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American Morning
President Bush Changes Mind about Condoleezza Rice
Aired March 31, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
We now know Condoleezza Rice will testify before the Commission. The question is when? We'll ask the man in charge of that Commission live here this morning.
Trudging through forests and swamps in Wisconsin -- that desperate search for a college student missing now for five days.
And a huge refinery in Texas up in flames, but already today bouncing back. We'll explain this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Welcome back, everybody.
Also this morning, we're going to hear from Tom Keene -- he's the chairman of the 9/11 Commission -- about that decision to allow Condoleezza Rice to testify. He has said there are discrepancies between her statements and Richard Clarke's. We're going to get into what exactly those discrepancies are.
HEMMER: Also, this trial for Jayson Williams continues. Brian Neary is back with us again today talking about the manslaughter case and how the defense right now is trying to damage the witnesses who had testified on behalf of the prosecution earlier. Very interesting details in this case right now about what exactly happened in the moments that Guy Christofi was shot inside of Jayson Williams' home. We'll get to that in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Hello, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Good morning.
CAFFERTY: Nice to see you.
Coming up in the Cafferty File Wednesday, things people say. We'll tell you what Diana Ross is whining about now. It's always something.
And Donald Trump talks about the perks of that hit TV show "The Apprentice," as only Donald can characterize things. HEMMER: Yes, and the local papers here taking some shots at him. Did you see the headline today?
CAFFERTY: What?
HEMMER: "Donald Slump" with the casino issue.
CAFFERTY: Oh, the casinos may be in trouble.
HEMMER: Yes, yes, yes.
CAFFERTY: Hey, he's only down like $1.8 billion, though.
HEMMER: Sure.
CAFFERTY: There was a time 15 years ago he owed the banks almost $9 billion.
O'BRIEN: That's nothing.
CAFFERTY: He came back from that so.
HEMMER: He can make it up on Friday, I think.
CAFFERTY: Yes. Yes. Don't count him out yet.
HEMMER: The top stories now, top of the hour here.
The U.S. military confirming now five American soldiers were killed today in a roadside bombing near Falluja. That's about 40 miles west of Baghdad. At least four others were killed in a separate attack in the same city. Witnesses say rebels threw grenades at two civilian cars, setting them on fire. At least one of the charred bodies was then dragged through the streets. We're still working on details and identity in that second incident. We'll get it to you as soon as we get the word out of Baghdad.
OPEC expected to cut oil production today. The organization's 11 member countries meeting formally in Vienna, Austria. Oil ministers agreed last month to reduce that production starting on the 1st of April. They say they're worried that demand for oil will fall in the spring, causing prices to collapse.
Operations resumed at an oil refinery in Texas City. That is near Houston, Texas. The British Petroleum plant evacuated yesterday after an explosion sparked a fire. No injuries reported, luckily. A level four alert was issued for the community, just to be safe, urging residents to stay indoors.
The U.S. Supreme Court has overturned a ruling that would have released photos from the death scene of a top Clinton aide. Former Clinton administrator lawyer Vincent Foster committed suicide in Virginia back in 1993. A California lawyer had sought photos from the scene, saying they may prove Foster had been killed. The ruling makes it harder to force the federal government to release law enforcement files. Five women in L.A. suing Hooters. They claim they were secretly videotaped or photographed by the manager while they undressed and put on their waitress uniforms. The manager at the Hooters in West Covina now no longer working there. So far no charges have been filed against him.
8:03 now in New York.
O'BRIEN: If that's true, that's just gross.
HEMMER: Yes, that's right.
O'BRIEN: Come on. Ugh.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: President Bush has changed his mind about Condoleezza Rice and the 9/11 Commission.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have informed the commission on terrorist attacks against the United States that my national security adviser, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony. I've also advised Chairman Keene and Vice Chairman Hamilton that Vice President Cheney and I will jointly meet with all members of the Commission in a private session.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The chairman of the 9/11 Commission, Tom Keene, welcomes the White House decision.
The former New Jersey governor joins us this morning to talk about that reversal and what exactly it means to the Commission's investigation.
Good morning.
Nice to see you, sir, again.
THOMAS KEENE, CHAIRMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for coming in.
KEENE: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: When do you expect we're going to hear from Dr. Rice?
KEENE: I hope very shortly. We just got this information and got this deal worked out yesterday, so we haven't yet done the scheduling. But we're working with the White House, actually, starting today, to check her schedule, check the schedules of the commissioners and try to put it together.
O'BRIEN: Shortly meaning next week? KEENE: If we can, yes.
O'BRIEN: That's it.
KEENE: It's going to depend, because we want -- all the commissioners want to be there. So we want to get it around their schedules as well as her schedule. So it might not be too easy, but we hope to do it in the next week, 10 days.
O'BRIEN: You have been fairly adamant about the fact that you wanted Dr. Rice to answer questions under oath.
Specifically, what do you want to focus on in your questioning of her?
KEENE: Well, a whole series of things. First of all, in the transition from the Clinton to the Bush administrations, what did she say or what did they tell her? What did we know then about terrorism? What was the advice? Then what was the policies of the Bush administration as they proceeded ahead? And we want to clear up any discrepancies between her testimony and other people's.
And most of all, I suppose we want to know what the policy is now. I mean what are we doing, how are we doing it, how successful does she think we are and is she recommending any changes, are they going to go in any different directions?
O'BRIEN: You've used that word discrepancy several times to talk about what you're looking for.
KEENE: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Discrepancies between what Dr. Rice will say and what Richard Clarke has already said and what Dr. Rice has said previously, as well.
