting suicide bombers is a disturbing issue. Palestinian psychiatrist Dr. Iyad Sarraj joins us from Gotha this morning.

Nice to see you, doctor. Thanks so much for being with us.

Let's begin with what the little boy -- or the young boy said. I mean, clearly, this is a terrible predicament for a 14-year-old boy. What does the circumstances tell you? What do you read into what's happened here?

DR. IYAD SARRAJ, PALESTINIAN PSYCHIATRIST: I think that it is an expression of the chaos of the Palestinian society today, the despair which is very deep now. It is an expression also of the dysfunction of the family, and the dysfunction of the political leadership in the Palestinian area today.

The child of this age, being abused that way, is an absolute crime that needs to be punished by the law. I think that tells you that this is not just one case or two. It could be repeated. And this is why we have to act at all the levels of the Palestinian society today and, of course, with cooperation with the Israelis authorities to prevent it, because we don't know who's behind it. I know for sure that Hamas and Islamic Jihad have declared that they will never use children. So who is using these children and the Aqsa Brigade that is claiming responsibility for it are everywhere. So we don't know who is the leadership of this Asqa Bridgade.

I don't think that -- I'm suspicious of that al Qaeda could be using this, or even the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So we need to cooperate between the Palestinian authorities and the Israeli authorities to know exactly who is behind this crime, and it should be really pursued in the court.

O'BRIEN: The 14-year-old boy was not allowed to speak with the cameramen who happened to be at this checkpoint at the same time. What do you think should happen to this boy?

SARRAJ: I think this boy should be counseled, should be protected from the public and should be really given all the help he deserves, now to be helped. This boy is a expression of despair, of the way children have been abused, either to be used to -- as slave workers in the streets, or used as collaborators with the Israeli intelligence services, or now are being accused to carry bombs.

O'BRIEN: There are obviously...

SARRAJ: This is a double crime. At one hand, the child itself would have been a victim, and the other victims that potentially would have been hurt by this explosion.

O'BRIEN: There are obviously not a lot of details about this yet, but I'm curious to know how common do you think this is or are these two circumstances that we spoke about, are those fairly unusual?

SARRAJ: Well, as far as I know and from all the reaction that I have from the Palestinian communities, everybody is in full and strong condemnation of this. And almost people are disbelieving that this could happen.

But, of course, this is a society that has been going through turmoil, and difficulties and trauma. It is expected that some families of some children, or some criminals will be using our children in that way. Children are abused anywhere in the world, even in peaceful times, let alone a time of war, and trauma, and violence, and bombing and destruction and killing that is going every day.

O'BRIEN: Palestinian Psychiatrist, Dr. Iyad Sarraj joining us this morning. Thanks for your time, doctor. We certainly appreciate it -- Bill.

HEMMER: About 18 minutes now before the hour. Back here in Washington in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING, more and more U.S. jobs apparently headed overseas. How is that hurting the U.S. software industry? We'll find out just how bad in a moment, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, Oxycontin. It is one of the most powerful and addictive painkillers, but will new generic versions lead to an explosion of abuse? Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to join us to look at that, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The Food and Drug Administration has signed off on the first generic versions of the prescription painkiller Oxycontin. What does it mean for patient whose take the highly addictive medication?

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from the CNN Center with more details on this. Hey, Sanjay, good morning.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. O'BRIEN: Well, it may be a while before these generics actually hit the market. Purdue Pharma, the makers of Oxycontin, already hinting that litigation to prevent that from happening. Listen, Oxycontin has become a well-known drug recently. It is a very powerful painkiller, a potentially abused painkiller that got some headlines because of Rush Limbaugh and its association recently.

Called the granddaddy of all pain medication. This is a pain medication that's actually been around for some time. Used mainly for moderate to severe pain in patient whose have chronic pain, meaning long-term pain. It's not for short-term pain, such as patients with headaches occasionally.

The big thing about this drug, why it got popular, was that it allows for normal function, meaning, if used properly, it does not cause people to be drowsy. They can operate cars, carry on their normal functions regularly. It's sort of a time-release form, which means it works over 12 hours, giving people chronic pain relief. So a very popular drug for this reason. Doctors very, very excited about this drug, and the possibility of generics as well. The concerns about this drug, though, are potential addictions. It's potentially addictive as morphine. What they also concern about is that some abusers may get a euphoric high. We're going to take about that. If you actually crunch up the pills sometimes patient may get a euphoric high. It can be dangerous in situations. It can depress the blood pressure. It can depress respiration. That can cause problems.

