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American Morning
New Audio Tape Said to be From America's Public Enemy Number One; 9/11 Commission Rips CIA, FBI
Aired April 15, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Another audiotape, another threat against America from a voice said to be that of Osama bin Laden. This time, though, something new.
It's April 15 and taxpayers beware -- there's a supercomputer out there that can spot a cheat by the car in your driveway.
And how bad can things go when a police chase involves a motor home? A lot of cleaning up to do on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody.
Eight o'clock here in New York.
Revealing testimony about yesterday and how the FBI and the CIA prepared in the fight against terrorism and how prepared they are today. This morning, we'll take a very hard look at how it will be to change the culture in the agencies with someone who's been in charge of both. William Webster our guest in a few moments here on AMERICAN MORNING.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, health news that may burst the bubble on just how healthy social drinking really is. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to be here to explain how safe it is to kick back with a few of your friends, have a couple of drinks each and every day.
HEMMER: All right, Sanjay is up in a moment here.
Jack Cafferty is up now -- good morning, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What do they call that, heavy social drinking?
O'BRIEN: Umm-hmm.
CAFFERTY: Those are drunks that have money.
O'BRIEN: It just sounds a little oxymoronic.
CAFFERTY: That's what heavy social drinkers are, drunks with money.
Coming up in the Cafferty File, a glimpse of life in the Big Apple these days, including the story of a traffic agent writing a guy a parking ticket while he had a heart attack in the street. And the story doesn't end the way you think it will.
HEMMER: Wow!
CAFFERTY: And why you may need to be a millionaire if you want to move to Manhattan and get yourself an apartment here.
O'BRIEN: We all know that.
CAFFERTY: That would be the...
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: You can't afford to live in this city.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: It's crazy.
CAFFERTY: But if you have the million bucks, then you can have a heart attack while you're being written a parking ticket.
HEMMER: That's right.
CAFFERTY: And...
HEMMER: And having a drink with some of your rich friends.
O'BRIEN: Yes, and then it...
CAFFERTY: Yes. And you can meet some heavy social drinkers. Unbelievable...
O'BRIEN: All right, look forward to that. What a tease.
CAFFERTY: ... what people call themselves to justify what they do.
HEMMER: Umm-hmm.
O'BRIEN: The medical profession is calling them heavy social drinkers.
CAFFERTY: Drunks with money.
O'BRIEN: A hundred drinks a month.
CAFFERTY: Well, that -- come on. That's...
O'BRIEN: 3.3, what, drinks a day.
CAFFERTY: One, you need money to buy a hundred drinks and if you drink that many, you're a drunk that has money. Come on.
HEMMER: And if you're drinking that much in New York, you have twice as much money as most other people anyway.
O'BRIEN: I stand corrected. So sorry.
CAFFERTY: Shane's (ph) over there going right on.
O'BRIEN: All right, all right, moving on. And actually we've got serious news to begin with this morning.
This is just in to CNN. Al Jazeera TV is saying that those three Japanese hostages in Iraq have been freed. The Arab network says that the hostages were handed over to Muslim clerics in good health. We're going to have more details on this story as it comes in. These are new pictures coming in from Al Jazeera at this moment. So some good word for the Japanese who were waiting for some word on these hostages, that these three hostages, according to Al Jazeera Television, have been freed and are in good health.
Other news, an Iranian diplomat has been shot and killed in Baghdad. Word of the shooting coming to CNN about half an hour ago. The diplomat was identified as Khalil Naimi. The shooting took place near the Iranian embassy in the Iraqi capital.
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat says that the Palestinians will never give up their quest for an independent state. Arafat's comments come one day after President Bush endorsed a plan by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon that pledges the removal of some West Bank settlements, but not all. Some Palestinians are said to be outraged by President Bush's backing of that plan.
In New Jersey, a judge decides whether to dismiss all charges in the Jayson Williams manslaughter trial. The defense made the request, claiming that prosecutors withheld evidence. Prosecutors say that it was an error, but it was inadvertent.
And in California, a crazy chase in downtown Sacramento. The chase was between a suspect in a stolen motor home -- he must have been moving fast -- and the police. The low speed pursuit ended after the R.V. slammed into a house. Fortunately, nobody was hurt. The police nabbed the suspect.
I mean, come on now.
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Wouldn't you grab something a little faster than a motor home?
HEMMER: I'm telling you. That's right. No such thing as a smart criminal now, is there?
O'BRIEN: My goodness.
HEMMER: Driving an R.V. down the road.
O'BRIEN: It must have been like 20 miles an hour. Pull over.
HEMMER: Yes, not a rocket scientist.
O'BRIEN: Chad, help us.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: A new audio report again tops our news this hour, said to be from America's public enemy number one, Osama bin Laden. The voice on that tape vowing revenge against the U.S. and Israel for the assassination of Hamas founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin last month in Gaza City.
The speaker, whose identity has not been independently confirmed, also offering a truce to any European country that "stops the attacks against Muslims." There was no truce offer, though, in there for the U.S.
Already, European reaction to this.
For that live to London and Christiane Amanpour, who's tracking that -- Christiane, what do you have for us?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, predictably, the Europeans, both those who supported the U.S. in the war in Iraq and those who were against it, have shot down this attempt, if it is by bin Laden, to drive a wedge between Europe and the United States.