What specific discrepancies are you talking about?
KEENE: Well, I think the thing that Mr. Clarke emphasized most is the lack of attention by the Bush administration to the problem of terrorism. That's very different than what Condoleezza Rice says, what Colin Powell says, what Don Rumsfeld says, which is that the president's been very focused on this problem, even before 9/11 and was attempting to come up with a policy really, not only to contain al Qaeda, but to eliminate it.
O'BRIEN: How do you find the truth, though, in something like that, when we're not talking about a fact, you're talking about lack of attention, which really is a perception issue, not a specific factual issue, necessarily? I mean how do you get to the core of that?
KEENE: Well, we've got to sort through a lot of -- what a lot of people said, a lot of testimony and a lot of documents. I mean we've gotten access now to the most private memos at the White House. We've seen documents that no other commission in the history of the United States has ever had access to.
So we've got over two million pieces of paper. We've interviewed over a thousand witnesses. And out of all that, we're going to come to some conclusions.
O'BRIEN: You wanted to talk to Condi Rice under the -- you said, "I want to have her testimony under the penalty of perjury." And I wonder if that means you thought that maybe she's lying.
KEENE: No, and that was a misinterpretation. No, I don't think anybody is lying. What we wanted to do is make sure she was under the same sanctions everybody else was. I mean if you're going to ask all the Clinton people to testify under oath and you're going to ask Don Rumsfeld and Colin Powell to testify under oath, it was logical that all our public witnesses should testify under oath.
So it just made sense for the symmetry of the whole thing.
O'BRIEN: Minutes ago, we just heard the clip from President Bush saying that he and the vice president will testify before the Commission, but privately, not under oath.
Will people be satisfied with that or will they want to hear them like with Dr. Rice, under oath, in front of the public?
KEENE: Oh, I think a lot of people would like to hear them that way, but it's not going to happen. I mean presidents just don't do that. In fact, we're very grateful to the president for giving us testimony because most presidents in the past have said no. I mean even something as important as a Warren Commission, which was investigating the assassination of Kennedy, when they asked Lyndon Johnson to testify, he said no, I'll send you a written statement.
O'BRIEN: Do you think it compromises the investigation at all that they are testifying together? And I'm curious why you let them testify together as opposed to individually, as most people have done?
KEENE: Well, what we were interested in doing is having all 10 commissioners in on the questioning. I don't think it matters the answers we get, whether they testify together or apart. I don't know whether it was timing or what it was. But they asked to testify together and we didn't see -- Vice Chairman Hamilton and I didn't see how that compromised our investigation at all. We're going to ask the same questions, we're going to get the same answers, we're going to be able to take the same notes.
O'BRIEN: You've agreed no additional White House officials will have to testify publicly.
Why agree to that? Isn't that, to some degree, tying your own hands?
KEENE: No, because we didn't have any scheduled. So that wasn't giving up anything. We have seen all of them in private and we've gotten extensive testimony from the White House officials. So we have all the materials that we need for the report. We're going to have a number of other witnesses in public, particularly intelligence people. Mayor Giuliani is coming and a number of people.
But we didn't have any other White House officials scheduled for public testimony, so...
O'BRIEN: It was easy to agree to.
KEENE: It was very easy to agree to.
O'BRIEN: Former Governor Tom Keene is the commissioner for the 9/11, the chairman of the 9/11 Commission.
Nice to have you both, sir.
Thanks a lot.
KEENE: Thank you.
It's great to be back.
O'BRIEN: Nice to see you.
KEENE: Thank you, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Bill?
HEMMER: Almost 10 minutes past the hour now.
The OPEC oil cartel may be making it a bit more expensive for drivers in this country. Ministers meeting in Vienna say they're likely to approve a cut in production despite U.S. calls for a raise in output levels. OPEC's likely move comes with prices at the pump in this country at or near their record highs.
Ni the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, 69 percent say gasoline prices are an extremely important election year issue. It's also a situation getting a lot of attention from both candidates, as we hear today from Bill Tucker.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With gasoline prices headed well north of $2 gallon in some places, voter anger is rising and the political rhetoric is getting interesting.
REP. ED MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The Christians had a better chance against the lions than the American consumer has against the OPEC cartel.
TUCKER: Gasoline stations have become the backdrop of campaign moments with demands of action to bring prices down.
KERRY: We should be putting pressure on OPEC to raise the supply and not allow those countries to undermine the economies of the world.
TUCKER: The Republicans have their own response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: If Kerry's gas tax increase were law, the average family would pay $657 more a year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER: In the House, a bipartisan group has sent the Bush administration a letter asking that they file a case with the World Trade Organization against OPEC for restricting production and colluding to raise prices, none of which addresses the real problem, our ever increasing demand for energy.
Over the last 20 years, demand has risen an average of 1 percent a year. Refining capacity has not.
JOHN FELMY, AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE: We consume about 20 million barrels as day of petroleum. And we only have refining capacity to supply around 16.7 million barrels a day. So we need more refineries or we at least more refining capacity.
TUCKER: But building refineries is never a popular idea. It seems we would rather drive our cars, blame OPEC and avoid the real issue.
PAUL ROBERTS, AUTHOR, "THE END OF OIL": Wondering what OPEC is going to do at this meeting, this is all window dressing on a much larger question, which is a lack of an energy policy. You know, we have a patchwork energy policy and we have never really been willing to attack it in a comprehensive, long-term way.
TUCKER: They would rather yell about it.
