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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Rice Will Not Give Public Testimony to 9/11 Commission; Battle to Stop Exportation of Call Center Jobs
Aired March 29, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, GUEST HOST: Tonight, the White House stands firm. Condoleezza Rice says she will not give public testimony to the 9/11 Commission. But officials search for a compromise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't believe Dr. Rice has anything to hide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Answers tonight, after the worst friendly-fire incident in the war in Iraq, why 10 Marines died. We'll have a report from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for calling Wyndham reservations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: The battle to stop the export of American call center jobs to cheap overseas labor markets. I will talk with Senator Fritz Hollings about his new bill to protect American jobs. I will also talk with Jerry Jasinowski, president of the National of Association of Manufacturers.
And a dramatic increase in fruit and vegetable imports; food safety inspectors under strain. We will have a special report.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Monday, March 29. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs for an hour of news, debate and opinion, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening. Tonight the White House insists that National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice will not give public testimony under oath to the 9/11 Commission. But White House officials and members of the commission are looking for a compromise.
Senior White House correspondent John King reports -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Kitty, even more political pressure on this White House tonight for Dr. Rice to testify in public under oath. As you've noted, the White House continues to say that will not happen. Mr. Bush today, trying to highlight his leadership in the war on terrorism at a time we are seeing mounting evidence, this whole controversy about the 9/11 Commission and former counter-terrorism czar, Richard Clarke's allegations that Mr. Bush did not pay close attention to terrorism before 9/11, is having a dramatic political impact.
Look at our new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll. Seventy percent of the American people say they are very closely or somewhat closely following Mr. Clarke's allegation. Now, the White House says that allegation is not true. They say Richard Clarke said very different things when he was in the government and is trying to sell a book now. And also a key part of the administration's strategy is to hope that come November, voters pay not attention to what the president did before 9/11, but to what he did after.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've seen calm when calm was needed, a decisive action when action was required. I'm honored to serve at his side and I can say with great pride that this nation is stronger and more secure because George W. Bush is president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: But that poll also shows mounting questions about the president's leadership in war on terrorism and the whole controversy now, not only about Clarke's allegation, that the president ignored the warnings, but also Dr. Rice's refusal to testify.
Democratic pollster, Peter Hart, saying earlier today he believes this president has a serious credibility problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER HART, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: I think the bottom line is, it's going to be a major challenge to the president's credibility. Because the American public starts to connect the dots. Being told one thing about the weapons of mass destruction, another thing about 9/11, a third thing about the number of jobs that are being created. A fourth thing, about prescription drugs. And they start to say, what is going on here. Where is the truth?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, Senate Democrats again putting pressure on the White House to have Dr. Rice testify publicly. Some Senate Democrats say tomorrow they will bring a resolution to the floor of the Senate, demanding that she testify under oath. Kitty, the White House line remains that she will meet with the commission in private. She also wants to meet with some families of 9/11 victims. And they're trying to work out a compromise so she takes questions from the commission in private, but that at least some of her answers are later included in the final report put on the public record -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, John King.
The latest opinion poll says voters are divided along party lines in their views on the president's policies on the war on terror.
Senior political analyst Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Who do people believe, Richard Clarke or the Bush administration? And the answer is a tie. Forty-six percent of Americans said they're more likely to believe the Bush administration, while 44 percent are more likely to believe Clarke. Republican leaders have attacked Clarke's credibility.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: It is one thing for Mr. Clark to dissemble in front of the media, in front of the press. But if he lied under oath to the United States Congress, it's a far, far more serious matter.
SCHNEIDER: Those attacks have rallied the GOP faithful. While 3/4 of Democrats and over 50 percent of Independents say they believe Clarke, Republicans are solidly behind their president, 83 percent. Clarke's charges have evoked an intensely partisan response. Americans are divided over President Bush. They're divided over Clarke's credibility and they're divided over Clarke's allegations, because they deal with Iraq.
RICHARD CLARKE, FMR. COUNTERTERRORISM CHIEF: By invading Iraq, the president of the United States has greatly undermined the war on terrorism.
SCHNEIDER: Is Iraq part of the war on terrorism? Or an entirely separate military action as Clarke suggests? Americans are split along party lines.
Has the controversy damaged President Bush's standings for re- election? Three weeks ago John Kerry was leading President Bush 52 to 44 percent among likely voters. And now, Bush has pulled ahead, 51 to 47 percent. No evidence of damage to the president.
What we do find evidence of is damage to Kerry. The Bush campaign has set out to define Kerry in the voters' minds, and it looks like it's having an impact.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Since February, when it became clear that Kerry would be the Democratic candidate, overall opinion of John Kerry has become more negative. Growing numbers of Americans are calling Kerry too liberal. The White House campaign to discredit John Kerry and Richard Clarke has sharpened the partisan divide -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Bill Schneider. Thanks, Bill.
Joining me now is Ron Brownstein. He's a political columnist with the "Los Angeles Times," and also a CNN political analyst.
And thanks very much for joining us, Ron.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Kitty.
PILGRIM: You know, there is a huge outcry for transparency in the Condoleezza Rice issue, and yet it is an ongoing policy matter. So there's this -- these two sides of this issue. How do you reconcile that?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, William Cohen was on recently, a few minutes ago on CNN, also pointing out that they do have a legal case to make against her testifying in open session. On the other hand, the politics of it are very difficult historically for an administration to argue, especially on something of this magnitude, that the American people should not hear from one of the senior policymakers is always a very tough case to make.
The natural instinct of most voters, I think, is to believe they have something to hide. Whether they do or not. I mean she has certainly been out on television a lot making her case. I think it's hard for people to understand why she wouldn't be willing to do so in front of the congressional commission investigating the worst tragedy on American soil.
PILGRIM: You know, they accuse the White House of over-lawyering this. Yet it does set a precedent, doesn't it?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Look, I mean I think there is clearly that issue. They do not want to establish a president -- precedent of the national security adviser. They're very tough on executive privilege in general, and on the flow of information more broadly than that. Everything from the Freedom of Information Act to the Cheney Commission on Energy.
But look, a rule in Washington is that when you get caught up in a process story, it's usually a bad place to be; because it provides a very easy hook for the press to keep the story alive day after day, after day. And I think they're going to have to find some kind of compromise to allow them to move on to their substantive rebuttal.
PILGRIM: You know, I'm quite honestly astonished how long this story has been going. And it's become more about Condoleezza Rice than about the actual issue. Do you see any end to this? And what would you advise the White House to do, to stop this?
BROWNSTEIN: It's not my job to advise the White House. But I agree with you that it is going go on. Look, first, it's going to go on for a while because it's not just about Richard Clarke and Condoleezza Rice. There is this separate process of the congressional commission going on. They are holding hearings that were very high profile last week. They put out four staff reports in which there was considerable echoing of some of the concerns that Clark raised from other people in the administration, including officials at the CIA and the Pentagon.
They have a report that is due out to the Congress and the country on July 26. Which happens to be the first day of the Democratic convention this summer. So, these issues are not going away. We're going to continue to debate them. You saw in your poll that the president's overall approval rating has held strong. In fact, moved up over the last few weeks. But on terrorism specifically, it did decline as it did in the "Newsweek" poll released over the weekend.
It has to be a concern over the White House because that is the core of his political strength, I believe, at this point; the sense that he's provided strong leadership in the war against terror.
PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much. Ron Brownstein, thanks.
BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Vice President Dick Cheney today focused on the economy and he accused Senator John Kerry of planning huge tax increases to pay for his spending proposals. Now, the Kerry campaign said the vice president's charges were, quote, "misleading, false and fabricated," unquote. Meanwhile, Senator Kerry spent the day raising much-needed cash for his campaign.
Bob Franken reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fine.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's out in California today. John Kerry is combining campaign appearances with events that are sorely needed to provide the fuel for the campaign. Money. This appearance is being combined with the beginnings of a 20-state fund raising tour. It will come complete with Hollywood glitter. Appearances by Ben Affleck and Leonardo DiCaprio, all aimed at accumulating the $80 million Kerry's campaign believes it needs to take on the other side, which is visibly involved in taking him on.
CHENEY: It turns out John Kerry has voted in the Senate at least 350 times for higher taxes. That averages to one vote for higher taxes every three weeks for almost two decades.
FRANKEN: The Kerry campaign shot back. Like Bush, Cheney has no credibility to lecture anyone on the economy.
KERRY: With each attack, this administration is building up the truth deficit, to go along with the jobs deficit, and the fiscal deficit, and their international, intelligence gathering, credibility deficit.
FRANKEN: Kerry had just returned to the campaign after vacation. But now he's planning to take some sick days. Actually rehab days after some elective shoulder surgery Wednesday.
(END VIDEOTAPE) FRANKEN: And because of the surgery, his campaign has decided it's very important that it preempts any questions about Kerry's health, because it was just last year that he had surgery to remove an early-stage, prostate organ in his body. The doctor for Kerry, his long-time doctor came out with a letter this afternoon saying he continues to be in very good health.
Kerry, of course, likes to show himself in various physical situations. His doctor saying that is because he is particularly fit, particularly for a man of 60 years old -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Bob Franken. Thanks, Bob.
Still to come, 10 U.S. Marines were killed in the worst friendly fire incident in the war in Iraq. And tonight the Pentagon explains why.
Plus, Americans are eating more imported food than ever before. We'll have a special report on the safety of our food supplies.
