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American Morning
Rice Defends Stance on Testimony in Interview; U.S. Soldiers Shut Down Muslim Paper
Aired March 29, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Is the pressure getting more intense for Condoleezza Rice? Her answer to 9/11 critics demanding she testify in public.
Also, a furious response from Shi'ite Muslims in Iraq when coalition forces decide their newspaper is crossing the line.
And the grand jury in the Michael Jackson case now getting to work. A secret location and a key advantage for prosecutors.
All ahead this morning on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, welcome everybody.
Other stories that we're following this morning, a huge day in the Tyco trial. Jurors are back in court after taking the weekend to cool down.
Andy Serwer, Jeff Toobin waiting in the wings to talk about the real possibilities of a mistrial.
Of course, word that some people saw one juror make the OK sign to the defense team. We'll see what the fallout of that will be.
HEMMER: Wonder what it all means, too.
Also the man who may have gotten away with murder, then he saw "The Passion of The Christ."
We'll talk to a Texas sheriff about a bizarre confession in that case that had plenty of other twists along the way, so we'll get to it also on a Monday.
O'BRIEN: And Mr. Cafferty is back after his long weekend.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I took a long day.
O'BRIEN: I'm good.
CAFFERTY: One day. I took a day.
O'BRIEN: We missed you that much.
CAFFERTY: How long are you going to be gone later this week and next week?
O'BRIEN: I'm out Thursday and Friday.
CAFFERTY: Like a week and a half, right?
O'BRIEN: Were you thinking about us the whole time?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
One of the marquee names in sports threatening to skip the Olympic Games in Athens this summer because of the fear of terrorism.
You were here all by yourself Friday, weren't you?
O'BRIEN: I know -- well, Miles was helping out, but yes. I missed you terribly.
CAFFERTY: People writing in wondering if you and Miles are married.
O'BRIEN: I know, they always do. People -- when I worked at NBC they thought I was married to Conan O'Brien.
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: You mean you're not?
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to our top stories this morning.
Three courtrooms across the U.S. are challenging the new ban on some late term abortions, which some critics call partial birth abortions.
Supporters argue that these procedures are sometimes medically necessary to protect the woman's health. Federal trials are taking place in New York and San Francisco and in Lincoln, Nebraska.
Israel's Supreme Court has ruled that the son of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon must hand over documents linked to an ongoing corruption investigation.
The announcement comes just one day after Israel's chief prosecutor says he wants to indict Prime Minister Sharon on bribery charges, but whether Sharon will face the court is up to Israel's attorney general.
Israel's Channel Two says the ruling will likely take place within a month. Both Sharon and his son have denied any wrongdoing.
Actor and humanitarian Sir Peter Ustinov has died. The Oscar- winning actor was best known for his roles in "Spartacus" and "Topkapi." Later in his career, Ustinov was chosen as a U.N. Goodwill Ambassador working with organizations like UNICEF. Ustinov died of heart failure over the weekend in Switzerland. He was 82 years old.
Gasoline prices up again. They could be heading even higher. Prices across the country climbed another three cents in the past two weeks, according to the Lumberg survey.
The national average for a gallon of self-serve regular is just over $1.75 -- that's a new record. San Diego has the highest gas prices in the U.S. at $2.12 a gallon.
Now to sports. Some down to the wire victories in the NCAA tournament. The top-seeded Duke Blue Devils won the Atlanta Regional with a 66-63 victory over Xavier. Duke next takes on Connecticut. Our executive producer is very happy about that.
And Georgia Tech held off Kansas in overtime. It was 79-71. The Yellowjackets will play Oklahoma State this weekend.
HEMMER: Xavier almost got them last night. Almost.
O'BRIEN: Close. Sorry.
HEMMER: It was pretty close.
O'BRIEN: Kind of close.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: National security adviser Condoleezza Rice says she has nothing to hide from the 9/11 Commission, and says that her decision not to testify publicly is a matter of principle.
But a growing number of Republicans saying it's a political mistake for the White House to resist this request.
In a moment we'll talk with Republican Senator Richard Shelby about the fallout.
First, though, this morning CNN's Dana Bash on the latest in D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: National security adviser Condoleezza Rice insists she would like nothing more than to testify before the 9/11 Commission, but in an interview with CBS's "Sixty Minutes," she said it's a matter of executive privilege and she simply can't.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: It is a long- standing principle that sitting national security advisers do not testify before the Congress.
BASH: Many victims' family members are furious Rice won't appear in public under oath. In a transcript of the interview released by the White House, Rice offered a compromise:
"I know the families are disappointed that I can't testify," said Rice, "and I'd like very much to meet with families so that I could answer their questions."
The chairman of the 9/11 Commission says they'll continue to press Rice to appear at a hearing, but ruled out trying to force her to testify with a subpoena.
Meanwhile, Rice's former counterterror chief Richard Clarke tried to fight administration attempts to question his credibility. To Congressional Republicans asking to declassify 2002 testimony, they say proves he changed his story, Clarke says he has nothing to hide.
