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CNN Live At Daybreak
Violence in Iraq; America's Voice
Aired April 06, 2004 - 06:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The situation in Iraq, the position of the president. Let's check out the latest poll numbers now. Let's head live to Princeton, New Jersey, and Gallup Poll editor-in-chief Frank Newport.
Good morning, Frank. What numbers do you have for us this morning?
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Well, good morning, Carol.
Indeed, our latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll through the 28th of March, it showed Bush holding up pretty well. But a Pew Research Poll -- actually they stopped short, just 700 interviews, and put it out quickly yesterday -- showed that Bush had actually been coming down in his ratings. And this was polling that was conducted by Pew as of the 4th of April, over the weekend.
Look at the numbers here. Approval for the job handling Iraq situation, only 40 percent now vote for the administration. The economy: 39 percent. Energy: 29 percent. They had his overall approval rating down a little below 45 percent. We'll see if those kinds of numbers persist in our polling that's in the field now and what have you.
But it looks like, at least at the moment, a lot of what we're seeing across a number of venues, Carol, may be hurting Bush's standing in the eyes of the public.
COSTELLO: How much attention are people paying to stories in the news right now, Frank?
NEWPORT: Well, we would think that Iraq, of course, would be the dominant story, and it is important. But that same Pew Poll, which for many years has tracked how much attention people are paying to news stories, shows that interestingly people are paying most attention to the price of gasoline at the pump. Look at that: 58 percent say they're following that story.
Of course, you can't miss it. When you fill up your car, you look straight at that price of gas. You can see how much attention -- these are the percent -- very closely Americans are following Iraq and the 9/11 hearings and the Richard Clarke criticism.
By the way, our own Gallup polling has shown that there's more attention to the election this year than at exactly this point last year back in 2000, which is also interesting. But maybe we'll have higher turnout this year. Look at that: 64 percent are following the election quite a bit right now. In 2000, four years ago, it was just 43 percent.
COSTELLO: Fascinating.
NEWPORT: So, this is a high-interest election, Carol.
COSTELLO: Fascinating numbers to show us this morning. And we have to talk about Condoleezza Rice for just a bit, because she is to testify before the 9/11 Commission on Thursday. What do people think about her?
NEWPORT: Well, 75 percent -- which is higher than I would have thought -- of Americans in our CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll have an opinion of Dr. Rice, and it is more favorable than unfavorable by a 2 to 1 ratio. These are our late numbers here: 50 favorable, 25 unfavorable. Notice on the left-hand side when we asked about her last fall, she was only 16 percent unfavorable -- that red mark.
So, her unfavorables have gone up, perhaps as a result of the Richard Clarke criticism and what have you. She is a well-known commodity, favorably rated. After her testimony on Thursday, we'll wait and see. We'll measure her again and see if her image has gone up or gone down. The jury is out right now.
COSTELLO: And you'll be back on DAYBREAK to tell us. Frank Newport live from Princeton, New Jersey, this morning. Thank you.
Still to come on DAYBREAK, radio talk show hosts Neal Boortz and Mike Malloy join me to talk about the president and Ted Kennedy. I'm sure it will be an interesting debate. That's straight ahead on DAYBREAK.
Also, the match-up between Georgia Tech and UConn. What went wrong? What went right? And how did the winning side celebrate?
Plus, visions from Pamplona, only it's sheep. Sheep, Chad, instead of bulls.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: That's bad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: There is one very vocal senator out there, who is not holding back his criticism of the Iraq war. He's calling it Bush's Vietnam. Ted Kennedy is front and center with his opinion of the president and his Iraq policy.
Here's what he had to say on "LARRY KING LIVE."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We didn't understand what we were getting ourselves into in Vietnam. We didn't understand what we were doing in Iraq. We had misrepresentations about what we were about to do militarily in Vietnam. I think we are finding that out Iraq as well. That is basically the similarity.
And we have to find new leadership in order to be able to resolve this with a sense of dignity and with a sense of respect, which is going to make sure that we're going to see an independent Iraq, and Americans are brought home with dignity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Strong words. And we want to talk more about Iraq and the war of words.
Joining us this morning, Neal Boortz, a Libertarian conservative syndicated radio talk master, and Mike Malloy, a liberal talk show host here in Atlanta.
Neal, let's start with you. Is Iraq fast turning into another Vietnam?
NEAL BOORTZ, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Oh, no. I mean, the essence of Vietnam was get out and come home. That is not the essence of Iraq.
I would like to say, Carol, I couldn't more thrilled. I wish Ted Kennedy would speak in every state in this nation on behalf of John Kerry. It's rather like Hannibal Lechter writing a cookbook. The people that would read it you wouldn't want to have over for dinner, and most people are repulsed by it. So, this is great...
COSTELLO: Well, let's...
BOORTZ: ... for the Bush campaign.
COSTELLO: Let's expound on that. Mike, isn't it harmful to Senator Kennedy to criticize so loudly, not only for political purposes, but when our soldiers are dying in Iraq?
