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CNN Live Sunday

How Do Iraqis Obtain RPGs, Missiles?; Rescue Efforts Continue In Mexican Town

Aired April 12, 2004 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SUNDAY: Here are the latest developments at this hour. The Arab television network Al-Jazeera reports a kidnapper say they will release eight men taken hostage in Iraq, two Turfs, three Pakistanis, a Nepalese, a Philippine and an Indian were accused by their captors of driving trucks for the U.S. led coalition.
A U.S. army Apache helicopter like the one you're about to see was shot down today west of Baghdad. U.S. officials say the copter was hit by a surface-to-air missile fired by insurgents. The two pilots aboard were killed.

In the Besieged City rocky city of Fallujah, cease-fire remains in place between coalition troops and Iraqi insurgents. During the pause in fighting, talks are expected to bring calm to the city. Violence in Fallujah has raged for nearly a week now.

President Bush is speaking out about the recent up tick in violence in Iraq after attending and Easter services at Ft. Hood in Texas today. The president says it has been, "it's been a tough week in Iraq." He went on to say violence will not stop Iraq's progress toward democracy.

Many Iraqi police are not looking forward to the June 30th handover of power from the U.S. Many say their fellow officers are unnecessarily being killed or injured, and they feel Washington hasn't acted quickly enough. Here's CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The major fasom (ph) is under pressure, caught between twin loyalist, to the Iraqis, and to the U.S. lead occupation or CPA, a difficult balancing act.

BASAM (ph): The Americans want to build American democracy in Iraqi that would be a big mistake. They have to build Iraqi democracy in Iraq.

ROBERTSON: Basam is angry, colleagues have been killed and injured for lack of proper gear while the U.S. military police or MP's have everything they need. He takes me to visit an injured colleague, wounded as he tried to defuse a roadside bomb without a protective flight vest.

BASAM: After that incident, the MP's and CPA they distribute hundreds of vests.

ROBERTSON: After?

BASAM: After that, because yes, I took them to the hospital to see the colleague who lost his arm.

ROBERTSON: He isn't bitter, just wiser.

BASAM: They have priorities. Priority for themselves, then the IPS, and then the citizens.

ROBERTSON: But coalition headquarters were allowed a rare behind the scenes glimpse at the scramble to recruit and equip IPS.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police and civilian security structure, which is what's really going to make or break our deal here for safety on the streets.

ROBERTSON: Key advisers implore FBI and state department representatives for help. The judge running the anticorruption drive rails against Washington for wasted time. Basam looks on. No one in this room expects the police to be ready for the handover for sovereignty in June. But outside, Basam's frustration boils over.

BASAM: They just came to take notes and reports, and then they leave.

ROBERTSON: So you've had people come like this before and take notes and leave.

BASAM: Yes.

ROBERTSON: And what happens?

BASAM: Nothing. This is the problem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well, tune in tonight for more of Nic Robertson's report. CNN presents "Hope & Fear, Journeys in the New Iraq." Nic returns to Iraq to see whether the country is headed towards peace and democracy or chaos and civil war. Nic also reveals the complexities of the new Iraq through the lives of six people. That is tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

When it comes to the war in Iraq, U.S. military officials say the U.S. Marines are observing the rules of engagement. Many insurgents have RPGs and small arms, but why? Let's turn to CNN Contributor and former U.S. Marine Kelly McCann, he is a security and terrorism expert, and his company supplies security for clients in Iraq. Well Kelly let's explain first off, why are RPGs so prevalent?

KELLY MCCANN, CNN CONTRIBITOR: There are a variety of different reasons. We've got a fact sheet that we can pull up and kind of make viewers understand. That there is a couple of reasons they are so good. Number one, they're previoulant all over the battlefield. They're disposable; you can use different warheads. Their range is three to five hundred meters, and they emit no signal, prior to actually firing the device. So it's counter technology weapon, it is what we call a shoot and scoot. You shoot it and then you move to a new firing position.

We have got a couple of other still photos of some firing positions that people are using. I'm going to show you right here if you think of this plane being the ground level, you can see that the only thing that in apposing solider or marine would see is this very small sight picture right there.

In another situation, another still we've got you can see that the area that this person has to hold up, here's another person right here ready to go in, this back-blast area has to be protected, but all you see is just a little bit of this person.

Because of this area, so you can use these weapons as a high explosive weapon, or one to engage armored weapons.

