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CNN Live At Daybreak

Officials Hold News Conference in Utica, Illinois; Coffey Talk: Saddam Hussein's Trial

Aired April 21, 2004 - 06:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the governor of Illinois will visit areas hardest hit by severe storms. At least three people were killed when tornadoes touched down in Utica, Illinois. It's what happening right now.
Also, Secretary of State Colin Powell is expected to ask Congress to delay the deadline for ending the visa waiver program. Twenty- seven countries were given until late October to revamp their systems to guard against falsified passports.

North Korea and China are moving ahead with discussions on six- party talks concerning North Korea's nuclear program. Kim Jong Il met with China's leadership over the past three days during an unofficial visit to Beijing.

And mission accomplished, at least in part. A new crew has arrived at the International Space Station. It docked this morning, after being sent into space on a Russian rocket.

(WEATHER BREAK)

COSTELLO: We are waiting a news conference live out of Utica, Illinois. It's supposed to start at 6:30 Eastern Time, but, of course, it has not. When it starts, we'll take you there live.

This year's presidential election is turning out to be one of the most expensive in U.S. history. Just ahead, just how much George Bush and John Kerry are bringing in and spending.

And later, the extensive legal preparations under way for the tribunal Saddam Hussein will face.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: As we've been telling you, a news conference is expected to begin soon in Utica, Illinois, about that big tornado that touched down there yesterday, killing four people, injuring others and destroying buildings. You're taking a live look at Utica, Illinois, this morning as they struggle to restore power there, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Still thousands of people, obviously, without power. This was a half-mile-wide tornado as it moved over the city. And so, you're seeing behind the reporter here, I had a brief glimpse of it anyway, a tree that had not only lost the small branches, but when you start to lose the larger branches, four or five or six inches, and then you start lose bark off a tree, that's when you know this storm was at least 150 miles wide.

Here's some amateur video that we had from yesterday. Hard to see what's going on here, but there are multiple suction spots of this tornado. This is a very large, wide, devastating, probably F-2, maybe F-3 tornado. We'll have to see.

The National Weather Service will actually go out today, and they will find out how much damage was done by the tornado. In fact, F-2, F-3, F-4, all those numbers, don't actually mean wind speeds. In general, we put numbers on them, but they mean how much damage was done. How far was a pickup picked up and thrown? How far was a house knocked down? How much of a tree is still left? That's how they know.

COSTELLO: So, we've seen the damage in Utica with that tavern literally flattened.

MYERS: Yes. Yes, and that's nighttime video. Wait until the daytime when we can actually get some good pictures, you know, that's not just on a camera shot with a light on it. You're going to see more devastating than just that one building.

COSTELLO: How many tornadoes, again, touched down? Not just in Utica, Illinois, but also a tornado touched down in Kokomo, Indiana.

MYERS: Correct, Kokomo.

COSTELLO: Oh, Kokomo. All right, I'll interrupt you. This is the sheriff out there in Utica.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Let's listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

SHERIFF TOM TEMPLETON, LASALLE COUNTY, ILLINOIS: There are still three people that have been confirmed to have died. The search-and- rescue effort is still going on. As you can see behind us, the cranes have been working, along with some other heavy equipment, trying to lift off the sections of floors that collapsed in this three-story building.

So, until they get down to possibly the first floor or the basement level, we may not be able to locate anyone else. And there is still the hope that we're going to locate people that are alive somewhere in the structure.

QUESTION: What do you suspect? Do you suspect there are some people down there who may not have made it?

TEMPLETON: Well, we hope that they -- we hope that they made it. We're going to hold a good thought until we find otherwise.

QUESTION: Are there folks missing?

TEMPLETON: There are people that have not been accounted for, yes.

QUESTION: How many, Sheriff?

TEMPLETON: We're thinking about probably about another four or five.

QUESTION: Four to five?

TEMPLETON: Yes.

QUESTION: And have you been in communication with them, Sheriff?

TEMPLETON: No, no.

QUESTION: Was there a birthday party there?

TEMPLETON: I don't know anything about a birthday party.

QUESTION: So, there is no more sound or anything come out of there? No voices?

TEMPLETON: No, there has been no communication for quite some time, no.

QUESTION: Yes, how long -- when was the last time there was communication, Sheriff?

TEMPLETON: Communication was probably several hours ago.

QUESTION: Any of the relatives of the trapped people down there -- have you been in contact with the relatives of these people at all?

TEMPLETON: They're at another location waiting word of what's going on.

QUESTION: Sheriff, are these communication -- can you explain that communication you had several hours ago?

TEMPLETON: It was very early on with the fire rescue people had been able to talk to some of the individuals who were trapped that were subsequently rescued.

QUESTION: And you have not heard from them for several hours?

TEMPLETON: Not for several hours.

QUESTION: Sheriff, what can you tell us about the people who have been confirmed dead? (UNINTELLIGIBLE) yet?

TEMPLETON: No, no one has been identified, and there has been no notification of next of kin, so there's nothing I can tell you.

QUESTION: Are they residents of Utica?

TEMPLETON: I don't know. There's no identification...

QUESTION: Were there patrons inside, or did they live there, Sheriff?

TEMPLETON: It could be either. I haven't -- I don't know who they are.

QUESTION: Can you tell us what the layout of the building was? Was there carpet upstairs? And what was the basement used for?

TEMPLETON: I don't know what the basement was used for. There was a bar, and there was an apartment upstairs.

QUESTION: Were there children involved?

