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American Morning
Bomb Found Along High Speed Train Line South of Madrid; Aftermath of Attacks in Fallujah
Aired April 02, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
U.S. forces have a message for insurgents and Iraqi leaders in Fallujah -- we will respond, they say, to the grizzly deaths of four civilians this week.
Israeli police clash with Muslims at a holy site in Jerusalem. It's the heaviest fighting at the site since the intifada started there in September of 2000.
Those stories and more straight ahead this hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: Breaking news out of Spain in a moment.
Welcome back.
Eight o'clock here in New York.
Heidi Collins with us today.
Soledad O'Brien has a nice long weekend, so we hope she's doing well with her family -- good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, too, Bill.
Other stories we're following this morning, there is talk that Fallujah could end up like Tikrit, walled off with barbed wire. We're going to hear what the military may have had in mind to control Iraqi insurgents and to retaliate for the brutal murder of civilians there.
HEMMER: Also, the jobs report out at the half hour here, 8:30 Eastern time. Not just a key economic indicator, it's become a key political indicator in this political season, as well. We'll get to it, as well. Andy is back with that, and so, too...
COLLINS: Jack Cafferty.
HEMMER: ... is our friend Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Time is running out for these jobs to start turning up here with that election on the horizon. Coming up in the Cafferty File, we'll find out why daylight savings time is, in fact, bad for workers everywhere. And some new poll results out on the subject of divorce.
COLLINS: All right.
CAFFERTY: You'll want to stay tuned for that.
HEMMER: And that we will.
Thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: It's pretty riveting stuff we're looking at.
HEMMER: That's right. We can't wait.
A developing story now, Madrid, Spain, and a serious one, too. A bomb found along a high speed train line south of Madrid.
By telephone, our bureau chief there in Madrid, Al Goodman is on the story -- Al, what have you found out?
AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, the interior minister of Spain has just held a news conference where he's confirmed that a bomb has been found on the high speed train line between Madrid and Seville. He says it contained about 10 to 12 kilos -- that's about 22 to 24 or 5 pounds -- of explosives, which he said might be dynamite. And, importantly, he said it was connected to a detonator that was connected to 136 meters -- that's about 300 feet -- of cable. So that apparently is how it was going to be detonated.
Now, this coming, Bill, just three weeks after the Madrid train bombings on the commuter trains in Madrid the killed 190 people and wounded more than 1,400 -- Bill.
HEMMER: Al Goodman, thanks, by telephone there in Madrid.
We will not leave this story for long. It just breaks last hour here. More when we get it.
Al, thanks for that update.
Now Heidi with more.
COLLINS: National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice will testify before the 9/11 Commission next Thursday, April 8. That according to the Commission. Commission members are interested in learning more about the transition between the Clinton and Bush administrations and what information was shared about al Qaeda. According to reports, the Bush administration has blocked some of those documents from the Clinton administration from being turned over to the 9/11 panel.
The House of Representatives is getting ready to vote on a pension bill. But Democrats say they'll fight the measure. If passed, the bill would save employers some $80 billion in pension payments over the next two years. The White House has threatened to veto the bill. The debate set to get under way this morning.
To Colorado now. Residents there are being forced to evacuate their homes in the face of a wind fed wildfire. According to fire officials, one home has been destroyed, nearly 80 others being threatened now. The blaze, which broke out Tuesday, has already consumed nearly 3,500 acres.
And in Virginia, a retired truck driver and his wife are the winners of the $239 million Mega Millions jackpot. The couple has some different opinions on what they'll do with their newfound wealth, though.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.R. TRIPLETT: I'm going to spend it somewheres. I don't know. Probably in real estate, the best lot. I'm going to spend it wisely, I'll put it that way.
PEGGY TRIPLETT: I'm going to shop till I drop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Good idea. The couple will take their fortune in a lump sum payment of nearly $142 million before taxes. It's said to be the second biggest single ticket jackpot ever.
HEMMER: The thing is, you're going to get a new toothpick, too, huh?
We've got some ideas for shopping for them.
COLLINS: Yes.
HEMMER: All right, but that list could be very long with that kind of cash.
COLLINS: It could be long. That's right.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: To the Pentagon now. Weekly prayers today in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Clerics condemn this week's mutilation of those four American contractors on Wednesday. The four men ambushed by insurgents, their vehicles burned, their bodies, now recovered, we're told, dragged through the streets in Fallujah.
While condemning the mutilations, those clerics did not criticize the killings.
The U.S., meanwhile, is vowing a precise and overwhelming response there.
And for more on this, to the Pentagon and Barbara Starr.
What are you hearing, Barbara -- good morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to you, Bill.
To show just how seriously all of this is taken, yesterday Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, CIA Director George Tenet and General John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, met here in the Pentagon. It was a regularly scheduled meeting, but the talk immediately turned to Fallujah and what to do about it.
