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American Morning
Action in Several Iraqi Cities as American Causalities Mount
Aired April 07, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY SPOKESMAN: It'll be precise and it'll be powerful and it will succeed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. U.S. troops in Iraq vowing to crush an outlaw army and a fast-moving rebellion.
In Fallujah, Marines fighting another fierce battle today in the heart of that city. One of the few journalists reporting from the battlefield -- what he is seeing today.
Here in the U.S., late results in a vote that pitted the giant Wal-Mart against the California suburbs.
And how great it feels to be the champ, twice in two days.
All ahead this morning on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: All right, good morning. Wednesday morning here, another busy one. Soledad is out.
Heidi Collins is in today, and a lot to cover today regarding Iraq. We're going to get to all of it.
Retired general David Grange one of our many guests today talking about U.S. military strategy in Fallujah and other cities across Iraq, especially Ramadi, just west of Fallujah.
New videotape just in to CNN, not quite sure when this was taken. This apparently in the town of Fallujah, talking with Tony Perry from "The L.A. Times," he's embedded with the U.S. Marines, very interesting comments about what he is watching now in this battle over the past 24 hours.
He said at this point it is nothing short of a route for the U.S. Marines.
At one point he mentioned in an interview we taped a short time ago that Iraqi bodies are being "stacked up like cordwood," his words, in one section of Fallujah.
So much more on what's happening in that confrontation, specifically Fallujah, stay tuned for more here.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN: Also we are going to be looking ahead to tomorrow's testimony from Condoleezza Rice before the 9/11 Commission when we talk to Senator Carl Levin, a Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, also talking with Senator Chuck Hagel as well.
HEMMER: All right Jack Cafferty also -- good morning, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you -- hi, Bill.
June 30 is the deadline for the handover of power in Iraq. In light of what's going on in that country, is that a realistic date? We'll take a look at that in a few minutes.
HEMMER: All right, Jack.
Top stories now -- let's start in Germany where the only person convicted in connection with the 9/11 terror attacks now released for now anyway. Mounir el Motassadeq was found guilty last year of aiding a Humburg al Qaeda cell. A federal appeals court overturned the verdict last month. His lawyers now say Motassadeq is being freed until a retrial, expected to start in the month of June.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says more troops could be sent to Iraq if necessary; that announcement comes as coalition troops battle some major uprisings in parts of the country.
Defense officials say commanders are studying ways they might increase troops if violence spreads more. A live report from Baghdad and Jim Clancy standing by in a moment.
From California now, voters in the L.A. suburb of Inglewood are saying no to a super-sized Wal-Mart. More than 60 percent of the people voted against plans for the sprawling shopping center. Voters say they were afraid the Wal-Mart would force mom and pop shops to shut down. Andy is watching this; he has much more in a moment also.
Sports note: first the men, now the women. Lady Huskies of UConn -- University of Connecticut -- beat the Lady Vols of Tennessee last night; that's their third straight national title.
70-61 the final -- on Monday night remember the men's team beat up on Georgia Tech. UConn now the first school in history to win both titles in the same year. In title town stores (ph) Connecticut got a bit out of hand earlier today. Police arrested at least five for jumping on top of TV trucks, flipping two cars and throwing garbage cans.
All just another night out in Connecticut.
COLLINS: I was so hoping we weren't going to hear that today after that win.
HEMMER: It's almost inevitable isn't it? Anyway, congratulations to the Lady Huskies. Well done yet again this year.
COLLINS: Awesome game.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: To Iraq now. The tactics and weaponry being used by the American military in Iraq may be a good indicator of the severity of the situation there.
There's action in several Iraqi cities and American causalities have mounted in the last day. So have the number of Iraqis killed.
Straight to Baghdad now where Jim Clancy is once again there for us this morning -- Jim, hello.
JIM CLANCY, CNN: Heidi, good afternoon from Baghdad.
As you described, a battle underway in earnest. You talk about helicopter gunships -- in one, Abrams tanks and other heavy equipment that's been moved in there in this fight. Add to that fighter jets that were heard over the city of Fallujah this day.
That battle that is going on right now is one in earnest. U.S. Marines have taken up a couple of buildings where they are using to stage other operations; there's fighting going on, we understand, on at least two fronts around the city -- smoke seen rising, casualties rising as well along with it.
The heaviest U.S. casualties overnight certainly coming from the frontal assault that they got from suspected Sunni Muslim insurgents in a town of Ramadi, also in the Sunni triangle there, it another hotspot for trouble.
They assaulted Marines, 12 were killed and some 20 other Marines were wounded. At least a dozen of the insurgents were killed; it is not known how many of their forces were wounded in that seven hour- long battle.