MIKE MALLOY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No, I don't think so. As a matter of fact, one of the reasons our soldiers are dying in Iraq is because of the misrepresentations and the falsehoods and the lies told by the Bush administration to get us into that conflict.
As far as a similarity or a difference between what we're involved in now and Vietnam, I think there's a very clear difference. In Vietnam, the Kennedy and the Johnson administrations were lied to by the military. The mindset back then with the Cold War was one that required this kind of misrepresentation.
What has happened with George W. Bush is that the advisors around Bush have lied to him, while the military have tried to make it clear to the Bush administration they didn't want any part of this war.
COSTELLO: Well, that's an interesting...
MALLOY: So, that's the essential difference.
COSTELLO: That's an interesting twist. Neal, do you agree? BOORTZ: Well, we've been hearing this Bush lied, his aides lied, his administration lied, we've been hearing this for, what? Eight months? Nine months now? A lie is only -- it is only a lie if you know it to be untrue at the time that you made the statement. If I say it's going to rain tomorrow and it turns out to be sunny, I didn't lie. I just wasn't as good as Chad is at forecasting the weather.
Now, I think in the final outcome if America has the resolve, if we don't turn tail and run, as Kennedy would have us do, that history will write this chapter on Iraq and Afghanistan as one of the most noble things the United States has done -- liberating tens of millions of people from the violence of people like the Taliban and Saddam Hussein.
COSTELLO: Well, Neal, let's talk about that noble thing, because the Iraqis don't seem eager to help diffuse these violent uprisings in Iraq. And shouldn't you say, hey, the heck with you at some point? Why should Americans continue to die when the Iraqis don't seem to want to help and don't seem to want them there?
BOORTZ: Oh, sure, that's very tempting. It's very tempting to say, you know, this is the way you want your country to be? Fine. But let's look at what's happening in Syria. Syria is going to Argentina -- excuse me -- Australia right now and saying, look, can you help us with the Americans? They're putting a lot of pressure on us. We want to clean up our act. Moammar Gadhafi in Libya has already cleaned up his act.
Our presence over there is having results. There are desperate people in Iraq right now -- desperate because they see the coming of a somewhat secular, popularly-elected government that may lead them out of power.
COSTELLO: Mike, do you agree with this?
BOORTZ: And they're fighting this.
COSTELLO: I know you want to say something, so get your opinion in.
MALLOY: Well, I don't know where to state here of what Neal has said. First of all, the people of Iraq, if this is liberation, where newspapers are being closed down, cities are being surrounded with barbed wire, civil liberties have suspended, and their government is determined by an occupying power, if that's liberation, I'd like to know what Neal considers occupation to be.
Secondly, as far as Syria and Libya are concerned, Libya has an interest in selling its oil on the international market. They are no more intimidated by George W. Bush's adventure in Iraq than Assad in Syria is -- Assad the same way.
Now, I agree with Neal that these are despotic regimes in the Middle East, and they should be changed. But what the United States should have done was to back the middle class in these countries, so that the middle class would rise up and throw these people out of office. Revolution always arises from the middle class. It never comes from oppressed people, and it never comes from the intelligential. Surely Neal knows this.
COSTELLO: Well, let's...
BOORTZ: Well, now, I'm going to agree with Mike on something. In 1991...
COSTELLO: Uh-oh!
BOORTZ: In 1991, if the first President Bush had stood by his pledge to support Iraqis in an attempt to dethrone Saddam Hussein, in all likelihood we -- and probably -- we would not have troops in Iraq right now. We would not be going through what we're going.
MALLOY: Well, I tend to agree with that. But looking back, you know, you hear a lot these days, given the testimony in front of the 9/11 Commission, let's not look back. Let's look forward. So, it's a little bit disingenuous of Neal, I think, to go back to 1991 and say what if George Bush the first would have gone all the way to Baghdad and overthrown Saddam Hussein.
COSTELLO: But he did keep his promise, because George Bush, it was never his intent to overthrow the government in Iraq; only to defend Kuwait.
MALLOY: Well, that's right.
COSTELLO: We'll have to wrap it up on that point. Gentlemen, Neal Boortz, Mike Malloy, thank you for joining us, and hopefully both of you will return next week on DAYBREAK.
BOORTZ: You bet.
COSTELLO: And by the way, you can watch Condoleezza Rice's appearance before the 9/11 Commission live on CNN. It's scheduled to begin at 9:00 a.m. Eastern on Thursday.
Still to come on this hour of DAYBREAK, the new champions of college hoops. If you missed the game, the fans, and the excitement, stick around.
And, if you think golf is tough where you live, check out this nine-hole course.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Before we get to our sports chat of the morning, welcome back to DAYBREAK. We want to take you live to New York to check in with Bill Hemmer and Heidi Collins, who is in for Soledad O'Brien.
