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CNN Live Today
Coalition Authority News Conference in Baghdad; Large Explosion Heard in Central Baghdad
Aired April 09, 2004 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, HOST: Good morning everyone, from CNN headquarter in Atlanta. I'm Daryn Kagan. Let's take a look for the latest news at this hour.
Coalition forces battle to regain control of various Iraqi cities on this the one-year anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. U.S. efforts to retake Fallujah have been suspended but the fight against a militant cleric's insurgence continues in other cities. We'll have live reports in just a moment.
It looks like the public will get a chance to see portions of a classified document that was mentioned several times during Condoleezza Rice's appearance before the 9/11 Commission. It's a presidential daily brief, or a PDB that the president was given in August of 2001. The White House says the memo entitled "Is bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the U.S." It could be released as early as today.
Spanish authorities say they have reason to believe that terrorists are planning attacks to coincide with the Easter holiday. This after an ominous videotape was found in the rubble of an apartment, where suspected militants blew themselves up last week. Police say the recordings threaten further attacks, and that perhaps as many as three suspects may have escaped the raid.
The possibility of a terrorist attack is not lost on the Vatican. It is conducting Easter week observances under tight security. Pope John Paul, II kept up his tradition of hearing Good Friday confessions from ordinary Catholics. He plans to preside over two other holy day observances before the day ends.
Today marks the anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. Much of -- much has changed in the country in that time; it still remains a dangerous and unstable place.
Our Jim Clancy is monitoring events in Iraq from his post in Baghdad.
And Jim, I should also say we are standing by waiting for this news conference to happen from out of Baghdad. When it does, we will go to it live right away.
Meanwhile, you give us the latest from the Iraqi capital.
JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Certainly this one-year anniversary not being celebrated in a complete atmosphere of joy and sunlight, if you want to call it that. Because while Baghdad has been very calm today, there have been a couple of explosions. No reports of any damage or casualties elsewhere across the country. The security situation remains the real problem, not solved even after a year.
Let's look at Fallujah, first. That city of more than 300,000 people has undergone a lot of turmoil over the past six days, as U.S. Marines have been locked in combat with suspected Sunni insurgents. They're firing rocket-propelled grenades and assault rifles at them. About six hours, the U.S. military and the civilian administrator made an announcement of a unilateral cessation of hostility.
All right. I understand -- I thought we had our quote there from Mr. Bremer. Paul Bremer announcing that the U.S. Marines in Fallujah were going to unilaterally halt all offensive operations in the city. Not a cease-fire, not agreed by both sides, but it would allow both sides to sit down and talk. We should perhaps say all sides: the Iraqi Governing Council, local leaders there, perhaps even representatives of the armed insurgency inside Fallujah as well as the U.S. military. We were told some hours ago by a high U.S. level military source, they believe that talks were underway. There is no word of what has come from that.
Meantime, there has been other problems that have been addressed by the U.S. military in Iraq today. Across the country in southern Iraq, Kut, the subject of an -- a very concerted effort by the U.S. military to retake control from the so-called Mehdi army of Muqtada al Sadr, the rebellious, Shiia Muslim militant, who has been stirring up trouble across the south. His militia seizing police stations and government buildings, going after coalition headquarters in several cities. We understand Kut, there is still ongoing fighting now. Nasiriyah, there was ongoing fighting overnight. Najaf, still partially under the control of the al Mehdi militia, no U.S. military on the ground there at this hour as far as we know.
Back to you.
KAGAN: And Jim, just a little bit more about what is taking place in Kut. It seems to be the local leaders there not happy at all with the -- with al Sadr and his militia that seems to be taking over different communities. It seems that these are locals fighting back against that insurgency?
CLANCY: Daryn, and that goes to the core of what we've been trying to say for sometime about Muqtada al Sadr. While he stands up and his rhetoric, and his supporters say he speaks for Shiite Muslims in Iraq, the majority of people in this country, he does not. And a lot of the local leaders are especially concerned about his armed militia, because they are not disciplined, because they are gunmen, because they are enforcing their will on the local people.
You know, he set up his own courts and his own prisons. That doesn't go over with a lot of people in the south. His support is very narrow. A lot of it coming from here in Baghdad and Sadr City, they're being imported, brought down by busloads there to southern Iraq. That's not appreciated. He's facing the same problem in Najaf, where some of the locals there are said to be upset that he is using, what they term, human shields; women and children traveling around with his militia in cars to prevent local leaders, perhaps from disarming them -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Jim Clancy standing by in Baghdad and I know you will be listening into the same news conference that we are waiting for. It will be Dan Senor and Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, bringing us the latest of what's going on in Iraq. As soon as that begins out of Baghdad, you're going to see that live right here on CNN.
While we wait for that news conference to start, let's go ahead and bring in retired Air Force General George Harrison to talk about the military options, and especially the military challenges the U.S. faces right now in Iraq.
Good morning. Thanks for being with us.
GEN. GEORGE HARRISON (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Good morning. KAGAN: When we look at a map, and we do have this new map table that we set up, it looks like so many hot spots. I think for most Americans watching it, it's overwhelming about how many places seem to be flaring up out of control. How does the U.S. military step back and try to get control over these specific situations?
HARRISON: Well, I think that is the role of the generals and the people who are controlling the battle on the ground, to deploy their forces and to deploy strengths against the kinds of things that are going on. This is going to be a different kind of fighting than the initial battle for Baghdad last year.
KAGAN: And let's talk about the differences. This time last year, we were seeing -- and we have a lot symbolism here. We're seeing a lot of this, a lot of air power this time last year. We're not this time. Why is that? There seems to be more troops right on the ground doing the type of combat, door-to-door urban combat that the military seemed to want to avoid so much last year.
HARRISON: Sure. And the reason for that is that we're not facing an organized enemy. We're not facing troop formations, armored columns, all of those kinds of things. Our troops -- the coalition forces are facing a bunch of people who are disbursed, scattered, maybe operating in accordance with the central concept, but centrally not directly organized. So that means there's a lot of infantry, small unit actions.
The troops have to dismount, get out of their armor, go into houses, go into streets and put themselves in the kind of harm's way that we really would like to avoid. But air power really doesn't help you with that other than provide an overall umbrella if you really need something heavy in a hurry.
KAGAN: Sounds very dangerous. Also, the difficult in even knowing who the enemy is. When you have Sunnis and Shiites banning together to fight against the U.S. military, it's hard to know who the enemy and who the ally is. HARRISON: Well, that's right. And of course, these aren't uniform troops, uniform forces that we're facing. These are the kind of people who are wearing normal clothing, sometimes pilgrim clothing. And you have to be very cautious, very careful. You don't want to harm your cause -- the coalition cause by killing the wrong kinds of people, hurting the wrong kinds of people, or even terrifying the wrong kinds of.
KAGAN: Let's go back to the map. Some of the place that we've been looking at: Sadr City and Baghdad, you have Karbala, you have Najaf, we're talking about Kut. We just heard Jim Clancy talking about Kut as well. Of all these, which one concerns you the most?
HARRISON: Well, I think the Sunni Triangle is the place where the longest-term instability is going to take place. That's going to be the most difficult area. Of course, we're seeing a lot of Shiite activity. As we just heard, it's not clear that that's large scale or supported by the majority of the Shiite population.
KAGAN: And again, to go back to the map, we're talking Sunni Triangle here and we're talking Shiites...
HARRISON: Shiites primarily in the south but also in Sadr City?
KAGAN: ... in the south but also Sadr City...
HARRISON: That's right.
KAGAN: ... and Baghdad.
HARRISON: That's right. So al Sadr has generated a very effective but apparently small-scale insurgency. He has decided that he's not interested in supporting the coalition effort to establish a central Iraqi government for whatever reason. That's complicated, by the way, by the holiday that's coming up, which is...
KAGAN: Let's talk about that holiday. April 12.
HARRISON: That's right. That holiday celebrates the 40-day of the death of the grandson of the Prophet Mohammed, I believe in 1680 in the Christian Era.
KAGAN: And part of it is a lot of Muslim and wanting to go to some of these holy areas, like Najaf, like Karbala. And that means potentially hundreds of thousands of people, even millions of people on the move across Iraq?
HARRISON: That's right. Moving in large masses, all dressed in pilgrim garb -- traditional pilgrim garb and long white robes, those kinds of things. And it will be very easy for somebody who wants to cause trouble in this operation to insert somebody in there, suicide bombers, their kind of light infantry sorts of folks.
And apparently, one of the disturbing factors will this whole thing is that they're really not too concerned about whether or not they kill other Iraqis. Because if they kill Iraqis, they've demonstrated that the coalition can't control security. Can't provide security. So their willingness to kill their own people, their own countrymen, will really make this a tough problem.
KAGAN: There's also the challenge not just of Iraqis, but of people coming in from other countries. Iranians coming in because also want to get to these holy sites?
HARRISON: Certainly. And the militant Iranians, of course, have been a concern. Militant Syrians, for instance, may be well equipped. And there are a lot of weapons in Iraq. As the Iraqi army disappeared, faded away, they took their weapons with them. There was not an organized surrender so there are a lot of AK-47s, and rocket propelled grenades, small man portable air defense system, the heat seekers that we worried about. So there's a lot to be concerned about.
KAGAN: General, let's listen in together. I think we want to go live now to Baghdad. This is the news conference beginning. The Coalition Provisional Authority; there's Dan Senor on the right of your screen and Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. Let's listen in.
DANIEL SENOR, SR. ADVISER, COALITIONAL PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY: Good afternoon.
I just have a few short statements to read that Ambassador Bremer issued earlier today and then I will turn it over to General Kimmitt to brief and then will be happy to take your questions.
This morning Ambassador Bremer issued the following statement on the occasion of Arbayeen: "In light of the current unsettled security conditions in the south and especially in the holy city of Najaf, we and the coalition urge all parties to exercise great vigilance and caution during the upcoming commemoration of Arbayeen.
"Iraqis have been relieved of a dictator who, as a matter of policy, repressed their rights to practice their faith. Now individuals who seek to take power through mob violence and by blocking Iraq's democratic path are also making it unsafe for Iraqis to worship God.
"We are fighting to restore law and order so that all Iraqis can enjoy their new freedoms. I call on all Iraqis to cooperate with the legitimate security authorities to thwart those who seek to disrupt this holy commemoration.
"I know that many Iraqis and pilgrims from other countries are worried about whether they can perform their religious duty in peace and security, and some governments have urged their citizens not to go. Each individual must judge the issue for himself or herself with the counsel of their religious authorities. For our part, we and the Iraqi authorities will do all we can with limited capabilities to facilitate safety and security, but the pilgrims should make their individual judgments knowing that the dangers this year are very real."
Again, that was a statement issued by Ambassador Bremer earlier today.
SENOR: Secondly, Ambassador Bremer this morning met with the Iraqi ministerial committee on national security, during which they addressed a number of issues, not the least of which was the appointment of the new Iraqi interior minister and the appointment of Iraq's national security adviser.
Two individuals, following consultation with the Iraqi Governing Council, that Ambassador Bremer named were Mr. Samir Shakir Mahmud Sumaidy, who will be the new minister of interior, and Dr. Muwaffaq al-Rubaie as the new national security adviser. Both of their bios are available at the press center for those who are interested.
