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American Morning

In Iraq, Issue of Security, Spanish Forces;

Aired April 19, 2004 - 08:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
The American in charge of Iraq gives a grim assessment of security. Iraqis, he says, can't handle it.

Is there a plan in the works for Saudi Arabia to lower gas prices? Trying to sway the election this November, part of the fallout from a new book about the White House plan for war.

And look what's hiding in the bushes in southern California. The mountain lions still closer than you might think.

All ahead this morning here on AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

Welcome back, everybody.

Other stories that we're following this morning, what happens now in the Middle East after Israel kills another leader of Hamas? Palestinians now vowing revenge. The U.S. is expressing concern. We're going to talk about the situation there with a former U.S. ambassador to Israel, Martin Indyk.

HEMMER: Also, is it possible that much of what we've been told about the health risks about getting a suntan is actually wrong? We'll hear from a doctor today who says laying out is not so bad after all.

Also, Sanjay's take on that this hour here.

O'BRIEN: That's interesting.

HEMMER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Jack Cafferty with us -- hello.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Can you spell melanoma? I mean you've got to be careful.

O'BRIEN: Ooh...

CAFFERTY: Sun can be...

(CROSSTALK)

CAFFERTY: Yes, sun damage.

O'BRIEN: Well, it sounds like he's -- the doctor's saying it's not so...

HEMMER: He makes a minor point about, you know, the moderation, too. But it's interesting to see what he comes up with about getting Vitamin D as a human.

What's up?

CAFFERTY: Not very much.

Coming up in the Cafferty File, the latest cosmetic surgery. Call it voice-o-suction.

And we'll tell you about one very well known university that costs tens of thousands of dollars to attend where they're rearranging the class schedule so the little dears that go there can get enough sleep.

O'BRIEN: Oh, thank goodness.

CAFFERTY: You ain't going to believe it.

HEMMER: I smell a blue devil.

CAFFERTY: If I was a parent writing checks to that place, I would be so furious.

HEMMER: Ain't that the truth?

CAFFERTY: Yes.

HEMMER: Yes.

CAFFERTY: We'll tell you about it later.

O'BRIEN: I think that's sort of nice.

HEMMER: Inside joke.

O'BRIEN: It's hard to make an eight o'clock class.

CAFFERTY: Oh, Jesus. Well, you come here at five in the morning. What are you talking about?

O'BRIEN: I know, but it's...

CAFFERTY: Huh?

HEMMER: 4:45.

O'BRIEN: Actually, four.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: But whatever.

All right, looking forward to that, Jack.

Thanks.

Top stories now, the wife of an American who was abducted in Iraq is praying for his release. Thomas Hamill was kidnapped 10 days ago. Speaking earlier here on AMERICAN MORNING, Kellie Hamill described her husband as someone who wants to help others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLIE HAMILL, WIFE OF IRAQ HOSTAGE: He's a very family oriented man. He's kind, gentle, loving, very supportive to his family. He'll do anything for us, for his friends. You know, he would do anything for anyone if he could.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: The Reverend Jesse Jackson is calling on Iraqi religious leaders to release Hamill. He says the American came to Iraq to serve the people there, not to wage war.

President Bush is reportedly planning to boost international peacekeeping forces. According to the "Washington Post," the president has committed about $660 million over the next five years to the Global Peace Operatives. The fund would provide training and equipment and logistical support in countries willing to help with peace operations. The campaign is aimed at Africa, but includes assistance for Asia, Latin America and Europe.

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry says President Bush has misled his own administration about the war in Iraq. Speaking on NBC's "Meet The Press" yesterday, Senator Kerry said that as president he would draw international support to the war in Iraq. The Bush campaign chairman says Senator Kerry's comments show his refusal to recognize the threat of terrorism.

NASA is slated to launch a probe today that will test Albert Einstein's theory of relativity. Liftoff of a Delta 2 rocket this afternoon will carry the Gravity Probe B satellite into space. The probe will try to show whether large bodies like the earth actually twist or warp both time and space as they rotate.

And in baseball, Sammy Sosa is now the Chicago Cubs' all time home run leader. He hit number 513 against the Reds yesterday, moving past Ernie Banks to hold the team's home run record.

Will you stop with the sound effects, Mr. Hemmer?

Sosa now has 543 career homers, which places him number 10 on baseball's elite list of hitters.

HEMMER: You don't like that? O'BRIEN: It's just unnerving while you're trying to read.

HEMMER: Participatory journalism.

You know, Sosa -- they lost the game, by the way. The Reds took two of three over the weekend, just to put that plug in for Cincinnati. The other thing, Barry Bonds is on fire.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

HEMMER: Seven home runs already for the Giants' slugger.

O'BRIEN: It's going to be a good year for him.

HEMMER: So watch him this year, yes.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: We want to get back to Iraq right now. The issue of security and Spanish forces very much the issues at hand today.

To the Pentagon and Barbara Starr, tracking all this -- Barbara, good morning there.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

Well, let's bring everyone up to date on some developments. Over the weekend, heavy fighting in western Iraq near the Syrian border. Five U.S. Marines killed. They were in a mission to try and shut down some new supply lines, rat lines, if you will, that the U.S. military has discovered coming out of Syria. No word on whether those supply lines for the insurgents are officially sanctioned by Damascus, but nonetheless, the U.S. pressing the Syrians to try and get more control over their border and stop those supply lines to the insurgents. A senior official here saying again today that they know there are terrorist organizations headquartered in Damascus and they want them shut down.