(on camera): Ignore the fact despite the recent run-up in prices, Americans still pay considerably less than consumers in, say, Britain, where the price is about $5.25 per gallon.
Bill Tucker, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Also, we mentioned that poll earlier today. According to another poll from CNN, 56 percent of Americans think that rising gas prices are a major problem. Thirteen percent consider it at this point a crisis -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The FBI now joining the search for a student from the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Audrey Seiler has not been seen since early on Saturday morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEITH SEILER, MISSING STUDENT'S FATHER: Audrey's whole family is hopeful and remains confident that we will find Audrey safe. We have no reason to believe otherwise and we will continue to look for Audrey for as long as it takes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Friends and follow students have joined the family and police in their search for the 20-year-old woman. The bizarre twist to this case is that Audrey Seiler was attacked nearly two months ago. She was knocked unconscious on a street near her apartment and then woke up about a block away. Police say, though, they haven't made any connection between those two incidents.
HEMMER: Still to come here, lawyers for the former NBA star Jayson Williams trying to chip away at the prosecution's case. How successful were they yesterday and what will we hear today? We'll talk about that in a moment.
O'BRIEN: And Senator John Kerry is undergoing surgery. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us to discuss the procedure he faces ahead, as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Lawyers for the former NBA star Jayson Williams attacking the heart of the prosecution's case in that trial.
Eric Philips reporting today the defense is trying to put reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jayson Williams' defense presented Thomas Butters Tuesday, a second expert they hope will prove that Jayson Williams' gun misfired.
JOHN BUTTERS, GUN EXPERT: The shotgun, in my opinion, fired upon a forceful barrel closure, with the trigger kept from returning to its full forward position.
PHILIPS: The prosecution sought to deflate Butters' testimony, pointing out that he didn't closely examine the gun himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did not come and take apart that gun and measure it, did you, sir?
BUTTERS: I didn't have to. I had the photographs and the documentation by people that can make measurements that I can rely on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it doesn't tell you anything...
PHILIPS: The defense then called Detective Adam Mangino to the stand to try to refute testimony given earlier by former Williams' teammate, Benoit Benjamin. Benjamin testified that he saw Williams pull the trigger, killing limo driver Gus Christofi. But Detective Mangino interviewed Benjamin about a month after the shooting and his written report of the interview does not mention Benjamin's claim that Williams pulled the trigger.
Prosecutors jumped on the report's accuracy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What we have in this three page report are your words, isn't that true?
ADAM MANGINO, DETECTIVE: My words as to what Mr. Benjamin said to me, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But these are your words in this report, is that not correct?
MANGINO: Yes, that's true. That's absolutely true.
PHILIPS: Finally, the defense called Williams' long time friend, Troy Jackson, to talk about how Williams acted around friends in the days after the shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever hear Mr. Williams give any advice to them on what they should say to the police?
TROY JACKSON, DEFENSE WITNESS: Some of the times when they would try and get Jay to say certain things, the only thing I ever heard him say was, "Just tell the truth."
PHILIPS: Jayson Williams could spend up to 55 years in prison if the jury doesn't believe the shooting was a mistake.
Eric Philips, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Attorney Brian Neary represented Jayson Williams 10 years ago on a gun charge.
He's a criminal defense attorney, with us back here again on AMERICAN MORNING.
Nice to see you.
BRIAN NEARY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Bill.
HEMMER: Take the guy in the middle in that piece that Eric just showed us, Adam Mangino.
Was he credible?
NEARY: Mangino is a long time investigator. He's a former federal employee. He was a drug agent. He goes down and relates the story about how he went to Louisiana, after being called by Benoit Benjamin to have a conversation. The conversation included Benjamin talking about something about considerations. And he reported now as to what Benjamin said at this conversation.
HEMMER: Well, hang on one second.
Considerations defined as what?
NEARY: Well, that remains to be seen, whether it's money to testify on behalf of Williams, whether it was a job to testify on behalf of Williams, something to slant Benjamin's testimony towards Mr. Williams. It was only after that that when that was told to him absolutely, positively no, that only later on was he then struck a deal with the prosecutor.
HEMMER: You're a defense attorney. I'll play the role of prosecutor here. He meets with this guy for 30 minutes down in Louisiana, no notes taken, not recorded, just his thoughts and his words. You heard the prosecution attack exactly that.
Does it hold up?
NEARY: Not unusual that he doesn't have a tape recorder there because he you want to have a conversation to find out what the person has to say. It goes to the theme. The prosecutors are going to have to say well, Benjamin, in essence, was trying to do a double agent, so to speak, on Mangino. He didn't want to, you know, lie to him -- lie to Mangino intentionally to mislead him.
But it goes right back to the original theme of the defense in this case, is you can't believe Benoit Benjamin.
HEMMER: Here is what this case may hinge on. It may hinge on the credibility of Benjamin in this sense, what happened in that room that Benjamin saw or heard between himself, Jason West and Gus Christofi. Apparently there is an allegation by Benjamin that he used a curse word, Jayson Williams did, before the shotgun was fired.
Why is that so critical and proving that in this case?
NEARY: The curse would show Williams' attitude towards Christofi as well as Williams' awareness that Christofi was in the room at the same time. I think the prosecutor has to rely on that to show this extreme indifference to the value of human life, the probability that this might happen.
If the expletive is not in the case, if the jury does not believe that Williams cursed at Christofi, now the theory of accident becomes more and more possible.
HEMMER: So it goes to intent, then, and this extreme indifference is one of the more serious charges in this case?
NEARY: That would be the part of the case that would elevate this to aggravated manslaughter, as opposed to simply a reckless act, a reckless act with something else.
