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ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
Rice Agrees to Testify Publicly Before 9/11 Commission; Interview With Charles Duelfer; Gas Prices Guzzle American Dollars
Aired March 30, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Condoleezza Rice agrees to testify publicly. Will the reward be worth the risk?
Exclusive, the new WMD chief tells us what he has and has not found.
Gas prices guzzle American dollars. Both campaigns make it an issue. Who's to blame for empty pockets at the pump?
Tyco courtroom drama continues, what's really going on behind those closed doors? We'll talk tonight with an alternate juror.
A star University of Wisconsin student vanishes after a brutal and baffling attack. Hundreds of tips but no solid leads, a massive manhunt ensues.
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
HEMMER: And good evening, I'm Bill Hemmer. Anderson is off tonight.
In a moment here, suspected terrorists and 1,000 pounds of bomb making material seized earlier today in London, what they may have been planning. We are live in London in a moment on that story.
First though tonight, a stunning about face from the White House, Condoleezza Rice will testify in public under oath before the 9/11 commission. What's behind that reversal today?
John King has some answers tonight.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The president's dramatic turnaround came as perceptions mounted that the White House had something to hide.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I consider it necessary to gaining a complete picture of the months and years that preceded the murder of our fellow citizens on September the 11th, 2001.
KING: After months of saying no, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice will not testify before the 9/11 commission in public and under oath.
BUSH: So that the public record is full and accurate.
KING: The deal clears the way for a high stakes rebuttal, one of the president's closest advisers taking issue with former deputy Richard Clarke and his explosive allegation the president and Rice ignored warnings al Qaeda was poised to strike.
THOMAS KEAN, CHAIRMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: We've got to try and clear up those discrepancies as best we can.
KING: Democrats can no longer claim stonewalling by the White House.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Now the White House bowed to the inevitable and they conceded to the obvious.
KING: And Republicans are counting on Rice to supplant Clarke as the commission's star witness. The White House also is granting more access to the president and vice president.
They had offered meetings only with the commission chairman and vice chairman but now an invitation for a joint meeting with the full 9/11 commission where the president and vice president will answer any and all questions, though in private and not under oath in their case.
White House counsel Alberto Gonzales told the commission "the president recognizes the truly unique and extraordinary circumstances of helping the 9/11 panel investigate the attacks."
KING: And to seal the deal, the commission agreed that 9/11 was such a unique event that Dr. Rice's testimony should not be considered a precedent for her in the future or any other future national security adviser or senior administration official, White House official. And, Bill, the commission also agreed that Dr. Rice is the only White House official it will seek public testimony from.
HEMMER: Two questions quickly. A date for testimony when, John, do we know?
KING: We don't have a date yet but commission members say the White House is clamoring to have this as soon as possible. They want her to rebut Richard Clarke as soon as possible.
HEMMER: All right. Number two, who was holding firm at the White House? Was it the president or was it Condoleezza Rice?
KING: Condoleezza Rice has said for weeks she wanted to testify. It was the president's lawyers and we are told the president himself at times, sort of a split personality on this issue understanding the politics but believing he should stand for principle.
We saw in our own polling this week though, Bill, the public mood on this is changing. There was the perception growing the administration might have something to hide. At that point, the president say let's go.
HEMMER: It is must see TV when it happens. John King thanks there in D.C. tonight.
From London today a frightening and apparently imminent terror threat, eight suspected terrorists arrested, raids netting nearly 1,000 pounds of bomb making ingredients. In London on that story here's Sheila MacVicar.
SHEILA MACVICAR, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): After months of surveillance and planning, more than 700 police from five different regional forces made their move.
When the raids began on Tuesday morning, police knew what they would find here in a self storage locker in a residential neighborhood in West London, half a ton of the fertilizer ammonium nitrate. It can be used as an explosive. It was packed into a reinforced polyethylene bag like this one, displayed by police officers at a rare news conference.
PETER CLARKE, BRITISH TERRORISM OFFICIAL: I must stress that the threat from terrorism remains very real.
MACVICAR: Eight men, all British of Pakistani origin, aged between 17 and 32, have been taken into custody from addresses across London. The men are being held on suspicion of involvement in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.
Because it is still relatively easy to acquire, terrorists from the IRA in Manchester, to Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City, to al Qaeda in Nairobi and Bali, have used ammonium nitrate to devastating effect.
DAVID CLARIDGE, RISK ADVISORY GROUP: It's a fertilizer which can be acquired in large quantities which is what's necessary to build a significant bomb without really too many questions being asked.
MACVICAR: There is still no public word what the intended target here was but security sources say they believe the target was British and probably somewhere in London.
MACVICAR: Bill, the question tonight was their apparent aim was a truck bomb. Again, the question what was the target and what precisely were they aiming to do -- Bill.
HEMMER: Questions persist. Sheila MacVicar thanks there in London. As Sheila mentioned, the ammonium nitrate found in connection with the eight men arrested, 1,000 pounds discovered, a quick news note now on that.