Now, all of this comes as Ambassador Paul Bremer over the weekend sent another very strong message that because of the recent violence, because of the insurgency, everyone now realizes, of course, that U.S. forces will remain in Iraq for some time to come.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. PAUL BREMER, U.S./IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATOR: It is clear that the Iraqi forces will not be able, on their own, to deal with these threats by June 30, when an Iraqi government assumes sovereignty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Coalition officials saying, however, that they will be able to work around the now formal announcement that Spain will withdraw its 1,400 troops from Iraq. They know that that is coming. They say they will be able to work around it -- Bill. HEMMER: Also, what's the status of Private First Class Maupin, Barbara?

STARR: Indeed, Bill, the Pentagon now again today saying officially he is a hostage, not a POW, not a prisoner of war, because he is not being held by any recognized power, underscoring there will be no negotiations for his release, but that there is a very private feeling, a hope that some Iraqi clerics will be able to get involved in this situation -- Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Barbara Starr from the Pentagon, thanks for that -- Soledad now.

O'BRIEN: The assassination of Hamas leader Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi came just three days after President Bush met with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Rantisi was killed on Saturday by Israeli missiles. He's the second Hamas leader to be killed in a month. Furious Palestinians blamed President Bush for giving Prime Minister Sharon the green light. The U.S. insists that Israel has the right to defend itself.

Former U.S. ambassador to Israel, Martin Indyk, joins us this morning.

Nice to see you, sir.

Thanks for coming in.

I know you literally two hours ago got back from the region, so we certainly appreciate your joining us.

The Palestinians say what has happened now is only going to add fuel to the fire, that they are further away from peace than ever before. The Israelis defend the strike as a protective move. They say that is their right.

Where do you stand on this?

MARTIN INDYK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Well, I think it's actually important to see it in the context of Prime Minister Sharon's plan to withdraw and evacuate all the settlements from Gaza. In that context, the Israelis want to make sure that Hamas is weakened, that Hamas cannot claim that this is a victory for violence and terrorism. And so we're going to see now, I think, a sustained campaign against Hamas to weaken it so that Sharon, on the one hand, can show domestically, as he's trying to get this vote from the Likud Party, that he's tough on terror, he's not withdrawing in the face of it. And, on the other hand, weaken Hamas so that the more moderate forces in Gaza will be able to take control when Israel withdraws.

O'BRIEN: With these two high profile killings, then, how weakened, how much more weakened do you think Hamas is than, say, one month ago?

INDYK: Well, it's taken a body blow. There's no doubt that the taking out of these two leaders has affected it. It comes in the context of the Saudis finally cutting off funding to Hamas. They're finding themselves in quite difficult financial straits. They actually had a fundraising effort in very poor Gaza and only managed to raise $150,000. They claimed they raised $3 million, but that is not true.

So they're, they are certainly in a situation where while they're screaming for revenge, they're finding themselves under very heavy pressure and they're beginning to negotiate with these more moderate nationalist forces in Gaza about a power sharing arrangement when Israel withdraws, which is another indication that they don't feel that they are in a position to take control.

O'BRIEN: After the assassination of Ahmed Yassin, we heard from Hamas that there would be an earth shaking response. And many people sort of held their breaths waiting for the next suicide bombing or something horrible to happen. It didn't happen.

Is that an indication, do you think, that either Hamas has been so weakened that they can't pull off what they threatened or -- and then I guess, thusly, that Israel's steps have been the right thing to do because it's working, that that strategy is working?

INDYK: Well, you know, we'll wait for the next news bulletin. You know, there's no doubt that Hamas is trying to pull off some kind of terrorist spectacular, perhaps a series of simultaneous suicide bombings to show that they're still able to take revenge.

But they find it much more difficult, partly because they can't operate out of Gaza. There's a fence around Gaza. The fence in the West Bank is being constructed in a way that makes it difficult for them to operate from the northern West Bank, there they have before. And the Israelis are on top of them. They stopped 10 suicide attacks over this Passover Easter break.

So I think that Hamas finds itself in a situation where it's under pressure to show that it's still operational, but it's much more difficult for it to do. That doesn't mean we're not going to see Hamas attacks and Israeli responses, more targeted killings. And I think the closer we get to a withdrawal of Israeli forces and settlements from Gaza, there will be an up tick in this -- these kinds of violent exchanges, as both sides try to show that they are, in fact, the stronger as Israel withdraws.

O'BRIEN: Hamas now, for the second time in a month, has picked a new leader. They say they won't reveal the identity. Israel says we know who it is and we've already targeted that person.

One, do you think that that's true, that Israel knows who this is and that person is already targeted? And do you have someone who you -- or a handful of people who you would say are the most likely choices to be the leaders of Hamas right now?

INDYK: I don't know whether Israel knows. I think that there are only a few people in that kind of situation in Gaza who could take leadership control from (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Aniya (ph), for instance, is probably the most likely. But there's no question that the Israelis have made it clear that they are going to target all of the leadership, the leadership, the general leadership is known. And that basically the Israelis -- to come back to an earlier question that you asked -- is the Israelis figure that these people are sending young people to die in suicide attacks to kill other young people, but they don't want to die themselves. So that by targeting them directly, they feel that they're going to have a deterrent effect eventually on the willingness of these leaders to continue these terrorist attacks.

O'BRIEN: Well, as we end many of these segments, we will see, is sort of the final word on that.

INDYK: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Martin Indyk, nice to have you.

INDYK: Thank you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Thanks so much.

And thanks for hopping off a plane and coming to talk to us first.