Meantime a lot of the focus still on Muqtada Al-Sadr and his many army. Today the U.S. military, General Mark Kimmitt making it clear they had plans for that army. He outlined them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMITT: We will attack to destroy the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) army. Those offensive operations will be deliberate, they will be precise and they will be powerful and they will succeed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: The -- the military wing, if you will, of Muqtada Al- Sadr's movement, his private militia has stirred up trouble in some six cities across Iraq, challenging the coalition for authority in those cities, taking over police stations, government buildings. We understand right now coalition forces on the outskirts of Najaf. That is where Muqtada Al-Sadr is located right now.
Perhaps seeking sanctuary from a murder warrant that is still outstanding for him -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Jim, we're getting some reports that Iraqis in Fallujah are being told to prepare for jihad. What are you hearing there about that?
CLANCY: Well, we know that the mosques broadcast appeals for blood; we know that as this situation intensifies there's a lot of fears.
In the eyes of some senior U.S. military officers here in Iraq the Sunnis fear that there will be retribution against them, they want to fight this occupation by any means. What you have on that front, I think, in Fallujah this day is a call to arms -- the insurgents themselves appealing to other to join them.
The question will be how many stand up and do that; how many want to see order restored under the occupation, under the guise of U.S. forces in the area. That's a critical question for the Marines today as well as their opponents.
COLLINS: Understood. All right, Jim Clancy, thanks so much. Live from Baghdad this morning.
HEMMER: Heidi also on the topic of Fallujah it's been one of the strong points with the insurgency and as Jim just mentioned the Marines now in action there again today.
"L.A. Times" reporter Tony Perry embedded with the U.S. Marines.
I spoke to him just a matter of minutes ago, asking him about the situation today and what he is seeing in front of him there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY PERRY, LOS ANGELES TIMES: The Marines are actively engaged in firefights in at least two locations with insurgents and the major location at the fight that began about 24 hours ago and has been off and on went on through the night, picked up in the morning and the Marines are pushing the insurgents out of a neighborhood; they're going door to door, finding insurgent locations, they've engaged them in firefights.
One of the main locations where the insurgents have been firing from is a mosque. The mosque has now been surrounded. The Marines are using tanks, they have infantry and they also have air power overhead as they did all night.
This all began 24 hours ago when the insurgents attacked a Marine patrol that had only ventured maybe two dozen yards beyond the checkpoint into the city.
They were attacked and three Marines were wounded and the Marines counter attacked very ferociously with tanks and infantry and Cobra helicopters and then the battle was on and the insurgents used at least rudimentary strategy. There were platoon-sized groups, they brought in buses, they blocked off streets, they hit the Marines with power fire, they had some anti-aircraft facilities, and they were shooting at the helicopters. And the Marines responded and it took, I think, three additional casualties, but have killed dozens of the insurgents and pushing them out of this neighborhood.
HEMMER: Tony, do you believe this has been planned for some time by the U.S. Marines?
PERRY: No. The plan, I think, was to go much slower to arrive to assess. The Marines only took over this Sunni triangle area what maybe ten days ago. They were going to go slow, they were going to get to know people; they were going to send patrols out. They were going to sort of slowly move. Then, of course, the vicious events of a week ago where the four Americans were murdered in the SUV.
That changed things wholly and that required a vigorous response and now that response is underway.
So, no, the Marines are moving much more quickly than they had planned. And that shows to a certain degree. The Iraqi civil defense people are helping but not in the numbers they had hoped. They are just not ready for it yet.
HEMMER: How much control do the Marines have in Fallujah now and how much have they penetrated that town?
PERRY: Oh, they penetrated a good deal. They're not at the core of the city -- they don't need to be at the core -- you have to think of Fallujah as one of those cities that really doesn't -- it's not like Los Angeles. There is no downtown.
There's nothing but suburb, if you will. So they are deep into Fallujah, they will be deeper with every passing hour. Whether they get to the core in a day or 36 hours or six hours from now is unknown.
Because they know that even when they get there the fight really isn't over. You don't wipe out a movement like this that's been here for decades and that is exceedingly well armed in a day, two days, a week, maybe not even a month.
This is the first step in many steps but it is the first step and it is going down right now.
HEMMER: Again, Tony Perry from "The L.A. Times" a few moments ago. He's also reporting 50 Syrian fighters have been apprehended inside Fallujah.
He says the number of foreign fighters have been encountered there in that city and as the operation continues. He went on to say that on the Iraqi side the causalities are substantial. In the most vague of terms he said dozens have been killed.
In one part of the city he said Iraqi bodies were "stacked up like cordwood." That report from Tony Perry embedded with the Marines there in Fallujah.
The president in his Texas ranch today talking about the Iraqi situation with his national security team by video teleconference today also the top U.S. military and civilian officials back in Iraq also said to be involved in those discussions.