Using words such as "unthinkable," "impossible" and "absurd," countries -- Germany, Italy, Britain and also the European Union -- have said that there will be no separate peace between Europe and bin Laden.
So that is the reaction that we've had so far.
It appears that if the speaker is, indeed, bin Laden, he's referring to polls, to public opinion in many European countries which has, by and large, been against the war in Iraq and which continues to be so. And it appears that he is trying to influence the people, because he makes specific reference to the people of Europe and trying to drive a wedge not only between them and their governments, but between Europe and the United States, as well.
Now, one Arab analyst has said that this tape could be a message simply that bin Laden is still alive and is out there ready to cause any amount of trouble that might be coming up. Another analyst, a Western analyst, says that this shows a new bin Laden. Bin Laden has never tried to "negotiate" or bargain or play politics before. Usually his diatribes are focused, they're ideological, they talk about the U.S. mostly and about Islam. But this is an attempt, according to an analyst, to politicize and to try to negotiate.
One British opposition spokesman has said that this shows that al Qaeda is rattled -- Bill.
HEMMER: Christiane, with the experts that you've spoken to and the comments you have heard from them already, oftentimes there are hidden messages in these audiotapes. Is there anything that's been directed toward that possibility at this point?
AMANPOUR: No. The message appears to be quite clear, that if it is bin Laden, that there will be further retaliation. Specifically, they've talked about because of Israel's assassination of Sheikh Yassin, the Hamas leader, last month. Also has said that there would be a "three month window" for Europe to react to this offer of a truce, but it would involve Europeans taking their troops out of -- those who have troops in Baghdad or in Iraq -- to take them out and also any other military activities that may be going on, in the words of the speaker, for Europeans to "stop attacking Muslims."
HEMMER: Christiane Amanpour from London watching the audiotape and reaction to it.
Thanks -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: FBI Director Robert Mueller and CIA Director George Tenet say a new domestic intelligence agency is not necessary. They say they just need time to complete reforms that are already under way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: The Bureau is moving steadily in the right direction and we are making progress thanks to the hard work and dedication of the men and women of the FBI.
GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: It's going to take another five years to build the clandestine service the way the human intelligence capability of this country needs to be run. That's just the fact, from my perspective.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The 9/11 Commission has ripped both agencies for failing to detect the 2001 terrorist plot.
William Webster headed both the FBI and the CIA and he joins us this morning from Washington.
Nice to see you, sir.
Thanks for being with us.
WILLIAM WEBSTER, FORMER DIRECTOR FBI AND CIA: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: We heard George Tenet say that it's going to be five years before the service is able to be at the capability that the United States needs.
One, do you agree with that time line? And why so long, if it's true? WEBSTER: I can't guess the exact years. I think that the director wants to make clear that getting the kind of intelligence that will permit you to move out in front and prevent disaster from occurring requires human resources in place. They're not fungible. They're not something you can take off the shelf. You have to develop them, put them in place and get them to be in a reliable position to know. So it's a continuing process.
That doesn't mean the whole intelligence community is in shambles. It means in order to address this terrorist threat, human intelligence must be expanded. And I think that's what he's trying to say.
O'BRIEN: George Tenet also disagreed pretty heartily with a very critical staff report that was read right before his testimony.
Here's what he had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TENET: All I want to focus on is don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I've done it one way. It ain't the perfect way. And within the structure that I lived with and the power of persuasion and cajoling is absolutely important because, you know, at the end of the day, you still have to lead. You can have all the authority you want, it may not matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: You've seen the staff report.
Who was right? I mean they seem to obviously be at odds about the criticism within that staff report. Is George Tenet right, that there are mistakes, but it's not perfect? Or is the staff report right, that there are massive mistakes and it's far, far, far from perfect?
WEBSTER: I've heard most of the testimony and I've seen some of the reports. I can't really say that I've seen what the staff is getting out there.
I think that George Tenet is talking about the responsibility of leadership and that if you're dealing with organization or reorganization, it's important that the leader must have the authority to do what is expected of him.
Presently, the director of Central Intelligence has certain limitations. He does not do the report card for some two thirds of the intelligence community. He needs more specific authority to do that. That does not mean that we should necessarily create a whole another level of bureaucracy. He's been given additional assistance in the intelligence community area to assist him in that responsibility. But he needs the direct access to his troops and the authority to communicate and to see the job is done. And I believe he's right. O'BRIEN: Many people have called on an overhaul of intelligence. And, of course, we heard from the CIA leader and the FBI leader that they don't think a new bureaucracy should be in place.
What do you think the answer is? Is it creating some new bureaucracy or what would an overhaul look like to you?
WEBSTER: Well, we frequently hear about an MI5 model based on what takes place in Great Britain, the secret service. It's far different, in my view, than what we have traditionally had and what we need to have in a country as large and as vast as our own.
The important thing to do is to be sure that the FBI agents in the field are fully trained in their responsibilities for counter- terrorism. To create another agency, ask the question, are you going to staff it with people from -- of the size necessary to do what's being done today by the FBI? I think not. I think that also the laxity that the U.K. has toward -- or the tolerance they have about physical intrusion and civil liberties would not fly well here. MI5 does not make arrests. MI5 does all sorts of things that would not be permitted under our system.
