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Kamber & May; 'Paging Dr. Gupta'

Aired April 20, 2004 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The defense in the Jayson Williams manslaughter trial has been allowed to reopen its case after a three- week break. A New Jersey judge made the decision after the prosecution submitted late evidence. Williams is accused of shooting a man and then making the scene look like a suicide. The defense claims that a gun malfunctioned, accidentally firing. A weapons expert is scheduled to testify today.
More evidence that drinking alcohol can cause certain types of cancer. Researchers say that fairly heavy alcohol consumption seems to increase the risk of colon cancer. The increase in risk was highest in people who drank more than 45 grams of California per day. That's the equivalent of about three average sized drinks each and every day. The study is published in "The Annals of Internal Medicine."

And a double surprise during the year of the monkey. In China, An 11-year-old golden monkey mom gave birth to twin monkey boys at Safari Park in Beijing, China. The odds of twin golden monkeys are one in 10,000. We're told the monkey mom and those cute little monkey twin boys are said to be doing very well.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: That's pretty cool, huh. And if there ever were to be a year, this would be the year, right. They are doing something right.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: The White House responding to questions raised in Bob Woodward's new book about the path of war in Iraq. Want to get both sides now from the political spectrum. Democratic consultant Victor Kamber of the Kamber Group back with us here.

Vic, good morning to you.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Also Cliff may, former RNC communications director, now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

Cliff, good morning to you as well.

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC. COMM. DIR.: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Thanks for coming back. We call it Kamber and May, and it's Tuesday morning. Who do we believe, Cliff? The book says Colin Powell was never consulted. Colin Powell comes out yesterday, and says, that's not the case, I was in the loop the entire time. Who do we believe on this matter?

MAY: Well, I don't know it's a matter of disbelieving. I mean, I think, look, we debated for how long whether or not we were going to go to war in Iraq. Colin Powell made the presentation at the United Nations about the weapons of mass destruction.

Now, it's true that President Bush probably didn't make his mind up until the morning he told the military, go ahead and deploy, but I think everyone understood what was happening.

I think this is a very good book. I think every should read it and draw their own conclusions. I think their conclusions will be different than what a lot of people in the media are concluding right now. I think it's actually rather positive for Bush. The headlines I would draw are very different.

Some of these things can be a bit of an interpretation of what people said in the events. I think, overall, Woodward has done a great job. I think there are some things in which he didn't get 100 percent right.

HEMMER: What conclusions are you arriving at, at this point?

KAMBER: It builds a different picture of George Bush than the American public knows. You know, we have 250, 260 million Americans. The book, if it's lucky, will sell, 300, 400,000 copies, be No. 1, so it's not going to change the electorate, but the readers of the book are going to be a lot of opinion leaders, a lot of people who are still forming opinions about George Bush.

And what this book says, is it paints a picture of a president who, frankly, is not all that engaged with his principal people, possibly is talking to people outside of his administration about issues that affect money, some foreign leaders.

The issue with Colin Powell, I have no doubt of what took place, that the president had made up his mind. As the president said in the interview in the book, that he knew what Powell was thinking, so why bother asking him.

I think that's ludicrous, and frightening that you don't ask your secretary of state what you want and what to do, but I believe it.

MAY: Bill, this is why people really need to sit down and read the book, because it's very clear in the book, for one thing, that Powell had a two-hour meeting with President Bush over dinner, and then in the Oval Office, talking all about Iraq, and making the case for why it was a dangerous thing for the president to do, to define his first term based on Iraq, and the president listened very carefully to that.

KAMBER: Obviously didn't take his advice.

MAY: You know what, you and I have both even advisers. When you're an adviser, your job is to give advice. Your boss' job is not necessarily to take your advice, rather than somebody else's. Let me also point this out, Victor, my friend Victor, and others have been saying for months, oh, Bush exaggerated the intelligence, Bush misled the people, they're even saying Bush lied. Read this book. It's very clear that President Bush was skeptical about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq until the time when George Tenet, his CIA director, CIA director for Bill Clinton, got up from the couch, threw his arms in the air and said, Mr. President, it is a slam dunk. It is a slam dunk.

KAMBER: And we are a year later, and that same CIA director is there, so my belief would be that George Bush, skeptical or not, still believes in his secretary -- CIA director and has kept him there, which says that the president, obviously, doesn't understand what's going on in Iraq to this day.

MAY: Then you've got to say, and you should say it now, that your argument is against George Tenet, not against President Bush.

KAMBER: It's against the leader. The buck stops one place, with the president and who he staffs it with, whether it's a Bill Clinton staffer that stayed on, or whether it's his appointee. We're a year later. We found no weapons of mass destruction. Now we're doing the typical Bush blame somebody else.

MAY: This is Bob Woodward's book. The director of the CIA, who had been studying this problem for years, says it's absolutely a slam dunk, that there are weapons of mass destruction.

KAMBER: He's still there.

MAY: One other thing that's important, is that don't forget the president inherited from President Clinton a policy called the Iraq liberation act, that was the policy of the U.S. government, bipartisan, to topple Saddam Hussein. But the CIA came to Bush, in this book, and said, you know what, there is no way we can do it, unless we do it militarily, we've looked at other ways. If we are going to fulfill this policy, we have to do it this way.

HEMMER: Final word.