Now, sources tell CNN that General Abizaid is pressing the case that the U.S. must move ahead with its existing strategy to try and turn security over to Iraqi forces as quickly as possible, to be seen to be moving ahead, across the country, with that strategy.
But yesterday, of course, a lot of very tough talk from coalition officials out of Baghdad. The Pentagon not quite ready to meet those words. But General Kimmitt yesterday, in Baghdad, basically drawing his line in the sand.
Here's a bit of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: We will not rush in to make things worse. We will plan our way through this and we will reestablish control of that city and we will pacify that city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: So, what can we expect to see in the next few days? Sources say a couple of things. Do expect to see the U.S. Marines 1st Marine Division moving back into Fallujah, trying to reestablish order and security. The military forces will be looking at these videotapes, seeing if they can identify names and find people to arrest. But there will also be humanitarian relief, the velvet glove, if you will -- more money for schools, education and projects.
As to the bottom line, who was responsible for these attacks? Officials say they simply do not know, but they are saying they are reminding everyone that Abu Musab Zarqawi is someone who is very interested in inciting unrest in Iraq, in sparking civil war between the Sunni and the Shia and they believe he is operating or his affiliates, his associates, are operating throughout that Fallujah area -- Bill.
HEMMER: Barbara Starr, thanks for that.
CNN military analyst, Retired Army Brigadier General David Grange with us now from Chicago -- General, welcome back.
Nice to see you here.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you.
HEMMER: You have a city of 300,000 in Fallujah.
How do you find the targets in that town? GRANGE: Well, just they have to work the intelligence. And a lot of the intelligence is street type, police type intelligence, and it's hard to find it, but they have to work it. And the idea is to get this inner core of insurgents that incite this outer core, or the followers, that just kind of go along in a mob mentality.
And so you have to go after these inner cells. And they're there. And they'll, I think, be able to do it.
HEMMER: The Marines just took over for the Army responsibility for that part of Iraq not too long ago.
Based on what you know about the Marine tactics and how they may differ from the Army, how do you see the Marines approaching this?
GRANGE: I don't think we're going to see too much difference. There was talk about that up front, using more of a nation building, integrate the Marines with the society. And some of that will happen. But you can only do so much of that. There are some security implications.
And so I think you're going to see a hand of passion and a hand of toughness. And you have to do both. You have to continue to help move this society along -- as you see from the films, you've got too many young adults, youth, running around the city with nothing to do. They have to be employed somehow. They have to continue to help the infrastructure move along.
But at the same time, those that need killing, those that need to be jailed, they need to move along and do that, and that's what will happen. You'll see a combination of both.
HEMMER: General, you told our producers last night "people will turn them in." That's a quote that I'm taking from your interview here.
How are you so confident they'll turn them in? And why would they have the incentive to do that, if you're operating in Fallujah today?
GRANGE: Well, I think there's a lot of people that really don't go along with the scenes of the mob and the anti-U.S. and coalition hatred that you see out there. There's a lot of people that want to get on with it. And they realize that they have to go along with the rest of Iraq. They can't be a separate enclave that's just a sea of terror and hate. They have to go along with the rest of the country. And it's going to happen. It's just a matter of when it's going to happen.
And so the coalition forces will help move that along. There's no choice. It would be bad informationally right now, the perception, if coalition forces did not do something. As the terrorists, the insurgents use the media to influence viewers, the coalition will use the media on footage of those that actually did some of these terrible acts. They have their faces. They'll know who they are and they'll go after them and they'll get them. HEMMER: Brigadier General David Grange, thanks for talking.
Appreciate your thoughts, always.
Thank you, from Chicago.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
HEMMER: All right.
Soon we will have a family member of one of the victims from Fallujah earlier in the week. We'll talk to him about reflections on his brother's service and what happened earlier in the week. Stay tuned for that here -- Heidi.
COLLINS: At least 14 Palestinians were taken into custody today after a clash with Israeli police in Jerusalem. The violence flared when Palestinian protesters began throwing stones at the Israelis after Friday prayers at the Al Aksa Mosque. Police said there were about a dozen injuries.
The Israelis used stun grenades to quell the protesters. The clash took place in an area that's considered sacred to both Jews and Muslims.
Questions remain in the case of Audrey Seiler. She's the Wisconsin student found alive after a four day disappearance. Police have put out a composite sketch -- you see it there -- of the man Audrey Seiler said abducted her at knifepoint on Saturday. The University of Wisconsin student was found alive Wednesday.
Here's what Madison's acting police chief is saying about the case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASSISTANT. CHIEF WRAY NOBLE, MADISON POLICE: Like in any other major investigation, there may be inconsistencies. But we are continuing forward with this investigation. It is not our role or the role of police, a police department, to speculate on the outcome of an investigation until it has been completed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Police will hold a news conference later this morning to discuss what they say is a new development in the case.