Rather, instead, what we need to build on is the ability to integrate and to share information. Now, the Patriot Act and other things that came in after September 11 are designed to make that happen. I hope the Commission will look and see whether that's working. We've gone from need to know to need to share. We've created a homeland security department to take that information and to deal with it over a hundred and thousand law enforcement and first responder agencies.
That's to the good. That's the kind of -- the Terrorist Threat Interrogation Center, a real start. And I think it's operating well and we'll do better as they go along, to meet the complaints that the Commission has tabled that the agencies were not talking to each other, as they should.
And, finally, the FBI has an absolutely outmoded computer system, 13 years old on its mainframe. What country -- what corporate in America would tolerate that? They need to be able to respond to the CIA and to other requests with modern equipment so that we can get the vast amount of collected information out to the rest of the community.
O'BRIEN: Well, everything you're talking about costs money, so we'll see where that money is going to come from.
William Webster, the former director of the FBI and the CIA.
It's nice to have you joining us this morning.
WEBSTER: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for your time -- Bill.
HEMMER: Excellent answers on all that, too.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
HEMMER: A lot to think about there.
In a moment here, the hunt for a serial rapist provokes charges of racial profiling. In a moment, the police chief in one town and the man who has refused two requests from police for his own DNA. We'll talk to both of them in a moment here.
O'BRIEN: Also, a question -- could tossing back a few drinks after work hurt you more than you realize?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta looks at some important new details.
HEMMER: Also, have you checked the calendar? April 15, tax cheats beware -- the IRS has new technology to track you down. The question, though, does it go too far?
Ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: The hunt for a serial rapist in Virginia leading now to charges of racial profiling. The suspect now linked to six attacks in the past seven years and might be responsible for a dozen more assaults. Police in Charlottesville established a so-called DNA dragnet, in which about 200 African-American men have been asked to provide genetic samples for testing.
Steven Turner has refused two police requests for his own DNA. He's with us now live in Charlottesville, along with the police chief there, Timothy Longo.
Good morning to both of you gentlemen there in Charlottesville, Virginia.
CHIEF TIMOTHY LONGO, CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA POLICE: Good morning.
STEVEN TURNER, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA STUDENT: Good morning to you.
HEMMER: Mr. Turner, I want to start with you.
What do you object to in giving them your DNA?
TURNER: I object to giving them my DNA because there's no reason I need to give my DNA. Both times they've come to me, they've said, you know what, this is really going to be helpful for the Charlottesville Police Department. We're low on manpower. In order to help us solve this investigation, we're asking men to give us -- give their DNA.
But why should I have to give my DNA? I've done nothing. They're not giving me any compelling evidence that says it's important that I do this other than they're not sure whether I've done it or not. But I'm sure. HEMMER: What about the 197 African-American men who have?
TURNER: I think that's fine if that's the decision that they've made. But the decision that I've made is to say no. And I feel like the Charlottesville police should respect that.
HEMMER: Let's talk to the chief a second here.
What about the criteria, chief, that you're using in this...
LONGO: Well, you know, there...
HEMMER: ... to look for the suspect?
LONGO: Sure. There's a number of ways that gentlemen come to, onto our radar screen with regard to this investigation and others. There's either a 911 call that is made that says hey, look, you need to look at this individual on the corner of such and such a location, he fits the description of this profile. And an officer responds and a contact is made.
Another way is that calls come into our crime stoppers line or directly into the police department saying, hey, look, this guy, Tim Longo, I don't know a lot about him, but I'm telling you, buddy, he looks like this composite. You need to check him out.
Or we put information into the records management system of the police department using the criteria from the suspect description and other offenses that may be related to the kinds of investigations that we're doing now.
HEMMER: Chief, if I could, if a guy like Steven Turner comes to you and says I'm not going to do it, does that raise suspicion in your mind?
LONGO: Well, you know, the mere refusal to submit to a voluntary test, it could, depending if other criteria exist. For example, if Steven Turner or someone like him had a criminal history -- peeping in windows, burglary, trespass, those kinds of things -- it could take it to the next level. Sometimes what happens is the initial request for the buckle swab has been made by a patrol officer who responded to a call.
A follow-up may be done by an investigator for no other reason than to say hey, look, we know you've had a police contact. We want to further explain what we're trying to accomplish here, give you the opportunity to make an informed decision. The intent...
HEMMER: Let's move forward just a little bit...
LONGO: Sure.
HEMMER: ... only because I know you've had a town hall meeting and you're about the possibility of changing the rules by which you're acting right now. If you get those changes, what would they be to a guy like Steven Turner, who's sitting right next to you that would make it more appealing to him, chief?
LONGO: Well, I'll tell you, what I walked away from Monday night after our community discussion and my conversations with Steve is that they want the criteria to be something that's more meaningful, that's more compelling, in his words, not only from the initial or the follow-up approach, but the initial approach. And we're looking at that criteria. We're also looking at what to do with the buckle swab when it comes back, as in elimination. Do we destroy it?
HEMMER: So if those changes are made, Steve, would you agree to it then or not?