KAMBER: It's a good read, an easy read, and a lot of people who read it will make up their mind that George Bush shouldn't be president.

MAY: Let people read the book and make up their own mind.

HEMMER: See you in another week, guys. Victor and Cliff, thanks again, Kamber and May, appreciate it -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: A Florida couple could go to jail rather than provide evidence against their daughter. Twenty-eight-year-old Jennifer Porter has admitted involvement in the hit-and-run accident in which two children were killed, two others injured, all in the same family. Jennifer's parents have refused to cooperate with the investigation. And their lawyer, Ralph Fernandez, joins us this morning from Tampa, Florida. Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for being with us.

RALPH FERNANDEZ, LAWYERS FOR PARENT WHO ARE SILENT ABOUT DAUGHTER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: To update people who may not know a lot about this story, this young woman, who is 28 years old, Jennifer Porter, is cooperating with authorities. She has apologized to the mother of the two dead children. Two of her other children, as we mentioned, are hospitalized from this accident. The two who died, by the way, ages 3 and 13. And there was evidence from her car apparently, or the car she was driving, blood and human tissue. It's been turned over to investigators. That's what we know at this point.

So why would the parents of this woman not cooperate with investigators?

FERNANDEZ: Well, no parents anywhere in the world, I believe, would like to cooperate and render testimony against their child, his or her child. Likewise, there are some other issues involving the possibility of the implication of the Fifth Amendment, as well as some spousal privileges. And it's just a situation that has escalated after there was a proffer that she would cooperate, her parents would cooperate, by her lawyer, and that did not materialize. So the state now is seeking to compel that testimony, and a court has made it abundantly clear that by this afternoon at 1:30, if that is not done, that the parents will go to jail.

O'BRIEN: Well, if you are talking about the parents potentially being able to plead the Fifth, which as you well know, it involves self-incrimination, so this is their daughter. Doesn't seem like there's any protection against incriminating your child. Are you saying that one of the parents potentially was involved in this hit and run?

FERNANDEZ: No. What we're saying is that there were a number of communications, perhaps. There were some activity post-event in which the parents may have well participated, but more importantly, it's just the combination of the three or four factors that need to be considered in view of the testimony that is being elicited by way of subpoena.

O'BRIEN: You're making it sound very complicated. So you're saying, maybe they were involved after the fact. Of course, they received a cell phone call from the young woman to her parents.

FERNANDEZ: Yes, there is evidence that there was contact and there may have been advice and communication back and forth, and that's what the state seeks to establish.

O'BRIEN: The judge said if the parents don't cooperate, they could go to jail, six months apiece. Do they understand that? Are they willing to do that?

FERNANDEZ: We're optimistic that between now and the evidentiary hearing, there will be something short of that taking place. But the judge made it -- again, he was very serious and conveyed the message very well that that's his intention if this does not get resolved by today.

O'BRIEN: As you mentioned, you talked about most parents would not want to testify against, or provide any kind of evidence against their own child. And the parents have also made it clear about their concern for their 28-year-old daughter. But my question to them would be, well, what about the 13-year-old now dead and the 3-year-old now dead? Don't they have any iota of compassion for the parents of those children who would like to have some kind of closure? The other two kids, as we mentioned, still in the hospital.

FERNANDEZ: Yes, and they are filled with compassion. And what happens is that there was a breakdown in communications, and we're optimistic that that's why the matter may well be resolved by this afternoon and bring closure to that initial stage of the investigation.

O'BRIEN: We've been seeing picture of this little girl, and she is one of the survivors of the accident, we should mention. Ralph Fernandez is the attorney for the parents who are now facing jail. 1:30 is the deadline. So I guess you will know then exactly what their fate is going to be. Thanks for joining us to clarify what I think is a pretty confusing case, at least at this point. Thank you -- Bill.

HEMMER: NHL player Mike Danton remains in custody in California, waiting extradition to St. Louis area. The St. Louis Blues' hockey player is involved in a complicated case with serious implications.

Josie Burke has more now this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSIE BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The arrest of 23- year-old NHL player Mike Danton last week on charges he tried to engineer a murder for hire scheme left his Saint Louis Blues teammates grasping for answers.

BRYCE SALVADOR, TEAMMATE OF DANTON: It is unfortunate because he's a great guy. And, hopefully, you know, something, you know, is misunderstood here and it just all works out.

BURKE: A criminal complaint alleges Danton used a friend, a 19- year-old college student Katie Wolfmeyer, to hire a hit man to kill an unidentified male acquaintance.

The plot failed, details contained in the FBI's affidavit, like the pair argued other Danton's alleged promiscuity and alcohol use, and according to an FBI wiretap -- quote -- "Danton also felt the acquaintance was going to leave him, unquote, left questions about a possible motive."

DERRICK GOOLD, "ST. LOUIS POST DISPATCH": It implies on first read maybe a romantic entanglement, or maybe that's what we want to see there, but really it's something that you would say of many different people in your life.

MORRISON: His agent says Danton recently came to him for help with emotional problems, including paranoia. Danton was formerly named Mike Jefferson, but changed his name in 2002 after a long estrangement from his family.

GOOLD: He certainly has a lot of emotional baggage that he was carrying with him, and he was reluctant to talk about publicly. Privately with his teammates, he spoke about some of it, but even they had a sense that there was something much deeper going on.