And the fight to keep American jobs in this country. I will talk with Senator Fritz Hollings; he says it's time to scrap free trade agreements.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Insurgents today killed an American soldier in Iraq. A bomb exploded near a military convoy, about 10 miles from the town of Fallujah west of Baghdad. In Basra, British soldiers today, evicted Iraqis occupying a government building. One Iraqi grabbed a soldier's rifle. The troops quickly subdued the Iraqi and recovered the weapon. And in Baghdad, thousands of Iraqis protested against the closure of a newspaper. The paper is published by the followers of a cleric who is critical of the United States. Officials said the newspaper was inciting violence against coalition troops.
The Pentagon has completed an investigation into the worst friendly-fire incident during the Iraq war. Ten U.S. Marines were killed when Air Force planes attacked their positions. Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports -- Jamie.
JAIME MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, this was on March 23, the deadliest day of combat in Iraq. And U.S. Marines were in a fierce battle at Nasiriyah, trying to secure a key supply route to the north. They were engaging enemy forces, when suddenly they were attacked by U.S. Air Force A-10 fighter jets from above by mistake, as it was recounted to CNN by the commander of Charlie Company, a few months after the fact.
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CAPT. DAN WITTNAM, CMDR., CHARLIE COMPANY: To be honest with you, the first thought that went through my mind was, thank God an A- 10 is on station. Holy cow. Then the earth went black. From the dirt being kicked up. And a feeling of absolute utter horror. And disbelief.
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MCINTYRE: Now, investigators from the U.S. -- investigators from the U.S. Central Command have faulted a Marine who was far from the action. A Marine captain who called in the A-10 strikes unaware that Charlie Company had pushed ahead of his unit and was engaging the enemy. Two A-10s made multiple passes over the group of vehicles thinking they were enemy vehicles, dropping bombs, firing missiles; even strafing them with their tank-busting guns that fired depleted uranium shells.
Now, as many as 10 Marines were killed; but because 18 Marines were killed in this combat situation, and some of them had wounds both from the depleted uranium shells and from enemy fire, they can't say for sure how many were killed by friendly fire. They believe it was about 10, with three others wounded.
That's made it very difficult for some of the families to adjust to, how long -- exactly what happened to their loved ones. But they all were delivered reports over the weekend.
Now, some in the Marines are questioning why -- some of the things about the report, why all the blame is going on the Marine captain and none on the Air Force pilot. Among the questions, "why weren't the pilots better trained to spot friendly vehicles?" They didn't know they were friendly vehicles. "Why didn't they see the cease-fire flares that the Marines fired in desperation to try to get them to stop firing?"
And the cockpit videotapes that would have recorded the incident were apparently recorded over. And so that was hampering the investigation as well.
Now, this Marine captain, who called these strikes in by mistake, will face some disciplinary action. Or could face disciplinary action for violating a standing order that required him to get a higher level of authorization before ordering those strikes, something he did not do -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Jamie, what kind of disciplinary action might he face?
MCINTYRE: Well, in theory, he could be court-martialed. Although the investigators note that he, one, fully cooperated with the investigation, was not evasive at all. And also served very admirably and bravely after the mistake was made in staying with his unit and trying to help the Marines who were hurt. So that will act in his favor. Also, his commanding officer gave him the OK to send this -- to call in these air strikes as well. So it's likely he might fight some administrative action, but no criminal charges.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much Jamie McIntyre
A report on the bombing of the U.N.'s headquarters in Baghdad last August was strongly criticized by U.N. officials. Twenty-two people were killed in that attack, including the U.N.'s top official in Iraq. Investigators said the United Nations went into Baghdad without taking proper security precautions.
Senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth reports -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, the second scathing report on the U.N.'s failure to protect its own in Baghdad leading to that August 19 bombing. Today the other shoe, discipline here at the U.N., dropped. The report says the United Nations only has itself to blame for a failure to protect its Baghdad compound last August, and the U.N. is pointing fingers at some of its own people. Accountability not often practiced in the bureaucratic U.N. complex.
An independent panel concluded senior U.N. political and security officials, in Baghdad and New York, were under an illusion based on the do-good image of the organization.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GERALD WALZER, CHMN., IRAQ ACCOUNTABILITY PANEL: Senior management was certain that the U.N. was -- wasn't in imminent danger of being a target.
ROTH (voice-over): The report says a proper security assessment mission was never done before the U.N. returned to Iraq as the war wound down. Security management at the U.N. base was called deficient and lacking cohesion. Field security warnings were ignored by U.N. leaders in Baghdad. A high level, Iraq advisory group, based in New York, got poor marks for putting staff at risk by ignoring security dangers. Secretary-General Kofi Annan expressed his disappointment and regret. The groups' leader, Annan's own deputy, Louise Frechette offered to resign.
FRED ECKHARD, U.N. SPOKESMAN: The secretary-general, taking into account the collective nature of the failures attributable to the Steering Group on Iraq as a whole, declined to accept the resignation.
ROTH: Annan asked the U.N.'s chief of security to resign. Tun Myat was described in the report as seemingly oblivious to the developing crisis. And the lead manager of the U.N. mission, Ramiro Lopes da Silva was demoted to the World Food Program.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: But some U.N. insiders and critics say the discipline doesn't go far enough. Five people named, only one fired, considering the death and injury toll there. And the U.N. is going to face security problems if it indeed decides to go back into Iraq later this year -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Richard Roth at the U.N.
President Bush today welcomed seven new countries to NATO. The president held a ceremony at the White House for the prime ministers of the seven countries, all former communist nations. Twenty-six countries are now members of NATO. The alliance was established in 1949 to defend Western Europe from the former Soviet Union. Still to come, the Tyco jury resumes deliberations after the judge denies a mistrial motion. We'll have a live report from Lower Manhattan.
And Americans are eating more and more food produced overseas. We'll tell you why this is putting a strain on several federal agencies and what it could mean for food safety.
Stay with us.
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PILGRIM: Federal agencies responsible for making sure our food supply is safe, they say they're inspecting more food imports than ever. And that's because Americans are eating more foods produced overseas.
Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From common produce, like strawberries arriving from Mexico, to exotic foods like jellied duck eggs from Taiwan; Americans are now eating more imported food than ever, 42 percent more than 20 years ago. Vegetable imports have nearly tripled, while fruit imports have jumped four-fold.
DR. ROBERT BRACKETT, FOOD & DRUG ADMIN.: The American consumers have become accustomed to having fresh products year round from different parts of the world. So we've had to learn how to handle these products. We've had to learn what sort of food safety issues might be associated with them, and of course, make sure that they are safe for our people.
WIAN: Together with the threat of bio-terrorism, it's increasing the pressure on an already strained U.S. food safety net. Imported foods have resulted in recent outbreaks of hepatitis from Mexican green onions. Globalization of food production is also forcing inspectors to be on the lookout for Mad Cow disease and Bird Flu.
CAROLINE SMITH DEWAAL, CTR. FOR SCIENCE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST: U.S. consumers eat a diet that's about 20 percent imported foods. The bottom line, from the vast increase in imported foods is that a lot less imported food is inspected today than it was 10 years ago.
WIAN: Several federal agencies are responsible for inspecting imported food, including the Food and Drug Administration, the Agriculture Department and Homeland Security. All say they're conducting more inspections than ever.
(on camera): Customs and border protection inspectors look for evidence of bio-terrorism, health and safety problems and trade law violations. In all, they're responsible for enforcing 600 laws from 60 different federal agencies.
(voice-over): Estimates of how much imported food that is actually inspected range from 1 to 5 percent. Government officials say many are low-risk and don't need physical inspections, while technology and intelligence help identify those that do. The FDA wants a $65 million budget increase next year. Only about five million of that is for actual inspections of imported food.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: That brings us to the topic of tonight's poll question. Would you support an increase in the FDA budget to inspect more imported food? Yes or no? Cast your vote cnn.com/lou, and we'll bring you the results later in the show.
Still ahead tonight, exporting America. Call centers in India and elsewhere around the globe could be in jeopardy thanks to a trend in corporate hiring. I'll have a special report.
Plus, another bizarre turn of events in the Tyco corporate crime trial. We'll have a live report. And CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin will join us.
And then, an American soldier wounded in Iraq returns home to a very generous surprise.
Those stories and much more ahead, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now with more news, debate and opinion, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: We've been reporting for more than a year on the hundreds of thousands of American jobs lost to cheaper foreign labor markets. Many of those jobs were in the service industry. And they have migrated to call centers in India and elsewhere overseas. But now, some companies are finding incentives to keep those jobs in America.
Bill Tucker has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This may just be the call center of the future, a far cry from this. And it offers businesses, workers and customers a different kind of experience.
GLORIA PRICE, EMPLOYEE, WORKING SOLUTIONS: Thank you for calling Wyndham reservations...
TUCKER: Glenda Price works at home on the phone for a company, Working Solutions, which sells her time and services to companies that have no call center workers, or who need to add to their staff during busy periods. For Gloria, it's a paycheck on her terms.
PRICE: I'm able to make my own schedule now, work as many hours as I would like to work. It gives me more time to spend with my husband and my family.
TUCKER: Wyndham Hotels, a client, is happy, too. It no longer has to hire people during busy times only to fire them after the rush passes.
KIM HOULNE, PRESIDENT, WORKING SOLUTIONS: They're able to scale up when they need to and to scale back down; based on the project, if you will. So they're not having to, you know, ramp up very quickly internally when they don't -- maybe not have the space. They can actually send out to us in a virtual environment. We're able to scale up for them very quickly.
TUCKER: Besides providing efficiency, firms like Working Solutions also provide Wyndham with something an offshore phone center can't.
