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CNN Live At Daybreak

Deadliest Days in Iraq; Easter Security; Remembering Genocide in Rwanda

Aired April 07, 2004 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: In the Shiite enclave of Sadr City, U.S. forces and Shiite militia go head to head.
Good morning to you, welcome to the second half hour of DAYBREAK. It is Wednesday, April 7. From the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you for joining us.

Let me bring you up to date now.

A large scale attack by Iraqi insurgents kill as many as 12 Marines in Ramadi. That is west of Baghdad. It was one of the deadliest days for U.S. troops.

A solemn anniversary in Rwanda, it is the 10th anniversary of the start of the genocide which -- in which 800,000 people were slaughtered in that central African country.

In Japan, a court rules that the prime minister has violated the constitution by visiting a religious shrine honoring the nation's war dead. The Japanese executed for war crimes are among those buried there.

Here is the scene in Mississippi this morning where an Amtrak train has derailed. One person was killed, 35 hurt at least critically -- 3 at least critically, I should say.

To the Forecast Center now and, Chad, good morning.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: These are among the deadliest days of the war in Iraq. As many as 30 U.S. troops have been killed in three days of fighting across several cities. The most viscous street-to-street battles have been taking place in Ramadi. Up to 12 Marines were killed in an attack by former Ba'athist Party members.

In nearby Fallujah, well that's also a war zone. Marines there are fighting pitched battles with Sunni insurgents. Doctors say at least 36 Iraqi civilians have been killed.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says if commanders on the ground ask for more troops, they will be sent. About 135,000 U.S. troops are in Iraq right now. And radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is one of the main enemies of the U.S. right now. He says he is willing to die resisting any attempt to capture him. Al-Sadr has taken refuge in the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf, one of Shi'a Islam's holiest shrines.

The U.S. troops are now faced with battling both Sunnis and Shiites, so let's take you live to Baghdad now and Jim Clancy.

Hello -- Jim.

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol, once again.

Listen, let's put some things into perspective here about what's going on and just how important all of this is. We heard in a press briefing a short while ago where the U.S. had -- coalition spokesman saying that this wasn't a war on two fronts. The reality is in some ways that is the correct statement, there is one front, it is Iraq. It is pushing forward this vision of a future Iraq.

But at the same time, when you look at the situation, it is two fronts, very well and truly. You've got what the Marines are fighting for in Fallujah and Ramadi. That is a Sunni insurgency. We don't know that all of them are Ba'athist. Certainly many of them may be. But some of them may be driven by nationalism. They may be driven by many other motives that are on the ground here.

Perhaps more troubling, Muqtada Sadr. And in the briefing we got it more than once that the U.S. military is going to -- and I'm quoting here -- "attack and destroy the al Mehdi Army." This is the private militia of the young Shi'a Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Al-Sadr has been in the background for months and months building up this army, causing trouble around the fringes, setting up his own courts and his own prisons. He wants to seize power. He is making a bold move right now to do just that, although he does not have substantial support within the Shi'a community, the majority community here in Iraq. But he does have the potential to cause a lot of trouble.

The problem here is he has retreated to Najaf. Now he is not inside the Imam Ali Mosque, as we understand it this morning. He is in his office. It is literally just footsteps away from the Imam Ali Mosque, and he would go there, certainly for sanctuary, should the U.S. come in and try to serve an arrest warrant for a murder one year ago that was in that precise spot. It was a rival cleric. Muqtada al-Sadr and his supporters around him are making a bid by trying to take over police headquarters and things like that.

As of this morning, coalition sources would only say that they have a strong presence outside of Najaf. Now yesterday we heard that a lot of the government buildings, a lot of the police stations inside Najaf were under the control of this al Mehdi Army, this private militia, a very troubling development. The U.S. response is going to have to be carefully planned. Add to all of that hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pilgrims are coming there this weekend.

COSTELLO: Jim Clancy reporting live from Baghdad this morning.

Now many of the troops taking on the Iraqi insurgents are from the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force that's based in Camp Pendleton, California. They took over from the Army's 82nd Airborne Division. They are assigned to the Sunni Triangle and the area extending to the border with Syria. As we have been telling you, the Marines are facing fierce fighting in the city of Ramadi. The U.S. military death toll in Iraq this month is 36, and it looks like resistance against the occupation is spreading.

Our senior international editor David Clinch joins us now.

And, David, before we get to that, I want to go back to Sheikh al-Sadr...

DAVID CLINCH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Yes.

COSTELLO: ... holed up in this mosque in Najaf. And isn't...