It's a very expensive pill the way it stands right now, Soledad. This is why people get excited about generics. It cost about $100 for an 80 milligram pill right now. Generics possibly driving those costs down. Again, Purdue Pharma, the makers of Oxycontin say not so fast. We've got some patent issues here. The FDA has approved just this week two generic forms. We're going have to wait and see if those actually hit the market anytime soon -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Sanjay, two questions for you then, what are they doing to try to stem the abuse of the generic form of Oxycontin. What are they doing to try to make sure that people don't abuse it now?

GUPTA: The concerns about abuse have been something that a lot of people have been targeting. Again, let's just talk about the abuse for a second. I want to make a point that this drug can be a very good drug for people who have chronic pain. The abusers typically tend to chew this drug up, giving themselves that time-released form of it. They give to themselves all at once. This has been the concern for quite some time. The White House actually releasing a plan to try and stem the abuse, several things, states to track patient use, spot doctor shopping, so patients who go from doctor to doctor to try an get the pills, and shutting down pill mills. Those are just doctor offices or pharmacy companies that just basically produce these pill for abuse.

Now the FDA is bound to try and release these generic forms, but the companies that are making the generic forms are also going to have to abide by these regulations, warning labels that hey are highly addictive, warning specifically about these crushing dangers, education for both patients and doctors, and the surveillance and intervention for misuse.

Also the media talking about this so much really has alerted -- I talked to a lot of doctors around the country, saying that the media attention on this has probably provided some benefit in terms of stemming the abuse, people recognizing how potentially abused this drug can be -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Quick question for you. Just say it's 100 bucks cheaper. So wouldn't that necessarily increase the risk of people busing it, if it's so much cheaper?

GUPTA: Well, it's 100 bucks for an 80 milligram pill, and the generic forms will probably be cheaper than that. That is a concern. Exactly what you say is a concern. You're going to flood the markets. You're going to have more of a supply of these medications, or the generic sort of medication. So the concern about supply and demand goes up. But the doctors and the pharmacy experts we speak to say that this probably will not increase the abuse of this particular medication. If people wanted to abuse it, they would be abusing it already anyway. Hopefully, this will just serve to drive down costs -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Sanjay Gupta for us this morning. Sanjay, thanks -- Bill.

HEMMER: Here in Washington, we still do not know which way turn this election race is going to take this year, but it may hinge on a few items like the economy. The latest employment numbers are out. Moments ago, what they mean in a moment, when we continue after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: And welcome back, everybody.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: What's that old song, stuck in the middle with you?

O'BRIEN: Who's complaining, right?

CAFFERTY: Yes, no, I like it.

New numbers on the economy and jobs. Christine Romans in for Andy Serwer. She's Minding Your Business. Any good news? The market could use some.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Fourth quarter growth, 4.1 percent, exactly what we thought it was going to be, 4.1 exactly half of what it was in the third quarter. Not too bad. But half of the gangbuster pack in Q3. Jobless claims, Jack, 339,000 people lined up for unemployment the last time around for the first time unemployment rate. But the four-week average, the longer way to measure it, the lowest since the beginning of 2001. So improvement there, but this is the way you have to look at it. The companies aren't laying people off as much, but they're not hiring anybody either. So that's the way those...

CAFFERTY: We get a jobs report next week?

ROMANS: That's so important.

CAFFERTY: I mean, the world is like this, waiting for these jobs to turn up.

ROMANS: Have been for months. And all the economists have been saying, it's going to be 200,000 300,000 and have been wrong. The economists have been so wrong on this.

CAFFERTY: Yes, remember that phrase Clinton used, "it's the economy Stupid?" Well, it still is, apparently, according to a survey.

ROMANS: Absolutely. Unemployment, 25 percent of the corporate economists, these are the economists who work for companies, are concerned about unemployment. That's their top concern. Budget deficit is the second. Terrorism, personal and corporate debt and inflation.

Jack, this is what I love about this survey. These are company economists. Companies are the ones who are laying people off and not hiring, and using productivity so they don't have to hire and are moving jobs overseas, and their top concern is unemployment. You figure it out.