Let's bring in our Brig. Gen. David Grange live in Chicago to talk more about this today.
Good to have you here back with us. You were listening to Tony Perry. He gives the clear impression that the Marines are having overwhelming success now 24 hours after going in to Fallujah.
Your reaction to what you just heard there general?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED): Well, first of all, I really think Tony's report was excellent and very stable.
He gave the most comprehensive report I've heard to date on scene. Tough fighting and, keep in mind that you can't get hung up on time and you can't get hung up on numbers. In other words, we talk about killed on coalition side and on the insurgent side or local side. Numbers don't necessarily equate to the effectiveness of a fight.
It's a key piece, it's something you can measure so people hang onto it, but it's not the only piece that you have to look at and time with momentum is critical because sometimes you want to go slow and sometimes you want to go fast and so when someone says well we've been waiting so many days, why aren't we there yet and that -- that's why I liked Tony's report. He explained why it's important to look at time depending on the situation. That's very important.
I think the Marines have a handle on it, it's a tough fight, a city fighting, there's strongholds of insurgents throughout the city. Many of them are foreign fighters as was stated.
A lot of weaponry, a lot of modern, new weapons, not old AK-47s but a lot of new stuff out there. That would be a concern of how much weaponry is actually stored or has been infiltrated into this country.
HEMMER: General, we're looking at some videotape here that we are seeing for the first time here. We're not quite sure how old this videotape is but we do know it's in and around the area of Fallujah. You say there are three critical steps in retaking this city. Quickly, take our viewers through those steps.
GRANGE: Well, first of all, they have surrounded, they have cordoned off the city to keep the insurgents that are in there from leaving or reinforcements from coming in.
The other is then they have to systematically go after certain strong -- well, actually gain key terrain in the city. Terrain that will enable them to conduct future operations and they're starting to do that. There's been some reports of that. And then go after the strongholds and the insurgents. The difficulty in the city is that at times its difficult to identify friend and foe or the local and the insurgent and when we talk about Iraqi deaths its hard to tell how many of those are actually insurgents and how many of them are local bystanders that are victims of combat.
So when you -- when a building is taken down, there's going to be collateral damage to facilities, there's going to be deaths to civilians that happen to be in the fighting area that are trapped, that cannot move out and that's the sad part of war but it's part of it. So I think that the Marines from what I've heard from what I've seen had a handle on the situation, but I don't think we should have expectations that this is going to be a very quick solution to Fallujah and Ramadi and these areas. It's going to take some time.
HEMMER: Point well taken. David Grange thanks there in Oakbrook, Illinois talking with us this morning. Also getting word from Tony Perry 2500 Marines involved in operation -- about 1,000 Iraqi forces, as well.
General, thanks for your thoughts there. Much more on this as we go throughout the morning here.
COLLINS: That's right and still to come this morning also an Amtrak train goes off the tracks in Mississippi, killing one and injuring dozens. We will hear from one of the passengers coming up next.
HEMMER: Also, in other news today the Kobe Bryant matter, there is now one issue on which both Bryant and his accuser do agree: the latest from Jeff Toobin on that topic still to come here straight ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: The FBI today looking into the derailment of an Amtrak passenger train. The city of New Orleans came off the tracks in central Mississippi last night. One person is dead, 35 injured. At least three of them critically we're told.
Cause not known but authorities say there were no early indications of foul play. The train was on a trip from New Orleans bound for the city of Chicago -- Heidi.
COLLINS: In the Kobe Bryant case, prosecutors and defense attorneys now agree on at least one thing but they're still laying blame on the other. Here now to look at the case as well as the latest developments in Rush Limbaugh's legal fight, CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Good morning to you, sir.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.
COLLINS: Thanks for being with us. Hey, Kobe Bryant's attorneys filed papers in court yesterday saying that the case has exacted a quote "personal and professional toll on Mr. Bryant that is as incalculable as it is indescribable."
What are they trying to do here? Everybody wants the trial to end, right?
TOOBIN: Everybody wants the trial there. You have the victims family has -- were the first ones to ask for a speedy trial. Prosecution is on record as saying they want a speedy trial, now the government is. The problem is, no one is willing to take the steps that will really produce a speedy trial.
The government has not produced all the discovery to the defense, not produced all its evidence. The defense hasn't dropped lots of the motions that it's filed.
So, both sides say they want a speedy trial, but it looks like there isn't going to be a speedy trial because of the actions of the government and the defense have taken.
Summer is looking like the earliest this thing could really go to trial.
COLLINS: Really? I mean, these aren't new lawyer or beginning lawyers. Why aren't they getting these...
TOOBIN: Well because they care more about the legal maneuvering than they do about a speedy trial. The defense really wants these motions. They want -- they are the ones who are trying to get all the medical records of the accuser.