In the role of national security adviser, Dr. Rubaie will be the primary adviser to the head of the Iraqi government and the ministerial committee for national security on national security matters and shall manage and supervise the national security advisory staff.
Dr. Rubaie is tasked with providing balanced, impartial advice to the head of government and the ministerial committee on national security, along with facilitating coordination among the ministries and agencies charged with national security-related responsibilities.
As interior minister, Mr. Sumaidy will oversee the Iraqi domestic security forces, such as the Iraqi police service, Department of Border Enforcement and Facility Protection Service. Mr. Sumaidy has been involved in opposition to the former Baathist regime for many years. He's an international businessman and he is very well qualified for this position.
Finally, Ambassador Bremer issued a third statement today stating that today at 1200, coalition forces initiated a unilateral suspension of offensive operations in Fallujah in order to hold a meeting between members of the Iraqi Governing Council, Fallujah leadership, and leaders of the anti-coalition forces, to allow delivery of additional supplies provided by the Iraqi government and to allow residents of Fallujah to tend to wounded and dead.
During the suspension period, coalition forces retain the inherent right of self-defense and will remain fully prepared to resume offensive operations unless significant progress in these discussions occurs.
General Kimmitt?
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS, COMBINED JOINT TASK FORCE 7: Good evening.
What I'd like to try to do is give you an orientation on the situation here in Iraq by using this map and give you an idea, rather than go through slides one at a time, the current operational set.
KIMMITT: I think as everybody knows, we have six different divisional areas inside of Iraq. In the north, the area around Mosul, the situation is quite calm right now and everything seems to be quite stable.
In the north-central area, where we have the key towns of Tikrit, Kirkuk, Baquba, Samarra, there has been a slight uptick in the number of attacks in that area. We believe that that is some opportunity by some from former regime elements to take advantage of the current conditions in other parts of the country, but clearly 1st Infantry Division is conducting offensive operations in a field that -- overall, the risk in that area has not increased at all.
We of course have out in the west the Al Anbar Province with the key towns of Ar Ramadi and Fallujah.
As you know, at 1200 today, we announced a unilateral suspension of operations in Fallujah. As Mr. Senor said, the purpose of that unilateral suspension of operations is to give a political track an opportunity to attempt to reduce the violence. They are conducting those discussions at this time, and we'll let them work.
However, it is important to understand that the coalition remains firm; that should these discussions break down, the coalition military forces are prepared to go back on the offensive operations and at no time during the suspension of offensive operations do soldiers forfeit their inherent right of self-defense. If fired upon, they will fire back.
In the town of Ramadi it has been quite quiet today. In fact, last night we had one of the local sheiks come forward, gave us the name of 11 of the belligerents that had been fighting against us. We were able to capture all of those belligerents. They are currently under coalition custody.
In the south-central region between Baghdad and south is where the predominant of the Shia population live, and that has been where Sadr has been operating.
KIMMITT: Baghdad has been quite quiet in the last couple of days, with minor disturbances. We unfortunately have had some casualties, but in the key sectors such as Sadr City inside Baghdad, the coalition is in firm control and there is no challenge from Sadr and his people that is beyond the capability of the Iraqi security forces and the coalition forces to handle.
There have been a number of incidents today, but again, none that would affect the overall security of the town of Baghdad, the city of Baghdad.
All government buildings, all schools, all Iraqi police stations are in Iraqi hands and not being threatened by any of the Sadr militia.
In the south-central region that is under the direction of General Beenyak (ph) and multinational divisions, central-south, in the key towns of Karbala, Najaf, Diwaniyah, Al Kut -- I'll talk about each of those separately.
Al Diwaniyah is quite quiet at this time and stable. Karbala, we continue to have coalition presence and Iraqi security presence inside the city. There are some portions of the city where Sadr militia have been observed, but in the intent of allowing the observance of Arbayeen to continue, we are taking a very passive role.
That was always part of the plan for Arbayeen, that coalition forces would take an outside approach toward the situation so that the vast number of pilgrims, estimated to be approximately 1.2 million at this time, so they could conduct their observances with the Iraqi security forces and local authorities taking the lead.
The town of An Najaf, I think we all understand that the Sadr militia currently are the predominant force inside the city, but the coalition bases outside, ringing the city and on the edges of the city, are still remaining vigilant, maintaining force protection status, carefully watching the Arbayeen festivities, and to the extent possible, maintaining security in their area.
We'll talk about -- let's talk about Al Kut for a moment.
Let's go ahead and bring up the second slide. Next slide, please.
KIMMITT: Based on the attempt by the Sadr militia to take over elements and different organizations and key facilities inside the town of Al Kut, we directed additional forces to be moved from the Baghdad region very quickly down, first of all, to the town of An Najaf which is where we thought we were going to need them at first and then redirected them over toward the town of Al Kut.
As you can see from the time lines, a very agile force focused around 26 Infantry, roughly battalion size, approximately 1,000 armored personnel carriers, tanks, mechanized infantry vehicles and infantrymen moved from the city of Baghdad. They were alerted on the 4th.
The main body was moving that night; they arrived at An Najaf the next morning. They departed Baghdad that night, arrived at An Najaf the next day at 3:00. Two days later, on the 7th, they were alerted for movement from An Najaf at night. They moved from An Majaf and arrived at Al Kut at the 8th at 0900 and within 18 hours, initiated an attack into Al Kut.
Next slide, please.
This is the town of Al Kut, and this is the task force striker assault on Al Kut. As you can see from here, the CPA compound was the initial objective. That objective was taken quite quickly by the force. The three bridges over the town -- into the town were taken quickly.
We've moved our elements into the town of Al Kut. We destroyed the Sadr bureau through Air Force air. At this time, both 26 Infantry and elements of the light cavalry regiment, the 2nd Light Cavalry Regiment, are operating inside of Al Kut. They will continue operations tonight.
We would expect by this time tomorrow morning that we should have firm coalition control of all facilities, government facilities, Iraqi police stations, inside Al Kut. The characterization of the combat is such that, by and large, when coalition forces come in and attack, the Sadr forces shoot and scoot.
We've seen numerous instances of the people of Al Kut -- once they realize the Sadr militia is no longer in control, they're coming outside of their houses waving to the coalition forces, and we expect that the Al Kut operation should be done quite soon. Probably by tomorrow morning before we are able to make certain that all coalition facilities and all Iraqi government facilities are occupied, in this case, by coalition forces.
So we're fairly comfortable that the town of Al Kut is well on its way to coming back under coalition control.
KIMMITT: There have been very minor casualties on the part of the coalition, a couple of wounded personnel, and the mission continues.
Now, in the south, multinational division southeast commanded by the British reports that the entire area is quite quiet.
In the key towns of Al Basra, Al Amarah, As-Samawah, there has not been a lot of enemy activity throughout the day. There was some contentious issues over the past couple of days in the town of An Nasiriyah.
Next slide.
There was an ongoing operation between the Italian forces on the south side of the city and Sadr forces on the north side of the city. The Italian brigade, reinforced by their own elements, conducted operations this morning at 0001, moved across the bridges over the Euphrates, and currently their locations -- we have an Italian brigade armed squadron, an infantry company here, and we also have the CPA building here, which is currently under coalition control.
There still is some measure of Sadr militia resistance inside Nasiriyah, but the latest reports from the Italian brigade is that that resistance is minor and manageable.
Slides off, please.
So overall, the key hot spots inside of the country -- Fallujah, as you know, continues to be under a suspension of offensive operations.
The only other cities that have any measure of Sadr control remain An Najaf, partially Karbala. And we would expect that those special cities that are currently observing the Arbayeen festivities will continue to have some measure of Sadr control inside of them, although I would note that we are getting reports that there are some ongoing engagements between core Sadr militia elements, as well as some of the Badr Corps elements down there.
So at this point, our assessment is that the offensive operations are going well. We expect that we should be able to regain control over any government Iraqi facilities that have been occupied in the last couple of days by Sadr militia.
SENOR: And with that, we'll be happy to take your questions. QUESTION: I have two questions, one for each of you, if you don't mind. They're unrelated.
For Dan, I wanted to ask whether the appointments of Misters Sumaidy and Rubaie will require their resignation from the governing council before June 30th, and whether there's any conflict of interest or other issues posed by their serving simultaneously in both roles? Do you want to answer that first?
SENOR: Sure.
No Iraqi Governing Council member can serve as a cabinet minister, so they will have to give up their seats on the governing council in order to assume the position of minister, in the case of Sumaidy, and national security adviser in the case of Dr. Rubaie.
QUESTION: Has that already taken effect?
SENOR: It's a technical point. I don't know if there has been a formal resignation.
SENOR: But it will be in the next, you know, few days. They've got to work out the issues.
QUESTION: General Kimmitt, for you -- toward the end of your presentation, and thank you for the map explanation, you discussed ongoing operations involving both the Sadr militia and also the Badr organization. Could you tell us a little bit more specifically about that and whether other Shiite militias or other independent militias have had any activity against the coalition?
KIMMITT: Yes, those are the only engagements that we are aware of.
The Badr Corps is another one of the militias that is currently outlawed. But the Badr Corps, up to this point, has not taken the violence, has not grabbed the weapons.
But we are getting preliminary reports at this time that there may be some engagements between those two organizations.
QUESTION: Where?
KIMMITT: In Karbala. Excuse me. In An Najaf.
QUESTION: First for General Kimmitt.
There were reports that Sadr's convoy was cut off and he was prevented from returning to the Kufa mosque today. Is there any accuracy to those reports?
KIMMITT: I have seen those same news reports that you have. I can't confirm them.
QUESTION: And for Mr. Senor, two governing council members, Dr. Pachachi and another individual who my Western tongue cannot get around quite yet, were both on television criticizing the Fallujah offensive and saying that it was illegal and that it's a collective punishment. I'm curious if you could respond to that.
SENOR: I think everyone understands that we have a responsibility to address the situation that is hostile and address the situation in which four American contractors, four American civilian contractors were not only killed, but were mutilated and dragged through the streets; a situation in which five solders were recently killed there.
SENOR: This is not something that we can just turn our heads and look the other way. This is a situation we have to address head-on. And General Kimmitt has spoken to -- over the past few days, has spoken to the things -- the steps the coalition military has taken in order to address the situation.
However, Dr. Pachachi and other members of the governing council are aware of the steps we are taking right now with regard to suspending operations for an interim period of time here to allow the distribution of supplies into the area from the Iraqi government and, of course, to allow Iraqi political leaders to engage with Fallujah leaders here in the next little while.
KIMMITT: Yes, I want to correct what I said.
It was not in Najaf. It, in fact, was in Karbala. And I may have mischaracterized these being Badr Corps that were defending the mosque. But let me give you the report that we've been given.
We had a report earlier that Sadr's men are firing on a mosque, the Ali Al-Moussaui (ph) Mosque in Karbala. The imam is very concerned since he is expecting 6,000 to 8,000 pilgrims there in the next two days and, in his words, Sadr's actions are undermining the extensive security arrangements made inside that city for Arbayeen.