TEMPLETON: I don't know what the ages of the people are, no. I haven't seen them, and they haven't been -- the people who have been removed are gone to the hospital. I didn't ever see any of those people. They were transported immediately before most of us got here.

QUESTION: Throughout the rest of the area, do you have any idea of how many other people might have been injured in their homes or anywhere else?

TEMPLETON: I don't believe that we have any other injuries that I'm aware of throughout the area. It's been quite devastating night for the whole area, for Putnam County as well as for here.

(QUESTION OFF-MIKE)

TEMPLETON: In here? How many homes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know.

TEMPLETON: Until daylight comes and we can actually get around and take a good look and see what is going on, it would be hard to give you an accurate count of how many homes have been damaged.

(QUESTION OFF-MIKE)

TEMPLETON: No.

QUESTION: Are we talking dozens, Sheriff?

TEMPLETON: I'm going to say there's probably certainly more than 10 or 15 probably, yes.

QUESTION: When do you hope to have power restored, Sheriff?

QUESTION: Sheriff, how soon do you expect to get into that critical area of where you are continuing to search?

TEMPLETON: Well, we hope as soon as we possibly can. The crane has been a big help to us, and the heavy equipment has been a big help. So, as soon as we get those safely lifted off, because we have to try to live those floors safely off in case there is anybody else that is alive down there, we don't want to be causing any other injuries.

QUESTION: Do you have all of the equipment you need to get this job done?

TEMPLETON: I think we've got pretty much what we need, and I think that they've been working now with it for the last couple of hours. And, yes, I think that they're moving and progressing very well right now.

QUESTION: How many different departments are represented here, sir? (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here?

TEMPLETON: Oh, there's been -- there's quite a number of departments that have been here -- everywhere from Chicago to Shawnburg (ph) to Will County. There are just a ton of them. I can't even begin to name all of the agencies that have been here. It's through the Mavis system, through the fire side is Mavis and through the police side it's Aleas (ph). And we have had both -- we've used both systems, and we've had help coming from all over northern Illinois.

QUESTION: How much manpower is being used?

TEMPLETON: A lot. There are quite a number of officers that are here and quite a number of firefighters that are here, so from all over northern Illinois.

QUESTION: Is there any indication at all or any reason to believe that there are people alive in there still?

TEMPLETON: Well, we hope. We hope there are. We haven't had any communication from anyone for several hours, but we're holding out some hope that we can still find some people alive.

QUESTION: That suggests that you had communication with them earlier in the night, is that right?

TEMPLETON: Correct. As I said before, early on there was communication, and those people were rescued.

QUESTION: Sheriff, can you describe the area where these people are, or where you think they are? Is it a basement, is that where they went to flee the tornado?

TEMPLETON: Well, it's possible. Until we get down there to find them, I really have no idea where they went exactly. Were they trapped on the first floor? Did they get to the basement? I don't know.

QUESTION: About how many people have been relocated to shelters in the area?

TEMPLETON: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: About how many people have been relocated out of the town and into shelters, roughly?

TEMPLETON: I'm going to say probably 30, 35?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty or 35.

TEMPLETON: Not a terrible lot, but...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of them have gone with other family.

TEMPLETON: Yes. They've had family members that have come to pick them up and take them.

QUESTION: Sheriff, based on the progress they're making there now with the cranes, do you have any idea of how long it's going to take them until they get down to the critical area?

TEMPLETON: I'm going to say we're still hours away.

QUESTION: Sheriff, were there people that lived above the tavern that could be among the victims?

TEMPLETON: It's possible that they could be.

QUESTION: And who were the other victims? Who could they be?

TEMPLETON: I don't know who they are. There have been tavern patrons, and I don't know their names.

QUESTION: Has the tavern owner been accounted for?

TEMPLETON: One of them.

QUESTION: But not the other.

QUESTION: This was a brick structure that came down?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sandstone.

TEMPLETON: It was sandstone.

QUESTION: Do you know how old the building was?

TEMPLETON: Do you guys know how old it was?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well over 100 years. It was one of the original buildings here in town.

QUESTION: What does it tell you about the strength of the storm that it brought down these brick buildings?

TEMPLETON: You know, from what I've seen and we've been talking about here, this was an awesome tornado that came through. The damage that it did is obviously tremendous, as you can see behind us, and it must have been an extremely powerful tornado.

QUESTION: Do you have any idea of when the governor is supposed to arrive?

TEMPLETON: I know he's going to be coming sometime today. An exact time, we're still waiting to hear that ourselves. OK, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll try to have -- we're probably not going to have another...

COSTELLO: We're going to break away right now from the sheriff out there in Utica, Illinois, telling us of the damage estimates. He confirmed three people dead. We have reports of four people dead in Utica. And he mentioned that bar/apartment building in Utica that absolutely collapsed, and we find that it was made of sandstone, and that's why it came down so easily, although the sheriff said this was one awesome tornado that...

MYERS: It was.

COSTELLO: ... you know, came through that town.

MYERS: Obviously. And the sandstone, literally blocks of sandstone, not that they're crumbling, but the mortar in between is very fragile as well. So, they have to be very careful trying to take these bricks, these blocks of sandstone off to not cause anymore damage to whatever's down below.

COSTELLO: The other thing that he said -- and we're going to get Lisa Leiter on the phone in just a minute. The other thing that he said is that there were people still trapped in the basement of that building.

MYERS: Right.

COSTELLO: Don't know if they were alive or not. They haven't communicated with them for some time. But we do know four people died there.

And you were telling me before that it's a massive building. It was a tavern.

MYERS: Sure.