HEMMER: All right, quickly, in 15 seconds, if I could, the judge wants to talk to the two attorneys before court begins today.
NEARY: I think they're reviewing evidence as to how far the prosecution can go in cross-examining Jayson Williams if, in fact, he takes the stand.
HEMMER: Oh, interesting. So we're getting closer and closer to that decision.
NEARY: I think today or tomorrow, maybe today, as to the choice as to Williams testifying or not.
HEMMER: OK, thanks, Brian.
Good to see you, Brian.
NEARY: You're welcome, Bill.
HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the administration changes its position on Condoleezza Rice. Now it's even being criticized for that.
And who gets fired if one of Donald Trump's businesses goes bankrupt? Andy Serwer is going to tell us, just ahead.
That's on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The Justice Department has sent 50 prosecutors to Iraq to build a case against Saddam Hussein. Meanwhile, the deposed dictator isn't talking and last night David Letterman even managed to find the humor in that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE DAVID LETTERMAN SHOW," COURTESY CBS)
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST: Remember a couple of months ago the -- Saddam Hussein, remember Saddam, the evil dictator, Saddam Hussein? They found him hiding in a hole and they jerked him out of a hole and they shaved him and they checked him for fleas and they put him in a cell and ever since then, they've been interrogating Saddam Hussein.
Well, guess what? He's not saying a thing. He won't say -- and believe me, they have tried everything. And today he was slapped around by Richard Simmons. Even that -- yes, they say that Saddam is stonewalling. He's refusing to talk. He's not giving out any information. No, wait a minute. That Condoleezza Rice. That's a whole different...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Saw that one coming, huh?
O'BRIEN: Yes. That was kind of funny.
HEMMER: A mile away.
CAFFERTY: Fifty prosecutors?
O'BRIEN: Fifty.
CAFFERTY: I wonder who's paying for that. We probably are.
HEMMER: You.
CAFFERTY: Yes. You and me, buddy.
The question...
HEMMER: What's up?
CAFFERTY: This be up right here.
HEMMER: OK.
CAFFERTY: Al Gore and Al Franken stepping into the media spotlight. The "New York Observer" reporting the former vice president is close to a deal to buy a cable TV channel. Gore's team says they're going to turn this TV operation into a youth oriented public affairs channel.
And the liberal talk radio network Air America debuts today at noon with Al Franken. Al Franken is going to call his show "The Al Franken Factor." A funny guy, Al, don't you think?
Does America need additional liberal media outlets is the question?
And people have strong feelings on the subject.
HEMMER: And beating (UNINTELLIGIBLE), huh?
CAFFERTY: Yes, they do.
Jim says: "Having considered myself a lifelong liberal, I don't think the on air personalities that appear to be slated for Air America, this new programming, at all represent me. Jeanne Garofalo (ph) and Michael Moore are far left fringe whackos that each personify the term knee jerk liberals. They are the rabid radical left."
Mike in Arcata, California: "The more voices, the better, I say. But what we could really use is more intelligent, unbiased media outlets to promote critical thinking rather than partisan polemics. We need to raise the level of debate, not merely the volume."
Ramzi, Jersey City: "Absolutely. Media outlets that are accused of liberalism, such as National Public Radio and the "New York Times," are what the rest of the planet would consider moderate. We need real liberal media outlets. This way when you guys get compared to Fox News, you come across as moderate."
Peter in Houston: "Like we need a hole in the head. We're inundated by the liberal media, whose values are diametrically opposed to the values of most Americans on patriotism, abortion, same-sex marriage, cloning, etc.
And Ken in Nova Scotia: "Hey, Jack, so far the Question of the Day has reinstated an honor role program in Tennessee and compelled Condoleezza Rice to testify in public. Leave Franken and the boys to do their little thing and focus your power on the pursuit of issues that benefit all, like lower gas prices, banning Jennifer Lopez movies and getting Cadbury to tell us how they get the creamy chocolate inside those -- creamy caramel, rather -- inside those chocolaty little pockets in the Carmello bars."
O'BRIEN: Those are good.
HEMMER: You've had those.
CAFFERTY: Inside the...
HEMMER: Are you going to be a guest on Franken's show, by chance?
CAFFERTY: I doubt that very seriously.
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as well.
CAFFERTY: You know, one of the architects of that thing used to be a supervising producer here at AMERICAN MORNING.
HEMMER: Came with this network.
CAFFERTY: Shelley.
O'BRIEN: Yes, he was.
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
CAFFERTY: Left us to go over there and do this liberal...
HEMMER: And we shall see how it goes.
CAFFERTY: Yes. Hey, I wish him well. Why not?
HEMMER: You got anything else?
CAFFERTY: You know what? You know what's good about that?
HEMMER: I should never have asked.
CAFFERTY: No. You know what's good about this?
O'BRIEN: What were you thinking? Sorry. Go ahead.
CAFFERTY: Sit still. You'll upset your condition.
What's good about this is any time there's another network born, it's a potential job for those of us who could screw up and lose the one we have. So, you know, you always want to have options.
O'BRIEN: Can we get that number for Jack for later just in case?
HEMMER: Would you like that job?
CAFFERTY: I don't think they'd hire me. HEMMER: In a moment here, Senator John Kerry is not on the campaign trail today. In fact, he's in a hospital. Minor surgery today. We'll tell you what that's all about. How long will it keep him from campaigning?
Back in a moment, the bottom of the hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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Aired March 31, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
We now know Condoleezza Rice will testify before the Commission. The question is when? We'll ask the man in charge of that Commission live here this morning.
