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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Insurgents Kill 70 in Iraq; Tornadoes Devastate Midwest Town

Aired April 21, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): This is what the cease-fire in Fallujah looked and sounded like today. And in southern Iraq, terrorists used five bombs to kill nearly 70 Iraqis, many of them children.

PAUL BREMER, U.S. ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: These threats will not go away on June 30, when Iraq gets a sovereign government.

DOBBS: I'll talk about the rising cost of this war with two leading lawmakers tonight, Senator Joe Biden and Senator Saxby Chambliss.

Tornadoes devastated a small town in the Midwest. At least four people are dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hard, that some of your friends were in that bar.

DOBBS: And critics of our extensive coverage of the export of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets have introduced a new word to the debate. They call it insourcing, to counterbalance outsourcing. In our "Face-Off" tonight, a debate about insourcing, outsourcing, and what both terms means for the well-being of the American worker.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Wednesday, April 21. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Good evening.

Tonight, terrorist bombs, death and destruction in southern Iraq and the so-called cease-fire in Fallujah punctuated by a four-hour firefight between U.S. Marines and insurgents. In southern Iraq, suicide bombers killed 68 people in Basra during the morning rush hour; 18 of the victims were children. In Fallujah, U.S. Marines killed 17 insurgents in two separate battles. Three Marines were wounded.

Jim Clancy reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The charred wreckage of civilian vehicles burned in the streets after five suicide bomb attacks hit four Iraqi police facilities in the southern city of Basra.

Scores of civilians were killed and more than 100 wounded. "We were in the house and heard a loud explosion throughout the city," said this man. "We ran out to try to help people. When we arrived, we found bodies." As the wounded were loaded aboard ambulances, it was learned that two vans used as school buses were hit in one of the blasts, killing a number of preschool children as well as some middle school students on their way to class.

"I'm extremely saddened by this incident, this heinous crime against the population," said the president of the Iraqi Governing Council, Massoud Barzani. "We were saddened and we were shocked by it and we strongly condemn this as an act of terrorism."

Anguished Iraqis cried out in grief. The bombings shattering any illusions their southern city was beyond the reach of violence. Two of the car bombs hit Basra's police academy, one of them designed to strike after the initial blast as police and rescue workers crowded around the scene. Anti-coalition gunmen in the besieged city of Fallujah attacked U.S. Marines just after dawn Wednesday. Marines said they suffered several wound and reported more than a dozen of the attackers killed. Some of the fighting was from rooftops as Marines tried to neutralize snipers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your time. Make it count.

CLANCY: But some of it was at street level, where coalition troops fought running battles for three hours. One coalition commander interpreted the frontal assault as a last gasp from anti- coalition fighters who were being asked by Fallujah's religious and community leaders to turn in their weapons.

(on camera): Despite that call, no weapons have been turned in, no foreign fighters turned over. In response, U.S. military commanders refuse to allow more of Fallujah's residents to return and warned that U.S. Marines could be sent in to disarm the fighters by force, if necessary.

Jim Clancy, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Terrorists attacked a police building in Saudi Arabia today. They killed four people and wounded 150 others. A suicide bomber exploded a car bomb outside the police headquarters in the capital of Riyadh. Police said they defused five other bombs before the sixth exploded. A senior Saudi official is blaming al Qaeda for the attack. The explosion comes just days after the State Department ordered most Americans to leave Saudi Arabia because of rising fears about terrorist attacks by radical Islamists.

The rising costs of the global war on terror and the war in Iraq is raising serious concerns on Capitol Hill. Some senators say the overall cost of the war could rise by as much as $75 billion. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers, today admitted the war is going to cost more than the Pentagon expected.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The increase in violence is driving up the cost of the war. So is the decision to keep 20,000 U.S. troops in Iraq for an three extra months. Last November, when Congress approved $87 billion for supplemental funding for the war, military planners thought the money would carry until the end of the year. But that's not going to be the case.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: The increased operations tempo, keeping what's going to turn out to be a force of around 20,000, which includes the 1st Armored Division, and that's the bulk of it, additional time in Iraq is going to cost us more money.

SYLVESTER: Congress has already approved $166 billion for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. That does not include funding for reconstruction. Senators Chuck Hagel and Joseph Biden of the Foreign Relations Committee believe the Bush administration will need another $50 to $75 billion next year for the war effort.

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: It is very important that the administration be very straight and honest and open with the Congress and the American people. If they're not, there's no way this policy can be sustained.

SYLVESTER: The White House has been reluctant to ask the American public for more money in an election year, sparking even more criticism from Democrats and Republicans. White House spokesman Scott McClellan says they do not expect another supplemental this year but did not rule out the idea.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, what we have said previously, that we did not expect one this year. However, we always look to the commanders in the theater to make those determinations in terms of what the troops need to complete their work and do their job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: The biggest item adding to the cost of the war is personnel, paying the troops combat pay and keeping the reserves activated -- Lou.

DOBBS: Thank you, Lisa.

There were conflicting reports today about the future of Polish troops in the Iraq coalition. First, the outgoing Polish prime minister said Poland cannot turn a blind eye to the withdrawal of Spain and some other countries from Iraq. The prime minister said his successor would make the final decision on whether to withdraw Poland's 2,400 troops. His successor will take office next month.