Other documents should also be made public, he said, to show the White House dragged its feet on the pre-9/11 threat of terrorism.
RICHARD CLARKE, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISER: Let's declassify that memo I sent on January 25, and let's declassify the national security directive that Dr. Rice's committee approved nine months later on September 4, and let's see if there's any difference between those two, because there isn't.
BASH: But if senior administration officials said declassifying all the information Clarke is calling for is unlikely because it could reveal sources and methods inciting terrorism.
Dana Bash, CNN, Crawford, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Republican Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama, former chairman of the Intelligence Committee, with us now in D.C. to talk more about this.
Senator, welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Nice to have you here.
SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R) ALABAMA: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Is Dr. Rice making a mistake? Is the White House making a mistake?
SHELBY: Well, that will have to be a call from the White House, but Dr. Rice has been very vigorous in stating her position that it is a separation of powers, and in her defense, Sandy Berger when he was the national security adviser for President Clinton, refused to testify before the Intelligence Committee -- I was chairman then -- he did come up and we consulted with him -- on the same grounds that Dr. Rice is putting forth now.
HEMMER: Is the impression here, though, that as someone suggests, there is something to hide?
SHELBY: I don't -- I don't believe Dr. Rice has anything to hide. I think she's very competent, she's very vigorous in her statement, and her public statements will have to be the same thing that she would testify in private, if she ever does.
HEMMER: The 9/11 Commissioner John Lehman, a member of that board, a Republican, too. Listen to how he is sizing up this issue with Dr. Rice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN F. LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: She has nothing to hide, and yet this is creating the impression for honest Americans all over the country, and people all over the world, that the White House has something to hide, that Condi Rice has something to hide.
And if they do, we sure haven't found it. There are no smoking guns. That's what makes this so absurd. It's a political blunder of the first order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Political blunder. Agree or not?
SHELBY: Well, I said that would be up to the president and his -- and his advisers to decide on, Bill, but that's something I can't call for.
HEMMER: Senator, how do you think public testimony would change the debate?
SHELBY: I'm not sure that it would change the debate at all, but I believe that the public testimony, if it ever happened, would be very similar, if not the same, as what Dr. Rice has said on television and said every day, that she's interviewed every where and I believe it would be consistent. It has to be consistent.
HEMMER: There are claims on all sides now to declassify some of this paperwork and some of this testimony. You've got a lot of experience in this area. Do you agree with this measures?
SHELBY: I think that they ought to be declassified. I remember Richard Clarke, when he testified before the investigative Senate and House committee, and I would like to go back and see the testimony that he gave then as opposed to what he said last week before the 9/11 Commission.
I don't recall any smoking gun that he brought about before. I believe that if he had we would have put it in the report itself. I went back yesterday and looked at the report. I have not reviewed all the classified documents, but they ought to be declassified to set the record straight.
HEMMER: You mentioned Richard Clarke. On our screen I'll put up a quote that he used recently talking about the past administration and the current administration.
"He, Clinton, did something, and President Bush did nothing prior to September 11."
How do you measure Richard Clarke's credibility a week after the bombshell hit last Sunday?
SHELBY: Well, I can tell you, Richard Clarke had a lot of credibility leading up to -- and -- after September the 11th. This is a political season. There's a book to sell, and I don't know what's happened, but we ought to check his testimony last week against what he told us earlier, and it is classified today.
Let's declassify that and let the American people decide.
HEMMER: Thank you, Senator. Good to talk to you as always.
Richard Shelby there in D.C.
Democratic Senator Bob Graham of Florida, another former chairman of the Intel Committee joins us a bit later in our program at the 9 a.m. Eastern hour.
We'll get to that in a few. Now Soledad with more.
O'BRIEN: And some news from Iraq this morning in Baghdad. Thousands of Iraqis took to the streets yesterday after U.S. soldiers shut down a popular weekly newspaper.
The coalition said the paper was increasing the threat of violence against occupation forces. The Iraqis called it a crackdown on their freedom of expression.
In the northern city of Mosul an attack on a convoy carrying an Iraqi interim cabinet minister left two people dead. The minister escaped unhurt.
One Iraqi official said it was an assassination attempt, but a coalition spokesman could not confirm that.
And, a French lawyer says that he has received a letter from Saddam Hussein's family asking him to defend the former Iraqi leader.
Jacques Verges has represented former Nazi Gestapo chief Klaus Barbie in the past. He is now criticizing President Bush for saying that Saddam is guilty of atrocities and he accuses the U.S. of violating international agreements when it was capturing Saddam Hussein last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACQUES VERGES, ATTORNEY (THROUGH INTERPRETER): The Americans are saying he's a prisoner of war, but at the same time he's not being treated like one.
The Geneva Convention says that the dignity of a prisoner of war shouldn't be harmed, that he can only be interrogated about his identity. In this case, his dignity was harmed and he's also being interrogated and on top of that the heads of the states that are enemies of Iraq are saying he is guilty.