MORRISON: Danton was known as an agitator on the ice, instigating fights and drawing penalties from opponents. Both Danton and Wolfmeyer remain in custody on charges of conspiracy to commit murder.

Josie Burke, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: At a hearing yesterday, Katie Wolfmeyer's attorney called her a young girl smitten with a hockey player who lied to her. A preliminary hearing for Wolfmeyer is now set for the 30th.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, how cutting back on calories could add years to your life. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to explain.

HEMMER: Also, people are so desperate to see financial genius Warren Buffett, ticket scalpers are having a field day. Andy has that ahead, in business today.

O'BRIEN: And we speak live with Oscar-winning actress Jessica Lange about her commitment to help the world's children.

Those stories are all ahead, as AMERICAN MORNING continues, right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Cutting calories could drastically reduce the risk of diseases associated with aging, like heart attack, or stroke or diabetes.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us from the CNN center, with details on a new study.

Hey, Sanjay, good morning to you.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Yes, eat less, live longer, that's the mantra coming out of this particular research. And listen, we've known this for some time in rats and fruit flies. But this is the first study actually looking at human beings, non-obese human beings, 18 of them, to try and figure out whether or not lower calories might, in fact, lead to a longer lifespan. They followed these people along, putting them on a low- calorie diet, specifically 1,100 to 2,000 calories. A typical diet, just so you know, a typical American diet, around 2,000 to 3,500 calories, so a pretty Dramatically reduced calorie diet. Looking at specific indicators of health, trying to figure out whether or not these indicators of health actually improve.

Specifically what they found, decreased lipid levels. Now these are things typically associated with the heart, decreased lipid levels, decreased blood pressure, bad cholesterol goes down, good cholesterol goes up.

They also want to figure out, does this translate into what people think of as atheroshrorosis, or hardening of the arteries? As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words -- take a look at some of these picture here. What they're specifically trying to find out. whether or not arteries actually clog up.

This is an non-clogged artery. This is the sort of diet, people are on a low-calorie restricted diet. If you're eating the higher calorie restricted diet, they're saying the arteries more likely to clog up. Again, a very small study. Soledad, they are the first ones to point out that there are limitations to this study. First of all, are the non-obese people who they studied healthier anyway and, therefore, have better indicators. And does a low-calorie diet offer some negative side effects, like inability to ward off infections or colds, decreased energy and stamina. But still, an interesting study, at least initially, nonetheless -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Do you have any, I guess, facts about what exactly a low-calorie diet would mean sort of weightwise for these people? Were they considered to be 10, 15, 20 pounds underweight for the average American?

GUPTA: You know, it's interesting, all they classified them as was non-obese people, meaning that they weren't obese, but their body weight's much closer to normal body range as opposed to being under weight.

A low-calorie diet, actually that's a good question, because that can take on a whole bunch of different meanings. The way they specifically defined it in this case was 1,100 to 2,000 calories a day, but if you look at all the vitamins and all the other nutrients that were recommended, they are getting more than 100 percent of those.

Here's a big thing, though, no processed foods. If you look at the overall breakdown in terms of carbohydrates versus fats and protein, they had much higher in terms of proteins, much lower in terms of fat. Remember, Soledad, fat is about nine calories per gram, whereas protein and carbohydrates about 4 calories per gram -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Does it necessarily follow that if you -- as they were looking in these 18 patients, if you reduce the risk of disease, that you are necessarily going to live longer? GUPTA: That is a great question. That is a very difficult question to answer. Some of this is sort of translational stuff, meaning that heart disease, stroke and cancer are the three biggest killers in America. If you can do things to reduce the risk of those things and high lipid levels, high cholesterol related to those things, then you should be able to increase lifespan on average for a society such as the United States. But it's a good question, because that's the sort of next step to figure out long term, are people actually living longer on these low-calorie diets?

O'BRIEN: Right, it's sort of the $64,000 question, which I have to imagine is at the bottom of all of this investigation. Sanjay Gupta, at the CNN Center for us. Sanjay, thanks.

GUPTA: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: She is a two-time Academy Award winner, but Jessica Lange's current role could be her most critical. She's a goodwill ambassador with UNICEF. Lange was in Mexico all week, visiting with children, and lobbying local leaders, seeking to raise awareness of the global abuse and exploitation of children. The actress is a veteran of U.N. missions, working on behalf of women and children in other countries as well.

Jessica Lange is our guest from Mexico City to talk about her week there.

I know at the end of last week, I think it was on Friday, you went to a shelter, children exploited and abused children. What did you learn while you were there?

JESSICA LANGE, UNICEF GOODWILL AMB.: Well, yes, we visited several shelters at the end of last week and then this week. You know, it's a worldwide problem, child exploitation, sexual exploitation, and that is specifically what we are -- what UNICEF is addressing here at the interparliamentary union session, talking to all the different levels, from the parliamentarians, on down to tourist industry, trying to create an environment of safety for children.

HEMMER: I understand about 140 countries are involved in that very event that you just mentioned. How do you convince them to take action and to change things?

