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CNN Live Sunday
Interview With NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer; Hamas Gaining Social Clout Among Women In Gaza
Aired March 28, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: CNN SUNDAY is ahead, but first these headlines. The new leader of Hamas calls President Bush an enemy of Muslims. Abdel Azia Rantisi condemned the U.S. and Israel today in a memorial service for his predecessor who died in an Israeli air strike Monday.
Officials in Iraq say the minister of Municipalities and Public Works narrowly escaped death in an ambush today in the north, but the attackers killed two others including her bodyguard.
Brazil is cleaning up from what meteorologists are calling the first hurricane on record in the South Atlantic. The storm destroyed hundreds of homes and left at least 2 dead and 11 missing.
I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. Also this hour, could a juror's hand gesture be big trouble in the trial of former Tyco executives.
What new polling says about Richard Clarke's testimony and how it's affecting the president's reelection campaign.
And exactly 25 years after the Three Mile Island accident, what is the biggest nuclear threat we face?
The criminal case that has come to symbolize corporate excess could be derailed this coming week by a roomful of jurors and the hand gesture of one of them. Jurors in the Tyco larceny case are supposed to tell the judge tomorrow whether they can keep deliberating until they reach a verdict. But first, to the mysterious hand gesture and Chris Huntington who has been covering the trial. What is this all about, Chris? What was he trying to do and say to whom?
CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, we're not exactly sure of the motivations of this juror who we will simply refer to as juror No. 4 action elderly woman who we do know has a law degree.
On Thursday afternoon, when she entered the court, she flashed what appeared to be okay sign, sort of brushing her hair back and signaling what looked like a classic okay symbol in the direction of the defense table. All of the defense lawyers and the two defendants, Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz are sitting at a couple of tables on what is the right side of the court, if you're looking out from the judge's perspective.
A number of the people in the court saw it. The prosecution, one of the prosecutors confirmed seeing it. They huddled with the judge about this, the judge even mentioned it on the record. And in fact, later on, when the jury was back in the jury room said to the jury you must not communicate with anyone involved in this case in any way. It's a very, very bizarre twist to a case that had already started to unravel because of fighting amongst the jurors.
LIN: Chris, did anybody at the defense table see it, including the defendants?
HUNTINTON: Very good question. And we asked several of the defense attorneys, and keep in mind both Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Schwartz each have about four attorneys there, none of the defense attorneys, and I spoke to four of them, claimed to have seen the gesture. Of course, they do not want to have seen that gesture, because that's just the kind of thing that adds all kinds of poison complexity to a case that, again, the jurors are saying that their deliberations have become poison, because they simply believe that one of the jurors is not deliberating in good faith. We don't quite know who that juror is. There is a lot of chatter, reports and speculation that it may be this woman.
LIN: Well, because of this hand gesture, is there any talk of defense attorneys filing for a mistrial?
HUNTINTON: They pop up and have asked for a mistrial about six or seven times since the trial began and just four times in the last couple days, each time being denied by judge Michael Obis.
They did indeed ask for a mistrial based on the reports of the hand gesture. Again, the defense being very careful to say they had not seen it. The judge is really trying to calm things down. With regard to the hand gesture, he said, look, this is an unfortunate thing, we don't want this. As I explained, he told the jury don't do these kind of things. He's really trying to calm things down to let the jury go home early for the weekend to try and cool off.
LIN: All right. We'll see what happens. We'll see what the jurors tell the judge on Wednesday. Thanks very much, Chris Huntington.
We want to turn now to the Setember 11 investigation. The pressure is growing on Condoleezza Rice to testify publicly about the attacks. Meanwhile, the man accusing her and others in the Bush administration of ignoring threats is responding to criticism. CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To congressional Republicans asking to declassify 2002 testimony, they say proves he's changed his story, Richard Clarke said he has nothing to hide. Other documents should also be made public, he said, to show the White House dragged its feet on the pre-9/11 threat of terrorism.
RICHARD CLARKE, FRM. COUNTERTERROISM ADVISER: Let's declassify that memo I sent on January 25 and let's declassify the national security directive that Dr. Rice's committee approved nine months later on September 4. And let's see if there's any difference between those two because there isn't.
BASH: Clarke accused the White House of selectively releasing one of his e-mails while others, even from the national security adviser, prove his efforts to confront terrorism were ignored. The secretary of state believes as much as possible should be declassified.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: My bias is and my recommendation will be, put out everything we can because the American people should be able to read it and see it and not just those of us who have clearances or the commission.
BASH: Top administration officials continue to call Clarke's various statements contradictory and question his motivations. The vice president telling "TIME" magazine, quote, he's taken advantage of the circumstances this week to promote himself and his book. Clarke insisted it's not about the money, it's about the truth.