CAFFERTY: I can't. That's Lou Dobbs' job. We do the very elementary stuff here. Lou Dobbs has the complicated issues at night.

Speaking of outsourcing, the jobs going to India, particularly in the computer industry.

ROMANS: The studies showing this isn't going away. Trying to figure out just how many jobs have left. One study showing from the Economic Policy Institute, 150,000 jobs left just from 2000 to 2002. Imagine how many more have left since then. Our producer Tod Monan (ph) says that the size of Macon, Georgia. Just keep that in perspective.

Another study yesterday said, listen, outsourcing is good. If companies didn't outsource, we'd loss more jobs here. So this is not going away.

CAFFERTY: All right, got to go to the file. Thanks, Christine.

Cafferty File, animal right's activist group PETA, out with its annual worst dressed list of celebrities who wear fur. Number seven, Lara Flynn Boyle. They say, quote, "unlike the entire forest of Foxes it takes to cover up Starr Jones, it only takes a fox (AUDIO GAP)

Pete says, quote, "Near far, wherever you, your furs should be mothballed with your fading star."

And the top award went to Diana Ross. PETA says, quote, "opted not to protest Diana's furry turn on the catwalk, thinking she wouldn't be able to walk a straight line anyway."

O'BRIEN: Wow, a little catty from PETA.

CAFFERTY: A little tough, nasty.

O'BRIEN: Excercise guru Richard Simmons got into a bit of a dust-up over one of his workout videos. Simmons, of "Sweating to the Oldies" fame, cited for misdemeanor assault after he slapped somebody in the face. This happened after a man in a Phoenix airport made a sarcastic comment about one of Simmon's videos. The man told police he wasn't hurt, but he does intend to file charges.

And we want to give you one other take on yesterday's 9/11 Commission testimony. When commissioner Jamie Gorlick (ph), who was deputy attorney general on President Bill Clinton, was questioning CIA director George Tenet, we noticed the she had an awful lot to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: Can give you a -- is it OK to give you some historical perspective?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As long as it's short.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAFFERTY: All right, Gorlick questioned tenet for a total of about 16 minutes -- 9 1/2 minutes, she was talking, 6 1/2 minutes, he answered her questions. This is mind boggling. The idea the commission is to have the people come and testify before you so that we might learn what their thoughts are on these issues. Somebody said if they didn't have cameras in this thing, it would have been a lot more productive. And based on her performance, I'd be inclined to agree.

By the way, we are getting an awful lot of unsolicited e-mails on the president doing jokes at that dinner about weapons of mass destruction. We're going to read some of those in the next -- at 9:25. People don't think it's funny at all.

O'BRIEN: Interesting. All right.

Thanks, Jack.

Let's head out to Bill in Washington, D.C. -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, thanks. Looking forward to that, Jack. We'll get to that again as we continue in the next hour here.

Also in the next hour, the White House locked in that all-out battle with the its former top terrorism adviser Richard Clarke, his testimony 2 1/2 hours long on Capitol Hill. We'll get the latest today. And there is yet another turn this morning. We'll get to it after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 25, 2004 - 08:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: From Washington today, I'm Bill Hemmer.
Good morning yet again. Soledad, how goes it back in New York City?

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Bill, it goes very well. Although we'll say we miss you very much here. Hope you had a nice time at that party last night. Although I have to tell you, Jack's been getting some e-mails about some of the comments about weapons of mass destruction that the president made in jest last night. I'm curious to know how the audience took it?

HEMMER: I think the reception was pretty receptive for lack of a better phrase. I can understand what you're hearing. There was a little rumblings about whether or not it was sensitive enough to the reality that we all know two and a half years later, also with the situation in Iraq as well. But overall, I think it was a speech that was given a way where the president tried to show a sense of humor, and I think, for the most part, it was taken that way.

In a moment here, Soledad, reaction from a woman whose mother was killed on 9/11, talking about Richard Clarke's testimony to the commission that we all watched and witnessed yesterday, her reaction to that personal apology that he began with yesterday during her testimony. We'll get to that in just a few moments here -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Also just ahead this morning, we're going to tell you the story of a desperate rescue going on in the Atlantic Ocean for a whale. We'll update you on that in just a few minutes.