Ammonium nitrate is a common fertilizer that becomes a powerful explosive when mixed with fuel oil. Three thousand pounds were used in Oklahoma City, 168 were killed there. Investigators also believe 100 to 330 pounds were used in the Bali nightclub bombing, 202 were killed there in Indonesia.
Now to today's developments in Iraq, west of Baghdad the town of Ramadi, a bomb attack there killed one coalition soldier, wounded a second. A patrol was attacked by an improvised explosive device so common in Iraq today. Nationalities of the soldiers not yet announced.
In Najaf, demonstrators demanding jobs threw stones at Spanish soldiers and Iraqi police, 32 were detained. At least three police and two protesters were injured in that town.
Also tonight, an exclusive interview with the man leading the search for WMD, Charles Duelfer, he's the CIA's new chief weapons inspector in Iraq and says he's received intriguing reports on those weapons still possibly there. He testified behind closed doors before two Senate committees today in fact.
And moments ago, CNN's David Ensor talked to him about it.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just back from his first six weeks on the job in Iraq, Charles Duelfer, the CIA's new man in charge of looking for weapons of mass destruction says though nothing has been found yet, he does not rule out finding weapons.
CHARLES DUELFER, CIA CHIEF WEAPONS INSPECTOR: We continue to receive reports almost on a daily basis of hidden weapons, of hidden materials, which we have to investigate.
ENSOR: Duelfer told Senators he's found more evidence Saddam Hussein's regime had civilian factories able to quickly produce biological and chemical weapons but he said most Iraqi scientists and engineers are afraid to tell what they know.
DUELFER: There's a fear that if they're seen to be cooperating with the United States and its coalition partners that regime elements may seek retribution on them. This is more akin to a homicide investigation than simply a search to find existing weapons.
ENSOR: One senior Senator in the room for Duelfer's closed door testimony says after looking at the unclassified version put out in public by the CIA that he is troubled.
SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: Again, the CIA is making a mistake of having its public statements different in tone in a significant way from its underlying classified documents.
DUELFER: It may simply be that in the process of declassification something is lost but certainly it is not my intent to show, you know, a different version in the public as opposed to the classified version.
ENSOR: Charles Duelfer is heading back to Baghdad soon, which he says will be a relief after the intense political atmosphere here in Washington. Only half joking, he said it's safer in Baghdad -- Bill.
HEMMER: David Ensor thanks, nice exclusive story for us tonight, appreciate it.
Following a number of developing stories right now "Cross Country," New York City first stop, nine days and still deliberating, the jury in the Tyco trial still at work even as the defense makes another motion for a mistrial. The judge rejected their argument saying in this trial it would be "inappropriate."
A bit later tonight we'll talk to one of the alternate jurors about what he thinks is happening behind closed doors.
Los Angeles, a sharp dressing swindler goes to jail, Christopher Rocancourt posed as a member of the Rockefeller family, said he was a race car driver and spent stolen money on cars and expensive suits, sentenced to five years in jail after pleading guilty to a fraud charge.
Washington, not enough sleep for the kids, a new survey saying most children are missing between one and two hours of sleep per night. Sixty-nine percent of families surveyed say at least one person is having some type of sleeping problem per week.
New York Harbor reopening this summer, the National Park Service says the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty reopens in late July. Still tourists will not be allowed inside the statue itself. Lady Liberty closed since the attacks of 9/11. That's a look at stories "Cross Country" tonight.
Masked in secrecy, the Michael Jackson grand jury hearing, from an attorney involved in a case 11 years ago, 1993. Jackson shows up though in an unexpected place. We'll tell you where in a moment here.
Plus a desperate search for a missing student, she disappeared a month after being attacked on a major college campus.
And dying to be skinny, anorexia on the rise, Dr. Sanjay Gupta tonight explaining what's behind the deadly trend.
First though, we'll look "Inside the Box," top stories on tonight's network newscasts.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HEMMER: Now to the soaring gasoline prices on the rise and in the headlines yet again today. For the sixth survey in a row, AAA says the cost of gasoline hits an all time high fast becoming a campaign issue as well, the White House and Senator John Kerry pointing fingers at each other.
For a "Fact Check" tonight here's Kelly Wallace.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): John Kerry makes an unscheduled stop in San Diego to highlight the skyrocketing cost of gasoline and, in a speech, charges the Bush team has done nothing to bring gas prices down.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Those aren't Exxon prices. Those are Halliburton prices ladies and gentlemen.
WALLACE: Halliburton is the oil company Vice President Dick Cheney once headed. Kerry's charge that since Cheney and President Bush, another former oil man, took office Americans have been paying 12 percent more for their gasoline.
Now, the fact check, at the start of the Bush administration the average price of gasoline was $1.49 a gallon. Today it is $1.75 representing a 17 percent increase.
The Bush-Cheney team launched a preemptive strike with this new ad accusing John Kerry of supporting higher gasoline taxes on 11 separate occasions.
ANNOUNCER: Some people have whacky ideas like taxing gasoline more so people drive less. That's John Kerry. He supported a 50 cent a gallon gas tax.