That all takes time and the defense wants to do its -- and the prosecution wants to do its tests on the evidence; that's why they haven't produced everything to the defense.
COLLINS: OK, let's talk about Rush Limbaugh now for a minute if we could. Of course his lawyers are saying that his medical records were obtained unfairly. Is this a good case?
TOOBIN: Well this is very -- the quirk of Florida law here. What happened was the government got a search warrant from the doctors for the doctor's office and got Rush Limbaugh's records. What Rush Limbaugh's lawyers are saying is no, they shouldn't have gotten a search warrant; they should have gotten a subpoena. That's how that is the appropriate -- is the appropriate procedure. What's interesting about this case is that it raises issues of medical privacy that are actually going on across the country.
COLLINS: Right, and other people should be listening in on this. They should...
TOOBIN: Well in the -- the federal government is trying to get the records of abortion providers in the partial birth abortion case where the late term abortion case; they're trying to get the records of women who had abortions. A lot of people are very upset about it. It's why the ACLU -- which is no ally of Rush Limbaugh under normal circumstances; they're on Rush Limbaugh's side in this case just like they are the women patient's in the abortion case because they want to limit the ability of the government, any government, to get access to these papers.
COLLINS: Quickly, before I let you go. If Limbaugh gets those medical records back, what happens to the prosecutions case?
TOOBIN: Over, he wins.
COLLINS: Over.
TOOBIN: So this is a very big case for him. If he wins this case there is really no way for the government to bring it because it's all based on his evidence?
COLLINS: Who'd have thought Rush Limbaugh and the ACLU, huh?
TOOBIN: Together at last.
COLLINS: All right, Jeffrey Toobin thanks so much for that -- Bill.
HEMMER: Heidi, 21 past the hour. Back to Fallujah in a moment here. Watching this videotape just in to us from CNN. We believe it's in and around that city.
We do know what's happening; have a pretty good idea of what's happening in Fallujah, we do not have firm updates today in towns like Ramadi where about a dozen marines were killed there yesterday. Back to Iraq in a moment here as we continue right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Again want to show you these pictures near Fallujah. We believe U.S. Marines now fighting it out for that city and Tony Perry embedded with the Marines from "The L.A. Times" with us a bit earlier today giving us the clear impression that the Iraqis are losing, he says, and losing big.
About 2500 Marines involved in that battle, about 1,000 Iraqi forces moving block by block in the town of Fallujah. We have a firm idea of what's happening there. We do not have a firm idea of what's happening in towns like Ramadi just to the west of there in Sadr City back in northeastern Baghdad.
So, as we continue to gather information out of Iraq today be patient with us as we go throughout the morning here. We're getting it as quickly as we can from that country today.
COLLINS: Incredible. Time now for the Cafferty Files. "Question of the Day" from Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Heidi. The situation in Iraq going from bad to worse these days. Troops suffering heavier causalities, the fighting going on in six cities, heaviest combat as Bill mentioned in Fallujah, also Ramadi.
Twelve Marines killed there yesterday. Meanwhile, American commanders say they're going to arrest this rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr, who continues to stir his followers to keep up the fight against the coalition.
This gutless little worm is hiding in a mosque in Najaf and the question whether they're going to go in and drag him out of there. All this as the June 30 deadline for the transfer of power approaches in Iraq. The top U.S. administrator Paul Bremer says that the schedule is on track, they will do the handover in Iraq on June 30.
The senator John Kerry among others is questioning the timetable for this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to be successful by pursuing a policy that makes sense, that brings all nations to the table to understand the stakes and I think this administration has yet to provide Americans with a thorough understanding of exactly who we are turning the authority over to in June, and precisely what the consequences of that will be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: So here's the question: is the June 30 deadlines realistic? The e-mail address is am@cnn.com.
COLLINS: All right.
HEMMER: Give it again, Ted. Do we have it? All right, we're getting indications right now -- sorry, Jack -- while you were talking -- that the first pictures coming in from Ramadi as Jack mentioned -- this is the area yesterday where about a dozen Marines were taken out. We don't have specifics on that, but now we do have videotape.
This in the town of Ramadi and again we caution you as we watch these pictures that we do not have a whole lot of information. Our best report came from Tony Perry of the "L.A. Times" a short time ago. He is in Fallujah to give you and idea in the Sunni triangle.
Ramadi is essentially the far western reaches of the Sunni triangle, about 25 miles west of Fallujah. Fallujah itself is 30 miles west of Baghdad. They are the hotspots yet again today. We'll get you there back in a moment live.