LANGE: Well, I think, you know, I mean, it's a difficult process, because first, it demands that each country acknowledge the problem, which is often the hardest thing for them to do. For instance, here in Mexico, I mean, they have really faced this quite head-on and admirably. The programs that we saw put in place again, I mean, it is -- you have to deal with it as a total environment, so the child can live in safety and dignity. So, you know, it encompasses really everything from legislature, from laws to protect the child, laws to prosecute the abusers, all the way down to taxi drivers, people in the tourist industry. There's a campaign here in Mexico of open your eyes, but don't close your mouth.

So, you know, it's about information, it's about awareness, and it, I think, is something that really needs to be looked at very hard and dealt with each country. I mean, it crosses all lines of economics, of culture, of religion.

There's not a country that is not affected by sexual exploitation. I mean, a lot of times you think that perhaps it's only in the poorer countries, you know, Southeast Asia, whatever. But the truth is that there are over 2 million children worldwide that are believed to be involved in sexual exploitation. And as of the year 2000, 325,000 children in the United States were believed to be vulnerable to sexual exploitations. So it really is a worldwide problem.

HEMMER: They've found a good spokesperson in you.

Jessica Lange, thanks for talking, from Mexico City.

And by the way, happy birthday.

LANGE: Oh, no.

HEMMER: Twenty-nine again, right? You look terrific.

LANGE: Always 29.

HEMMER: You look great. Thanks again, OK.

LANGE: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: That's right, sister. We're all 29. Good for her. Good for her work, too. Really interesting.

Still to come this morning, the U.S. Supreme Court today considers a major test to the Bush administration's anti-terror tactics. A look at that is just ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Once again, Jack Cafferty.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Warren Buffett putting an end to some scalpers dreams and adding credence to the theory that life in Nebraska is far from electric, the perfect subject for Andy Serwer, who's "Minding Your Business."

I can't believe this.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: I've had a lot of good times in Omaha actually. They've got some good steakhouses there.

CAFFERTY: They have a good racetrack.

SERWER: A college world series there. All right, they call it corporate Woodstock, that's Berkshire Hathaway's annual meeting. Every year, it's in Omaha, Nebraska. Of course, the company's CEO is Warren Buffett. A lot of people go to this thing. Shareholders love it, because they get to mingle with Buffet, they get to shop at his stores, they get to ask him questions endlessly, like what happens to the stock when you die, Warren? he said, I hope it doesn't go down to much. He's pretty funny.

Now people really want to go to this thing. So people have been scalping tickets, scalping their proxies, selling them for as much as $58. Warren doesn't like that. He's putting them on eBay and selling them for 5 bucks or $2.50 each. Next year, apparently, he's going to put little I.D.s on them, so they're not transferable. But $93,000 per share is what a share of Berkshire Hathaway costs, so scalping one for 58 bucks is a little bit cheaper.

CAFFERTY: Yes, a lot cheaper. Couldn't you just also read like the annual report that comes out after the meeting?

SERWER: Well, you wouldn't get to go to the Woodstock thing.

CAFFERTY: What about the markets?

SERWER: Well, yesterday we had kind of a mixed session. The Dow was down about 14, and here you go. And we were saying, when you get mixed sessions like this, it means stocks are trying to find their way. We're in the middle of earnings season. There's a lot of stuff going on with inflation, obviously overseas as well.

This morning, GM announced earnings that were pretty good, and they raised their outlook for the year. Greenspan testifying in Congress later today. So that's the story of the day.

CAFFERTY: We're all trying to find our way.

SERWER: You and me at least.

CAFFERTY: Time now for the Cafferty File. Yoga has taken off in the NFL. Members of the Cincinnati Bengals, Bill, are taking yoga classes. "The Cincinnati Inquirer" reports part of the team's three- month offseason strength and conditioning program. Isn't that pretty? Most of the players say they like the class, and it helps them prepare for the unnatural positions hay get put in on the field, not to mention some of the unnatural positions they find themselves in after the game.

The team's strength coach describes the class as -- quote -- "a testosterone-laced Westernized version tailored to athletes." Oh, those Bengals.

The Italians have a population problem. Villages, like Laviano, report a drastic drop in the number of births. There were four births there in 2002, compared to 70 births per year there in the 1970s. So last year, the government began offering $1,200 to every woman who had a second child. Now the mayor of Laviano has upped the offer to $12,000 for each additional baby. So, Soledad, there's extra money to be made there.

SERWER: That's 24 grand right there.

O'BRIEN: If I hold out until next year, clearly over 50 grand for the two.

One demographer says the Italians have not given up sex, they have merely given up procreation. They're getting it.

CAFFERTY: We may soon be able to tell the difference between Democrat and Republican brains. "The New York Times" reports researchers in California using MRI's to study how people from both parties look at candidates. They showed pictures of President Bush, Senator John Kerry and campaign commercials then monitor brain activity, if there is any after looking at that stuff. It turns out the part of the brain that responds to danger is much more active in Democrats. After watching the president's September 11th commercials, researchers say they need to test more subjects.

There's a story that we'll be right on top of.

SERWER: Is that a government grant, do you think, funded that?

CAFFERTY: Probably, yes.

SERWER: I hope so.

CAFFERTY: Can you imagine? I mean, who comes up with these ideas.

SERWER: That's vital statistical research, isn't it?

HEMMER: Right brain/left brain. Thanks, guys.