TURNER: I think, actually, those changes that the chief just suggested are important, but they're not the only changes we need to take a look at. I think when the Charlottesville police approach men for this sample, I think, one, they need to tell them that you know what, you don't have to give us a sample. I think, two, they need to say -- the Charlottesville police, when a person says no, they need to accept no. No for the Charlottesville police seems to mean this is where we're going to start negotiating.
HEMMER: Hmm.
TURNER: And that needs to change.
HEMMER: Steven, if I could, in a few seconds here, if someone came to you and said hey, you're just being a bad citizen, what would you say?
TURNER: You know, I've heard that before. I've heard that for the past nine months, you know, if you have nothing to hide, you should probably submit to the test. But the way I look at it, because I have nothing to hide, I don't have to submit to the test.
HEMMER: Thanks...
TURNER: I think I'm being a great citizen.
HEMMER: Yes.
Listen, thanks for talking and we're out of time.
TURNER: Thank you.
HEMMER: We can talk more.
Steven Turner, thanks.
Chief Longo, in Charlottesville, Virginia.
LONGO: Thank you.
HEMMER: Now Soledad. O'BRIEN: Well, millions of Americans are in a race against time today as they struggle to get their tax returns in the mail before midnight tonight. And if you live in the State of Massachusetts, there's a new reason to beware this tax day. It's just one of a few states using new technology to make sure that you pay what you owe. But some believe it goes too far, as we hear from CNN's Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's like a command center -- multiple monitors fed by powerful computers, spinning, blinking and spitting out data. The Department of Revenue in Massachusetts has a new way of harvesting existing information to track down tax cheats, individuals and businesses.
ALAN LEBOVIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS REVENUE COMMISSIONER: What the computers allow us to do is to integrate the information, bring it all together and from all various sources, come up with a kind of a structure of what the taxpayer looks like, calculate the tax and then send them a bill.
LOTHIAN: A Jaguar owner's declared income didn't match his expensive taste. A man who worked in state and failed to file state income taxes owed $33,000. And a resident bought a multi-million dollar Renaissance painting overseas but didn't pay the five percent use tax, all finally paid.
The data warehouse has information from the IRS, U.S. Customs, Registry of Motor Vehicles and private agencies.
(on camera): Officials say since this system became fully operational, they've been able to track down and recover a million dollars a week.
(voice-over): So far, more than $60 million collected.
But some privacy advocates are concerned.
CHRIS HOOFNAGLE, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFORMATION CENTER: The risk here is that states have increasing power, through the use of personal information, for law enforcement or tax revenue purposes.
LOTHIAN: And he says it's happening without proper regulations.
HOOFNAGLE: We have to look at the corresponding harm to individuals' rights.
LEBOVIDGE: If you're paying your taxes, you don't have to worry.
LOTHIAN: Even as workers and machines process tax filings, computers continue hunting for more dollars, a benefit to the state, but critics ask, at what cost?
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: By the way, the system has also found some folks who are owed some money. It's cost the Massachusetts Department of Revenue some $7 million in refunds -- Bill.
HEMMER: In a moment here, much more on the new threats made in that audiotape said to be from Osama bin Laden.
We'll get to that in a moment here.
Also, more than 20,000 U.S. troops getting some tough news back in Iraq. They will stay in that country for at least three more months.
Back in a moment here. Twenty-four past the hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right, back to Jack.
The Question of the Day -- good morning.
CAFFERTY: The Question of the Day is all about Osama bin Laden, Bill, the new audiotape saying that the al Qaeda operative and leader is offering European nations a truce if they will stop attacking Muslims. Yesterday, CIA Director George Tenet told the 9/11 Commission it will take another five years to have the intelligence necessary to protect against another al Qaeda attack in this country.
The question this morning is how important is it to get bin Laden?
D.W. in Crescent City, California says: "It's too late now. Ten years ago, it would have made a difference. Now his movement of anti- American/Israel/Islamic fundamentalism has metastasized all over the world into independent growths."
Mark in Washington, D.C.: "Maybe just a possibility -- had we sent 100,000 troops that are currently in Iraq to Afghanistan, we could have found bin Laden long ago and those troops would be home, you think?"
Bob in Conyers, Georgia: "It's only important if Bush wants to be reelected. It's only important if America is to be taken seriously and not to be considered a toothless, impotent, arthritic lion. He may only be a symbol, but symbols such as the swastika, skull and crossbones, the cross, the Star of David, all have meaning."
And Peggy weighs in from California with this: "I think it's more important to get bin Laden than anything else this country has to worry about. Our military should have blown up any suspected hiding place of bin Laden. Anyone or any country involved in aiding this murderer should be annihilated. And that's not this woman's menopause talking."
O'BRIEN: We hear you, sister.
HEMMER: From the heart.
CAFFERTY: She got to the end of that and said wooh, I'd better temper this a little bit.
O'BRIEN: Exactly.
HEMMER: Expect to hear a lot of conversation about that second e-mail today, too.
CAFFERTY: About this -- which one?
O'BRIEN: No question.
HEMMER: The groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan.
O'BRIEN: Could the world have been better served...
HEMMER: The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is still there.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: ... in Afghanistan.
HEMMER: You're going to have a lot of fallout from that throughout the day today.
CAFFERTY: Yes. Hello?
HEMMER: Let's get a break here.
In a moment here, political advice for both the president and Senator John Kerry from a one time politician herself, ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired April 15, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Another audiotape, another threat against America from a voice said to be that of Osama bin Laden. This time, though, something new.