CLARKE: The issue is not about me. The issue is about the president's performance in the war on terrorism.
BASH: Clarke has aimed his harshest criticism at his former boss Condoleezza Rice, also under fire for refusing to publicly testify before the 9/11 commission. Fellow Bush officials, who did appear, came to her defense, saying she's getting a bum rap.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: She is anxious to testify, the president would dearly love to have her testify, but she -- the lawyers, I think, probably properly have concluded that to do so would alter that balance, if we got into a practice of doing that.
BASH: But a growing number of Republicans say the White House is making a mistake.
REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, (R) CONNECTICUT: It's been one of the stupidest things this White House has done to resist the 9/11 commission.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a procedural and legal and precedenceal and constitutional issue here. Sometimes you have to set those aside because the circumstances require it, and I think she should probably go forward to the commission.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: The chairman of the 9/11 commission says they'll continue to press Rice to appear at a hearing, but ruled out trying to force her to testify with a subpoena -- Carol.
LIN: Dana, getting back to Richard Clarke and his saying that his testimony should be released publicly from a couple of years ago, doesn't that present a can of worms to the Bush campaign, given that they've been going after Richard Clarke and his credibility this week? BASH: Well, what the White House does believe at this point and you sort of heard a hint from that from the secretary of state is that perhaps the facts are on their side in terms of what they're trying to do to Richard Clarke by showing that he has lots of contradictory statements. What he said at the White House when he work for President Bush and what he is saying now in his book, they say, appear to be different.
But certainly, when it comes to this classified information, you know, particularly on an issue of this level, you know, the fight against terrorism at least preparing, there are all kinds of questions and declassifying information and the White House has been reluctant to do so. The committee looking into this in Congress had some difficulty getting the administration to declassify key things. This could be an interesting debate.
LIN: I see. All right. Tonight we're going to hear from Condoleezza Rice in her interview with "60 Minutes". Do you think this is the last we're going to hear from Condoleezza Rice on the accusations that Richard Clarke has made about the administration and what it did or did not do about 9/11? .
BASH: Well, it's interesting, the White House still believes she is one of their best spokes people on this issue. That she is articulate, advocate, if you will for the president's policies and trying to make people understand why they think that Richard Clarke is inaccurate in his charges here.
So it's unclear how quickly in the near future we are going to hear from Condoleezza Rice, but the White House is hinting there might sort of pull back a little bit on this counter offensive that we've seen all week.
LIN: Thanks very much, Dana Bash traveling with the president.
Well like many Americans, CNN's Bruce Morton watched last week's testimony before the 9/11 commission and here's his take on the hearings.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Harry Truman, as president, had a sign on his desk, "The buck stops here." Passing the buck back then meant trying to avoid responsibility. The sign was Truman's way of saying, "I'm in charge. If you want to blame someone, blame me."
That's not standard Washington practice. Every once in a while, sure. John Kennedy taking responsibility for the failed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, "Victory has a thousand fathers," he noted. "Defeat is an orphan," but he acknowledged his. It's very rare.
Officials often retreat to the passive voice: "Mistakes were made," a handy phrase which avoids having to say who made them.
And at the hearings on 9/11 this past week, a common theme was, "We tried." GEORGE TENET, DIRECTOR, CIA: I, as the director of central intelligence, must tell you, clearly, there was no lack of care or focus in the face of one of the greatest dangers our country has ever faced.
MORTON: That's what made Richard Clarke's statement to the commission so remarkable. He was, you remember, in charge of counterterrorism in the Bush and Clinton White Houses.
The first thing he said to the crowded hearing room was this:
CLARKE: To the loved ones of the victims of 9/11, to them who are here in the room, to those who are watching on television, your government failed you. Those entrusted with protecting you failed you. And I failed you. We tried hard, but that doesn't matter because we failed.
And for that failure, I would ask, once all the facts are out, for your understanding and for your forgiveness.
MORTON: I can't remember the last time I heard the buck stop like that in a hearing room. He'd have made Harry Truman proud.
I'm Bruce Morton.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Changes in the Middle East are not always accompanied by violence. Ben Wedeman reports on women's wear in Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONETN: Increasingly, women here are adopting what they believe to be more Islamic dress and more Islamic values. There are, however, those who are trying to resist the trend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Then, talks with one of the women who is foregoing the veil.
The Yankees talk about getting to the World Series and about what might derail them.
And a Spam restaurant? It is the latest in fast food and it's not even in the U.S.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Top stories this hour, the 9/11 commission says it will keep trying to get Condoleezza Rice to testify publicly.
The new leader of Hamas calls President Bush an enemy of god and Islam.
And Iraq's public works minister survives an attack that killed her driver and bodyguard.