Now if you look at the signature, we will roll the tape, you can see there's this huge dust signature once one's fired. That is typically once the weapon goes off, what the soldiers will basically see and then they will respond to. That's why you'll see people leaving the area almost immediately or seeking cover once they are shot. Here's another example. You can see as soon as it goes off, a lot of dust and that is what would gain your attention.

WHITFIELD: But Kelly, the pictures don't really explain you know where are these RPGS coming from. Are most of these just unclaimed, undocumented ordnances that were left about when Saddam's military was taking control?

MCCANN: Absolutely. It is battlefield available, very prevalent all over the place. It's almost impossible to collect them all and get them off the streets. Now you might ask what are they shooting at. If we roll the next piece of video, you can see that coalition soldiers as move through some of these urban areas, Fred you see just the front of this vehicle peeks out and then he pulls back. Now we will go to a still of this and I will show you what is going on here.

From the insurgent's perspective, when he looks down, you see this right angle right here.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

MCCANN: Inside this Humvee, the limit of their vision is right here. They can't see up. So they have got to be concerned with snipers who can shoot down on them, they have got to be concerned with RPGs that can be shot into them, so they're always playing this cat and mouse game trying to find proper cover. So they won't be engaged, very difficult and dangerous.

WHITFIELD: So the armored vehicles, tanks they are among the easy targets aren't they and even low flying helicopters?

MCCANN: Absolutely, this is since Somalia, has been used against helicopters. Very successfully again it has less signature then SA7, that when you arm it, it admits a signal that can be tracked. So it's very dangerous on a battlefield.

WHITFIELD: Let's talk about collateral damage. Because that is certainly an issue that is being brought up, a topic of concern for Iraqis and those on the coalition side. A number of Iraqi citizens are complaining that such large number of Iraqi citizens is being killed. How is this that this type of collateral damage, is being described by coalition forces, is happening?

MCCANN: There are three levels of rules of engagements. First there's high intensity rule of engagement where you don't have to maintain a line of sight into what you shoot, that might be during general combatants as we had earlier in the year. Where I don't have to be as specific and could call artillery or air into something I don't see.

In Fallujah, for example, and Al Kut, it was precision rules of engagement, or military operations (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which means I must have a direct line of sight. And that doesn't mean that if you are in a building that I can't engage the building or wouldn't engage the building because there are other people in it. So you limited and are restricted or having to see some combats. Now on the other hand, the individual rifleman, we have still photos, that we can show you here and some videos we will go through.

Let me go to that first piece, you can see right here that the lack of use of sights by the insurgents. They are basically spraying the area. And we have another example here where you are nowhere near the sights firing down an ally way. I mean, you can see you can't control where those rounds are impacting. You think of the hip as a fulcrum. When you move that weapon left to right, it literally sprays bullets.

You can't control it. Now, contrast that with the images I'll show you right now, which a U.S. marine up in Fallujah basically taking a corner with his weapon. You can see that through his line of sight, he does have appropriate precision in his firing. You never see a U.S. or coalition soldier basically putting it on their hip and removing themselves from the ability to control the fire and discriminate targets between non-combatants and combatants. There's a lot more going on in urban areas than people realize. The U.S. and its coalition partners and the Iraqi forces are restricted by rules of engagement where the insurgents clearly are not.

WHITFIELD: And we heard from Brig. General Mark Kimmitt yesterday as well as today, really trying to reiterate that it was an operation of precision and not arbitrary targeting.

One other thing that he was asked during a press conference early today was really about religious buildings, mosques. We know that in Fallujah last week there was a mosque that was destroyed, and it was a target. Could you explain for us the rules of engagement when it pertains to religious building and institutions?

MCCANN: Absolutely. There is a clause in the Law of Land Warfare, which is Field Manual 27-10 that states that, religious and places that have historical artifacts and everything are restricted and protected, provided that no military activity is being conducted therein. The minute that there is military weapons, especially when activities and offensive operations are mounted from those positions, then they lose that protected status.

It's funny, I've spoken to some Arabist that say unless the mosque has historical value, then even the insurgents find that comical that the U.S. forces are overly sensitive. And most of the time what you find when U.S. forces and coalition forces go into a mosque, they don't literally go into the spaces, typically the mortar tubes and area fired weapons are out in the yard. They might breach the barricades etc. on the outside. They typically don't go inside the building unless individual riflemen have barricaded themselves inside.

WHITFIELD: Interesting, now another obstacle the coalition forces are finding there is discerning who is who, particularly because there aren't uniforms that are marking who is enemy or friendly fire, et cetera.