Trudging through forests and swamps in Wisconsin -- that desperate search for a college student missing now for five days.
And a huge refinery in Texas up in flames, but already today bouncing back. We'll explain this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Welcome back, everybody.
Also this morning, we're going to hear from Tom Keene -- he's the chairman of the 9/11 Commission -- about that decision to allow Condoleezza Rice to testify. He has said there are discrepancies between her statements and Richard Clarke's. We're going to get into what exactly those discrepancies are.
HEMMER: Also, this trial for Jayson Williams continues. Brian Neary is back with us again today talking about the manslaughter case and how the defense right now is trying to damage the witnesses who had testified on behalf of the prosecution earlier. Very interesting details in this case right now about what exactly happened in the moments that Guy Christofi was shot inside of Jayson Williams' home. We'll get to that in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Hello, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Good morning.
CAFFERTY: Nice to see you.
Coming up in the Cafferty File Wednesday, things people say. We'll tell you what Diana Ross is whining about now. It's always something.
And Donald Trump talks about the perks of that hit TV show "The Apprentice," as only Donald can characterize things. HEMMER: Yes, and the local papers here taking some shots at him. Did you see the headline today?
CAFFERTY: What?
HEMMER: "Donald Slump" with the casino issue.
CAFFERTY: Oh, the casinos may be in trouble.
HEMMER: Yes, yes, yes.
CAFFERTY: Hey, he's only down like $1.8 billion, though.
HEMMER: Sure.
CAFFERTY: There was a time 15 years ago he owed the banks almost $9 billion.
O'BRIEN: That's nothing.
CAFFERTY: He came back from that so.
HEMMER: He can make it up on Friday, I think.
CAFFERTY: Yes. Yes. Don't count him out yet.
HEMMER: The top stories now, top of the hour here.
The U.S. military confirming now five American soldiers were killed today in a roadside bombing near Falluja. That's about 40 miles west of Baghdad. At least four others were killed in a separate attack in the same city. Witnesses say rebels threw grenades at two civilian cars, setting them on fire. At least one of the charred bodies was then dragged through the streets. We're still working on details and identity in that second incident. We'll get it to you as soon as we get the word out of Baghdad.
OPEC expected to cut oil production today. The organization's 11 member countries meeting formally in Vienna, Austria. Oil ministers agreed last month to reduce that production starting on the 1st of April. They say they're worried that demand for oil will fall in the spring, causing prices to collapse.
Operations resumed at an oil refinery in Texas City. That is near Houston, Texas. The British Petroleum plant evacuated yesterday after an explosion sparked a fire. No injuries reported, luckily. A level four alert was issued for the community, just to be safe, urging residents to stay indoors.
The U.S. Supreme Court has overturned a ruling that would have released photos from the death scene of a top Clinton aide. Former Clinton administrator lawyer Vincent Foster committed suicide in Virginia back in 1993. A California lawyer had sought photos from the scene, saying they may prove Foster had been killed. The ruling makes it harder to force the federal government to release law enforcement files. Five women in L.A. suing Hooters. They claim they were secretly videotaped or photographed by the manager while they undressed and put on their waitress uniforms. The manager at the Hooters in West Covina now no longer working there. So far no charges have been filed against him.
8:03 now in New York.
O'BRIEN: If that's true, that's just gross.
HEMMER: Yes, that's right.
O'BRIEN: Come on. Ugh.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: President Bush has changed his mind about Condoleezza Rice and the 9/11 Commission.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have informed the commission on terrorist attacks against the United States that my national security adviser, Dr. Condoleezza Rice, will provide public testimony. I've also advised Chairman Keene and Vice Chairman Hamilton that Vice President Cheney and I will jointly meet with all members of the Commission in a private session.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The chairman of the 9/11 Commission, Tom Keene, welcomes the White House decision.
The former New Jersey governor joins us this morning to talk about that reversal and what exactly it means to the Commission's investigation.
Good morning.
Nice to see you, sir, again.
THOMAS KEENE, CHAIRMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for coming in.
KEENE: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: When do you expect we're going to hear from Dr. Rice?
KEENE: I hope very shortly. We just got this information and got this deal worked out yesterday, so we haven't yet done the scheduling. But we're working with the White House, actually, starting today, to check her schedule, check the schedules of the commissioners and try to put it together.
O'BRIEN: Shortly meaning next week? KEENE: If we can, yes.
O'BRIEN: That's it.
KEENE: It's going to depend, because we want -- all the commissioners want to be there. So we want to get it around their schedules as well as her schedule. So it might not be too easy, but we hope to do it in the next week, 10 days.
O'BRIEN: You have been fairly adamant about the fact that you wanted Dr. Rice to answer questions under oath.
Specifically, what do you want to focus on in your questioning of her?
KEENE: Well, a whole series of things. First of all, in the transition from the Clinton to the Bush administrations, what did she say or what did they tell her? What did we know then about terrorism? What was the advice? Then what was the policies of the Bush administration as they proceeded ahead? And we want to clear up any discrepancies between her testimony and other people's.
And most of all, I suppose we want to know what the policy is now. I mean what are we doing, how are we doing it, how successful does she think we are and is she recommending any changes, are they going to go in any different directions?
O'BRIEN: You've used that word discrepancy several times to talk about what you're looking for.
KEENE: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Discrepancies between what Dr. Rice will say and what Richard Clarke has already said and what Dr. Rice has said previously, as well.
What specific discrepancies are you talking about?