The new leader of the militant group Hamas is denouncing President Bush as an enemy of Muslims. Abdel Aziz Rantisi's comments came at a memorial service for his slain predecessor. Rantisi says he was not surprised when the U.S. vetoed a U.N. resolution condemning Israel for the assassination of Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin.
Israel blames Hamas for more than 400 attacks that have killed 377 Israelis since September 2000. Israeli officials say they reserve the right to kill Hamas leaders at anytime in retraliation for those attacks.
Hamas is becoming an increasingly powerful force in Gaza both politically and socially. That shift is prompting some lifestyle changes for many Palestinian women. Our Ben Wedeman reports not everyone's happy with the adjustments.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the basement of the Gaza mosque, women of all ages listen to a sermon, piped down from the men's section upstairs.
The Imma'am is heaping fire and brimstone on Israel for assassinating Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin, a message that finds a receptive audience here. In Gaza, Hamas is increasingly setting the social, as well as the political agenda, especially for women.
"We live in a state of insecurity," says Hamas activist Jameel Ashanti (ph), "therefore, someone must stay at home. Or if they do leave home, they should wear a veil." Outside Gaza's Islamic University, it's hard it find a woman who isn't wearing one. It's a rule. But a rule some would like to break.
"This is imposed upon us by the Islamic movement," says student Iman who says she prefers to wear jeans. Others wear the veil out of conviction.
"Because that's what Islam wants," says Sama, another student.
In the early days of the Palestinian authority, some women discarded the veil, but with the authority slowly crumbling and Hamas on the rise, it's coming back with a vengeance.
(on camera): Increasingly, women here are adopting what they believe to be more Islamic dress and more Islamic values. There are, however, those who are trying to resist the trend.
(voice-over): Without a veil in stylish jeans, Lela Beyumi (ph) heads to work. Lela (ph) runs a have for women's rights, rights she takes very seriously. She doesn't have a problem with colleagues who choose to wear a veil, or hajab in Arabic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is my decision, my own decision to wear or not to wear. WEDEMAN: Occasionally she encounters criticism, but is strong as Hamas may be, she doesn't think the group can impose its beliefs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are deprived from our freedom for long years. So we will not accept to be also deprived from our social freedom in the Palestinian society.
WEDEMAN: But regardless of how they may really feel, most women here appear prepared to follow Hamas's idea of model behavior. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Gaza.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Imagine the international view from the White House, insurgents rising again in Afghanistan, suicide bombers and daily attacks in Iraq. A tenuous peace process, if you can call it that, between the Israelis and Palestinians. NATO, the alliance that said when one member is attacked all are attacked, has little to do with any of the above. That will change if the U.S. has its way when the NATO allies hold their summit in Istanbul this june.
Jaap de Hoop Scheffer is the new NATO secretary general and joins us now from Washington. Mr. Secretary General, it is a pleasure to have you. Thanks for being with us today.
JAAP DE HOOP SCHEFFER, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: Thank you.
LIN: I want to repeat some remarks I know you're familiar with by NATO's U.S. ambassador, who said NATO needs to focus where the threat is today. It is not in Europe, but Central Asia and the Middle East. Let me ask you this, in Iraq, the United States wants NATO to deploy force there's to help build a stable Iraq. Your predecessor, Lord Robertson has said when the time is right. When would that be, Mr. Secretary General?
SCHEFFER: Well, that could be soon, indeed. Do not forget that at the moment 18 of the soon to be 26 NATO members have forces on the ground in Iraq, although it's not a NATO operation. I could very well see a development in which a sovereign Iraqi government, after the first of July this year, supported by the United Nations, preferably with a new security council resolution, would call on NATO to take responsibility for some parts of the stabilization force.
LIN: Some part or all?
SCHEFFER: Well, all seems a bit farfetched at the moment, but I could very well imagine that NATO, under the conditions I just gave, would assume that responsibility.
LIN: For example, the United States also wants NATO to take over the command of all the forces in Afghanistan. How would you compare the two responsibilities then and the commitment that you're willing to make to the United States in both operations?
SCHEFFER: Well, it's not so much, of course, a commitment to the United States, it's a commitment 26 NATO allies enter into together. And you mentioned Afghanistan, as you know, NATO, ISAF, the stabilization force as it's called there, is expanding its responsibility to many more areas of the country supporting the government of President Karzai. And NATO will also be support in the electoral process when the elections, presumably now in September, will be held. So NATO is doing a lot already there and will expand responsibilities.
LIN: I think what the United States, though, is saying, that it wants NATO to take over all military operations in Afghanistan to have one single NATO command in Kabul. Is NATO prepared to take on this responsibility?