It's April 15 and taxpayers beware -- there's a supercomputer out there that can spot a cheat by the car in your driveway.
And how bad can things go when a police chase involves a motor home? A lot of cleaning up to do on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Bill Hemmer.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everybody.
Eight o'clock here in New York.
Revealing testimony about yesterday and how the FBI and the CIA prepared in the fight against terrorism and how prepared they are today. This morning, we'll take a very hard look at how it will be to change the culture in the agencies with someone who's been in charge of both. William Webster our guest in a few moments here on AMERICAN MORNING.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, health news that may burst the bubble on just how healthy social drinking really is. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to be here to explain how safe it is to kick back with a few of your friends, have a couple of drinks each and every day.
HEMMER: All right, Sanjay is up in a moment here.
Jack Cafferty is up now -- good morning, Jack.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What do they call that, heavy social drinking?
O'BRIEN: Umm-hmm.
CAFFERTY: Those are drunks that have money.
O'BRIEN: It just sounds a little oxymoronic.
CAFFERTY: That's what heavy social drinkers are, drunks with money.
Coming up in the Cafferty File, a glimpse of life in the Big Apple these days, including the story of a traffic agent writing a guy a parking ticket while he had a heart attack in the street. And the story doesn't end the way you think it will.
HEMMER: Wow!
CAFFERTY: And why you may need to be a millionaire if you want to move to Manhattan and get yourself an apartment here.
O'BRIEN: We all know that.
CAFFERTY: That would be the...
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: You can't afford to live in this city.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: It's crazy.
CAFFERTY: But if you have the million bucks, then you can have a heart attack while you're being written a parking ticket.
HEMMER: That's right.
CAFFERTY: And...
HEMMER: And having a drink with some of your rich friends.
O'BRIEN: Yes, and then it...
CAFFERTY: Yes. And you can meet some heavy social drinkers. Unbelievable...
O'BRIEN: All right, look forward to that. What a tease.
CAFFERTY: ... what people call themselves to justify what they do.
HEMMER: Umm-hmm.
O'BRIEN: The medical profession is calling them heavy social drinkers.
CAFFERTY: Drunks with money.
O'BRIEN: A hundred drinks a month.
CAFFERTY: Well, that -- come on. That's...
O'BRIEN: 3.3, what, drinks a day.
CAFFERTY: One, you need money to buy a hundred drinks and if you drink that many, you're a drunk that has money. Come on.
HEMMER: And if you're drinking that much in New York, you have twice as much money as most other people anyway.
O'BRIEN: I stand corrected. So sorry.
CAFFERTY: Shane's (ph) over there going right on.
O'BRIEN: All right, all right, moving on. And actually we've got serious news to begin with this morning.
This is just in to CNN. Al Jazeera TV is saying that those three Japanese hostages in Iraq have been freed. The Arab network says that the hostages were handed over to Muslim clerics in good health. We're going to have more details on this story as it comes in. These are new pictures coming in from Al Jazeera at this moment. So some good word for the Japanese who were waiting for some word on these hostages, that these three hostages, according to Al Jazeera Television, have been freed and are in good health.
Other news, an Iranian diplomat has been shot and killed in Baghdad. Word of the shooting coming to CNN about half an hour ago. The diplomat was identified as Khalil Naimi. The shooting took place near the Iranian embassy in the Iraqi capital.
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat says that the Palestinians will never give up their quest for an independent state. Arafat's comments come one day after President Bush endorsed a plan by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon that pledges the removal of some West Bank settlements, but not all. Some Palestinians are said to be outraged by President Bush's backing of that plan.
In New Jersey, a judge decides whether to dismiss all charges in the Jayson Williams manslaughter trial. The defense made the request, claiming that prosecutors withheld evidence. Prosecutors say that it was an error, but it was inadvertent.
And in California, a crazy chase in downtown Sacramento. The chase was between a suspect in a stolen motor home -- he must have been moving fast -- and the police. The low speed pursuit ended after the R.V. slammed into a house. Fortunately, nobody was hurt. The police nabbed the suspect.
I mean, come on now.
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Wouldn't you grab something a little faster than a motor home?
HEMMER: I'm telling you. That's right. No such thing as a smart criminal now, is there?
O'BRIEN: My goodness.
HEMMER: Driving an R.V. down the road.
O'BRIEN: It must have been like 20 miles an hour. Pull over.
HEMMER: Yes, not a rocket scientist.
O'BRIEN: Chad, help us.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: A new audio report again tops our news this hour, said to be from America's public enemy number one, Osama bin Laden. The voice on that tape vowing revenge against the U.S. and Israel for the assassination of Hamas founder Sheikh Ahmed Yassin last month in Gaza City.
The speaker, whose identity has not been independently confirmed, also offering a truce to any European country that "stops the attacks against Muslims." There was no truce offer, though, in there for the U.S.
Already, European reaction to this.
For that live to London and Christiane Amanpour, who's tracking that -- Christiane, what do you have for us?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Bill, predictably, the Europeans, both those who supported the U.S. in the war in Iraq and those who were against it, have shot down this attempt, if it is by bin Laden, to drive a wedge between Europe and the United States.