In a moment here, some agreement, some disagreements over the latest book from Bob Woodward. Back to the White House, live in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 20, 2004 - 08:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The defense in the Jayson Williams manslaughter trial has been allowed to reopen its case after a three- week break. A New Jersey judge made the decision after the prosecution submitted late evidence. Williams is accused of shooting a man and then making the scene look like a suicide. The defense claims that a gun malfunctioned, accidentally firing. A weapons expert is scheduled to testify today.
More evidence that drinking alcohol can cause certain types of cancer. Researchers say that fairly heavy alcohol consumption seems to increase the risk of colon cancer. The increase in risk was highest in people who drank more than 45 grams of California per day. That's the equivalent of about three average sized drinks each and every day. The study is published in "The Annals of Internal Medicine."

And a double surprise during the year of the monkey. In China, An 11-year-old golden monkey mom gave birth to twin monkey boys at Safari Park in Beijing, China. The odds of twin golden monkeys are one in 10,000. We're told the monkey mom and those cute little monkey twin boys are said to be doing very well.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: That's pretty cool, huh. And if there ever were to be a year, this would be the year, right. They are doing something right.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: The White House responding to questions raised in Bob Woodward's new book about the path of war in Iraq. Want to get both sides now from the political spectrum. Democratic consultant Victor Kamber of the Kamber Group back with us here.

Vic, good morning to you.

VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Also Cliff may, former RNC communications director, now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.

Cliff, good morning to you as well.

CLIFF MAY, FMR. RNC. COMM. DIR.: Good morning, Bill.

HEMMER: Thanks for coming back. We call it Kamber and May, and it's Tuesday morning. Who do we believe, Cliff? The book says Colin Powell was never consulted. Colin Powell comes out yesterday, and says, that's not the case, I was in the loop the entire time. Who do we believe on this matter?

MAY: Well, I don't know it's a matter of disbelieving. I mean, I think, look, we debated for how long whether or not we were going to go to war in Iraq. Colin Powell made the presentation at the United Nations about the weapons of mass destruction.

Now, it's true that President Bush probably didn't make his mind up until the morning he told the military, go ahead and deploy, but I think everyone understood what was happening.

I think this is a very good book. I think every should read it and draw their own conclusions. I think their conclusions will be different than what a lot of people in the media are concluding right now. I think it's actually rather positive for Bush. The headlines I would draw are very different.

Some of these things can be a bit of an interpretation of what people said in the events. I think, overall, Woodward has done a great job. I think there are some things in which he didn't get 100 percent right.

HEMMER: What conclusions are you arriving at, at this point?

KAMBER: It builds a different picture of George Bush than the American public knows. You know, we have 250, 260 million Americans. The book, if it's lucky, will sell, 300, 400,000 copies, be No. 1, so it's not going to change the electorate, but the readers of the book are going to be a lot of opinion leaders, a lot of people who are still forming opinions about George Bush.

And what this book says, is it paints a picture of a president who, frankly, is not all that engaged with his principal people, possibly is talking to people outside of his administration about issues that affect money, some foreign leaders.

The issue with Colin Powell, I have no doubt of what took place, that the president had made up his mind. As the president said in the interview in the book, that he knew what Powell was thinking, so why bother asking him.

I think that's ludicrous, and frightening that you don't ask your secretary of state what you want and what to do, but I believe it.

MAY: Bill, this is why people really need to sit down and read the book, because it's very clear in the book, for one thing, that Powell had a two-hour meeting with President Bush over dinner, and then in the Oval Office, talking all about Iraq, and making the case for why it was a dangerous thing for the president to do, to define his first term based on Iraq, and the president listened very carefully to that.

KAMBER: Obviously didn't take his advice.

MAY: You know what, you and I have both even advisers. When you're an adviser, your job is to give advice. Your boss' job is not necessarily to take your advice, rather than somebody else's. Let me also point this out, Victor, my friend Victor, and others have been saying for months, oh, Bush exaggerated the intelligence, Bush misled the people, they're even saying Bush lied. Read this book. It's very clear that President Bush was skeptical about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq until the time when George Tenet, his CIA director, CIA director for Bill Clinton, got up from the couch, threw his arms in the air and said, Mr. President, it is a slam dunk. It is a slam dunk.

KAMBER: And we are a year later, and that same CIA director is there, so my belief would be that George Bush, skeptical or not, still believes in his secretary -- CIA director and has kept him there, which says that the president, obviously, doesn't understand what's going on in Iraq to this day.

MAY: Then you've got to say, and you should say it now, that your argument is against George Tenet, not against President Bush.

KAMBER: It's against the leader. The buck stops one place, with the president and who he staffs it with, whether it's a Bill Clinton staffer that stayed on, or whether it's his appointee. We're a year later. We found no weapons of mass destruction. Now we're doing the typical Bush blame somebody else.

MAY: This is Bob Woodward's book. The director of the CIA, who had been studying this problem for years, says it's absolutely a slam dunk, that there are weapons of mass destruction.

KAMBER: He's still there.

MAY: One other thing that's important, is that don't forget the president inherited from President Clinton a policy called the Iraq liberation act, that was the policy of the U.S. government, bipartisan, to topple Saddam Hussein. But the CIA came to Bush, in this book, and said, you know what, there is no way we can do it, unless we do it militarily, we've looked at other ways. If we are going to fulfill this policy, we have to do it this way.

HEMMER: Final word.