SCHEFFER: Well, I can see more synergy between the stabilization force and Operation: Enduring Freedom currently led by the coalition, by the United States of America, of course. I think we need more synergy, because we need a more unified command structure.
LIN: What does synergy mean to you.
SCHEFFER: Synergy means that you have, as I said, a more coordinated command and a closer relationship between ISAF and Operation: Enduring Freedom. If that in the long run would lead to a complete merger, it's a bit early to say at the moment, but certainly more synergy.
LIN: You know, when you talk about synergy, the United States is asking of NATO now, and will be specifically asking for in June, is a redefinition of how NATO operates in the world. It is asking that NATO concentrate its efforts in the war on terror in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, and not only that, but to actually take a part in the stabilization of the situation in the Middle East some role in the peace process between the Israelis on the Palestinians. How might that manifest itself and how far is NATO willing to go to help stabilize the situation there?
SCHEFFER: Well, threats start with the Middle East in general, because there's a lot of questions you put in this question to me. Let's start with the Middle East in general.
NATO has, over the years, a dialogue with the Mediterranean countries, North african countries Israel. And I think that in the framework of an outreach, as it's called, to the greater Middle East, NATO in the framework of what the G-8 is doing in the region, what the European Union might be doing in the region, NATO, of course, on the basis of its responsibility for security, I think could definitely outreach to the region and could be of help...
LIN: Outreach, as in peackeepers?
SCHEFFER: In military-to-military cooperation with the countries, miltary training, border control and what have you.
As far as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is concerned, unless there is a peace agreement, which unfortunately seems very far away now, I do not at this moment see a concrete role for NATO. If there is a peace agreement, NATO could very well play a role there, but again, that agreement unfortunately is very far away now.
LIN: Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, thank you very mcuh for joing us. NATO secretary-general. And welcome to the job.
SCHEFFER: Thank you.
LIN: Well, Supreme Court justices consider the Alien Tort Statute this week. Don't know the what that is? Stay tuned. It might hinder the Bush administration's war on terror.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: The Supreme Court will hear arguments this week on a case that pits individual rights against the war on terror. It involves a Mexican doctor kidnapped and brought across the border to face a criminal charge. CNN's Elaine Quijano reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): The question before the Supreme Court this week deals with a relatively obscure federal law, the Alien Tort Statute. The case involves the Mexican doctor Abutro Albreson Shane (ph) who in 1990 was kidnapped from Mexico by people working for the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. The doctor stood trial in L.A. for the murder of a DEA agent, but was acquitted after spending two and a half years in a U.S. prison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, (through translator): It's a very painful situation. I felt terrorized, filled with fear. It's a very bad situation for anyone to experience.
QUIJANO: The doctor sued several parties including those bounty hunters that kidnapped him. He was awarded $25,000 for emotional distress and one by citing the Alien Tort Statute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It gives the victims of egregious violations of human rights access to a federal forum in which their wrongs can be adjudicated.
QUIJANO: But one of the Mexican nationals involved in the kidnapping appealed the decision. Now, the case has wound its way to the Supreme Court and the Bush administration worries it could affect U.S. officials' ability to capture terrorists like Osama Bin Laden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They might very well want to do that without the benefit of the foreign governments' approval and if that happens, under the theory of the case here, anyone who assists the United States is subject to liability.
QUIJANO: Subject to liability, also could be U.S. corporations doing business overseas that are accused of violating international laws or human rights. Already, suits have been brought against several American companies.
EDWARD LAZARUS, ATTORNEY, AUTHOR: As globalization really expands, the question will be to what degree U.S. courts are going to be open to all kinds of acts of alleged international unlawfulness to settle in the United States even if they don't have that much connection to the United States.
QUIJANO (on camera): The Bush administration has also asked the Supreme Court to clarify when federal officers have the authority to arrest someone in a foreign country. The case is set to be argued Tuesday. A ruling is expected by June. Elaine Quijano, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: More news ahead, but first here's what's happening. National security adviser Condoleezza Rice faces mounting pressure to testify in public before a panel investigation of the September 11 terrorist attacks. She's already offered to answer questions in private for a second time, but the head of the 9/11 commission says the White House should waive executive priviledge to allow Rice to appear in public. An interview with Rice is scheduled to run tonight on "60 Minutes."
Was a weekend away from the case enough for jurors to end an apparent deadlock in the Tyco trial? They'll be back in court tomorrow to tell the judge whether they can continue with deliberations. The jury was released Friday after a dispute surfaced, paralyzing the trial.
Former Louisiana governor, Edwin Edwards, fails to get records hi lawyers say he needs for an appeal. In 2000, Edwards was convicted and jailed for extortion. A court rejects a request to release transcripts concerning the health of the judge who presided over the Edwards trial.