HEMMER: Jerry Zovko is aged 32, from Willoughby, Ohio. He was one of the four contractors killed earlier this week. We'll talk to some of his family members in a moment about his life. So stay tuned for that.
Also, the latest news from Spain, that breaking news, a bomb attack thwarted, and it could have been a serious one, too. We'll get to that, also, south of Madrid in a moment. COLLINS: Also, did the prosecution withhold evidence in the Jayson Williams case? We'll look at the latest charge from the defense with a former lawyer for Williams.
HEMMER: And Michael Jackson's 14-year-old accuser reportedly testifying this week to a secret grand jury. Live to California and what may have been said there.
Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: We want to get back to the aftermath of the attacks in Fallujah from earlier in this week.
Some of the victims now publicly identified.
Tom Zovko is the brother of one of the contractors killed in that attack earlier in the week.
He joins us live here to talk about his brother.
My sympathies to you.
TOM ZOVKO, BROTHER MURDERED CONTRACTOR: Thank you.
HEMMER: How are you doing?
ZOVKO: Good, considering.
HEMMER: Tell me about your brother.
ZOVKO: He was a unique individual. He was a great person. I can't say anything bad about him.
HEMMER: Age 32, from Willoughby, Ohio.
ZOVKO: He's actually from Euclid, Ohio.
HEMMER: Oh, he's from Euclid?
ZOVKO: We grew up in Euclid. Now we live in the...
HEMMER: OK. Right in the Cleveland, Ohio area, the northern part of the state.
ZOVKO: Yes, on the east side.
HEMMER: How long had he been in Iraq?
ZOVKO: He's been there since September of 2003.
HEMMER: What did he say about the work he was doing there?
ZOVKO: Well, he was there doing what needed to be done. He was, you know, in the military and when he left, got out of the military in, I believe it was '97, he continued in a military type career in special security consulting, contracting. He was a bodyguard and, you know, among other things.
He went there, you know, in September. He spent a lot of time in the Middle East when he was in the service and when he got out of the service, he met -- had some connections, met some friends there and worked internationally, really. And this last time when he left in September, he came to see me and my family before he left, when he had a chance to take a vacation. And he, when he left he said, you know, he wanted to go and do what he could to make it a better place.
HEMMER: Wow.
How has the pictures and the coverage influenced you this past week?
ZOVKO: It's, I've got, I have mixed emotions, very, extremely mixed emotions. I, you know, I try not to think about them, but I think they're necessary to show everyone what's going on and what happened -- he went there to prevent something like this.
HEMMER: The pictures are one thing, Tom. And the brutality and the details of the story are another.
Have you had time to reflect on that?
ZOVKO: No. Not as much -- no, no. I'm -- no. He -- it still hasn't sunk in.
HEMMER: Yes.
Do you blame the Iraqi people?
ZOVKO: No. No.
HEMMER: Do you...
ZOVKO: No, no, no, no, no, no.
HEMMER: What do you consider now about the situation and what you hear in Fallujah?
ZOVKO: I firmly agree with most of the officials that this is a small percentage, you know, of the people that want to keep it the way it was, you know? And these are the type of people that would do something like this. And that's how they kept it the way it was, by keeping control over the people, by doing stuff like this.
I firmly believe that. And so did my brother. You know, he was for freedom and, you know, for human rights for everybody, equality for everybody, you know.
HEMMER: How do you rationalize a resolution in Iraq? There are some who suggest this could be a war that goes on for a decade.
ZOVKO: You know, I firmly believe what needs to be done needs to be done. Now, I know that's a cliche. But this occurred. This happened to my brother because, without getting too political, the war should not have been called over. It's, what's going on, people are -- 600 people have died since the war was officially chalked up as a win, which it wasn't. And maybe the political war, but not the war with the factions that exist.
HEMMER: Yes, you still sound as if you feel there's a commitment there that should be fulfilled?
ZOVKO: Yes, exactly. My brother -- I -- my brother and I both feel that you don't start something that you don't -- you don't intend to finish and you don't do anything half, excuse me, halfway.
HEMMER: There were three others involved in that convoy of two vehicles.
Did you know anything about the other three men?
ZOVKO: No. No. I know that if my brother was with them he trusted them, because in his line of work, you don't associate with people you don't trust.
HEMMER: My best to you.
ZOVKO: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: Good luck to you and your own personal strength.
We'll remember your brother today.
Jerry Zovko, age 32, from Ohio.
Thank you, Tom, for sharing.
ZOVKO: Thank you.
HEMMER: Let's get a break here.
Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Fireworks in the courtroom yesterday at the Jayson Williams trial. The defense charges it was kept in the dark about evidence the prosecution has had for months. Twenty-three photographs of Williams' shotgun were not turned over to the defense until now.
Attorney Brian Neary represented Jayson Williams on a gun charge 10 years ago.
He joins us this morning to talk about this development and whether it could lead to a mistrial.
So what do you think?
BRIAN NEARY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning, Heidi. This is very important, because this information could have been used by the defense in the very heart of its case, that the gun malfunctioned. There are a number of things that could happen. One is a mistrial. That means, in essence, a do over. I doubt that anybody wants that to happen.
The most extreme thing would be that the judge would say this violation was so bad and you prejudiced and made this such an unfair trial, we have to dismiss these charges against you. Those are the two extremes.
The middle position is the defense may very well be able to open up its case again, allow it to put its experts back on the stand, who will now testify the information that they didn't know about that presumably would be helpful to them.
COLLINS: How does this happen?
NEARY: On one hand, it could be simple inadvertence. There's a lot that goes on in a case like this. There's a lot of witnesses.
The other thing could be -- and this is the accusation made by the prosecutor, by the defense -- is that the prosecutor chose either on its own to hold it back or that its expert, that the gentleman from Browning, in essence, didn't give it over to the prosecutor. But whatever the result is, the defense was clearly entitled to it and there should be some amends made for this violation.
COLLINS: All right, I have a question for you about the prosecution. But before we get to that, I just want to clarify a little bit.
Jayson Williams' lawyers, of course, are accusing the prosecution of misconduct now, yesterday, as well, because of hiding these notes or apparently hiding these notes and photographs.
What exactly, if you can clear this up, was the evidence in question?
NEARY: There were two things that weren't -- two types of things that weren't turned over. A series of notes that would have disclosed that the Browning expert had looked at the gun four months before the defense expert looked at it. And he had not only looked at the gun, but disassembled part of the gun and potentially disrupting or contaminating some of the evidence that may have fallen out. It's only speculation, because no one knows what would have happened at that time and the defense says we're at such a disadvantage.
Plus the fact that the state made a big deal that the defense expert had broken down the gun and disassembled it and maybe fully knowing that their own expert had done the very same thing four months earlier.
COLLINS: Hmm.
So, could this be considered prosecutorial misconduct then? NEARY: Prosecutorial misconduct is a term of law. It means that the prosecutor has done something intentionally, or even inadvertently, so badly that it pollutes the system. It could very, very well be. The question is what's the judge going to do about it -- from dismissal to mistrial or allowing the defense another shot at the information.
COLLINS: So then in your best guess, what options does this judge have? I mean besides declaring a mistrial.
NEARY: I think the most reasonable thing that he will do is allow the defense expert to relook at the information, to reevaluate his position, to come back and testify with regard to that, which arguably would be stronger for the defense. The judge may also tell the jury at some point that the prosecutor, whether inadvertently or internationally, held this information back and they may be able to hold that against the state for having done that.
COLLINS: All right, very good.
Brian Neary.
We've got a lot to clear up on this one, don't we?
NEARY: Thanks.
COLLINS: Appreciate your time this morning.
NEARY: Thanks, Heidi.
COLLINS: Bill?
HEMMER: In a moment here, Spain halting high speed rail service after a bomb found earlier today. The latest on that threat, a threat averted and luckily again for the Spanish people, three weeks to the day that Madrid was ripped in terror.
Back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: The latest news in your e-mail every morning. Sign up for AMERICAN MORNING quick news, cnn.com/am.
Watching and waiting now just minutes away from that jobs report. They are interested on Wall Street, at the White House and Andy Serwer's apartment here in New York City. Andy's back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right, almost 8:30 here in New York.
Welcome back.
Soledad is out today. Heidi Collins with us this morning again -- good morning to you.
COLLINS: Good morning to you.
HEMMER: The jobs report a few moments away. Andy Serwer is waiting for this one. The numbers as soon as they're released, in a moment here. We'll have them for you.
COLLINS: Also, Michael Jackson honored in Washington for his work fighting AIDS. But back in California, a grand jury was hearing testimony from his accuser.
HEMMER: Also, some doctors prescribe meditation and not medication for teenagers coping with stress. Sanjay Gupta today filling us in on the unusual treatment option. He's been looking into it. And we'll get to Sanjay in a moment.
COLLINS: All right, but for now, there is word this morning of fresh violence in Iraq. The Associated Press is reporting two people have been killed in a bombing attack near Kirkuk. It's said to be the work of a suicide bomber. We will have much more details as they come into us this morning.
And Spain's interior ministry says a bomb has been found along a high speed rail line near Madrid. CNN learning this information in the past hour. Bullet train service between Madrid and Seville has been stopped as a result.