DAVID MUSSA, VICE PRESIDENT, WYNDHAM INTERNATIONAL: Well, they bring the American experience actually. I can talk to any of the Working Solutions agents and they understand what it is to go to Disneyland.
TUCKER: Even among companies where the call center is kept internal, these centralizing new call center to the home is turning up some interesting advantages.
DAVID NEELEMAN, CEO, JETBLUE: Attrition levels are very low, compared to industry standards. And it's just a great way to do business. And you know, we have 100 percent of our people on the phones, who take reservations, are in their homes.
TUCKER: The way Jetblue deals with slow periods is to allow workers to sign up for voluntary time off. It's unpaid, but it allows workers the flexibility they find so appealing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Management of these new models is made simple by the same technology that makes these models possible, and that allows the calls to are tracked and monitored remotely, Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
Well, a new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll finds that the exporting of American jobs is playing a big role in the presidential campaign. More than 80 percent of Americans surveyed say keeping U.S. jobs from going to other countries will be important in deciding their vote for president.
My next guest has introduced a bill in Congress that would keep American jobs in this country. Senator Fritz Hollings knows firsthand the impact of the exporting of America. His home state of South Carolina has lost more than 60,000 textile jobs since the North American Free Trade Agreement went into effect. And Senator Hollings joins me now from Capitol Hill.
And thanks very much for joining me. SEN. FRITZ HOLLINGS (D-SC), COMMERCE COMMITTEE, BUDGET COMMITTEE: Thank you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: You know, it's -- you have likened GATT and NAFTA to foreign aid. You basically said no free trade agreements should be in effect. This seems fairly intense. Why do you say that? Nothing at all?
HOLLINGS: No. What we're trying to do is not have a half-free trade agreement. You see, our competitors, they have restrictions. We give them free access. And what I'm trying to do is, like I said about world peace, you don't get that by just waving the white flag of surrender, you've got to fight for it. And the same with free trade. You've got to be able to compete. You've got to raise a barrier to remove a barrier. So I'm not against free trade, I'm trying to obtain free trade, to tell you the truth. And that isn't what we've had.
PILGRIM: You're calling for a level playing field. But you say, in effect, some of these agreements just lower America's standard of living. What would you like to see done to make it more of a level playing field?
HOLLINGS: Well, in order to do this, you've got to go about and understand how important that manufacture is to our economy. In other words, the economy of the United States is like a three-legged stool. You've got the one leg of our values unquestioned, the second leg of our military power, which is unquestioned, but the economic leg has been fractured in the cold war, whereby we were trying to spread capitalism to defeat communism with the Marshall plan. It's worked. But we more or less gave away the store. Now we've got to compete, and as you indicate, try to protect our standard of living.
So the first order of business is to organize in a comprehensive way, reorganize, for example, the Department of Commerce into the Department of Trade and Commerce and stop sponsoring the export of jobs, like the secretary did in January. They were up there in New York with the Chinese, trying to export the jobs. What we've got to do is change that Department of Commerce into trying to create the jobs and maintain the jobs that we have in this country.
Second, we need to get about enforcement. We need an attorney general in charge of enforcement over in the Justice Department. Then we've got to go to the financing. Stop the financing of the exportation of jobs, the production overseas. On the contrary, let's, by gosh, finance domestic production, give them a tax break. Otherwise, you need about 1,000 custom agents to stop these transshipments of unregulated products coming into the country.
And most of all, we've got to start with the Department of Commerce making up a list of those things important to our national security. We couldn't go to war in Desert Storm until we got the flat panel displays from Japan, and that shouldn't ever happen again. We don't have to wait up two months. We've got to have the necessary military equipment necessary to our national security.
PILGRIM: In your mind, we're risking our national security by exporting so much of this production overseas.
HOLLINGS: Oh, there isn't any question about it. Akio Morita said years ago, the head of Sony -- he said that world power that loses its manufacturing capacity will cease to be a world power.
PILGRIM: In effect, though, the argument against keeping some of these jobs here is that they're such low-level jobs. Your argument seems to negate that because you're saying let's keep high-tech and important jobs in the country.
HOLLINGS: Not only high-tech, important jobs, what you call a textile job. Look, we never made an automobile in our lives in South Carolina, but we got BMW there. And after training with our technical training centers, we produce a better automobile than they do in Munich. But is that a high-tech or a low-tech job? Is textiles high- tech or low-tech? We need all of these jobs fundamental to our national security.
I had a hearing under President Kennedy that found, next to steel, textiles was second most important to our national security. At that time, 40 years ago, we couldn't send them to war in a Japanese uniform.
PILGRIM: Very interesting point. Thank you very much for joining us. Wish we had more time. Senator Fritz Hollings, thank you.
HOLLINGS: Yes. Thank you.
PILGRIM: Tonight's thought on globalization -- and here it is -- "The 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy." Those words from social scientist Alex Carey.
A senior White House official had an unwelcome visit Sunday from hundreds of protesters at his Washington home. Karl Rove called the police after immigrant rights activists began pounding on his door and windows. Now, the group is calling for a legal status for illegal aliens who graduate high school. Rove eventually agreed to meet with two of the protest leaders in his garage. And soon after, he escorted them out of his garage and asked them to leave his property.
Coming up: a bizarre twist in the multi-million-dollar fraud case of two former Tyco executives. We'll have the latest on that. And a long legal battle ends for Disney over Winnie-the-Pooh. We'll have that story. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The judge in the trial of former Tyco executives Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz today ordered the jury to resume deliberations. The judge rejected defense motions for a mistrial after a juror was thought to give the OK sign in the direction of the defense last week. Mary Snow is at the New York state supreme courthouse -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, when the day started, it seemed that that apparent hand signal could derail the entire six- month trial. And while it came close, it did not. The defense asked for a mistrial, citing the fact that at least two newspapers identified the juror by name and also described her as being a hold- out juror. The judge met with the juror privately and emerged from that meeting saying that there was nothing to prohibit her from deliberating in good faith, and also the fact that he said she was an independent woman. He denied the request for a mistrial and instructed the jury to continue their deliberations.
And it appeared that the jurors put their problems behind them, problems that emerged last Thursday, when the atmosphere was described as "poisonous." Jurors sent out several notes asking for clarification on some charges and exhibits. And it seems that they were continuing progress, deliberating 32 counts against the former top executives at Tyco, Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz. Both stand accused of looting the company of $600 million. This was day eight of deliberations without a verdict -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much, Mary Snow.
Joining me now is CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. And Jeffrey, I have to say, this has been a wacky trial. I've never heard anything called "poisonous" in the jury room before, and all these weird wrinkles -- flashing the OK sign. It seems a little out of the box.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Poisonous jury deliberations actually aren't all that common. You often hear a lot of loud, angry talk in a jury room. What's so weird about this case is the juror making this gesture, after being instructed, as jurors always are, not to betray favoritism toward one side or the other. Obviously, coming on the hands -- on the heels of last week, where 11 jurors apparently were complaining about this one juror, the judge was really in a pickle.
PILGRIM: And yet he refuses to declare a mistrial. What do you think about that?
TOOBIN: Well, you know, this judge has spent six months on this case, tremendous amount of time. Lots of the taxpayers' money at work. It's understandable, it's appropriate for him to try to hold it together. And he seems to have done the right thing in interviewing the jurors, finding out if she is in any position to throw up her hands and say, I can't deliberate. She apparently could -- said she could, in any case. And then jury deliberations went on fairly normally today. As Mary pointed out, the jury asked for exhibits, asked to hear testimony. So jury deliberations seem to be on track. We'll see whether they actually can reach a verdict. Eight days is a long time.
PILGRIM: Yes. Well, also, there's another odd thing, in that her name was published in the newspapers. That's highly irregular. TOOBIN: Very unusual. Most of us in the news business -- it's more a custom than a law of never using the names of jurors while a jury is out. But here, CNN decided not to use her name, but other news outlets did. And I can understand both perspectives. This woman isn't just any old juror. She behaved in a very peculiar way. She is in a newsworthy case. She engaged in newsworthy behavior. So they named her. But it is a point that if there's a conviction, the defense will argue for -- will raise on appeal that because she was identified, she couldn't be a fair juror.
PILGRIM: This is a 32-count indictment. According to jury notes last week, they seemed to be leaning toward guilty? Is that correct?
TOOBIN: The jurors seem to be indicating at least guilt on some counts, except for the hold-out juror, presumably the juror with the OK sign. But you know, we don't know for sure. Oftentimes, we find after jury deliberations are over that we've misinterpreted notes. But it did seem to be clearly 11-to-1 for conviction on at least some counts.
PILGRIM: Well, we're really glad you have the scoreboard because it's very hard to follow this in any kind of normal way. Thanks very much.
TOOBIN: It's not a normal case.
PILGRIM: That's right. Jeffrey Toobin, thanks.
A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll question concerning the safety of our food. And the question is, "Would you support an increase in the FDA budget to inspect more imported food?" Yes or no. Cast your vote, cnn.com/lou. We will bring you the results a little bit later right here.
And when we return, a generous stranger solves a big dilemma for a U.S. soldier wounded in Iraq. We'll tell you how. Plus: A legal battle that spanned more than decades is finally over for Disney. And we'll have that story in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now a look at tonight's news in brief. The Navy is investigating the crash of an F-14 Tomcat three miles off the coast of San Diego today. The two crewmen aboard the plane were rescued after ejecting safely. The Navy says the Tomcat was performing a flight operation with a carrier when it crashed.