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Aired March 28, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: CNN SUNDAY is ahead, but first these headlines. The new leader of Hamas calls President Bush an enemy of Muslims. Abdel Azia Rantisi condemned the U.S. and Israel today in a memorial service for his predecessor who died in an Israeli air strike Monday.
Officials in Iraq say the minister of Municipalities and Public Works narrowly escaped death in an ambush today in the north, but the attackers killed two others including her bodyguard.
Brazil is cleaning up from what meteorologists are calling the first hurricane on record in the South Atlantic. The storm destroyed hundreds of homes and left at least 2 dead and 11 missing.
I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. Also this hour, could a juror's hand gesture be big trouble in the trial of former Tyco executives.
What new polling says about Richard Clarke's testimony and how it's affecting the president's reelection campaign.
And exactly 25 years after the Three Mile Island accident, what is the biggest nuclear threat we face?
The criminal case that has come to symbolize corporate excess could be derailed this coming week by a roomful of jurors and the hand gesture of one of them. Jurors in the Tyco larceny case are supposed to tell the judge tomorrow whether they can keep deliberating until they reach a verdict. But first, to the mysterious hand gesture and Chris Huntington who has been covering the trial. What is this all about, Chris? What was he trying to do and say to whom?
CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, we're not exactly sure of the motivations of this juror who we will simply refer to as juror No. 4 action elderly woman who we do know has a law degree.
On Thursday afternoon, when she entered the court, she flashed what appeared to be okay sign, sort of brushing her hair back and signaling what looked like a classic okay symbol in the direction of the defense table. All of the defense lawyers and the two defendants, Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz are sitting at a couple of tables on what is the right side of the court, if you're looking out from the judge's perspective.
A number of the people in the court saw it. The prosecution, one of the prosecutors confirmed seeing it. They huddled with the judge about this, the judge even mentioned it on the record. And in fact, later on, when the jury was back in the jury room said to the jury you must not communicate with anyone involved in this case in any way. It's a very, very bizarre twist to a case that had already started to unravel because of fighting amongst the jurors.
LIN: Chris, did anybody at the defense table see it, including the defendants?
HUNTINTON: Very good question. And we asked several of the defense attorneys, and keep in mind both Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Schwartz each have about four attorneys there, none of the defense attorneys, and I spoke to four of them, claimed to have seen the gesture. Of course, they do not want to have seen that gesture, because that's just the kind of thing that adds all kinds of poison complexity to a case that, again, the jurors are saying that their deliberations have become poison, because they simply believe that one of the jurors is not deliberating in good faith. We don't quite know who that juror is. There is a lot of chatter, reports and speculation that it may be this woman.
LIN: Well, because of this hand gesture, is there any talk of defense attorneys filing for a mistrial?
HUNTINTON: They pop up and have asked for a mistrial about six or seven times since the trial began and just four times in the last couple days, each time being denied by judge Michael Obis.
They did indeed ask for a mistrial based on the reports of the hand gesture. Again, the defense being very careful to say they had not seen it. The judge is really trying to calm things down. With regard to the hand gesture, he said, look, this is an unfortunate thing, we don't want this. As I explained, he told the jury don't do these kind of things. He's really trying to calm things down to let the jury go home early for the weekend to try and cool off.
LIN: All right. We'll see what happens. We'll see what the jurors tell the judge on Wednesday. Thanks very much, Chris Huntington.
We want to turn now to the Setember 11 investigation. The pressure is growing on Condoleezza Rice to testify publicly about the attacks. Meanwhile, the man accusing her and others in the Bush administration of ignoring threats is responding to criticism. CNN White House correspondent Dana Bash reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To congressional Republicans asking to declassify 2002 testimony, they say proves he's changed his story, Richard Clarke said he has nothing to hide. Other documents should also be made public, he said, to show the White House dragged its feet on the pre-9/11 threat of terrorism.
RICHARD CLARKE, FRM. COUNTERTERROISM ADVISER: Let's declassify that memo I sent on January 25 and let's declassify the national security directive that Dr. Rice's committee approved nine months later on September 4. And let's see if there's any difference between those two because there isn't.
BASH: Clarke accused the White House of selectively releasing one of his e-mails while others, even from the national security adviser, prove his efforts to confront terrorism were ignored. The secretary of state believes as much as possible should be declassified.
COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: My bias is and my recommendation will be, put out everything we can because the American people should be able to read it and see it and not just those of us who have clearances or the commission.
BASH: Top administration officials continue to call Clarke's various statements contradictory and question his motivations. The vice president telling "TIME" magazine, quote, he's taken advantage of the circumstances this week to promote himself and his book. Clarke insisted it's not about the money, it's about the truth.
CLARKE: The issue is not about me. The issue is about the president's performance in the war on terrorism.