WALLACE: Now, the fact check, in a 1994 newspaper interview, Kerry said he supported a 50 cent gas hike but never actually proposed it on the Senate floor and does not support one now his aides say.
The Senator says if he were president he would temporarily stop sending oil into the United States' emergency stockpile known as the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. The Bush Energy Department says such a move would not reduce gas prices.
Now the fact check, analysts tend to agree with the Energy Department that halting shipments to the reserve would have almost no impact on the price of gasoline.
WALLACE: And the issue could be politically damaging to both men. Voters could blame the party in power for the higher gas prices but could also worry what John Kerry would do as president especially because, Bill, you saw that CNN poll. Fifty-eight percent of Americans believe if John Kerry were elected president their taxes overall would go up. HEMMER: In the meantime, a lot of people paying a lot of money too.
WALLACE: Lots of money.
HEMMER: Nice to see you, Kelly, Kelly Wallace here in New York.
WALLACE: Great to be here.
HEMMER: I want to get to California and the Michael Jackson and child molestation charges against him.
An informed source telling CNN the grand jury taking evidence in the case heard today from an attorney representing a boy who has accused the pop star of molesting him back in 1993. The case before the panel involves another boy's charge that Jackson molested him about two years ago.
Meanwhile, Jackson made an unusual visit today to a rather unlikely place. John Johns has that in D.C., good evening.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Bill.
Michael Jackson comes here to the U.S. Capitol complex obviously in a swirl of controversy over his legal problems. He's here in Washington to receive an award on Thursday night.
He met today here in the Rayburn House Office Building on Capitol Hill with about 12 members of the Congressional Black Caucus. Somehow or other they let me into that meeting.
He walked in, sat down at the desk of Congressman Chaka Fattah of Pennsylvania who is the host of the meeting and proceeded to read a little statement ostensibly to talk about his humanitarian efforts in Africa.
The end of it was "I know that many of you will" reading now, "continue to raise awareness and will continue to fight for funding in Africa. I want you to know that I'll do whatever I can to assist you in that fight," but after that meeting was over the topic went from Africa back to his legal problems. Let's listen to a little bit of Congressman Chaka Fattah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. CHAKA FATTAH (D), PENNSYLVANIA: There are three grand juries or at least one that we know of. It's been reported three investigating the White House on a CIA leak.
When President Bush comes to the Hill we listen to him on the issues that he's coming to discuss with us. There are all manners of investigation of all kinds, some of which will amount to something, others which will amount to nothing. We can't conduct our work here on the basis of rumors and innuendo, nor on the basis of unproven allegations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Now only about 12 members of the Congressional Black Caucus actually sat down to meet with Michael Jackson. There were a number of others who said they didn't want to do that. Tomorrow he's expected to be back on the Hill to meet with Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas and some other folks -- back to you Bill.
HEMMER: Interesting guest there, Joe Johns thanks on Capitol Hill.
At this hour, a desperate search underway in Madison, Wisconsin, a university coed there disappeared under mysterious circumstances late on Saturday and what's intriguing about her story is what happened there just a month ago.
Jonathan Freed has that story tonight.
JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Security camera video offers an eerie echo of the last time Audrey Seiler was spotted leaving her apartment building early Saturday.
The A student at the University of Wisconsin in Madison is the last person anyone expected to be caught up in controversy but it's the second time in two months.
CAPT. LUIS YUDICE, MADISON POLICE: She left the apartment there at approximately 2:30 in the morning and she took no personal belongings with her.
FREED: Police are still puzzled by an incident on February 1 when Seiler was attacked from behind and knocked unconscious while out walking after midnight. She woke up behind a nearby building but wasn't robbed or otherwise hurt.
YUDICE: It is unusual for somebody to be attacked by a total stranger on the street but, once again, we have not been able to make any connection.
FREED: And, there's no evidence of a crime this time. The search for Seiler on land, by air, and on the water, has been joined by 100 volunteers, including family and friends from her hometown of Rockford, Minnesota.
KEITH SEILER, FATHER: Audrey's whole family is hopeful and remains confident that we will find Audrey safe.
FREED: The university has even set up a Web site and e-mailed some 45,000 of its computer users asking them for help. Seiler's family does not believe she was depressed and say she seemed to be dealing well with the fallout from the February attack.
SCOTT CHARLESWORTH-SEILER, UNCLE: We're very confident and determined that if the right person hears us, sees her face, that they'll have some information that will help us. FREED: Jonathan Freed, CNN, Chicago.
HEMMER: From that story now following a number of stories internationally now checking the "Up Link" this evening.
This is La Paz, Bolivia, suicide bombing, a man blew himself up inside the Congress Building, videotape of that blast there, killing himself, wounding two police officers. Police say the man was a former miner demanding better benefits for the country's low paid workers in Bolivia.
Athens, Greece, Olympic setback, more than two million workers threaten to go on a pay strike tomorrow. The city could be paralyzed shutting down public transportation and the banks, Athens on a tight schedule right now to try and meet the deadlines for the August summer games.