More on Jack's question also. Senator Carl Levin is our guest here at the half hour. Break here. Back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired April 7, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY SPOKESMAN: It'll be precise and it'll be powerful and it will succeed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. U.S. troops in Iraq vowing to crush an outlaw army and a fast-moving rebellion.
In Fallujah, Marines fighting another fierce battle today in the heart of that city. One of the few journalists reporting from the battlefield -- what he is seeing today.
Here in the U.S., late results in a vote that pitted the giant Wal-Mart against the California suburbs.
And how great it feels to be the champ, twice in two days.
All ahead this morning on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
HEMMER: All right, good morning. Wednesday morning here, another busy one. Soledad is out.
Heidi Collins is in today, and a lot to cover today regarding Iraq. We're going to get to all of it.
Retired general David Grange one of our many guests today talking about U.S. military strategy in Fallujah and other cities across Iraq, especially Ramadi, just west of Fallujah.
New videotape just in to CNN, not quite sure when this was taken. This apparently in the town of Fallujah, talking with Tony Perry from "The L.A. Times," he's embedded with the U.S. Marines, very interesting comments about what he is watching now in this battle over the past 24 hours.
He said at this point it is nothing short of a route for the U.S. Marines.
At one point he mentioned in an interview we taped a short time ago that Iraqi bodies are being "stacked up like cordwood," his words, in one section of Fallujah.
So much more on what's happening in that confrontation, specifically Fallujah, stay tuned for more here.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN: Also we are going to be looking ahead to tomorrow's testimony from Condoleezza Rice before the 9/11 Commission when we talk to Senator Carl Levin, a Democrat on the Intelligence Committee, also talking with Senator Chuck Hagel as well.
HEMMER: All right Jack Cafferty also -- good morning, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you -- hi, Bill.
June 30 is the deadline for the handover of power in Iraq. In light of what's going on in that country, is that a realistic date? We'll take a look at that in a few minutes.
HEMMER: All right, Jack.
Top stories now -- let's start in Germany where the only person convicted in connection with the 9/11 terror attacks now released for now anyway. Mounir el Motassadeq was found guilty last year of aiding a Humburg al Qaeda cell. A federal appeals court overturned the verdict last month. His lawyers now say Motassadeq is being freed until a retrial, expected to start in the month of June.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld says more troops could be sent to Iraq if necessary; that announcement comes as coalition troops battle some major uprisings in parts of the country.
Defense officials say commanders are studying ways they might increase troops if violence spreads more. A live report from Baghdad and Jim Clancy standing by in a moment.
From California now, voters in the L.A. suburb of Inglewood are saying no to a super-sized Wal-Mart. More than 60 percent of the people voted against plans for the sprawling shopping center. Voters say they were afraid the Wal-Mart would force mom and pop shops to shut down. Andy is watching this; he has much more in a moment also.
Sports note: first the men, now the women. Lady Huskies of UConn -- University of Connecticut -- beat the Lady Vols of Tennessee last night; that's their third straight national title.
70-61 the final -- on Monday night remember the men's team beat up on Georgia Tech. UConn now the first school in history to win both titles in the same year. In title town stores (ph) Connecticut got a bit out of hand earlier today. Police arrested at least five for jumping on top of TV trucks, flipping two cars and throwing garbage cans.
All just another night out in Connecticut.
COLLINS: I was so hoping we weren't going to hear that today after that win.
HEMMER: It's almost inevitable isn't it? Anyway, congratulations to the Lady Huskies. Well done yet again this year.
COLLINS: Awesome game.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: To Iraq now. The tactics and weaponry being used by the American military in Iraq may be a good indicator of the severity of the situation there.
There's action in several Iraqi cities and American causalities have mounted in the last day. So have the number of Iraqis killed.
Straight to Baghdad now where Jim Clancy is once again there for us this morning -- Jim, hello.
JIM CLANCY, CNN: Heidi, good afternoon from Baghdad.
As you described, a battle underway in earnest. You talk about helicopter gunships -- in one, Abrams tanks and other heavy equipment that's been moved in there in this fight. Add to that fighter jets that were heard over the city of Fallujah this day.
That battle that is going on right now is one in earnest. U.S. Marines have taken up a couple of buildings where they are using to stage other operations; there's fighting going on, we understand, on at least two fronts around the city -- smoke seen rising, casualties rising as well along with it.
The heaviest U.S. casualties overnight certainly coming from the frontal assault that they got from suspected Sunni Muslim insurgents in a town of Ramadi, also in the Sunni triangle there, it another hotspot for trouble.
They assaulted Marines, 12 were killed and some 20 other Marines were wounded. At least a dozen of the insurgents were killed; it is not known how many of their forces were wounded in that seven hour- long battle.
