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CNN Saturday Morning News

Novak Zone: A look at Condi Rice, 9/11 Commission

Aired April 03, 2004 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this third hour of CNN SATURDAY MORNING. I'm Catherine Callaway.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Renay San Miguel. Thanks for making us a part of your day. A very busy third hour coming up. Here's what we've got going for you in the next hour.

More protests and more violence in Iraq. The people continue to voice their opposition to U.S. involvement in their homeland. We will head to Baghdad for the latest in a live report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASSISTANT CHIEF NOBLE WRAY, MADISON, WISCONSIN, POLICE: So we do not believe that there is a suspect at large, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLAWAY: An abduction that wasn't. Police now say this college student lied about being held captive. But questions remain in this bizarre case.

SAN MIGUEL: And is a diet worth dying for? A list of some diet supplements that could cost you your life. We'll take a closer look a bit later in the show.

First, here's what's happening at this hour.

CALLAWAY: High-speed trains are back in service today in Spain. The lines were shut down yesterday when a bomb was found along the tracks. Authorities say it's the same kind of explosive used in last month's bombings aboard Madrid's commuter trains. A group tied to al Qaeda is suspected of carrying out those attacks, which killed 190 people. But Spanish officials say it's too early to say who might have planted the bomb found yesterday.

And in Taiwan, the political opposition's making good on its promise to hold massive public rallies to protest the recent presidential elections there. The loser vows to keep it up until there is a recount of ballots cast for the incumbent, who narrowly won reelection two weeks ago. Lawyers for the president argue that a recount should cover all of the ballots.

Fire season has come early in Colorado, forcing evacuation of several communities northwest of Denver. The blaze, sparked Tuesday, has now grown to 8,000 acres, 30 percent contained now.

And in Miami, ash is falling like snow due to a fast-moving brush fire on the edge of the Everglades there. Efforts to contain the flames are being hampered by the dry, windy conditions.

SAN MIGUEL: Our top story this hour, Iraqi assailants target those they think are collaborating with the U.S. The latest victim, an Iraqi police chief. This new violence comes just days after deadly attacks in Fallujah.

CNN's Walter Rodgers is live in Baghdad with all the latest. He joins us now. Walter?

WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Renay.

There has indeed been a smorgasbord of violence here in Iraq this Saturday. The district police chief of Baghdad, one of the district police chiefs, was gunned down only 200 meters from his home. His driver was also killed. The assailants are unknown.

Additionally, another Iraqi family mourns today. A rocket fired by the insurgents fell on their home in the al-Dhoura (ph) neighborhood of Baghdad. One person killed, three others injured.

And outside the Baghdad police academy, a riot, 500 to 600 people rioted outside. It took gunfire from American soldiers to break that up.

But perhaps more worrisome for the Americans than any of this violence was a peaceful march through the southern Shi'ite suburbs of Baghdad this weekend. The crowds were huge, and for the Americans, they were most unfriendly. Shi'ites are 60 percent of the Iraqi population, and these bore a striking resemblance to their Iranian Shi'ite counterparts a generation earlier.

The Iraqi Shi'ites chanted anti-American slogans. They said they welcomed martyrdom and death to rid Iraq of the, quote, "American infidels." It was political muscle flexing the Americans can ill afford.

Now, in Fallujah, west of Baghdad, again, more trouble over the past two days. There have been sermons in mosques there condemning the mutilation of the bodies of those four American civilian contractors on Wednesday, but there was also defiance.

There was no condemnation of the murders at all. Indeed, there were defiant warnings from both Iraqis on the streets in Fallujah and Iraqi imams in the mosques during Friday prayers, warning the Americans not to come back into that town with any strength, or it would, quote, "be the graveyard of the Americans."

Renay?

SAN MIGUEL: Walter Rodgers, live in Baghdad, thank you, Walter.

CALLAWAY: Well, U.S. Marines are taking over the mission in Fallujah, the Iraqi town, known as the hotbed of anti-U.S. resistance. In a move that was already planned, the Marines are taking control from the Army. Wednesday's brutal killing of four U.S. civilian contractors in the city reminded many of a scene similar to the one in Somalia that occurred more than a decade ago.

But unlike Somalia, the U.S. has vowed to punish the people who carried out this attack.

And joining us to talk about Fallujah and the military mission at hand there is the -- our CNN analyst, Ken Pollack, is joining us from Washington.

Ken, thanks for getting up early with us this morning.

KENNETH POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Thanks, Catherine. Good to be here.

CALLAWAY: Good to have you here.

And tell us more about Fallujah. We know this is obviously a stronghold for Saddam Hussein. He built such a strong network there. How did he do that?

POLLACK: Well, Fallujah is an Iraqi tribal town. It's made up of a number of different Sunni Arab tribes, mainly Ubedh, Dulame (ph), a few other very important tribes. Saddam came from that same environment. He came from another tribe just up the river at Tikrit and very closely related to these other tribes.

During his 30-year reign, he relied on these tribes to fill out the ranks of his special Republican Guard, his special security organization, all of the other intelligence and security organizations that kept him in power.

And in return for their loyalty, he gave them tremendous benefits in terms of money, power, prestige, and really bought their loyalty.

CALLAWAY: And in a town like Fallujah, which is indeed like no other town in Iraq, what kind of retaliation, if any, are we going to see from U.S. forces?

POLLACK: Well, honestly, Catherine, I think it's going to be very difficult for the United States to figure out exactly who did this and bring them to justice. Obviously, the U.S. needs to be doing so, needs to try it, but in truth in a tribal town like Fallujah, where there are enormous bonds of loyalty, where keeping quiet and not informing authorities about someone who did something like this is the prevailing attitude, it's going to be extremely difficult.

CALLAWAY: And there's some discussion now about this perhaps being well planned. The streets were empty when this occurred. There were Iraqi television crews there.

POLLACK: Yes, you know, the fundamental problem we have, Catherine, is that this part of Iraq, Fallujah's part of what we keep calling the Sunni triangle, this part of Iraq is very hostile to the United States' presence. And as a result, it is a very conducive environment for the insurgents to operate in.

The insurgents are only a small part of the population, but since the rest of the population either doesn't dislike them or in some cases actually supports them, it's very easy for them to do what they want to do there.

CALLAWAY: We heard the military officials saying that they're using this video that clearly shows these crimes that were committed. They have photographs from this video. Armed even with that, with photographs of people who participated in this, are they going to have any luck finding these people in Fallujah?

POLLACK: Again, I think that they ought to try, obviously, but I think it's going to be very difficult. And it's why actually I think that we ought to be focusing our energies on a much bigger set of problems that get to the Fallujah issue, which is the fact that we have, unfortunately, alienated this big slice of Iraq's territory, this (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

CALLAWAY: But are you really going...

POLLACK: ... chunk of the population.

CALLAWAY: ... to be able to ease the tension there? I mean, what can the military do to ease that tension there?

POLLACK: The military can't. And that's the whole point, is, the Marines will go in, and honestly, with all due respect to my Army colleagues, the Marines probably will do a much better job. They understand this mission well.

But the fact of the matter is, this is not the kind of a problem that lends itself to a military solution. This really requires a political and economic solution.

CALLAWAY: All right, thank you very much, Ken, for getting up with us this morning, and for your insight.

Well, the Fallujah attack was reflected in some editorial cartoons this week. Take a look at this one from "The Denver Post." It says, "A sad count (ph) of hearts and minds, one (ph) versus lives and limbs lost."

SAN MIGUEL: Federal, state, and local law enforcement are warning terrorists might strike trains and buses in major U.S. cities this summer.

CNN's Elaine Quijano is live in Washington with the latest on this. Elaine?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Renay.

Well, federal law enforcement sources, first of all, are trying to emphasize that this information they've received is uncorroborated. They do acknowledge, however, that there is a, quote, "level of concern." Now, because of that, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security have sent out a message to law enforcement agencies across the country, and that message talks about an alleged plot against commercial transportation systems in major U.S. cities this summer.

Now, specifically, they would be possibly targeting buses and railways. According to this message, the plot calls for the use of improvised explosive devices, perhaps made of ammonium nitrate, or fertilizer, and diesel fuel. Now, the message goes on that the explosives may be concealed in luggage and carry-on bags, and those might include duffel bags and backpacks.

Now, as for when and where such an attack might happen, the only time frame given is this summer, and there are no specific cities mentioned. Now, the message was sent to federal, state, and local police agencies, and this was not meant to be a public announcement. Word of the message comes in the wake of recent events, however, in Madrid, the terrorist train bombings there. But officials say there is no connection to that and this particular warning.

Nevertheless, authorities here in the U.S. are taking precautions. Here in Washington, for instance, officials with the city's Metro system say that they are stepping up their patrols, they are enhancing their other security measures. But, again, officials, federal law enforcement sources, rather, emphasizing that this information that is being distributed to the law enforcement agencies nationwide is uncorroborated, Renay.

SAN MIGUEL: Elaine Quijano, joining us live from Washington, thanks so much.

Looking now at more of the week's developments in the war on terror, the requirement that foreign visitors be photographed and fingerprinted when entering the U.S. is now being extended to America's staunchest allies. The new rule, to take effect by September 30, will apply to citizens of 27 countries who have been allowed to travel here without visas.

High-speed train service between Madrid and Seville has resumed one day after a bomb was found under railroad tracks in Spain. Officials say it's the same type of explosive found -- used in last month's Madrid bombings.

A judge in Ottawa has set a bail hearing for Wednesday for a Canadian man being held in a counterterrorism probe. That investigation has led to the arrest of 11 men in three countries.

CALLAWAY: The realities of the decision to go to war in Iraq are still being drawn out, this time in comments from Secretary of State Colin Powell. Powell now says that some of his prewar arguments for war were based on what he calls flawed sources in the drumbeat that led to the invasion. Powell outlined his argument before the United Nations, saying that Iraq had mobile production facilities for biological weapons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, February 5, 2003) COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have diagrammed what our sources reported about these mobile facilities. Here, you see both truck- and railcar-mounted mobile factories. The description our sources gave us of the technical features required by such facilities are highly detailed and extremely accurate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLAWAY: Powell says that it now appears that that intelligence was not solid.