That is the case for Mr. Bush saying Saddam Hussein is guilty and he deserves to die. Is Mr. Bush a judge?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Recurrent in the videotape of Saddam Hussein taken shortly after his capture -- Verges said it is illegal to examine and exhibit a man, quote, "Like an animal at a fair."
HEMMER: Ralph Nader plans to meet next month with Senator John Kerry. The Independent candidate for president says he will tell the Democratic candidate, quote, "Let's collaborate to defeat George Bush, even though we are competitors," end quote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RALPH NADER (I) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a common objective, and that's to defeat the giant corporation residing in the White House masquerading as a human being.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Senator Kerry's campaign is not commenting on the meeting. Many Democrats view Nader as a spoiler who could effect the outcome of a close election in November.
A spokesperson for the president's reelection campaign says George Bush welcomes debate with Nader and Senator John Kerry.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, will the jury in the Tyco trial resume deliberations, or will they just concede defeat? A closer look at just what could -- deals prosecutors a big blow. That's ahead this morning.
HEMMER: Also a grand jury begins hearing evidence in the Michael Jackson child molestation matter. Legal analysis in a moment from Jeffrey Toobin today.
O'BRIEN: And "Scooby Doo 2" is the top dog at the box office. A look at that also ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues, right after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: A federal appeals court has opened the door for police in three states to search private property without warrants.
The Fifth U.S. Circuit Court of appeals in New Orleans ruled that police don't need an arrest or search warrant to swiftly sweep private property. It's to ensure officer's safety.
The 11 to 4 ruling effects Louisiana and Texas and Mississippi.
A California grand jury expected to begin hearing evidence this morning in the Michael Jackson child molestation case.
CNN's senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin talking about it this morning. JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: good morning.
O'BRIEN: How are you?
TOOBIN: Good.
O'BRIEN: Why the grand jury as opposed to a preliminary hearing? I mean they have two options there and they went for the grand jury. What does the prosecution get from that?
TOOBIN: The best thing about a grand jury from a prosecutor's perspective is it's secret. There's no cross examination, no defense -- no defense attorney's there.
And there is essentially no supervision, no judge there. It is -- it allows the government to proceed very much on their own terms and they get to have an indictment, perhaps very quickly after only a couple of days of testimony without any exposure of their case to the public, and no cross examination.
O'BRIEN: Does that mean then that the bar for guilt or innocence or for an indictment being handed down or not is that much lower, would you say?
TOOBIN: As a legal matter, no. It's the same standard in both preliminary hearing and grand jury, which is probable cause.
The fact is the government meets that standard very easily in either circumstance. The judge very famously said about grand juries, that any prosecutor worth his salt could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. That's a -- that's a well known saying in legal circles, and it's true.
There is almost never a case where the government goes to a grand jury, asks for an indictment, and doesn't get it.
O'BRIEN: How much of this case before the grand jury is going to rely on the credibility of this young man who is really at the center of this entire case? He's supposed to testify, we believe.
TOOBIN: We don't know. I mean what is interesting about grand juries as well as preliminary hearings is that hearsay evidence is admissible, so it is not even necessary for this young man to testify before the grand jury. It could be simply a police officer who investigated -- who interviewed this young man.
One reason why they might be using the grand jury is that it would allow him to testify in a very sheltered, easy setting. He would not have to be cross-examined; he would not be in public. This might be an easy trial run for him.
O'BRIEN: Sort of a dry run.
TOOBIN: Right, but we don't know for sure that he will even testify at all. O'BRIEN: The young man who was at the center of the case back in 1993, can he be compelled to testify? Can he be compelled at least to come before the grand jury?
TOOBIN: You know what? This is a legal question that I've tried to figure out an answer to. It is not entirely clear to me. I'm sure -- you have stumped me.
The answer is usually you can't refuse to come to a grand jury. Usually you have to come in. But sometimes when there are relating to sexual offenses against someone when they were a minor, even if they are now an adult that is a legal question that I simply don't know the answer to.
O'BRIEN: Could Michael Jackson -- I mean, he's been invited, but of course invited is such a nice positive term. Could he be compelled to come in?
TOOBIN: No. Absolutely not. The target of a grand jury is always asked to come in and if they have a lawyer who is at all intelligent they do not come in.
O'BRIEN: If the grand jury goes ahead and says OK we've indicted Michael Jackson. If indeed that does happen, what's the next step?
TOOBIN: Then it goes to a trial; raise a jury, proof beyond a reasonable doubt -- that is the next step.
O'BRIEN: All right, interesting. Jeff Toobin. As always, thank you very much -- Bill.
HEMMER: The striped horn (ph) jury in the Tyco trial resumes deliberation today after the judge gave them a long weekend to try and cool down.
Could this six-month case end in a mistrial? A lot of questions today for Andy Serwer, "Minding Your Business" fresh off a week of vacation last week.
Good to have you back.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: What's going on with this one?