And you're going to talk to Mr. Bremer. That should be fascinating today.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we are. A lot of questions, too, Carol. As you've been following the violence in Najaf, the violence in Fallujah, in Sadr City (ph) from overnight, some reports are saying up to 60 Iraqis were killed in a gun battle there. There are U.S. casualties as well, we're being told. So, we'll get to that with Paul Bremer, a number of things to talk about with him in a moment.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We are also going to be talking Fallujah. As you know, it's called Operation Vigilant Resolve. Four U.S. Marines died there overnight in the Fallujah area. Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon, and she's going to give us more details about that as well.
HEMMER: Also, three days and counting, Condoleezza Rice on Capitol Hill. The commissioner, Bob Kerry (ph), one of the commissioners, I should mention, the senator -- the former senator will be our guest this morning. The critical questions he has, including what was said at this meeting they had in July of 2001, Carol? And also his point about going back to the attacks of Tanzania in August of 1998. If al Qaeda declares war on the U.S., why wasn't there action taken then or in the years after that? So, we'll get to his thoughts this morning.
Jack's got Iraq on his mind, too, as well. Some strong words yesterday from Senator Kennedy regarding what's happening in that country, too. So, we'll get to that.
COSTELLO: Strong words.
HEMMER: Wow! Yes.
COSTELLO: I think that's an understatement in this case.
HEMMER: Yes. Hey, by the way, I like your new segment.
COSTELLO: Well, which one? We have many.
HEMMER: Chatting with Chad.
COSTELLO: He didn't like that, though.
HEMMER: I know he didn't.
COSTELLO: Chatting with Chad.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: Chad, Chad.
MYERS: It's like the pregnant chad, I didn't like that either.
COSTELLO: Pregnant Chad.
HEMMER: Yes, I know.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: And the pregnant and the hanging chad. COSTELLO: Thanks, guys. We'll catch you in 10 minutes.
We've got to talk a little sports right now. And before we begin with Chris Cotter, 790 the Zone here in Atlanta, we want to talk about the Detroit Tigers, because you dissed them. You dissed them last week.
CHRIS COTTER, 790 THE ZONE: No, oh, on a personal note. So, instead of dealing with my personal misery with Georgia Tech last night...
COSTELLO: Oh, forget about that for now.
COTTER: ... we're going to have you gloat on the Detroit Tigers, huh?
COSTELLO: Seven-zip, baby!
MYERS: They got the win.
COSTELLO: Hey, look at that. Did you see Pudge hit that homerun and run in?
COTTER: The magic...
COSTELLO: Seven-zip.
COTTER: The magic number is down to 161 for the Detroit Tigers.
COSTELLO: That's so cruel.
COTTER: No, you...
COSTELLO: Remember the last two seasons, 0-9 and 0-11 starts. And last year, they and 119 losses.
COTTER: Well, it's...
COSTELLO: Which is a record. So we're happy.
COTTER: It's important to start strong. You're right, it is. And the big news from that game was, you know, a young favorite, Roy Halliday, for the Toronto Blue Jays...
COSTELLO: That's right. He went down.
COTTER: ... getting beaten.
COSTELLO: Like Jason Johnson (ph).
COTTER: Getting beaten down.
COTTER: Yes, and a big pick with Pudge Rodriguez. You know, he was so important to the Marlins for the World Series last year just as a leader, and now he's with the Tigers and he hits a homerun yesterday on opening day. So good for you. COSTELLO: Got to love it. All right, let's move on. We have to talk about basketball now and...
COTTER: My personal misery.
COSTELLO: Yes, your personal misery. Georgia Tech (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and that had to be hard for you.
COTTER: It was difficult, and this was all -- you know, this was all UConn from the start last night. Georgia Tech hung in there at the beginning, but really UConn was the better team clearly, and they showed it all game long. And Georgia Tech fought back valiantly, I thought, in the game. But UConn showed that by having these seniors, guys like Ben Gordon and Emeka Okafor, who was the MVP -- there he is right there.
MYERS: What do you think he's worth in the draft?
COTTER: I think he's big time, because he's intelligent.
MYERS: Yes.
COTTER: And I think he has experience now. He's not coming in as an 18, 19-year-old, like so many of these kids are coming in either straight out of high school or one year of college. He is mature physically and mentally.
MYERS: Yes.
COTTER: I think he's going to be, you know, a sure-fire lottery pick, and I think he's going to be able to contribute right way at the NBA level.
COSTELLO: You know, isn't that a big problem, though? I mean, many young basketball players are leaving the college ranks and going professional early, so there were no -- well, big names in this year's tournament, I don't think.
COTTER: Well, and Georgia Tech was a perfect case in point there. Georgia Tech does have two seniors that will be leaving, but they aren't going to the NBA. Georgia Tech was a total team -- you know, it was a total team concept. They went 10 deep down the bench. And Paul Hewitt could bring in any number of players, because they went with that team concept. And it was all about the offense and it wasn't about a guy scoring 25 points a night, and they were successful doing that.
COSTELLO: It was exciting basketball, don't you think?