KAMBER: It's a good read, an easy read, and a lot of people who read it will make up their mind that George Bush shouldn't be president.

MAY: Let people read the book and make up their own mind.

HEMMER: See you in another week, guys. Victor and Cliff, thanks again, Kamber and May, appreciate it -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: A Florida couple could go to jail rather than provide evidence against their daughter. Twenty-eight-year-old Jennifer Porter has admitted involvement in the hit-and-run accident in which two children were killed, two others injured, all in the same family. Jennifer's parents have refused to cooperate with the investigation. And their lawyer, Ralph Fernandez, joins us this morning from Tampa, Florida. Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for being with us.

RALPH FERNANDEZ, LAWYERS FOR PARENT WHO ARE SILENT ABOUT DAUGHTER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: To update people who may not know a lot about this story, this young woman, who is 28 years old, Jennifer Porter, is cooperating with authorities. She has apologized to the mother of the two dead children. Two of her other children, as we mentioned, are hospitalized from this accident. The two who died, by the way, ages 3 and 13. And there was evidence from her car apparently, or the car she was driving, blood and human tissue. It's been turned over to investigators. That's what we know at this point.

So why would the parents of this woman not cooperate with investigators?

FERNANDEZ: Well, no parents anywhere in the world, I believe, would like to cooperate and render testimony against their child, his or her child. Likewise, there are some other issues involving the possibility of the implication of the Fifth Amendment, as well as some spousal privileges. And it's just a situation that has escalated after there was a proffer that she would cooperate, her parents would cooperate, by her lawyer, and that did not materialize. So the state now is seeking to compel that testimony, and a court has made it abundantly clear that by this afternoon at 1:30, if that is not done, that the parents will go to jail.

O'BRIEN: Well, if you are talking about the parents potentially being able to plead the Fifth, which as you well know, it involves self-incrimination, so this is their daughter. Doesn't seem like there's any protection against incriminating your child. Are you saying that one of the parents potentially was involved in this hit and run?

FERNANDEZ: No. What we're saying is that there were a number of communications, perhaps. There were some activity post-event in which the parents may have well participated, but more importantly, it's just the combination of the three or four factors that need to be considered in view of the testimony that is being elicited by way of subpoena.

O'BRIEN: You're making it sound very complicated. So you're saying, maybe they were involved after the fact. Of course, they received a cell phone call from the young woman to her parents.

FERNANDEZ: Yes, there is evidence that there was contact and there may have been advice and communication back and forth, and that's what the state seeks to establish.

O'BRIEN: The judge said if the parents don't cooperate, they could go to jail, six months apiece. Do they understand that? Are they willing to do that?

FERNANDEZ: We're optimistic that between now and the evidentiary hearing, there will be something short of that taking place. But the judge made it -- again, he was very serious and conveyed the message very well that that's his intention if this does not get resolved by today.

O'BRIEN: As you mentioned, you talked about most parents would not want to testify against, or provide any kind of evidence against their own child. And the parents have also made it clear about their concern for their 28-year-old daughter. But my question to them would be, well, what about the 13-year-old now dead and the 3-year-old now dead? Don't they have any iota of compassion for the parents of those children who would like to have some kind of closure? The other two kids, as we mentioned, still in the hospital.

FERNANDEZ: Yes, and they are filled with compassion. And what happens is that there was a breakdown in communications, and we're optimistic that that's why the matter may well be resolved by this afternoon and bring closure to that initial stage of the investigation.

O'BRIEN: We've been seeing picture of this little girl, and she is one of the survivors of the accident, we should mention. Ralph Fernandez is the attorney for the parents who are now facing jail. 1:30 is the deadline. So I guess you will know then exactly what their fate is going to be. Thanks for joining us to clarify what I think is a pretty confusing case, at least at this point. Thank you -- Bill.

HEMMER: NHL player Mike Danton remains in custody in California, waiting extradition to St. Louis area. The St. Louis Blues' hockey player is involved in a complicated case with serious implications.

Josie Burke has more now this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSIE BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The arrest of 23- year-old NHL player Mike Danton last week on charges he tried to engineer a murder for hire scheme left his Saint Louis Blues teammates grasping for answers.

BRYCE SALVADOR, TEAMMATE OF DANTON: It is unfortunate because he's a great guy. And, hopefully, you know, something, you know, is misunderstood here and it just all works out.

BURKE: A criminal complaint alleges Danton used a friend, a 19- year-old college student Katie Wolfmeyer, to hire a hit man to kill an unidentified male acquaintance.

The plot failed, details contained in the FBI's affidavit, like the pair argued other Danton's alleged promiscuity and alcohol use, and according to an FBI wiretap -- quote -- "Danton also felt the acquaintance was going to leave him, unquote, left questions about a possible motive."

DERRICK GOOLD, "ST. LOUIS POST DISPATCH": It implies on first read maybe a romantic entanglement, or maybe that's what we want to see there, but really it's something that you would say of many different people in your life.

MORRISON: His agent says Danton recently came to him for help with emotional problems, including paranoia. Danton was formerly named Mike Jefferson, but changed his name in 2002 after a long estrangement from his family.

GOOLD: He certainly has a lot of emotional baggage that he was carrying with him, and he was reluctant to talk about publicly. Privately with his teammates, he spoke about some of it, but even they had a sense that there was something much deeper going on.