Ireland today became the first country to ban smoking in restaurants, bars and workplaces. Those who break the law could face fines of more than $3,000. Similar bans have been introduced in Los Angeles and also New York state.
And more record gas prices, no end in sight. Gas prices have reached a fifth straight record for the AAA survey. It found the most expensive gas is in California and the cheapest is in Oklahoma. On Wall Street, stocks opened the week with a rally. The Dow jumped 116 points. The NASDAQ rose 32. And the S&P gained 14. And Christine Romans is here with the market -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, another big rally on light volume in what continues to be a volatile market. The NASDAQ now up 5 percent in four days, after it fell 5 percent in four days. Optimism for earnings and cooling crude prices got the credit today. But pain at the pump continues. The Energy Department forecasts gasoline prices will move even higher during the upcoming driving season. It expects $1.83 a gallon on average in April. At the same time, Goldman Sachs today estimated higher oil prices will trim .3 off G-7 growth. Goldman says tax cuts have muted the pain so far this year, but in the second half, Goldman says, watch out.
PILGRIM: Stocks rallied, but Tyson Foods fell 3 percent. What was going on there?
ROMANS: A formal probe by the Securities and Exchange Commission into some payments made to Tyco -- or, sorry, Tyson executives, Tyson's chairman, other directors and officers. Tyson said it is cooperating. It would not disclose how large those payments are,and it said the matter has been investigated by its own independent directors on its board, who found this particular issue immaterial. But a formal probe by the Securities and Exchange Commission, and investors did not look kindly on that today.
PILGRIM: Tough day. All right, thanks very much, Christine.
Well, a 13-year legal battle has ended over the merchandising rights of Winnie-the-Pooh. A California superior court judge today threw out a lawsuit against Walt Disney claiming unpaid royalties for the use of the Pooh characters in videotapes, DVDs and computer software. Disney's motion to dismiss alleged that the owner of the character's rights, Steven Schlessinger (ph), Inc., of -- alleged they stole evidence in the case. Schlessinger has denied those claims. His company plans to appeal.
And now for a look at some of your thoughts on "Exporting America." And Steve Warnek of Wayne, New Jersey, says, "Outsourcing may be good for American business, but it's not good for the workers who live here, buy the products and pay the taxes. Outsourcing only lines the pockets of overpriced CEOs.
Robert Townsend of Sioux City, Iowa -- "We cannot blame companies for taking advantage of off-shore prices. We can, however, blame our lawmakers for structuring free trade on a less than level playing field."
"And how can there be free trade with countries that have little money to make reciprocal purchases? It's like going into business with someone who has no money. It's clear how the money must flow."
Doug Marsden of Bloomfield, New Jersey, says, "Outsourcing jobs is good for those who make money at the expense of their fellow countrymen. These capitalists are working hard to plunder the very thing that makes them what they are, American."
Josh Arnold of Los Angeles -- "I have watched your show with interest over the past few months. I used to be a committed free trader, but I think you make a compelling case that the United States needs to stop rewarding companies that send work overseas."
We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@cnn.com.
The National Association of Manufacturers represents 14,000 companies, and many of those companies are small and mid-size firms struggling to compete as more work is exported to cheap foreign labor markets. Jerry Jasinowski is the president and CEO of the National Association of Manufacturers, and he joins me tonight from our Washington bureau.
Thanks very much for joining us.
JERRY JASINOWSKI, PRES. & CEO, NATIONAL ASSN. OF MANUFACTURERS: Good evening.
PILGRIM: You know, I have to say, your membership is somewhat being hurt by the outsourcing phenomenon. How do you reconcile the fact that you're not anti-outsourcing with the fact that many of your members may be?
JASINOWSKI: Gee, I think that you're exaggerating the outsourcing problem, both for manufacturing and for workers. I think that most outsourcing is actually done, 90 percent of it, to sell products abroad. And I think only 10 percent of it comes back here. And it's probably, I think, 5 percent of the job loss we've seen over the last three years. If you really want to look at the job loss, you've got to look at the costs in this country. You've got to look at enforcement of trade issues, the value of the dollar, the recession. So I think it's blown way out of proportion.
PILGRIM: Let me ask you this. You say 10 percent comes back into the country. So if that 10 percent is produced overseas and then is sold overseas, you're OK with that phenomenon?
JASINOWSKI: Oh, I think that's exactly right. And that's part of where I think you're really off, in terms of the emphasis on outsourcing. Most companies were taught years ago to go abroad and compete, and we now have $2 trillion of American production overseas in other countries because the advantage is to sell to where your customer is. And those operations bring back profits and jobs and technology and market shares. So the strength of American industry is partly because one fifth of the size of our economy is now all around the world. And I don't know why you keep saying that that's a bad thing for America because it's good for companies and it's good for workers.
PILGRIM: Well, let me just ask you, is it not better to produce here and export, in the classic sense of the term? Because that, after all...
JASINOWSKI: You know... PILGRIM: ... does keep American jobs at home.
JASINOWSKI: You know, that's really not quite right. First of all, $2 trillion a year are produced off-shore, 90 percent of which is sold off-shore. We export -- which is terribly important, and I'm glad you brought it up -- about $70 billion, and that's a very big part of our GDP growth. So it's in some ways a more powerful stimulus to GDP and to jobs. But I think that that's where the emphasis should be, it's on exporting. I think the outsourcing part of this is a small part. The really important part is exporting American products. And there I agree with you entirely, it's very important and we ought to do everything we can to encourage that.
PILGRIM: You know, it has turned into a huge campaign issue, and is, in some ways, being politicized to the advantage of certain people who argue certain arguments. Last week, we had John Kerry, however, proposing in his plan a certain rejiggering of tax laws to try to take away the advantages for companies to produce overseas. Is that not a fair solution?
HOLLINGS: You know, I first of all want to congratulate Senator Kerry for calling for a corporate tax cut. That was, I think, big news, and it helps offset the disadvantage in taxes that the U.S. has abroad. I think that the elimination of deferral (ph) is not a very important proposal. It's not very large. It's $12 billion. So he's really, unfortunately, taking away with one hand what he gives with the others.
And deferral is -- when you've got $2 trillion worth of production abroad, he says he would leave it for companies if you sell in the country where you produce, but he would take it away if you come back to the United States, which is only 10 percent of what is produced abroad. So I don't think it's going to have a very big impact. And it's awfully complicated.
PILGRIM: Well, it certainly may not, in your mind, have a big impact, but it certainly is a subject of great debate in this campaign. And we all look forward to this hashing out the issue.
HOLLINGS: Oh, I think that it is a great issue for the campaign, but we've got to keep track of the fact that we do have some important policy issues here, including the fact that globalization is not per se bad. It's important to remember that.
PILGRIM: All right. We have to end on that note. Thank you very much for joining us. Jerry Jasinowski, thank you very much.
HOLLINGS: Thank you.
PILGRIM: A reminder to check our Web site for the complete list of companies we've confirmed to be "Exporting America," cnn.com/lou.
And still to come: A U.S. soldier wounded in Iraq and his wife receive a token of gratitude from someone they don't even know. We'll have that inspiring story when we continue in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll question: 88 percent of you would support an increase in the FDA budget to inspect more imported food and 12 percent would not.
Finally tonight, a remarkable story of good will that changed the lives of an injured soldier and his family. Thanks to the hard work and generosity of complete strangers, the Tuller family will no longer have trouble getting around their temporary hometown. Lisa Sylvester has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To say that Staff Sergeant Dustin Tuller has been through a lot is an understatement. Two days before Christmas, he came under heavy fire in Iraq. He has had 38 surgeries and lost both legs.
SGT. DUSTIN TULLER, WOUNDED SOLDIER: ... knowing that people care, that a lot of people didn't forget about the soldiers that are going over there.
SYLVESTER: Dustin and his wife, Alisha, are from Florida. They needed a way to get around Washington while Dustin recovers at Walter Reed Medical Center. But the family van, which was still in Florida, had 178,000 miles on it and wouldn't start. So the Enlisted Association of the National Guard entered the picture and asked a car dealer to fix the van.
MICHAEL KLINE, ENLISTED ASSN. OF THE NATIONAL GUARD: Tommy Thomas Chevrolet in Panama City got involved. They were going to attempt to make repairs to the vehicle. The repairs that were needed, though, were quite expensive. They decided that they were going to get a better vehicle for the Tuller family.
ALISHA TULLER, DUSTIN'S WIFE: It was shocking. It was very courteous for them to do that. You know, they didn't have to, and they did.
SYLVESTER: Disbelief at first, ecstatic when the new van arrived. Everyone got something out of it, from the car dealer in Florida...
BILL CRAMER, OWNER, TOMMY THOMAS CHEVROLET: It's the very least that we feel that we could do to try to make his situation here at home as comfortable as possible.
SYLVESTER: ... to the trucking company, Schneider International, that volunteered to transport the van for free.
JIM MOYLAN, SCHNEIDER INTERNATIONAL: Great honor. Best load I'll probably ever pull in my career.
SYLVESTER: And the Tullers. A new family car for their four children, and the bigger gift, the outpouring of support from strangers who just want to help. Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: That's our show for tonight. Thanks for being with us. Tomorrow, Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur on the exporting of American jobs and how she proposes to stop it. And Kelly Gay of KnowledgeStorm surveyed 2,000 executives on outsourcing. The results are stunning, and she will share them with us all.