COTTER: It was a very exciting brand of basketball, and UConn, they had the senior leadership and they had Jim Calhoun, who had been there before, as their head coach. So, they get their second national championship. But watch out for Georgia Tech next year. I did mention, they lose the two seniors, but they're very deep, they're talented, and now they're tournament-tested. So, keep an eye on them next year. COSTELLO: You know, I was on the Georgia Tech campus, Chad, yesterday...
MYERS: Yes, you were.
COSTELLO: ... and they were all talking about it.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) so many benefits have gone towards the coach. He got a raise. He got a new contract. He's, like, got some national exposure.
MYERS: Right.
COSTELLO: So, you're right, it's good for Georgia Tech.
MYERS: And now, it's going to be easier to recruit. You're going to be able to get some junior transfers in there, too, if you want some, if they need some, because everybody is going to want to go to Georgia Tech and they're not going to have to leave and go someplace in North Carolina to have a good basketball team.
COTTER: And the other thing about that is Paul Hewitt isn't going to have to go out and get the McDonald's all American, because he can go out and get two or three players that he's shown in the past and just have them fit in his system and play defense.
So, I think Tech will be back. UConn will be back as well. They've shown, along with Kansas and Duke, that they're going to be there all the time. But I think Georgia Tech has an opportunity right now to make that leap and be one of those teams that can (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
MYERS: All right, off the bandwagon. Off the box. You're done.
COSTELLO: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we've got to get...
COTTER: I've lived it for years.
COSTELLO: We've got to get to the mug question, Chris.
MYERS: Log on, get going, type, type, type.
In the most recent Pew Poll, what is the biggest concern of Americans? That was about 20 minutes ago.
In Barbara Starr's report, about how many militia members does the U.S. believe that Muqtada Al-Sadr has at his disposal?
COSTELLO: Has at his -- you know what? We didn't have Barbara Starr, because we had to drop her for time. But the report was on.
MYERS: Right, yes.
COSTELLO: So, how many militiamen does Sheikh Al-Sadr have at his disposal to protect him?
MYERS: I will take two different answers, because one came from the international desk and one came from another report. So, two answers will work.
COSTELLO: OK, and if you get the answer right, Daybreak@CNN.com, Daybreak@cnn.com, you'll win a beautiful DAYBREAK mug.
Chad will join me for "The Lightning Round" coming up, but first the latest headlines for you.
COSTELLO: Welcome back to DAYBREAK.
We're going to drop "The Lightning Round" this morning, because we've got in brand new pictures from Fallujah, from Iraq. David Clinch is here to explain what these pictures are.
These must be the Marines getting ready to go into Fallujah?
DAVID CLINCH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Right. This is material that the pool crews that are being sent with the Marines have been sending us this morning. This is a combination of material from yesterday of the Marines moving into position around the city of Fallujah. And, again, remember, this the Marines moving in on an operation to find and punish those responsible for the killing and brutal abuse of the bodies of Americans last week.
COSTELLO: Do we know anymore specifically about what they're doing? Are there troops going door to door looking for people?
CLINCH: We have not been able to confirm that today. We do know that yesterday during the day they were going through the streets using loudspeakers, warning people that anybody without a uniform and with a gun would be considered a target.
What we're just hearing again from the pool reporters is that there is what's described as intense fighting going on right now in Fallujah, not clear exactly what the targets are, but obviously the Marines are finding some resistance as they move into Fallujah.
COSTELLO: And, as far as we know, four U.S. soldiers killed overnight and one the night before.
CLINCH: Correct. Actually the totals now are five U.S. Marines were killed in and around Fallujah yesterday. We have no update as of today, and we've heard reports now of three U.S. soldiers killed in the Baghdad area yesterday.
And on the Baghdad story, you know, we've been doing these two things: insurgency in Fallujah and then the Shiite rebellion, or at least a small rebellion, in Sadr City (ph), Baghdad and elsewhere.
An update on what we were talking about earlier. This cleric, Muqtada Sadr, who has at least inspired this violence in the Shiite area, we've been saying for the last few days that he's been holed up in a mosque near Najaf. We're hearing -- yet to confirm -- but hearing reports that he has left that mosque and moved into the city of Najaf itself and issued a statement in which he says that he is moving to avoid further bloodshed.
COSTELLO: Oh.
CLINCH: Now, it's not clear exactly what he means by that.
COSTELLO: He's moving to avoid further bloodshed. Well, that could mean many things, couldn't it?
CLINCH: Well, obviously the U.S. yesterday in alerting us to the fact that they have an arrest for him said that they would welcome him wandering in anytime to an Iraqi police station, so that he could be arrested.
COSTELLO: I bet he's on his way there now, sure.
CLINCH: We'll see.
COSTELLO: All right.
CLINCH: We expect to hear from him at some point fairly soon.
COSTELLO: Much more for you coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING." This is our time to say good-bye. I'm Carol Costello with Chad Myers. "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now.