COSTELLO: And it had apartments on top of it.

MYERS: Right. A two-story building with a basement down below, and as this whole thing went down, the storm takes the building. And we like to think that the storm will move the building away from the basement and throw it in the street, throw it away from you. Well, this one obviously just crumbled. It wasn't strong enough to throw those heavy sandstones into the street. It just crumbled it into the basement itself.

So, when you get to a basement, it's not just, go down there and play pool, you know, or go sit by your bar if you have one in the basement. You want to get under something. You want to get under some mattresses. You always want to get under maybe the stairwell, because that's typically a very strong and heavy structure, or into another (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

COSTELLO: As I said, Lisa Leiter -- CNN's Lisa Leiter is on the phone with us right now in Utica.

What struck you about that news conference -- Lisa?

LISA LEITER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, what struck me about that news conference is exactly what you guys were talking about -- this building. You know, this town has structures that are well over 100 years old, and the building that the tavern was in was one of them.

So, in the words of the LaSalle County sheriff, he said this must have been an awesome tornado to bring down that building.

Just let me go over some of the details of the press conference. Three people are confirmed dead. We had earlier thought it was more, but at this point they're only confirming three people dead from that tavern collapse.

The search-and-rescue effort is still going on. We can hear in the background now the cranes and the heavy equipment that are still combing through some of this rubble here.

There are four or five people still unaccounted for, and included in that number is one of the owners of the tavern. Right now, as I mentioned earlier, 30 to 35 people have been evacuated from this (AUDIO GAP) shelters.

And at this point, you know, they think that they have everything that they need here to continue with (AUDIO GAP) efforts. Later on today (AUDIO GAP) will be visiting the area to assess the damage. And we know that local and state officials have asked for emergency funding to help with the cleanup efforts.

But at this point, that is all we know. There is not going to be another briefing from the local authorities here for several hours from now -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Something else that's complicating things near that Milestone bar that collapsed, Chad, there was a water main break underneath the street, and it's causing some flooding.

MYERS: Oh, is that right?

COSTELLO: So...

MYERS: Yes, we don't need that in the basement, right, of course, if the people are still trapped down there. But typically, that's an odd thing for a tornado to do -- to break a water main.

LEITER: Can I...

COSTELLO: Really?

MYERS: Sure, because it's underneath the ground, right? I mean, you really have to move something. You have to move some water pipe that's sticking up, whether it might be a fire hydrant or something, to get a water main under the ground. COSTELLO: Right. Or have an extreme temperature change. That's the only other thing that I can think of that routinely breaks water mains underground.

MYERS: Sure.

COSTELLO: But we'll have much more from Utica, Illinois, in the hours to come on CNN. If we get any more new information, of course, we'll pass it along to you on DAYBREAK.

Let's head live to New York now to check in with Bill and Soledad for a look at what's coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING." A lot to talk about today.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: What a day already, huh?

COSTELLO: You're going to go live back to Utica, and, of course, what's happening right now in Iraq.

HEMMER: Indeed we are, Carol. Fascinating the videotape you brought to us 90 minutes ago, those Marines fighting literally with a photographer right there with them, this cease-fire that pretty much has not held in Fallujah. We'll tell you what's happening there. Dan Senor is our guest live. Madeleine Albright is in our studio today to talk about the future for that country as well.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And, Carol, of course, you were just talking about the tornado and how you're going to continue to update folks on what's happening there, if they're able to rescue anybody. We're going to bring you back to Utica, Illinois, as well, and continue to follow that story.

HEMMER: Also, on the topic of Iraq and many more, we're going to talk to Senator John McCain today. He's with us today as well.

O'BRIEN: That's right. He's got a new book. But we'll talk about a lot of things, including his wife's health and also lots of political questions, of course, to throw his way. And we'll talk about his book as well.

HEMMER: All right. We are packed today, Carol. Jack is here, too, with a good e-mail question, too. So, we'll get to all of it at the top of the hour here 12 minutes away.

Back to you -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, we look forward to it. Thank you, guys.

International law and the trial of Saddam Hussein just ahead. The judges and prosecutors who will try the ousted leader have been chosen. It will be a complicated case. We'll tell you what you can expect.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Welcome back to DAYBREAK. It's 6:51 Eastern Time. While there is no date set for Saddam Hussein's trial, the wheels are certainly turning ever faster. What might we expect?

A good question to talk about over coffee this morning. Our legal analyst, Kendall Coffey, live on the phone with us.

Good morning -- Kendall.

KENDALL COFFEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: There are 50 U.S. prosecutors and investigators. They're helping the Iraqis with this case. That's a lot of cooks in the kitchen, so to speak. Will we see a tribunal sometime before the presidential election?

COFFEY: Probably not. The U.S. support is an advisory role only. The Iraqis themselves are going to provide the judges and the prosecutors. And while they have borrowed heavily, it appears, from international tribunals in The Hague and elsewhere, their goal is to move on this, not have a two-year-plus trial, such as is being conducted for former Yugoslav President Milosevic. But they hope perhaps to get to this trial sometime next year, and then anticipate a three to four-month case.

COSTELLO: So, you have seven judges, plus (UNINTELLIGIBLE) five more for all we know, and prosecutors. Exactly how will this work?

COFFEY: Well, according to the usual procedure, the judges themselves will decide if they're going to apply international rules and regulations that have been developed elsewhere. And the biggest challenge, Carol, is focusing on which of the many crimes you're actually going to present, because they could get bogged down and send years trying to chronicle every atrocity that Saddam Hussein is responsible for.