Meantime a lot of the focus still on Muqtada Al-Sadr and his many army. Today the U.S. military, General Mark Kimmitt making it clear they had plans for that army. He outlined them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMITT: We will attack to destroy the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) army. Those offensive operations will be deliberate, they will be precise and they will be powerful and they will succeed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: The -- the military wing, if you will, of Muqtada Al- Sadr's movement, his private militia has stirred up trouble in some six cities across Iraq, challenging the coalition for authority in those cities, taking over police stations, government buildings. We understand right now coalition forces on the outskirts of Najaf. That is where Muqtada Al-Sadr is located right now.
Perhaps seeking sanctuary from a murder warrant that is still outstanding for him -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Jim, we're getting some reports that Iraqis in Fallujah are being told to prepare for jihad. What are you hearing there about that?
CLANCY: Well, we know that the mosques broadcast appeals for blood; we know that as this situation intensifies there's a lot of fears.
In the eyes of some senior U.S. military officers here in Iraq the Sunnis fear that there will be retribution against them, they want to fight this occupation by any means. What you have on that front, I think, in Fallujah this day is a call to arms -- the insurgents themselves appealing to other to join them.
The question will be how many stand up and do that; how many want to see order restored under the occupation, under the guise of U.S. forces in the area. That's a critical question for the Marines today as well as their opponents.
COLLINS: Understood. All right, Jim Clancy, thanks so much. Live from Baghdad this morning.
HEMMER: Heidi also on the topic of Fallujah it's been one of the strong points with the insurgency and as Jim just mentioned the Marines now in action there again today.
"L.A. Times" reporter Tony Perry embedded with the U.S. Marines.
I spoke to him just a matter of minutes ago, asking him about the situation today and what he is seeing in front of him there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY PERRY, LOS ANGELES TIMES: The Marines are actively engaged in firefights in at least two locations with insurgents and the major location at the fight that began about 24 hours ago and has been off and on went on through the night, picked up in the morning and the Marines are pushing the insurgents out of a neighborhood; they're going door to door, finding insurgent locations, they've engaged them in firefights.
One of the main locations where the insurgents have been firing from is a mosque. The mosque has now been surrounded. The Marines are using tanks, they have infantry and they also have air power overhead as they did all night.
This all began 24 hours ago when the insurgents attacked a Marine patrol that had only ventured maybe two dozen yards beyond the checkpoint into the city.
They were attacked and three Marines were wounded and the Marines counter attacked very ferociously with tanks and infantry and Cobra helicopters and then the battle was on and the insurgents used at least rudimentary strategy. There were platoon-sized groups, they brought in buses, they blocked off streets, they hit the Marines with power fire, they had some anti-aircraft facilities, and they were shooting at the helicopters. And the Marines responded and it took, I think, three additional casualties, but have killed dozens of the insurgents and pushing them out of this neighborhood.
HEMMER: Tony, do you believe this has been planned for some time by the U.S. Marines?
PERRY: No. The plan, I think, was to go much slower to arrive to assess. The Marines only took over this Sunni triangle area what maybe ten days ago. They were going to go slow, they were going to get to know people; they were going to send patrols out. They were going to sort of slowly move. Then, of course, the vicious events of a week ago where the four Americans were murdered in the SUV.
That changed things wholly and that required a vigorous response and now that response is underway.
So, no, the Marines are moving much more quickly than they had planned. And that shows to a certain degree. The Iraqi civil defense people are helping but not in the numbers they had hoped. They are just not ready for it yet.
HEMMER: How much control do the Marines have in Fallujah now and how much have they penetrated that town?
PERRY: Oh, they penetrated a good deal. They're not at the core of the city -- they don't need to be at the core -- you have to think of Fallujah as one of those cities that really doesn't -- it's not like Los Angeles. There is no downtown.
There's nothing but suburb, if you will. So they are deep into Fallujah, they will be deeper with every passing hour. Whether they get to the core in a day or 36 hours or six hours from now is unknown.
Because they know that even when they get there the fight really isn't over. You don't wipe out a movement like this that's been here for decades and that is exceedingly well armed in a day, two days, a week, maybe not even a month.
This is the first step in many steps but it is the first step and it is going down right now.
HEMMER: Again, Tony Perry from "The L.A. Times" a few moments ago. He's also reporting 50 Syrian fighters have been apprehended inside Fallujah.
He says the number of foreign fighters have been encountered there in that city and as the operation continues. He went on to say that on the Iraqi side the causalities are substantial. In the most vague of terms he said dozens have been killed.
In one part of the city he said Iraqi bodies were "stacked up like cordwood." That report from Tony Perry embedded with the Marines there in Fallujah.
The president in his Texas ranch today talking about the Iraqi situation with his national security team by video teleconference today also the top U.S. military and civilian officials back in Iraq also said to be involved in those discussions.