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Aired April 6, 2004 - 06:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The situation in Iraq, the position of the president. Let's check out the latest poll numbers now. Let's head live to Princeton, New Jersey, and Gallup Poll editor-in-chief Frank Newport.
Good morning, Frank. What numbers do you have for us this morning?
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Well, good morning, Carol.
Indeed, our latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll through the 28th of March, it showed Bush holding up pretty well. But a Pew Research Poll -- actually they stopped short, just 700 interviews, and put it out quickly yesterday -- showed that Bush had actually been coming down in his ratings. And this was polling that was conducted by Pew as of the 4th of April, over the weekend.
Look at the numbers here. Approval for the job handling Iraq situation, only 40 percent now vote for the administration. The economy: 39 percent. Energy: 29 percent. They had his overall approval rating down a little below 45 percent. We'll see if those kinds of numbers persist in our polling that's in the field now and what have you.
But it looks like, at least at the moment, a lot of what we're seeing across a number of venues, Carol, may be hurting Bush's standing in the eyes of the public.
COSTELLO: How much attention are people paying to stories in the news right now, Frank?
NEWPORT: Well, we would think that Iraq, of course, would be the dominant story, and it is important. But that same Pew Poll, which for many years has tracked how much attention people are paying to news stories, shows that interestingly people are paying most attention to the price of gasoline at the pump. Look at that: 58 percent say they're following that story.
Of course, you can't miss it. When you fill up your car, you look straight at that price of gas. You can see how much attention -- these are the percent -- very closely Americans are following Iraq and the 9/11 hearings and the Richard Clarke criticism.
By the way, our own Gallup polling has shown that there's more attention to the election this year than at exactly this point last year back in 2000, which is also interesting. But maybe we'll have higher turnout this year. Look at that: 64 percent are following the election quite a bit right now. In 2000, four years ago, it was just 43 percent.
COSTELLO: Fascinating.
NEWPORT: So, this is a high-interest election, Carol.
COSTELLO: Fascinating numbers to show us this morning. And we have to talk about Condoleezza Rice for just a bit, because she is to testify before the 9/11 Commission on Thursday. What do people think about her?
NEWPORT: Well, 75 percent -- which is higher than I would have thought -- of Americans in our CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll have an opinion of Dr. Rice, and it is more favorable than unfavorable by a 2 to 1 ratio. These are our late numbers here: 50 favorable, 25 unfavorable. Notice on the left-hand side when we asked about her last fall, she was only 16 percent unfavorable -- that red mark.
So, her unfavorables have gone up, perhaps as a result of the Richard Clarke criticism and what have you. She is a well-known commodity, favorably rated. After her testimony on Thursday, we'll wait and see. We'll measure her again and see if her image has gone up or gone down. The jury is out right now.
COSTELLO: And you'll be back on DAYBREAK to tell us. Frank Newport live from Princeton, New Jersey, this morning. Thank you.
Still to come on DAYBREAK, radio talk show hosts Neal Boortz and Mike Malloy join me to talk about the president and Ted Kennedy. I'm sure it will be an interesting debate. That's straight ahead on DAYBREAK.
Also, the match-up between Georgia Tech and UConn. What went wrong? What went right? And how did the winning side celebrate?
Plus, visions from Pamplona, only it's sheep. Sheep, Chad, instead of bulls.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: That's bad.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: There is one very vocal senator out there, who is not holding back his criticism of the Iraq war. He's calling it Bush's Vietnam. Ted Kennedy is front and center with his opinion of the president and his Iraq policy.
Here's what he had to say on "LARRY KING LIVE."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TED KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We didn't understand what we were getting ourselves into in Vietnam. We didn't understand what we were doing in Iraq. We had misrepresentations about what we were about to do militarily in Vietnam. I think we are finding that out Iraq as well. That is basically the similarity.
And we have to find new leadership in order to be able to resolve this with a sense of dignity and with a sense of respect, which is going to make sure that we're going to see an independent Iraq, and Americans are brought home with dignity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Strong words. And we want to talk more about Iraq and the war of words.
Joining us this morning, Neal Boortz, a Libertarian conservative syndicated radio talk master, and Mike Malloy, a liberal talk show host here in Atlanta.
Neal, let's start with you. Is Iraq fast turning into another Vietnam?
NEAL BOORTZ, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Oh, no. I mean, the essence of Vietnam was get out and come home. That is not the essence of Iraq.
I would like to say, Carol, I couldn't more thrilled. I wish Ted Kennedy would speak in every state in this nation on behalf of John Kerry. It's rather like Hannibal Lechter writing a cookbook. The people that would read it you wouldn't want to have over for dinner, and most people are repulsed by it. So, this is great...
COSTELLO: Well, let's...
BOORTZ: ... for the Bush campaign.
COSTELLO: Let's expound on that. Mike, isn't it harmful to Senator Kennedy to criticize so loudly, not only for political purposes, but when our soldiers are dying in Iraq?