What's expected is they're going zero in on roughly a dozen of the most atrocious events, including, of course, the chemical gassing of Kurds, the reprisals against Shiites, and hope to get a somewhat -- if you can imagine -- focused case out of several decades of basically a reign of terror.

COSTELLO: Let's talk about the defense part of this, Kendall. The French attorney representing Saddam Hussein plans to call U.S. officials to testify, who supported Saddam in the '80s. Will we see people like Donald Rumsfeld? Will he be compelled to testify?

COFFEY: We wouldn't expect so. But there's going to be every attempt, as there is in these kinds of cases, to make it a political show with the entire world watching. So, the French lawyer handling this case also represented former Nazi criminal Klaus Bargi (ph), terrorist Carlos the Jackal (ph). He's going to try to put the U.S. on trial just as surely as the Iraq prosecutors are going to try to put Saddam Hussein on trial.

COSTELLO: It's funny you say it could be quite a show. Let me read you a quote from Saddam's attorney. He says: "It is a trial that must be opened. We shall have the duty to look at the truth, but all of the truth. And in this manner, the links between the American government and the Iraq government are so close you cannot judge from one and the other."

What does he mean by that?

COFFEY: Well, what he means is there was a period, certainly during the time of Iraq's war against Iran, when there was U.S. support for some of the military efforts that Iraq was undertaking. The biggest problem here is going to be keeping this case controlled. You've got Iraqi jurists in a system that has not had a legitimate court order for 30 years.

So, how do you get enough on-the-job training, enough crash courses to handle what could be the most difficult trial in many decades in a reasonably prompt and just way? A huge challenge ahead of the Iraqi jurists in this case.

COSTELLO: Thanks for some interesting "Coffey Talk" this morning. Kendall Coffey live on the phone for us.

MYERS: Speaking of coffee.

COSTELLO: What a segue.

MYERS: I saw it, and I just had to grab it. Here's your chance to win a DAYBREAK coffee mug, a CNN mug. Here are the two questions now.

Joe Johns just had a report on what two U.S. Senate committees held hearings on Iraq this week? Which are the Senate committees?

And No. 2, who was the NBA player named rookie of the year?

You must answer them both, and you must send me your name and address, please. Otherwise, I won't know where to send the mug.

COSTELLO: Exactly.

MYERS: We had only 80 people get the mug question right yesterday.

COSTELLO: That was a hard question.

MYERS: It was a hard question; 450 the day before. So...

COSTELLO: It's a very hard question. Daybreak...

MYERS: We need to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) stocking up on mugs.

COSTELLO: Daybreak@CNN.com. Daybreak@CNN.com. And, of course, we'll have the winners tomorrow, as you said, around 6:10 Eastern Time.

Chad will join me for "The Lightning Round" coming up, but first here are the latest headlines for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Time for a little business buzz now.

Credit or debit? Which one do most Americans choose?

Carrie Lee has the answer. She's live at the Nasdaq Marketsite.

Can I guess?

CARRIE LEE, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: Sure.

COSTELLO: I say credit.

LEE: Credit. Well, actually you would be wrong, Carol. Visa...

COSTELLO: Oh, good.

LEE: Yes, Visa says that more people are using debit cards in terms of volume than credit cards for the first time ever in 2003. Debit card use picked up 17 percent from the year-ago figures to $1.48 trillion. Credit card use gained just 5 percent to $1.45 trillion.

Visa cites increased convenience and security. More and more people are using debit cards for everyday purchases, things like groceries and gasoline. Now, true, in the U.S. at least credit still accounts for a majority of sales volume, but on a volume basis more people are using debit cards.

And from a fiscal responsibility point of view, Carol, it's a pretty good thing. Obviously, the money is taken right out of your account. When you use your credit card, there's a temptation to maybe not pay that monthly bill on time, and then you get hit with interest charges.

So, that's the latest from Visa today. And turning...

COSTELLO: And...

LEE: I was just going to say quickly, turning to stocks, things are looking pretty bullish this morning. Motorola really soaring last night after the bell, reporting sales and profits far surpassing the Wall Street estimate.

Back to you.

COSTELLO: Oh, thank you, Carrie Lee live from the Nasdaq Marketsite.

It is time for our lighting right now -- "Lighting Round," I meant to say. Sorry.

MYERS: Oh.

COSTELLO: You know, Chad, we have to take a minute to respond to a viewer request. Yesterday, we ran out of time in our "Lighting Round."

So, Stacy in Alexandria, Virginia, wrote: "Please do not forget to show the most beautiful bulldog tomorrow morning during 'The Lightning Round. I love bulldogs and was upset that there wasn't enough time to see this beautiful face."

MYERS: Oh, Stacy.

COSTELLO: It's an objective thing, we know, but they really are the most beautiful and wonderful dogs ever created. Don't forget thank you. Stacy, her four dogs and two cats all signed the e-mail.

MYERS: Oh, look at that.

COSTELLO: So, here it is, Stacy. Bruiser the bulldog, he won the 25th annual bulldog beauty contest in Des Moines, Iowa. It's part of the celebration at Drake University, where the mascot is, you know, the bulldog.

MYERS: I was wondering what the "D" stood for. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Drake University. I had some friends that went there. They (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

COSTELLO: Really?

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Really? Well, see, I like that school. It's a cute bulldog, isn't it?

MYERS: He is. He's got a good face, yes. He could be best of show winner someday, you never know, Carol.

COSTELLO: You just never know.

(WEATHER BREAK)

COSTELLO: "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now. You make it a great day.