Later, a Polish government spokesman says Poland has not considered a troop withdrawal.

President Bush today condemned the bomb attacks in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. President Bush said the United States is not going to cut and run from Iraq.

Senior White House correspondent John King reports -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Lou, the president directly linked the attacks in Iraq and the attacks in Saudi Arabia, suggesting that the terrorists were trying to divide the allies on the global war on terrorism and within Iraq trying to divide the United States and its coalition partners.

Mr. Bush made clear in a speech to newspaper editors here in Washington that that would not be the case when it comes to the United States. And in promising to stay the course in Iraq, listen closely to the president. Aides insist he's not criticizing his father here, but some could interpret this remark as a criticism of the choice the former President Bush made at the end of the first Gulf War.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And the Iraqi people are looking -- you know, they're looking at America and saying, are we going to cut and run again? That's what they're thinking as well. And we're not going to cut and run if I'm in the Oval Office. We will do our job. I believe that people yearn to be free. I believe the people of Iraq will self-govern, and I believe the world will be better off for it. I believe freedom in the heart of the Middle East is a historic opportunity to change the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, Mr. Bush told the editors he was there to talk policy, not Politics. But he did take issue with a statement by his Democratic rival, John Kerry. Last week, Senator Kerry said that a stable Iraq, not necessarily a democracy, was the threshold for bringing troops home.

Mr. Bush said he believed democracy was absolutely necessary to keep Iraq from collapsing back into chaos. As, Lou, as the president discussed the bombings in Saudi Arabia today, the attacks in Iraq, the recent strikes in Madrid as well, Mr. Bush said it is clear that the terrorists are on attack against those countries who are fighting in the global war on terrorism. And the president made clear he believes the terrorists would very much like to attack the United States again.

On that point, the president said this. He said: "Our intelligence is good. It's just never perfect is the problem" -- Lou.

DOBBS: John, officials today said President Bush, Vice President Cheney will be answering questions from the 9/11 Commission next week. What can you tell us about that?

KING: Well, the meeting of course long anticipated. As part of the agreement to get National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice to testify in public, the president and the vice president reached agreement with the full commission to testify together, to answer questions together.

Should make that distinction. It is not considered testimony because it will be in private. But the president and the vice president together will answer questions here at the White House next Thursday. And White House officials are saying they hope this meeting can run an hour or two, but they say there is no set time limit on it. They say the president and the vice president will answer any questions that the commission has to ask. And, of course, Lou, that testimony will not be under oath.

DOBBS: Not under oath, not public and with the two men sitting in the same room next to one another. What is the reason for them to be appearing at the same time? It is the only time that's occurred in the commission's hearings.

KING: Well, White House officials privately say they believe it makes the most sense, especially when the commission wants to ask questions about what actually happened, how did the government respond on 9/11. Remember, Mr. Bush was in Florida when the attacks took place. Mr. Cheney was here on the White House complex. Both were responsible and both took decisive actions in directing the response of the government.

In terms of building the narrative of that very day, White House officials say they think it is a great idea to have the two men in the same room together. Now, as to the questions about what the government did before 9/11, did it ignore or underestimate some the intelligence warnings, some on the outside say it would be much better to question the men differently. But White House officials say this is the deal they struck with the commission and this is how the questioning will go forward next Thursday.

DOBBS: But no suggestion from the White House as to why they wanted it that way?

KING: No. They have just said they think it makes sense.

DOBBS: OK. Thank you very much, John King, our senior White House correspondent.

Next, more on the war in Iraq, U.S. troops battling insurgents. I will be talking to Senator Joe Biden, who says the war will cost much more than the White House has admitted so far.

Scandal at the United Nations, investigators looking into charges of multibillion dollar corruption in the oil-for-food program for Iraq. We'll have that report.

And outsourcing, insourcing and the battle for American jobs, two very different views in our "Face-Off' tonight.

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: The Senate Foreign Relations Committee today held a second day of hearings on the transfer of power in Iraq and the cost of the war.

My guest tonight is the ranking Democrat on that commit. Senator Joseph Biden says he cannot remember a more consequential hearing in his 31 years in the U.S. Senate. Senator Biden joins us now from Capitol Hill.

Good to have you with us.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Good to be with you, Lou.

DOBBS: At this point, is there a clarification, in your mind and that of the committee, of U.S. Policy in Iraq and the direction in which we're headed?

BIDEN: No.

DOBBS: Not at all?

BIDEN: Not at all. As a matter of fact, the administration has yet to agree to have a senior witness even come and testify before our committee, which I find that to be astounding.

You may remember before the war, Lou, we asked that General Garner come up and tell us what the plans for the aftermath of the war were. They said he was busy. He could go on you show and other shows, but he couldn't come before the Foreign Relations Committee. I don't know if he was literally on your show, but on other shows.

And the same thing is happening again. I think they're making a tragic mistake. The American people have a right to be informed of what's about to be asked of them. And no foreign policy in this country is going to be able to be sustained without the informed consent of the American people. And they either don't have a plan or they have a plan and they won't share it. I don't get it.