QUESTION: Both questions are for General Kimmitt.
Today we saw images of coalition troops, if you will, trying to take down pictures of al-Sadr in the very same square that a year ago today the statue of Saddam was pulled down. Are you, in effect, facing a new war? And, if not, how would you describe what's happening right now?
KAGAN: All right. We were listening in to a news conference taking place in Baghdad. You heard Dan Senor of the Coalition Provisional Authority, also Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt giving us an update on the military situation taking place in Iraq right now. The general giving a very specific breakdown of what is taking place, and the different battles, and the different challenging operations. Let's bring back in retired Air Force General George Harrison, to talk about and help understand some of the things that we've heard from Baghdad over the last few minutes.
No. 1, this holiday coming up on Sunday, Arba -- excuse me, Arbayeen. One of the big concerns, not just that this is a huge holiday and a holy day, but it's one where many Muslims feel they want to make a pilgrimage and go to cities such as Karbala, and such as Najaf. That means a lot of people on the move, a lot of people in places where they usually aren't and potential for problems.
HARRISON: Well, that's exactly right. And those are the two areas, if the map can come up. Those are the two areas, they're the areas in which a...
KAGAN: Let me just interrupt you right here, because we are going to get back to this. But once again, as people can see on our screen, we're getting reports from our own bureau -- our own CNN bureau within Baghdad that a large explosion has been heard within central Baghdad.
HARRISON: OK.
KAGAN: So of course, we'll be getting -- trying to get Jim Clancy up and get our people to get the latest on. While we're waiting to get the latest on that explosion heard in central Baghdad, once again back to the southern areas and how it might factor into the holy day of Arbayeen.
HARRISON: Well of course he said, General Kimmit said, the general said 1.2 million pilgrims. An incredible number of folks and, again, dressed in traditional religious garb, pilgrimage garb and tremendous opportunities to create mischief. I think the infiltrators who will use the pilgrimage as an excuse cover for their kinds of activities will be the problem.
KAGAN: We are getting pictures in live from Baghdad. Once again, word there has been a large explosion in central Baghdad.
We're getting these pictures in live and you are seeing them as we see them, exactly where the explosion took place and what exactly is happening, if there is any casualties, we're going to work on getting that information.
As long as we have it on Baghdad let's talk about a part of Baghdad that General Kimmitt was talking about and that is Sadr city. That was a huge concern. Right now the general is saying things are pretty quiet there?
HARRISON: I was encouraged to hear that he said that most of the problems in Baghdad are being handled by Iraqi security forces. That's clearly the ultimate solution. We don't want to have coalition forces, foreigners imposing security on Iraqis. So the extent that Iraqi security forces can be trained and deployed, that is far better solution.
KAGAN: Ultimately though the challenge is can the Iraqi forces be dependent on? What happened last weekend in Sadr city, when things got out of control they basically ran, they left their posts .
HARRISON: That is matter of training and leadership and that's going to be a long-term process but I think we're making considerable progress. The fact they were there to begin with and an officer corps and an NCO corp are being established and, it worked I think is encouraging. now, anybody who thinks the problem is solved really isn't thinking very much about it because it is a long-term process.
KAGAN: General, stand by. We've been hearing reports as explosion taking place in central Baghdad. Our Jim Clancy on the scene there. Jim, what can you tell us about what is taking place? Jim Clancy in Baghdad, Jim, are you with us?
JIM CLANCY, CNN CORESPONDENT: Yes. I'm sorry. I'm getting some information coming into me right now that gives us more indications. It was about three or four minutes ago that what sounded like a missile came screaming in here. It hit the Ishtar Sheraton hotel that is across the street from us here at the Palestine hotel, a hotel housing journalists and some of the contract workers that are here in Iraq.
CLANCY: We are technically not in the green zone. Still it's a position that is heavily defended. Today, there was increased security in anticipation of an attack of one kind or another that might come here. So just about four minutes ago we got our first real taste of trouble. Overall Baghdad reported to be quiet and not to say there haven't been rocket propelled grenade attacks.
There hasn't been some overall problems around the city overall it is relatively calm. Many people expected to see trouble as this is the anniversary of the toppling of that statue in the square right behind me paradise square in Baghdad where the giant statue was brought down. Symbolicaly at least Saddam Hussein's rule ended. A missile came in here. Rather unusual for that to be done in broad daylight as it's only a few minutes past 6:00 right now. Back to you.
KAGAN: Jim, could you actually hear the explosion take place?
CLANCY: Yes, I would say I could more than hear it.
It was a deafening explosion from where we were sitting about a hundred yards away from the impact point. Again, it sounded like a missile coming in just from the way that the blast affected spread here across to our hotel and where we were sitting listening to the CPA press briefing. Not unexpected. We have no reports of any casualties or damage right now. Clearly from what we saw was a cloud of dust and smoke it looked like it impacted some where in the floors of the hotel perhaps from one of the overhangs that juts out on the hotel and might have fallen where it jets out from the hotel. We'll have to get back to you about the specific type of armament that it was and the main concern is are there any injuries.
KAGAN: One thing is clear that you did hear the sound of a large explosion and that the target was the Ishtar Sheraton hotel. We're getting into the early evening hours of Baghdad. I would imagine more people would be in that hotel. Tell us more about the type of people that stay at that establishment, Jim.
CLANCY: Well, there is a lot of journalists that are there and I think it hit there about on the sixth floor or so that there are a lot of journalists there with news organizations. There are also some contractors that are working with the civilian coalition provisional authority that are housed in the hotel and heavy security around it, concrete blast walls and tanks parked out front. None of that can prevent something coming in through the air and that's what happened here. To say we heard it, it fairly rocked our world here when it went off, no doubt about that. Daryn.
KAGAN: We're watching pictures from outside the hotel. I have to say the activity that we see, it seems rather a calm reaction and not a big flurry of activity.
CLANCY: Well like we say Daryn, we think we expected it. I think everybody has been more or less waiting today. They were surprised when we didn't hear anything overnight. The surprise about this is that it's broad daylight here in Baghdad and that is not a usual time when insurgence might carry out these kinds of attacks. No telling how far away that might have been fired from.
We say it sounded like a missile. I don't think it was a mortar by any stretch of the imagination but we'll have to wait and see. That hotel has been hit in the past and so it's one of the many targets around Baghdad. There have been some rocket propelled grenade attacks around the city, but, overall, Baghdad on this anniversary of the one year toppling of Saddam Hussein has been relatively calm. Daryn?.
KAGAN: All right Jim, we're going to let you not go far and gather a little bit more information and while you stand by there in Baghdad, we will be back with you in a minute and keep these pictures up. Let's bring back the retired Air Force General George Harrison. Jim Clancy making the description of what he felt was like a missile just in terms of what he heard in terms of the sound and the sound leading up to the explosion. also the kind of access that insurgence would have to get up to that hotel.
HARRISON: Well, that is kind of bothersome. We won't know until there is more characterization of what it is. It could be a variety of things. It could have been a 122 mm rocket that was possessed by the Hussein forces.
KAGAN: And plenty of those available and still out there in Iraq?
HARRISON: Sure.
KAGAN: This hotel not in the green zone. Lets talk about the green zone what is the green zone and what does it mean to be inside or outside of it within Baghdad?
HARRISON: It's more intense security obviously within the green zone. That's for the CPA authorities, for the U.S. officials and coalition officials so they have a very heavily guarded and secured area. You can't provide that kind of security throughout the entire town, city of Baghdad so being outside the green zone means you're more at risk. However as Jim just said, the activity level has been low so I think folks have been felt fairly secure outside of the green zone.
KAGAN: Once a gain this is the one year anniversary of the fall of Baghdad and Jim Clancy talking allot about that the symbolism and the potential aspects that that might bring with it. What about-Jim mentioned the location of this hotel around the square where the famous of statue of Saddam Hussein came toppling down. And before it did there was that moment I think looked different in the U.S. and that was the U.S. flag being draped over the face of Saddam Hussein.
HARRISON: I think that was probably an expression of national pride by the young Marine who did that and I think it was probably a mistake. He probably knows that now because this is not a U.S. operation to conquer a country and that's just the wrong impression to give.
KAGAN: Interesting. Here it is a year later that last year the statue of Saddam Hussein coming down. This year, today, we saw pictures of Muqtada al Sadr, the Shiite cleric who is holed up in Najaf and seeing pictures of him being torn down in that square. a different type of enemy today.
HARRISON: Yes it was because the Saddam Hussein regime was a Sunni regime and this is a Shiite activity and I think there is a lot of Shiite concern they will not have a dominant role in the politics after waiting so many years for this to happen.
KAGAN: Once again if you are just joining us we are following a breaking story a breaking story out of Baghdad. Explosion heard and hit the Ishtar Sheraton hotel in central Baghdad. We will be back with Jim Clancy on the scene in a minute. Right now, early speculation on the scene perhaps it was a missile fired into about the 6th floor of this hotel, a hotel not in the green zone and hotel that tends to house a lot of journalists and private contractors working within Baghdad.
Once again to the symbolism it's interesting. This battle being fought on two fronts. You have the military. You have the nuts and bolts and we talk about troops and you talk about equipment and air power but there is also is the hearts and minds and the symbolism and when you get into things like talking toppling down statues and taking down pictures of Shiite clerics.
HARRISON: I think that is important. The symbolism of what is going on is far more clearly an the military action. We have diverse interests in the Iraqi population you have to be sensitive to their interests. I think the CPA is worried about it and a push to move the governing of Iraq to Iraqis so it's not a foreign-imposed situation.
KAGAN: And lets talk about a military aspect of that we heard this just a moment ago you heard the Brigadier General Mark Kimmit talking about this. The unilateral suspension of operations in Falujah today. Unusual to see the ultimate military saying we're going to hang back. We deserve the right to defend ourselves but we're going to stop. Talk about that tactic .
HARRISON: I think it was an important thing to do because it says we respect the importance of the upcoming holiday and we respect the need of the Iraqi people, not the insurgence but the Iraqi people to care for their people and get supplies. I imagine food and water will be coming an issue within these towns. So we're moving back and the intent of doing that is clearly to maintain our support in the larger populous to let people understand this is not a coalition imposed set of violence. It's an insurgence or imposed al-sadr set of violence.
KAGAN: And finally we get back to the breaking the story, the live pictures you're seeing on the screen the Ishtar Sheraton hotel in central Baghdad hit. We report at this time by a missile windows reported being shattered. General we heard Jim Clancy talk about the significance of this day, the one-year anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. He said he and many journalists anticipating even more action overnight. How does the U.S. military stand by and get ready for that?
HARRISON: I think they provide a lot of presence. The night belongs to the U.S. military. We can operate at night far better than anybody else can and I think there will be a lot of presence and movement and they will be sweeping a broad area so that long-range things just don't have an ability to move in and do damage.
KAGAN: General George Harrison, thank you for your expertise. Were not going to let you go far it looks like there will be things to watch in Baghdad.