MIKE MALLOY, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: No, I don't think so. As a matter of fact, one of the reasons our soldiers are dying in Iraq is because of the misrepresentations and the falsehoods and the lies told by the Bush administration to get us into that conflict.
As far as a similarity or a difference between what we're involved in now and Vietnam, I think there's a very clear difference. In Vietnam, the Kennedy and the Johnson administrations were lied to by the military. The mindset back then with the Cold War was one that required this kind of misrepresentation.
What has happened with George W. Bush is that the advisors around Bush have lied to him, while the military have tried to make it clear to the Bush administration they didn't want any part of this war.
COSTELLO: Well, that's an interesting...
MALLOY: So, that's the essential difference.
COSTELLO: That's an interesting twist. Neal, do you agree? BOORTZ: Well, we've been hearing this Bush lied, his aides lied, his administration lied, we've been hearing this for, what? Eight months? Nine months now? A lie is only -- it is only a lie if you know it to be untrue at the time that you made the statement. If I say it's going to rain tomorrow and it turns out to be sunny, I didn't lie. I just wasn't as good as Chad is at forecasting the weather.
Now, I think in the final outcome if America has the resolve, if we don't turn tail and run, as Kennedy would have us do, that history will write this chapter on Iraq and Afghanistan as one of the most noble things the United States has done -- liberating tens of millions of people from the violence of people like the Taliban and Saddam Hussein.
COSTELLO: Well, Neal, let's talk about that noble thing, because the Iraqis don't seem eager to help diffuse these violent uprisings in Iraq. And shouldn't you say, hey, the heck with you at some point? Why should Americans continue to die when the Iraqis don't seem to want to help and don't seem to want them there?
BOORTZ: Oh, sure, that's very tempting. It's very tempting to say, you know, this is the way you want your country to be? Fine. But let's look at what's happening in Syria. Syria is going to Argentina -- excuse me -- Australia right now and saying, look, can you help us with the Americans? They're putting a lot of pressure on us. We want to clean up our act. Moammar Gadhafi in Libya has already cleaned up his act.
Our presence over there is having results. There are desperate people in Iraq right now -- desperate because they see the coming of a somewhat secular, popularly-elected government that may lead them out of power.
COSTELLO: Mike, do you agree with this?
BOORTZ: And they're fighting this.
COSTELLO: I know you want to say something, so get your opinion in.
MALLOY: Well, I don't know where to state here of what Neal has said. First of all, the people of Iraq, if this is liberation, where newspapers are being closed down, cities are being surrounded with barbed wire, civil liberties have suspended, and their government is determined by an occupying power, if that's liberation, I'd like to know what Neal considers occupation to be.
Secondly, as far as Syria and Libya are concerned, Libya has an interest in selling its oil on the international market. They are no more intimidated by George W. Bush's adventure in Iraq than Assad in Syria is -- Assad the same way.
Now, I agree with Neal that these are despotic regimes in the Middle East, and they should be changed. But what the United States should have done was to back the middle class in these countries, so that the middle class would rise up and throw these people out of office. Revolution always arises from the middle class. It never comes from oppressed people, and it never comes from the intelligential. Surely Neal knows this.
COSTELLO: Well, let's...
BOORTZ: Well, now, I'm going to agree with Mike on something. In 1991...
COSTELLO: Uh-oh!
BOORTZ: In 1991, if the first President Bush had stood by his pledge to support Iraqis in an attempt to dethrone Saddam Hussein, in all likelihood we -- and probably -- we would not have troops in Iraq right now. We would not be going through what we're going.
MALLOY: Well, I tend to agree with that. But looking back, you know, you hear a lot these days, given the testimony in front of the 9/11 Commission, let's not look back. Let's look forward. So, it's a little bit disingenuous of Neal, I think, to go back to 1991 and say what if George Bush the first would have gone all the way to Baghdad and overthrown Saddam Hussein.
COSTELLO: But he did keep his promise, because George Bush, it was never his intent to overthrow the government in Iraq; only to defend Kuwait.
MALLOY: Well, that's right.
COSTELLO: We'll have to wrap it up on that point. Gentlemen, Neal Boortz, Mike Malloy, thank you for joining us, and hopefully both of you will return next week on DAYBREAK.
BOORTZ: You bet.
COSTELLO: And by the way, you can watch Condoleezza Rice's appearance before the 9/11 Commission live on CNN. It's scheduled to begin at 9:00 a.m. Eastern on Thursday.
Still to come on this hour of DAYBREAK, the new champions of college hoops. If you missed the game, the fans, and the excitement, stick around.
And, if you think golf is tough where you live, check out this nine-hole course.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Before we get to our sports chat of the morning, welcome back to DAYBREAK. We want to take you live to New York to check in with Bill Hemmer and Heidi Collins, who is in for Soledad O'Brien.