MCCANN: If you noticed in these videos I showed you of the insurgents, not one had a uniform on. And make that like down in the Shia section, all of those pilgrims easy to slip away Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kelly McCann our military analyst, thank you so much.

MCCANN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: On now to Nuevo Progresso, Mexico a town near the U.S. border rescue efforts are resuming after yesterday's deadly explosion. CNN's Alina Cho joins us live now from Progresso, Texas with the very latest from there.

Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, here is what we know right now. Eight people are confirmed dead, 12 are reported injured, and it is not known at this point if there is anyone still trapped in the rubble. What we do know is that Nuevo Progresso hasn't seen anything like this before and is trying to deal with what happened.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO (voice over): These two women couldn't hide their grief after learning their elderly neighbor was among those killed in the blast. She was a small, round woman, she said affectionately. She was a good friend.

GRACIELA ELIZONDO, INJURED MAN'S DAUGHTER: He has one here, several cuts on the head.

CHO: Graciela Elizondo's (ph) father was driving by when it happened.

ELIZONDO: He just heard a big bang, and then all the stones were falling on his car.

CHO: She says her father is out of danger now, but in the beginning --

ELIZONDO: We didn't know what happened. After we saw our father, we heard the news, and it was a shocking.

CHO: Rescuers meantime continue their slow search for bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not giving up hope that we might find survivors, but in reality, we're looking at recovery.

CHO: Power is out during the search for safety reasons, so businesses in the area are closed. Down the street one tortilla shop is open and at 80 cents for ten tortillas can't keep up with the demand. We are selling a little more today, says the owner, because there is no electricity in the other tortilla shops. These women say this small Mexican town couldn't get through this without the help of American rescue workers from across the border.

They said, we are very grateful for this help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: And those American and Mexican rescue workers will continue their work at least through tomorrow. Meanwhile, we have just been told that the man who owns the restaurant that was destroyed in the blast was actually out of town when it happened, and has just come back to find his business in ruins. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Alina Cho, thanks very much from Progresso, Texas.

Well when is a square not a square? When it's Times Square. It's 100 years old, and we have an admirer to talk to us about his favorites parts of Times Square.

And she's back, but did Janet Jackson have any malfunctions this time?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Neon signs, flashing lights, and bigger than life ads, that is a big part of what makes New York's Time Square legendary. Last week the square turned 100. In a moment a look at what makes the popular gathering spot so unique but first our Jason Carroll has this Times Square history lesson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Say Times Square, and this is the probably the image that comes to mind. Crowds, cheers, and lots of confetti. For nearly a century, it has been party central for New Year's Eve, but through the decades Times Squares has evolved from the roaring 20s site of glamorous showgirls to Broadway's great white way. To the peep show paradise that came in the '60s and '70s, to the cleaned up, family-focused tourist destination we see today. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the new Times Square.

JAMES TRAUN, AUTHOR, "THE DEVIL'S PLAYGROUND: We're about to get run over.

CARROLL: The Historian James Traun. He helped us navigate through the decades. He knows all that is Times Square.

TRAUN: TRO over here.

CARROLL: What was that?

TRAUN: It was called the Astoh Hotel.

CARROLL: Many of the local landmarks are long gone, so much too is the crime that plagued the area in the '70ss. Now it's Disney, Gap and ESPN. But some say there's still enough here for every taste.

ED KOCH, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: This is a street that is attractive to singles on the make and families that want to show their kids a good time.

CARROLL: So for a few New Yorkers this message to Times Square --

MARIO CUOMO, FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Happy 100th birthday Times Square, I hope I'm here for your 125th.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy 100th birthday Times Square from us here at MTV. You are still acting young to us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Technically you're not even a square; you are more of a polygon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy Birthday Times Square, and the naked cowboy.

Naked cowboy coming to a town near you.

CARROLL: Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Still not wearing any clothes. Well after 100 years, Times Square is part of the fabric of America and the world. What makes it's so special besides some of what you saw? We turn to New York native an architectural historian Barry Lewis. Well we have seen, Barry, that many faces of Times Square certainly a span of 100 years. What's your favorite face of Times Square?

BARRY LEWIS, ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIAN: Well I guess Fredricka it depends on what area you're talking about. You know I go back 50 years in Times Square, so I remember when my uncle who worked for 20th Century Fox used to get us tickets for the great premieres, the ruby premieres, which were in the old Roxie, just north of Times Square. And it was quite elegant. Quite elegant. And of course in those days people were dressed to the nines just to go to the theater.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

LEWIS: So that was one Times Square. Then there was the Times Square of the 1970s, when my friends and I used to go to the first-run movie theaters in Times Square, and they were first run but most of the middle class was on the Upper East Side.