SERWER: Well, this is really amazing. First of all, I've got to make that sign? You know about that? The high sign?
You know that's the OK sign that a juror allegedly made to the defense team really just -- this is stuff out of a John Grisham novel, or, as Jeff Greenfield told me, a Mel Brooks movie.
Just really stunning stuff here. The jury unable to deliberate. The judge sent them home; they're going to come back this morning at 9:30 and there's a very, very good chance that we're going to get a mistrial out of this. I want to quickly contrast this with two other trials. The Frank Quattrone trial from CS First Boston, that ended in a mistrial, the government is going back again.
And then last week a trial against Dynagi (ph) a judgment against an official there, a mid-level executive sentenced to 24 years for perpetrating malfeasance there.
He didn't line his pockets at all. Bill, this would be amazing if this ended up in a mistrial, but I do think the government will go back and Jeff might know more about that.
HEMMER: Well I brought my counselor with me today to help me out, as a matter of fact.
TOOBIN: Well, you know what's interesting about this case is that if this were federal court; there are provisions to get rid of a recalcitrant, irrational juror. But in state court there are not.
They are in New York State court, so basically the -- both sides are stuck with these 12 jurors and the prosecutors just have to sit there and suffer in silence if this woman continues to hold out.
There may be a partial verdict -- they may be able to reach agreement on some counts but not others but this is the jury and this is the verdict they're going to get.
O'BRIEN: Is there any actual confirmation that the juror -- I believe it's juror number four -- she's been identified.
SERWER: Number four; we can describe her, yes.
O'BRIEN: That she is the one who is also the hold out? Because of course at the end of last week, we were talking about how they couldn't get it together, there was one juror apparently who seemed to be going against everybody else, not...
TOOBIN: It seems pretty clear she's the hold out.
O'BRIEN: So there's no, there's no way to get -- I mean that can't be the first time that there's been one juror who been a hold out and maybe not playing with everybody else, necessarily?
TOOBIN: It's not the only time, but in state court one is all you need. If you're the defense.
O'BRIEN: Wow.
HEMMER: While we have you, the markets were up.
SERWER: Yes, well it was a wild ride while I was away last week, but we ended to the upside.
Let's take a look at those numbers very quickly here. You can see -- well, not for the S&P 500, but for the Dow and the Nasdaq. Futures are looking good this morning and the big news comes on Friday, Bill, when we get the jobs report for June.
HEMMER: It will be as we wait.
SERWER: Yes, that's right. OK.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Andy.
Still to come this morning the terrorism controversy sparked by Richard Clarke has raged for more than a week now. We've got a look at how it's playing politically coming up.
Plus, history over head, the super-fast flight that could change air and space travel the way we know it.
A look at that is straight ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right, welcome back. "Question of the Day" with Jack on that.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill. Tennis star Serena Williams is saying the threat of terrorism might keep her from going to this summer's Olympic games in Athens.
Williams says that her security and her safety and her life are more important than tennis, and that if she doesn't feel comfortable, she's going to stay home.
Serena and Venus Williams won the gold medal in doubles at the Olympics in 2000 in Sydney Australia.
You'll recall in 1972 eleven Israelis were killed by Arab terrorists at the Munich games.
A bomb in a backpack in Atlanta's Centennial Park disrupted the Olympic games in 1996.
Security measures for the Olympics this summer in Athens expected to cost more than $800 million. 50,000 police soldiers, other personnel expected to be on hand for the games. Still, U.S. officials have said those measures may not be enough.
So the question this morning, boys and girls, is how will the threat of terrorism affect the summer Olympics? am@cnn.com is the e- mail address.
HEMMER: You are so right to point out the security concerns this summer. It will be every bit part of the story as the games themselves.
O'BRIEN: They've had huge concerns anyway, just where do they house people and as the infrastructure set but on top of all of that of course is this looming security issue. CAFFERTY: Traditionally, too, I'm sure they've fixed it but the Athens airport was one of the most poorest airports on the planet for years and years and years. I mean you could smuggle, you know, anything you want. A herd of cattle through the gate, no big deal. I'm sure they've tightened it up, but...
HEMMER: Especially on the cattle. Thanks, Jack.
O'BRIEN: First heard NASA scientists thrilled today over the weekend look at history in the making here. NASA set a speed record Saturday when it launched an unmanned test aircraft called a Scramjet. It zoomed a 5,000 miles an hour, more than seven times the speed of sound.
It's a supersonic combustion Scramjet using an air breathing engine that is revolutionary they say. Scientists say it may change commercial travel as we know it and may also make space flight easier in the future. The Scramjet off and scramming now.
Frequent flier miles, huh?
O'BRIEN: It has been a good month for NASA with the Rover...
HEMMER: A lot of headlines, no question.
O'BRIEN: Certainly is.
Well, still to come this morning going to great lengths to look like a celebrity. "90-Second Pop" panel weighs in on new MTV reality show.