KAGAN: As we are saying this is the one-year anniversary of the falling of Baghdad. A day when people all around the world watched pictures of the statue of Saddam Hussein toppling over in that square in central Baghdad very close to the story we're following right now with the explosion at the Sheraton hotel. Were not going to leave that story while we wait to get more information from Baghdad, let's take a look back at what happened one year ago today. Here is CNN's Stephen Frazier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHEN FRAZIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the streets of Baghdad, rumbling tanks. Jubilant crowds, celebration. Liberation. And chaos.
CHRISTIANE AMMANPOUR CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was an extraordinary sight for one who had covered Iraq in the past, to see the center of the city teaming with American tanks and marines.
FRAZIER: So far, so fast, it wasn't supposed to be this way. The battle for Baghdad was expected to be the big one. By April 9th, however, U.S. tanks and armor were in the center of the Iraqi capital taking charge and already running out of targets. In the end, one image told the entire story. Saddam's rule was all but over. The noose had tightened literally and figuratively. but even this poignant moment was open to interpretation. One simple gesture exposed the thin line between liberation and the fears of occupation.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Many Arabs and Muslims, I would argue, were happy to see the turning over, yet, they were not convinced. because, on Arab television stations, a man wrapping an American flag around Saddam Hussein's face.
FRAZIER: The symbolism was not lost on the Pentagon either.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: There was sort of an oh, no moment. oh, no, that's not the picture that we want to send. On the other hand, nobody was really too up yet about it and that's what Marines do.
FRAZIER: While there was jubilation in some quarters of Baghdad, there was open war fare even anarchy in others.
There was a certain euphoria that was contagious and that was passing from the people in the streets to the Marines on their vehicles and then we came around one corner. gunfire and suddenly sideways off to our left, there were several explosions. and those were rpg rounds or missiles. then gunfire.
FRAZIER: Just blocks away from the dancing square, the first battalion 7th Marines were engaged in a blistering fire fight at Baghdad University.
It was just so odd to hear all the while in my earpiece, people cheering, people celebrating and yet I thought where we were at that moment, we stood a very good chance of dying amidst all of that joy
FRAZIER: In the early hours of the new Iraq, Baghdad was a city of extremes. euphoria and fire fights. Life and death.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: The one-year anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. That was our Stephen Frazier. We are following a breaking story right now out of Baghdad. Our Jim Clancy is standing by with more with the latest of the explosion heard at the Sheraton hotel there Jim what's some new information please?
CLANCY: Well the latest we have right now is they're still trying to pin do you down what was the exact location of impact. Its believed to be a 120 millimeter mortar. That is a big mortar about as big as they come. In fact, I think it is as big as they come and it made a deafening crash when it impacted here about a hundred yards or where I'm standing right now. Shaking this building shaking the whole area.
No word if there were any casualties caused by this. We're still trying to check on that. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time, believe it or not, before you find out because perhaps a casualty if there was one, somebody is going to be rushing them off for medical assistance and by the time anybody arrives, no one knows about it. Was it unanticipated, a big surprise? Not really.
This is the area where symbolically Iraqis and the U.S. military brought down that statue of Saddam Hussein and all along people have known this would probably be a target for the insurgence who want to prove the point that the U.S. one year later is not in charge in Iraq they are still a force to be reckoned with. Punctuation, if you will, is what we have just heard here in the last few minutes coming from their side. Fortunately for now, we don't have any reports of any casualties.
KAGAN: We're going to put up a map that you can't see but an area you know well. When we came to you earlier you talked about this hotel outside the green zone. Right now we have a map of the green zone and of central Baghdad. If you talk about where the hotel is in reference to this and the significance of the green zone, please.
HARRISON: that depends on which way you're holding the map Daryn . It's pretty hard for me to describe it to you. It would be over on your right-hand side.
KAGAN: To help you here, we have the republican palace in the lower right hand part of the screen if that helps you.
CLANCY: It's going to be up above that. But it's going to be then perhaps if that is the lower right corner, it's going to be off the map. It is off to the east of that. Along the river.
KAGAN: Talk about the significance of the green zone and how safe it is to be within the green zone versus outside of the green zone, the difference in security.
CLANCY: Well you know I think it's important to say this. That a lot of the missiles that the mortars that are fired against, the green zone, it is a huge expansive target where the coalition authorities set up I said headquarters for the U.S. embassy. Thousands of staff members work every day.
It is regularly targeted in these kind of attacks and surprisingly, there have been very few casualties as a result of it. Largely it is a result of the fact they have no capability of firing these devices from stable platforms, having a lot of time to aim them or they do not have the military know-how in order to put them properly on a target.
More or less the best way to describe this is they point it in a general direction. Now this mortar round may or may not have been aimed at this location near our hotel. It may have been aimed someplace else and it just up here. That has been the nature in the past of some of these attacks although I must say that these two hotels, the Sheraton Ishtar and the Palestine hotel have come into attacks several times in the past from the insurgence trying to prove a point.
The journalists are here and if you do it, you're going to get a lot of news coverage and we're going to be talking about it here on television and the insurgence believe that is sending out their message there is instability in Baghdad, that the U.S. military does not have control of Iraq. That's the message they want to send and this is the way they send it.
KAGAN: Jim, stay with us. We have also retired Air Force General George Harrison you heard Jim say this was a 120-millimeter mortar. How big is that what's the delivery system on that?
HARRISON: 120 millimeter mortar is about 6 inches in diameter it's a large missile and carries a large explosive and I imagine as the war head comes in bound, it is an object flying in and it would look and sound like a missile and you can hear mortar fire when it comes in. You can hear it before it hits impact so several pounds of explosive. Enough to really do some damage and certainly enough to inflict a fair amount of terror.
KAGAN: How is it delivered?
HARRISON: Fired from a tube that is elevated in angle and azimuth the direction and the elevation which gives you an impact point. If it's a good mortar man, he can put those things in accurately. However as Jim said if they can't measure the distance or a stable place to establish their elevation and azimuth , they can't be very accurate.
KAGAN: Sometimes it's just being lucky so to speak?
HARRISON; That's right.
KAGAN: Here they got a good shot and hit the Sheraton hotel. We are putting up a Keyhole map right now to give you a better idea of the central part of the city. The green zone and not the green zone and where the statue of Saddam statue was and the Ishtar hotel and of course the Palestine hotel being at the top of the map here. Important to keep in mind Baghdad is a huge metropolis. We tend to focus on the green zone but five million people live in this city.
HARRISON: That's right. It's like focusing on a particular part of Washington, D.C. it's enormous all the way from Dulles airport and Baghdad International to the center of town so huge amount of distance and huge amount of territory and area to be patrolled and secured.
KAGAN: General, stay with us. On the phone is Brigadier General Mark Hertling with us. General are you with us from Baghdad?
GENERAL MARK HERTLING, DEP. COMMANDER 1ST AMORED DIVISION : Yes I am.
KAGAN: Can you tell us the latest about what has taken place with the Sheraton hotel?
HERTLING: I'm not sure. I just was at the division headquarters and came back from Kut. There has been several incidents that occurred today. I'm not sure. I talked to Jane Arraf a minute ago and heard there was an explosion down by the Sheraton Palestine complex but I'm not sure what that was. It could be a mortar, it could be a rocket propelled grenade. We have seen a few rocket propelled grenades throughout the day and within that city street down there, any type of explosion will echo and rebound off the wall. I'm not sure what it was. we did not pick up anything on our radar so it may not have been anything like a rocket or missile.
KAGAN: O. K. general that's fine you don't have the exact information on that story. We will continue to follow that. While we have you on the phone less' talk about the situation in al Kut. A very interesting situation because what you're seeing the local people doing and fighting against al-Sadr's militia. They will us tell us what is taking place in al Kut please.
HERTLING: Several days, we sent as general Kimmit said a few minutes ago on the update. We sent a task force down in Najaf and they were actioned over to the activity in al Kut two nights ago. They arrived there and set up with along with one of our brigade command posts and they were joined by one Cavalry squadron and another one joining them today out of the second light division .
What we saw last night was some limited action on the part of the Army personnel. We think there are between 300 and 400 of madi (ph) army in the town. That is a town of about a quarter million people. So you can see it's a really small percentage they are intimidating the people of the town and taking up arms and weapons and doing exactly the kinds of things that the new representative government is trying to prevent.
So last night, there was some action. I don't believe that madi (ph) army elements there would believe it got there as fast as it did. Our forces were traveling all night getting down there and attacking that army elements that were controlling parts of the town. Several fights last night and we were victorious in each one of them. That fighting will continue on tonight they have a couple objectives . I talked to both the commander and some of the new elements he has joining him as the fight continues. They are fairly confident that they are going to regain control of several of the buildings and positions that were taken by madi (ph) (ph) armies
KAGAN: General not to take away from the efforts and the -- efforts of the U.S. military and the success of the U.S. military. How important is the tool you have of the general population in Kut and the local leaders saying enough. They don't want medi (ph) army and militia in their city and they don't want al-sadr. how important is that?
HERTLING: That is critical importance. This is really a fight of a small group of extremists against a larger moderate population that's trying to regain their ability to get on with life. But the small group of extremists attempting to intimidate with weapons. It gets down to a fight between individuals that want to proceed with ideas versus individuals that want to continue to intimidate with guns and we're helping, we hope we're helping the local government stand up.
There has been, obviously, you're dealing with police and Iraqi civil defense corps that's dealt with 35 years of trauma under Saddam Hussein and they are used to intimidation and we are trying to break that pattern and help them stand up against these individuals who would use weapons instead of ideas to try and win people over to their side. So that is a long answer to your question. The real question is its critical we get the people of the town on our side as we continue to prosecute this campaign against these extremists.
KAGAN: I want to ask you about Najaf in a minute. Yesterday, the taking of a number of civilian hostages of a number of different nationalities. Are there any reports today of additional hostages being taken?
HERTLING: There are some rumors today and that's all they are right now. They have not been confirmed. Not in Najaf, but other locations. I'd prefer not to comment because we don't have any factual data right now.
KAGAN: O.K. I can appreciate that. What about the hostages taken yesterday. Is there any update on their stat?
HERTLING: Really don't know. I apologize. I can't comment because that's really not in the purview of the 1st armored division that's not in our area of operations so I don't have the most recent facts on that. And anything I'm saying right now would be conjecture.
KAGAN: General, I appreciate that. You're on the ground and you're there so I have to take the opportunity to ask the question but I understand and I appreciate your honesty if you don't have the exact information to pass on. Let's move to the southwest, from Kut to Najaf. This is a situation much more frustrating what is taking place in Kut because that is where we understand that is where Muqtada al- Sadr is holed up. What about regaining control of that city?
HERTLING: Yes, I'm sorry. You're coming in very broken but I think I heard you say that held up in Najaf after and that's correct. it's difficult right now because we are in the final days of the festival of Arbein (ph) and there are many who haven't been able to celebrate that over the last 30 years. We are trying to provide a tempered action in terms of that because there are many peace loving Shias going through the holy shrines in those cities. So we're taking our time and weighing our options right now in some of the cities that have the shrines but in al Kut and in Sadr city, we're continuing to have offensive operations against the medi(ph) army .