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Aired April 21, 2004 - 06:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the governor of Illinois will visit areas hardest hit by severe storms. At least three people were killed when tornadoes touched down in Utica, Illinois. It's what happening right now.
Also, Secretary of State Colin Powell is expected to ask Congress to delay the deadline for ending the visa waiver program. Twenty- seven countries were given until late October to revamp their systems to guard against falsified passports.

North Korea and China are moving ahead with discussions on six- party talks concerning North Korea's nuclear program. Kim Jong Il met with China's leadership over the past three days during an unofficial visit to Beijing.

And mission accomplished, at least in part. A new crew has arrived at the International Space Station. It docked this morning, after being sent into space on a Russian rocket.

(WEATHER BREAK)

COSTELLO: We are waiting a news conference live out of Utica, Illinois. It's supposed to start at 6:30 Eastern Time, but, of course, it has not. When it starts, we'll take you there live.

This year's presidential election is turning out to be one of the most expensive in U.S. history. Just ahead, just how much George Bush and John Kerry are bringing in and spending.

And later, the extensive legal preparations under way for the tribunal Saddam Hussein will face.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: As we've been telling you, a news conference is expected to begin soon in Utica, Illinois, about that big tornado that touched down there yesterday, killing four people, injuring others and destroying buildings. You're taking a live look at Utica, Illinois, this morning as they struggle to restore power there, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Still thousands of people, obviously, without power. This was a half-mile-wide tornado as it moved over the city. And so, you're seeing behind the reporter here, I had a brief glimpse of it anyway, a tree that had not only lost the small branches, but when you start to lose the larger branches, four or five or six inches, and then you start lose bark off a tree, that's when you know this storm was at least 150 miles wide.

Here's some amateur video that we had from yesterday. Hard to see what's going on here, but there are multiple suction spots of this tornado. This is a very large, wide, devastating, probably F-2, maybe F-3 tornado. We'll have to see.

The National Weather Service will actually go out today, and they will find out how much damage was done by the tornado. In fact, F-2, F-3, F-4, all those numbers, don't actually mean wind speeds. In general, we put numbers on them, but they mean how much damage was done. How far was a pickup picked up and thrown? How far was a house knocked down? How much of a tree is still left? That's how they know.

COSTELLO: So, we've seen the damage in Utica with that tavern literally flattened.

MYERS: Yes. Yes, and that's nighttime video. Wait until the daytime when we can actually get some good pictures, you know, that's not just on a camera shot with a light on it. You're going to see more devastating than just that one building.

COSTELLO: How many tornadoes, again, touched down? Not just in Utica, Illinois, but also a tornado touched down in Kokomo, Indiana.

MYERS: Correct, Kokomo.

COSTELLO: Oh, Kokomo. All right, I'll interrupt you. This is the sheriff out there in Utica.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Let's listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

SHERIFF TOM TEMPLETON, LASALLE COUNTY, ILLINOIS: There are still three people that have been confirmed to have died. The search-and- rescue effort is still going on. As you can see behind us, the cranes have been working, along with some other heavy equipment, trying to lift off the sections of floors that collapsed in this three-story building.

So, until they get down to possibly the first floor or the basement level, we may not be able to locate anyone else. And there is still the hope that we're going to locate people that are alive somewhere in the structure.

QUESTION: What do you suspect? Do you suspect there are some people down there who may not have made it?

TEMPLETON: Well, we hope that they -- we hope that they made it. We're going to hold a good thought until we find otherwise.

QUESTION: Are there folks missing?

TEMPLETON: There are people that have not been accounted for, yes.

QUESTION: How many, Sheriff?

TEMPLETON: We're thinking about probably about another four or five.

QUESTION: Four to five?

TEMPLETON: Yes.

QUESTION: And have you been in communication with them, Sheriff?

TEMPLETON: No, no.

QUESTION: Was there a birthday party there?

TEMPLETON: I don't know anything about a birthday party.

QUESTION: So, there is no more sound or anything come out of there? No voices?

TEMPLETON: No, there has been no communication for quite some time, no.

QUESTION: Yes, how long -- when was the last time there was communication, Sheriff?

TEMPLETON: Communication was probably several hours ago.

QUESTION: Any of the relatives of the trapped people down there -- have you been in contact with the relatives of these people at all?

TEMPLETON: They're at another location waiting word of what's going on.

QUESTION: Sheriff, are these communication -- can you explain that communication you had several hours ago?

TEMPLETON: It was very early on with the fire rescue people had been able to talk to some of the individuals who were trapped that were subsequently rescued.

QUESTION: And you have not heard from them for several hours?

TEMPLETON: Not for several hours.

QUESTION: Sheriff, what can you tell us about the people who have been confirmed dead? (UNINTELLIGIBLE) yet?

TEMPLETON: No, no one has been identified, and there has been no notification of next of kin, so there's nothing I can tell you.

QUESTION: Are they residents of Utica?

TEMPLETON: I don't know. There's no identification...

QUESTION: Were there patrons inside, or did they live there, Sheriff?

TEMPLETON: It could be either. I haven't -- I don't know who they are.

QUESTION: Can you tell us what the layout of the building was? Was there carpet upstairs? And what was the basement used for?

TEMPLETON: I don't know what the basement was used for. There was a bar, and there was an apartment upstairs.

QUESTION: Were there children involved?

TEMPLETON: I don't know what the ages of the people are, no. I haven't seen them, and they haven't been -- the people who have been removed are gone to the hospital. I didn't ever see any of those people. They were transported immediately before most of us got here.