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Aired April 2, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
U.S. forces have a message for insurgents and Iraqi leaders in Fallujah -- we will respond, they say, to the grizzly deaths of four civilians this week.
Israeli police clash with Muslims at a holy site in Jerusalem. It's the heaviest fighting at the site since the intifada started there in September of 2000.
Those stories and more straight ahead this hour here on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: Breaking news out of Spain in a moment.
Welcome back.
Eight o'clock here in New York.
Heidi Collins with us today.
Soledad O'Brien has a nice long weekend, so we hope she's doing well with her family -- good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, too, Bill.
Other stories we're following this morning, there is talk that Fallujah could end up like Tikrit, walled off with barbed wire. We're going to hear what the military may have had in mind to control Iraqi insurgents and to retaliate for the brutal murder of civilians there.
HEMMER: Also, the jobs report out at the half hour here, 8:30 Eastern time. Not just a key economic indicator, it's become a key political indicator in this political season, as well. We'll get to it, as well. Andy is back with that, and so, too...
COLLINS: Jack Cafferty.
HEMMER: ... is our friend Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Time is running out for these jobs to start turning up here with that election on the horizon. Coming up in the Cafferty File, we'll find out why daylight savings time is, in fact, bad for workers everywhere. And some new poll results out on the subject of divorce.
COLLINS: All right.
CAFFERTY: You'll want to stay tuned for that.
HEMMER: And that we will.
Thank you, Jack.
CAFFERTY: It's pretty riveting stuff we're looking at.
HEMMER: That's right. We can't wait.
A developing story now, Madrid, Spain, and a serious one, too. A bomb found along a high speed train line south of Madrid.
By telephone, our bureau chief there in Madrid, Al Goodman is on the story -- Al, what have you found out?
AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, the interior minister of Spain has just held a news conference where he's confirmed that a bomb has been found on the high speed train line between Madrid and Seville. He says it contained about 10 to 12 kilos -- that's about 22 to 24 or 5 pounds -- of explosives, which he said might be dynamite. And, importantly, he said it was connected to a detonator that was connected to 136 meters -- that's about 300 feet -- of cable. So that apparently is how it was going to be detonated.
Now, this coming, Bill, just three weeks after the Madrid train bombings on the commuter trains in Madrid the killed 190 people and wounded more than 1,400 -- Bill.
HEMMER: Al Goodman, thanks, by telephone there in Madrid.
We will not leave this story for long. It just breaks last hour here. More when we get it.
Al, thanks for that update.
Now Heidi with more.
COLLINS: National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice will testify before the 9/11 Commission next Thursday, April 8. That according to the Commission. Commission members are interested in learning more about the transition between the Clinton and Bush administrations and what information was shared about al Qaeda. According to reports, the Bush administration has blocked some of those documents from the Clinton administration from being turned over to the 9/11 panel.
The House of Representatives is getting ready to vote on a pension bill. But Democrats say they'll fight the measure. If passed, the bill would save employers some $80 billion in pension payments over the next two years. The White House has threatened to veto the bill. The debate set to get under way this morning.
To Colorado now. Residents there are being forced to evacuate their homes in the face of a wind fed wildfire. According to fire officials, one home has been destroyed, nearly 80 others being threatened now. The blaze, which broke out Tuesday, has already consumed nearly 3,500 acres.
And in Virginia, a retired truck driver and his wife are the winners of the $239 million Mega Millions jackpot. The couple has some different opinions on what they'll do with their newfound wealth, though.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.R. TRIPLETT: I'm going to spend it somewheres. I don't know. Probably in real estate, the best lot. I'm going to spend it wisely, I'll put it that way.
PEGGY TRIPLETT: I'm going to shop till I drop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Good idea. The couple will take their fortune in a lump sum payment of nearly $142 million before taxes. It's said to be the second biggest single ticket jackpot ever.
HEMMER: The thing is, you're going to get a new toothpick, too, huh?
We've got some ideas for shopping for them.
COLLINS: Yes.
HEMMER: All right, but that list could be very long with that kind of cash.
COLLINS: It could be long. That's right.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: To the Pentagon now. Weekly prayers today in the Iraqi town of Fallujah. Clerics condemn this week's mutilation of those four American contractors on Wednesday. The four men ambushed by insurgents, their vehicles burned, their bodies, now recovered, we're told, dragged through the streets in Fallujah.
While condemning the mutilations, those clerics did not criticize the killings.
The U.S., meanwhile, is vowing a precise and overwhelming response there.
And for more on this, to the Pentagon and Barbara Starr.
What are you hearing, Barbara -- good morning.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to you, Bill.
To show just how seriously all of this is taken, yesterday Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, CIA Director George Tenet and General John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, met here in the Pentagon. It was a regularly scheduled meeting, but the talk immediately turned to Fallujah and what to do about it.