INDYK: My pleasure.

O'BRIEN: We certainly appreciate it.

INDYK: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, in a moment here, a new book is out claiming President Bush's decision to go to war with Iraq was based on faulty information, may have been unconstitutional and that a Middle East government knew about it before the secretary of state. Inside Bob Woodward's book with David Gergen in a moment here on that -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Also, rioting breaks out near the campus of Iowa State University. Look at these pictures. We've got more on this story just ahead.

HEMMER: Also, what are your chances of survival if your midsized car gets hit broadside by an SUV? A new study is out. We'll have it for you, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Allegations of a deep rift between the vice president, Dick Cheney, and the secretary of state, Colin Powell; assurances of a "slam dunk case" that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction from the CIA director, George Tenet; also a promise from Saudi Arabia to increase oil production next fall. This in the run up to this year's election. They're all part of a new book from "Washington Post" reporter Bob Woodward. From Massachusetts to talk about "Plan of Attack," former White House adviser David Gergen, editor-at-large of "U.S. News & World Report."

Welcome back here to AMERICAN MORNING.

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Good morning, Bill.

Thank you.

HEMMER: We've got a lot to chew on here.

Your initial reaction to what you're hearing so far?

GERGEN: The book seems to confirm the basic story line we've heard all along, and that was there were a group of people, the president included, and around the president, who were determined to go to war regardless of what new evidence or arguments might be made. But it also offers new details and important details that are also disturbing details. Examples, that the administration intentionally kept Congress in the dark and diverted money into preparing for the war in Iraq, in violation of what the standard rules of the game have been with the president and Congress; that the president marginalized Secretary of State Powell, that he wasn't even told about this decision to go to war until after the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. was told.

Now, Condi Rice has denied that in her conversations yesterday.

This book also -- Bob Woodward, in this book, portrays a president who pays more attention to god than to the constitution. And Bob is, in his interview on "60 Minutes," seemed to raise a variety of questions about does the president think he's somehow a vessel of god and is he really, has he really sort of trampled on the constitution and just went out to war?

HEMMER: Let me try and break some of this down.

GERGEN: Sure.

HEMMER: First of all, does it paint the president in a bad light or is it George Tenet who comes in and says hey, it's a slam dunk case, you go to war in Iraq, it's over?

GERGEN: Well, neither emerges as a -- as the epitome of sort of prudence and reason. George Tenet is portrayed as someone who told the president the case against Iraq on weapons of mass destruction is a slam dunk, while he told associates privately this is not ironclad and he expressed some reservations about the evidence. It's not clear -- I'm sure George Tenet can defend himself on that.

It does portray a president who is, as we heard in the Richard Clarke book, is determined to go against Iraq and doesn't even want to hear the arguments from his secretary of state, who has clear and distinct reservations. And now we're reading in the "New York Times" today that the Powell portrayal here and the way a variety of people who have talked to Bob Woodward about Colin Powell's views and the fact that he was so -- had so many reservations -- is causing a rift and deepening the rift in the administration.

HEMMER: Right. And there was an article on Saturday that talked about perhaps Colin Powell was the one, the source for the information here, to try and put the record straight for how he felt about the war with Iraq.

Just running out a little bit of time here.

GERGEN: Sure.

HEMMER: We just want to play a small piece from last night on "60 Minutes" with Bob Woodward, talking about the Saudi oil connection.

Listen here and we talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM CBS' "60 MINUTES")

MIKE WALLACE, HOST: Oil prices are at an all time high.

BOB WOODWARD, "WASHINGTON POST": They're high and they could go down very quickly. That's the Saudi pledge, certainly over the summer or as we get closer to the election, they could increase production several million barrels a day and the price would drop significantly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Does the world work that way?

GERGEN: Yes, the world does work that way and we've seen this before. It's one of the reasons that -- listen, we have helped the Saudis in a variety of ways and they have helped us. They've been a very moderate influencing power. And, yes, while I don't know the specifics of this situation, I can just tell you that in the past there have been efforts by the Saudis to lower prices in ways that help American administrations.

HEMMER: If I could, in the 15 seconds left, you were going to say something about Colin Powell.

What is your take right now on his position, this rift, etc.?

GERGEN: Well, it's a surprise to me that this administration is attacking Colin Powell for telling the truth while it's not denying that General Franks lied to the country when he had been asked by the president to develop a war plan for Iraq and went on public television and said no, he wasn't doing that. But nobody seems to be concerned about that. They seem much more concerned about Powell.

And, in addition to this, Bob Woodward was given enormous access by the administration. They allowed him to talk to 75 different people. He has recordings of that, you know what I'm saying? And CBS reviewed them before they went on the "60 Minutes" show last night. So I think it's -- I think Colin Powell, if he's going to serve as a truth teller in the administration, deserves to have the truth out in the book if everybody else is going to tell their side of the story.

HEMMER: David Gergen, thanks for talking.

GERGEN: Thanks, Bill.

HEMMER: Watertown, Massachusetts this morning there.

Appreciate your time yet again here on AMERICAN MORNING.

GERGEN: Thank you.

HEMMER: Later tonight, perhaps more questions. Bob Woodward is the guest on "Larry King Live." More answers, too. Nine o'clock Eastern time, six on the West Coast, only here on CNN in prime time -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: And we've got this news just into CNN.

The chairman and CEO of McDonald's, Jim Cantalupo, is dead, apparently of a heart attack. This word is coming according to the Associated Press and Reuters, as well, from McDonald's Corporation. The implications of this, the death of Jim Cantalupo, the CEO and chairman of McDonald's, we will discuss with Andy Serwer straight ahead.