WHITFIELD: And I was going to say Times Square kind of got a bad rap for the '60s and '70s as being kind of the seedy years of Times Square.

LEWIS: It did, but you know the city was also down on its knees, so to speak and it was a tough time for New York. And Times Square I think reflected it. I think Times Square always reflects what the city is doing at that particular moment.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Let's go back even further than, lets talk about 100 years ago. Neither you or I of course were any where close to being there buy --

LEWIS: I'm a historian, I guess I was there.

WHITFIELD: We have studied it. But let's talk about it being called long acre square, and it really was a place more of kind of horse-trading. Is that right?

LEWIS: It was a horse and carriage district, it was their version of the automobile showroom district, of course before the automobile. So if you go back to 1890 or 1885, and you were in New York in that period you said "long acre square," most people would hold their nose. It was that kind of square.

WHITFIELD: Now did that last long? At what point did it become a place of brothels? That's what I read.

LEWIS: Basically what happened was the theater district moved uptown, as everything moved uptown in the early 20th century in New York? The theaters used to be down in what we called Soho today. And that was in the 1850's and by the 1890s they were in Herald Square. By the 1900s, they crossed 42nd Street and finally made it into Long Acre Square which in 1904 was renamed Times Square.

WHITFIELD: Oh, and then it was closer to 1904, 1910, when you started seeing the theaters, the 42nd Street, where people were kind of convening there as being the epicenter of New York Broadway?

LEWIS: Well I guess it's the defector pe assista san Marco (ph) of the city. It is where everybody would gather, certainly when I was a kid, and there was only radio, you would come to Times Square for breaking news, to look at the zipper that ran around the Times Building and of course there always another 100 thousand people in the square you could schmooze with, you can talk to, you can exchange opinions with, very important in New York but there was a sense that you were making history, because you went down to Times Square to make that history. WHITFIELD: Interesting. Then people kind of lost interest, the '30s, a depression, etc. and then a revival of sorts after World War II and it really became a magnet for everyone, didn't it?

LEWIS: I think what's happened in the last five, eight years, since Disney invested in the New Amsterdam, and they did a marvelous job with redoing the Amsterdam, but their decision to put their money into Times Square, it says to the rest of corporate America that Times Square was ready for redevelopment and that's what they did.

WHITFIELD: Wow, Barry Lewis, thanks very much for helping us recognize the many faces and changes and evolution of Times Square. And Happy Birthday to it on its 100th.

LEWIS: Thanks Fredricka. Happy Birthday Times Square.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks a lot. Yes.

Well, Easter appears to have a powerful influence at the box office. That story when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Pope John Paul II delivered a message of hope this Easter at Vatican the Pope condemned terrorism while urging world leaders to embrace peace in Iraq and in other troubled spots. Tens of thousands of people packed St. Peter's Square to hear him.

In this country, hundreds of people gathered at the Legal Memorial in Washington for a sunrise service.

Easter in the Christian religion is a day the bible says Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Easter apparently helped Mel Gibson's movie at the box office. "The Passion of the Christ" reclaimed the top spot earning more than $17 million dollars this weekend. The seven-week hall is now nearly $355 million.

From heaven to hell, the movie "Hellboy" took the number two spot with more than $11 million and Disney's remake of "The Alamo" tied with another newcomer the "Johnson Family Vacation" that was third place.

On the small screen, Janet Jackson again adapted the role of flasher as she hosted NBC "Saturday Night Live" last night, but audiences were treated to a pixilated shot, not a peep show. Jackson proved she could make fun of herself with plenty of other references to her now infamous Super Bowl halftime incident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET JACKSON: Oh, here's a cute one. This is a really old one; here I am playing in the pool. It's a little women suit malfunction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Well coming up at 5:00 Eastern on CNN "NEXT@CNN," and at 6:00 p.m. Eastern, author John Feinstein (ph) talks to Carol Len about Tom Watson and Bruce Edwards in his next book, "Caddy for Life."