Using words such as "unthinkable," "impossible" and "absurd," countries -- Germany, Italy, Britain and also the European Union -- have said that there will be no separate peace between Europe and bin Laden.
So that is the reaction that we've had so far.
It appears that if the speaker is, indeed, bin Laden, he's referring to polls, to public opinion in many European countries which has, by and large, been against the war in Iraq and which continues to be so. And it appears that he is trying to influence the people, because he makes specific reference to the people of Europe and trying to drive a wedge not only between them and their governments, but between Europe and the United States, as well.
Now, one Arab analyst has said that this tape could be a message simply that bin Laden is still alive and is out there ready to cause any amount of trouble that might be coming up. Another analyst, a Western analyst, says that this shows a new bin Laden. Bin Laden has never tried to "negotiate" or bargain or play politics before. Usually his diatribes are focused, they're ideological, they talk about the U.S. mostly and about Islam. But this is an attempt, according to an analyst, to politicize and to try to negotiate.
One British opposition spokesman has said that this shows that al Qaeda is rattled -- Bill.
HEMMER: Christiane, with the experts that you've spoken to and the comments you have heard from them already, oftentimes there are hidden messages in these audiotapes. Is there anything that's been directed toward that possibility at this point?
AMANPOUR: No. The message appears to be quite clear, that if it is bin Laden, that there will be further retaliation. Specifically, they've talked about because of Israel's assassination of Sheikh Yassin, the Hamas leader, last month. Also has said that there would be a "three month window" for Europe to react to this offer of a truce, but it would involve Europeans taking their troops out of -- those who have troops in Baghdad or in Iraq -- to take them out and also any other military activities that may be going on, in the words of the speaker, for Europeans to "stop attacking Muslims."
HEMMER: Christiane Amanpour from London watching the audiotape and reaction to it.
Thanks -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: FBI Director Robert Mueller and CIA Director George Tenet say a new domestic intelligence agency is not necessary. They say they just need time to complete reforms that are already under way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: The Bureau is moving steadily in the right direction and we are making progress thanks to the hard work and dedication of the men and women of the FBI.
GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: It's going to take another five years to build the clandestine service the way the human intelligence capability of this country needs to be run. That's just the fact, from my perspective.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The 9/11 Commission has ripped both agencies for failing to detect the 2001 terrorist plot.
William Webster headed both the FBI and the CIA and he joins us this morning from Washington.
Nice to see you, sir.
Thanks for being with us.
WILLIAM WEBSTER, FORMER DIRECTOR FBI AND CIA: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: We heard George Tenet say that it's going to be five years before the service is able to be at the capability that the United States needs.
One, do you agree with that time line? And why so long, if it's true? WEBSTER: I can't guess the exact years. I think that the director wants to make clear that getting the kind of intelligence that will permit you to move out in front and prevent disaster from occurring requires human resources in place. They're not fungible. They're not something you can take off the shelf. You have to develop them, put them in place and get them to be in a reliable position to know. So it's a continuing process.
That doesn't mean the whole intelligence community is in shambles. It means in order to address this terrorist threat, human intelligence must be expanded. And I think that's what he's trying to say.
O'BRIEN: George Tenet also disagreed pretty heartily with a very critical staff report that was read right before his testimony.
Here's what he had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TENET: All I want to focus on is don't throw the baby out with the bath water. I've done it one way. It ain't the perfect way. And within the structure that I lived with and the power of persuasion and cajoling is absolutely important because, you know, at the end of the day, you still have to lead. You can have all the authority you want, it may not matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: You've seen the staff report.
Who was right? I mean they seem to obviously be at odds about the criticism within that staff report. Is George Tenet right, that there are mistakes, but it's not perfect? Or is the staff report right, that there are massive mistakes and it's far, far, far from perfect?
WEBSTER: I've heard most of the testimony and I've seen some of the reports. I can't really say that I've seen what the staff is getting out there.
I think that George Tenet is talking about the responsibility of leadership and that if you're dealing with organization or reorganization, it's important that the leader must have the authority to do what is expected of him.
Presently, the director of Central Intelligence has certain limitations. He does not do the report card for some two thirds of the intelligence community. He needs more specific authority to do that. That does not mean that we should necessarily create a whole another level of bureaucracy. He's been given additional assistance in the intelligence community area to assist him in that responsibility. But he needs the direct access to his troops and the authority to communicate and to see the job is done. And I believe he's right. O'BRIEN: Many people have called on an overhaul of intelligence. And, of course, we heard from the CIA leader and the FBI leader that they don't think a new bureaucracy should be in place.
What do you think the answer is? Is it creating some new bureaucracy or what would an overhaul look like to you?
WEBSTER: Well, we frequently hear about an MI5 model based on what takes place in Great Britain, the secret service. It's far different, in my view, than what we have traditionally had and what we need to have in a country as large and as vast as our own.
The important thing to do is to be sure that the FBI agents in the field are fully trained in their responsibilities for counter- terrorism. To create another agency, ask the question, are you going to staff it with people from -- of the size necessary to do what's being done today by the FBI? I think not. I think that also the laxity that the U.K. has toward -- or the tolerance they have about physical intrusion and civil liberties would not fly well here. MI5 does not make arrests. MI5 does all sorts of things that would not be permitted under our system.