Stay with us everybody.

Also, let's just move on to our next story. Look at this. A thousand college students rioting early Sunday near Iowa State University. That taking place in Ames. Unrest broke out during the annual Veishea Festival. It continued for five hours, forcing police to fire tear gas on the crowd. Extensive damage was done to businesses near the college campus. The festival has banned alcohol since a murder in 1998. Well, now college officials are thinking about just canceling the festival altogether.

HEMMER: Still to come here on AMERICAN MORNING, a very deadly month in Iraq and U.S. troops will not be able to get away from the violence any time soon. Back there in a moment.

Also, midsized cars failed the test when they stack up against SUVs. The results are out. We'll get to it, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: When an SUV broadsides a midsized sedan, the results, of course, can be deadly. The insurance industry has just finished testing such crashes.

And Kathleen Koch is live for us in Ruckersville, Virginia with their findings -- good morning to you, Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

It's simply a matter of physics. In a side impact crash, there is no hood, no engine, no bumper to absorb the force of the crash. And these tests found that when there is a dramatic difference in size, say SUV versus midsized car, then you're really in trouble.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH (voice-over): It's the same result in test after test -- dummies' heads dealt lethal blows. It's the first time the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has crashed a barrier the size and shape of an SUV or light truck into a car.

ADRIAN LUND, INSURANCE INSTITUTE FOR HIGHWAY SAFETY: What consumers are afraid of is true. Most of the vehicles do poorly in this kind of test. Ten of the 13 vehicles we tested did not do well.

KOCH: Failing grades to 10 midsized vehicles. Only two of those tested, the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord, got good ratings. The Chevrolet Malibu was rated acceptable.

The key for all three, a strong vehicle compartment and a side air bag upgrade, especially air bags that protect the head. But that's no guarantee. One failing vehicle, the Saturn L, had a side air bag, but it was too short.

LUND: If it had been deeper and covered more of the window, then the head would have stayed in contact with it.

KOCH: Nearly 10,000 people die every year in side crashes, 60 percent from head injuries. But side impact air bags are standard equipment in only one quarter of cars. And the federal government has never tested cars using an SUV sized barrier. Its barrier hits below the window. It now plans to propose tougher testing standards next month.

JEFFREY RUNGE, NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION: We have declared an emergency to upgrade this side impact standard to protect people in vehicles when they're struck in the side.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH: Auto makers, for their part, say it's not fair to judge a car based on just one crash test. And it is important to point out that all of these vehicles passed the federal government's side impact crash test. Still, auto makers have agreed that by 2007, they will make these head protection side air bags standard in all cars -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Kathleen Koch for us this morning.

Kathleen, thanks -- Bill.

HEMMER: Back with Jack now and the Question of the Day -- hello, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Let me see if I understand this.

HEMMER: OK.

CAFFERTY: If a bigger car hits a smaller car, the smaller car will probably have -- if a bus runs over a bicycle, then -- I mean and the insurance company did the study...

HEMMER: Yes.

CAFFERTY: So the cost of the study will be reflected in your next premium notice.

O'BRIEN: But as Kathleen ended by saying...

CAFFERTY: What a wonderful thing.

O'BRIEN: ... they're going to try to bolster the head side of the midsized...

HEMMER: That's the other thing, yes.

O'BRIEN: ... car so they can save lives.

HEMMER: Safety in the future.

CAFFERTY: But couldn't you do that without having a study? Couldn't you look at a big car and a little car and say well, maybe we need to bulk up the little car so if it gets hit by the big car it doesn't get...

HEMMER: Ladies and gentlemen, Jack Cafferty.

CAFFERTY: I'd love to talk more, but I've got to go on here. I'm very busy.

The negotiations going on in Fallujah and Najaf may soon be over. Paul Bremer, America's top guy over there, said that the insurgents have to be dealt with, that talks are going nowhere.

The question is should we negotiate with the insurgents or is that a mistake?

Here are the e-mails.

"Why haven't we taken a page out of Israel's book on how to deal with terrorists? It's always been a mystery to me. They have figured it out a long time ago. Anyone who thinks you can negotiate with a terrorist is still trying to negotiate with a 2-year-old foaming at the mouth while throwing a tantrum."

That's something Soledad probably knows a little about and will soon know much more about.

Rex in Fort Wayne, Indiana: "To say the United States should take lessons from Israel in how to deal with terrorism is probably the most misguided statement I have heard in my life. Everything Israel has done has only led to an escalation of terrorism in their land. Clearly, whatever they're doing is not in their best interests."

And Michael in Huron, South Dakota: "Of course it's a mistake. You don't negotiate with cancer, you remove it. Negotiate with one of these people and you'll never be rid of them."

Am@cnn.com.

O'BRIEN: Interesting responses.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

Let's talk about the insurance test some more.

O'BRIEN: It makes sense to me. I don't understand what the problem is that you don't understand it.

CAFFERTY: Well, I do understand it.

O'BRIEN: I believe he's speechless for a moment.

CAFFERTY: No, no.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to take that opportunity...

CAFFERTY: It's common sense.

O'BRIEN: ... to read my tease.

HEMMER: I'm not getting in between you two.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, we reported about this last week, a habitual sexual predator, a man who said he had more than 200 victims who was set free less than a month ago because of a legal loophole, well, he is back behind bars. Today we're going to tell you why, as AMERICAN MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 19, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
The American in charge of Iraq gives a grim assessment of security. Iraqis, he says, can't handle it.