And Hans Blix says that the U.S., Britain, and other nations apparently had closed minds when it came to Iraq and banned weapons. The former U.N. chief weapons inspector tells the AP Radio that he told national security adviser Condoleezza Rice that he was not impressed with what the inspectors were finding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANS BLIX, FORMER CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR (on phone): I said to her that we were not impressed by the -- what we have got. And she said to me then that, Well, it's not the U.S. intelligence that is indicted, it's the Iraq that is indicted. So I think she genuinely believed it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLAWAY: Blix added that Rice believed that was more an indictment of Iraq rather than of U.S. intelligence.

Meanwhile, the government's reporting a massive jobs rebound. President Bush is hailing the March figure, which comes after months of job growth lagging way behind White House promises.

Campaigning in West Virginia, the president said the economy is strong and getting stronger.

The Labor Department says 308,000 jobs were created in March, while unemployment eased upward, reflecting more people again looking for work, but that's still nearly 2 million jobs fewer than when Bush took office.

Presidential rival Senator John Kerry has this response, "For too many families living through the worst job recovery since the Great Depression has been and continues to be far too painful, with nearly 2.6 million private sector jobs lost during the Bush presidency, America's families need and deserve a new economic strategy," ending quote.

Well, she said that she was abducted at knifepoint, and now police say that her story is bogus. We're going to take a closer look at the bizarre case of Audrey Seiler and what may have prompted her to lead police down a dead-end trail.

SAN MIGUEL: And a bit later, growing up is hard enough without having to deal with the added pressures of being bullied. We'll hear from students who have faced that problem and find out how they deal with it.

CALLAWAY: Plus, a pesky upper-level disturbance is bringing rain showers to parts of the Northeast and mid-Atlantic. Will it be a washout for the National Cherry Blossom Festival in Washington, D.C.? We'll let you know what you can expect with the nation's weather, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CALLAWAY: The country had never seen anything like it. One hundred and forty-eight tornadoes traveling together like a swarm of angry bees, ripping through 13 states in a 24-hour period. The largest twister attack ever recorded, 330 people dead, another 5,000 injured.

Well, join us tomorrow morning when a survivor travels back 30 years to relive that tragic day. He tells us how the unimaginable devastation changed his life forever. That's coming up live at 9:00 a.m. on "CNN SUNDAY MORNING."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASSISTANT CHIEF NOBLE WRAY, MADISON, WISCONSIN, POLICE: Due to continuing inconsistencies with this investigation and the lack of any evidence to support her allegations of being abducted, we do not believe that there is a suspect at large related to the second reported abduction. So we do not believe that there is a suspect at large, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAN MIGUEL: A stunning statement about an apparent tall tale. For days, Wisconsin police looked for the person who abducted Audrey Seiler. Now police answering the question of who done it are saying, nobody. The claim of abduction was part of a hoax, police say, that Seiler made up. Apparently the 20-year-old college student had gaping holes in her story.

So what would cause Seiler and others like her to fake a disappearance?

For some possible answers, we are joined now by Dr. Joseph Haraszti, a psychiatrist specializing in adolescent and child psychiatry. He joins us live from Los Angeles.

Dr. Haraszti, thank you for being with us today.

DR. JOSEPH HARASZTI, CHILD AND ADOLESCENT PSYCHIATRIST: Sure. It's my pleasure. Thank you.

SAN MIGUEL: So is it something as simple as just a cry for attention, or is there something more complex involved here?

HARASZTI: Well, I think the simplest thing to say is that, you know, this is an attention-seeking young woman who wants her 15 minutes or seconds of fame. However, I think that would be too callous a way to look at it. I think this was most likely a very serious cry for help in someone who is described as an honors student, who in many ways had the perfect life. One of her friends described her as an amazing girl. She was obviously well liked.

However, someone who has such a perfect life, someone who seemingly has everything, has no way out. In essence, she's locked into her own prison of the persona that she had created.

SAN MIGUEL: And (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

HARASZTI: So -- Yes.

SAN MIGUEL: I wanted to get to the kind of detail that she went into to concoct this story, apparently concoct this story, buying the duct tape and the rope, using a computer to check, you know, for wooded areas and the five-day forecast. Is that common in situations like this, when you say they're creating this persona?

HARASZTI: No, obviously it's not common. This is clearly a very bright person, someone who had thought about this carefully. But I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that this must have been driven by a tremendous amount of inner sense of emptiness, loneliness, a tremendous sense of emotional pain. My guess is that she probably had a number of losses in her life, possibly the breakup with a boyfriend.

However, she was used to being perfect. She was a 4.0 student. And maybe it was very difficult for her to reach out and ask for help directly.

SAN MIGUEL: What kind of warning signs should the parents have been looking for here, or what can parents look for if they think they're facing a similar situation?

HARASZTI: Well, I think the most important thing is to maintain lines of communication with your child, your teenager. Now, this is a young woman who has gone away to college from nearby Minnesota, who obviously was doing very well, but probably that there were -- there were problems at school, and she was just afraid to come out and tell it to her parents or to people close to her. She wanted to maintain this perfect image.

SAN MIGUEL: And final question here, and I don't mean to put you on the spot, but let's say, just for the sake of argument, you're her doctor now, she's your patient, and you're counseling both her and the parents. What do you do at this point?

HARASZTI: Well, first of all, I would like to determine whether or not she is psychotic, whether or not this is just a personality disorder, whether or not she suffers from severe depression, which should be treated aggressively with medication and so on. So that would be the first (UNINTELLIGIBLE), to do a very careful assessment.

Having done that, then I would like to find out what was going on in her life that would trigger her to do something like this. And obviously there has been precedent recently. Most of these situations turn out with a very unhappy, tragic, grisly ending, such as Carlee's (ph) disappearance, many others. However, the ones that turn up, like Elizabeth Smart, Jessica Lynch, they come back heroines, they are -- they receive a tremendous outpouring of affection, sympathy, and nurturance.

And I think that's what she was looking for. Behavior is shaped by its consequences. So we need to look at what was missing in her life and why was she so desperate to put herself into this victim passive role to receive the nurturance and love that she so desperately needs.

SAN MIGUEL: Dr. Joseph Haraszti is a child and adolescent psychiatrist. Thank you for joining us this morning. We do appreciate your insight.

HARASZTI: Thank you.

SAN MIGUEL: Catherine, back over to you.

CALLAWAY: Well, Condoleezza Rice will finally meet with the 9/11 commission next week. But what could they ask her that hasn't already been asked? And did the president cave to pressure of having her testify? All questions waiting for answers in The Novak Zone.

And our morning e-mail question this morning, should jury members be completely shielded from media scrutiny? We'll get your response, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAN MIGUEL: Jacqui Jeras keeping an eye on the weather on this first weekend in April.

CALLAWAY: Yay, spring is here!

SAN MIGUEL: Yes.

CALLAWAY: Jacqui, are you there?

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm here. Hello.

SAN MIGUEL: Hello.

CALLAWAY: We thought you took a spring break or something.

SAN MIGUEL: That's right.

JERAS: I think a lot of people...

SAN MIGUEL: She's out on the beach.

JERAS: ... are on spring break, aren't they?

SAN MIGUEL: Yes. CALLAWAY: They are.

JERAS: And I think a lot of people in the Southwest. You know, people go to Phoenix, it's one of the places a lot of people go to for spring break. I think they're dreaming they were in Florida today. But don't worry, the weather is going to get better. We've had this pesky upper-level system here across the Southwest, and it's been bringing in showers, it's been bringing in thunderstorms, and very, very cool conditions.

Let's go ahead and show you a picture of Phoenix this morning, show you what it looks like from our sister station there, KPNX-TV. I know the chief meteorologist, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) McLaughlin (ph), good friend of mine. Looking for a high of only 66 in Phoenix this afternoon. Average high is 83 degrees, just to give you a good idea of how cold it actually is in the Phoenix area.

Tomorrow looks like it's going to be another chilly one. Showers and thunderstorms associated with that system caused some heavy rain yesterday in the Scottsdale area, about an inch and three quarters, about an inch and a half in Apache Junction. Phoenix proper had about 68 hundredths of an inch, but you had a little bit more scattered across parts of downtown.

Some of the thunderstorms may be severe as you head farther off to the east and to southeastern parts of New Mexico and into western Texas.

Rest of the country looks good outside of our upper-level system also into the Northeast. This one still a wet maker. We're going to talk about that and the cool-down on the way before the top of the hour.

Back to you guys.

SAN MIGUEL: We will see you then.

JERAS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) spring break.

SAN MIGUEL: All right. Thanks so much, Jacqui.

CALLAWAY: Thanks, Jacqui.

SAN MIGUEL: Our top stories now, first to Baghdad, a march by supporters of top Shi'ite cleric Mofada al-Sadr (ph) follows the arrest of his chief deputy. The detention comes a day after al-Sadr announced his active support for two of Israel's biggest enemies, Hamas and the Lebanese-based Hezbollah.

High-speed rail service in Spain is back on track after officials found a bomb along part of the track. Authorities say the 26-pound explosive contains the same material used in the Madrid bombings last month.

Well, we've been asking you to weigh in on our e-mail question this morning. And that is, should jurors be completely shielded from media scrutiny? This is, of course, prompted by the result of the Tyco trial, which ended in a mistrial.

Here is what some of you had to say.

CALLAWAY: Well, you've had a lot to say about it, I can tell you that...

SAN MIGUEL: Yes, yes.

CALLAWAY: ... any time you talk about the media, you know you're going to get lots of comments.

Here's one from Stephen. "The jury system should be completely taken out. It is as antiquated as trial by combat. It's a holdover from a time when a jury -- a juror was actually a peer. Nowadays, that isn't too likely."