Washington, terror diamonds, a U.S. Treasury officials says terrorists may be using diamonds to try and fund their activities and launder money around the globe. The official says there is no hard proof that is happening yet but acknowledging diamonds would be relatively easy to smuggle across the borders.
Israel and the West Bank, Land Day protests there, thousands of Israeli-Arabs and Palestinians stage an annual protest against the Israeli government, troops firing teargas to try and disperse stone throwers. The day marks the killing of six Israeli-Arabs in 1976 during protests of Israeli land confiscation.
Wellington, New Zealand, papa's got a brand new visa, the government granting James Brown a special visa to perform there. He's going to need one since people with criminal convictions are usually barred from entering the kiwi country, and that's tonight's "Up Link."
Americans dying to be skinny, why are eating disorders on the rise? Sanjay is back with us tonight. What's behind that alarming trend?
Also tonight, AIDS on the rise, why more people over 50 are catching the deadly disease.
And a bit later, strip search scam, a phony cop getting customers to take their clothes off at fast food restaurants, true story. We'll talk with the toughest sheriff in the country trying to track down a suspect this evening.
HEMMER: With 60 percent of Americans overweight, it may be hard to believe that millions suffer from eating disorders and sadly cases of bulimia and anorexia today are on the rise.
Tonight, Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains this.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We are a nation of extremes. The government says over 60 percent of Americans are either overweight or obese with the numbers and waistlines continuing to grow.
At the same time, there are millions of young Americans literally starving themselves. Anorexia and bulimia, once thought of as a white adolescent girls problem, now finds familiar faces in boys and minorities.
In the United States, nearly 10 million women and one million men are affected by these two disorders. So, along with the numerous ads to curb obesity start looking for an ad campaign on TV and in print showing real patients, past and present.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My 15th birthday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 5'7" and 100 pounds.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really don't want to live anymore.
GUPTA: Distorted images representing human suffering from anorexia and bulimia. The National Eating Disorders Association, which is releasing these ads (unintelligible) says: "Eating disorders are a silent killer and we have a responsibility to educate the public and save some lives."
But is society to blame for eating disorders, the rail thin images that fill magazines and television? Or, is it possible that some people are simply predisposed to an eating disorder?
Studies are underway to try to answer that question but eating disorders do seem to follow a similar pattern of other character traits such as obsessive compulsive disorder, anxiety, and perfectionism.
While there are no cures now for anorexia or bulimia, there are treatments so the quicker the diagnosis the better the outcome.
HEMMER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta is with us tonight, nice to see you in person again (unintelligible).
GUPTA: Thank you.
HEMMER: Many times we associate this with women but you say men and many of them are affected, why?
GUPTA: A couple of reasons, first of all athletics. One thing about keeping weight for men, they have to keep weight for wrestling, sports like swimming, things like that. Also, I think the cultural and media images that you've seen all those influences affect men as well. And sort of tying on to that then, I think probably in men thought it's gone underreported for a long time, men may be coming out more and talking about their anorexia and bulimia that also driving the numbers up.
HEMMER: Surveys say a million people on the male side may be affected by it.
GUPTA: That's right.
HEMMER: A couple factors here, self esteem, inadequacy, depression, anxiety, are there other factors that contribute to eating disorders?
GUPTA: Add to that obsessive compulsive disorder. Add to that perfectionism. A lot of times these people with eating disorders, significant eating disorders are going to be those who have also in addition to that they're perfectionists. They want everything perfect.
They look at themselves and they say I want to be better, not only in terms of their profession and things like that but also in terms of their body image. It becomes obsessively so as you can see from these pictures.
HEMMER: You saw the advertisement in your story there. We can put a print ad up again for our viewers to see it, a young girl looking at herself in the mirror and saying, the ad says anyway, "I'm so fat," quite a striking picture here. You're a neurosurgeon.
HEMMER: You study this stuff quite often. What contributes to a person who looks in the mirror and thinks of themselves like that?
GUPTA: You know that's sort of the $64,000 question. No one really knows if it's purely psychological. I think for too long probably a lot of doctors have said this is purely a psychological thing and the other side of the spectrum saying this is definitely the influence of media and culture. It probably is a combination of both things, Bill.
I think a lot -- there might be a group of people who are predisposed to this for some reason. They look at themselves and they do not see what you and I see when they look in the mirror. Why that happens is a subject of a great deal of research right now. It might lead to new therapies as well.
HEMMER: Thanks for making us aware, Sanjay Gupta it's nice to see you again.
A bit of perspective on this story and a follow-up here, the average American woman 5'4", 140 pounds, by comparison the average female American model 5'11" but weighs just 117 pounds, back in a moment.
HEMMER (voice-over): Tyco courtroom drama continues. What's really going on behind those closed doors. We'll talk with an alternate juror.
A massive search underway for a star student at the University of Wisconsin, victim of a baffling attack that now has investigators stumped.
AC 360 continues.