At 7:00 Eastern "People in the News" tonight's profile is Billy Graham and Mel Gibson. Thank for joining us. I will be back with a look at the headlines after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 12, 2004 - 16:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SUNDAY: Here are the latest developments at this hour. The Arab television network Al-Jazeera reports a kidnapper say they will release eight men taken hostage in Iraq, two Turfs, three Pakistanis, a Nepalese, a Philippine and an Indian were accused by their captors of driving trucks for the U.S. led coalition.
A U.S. army Apache helicopter like the one you're about to see was shot down today west of Baghdad. U.S. officials say the copter was hit by a surface-to-air missile fired by insurgents. The two pilots aboard were killed.

In the Besieged City rocky city of Fallujah, cease-fire remains in place between coalition troops and Iraqi insurgents. During the pause in fighting, talks are expected to bring calm to the city. Violence in Fallujah has raged for nearly a week now.

President Bush is speaking out about the recent up tick in violence in Iraq after attending and Easter services at Ft. Hood in Texas today. The president says it has been, "it's been a tough week in Iraq." He went on to say violence will not stop Iraq's progress toward democracy.

Many Iraqi police are not looking forward to the June 30th handover of power from the U.S. Many say their fellow officers are unnecessarily being killed or injured, and they feel Washington hasn't acted quickly enough. Here's CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The major fasom (ph) is under pressure, caught between twin loyalist, to the Iraqis, and to the U.S. lead occupation or CPA, a difficult balancing act.

BASAM (ph): The Americans want to build American democracy in Iraqi that would be a big mistake. They have to build Iraqi democracy in Iraq.

ROBERTSON: Basam is angry, colleagues have been killed and injured for lack of proper gear while the U.S. military police or MP's have everything they need. He takes me to visit an injured colleague, wounded as he tried to defuse a roadside bomb without a protective flight vest.

BASAM: After that incident, the MP's and CPA they distribute hundreds of vests.

ROBERTSON: After?

BASAM: After that, because yes, I took them to the hospital to see the colleague who lost his arm.

ROBERTSON: He isn't bitter, just wiser.

BASAM: They have priorities. Priority for themselves, then the IPS, and then the citizens.

ROBERTSON: But coalition headquarters were allowed a rare behind the scenes glimpse at the scramble to recruit and equip IPS.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police and civilian security structure, which is what's really going to make or break our deal here for safety on the streets.

ROBERTSON: Key advisers implore FBI and state department representatives for help. The judge running the anticorruption drive rails against Washington for wasted time. Basam looks on. No one in this room expects the police to be ready for the handover for sovereignty in June. But outside, Basam's frustration boils over.

BASAM: They just came to take notes and reports, and then they leave.

ROBERTSON: So you've had people come like this before and take notes and leave.

BASAM: Yes.

ROBERTSON: And what happens?

BASAM: Nothing. This is the problem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well, tune in tonight for more of Nic Robertson's report. CNN presents "Hope & Fear, Journeys in the New Iraq." Nic returns to Iraq to see whether the country is headed towards peace and democracy or chaos and civil war. Nic also reveals the complexities of the new Iraq through the lives of six people. That is tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

When it comes to the war in Iraq, U.S. military officials say the U.S. Marines are observing the rules of engagement. Many insurgents have RPGs and small arms, but why? Let's turn to CNN Contributor and former U.S. Marine Kelly McCann, he is a security and terrorism expert, and his company supplies security for clients in Iraq. Well Kelly let's explain first off, why are RPGs so prevalent?

KELLY MCCANN, CNN CONTRIBITOR: There are a variety of different reasons. We've got a fact sheet that we can pull up and kind of make viewers understand. That there is a couple of reasons they are so good. Number one, they're previoulant all over the battlefield. They're disposable; you can use different warheads. Their range is three to five hundred meters, and they emit no signal, prior to actually firing the device. So it's counter technology weapon, it is what we call a shoot and scoot. You shoot it and then you move to a new firing position.

We have got a couple of other still photos of some firing positions that people are using. I'm going to show you right here if you think of this plane being the ground level, you can see that the only thing that in apposing solider or marine would see is this very small sight picture right there.

In another situation, another still we've got you can see that the area that this person has to hold up, here's another person right here ready to go in, this back-blast area has to be protected, but all you see is just a little bit of this person.

Because of this area, so you can use these weapons as a high explosive weapon, or one to engage armored weapons.

Now if you look at the signature, we will roll the tape, you can see there's this huge dust signature once one's fired. That is typically once the weapon goes off, what the soldiers will basically see and then they will respond to. That's why you'll see people leaving the area almost immediately or seeking cover once they are shot. Here's another example. You can see as soon as it goes off, a lot of dust and that is what would gain your attention.