For all of us here, good night from New York. Anderson Cooper is next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 29, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, GUEST HOST: Tonight, the White House stands firm. Condoleezza Rice says she will not give public testimony to the 9/11 Commission. But officials search for a compromise.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't believe Dr. Rice has anything to hide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Answers tonight, after the worst friendly-fire incident in the war in Iraq, why 10 Marines died. We'll have a report from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for calling Wyndham reservations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: The battle to stop the export of American call center jobs to cheap overseas labor markets. I will talk with Senator Fritz Hollings about his new bill to protect American jobs. I will also talk with Jerry Jasinowski, president of the National of Association of Manufacturers.
And a dramatic increase in fruit and vegetable imports; food safety inspectors under strain. We will have a special report.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Monday, March 29. Sitting in for Lou Dobbs for an hour of news, debate and opinion, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening. Tonight the White House insists that National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice will not give public testimony under oath to the 9/11 Commission. But White House officials and members of the commission are looking for a compromise.
Senior White House correspondent John King reports -- John.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Kitty, even more political pressure on this White House tonight for Dr. Rice to testify in public under oath. As you've noted, the White House continues to say that will not happen. Mr. Bush today, trying to highlight his leadership in the war on terrorism at a time we are seeing mounting evidence, this whole controversy about the 9/11 Commission and former counter-terrorism czar, Richard Clarke's allegations that Mr. Bush did not pay close attention to terrorism before 9/11, is having a dramatic political impact.
Look at our new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll. Seventy percent of the American people say they are very closely or somewhat closely following Mr. Clarke's allegation. Now, the White House says that allegation is not true. They say Richard Clarke said very different things when he was in the government and is trying to sell a book now. And also a key part of the administration's strategy is to hope that come November, voters pay not attention to what the president did before 9/11, but to what he did after.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've seen calm when calm was needed, a decisive action when action was required. I'm honored to serve at his side and I can say with great pride that this nation is stronger and more secure because George W. Bush is president of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: But that poll also shows mounting questions about the president's leadership in war on terrorism and the whole controversy now, not only about Clarke's allegation, that the president ignored the warnings, but also Dr. Rice's refusal to testify.
Democratic pollster, Peter Hart, saying earlier today he believes this president has a serious credibility problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER HART, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: I think the bottom line is, it's going to be a major challenge to the president's credibility. Because the American public starts to connect the dots. Being told one thing about the weapons of mass destruction, another thing about 9/11, a third thing about the number of jobs that are being created. A fourth thing, about prescription drugs. And they start to say, what is going on here. Where is the truth?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Now, Senate Democrats again putting pressure on the White House to have Dr. Rice testify publicly. Some Senate Democrats say tomorrow they will bring a resolution to the floor of the Senate, demanding that she testify under oath. Kitty, the White House line remains that she will meet with the commission in private. She also wants to meet with some families of 9/11 victims. And they're trying to work out a compromise so she takes questions from the commission in private, but that at least some of her answers are later included in the final report put on the public record -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, John King.
The latest opinion poll says voters are divided along party lines in their views on the president's policies on the war on terror.
Senior political analyst Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Who do people believe, Richard Clarke or the Bush administration? And the answer is a tie. Forty-six percent of Americans said they're more likely to believe the Bush administration, while 44 percent are more likely to believe Clarke. Republican leaders have attacked Clarke's credibility.
SEN. BILL FRIST (R-TN), MAJORITY LEADER: It is one thing for Mr. Clark to dissemble in front of the media, in front of the press. But if he lied under oath to the United States Congress, it's a far, far more serious matter.
SCHNEIDER: Those attacks have rallied the GOP faithful. While 3/4 of Democrats and over 50 percent of Independents say they believe Clarke, Republicans are solidly behind their president, 83 percent. Clarke's charges have evoked an intensely partisan response. Americans are divided over President Bush. They're divided over Clarke's credibility and they're divided over Clarke's allegations, because they deal with Iraq.
RICHARD CLARKE, FMR. COUNTERTERRORISM CHIEF: By invading Iraq, the president of the United States has greatly undermined the war on terrorism.
SCHNEIDER: Is Iraq part of the war on terrorism? Or an entirely separate military action as Clarke suggests? Americans are split along party lines.
Has the controversy damaged President Bush's standings for re- election? Three weeks ago John Kerry was leading President Bush 52 to 44 percent among likely voters. And now, Bush has pulled ahead, 51 to 47 percent. No evidence of damage to the president.
What we do find evidence of is damage to Kerry. The Bush campaign has set out to define Kerry in the voters' minds, and it looks like it's having an impact.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Since February, when it became clear that Kerry would be the Democratic candidate, overall opinion of John Kerry has become more negative. Growing numbers of Americans are calling Kerry too liberal. The White House campaign to discredit John Kerry and Richard Clarke has sharpened the partisan divide -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Bill Schneider. Thanks, Bill.
Joining me now is Ron Brownstein. He's a political columnist with the "Los Angeles Times," and also a CNN political analyst.
And thanks very much for joining us, Ron.
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Hi, Kitty.
PILGRIM: You know, there is a huge outcry for transparency in the Condoleezza Rice issue, and yet it is an ongoing policy matter. So there's this -- these two sides of this issue. How do you reconcile that?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, William Cohen was on recently, a few minutes ago on CNN, also pointing out that they do have a legal case to make against her testifying in open session. On the other hand, the politics of it are very difficult historically for an administration to argue, especially on something of this magnitude, that the American people should not hear from one of the senior policymakers is always a very tough case to make.
The natural instinct of most voters, I think, is to believe they have something to hide. Whether they do or not. I mean she has certainly been out on television a lot making her case. I think it's hard for people to understand why she wouldn't be willing to do so in front of the congressional commission investigating the worst tragedy on American soil.
PILGRIM: You know, they accuse the White House of over-lawyering this. Yet it does set a precedent, doesn't it?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Look, I mean I think there is clearly that issue. They do not want to establish a president -- precedent of the national security adviser. They're very tough on executive privilege in general, and on the flow of information more broadly than that. Everything from the Freedom of Information Act to the Cheney Commission on Energy.
But look, a rule in Washington is that when you get caught up in a process story, it's usually a bad place to be; because it provides a very easy hook for the press to keep the story alive day after day, after day. And I think they're going to have to find some kind of compromise to allow them to move on to their substantive rebuttal.
PILGRIM: You know, I'm quite honestly astonished how long this story has been going. And it's become more about Condoleezza Rice than about the actual issue. Do you see any end to this? And what would you advise the White House to do, to stop this?
BROWNSTEIN: It's not my job to advise the White House. But I agree with you that it is going go on. Look, first, it's going to go on for a while because it's not just about Richard Clarke and Condoleezza Rice. There is this separate process of the congressional commission going on. They are holding hearings that were very high profile last week. They put out four staff reports in which there was considerable echoing of some of the concerns that Clark raised from other people in the administration, including officials at the CIA and the Pentagon.
They have a report that is due out to the Congress and the country on July 26. Which happens to be the first day of the Democratic convention this summer. So, these issues are not going away. We're going to continue to debate them. You saw in your poll that the president's overall approval rating has held strong. In fact, moved up over the last few weeks. But on terrorism specifically, it did decline as it did in the "Newsweek" poll released over the weekend.
It has to be a concern over the White House because that is the core of his political strength, I believe, at this point; the sense that he's provided strong leadership in the war against terror.
PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much. Ron Brownstein, thanks.
BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Vice President Dick Cheney today focused on the economy and he accused Senator John Kerry of planning huge tax increases to pay for his spending proposals. Now, the Kerry campaign said the vice president's charges were, quote, "misleading, false and fabricated," unquote. Meanwhile, Senator Kerry spent the day raising much-needed cash for his campaign.
Bob Franken reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fine.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He's out in California today. John Kerry is combining campaign appearances with events that are sorely needed to provide the fuel for the campaign. Money. This appearance is being combined with the beginnings of a 20-state fund raising tour. It will come complete with Hollywood glitter. Appearances by Ben Affleck and Leonardo DiCaprio, all aimed at accumulating the $80 million Kerry's campaign believes it needs to take on the other side, which is visibly involved in taking him on.
CHENEY: It turns out John Kerry has voted in the Senate at least 350 times for higher taxes. That averages to one vote for higher taxes every three weeks for almost two decades.
FRANKEN: The Kerry campaign shot back. Like Bush, Cheney has no credibility to lecture anyone on the economy.
KERRY: With each attack, this administration is building up the truth deficit, to go along with the jobs deficit, and the fiscal deficit, and their international, intelligence gathering, credibility deficit.
FRANKEN: Kerry had just returned to the campaign after vacation. But now he's planning to take some sick days. Actually rehab days after some elective shoulder surgery Wednesday.
(END VIDEOTAPE) FRANKEN: And because of the surgery, his campaign has decided it's very important that it preempts any questions about Kerry's health, because it was just last year that he had surgery to remove an early-stage, prostate organ in his body. The doctor for Kerry, his long-time doctor came out with a letter this afternoon saying he continues to be in very good health.
Kerry, of course, likes to show himself in various physical situations. His doctor saying that is because he is particularly fit, particularly for a man of 60 years old -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Bob Franken. Thanks, Bob.
Still to come, 10 U.S. Marines were killed in the worst friendly fire incident in the war in Iraq. And tonight the Pentagon explains why.
Plus, Americans are eating more imported food than ever before. We'll have a special report on the safety of our food supplies.