But first, our top stories this morning. The U.S. facing a tough situation at the United Nations. The U.N. Security Council has been debating a resolution that condemns Israel for killing Hamas leader Sheikh Ahmed Yassin. Earlier this week that happened. A Security Council vote is expected as early as today.

The U.S. Army is expected to announce recommendations about preventing suicide among soldiers. This, after a new studies showed a higher than usual rate of suicides among soldiers during the invasion and occupation of Iraq. But officials say that mental health experts have concluded that there is no crisis. The study is expected to be released today.

In other news, police in Arizona have a big mystery on their hands, along with a whole lot of cash. A routine traffic stop uncovered more than a million dollars in cash hidden in a truck. Authorities in Arizona say the driver has refused to talk about where he got the money.

Happy birthday to or singer Aretha Franklin. The Queen of Soul was released from a Detroit hospital yesterday after being treated for a blood disorder caused by either a virus or an allergic reaction to antibiotics. Franklin says she plans to spend her 62th birthday just taking it easy. Probably a good idea.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Here in Washington, the political firestorm between the former White House counterterrorism czar Richard Clarke and the Bush administration showing no signs of burning out yet today. Natural security adviser Dr. Condoleezza Rice calls Clark's accusations scurrilous. Clark contends that the president did not pay attention to terrorism threats before 9/11. For his part, Clarke says Rice did not do her job before the attacks. He made these comments last night here on CNN. He is suggesting that if she had, the terrorism plot may have been uncovered.

Seemingly caught in all this tit for tat, the families of the victims from 9/11. Carie Lemack, who's mother, Judy Larock (ph) was killed in the World Trade Center back on 9/11. She helped create the group Families of September 11th. And Kerry is our guest this morning.

Nice to see you.

CARIE LEMACK, MOTHER KILLED ON SEPTEMBER 11TH: Good morning.

HEMMER: Good morning to you.

How was the last two days?

LEMACK: I think it's been very difficult for most of the family members, pretty frustrating quite honestly.

I think the most important thing for people to keep in mind is that safety is not a partisan issue. We've seen all this debate back and forth between the Democrats and Republicans about who was at fault. And for us, we don't want to make it partisan. We just want to make sure that whatever did happen, whatever the information they had before 9/11 that could have prevented it, gets out there, so we make sure it doesn't happen again.

HEMMER: So that's why you're saying the frustration comes in when you try to figure out what side is fighting for what and whom to believe?

LEMACK: Exactly. We heard a lot of different people say, well, we didn't have the intelligence at that time, we couldn't make the decision. It seems to me if they didn't have the right intelligence, they should have been changing the intelligence system. They should have been figuring a way to get the right information so they can protect American's lives.

HEMMER: I don't know if this is a fair question to you or not, but did you believe Richard Clarke yesterday? How was his credibility in your eyes.

LEMACK: Well, I think it's a fantastic that he had the courage to come forward and say what he believes to be true about what happened before September 11th. I've heard Dr. Rice say that she has evidence that what she said was wrong. I implore her to come forward and speak in front of the American public, to speak in front of the commission, under oath, in public, and let us know what that evidence is.

HEMMER: She has given several hours of testimony in private, has offered herself up to continue that testimony. Why is that not good enough for the families?

LEMACK: The American public deserves to see in public, under oath what she knew ahead of time, as in anyone. Anyone who knows information about the September 11th attacks should do this. Again, it's not a Republican versus Democrat issue; it is about safety. And if someone could tell us something, could tell the commission something, that could prevent more people from getting killed, well then, I think they should come forward.

HEMMER: Carie, I want you to listen to a part of Richard Clarke's testimony from yesterday, at the very beginning, in his opening statement before the commission. Listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD CLARKE, FMR. COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISER: Your government failed you. Those entrusted with protecting you failed you. And I failed you. We tried hard, but that doesn't matter, because we failed. And for that failure, I would ask, once all the facts are out, for your understanding and for your forgiveness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: What did that statement say to you yesterday?

LEMACK: Well, it's very emotional, I have to say. First and foremost, I think, understanding, he asked for understanding, we can't have that until everyone comes forward. So again, I say, if anyone does have information, I hope that they do come to the commission and publicly testify. In terms of forgiveness, that's tough, and I don't know how we're going to be able to react to that.