Is there a plan in the works for Saudi Arabia to lower gas prices? Trying to sway the election this November, part of the fallout from a new book about the White House plan for war.

And look what's hiding in the bushes in southern California. The mountain lions still closer than you might think.

All ahead this morning here on AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

Welcome back, everybody.

Other stories that we're following this morning, what happens now in the Middle East after Israel kills another leader of Hamas? Palestinians now vowing revenge. The U.S. is expressing concern. We're going to talk about the situation there with a former U.S. ambassador to Israel, Martin Indyk.

HEMMER: Also, is it possible that much of what we've been told about the health risks about getting a suntan is actually wrong? We'll hear from a doctor today who says laying out is not so bad after all.

Also, Sanjay's take on that this hour here.

O'BRIEN: That's interesting.

HEMMER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Jack Cafferty with us -- hello.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Can you spell melanoma? I mean you've got to be careful.

O'BRIEN: Ooh...

CAFFERTY: Sun can be...

(CROSSTALK)

CAFFERTY: Yes, sun damage.

O'BRIEN: Well, it sounds like he's -- the doctor's saying it's not so...

HEMMER: He makes a minor point about, you know, the moderation, too. But it's interesting to see what he comes up with about getting Vitamin D as a human.

What's up?

CAFFERTY: Not very much.

Coming up in the Cafferty File, the latest cosmetic surgery. Call it voice-o-suction.

And we'll tell you about one very well known university that costs tens of thousands of dollars to attend where they're rearranging the class schedule so the little dears that go there can get enough sleep.

O'BRIEN: Oh, thank goodness.

CAFFERTY: You ain't going to believe it.

HEMMER: I smell a blue devil.

CAFFERTY: If I was a parent writing checks to that place, I would be so furious.

HEMMER: Ain't that the truth?

CAFFERTY: Yes.

HEMMER: Yes.

CAFFERTY: We'll tell you about it later.

O'BRIEN: I think that's sort of nice.

HEMMER: Inside joke.

O'BRIEN: It's hard to make an eight o'clock class.

CAFFERTY: Oh, Jesus. Well, you come here at five in the morning. What are you talking about?

O'BRIEN: I know, but it's...

CAFFERTY: Huh?

HEMMER: 4:45.

O'BRIEN: Actually, four.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

O'BRIEN: But whatever.

All right, looking forward to that, Jack.

Thanks.

Top stories now, the wife of an American who was abducted in Iraq is praying for his release. Thomas Hamill was kidnapped 10 days ago. Speaking earlier here on AMERICAN MORNING, Kellie Hamill described her husband as someone who wants to help others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLIE HAMILL, WIFE OF IRAQ HOSTAGE: He's a very family oriented man. He's kind, gentle, loving, very supportive to his family. He'll do anything for us, for his friends. You know, he would do anything for anyone if he could.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: The Reverend Jesse Jackson is calling on Iraqi religious leaders to release Hamill. He says the American came to Iraq to serve the people there, not to wage war.

President Bush is reportedly planning to boost international peacekeeping forces. According to the "Washington Post," the president has committed about $660 million over the next five years to the Global Peace Operatives. The fund would provide training and equipment and logistical support in countries willing to help with peace operations. The campaign is aimed at Africa, but includes assistance for Asia, Latin America and Europe.

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry says President Bush has misled his own administration about the war in Iraq. Speaking on NBC's "Meet The Press" yesterday, Senator Kerry said that as president he would draw international support to the war in Iraq. The Bush campaign chairman says Senator Kerry's comments show his refusal to recognize the threat of terrorism.

NASA is slated to launch a probe today that will test Albert Einstein's theory of relativity. Liftoff of a Delta 2 rocket this afternoon will carry the Gravity Probe B satellite into space. The probe will try to show whether large bodies like the earth actually twist or warp both time and space as they rotate.

And in baseball, Sammy Sosa is now the Chicago Cubs' all time home run leader. He hit number 513 against the Reds yesterday, moving past Ernie Banks to hold the team's home run record.

Will you stop with the sound effects, Mr. Hemmer?

Sosa now has 543 career homers, which places him number 10 on baseball's elite list of hitters.

HEMMER: You don't like that? O'BRIEN: It's just unnerving while you're trying to read.

HEMMER: Participatory journalism.

You know, Sosa -- they lost the game, by the way. The Reds took two of three over the weekend, just to put that plug in for Cincinnati. The other thing, Barry Bonds is on fire.

O'BRIEN: Yes.

HEMMER: Seven home runs already for the Giants' slugger.

O'BRIEN: It's going to be a good year for him.

HEMMER: So watch him this year, yes.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: We want to get back to Iraq right now. The issue of security and Spanish forces very much the issues at hand today.

To the Pentagon and Barbara Starr, tracking all this -- Barbara, good morning there.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

Well, let's bring everyone up to date on some developments. Over the weekend, heavy fighting in western Iraq near the Syrian border. Five U.S. Marines killed. They were in a mission to try and shut down some new supply lines, rat lines, if you will, that the U.S. military has discovered coming out of Syria. No word on whether those supply lines for the insurgents are officially sanctioned by Damascus, but nonetheless, the U.S. pressing the Syrians to try and get more control over their border and stop those supply lines to the insurgents. A senior official here saying again today that they know there are terrorist organizations headquartered in Damascus and they want them shut down.