And the fight to keep American jobs in this country. I will talk with Senator Fritz Hollings; he says it's time to scrap free trade agreements.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Insurgents today killed an American soldier in Iraq. A bomb exploded near a military convoy, about 10 miles from the town of Fallujah west of Baghdad. In Basra, British soldiers today, evicted Iraqis occupying a government building. One Iraqi grabbed a soldier's rifle. The troops quickly subdued the Iraqi and recovered the weapon. And in Baghdad, thousands of Iraqis protested against the closure of a newspaper. The paper is published by the followers of a cleric who is critical of the United States. Officials said the newspaper was inciting violence against coalition troops.
The Pentagon has completed an investigation into the worst friendly-fire incident during the Iraq war. Ten U.S. Marines were killed when Air Force planes attacked their positions. Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre reports -- Jamie.
JAIME MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, this was on March 23, the deadliest day of combat in Iraq. And U.S. Marines were in a fierce battle at Nasiriyah, trying to secure a key supply route to the north. They were engaging enemy forces, when suddenly they were attacked by U.S. Air Force A-10 fighter jets from above by mistake, as it was recounted to CNN by the commander of Charlie Company, a few months after the fact.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. DAN WITTNAM, CMDR., CHARLIE COMPANY: To be honest with you, the first thought that went through my mind was, thank God an A- 10 is on station. Holy cow. Then the earth went black. From the dirt being kicked up. And a feeling of absolute utter horror. And disbelief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Now, investigators from the U.S. -- investigators from the U.S. Central Command have faulted a Marine who was far from the action. A Marine captain who called in the A-10 strikes unaware that Charlie Company had pushed ahead of his unit and was engaging the enemy. Two A-10s made multiple passes over the group of vehicles thinking they were enemy vehicles, dropping bombs, firing missiles; even strafing them with their tank-busting guns that fired depleted uranium shells.
Now, as many as 10 Marines were killed; but because 18 Marines were killed in this combat situation, and some of them had wounds both from the depleted uranium shells and from enemy fire, they can't say for sure how many were killed by friendly fire. They believe it was about 10, with three others wounded.
That's made it very difficult for some of the families to adjust to, how long -- exactly what happened to their loved ones. But they all were delivered reports over the weekend.
Now, some in the Marines are questioning why -- some of the things about the report, why all the blame is going on the Marine captain and none on the Air Force pilot. Among the questions, "why weren't the pilots better trained to spot friendly vehicles?" They didn't know they were friendly vehicles. "Why didn't they see the cease-fire flares that the Marines fired in desperation to try to get them to stop firing?"
And the cockpit videotapes that would have recorded the incident were apparently recorded over. And so that was hampering the investigation as well.
Now, this Marine captain, who called these strikes in by mistake, will face some disciplinary action. Or could face disciplinary action for violating a standing order that required him to get a higher level of authorization before ordering those strikes, something he did not do -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Jamie, what kind of disciplinary action might he face?
MCINTYRE: Well, in theory, he could be court-martialed. Although the investigators note that he, one, fully cooperated with the investigation, was not evasive at all. And also served very admirably and bravely after the mistake was made in staying with his unit and trying to help the Marines who were hurt. So that will act in his favor. Also, his commanding officer gave him the OK to send this -- to call in these air strikes as well. So it's likely he might fight some administrative action, but no criminal charges.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much Jamie McIntyre
A report on the bombing of the U.N.'s headquarters in Baghdad last August was strongly criticized by U.N. officials. Twenty-two people were killed in that attack, including the U.N.'s top official in Iraq. Investigators said the United Nations went into Baghdad without taking proper security precautions.
Senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth reports -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, the second scathing report on the U.N.'s failure to protect its own in Baghdad leading to that August 19 bombing. Today the other shoe, discipline here at the U.N., dropped. The report says the United Nations only has itself to blame for a failure to protect its Baghdad compound last August, and the U.N. is pointing fingers at some of its own people. Accountability not often practiced in the bureaucratic U.N. complex.
An independent panel concluded senior U.N. political and security officials, in Baghdad and New York, were under an illusion based on the do-good image of the organization.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GERALD WALZER, CHMN., IRAQ ACCOUNTABILITY PANEL: Senior management was certain that the U.N. was -- wasn't in imminent danger of being a target.
ROTH (voice-over): The report says a proper security assessment mission was never done before the U.N. returned to Iraq as the war wound down. Security management at the U.N. base was called deficient and lacking cohesion. Field security warnings were ignored by U.N. leaders in Baghdad. A high level, Iraq advisory group, based in New York, got poor marks for putting staff at risk by ignoring security dangers. Secretary-General Kofi Annan expressed his disappointment and regret. The groups' leader, Annan's own deputy, Louise Frechette offered to resign.
FRED ECKHARD, U.N. SPOKESMAN: The secretary-general, taking into account the collective nature of the failures attributable to the Steering Group on Iraq as a whole, declined to accept the resignation.
ROTH: Annan asked the U.N.'s chief of security to resign. Tun Myat was described in the report as seemingly oblivious to the developing crisis. And the lead manager of the U.N. mission, Ramiro Lopes da Silva was demoted to the World Food Program.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: But some U.N. insiders and critics say the discipline doesn't go far enough. Five people named, only one fired, considering the death and injury toll there. And the U.N. is going to face security problems if it indeed decides to go back into Iraq later this year -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Richard Roth at the U.N.
President Bush today welcomed seven new countries to NATO. The president held a ceremony at the White House for the prime ministers of the seven countries, all former communist nations. Twenty-six countries are now members of NATO. The alliance was established in 1949 to defend Western Europe from the former Soviet Union. Still to come, the Tyco jury resumes deliberations after the judge denies a mistrial motion. We'll have a live report from Lower Manhattan.
And Americans are eating more and more food produced overseas. We'll tell you why this is putting a strain on several federal agencies and what it could mean for food safety.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Federal agencies responsible for making sure our food supply is safe, they say they're inspecting more food imports than ever. And that's because Americans are eating more foods produced overseas.
Casey Wian reports from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): From common produce, like strawberries arriving from Mexico, to exotic foods like jellied duck eggs from Taiwan; Americans are now eating more imported food than ever, 42 percent more than 20 years ago. Vegetable imports have nearly tripled, while fruit imports have jumped four-fold.
DR. ROBERT BRACKETT, FOOD & DRUG ADMIN.: The American consumers have become accustomed to having fresh products year round from different parts of the world. So we've had to learn how to handle these products. We've had to learn what sort of food safety issues might be associated with them, and of course, make sure that they are safe for our people.
WIAN: Together with the threat of bio-terrorism, it's increasing the pressure on an already strained U.S. food safety net. Imported foods have resulted in recent outbreaks of hepatitis from Mexican green onions. Globalization of food production is also forcing inspectors to be on the lookout for Mad Cow disease and Bird Flu.
CAROLINE SMITH DEWAAL, CTR. FOR SCIENCE IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST: U.S. consumers eat a diet that's about 20 percent imported foods. The bottom line, from the vast increase in imported foods is that a lot less imported food is inspected today than it was 10 years ago.
WIAN: Several federal agencies are responsible for inspecting imported food, including the Food and Drug Administration, the Agriculture Department and Homeland Security. All say they're conducting more inspections than ever.
(on camera): Customs and border protection inspectors look for evidence of bio-terrorism, health and safety problems and trade law violations. In all, they're responsible for enforcing 600 laws from 60 different federal agencies.
(voice-over): Estimates of how much imported food that is actually inspected range from 1 to 5 percent. Government officials say many are low-risk and don't need physical inspections, while technology and intelligence help identify those that do. The FDA wants a $65 million budget increase next year. Only about five million of that is for actual inspections of imported food.
Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: That brings us to the topic of tonight's poll question. Would you support an increase in the FDA budget to inspect more imported food? Yes or no? Cast your vote cnn.com/lou, and we'll bring you the results later in the show.
Still ahead tonight, exporting America. Call centers in India and elsewhere around the globe could be in jeopardy thanks to a trend in corporate hiring. I'll have a special report.
Plus, another bizarre turn of events in the Tyco corporate crime trial. We'll have a live report. And CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin will join us.
And then, an American soldier wounded in Iraq returns home to a very generous surprise.
Those stories and much more ahead, stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now with more news, debate and opinion, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: We've been reporting for more than a year on the hundreds of thousands of American jobs lost to cheaper foreign labor markets. Many of those jobs were in the service industry. And they have migrated to call centers in India and elsewhere overseas. But now, some companies are finding incentives to keep those jobs in America.
Bill Tucker has the report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This may just be the call center of the future, a far cry from this. And it offers businesses, workers and customers a different kind of experience.
GLORIA PRICE, EMPLOYEE, WORKING SOLUTIONS: Thank you for calling Wyndham reservations...
TUCKER: Glenda Price works at home on the phone for a company, Working Solutions, which sells her time and services to companies that have no call center workers, or who need to add to their staff during busy periods. For Gloria, it's a paycheck on her terms.
PRICE: I'm able to make my own schedule now, work as many hours as I would like to work. It gives me more time to spend with my husband and my family.
TUCKER: Wyndham Hotels, a client, is happy, too. It no longer has to hire people during busy times only to fire them after the rush passes.
KIM HOULNE, PRESIDENT, WORKING SOLUTIONS: They're able to scale up when they need to and to scale back down; based on the project, if you will. So they're not having to, you know, ramp up very quickly internally when they don't -- maybe not have the space. They can actually send out to us in a virtual environment. We're able to scale up for them very quickly.
TUCKER: Besides providing efficiency, firms like Working Solutions also provide Wyndham with something an offshore phone center can't.