BASH: Clarke has aimed his harshest criticism at his former boss Condoleezza Rice, also under fire for refusing to publicly testify before the 9/11 commission. Fellow Bush officials, who did appear, came to her defense, saying she's getting a bum rap.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: She is anxious to testify, the president would dearly love to have her testify, but she -- the lawyers, I think, probably properly have concluded that to do so would alter that balance, if we got into a practice of doing that.
BASH: But a growing number of Republicans say the White House is making a mistake.
REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, (R) CONNECTICUT: It's been one of the stupidest things this White House has done to resist the 9/11 commission.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a procedural and legal and precedenceal and constitutional issue here. Sometimes you have to set those aside because the circumstances require it, and I think she should probably go forward to the commission.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: The chairman of the 9/11 commission says they'll continue to press Rice to appear at a hearing, but ruled out trying to force her to testify with a subpoena -- Carol.
LIN: Dana, getting back to Richard Clarke and his saying that his testimony should be released publicly from a couple of years ago, doesn't that present a can of worms to the Bush campaign, given that they've been going after Richard Clarke and his credibility this week? BASH: Well, what the White House does believe at this point and you sort of heard a hint from that from the secretary of state is that perhaps the facts are on their side in terms of what they're trying to do to Richard Clarke by showing that he has lots of contradictory statements. What he said at the White House when he work for President Bush and what he is saying now in his book, they say, appear to be different.
But certainly, when it comes to this classified information, you know, particularly on an issue of this level, you know, the fight against terrorism at least preparing, there are all kinds of questions and declassifying information and the White House has been reluctant to do so. The committee looking into this in Congress had some difficulty getting the administration to declassify key things. This could be an interesting debate.
LIN: I see. All right. Tonight we're going to hear from Condoleezza Rice in her interview with "60 Minutes". Do you think this is the last we're going to hear from Condoleezza Rice on the accusations that Richard Clarke has made about the administration and what it did or did not do about 9/11? .
BASH: Well, it's interesting, the White House still believes she is one of their best spokes people on this issue. That she is articulate, advocate, if you will for the president's policies and trying to make people understand why they think that Richard Clarke is inaccurate in his charges here.
So it's unclear how quickly in the near future we are going to hear from Condoleezza Rice, but the White House is hinting there might sort of pull back a little bit on this counter offensive that we've seen all week.
LIN: Thanks very much, Dana Bash traveling with the president.
Well like many Americans, CNN's Bruce Morton watched last week's testimony before the 9/11 commission and here's his take on the hearings.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Harry Truman, as president, had a sign on his desk, "The buck stops here." Passing the buck back then meant trying to avoid responsibility. The sign was Truman's way of saying, "I'm in charge. If you want to blame someone, blame me."
That's not standard Washington practice. Every once in a while, sure. John Kennedy taking responsibility for the failed Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, "Victory has a thousand fathers," he noted. "Defeat is an orphan," but he acknowledged his. It's very rare.
Officials often retreat to the passive voice: "Mistakes were made," a handy phrase which avoids having to say who made them.
And at the hearings on 9/11 this past week, a common theme was, "We tried." GEORGE TENET, DIRECTOR, CIA: I, as the director of central intelligence, must tell you, clearly, there was no lack of care or focus in the face of one of the greatest dangers our country has ever faced.
MORTON: That's what made Richard Clarke's statement to the commission so remarkable. He was, you remember, in charge of counterterrorism in the Bush and Clinton White Houses.
The first thing he said to the crowded hearing room was this:
CLARKE: To the loved ones of the victims of 9/11, to them who are here in the room, to those who are watching on television, your government failed you. Those entrusted with protecting you failed you. And I failed you. We tried hard, but that doesn't matter because we failed.
And for that failure, I would ask, once all the facts are out, for your understanding and for your forgiveness.
MORTON: I can't remember the last time I heard the buck stop like that in a hearing room. He'd have made Harry Truman proud.
I'm Bruce Morton.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Changes in the Middle East are not always accompanied by violence. Ben Wedeman reports on women's wear in Gaza.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONETN: Increasingly, women here are adopting what they believe to be more Islamic dress and more Islamic values. There are, however, those who are trying to resist the trend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Then, talks with one of the women who is foregoing the veil.
The Yankees talk about getting to the World Series and about what might derail them.
And a Spam restaurant? It is the latest in fast food and it's not even in the U.S.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Top stories this hour, the 9/11 commission says it will keep trying to get Condoleezza Rice to testify publicly.
The new leader of Hamas calls President Bush an enemy of god and Islam.
And Iraq's public works minister survives an attack that killed her driver and bodyguard.