Now, all of this comes as Ambassador Paul Bremer over the weekend sent another very strong message that because of the recent violence, because of the insurgency, everyone now realizes, of course, that U.S. forces will remain in Iraq for some time to come.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. PAUL BREMER, U.S./IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATOR: It is clear that the Iraqi forces will not be able, on their own, to deal with these threats by June 30, when an Iraqi government assumes sovereignty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Coalition officials saying, however, that they will be able to work around the now formal announcement that Spain will withdraw its 1,400 troops from Iraq. They know that that is coming. They say they will be able to work around it -- Bill. HEMMER: Also, what's the status of Private First Class Maupin, Barbara?

STARR: Indeed, Bill, the Pentagon now again today saying officially he is a hostage, not a POW, not a prisoner of war, because he is not being held by any recognized power, underscoring there will be no negotiations for his release, but that there is a very private feeling, a hope that some Iraqi clerics will be able to get involved in this situation -- Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Barbara Starr from the Pentagon, thanks for that -- Soledad now.

O'BRIEN: The assassination of Hamas leader Abdel Aziz al-Rantisi came just three days after President Bush met with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Rantisi was killed on Saturday by Israeli missiles. He's the second Hamas leader to be killed in a month. Furious Palestinians blamed President Bush for giving Prime Minister Sharon the green light. The U.S. insists that Israel has the right to defend itself.

Former U.S. ambassador to Israel, Martin Indyk, joins us this morning.

Nice to see you, sir.

Thanks for coming in.

I know you literally two hours ago got back from the region, so we certainly appreciate your joining us.

The Palestinians say what has happened now is only going to add fuel to the fire, that they are further away from peace than ever before. The Israelis defend the strike as a protective move. They say that is their right.

Where do you stand on this?

MARTIN INDYK, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL: Well, I think it's actually important to see it in the context of Prime Minister Sharon's plan to withdraw and evacuate all the settlements from Gaza. In that context, the Israelis want to make sure that Hamas is weakened, that Hamas cannot claim that this is a victory for violence and terrorism. And so we're going to see now, I think, a sustained campaign against Hamas to weaken it so that Sharon, on the one hand, can show domestically, as he's trying to get this vote from the Likud Party, that he's tough on terror, he's not withdrawing in the face of it. And, on the other hand, weaken Hamas so that the more moderate forces in Gaza will be able to take control when Israel withdraws.

O'BRIEN: With these two high profile killings, then, how weakened, how much more weakened do you think Hamas is than, say, one month ago?

INDYK: Well, it's taken a body blow. There's no doubt that the taking out of these two leaders has affected it. It comes in the context of the Saudis finally cutting off funding to Hamas. They're finding themselves in quite difficult financial straits. They actually had a fundraising effort in very poor Gaza and only managed to raise $150,000. They claimed they raised $3 million, but that is not true.

So they're, they are certainly in a situation where while they're screaming for revenge, they're finding themselves under very heavy pressure and they're beginning to negotiate with these more moderate nationalist forces in Gaza about a power sharing arrangement when Israel withdraws, which is another indication that they don't feel that they are in a position to take control.

O'BRIEN: After the assassination of Ahmed Yassin, we heard from Hamas that there would be an earth shaking response. And many people sort of held their breaths waiting for the next suicide bombing or something horrible to happen. It didn't happen.

Is that an indication, do you think, that either Hamas has been so weakened that they can't pull off what they threatened or -- and then I guess, thusly, that Israel's steps have been the right thing to do because it's working, that that strategy is working?

INDYK: Well, you know, we'll wait for the next news bulletin. You know, there's no doubt that Hamas is trying to pull off some kind of terrorist spectacular, perhaps a series of simultaneous suicide bombings to show that they're still able to take revenge.

But they find it much more difficult, partly because they can't operate out of Gaza. There's a fence around Gaza. The fence in the West Bank is being constructed in a way that makes it difficult for them to operate from the northern West Bank, there they have before. And the Israelis are on top of them. They stopped 10 suicide attacks over this Passover Easter break.

So I think that Hamas finds itself in a situation where it's under pressure to show that it's still operational, but it's much more difficult for it to do. That doesn't mean we're not going to see Hamas attacks and Israeli responses, more targeted killings. And I think the closer we get to a withdrawal of Israeli forces and settlements from Gaza, there will be an up tick in this -- these kinds of violent exchanges, as both sides try to show that they are, in fact, the stronger as Israel withdraws.

O'BRIEN: Hamas now, for the second time in a month, has picked a new leader. They say they won't reveal the identity. Israel says we know who it is and we've already targeted that person.

One, do you think that that's true, that Israel knows who this is and that person is already targeted? And do you have someone who you -- or a handful of people who you would say are the most likely choices to be the leaders of Hamas right now?

INDYK: I don't know whether Israel knows. I think that there are only a few people in that kind of situation in Gaza who could take leadership control from (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Aniya (ph), for instance, is probably the most likely. But there's no question that the Israelis have made it clear that they are going to target all of the leadership, the leadership, the general leadership is known. And that basically the Israelis -- to come back to an earlier question that you asked -- is the Israelis figure that these people are sending young people to die in suicide attacks to kill other young people, but they don't want to die themselves. So that by targeting them directly, they feel that they're going to have a deterrent effect eventually on the willingness of these leaders to continue these terrorist attacks.

O'BRIEN: Well, as we end many of these segments, we will see, is sort of the final word on that.

INDYK: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Martin Indyk, nice to have you.

INDYK: Thank you, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Thanks so much.

And thanks for hopping off a plane and coming to talk to us first.

INDYK: My pleasure.

O'BRIEN: We certainly appreciate it.