That and a look at the weekend at the box office are straight ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired March 29, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Is the pressure getting more intense for Condoleezza Rice? Her answer to 9/11 critics demanding she testify in public.
Also, a furious response from Shi'ite Muslims in Iraq when coalition forces decide their newspaper is crossing the line.
And the grand jury in the Michael Jackson case now getting to work. A secret location and a key advantage for prosecutors.
All ahead this morning on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, welcome everybody.
Other stories that we're following this morning, a huge day in the Tyco trial. Jurors are back in court after taking the weekend to cool down.
Andy Serwer, Jeff Toobin waiting in the wings to talk about the real possibilities of a mistrial.
Of course, word that some people saw one juror make the OK sign to the defense team. We'll see what the fallout of that will be.
HEMMER: Wonder what it all means, too.
Also the man who may have gotten away with murder, then he saw "The Passion of The Christ."
We'll talk to a Texas sheriff about a bizarre confession in that case that had plenty of other twists along the way, so we'll get to it also on a Monday.
O'BRIEN: And Mr. Cafferty is back after his long weekend.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I took a long day.
O'BRIEN: I'm good.
CAFFERTY: One day. I took a day.
O'BRIEN: We missed you that much.
CAFFERTY: How long are you going to be gone later this week and next week?
O'BRIEN: I'm out Thursday and Friday.
CAFFERTY: Like a week and a half, right?
O'BRIEN: Were you thinking about us the whole time?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
One of the marquee names in sports threatening to skip the Olympic Games in Athens this summer because of the fear of terrorism.
You were here all by yourself Friday, weren't you?
O'BRIEN: I know -- well, Miles was helping out, but yes. I missed you terribly.
CAFFERTY: People writing in wondering if you and Miles are married.
O'BRIEN: I know, they always do. People -- when I worked at NBC they thought I was married to Conan O'Brien.
(LAUGHTER)
CAFFERTY: You mean you're not?
O'BRIEN: Let's get right to our top stories this morning.
Three courtrooms across the U.S. are challenging the new ban on some late term abortions, which some critics call partial birth abortions.
Supporters argue that these procedures are sometimes medically necessary to protect the woman's health. Federal trials are taking place in New York and San Francisco and in Lincoln, Nebraska.
Israel's Supreme Court has ruled that the son of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon must hand over documents linked to an ongoing corruption investigation.
The announcement comes just one day after Israel's chief prosecutor says he wants to indict Prime Minister Sharon on bribery charges, but whether Sharon will face the court is up to Israel's attorney general.
Israel's Channel Two says the ruling will likely take place within a month. Both Sharon and his son have denied any wrongdoing.
Actor and humanitarian Sir Peter Ustinov has died. The Oscar- winning actor was best known for his roles in "Spartacus" and "Topkapi." Later in his career, Ustinov was chosen as a U.N. Goodwill Ambassador working with organizations like UNICEF. Ustinov died of heart failure over the weekend in Switzerland. He was 82 years old.
Gasoline prices up again. They could be heading even higher. Prices across the country climbed another three cents in the past two weeks, according to the Lumberg survey.
The national average for a gallon of self-serve regular is just over $1.75 -- that's a new record. San Diego has the highest gas prices in the U.S. at $2.12 a gallon.
Now to sports. Some down to the wire victories in the NCAA tournament. The top-seeded Duke Blue Devils won the Atlanta Regional with a 66-63 victory over Xavier. Duke next takes on Connecticut. Our executive producer is very happy about that.
And Georgia Tech held off Kansas in overtime. It was 79-71. The Yellowjackets will play Oklahoma State this weekend.
HEMMER: Xavier almost got them last night. Almost.
O'BRIEN: Close. Sorry.
HEMMER: It was pretty close.
O'BRIEN: Kind of close.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: National security adviser Condoleezza Rice says she has nothing to hide from the 9/11 Commission, and says that her decision not to testify publicly is a matter of principle.
But a growing number of Republicans saying it's a political mistake for the White House to resist this request.
In a moment we'll talk with Republican Senator Richard Shelby about the fallout.
First, though, this morning CNN's Dana Bash on the latest in D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: National security adviser Condoleezza Rice insists she would like nothing more than to testify before the 9/11 Commission, but in an interview with CBS's "Sixty Minutes," she said it's a matter of executive privilege and she simply can't.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: It is a long- standing principle that sitting national security advisers do not testify before the Congress.
BASH: Many victims' family members are furious Rice won't appear in public under oath. In a transcript of the interview released by the White House, Rice offered a compromise:
"I know the families are disappointed that I can't testify," said Rice, "and I'd like very much to meet with families so that I could answer their questions."
The chairman of the 9/11 Commission says they'll continue to press Rice to appear at a hearing, but ruled out trying to force her to testify with a subpoena.
Meanwhile, Rice's former counterterror chief Richard Clarke tried to fight administration attempts to question his credibility. To Congressional Republicans asking to declassify 2002 testimony, they say proves he changed his story, Clarke says he has nothing to hide.