MORRISON: Danton was known as an agitator on the ice, instigating fights and drawing penalties from opponents. Both Danton and Wolfmeyer remain in custody on charges of conspiracy to commit murder.

Josie Burke, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: At a hearing yesterday, Katie Wolfmeyer's attorney called her a young girl smitten with a hockey player who lied to her. A preliminary hearing for Wolfmeyer is now set for the 30th.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, how cutting back on calories could add years to your life. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to explain.

HEMMER: Also, people are so desperate to see financial genius Warren Buffett, ticket scalpers are having a field day. Andy has that ahead, in business today.

O'BRIEN: And we speak live with Oscar-winning actress Jessica Lange about her commitment to help the world's children.

Those stories are all ahead, as AMERICAN MORNING continues, right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Cutting calories could drastically reduce the risk of diseases associated with aging, like heart attack, or stroke or diabetes.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us from the CNN center, with details on a new study.

Hey, Sanjay, good morning to you.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

Yes, eat less, live longer, that's the mantra coming out of this particular research. And listen, we've known this for some time in rats and fruit flies. But this is the first study actually looking at human beings, non-obese human beings, 18 of them, to try and figure out whether or not lower calories might, in fact, lead to a longer lifespan. They followed these people along, putting them on a low- calorie diet, specifically 1,100 to 2,000 calories. A typical diet, just so you know, a typical American diet, around 2,000 to 3,500 calories, so a pretty Dramatically reduced calorie diet. Looking at specific indicators of health, trying to figure out whether or not these indicators of health actually improve.

Specifically what they found, decreased lipid levels. Now these are things typically associated with the heart, decreased lipid levels, decreased blood pressure, bad cholesterol goes down, good cholesterol goes up.

They also want to figure out, does this translate into what people think of as atheroshrorosis, or hardening of the arteries? As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words -- take a look at some of these picture here. What they're specifically trying to find out. whether or not arteries actually clog up.

This is an non-clogged artery. This is the sort of diet, people are on a low-calorie restricted diet. If you're eating the higher calorie restricted diet, they're saying the arteries more likely to clog up. Again, a very small study. Soledad, they are the first ones to point out that there are limitations to this study. First of all, are the non-obese people who they studied healthier anyway and, therefore, have better indicators. And does a low-calorie diet offer some negative side effects, like inability to ward off infections or colds, decreased energy and stamina. But still, an interesting study, at least initially, nonetheless -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Do you have any, I guess, facts about what exactly a low-calorie diet would mean sort of weightwise for these people? Were they considered to be 10, 15, 20 pounds underweight for the average American?

GUPTA: You know, it's interesting, all they classified them as was non-obese people, meaning that they weren't obese, but their body weight's much closer to normal body range as opposed to being under weight.

A low-calorie diet, actually that's a good question, because that can take on a whole bunch of different meanings. The way they specifically defined it in this case was 1,100 to 2,000 calories a day, but if you look at all the vitamins and all the other nutrients that were recommended, they are getting more than 100 percent of those.

Here's a big thing, though, no processed foods. If you look at the overall breakdown in terms of carbohydrates versus fats and protein, they had much higher in terms of proteins, much lower in terms of fat. Remember, Soledad, fat is about nine calories per gram, whereas protein and carbohydrates about 4 calories per gram -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Does it necessarily follow that if you -- as they were looking in these 18 patients, if you reduce the risk of disease, that you are necessarily going to live longer? GUPTA: That is a great question. That is a very difficult question to answer. Some of this is sort of translational stuff, meaning that heart disease, stroke and cancer are the three biggest killers in America. If you can do things to reduce the risk of those things and high lipid levels, high cholesterol related to those things, then you should be able to increase lifespan on average for a society such as the United States. But it's a good question, because that's the sort of next step to figure out long term, are people actually living longer on these low-calorie diets?

O'BRIEN: Right, it's sort of the $64,000 question, which I have to imagine is at the bottom of all of this investigation. Sanjay Gupta, at the CNN Center for us. Sanjay, thanks.

GUPTA: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: She is a two-time Academy Award winner, but Jessica Lange's current role could be her most critical. She's a goodwill ambassador with UNICEF. Lange was in Mexico all week, visiting with children, and lobbying local leaders, seeking to raise awareness of the global abuse and exploitation of children. The actress is a veteran of U.N. missions, working on behalf of women and children in other countries as well.

Jessica Lange is our guest from Mexico City to talk about her week there.

I know at the end of last week, I think it was on Friday, you went to a shelter, children exploited and abused children. What did you learn while you were there?

JESSICA LANGE, UNICEF GOODWILL AMB.: Well, yes, we visited several shelters at the end of last week and then this week. You know, it's a worldwide problem, child exploitation, sexual exploitation, and that is specifically what we are -- what UNICEF is addressing here at the interparliamentary union session, talking to all the different levels, from the parliamentarians, on down to tourist industry, trying to create an environment of safety for children.

HEMMER: I understand about 140 countries are involved in that very event that you just mentioned. How do you convince them to take action and to change things?