KAGAN: General, thank you for your time and for the latest information. Once again, we're following the breaking story out of Baghdad and explosion at the Ishtar Sheraton hotel on this the one year anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. A quick break right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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DARYN KAGAN, HOST: Good morning everyone, from CNN headquarter in Atlanta. I'm Daryn Kagan. Let's take a look for the latest news at this hour.
Coalition forces battle to regain control of various Iraqi cities on this the one-year anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. U.S. efforts to retake Fallujah have been suspended but the fight against a militant cleric's insurgence continues in other cities. We'll have live reports in just a moment.
It looks like the public will get a chance to see portions of a classified document that was mentioned several times during Condoleezza Rice's appearance before the 9/11 Commission. It's a presidential daily brief, or a PDB that the president was given in August of 2001. The White House says the memo entitled "Is bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the U.S." It could be released as early as today.
Spanish authorities say they have reason to believe that terrorists are planning attacks to coincide with the Easter holiday. This after an ominous videotape was found in the rubble of an apartment, where suspected militants blew themselves up last week. Police say the recordings threaten further attacks, and that perhaps as many as three suspects may have escaped the raid.
The possibility of a terrorist attack is not lost on the Vatican. It is conducting Easter week observances under tight security. Pope John Paul, II kept up his tradition of hearing Good Friday confessions from ordinary Catholics. He plans to preside over two other holy day observances before the day ends.
Today marks the anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. Much of -- much has changed in the country in that time; it still remains a dangerous and unstable place.
Our Jim Clancy is monitoring events in Iraq from his post in Baghdad.
And Jim, I should also say we are standing by waiting for this news conference to happen from out of Baghdad. When it does, we will go to it live right away.
Meanwhile, you give us the latest from the Iraqi capital.
JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Certainly this one-year anniversary not being celebrated in a complete atmosphere of joy and sunlight, if you want to call it that. Because while Baghdad has been very calm today, there have been a couple of explosions. No reports of any damage or casualties elsewhere across the country. The security situation remains the real problem, not solved even after a year.
Let's look at Fallujah, first. That city of more than 300,000 people has undergone a lot of turmoil over the past six days, as U.S. Marines have been locked in combat with suspected Sunni insurgents. They're firing rocket-propelled grenades and assault rifles at them. About six hours, the U.S. military and the civilian administrator made an announcement of a unilateral cessation of hostility.
All right. I understand -- I thought we had our quote there from Mr. Bremer. Paul Bremer announcing that the U.S. Marines in Fallujah were going to unilaterally halt all offensive operations in the city. Not a cease-fire, not agreed by both sides, but it would allow both sides to sit down and talk. We should perhaps say all sides: the Iraqi Governing Council, local leaders there, perhaps even representatives of the armed insurgency inside Fallujah as well as the U.S. military. We were told some hours ago by a high U.S. level military source, they believe that talks were underway. There is no word of what has come from that.
Meantime, there has been other problems that have been addressed by the U.S. military in Iraq today. Across the country in southern Iraq, Kut, the subject of an -- a very concerted effort by the U.S. military to retake control from the so-called Mehdi army of Muqtada al Sadr, the rebellious, Shiia Muslim militant, who has been stirring up trouble across the south. His militia seizing police stations and government buildings, going after coalition headquarters in several cities. We understand Kut, there is still ongoing fighting now. Nasiriyah, there was ongoing fighting overnight. Najaf, still partially under the control of the al Mehdi militia, no U.S. military on the ground there at this hour as far as we know.
Back to you.
KAGAN: And Jim, just a little bit more about what is taking place in Kut. It seems to be the local leaders there not happy at all with the -- with al Sadr and his militia that seems to be taking over different communities. It seems that these are locals fighting back against that insurgency?
CLANCY: Daryn, and that goes to the core of what we've been trying to say for sometime about Muqtada al Sadr. While he stands up and his rhetoric, and his supporters say he speaks for Shiite Muslims in Iraq, the majority of people in this country, he does not. And a lot of the local leaders are especially concerned about his armed militia, because they are not disciplined, because they are gunmen, because they are enforcing their will on the local people.
You know, he set up his own courts and his own prisons. That doesn't go over with a lot of people in the south. His support is very narrow. A lot of it coming from here in Baghdad and Sadr City, they're being imported, brought down by busloads there to southern Iraq. That's not appreciated. He's facing the same problem in Najaf, where some of the locals there are said to be upset that he is using, what they term, human shields; women and children traveling around with his militia in cars to prevent local leaders, perhaps from disarming them -- Daryn.
KAGAN: Jim Clancy standing by in Baghdad and I know you will be listening into the same news conference that we are waiting for. It will be Dan Senor and Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, bringing us the latest of what's going on in Iraq. As soon as that begins out of Baghdad, you're going to see that live right here on CNN.
While we wait for that news conference to start, let's go ahead and bring in retired Air Force General George Harrison to talk about the military options, and especially the military challenges the U.S. faces right now in Iraq.
Good morning. Thanks for being with us.
GEN. GEORGE HARRISON (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Good morning. KAGAN: When we look at a map, and we do have this new map table that we set up, it looks like so many hot spots. I think for most Americans watching it, it's overwhelming about how many places seem to be flaring up out of control. How does the U.S. military step back and try to get control over these specific situations?
HARRISON: Well, I think that is the role of the generals and the people who are controlling the battle on the ground, to deploy their forces and to deploy strengths against the kinds of things that are going on. This is going to be a different kind of fighting than the initial battle for Baghdad last year.
KAGAN: And let's talk about the differences. This time last year, we were seeing -- and we have a lot symbolism here. We're seeing a lot of this, a lot of air power this time last year. We're not this time. Why is that? There seems to be more troops right on the ground doing the type of combat, door-to-door urban combat that the military seemed to want to avoid so much last year.
HARRISON: Sure. And the reason for that is that we're not facing an organized enemy. We're not facing troop formations, armored columns, all of those kinds of things. Our troops -- the coalition forces are facing a bunch of people who are disbursed, scattered, maybe operating in accordance with the central concept, but centrally not directly organized. So that means there's a lot of infantry, small unit actions.
The troops have to dismount, get out of their armor, go into houses, go into streets and put themselves in the kind of harm's way that we really would like to avoid. But air power really doesn't help you with that other than provide an overall umbrella if you really need something heavy in a hurry.
KAGAN: Sounds very dangerous. Also, the difficult in even knowing who the enemy is. When you have Sunnis and Shiites banning together to fight against the U.S. military, it's hard to know who the enemy and who the ally is. HARRISON: Well, that's right. And of course, these aren't uniform troops, uniform forces that we're facing. These are the kind of people who are wearing normal clothing, sometimes pilgrim clothing. And you have to be very cautious, very careful. You don't want to harm your cause -- the coalition cause by killing the wrong kinds of people, hurting the wrong kinds of people, or even terrifying the wrong kinds of.
KAGAN: Let's go back to the map. Some of the place that we've been looking at: Sadr City and Baghdad, you have Karbala, you have Najaf, we're talking about Kut. We just heard Jim Clancy talking about Kut as well. Of all these, which one concerns you the most?
HARRISON: Well, I think the Sunni Triangle is the place where the longest-term instability is going to take place. That's going to be the most difficult area. Of course, we're seeing a lot of Shiite activity. As we just heard, it's not clear that that's large scale or supported by the majority of the Shiite population.
KAGAN: And again, to go back to the map, we're talking Sunni Triangle here and we're talking Shiites...
HARRISON: Shiites primarily in the south but also in Sadr City?
KAGAN: ... in the south but also Sadr City...
HARRISON: That's right.
KAGAN: ... and Baghdad.
HARRISON: That's right. So al Sadr has generated a very effective but apparently small-scale insurgency. He has decided that he's not interested in supporting the coalition effort to establish a central Iraqi government for whatever reason. That's complicated, by the way, by the holiday that's coming up, which is...
KAGAN: Let's talk about that holiday. April 12.
HARRISON: That's right. That holiday celebrates the 40-day of the death of the grandson of the Prophet Mohammed, I believe in 1680 in the Christian Era.
KAGAN: And part of it is a lot of Muslim and wanting to go to some of these holy areas, like Najaf, like Karbala. And that means potentially hundreds of thousands of people, even millions of people on the move across Iraq?
HARRISON: That's right. Moving in large masses, all dressed in pilgrim garb -- traditional pilgrim garb and long white robes, those kinds of things. And it will be very easy for somebody who wants to cause trouble in this operation to insert somebody in there, suicide bombers, their kind of light infantry sorts of folks.
And apparently, one of the disturbing factors will this whole thing is that they're really not too concerned about whether or not they kill other Iraqis. Because if they kill Iraqis, they've demonstrated that the coalition can't control security. Can't provide security. So their willingness to kill their own people, their own countrymen, will really make this a tough problem.
KAGAN: There's also the challenge not just of Iraqis, but of people coming in from other countries. Iranians coming in because also want to get to these holy sites?
HARRISON: Certainly. And the militant Iranians, of course, have been a concern. Militant Syrians, for instance, may be well equipped. And there are a lot of weapons in Iraq. As the Iraqi army disappeared, faded away, they took their weapons with them. There was not an organized surrender so there are a lot of AK-47s, and rocket propelled grenades, small man portable air defense system, the heat seekers that we worried about. So there's a lot to be concerned about.
KAGAN: General, let's listen in together. I think we want to go live now to Baghdad. This is the news conference beginning. The Coalition Provisional Authority; there's Dan Senor on the right of your screen and Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt. Let's listen in.
DANIEL SENOR, SR. ADVISER, COALITIONAL PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY: Good afternoon.
I just have a few short statements to read that Ambassador Bremer issued earlier today and then I will turn it over to General Kimmitt to brief and then will be happy to take your questions.
This morning Ambassador Bremer issued the following statement on the occasion of Arbayeen: "In light of the current unsettled security conditions in the south and especially in the holy city of Najaf, we and the coalition urge all parties to exercise great vigilance and caution during the upcoming commemoration of Arbayeen.
"Iraqis have been relieved of a dictator who, as a matter of policy, repressed their rights to practice their faith. Now individuals who seek to take power through mob violence and by blocking Iraq's democratic path are also making it unsafe for Iraqis to worship God.
"We are fighting to restore law and order so that all Iraqis can enjoy their new freedoms. I call on all Iraqis to cooperate with the legitimate security authorities to thwart those who seek to disrupt this holy commemoration.
"I know that many Iraqis and pilgrims from other countries are worried about whether they can perform their religious duty in peace and security, and some governments have urged their citizens not to go. Each individual must judge the issue for himself or herself with the counsel of their religious authorities. For our part, we and the Iraqi authorities will do all we can with limited capabilities to facilitate safety and security, but the pilgrims should make their individual judgments knowing that the dangers this year are very real."
Again, that was a statement issued by Ambassador Bremer earlier today.
SENOR: Secondly, Ambassador Bremer this morning met with the Iraqi ministerial committee on national security, during which they addressed a number of issues, not the least of which was the appointment of the new Iraqi interior minister and the appointment of Iraq's national security adviser.
Two individuals, following consultation with the Iraqi Governing Council, that Ambassador Bremer named were Mr. Samir Shakir Mahmud Sumaidy, who will be the new minister of interior, and Dr. Muwaffaq al-Rubaie as the new national security adviser. Both of their bios are available at the press center for those who are interested.