The new leader of the militant group Hamas is denouncing President Bush as an enemy of Muslims. Abdel Aziz Rantisi's comments came at a memorial service for his slain predecessor. Rantisi says he was not surprised when the U.S. vetoed a U.N. resolution condemning Israel for the assassination of Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin.
Israel blames Hamas for more than 400 attacks that have killed 377 Israelis since September 2000. Israeli officials say they reserve the right to kill Hamas leaders at anytime in retraliation for those attacks.
Hamas is becoming an increasingly powerful force in Gaza both politically and socially. That shift is prompting some lifestyle changes for many Palestinian women. Our Ben Wedeman reports not everyone's happy with the adjustments.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the basement of the Gaza mosque, women of all ages listen to a sermon, piped down from the men's section upstairs.
The Imma'am is heaping fire and brimstone on Israel for assassinating Hamas founder Sheik Ahmed Yassin, a message that finds a receptive audience here. In Gaza, Hamas is increasingly setting the social, as well as the political agenda, especially for women.
"We live in a state of insecurity," says Hamas activist Jameel Ashanti (ph), "therefore, someone must stay at home. Or if they do leave home, they should wear a veil." Outside Gaza's Islamic University, it's hard it find a woman who isn't wearing one. It's a rule. But a rule some would like to break.
"This is imposed upon us by the Islamic movement," says student Iman who says she prefers to wear jeans. Others wear the veil out of conviction.
"Because that's what Islam wants," says Sama, another student.
In the early days of the Palestinian authority, some women discarded the veil, but with the authority slowly crumbling and Hamas on the rise, it's coming back with a vengeance.
(on camera): Increasingly, women here are adopting what they believe to be more Islamic dress and more Islamic values. There are, however, those who are trying to resist the trend.
(voice-over): Without a veil in stylish jeans, Lela Beyumi (ph) heads to work. Lela (ph) runs a have for women's rights, rights she takes very seriously. She doesn't have a problem with colleagues who choose to wear a veil, or hajab in Arabic.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is my decision, my own decision to wear or not to wear. WEDEMAN: Occasionally she encounters criticism, but is strong as Hamas may be, she doesn't think the group can impose its beliefs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are deprived from our freedom for long years. So we will not accept to be also deprived from our social freedom in the Palestinian society.
WEDEMAN: But regardless of how they may really feel, most women here appear prepared to follow Hamas's idea of model behavior. Ben Wedeman, CNN, Gaza.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Imagine the international view from the White House, insurgents rising again in Afghanistan, suicide bombers and daily attacks in Iraq. A tenuous peace process, if you can call it that, between the Israelis and Palestinians. NATO, the alliance that said when one member is attacked all are attacked, has little to do with any of the above. That will change if the U.S. has its way when the NATO allies hold their summit in Istanbul this june.
Jaap de Hoop Scheffer is the new NATO secretary general and joins us now from Washington. Mr. Secretary General, it is a pleasure to have you. Thanks for being with us today.
JAAP DE HOOP SCHEFFER, NATO SECRETARY-GENERAL: Thank you.
LIN: I want to repeat some remarks I know you're familiar with by NATO's U.S. ambassador, who said NATO needs to focus where the threat is today. It is not in Europe, but Central Asia and the Middle East. Let me ask you this, in Iraq, the United States wants NATO to deploy force there's to help build a stable Iraq. Your predecessor, Lord Robertson has said when the time is right. When would that be, Mr. Secretary General?
SCHEFFER: Well, that could be soon, indeed. Do not forget that at the moment 18 of the soon to be 26 NATO members have forces on the ground in Iraq, although it's not a NATO operation. I could very well see a development in which a sovereign Iraqi government, after the first of July this year, supported by the United Nations, preferably with a new security council resolution, would call on NATO to take responsibility for some parts of the stabilization force.
LIN: Some part or all?
SCHEFFER: Well, all seems a bit farfetched at the moment, but I could very well imagine that NATO, under the conditions I just gave, would assume that responsibility.
LIN: For example, the United States also wants NATO to take over the command of all the forces in Afghanistan. How would you compare the two responsibilities then and the commitment that you're willing to make to the United States in both operations?
SCHEFFER: Well, it's not so much, of course, a commitment to the United States, it's a commitment 26 NATO allies enter into together. And you mentioned Afghanistan, as you know, NATO, ISAF, the stabilization force as it's called there, is expanding its responsibility to many more areas of the country supporting the government of President Karzai. And NATO will also be support in the electoral process when the elections, presumably now in September, will be held. So NATO is doing a lot already there and will expand responsibilities.
LIN: I think what the United States, though, is saying, that it wants NATO to take over all military operations in Afghanistan to have one single NATO command in Kabul. Is NATO prepared to take on this responsibility?