Now, sources tell CNN that General Abizaid is pressing the case that the U.S. must move ahead with its existing strategy to try and turn security over to Iraqi forces as quickly as possible, to be seen to be moving ahead, across the country, with that strategy.
But yesterday, of course, a lot of very tough talk from coalition officials out of Baghdad. The Pentagon not quite ready to meet those words. But General Kimmitt yesterday, in Baghdad, basically drawing his line in the sand.
Here's a bit of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: We will not rush in to make things worse. We will plan our way through this and we will reestablish control of that city and we will pacify that city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: So, what can we expect to see in the next few days? Sources say a couple of things. Do expect to see the U.S. Marines 1st Marine Division moving back into Fallujah, trying to reestablish order and security. The military forces will be looking at these videotapes, seeing if they can identify names and find people to arrest. But there will also be humanitarian relief, the velvet glove, if you will -- more money for schools, education and projects.
As to the bottom line, who was responsible for these attacks? Officials say they simply do not know, but they are saying they are reminding everyone that Abu Musab Zarqawi is someone who is very interested in inciting unrest in Iraq, in sparking civil war between the Sunni and the Shia and they believe he is operating or his affiliates, his associates, are operating throughout that Fallujah area -- Bill.
HEMMER: Barbara Starr, thanks for that.
CNN military analyst, Retired Army Brigadier General David Grange with us now from Chicago -- General, welcome back.
Nice to see you here.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Thank you.
HEMMER: You have a city of 300,000 in Fallujah.
How do you find the targets in that town? GRANGE: Well, just they have to work the intelligence. And a lot of the intelligence is street type, police type intelligence, and it's hard to find it, but they have to work it. And the idea is to get this inner core of insurgents that incite this outer core, or the followers, that just kind of go along in a mob mentality.
And so you have to go after these inner cells. And they're there. And they'll, I think, be able to do it.
HEMMER: The Marines just took over for the Army responsibility for that part of Iraq not too long ago.
Based on what you know about the Marine tactics and how they may differ from the Army, how do you see the Marines approaching this?
GRANGE: I don't think we're going to see too much difference. There was talk about that up front, using more of a nation building, integrate the Marines with the society. And some of that will happen. But you can only do so much of that. There are some security implications.
And so I think you're going to see a hand of passion and a hand of toughness. And you have to do both. You have to continue to help move this society along -- as you see from the films, you've got too many young adults, youth, running around the city with nothing to do. They have to be employed somehow. They have to continue to help the infrastructure move along.
But at the same time, those that need killing, those that need to be jailed, they need to move along and do that, and that's what will happen. You'll see a combination of both.
HEMMER: General, you told our producers last night "people will turn them in." That's a quote that I'm taking from your interview here.
How are you so confident they'll turn them in? And why would they have the incentive to do that, if you're operating in Fallujah today?
GRANGE: Well, I think there's a lot of people that really don't go along with the scenes of the mob and the anti-U.S. and coalition hatred that you see out there. There's a lot of people that want to get on with it. And they realize that they have to go along with the rest of Iraq. They can't be a separate enclave that's just a sea of terror and hate. They have to go along with the rest of the country. And it's going to happen. It's just a matter of when it's going to happen.
And so the coalition forces will help move that along. There's no choice. It would be bad informationally right now, the perception, if coalition forces did not do something. As the terrorists, the insurgents use the media to influence viewers, the coalition will use the media on footage of those that actually did some of these terrible acts. They have their faces. They'll know who they are and they'll go after them and they'll get them. HEMMER: Brigadier General David Grange, thanks for talking.
Appreciate your thoughts, always.
Thank you, from Chicago.
GRANGE: My pleasure.
HEMMER: All right.
Soon we will have a family member of one of the victims from Fallujah earlier in the week. We'll talk to him about reflections on his brother's service and what happened earlier in the week. Stay tuned for that here -- Heidi.
COLLINS: At least 14 Palestinians were taken into custody today after a clash with Israeli police in Jerusalem. The violence flared when Palestinian protesters began throwing stones at the Israelis after Friday prayers at the Al Aksa Mosque. Police said there were about a dozen injuries.
The Israelis used stun grenades to quell the protesters. The clash took place in an area that's considered sacred to both Jews and Muslims.
Questions remain in the case of Audrey Seiler. She's the Wisconsin student found alive after a four day disappearance. Police have put out a composite sketch -- you see it there -- of the man Audrey Seiler said abducted her at knifepoint on Saturday. The University of Wisconsin student was found alive Wednesday.
Here's what Madison's acting police chief is saying about the case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASSISTANT. CHIEF WRAY NOBLE, MADISON POLICE: Like in any other major investigation, there may be inconsistencies. But we are continuing forward with this investigation. It is not our role or the role of police, a police department, to speculate on the outcome of an investigation until it has been completed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Police will hold a news conference later this morning to discuss what they say is a new development in the case.