And you're going to talk to Mr. Bremer. That should be fascinating today.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, we are. A lot of questions, too, Carol. As you've been following the violence in Najaf, the violence in Fallujah, in Sadr City (ph) from overnight, some reports are saying up to 60 Iraqis were killed in a gun battle there. There are U.S. casualties as well, we're being told. So, we'll get to that with Paul Bremer, a number of things to talk about with him in a moment.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We are also going to be talking Fallujah. As you know, it's called Operation Vigilant Resolve. Four U.S. Marines died there overnight in the Fallujah area. Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon, and she's going to give us more details about that as well.
HEMMER: Also, three days and counting, Condoleezza Rice on Capitol Hill. The commissioner, Bob Kerry (ph), one of the commissioners, I should mention, the senator -- the former senator will be our guest this morning. The critical questions he has, including what was said at this meeting they had in July of 2001, Carol? And also his point about going back to the attacks of Tanzania in August of 1998. If al Qaeda declares war on the U.S., why wasn't there action taken then or in the years after that? So, we'll get to his thoughts this morning.
Jack's got Iraq on his mind, too, as well. Some strong words yesterday from Senator Kennedy regarding what's happening in that country, too. So, we'll get to that.
COSTELLO: Strong words.
HEMMER: Wow! Yes.
COSTELLO: I think that's an understatement in this case.
HEMMER: Yes. Hey, by the way, I like your new segment.
COSTELLO: Well, which one? We have many.
HEMMER: Chatting with Chad.
COSTELLO: He didn't like that, though.
HEMMER: I know he didn't.
COSTELLO: Chatting with Chad.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: Chad, Chad.
MYERS: It's like the pregnant chad, I didn't like that either.
COSTELLO: Pregnant Chad.
HEMMER: Yes, I know.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: And the pregnant and the hanging chad. COSTELLO: Thanks, guys. We'll catch you in 10 minutes.
We've got to talk a little sports right now. And before we begin with Chris Cotter, 790 the Zone here in Atlanta, we want to talk about the Detroit Tigers, because you dissed them. You dissed them last week.
CHRIS COTTER, 790 THE ZONE: No, oh, on a personal note. So, instead of dealing with my personal misery with Georgia Tech last night...
COSTELLO: Oh, forget about that for now.
COTTER: ... we're going to have you gloat on the Detroit Tigers, huh?
COSTELLO: Seven-zip, baby!
MYERS: They got the win.
COSTELLO: Hey, look at that. Did you see Pudge hit that homerun and run in?
COTTER: The magic...
COSTELLO: Seven-zip.
COTTER: The magic number is down to 161 for the Detroit Tigers.
COSTELLO: That's so cruel.
COTTER: No, you...
COSTELLO: Remember the last two seasons, 0-9 and 0-11 starts. And last year, they and 119 losses.
COTTER: Well, it's...
COSTELLO: Which is a record. So we're happy.
COTTER: It's important to start strong. You're right, it is. And the big news from that game was, you know, a young favorite, Roy Halliday, for the Toronto Blue Jays...
COSTELLO: That's right. He went down.
COTTER: ... getting beaten.
COSTELLO: Like Jason Johnson (ph).
COTTER: Getting beaten down.
COTTER: Yes, and a big pick with Pudge Rodriguez. You know, he was so important to the Marlins for the World Series last year just as a leader, and now he's with the Tigers and he hits a homerun yesterday on opening day. So good for you. COSTELLO: Got to love it. All right, let's move on. We have to talk about basketball now and...
COTTER: My personal misery.
COSTELLO: Yes, your personal misery. Georgia Tech (UNINTELLIGIBLE), and that had to be hard for you.
COTTER: It was difficult, and this was all -- you know, this was all UConn from the start last night. Georgia Tech hung in there at the beginning, but really UConn was the better team clearly, and they showed it all game long. And Georgia Tech fought back valiantly, I thought, in the game. But UConn showed that by having these seniors, guys like Ben Gordon and Emeka Okafor, who was the MVP -- there he is right there.
MYERS: What do you think he's worth in the draft?
COTTER: I think he's big time, because he's intelligent.
MYERS: Yes.
COTTER: And I think he has experience now. He's not coming in as an 18, 19-year-old, like so many of these kids are coming in either straight out of high school or one year of college. He is mature physically and mentally.
MYERS: Yes.
COTTER: I think he's going to be, you know, a sure-fire lottery pick, and I think he's going to be able to contribute right way at the NBA level.
COSTELLO: You know, isn't that a big problem, though? I mean, many young basketball players are leaving the college ranks and going professional early, so there were no -- well, big names in this year's tournament, I don't think.
COTTER: Well, and Georgia Tech was a perfect case in point there. Georgia Tech does have two seniors that will be leaving, but they aren't going to the NBA. Georgia Tech was a total team -- you know, it was a total team concept. They went 10 deep down the bench. And Paul Hewitt could bring in any number of players, because they went with that team concept. And it was all about the offense and it wasn't about a guy scoring 25 points a night, and they were successful doing that.
COSTELLO: It was exciting basketball, don't you think?