Rather, instead, what we need to build on is the ability to integrate and to share information. Now, the Patriot Act and other things that came in after September 11 are designed to make that happen. I hope the Commission will look and see whether that's working. We've gone from need to know to need to share. We've created a homeland security department to take that information and to deal with it over a hundred and thousand law enforcement and first responder agencies.
That's to the good. That's the kind of -- the Terrorist Threat Interrogation Center, a real start. And I think it's operating well and we'll do better as they go along, to meet the complaints that the Commission has tabled that the agencies were not talking to each other, as they should.
And, finally, the FBI has an absolutely outmoded computer system, 13 years old on its mainframe. What country -- what corporate in America would tolerate that? They need to be able to respond to the CIA and to other requests with modern equipment so that we can get the vast amount of collected information out to the rest of the community.
O'BRIEN: Well, everything you're talking about costs money, so we'll see where that money is going to come from.
William Webster, the former director of the FBI and the CIA.
It's nice to have you joining us this morning.
WEBSTER: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Thanks for your time -- Bill.
HEMMER: Excellent answers on all that, too.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
HEMMER: A lot to think about there.
In a moment here, the hunt for a serial rapist provokes charges of racial profiling. In a moment, the police chief in one town and the man who has refused two requests from police for his own DNA. We'll talk to both of them in a moment here.
O'BRIEN: Also, a question -- could tossing back a few drinks after work hurt you more than you realize?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta looks at some important new details.
HEMMER: Also, have you checked the calendar? April 15, tax cheats beware -- the IRS has new technology to track you down. The question, though, does it go too far?
Ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: The hunt for a serial rapist in Virginia leading now to charges of racial profiling. The suspect now linked to six attacks in the past seven years and might be responsible for a dozen more assaults. Police in Charlottesville established a so-called DNA dragnet, in which about 200 African-American men have been asked to provide genetic samples for testing.
Steven Turner has refused two police requests for his own DNA. He's with us now live in Charlottesville, along with the police chief there, Timothy Longo.
Good morning to both of you gentlemen there in Charlottesville, Virginia.
CHIEF TIMOTHY LONGO, CHARLOTTESVILLE, VIRGINIA POLICE: Good morning.
STEVEN TURNER, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA STUDENT: Good morning to you.
HEMMER: Mr. Turner, I want to start with you.
What do you object to in giving them your DNA?
TURNER: I object to giving them my DNA because there's no reason I need to give my DNA. Both times they've come to me, they've said, you know what, this is really going to be helpful for the Charlottesville Police Department. We're low on manpower. In order to help us solve this investigation, we're asking men to give us -- give their DNA.
But why should I have to give my DNA? I've done nothing. They're not giving me any compelling evidence that says it's important that I do this other than they're not sure whether I've done it or not. But I'm sure. HEMMER: What about the 197 African-American men who have?
TURNER: I think that's fine if that's the decision that they've made. But the decision that I've made is to say no. And I feel like the Charlottesville police should respect that.
HEMMER: Let's talk to the chief a second here.
What about the criteria, chief, that you're using in this...
LONGO: Well, you know, there...
HEMMER: ... to look for the suspect?
LONGO: Sure. There's a number of ways that gentlemen come to, onto our radar screen with regard to this investigation and others. There's either a 911 call that is made that says hey, look, you need to look at this individual on the corner of such and such a location, he fits the description of this profile. And an officer responds and a contact is made.
Another way is that calls come into our crime stoppers line or directly into the police department saying, hey, look, this guy, Tim Longo, I don't know a lot about him, but I'm telling you, buddy, he looks like this composite. You need to check him out.
Or we put information into the records management system of the police department using the criteria from the suspect description and other offenses that may be related to the kinds of investigations that we're doing now.
HEMMER: Chief, if I could, if a guy like Steven Turner comes to you and says I'm not going to do it, does that raise suspicion in your mind?
LONGO: Well, you know, the mere refusal to submit to a voluntary test, it could, depending if other criteria exist. For example, if Steven Turner or someone like him had a criminal history -- peeping in windows, burglary, trespass, those kinds of things -- it could take it to the next level. Sometimes what happens is the initial request for the buckle swab has been made by a patrol officer who responded to a call.
A follow-up may be done by an investigator for no other reason than to say hey, look, we know you've had a police contact. We want to further explain what we're trying to accomplish here, give you the opportunity to make an informed decision. The intent...
HEMMER: Let's move forward just a little bit...
LONGO: Sure.
HEMMER: ... only because I know you've had a town hall meeting and you're about the possibility of changing the rules by which you're acting right now. If you get those changes, what would they be to a guy like Steven Turner, who's sitting right next to you that would make it more appealing to him, chief?
LONGO: Well, I'll tell you, what I walked away from Monday night after our community discussion and my conversations with Steve is that they want the criteria to be something that's more meaningful, that's more compelling, in his words, not only from the initial or the follow-up approach, but the initial approach. And we're looking at that criteria. We're also looking at what to do with the buckle swab when it comes back, as in elimination. Do we destroy it?
HEMMER: So if those changes are made, Steve, would you agree to it then or not?