WHITFIELD: But Kelly, the pictures don't really explain you know where are these RPGS coming from. Are most of these just unclaimed, undocumented ordnances that were left about when Saddam's military was taking control?

MCCANN: Absolutely. It is battlefield available, very prevalent all over the place. It's almost impossible to collect them all and get them off the streets. Now you might ask what are they shooting at. If we roll the next piece of video, you can see that coalition soldiers as move through some of these urban areas, Fred you see just the front of this vehicle peeks out and then he pulls back. Now we will go to a still of this and I will show you what is going on here.

From the insurgent's perspective, when he looks down, you see this right angle right here.

WHITFIELD: Yes.

MCCANN: Inside this Humvee, the limit of their vision is right here. They can't see up. So they have got to be concerned with snipers who can shoot down on them, they have got to be concerned with RPGs that can be shot into them, so they're always playing this cat and mouse game trying to find proper cover. So they won't be engaged, very difficult and dangerous.

WHITFIELD: So the armored vehicles, tanks they are among the easy targets aren't they and even low flying helicopters?

MCCANN: Absolutely, this is since Somalia, has been used against helicopters. Very successfully again it has less signature then SA7, that when you arm it, it admits a signal that can be tracked. So it's very dangerous on a battlefield.

WHITFIELD: Let's talk about collateral damage. Because that is certainly an issue that is being brought up, a topic of concern for Iraqis and those on the coalition side. A number of Iraqi citizens are complaining that such large number of Iraqi citizens is being killed. How is this that this type of collateral damage, is being described by coalition forces, is happening?

MCCANN: There are three levels of rules of engagements. First there's high intensity rule of engagement where you don't have to maintain a line of sight into what you shoot, that might be during general combatants as we had earlier in the year. Where I don't have to be as specific and could call artillery or air into something I don't see.

In Fallujah, for example, and Al Kut, it was precision rules of engagement, or military operations (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which means I must have a direct line of sight. And that doesn't mean that if you are in a building that I can't engage the building or wouldn't engage the building because there are other people in it. So you limited and are restricted or having to see some combats. Now on the other hand, the individual rifleman, we have still photos, that we can show you here and some videos we will go through.

Let me go to that first piece, you can see right here that the lack of use of sights by the insurgents. They are basically spraying the area. And we have another example here where you are nowhere near the sights firing down an ally way. I mean, you can see you can't control where those rounds are impacting. You think of the hip as a fulcrum. When you move that weapon left to right, it literally sprays bullets.

You can't control it. Now, contrast that with the images I'll show you right now, which a U.S. marine up in Fallujah basically taking a corner with his weapon. You can see that through his line of sight, he does have appropriate precision in his firing. You never see a U.S. or coalition soldier basically putting it on their hip and removing themselves from the ability to control the fire and discriminate targets between non-combatants and combatants. There's a lot more going on in urban areas than people realize. The U.S. and its coalition partners and the Iraqi forces are restricted by rules of engagement where the insurgents clearly are not.

WHITFIELD: And we heard from Brig. General Mark Kimmitt yesterday as well as today, really trying to reiterate that it was an operation of precision and not arbitrary targeting.

One other thing that he was asked during a press conference early today was really about religious buildings, mosques. We know that in Fallujah last week there was a mosque that was destroyed, and it was a target. Could you explain for us the rules of engagement when it pertains to religious building and institutions?

MCCANN: Absolutely. There is a clause in the Law of Land Warfare, which is Field Manual 27-10 that states that, religious and places that have historical artifacts and everything are restricted and protected, provided that no military activity is being conducted therein. The minute that there is military weapons, especially when activities and offensive operations are mounted from those positions, then they lose that protected status.

It's funny, I've spoken to some Arabist that say unless the mosque has historical value, then even the insurgents find that comical that the U.S. forces are overly sensitive. And most of the time what you find when U.S. forces and coalition forces go into a mosque, they don't literally go into the spaces, typically the mortar tubes and area fired weapons are out in the yard. They might breach the barricades etc. on the outside. They typically don't go inside the building unless individual riflemen have barricaded themselves inside.

WHITFIELD: Interesting, now another obstacle the coalition forces are finding there is discerning who is who, particularly because there aren't uniforms that are marking who is enemy or friendly fire, et cetera.

MCCANN: If you noticed in these videos I showed you of the insurgents, not one had a uniform on. And make that like down in the Shia section, all of those pilgrims easy to slip away Fred.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kelly McCann our military analyst, thank you so much.