But I can say this, he's earned my respect and my gratitude for coming forward saying what's difficult, but saying what he believes is going to make America safer. And I hope that everyone else who has this information can do the same thing.

HEMMER: My best to you. Carie Lemack, our guest here in Washington.

LEMACK: Thanks so much.

HEMMER: Now back to you in New York, once again. Here's Soledad. O'BRIEN: All right, Bill. Thanks a lot.

Let's go overseas now. A teenage Palestinian boy was caught at a West Bank roadblock yesterday with a bomb strapped to his body. A TV camera recorded the scene as Israelis soldiers ordered the boy to take off his clothes, revealing an explosive vest. The boy, who says he's 14, called out that he did not want to die. A robot delivered a pair of scissors to help the teenager cut the bomb loose.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. SHARON FEINGOLD, IDF SPOKESWOMAN: He was frightened by the sharp and quickly reaction of the soldiers who pointed the guns and stopped him, and he raised his hands. At that time we grabbed him and persuaded him to assist us to dismantle him of the suicide vest that he was wearing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Just last week, at the same checkpoint, an 11-year-old Palestinian boy was discovered to have a bomb on a push cart. The use of children as possibly unwilling or unwitting suicide bombers is a disturbing issue. Palestinian psychiatrist Dr. Iyad Sarraj joins us from Gotha this morning.

Nice to see you, doctor. Thanks so much for being with us.

Let's begin with what the little boy -- or the young boy said. I mean, clearly, this is a terrible predicament for a 14-year-old boy. What does the circumstances tell you? What do you read into what's happened here?

DR. IYAD SARRAJ, PALESTINIAN PSYCHIATRIST: I think that it is an expression of the chaos of the Palestinian society today, the despair which is very deep now. It is an expression also of the dysfunction of the family, and the dysfunction of the political leadership in the Palestinian area today.

The child of this age, being abused that way, is an absolute crime that needs to be punished by the law. I think that tells you that this is not just one case or two. It could be repeated. And this is why we have to act at all the levels of the Palestinian society today and, of course, with cooperation with the Israelis authorities to prevent it, because we don't know who's behind it. I know for sure that Hamas and Islamic Jihad have declared that they will never use children. So who is using these children and the Aqsa Brigade that is claiming responsibility for it are everywhere. So we don't know who is the leadership of this Asqa Bridgade.

I don't think that -- I'm suspicious of that al Qaeda could be using this, or even the (UNINTELLIGIBLE). So we need to cooperate between the Palestinian authorities and the Israeli authorities to know exactly who is behind this crime, and it should be really pursued in the court.

O'BRIEN: The 14-year-old boy was not allowed to speak with the cameramen who happened to be at this checkpoint at the same time. What do you think should happen to this boy?

SARRAJ: I think this boy should be counseled, should be protected from the public and should be really given all the help he deserves, now to be helped. This boy is a expression of despair, of the way children have been abused, either to be used to -- as slave workers in the streets, or used as collaborators with the Israeli intelligence services, or now are being accused to carry bombs.

O'BRIEN: There are obviously...

SARRAJ: This is a double crime. At one hand, the child itself would have been a victim, and the other victims that potentially would have been hurt by this explosion.

O'BRIEN: There are obviously not a lot of details about this yet, but I'm curious to know how common do you think this is or are these two circumstances that we spoke about, are those fairly unusual?

SARRAJ: Well, as far as I know and from all the reaction that I have from the Palestinian communities, everybody is in full and strong condemnation of this. And almost people are disbelieving that this could happen.

But, of course, this is a society that has been going through turmoil, and difficulties and trauma. It is expected that some families of some children, or some criminals will be using our children in that way. Children are abused anywhere in the world, even in peaceful times, let alone a time of war, and trauma, and violence, and bombing and destruction and killing that is going every day.

O'BRIEN: Palestinian Psychiatrist, Dr. Iyad Sarraj joining us this morning. Thanks for your time, doctor. We certainly appreciate it -- Bill.

HEMMER: About 18 minutes now before the hour. Back here in Washington in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING, more and more U.S. jobs apparently headed overseas. How is that hurting the U.S. software industry? We'll find out just how bad in a moment, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, Oxycontin. It is one of the most powerful and addictive painkillers, but will new generic versions lead to an explosion of abuse? Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to join us to look at that, coming up next.