HEMMER: I'm Bill Hemmer. Good evening. Anderson is off tonight. Welcome back to 360.
The second half starts now. Condoleezza Rice under oath. The White House an about face.
Will it put an end to the negative headlines?
We'll get to that.
also the inside the Tyco jury. Are they on the brink of a mistrial?
We'll talk about what's going on behind the closed doors.
First though, let's get to tonight's "Reset" at the half hour.
Washington. First it was no, now it is yes. After refusing to allow Condoleezza Rice to testify before that 9/11 Commission. The Bush administration changing its mind. Under pressure from both Democrats and Republicans to allow Rice to testify publicly and under oath, especially, after the testimony last week of Richard Clarke in D.C.
Also in Washington. Civil rights fight for Muslim girls. The Justice Department, backing the rights of a young Muslim girl's effort to wear a head scarf to middle school. The girl and her parents sued the Muskogee, Oklahoma, public school district for ordering her to remove it because it violated the dress code in that district.
Washington. Supreme Court says no. Unanimous ruling, the nine justices blocked the release of photographs of the body of former White House official Vincent Foster. Foster who worked in the office of President Clinton and killed himself in 1993.
Atlanta, Georgia. Stretch if you like, but it may not keep you healthy. The CDC say that stretching before you exercise may not help you avoid injury. The say the published research does not prove things one way or the other.
More now on one of our top stories tonight. First they said she would not, now they say she will. National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice will now give public testimony under oath on that commission.
Did the White House cave to political pressure?
What's the impact possible in that testimony.
Julian Epstein is a Democratic strategist. He has direct experience in these hearings. Julian nice to see you, to see you. Good evening to you.
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be with you Bill.
Also, Leslie Sanchez, former White House official. Leslie, good evening to you.
Lets start with you for a second here.
Was the steam going too warm not to do this?
LESLIE SANCHEZ, FORMER WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL: No. I would say the Democrats stand to trump -- excuse me -- the president stands to trump the Democrats on this issue. I think the Democrats have made it a political football. It was always the intention of the White House for Dr. Rice to testify. And it is an excellent opportunity for Dr. Rice to have the last word, especially after we saw the flaming accusation that is came out of Dick Clarke last week. He's basicly let all the air out of that balloon. Now there could be a credible, reasoned, eloquent speech on behave of the White House, about what actually happened.
HEMMER: What about it, Julian. Democrats get their wish, some Republican itself get their wish.
Are you satisfied now?
EPSTEIN: I would remind leslie the chair is the former Republican governor of the state of New Jersey, Thomas Kean. Secondly, the problem for this and this was politics and it often is the case when the politics get too hot, the legal principles give some way. The real problem for the Bush administration here is that their strength has rested on two pillars. One, is the fact that they pin themselves as straight shooters. Secondly, they're tough on terrorism.
These hearings in particularly, Condi Rice's refusal to testify at this point, despite the fact she would go on TV, has undermined both those principle. It makes them look like they were asleep at the switch before 9/11 on the question of terrorism. And then Condi Rice's refusal to testify particularly given the many misstatements, for example, nobody ever knew planes could be used as missiles, now makes them looks like they are covering up the fact they were asleep at the switch. So this is a real big political problem for the White House.
HEMMER: What about it, Leslie, afraid of any questions?
SANCHEZ: Actually, Bill, I think the president has done a very good job of highlighting the separation of powers which is a significant issue and drawn attention to that. It was not news the president, vice president and Condi Rice were going to testify. It was an issue of how and what public forum -- if it was going to be actually, testimony before the full commission. The White House has been very forthcoming. With Dr. Rice's it's going to leave the Democrats wondering why they hit this issue so early. It was motivated by the Democrats to make it a political football and it's not going to work.
HEMMER: I mention that you've been -- had experience with these hearings before.
What's your first question to Dr. Rice if you're there?
EPSTEIN: I would -- the first question I would ask of Dr. Rice is, is I would say, Dr. Rice, you said three things. You have said there was never any evidence that planes could be used as missiles. You have said the white house was on full alert in the months of June and July. You have said that the White House was doing all kinds of activity to stop in a defensive way a terrorist attack when the facts are there were plenty of warning about planes being used as missiles. The White House was attempting to cut counter terrorism funds before 9/11. There was a counter terrorism task force that was assembled by the vice president, not a single meeting of this task force despite the fact Richard Clarke and others were saying there was increased rumors, there were increased information of a terrorist attack.
How is it you can, one, say all these weren't so and how was it that you weren't doing more, when clearly the evidence would say you should have been doing more.
HEMMER: Julian, thank you.
Final word, Leslie, go ahead.
And also, I want to know from you, are you concerned about any possible surprises in that testimony?
SANCHEZ: Not at all. The Democrats are look fog a smoking gun. They're not going to find one. This is not the first time Condi Rice has gone before the commission or at least members of this commission. And most importantly, mistakes were made in eight years, not in necessarily eight months. And that's the final word.
ESPTEIN: Except that two -- at least two terrorist were interrupted by the Clinton administration.