MCCANN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: On now to Nuevo Progresso, Mexico a town near the U.S. border rescue efforts are resuming after yesterday's deadly explosion. CNN's Alina Cho joins us live now from Progresso, Texas with the very latest from there.

Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, here is what we know right now. Eight people are confirmed dead, 12 are reported injured, and it is not known at this point if there is anyone still trapped in the rubble. What we do know is that Nuevo Progresso hasn't seen anything like this before and is trying to deal with what happened.

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CHO (voice over): These two women couldn't hide their grief after learning their elderly neighbor was among those killed in the blast. She was a small, round woman, she said affectionately. She was a good friend.

GRACIELA ELIZONDO, INJURED MAN'S DAUGHTER: He has one here, several cuts on the head.

CHO: Graciela Elizondo's (ph) father was driving by when it happened.

ELIZONDO: He just heard a big bang, and then all the stones were falling on his car.

CHO: She says her father is out of danger now, but in the beginning --

ELIZONDO: We didn't know what happened. After we saw our father, we heard the news, and it was a shocking.

CHO: Rescuers meantime continue their slow search for bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not giving up hope that we might find survivors, but in reality, we're looking at recovery.

CHO: Power is out during the search for safety reasons, so businesses in the area are closed. Down the street one tortilla shop is open and at 80 cents for ten tortillas can't keep up with the demand. We are selling a little more today, says the owner, because there is no electricity in the other tortilla shops. These women say this small Mexican town couldn't get through this without the help of American rescue workers from across the border.

They said, we are very grateful for this help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: And those American and Mexican rescue workers will continue their work at least through tomorrow. Meanwhile, we have just been told that the man who owns the restaurant that was destroyed in the blast was actually out of town when it happened, and has just come back to find his business in ruins. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Alina Cho, thanks very much from Progresso, Texas.

Well when is a square not a square? When it's Times Square. It's 100 years old, and we have an admirer to talk to us about his favorites parts of Times Square.

And she's back, but did Janet Jackson have any malfunctions this time?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Neon signs, flashing lights, and bigger than life ads, that is a big part of what makes New York's Time Square legendary. Last week the square turned 100. In a moment a look at what makes the popular gathering spot so unique but first our Jason Carroll has this Times Square history lesson.

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JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Say Times Square, and this is the probably the image that comes to mind. Crowds, cheers, and lots of confetti. For nearly a century, it has been party central for New Year's Eve, but through the decades Times Squares has evolved from the roaring 20s site of glamorous showgirls to Broadway's great white way. To the peep show paradise that came in the '60s and '70s, to the cleaned up, family-focused tourist destination we see today. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's the new Times Square.

JAMES TRAUN, AUTHOR, "THE DEVIL'S PLAYGROUND: We're about to get run over.

CARROLL: The Historian James Traun. He helped us navigate through the decades. He knows all that is Times Square.

TRAUN: TRO over here.

CARROLL: What was that?

TRAUN: It was called the Astoh Hotel.

CARROLL: Many of the local landmarks are long gone, so much too is the crime that plagued the area in the '70ss. Now it's Disney, Gap and ESPN. But some say there's still enough here for every taste.

ED KOCH, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: This is a street that is attractive to singles on the make and families that want to show their kids a good time.

CARROLL: So for a few New Yorkers this message to Times Square --

MARIO CUOMO, FORMER NEW YORK GOVERNOR: Happy 100th birthday Times Square, I hope I'm here for your 125th.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy 100th birthday Times Square from us here at MTV. You are still acting young to us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Technically you're not even a square; you are more of a polygon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy Birthday Times Square, and the naked cowboy.

Naked cowboy coming to a town near you.

CARROLL: Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Still not wearing any clothes. Well after 100 years, Times Square is part of the fabric of America and the world. What makes it's so special besides some of what you saw? We turn to New York native an architectural historian Barry Lewis. Well we have seen, Barry, that many faces of Times Square certainly a span of 100 years. What's your favorite face of Times Square?

BARRY LEWIS, ARCHITECTURAL HISTORIAN: Well I guess Fredricka it depends on what area you're talking about. You know I go back 50 years in Times Square, so I remember when my uncle who worked for 20th Century Fox used to get us tickets for the great premieres, the ruby premieres, which were in the old Roxie, just north of Times Square. And it was quite elegant. Quite elegant. And of course in those days people were dressed to the nines just to go to the theater.