In the role of national security adviser, Dr. Rubaie will be the primary adviser to the head of the Iraqi government and the ministerial committee for national security on national security matters and shall manage and supervise the national security advisory staff.
Dr. Rubaie is tasked with providing balanced, impartial advice to the head of government and the ministerial committee on national security, along with facilitating coordination among the ministries and agencies charged with national security-related responsibilities.
As interior minister, Mr. Sumaidy will oversee the Iraqi domestic security forces, such as the Iraqi police service, Department of Border Enforcement and Facility Protection Service. Mr. Sumaidy has been involved in opposition to the former Baathist regime for many years. He's an international businessman and he is very well qualified for this position.
Finally, Ambassador Bremer issued a third statement today stating that today at 1200, coalition forces initiated a unilateral suspension of offensive operations in Fallujah in order to hold a meeting between members of the Iraqi Governing Council, Fallujah leadership, and leaders of the anti-coalition forces, to allow delivery of additional supplies provided by the Iraqi government and to allow residents of Fallujah to tend to wounded and dead.
During the suspension period, coalition forces retain the inherent right of self-defense and will remain fully prepared to resume offensive operations unless significant progress in these discussions occurs.
General Kimmitt?
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS, COMBINED JOINT TASK FORCE 7: Good evening.
What I'd like to try to do is give you an orientation on the situation here in Iraq by using this map and give you an idea, rather than go through slides one at a time, the current operational set.
KIMMITT: I think as everybody knows, we have six different divisional areas inside of Iraq. In the north, the area around Mosul, the situation is quite calm right now and everything seems to be quite stable.
In the north-central area, where we have the key towns of Tikrit, Kirkuk, Baquba, Samarra, there has been a slight uptick in the number of attacks in that area. We believe that that is some opportunity by some from former regime elements to take advantage of the current conditions in other parts of the country, but clearly 1st Infantry Division is conducting offensive operations in a field that -- overall, the risk in that area has not increased at all.
We of course have out in the west the Al Anbar Province with the key towns of Ar Ramadi and Fallujah.
As you know, at 1200 today, we announced a unilateral suspension of operations in Fallujah. As Mr. Senor said, the purpose of that unilateral suspension of operations is to give a political track an opportunity to attempt to reduce the violence. They are conducting those discussions at this time, and we'll let them work.
However, it is important to understand that the coalition remains firm; that should these discussions break down, the coalition military forces are prepared to go back on the offensive operations and at no time during the suspension of offensive operations do soldiers forfeit their inherent right of self-defense. If fired upon, they will fire back.
In the town of Ramadi it has been quite quiet today. In fact, last night we had one of the local sheiks come forward, gave us the name of 11 of the belligerents that had been fighting against us. We were able to capture all of those belligerents. They are currently under coalition custody.
In the south-central region between Baghdad and south is where the predominant of the Shia population live, and that has been where Sadr has been operating.
KIMMITT: Baghdad has been quite quiet in the last couple of days, with minor disturbances. We unfortunately have had some casualties, but in the key sectors such as Sadr City inside Baghdad, the coalition is in firm control and there is no challenge from Sadr and his people that is beyond the capability of the Iraqi security forces and the coalition forces to handle.
There have been a number of incidents today, but again, none that would affect the overall security of the town of Baghdad, the city of Baghdad.
All government buildings, all schools, all Iraqi police stations are in Iraqi hands and not being threatened by any of the Sadr militia.
In the south-central region that is under the direction of General Beenyak (ph) and multinational divisions, central-south, in the key towns of Karbala, Najaf, Diwaniyah, Al Kut -- I'll talk about each of those separately.
Al Diwaniyah is quite quiet at this time and stable. Karbala, we continue to have coalition presence and Iraqi security presence inside the city. There are some portions of the city where Sadr militia have been observed, but in the intent of allowing the observance of Arbayeen to continue, we are taking a very passive role.
That was always part of the plan for Arbayeen, that coalition forces would take an outside approach toward the situation so that the vast number of pilgrims, estimated to be approximately 1.2 million at this time, so they could conduct their observances with the Iraqi security forces and local authorities taking the lead.
The town of An Najaf, I think we all understand that the Sadr militia currently are the predominant force inside the city, but the coalition bases outside, ringing the city and on the edges of the city, are still remaining vigilant, maintaining force protection status, carefully watching the Arbayeen festivities, and to the extent possible, maintaining security in their area.
We'll talk about -- let's talk about Al Kut for a moment.
Let's go ahead and bring up the second slide. Next slide, please.
KIMMITT: Based on the attempt by the Sadr militia to take over elements and different organizations and key facilities inside the town of Al Kut, we directed additional forces to be moved from the Baghdad region very quickly down, first of all, to the town of An Najaf which is where we thought we were going to need them at first and then redirected them over toward the town of Al Kut.
As you can see from the time lines, a very agile force focused around 26 Infantry, roughly battalion size, approximately 1,000 armored personnel carriers, tanks, mechanized infantry vehicles and infantrymen moved from the city of Baghdad. They were alerted on the 4th.
The main body was moving that night; they arrived at An Najaf the next morning. They departed Baghdad that night, arrived at An Najaf the next day at 3:00. Two days later, on the 7th, they were alerted for movement from An Najaf at night. They moved from An Majaf and arrived at Al Kut at the 8th at 0900 and within 18 hours, initiated an attack into Al Kut.
Next slide, please.
This is the town of Al Kut, and this is the task force striker assault on Al Kut. As you can see from here, the CPA compound was the initial objective. That objective was taken quite quickly by the force. The three bridges over the town -- into the town were taken quickly.
We've moved our elements into the town of Al Kut. We destroyed the Sadr bureau through Air Force air. At this time, both 26 Infantry and elements of the light cavalry regiment, the 2nd Light Cavalry Regiment, are operating inside of Al Kut. They will continue operations tonight.
We would expect by this time tomorrow morning that we should have firm coalition control of all facilities, government facilities, Iraqi police stations, inside Al Kut. The characterization of the combat is such that, by and large, when coalition forces come in and attack, the Sadr forces shoot and scoot.
We've seen numerous instances of the people of Al Kut -- once they realize the Sadr militia is no longer in control, they're coming outside of their houses waving to the coalition forces, and we expect that the Al Kut operation should be done quite soon. Probably by tomorrow morning before we are able to make certain that all coalition facilities and all Iraqi government facilities are occupied, in this case, by coalition forces.
So we're fairly comfortable that the town of Al Kut is well on its way to coming back under coalition control.
KIMMITT: There have been very minor casualties on the part of the coalition, a couple of wounded personnel, and the mission continues.
Now, in the south, multinational division southeast commanded by the British reports that the entire area is quite quiet.
In the key towns of Al Basra, Al Amarah, As-Samawah, there has not been a lot of enemy activity throughout the day. There was some contentious issues over the past couple of days in the town of An Nasiriyah.
Next slide.
There was an ongoing operation between the Italian forces on the south side of the city and Sadr forces on the north side of the city. The Italian brigade, reinforced by their own elements, conducted operations this morning at 0001, moved across the bridges over the Euphrates, and currently their locations -- we have an Italian brigade armed squadron, an infantry company here, and we also have the CPA building here, which is currently under coalition control.
There still is some measure of Sadr militia resistance inside Nasiriyah, but the latest reports from the Italian brigade is that that resistance is minor and manageable.
Slides off, please.
So overall, the key hot spots inside of the country -- Fallujah, as you know, continues to be under a suspension of offensive operations.
The only other cities that have any measure of Sadr control remain An Najaf, partially Karbala. And we would expect that those special cities that are currently observing the Arbayeen festivities will continue to have some measure of Sadr control inside of them, although I would note that we are getting reports that there are some ongoing engagements between core Sadr militia elements, as well as some of the Badr Corps elements down there.
So at this point, our assessment is that the offensive operations are going well. We expect that we should be able to regain control over any government Iraqi facilities that have been occupied in the last couple of days by Sadr militia.
SENOR: And with that, we'll be happy to take your questions. QUESTION: I have two questions, one for each of you, if you don't mind. They're unrelated.
For Dan, I wanted to ask whether the appointments of Misters Sumaidy and Rubaie will require their resignation from the governing council before June 30th, and whether there's any conflict of interest or other issues posed by their serving simultaneously in both roles? Do you want to answer that first?
SENOR: Sure.
No Iraqi Governing Council member can serve as a cabinet minister, so they will have to give up their seats on the governing council in order to assume the position of minister, in the case of Sumaidy, and national security adviser in the case of Dr. Rubaie.
QUESTION: Has that already taken effect?
SENOR: It's a technical point. I don't know if there has been a formal resignation.
SENOR: But it will be in the next, you know, few days. They've got to work out the issues.
QUESTION: General Kimmitt, for you -- toward the end of your presentation, and thank you for the map explanation, you discussed ongoing operations involving both the Sadr militia and also the Badr organization. Could you tell us a little bit more specifically about that and whether other Shiite militias or other independent militias have had any activity against the coalition?
KIMMITT: Yes, those are the only engagements that we are aware of.
The Badr Corps is another one of the militias that is currently outlawed. But the Badr Corps, up to this point, has not taken the violence, has not grabbed the weapons.
But we are getting preliminary reports at this time that there may be some engagements between those two organizations.
QUESTION: Where?
KIMMITT: In Karbala. Excuse me. In An Najaf.
QUESTION: First for General Kimmitt.
There were reports that Sadr's convoy was cut off and he was prevented from returning to the Kufa mosque today. Is there any accuracy to those reports?
KIMMITT: I have seen those same news reports that you have. I can't confirm them.
QUESTION: And for Mr. Senor, two governing council members, Dr. Pachachi and another individual who my Western tongue cannot get around quite yet, were both on television criticizing the Fallujah offensive and saying that it was illegal and that it's a collective punishment. I'm curious if you could respond to that.
SENOR: I think everyone understands that we have a responsibility to address the situation that is hostile and address the situation in which four American contractors, four American civilian contractors were not only killed, but were mutilated and dragged through the streets; a situation in which five solders were recently killed there.
SENOR: This is not something that we can just turn our heads and look the other way. This is a situation we have to address head-on. And General Kimmitt has spoken to -- over the past few days, has spoken to the things -- the steps the coalition military has taken in order to address the situation.
However, Dr. Pachachi and other members of the governing council are aware of the steps we are taking right now with regard to suspending operations for an interim period of time here to allow the distribution of supplies into the area from the Iraqi government and, of course, to allow Iraqi political leaders to engage with Fallujah leaders here in the next little while.
KIMMITT: Yes, I want to correct what I said.
It was not in Najaf. It, in fact, was in Karbala. And I may have mischaracterized these being Badr Corps that were defending the mosque. But let me give you the report that we've been given.
We had a report earlier that Sadr's men are firing on a mosque, the Ali Al-Moussaui (ph) Mosque in Karbala. The imam is very concerned since he is expecting 6,000 to 8,000 pilgrims there in the next two days and, in his words, Sadr's actions are undermining the extensive security arrangements made inside that city for Arbayeen.
QUESTION: Both questions are for General Kimmitt.