SANCHEZ: Politicizing. Politicizing.
(CROSSTALK) HEMMER: Put a period at the end of that sentence. Leslie Sanchez, Julian Epstein, thanks to both of you. We are still awaiting on word for the date of that testimony. You've got it. Appreciate your time tonight, both of you.
Now to the Tyco corporate corruption trial. The jury has been deliberating now for nine days. And once again today, the defense has asked the judge for a mistrial again. Worried that a lone holdout for an acquittal in a jury is getting undue pressure to reach a verdict. The judge in the case rejected that motion again.
What's going on inside that jury room? Good question. Alternate juror Darryl Barrett was with the sitting jury. Up until it began deliberations, he agreed to share his insights with us a bit earlier tonight.
HEMMER: Darryl Barrett, nice to have you here. An alternate juror let go about 11 days ago, that right?
DARRYL BARRETT, ALTERNATE JUROR: Yes, about 11 days ago.
HEMMER: Are you surprised to hear the reports about juror number four in this case?
BARRETT: Yes. I was very surprised -- the situation that was going on with juror number four.
HEMMER: Surprised, shocked, too? I've heard you say that before.
BARRETT: Very shocked. Yes.
HEMMER: Why so?
BARRETT: Because I never saw her act this way. I've been there the whole six months with her and never saw her react this way.
HEMMER: How much conversation did you have with her?
BARRETT: We would speak on a daily basis. She may compliment me on certain things. Or sometimes she would bring in snacks, cookies, brownies for the whole place her.
HEMMER: What would you talk about?
BARRETT: Well, she may compliment me, nice shirt or stuff like that there. But we never talk about the case or anything.
HEMMER: Did you know she was a lawyer?
BARRETT: Yes. I understood she's a lawyer. She told us she passed the bar and that she's a schoolteacher, retired schoolteacher.
HEMMER: So, that was part of your conversation? BARRETT: Yes.
HEMMER: Did you notice friction between juror number four and perhaps other jurors in the time you were there?
BARRETT: I seen her get into it with one of the other jurors before. She had told one juror to shut up once before.
HEMMER: She did?
HEMMER: Told another juror on this one occasion?
HEMMER: Was that the only time you ever saw this type of friction?
BARRETT: Other times jurors may have gotten into it with her, but it was nothing serious.
HEMMER: Do you think the jurors right now -- difficult question, I know. Are they going to reach a verdict in this case?
BARRETT: I believe so. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) they're very strong. I believe they can do it.
HEMMER: If you were still on that panel deliberating this, what would be your verdict?
BARRETT: It's hard to say. I have to weigh out with the rest of the jurors.
HEMMER: What did you think of the prosecution's case, than?
BARRETT: They had a strong case, but I don't see 100 percent guilty.
HEMMER: Oh, really, so you're undecided at the point you left?
BARRETT: Very undecided, yes.
HEMMER: Would you have changed your mind or not?
BARRETT: Sure. I would have had to weigh it out with the rest of the jurors and look over evidence again.
HEMMER: You know, Darryl, one thing we've talked about for a long time now are things like the $6,000 shower curtain, these party that is were thrown in Europe.
When you heard about the stories what was your reaction?
BARRETT: The shower curtain. I've seen the show curtain. I didn't see it was worth $6,000. HEMMER: You didn't. Didn't think it was worth it?
BARRETT: No. And it was a fabulous party for $2 million. I would like to have been there, but (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
HEMMER: And again, ultimately as the jury continues deliberations, do you think they will come to a decision there?
BARRETT: Yes. I'm sure they will pull together and get the job done.
HEMMER: Nice to see you Darryl. Thanks for talking to us, appreciate it.
HEMMER: Meanwhile, they deliberations continue here in New York.
Moving on now. Every Tuesday we look at a story that the media has all but forgotten.
Tonight, AIDS and HIV. As country, we've made great strides in the prevention and treatment of them. CDC says AIDS is on the rise of people over age 50 and that anyone can be at risk. "How Quickly We Forget."
HEMMER (voice-over): It was 1981 when we first began to hear about AIDS a devastating and always deadly disease. According to the National Institute of Health, there were 108 cases reported that year, and that number kept growing at an alarming rate. And as it grew, so did the fear and panic. How was it spreading? Who was the risk? Could it be stopped? By 1988 more than 100,000 cases were diagnosed and more than 62,000 people had died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: AIDS is going to be with us for a long, long time.
HEMMER: But new treatments were being developed, new drugs were on the market and HIV and AIDS educational messages were being delivered from the classroom to the television screen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you forget how risky sex can be, you can catch the AIDS virus.
HEMMER: Today, somewhere between 800,000 and 900,000 people live with HIV and AIDS here in the U.S. About 40,000 new cases are diagnosed many of them in Americans over the age of 50. According to the CDC, in 2000, people 50 and older made up 15 percent of reported AIDS and HIV cases. Since then, the number has jumped to 21 percent. Why, experts point to a variety of reasons. Viagra. It is allowing older men to have sex again and post menopausal women are not asking their partners to use condoms since pregnancy is no longer an issue. Also new drugs have been successful in controlling AIDS taking away the threat of death and those educational messages, well, they are almost all geared towards teens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just better be safe than sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just stupid not to.