QUESTION: Throughout the rest of the area, do you have any idea of how many other people might have been injured in their homes or anywhere else?

TEMPLETON: I don't believe that we have any other injuries that I'm aware of throughout the area. It's been quite devastating night for the whole area, for Putnam County as well as for here.

(QUESTION OFF-MIKE)

TEMPLETON: In here? How many homes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know.

TEMPLETON: Until daylight comes and we can actually get around and take a good look and see what is going on, it would be hard to give you an accurate count of how many homes have been damaged.

(QUESTION OFF-MIKE)

TEMPLETON: No.

QUESTION: Are we talking dozens, Sheriff?

TEMPLETON: I'm going to say there's probably certainly more than 10 or 15 probably, yes.

QUESTION: When do you hope to have power restored, Sheriff?

QUESTION: Sheriff, how soon do you expect to get into that critical area of where you are continuing to search?

TEMPLETON: Well, we hope as soon as we possibly can. The crane has been a big help to us, and the heavy equipment has been a big help. So, as soon as we get those safely lifted off, because we have to try to live those floors safely off in case there is anybody else that is alive down there, we don't want to be causing any other injuries.

QUESTION: Do you have all of the equipment you need to get this job done?

TEMPLETON: I think we've got pretty much what we need, and I think that they've been working now with it for the last couple of hours. And, yes, I think that they're moving and progressing very well right now.

QUESTION: How many different departments are represented here, sir? (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here?

TEMPLETON: Oh, there's been -- there's quite a number of departments that have been here -- everywhere from Chicago to Shawnburg (ph) to Will County. There are just a ton of them. I can't even begin to name all of the agencies that have been here. It's through the Mavis system, through the fire side is Mavis and through the police side it's Aleas (ph). And we have had both -- we've used both systems, and we've had help coming from all over northern Illinois.

QUESTION: How much manpower is being used?

TEMPLETON: A lot. There are quite a number of officers that are here and quite a number of firefighters that are here, so from all over northern Illinois.

QUESTION: Is there any indication at all or any reason to believe that there are people alive in there still?

TEMPLETON: Well, we hope. We hope there are. We haven't had any communication from anyone for several hours, but we're holding out some hope that we can still find some people alive.

QUESTION: That suggests that you had communication with them earlier in the night, is that right?

TEMPLETON: Correct. As I said before, early on there was communication, and those people were rescued.

QUESTION: Sheriff, can you describe the area where these people are, or where you think they are? Is it a basement, is that where they went to flee the tornado?

TEMPLETON: Well, it's possible. Until we get down there to find them, I really have no idea where they went exactly. Were they trapped on the first floor? Did they get to the basement? I don't know.

QUESTION: About how many people have been relocated to shelters in the area?

TEMPLETON: I'm sorry?

QUESTION: About how many people have been relocated out of the town and into shelters, roughly?

TEMPLETON: I'm going to say probably 30, 35?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty or 35.

TEMPLETON: Not a terrible lot, but...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of them have gone with other family.

TEMPLETON: Yes. They've had family members that have come to pick them up and take them.

QUESTION: Sheriff, based on the progress they're making there now with the cranes, do you have any idea of how long it's going to take them until they get down to the critical area?

TEMPLETON: I'm going to say we're still hours away.

QUESTION: Sheriff, were there people that lived above the tavern that could be among the victims?

TEMPLETON: It's possible that they could be.

QUESTION: And who were the other victims? Who could they be?

TEMPLETON: I don't know who they are. There have been tavern patrons, and I don't know their names.

QUESTION: Has the tavern owner been accounted for?

TEMPLETON: One of them.

QUESTION: But not the other.

QUESTION: This was a brick structure that came down?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sandstone.

TEMPLETON: It was sandstone.

QUESTION: Do you know how old the building was?

TEMPLETON: Do you guys know how old it was?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well over 100 years. It was one of the original buildings here in town.

QUESTION: What does it tell you about the strength of the storm that it brought down these brick buildings?

TEMPLETON: You know, from what I've seen and we've been talking about here, this was an awesome tornado that came through. The damage that it did is obviously tremendous, as you can see behind us, and it must have been an extremely powerful tornado.

QUESTION: Do you have any idea of when the governor is supposed to arrive?

TEMPLETON: I know he's going to be coming sometime today. An exact time, we're still waiting to hear that ourselves. OK, ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll try to have -- we're probably not going to have another...

COSTELLO: We're going to break away right now from the sheriff out there in Utica, Illinois, telling us of the damage estimates. He confirmed three people dead. We have reports of four people dead in Utica. And he mentioned that bar/apartment building in Utica that absolutely collapsed, and we find that it was made of sandstone, and that's why it came down so easily, although the sheriff said this was one awesome tornado that...

MYERS: It was.

COSTELLO: ... you know, came through that town.

MYERS: Obviously. And the sandstone, literally blocks of sandstone, not that they're crumbling, but the mortar in between is very fragile as well. So, they have to be very careful trying to take these bricks, these blocks of sandstone off to not cause anymore damage to whatever's down below.

COSTELLO: The other thing that he said -- and we're going to get Lisa Leiter on the phone in just a minute. The other thing that he said is that there were people still trapped in the basement of that building.

MYERS: Right.

COSTELLO: Don't know if they were alive or not. They haven't communicated with them for some time. But we do know four people died there.

And you were telling me before that it's a massive building. It was a tavern.

MYERS: Sure.

COSTELLO: And it had apartments on top of it.