CLINCH: Well, as Jim was saying, he's right next door in his office.

COSTELLO: In the office, right.

CLINCH: Yes.

COSTELLO: In the office, but he can just scurry right into the mosque if he's in any danger.

CLINCH: Yes.

COSTELLO: But isn't al-Sistani there as well in Najaf?

CLINCH: Al-Sistani has headquarters in Najaf. And here is the distinction between these two and it's very important to understand this. Sistani has the broad support in the Shiite community and has up until this point. While he has been creating some difficulty in this handover process on the political side done nothing to provoke violence and in fact, called for calm.

Sadr, on the other hand, who is now just down the road from him, has been doing the opposite. So a very interesting dynamic.

COSTELLO: Well is there any danger of them joining forces?

CLINCH: I wouldn't say joining forces, but there certainly is an interest in exactly what the message coming from Sistani will be in the coming days. And Jim pointing out there's a very big Shiite holiday coming up this Saturday. Millions of Shiites from Iraq and also, of course, from Iran next door will be coming into these Shiite cities, Najaf, Karbala, Nasiriya. All of these cities which, up until just recently, have been relatively calm, now the scene of quite considerable violence. And Sadr City and Baghdad, as well, of course.

COSTELLO: Well let me put this to you, al-Sistani wants a part in the new government of Iraq. He wants a big part of the new government in Iraq. So why doesn't he step in and say stop it?

CLINCH: Well I think...

COSTELLO: Why doesn't he talk to al-Sadr?

CLINCH: Well he has issued a message calling for calm, but he has also issued a message saying that the United States should not be attacking the militia and should not be attacking al-Sadr. And what he meant by that was the initial action of shutting down the newspapers and arresting his assistants. He hasn't made a comment on the violence that has happened since then.

So, yes, he wants a part in that. The Shiites are the majority. And this is the fear, of course, of Sistani and the Shiites is that this transition of power will not leave them with the majority of the power after the transition. So he has definitely got a part. And our news gathering on this story, on the Shiite side, and of course on the other side of the story, the Sunni insurgency in Ramadi and in Fallujah is continuing, within reason. It's not exactly safe for us to go into these cities. There is a full crew in Ramadi -- I mean in Fallujah. We expect to get some more material of what we're told is fighting, fierce fighting going on right now.

COSTELLO: David Clinch, many thanks to you.

CLINCH: OK.

COSTELLO: Tens of thousands are expected to pack St. Peter's Square in Rome this weekend. It's the culmination of Holy Week. Security has been tightened in the run-up to Easter services, but are more precautions needed?

Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci joins us live on the phone with more on the security concerns.

Hello.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Carol.

Well Italian officials are telling us that there is no specific threat against the Vatican or any other particular target in this country at this time. But a series of recent police raids and arrests suggest that the Italian government remains concerned about the possibility that this country may be next on the terrorist's list. In recent months, indeed there have been several arrests there and of individuals believed to be offering some kind of a logistical support to al Qaeda. Anytime officials are concerned that some terrorist cells, similar to the one, for example, responsible for the attacks in Spain, may operate in this country as well.

Now of course the Italian towns such as Rome, Florence, Venice are rapidly filling with tourists from all over the world to celebrate the Easter holidays. Italian security officials in the past have identified at least 8,000 possible targets and have recently said that they have increased security in two major squares, one in Florence and one in Pisa, where the famous Leaning Tower is located. Here in Rome, Pope John Paul II plans to celebrate a series of open-air events in masses in St. Peter's Square.

But all that said, I must tell you that there is not really a feeling that the country is under siege. Security at the Vatican this morning was present but there was no more police than usual. And again, so there is no need to make any unnecessary alarmism, but officials here remain vigilant because they know that terrorists could strike any time at any place.

And, you know, but regarding the Vatican itself, I mean last Sunday on Palm Sunday, Pope John Paul II at the end of his mass decided to take a tour of the square. He did it in an open deck car. He does have a car with bulletproof windows. He did not choose it to use that car. So security officials at the Vatican, while remaining vigilant, they are also -- you know they are also confident that all precautions are being taken.

COSTELLO: Yes, I don't think much can stop Pope John Paul.

Alessio Vinci live by phone from Rome this morning.

Let's move on to Spain, a very Catholic nation as well. It's also stepping up security this Easter. This is the first big holiday since that deadly terrorist train bombing.

Al Goodman is live in Madrid for us this morning.

Al, what kind of security measures are being taken there?

AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, first message, this is not a relaxing Easter week holiday. This is a nation very much on edge. Tens of thousands of police officers and other security personnel are on duty, many leads for them. They usually would have had vacation, have been cancelled.