Other documents should also be made public, he said, to show the White House dragged its feet on the pre-9/11 threat of terrorism.
RICHARD CLARKE, FORMER COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISER: Let's declassify that memo I sent on January 25, and let's declassify the national security directive that Dr. Rice's committee approved nine months later on September 4, and let's see if there's any difference between those two, because there isn't.
BASH: But if senior administration officials said declassifying all the information Clarke is calling for is unlikely because it could reveal sources and methods inciting terrorism.
Dana Bash, CNN, Crawford, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Republican Senator Richard Shelby of Alabama, former chairman of the Intelligence Committee, with us now in D.C. to talk more about this.
Senator, welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING. Nice to have you here.
SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R) ALABAMA: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: Is Dr. Rice making a mistake? Is the White House making a mistake?
SHELBY: Well, that will have to be a call from the White House, but Dr. Rice has been very vigorous in stating her position that it is a separation of powers, and in her defense, Sandy Berger when he was the national security adviser for President Clinton, refused to testify before the Intelligence Committee -- I was chairman then -- he did come up and we consulted with him -- on the same grounds that Dr. Rice is putting forth now.
HEMMER: Is the impression here, though, that as someone suggests, there is something to hide?
SHELBY: I don't -- I don't believe Dr. Rice has anything to hide. I think she's very competent, she's very vigorous in her statement, and her public statements will have to be the same thing that she would testify in private, if she ever does.
HEMMER: The 9/11 Commissioner John Lehman, a member of that board, a Republican, too. Listen to how he is sizing up this issue with Dr. Rice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN F. LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: She has nothing to hide, and yet this is creating the impression for honest Americans all over the country, and people all over the world, that the White House has something to hide, that Condi Rice has something to hide.
And if they do, we sure haven't found it. There are no smoking guns. That's what makes this so absurd. It's a political blunder of the first order.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Political blunder. Agree or not?
SHELBY: Well, I said that would be up to the president and his -- and his advisers to decide on, Bill, but that's something I can't call for.
HEMMER: Senator, how do you think public testimony would change the debate?
SHELBY: I'm not sure that it would change the debate at all, but I believe that the public testimony, if it ever happened, would be very similar, if not the same, as what Dr. Rice has said on television and said every day, that she's interviewed every where and I believe it would be consistent. It has to be consistent.
HEMMER: There are claims on all sides now to declassify some of this paperwork and some of this testimony. You've got a lot of experience in this area. Do you agree with this measures?
SHELBY: I think that they ought to be declassified. I remember Richard Clarke, when he testified before the investigative Senate and House committee, and I would like to go back and see the testimony that he gave then as opposed to what he said last week before the 9/11 Commission.
I don't recall any smoking gun that he brought about before. I believe that if he had we would have put it in the report itself. I went back yesterday and looked at the report. I have not reviewed all the classified documents, but they ought to be declassified to set the record straight.
HEMMER: You mentioned Richard Clarke. On our screen I'll put up a quote that he used recently talking about the past administration and the current administration.
"He, Clinton, did something, and President Bush did nothing prior to September 11."
How do you measure Richard Clarke's credibility a week after the bombshell hit last Sunday?
SHELBY: Well, I can tell you, Richard Clarke had a lot of credibility leading up to -- and -- after September the 11th. This is a political season. There's a book to sell, and I don't know what's happened, but we ought to check his testimony last week against what he told us earlier, and it is classified today.
Let's declassify that and let the American people decide.
HEMMER: Thank you, Senator. Good to talk to you as always.
Richard Shelby there in D.C.
Democratic Senator Bob Graham of Florida, another former chairman of the Intel Committee joins us a bit later in our program at the 9 a.m. Eastern hour.
We'll get to that in a few. Now Soledad with more.
O'BRIEN: And some news from Iraq this morning in Baghdad. Thousands of Iraqis took to the streets yesterday after U.S. soldiers shut down a popular weekly newspaper.
The coalition said the paper was increasing the threat of violence against occupation forces. The Iraqis called it a crackdown on their freedom of expression.
In the northern city of Mosul an attack on a convoy carrying an Iraqi interim cabinet minister left two people dead. The minister escaped unhurt.
One Iraqi official said it was an assassination attempt, but a coalition spokesman could not confirm that.
And, a French lawyer says that he has received a letter from Saddam Hussein's family asking him to defend the former Iraqi leader.
Jacques Verges has represented former Nazi Gestapo chief Klaus Barbie in the past. He is now criticizing President Bush for saying that Saddam is guilty of atrocities and he accuses the U.S. of violating international agreements when it was capturing Saddam Hussein last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACQUES VERGES, ATTORNEY (THROUGH INTERPRETER): The Americans are saying he's a prisoner of war, but at the same time he's not being treated like one.
The Geneva Convention says that the dignity of a prisoner of war shouldn't be harmed, that he can only be interrogated about his identity. In this case, his dignity was harmed and he's also being interrogated and on top of that the heads of the states that are enemies of Iraq are saying he is guilty.