MYERS: Right. A two-story building with a basement down below, and as this whole thing went down, the storm takes the building. And we like to think that the storm will move the building away from the basement and throw it in the street, throw it away from you. Well, this one obviously just crumbled. It wasn't strong enough to throw those heavy sandstones into the street. It just crumbled it into the basement itself.

So, when you get to a basement, it's not just, go down there and play pool, you know, or go sit by your bar if you have one in the basement. You want to get under something. You want to get under some mattresses. You always want to get under maybe the stairwell, because that's typically a very strong and heavy structure, or into another (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

COSTELLO: As I said, Lisa Leiter -- CNN's Lisa Leiter is on the phone with us right now in Utica.

What struck you about that news conference -- Lisa?

LISA LEITER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, what struck me about that news conference is exactly what you guys were talking about -- this building. You know, this town has structures that are well over 100 years old, and the building that the tavern was in was one of them.

So, in the words of the LaSalle County sheriff, he said this must have been an awesome tornado to bring down that building.

Just let me go over some of the details of the press conference. Three people are confirmed dead. We had earlier thought it was more, but at this point they're only confirming three people dead from that tavern collapse.

The search-and-rescue effort is still going on. We can hear in the background now the cranes and the heavy equipment that are still combing through some of this rubble here.

There are four or five people still unaccounted for, and included in that number is one of the owners of the tavern. Right now, as I mentioned earlier, 30 to 35 people have been evacuated from this (AUDIO GAP) shelters.

And at this point, you know, they think that they have everything that they need here to continue with (AUDIO GAP) efforts. Later on today (AUDIO GAP) will be visiting the area to assess the damage. And we know that local and state officials have asked for emergency funding to help with the cleanup efforts.

But at this point, that is all we know. There is not going to be another briefing from the local authorities here for several hours from now -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Something else that's complicating things near that Milestone bar that collapsed, Chad, there was a water main break underneath the street, and it's causing some flooding.

MYERS: Oh, is that right?

COSTELLO: So...

MYERS: Yes, we don't need that in the basement, right, of course, if the people are still trapped down there. But typically, that's an odd thing for a tornado to do -- to break a water main.

LEITER: Can I...

COSTELLO: Really?

MYERS: Sure, because it's underneath the ground, right? I mean, you really have to move something. You have to move some water pipe that's sticking up, whether it might be a fire hydrant or something, to get a water main under the ground. COSTELLO: Right. Or have an extreme temperature change. That's the only other thing that I can think of that routinely breaks water mains underground.

MYERS: Sure.

COSTELLO: But we'll have much more from Utica, Illinois, in the hours to come on CNN. If we get any more new information, of course, we'll pass it along to you on DAYBREAK.

Let's head live to New York now to check in with Bill and Soledad for a look at what's coming up on "AMERICAN MORNING." A lot to talk about today.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: What a day already, huh?

COSTELLO: You're going to go live back to Utica, and, of course, what's happening right now in Iraq.

HEMMER: Indeed we are, Carol. Fascinating the videotape you brought to us 90 minutes ago, those Marines fighting literally with a photographer right there with them, this cease-fire that pretty much has not held in Fallujah. We'll tell you what's happening there. Dan Senor is our guest live. Madeleine Albright is in our studio today to talk about the future for that country as well.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And, Carol, of course, you were just talking about the tornado and how you're going to continue to update folks on what's happening there, if they're able to rescue anybody. We're going to bring you back to Utica, Illinois, as well, and continue to follow that story.

HEMMER: Also, on the topic of Iraq and many more, we're going to talk to Senator John McCain today. He's with us today as well.

O'BRIEN: That's right. He's got a new book. But we'll talk about a lot of things, including his wife's health and also lots of political questions, of course, to throw his way. And we'll talk about his book as well.

HEMMER: All right. We are packed today, Carol. Jack is here, too, with a good e-mail question, too. So, we'll get to all of it at the top of the hour here 12 minutes away.

Back to you -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, we look forward to it. Thank you, guys.

International law and the trial of Saddam Hussein just ahead. The judges and prosecutors who will try the ousted leader have been chosen. It will be a complicated case. We'll tell you what you can expect.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Welcome back to DAYBREAK. It's 6:51 Eastern Time. While there is no date set for Saddam Hussein's trial, the wheels are certainly turning ever faster. What might we expect?

A good question to talk about over coffee this morning. Our legal analyst, Kendall Coffey, live on the phone with us.

Good morning -- Kendall.

KENDALL COFFEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hey, good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: There are 50 U.S. prosecutors and investigators. They're helping the Iraqis with this case. That's a lot of cooks in the kitchen, so to speak. Will we see a tribunal sometime before the presidential election?

COFFEY: Probably not. The U.S. support is an advisory role only. The Iraqis themselves are going to provide the judges and the prosecutors. And while they have borrowed heavily, it appears, from international tribunals in The Hague and elsewhere, their goal is to move on this, not have a two-year-plus trial, such as is being conducted for former Yugoslav President Milosevic. But they hope perhaps to get to this trial sometime next year, and then anticipate a three to four-month case.

COSTELLO: So, you have seven judges, plus (UNINTELLIGIBLE) five more for all we know, and prosecutors. Exactly how will this work?

COFFEY: Well, according to the usual procedure, the judges themselves will decide if they're going to apply international rules and regulations that have been developed elsewhere. And the biggest challenge, Carol, is focusing on which of the many crimes you're actually going to present, because they could get bogged down and send years trying to chronicle every atrocity that Saddam Hussein is responsible for.