COTTER: It was a very exciting brand of basketball, and UConn, they had the senior leadership and they had Jim Calhoun, who had been there before, as their head coach. So, they get their second national championship. But watch out for Georgia Tech next year. I did mention, they lose the two seniors, but they're very deep, they're talented, and now they're tournament-tested. So, keep an eye on them next year. COSTELLO: You know, I was on the Georgia Tech campus, Chad, yesterday...
MYERS: Yes, you were.
COSTELLO: ... and they were all talking about it.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) so many benefits have gone towards the coach. He got a raise. He got a new contract. He's, like, got some national exposure.
MYERS: Right.
COSTELLO: So, you're right, it's good for Georgia Tech.
MYERS: And now, it's going to be easier to recruit. You're going to be able to get some junior transfers in there, too, if you want some, if they need some, because everybody is going to want to go to Georgia Tech and they're not going to have to leave and go someplace in North Carolina to have a good basketball team.
COTTER: And the other thing about that is Paul Hewitt isn't going to have to go out and get the McDonald's all American, because he can go out and get two or three players that he's shown in the past and just have them fit in his system and play defense.
So, I think Tech will be back. UConn will be back as well. They've shown, along with Kansas and Duke, that they're going to be there all the time. But I think Georgia Tech has an opportunity right now to make that leap and be one of those teams that can (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
MYERS: All right, off the bandwagon. Off the box. You're done.
COSTELLO: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) we've got to get...
COTTER: I've lived it for years.
COSTELLO: We've got to get to the mug question, Chris.
MYERS: Log on, get going, type, type, type.
In the most recent Pew Poll, what is the biggest concern of Americans? That was about 20 minutes ago.
In Barbara Starr's report, about how many militia members does the U.S. believe that Muqtada Al-Sadr has at his disposal?
COSTELLO: Has at his -- you know what? We didn't have Barbara Starr, because we had to drop her for time. But the report was on.
MYERS: Right, yes.
COSTELLO: So, how many militiamen does Sheikh Al-Sadr have at his disposal to protect him?
MYERS: I will take two different answers, because one came from the international desk and one came from another report. So, two answers will work.
COSTELLO: OK, and if you get the answer right, Daybreak@CNN.com, Daybreak@cnn.com, you'll win a beautiful DAYBREAK mug.
Chad will join me for "The Lightning Round" coming up, but first the latest headlines for you.
COSTELLO: Welcome back to DAYBREAK.
We're going to drop "The Lightning Round" this morning, because we've got in brand new pictures from Fallujah, from Iraq. David Clinch is here to explain what these pictures are.
These must be the Marines getting ready to go into Fallujah?
DAVID CLINCH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Right. This is material that the pool crews that are being sent with the Marines have been sending us this morning. This is a combination of material from yesterday of the Marines moving into position around the city of Fallujah. And, again, remember, this the Marines moving in on an operation to find and punish those responsible for the killing and brutal abuse of the bodies of Americans last week.
COSTELLO: Do we know anymore specifically about what they're doing? Are there troops going door to door looking for people?
CLINCH: We have not been able to confirm that today. We do know that yesterday during the day they were going through the streets using loudspeakers, warning people that anybody without a uniform and with a gun would be considered a target.
What we're just hearing again from the pool reporters is that there is what's described as intense fighting going on right now in Fallujah, not clear exactly what the targets are, but obviously the Marines are finding some resistance as they move into Fallujah.
COSTELLO: And, as far as we know, four U.S. soldiers killed overnight and one the night before.
CLINCH: Correct. Actually the totals now are five U.S. Marines were killed in and around Fallujah yesterday. We have no update as of today, and we've heard reports now of three U.S. soldiers killed in the Baghdad area yesterday.
And on the Baghdad story, you know, we've been doing these two things: insurgency in Fallujah and then the Shiite rebellion, or at least a small rebellion, in Sadr City (ph), Baghdad and elsewhere.
An update on what we were talking about earlier. This cleric, Muqtada Sadr, who has at least inspired this violence in the Shiite area, we've been saying for the last few days that he's been holed up in a mosque near Najaf. We're hearing -- yet to confirm -- but hearing reports that he has left that mosque and moved into the city of Najaf itself and issued a statement in which he says that he is moving to avoid further bloodshed.
COSTELLO: Oh.
CLINCH: Now, it's not clear exactly what he means by that.
COSTELLO: He's moving to avoid further bloodshed. Well, that could mean many things, couldn't it?
CLINCH: Well, obviously the U.S. yesterday in alerting us to the fact that they have an arrest for him said that they would welcome him wandering in anytime to an Iraqi police station, so that he could be arrested.
COSTELLO: I bet he's on his way there now, sure.
CLINCH: We'll see.
COSTELLO: All right.
CLINCH: We expect to hear from him at some point fairly soon.
COSTELLO: Much more for you coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING." This is our time to say good-bye. I'm Carol Costello with Chad Myers. "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now.
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