All of this they are stepping up security at train stations, on the Bullet line tracks, at bus stations, at airports and at other strategic installations like nuclear power plants and ports and damns. We were at a major damn, the largest one that provides drinking water, in the capital an hour north of here on Tuesday. We saw soldiers, we saw paramilitary civil guards guarding that place.

All of this coming, Carol, in the aftermath of the Madrid commuter train bombings last month that killed 190 people and wounded 1,800 others. And then last weekend, six suspected Islamic terrorists linked to those attacks blew themselves up in a Madrid suburb as police closed in.

Also over the weekend, a major newspaper received a fax from the group linked to al Qaeda vowing to turn Spain into an inferno if Spanish troops are not removed from Iraq and Afghanistan. And as well in all of this, the U.S. government, through the State Department, has issued travel advisory to Americans in the wake of what the State Department is calling the largest attack of international terrorism in Europe in recent memory, warning Americans to be very vigilant if they take public transportation. About a million Americans visit Spain every year. About 30,000 Americans live here -- Carol. COSTELLO: Beautiful place, Spain, especially Madrid. Wanted to ask you about those troops in Iraq, the Spanish troops. There are 1,300 there. There have been vows to remove them. What's the status on that?

GOODMAN: The status is that in the next couple of weeks or sooner we will have a change of government here. Now in the wake of the Madrid train bombings, just three days after those bombings, there was a huge upset. The ruling conservative party that had backed the Bush administration on the war in Iraq and put the 1,300 troops in Iraq, and they have been involved in some firefights in the last couple of days, that government was ousted by the voters in the wake of the bombings.

A new socialist government is due to take power after the investiture vote here in the coming days. They are vowing -- the new prime minister-elect is vowing to pull Spain's 1,300 troops out of Iraq unless there is a U.N. mandate by the end of June. And there was just a secret meeting with his new defense minister-designate with Donald Rumsfeld, the U.S. Secretary of Defense, in Washington. Very quiet, very secretive in the last couple of days repeating Mr. Jose Bono, the new Defense Secretary, here saying we will pull those troops out, but we will remain a close ally of the United States -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Al Goodman live in Madrid this morning.

Coming up next on DAYBREAK, a sad day in Rwanda. One decade after the horrors there, survivors revisit the remnants of genocide.

This is DAYBREAK for Wednesday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports. It is 5:47 Eastern. Here is what is all new this morning.

As many as 12 U.S. Marines were killed in attacks by insurgents in the western Iraqi city of Ramadi. Pentagon officials believe the attacks were carried out by former members of the ruling Ba'ath Party.

Flooding, triggered by a series of fast moving storms, is being blamed for at least one death in central Texas. Some parts of the area saw up to an inch and a half of rain in just 30 minutes.

In money news, one advocacy group in Europe is upset over Google's planned rollout of a new e-mail service. The group says the company's scanning and storage of e-mail violates European laws.

In sports, a record crowd turned out to watch the Florida Marlins begin the defense of their World Series title. In the opener, the fish beat the Expos 4 to 3. Sorry Bendan Canada (ph).

In culture, CNN founder Ted Turner gets his, gets a major honor today, the unveiling of his very own star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Congratulations, Ted.

MYERS: Wow! Hey, congratulations, Ted.

COSTELLO: It's awesome.

MYERS: And did you hear the Tigers are now 2 and 0 -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Get out!

MYERS: Two and 0.

COSTELLO: Magic number 160.

MYERS: They are unbeaten.

(WEATHER FORECAST)

COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines this morning.

This is the official day of remembrance in Rwanda, and what a horror to remember, the genocide of nearly one million people. It's been a decade now since that slaughter.

Our Jeff Koinange joins us live from Kigali.

And just the music that you sent us, Jeff, it gave me goosebumps, it was so sad.

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Carol. And being on the ground gave us even more goosebumps. And this is the first of two events. We are in the national stadium here, capacity about 50,000. Carol, it is filled to the bleachers. Over behind me, the heads of states are just arriving, the dignitaries, the invited guests. In about 15 minutes, the whole stadium will observe exactly three minutes of silence. Three minutes in honor of the close to one million people who lost their lives beginning this very day exactly 10 years ago.

Carol, you can hear that, they are applauding the arrival of one of the presidents and they keep flowing in. They keep going. There's about half a dozen African presidents. The Belgium prime minister is here, hundreds of other dignitaries and guests, thousands and thousands of locals. And, Carol, the band has just struck up a tune. It looks like the event will begin in a few minutes. But I can tell you, the mood is very somber here on the ground as people remember close to one million, mostly Tutsi and moderate Hutus, who lost their lives in those 100 days of brutal savagery -- Carol.