KEENE: Well, I think the thing that Mr. Clarke emphasized most is the lack of attention by the Bush administration to the problem of terrorism. That's very different than what Condoleezza Rice says, what Colin Powell says, what Don Rumsfeld says, which is that the president's been very focused on this problem, even before 9/11 and was attempting to come up with a policy really, not only to contain al Qaeda, but to eliminate it.
O'BRIEN: How do you find the truth, though, in something like that, when we're not talking about a fact, you're talking about lack of attention, which really is a perception issue, not a specific factual issue, necessarily? I mean how do you get to the core of that?
KEENE: Well, we've got to sort through a lot of -- what a lot of people said, a lot of testimony and a lot of documents. I mean we've gotten access now to the most private memos at the White House. We've seen documents that no other commission in the history of the United States has ever had access to.
So we've got over two million pieces of paper. We've interviewed over a thousand witnesses. And out of all that, we're going to come to some conclusions.
O'BRIEN: You wanted to talk to Condi Rice under the -- you said, "I want to have her testimony under the penalty of perjury." And I wonder if that means you thought that maybe she's lying.
KEENE: No, and that was a misinterpretation. No, I don't think anybody is lying. What we wanted to do is make sure she was under the same sanctions everybody else was. I mean if you're going to ask all the Clinton people to testify under oath and you're going to ask Don Rumsfeld and Colin Powell to testify under oath, it was logical that all our public witnesses should testify under oath.
So it just made sense for the symmetry of the whole thing.
O'BRIEN: Minutes ago, we just heard the clip from President Bush saying that he and the vice president will testify before the Commission, but privately, not under oath.
Will people be satisfied with that or will they want to hear them like with Dr. Rice, under oath, in front of the public?
KEENE: Oh, I think a lot of people would like to hear them that way, but it's not going to happen. I mean presidents just don't do that. In fact, we're very grateful to the president for giving us testimony because most presidents in the past have said no. I mean even something as important as a Warren Commission, which was investigating the assassination of Kennedy, when they asked Lyndon Johnson to testify, he said no, I'll send you a written statement.
O'BRIEN: Do you think it compromises the investigation at all that they are testifying together? And I'm curious why you let them testify together as opposed to individually, as most people have done?
KEENE: Well, what we were interested in doing is having all 10 commissioners in on the questioning. I don't think it matters the answers we get, whether they testify together or apart. I don't know whether it was timing or what it was. But they asked to testify together and we didn't see -- Vice Chairman Hamilton and I didn't see how that compromised our investigation at all. We're going to ask the same questions, we're going to get the same answers, we're going to be able to take the same notes.
O'BRIEN: You've agreed no additional White House officials will have to testify publicly.
Why agree to that? Isn't that, to some degree, tying your own hands?
KEENE: No, because we didn't have any scheduled. So that wasn't giving up anything. We have seen all of them in private and we've gotten extensive testimony from the White House officials. So we have all the materials that we need for the report. We're going to have a number of other witnesses in public, particularly intelligence people. Mayor Giuliani is coming and a number of people.
But we didn't have any other White House officials scheduled for public testimony, so...
O'BRIEN: It was easy to agree to.
KEENE: It was very easy to agree to.
O'BRIEN: Former Governor Tom Keene is the commissioner for the 9/11, the chairman of the 9/11 Commission.
Nice to have you both, sir.
Thanks a lot.
KEENE: Thank you.
It's great to be back.
O'BRIEN: Nice to see you.
KEENE: Thank you, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Bill?
HEMMER: Almost 10 minutes past the hour now.
The OPEC oil cartel may be making it a bit more expensive for drivers in this country. Ministers meeting in Vienna say they're likely to approve a cut in production despite U.S. calls for a raise in output levels. OPEC's likely move comes with prices at the pump in this country at or near their record highs.
Ni the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll, 69 percent say gasoline prices are an extremely important election year issue. It's also a situation getting a lot of attention from both candidates, as we hear today from Bill Tucker.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With gasoline prices headed well north of $2 gallon in some places, voter anger is rising and the political rhetoric is getting interesting.
REP. ED MARKEY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The Christians had a better chance against the lions than the American consumer has against the OPEC cartel.
TUCKER: Gasoline stations have become the backdrop of campaign moments with demands of action to bring prices down.
KERRY: We should be putting pressure on OPEC to raise the supply and not allow those countries to undermine the economies of the world.
TUCKER: The Republicans have their own response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: If Kerry's gas tax increase were law, the average family would pay $657 more a year.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER: In the House, a bipartisan group has sent the Bush administration a letter asking that they file a case with the World Trade Organization against OPEC for restricting production and colluding to raise prices, none of which addresses the real problem, our ever increasing demand for energy.
Over the last 20 years, demand has risen an average of 1 percent a year. Refining capacity has not.
JOHN FELMY, AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE: We consume about 20 million barrels as day of petroleum. And we only have refining capacity to supply around 16.7 million barrels a day. So we need more refineries or we at least more refining capacity.
TUCKER: But building refineries is never a popular idea. It seems we would rather drive our cars, blame OPEC and avoid the real issue.
PAUL ROBERTS, AUTHOR, "THE END OF OIL": Wondering what OPEC is going to do at this meeting, this is all window dressing on a much larger question, which is a lack of an energy policy. You know, we have a patchwork energy policy and we have never really been willing to attack it in a comprehensive, long-term way.
TUCKER: They would rather yell about it.
(on camera): Ignore the fact despite the recent run-up in prices, Americans still pay considerably less than consumers in, say, Britain, where the price is about $5.25 per gallon.