Let's bring in our Brig. Gen. David Grange live in Chicago to talk more about this today.
Good to have you here back with us. You were listening to Tony Perry. He gives the clear impression that the Marines are having overwhelming success now 24 hours after going in to Fallujah.
Your reaction to what you just heard there general?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RETIRED): Well, first of all, I really think Tony's report was excellent and very stable.
He gave the most comprehensive report I've heard to date on scene. Tough fighting and, keep in mind that you can't get hung up on time and you can't get hung up on numbers. In other words, we talk about killed on coalition side and on the insurgent side or local side. Numbers don't necessarily equate to the effectiveness of a fight.
It's a key piece, it's something you can measure so people hang onto it, but it's not the only piece that you have to look at and time with momentum is critical because sometimes you want to go slow and sometimes you want to go fast and so when someone says well we've been waiting so many days, why aren't we there yet and that -- that's why I liked Tony's report. He explained why it's important to look at time depending on the situation. That's very important.
I think the Marines have a handle on it, it's a tough fight, a city fighting, there's strongholds of insurgents throughout the city. Many of them are foreign fighters as was stated.
A lot of weaponry, a lot of modern, new weapons, not old AK-47s but a lot of new stuff out there. That would be a concern of how much weaponry is actually stored or has been infiltrated into this country.
HEMMER: General, we're looking at some videotape here that we are seeing for the first time here. We're not quite sure how old this videotape is but we do know it's in and around the area of Fallujah. You say there are three critical steps in retaking this city. Quickly, take our viewers through those steps.
GRANGE: Well, first of all, they have surrounded, they have cordoned off the city to keep the insurgents that are in there from leaving or reinforcements from coming in.
The other is then they have to systematically go after certain strong -- well, actually gain key terrain in the city. Terrain that will enable them to conduct future operations and they're starting to do that. There's been some reports of that. And then go after the strongholds and the insurgents. The difficulty in the city is that at times its difficult to identify friend and foe or the local and the insurgent and when we talk about Iraqi deaths its hard to tell how many of those are actually insurgents and how many of them are local bystanders that are victims of combat.
So when you -- when a building is taken down, there's going to be collateral damage to facilities, there's going to be deaths to civilians that happen to be in the fighting area that are trapped, that cannot move out and that's the sad part of war but it's part of it. So I think that the Marines from what I've heard from what I've seen had a handle on the situation, but I don't think we should have expectations that this is going to be a very quick solution to Fallujah and Ramadi and these areas. It's going to take some time.
HEMMER: Point well taken. David Grange thanks there in Oakbrook, Illinois talking with us this morning. Also getting word from Tony Perry 2500 Marines involved in operation -- about 1,000 Iraqi forces, as well.
General, thanks for your thoughts there. Much more on this as we go throughout the morning here.
COLLINS: That's right and still to come this morning also an Amtrak train goes off the tracks in Mississippi, killing one and injuring dozens. We will hear from one of the passengers coming up next.
HEMMER: Also, in other news today the Kobe Bryant matter, there is now one issue on which both Bryant and his accuser do agree: the latest from Jeff Toobin on that topic still to come here straight ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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HEMMER: The FBI today looking into the derailment of an Amtrak passenger train. The city of New Orleans came off the tracks in central Mississippi last night. One person is dead, 35 injured. At least three of them critically we're told.
Cause not known but authorities say there were no early indications of foul play. The train was on a trip from New Orleans bound for the city of Chicago -- Heidi.
COLLINS: In the Kobe Bryant case, prosecutors and defense attorneys now agree on at least one thing but they're still laying blame on the other. Here now to look at the case as well as the latest developments in Rush Limbaugh's legal fight, CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.
Good morning to you, sir.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.
COLLINS: Thanks for being with us. Hey, Kobe Bryant's attorneys filed papers in court yesterday saying that the case has exacted a quote "personal and professional toll on Mr. Bryant that is as incalculable as it is indescribable."
What are they trying to do here? Everybody wants the trial to end, right?
TOOBIN: Everybody wants the trial there. You have the victims family has -- were the first ones to ask for a speedy trial. Prosecution is on record as saying they want a speedy trial, now the government is. The problem is, no one is willing to take the steps that will really produce a speedy trial.
The government has not produced all the discovery to the defense, not produced all its evidence. The defense hasn't dropped lots of the motions that it's filed.
So, both sides say they want a speedy trial, but it looks like there isn't going to be a speedy trial because of the actions of the government and the defense have taken.
Summer is looking like the earliest this thing could really go to trial.
COLLINS: Really? I mean, these aren't new lawyer or beginning lawyers. Why aren't they getting these...
TOOBIN: Well because they care more about the legal maneuvering than they do about a speedy trial. The defense really wants these motions. They want -- they are the ones who are trying to get all the medical records of the accuser.