That is the case for Mr. Bush saying Saddam Hussein is guilty and he deserves to die. Is Mr. Bush a judge?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Recurrent in the videotape of Saddam Hussein taken shortly after his capture -- Verges said it is illegal to examine and exhibit a man, quote, "Like an animal at a fair."
HEMMER: Ralph Nader plans to meet next month with Senator John Kerry. The Independent candidate for president says he will tell the Democratic candidate, quote, "Let's collaborate to defeat George Bush, even though we are competitors," end quote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RALPH NADER (I) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have a common objective, and that's to defeat the giant corporation residing in the White House masquerading as a human being.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Senator Kerry's campaign is not commenting on the meeting. Many Democrats view Nader as a spoiler who could effect the outcome of a close election in November.
A spokesperson for the president's reelection campaign says George Bush welcomes debate with Nader and Senator John Kerry.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, will the jury in the Tyco trial resume deliberations, or will they just concede defeat? A closer look at just what could -- deals prosecutors a big blow. That's ahead this morning.
HEMMER: Also a grand jury begins hearing evidence in the Michael Jackson child molestation matter. Legal analysis in a moment from Jeffrey Toobin today.
O'BRIEN: And "Scooby Doo 2" is the top dog at the box office. A look at that also ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues, right after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: A federal appeals court has opened the door for police in three states to search private property without warrants.
The Fifth U.S. Circuit Court of appeals in New Orleans ruled that police don't need an arrest or search warrant to swiftly sweep private property. It's to ensure officer's safety.
The 11 to 4 ruling effects Louisiana and Texas and Mississippi.
A California grand jury expected to begin hearing evidence this morning in the Michael Jackson child molestation case.
CNN's senior legal analyst Jeff Toobin talking about it this morning. JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: good morning.
O'BRIEN: How are you?
TOOBIN: Good.
O'BRIEN: Why the grand jury as opposed to a preliminary hearing? I mean they have two options there and they went for the grand jury. What does the prosecution get from that?
TOOBIN: The best thing about a grand jury from a prosecutor's perspective is it's secret. There's no cross examination, no defense -- no defense attorney's there.
And there is essentially no supervision, no judge there. It is -- it allows the government to proceed very much on their own terms and they get to have an indictment, perhaps very quickly after only a couple of days of testimony without any exposure of their case to the public, and no cross examination.
O'BRIEN: Does that mean then that the bar for guilt or innocence or for an indictment being handed down or not is that much lower, would you say?
TOOBIN: As a legal matter, no. It's the same standard in both preliminary hearing and grand jury, which is probable cause.
The fact is the government meets that standard very easily in either circumstance. The judge very famously said about grand juries, that any prosecutor worth his salt could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. That's a -- that's a well known saying in legal circles, and it's true.
There is almost never a case where the government goes to a grand jury, asks for an indictment, and doesn't get it.
O'BRIEN: How much of this case before the grand jury is going to rely on the credibility of this young man who is really at the center of this entire case? He's supposed to testify, we believe.
TOOBIN: We don't know. I mean what is interesting about grand juries as well as preliminary hearings is that hearsay evidence is admissible, so it is not even necessary for this young man to testify before the grand jury. It could be simply a police officer who investigated -- who interviewed this young man.
One reason why they might be using the grand jury is that it would allow him to testify in a very sheltered, easy setting. He would not have to be cross-examined; he would not be in public. This might be an easy trial run for him.
O'BRIEN: Sort of a dry run.
TOOBIN: Right, but we don't know for sure that he will even testify at all. O'BRIEN: The young man who was at the center of the case back in 1993, can he be compelled to testify? Can he be compelled at least to come before the grand jury?
TOOBIN: You know what? This is a legal question that I've tried to figure out an answer to. It is not entirely clear to me. I'm sure -- you have stumped me.
The answer is usually you can't refuse to come to a grand jury. Usually you have to come in. But sometimes when there are relating to sexual offenses against someone when they were a minor, even if they are now an adult that is a legal question that I simply don't know the answer to.
O'BRIEN: Could Michael Jackson -- I mean, he's been invited, but of course invited is such a nice positive term. Could he be compelled to come in?
TOOBIN: No. Absolutely not. The target of a grand jury is always asked to come in and if they have a lawyer who is at all intelligent they do not come in.
O'BRIEN: If the grand jury goes ahead and says OK we've indicted Michael Jackson. If indeed that does happen, what's the next step?
TOOBIN: Then it goes to a trial; raise a jury, proof beyond a reasonable doubt -- that is the next step.
O'BRIEN: All right, interesting. Jeff Toobin. As always, thank you very much -- Bill.
HEMMER: The striped horn (ph) jury in the Tyco trial resumes deliberation today after the judge gave them a long weekend to try and cool down.
Could this six-month case end in a mistrial? A lot of questions today for Andy Serwer, "Minding Your Business" fresh off a week of vacation last week.
Good to have you back.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: What's going on with this one?