HEMMER: Jerry Zovko is aged 32, from Willoughby, Ohio. He was one of the four contractors killed earlier this week. We'll talk to some of his family members in a moment about his life. So stay tuned for that.
Also, the latest news from Spain, that breaking news, a bomb attack thwarted, and it could have been a serious one, too. We'll get to that, also, south of Madrid in a moment. COLLINS: Also, did the prosecution withhold evidence in the Jayson Williams case? We'll look at the latest charge from the defense with a former lawyer for Williams.
HEMMER: And Michael Jackson's 14-year-old accuser reportedly testifying this week to a secret grand jury. Live to California and what may have been said there.
Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: We want to get back to the aftermath of the attacks in Fallujah from earlier in this week.
Some of the victims now publicly identified.
Tom Zovko is the brother of one of the contractors killed in that attack earlier in the week.
He joins us live here to talk about his brother.
My sympathies to you.
TOM ZOVKO, BROTHER MURDERED CONTRACTOR: Thank you.
HEMMER: How are you doing?
ZOVKO: Good, considering.
HEMMER: Tell me about your brother.
ZOVKO: He was a unique individual. He was a great person. I can't say anything bad about him.
HEMMER: Age 32, from Willoughby, Ohio.
ZOVKO: He's actually from Euclid, Ohio.
HEMMER: Oh, he's from Euclid?
ZOVKO: We grew up in Euclid. Now we live in the...
HEMMER: OK. Right in the Cleveland, Ohio area, the northern part of the state.
ZOVKO: Yes, on the east side.
HEMMER: How long had he been in Iraq?
ZOVKO: He's been there since September of 2003.
HEMMER: What did he say about the work he was doing there?
ZOVKO: Well, he was there doing what needed to be done. He was, you know, in the military and when he left, got out of the military in, I believe it was '97, he continued in a military type career in special security consulting, contracting. He was a bodyguard and, you know, among other things.
He went there, you know, in September. He spent a lot of time in the Middle East when he was in the service and when he got out of the service, he met -- had some connections, met some friends there and worked internationally, really. And this last time when he left in September, he came to see me and my family before he left, when he had a chance to take a vacation. And he, when he left he said, you know, he wanted to go and do what he could to make it a better place.
HEMMER: Wow.
How has the pictures and the coverage influenced you this past week?
ZOVKO: It's, I've got, I have mixed emotions, very, extremely mixed emotions. I, you know, I try not to think about them, but I think they're necessary to show everyone what's going on and what happened -- he went there to prevent something like this.
HEMMER: The pictures are one thing, Tom. And the brutality and the details of the story are another.
Have you had time to reflect on that?
ZOVKO: No. Not as much -- no, no. I'm -- no. He -- it still hasn't sunk in.
HEMMER: Yes.
Do you blame the Iraqi people?
ZOVKO: No. No.
HEMMER: Do you...
ZOVKO: No, no, no, no, no, no.
HEMMER: What do you consider now about the situation and what you hear in Fallujah?
ZOVKO: I firmly agree with most of the officials that this is a small percentage, you know, of the people that want to keep it the way it was, you know? And these are the type of people that would do something like this. And that's how they kept it the way it was, by keeping control over the people, by doing stuff like this.
I firmly believe that. And so did my brother. You know, he was for freedom and, you know, for human rights for everybody, equality for everybody, you know.
HEMMER: How do you rationalize a resolution in Iraq? There are some who suggest this could be a war that goes on for a decade.
ZOVKO: You know, I firmly believe what needs to be done needs to be done. Now, I know that's a cliche. But this occurred. This happened to my brother because, without getting too political, the war should not have been called over. It's, what's going on, people are -- 600 people have died since the war was officially chalked up as a win, which it wasn't. And maybe the political war, but not the war with the factions that exist.
HEMMER: Yes, you still sound as if you feel there's a commitment there that should be fulfilled?
ZOVKO: Yes, exactly. My brother -- I -- my brother and I both feel that you don't start something that you don't -- you don't intend to finish and you don't do anything half, excuse me, halfway.
HEMMER: There were three others involved in that convoy of two vehicles.
Did you know anything about the other three men?
ZOVKO: No. No. I know that if my brother was with them he trusted them, because in his line of work, you don't associate with people you don't trust.
HEMMER: My best to you.
ZOVKO: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: Good luck to you and your own personal strength.
We'll remember your brother today.
Jerry Zovko, age 32, from Ohio.
Thank you, Tom, for sharing.
ZOVKO: Thank you.
HEMMER: Let's get a break here.
Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Fireworks in the courtroom yesterday at the Jayson Williams trial. The defense charges it was kept in the dark about evidence the prosecution has had for months. Twenty-three photographs of Williams' shotgun were not turned over to the defense until now.
Attorney Brian Neary represented Jayson Williams on a gun charge 10 years ago.
He joins us this morning to talk about this development and whether it could lead to a mistrial.
So what do you think?
BRIAN NEARY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning, Heidi. This is very important, because this information could have been used by the defense in the very heart of its case, that the gun malfunctioned. There are a number of things that could happen. One is a mistrial. That means, in essence, a do over. I doubt that anybody wants that to happen.
The most extreme thing would be that the judge would say this violation was so bad and you prejudiced and made this such an unfair trial, we have to dismiss these charges against you. Those are the two extremes.
The middle position is the defense may very well be able to open up its case again, allow it to put its experts back on the stand, who will now testify the information that they didn't know about that presumably would be helpful to them.
COLLINS: How does this happen?
NEARY: On one hand, it could be simple inadvertence. There's a lot that goes on in a case like this. There's a lot of witnesses.
The other thing could be -- and this is the accusation made by the prosecutor, by the defense -- is that the prosecutor chose either on its own to hold it back or that its expert, that the gentleman from Browning, in essence, didn't give it over to the prosecutor. But whatever the result is, the defense was clearly entitled to it and there should be some amends made for this violation.
COLLINS: All right, I have a question for you about the prosecution. But before we get to that, I just want to clarify a little bit.
Jayson Williams' lawyers, of course, are accusing the prosecution of misconduct now, yesterday, as well, because of hiding these notes or apparently hiding these notes and photographs.
What exactly, if you can clear this up, was the evidence in question?
NEARY: There were two things that weren't -- two types of things that weren't turned over. A series of notes that would have disclosed that the Browning expert had looked at the gun four months before the defense expert looked at it. And he had not only looked at the gun, but disassembled part of the gun and potentially disrupting or contaminating some of the evidence that may have fallen out. It's only speculation, because no one knows what would have happened at that time and the defense says we're at such a disadvantage.
Plus the fact that the state made a big deal that the defense expert had broken down the gun and disassembled it and maybe fully knowing that their own expert had done the very same thing four months earlier.
COLLINS: Hmm.
So, could this be considered prosecutorial misconduct then? NEARY: Prosecutorial misconduct is a term of law. It means that the prosecutor has done something intentionally, or even inadvertently, so badly that it pollutes the system. It could very, very well be. The question is what's the judge going to do about it -- from dismissal to mistrial or allowing the defense another shot at the information.
COLLINS: So then in your best guess, what options does this judge have? I mean besides declaring a mistrial.
NEARY: I think the most reasonable thing that he will do is allow the defense expert to relook at the information, to reevaluate his position, to come back and testify with regard to that, which arguably would be stronger for the defense. The judge may also tell the jury at some point that the prosecutor, whether inadvertently or internationally, held this information back and they may be able to hold that against the state for having done that.
COLLINS: All right, very good.
Brian Neary.
We've got a lot to clear up on this one, don't we?
NEARY: Thanks.
COLLINS: Appreciate your time this morning.
NEARY: Thanks, Heidi.
COLLINS: Bill?
HEMMER: In a moment here, Spain halting high speed rail service after a bomb found earlier today. The latest on that threat, a threat averted and luckily again for the Spanish people, three weeks to the day that Madrid was ripped in terror.
Back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: The latest news in your e-mail every morning. Sign up for AMERICAN MORNING quick news, cnn.com/am.
Watching and waiting now just minutes away from that jobs report. They are interested on Wall Street, at the White House and Andy Serwer's apartment here in New York City. Andy's back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right, almost 8:30 here in New York.
Welcome back.
Soledad is out today. Heidi Collins with us this morning again -- good morning to you.
COLLINS: Good morning to you.
HEMMER: The jobs report a few moments away. Andy Serwer is waiting for this one. The numbers as soon as they're released, in a moment here. We'll have them for you.
COLLINS: Also, Michael Jackson honored in Washington for his work fighting AIDS. But back in California, a grand jury was hearing testimony from his accuser.
HEMMER: Also, some doctors prescribe meditation and not medication for teenagers coping with stress. Sanjay Gupta today filling us in on the unusual treatment option. He's been looking into it. And we'll get to Sanjay in a moment.
COLLINS: All right, but for now, there is word this morning of fresh violence in Iraq. The Associated Press is reporting two people have been killed in a bombing attack near Kirkuk. It's said to be the work of a suicide bomber. We will have much more details as they come into us this morning.
And Spain's interior ministry says a bomb has been found along a high speed rail line near Madrid. CNN learning this information in the past hour. Bullet train service between Madrid and Seville has been stopped as a result.
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