ELTON JOHN, SINGER: Life. It is in fashion these days.
HEMMER: Experts suggest it is hard to believe that people who witnessed the horrors caused by AIDS could ignore the fact that everyone is at risk. It just shows you how quickly we forget.
HEMMER: In a moment here, shocking accusations today in the Scott Peterson case. We'll tell you what the defense attorney, Mark Geragos had to say about a potential juror and why he feels Peterson still can't get a fair shake in northern California.
Also, strip searched and humiliated. How a phone call is making fast food workers do some very improper things.
HEMMER: Justice served. In California, dramatic day in jury selection. The Scott Peterson murder trial. Defense lawyer Mark Geragos says a potential juror is bragging that she'll make sure Peterson gets, quote, "everything he deserves." Sounds more like a movie than a real-life murder trial. Ted Rowlands in Redwood City tonight with the latest.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The potential juror a grandmother estimated to be in her sixties seemed visibly shaken according to those in the courtroom when defense attorney Mark Geragos asked her if she was trying to lie her way on to the jury to convict Scott Peterson. Citing a phone tip to his office, Geragos claims an acquaintance of the potential juror said she was bragging about passing the initial juror test and said of Scott Peterson, quote, "he's guilty as hell and I'm going to get him."
Later Geragos labeled her as a stealth juror.
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: A stealth juror is somebody who comes into a courtroom and has an agenda and does not disclose that agenda and tries to get on the jury to execute that agenda.
ROWLANDS: The man providing the tip, according to Geragos, is a resident of the same seniors citizen center as the potential juror. The statements, according to Geragos, were allegedly made on a group bus trip to Reno, Nevada. In court, the potential juror repeatedly denied the accusations and at one point she raised her hand to seemingly acknowledge that she knew that she was under oath.
DEAN JOHNSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: What could happen to her? She could potentially be prosecuted by the San Mateo county district attorney's office for perjury and that carries a maximum penalty of four years in prison.
ROWLANDS: The judge issued a subpoena for the alleged whistleblower to come to court and tell his story under oath.
ROWLANDS: And the local D.A here in Redwood City tonight says he's aware of what happened in court but indicated it is a long shot that he is going to charge this woman with perjury.
HEMMER: Thanks. Ted Rowlands in California. Also covering the Peterson case for us.
Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom out with us tonight on 360. Nice to see you. It's a John Grisham movie, isn't it? "Runaway Jury."
LISA BLOOM, ANCHOR, COURT TV: Very much so.
HEMMER: Can this woman be in any trouble?
BLOOM: She could be. What we have right now is an allegation from Mark Geragos which she denies. She says she hasn't done anything wrong. Somebody out there may be claiming she said something wrong. That person hasn't come in to testify in any court.
HEMMER: So does Geragos have to go to the judge and prove it or not?
BLOOM: No. I think the most likely thing is she gets nixed from this jury. The prosecution probably doesn't want her on the jury. They don't want an issue for appeal. Why set themselves up. There are plenty of other jurors. Get rid of her.
HEMMER: So the judge wasn't talking both sides, they're thinking May and at that point we're going to get a decision, right?
BLOOM: Right. And we'll probably have this guy who was on the senior citizen trip with her that says she was talking trash about Scott Peterson. It is one thing to do that on a bus. It is another thing to come into court and be biased. Most jurors take their jobs seriously. You have the judge and his robe and the marble courtrooms. I'm not real concerned about juror bias in this case.
HEMMER: How about in a high-profile matter, is it possible the jurors come to the event with an agenda? And it's possible she's on this bus in Reno saying he's guilty as hell...
BLOOM: It's possible but I've got to tell you, I've analyzed a lot of juries and a lot high-profile cases especially when someone's life is on the line as Scott Peterson's is. Jurors tend to take their jobs very seriously. When they get into the deliberation room, they decide the case based on the evidence.
HEMMER: Bigger issue. Mark Geragos has consistently argued that he cannot get a fair trial in northern California. Does this help his argument? BLOOM: I don't think so. I think this is one example, this is an anecdote. Again, it's uncorroborated, unsubstantiated and everybody in the country knows about the Scott Peterson case. Where is he going to go? Where is he going to run? Everybody knows about the case.
HEMMER: Everybody says L.A. county. You want to get the best deal, go to southern California...
BLOOM: I don't know about everybody. The defense attorney surely would prefer L.A. county because it is defense-oriented traditionally. And, of course, that's where Mark Geragos' office is. I'm sure he'd be very happy to go there.
HEMMER: You know, I was a defense attorney in my last life.
BLOOM: I see.
HEMMER: Lisa, good to see you. Talk to you later. From Court TV, Lisa Bloom.
In a moment, a story you will not believe. A prank caller leads strip searches at a restaurant. In a moment, are fast food outlets falling victim to a vicious scam? We'll get to that.