Today we saw images of coalition troops, if you will, trying to take down pictures of al-Sadr in the very same square that a year ago today the statue of Saddam was pulled down. Are you, in effect, facing a new war? And, if not, how would you describe what's happening right now?
KAGAN: All right. We were listening in to a news conference taking place in Baghdad. You heard Dan Senor of the Coalition Provisional Authority, also Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt giving us an update on the military situation taking place in Iraq right now. The general giving a very specific breakdown of what is taking place, and the different battles, and the different challenging operations. Let's bring back in retired Air Force General George Harrison, to talk about and help understand some of the things that we've heard from Baghdad over the last few minutes.
No. 1, this holiday coming up on Sunday, Arba -- excuse me, Arbayeen. One of the big concerns, not just that this is a huge holiday and a holy day, but it's one where many Muslims feel they want to make a pilgrimage and go to cities such as Karbala, and such as Najaf. That means a lot of people on the move, a lot of people in places where they usually aren't and potential for problems.
HARRISON: Well, that's exactly right. And those are the two areas, if the map can come up. Those are the two areas, they're the areas in which a...
KAGAN: Let me just interrupt you right here, because we are going to get back to this. But once again, as people can see on our screen, we're getting reports from our own bureau -- our own CNN bureau within Baghdad that a large explosion has been heard within central Baghdad.
HARRISON: OK.
KAGAN: So of course, we'll be getting -- trying to get Jim Clancy up and get our people to get the latest on. While we're waiting to get the latest on that explosion heard in central Baghdad, once again back to the southern areas and how it might factor into the holy day of Arbayeen.
HARRISON: Well of course he said, General Kimmit said, the general said 1.2 million pilgrims. An incredible number of folks and, again, dressed in traditional religious garb, pilgrimage garb and tremendous opportunities to create mischief. I think the infiltrators who will use the pilgrimage as an excuse cover for their kinds of activities will be the problem.
KAGAN: We are getting pictures in live from Baghdad. Once again, word there has been a large explosion in central Baghdad.
We're getting these pictures in live and you are seeing them as we see them, exactly where the explosion took place and what exactly is happening, if there is any casualties, we're going to work on getting that information.
As long as we have it on Baghdad let's talk about a part of Baghdad that General Kimmitt was talking about and that is Sadr city. That was a huge concern. Right now the general is saying things are pretty quiet there?
HARRISON: I was encouraged to hear that he said that most of the problems in Baghdad are being handled by Iraqi security forces. That's clearly the ultimate solution. We don't want to have coalition forces, foreigners imposing security on Iraqis. So the extent that Iraqi security forces can be trained and deployed, that is far better solution.
KAGAN: Ultimately though the challenge is can the Iraqi forces be dependent on? What happened last weekend in Sadr city, when things got out of control they basically ran, they left their posts .
HARRISON: That is matter of training and leadership and that's going to be a long-term process but I think we're making considerable progress. The fact they were there to begin with and an officer corps and an NCO corp are being established and, it worked I think is encouraging. now, anybody who thinks the problem is solved really isn't thinking very much about it because it is a long-term process.
KAGAN: General, stand by. We've been hearing reports as explosion taking place in central Baghdad. Our Jim Clancy on the scene there. Jim, what can you tell us about what is taking place? Jim Clancy in Baghdad, Jim, are you with us?
JIM CLANCY, CNN CORESPONDENT: Yes. I'm sorry. I'm getting some information coming into me right now that gives us more indications. It was about three or four minutes ago that what sounded like a missile came screaming in here. It hit the Ishtar Sheraton hotel that is across the street from us here at the Palestine hotel, a hotel housing journalists and some of the contract workers that are here in Iraq.
CLANCY: We are technically not in the green zone. Still it's a position that is heavily defended. Today, there was increased security in anticipation of an attack of one kind or another that might come here. So just about four minutes ago we got our first real taste of trouble. Overall Baghdad reported to be quiet and not to say there haven't been rocket propelled grenade attacks.
There hasn't been some overall problems around the city overall it is relatively calm. Many people expected to see trouble as this is the anniversary of the toppling of that statue in the square right behind me paradise square in Baghdad where the giant statue was brought down. Symbolicaly at least Saddam Hussein's rule ended. A missile came in here. Rather unusual for that to be done in broad daylight as it's only a few minutes past 6:00 right now. Back to you.
KAGAN: Jim, could you actually hear the explosion take place?
CLANCY: Yes, I would say I could more than hear it.
It was a deafening explosion from where we were sitting about a hundred yards away from the impact point. Again, it sounded like a missile coming in just from the way that the blast affected spread here across to our hotel and where we were sitting listening to the CPA press briefing. Not unexpected. We have no reports of any casualties or damage right now. Clearly from what we saw was a cloud of dust and smoke it looked like it impacted some where in the floors of the hotel perhaps from one of the overhangs that juts out on the hotel and might have fallen where it jets out from the hotel. We'll have to get back to you about the specific type of armament that it was and the main concern is are there any injuries.
KAGAN: One thing is clear that you did hear the sound of a large explosion and that the target was the Ishtar Sheraton hotel. We're getting into the early evening hours of Baghdad. I would imagine more people would be in that hotel. Tell us more about the type of people that stay at that establishment, Jim.
CLANCY: Well, there is a lot of journalists that are there and I think it hit there about on the sixth floor or so that there are a lot of journalists there with news organizations. There are also some contractors that are working with the civilian coalition provisional authority that are housed in the hotel and heavy security around it, concrete blast walls and tanks parked out front. None of that can prevent something coming in through the air and that's what happened here. To say we heard it, it fairly rocked our world here when it went off, no doubt about that. Daryn.
KAGAN: We're watching pictures from outside the hotel. I have to say the activity that we see, it seems rather a calm reaction and not a big flurry of activity.
CLANCY: Well like we say Daryn, we think we expected it. I think everybody has been more or less waiting today. They were surprised when we didn't hear anything overnight. The surprise about this is that it's broad daylight here in Baghdad and that is not a usual time when insurgence might carry out these kinds of attacks. No telling how far away that might have been fired from.
We say it sounded like a missile. I don't think it was a mortar by any stretch of the imagination but we'll have to wait and see. That hotel has been hit in the past and so it's one of the many targets around Baghdad. There have been some rocket propelled grenade attacks around the city, but, overall, Baghdad on this anniversary of the one year toppling of Saddam Hussein has been relatively calm. Daryn?.
KAGAN: All right Jim, we're going to let you not go far and gather a little bit more information and while you stand by there in Baghdad, we will be back with you in a minute and keep these pictures up. Let's bring back the retired Air Force General George Harrison. Jim Clancy making the description of what he felt was like a missile just in terms of what he heard in terms of the sound and the sound leading up to the explosion. also the kind of access that insurgence would have to get up to that hotel.
HARRISON: Well, that is kind of bothersome. We won't know until there is more characterization of what it is. It could be a variety of things. It could have been a 122 mm rocket that was possessed by the Hussein forces.
KAGAN: And plenty of those available and still out there in Iraq?
HARRISON: Sure.
KAGAN: This hotel not in the green zone. Lets talk about the green zone what is the green zone and what does it mean to be inside or outside of it within Baghdad?
HARRISON: It's more intense security obviously within the green zone. That's for the CPA authorities, for the U.S. officials and coalition officials so they have a very heavily guarded and secured area. You can't provide that kind of security throughout the entire town, city of Baghdad so being outside the green zone means you're more at risk. However as Jim just said, the activity level has been low so I think folks have been felt fairly secure outside of the green zone.
KAGAN: Once a gain this is the one year anniversary of the fall of Baghdad and Jim Clancy talking allot about that the symbolism and the potential aspects that that might bring with it. What about-Jim mentioned the location of this hotel around the square where the famous of statue of Saddam Hussein came toppling down. And before it did there was that moment I think looked different in the U.S. and that was the U.S. flag being draped over the face of Saddam Hussein.
HARRISON: I think that was probably an expression of national pride by the young Marine who did that and I think it was probably a mistake. He probably knows that now because this is not a U.S. operation to conquer a country and that's just the wrong impression to give.
KAGAN: Interesting. Here it is a year later that last year the statue of Saddam Hussein coming down. This year, today, we saw pictures of Muqtada al Sadr, the Shiite cleric who is holed up in Najaf and seeing pictures of him being torn down in that square. a different type of enemy today.
HARRISON: Yes it was because the Saddam Hussein regime was a Sunni regime and this is a Shiite activity and I think there is a lot of Shiite concern they will not have a dominant role in the politics after waiting so many years for this to happen.
KAGAN: Once again if you are just joining us we are following a breaking story a breaking story out of Baghdad. Explosion heard and hit the Ishtar Sheraton hotel in central Baghdad. We will be back with Jim Clancy on the scene in a minute. Right now, early speculation on the scene perhaps it was a missile fired into about the 6th floor of this hotel, a hotel not in the green zone and hotel that tends to house a lot of journalists and private contractors working within Baghdad.
Once again to the symbolism it's interesting. This battle being fought on two fronts. You have the military. You have the nuts and bolts and we talk about troops and you talk about equipment and air power but there is also is the hearts and minds and the symbolism and when you get into things like talking toppling down statues and taking down pictures of Shiite clerics.
HARRISON: I think that is important. The symbolism of what is going on is far more clearly an the military action. We have diverse interests in the Iraqi population you have to be sensitive to their interests. I think the CPA is worried about it and a push to move the governing of Iraq to Iraqis so it's not a foreign-imposed situation.
KAGAN: And lets talk about a military aspect of that we heard this just a moment ago you heard the Brigadier General Mark Kimmit talking about this. The unilateral suspension of operations in Falujah today. Unusual to see the ultimate military saying we're going to hang back. We deserve the right to defend ourselves but we're going to stop. Talk about that tactic .
HARRISON: I think it was an important thing to do because it says we respect the importance of the upcoming holiday and we respect the need of the Iraqi people, not the insurgence but the Iraqi people to care for their people and get supplies. I imagine food and water will be coming an issue within these towns. So we're moving back and the intent of doing that is clearly to maintain our support in the larger populous to let people understand this is not a coalition imposed set of violence. It's an insurgence or imposed al-sadr set of violence.
KAGAN: And finally we get back to the breaking the story, the live pictures you're seeing on the screen the Ishtar Sheraton hotel in central Baghdad hit. We report at this time by a missile windows reported being shattered. General we heard Jim Clancy talk about the significance of this day, the one-year anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. He said he and many journalists anticipating even more action overnight. How does the U.S. military stand by and get ready for that?
HARRISON: I think they provide a lot of presence. The night belongs to the U.S. military. We can operate at night far better than anybody else can and I think there will be a lot of presence and movement and they will be sweeping a broad area so that long-range things just don't have an ability to move in and do damage.
KAGAN: General George Harrison, thank you for your expertise. Were not going to let you go far it looks like there will be things to watch in Baghdad.
KAGAN: As we are saying this is the one-year anniversary of the falling of Baghdad. A day when people all around the world watched pictures of the statue of Saddam Hussein toppling over in that square in central Baghdad very close to the story we're following right now with the explosion at the Sheraton hotel. Were not going to leave that story while we wait to get more information from Baghdad, let's take a look back at what happened one year ago today. Here is CNN's Stephen Frazier.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHEN FRAZIER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the streets of Baghdad, rumbling tanks. Jubilant crowds, celebration. Liberation. And chaos.