SAN MIGUEL: Hmm. And this from Mark in Indianapolis. "I recently served on a jury, and getting people willing to do so is difficult. Allowing the media to pursue jurors and have access to their personal information will discourage even more people from participating in their civic duty."

CALLAWAY: And Kelly from California says, "No, keeping jurors away from the press is aching to having secret trials, and there go your human rights. Also, it's against the First Amendment, as the Supreme Court ruled in the Michael Jackson case. If you're going to judge someone, be a good American and play fair."

All right, stay with us, everyone. More troubles for Ozzie Osborne and family. This time, daughter Kelly is in need of some help.

And why does Michael Jackson's attorney want to talk to the grand jury? We have the details coming up after the break.

This is CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAN MIGUEL: From the commission to the campaign. We enter The Novak Zone in just a couple of minutes to talk about the world of politics.

CALLAWAY: Welcome back, everyone. We have that story coming up.

But first, we have what's happening at this hour.

A California judge could decide April 30 whether Michael Jackson will stand trial on charges of child molestation. But it could be a moot point if a grand jury decides to issue in indictment in the case. Jackson's attorneys are hoping to present evidence to the grand jury before a decision is rendered.

And Kelly Osborne spent her first night in drug rehab last night. The Osborne parents say that she checked into the treatment center to deal with an addiction to painkillers. The youngest Osborne child was taken to the facility by her brother, Jack. He underwent treatment for drug addiction last year.

Tip-off tonight for the final four. The last remaining teams battle in two games for a chance at the NCAA championship. The first game in San Antonio features Oklahoma State against Georgia Tech. And in second game, Connecticut faces Duke.

SAN MIGUEL: After originally declining to testify, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice has decided to appear in front of the 9/11 commission. But what caused the change of heart? For a look at the politics of the decision, we turn now to CNN's Bob Novak for this week's edition of The Novak Zone.

And Bob, a lot of folks are saying, well, it was the political pressure that the president was under to make sure that Condi Rice would appear before that commission. Is that your take on this?

ROBERT NOVAK, THE NOVAK ZONE: That's exactly correct. The fascinating thing, Renay, is that anybody who knew anything about politics knew that the president eventually would have to agree to have her appear. It was one of those things where you couldn't resist.

The question is, why did they wait so long? Why did it look like he was being forced to do it? Why didn't they just say so in the first place? And that's a problem with this president and other presidents, they get very stubborn on presidential privilege. And they -- instead of giving -- conceding this point early and cutting the political damage, they wait till it looks like they're doing it under pressure.

Political mistake.

SAN MIGUEL: So now that she is going to appear this Thursday, do we really expect her to say anything different than what she's already told the networks when she's had those interviews?

NOVAK: Absolutely not. The only difference is that it's under oath, and she's going to say exactly the same thing. Now, there is going to be some of the members of the commission who might be a little bit partisan, are going to try to trip her up, but she's a competent and experienced person, should have done this a long time ago.

It's going to be one of these enormous media events with this tremendous coverage, and everybody is dissecting every word. But I think there's going to be precious little news made.

SAN MIGUEL: And the -- you've covered many of these commissions before on Capitol Hill, and you talked about, you know, the idea that they start off promising bipartisanship, promising just to get to the truth, and -- but the partisanship does appear sooner or later. Is anything with this particular commission stands out for you in regards to all the others you've covered?

NOVAK: Yes, I think, Renay, that they were -- that the leadership was extraordinary. These former governor of New Jersey, Tom Kean, the Republican chairman, and former congressman from Indiana, Lee Hamilton, the Democratic vice chairman, very outstanding. And I think they were very sincere in wanting this to be breast implant -- nonpartisan, rather than bipartisan.

The problem is, it's such -- it's an election year. We're getting closer to the election. There are members of the commission, I think, of Richard Ben-Veniste, who is a very partisan Democratic lawyer, who wants to put an edge on it. And then there are Dem -- Republicans, a former governor of Illinois, Jim Thompson, who respond.

And it just automatically devolves into a state of partisanship. The reason they have an independent commission instead of a -- having a Senate committee or a House committee do it, or even a bicameral do it, is that this is supposed to get away from politics. But the issue is so politics, so political, they can't do it.

SAN MIGUEL: All right. Now for the big question. And this is a very serious big question. Final four time here. Sorry about those Terps, the Terrapins, the Maryland Terrapins, are not making it. But you got two ACC teams here, Duke and Georgia Tech. You know, if you had to pick one or the other, who would you go with?

NOVAK: Well, I -- of course, I'm a Maryland fan, so I root against all of the other ACC teams. But the team I like, and nobody gives them much credit, is -- it's the little engine that could, is Oklahoma State, with John Lucas III, the wonderful little point guard. His father was an old all-American from Maryland, a friend of mine, John Lucas, Jr.

And so watch those Oklahoma State Cowboys, if they can get by Georgia Tech, they may be all the way. But it is a -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- but I can tell you one thing, you can watch "CAPITAL GANG" tonight at 7:00 Eastern, and go back to the final four after you're finished.

SAN MIGUEL: Oh, I was going to say, that's a good way to get that plug in. Or if you got the TiVo, make sure the TiVo's going on "THE CAPITAL GANG" as well.

Robert Novak, thanks so much for your time. We'll see you next time.

NOVAK: Thank you, Renay.

SAN MIGUEL: And be sure to tune in to CNN for our live coverage of Rice's appearance before the 9/11 commission. That comes your way Thursday at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time.

CALLAWAY: So how can you beat a bully without beating a bully? Coming up, you'll meet two students who give some terrific advice for parents and teachers on how to handle this.

Stay with us, everyone. CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CALLAWAY: So how big of a bother are bullies? Well, about eight out of every 100 elementary middle and high school students say that they were bullied at least in 2001, that's according to one study. That number is up 3 percent from the year before. And the study shows that middle school could be the roughest, 14 percent of sixth-graders say that they have been bullied. Only 9 percent of freshman report the problem. And by the 12th grade, the number drops to 2 percent.

But roughly, it's estimated 30 percent of American children are bullies or either victims or bullies themselves, sometimes both. And the U.S. surgeon general and Department of Health and Human Services are determined to do something about it. They've launched a campaign called Take a Stand, Lend a Hand, Stop Bullying Now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Callaway (voice-over): Tricia Smith and Robert Hunter learned about bullying firsthand.

ROBERT HUNTER, AGE 15: I got into a lot of fights, fifth grade, third grade. In the past, I've had experiences where they come and they bother you on a regular basis, and I didn't really know how to deal with that situation. And now I know what is the best thing to do, avoid them, not talk to them, or stay away from them. But before, I didn't know that.

CALLAWAY: Experts say anger and fear force some victims to bring a weapon to school.

HUNTER: They probably don't even tend to use it to show the bully that if you bother me again, I'll do something to you, or they might bring a knife to school. If you bother me again, I'll stab you.

CALLAWAY: Fights and weapons often get the victim in trouble with the school and the police. Patricia Smith, being female in a mostly male school, is a constant challenge.

TRICIA SMITH, AGE 17: It's hard. Sometimes, I mean, being singled out, being different, you know, it is hard. You have to, I don't know, deal with a lot, put up with a lot, hear a lot, avoid a lot, ignore a lot.

CALLAWAY: Tricia finds support from teachers.

SMITH: I sometimes, like, walk down certain hallways or put myself so, like, the teachers are around.

CALLAWAY: Experts suggest most bullying occurs away from adults in front of other students, as the need for power and attention demands an audience that seldom tells.

HUNTER: If you tell the teacher, usually what the teacher will do is go get that person and say, Robert told me that you did this, and then that person will now go tell everybody else that Robert told. And you have more problems now.

CALLAWAY: And what do some parents advise?

TURNER: Well, from my dad, he says that if somebody hits you, you hit them right back, hit them harder, you know, you let them know not to do it again.

SMITH: They don't want to see their child being bullied, they don't want to see their child is the weak one. They want them to stick up for themselves, defend themselves, but that's not the answer.

CALLAWAY: Especially today, with stricter laws and easily available weapons, the consequences can be deadly. Which is why Robert tries to follow his mother's advice.

TURNER: The best thing to do is to try to keep your dignity, don't go and stoop down to their level. That's what they want you to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CALLAWAY: So let's take this subject a bit further. Joining us now here in our studio is public school administrator Dr. Garry McGiboney. He is a senior executive director for the DeKalb County schools in Atlanta.

Thank you very much for being with us.

DR. GARRY MCGIBONEY, SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR: Good morning.

CALLAWAY: Tricia and Robert are so eloquent. I know they're in your school system. And they said it so well about what parents often say, Stand up for yourself, get out there and don't let them run you over. I know I've said that to my kids. The wrong thing to say.

MCGIBONEY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), that's the American way to fight back, stand up, don't put up with anything.

CALLAWAY: Right.

MCGIBONEY: And that's very difficult for children to take that advice, because they know in their heart when we give that advice that that's not the best thing to do. They're not going to stand up to the bully, because if they were going to do that, they would have already done that.

So if we force to them take that track, then they have to look for, as Robert said, the great equalizer, which too often could be a weapon.

What we need to do instead is to listen to them, ask questions. That's a very powerful moment for us to have with our child. Well, why are you -- why do you think you're being bullied? Where did it take place? How often has it taken place? Have you told anyone at school? Are your friends around when it takes place? If they're around, how do they respond to it?

That can be a real learning moment, and that's information that you can acquire that you then later, if necessary, share with school officials.

CALLAWAY: And as Robert and Tricia also said, then when you go to the teacher, sometimes well-meaning teachers will then pull the bully or accused bully over and say, "Robert said you did this." And that's just the worst thing you can do.

MCGIBONEY: Well, it is the worst thing you can do, because you can imagine what that leads to. It leads to more bullying, and probably brings the bully's crowd into more a situation of confrontation instead of actually dealing with the problem. But that's a quick fix. We think that's a quick fix.