WHITFIELD: Wow.

LEWIS: So that was one Times Square. Then there was the Times Square of the 1970s, when my friends and I used to go to the first-run movie theaters in Times Square, and they were first run but most of the middle class was on the Upper East Side.

WHITFIELD: And I was going to say Times Square kind of got a bad rap for the '60s and '70s as being kind of the seedy years of Times Square.

LEWIS: It did, but you know the city was also down on its knees, so to speak and it was a tough time for New York. And Times Square I think reflected it. I think Times Square always reflects what the city is doing at that particular moment.

WHITFIELD: Wow. Let's go back even further than, lets talk about 100 years ago. Neither you or I of course were any where close to being there buy --

LEWIS: I'm a historian, I guess I was there.

WHITFIELD: We have studied it. But let's talk about it being called long acre square, and it really was a place more of kind of horse-trading. Is that right?

LEWIS: It was a horse and carriage district, it was their version of the automobile showroom district, of course before the automobile. So if you go back to 1890 or 1885, and you were in New York in that period you said "long acre square," most people would hold their nose. It was that kind of square.

WHITFIELD: Now did that last long? At what point did it become a place of brothels? That's what I read.

LEWIS: Basically what happened was the theater district moved uptown, as everything moved uptown in the early 20th century in New York? The theaters used to be down in what we called Soho today. And that was in the 1850's and by the 1890s they were in Herald Square. By the 1900s, they crossed 42nd Street and finally made it into Long Acre Square which in 1904 was renamed Times Square.

WHITFIELD: Oh, and then it was closer to 1904, 1910, when you started seeing the theaters, the 42nd Street, where people were kind of convening there as being the epicenter of New York Broadway?

LEWIS: Well I guess it's the defector pe assista san Marco (ph) of the city. It is where everybody would gather, certainly when I was a kid, and there was only radio, you would come to Times Square for breaking news, to look at the zipper that ran around the Times Building and of course there always another 100 thousand people in the square you could schmooze with, you can talk to, you can exchange opinions with, very important in New York but there was a sense that you were making history, because you went down to Times Square to make that history. WHITFIELD: Interesting. Then people kind of lost interest, the '30s, a depression, etc. and then a revival of sorts after World War II and it really became a magnet for everyone, didn't it?

LEWIS: I think what's happened in the last five, eight years, since Disney invested in the New Amsterdam, and they did a marvelous job with redoing the Amsterdam, but their decision to put their money into Times Square, it says to the rest of corporate America that Times Square was ready for redevelopment and that's what they did.

WHITFIELD: Wow, Barry Lewis, thanks very much for helping us recognize the many faces and changes and evolution of Times Square. And Happy Birthday to it on its 100th.

LEWIS: Thanks Fredricka. Happy Birthday Times Square.

WHITFIELD: All right, thanks a lot. Yes.

Well, Easter appears to have a powerful influence at the box office. That story when we come right back.

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WHITFIELD: Pope John Paul II delivered a message of hope this Easter at Vatican the Pope condemned terrorism while urging world leaders to embrace peace in Iraq and in other troubled spots. Tens of thousands of people packed St. Peter's Square to hear him.

In this country, hundreds of people gathered at the Legal Memorial in Washington for a sunrise service.

Easter in the Christian religion is a day the bible says Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Easter apparently helped Mel Gibson's movie at the box office. "The Passion of the Christ" reclaimed the top spot earning more than $17 million dollars this weekend. The seven-week hall is now nearly $355 million.

From heaven to hell, the movie "Hellboy" took the number two spot with more than $11 million and Disney's remake of "The Alamo" tied with another newcomer the "Johnson Family Vacation" that was third place.

On the small screen, Janet Jackson again adapted the role of flasher as she hosted NBC "Saturday Night Live" last night, but audiences were treated to a pixilated shot, not a peep show. Jackson proved she could make fun of herself with plenty of other references to her now infamous Super Bowl halftime incident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET JACKSON: Oh, here's a cute one. This is a really old one; here I am playing in the pool. It's a little women suit malfunction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Well coming up at 5:00 Eastern on CNN "NEXT@CNN," and at 6:00 p.m. Eastern, author John Feinstein (ph) talks to Carol Len about Tom Watson and Bruce Edwards in his next book, "Caddy for Life."

At 7:00 Eastern "People in the News" tonight's profile is Billy Graham and Mel Gibson. Thank for joining us. I will be back with a look at the headlines after a short break.

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