DAVID MUSSA, VICE PRESIDENT, WYNDHAM INTERNATIONAL: Well, they bring the American experience actually. I can talk to any of the Working Solutions agents and they understand what it is to go to Disneyland.
TUCKER: Even among companies where the call center is kept internal, these centralizing new call center to the home is turning up some interesting advantages.
DAVID NEELEMAN, CEO, JETBLUE: Attrition levels are very low, compared to industry standards. And it's just a great way to do business. And you know, we have 100 percent of our people on the phones, who take reservations, are in their homes.
TUCKER: The way Jetblue deals with slow periods is to allow workers to sign up for voluntary time off. It's unpaid, but it allows workers the flexibility they find so appealing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Management of these new models is made simple by the same technology that makes these models possible, and that allows the calls to are tracked and monitored remotely, Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right. Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
Well, a new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll finds that the exporting of American jobs is playing a big role in the presidential campaign. More than 80 percent of Americans surveyed say keeping U.S. jobs from going to other countries will be important in deciding their vote for president.
My next guest has introduced a bill in Congress that would keep American jobs in this country. Senator Fritz Hollings knows firsthand the impact of the exporting of America. His home state of South Carolina has lost more than 60,000 textile jobs since the North American Free Trade Agreement went into effect. And Senator Hollings joins me now from Capitol Hill.
And thanks very much for joining me. SEN. FRITZ HOLLINGS (D-SC), COMMERCE COMMITTEE, BUDGET COMMITTEE: Thank you, Kitty.
PILGRIM: You know, it's -- you have likened GATT and NAFTA to foreign aid. You basically said no free trade agreements should be in effect. This seems fairly intense. Why do you say that? Nothing at all?
HOLLINGS: No. What we're trying to do is not have a half-free trade agreement. You see, our competitors, they have restrictions. We give them free access. And what I'm trying to do is, like I said about world peace, you don't get that by just waving the white flag of surrender, you've got to fight for it. And the same with free trade. You've got to be able to compete. You've got to raise a barrier to remove a barrier. So I'm not against free trade, I'm trying to obtain free trade, to tell you the truth. And that isn't what we've had.
PILGRIM: You're calling for a level playing field. But you say, in effect, some of these agreements just lower America's standard of living. What would you like to see done to make it more of a level playing field?
HOLLINGS: Well, in order to do this, you've got to go about and understand how important that manufacture is to our economy. In other words, the economy of the United States is like a three-legged stool. You've got the one leg of our values unquestioned, the second leg of our military power, which is unquestioned, but the economic leg has been fractured in the cold war, whereby we were trying to spread capitalism to defeat communism with the Marshall plan. It's worked. But we more or less gave away the store. Now we've got to compete, and as you indicate, try to protect our standard of living.
So the first order of business is to organize in a comprehensive way, reorganize, for example, the Department of Commerce into the Department of Trade and Commerce and stop sponsoring the export of jobs, like the secretary did in January. They were up there in New York with the Chinese, trying to export the jobs. What we've got to do is change that Department of Commerce into trying to create the jobs and maintain the jobs that we have in this country.
Second, we need to get about enforcement. We need an attorney general in charge of enforcement over in the Justice Department. Then we've got to go to the financing. Stop the financing of the exportation of jobs, the production overseas. On the contrary, let's, by gosh, finance domestic production, give them a tax break. Otherwise, you need about 1,000 custom agents to stop these transshipments of unregulated products coming into the country.
And most of all, we've got to start with the Department of Commerce making up a list of those things important to our national security. We couldn't go to war in Desert Storm until we got the flat panel displays from Japan, and that shouldn't ever happen again. We don't have to wait up two months. We've got to have the necessary military equipment necessary to our national security.
PILGRIM: In your mind, we're risking our national security by exporting so much of this production overseas.
HOLLINGS: Oh, there isn't any question about it. Akio Morita said years ago, the head of Sony -- he said that world power that loses its manufacturing capacity will cease to be a world power.
PILGRIM: In effect, though, the argument against keeping some of these jobs here is that they're such low-level jobs. Your argument seems to negate that because you're saying let's keep high-tech and important jobs in the country.
HOLLINGS: Not only high-tech, important jobs, what you call a textile job. Look, we never made an automobile in our lives in South Carolina, but we got BMW there. And after training with our technical training centers, we produce a better automobile than they do in Munich. But is that a high-tech or a low-tech job? Is textiles high- tech or low-tech? We need all of these jobs fundamental to our national security.
I had a hearing under President Kennedy that found, next to steel, textiles was second most important to our national security. At that time, 40 years ago, we couldn't send them to war in a Japanese uniform.
PILGRIM: Very interesting point. Thank you very much for joining us. Wish we had more time. Senator Fritz Hollings, thank you.
HOLLINGS: Yes. Thank you.
PILGRIM: Tonight's thought on globalization -- and here it is -- "The 20th century has been characterized by three developments of great political importance: the growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy." Those words from social scientist Alex Carey.
A senior White House official had an unwelcome visit Sunday from hundreds of protesters at his Washington home. Karl Rove called the police after immigrant rights activists began pounding on his door and windows. Now, the group is calling for a legal status for illegal aliens who graduate high school. Rove eventually agreed to meet with two of the protest leaders in his garage. And soon after, he escorted them out of his garage and asked them to leave his property.
Coming up: a bizarre twist in the multi-million-dollar fraud case of two former Tyco executives. We'll have the latest on that. And a long legal battle ends for Disney over Winnie-the-Pooh. We'll have that story. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The judge in the trial of former Tyco executives Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz today ordered the jury to resume deliberations. The judge rejected defense motions for a mistrial after a juror was thought to give the OK sign in the direction of the defense last week. Mary Snow is at the New York state supreme courthouse -- Mary.
MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, when the day started, it seemed that that apparent hand signal could derail the entire six- month trial. And while it came close, it did not. The defense asked for a mistrial, citing the fact that at least two newspapers identified the juror by name and also described her as being a hold- out juror. The judge met with the juror privately and emerged from that meeting saying that there was nothing to prohibit her from deliberating in good faith, and also the fact that he said she was an independent woman. He denied the request for a mistrial and instructed the jury to continue their deliberations.
And it appeared that the jurors put their problems behind them, problems that emerged last Thursday, when the atmosphere was described as "poisonous." Jurors sent out several notes asking for clarification on some charges and exhibits. And it seems that they were continuing progress, deliberating 32 counts against the former top executives at Tyco, Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Swartz. Both stand accused of looting the company of $600 million. This was day eight of deliberations without a verdict -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: All right, thanks very much, Mary Snow.
Joining me now is CNN senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. And Jeffrey, I have to say, this has been a wacky trial. I've never heard anything called "poisonous" in the jury room before, and all these weird wrinkles -- flashing the OK sign. It seems a little out of the box.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Poisonous jury deliberations actually aren't all that common. You often hear a lot of loud, angry talk in a jury room. What's so weird about this case is the juror making this gesture, after being instructed, as jurors always are, not to betray favoritism toward one side or the other. Obviously, coming on the hands -- on the heels of last week, where 11 jurors apparently were complaining about this one juror, the judge was really in a pickle.
PILGRIM: And yet he refuses to declare a mistrial. What do you think about that?
TOOBIN: Well, you know, this judge has spent six months on this case, tremendous amount of time. Lots of the taxpayers' money at work. It's understandable, it's appropriate for him to try to hold it together. And he seems to have done the right thing in interviewing the jurors, finding out if she is in any position to throw up her hands and say, I can't deliberate. She apparently could -- said she could, in any case. And then jury deliberations went on fairly normally today. As Mary pointed out, the jury asked for exhibits, asked to hear testimony. So jury deliberations seem to be on track. We'll see whether they actually can reach a verdict. Eight days is a long time.
PILGRIM: Yes. Well, also, there's another odd thing, in that her name was published in the newspapers. That's highly irregular. TOOBIN: Very unusual. Most of us in the news business -- it's more a custom than a law of never using the names of jurors while a jury is out. But here, CNN decided not to use her name, but other news outlets did. And I can understand both perspectives. This woman isn't just any old juror. She behaved in a very peculiar way. She is in a newsworthy case. She engaged in newsworthy behavior. So they named her. But it is a point that if there's a conviction, the defense will argue for -- will raise on appeal that because she was identified, she couldn't be a fair juror.
PILGRIM: This is a 32-count indictment. According to jury notes last week, they seemed to be leaning toward guilty? Is that correct?
TOOBIN: The jurors seem to be indicating at least guilt on some counts, except for the hold-out juror, presumably the juror with the OK sign. But you know, we don't know for sure. Oftentimes, we find after jury deliberations are over that we've misinterpreted notes. But it did seem to be clearly 11-to-1 for conviction on at least some counts.
PILGRIM: Well, we're really glad you have the scoreboard because it's very hard to follow this in any kind of normal way. Thanks very much.
TOOBIN: It's not a normal case.
PILGRIM: That's right. Jeffrey Toobin, thanks.
A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll question concerning the safety of our food. And the question is, "Would you support an increase in the FDA budget to inspect more imported food?" Yes or no. Cast your vote, cnn.com/lou. We will bring you the results a little bit later right here.
And when we return, a generous stranger solves a big dilemma for a U.S. soldier wounded in Iraq. We'll tell you how. Plus: A legal battle that spanned more than decades is finally over for Disney. And we'll have that story in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now a look at tonight's news in brief. The Navy is investigating the crash of an F-14 Tomcat three miles off the coast of San Diego today. The two crewmen aboard the plane were rescued after ejecting safely. The Navy says the Tomcat was performing a flight operation with a carrier when it crashed.