What's expected is they're going zero in on roughly a dozen of the most atrocious events, including, of course, the chemical gassing of Kurds, the reprisals against Shiites, and hope to get a somewhat -- if you can imagine -- focused case out of several decades of basically a reign of terror.

COSTELLO: Let's talk about the defense part of this, Kendall. The French attorney representing Saddam Hussein plans to call U.S. officials to testify, who supported Saddam in the '80s. Will we see people like Donald Rumsfeld? Will he be compelled to testify?

COFFEY: We wouldn't expect so. But there's going to be every attempt, as there is in these kinds of cases, to make it a political show with the entire world watching. So, the French lawyer handling this case also represented former Nazi criminal Klaus Bargi (ph), terrorist Carlos the Jackal (ph). He's going to try to put the U.S. on trial just as surely as the Iraq prosecutors are going to try to put Saddam Hussein on trial.

COSTELLO: It's funny you say it could be quite a show. Let me read you a quote from Saddam's attorney. He says: "It is a trial that must be opened. We shall have the duty to look at the truth, but all of the truth. And in this manner, the links between the American government and the Iraq government are so close you cannot judge from one and the other."

What does he mean by that?

COFFEY: Well, what he means is there was a period, certainly during the time of Iraq's war against Iran, when there was U.S. support for some of the military efforts that Iraq was undertaking. The biggest problem here is going to be keeping this case controlled. You've got Iraqi jurists in a system that has not had a legitimate court order for 30 years.

So, how do you get enough on-the-job training, enough crash courses to handle what could be the most difficult trial in many decades in a reasonably prompt and just way? A huge challenge ahead of the Iraqi jurists in this case.

COSTELLO: Thanks for some interesting "Coffey Talk" this morning. Kendall Coffey live on the phone for us.

MYERS: Speaking of coffee.

COSTELLO: What a segue.

MYERS: I saw it, and I just had to grab it. Here's your chance to win a DAYBREAK coffee mug, a CNN mug. Here are the two questions now.

Joe Johns just had a report on what two U.S. Senate committees held hearings on Iraq this week? Which are the Senate committees?

And No. 2, who was the NBA player named rookie of the year?

You must answer them both, and you must send me your name and address, please. Otherwise, I won't know where to send the mug.

COSTELLO: Exactly.

MYERS: We had only 80 people get the mug question right yesterday.

COSTELLO: That was a hard question.

MYERS: It was a hard question; 450 the day before. So...

COSTELLO: It's a very hard question. Daybreak...

MYERS: We need to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) stocking up on mugs.

COSTELLO: Daybreak@CNN.com. Daybreak@CNN.com. And, of course, we'll have the winners tomorrow, as you said, around 6:10 Eastern Time.

Chad will join me for "The Lightning Round" coming up, but first here are the latest headlines for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Time for a little business buzz now.

Credit or debit? Which one do most Americans choose?

Carrie Lee has the answer. She's live at the Nasdaq Marketsite.

Can I guess?

CARRIE LEE, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: Sure.

COSTELLO: I say credit.

LEE: Credit. Well, actually you would be wrong, Carol. Visa...

COSTELLO: Oh, good.

LEE: Yes, Visa says that more people are using debit cards in terms of volume than credit cards for the first time ever in 2003. Debit card use picked up 17 percent from the year-ago figures to $1.48 trillion. Credit card use gained just 5 percent to $1.45 trillion.

Visa cites increased convenience and security. More and more people are using debit cards for everyday purchases, things like groceries and gasoline. Now, true, in the U.S. at least credit still accounts for a majority of sales volume, but on a volume basis more people are using debit cards.

And from a fiscal responsibility point of view, Carol, it's a pretty good thing. Obviously, the money is taken right out of your account. When you use your credit card, there's a temptation to maybe not pay that monthly bill on time, and then you get hit with interest charges.

So, that's the latest from Visa today. And turning...

COSTELLO: And...

LEE: I was just going to say quickly, turning to stocks, things are looking pretty bullish this morning. Motorola really soaring last night after the bell, reporting sales and profits far surpassing the Wall Street estimate.

Back to you.

COSTELLO: Oh, thank you, Carrie Lee live from the Nasdaq Marketsite.

It is time for our lighting right now -- "Lighting Round," I meant to say. Sorry.

MYERS: Oh.

COSTELLO: You know, Chad, we have to take a minute to respond to a viewer request. Yesterday, we ran out of time in our "Lighting Round."

So, Stacy in Alexandria, Virginia, wrote: "Please do not forget to show the most beautiful bulldog tomorrow morning during 'The Lightning Round. I love bulldogs and was upset that there wasn't enough time to see this beautiful face."

MYERS: Oh, Stacy.

COSTELLO: It's an objective thing, we know, but they really are the most beautiful and wonderful dogs ever created. Don't forget thank you. Stacy, her four dogs and two cats all signed the e-mail.

MYERS: Oh, look at that.

COSTELLO: So, here it is, Stacy. Bruiser the bulldog, he won the 25th annual bulldog beauty contest in Des Moines, Iowa. It's part of the celebration at Drake University, where the mascot is, you know, the bulldog.

MYERS: I was wondering what the "D" stood for. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Drake University. I had some friends that went there. They (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

COSTELLO: Really?

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Really? Well, see, I like that school. It's a cute bulldog, isn't it?

MYERS: He is. He's got a good face, yes. He could be best of show winner someday, you never know, Carol.

COSTELLO: You just never know.

(WEATHER BREAK)

COSTELLO: "AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now. You make it a great day.

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