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O'BRIEN: The Food and Drug Administration has signed off on the first generic versions of the prescription painkiller Oxycontin. What does it mean for patient whose take the highly addictive medication?

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from the CNN Center with more details on this. Hey, Sanjay, good morning.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. O'BRIEN: Well, it may be a while before these generics actually hit the market. Purdue Pharma, the makers of Oxycontin, already hinting that litigation to prevent that from happening. Listen, Oxycontin has become a well-known drug recently. It is a very powerful painkiller, a potentially abused painkiller that got some headlines because of Rush Limbaugh and its association recently.

Called the granddaddy of all pain medication. This is a pain medication that's actually been around for some time. Used mainly for moderate to severe pain in patient whose have chronic pain, meaning long-term pain. It's not for short-term pain, such as patients with headaches occasionally.

The big thing about this drug, why it got popular, was that it allows for normal function, meaning, if used properly, it does not cause people to be drowsy. They can operate cars, carry on their normal functions regularly. It's sort of a time-release form, which means it works over 12 hours, giving people chronic pain relief. So a very popular drug for this reason. Doctors very, very excited about this drug, and the possibility of generics as well. The concerns about this drug, though, are potential addictions. It's potentially addictive as morphine. What they also concern about is that some abusers may get a euphoric high. We're going to take about that. If you actually crunch up the pills sometimes patient may get a euphoric high. It can be dangerous in situations. It can depress the blood pressure. It can depress respiration. That can cause problems.

It's a very expensive pill the way it stands right now, Soledad. This is why people get excited about generics. It cost about $100 for an 80 milligram pill right now. Generics possibly driving those costs down. Again, Purdue Pharma, the makers of Oxycontin say not so fast. We've got some patent issues here. The FDA has approved just this week two generic forms. We're going have to wait and see if those actually hit the market anytime soon -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Sanjay, two questions for you then, what are they doing to try to stem the abuse of the generic form of Oxycontin. What are they doing to try to make sure that people don't abuse it now?

GUPTA: The concerns about abuse have been something that a lot of people have been targeting. Again, let's just talk about the abuse for a second. I want to make a point that this drug can be a very good drug for people who have chronic pain. The abusers typically tend to chew this drug up, giving themselves that time-released form of it. They give to themselves all at once. This has been the concern for quite some time. The White House actually releasing a plan to try and stem the abuse, several things, states to track patient use, spot doctor shopping, so patients who go from doctor to doctor to try an get the pills, and shutting down pill mills. Those are just doctor offices or pharmacy companies that just basically produce these pill for abuse.

Now the FDA is bound to try and release these generic forms, but the companies that are making the generic forms are also going to have to abide by these regulations, warning labels that hey are highly addictive, warning specifically about these crushing dangers, education for both patients and doctors, and the surveillance and intervention for misuse.

Also the media talking about this so much really has alerted -- I talked to a lot of doctors around the country, saying that the media attention on this has probably provided some benefit in terms of stemming the abuse, people recognizing how potentially abused this drug can be -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Quick question for you. Just say it's 100 bucks cheaper. So wouldn't that necessarily increase the risk of people busing it, if it's so much cheaper?

GUPTA: Well, it's 100 bucks for an 80 milligram pill, and the generic forms will probably be cheaper than that. That is a concern. Exactly what you say is a concern. You're going to flood the markets. You're going to have more of a supply of these medications, or the generic sort of medication. So the concern about supply and demand goes up. But the doctors and the pharmacy experts we speak to say that this probably will not increase the abuse of this particular medication. If people wanted to abuse it, they would be abusing it already anyway. Hopefully, this will just serve to drive down costs -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Sanjay Gupta for us this morning. Sanjay, thanks -- Bill.

HEMMER: Here in Washington, we still do not know which way turn this election race is going to take this year, but it may hinge on a few items like the economy. The latest employment numbers are out. Moments ago, what they mean in a moment, when we continue after this.

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O'BRIEN: And welcome back, everybody.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: What's that old song, stuck in the middle with you?

O'BRIEN: Who's complaining, right?

CAFFERTY: Yes, no, I like it.