SCHEFFER: Well, I can see more synergy between the stabilization force and Operation: Enduring Freedom currently led by the coalition, by the United States of America, of course. I think we need more synergy, because we need a more unified command structure.
LIN: What does synergy mean to you.
SCHEFFER: Synergy means that you have, as I said, a more coordinated command and a closer relationship between ISAF and Operation: Enduring Freedom. If that in the long run would lead to a complete merger, it's a bit early to say at the moment, but certainly more synergy.
LIN: You know, when you talk about synergy, the United States is asking of NATO now, and will be specifically asking for in June, is a redefinition of how NATO operates in the world. It is asking that NATO concentrate its efforts in the war on terror in places like Afghanistan, Iraq, and not only that, but to actually take a part in the stabilization of the situation in the Middle East some role in the peace process between the Israelis on the Palestinians. How might that manifest itself and how far is NATO willing to go to help stabilize the situation there?
SCHEFFER: Well, threats start with the Middle East in general, because there's a lot of questions you put in this question to me. Let's start with the Middle East in general.
NATO has, over the years, a dialogue with the Mediterranean countries, North african countries Israel. And I think that in the framework of an outreach, as it's called, to the greater Middle East, NATO in the framework of what the G-8 is doing in the region, what the European Union might be doing in the region, NATO, of course, on the basis of its responsibility for security, I think could definitely outreach to the region and could be of help...
LIN: Outreach, as in peackeepers?
SCHEFFER: In military-to-military cooperation with the countries, miltary training, border control and what have you.
As far as the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is concerned, unless there is a peace agreement, which unfortunately seems very far away now, I do not at this moment see a concrete role for NATO. If there is a peace agreement, NATO could very well play a role there, but again, that agreement unfortunately is very far away now.
LIN: Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, thank you very mcuh for joing us. NATO secretary-general. And welcome to the job.
SCHEFFER: Thank you.
LIN: Well, Supreme Court justices consider the Alien Tort Statute this week. Don't know the what that is? Stay tuned. It might hinder the Bush administration's war on terror.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: The Supreme Court will hear arguments this week on a case that pits individual rights against the war on terror. It involves a Mexican doctor kidnapped and brought across the border to face a criminal charge. CNN's Elaine Quijano reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): The question before the Supreme Court this week deals with a relatively obscure federal law, the Alien Tort Statute. The case involves the Mexican doctor Abutro Albreson Shane (ph) who in 1990 was kidnapped from Mexico by people working for the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. The doctor stood trial in L.A. for the murder of a DEA agent, but was acquitted after spending two and a half years in a U.S. prison.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE, (through translator): It's a very painful situation. I felt terrorized, filled with fear. It's a very bad situation for anyone to experience.
QUIJANO: The doctor sued several parties including those bounty hunters that kidnapped him. He was awarded $25,000 for emotional distress and one by citing the Alien Tort Statute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It gives the victims of egregious violations of human rights access to a federal forum in which their wrongs can be adjudicated.
QUIJANO: But one of the Mexican nationals involved in the kidnapping appealed the decision. Now, the case has wound its way to the Supreme Court and the Bush administration worries it could affect U.S. officials' ability to capture terrorists like Osama Bin Laden.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They might very well want to do that without the benefit of the foreign governments' approval and if that happens, under the theory of the case here, anyone who assists the United States is subject to liability.
QUIJANO: Subject to liability, also could be U.S. corporations doing business overseas that are accused of violating international laws or human rights. Already, suits have been brought against several American companies.
EDWARD LAZARUS, ATTORNEY, AUTHOR: As globalization really expands, the question will be to what degree U.S. courts are going to be open to all kinds of acts of alleged international unlawfulness to settle in the United States even if they don't have that much connection to the United States.
QUIJANO (on camera): The Bush administration has also asked the Supreme Court to clarify when federal officers have the authority to arrest someone in a foreign country. The case is set to be argued Tuesday. A ruling is expected by June. Elaine Quijano, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: More news ahead, but first here's what's happening. National security adviser Condoleezza Rice faces mounting pressure to testify in public before a panel investigation of the September 11 terrorist attacks. She's already offered to answer questions in private for a second time, but the head of the 9/11 commission says the White House should waive executive priviledge to allow Rice to appear in public. An interview with Rice is scheduled to run tonight on "60 Minutes."
Was a weekend away from the case enough for jurors to end an apparent deadlock in the Tyco trial? They'll be back in court tomorrow to tell the judge whether they can continue with deliberations. The jury was released Friday after a dispute surfaced, paralyzing the trial.
Former Louisiana governor, Edwin Edwards, fails to get records hi lawyers say he needs for an appeal. In 2000, Edwards was convicted and jailed for extortion. A court rejects a request to release transcripts concerning the health of the judge who presided over the Edwards trial.
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