INDYK: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill.

HEMMER: Soledad, in a moment here, a new book is out claiming President Bush's decision to go to war with Iraq was based on faulty information, may have been unconstitutional and that a Middle East government knew about it before the secretary of state. Inside Bob Woodward's book with David Gergen in a moment here on that -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Also, rioting breaks out near the campus of Iowa State University. Look at these pictures. We've got more on this story just ahead.

HEMMER: Also, what are your chances of survival if your midsized car gets hit broadside by an SUV? A new study is out. We'll have it for you, after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Allegations of a deep rift between the vice president, Dick Cheney, and the secretary of state, Colin Powell; assurances of a "slam dunk case" that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction from the CIA director, George Tenet; also a promise from Saudi Arabia to increase oil production next fall. This in the run up to this year's election. They're all part of a new book from "Washington Post" reporter Bob Woodward. From Massachusetts to talk about "Plan of Attack," former White House adviser David Gergen, editor-at-large of "U.S. News & World Report."

Welcome back here to AMERICAN MORNING.

DAVID GERGEN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Good morning, Bill.

Thank you.

HEMMER: We've got a lot to chew on here.

Your initial reaction to what you're hearing so far?

GERGEN: The book seems to confirm the basic story line we've heard all along, and that was there were a group of people, the president included, and around the president, who were determined to go to war regardless of what new evidence or arguments might be made. But it also offers new details and important details that are also disturbing details. Examples, that the administration intentionally kept Congress in the dark and diverted money into preparing for the war in Iraq, in violation of what the standard rules of the game have been with the president and Congress; that the president marginalized Secretary of State Powell, that he wasn't even told about this decision to go to war until after the Saudi ambassador to the U.S. was told.

Now, Condi Rice has denied that in her conversations yesterday.

This book also -- Bob Woodward, in this book, portrays a president who pays more attention to god than to the constitution. And Bob is, in his interview on "60 Minutes," seemed to raise a variety of questions about does the president think he's somehow a vessel of god and is he really, has he really sort of trampled on the constitution and just went out to war?

HEMMER: Let me try and break some of this down.

GERGEN: Sure.

HEMMER: First of all, does it paint the president in a bad light or is it George Tenet who comes in and says hey, it's a slam dunk case, you go to war in Iraq, it's over?

GERGEN: Well, neither emerges as a -- as the epitome of sort of prudence and reason. George Tenet is portrayed as someone who told the president the case against Iraq on weapons of mass destruction is a slam dunk, while he told associates privately this is not ironclad and he expressed some reservations about the evidence. It's not clear -- I'm sure George Tenet can defend himself on that.

It does portray a president who is, as we heard in the Richard Clarke book, is determined to go against Iraq and doesn't even want to hear the arguments from his secretary of state, who has clear and distinct reservations. And now we're reading in the "New York Times" today that the Powell portrayal here and the way a variety of people who have talked to Bob Woodward about Colin Powell's views and the fact that he was so -- had so many reservations -- is causing a rift and deepening the rift in the administration.

HEMMER: Right. And there was an article on Saturday that talked about perhaps Colin Powell was the one, the source for the information here, to try and put the record straight for how he felt about the war with Iraq.

Just running out a little bit of time here.

GERGEN: Sure.

HEMMER: We just want to play a small piece from last night on "60 Minutes" with Bob Woodward, talking about the Saudi oil connection.

Listen here and we talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM CBS' "60 MINUTES")

MIKE WALLACE, HOST: Oil prices are at an all time high.

BOB WOODWARD, "WASHINGTON POST": They're high and they could go down very quickly. That's the Saudi pledge, certainly over the summer or as we get closer to the election, they could increase production several million barrels a day and the price would drop significantly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Does the world work that way?

GERGEN: Yes, the world does work that way and we've seen this before. It's one of the reasons that -- listen, we have helped the Saudis in a variety of ways and they have helped us. They've been a very moderate influencing power. And, yes, while I don't know the specifics of this situation, I can just tell you that in the past there have been efforts by the Saudis to lower prices in ways that help American administrations.

HEMMER: If I could, in the 15 seconds left, you were going to say something about Colin Powell.

What is your take right now on his position, this rift, etc.?

GERGEN: Well, it's a surprise to me that this administration is attacking Colin Powell for telling the truth while it's not denying that General Franks lied to the country when he had been asked by the president to develop a war plan for Iraq and went on public television and said no, he wasn't doing that. But nobody seems to be concerned about that. They seem much more concerned about Powell.

And, in addition to this, Bob Woodward was given enormous access by the administration. They allowed him to talk to 75 different people. He has recordings of that, you know what I'm saying? And CBS reviewed them before they went on the "60 Minutes" show last night. So I think it's -- I think Colin Powell, if he's going to serve as a truth teller in the administration, deserves to have the truth out in the book if everybody else is going to tell their side of the story.

HEMMER: David Gergen, thanks for talking.

GERGEN: Thanks, Bill.

HEMMER: Watertown, Massachusetts this morning there.

Appreciate your time yet again here on AMERICAN MORNING.

GERGEN: Thank you.

HEMMER: Later tonight, perhaps more questions. Bob Woodward is the guest on "Larry King Live." More answers, too. Nine o'clock Eastern time, six on the West Coast, only here on CNN in prime time -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: And we've got this news just into CNN.

The chairman and CEO of McDonald's, Jim Cantalupo, is dead, apparently of a heart attack. This word is coming according to the Associated Press and Reuters, as well, from McDonald's Corporation. The implications of this, the death of Jim Cantalupo, the CEO and chairman of McDonald's, we will discuss with Andy Serwer straight ahead.