Bill Tucker, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Also, we mentioned that poll earlier today. According to another poll from CNN, 56 percent of Americans think that rising gas prices are a major problem. Thirteen percent consider it at this point a crisis -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The FBI now joining the search for a student from the University of Wisconsin, Madison. Audrey Seiler has not been seen since early on Saturday morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEITH SEILER, MISSING STUDENT'S FATHER: Audrey's whole family is hopeful and remains confident that we will find Audrey safe. We have no reason to believe otherwise and we will continue to look for Audrey for as long as it takes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Friends and follow students have joined the family and police in their search for the 20-year-old woman. The bizarre twist to this case is that Audrey Seiler was attacked nearly two months ago. She was knocked unconscious on a street near her apartment and then woke up about a block away. Police say, though, they haven't made any connection between those two incidents.
HEMMER: Still to come here, lawyers for the former NBA star Jayson Williams trying to chip away at the prosecution's case. How successful were they yesterday and what will we hear today? We'll talk about that in a moment.
O'BRIEN: And Senator John Kerry is undergoing surgery. Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us to discuss the procedure he faces ahead, as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Lawyers for the former NBA star Jayson Williams attacking the heart of the prosecution's case in that trial.
Eric Philips reporting today the defense is trying to put reasonable doubt in the minds of the jury.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Jayson Williams' defense presented Thomas Butters Tuesday, a second expert they hope will prove that Jayson Williams' gun misfired.
JOHN BUTTERS, GUN EXPERT: The shotgun, in my opinion, fired upon a forceful barrel closure, with the trigger kept from returning to its full forward position.
PHILIPS: The prosecution sought to deflate Butters' testimony, pointing out that he didn't closely examine the gun himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did not come and take apart that gun and measure it, did you, sir?
BUTTERS: I didn't have to. I had the photographs and the documentation by people that can make measurements that I can rely on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But it doesn't tell you anything...
PHILIPS: The defense then called Detective Adam Mangino to the stand to try to refute testimony given earlier by former Williams' teammate, Benoit Benjamin. Benjamin testified that he saw Williams pull the trigger, killing limo driver Gus Christofi. But Detective Mangino interviewed Benjamin about a month after the shooting and his written report of the interview does not mention Benjamin's claim that Williams pulled the trigger.
Prosecutors jumped on the report's accuracy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What we have in this three page report are your words, isn't that true?
ADAM MANGINO, DETECTIVE: My words as to what Mr. Benjamin said to me, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But these are your words in this report, is that not correct?
MANGINO: Yes, that's true. That's absolutely true.
PHILIPS: Finally, the defense called Williams' long time friend, Troy Jackson, to talk about how Williams acted around friends in the days after the shooting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you ever hear Mr. Williams give any advice to them on what they should say to the police?
TROY JACKSON, DEFENSE WITNESS: Some of the times when they would try and get Jay to say certain things, the only thing I ever heard him say was, "Just tell the truth."
PHILIPS: Jayson Williams could spend up to 55 years in prison if the jury doesn't believe the shooting was a mistake.
Eric Philips, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Attorney Brian Neary represented Jayson Williams 10 years ago on a gun charge.
He's a criminal defense attorney, with us back here again on AMERICAN MORNING.
Nice to see you.
BRIAN NEARY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Bill.
HEMMER: Take the guy in the middle in that piece that Eric just showed us, Adam Mangino.
Was he credible?
NEARY: Mangino is a long time investigator. He's a former federal employee. He was a drug agent. He goes down and relates the story about how he went to Louisiana, after being called by Benoit Benjamin to have a conversation. The conversation included Benjamin talking about something about considerations. And he reported now as to what Benjamin said at this conversation.
HEMMER: Well, hang on one second.
Considerations defined as what?
NEARY: Well, that remains to be seen, whether it's money to testify on behalf of Williams, whether it was a job to testify on behalf of Williams, something to slant Benjamin's testimony towards Mr. Williams. It was only after that that when that was told to him absolutely, positively no, that only later on was he then struck a deal with the prosecutor.
HEMMER: You're a defense attorney. I'll play the role of prosecutor here. He meets with this guy for 30 minutes down in Louisiana, no notes taken, not recorded, just his thoughts and his words. You heard the prosecution attack exactly that.
Does it hold up?
NEARY: Not unusual that he doesn't have a tape recorder there because he you want to have a conversation to find out what the person has to say. It goes to the theme. The prosecutors are going to have to say well, Benjamin, in essence, was trying to do a double agent, so to speak, on Mangino. He didn't want to, you know, lie to him -- lie to Mangino intentionally to mislead him.
But it goes right back to the original theme of the defense in this case, is you can't believe Benoit Benjamin.
HEMMER: Here is what this case may hinge on. It may hinge on the credibility of Benjamin in this sense, what happened in that room that Benjamin saw or heard between himself, Jason West and Gus Christofi. Apparently there is an allegation by Benjamin that he used a curse word, Jayson Williams did, before the shotgun was fired.
Why is that so critical and proving that in this case?
NEARY: The curse would show Williams' attitude towards Christofi as well as Williams' awareness that Christofi was in the room at the same time. I think the prosecutor has to rely on that to show this extreme indifference to the value of human life, the probability that this might happen.
If the expletive is not in the case, if the jury does not believe that Williams cursed at Christofi, now the theory of accident becomes more and more possible.
HEMMER: So it goes to intent, then, and this extreme indifference is one of the more serious charges in this case?