Instead, teachers need to have more training from school systems, public school systems, private schools, at the university and college level, training teachers in better methods of how to handle that. When a child goes to a teacher and says, I'm being bullied, that takes a lot of courage to admit that. And it's very important how we respond to that, and there are effective ways to respond to that.

CALLAWAY: And shouldn't it be more the action that that person has allegedly taken, instead of who it is against? I mean, should there not be reports of bullying made to the principal and the teacher almost anonymously?

MCGIBONEY: Absolutely, because it's a school climate issue. It's not just an individual issue, it's a school climate issue. You want to deal with it as a school climate issue, so that a school-wide program can be developed to address where does the bullying take place, and why is it taking place in the school?

CALLAWAY: So as a parent, you go to the principal and you say, Don't want my kid's name used, but we're getting reports at home that so-and-so is taunting this child and bullying this child. OK, so then the principal goes and talks to the student, and, more often than not, Dr. McGiboney, don't they find that all the other students are well aware of this person being a bully?

MCGIBONEY: Oh, yes. It's not uncommon for everyone in the building to know who the bully is.

CALLAWAY: Except the teachers.

MCGIBONEY: Except the teachers. And we have -- adults are not smart enough to know what's going on in the school. We have to depend on students to tell us what is going on in the school. And that's part of the school climate, where you encourage students to tell us what is happening in the school, where it's occurring, maybe even when it's occurring, and perhaps even an idea of why it's occurring, so we then can address it on a larger scale.

CALLAWAY: What should a parent and a teacher look for, for a possible child victim of the, of bullying? What should they look for in a kid?

MCGIBONEY: Well, probably one of the most obvious things is withdrawing, not wanting to go to school, not being able to articulate why the child does not want to go to school, or skipping a class, a particular class, avoiding parts of the building where a class may be, a change in their appearance, even a change in their attitude toward the teacher. They might become either quieter or maybe talk back. Or there is a change in appearance, attitude, behavior.

CALLAWAY: U.S. surgeon general now launching this campaign last month, trying to address bullying in American schools, realizing that it is a crisis now in the school systems. We are way behind other countries in this, aren't we?

MCGIBONEY: We're way behind. We've had a problem of perception in our nation, where it's toughen up, Buttercup, fight back. This is a rite of passage. I went through it when I was a child, it's your turn...

CALLAWAY: OK.

MCGIBONEY: ... it builds character. And that's just not accurate at all.

CALLAWAY: Got to change. Dr. McGiboney, thank you so much for being with us this morning for your insight, and for sharing your students with us. They were remarkable and very eloquent.

MCGIBONEY: Yes, they were.

CALLAWAY: Renay, to you now.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, hold the diet. Coming up, a look at diet supplements that experts say can be harmful if swallowed.

And good morning, Denver. We've got your complete weather forecast coming up about in about eight minutes from now.

CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAN MIGUEL: Well, you've seen the ads, supplements promising you a boost in health or a way to help you lose unwanted pounds. What the ads don't tell you is that some of those substances can be dangerous, even deadly. And there is now a list of these so-called dirty dozen herbal supplements to watch out for. That list is in the latest issue of "Consumer Reports" magazine.

And joining us today live from New York is the publication's chief medical adviser, Dr. Marvin Lipman.

Dr. Lipman, thanks for being with us today.

DR. MARVIN M. LIPMAN, "CONSUMER REPORTS": How do you do, Renay?

SAN MIGUEL: Doing fine. We're going to show our viewers the list of these so-called dirty dozen. But I know that the -- that your magazine has categorized them. Which of these really concerns you more than the others? LIPMAN: Well, the top criminal on our most-wanted list is Aristolochia. Aristolochia is an herb that can be grown in various parts of the world, but made its ingress in China, and it's been used for many, many years, probably centuries. It wasn't until 1993 at a Belgian weight-loss clinic, when the drug was being used for that purpose, that approximately 105 women came down with kidney disease. Eighteen of these developed renal cancer.

SAN MIGUEL: Now...

LIPMAN: And that's where an attention was focused on this herb.

SAN MIGUEL: And one of them is also Andro, which (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the FDA has already taken some steps on that. It did that last month. I have to ask you, thought, in, you say on your Web site that the problem here is the 1994, part of the problem is the 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act. It's known as DSHEA. You say that doesn't really give the FDA the tools that it needs to regulate this, the supplement industry.

LIPMAN: Not only doesn't it give the FDA the tools to regulate the industry, but it effectively puts handcuffs on the Food and Drug Administration, because the law states that dietary supplements, when they come on the market, really do not have to submit any safety clauses, as do prescription drugs.

In addition, there is no mechanism whereby manufacturers of these substances have to report adverse effects to the Food and Drug Administration. In other words, it's a voluntary action on the part of the manufacturers, and you and I know that voluntary means not at all.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, let me tell you what the Council on Responsible Nutrition, who I'm sure you're familiar with, that's the, it's the dietary supplement industry's trade association, what they say about DSHEA. And we have this on the -- for our screen.

Under a headline that says, "DSHEA, It Makes Sense, Let's Make It Work," "The Council on Responsible Nutrition and its member companies support stronger enforcement of DSHEA. More than 150 million Americans take supplements, and they deserve the right to choose from a wide variety of high-quality, safe, and effective products."

What do you think about that?

LIPMAN: I couldn't agree with that more. But there is no regulation with regard to safety, let alone efficacy. We have no proof that these things work at all. And mandatory reporting has to be part of that process.

SAN MIGUEL: All right, we've got -- the more -- there is more information on the so-called dirty dozen. We're showing the ones that are called "likely hazardous" on the screen, including yohimbe, which is being called, many call a poor man's Viagra. We're going to have to move on from here, though. Dr. Marvin Lipman, we appreciate your time, the adviser for "Consumer Reports." And we should say also that there is more information on this at consumerreports.org.

Thank you for your time today. We do appreciate it.

LIPMAN: Thank you, Renay.

SAN MIGUEL: Now, suspicious supplements is a big issue for the Food and Drug Administration. The agency says it doesn't need a smoking gun to prove harmful effects.

In a newly released report, the FDA says it doesn't need direct evidence of human harm before taking steps to stem the sale of a dietary supplement. Current law says the agency must show significant or unreasonable risk from a supplement, something the FDA says it can do by simply looking at animal and test-tube studies, or by studying similar products.

CALLAWAY: You know, I hate to say, there was a list of 12. I think I may have tried one of those.

SAN MIGUEL: You may have tried one or two.

CALLAWAY: Yes, I know.

SAN MIGUEL: I think a lot of folks. These are very popular.

CALLAWAY: That's right.

All right, "ON THE STORY" coming up. Kelli Arena, is that who's standing by?

KELLI ARENA, "ON THE STORY": That sure is. Good morning.

CALLAWAY: It's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- Good morning. What is coming up?

ARENA: Well, we're "ON THE STORY" from Washington to New York to London. We'll talk to Barbara Starr about Pentagon strategy after the bloodiest day yet for Americans in the occupation in Iraq. Dana Bash tells us how and why the White House changed its mind about Condoleezza Rice testifying in public about September 11. I'll be talking about new terrorism warnings and new ways of identifying suspects at the border.

All coming up, all "ON THE STORY." Back to you.

SAN MIGUEL: All right, Kelli, thanks so much.

We want to check in one more time with Jacqui Jeras, see what the forecast is for the weekend. Jacqui?

JERAS: Hey, guys.

Well, two parts of the country, unfortunately, are looking at much of a washout of a weekend. Everybody else is sitting kind of pretty. One area that we're watching is the Rockies, it's getting down into parts of the Southwest. And you can see some pretty good rain right now along I-25 into southern and central parts of Colorado into Colorado Springs. It's even starting to mix over a little bit into some rain and snow.

Into Denver, well, it looks like it's just to your south, but as we take a look at a live picture in Denver, Colorado, you've got a little bit of drizzle going on there this morning, very low cloudiness. Right now, don't -- no delays to report at the airport, but that is a possibility, we think, with these weather-type conditions, so make sure you do call ahead if you have travel plans for today.

High temperature in Denver only around 50 degrees, but don't worry, by the middle of the week, you'll be seeing temperatures back in the middle 60s.

There's that whole area of low pressure spinning around. It's keeping temperatures very cooler into the Southwest, into the Northeast. This is your other area of low pressure here. This is not going to be bringing the heavy rains that we had been seeing, but it will continue to bring in some occasional scattered light rain showers.

Fifty-four in D.C., 52 in Chicago, only 66 in Phoenix, 70 in San Francisco, and your Sunday highs look more of the same, with cooler temperatures across much of the West, and temperatures warming up just a little bit across parts of the East.

Catherine, Renay, back to you.

CALLAWAY: That's some thick stuff in Denver. I don't know if I'd have been flying into that.

SAN MIGUEL: Yes, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) there.

TURNER: Yes, very low clouds. Low ceilings.

CALLAWAY: All right, thanks, Jacqui.

SAN MIGUEL: All right, the headlines now.

A fresh admission that U.S. intelligence about Iraq was off target. Secretary of State Colin Powell says evidence of weapons of mass destruction that he presented at the U.N. in February 2003 was based on faulty data.

Supporters of an influential Shi'ite cleric in Baghdad are protesting the detention of the cleric's deputy by coalition forces. The arrest came one day after the deputy offered active support to Hamas and Hezbollah.

CALLAWAY: And stay with CNN a little while longer. Coming up next, it's "ON THE STORY," followed by "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" at 11:00 a.m. Eastern time. And we'll bring you face to face with The Donald, Donald Trump, that is, as well as actor Kevin Spacey. And at noon, more of "CNN LIVE SATURDAY."

That's it for us.