CHRISTIANE AMMANPOUR CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was an extraordinary sight for one who had covered Iraq in the past, to see the center of the city teaming with American tanks and marines.
FRAZIER: So far, so fast, it wasn't supposed to be this way. The battle for Baghdad was expected to be the big one. By April 9th, however, U.S. tanks and armor were in the center of the Iraqi capital taking charge and already running out of targets. In the end, one image told the entire story. Saddam's rule was all but over. The noose had tightened literally and figuratively. but even this poignant moment was open to interpretation. One simple gesture exposed the thin line between liberation and the fears of occupation.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Many Arabs and Muslims, I would argue, were happy to see the turning over, yet, they were not convinced. because, on Arab television stations, a man wrapping an American flag around Saddam Hussein's face.
FRAZIER: The symbolism was not lost on the Pentagon either.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: There was sort of an oh, no moment. oh, no, that's not the picture that we want to send. On the other hand, nobody was really too up yet about it and that's what Marines do.
FRAZIER: While there was jubilation in some quarters of Baghdad, there was open war fare even anarchy in others.
There was a certain euphoria that was contagious and that was passing from the people in the streets to the Marines on their vehicles and then we came around one corner. gunfire and suddenly sideways off to our left, there were several explosions. and those were rpg rounds or missiles. then gunfire.
FRAZIER: Just blocks away from the dancing square, the first battalion 7th Marines were engaged in a blistering fire fight at Baghdad University.
It was just so odd to hear all the while in my earpiece, people cheering, people celebrating and yet I thought where we were at that moment, we stood a very good chance of dying amidst all of that joy
FRAZIER: In the early hours of the new Iraq, Baghdad was a city of extremes. euphoria and fire fights. Life and death.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KAGAN: The one-year anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. That was our Stephen Frazier. We are following a breaking story right now out of Baghdad. Our Jim Clancy is standing by with more with the latest of the explosion heard at the Sheraton hotel there Jim what's some new information please?
CLANCY: Well the latest we have right now is they're still trying to pin do you down what was the exact location of impact. Its believed to be a 120 millimeter mortar. That is a big mortar about as big as they come. In fact, I think it is as big as they come and it made a deafening crash when it impacted here about a hundred yards or where I'm standing right now. Shaking this building shaking the whole area.
No word if there were any casualties caused by this. We're still trying to check on that. Sometimes it takes a little bit of time, believe it or not, before you find out because perhaps a casualty if there was one, somebody is going to be rushing them off for medical assistance and by the time anybody arrives, no one knows about it. Was it unanticipated, a big surprise? Not really.
This is the area where symbolically Iraqis and the U.S. military brought down that statue of Saddam Hussein and all along people have known this would probably be a target for the insurgence who want to prove the point that the U.S. one year later is not in charge in Iraq they are still a force to be reckoned with. Punctuation, if you will, is what we have just heard here in the last few minutes coming from their side. Fortunately for now, we don't have any reports of any casualties.
KAGAN: We're going to put up a map that you can't see but an area you know well. When we came to you earlier you talked about this hotel outside the green zone. Right now we have a map of the green zone and of central Baghdad. If you talk about where the hotel is in reference to this and the significance of the green zone, please.
HARRISON: that depends on which way you're holding the map Daryn . It's pretty hard for me to describe it to you. It would be over on your right-hand side.
KAGAN: To help you here, we have the republican palace in the lower right hand part of the screen if that helps you.
CLANCY: It's going to be up above that. But it's going to be then perhaps if that is the lower right corner, it's going to be off the map. It is off to the east of that. Along the river.
KAGAN: Talk about the significance of the green zone and how safe it is to be within the green zone versus outside of the green zone, the difference in security.
CLANCY: Well you know I think it's important to say this. That a lot of the missiles that the mortars that are fired against, the green zone, it is a huge expansive target where the coalition authorities set up I said headquarters for the U.S. embassy. Thousands of staff members work every day.
It is regularly targeted in these kind of attacks and surprisingly, there have been very few casualties as a result of it. Largely it is a result of the fact they have no capability of firing these devices from stable platforms, having a lot of time to aim them or they do not have the military know-how in order to put them properly on a target.
More or less the best way to describe this is they point it in a general direction. Now this mortar round may or may not have been aimed at this location near our hotel. It may have been aimed someplace else and it just up here. That has been the nature in the past of some of these attacks although I must say that these two hotels, the Sheraton Ishtar and the Palestine hotel have come into attacks several times in the past from the insurgence trying to prove a point.
The journalists are here and if you do it, you're going to get a lot of news coverage and we're going to be talking about it here on television and the insurgence believe that is sending out their message there is instability in Baghdad, that the U.S. military does not have control of Iraq. That's the message they want to send and this is the way they send it.
KAGAN: Jim, stay with us. We have also retired Air Force General George Harrison you heard Jim say this was a 120-millimeter mortar. How big is that what's the delivery system on that?
HARRISON: 120 millimeter mortar is about 6 inches in diameter it's a large missile and carries a large explosive and I imagine as the war head comes in bound, it is an object flying in and it would look and sound like a missile and you can hear mortar fire when it comes in. You can hear it before it hits impact so several pounds of explosive. Enough to really do some damage and certainly enough to inflict a fair amount of terror.
KAGAN: How is it delivered?
HARRISON: Fired from a tube that is elevated in angle and azimuth the direction and the elevation which gives you an impact point. If it's a good mortar man, he can put those things in accurately. However as Jim said if they can't measure the distance or a stable place to establish their elevation and azimuth , they can't be very accurate.
KAGAN: Sometimes it's just being lucky so to speak?
HARRISON; That's right.
KAGAN: Here they got a good shot and hit the Sheraton hotel. We are putting up a Keyhole map right now to give you a better idea of the central part of the city. The green zone and not the green zone and where the statue of Saddam statue was and the Ishtar hotel and of course the Palestine hotel being at the top of the map here. Important to keep in mind Baghdad is a huge metropolis. We tend to focus on the green zone but five million people live in this city.
HARRISON: That's right. It's like focusing on a particular part of Washington, D.C. it's enormous all the way from Dulles airport and Baghdad International to the center of town so huge amount of distance and huge amount of territory and area to be patrolled and secured.
KAGAN: General, stay with us. On the phone is Brigadier General Mark Hertling with us. General are you with us from Baghdad?
GENERAL MARK HERTLING, DEP. COMMANDER 1ST AMORED DIVISION : Yes I am.
KAGAN: Can you tell us the latest about what has taken place with the Sheraton hotel?
HERTLING: I'm not sure. I just was at the division headquarters and came back from Kut. There has been several incidents that occurred today. I'm not sure. I talked to Jane Arraf a minute ago and heard there was an explosion down by the Sheraton Palestine complex but I'm not sure what that was. It could be a mortar, it could be a rocket propelled grenade. We have seen a few rocket propelled grenades throughout the day and within that city street down there, any type of explosion will echo and rebound off the wall. I'm not sure what it was. we did not pick up anything on our radar so it may not have been anything like a rocket or missile.
KAGAN: O. K. general that's fine you don't have the exact information on that story. We will continue to follow that. While we have you on the phone less' talk about the situation in al Kut. A very interesting situation because what you're seeing the local people doing and fighting against al-Sadr's militia. They will us tell us what is taking place in al Kut please.
HERTLING: Several days, we sent as general Kimmit said a few minutes ago on the update. We sent a task force down in Najaf and they were actioned over to the activity in al Kut two nights ago. They arrived there and set up with along with one of our brigade command posts and they were joined by one Cavalry squadron and another one joining them today out of the second light division .
What we saw last night was some limited action on the part of the Army personnel. We think there are between 300 and 400 of madi (ph) army in the town. That is a town of about a quarter million people. So you can see it's a really small percentage they are intimidating the people of the town and taking up arms and weapons and doing exactly the kinds of things that the new representative government is trying to prevent.
So last night, there was some action. I don't believe that madi (ph) army elements there would believe it got there as fast as it did. Our forces were traveling all night getting down there and attacking that army elements that were controlling parts of the town. Several fights last night and we were victorious in each one of them. That fighting will continue on tonight they have a couple objectives . I talked to both the commander and some of the new elements he has joining him as the fight continues. They are fairly confident that they are going to regain control of several of the buildings and positions that were taken by madi (ph) (ph) armies
KAGAN: General not to take away from the efforts and the -- efforts of the U.S. military and the success of the U.S. military. How important is the tool you have of the general population in Kut and the local leaders saying enough. They don't want medi (ph) army and militia in their city and they don't want al-sadr. how important is that?
HERTLING: That is critical importance. This is really a fight of a small group of extremists against a larger moderate population that's trying to regain their ability to get on with life. But the small group of extremists attempting to intimidate with weapons. It gets down to a fight between individuals that want to proceed with ideas versus individuals that want to continue to intimidate with guns and we're helping, we hope we're helping the local government stand up.
There has been, obviously, you're dealing with police and Iraqi civil defense corps that's dealt with 35 years of trauma under Saddam Hussein and they are used to intimidation and we are trying to break that pattern and help them stand up against these individuals who would use weapons instead of ideas to try and win people over to their side. So that is a long answer to your question. The real question is its critical we get the people of the town on our side as we continue to prosecute this campaign against these extremists.
KAGAN: I want to ask you about Najaf in a minute. Yesterday, the taking of a number of civilian hostages of a number of different nationalities. Are there any reports today of additional hostages being taken?
HERTLING: There are some rumors today and that's all they are right now. They have not been confirmed. Not in Najaf, but other locations. I'd prefer not to comment because we don't have any factual data right now.
KAGAN: O.K. I can appreciate that. What about the hostages taken yesterday. Is there any update on their stat?
HERTLING: Really don't know. I apologize. I can't comment because that's really not in the purview of the 1st armored division that's not in our area of operations so I don't have the most recent facts on that. And anything I'm saying right now would be conjecture.
KAGAN: General, I appreciate that. You're on the ground and you're there so I have to take the opportunity to ask the question but I understand and I appreciate your honesty if you don't have the exact information to pass on. Let's move to the southwest, from Kut to Najaf. This is a situation much more frustrating what is taking place in Kut because that is where we understand that is where Muqtada al- Sadr is holed up. What about regaining control of that city?
HERTLING: Yes, I'm sorry. You're coming in very broken but I think I heard you say that held up in Najaf after and that's correct. it's difficult right now because we are in the final days of the festival of Arbein (ph) and there are many who haven't been able to celebrate that over the last 30 years. We are trying to provide a tempered action in terms of that because there are many peace loving Shias going through the holy shrines in those cities. So we're taking our time and weighing our options right now in some of the cities that have the shrines but in al Kut and in Sadr city, we're continuing to have offensive operations against the medi(ph) army .
KAGAN: General, thank you for your time and for the latest information. Once again, we're following the breaking story out of Baghdad and explosion at the Ishtar Sheraton hotel on this the one year anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. A quick break right now.
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