SERWER: Well, this is really amazing. First of all, I've got to make that sign? You know about that? The high sign?
You know that's the OK sign that a juror allegedly made to the defense team really just -- this is stuff out of a John Grisham novel, or, as Jeff Greenfield told me, a Mel Brooks movie.
Just really stunning stuff here. The jury unable to deliberate. The judge sent them home; they're going to come back this morning at 9:30 and there's a very, very good chance that we're going to get a mistrial out of this. I want to quickly contrast this with two other trials. The Frank Quattrone trial from CS First Boston, that ended in a mistrial, the government is going back again.
And then last week a trial against Dynagi (ph) a judgment against an official there, a mid-level executive sentenced to 24 years for perpetrating malfeasance there.
He didn't line his pockets at all. Bill, this would be amazing if this ended up in a mistrial, but I do think the government will go back and Jeff might know more about that.
HEMMER: Well I brought my counselor with me today to help me out, as a matter of fact.
TOOBIN: Well, you know what's interesting about this case is that if this were federal court; there are provisions to get rid of a recalcitrant, irrational juror. But in state court there are not.
They are in New York State court, so basically the -- both sides are stuck with these 12 jurors and the prosecutors just have to sit there and suffer in silence if this woman continues to hold out.
There may be a partial verdict -- they may be able to reach agreement on some counts but not others but this is the jury and this is the verdict they're going to get.
O'BRIEN: Is there any actual confirmation that the juror -- I believe it's juror number four -- she's been identified.
SERWER: Number four; we can describe her, yes.
O'BRIEN: That she is the one who is also the hold out? Because of course at the end of last week, we were talking about how they couldn't get it together, there was one juror apparently who seemed to be going against everybody else, not...
TOOBIN: It seems pretty clear she's the hold out.
O'BRIEN: So there's no, there's no way to get -- I mean that can't be the first time that there's been one juror who been a hold out and maybe not playing with everybody else, necessarily?
TOOBIN: It's not the only time, but in state court one is all you need. If you're the defense.
O'BRIEN: Wow.
HEMMER: While we have you, the markets were up.
SERWER: Yes, well it was a wild ride while I was away last week, but we ended to the upside.
Let's take a look at those numbers very quickly here. You can see -- well, not for the S&P 500, but for the Dow and the Nasdaq. Futures are looking good this morning and the big news comes on Friday, Bill, when we get the jobs report for June.
HEMMER: It will be as we wait.
SERWER: Yes, that's right. OK.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Andy.
Still to come this morning the terrorism controversy sparked by Richard Clarke has raged for more than a week now. We've got a look at how it's playing politically coming up.
Plus, history over head, the super-fast flight that could change air and space travel the way we know it.
A look at that is straight ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right, welcome back. "Question of the Day" with Jack on that.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Bill. Tennis star Serena Williams is saying the threat of terrorism might keep her from going to this summer's Olympic games in Athens.
Williams says that her security and her safety and her life are more important than tennis, and that if she doesn't feel comfortable, she's going to stay home.
Serena and Venus Williams won the gold medal in doubles at the Olympics in 2000 in Sydney Australia.
You'll recall in 1972 eleven Israelis were killed by Arab terrorists at the Munich games.
A bomb in a backpack in Atlanta's Centennial Park disrupted the Olympic games in 1996.
Security measures for the Olympics this summer in Athens expected to cost more than $800 million. 50,000 police soldiers, other personnel expected to be on hand for the games. Still, U.S. officials have said those measures may not be enough.
So the question this morning, boys and girls, is how will the threat of terrorism affect the summer Olympics? am@cnn.com is the e- mail address.
HEMMER: You are so right to point out the security concerns this summer. It will be every bit part of the story as the games themselves.
O'BRIEN: They've had huge concerns anyway, just where do they house people and as the infrastructure set but on top of all of that of course is this looming security issue. CAFFERTY: Traditionally, too, I'm sure they've fixed it but the Athens airport was one of the most poorest airports on the planet for years and years and years. I mean you could smuggle, you know, anything you want. A herd of cattle through the gate, no big deal. I'm sure they've tightened it up, but...
HEMMER: Especially on the cattle. Thanks, Jack.
O'BRIEN: First heard NASA scientists thrilled today over the weekend look at history in the making here. NASA set a speed record Saturday when it launched an unmanned test aircraft called a Scramjet. It zoomed a 5,000 miles an hour, more than seven times the speed of sound.
It's a supersonic combustion Scramjet using an air breathing engine that is revolutionary they say. Scientists say it may change commercial travel as we know it and may also make space flight easier in the future. The Scramjet off and scramming now.
Frequent flier miles, huh?
O'BRIEN: It has been a good month for NASA with the Rover...
HEMMER: A lot of headlines, no question.
O'BRIEN: Certainly is.
Well, still to come this morning going to great lengths to look like a celebrity. "90-Second Pop" panel weighs in on new MTV reality show.
That and a look at the weekend at the box office are straight ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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