SAN MIGUEL: That's right. "ON THE STORY" is next, though. Thanks for joining us, for CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 3, 2004 - 09:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CATHERINE CALLAWAY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to this third hour of CNN SATURDAY MORNING. I'm Catherine Callaway.
RENAY SAN MIGUEL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Renay San Miguel. Thanks for making us a part of your day. A very busy third hour coming up. Here's what we've got going for you in the next hour.

More protests and more violence in Iraq. The people continue to voice their opposition to U.S. involvement in their homeland. We will head to Baghdad for the latest in a live report.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASSISTANT CHIEF NOBLE WRAY, MADISON, WISCONSIN, POLICE: So we do not believe that there is a suspect at large, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLAWAY: An abduction that wasn't. Police now say this college student lied about being held captive. But questions remain in this bizarre case.

SAN MIGUEL: And is a diet worth dying for? A list of some diet supplements that could cost you your life. We'll take a closer look a bit later in the show.

First, here's what's happening at this hour.

CALLAWAY: High-speed trains are back in service today in Spain. The lines were shut down yesterday when a bomb was found along the tracks. Authorities say it's the same kind of explosive used in last month's bombings aboard Madrid's commuter trains. A group tied to al Qaeda is suspected of carrying out those attacks, which killed 190 people. But Spanish officials say it's too early to say who might have planted the bomb found yesterday.

And in Taiwan, the political opposition's making good on its promise to hold massive public rallies to protest the recent presidential elections there. The loser vows to keep it up until there is a recount of ballots cast for the incumbent, who narrowly won reelection two weeks ago. Lawyers for the president argue that a recount should cover all of the ballots.

Fire season has come early in Colorado, forcing evacuation of several communities northwest of Denver. The blaze, sparked Tuesday, has now grown to 8,000 acres, 30 percent contained now.

And in Miami, ash is falling like snow due to a fast-moving brush fire on the edge of the Everglades there. Efforts to contain the flames are being hampered by the dry, windy conditions.

SAN MIGUEL: Our top story this hour, Iraqi assailants target those they think are collaborating with the U.S. The latest victim, an Iraqi police chief. This new violence comes just days after deadly attacks in Fallujah.

CNN's Walter Rodgers is live in Baghdad with all the latest. He joins us now. Walter?

WALTER RODGERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Renay.

There has indeed been a smorgasbord of violence here in Iraq this Saturday. The district police chief of Baghdad, one of the district police chiefs, was gunned down only 200 meters from his home. His driver was also killed. The assailants are unknown.

Additionally, another Iraqi family mourns today. A rocket fired by the insurgents fell on their home in the al-Dhoura (ph) neighborhood of Baghdad. One person killed, three others injured.

And outside the Baghdad police academy, a riot, 500 to 600 people rioted outside. It took gunfire from American soldiers to break that up.

But perhaps more worrisome for the Americans than any of this violence was a peaceful march through the southern Shi'ite suburbs of Baghdad this weekend. The crowds were huge, and for the Americans, they were most unfriendly. Shi'ites are 60 percent of the Iraqi population, and these bore a striking resemblance to their Iranian Shi'ite counterparts a generation earlier.

The Iraqi Shi'ites chanted anti-American slogans. They said they welcomed martyrdom and death to rid Iraq of the, quote, "American infidels." It was political muscle flexing the Americans can ill afford.

Now, in Fallujah, west of Baghdad, again, more trouble over the past two days. There have been sermons in mosques there condemning the mutilation of the bodies of those four American civilian contractors on Wednesday, but there was also defiance.

There was no condemnation of the murders at all. Indeed, there were defiant warnings from both Iraqis on the streets in Fallujah and Iraqi imams in the mosques during Friday prayers, warning the Americans not to come back into that town with any strength, or it would, quote, "be the graveyard of the Americans."

Renay?

SAN MIGUEL: Walter Rodgers, live in Baghdad, thank you, Walter.

CALLAWAY: Well, U.S. Marines are taking over the mission in Fallujah, the Iraqi town, known as the hotbed of anti-U.S. resistance. In a move that was already planned, the Marines are taking control from the Army. Wednesday's brutal killing of four U.S. civilian contractors in the city reminded many of a scene similar to the one in Somalia that occurred more than a decade ago.

But unlike Somalia, the U.S. has vowed to punish the people who carried out this attack.

And joining us to talk about Fallujah and the military mission at hand there is the -- our CNN analyst, Ken Pollack, is joining us from Washington.

Ken, thanks for getting up early with us this morning.

KENNETH POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: Thanks, Catherine. Good to be here.

CALLAWAY: Good to have you here.

And tell us more about Fallujah. We know this is obviously a stronghold for Saddam Hussein. He built such a strong network there. How did he do that?

POLLACK: Well, Fallujah is an Iraqi tribal town. It's made up of a number of different Sunni Arab tribes, mainly Ubedh, Dulame (ph), a few other very important tribes. Saddam came from that same environment. He came from another tribe just up the river at Tikrit and very closely related to these other tribes.

During his 30-year reign, he relied on these tribes to fill out the ranks of his special Republican Guard, his special security organization, all of the other intelligence and security organizations that kept him in power.

And in return for their loyalty, he gave them tremendous benefits in terms of money, power, prestige, and really bought their loyalty.

CALLAWAY: And in a town like Fallujah, which is indeed like no other town in Iraq, what kind of retaliation, if any, are we going to see from U.S. forces?

POLLACK: Well, honestly, Catherine, I think it's going to be very difficult for the United States to figure out exactly who did this and bring them to justice. Obviously, the U.S. needs to be doing so, needs to try it, but in truth in a tribal town like Fallujah, where there are enormous bonds of loyalty, where keeping quiet and not informing authorities about someone who did something like this is the prevailing attitude, it's going to be extremely difficult.

CALLAWAY: And there's some discussion now about this perhaps being well planned. The streets were empty when this occurred. There were Iraqi television crews there.

POLLACK: Yes, you know, the fundamental problem we have, Catherine, is that this part of Iraq, Fallujah's part of what we keep calling the Sunni triangle, this part of Iraq is very hostile to the United States' presence. And as a result, it is a very conducive environment for the insurgents to operate in.

The insurgents are only a small part of the population, but since the rest of the population either doesn't dislike them or in some cases actually supports them, it's very easy for them to do what they want to do there.

CALLAWAY: We heard the military officials saying that they're using this video that clearly shows these crimes that were committed. They have photographs from this video. Armed even with that, with photographs of people who participated in this, are they going to have any luck finding these people in Fallujah?

POLLACK: Again, I think that they ought to try, obviously, but I think it's going to be very difficult. And it's why actually I think that we ought to be focusing our energies on a much bigger set of problems that get to the Fallujah issue, which is the fact that we have, unfortunately, alienated this big slice of Iraq's territory, this (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

CALLAWAY: But are you really going...

POLLACK: ... chunk of the population.

CALLAWAY: ... to be able to ease the tension there? I mean, what can the military do to ease that tension there?

POLLACK: The military can't. And that's the whole point, is, the Marines will go in, and honestly, with all due respect to my Army colleagues, the Marines probably will do a much better job. They understand this mission well.

But the fact of the matter is, this is not the kind of a problem that lends itself to a military solution. This really requires a political and economic solution.

CALLAWAY: All right, thank you very much, Ken, for getting up with us this morning, and for your insight.

Well, the Fallujah attack was reflected in some editorial cartoons this week. Take a look at this one from "The Denver Post." It says, "A sad count (ph) of hearts and minds, one (ph) versus lives and limbs lost."

SAN MIGUEL: Federal, state, and local law enforcement are warning terrorists might strike trains and buses in major U.S. cities this summer.

CNN's Elaine Quijano is live in Washington with the latest on this. Elaine?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Renay.

Well, federal law enforcement sources, first of all, are trying to emphasize that this information they've received is uncorroborated. They do acknowledge, however, that there is a, quote, "level of concern." Now, because of that, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security have sent out a message to law enforcement agencies across the country, and that message talks about an alleged plot against commercial transportation systems in major U.S. cities this summer.

Now, specifically, they would be possibly targeting buses and railways. According to this message, the plot calls for the use of improvised explosive devices, perhaps made of ammonium nitrate, or fertilizer, and diesel fuel. Now, the message goes on that the explosives may be concealed in luggage and carry-on bags, and those might include duffel bags and backpacks.

Now, as for when and where such an attack might happen, the only time frame given is this summer, and there are no specific cities mentioned. Now, the message was sent to federal, state, and local police agencies, and this was not meant to be a public announcement. Word of the message comes in the wake of recent events, however, in Madrid, the terrorist train bombings there. But officials say there is no connection to that and this particular warning.

Nevertheless, authorities here in the U.S. are taking precautions. Here in Washington, for instance, officials with the city's Metro system say that they are stepping up their patrols, they are enhancing their other security measures. But, again, officials, federal law enforcement sources, rather, emphasizing that this information that is being distributed to the law enforcement agencies nationwide is uncorroborated, Renay.

SAN MIGUEL: Elaine Quijano, joining us live from Washington, thanks so much.

Looking now at more of the week's developments in the war on terror, the requirement that foreign visitors be photographed and fingerprinted when entering the U.S. is now being extended to America's staunchest allies. The new rule, to take effect by September 30, will apply to citizens of 27 countries who have been allowed to travel here without visas.

High-speed train service between Madrid and Seville has resumed one day after a bomb was found under railroad tracks in Spain. Officials say it's the same type of explosive found -- used in last month's Madrid bombings.

A judge in Ottawa has set a bail hearing for Wednesday for a Canadian man being held in a counterterrorism probe. That investigation has led to the arrest of 11 men in three countries.

CALLAWAY: The realities of the decision to go to war in Iraq are still being drawn out, this time in comments from Secretary of State Colin Powell. Powell now says that some of his prewar arguments for war were based on what he calls flawed sources in the drumbeat that led to the invasion. Powell outlined his argument before the United Nations, saying that Iraq had mobile production facilities for biological weapons.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, February 5, 2003) COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have diagrammed what our sources reported about these mobile facilities. Here, you see both truck- and railcar-mounted mobile factories. The description our sources gave us of the technical features required by such facilities are highly detailed and extremely accurate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLAWAY: Powell says that it now appears that that intelligence was not solid.