COSTELLO: You know, Jeff, I wanted to ask you, the Hutus and the Tutsis, do they get along today? What's the relationship?

KOINANGE: It's amazing you should ask that, Carol. They do get along, because they have to get along. What happened 10 years ago the people feel was really wrong and should never happen again. And that word never happen again was also -- was also told 50 years ago during the Holocaust in Nazi Germany, but 50 years later, it happened again. They do get along because they have to get along. But, Carol, it's amazing, in some parts they get along more than you'd ever believe. Some killers, admitted killers living side by side with victims and survivors. They are getting along, Carol. It's going to be a long road to heal, but it begins right here on this 10th anniversary when Rwandans commemorate the day that genocide began -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Jeff, any U.S. representatives there today?

KOINANGE: The only person I see, Carol, is Pierre Prosper, the former prosecutor -- or he is actually the ambassador for war crimes around the world. He is the one the senior ranking U.S. official that I see. We're going to have to look around to see who else we see.

But other officials present, many African presidents, South Africa's Thabo Mbeki, Kenya's Mwai Kibaki, Uganda's Yoweri Museveni and a whole sprinkling of other leaders from across the continent. A lot of African leaders giving their fellow African presidents some comfort in this time of need, showing solidarity that they are with them. They stand with them now, even though 10 years ago no African nation came in their support. Ten years later, they have come to support President Kagame -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jeff Koinange live in Rwanda, Africa this morning.

We're going to take a short break. We'll be back with much more right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Welcome back to DAYBREAK, 5:55 Eastern.

It is time for 'Stories from the States,' and we're talking milk prices today.

MYERS: Front page.

COSTELLO: Take a look at this front page. This is from "The Times" out of Muncie, Indiana. A gallon of milk.

MYERS: $2.99.

COSTELLO: It's insane.

MYERS: It is -- it is crazy, because you know a lot of kids have -- still have to drink this stuff. I mean, right? I mean this is -- what's going to happen to school lunch prices, too? I mean this is -- this is nuts.

COSTELLO: Well it's...

MYERS: It's not what's going on with butter, what's going on with cheese.

COSTELLO: Well exactly, everything is up because milk prices are up. And it's interesting, the article points to this as the reason, a stronger economy is translating into consumer demand for richer foods, including premium ice creams and cheese, and that's what's -- and there is a shortage of cows.

MYERS: How can that be?

COSTELLO: Because a couple -- let me -- let me -- let me get this right. Because the demand wasn't as high, so the farmers thinned their herds.

MYERS: Called the herd.

COSTELLO: That's right. So now there's a shortage of cows, hence the shortage of milk, hence the higher prices.

MYERS: So now all the cows -- they'll be making more cows and in three years we'll have a surplus of milk because there will be more cows than we need.

COSTELLO: We need some cow love out there.

MYERS: Come on, cows, let's go.

COSTELLO: From the -- from the "El Paso Times," I'm telling you -- Chad.

MYERS: Rain, rain, rain.

COSTELLO: The rain out there is terrible.

MYERS: It is ugly. Even a school bus was an incident yesterday. Twenty-two injured in a school bus. I-20 shut down because of a bridge that's collapsed on there, a 17-mile detour. One person was killed on the detour because that road flooded as well. Ugly rain out there -- Carol.

COSTELLO: OK, this from the "Seattle Post-Intelligencer," Kurt Cobain. Can you believe it's been this long?

MYERS: Ten years.

COSTELLO: Yes, 10 years that he killed himself. And of course he left a suicide note saying it was better to burn out than fade away.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Really a sad story. And what an impact he made on music. He was just...

MYERS: On grunge.

COSTELLO: ... 27 years old.

MYERS: Was that what he was?

COSTELLO: Twenty-seven.

MYERS: Wow! Wow! All right.

COSTELLO: Just like Jim Morrison and yes, sure is sad.

MYERS: Ten years, wow!

COSTELLO: Well escalating violence in Iraq overnight. Iraqi insurgents and U.S. forces go head to head in Fallujah. We're going to take you live again to Baghdad to get the latest.

And some not so sweet news on the health front. We'll point the finger at a possible cause for rising obesity rates. You stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: A new day and new violence on the streets of Iraq. These images a reminder that one-year later a bitter fight rages on for Americans and Iraqis.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 7, 2004 - 05:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: In the Shiite enclave of Sadr City, U.S. forces and Shiite militia go head to head.
Good morning to you, welcome to the second half hour of DAYBREAK. It is Wednesday, April 7. From the CNN Global Headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you for joining us.