Also tonight. Jay Leno, a new contract with NBC. The funny man laughing all the way to the bank in a big way.
HEMMER: Now to an incredibly bizarre story tonight. Someone is calling fast food restaurants and convincing managers to strip search employees and customers. It is happening in a number of states. How can it happen? I spoke to Sheriff Joseph Arpaio investigating one incident that is near Phoenix, Arizona.
HEMMER: I understand the manager received a phone call and this man who was on the other line identified himself as a policeman. Tell us what happened after that, Sheriff.
SHERIFF JOSEPH ARPAIO, VARICOPA COUNTY, AZ: Well, first of all, this is my hometown, Fountain Hills. I've been in law enforcement for 40 years. This is a bizarre type of situation. This is happening across the nation, not just in Fountain Hills, Arizona. A guy makes a phone call, says he's a policeman. Instructs the manager at Taco Bell to take a 17-year-old and, by the way, is not an employee. It is a customer into the back room, puts cardboard over the window, strip search the young girl, makes her do jumping jacks and then he does cavity searches. All under the directions of this so-called cop.
HEMMER: What was this so-called cop saying on the phone?
ARPAIO: Well, it was all over a possible theft and was telling this guy, the manager, to search her for drugs, and that type of thing. This has been occurring across the nation, in other states, it is a very dangerous situation and everybody says the 17-year-old is the victim and the manager is the victim. I want to pursue this. I think anybody that has any reasonable brains will know you don't do this type of activity even though a phony cop calls over a phone and instructs you to do it.
HEMMER: Sheriff, what would explain why they follow those instructions on the phone?
ARPAIO: Why he followed the instructions? That's a good question. You can't charge someone with stupidity. I don't know why he did it. These cases have never been prosecuted across the nation using the theory that the person was instructed by a phony cop to do that. So I'm going to continue to pursue this on all ends. We want to catch the guy that's been doing this. There's task force out of Massachusetts and other places. We're joining forces to try to take this deviant off the street.
HEMMER: Sheriff, a statement from Taco Bell. I'll read it for our viewers. Quote, "this is a cruel scam. We're doing everything within our power to protect our restaurants. Our restaurants are on high alert and have been given specific procedures on what to do if they receive a call like this. You say you're going to prosecute. On what charge?
ARPAIO: I didn't say I'm going to prosecute. I will get as much evidence as I can hoping for prosecution. It is about time that Taco Bell came to their senses. I sent a letter out Friday to all the corporate headquarters around the nation of the stores that have been hit. Taco Bell has been hit previously. Now, I'm happy to say that at least they came to their senses and they're going to notify all their chain and their managers to be on the alert.
HEMMER: Sheriff, do you believe this is emanating from Florida? Is that where the originating call began?
ARPAIO: I won't comment about our case. It looks like it could be. It looks like across the nation that the calls are emanating from Florida.
HEMMER: Thank you. Good to talk you to.
ARPAIO: Thank you.
HEMMER: In a moment here, the folks at NBC really do like Jay Leno. The night show host gets a new deal. How long and for how much? Both answers shocking the entertainment world tonight. Back in a moment with that.
HEMMER: It pays to be funny, really pays, indeed. Jay Leno the top-rated late night host just signed a new deal with NBC making him the host of "The Tonight Show" to the end of this decade and the payday is a big one. Jeanne Moos tonight on that payday today.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jay Leno signed his contract without controversy, unlike the last time Letterman signed.
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, "THE DAVID LETTERMAN SHOW": Can you believe there are two networks fighting over this crap?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like Letterman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Letterman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leno.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leno's got more (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is not so much I like Leno more. I dislike Letterman. I used to be a trooper and he used to speed down the highway all the time.
MOOS: Letterman may be speedier but Leno wins in the ratings. Nevertheless, Letterman makes more, reportedly $31 million a year, even with his new contract, Leno told the "New York Times," "I'm still not making Dave money."
We started thinking about what is a late-night laugh worth? Let's see. Leno will now make at least 25 million a year. About 30 jokes of monologue. That comes out to $3,768 a joke if you just count the monologue and not the rest of the show.
Do you think they're overpaid?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God bless them. Let them make the money.
MOOS: The biggest star in baseball A-Rod earns around $17,000 an inning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You deserve more. I'm serious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 36 million for you.
MOOS: 36 million? For three stories a week that works out to about $255,000 per story. Lest inflated salaries result in inflated heads.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Letterman?
MOOS: You like Letterman?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's the fat one isn't he? Which one is the tall, skinny one?
MOOS: That's Letterman. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't mind him. I like the heavier one.
MOOS: The heavier one with the lighter wallet. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
HEMMER: All right, Jeanne, thanks. Getting late here. I'm Bill Hemmer. Anderson's back tomorrow night. Right here. See you tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. Eastern time on "AMERICAN MORNING," the very latest on what's happening on Condoleezza Rice's upcoming testimony. See you then. Up next, "PAULA ZAHN NOW." Have a great evening. So long for now.
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