And Hans Blix says that the U.S., Britain, and other nations apparently had closed minds when it came to Iraq and banned weapons. The former U.N. chief weapons inspector tells the AP Radio that he told national security adviser Condoleezza Rice that he was not impressed with what the inspectors were finding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HANS BLIX, FORMER CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR (on phone): I said to her that we were not impressed by the -- what we have got. And she said to me then that, Well, it's not the U.S. intelligence that is indicted, it's the Iraq that is indicted. So I think she genuinely believed it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLAWAY: Blix added that Rice believed that was more an indictment of Iraq rather than of U.S. intelligence.

Meanwhile, the government's reporting a massive jobs rebound. President Bush is hailing the March figure, which comes after months of job growth lagging way behind White House promises.

Campaigning in West Virginia, the president said the economy is strong and getting stronger.

The Labor Department says 308,000 jobs were created in March, while unemployment eased upward, reflecting more people again looking for work, but that's still nearly 2 million jobs fewer than when Bush took office.

Presidential rival Senator John Kerry has this response, "For too many families living through the worst job recovery since the Great Depression has been and continues to be far too painful, with nearly 2.6 million private sector jobs lost during the Bush presidency, America's families need and deserve a new economic strategy," ending quote.

Well, she said that she was abducted at knifepoint, and now police say that her story is bogus. We're going to take a closer look at the bizarre case of Audrey Seiler and what may have prompted her to lead police down a dead-end trail.

SAN MIGUEL: And a bit later, growing up is hard enough without having to deal with the added pressures of being bullied. We'll hear from students who have faced that problem and find out how they deal with it.

CALLAWAY: Plus, a pesky upper-level disturbance is bringing rain showers to parts of the Northeast and mid-Atlantic. Will it be a washout for the National Cherry Blossom Festival in Washington, D.C.? We'll let you know what you can expect with the nation's weather, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CALLAWAY: The country had never seen anything like it. One hundred and forty-eight tornadoes traveling together like a swarm of angry bees, ripping through 13 states in a 24-hour period. The largest twister attack ever recorded, 330 people dead, another 5,000 injured.

Well, join us tomorrow morning when a survivor travels back 30 years to relive that tragic day. He tells us how the unimaginable devastation changed his life forever. That's coming up live at 9:00 a.m. on "CNN SUNDAY MORNING."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASSISTANT CHIEF NOBLE WRAY, MADISON, WISCONSIN, POLICE: Due to continuing inconsistencies with this investigation and the lack of any evidence to support her allegations of being abducted, we do not believe that there is a suspect at large related to the second reported abduction. So we do not believe that there is a suspect at large, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAN MIGUEL: A stunning statement about an apparent tall tale. For days, Wisconsin police looked for the person who abducted Audrey Seiler. Now police answering the question of who done it are saying, nobody. The claim of abduction was part of a hoax, police say, that Seiler made up. Apparently the 20-year-old college student had gaping holes in her story.

So what would cause Seiler and others like her to fake a disappearance?

For some possible answers, we are joined now by Dr. Joseph Haraszti, a psychiatrist specializing in adolescent and child psychiatry. He joins us live from Los Angeles.

Dr. Haraszti, thank you for being with us today.

DR. JOSEPH HARASZTI, CHILD AND ADOLESCENT PSYCHIATRIST: Sure. It's my pleasure. Thank you.

SAN MIGUEL: So is it something as simple as just a cry for attention, or is there something more complex involved here?

HARASZTI: Well, I think the simplest thing to say is that, you know, this is an attention-seeking young woman who wants her 15 minutes or seconds of fame. However, I think that would be too callous a way to look at it. I think this was most likely a very serious cry for help in someone who is described as an honors student, who in many ways had the perfect life. One of her friends described her as an amazing girl. She was obviously well liked.

However, someone who has such a perfect life, someone who seemingly has everything, has no way out. In essence, she's locked into her own prison of the persona that she had created.

SAN MIGUEL: And (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

HARASZTI: So -- Yes.

SAN MIGUEL: I wanted to get to the kind of detail that she went into to concoct this story, apparently concoct this story, buying the duct tape and the rope, using a computer to check, you know, for wooded areas and the five-day forecast. Is that common in situations like this, when you say they're creating this persona?

HARASZTI: No, obviously it's not common. This is clearly a very bright person, someone who had thought about this carefully. But I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that this must have been driven by a tremendous amount of inner sense of emptiness, loneliness, a tremendous sense of emotional pain. My guess is that she probably had a number of losses in her life, possibly the breakup with a boyfriend.

However, she was used to being perfect. She was a 4.0 student. And maybe it was very difficult for her to reach out and ask for help directly.

SAN MIGUEL: What kind of warning signs should the parents have been looking for here, or what can parents look for if they think they're facing a similar situation?

HARASZTI: Well, I think the most important thing is to maintain lines of communication with your child, your teenager. Now, this is a young woman who has gone away to college from nearby Minnesota, who obviously was doing very well, but probably that there were -- there were problems at school, and she was just afraid to come out and tell it to her parents or to people close to her. She wanted to maintain this perfect image.

SAN MIGUEL: And final question here, and I don't mean to put you on the spot, but let's say, just for the sake of argument, you're her doctor now, she's your patient, and you're counseling both her and the parents. What do you do at this point?

HARASZTI: Well, first of all, I would like to determine whether or not she is psychotic, whether or not this is just a personality disorder, whether or not she suffers from severe depression, which should be treated aggressively with medication and so on. So that would be the first (UNINTELLIGIBLE), to do a very careful assessment.

Having done that, then I would like to find out what was going on in her life that would trigger her to do something like this. And obviously there has been precedent recently. Most of these situations turn out with a very unhappy, tragic, grisly ending, such as Carlee's (ph) disappearance, many others. However, the ones that turn up, like Elizabeth Smart, Jessica Lynch, they come back heroines, they are -- they receive a tremendous outpouring of affection, sympathy, and nurturance.

And I think that's what she was looking for. Behavior is shaped by its consequences. So we need to look at what was missing in her life and why was she so desperate to put herself into this victim passive role to receive the nurturance and love that she so desperately needs.

SAN MIGUEL: Dr. Joseph Haraszti is a child and adolescent psychiatrist. Thank you for joining us this morning. We do appreciate your insight.

HARASZTI: Thank you.

SAN MIGUEL: Catherine, back over to you.

CALLAWAY: Well, Condoleezza Rice will finally meet with the 9/11 commission next week. But what could they ask her that hasn't already been asked? And did the president cave to pressure of having her testify? All questions waiting for answers in The Novak Zone.

And our morning e-mail question this morning, should jury members be completely shielded from media scrutiny? We'll get your response, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAN MIGUEL: Jacqui Jeras keeping an eye on the weather on this first weekend in April.

CALLAWAY: Yay, spring is here!

SAN MIGUEL: Yes.

CALLAWAY: Jacqui, are you there?

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm here. Hello.

SAN MIGUEL: Hello.

CALLAWAY: We thought you took a spring break or something.

SAN MIGUEL: That's right.

JERAS: I think a lot of people...

SAN MIGUEL: She's out on the beach.

JERAS: ... are on spring break, aren't they?

SAN MIGUEL: Yes. CALLAWAY: They are.

JERAS: And I think a lot of people in the Southwest. You know, people go to Phoenix, it's one of the places a lot of people go to for spring break. I think they're dreaming they were in Florida today. But don't worry, the weather is going to get better. We've had this pesky upper-level system here across the Southwest, and it's been bringing in showers, it's been bringing in thunderstorms, and very, very cool conditions.

Let's go ahead and show you a picture of Phoenix this morning, show you what it looks like from our sister station there, KPNX-TV. I know the chief meteorologist, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) McLaughlin (ph), good friend of mine. Looking for a high of only 66 in Phoenix this afternoon. Average high is 83 degrees, just to give you a good idea of how cold it actually is in the Phoenix area.

Tomorrow looks like it's going to be another chilly one. Showers and thunderstorms associated with that system caused some heavy rain yesterday in the Scottsdale area, about an inch and three quarters, about an inch and a half in Apache Junction. Phoenix proper had about 68 hundredths of an inch, but you had a little bit more scattered across parts of downtown.

Some of the thunderstorms may be severe as you head farther off to the east and to southeastern parts of New Mexico and into western Texas.

Rest of the country looks good outside of our upper-level system also into the Northeast. This one still a wet maker. We're going to talk about that and the cool-down on the way before the top of the hour.

Back to you guys.

SAN MIGUEL: We will see you then.

JERAS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) spring break.

SAN MIGUEL: All right. Thanks so much, Jacqui.

CALLAWAY: Thanks, Jacqui.

SAN MIGUEL: Our top stories now, first to Baghdad, a march by supporters of top Shi'ite cleric Mofada al-Sadr (ph) follows the arrest of his chief deputy. The detention comes a day after al-Sadr announced his active support for two of Israel's biggest enemies, Hamas and the Lebanese-based Hezbollah.

High-speed rail service in Spain is back on track after officials found a bomb along part of the track. Authorities say the 26-pound explosive contains the same material used in the Madrid bombings last month.

Well, we've been asking you to weigh in on our e-mail question this morning. And that is, should jurors be completely shielded from media scrutiny? This is, of course, prompted by the result of the Tyco trial, which ended in a mistrial.

Here is what some of you had to say.

CALLAWAY: Well, you've had a lot to say about it, I can tell you that...

SAN MIGUEL: Yes, yes.

CALLAWAY: ... any time you talk about the media, you know you're going to get lots of comments.

Here's one from Stephen. "The jury system should be completely taken out. It is as antiquated as trial by combat. It's a holdover from a time when a jury -- a juror was actually a peer. Nowadays, that isn't too likely."