Stay with us everybody.

Also, let's just move on to our next story. Look at this. A thousand college students rioting early Sunday near Iowa State University. That taking place in Ames. Unrest broke out during the annual Veishea Festival. It continued for five hours, forcing police to fire tear gas on the crowd. Extensive damage was done to businesses near the college campus. The festival has banned alcohol since a murder in 1998. Well, now college officials are thinking about just canceling the festival altogether.

HEMMER: Still to come here on AMERICAN MORNING, a very deadly month in Iraq and U.S. troops will not be able to get away from the violence any time soon. Back there in a moment.

Also, midsized cars failed the test when they stack up against SUVs. The results are out. We'll get to it, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: When an SUV broadsides a midsized sedan, the results, of course, can be deadly. The insurance industry has just finished testing such crashes.

And Kathleen Koch is live for us in Ruckersville, Virginia with their findings -- good morning to you, Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

It's simply a matter of physics. In a side impact crash, there is no hood, no engine, no bumper to absorb the force of the crash. And these tests found that when there is a dramatic difference in size, say SUV versus midsized car, then you're really in trouble.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH (voice-over): It's the same result in test after test -- dummies' heads dealt lethal blows. It's the first time the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has crashed a barrier the size and shape of an SUV or light truck into a car.

ADRIAN LUND, INSURANCE INSTITUTE FOR HIGHWAY SAFETY: What consumers are afraid of is true. Most of the vehicles do poorly in this kind of test. Ten of the 13 vehicles we tested did not do well.

KOCH: Failing grades to 10 midsized vehicles. Only two of those tested, the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord, got good ratings. The Chevrolet Malibu was rated acceptable.

The key for all three, a strong vehicle compartment and a side air bag upgrade, especially air bags that protect the head. But that's no guarantee. One failing vehicle, the Saturn L, had a side air bag, but it was too short.

LUND: If it had been deeper and covered more of the window, then the head would have stayed in contact with it.

KOCH: Nearly 10,000 people die every year in side crashes, 60 percent from head injuries. But side impact air bags are standard equipment in only one quarter of cars. And the federal government has never tested cars using an SUV sized barrier. Its barrier hits below the window. It now plans to propose tougher testing standards next month.

JEFFREY RUNGE, NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION: We have declared an emergency to upgrade this side impact standard to protect people in vehicles when they're struck in the side.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOCH: Auto makers, for their part, say it's not fair to judge a car based on just one crash test. And it is important to point out that all of these vehicles passed the federal government's side impact crash test. Still, auto makers have agreed that by 2007, they will make these head protection side air bags standard in all cars -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Kathleen Koch for us this morning.

Kathleen, thanks -- Bill.

HEMMER: Back with Jack now and the Question of the Day -- hello, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Let me see if I understand this.

HEMMER: OK.

CAFFERTY: If a bigger car hits a smaller car, the smaller car will probably have -- if a bus runs over a bicycle, then -- I mean and the insurance company did the study...

HEMMER: Yes.

CAFFERTY: So the cost of the study will be reflected in your next premium notice.

O'BRIEN: But as Kathleen ended by saying...

CAFFERTY: What a wonderful thing.

O'BRIEN: ... they're going to try to bolster the head side of the midsized...

HEMMER: That's the other thing, yes.

O'BRIEN: ... car so they can save lives.

HEMMER: Safety in the future.

CAFFERTY: But couldn't you do that without having a study? Couldn't you look at a big car and a little car and say well, maybe we need to bulk up the little car so if it gets hit by the big car it doesn't get...

HEMMER: Ladies and gentlemen, Jack Cafferty.

CAFFERTY: I'd love to talk more, but I've got to go on here. I'm very busy.

The negotiations going on in Fallujah and Najaf may soon be over. Paul Bremer, America's top guy over there, said that the insurgents have to be dealt with, that talks are going nowhere.

The question is should we negotiate with the insurgents or is that a mistake?

Here are the e-mails.

"Why haven't we taken a page out of Israel's book on how to deal with terrorists? It's always been a mystery to me. They have figured it out a long time ago. Anyone who thinks you can negotiate with a terrorist is still trying to negotiate with a 2-year-old foaming at the mouth while throwing a tantrum."

That's something Soledad probably knows a little about and will soon know much more about.

Rex in Fort Wayne, Indiana: "To say the United States should take lessons from Israel in how to deal with terrorism is probably the most misguided statement I have heard in my life. Everything Israel has done has only led to an escalation of terrorism in their land. Clearly, whatever they're doing is not in their best interests."

And Michael in Huron, South Dakota: "Of course it's a mistake. You don't negotiate with cancer, you remove it. Negotiate with one of these people and you'll never be rid of them."

Am@cnn.com.

O'BRIEN: Interesting responses.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

Let's talk about the insurance test some more.

O'BRIEN: It makes sense to me. I don't understand what the problem is that you don't understand it.

CAFFERTY: Well, I do understand it.

O'BRIEN: I believe he's speechless for a moment.

CAFFERTY: No, no.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to take that opportunity...

CAFFERTY: It's common sense.

O'BRIEN: ... to read my tease.

HEMMER: I'm not getting in between you two.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, we reported about this last week, a habitual sexual predator, a man who said he had more than 200 victims who was set free less than a month ago because of a legal loophole, well, he is back behind bars. Today we're going to tell you why, as AMERICAN MORNING continues.

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