Ireland today became the first country to ban smoking in restaurants, bars and workplaces. Those who break the law could face fines of more than $3,000. Similar bans have been introduced in Los Angeles and also New York state.
And more record gas prices, no end in sight. Gas prices have reached a fifth straight record for the AAA survey. It found the most expensive gas is in California and the cheapest is in Oklahoma. On Wall Street, stocks opened the week with a rally. The Dow jumped 116 points. The NASDAQ rose 32. And the S&P gained 14. And Christine Romans is here with the market -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, another big rally on light volume in what continues to be a volatile market. The NASDAQ now up 5 percent in four days, after it fell 5 percent in four days. Optimism for earnings and cooling crude prices got the credit today. But pain at the pump continues. The Energy Department forecasts gasoline prices will move even higher during the upcoming driving season. It expects $1.83 a gallon on average in April. At the same time, Goldman Sachs today estimated higher oil prices will trim .3 off G-7 growth. Goldman says tax cuts have muted the pain so far this year, but in the second half, Goldman says, watch out.
PILGRIM: Stocks rallied, but Tyson Foods fell 3 percent. What was going on there?
ROMANS: A formal probe by the Securities and Exchange Commission into some payments made to Tyco -- or, sorry, Tyson executives, Tyson's chairman, other directors and officers. Tyson said it is cooperating. It would not disclose how large those payments are,and it said the matter has been investigated by its own independent directors on its board, who found this particular issue immaterial. But a formal probe by the Securities and Exchange Commission, and investors did not look kindly on that today.
PILGRIM: Tough day. All right, thanks very much, Christine.
Well, a 13-year legal battle has ended over the merchandising rights of Winnie-the-Pooh. A California superior court judge today threw out a lawsuit against Walt Disney claiming unpaid royalties for the use of the Pooh characters in videotapes, DVDs and computer software. Disney's motion to dismiss alleged that the owner of the character's rights, Steven Schlessinger (ph), Inc., of -- alleged they stole evidence in the case. Schlessinger has denied those claims. His company plans to appeal.
And now for a look at some of your thoughts on "Exporting America." And Steve Warnek of Wayne, New Jersey, says, "Outsourcing may be good for American business, but it's not good for the workers who live here, buy the products and pay the taxes. Outsourcing only lines the pockets of overpriced CEOs.
Robert Townsend of Sioux City, Iowa -- "We cannot blame companies for taking advantage of off-shore prices. We can, however, blame our lawmakers for structuring free trade on a less than level playing field."
"And how can there be free trade with countries that have little money to make reciprocal purchases? It's like going into business with someone who has no money. It's clear how the money must flow."
Doug Marsden of Bloomfield, New Jersey, says, "Outsourcing jobs is good for those who make money at the expense of their fellow countrymen. These capitalists are working hard to plunder the very thing that makes them what they are, American."
Josh Arnold of Los Angeles -- "I have watched your show with interest over the past few months. I used to be a committed free trader, but I think you make a compelling case that the United States needs to stop rewarding companies that send work overseas."
We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@cnn.com.
The National Association of Manufacturers represents 14,000 companies, and many of those companies are small and mid-size firms struggling to compete as more work is exported to cheap foreign labor markets. Jerry Jasinowski is the president and CEO of the National Association of Manufacturers, and he joins me tonight from our Washington bureau.
Thanks very much for joining us.
JERRY JASINOWSKI, PRES. & CEO, NATIONAL ASSN. OF MANUFACTURERS: Good evening.
PILGRIM: You know, I have to say, your membership is somewhat being hurt by the outsourcing phenomenon. How do you reconcile the fact that you're not anti-outsourcing with the fact that many of your members may be?
JASINOWSKI: Gee, I think that you're exaggerating the outsourcing problem, both for manufacturing and for workers. I think that most outsourcing is actually done, 90 percent of it, to sell products abroad. And I think only 10 percent of it comes back here. And it's probably, I think, 5 percent of the job loss we've seen over the last three years. If you really want to look at the job loss, you've got to look at the costs in this country. You've got to look at enforcement of trade issues, the value of the dollar, the recession. So I think it's blown way out of proportion.
PILGRIM: Let me ask you this. You say 10 percent comes back into the country. So if that 10 percent is produced overseas and then is sold overseas, you're OK with that phenomenon?
JASINOWSKI: Oh, I think that's exactly right. And that's part of where I think you're really off, in terms of the emphasis on outsourcing. Most companies were taught years ago to go abroad and compete, and we now have $2 trillion of American production overseas in other countries because the advantage is to sell to where your customer is. And those operations bring back profits and jobs and technology and market shares. So the strength of American industry is partly because one fifth of the size of our economy is now all around the world. And I don't know why you keep saying that that's a bad thing for America because it's good for companies and it's good for workers.
PILGRIM: Well, let me just ask you, is it not better to produce here and export, in the classic sense of the term? Because that, after all...
JASINOWSKI: You know... PILGRIM: ... does keep American jobs at home.
JASINOWSKI: You know, that's really not quite right. First of all, $2 trillion a year are produced off-shore, 90 percent of which is sold off-shore. We export -- which is terribly important, and I'm glad you brought it up -- about $70 billion, and that's a very big part of our GDP growth. So it's in some ways a more powerful stimulus to GDP and to jobs. But I think that that's where the emphasis should be, it's on exporting. I think the outsourcing part of this is a small part. The really important part is exporting American products. And there I agree with you entirely, it's very important and we ought to do everything we can to encourage that.
PILGRIM: You know, it has turned into a huge campaign issue, and is, in some ways, being politicized to the advantage of certain people who argue certain arguments. Last week, we had John Kerry, however, proposing in his plan a certain rejiggering of tax laws to try to take away the advantages for companies to produce overseas. Is that not a fair solution?
HOLLINGS: You know, I first of all want to congratulate Senator Kerry for calling for a corporate tax cut. That was, I think, big news, and it helps offset the disadvantage in taxes that the U.S. has abroad. I think that the elimination of deferral (ph) is not a very important proposal. It's not very large. It's $12 billion. So he's really, unfortunately, taking away with one hand what he gives with the others.
And deferral is -- when you've got $2 trillion worth of production abroad, he says he would leave it for companies if you sell in the country where you produce, but he would take it away if you come back to the United States, which is only 10 percent of what is produced abroad. So I don't think it's going to have a very big impact. And it's awfully complicated.
PILGRIM: Well, it certainly may not, in your mind, have a big impact, but it certainly is a subject of great debate in this campaign. And we all look forward to this hashing out the issue.
HOLLINGS: Oh, I think that it is a great issue for the campaign, but we've got to keep track of the fact that we do have some important policy issues here, including the fact that globalization is not per se bad. It's important to remember that.
PILGRIM: All right. We have to end on that note. Thank you very much for joining us. Jerry Jasinowski, thank you very much.
HOLLINGS: Thank you.
PILGRIM: A reminder to check our Web site for the complete list of companies we've confirmed to be "Exporting America," cnn.com/lou.
And still to come: A U.S. soldier wounded in Iraq and his wife receive a token of gratitude from someone they don't even know. We'll have that inspiring story when we continue in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll question: 88 percent of you would support an increase in the FDA budget to inspect more imported food and 12 percent would not.
Finally tonight, a remarkable story of good will that changed the lives of an injured soldier and his family. Thanks to the hard work and generosity of complete strangers, the Tuller family will no longer have trouble getting around their temporary hometown. Lisa Sylvester has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To say that Staff Sergeant Dustin Tuller has been through a lot is an understatement. Two days before Christmas, he came under heavy fire in Iraq. He has had 38 surgeries and lost both legs.
SGT. DUSTIN TULLER, WOUNDED SOLDIER: ... knowing that people care, that a lot of people didn't forget about the soldiers that are going over there.
SYLVESTER: Dustin and his wife, Alisha, are from Florida. They needed a way to get around Washington while Dustin recovers at Walter Reed Medical Center. But the family van, which was still in Florida, had 178,000 miles on it and wouldn't start. So the Enlisted Association of the National Guard entered the picture and asked a car dealer to fix the van.
MICHAEL KLINE, ENLISTED ASSN. OF THE NATIONAL GUARD: Tommy Thomas Chevrolet in Panama City got involved. They were going to attempt to make repairs to the vehicle. The repairs that were needed, though, were quite expensive. They decided that they were going to get a better vehicle for the Tuller family.
ALISHA TULLER, DUSTIN'S WIFE: It was shocking. It was very courteous for them to do that. You know, they didn't have to, and they did.
SYLVESTER: Disbelief at first, ecstatic when the new van arrived. Everyone got something out of it, from the car dealer in Florida...
BILL CRAMER, OWNER, TOMMY THOMAS CHEVROLET: It's the very least that we feel that we could do to try to make his situation here at home as comfortable as possible.
SYLVESTER: ... to the trucking company, Schneider International, that volunteered to transport the van for free.
JIM MOYLAN, SCHNEIDER INTERNATIONAL: Great honor. Best load I'll probably ever pull in my career.
SYLVESTER: And the Tullers. A new family car for their four children, and the bigger gift, the outpouring of support from strangers who just want to help. Lisa Sylvester, CNN, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: That's our show for tonight. Thanks for being with us. Tomorrow, Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur on the exporting of American jobs and how she proposes to stop it. And Kelly Gay of KnowledgeStorm surveyed 2,000 executives on outsourcing. The results are stunning, and she will share them with us all.
For all of us here, good night from New York. Anderson Cooper is next.
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