Let me bring you up to date now.

A large scale attack by Iraqi insurgents kill as many as 12 Marines in Ramadi. That is west of Baghdad. It was one of the deadliest days for U.S. troops.

A solemn anniversary in Rwanda, it is the 10th anniversary of the start of the genocide which -- in which 800,000 people were slaughtered in that central African country.

In Japan, a court rules that the prime minister has violated the constitution by visiting a religious shrine honoring the nation's war dead. The Japanese executed for war crimes are among those buried there.

Here is the scene in Mississippi this morning where an Amtrak train has derailed. One person was killed, 35 hurt at least critically -- 3 at least critically, I should say.

To the Forecast Center now and, Chad, good morning.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: These are among the deadliest days of the war in Iraq. As many as 30 U.S. troops have been killed in three days of fighting across several cities. The most viscous street-to-street battles have been taking place in Ramadi. Up to 12 Marines were killed in an attack by former Ba'athist Party members.

In nearby Fallujah, well that's also a war zone. Marines there are fighting pitched battles with Sunni insurgents. Doctors say at least 36 Iraqi civilians have been killed.

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says if commanders on the ground ask for more troops, they will be sent. About 135,000 U.S. troops are in Iraq right now. And radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is one of the main enemies of the U.S. right now. He says he is willing to die resisting any attempt to capture him. Al-Sadr has taken refuge in the Imam Ali Mosque in Najaf, one of Shi'a Islam's holiest shrines.

The U.S. troops are now faced with battling both Sunnis and Shiites, so let's take you live to Baghdad now and Jim Clancy.

Hello -- Jim.

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol, once again.

Listen, let's put some things into perspective here about what's going on and just how important all of this is. We heard in a press briefing a short while ago where the U.S. had -- coalition spokesman saying that this wasn't a war on two fronts. The reality is in some ways that is the correct statement, there is one front, it is Iraq. It is pushing forward this vision of a future Iraq.

But at the same time, when you look at the situation, it is two fronts, very well and truly. You've got what the Marines are fighting for in Fallujah and Ramadi. That is a Sunni insurgency. We don't know that all of them are Ba'athist. Certainly many of them may be. But some of them may be driven by nationalism. They may be driven by many other motives that are on the ground here.

Perhaps more troubling, Muqtada Sadr. And in the briefing we got it more than once that the U.S. military is going to -- and I'm quoting here -- "attack and destroy the al Mehdi Army." This is the private militia of the young Shi'a Muslim cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.

Al-Sadr has been in the background for months and months building up this army, causing trouble around the fringes, setting up his own courts and his own prisons. He wants to seize power. He is making a bold move right now to do just that, although he does not have substantial support within the Shi'a community, the majority community here in Iraq. But he does have the potential to cause a lot of trouble.

The problem here is he has retreated to Najaf. Now he is not inside the Imam Ali Mosque, as we understand it this morning. He is in his office. It is literally just footsteps away from the Imam Ali Mosque, and he would go there, certainly for sanctuary, should the U.S. come in and try to serve an arrest warrant for a murder one year ago that was in that precise spot. It was a rival cleric. Muqtada al-Sadr and his supporters around him are making a bid by trying to take over police headquarters and things like that.

As of this morning, coalition sources would only say that they have a strong presence outside of Najaf. Now yesterday we heard that a lot of the government buildings, a lot of the police stations inside Najaf were under the control of this al Mehdi Army, this private militia, a very troubling development. The U.S. response is going to have to be carefully planned. Add to all of that hundreds and hundreds of thousands of pilgrims are coming there this weekend.

COSTELLO: Jim Clancy reporting live from Baghdad this morning.

Now many of the troops taking on the Iraqi insurgents are from the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force that's based in Camp Pendleton, California. They took over from the Army's 82nd Airborne Division. They are assigned to the Sunni Triangle and the area extending to the border with Syria. As we have been telling you, the Marines are facing fierce fighting in the city of Ramadi. The U.S. military death toll in Iraq this month is 36, and it looks like resistance against the occupation is spreading.

Our senior international editor David Clinch joins us now.

And, David, before we get to that, I want to go back to Sheikh al-Sadr...

DAVID CLINCH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL EDITOR: Yes.

COSTELLO: ... holed up in this mosque in Najaf. And isn't...

CLINCH: Well, as Jim was saying, he's right next door in his office.