TURNER: I think, actually, those changes that the chief just suggested are important, but they're not the only changes we need to take a look at. I think when the Charlottesville police approach men for this sample, I think, one, they need to tell them that you know what, you don't have to give us a sample. I think, two, they need to say -- the Charlottesville police, when a person says no, they need to accept no. No for the Charlottesville police seems to mean this is where we're going to start negotiating.
HEMMER: Hmm.
TURNER: And that needs to change.
HEMMER: Steven, if I could, in a few seconds here, if someone came to you and said hey, you're just being a bad citizen, what would you say?
TURNER: You know, I've heard that before. I've heard that for the past nine months, you know, if you have nothing to hide, you should probably submit to the test. But the way I look at it, because I have nothing to hide, I don't have to submit to the test.
HEMMER: Thanks...
TURNER: I think I'm being a great citizen.
HEMMER: Yes.
Listen, thanks for talking and we're out of time.
TURNER: Thank you.
HEMMER: We can talk more.
Steven Turner, thanks.
Chief Longo, in Charlottesville, Virginia.
LONGO: Thank you.
HEMMER: Now Soledad. O'BRIEN: Well, millions of Americans are in a race against time today as they struggle to get their tax returns in the mail before midnight tonight. And if you live in the State of Massachusetts, there's a new reason to beware this tax day. It's just one of a few states using new technology to make sure that you pay what you owe. But some believe it goes too far, as we hear from CNN's Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's like a command center -- multiple monitors fed by powerful computers, spinning, blinking and spitting out data. The Department of Revenue in Massachusetts has a new way of harvesting existing information to track down tax cheats, individuals and businesses.
ALAN LEBOVIDGE, MASSACHUSETTS REVENUE COMMISSIONER: What the computers allow us to do is to integrate the information, bring it all together and from all various sources, come up with a kind of a structure of what the taxpayer looks like, calculate the tax and then send them a bill.
LOTHIAN: A Jaguar owner's declared income didn't match his expensive taste. A man who worked in state and failed to file state income taxes owed $33,000. And a resident bought a multi-million dollar Renaissance painting overseas but didn't pay the five percent use tax, all finally paid.
The data warehouse has information from the IRS, U.S. Customs, Registry of Motor Vehicles and private agencies.
(on camera): Officials say since this system became fully operational, they've been able to track down and recover a million dollars a week.
(voice-over): So far, more than $60 million collected.
But some privacy advocates are concerned.
CHRIS HOOFNAGLE, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFORMATION CENTER: The risk here is that states have increasing power, through the use of personal information, for law enforcement or tax revenue purposes.
LOTHIAN: And he says it's happening without proper regulations.
HOOFNAGLE: We have to look at the corresponding harm to individuals' rights.
LEBOVIDGE: If you're paying your taxes, you don't have to worry.
LOTHIAN: Even as workers and machines process tax filings, computers continue hunting for more dollars, a benefit to the state, but critics ask, at what cost?
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: By the way, the system has also found some folks who are owed some money. It's cost the Massachusetts Department of Revenue some $7 million in refunds -- Bill.
HEMMER: In a moment here, much more on the new threats made in that audiotape said to be from Osama bin Laden.
We'll get to that in a moment here.
Also, more than 20,000 U.S. troops getting some tough news back in Iraq. They will stay in that country for at least three more months.
Back in a moment here. Twenty-four past the hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right, back to Jack.
The Question of the Day -- good morning.
CAFFERTY: The Question of the Day is all about Osama bin Laden, Bill, the new audiotape saying that the al Qaeda operative and leader is offering European nations a truce if they will stop attacking Muslims. Yesterday, CIA Director George Tenet told the 9/11 Commission it will take another five years to have the intelligence necessary to protect against another al Qaeda attack in this country.
The question this morning is how important is it to get bin Laden?
D.W. in Crescent City, California says: "It's too late now. Ten years ago, it would have made a difference. Now his movement of anti- American/Israel/Islamic fundamentalism has metastasized all over the world into independent growths."
Mark in Washington, D.C.: "Maybe just a possibility -- had we sent 100,000 troops that are currently in Iraq to Afghanistan, we could have found bin Laden long ago and those troops would be home, you think?"
Bob in Conyers, Georgia: "It's only important if Bush wants to be reelected. It's only important if America is to be taken seriously and not to be considered a toothless, impotent, arthritic lion. He may only be a symbol, but symbols such as the swastika, skull and crossbones, the cross, the Star of David, all have meaning."
And Peggy weighs in from California with this: "I think it's more important to get bin Laden than anything else this country has to worry about. Our military should have blown up any suspected hiding place of bin Laden. Anyone or any country involved in aiding this murderer should be annihilated. And that's not this woman's menopause talking."
O'BRIEN: We hear you, sister.
HEMMER: From the heart.
CAFFERTY: She got to the end of that and said wooh, I'd better temper this a little bit.
O'BRIEN: Exactly.
HEMMER: Expect to hear a lot of conversation about that second e-mail today, too.
CAFFERTY: About this -- which one?
O'BRIEN: No question.
HEMMER: The groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan.
O'BRIEN: Could the world have been better served...
HEMMER: The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is still there.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: ... in Afghanistan.
HEMMER: You're going to have a lot of fallout from that throughout the day today.
CAFFERTY: Yes. Hello?
HEMMER: Let's get a break here.
In a moment here, political advice for both the president and Senator John Kerry from a one time politician herself, ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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