LANGE: Well, I think, you know, I mean, it's a difficult process, because first, it demands that each country acknowledge the problem, which is often the hardest thing for them to do. For instance, here in Mexico, I mean, they have really faced this quite head-on and admirably. The programs that we saw put in place again, I mean, it is -- you have to deal with it as a total environment, so the child can live in safety and dignity. So, you know, it encompasses really everything from legislature, from laws to protect the child, laws to prosecute the abusers, all the way down to taxi drivers, people in the tourist industry. There's a campaign here in Mexico of open your eyes, but don't close your mouth.

So, you know, it's about information, it's about awareness, and it, I think, is something that really needs to be looked at very hard and dealt with each country. I mean, it crosses all lines of economics, of culture, of religion.

There's not a country that is not affected by sexual exploitation. I mean, a lot of times you think that perhaps it's only in the poorer countries, you know, Southeast Asia, whatever. But the truth is that there are over 2 million children worldwide that are believed to be involved in sexual exploitation. And as of the year 2000, 325,000 children in the United States were believed to be vulnerable to sexual exploitations. So it really is a worldwide problem.

HEMMER: They've found a good spokesperson in you.

Jessica Lange, thanks for talking, from Mexico City.

And by the way, happy birthday.

LANGE: Oh, no.

HEMMER: Twenty-nine again, right? You look terrific.

LANGE: Always 29.

HEMMER: You look great. Thanks again, OK.

LANGE: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: That's right, sister. We're all 29. Good for her. Good for her work, too. Really interesting.

Still to come this morning, the U.S. Supreme Court today considers a major test to the Bush administration's anti-terror tactics. A look at that is just ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Once again, Jack Cafferty.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Warren Buffett putting an end to some scalpers dreams and adding credence to the theory that life in Nebraska is far from electric, the perfect subject for Andy Serwer, who's "Minding Your Business."

I can't believe this.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: I've had a lot of good times in Omaha actually. They've got some good steakhouses there.

CAFFERTY: They have a good racetrack.

SERWER: A college world series there. All right, they call it corporate Woodstock, that's Berkshire Hathaway's annual meeting. Every year, it's in Omaha, Nebraska. Of course, the company's CEO is Warren Buffett. A lot of people go to this thing. Shareholders love it, because they get to mingle with Buffet, they get to shop at his stores, they get to ask him questions endlessly, like what happens to the stock when you die, Warren? he said, I hope it doesn't go down to much. He's pretty funny.

Now people really want to go to this thing. So people have been scalping tickets, scalping their proxies, selling them for as much as $58. Warren doesn't like that. He's putting them on eBay and selling them for 5 bucks or $2.50 each. Next year, apparently, he's going to put little I.D.s on them, so they're not transferable. But $93,000 per share is what a share of Berkshire Hathaway costs, so scalping one for 58 bucks is a little bit cheaper.

CAFFERTY: Yes, a lot cheaper. Couldn't you just also read like the annual report that comes out after the meeting?

SERWER: Well, you wouldn't get to go to the Woodstock thing.

CAFFERTY: What about the markets?

SERWER: Well, yesterday we had kind of a mixed session. The Dow was down about 14, and here you go. And we were saying, when you get mixed sessions like this, it means stocks are trying to find their way. We're in the middle of earnings season. There's a lot of stuff going on with inflation, obviously overseas as well.

This morning, GM announced earnings that were pretty good, and they raised their outlook for the year. Greenspan testifying in Congress later today. So that's the story of the day.

CAFFERTY: We're all trying to find our way.

SERWER: You and me at least.

CAFFERTY: Time now for the Cafferty File. Yoga has taken off in the NFL. Members of the Cincinnati Bengals, Bill, are taking yoga classes. "The Cincinnati Inquirer" reports part of the team's three- month offseason strength and conditioning program. Isn't that pretty? Most of the players say they like the class, and it helps them prepare for the unnatural positions hay get put in on the field, not to mention some of the unnatural positions they find themselves in after the game.

The team's strength coach describes the class as -- quote -- "a testosterone-laced Westernized version tailored to athletes." Oh, those Bengals.

The Italians have a population problem. Villages, like Laviano, report a drastic drop in the number of births. There were four births there in 2002, compared to 70 births per year there in the 1970s. So last year, the government began offering $1,200 to every woman who had a second child. Now the mayor of Laviano has upped the offer to $12,000 for each additional baby. So, Soledad, there's extra money to be made there.

SERWER: That's 24 grand right there.

O'BRIEN: If I hold out until next year, clearly over 50 grand for the two.

One demographer says the Italians have not given up sex, they have merely given up procreation. They're getting it.

CAFFERTY: We may soon be able to tell the difference between Democrat and Republican brains. "The New York Times" reports researchers in California using MRI's to study how people from both parties look at candidates. They showed pictures of President Bush, Senator John Kerry and campaign commercials then monitor brain activity, if there is any after looking at that stuff. It turns out the part of the brain that responds to danger is much more active in Democrats. After watching the president's September 11th commercials, researchers say they need to test more subjects.

There's a story that we'll be right on top of.

SERWER: Is that a government grant, do you think, funded that?

CAFFERTY: Probably, yes.

SERWER: I hope so.

CAFFERTY: Can you imagine? I mean, who comes up with these ideas.

SERWER: That's vital statistical research, isn't it?

HEMMER: Right brain/left brain. Thanks, guys.

In a moment here, some agreement, some disagreements over the latest book from Bob Woodward. Back to the White House, live in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.

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