COSTELLO: In the office, right.

CLINCH: Yes.

COSTELLO: In the office, but he can just scurry right into the mosque if he's in any danger.

CLINCH: Yes.

COSTELLO: But isn't al-Sistani there as well in Najaf?

CLINCH: Al-Sistani has headquarters in Najaf. And here is the distinction between these two and it's very important to understand this. Sistani has the broad support in the Shiite community and has up until this point. While he has been creating some difficulty in this handover process on the political side done nothing to provoke violence and in fact, called for calm.

Sadr, on the other hand, who is now just down the road from him, has been doing the opposite. So a very interesting dynamic.

COSTELLO: Well is there any danger of them joining forces?

CLINCH: I wouldn't say joining forces, but there certainly is an interest in exactly what the message coming from Sistani will be in the coming days. And Jim pointing out there's a very big Shiite holiday coming up this Saturday. Millions of Shiites from Iraq and also, of course, from Iran next door will be coming into these Shiite cities, Najaf, Karbala, Nasiriya. All of these cities which, up until just recently, have been relatively calm, now the scene of quite considerable violence. And Sadr City and Baghdad, as well, of course.

COSTELLO: Well let me put this to you, al-Sistani wants a part in the new government of Iraq. He wants a big part of the new government in Iraq. So why doesn't he step in and say stop it?

CLINCH: Well I think...

COSTELLO: Why doesn't he talk to al-Sadr?

CLINCH: Well he has issued a message calling for calm, but he has also issued a message saying that the United States should not be attacking the militia and should not be attacking al-Sadr. And what he meant by that was the initial action of shutting down the newspapers and arresting his assistants. He hasn't made a comment on the violence that has happened since then.

So, yes, he wants a part in that. The Shiites are the majority. And this is the fear, of course, of Sistani and the Shiites is that this transition of power will not leave them with the majority of the power after the transition. So he has definitely got a part. And our news gathering on this story, on the Shiite side, and of course on the other side of the story, the Sunni insurgency in Ramadi and in Fallujah is continuing, within reason. It's not exactly safe for us to go into these cities. There is a full crew in Ramadi -- I mean in Fallujah. We expect to get some more material of what we're told is fighting, fierce fighting going on right now.

COSTELLO: David Clinch, many thanks to you.

CLINCH: OK.

COSTELLO: Tens of thousands are expected to pack St. Peter's Square in Rome this weekend. It's the culmination of Holy Week. Security has been tightened in the run-up to Easter services, but are more precautions needed?

Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci joins us live on the phone with more on the security concerns.

Hello.

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF: Hello, Carol.

Well Italian officials are telling us that there is no specific threat against the Vatican or any other particular target in this country at this time. But a series of recent police raids and arrests suggest that the Italian government remains concerned about the possibility that this country may be next on the terrorist's list. In recent months, indeed there have been several arrests there and of individuals believed to be offering some kind of a logistical support to al Qaeda. Anytime officials are concerned that some terrorist cells, similar to the one, for example, responsible for the attacks in Spain, may operate in this country as well.

Now of course the Italian towns such as Rome, Florence, Venice are rapidly filling with tourists from all over the world to celebrate the Easter holidays. Italian security officials in the past have identified at least 8,000 possible targets and have recently said that they have increased security in two major squares, one in Florence and one in Pisa, where the famous Leaning Tower is located. Here in Rome, Pope John Paul II plans to celebrate a series of open-air events in masses in St. Peter's Square.

But all that said, I must tell you that there is not really a feeling that the country is under siege. Security at the Vatican this morning was present but there was no more police than usual. And again, so there is no need to make any unnecessary alarmism, but officials here remain vigilant because they know that terrorists could strike any time at any place.

And, you know, but regarding the Vatican itself, I mean last Sunday on Palm Sunday, Pope John Paul II at the end of his mass decided to take a tour of the square. He did it in an open deck car. He does have a car with bulletproof windows. He did not choose it to use that car. So security officials at the Vatican, while remaining vigilant, they are also -- you know they are also confident that all precautions are being taken.

COSTELLO: Yes, I don't think much can stop Pope John Paul.

Alessio Vinci live by phone from Rome this morning.

Let's move on to Spain, a very Catholic nation as well. It's also stepping up security this Easter. This is the first big holiday since that deadly terrorist train bombing.

Al Goodman is live in Madrid for us this morning.

Al, what kind of security measures are being taken there?

AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, first message, this is not a relaxing Easter week holiday. This is a nation very much on edge. Tens of thousands of police officers and other security personnel are on duty, many leads for them. They usually would have had vacation, have been cancelled.