NEARY: That would be the part of the case that would elevate this to aggravated manslaughter, as opposed to simply a reckless act, a reckless act with something else.
HEMMER: All right, quickly, in 15 seconds, if I could, the judge wants to talk to the two attorneys before court begins today.
NEARY: I think they're reviewing evidence as to how far the prosecution can go in cross-examining Jayson Williams if, in fact, he takes the stand.
HEMMER: Oh, interesting. So we're getting closer and closer to that decision.
NEARY: I think today or tomorrow, maybe today, as to the choice as to Williams testifying or not.
HEMMER: OK, thanks, Brian.
Good to see you, Brian.
NEARY: You're welcome, Bill.
HEMMER: All right -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the administration changes its position on Condoleezza Rice. Now it's even being criticized for that.
And who gets fired if one of Donald Trump's businesses goes bankrupt? Andy Serwer is going to tell us, just ahead.
That's on AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: The Justice Department has sent 50 prosecutors to Iraq to build a case against Saddam Hussein. Meanwhile, the deposed dictator isn't talking and last night David Letterman even managed to find the humor in that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM "THE DAVID LETTERMAN SHOW," COURTESY CBS)
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST: Remember a couple of months ago the -- Saddam Hussein, remember Saddam, the evil dictator, Saddam Hussein? They found him hiding in a hole and they jerked him out of a hole and they shaved him and they checked him for fleas and they put him in a cell and ever since then, they've been interrogating Saddam Hussein.
Well, guess what? He's not saying a thing. He won't say -- and believe me, they have tried everything. And today he was slapped around by Richard Simmons. Even that -- yes, they say that Saddam is stonewalling. He's refusing to talk. He's not giving out any information. No, wait a minute. That Condoleezza Rice. That's a whole different...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Saw that one coming, huh?
O'BRIEN: Yes. That was kind of funny.
HEMMER: A mile away.
CAFFERTY: Fifty prosecutors?
O'BRIEN: Fifty.
CAFFERTY: I wonder who's paying for that. We probably are.
HEMMER: You.
CAFFERTY: Yes. You and me, buddy.
The question...
HEMMER: What's up?
CAFFERTY: This be up right here.
HEMMER: OK.
CAFFERTY: Al Gore and Al Franken stepping into the media spotlight. The "New York Observer" reporting the former vice president is close to a deal to buy a cable TV channel. Gore's team says they're going to turn this TV operation into a youth oriented public affairs channel.
And the liberal talk radio network Air America debuts today at noon with Al Franken. Al Franken is going to call his show "The Al Franken Factor." A funny guy, Al, don't you think?
Does America need additional liberal media outlets is the question?
And people have strong feelings on the subject.
HEMMER: And beating (UNINTELLIGIBLE), huh?
CAFFERTY: Yes, they do.
Jim says: "Having considered myself a lifelong liberal, I don't think the on air personalities that appear to be slated for Air America, this new programming, at all represent me. Jeanne Garofalo (ph) and Michael Moore are far left fringe whackos that each personify the term knee jerk liberals. They are the rabid radical left."
Mike in Arcata, California: "The more voices, the better, I say. But what we could really use is more intelligent, unbiased media outlets to promote critical thinking rather than partisan polemics. We need to raise the level of debate, not merely the volume."
Ramzi, Jersey City: "Absolutely. Media outlets that are accused of liberalism, such as National Public Radio and the "New York Times," are what the rest of the planet would consider moderate. We need real liberal media outlets. This way when you guys get compared to Fox News, you come across as moderate."
Peter in Houston: "Like we need a hole in the head. We're inundated by the liberal media, whose values are diametrically opposed to the values of most Americans on patriotism, abortion, same-sex marriage, cloning, etc.
And Ken in Nova Scotia: "Hey, Jack, so far the Question of the Day has reinstated an honor role program in Tennessee and compelled Condoleezza Rice to testify in public. Leave Franken and the boys to do their little thing and focus your power on the pursuit of issues that benefit all, like lower gas prices, banning Jennifer Lopez movies and getting Cadbury to tell us how they get the creamy chocolate inside those -- creamy caramel, rather -- inside those chocolaty little pockets in the Carmello bars."
O'BRIEN: Those are good.
HEMMER: You've had those.
CAFFERTY: Inside the...
HEMMER: Are you going to be a guest on Franken's show, by chance?
CAFFERTY: I doubt that very seriously.
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) as well.
CAFFERTY: You know, one of the architects of that thing used to be a supervising producer here at AMERICAN MORNING.
HEMMER: Came with this network.
CAFFERTY: Shelley.
O'BRIEN: Yes, he was.
HEMMER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
CAFFERTY: Left us to go over there and do this liberal...
HEMMER: And we shall see how it goes.
CAFFERTY: Yes. Hey, I wish him well. Why not?
HEMMER: You got anything else?
CAFFERTY: You know what? You know what's good about that?
HEMMER: I should never have asked.
CAFFERTY: No. You know what's good about this?
O'BRIEN: What were you thinking? Sorry. Go ahead.
CAFFERTY: Sit still. You'll upset your condition.
What's good about this is any time there's another network born, it's a potential job for those of us who could screw up and lose the one we have. So, you know, you always want to have options.
O'BRIEN: Can we get that number for Jack for later just in case?
HEMMER: Would you like that job?
CAFFERTY: I don't think they'd hire me. HEMMER: In a moment here, Senator John Kerry is not on the campaign trail today. In fact, he's in a hospital. Minor surgery today. We'll tell you what that's all about. How long will it keep him from campaigning?
Back in a moment, the bottom of the hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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