That all takes time and the defense wants to do its -- and the prosecution wants to do its tests on the evidence; that's why they haven't produced everything to the defense.
COLLINS: OK, let's talk about Rush Limbaugh now for a minute if we could. Of course his lawyers are saying that his medical records were obtained unfairly. Is this a good case?
TOOBIN: Well this is very -- the quirk of Florida law here. What happened was the government got a search warrant from the doctors for the doctor's office and got Rush Limbaugh's records. What Rush Limbaugh's lawyers are saying is no, they shouldn't have gotten a search warrant; they should have gotten a subpoena. That's how that is the appropriate -- is the appropriate procedure. What's interesting about this case is that it raises issues of medical privacy that are actually going on across the country.
COLLINS: Right, and other people should be listening in on this. They should...
TOOBIN: Well in the -- the federal government is trying to get the records of abortion providers in the partial birth abortion case where the late term abortion case; they're trying to get the records of women who had abortions. A lot of people are very upset about it. It's why the ACLU -- which is no ally of Rush Limbaugh under normal circumstances; they're on Rush Limbaugh's side in this case just like they are the women patient's in the abortion case because they want to limit the ability of the government, any government, to get access to these papers.
COLLINS: Quickly, before I let you go. If Limbaugh gets those medical records back, what happens to the prosecutions case?
TOOBIN: Over, he wins.
COLLINS: Over.
TOOBIN: So this is a very big case for him. If he wins this case there is really no way for the government to bring it because it's all based on his evidence?
COLLINS: Who'd have thought Rush Limbaugh and the ACLU, huh?
TOOBIN: Together at last.
COLLINS: All right, Jeffrey Toobin thanks so much for that -- Bill.
HEMMER: Heidi, 21 past the hour. Back to Fallujah in a moment here. Watching this videotape just in to us from CNN. We believe it's in and around that city.
We do know what's happening; have a pretty good idea of what's happening in Fallujah, we do not have firm updates today in towns like Ramadi where about a dozen marines were killed there yesterday. Back to Iraq in a moment here as we continue right after this.
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HEMMER: Again want to show you these pictures near Fallujah. We believe U.S. Marines now fighting it out for that city and Tony Perry embedded with the Marines from "The L.A. Times" with us a bit earlier today giving us the clear impression that the Iraqis are losing, he says, and losing big.
About 2500 Marines involved in that battle, about 1,000 Iraqi forces moving block by block in the town of Fallujah. We have a firm idea of what's happening there. We do not have a firm idea of what's happening in towns like Ramadi just to the west of there in Sadr City back in northeastern Baghdad.
So, as we continue to gather information out of Iraq today be patient with us as we go throughout the morning here. We're getting it as quickly as we can from that country today.
COLLINS: Incredible. Time now for the Cafferty Files. "Question of the Day" from Jack.
CAFFERTY: Thank you, Heidi. The situation in Iraq going from bad to worse these days. Troops suffering heavier causalities, the fighting going on in six cities, heaviest combat as Bill mentioned in Fallujah, also Ramadi.
Twelve Marines killed there yesterday. Meanwhile, American commanders say they're going to arrest this rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr, who continues to stir his followers to keep up the fight against the coalition.
This gutless little worm is hiding in a mosque in Najaf and the question whether they're going to go in and drag him out of there. All this as the June 30 deadline for the transfer of power approaches in Iraq. The top U.S. administrator Paul Bremer says that the schedule is on track, they will do the handover in Iraq on June 30.
The senator John Kerry among others is questioning the timetable for this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to be successful by pursuing a policy that makes sense, that brings all nations to the table to understand the stakes and I think this administration has yet to provide Americans with a thorough understanding of exactly who we are turning the authority over to in June, and precisely what the consequences of that will be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: So here's the question: is the June 30 deadlines realistic? The e-mail address is am@cnn.com.
COLLINS: All right.
HEMMER: Give it again, Ted. Do we have it? All right, we're getting indications right now -- sorry, Jack -- while you were talking -- that the first pictures coming in from Ramadi as Jack mentioned -- this is the area yesterday where about a dozen Marines were taken out. We don't have specifics on that, but now we do have videotape.
This in the town of Ramadi and again we caution you as we watch these pictures that we do not have a whole lot of information. Our best report came from Tony Perry of the "L.A. Times" a short time ago. He is in Fallujah to give you and idea in the Sunni triangle.
Ramadi is essentially the far western reaches of the Sunni triangle, about 25 miles west of Fallujah. Fallujah itself is 30 miles west of Baghdad. They are the hotspots yet again today. We'll get you there back in a moment live.
More on Jack's question also. Senator Carl Levin is our guest here at the half hour. Break here. Back in a moment.
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