All of this they are stepping up security at train stations, on the Bullet line tracks, at bus stations, at airports and at other strategic installations like nuclear power plants and ports and damns. We were at a major damn, the largest one that provides drinking water, in the capital an hour north of here on Tuesday. We saw soldiers, we saw paramilitary civil guards guarding that place.

All of this coming, Carol, in the aftermath of the Madrid commuter train bombings last month that killed 190 people and wounded 1,800 others. And then last weekend, six suspected Islamic terrorists linked to those attacks blew themselves up in a Madrid suburb as police closed in.

Also over the weekend, a major newspaper received a fax from the group linked to al Qaeda vowing to turn Spain into an inferno if Spanish troops are not removed from Iraq and Afghanistan. And as well in all of this, the U.S. government, through the State Department, has issued travel advisory to Americans in the wake of what the State Department is calling the largest attack of international terrorism in Europe in recent memory, warning Americans to be very vigilant if they take public transportation. About a million Americans visit Spain every year. About 30,000 Americans live here -- Carol. COSTELLO: Beautiful place, Spain, especially Madrid. Wanted to ask you about those troops in Iraq, the Spanish troops. There are 1,300 there. There have been vows to remove them. What's the status on that?

GOODMAN: The status is that in the next couple of weeks or sooner we will have a change of government here. Now in the wake of the Madrid train bombings, just three days after those bombings, there was a huge upset. The ruling conservative party that had backed the Bush administration on the war in Iraq and put the 1,300 troops in Iraq, and they have been involved in some firefights in the last couple of days, that government was ousted by the voters in the wake of the bombings.

A new socialist government is due to take power after the investiture vote here in the coming days. They are vowing -- the new prime minister-elect is vowing to pull Spain's 1,300 troops out of Iraq unless there is a U.N. mandate by the end of June. And there was just a secret meeting with his new defense minister-designate with Donald Rumsfeld, the U.S. Secretary of Defense, in Washington. Very quiet, very secretive in the last couple of days repeating Mr. Jose Bono, the new Defense Secretary, here saying we will pull those troops out, but we will remain a close ally of the United States -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Al Goodman live in Madrid this morning.

Coming up next on DAYBREAK, a sad day in Rwanda. One decade after the horrors there, survivors revisit the remnants of genocide.

This is DAYBREAK for Wednesday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports. It is 5:47 Eastern. Here is what is all new this morning.

As many as 12 U.S. Marines were killed in attacks by insurgents in the western Iraqi city of Ramadi. Pentagon officials believe the attacks were carried out by former members of the ruling Ba'ath Party.

Flooding, triggered by a series of fast moving storms, is being blamed for at least one death in central Texas. Some parts of the area saw up to an inch and a half of rain in just 30 minutes.

In money news, one advocacy group in Europe is upset over Google's planned rollout of a new e-mail service. The group says the company's scanning and storage of e-mail violates European laws.

In sports, a record crowd turned out to watch the Florida Marlins begin the defense of their World Series title. In the opener, the fish beat the Expos 4 to 3. Sorry Bendan Canada (ph).

In culture, CNN founder Ted Turner gets his, gets a major honor today, the unveiling of his very own star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. Congratulations, Ted.

MYERS: Wow! Hey, congratulations, Ted.

COSTELLO: It's awesome.

MYERS: And did you hear the Tigers are now 2 and 0 -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Get out!

MYERS: Two and 0.

COSTELLO: Magic number 160.

MYERS: They are unbeaten.

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COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines this morning.

This is the official day of remembrance in Rwanda, and what a horror to remember, the genocide of nearly one million people. It's been a decade now since that slaughter.

Our Jeff Koinange joins us live from Kigali.

And just the music that you sent us, Jeff, it gave me goosebumps, it was so sad.

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Carol. And being on the ground gave us even more goosebumps. And this is the first of two events. We are in the national stadium here, capacity about 50,000. Carol, it is filled to the bleachers. Over behind me, the heads of states are just arriving, the dignitaries, the invited guests. In about 15 minutes, the whole stadium will observe exactly three minutes of silence. Three minutes in honor of the close to one million people who lost their lives beginning this very day exactly 10 years ago.

Carol, you can hear that, they are applauding the arrival of one of the presidents and they keep flowing in. They keep going. There's about half a dozen African presidents. The Belgium prime minister is here, hundreds of other dignitaries and guests, thousands and thousands of locals. And, Carol, the band has just struck up a tune. It looks like the event will begin in a few minutes. But I can tell you, the mood is very somber here on the ground as people remember close to one million, mostly Tutsi and moderate Hutus, who lost their lives in those 100 days of brutal savagery -- Carol.