SAN MIGUEL: Hmm. And this from Mark in Indianapolis. "I recently served on a jury, and getting people willing to do so is difficult. Allowing the media to pursue jurors and have access to their personal information will discourage even more people from participating in their civic duty."

CALLAWAY: And Kelly from California says, "No, keeping jurors away from the press is aching to having secret trials, and there go your human rights. Also, it's against the First Amendment, as the Supreme Court ruled in the Michael Jackson case. If you're going to judge someone, be a good American and play fair."

All right, stay with us, everyone. More troubles for Ozzie Osborne and family. This time, daughter Kelly is in need of some help.

And why does Michael Jackson's attorney want to talk to the grand jury? We have the details coming up after the break.

This is CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAN MIGUEL: From the commission to the campaign. We enter The Novak Zone in just a couple of minutes to talk about the world of politics.

CALLAWAY: Welcome back, everyone. We have that story coming up.

But first, we have what's happening at this hour.

A California judge could decide April 30 whether Michael Jackson will stand trial on charges of child molestation. But it could be a moot point if a grand jury decides to issue in indictment in the case. Jackson's attorneys are hoping to present evidence to the grand jury before a decision is rendered.

And Kelly Osborne spent her first night in drug rehab last night. The Osborne parents say that she checked into the treatment center to deal with an addiction to painkillers. The youngest Osborne child was taken to the facility by her brother, Jack. He underwent treatment for drug addiction last year.

Tip-off tonight for the final four. The last remaining teams battle in two games for a chance at the NCAA championship. The first game in San Antonio features Oklahoma State against Georgia Tech. And in second game, Connecticut faces Duke.

SAN MIGUEL: After originally declining to testify, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice has decided to appear in front of the 9/11 commission. But what caused the change of heart? For a look at the politics of the decision, we turn now to CNN's Bob Novak for this week's edition of The Novak Zone.

And Bob, a lot of folks are saying, well, it was the political pressure that the president was under to make sure that Condi Rice would appear before that commission. Is that your take on this?

ROBERT NOVAK, THE NOVAK ZONE: That's exactly correct. The fascinating thing, Renay, is that anybody who knew anything about politics knew that the president eventually would have to agree to have her appear. It was one of those things where you couldn't resist.

The question is, why did they wait so long? Why did it look like he was being forced to do it? Why didn't they just say so in the first place? And that's a problem with this president and other presidents, they get very stubborn on presidential privilege. And they -- instead of giving -- conceding this point early and cutting the political damage, they wait till it looks like they're doing it under pressure.

Political mistake.

SAN MIGUEL: So now that she is going to appear this Thursday, do we really expect her to say anything different than what she's already told the networks when she's had those interviews?

NOVAK: Absolutely not. The only difference is that it's under oath, and she's going to say exactly the same thing. Now, there is going to be some of the members of the commission who might be a little bit partisan, are going to try to trip her up, but she's a competent and experienced person, should have done this a long time ago.

It's going to be one of these enormous media events with this tremendous coverage, and everybody is dissecting every word. But I think there's going to be precious little news made.

SAN MIGUEL: And the -- you've covered many of these commissions before on Capitol Hill, and you talked about, you know, the idea that they start off promising bipartisanship, promising just to get to the truth, and -- but the partisanship does appear sooner or later. Is anything with this particular commission stands out for you in regards to all the others you've covered?

NOVAK: Yes, I think, Renay, that they were -- that the leadership was extraordinary. These former governor of New Jersey, Tom Kean, the Republican chairman, and former congressman from Indiana, Lee Hamilton, the Democratic vice chairman, very outstanding. And I think they were very sincere in wanting this to be breast implant -- nonpartisan, rather than bipartisan.

The problem is, it's such -- it's an election year. We're getting closer to the election. There are members of the commission, I think, of Richard Ben-Veniste, who is a very partisan Democratic lawyer, who wants to put an edge on it. And then there are Dem -- Republicans, a former governor of Illinois, Jim Thompson, who respond.

And it just automatically devolves into a state of partisanship. The reason they have an independent commission instead of a -- having a Senate committee or a House committee do it, or even a bicameral do it, is that this is supposed to get away from politics. But the issue is so politics, so political, they can't do it.

SAN MIGUEL: All right. Now for the big question. And this is a very serious big question. Final four time here. Sorry about those Terps, the Terrapins, the Maryland Terrapins, are not making it. But you got two ACC teams here, Duke and Georgia Tech. You know, if you had to pick one or the other, who would you go with?

NOVAK: Well, I -- of course, I'm a Maryland fan, so I root against all of the other ACC teams. But the team I like, and nobody gives them much credit, is -- it's the little engine that could, is Oklahoma State, with John Lucas III, the wonderful little point guard. His father was an old all-American from Maryland, a friend of mine, John Lucas, Jr.

And so watch those Oklahoma State Cowboys, if they can get by Georgia Tech, they may be all the way. But it is a -- (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- but I can tell you one thing, you can watch "CAPITAL GANG" tonight at 7:00 Eastern, and go back to the final four after you're finished.

SAN MIGUEL: Oh, I was going to say, that's a good way to get that plug in. Or if you got the TiVo, make sure the TiVo's going on "THE CAPITAL GANG" as well.

Robert Novak, thanks so much for your time. We'll see you next time.

NOVAK: Thank you, Renay.

SAN MIGUEL: And be sure to tune in to CNN for our live coverage of Rice's appearance before the 9/11 commission. That comes your way Thursday at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time.

CALLAWAY: So how can you beat a bully without beating a bully? Coming up, you'll meet two students who give some terrific advice for parents and teachers on how to handle this.

Stay with us, everyone. CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CALLAWAY: So how big of a bother are bullies? Well, about eight out of every 100 elementary middle and high school students say that they were bullied at least in 2001, that's according to one study. That number is up 3 percent from the year before. And the study shows that middle school could be the roughest, 14 percent of sixth-graders say that they have been bullied. Only 9 percent of freshman report the problem. And by the 12th grade, the number drops to 2 percent.

But roughly, it's estimated 30 percent of American children are bullies or either victims or bullies themselves, sometimes both. And the U.S. surgeon general and Department of Health and Human Services are determined to do something about it. They've launched a campaign called Take a Stand, Lend a Hand, Stop Bullying Now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Callaway (voice-over): Tricia Smith and Robert Hunter learned about bullying firsthand.

ROBERT HUNTER, AGE 15: I got into a lot of fights, fifth grade, third grade. In the past, I've had experiences where they come and they bother you on a regular basis, and I didn't really know how to deal with that situation. And now I know what is the best thing to do, avoid them, not talk to them, or stay away from them. But before, I didn't know that.

CALLAWAY: Experts say anger and fear force some victims to bring a weapon to school.

HUNTER: They probably don't even tend to use it to show the bully that if you bother me again, I'll do something to you, or they might bring a knife to school. If you bother me again, I'll stab you.

CALLAWAY: Fights and weapons often get the victim in trouble with the school and the police. Patricia Smith, being female in a mostly male school, is a constant challenge.

TRICIA SMITH, AGE 17: It's hard. Sometimes, I mean, being singled out, being different, you know, it is hard. You have to, I don't know, deal with a lot, put up with a lot, hear a lot, avoid a lot, ignore a lot.

CALLAWAY: Tricia finds support from teachers.

SMITH: I sometimes, like, walk down certain hallways or put myself so, like, the teachers are around.

CALLAWAY: Experts suggest most bullying occurs away from adults in front of other students, as the need for power and attention demands an audience that seldom tells.

HUNTER: If you tell the teacher, usually what the teacher will do is go get that person and say, Robert told me that you did this, and then that person will now go tell everybody else that Robert told. And you have more problems now.

CALLAWAY: And what do some parents advise?

TURNER: Well, from my dad, he says that if somebody hits you, you hit them right back, hit them harder, you know, you let them know not to do it again.

SMITH: They don't want to see their child being bullied, they don't want to see their child is the weak one. They want them to stick up for themselves, defend themselves, but that's not the answer.

CALLAWAY: Especially today, with stricter laws and easily available weapons, the consequences can be deadly. Which is why Robert tries to follow his mother's advice.

TURNER: The best thing to do is to try to keep your dignity, don't go and stoop down to their level. That's what they want you to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CALLAWAY: So let's take this subject a bit further. Joining us now here in our studio is public school administrator Dr. Garry McGiboney. He is a senior executive director for the DeKalb County schools in Atlanta.

Thank you very much for being with us.

DR. GARRY MCGIBONEY, SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR: Good morning.

CALLAWAY: Tricia and Robert are so eloquent. I know they're in your school system. And they said it so well about what parents often say, Stand up for yourself, get out there and don't let them run you over. I know I've said that to my kids. The wrong thing to say.

MCGIBONEY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), that's the American way to fight back, stand up, don't put up with anything.

CALLAWAY: Right.

MCGIBONEY: And that's very difficult for children to take that advice, because they know in their heart when we give that advice that that's not the best thing to do. They're not going to stand up to the bully, because if they were going to do that, they would have already done that.

So if we force to them take that track, then they have to look for, as Robert said, the great equalizer, which too often could be a weapon.

What we need to do instead is to listen to them, ask questions. That's a very powerful moment for us to have with our child. Well, why are you -- why do you think you're being bullied? Where did it take place? How often has it taken place? Have you told anyone at school? Are your friends around when it takes place? If they're around, how do they respond to it?

That can be a real learning moment, and that's information that you can acquire that you then later, if necessary, share with school officials.

CALLAWAY: And as Robert and Tricia also said, then when you go to the teacher, sometimes well-meaning teachers will then pull the bully or accused bully over and say, "Robert said you did this." And that's just the worst thing you can do.

MCGIBONEY: Well, it is the worst thing you can do, because you can imagine what that leads to. It leads to more bullying, and probably brings the bully's crowd into more a situation of confrontation instead of actually dealing with the problem. But that's a quick fix. We think that's a quick fix.