New numbers on the economy and jobs. Christine Romans in for Andy Serwer. She's Minding Your Business. Any good news? The market could use some.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. Fourth quarter growth, 4.1 percent, exactly what we thought it was going to be, 4.1 exactly half of what it was in the third quarter. Not too bad. But half of the gangbuster pack in Q3. Jobless claims, Jack, 339,000 people lined up for unemployment the last time around for the first time unemployment rate. But the four-week average, the longer way to measure it, the lowest since the beginning of 2001. So improvement there, but this is the way you have to look at it. The companies aren't laying people off as much, but they're not hiring anybody either. So that's the way those...

CAFFERTY: We get a jobs report next week?

ROMANS: That's so important.

CAFFERTY: I mean, the world is like this, waiting for these jobs to turn up.

ROMANS: Have been for months. And all the economists have been saying, it's going to be 200,000 300,000 and have been wrong. The economists have been so wrong on this.

CAFFERTY: Yes, remember that phrase Clinton used, "it's the economy Stupid?" Well, it still is, apparently, according to a survey.

ROMANS: Absolutely. Unemployment, 25 percent of the corporate economists, these are the economists who work for companies, are concerned about unemployment. That's their top concern. Budget deficit is the second. Terrorism, personal and corporate debt and inflation.

Jack, this is what I love about this survey. These are company economists. Companies are the ones who are laying people off and not hiring, and using productivity so they don't have to hire and are moving jobs overseas, and their top concern is unemployment. You figure it out.

CAFFERTY: I can't. That's Lou Dobbs' job. We do the very elementary stuff here. Lou Dobbs has the complicated issues at night.

Speaking of outsourcing, the jobs going to India, particularly in the computer industry.

ROMANS: The studies showing this isn't going away. Trying to figure out just how many jobs have left. One study showing from the Economic Policy Institute, 150,000 jobs left just from 2000 to 2002. Imagine how many more have left since then. Our producer Tod Monan (ph) says that the size of Macon, Georgia. Just keep that in perspective.

Another study yesterday said, listen, outsourcing is good. If companies didn't outsource, we'd loss more jobs here. So this is not going away.

CAFFERTY: All right, got to go to the file. Thanks, Christine.

Cafferty File, animal right's activist group PETA, out with its annual worst dressed list of celebrities who wear fur. Number seven, Lara Flynn Boyle. They say, quote, "unlike the entire forest of Foxes it takes to cover up Starr Jones, it only takes a fox (AUDIO GAP)

Pete says, quote, "Near far, wherever you, your furs should be mothballed with your fading star."

And the top award went to Diana Ross. PETA says, quote, "opted not to protest Diana's furry turn on the catwalk, thinking she wouldn't be able to walk a straight line anyway."

O'BRIEN: Wow, a little catty from PETA.

CAFFERTY: A little tough, nasty.

O'BRIEN: Excercise guru Richard Simmons got into a bit of a dust-up over one of his workout videos. Simmons, of "Sweating to the Oldies" fame, cited for misdemeanor assault after he slapped somebody in the face. This happened after a man in a Phoenix airport made a sarcastic comment about one of Simmon's videos. The man told police he wasn't hurt, but he does intend to file charges.

And we want to give you one other take on yesterday's 9/11 Commission testimony. When commissioner Jamie Gorlick (ph), who was deputy attorney general on President Bill Clinton, was questioning CIA director George Tenet, we noticed the she had an awful lot to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: Can give you a -- is it OK to give you some historical perspective?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As long as it's short.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAFFERTY: All right, Gorlick questioned tenet for a total of about 16 minutes -- 9 1/2 minutes, she was talking, 6 1/2 minutes, he answered her questions. This is mind boggling. The idea the commission is to have the people come and testify before you so that we might learn what their thoughts are on these issues. Somebody said if they didn't have cameras in this thing, it would have been a lot more productive. And based on her performance, I'd be inclined to agree.

By the way, we are getting an awful lot of unsolicited e-mails on the president doing jokes at that dinner about weapons of mass destruction. We're going to read some of those in the next -- at 9:25. People don't think it's funny at all.

O'BRIEN: Interesting. All right.

Thanks, Jack.

Let's head out to Bill in Washington, D.C. -- Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, thanks. Looking forward to that, Jack. We'll get to that again as we continue in the next hour here.

Also in the next hour, the White House locked in that all-out battle with the its former top terrorism adviser Richard Clarke, his testimony 2 1/2 hours long on Capitol Hill. We'll get the latest today. And there is yet another turn this morning. We'll get to it after this.

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