COSTELLO: You know, Jeff, I wanted to ask you, the Hutus and the Tutsis, do they get along today? What's the relationship?

KOINANGE: It's amazing you should ask that, Carol. They do get along, because they have to get along. What happened 10 years ago the people feel was really wrong and should never happen again. And that word never happen again was also -- was also told 50 years ago during the Holocaust in Nazi Germany, but 50 years later, it happened again. They do get along because they have to get along. But, Carol, it's amazing, in some parts they get along more than you'd ever believe. Some killers, admitted killers living side by side with victims and survivors. They are getting along, Carol. It's going to be a long road to heal, but it begins right here on this 10th anniversary when Rwandans commemorate the day that genocide began -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Jeff, any U.S. representatives there today?

KOINANGE: The only person I see, Carol, is Pierre Prosper, the former prosecutor -- or he is actually the ambassador for war crimes around the world. He is the one the senior ranking U.S. official that I see. We're going to have to look around to see who else we see.

But other officials present, many African presidents, South Africa's Thabo Mbeki, Kenya's Mwai Kibaki, Uganda's Yoweri Museveni and a whole sprinkling of other leaders from across the continent. A lot of African leaders giving their fellow African presidents some comfort in this time of need, showing solidarity that they are with them. They stand with them now, even though 10 years ago no African nation came in their support. Ten years later, they have come to support President Kagame -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Jeff Koinange live in Rwanda, Africa this morning.

We're going to take a short break. We'll be back with much more right after this.

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COSTELLO: Welcome back to DAYBREAK, 5:55 Eastern.

It is time for 'Stories from the States,' and we're talking milk prices today.

MYERS: Front page.

COSTELLO: Take a look at this front page. This is from "The Times" out of Muncie, Indiana. A gallon of milk.

MYERS: $2.99.

COSTELLO: It's insane.

MYERS: It is -- it is crazy, because you know a lot of kids have -- still have to drink this stuff. I mean, right? I mean this is -- what's going to happen to school lunch prices, too? I mean this is -- this is nuts.

COSTELLO: Well it's...

MYERS: It's not what's going on with butter, what's going on with cheese.

COSTELLO: Well exactly, everything is up because milk prices are up. And it's interesting, the article points to this as the reason, a stronger economy is translating into consumer demand for richer foods, including premium ice creams and cheese, and that's what's -- and there is a shortage of cows.

MYERS: How can that be?

COSTELLO: Because a couple -- let me -- let me -- let me get this right. Because the demand wasn't as high, so the farmers thinned their herds.

MYERS: Called the herd.

COSTELLO: That's right. So now there's a shortage of cows, hence the shortage of milk, hence the higher prices.

MYERS: So now all the cows -- they'll be making more cows and in three years we'll have a surplus of milk because there will be more cows than we need.

COSTELLO: We need some cow love out there.

MYERS: Come on, cows, let's go.

COSTELLO: From the -- from the "El Paso Times," I'm telling you -- Chad.

MYERS: Rain, rain, rain.

COSTELLO: The rain out there is terrible.

MYERS: It is ugly. Even a school bus was an incident yesterday. Twenty-two injured in a school bus. I-20 shut down because of a bridge that's collapsed on there, a 17-mile detour. One person was killed on the detour because that road flooded as well. Ugly rain out there -- Carol.

COSTELLO: OK, this from the "Seattle Post-Intelligencer," Kurt Cobain. Can you believe it's been this long?

MYERS: Ten years.

COSTELLO: Yes, 10 years that he killed himself. And of course he left a suicide note saying it was better to burn out than fade away.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Really a sad story. And what an impact he made on music. He was just...

MYERS: On grunge.

COSTELLO: ... 27 years old.

MYERS: Was that what he was?

COSTELLO: Twenty-seven.

MYERS: Wow! Wow! All right.

COSTELLO: Just like Jim Morrison and yes, sure is sad.

MYERS: Ten years, wow!

COSTELLO: Well escalating violence in Iraq overnight. Iraqi insurgents and U.S. forces go head to head in Fallujah. We're going to take you live again to Baghdad to get the latest.

And some not so sweet news on the health front. We'll point the finger at a possible cause for rising obesity rates. You stay tuned.

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COSTELLO: A new day and new violence on the streets of Iraq. These images a reminder that one-year later a bitter fight rages on for Americans and Iraqis.

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