Instead, teachers need to have more training from school systems, public school systems, private schools, at the university and college level, training teachers in better methods of how to handle that. When a child goes to a teacher and says, I'm being bullied, that takes a lot of courage to admit that. And it's very important how we respond to that, and there are effective ways to respond to that.

CALLAWAY: And shouldn't it be more the action that that person has allegedly taken, instead of who it is against? I mean, should there not be reports of bullying made to the principal and the teacher almost anonymously?

MCGIBONEY: Absolutely, because it's a school climate issue. It's not just an individual issue, it's a school climate issue. You want to deal with it as a school climate issue, so that a school-wide program can be developed to address where does the bullying take place, and why is it taking place in the school?

CALLAWAY: So as a parent, you go to the principal and you say, Don't want my kid's name used, but we're getting reports at home that so-and-so is taunting this child and bullying this child. OK, so then the principal goes and talks to the student, and, more often than not, Dr. McGiboney, don't they find that all the other students are well aware of this person being a bully?

MCGIBONEY: Oh, yes. It's not uncommon for everyone in the building to know who the bully is.

CALLAWAY: Except the teachers.

MCGIBONEY: Except the teachers. And we have -- adults are not smart enough to know what's going on in the school. We have to depend on students to tell us what is going on in the school. And that's part of the school climate, where you encourage students to tell us what is happening in the school, where it's occurring, maybe even when it's occurring, and perhaps even an idea of why it's occurring, so we then can address it on a larger scale.

CALLAWAY: What should a parent and a teacher look for, for a possible child victim of the, of bullying? What should they look for in a kid?

MCGIBONEY: Well, probably one of the most obvious things is withdrawing, not wanting to go to school, not being able to articulate why the child does not want to go to school, or skipping a class, a particular class, avoiding parts of the building where a class may be, a change in their appearance, even a change in their attitude toward the teacher. They might become either quieter or maybe talk back. Or there is a change in appearance, attitude, behavior.

CALLAWAY: U.S. surgeon general now launching this campaign last month, trying to address bullying in American schools, realizing that it is a crisis now in the school systems. We are way behind other countries in this, aren't we?

MCGIBONEY: We're way behind. We've had a problem of perception in our nation, where it's toughen up, Buttercup, fight back. This is a rite of passage. I went through it when I was a child, it's your turn...

CALLAWAY: OK.

MCGIBONEY: ... it builds character. And that's just not accurate at all.

CALLAWAY: Got to change. Dr. McGiboney, thank you so much for being with us this morning for your insight, and for sharing your students with us. They were remarkable and very eloquent.

MCGIBONEY: Yes, they were.

CALLAWAY: Renay, to you now.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, hold the diet. Coming up, a look at diet supplements that experts say can be harmful if swallowed.

And good morning, Denver. We've got your complete weather forecast coming up about in about eight minutes from now.

CNN SATURDAY MORNING continues in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAN MIGUEL: Well, you've seen the ads, supplements promising you a boost in health or a way to help you lose unwanted pounds. What the ads don't tell you is that some of those substances can be dangerous, even deadly. And there is now a list of these so-called dirty dozen herbal supplements to watch out for. That list is in the latest issue of "Consumer Reports" magazine.

And joining us today live from New York is the publication's chief medical adviser, Dr. Marvin Lipman.

Dr. Lipman, thanks for being with us today.

DR. MARVIN M. LIPMAN, "CONSUMER REPORTS": How do you do, Renay?

SAN MIGUEL: Doing fine. We're going to show our viewers the list of these so-called dirty dozen. But I know that the -- that your magazine has categorized them. Which of these really concerns you more than the others? LIPMAN: Well, the top criminal on our most-wanted list is Aristolochia. Aristolochia is an herb that can be grown in various parts of the world, but made its ingress in China, and it's been used for many, many years, probably centuries. It wasn't until 1993 at a Belgian weight-loss clinic, when the drug was being used for that purpose, that approximately 105 women came down with kidney disease. Eighteen of these developed renal cancer.

SAN MIGUEL: Now...

LIPMAN: And that's where an attention was focused on this herb.

SAN MIGUEL: And one of them is also Andro, which (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the FDA has already taken some steps on that. It did that last month. I have to ask you, thought, in, you say on your Web site that the problem here is the 1994, part of the problem is the 1994 Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act. It's known as DSHEA. You say that doesn't really give the FDA the tools that it needs to regulate this, the supplement industry.

LIPMAN: Not only doesn't it give the FDA the tools to regulate the industry, but it effectively puts handcuffs on the Food and Drug Administration, because the law states that dietary supplements, when they come on the market, really do not have to submit any safety clauses, as do prescription drugs.

In addition, there is no mechanism whereby manufacturers of these substances have to report adverse effects to the Food and Drug Administration. In other words, it's a voluntary action on the part of the manufacturers, and you and I know that voluntary means not at all.

SAN MIGUEL: Well, let me tell you what the Council on Responsible Nutrition, who I'm sure you're familiar with, that's the, it's the dietary supplement industry's trade association, what they say about DSHEA. And we have this on the -- for our screen.

Under a headline that says, "DSHEA, It Makes Sense, Let's Make It Work," "The Council on Responsible Nutrition and its member companies support stronger enforcement of DSHEA. More than 150 million Americans take supplements, and they deserve the right to choose from a wide variety of high-quality, safe, and effective products."

What do you think about that?

LIPMAN: I couldn't agree with that more. But there is no regulation with regard to safety, let alone efficacy. We have no proof that these things work at all. And mandatory reporting has to be part of that process.

SAN MIGUEL: All right, we've got -- the more -- there is more information on the so-called dirty dozen. We're showing the ones that are called "likely hazardous" on the screen, including yohimbe, which is being called, many call a poor man's Viagra. We're going to have to move on from here, though. Dr. Marvin Lipman, we appreciate your time, the adviser for "Consumer Reports." And we should say also that there is more information on this at consumerreports.org.

Thank you for your time today. We do appreciate it.

LIPMAN: Thank you, Renay.

SAN MIGUEL: Now, suspicious supplements is a big issue for the Food and Drug Administration. The agency says it doesn't need a smoking gun to prove harmful effects.

In a newly released report, the FDA says it doesn't need direct evidence of human harm before taking steps to stem the sale of a dietary supplement. Current law says the agency must show significant or unreasonable risk from a supplement, something the FDA says it can do by simply looking at animal and test-tube studies, or by studying similar products.

CALLAWAY: You know, I hate to say, there was a list of 12. I think I may have tried one of those.

SAN MIGUEL: You may have tried one or two.

CALLAWAY: Yes, I know.

SAN MIGUEL: I think a lot of folks. These are very popular.

CALLAWAY: That's right.

All right, "ON THE STORY" coming up. Kelli Arena, is that who's standing by?

KELLI ARENA, "ON THE STORY": That sure is. Good morning.

CALLAWAY: It's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- Good morning. What is coming up?

ARENA: Well, we're "ON THE STORY" from Washington to New York to London. We'll talk to Barbara Starr about Pentagon strategy after the bloodiest day yet for Americans in the occupation in Iraq. Dana Bash tells us how and why the White House changed its mind about Condoleezza Rice testifying in public about September 11. I'll be talking about new terrorism warnings and new ways of identifying suspects at the border.

All coming up, all "ON THE STORY." Back to you.

SAN MIGUEL: All right, Kelli, thanks so much.

We want to check in one more time with Jacqui Jeras, see what the forecast is for the weekend. Jacqui?

JERAS: Hey, guys.

Well, two parts of the country, unfortunately, are looking at much of a washout of a weekend. Everybody else is sitting kind of pretty. One area that we're watching is the Rockies, it's getting down into parts of the Southwest. And you can see some pretty good rain right now along I-25 into southern and central parts of Colorado into Colorado Springs. It's even starting to mix over a little bit into some rain and snow.

Into Denver, well, it looks like it's just to your south, but as we take a look at a live picture in Denver, Colorado, you've got a little bit of drizzle going on there this morning, very low cloudiness. Right now, don't -- no delays to report at the airport, but that is a possibility, we think, with these weather-type conditions, so make sure you do call ahead if you have travel plans for today.

High temperature in Denver only around 50 degrees, but don't worry, by the middle of the week, you'll be seeing temperatures back in the middle 60s.

There's that whole area of low pressure spinning around. It's keeping temperatures very cooler into the Southwest, into the Northeast. This is your other area of low pressure here. This is not going to be bringing the heavy rains that we had been seeing, but it will continue to bring in some occasional scattered light rain showers.

Fifty-four in D.C., 52 in Chicago, only 66 in Phoenix, 70 in San Francisco, and your Sunday highs look more of the same, with cooler temperatures across much of the West, and temperatures warming up just a little bit across parts of the East.

Catherine, Renay, back to you.

CALLAWAY: That's some thick stuff in Denver. I don't know if I'd have been flying into that.

SAN MIGUEL: Yes, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) there.

TURNER: Yes, very low clouds. Low ceilings.

CALLAWAY: All right, thanks, Jacqui.

SAN MIGUEL: All right, the headlines now.

A fresh admission that U.S. intelligence about Iraq was off target. Secretary of State Colin Powell says evidence of weapons of mass destruction that he presented at the U.N. in February 2003 was based on faulty data.

Supporters of an influential Shi'ite cleric in Baghdad are protesting the detention of the cleric's deputy by coalition forces. The arrest came one day after the deputy offered active support to Hamas and Hezbollah.

CALLAWAY: And stay with CNN a little while longer. Coming up next, it's "ON THE STORY," followed by "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" at 11:00 a.m. Eastern time. And we'll bring you face to face with The Donald, Donald Trump, that is, as well as actor Kevin Spacey. And at noon, more of "CNN LIVE SATURDAY."

That's it for us.

SAN MIGUEL: That's right. "ON THE STORY" is next, though. Thanks for joining us, for CNN SATURDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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