DOBBS: Well, Senator Lugar, the chairman of the committee, Republican, highly critical of the administration, as are you, for precisely the same reasons. The Constitution provides a role for Congress in all of this, a responsibility, in fact. What is the next step?

BIDEN: The next step is, we're going to have another hearing tomorrow. And Dick Lugar said if we don't have answers tomorrow, we'll have one next week and the following week. We're going to continue to have a drumbeat until they come forward and tell us what the plan is.

Look, we understand that no one has a magic answer. We understand there is no silver bullet. We understand that this is a great deal of humility is in order as how to proceed from here.

But the fact of the matter is, Lou, that every witness we've had the last two days -- there's been incredible testimony -- has said the first and foremost thing that has to be done is, we have to establish security on the ground. And that is more than what we call force protection. That means protecting one another, American forces. That is our first and primary obligation and responsibility.

But, in the meantime, there is little or no order on the ground, with mothers, fathers, sons, daughters who are trying to go to school or to the mosque or to a school bus, like what happened today in Basra, for God's sake.

DOBBS: The explosions in Basra, the four-hour firefights in Fallujah as a cease-fire is trying to be sustained by the U.S. Marines there, the fact is that U.S. forces, there has been every suggestion that we need more forces in Iraq to provide the security that you're talking about. Is there any indication that that would be provided?

BIDEN: Lou, I believe from my discussions with the European leaders at NATO, with the president of France and England and German counterparts, that, if in fact, we were prepared to set up an advisory group like the contact group in the Middle East or like what we did in Bosnia or Kosovo or even Afghanistan, that they would be prepared to vote to authorize NATO to take over portions of the operation immediately.

And in the long run that would give us somewhere between 5,000 and 7,000 troops right off the bat. I've spoken with the supreme allied commander of NATO. It has been over a month now. That would be enough forces, if NATO came in, to do the job of securing the borders, take over the Polish division.

Did you hear today, Lou -- I the heard a moment ago before coming on that the outgoing prime minister of Poland says they have got to reconsider whether they're going to keep Polish troops there.

We have to solidify the area enough to make it clear that this is not a lost cause so that other nations who have the capacity to help us in terms of troops would be willing to get in to try to salvage the situation. This is more than flare-ups as the secretary of defense characterizes it.

DOBBS: Now, Senator, we did report this evening that the Polish prime minister made those statements, which the Polish government later, I'll put it this way, mitigated somewhat. But, nonetheless, the remarks were on the record.

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: Just the mere fact they're talking about that.

Look, with Spain pulling out, that's a serious blow, No. 1. No. 2, then you have nations like Honduras and other small nations pulling out. That's not much in terms of this notion of the number of troops provided, but it goes to the question whether or not this is an international operation.

And if we're just going to turn over power to a skilled diplomat -- and he is skilled -- Mr. Negroponte, our U.S. ambassador, to become the ambassador to Iraq and a super embassy is going to take charge here, that is a prescription for absolute abject failure in my view.

DOBBS: Ken Pollack you heard today testifying before your committee say, there was some question about the definition of sovereignty itself with the June 30 deadline looming. Is there really any serious question about sovereignty and what it means?

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: Absolutely, there is.

And I think the Iraqis know that we're not talking about absolute sovereignty in the sense of control of everything, including the U.S. forces that will stay behind. But this is a process.

As General Joulwan, the former commander of NATO, said, a four- star general, said today before our committee, this should be done in increments. We should lay out for the American people and Iraqi people, come June, we're turning power in the following way to the following group of people. Then they are going to be part of the responsibility of setting up a circumstance where we set up elections that we begin to write -- that they set up elections, begin to write a constitution, actually hold an election for a General Assembly in effect by January of that year.

They then write a constitution that is incremental. But this notion that somehow we're turning over sovereignty, this is the administration that said we would not have any American soldier under a blue helmet, meaning the U.N., which is their boogeyman. Well, we're going to have this, 148,000 American soldiers and a general under the command, in effect, of Mr. Chalabi and a 25-member council that has no legitimacy in Iraq?

We have got to get this straight, Lou. This is important stuff. It is still salvageable. It is still salvageable. But it requires not the U.N. to do anything. I have no faith in the U.N. in terms of being able to run anything day to day. But the U.N. has to put their stamp of approval on an international effort in this regard.

DOBBS: Senator Joe Biden, we thank you for being with us.

BIDEN: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: And, as you pointed out, the hearings continue.

BIDEN: Thank you.

DOBBS: Still ahead here, the first major storms of tornado season striking the Midwest, four people dead. Many others are missing tonight. We'll have the latest for you.

And a new fight to make prescription drugs more affordable, it is a plan that isn't popular in some places in Washington, D.C. It is very popular, however, just about everywhere else.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: For millions of Americans, the high cost of prescription drugs is nation less than a crisis. Today, a bipartisan group of senators announced plans to solve the crisis by legalizing the importation of cheaper drugs from Canada and some other countries.

Peter Viles reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: Two bottles of Lipitor made at the same factory in Ireland.

SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: Sent to Canada, sent to the United States, $1.01 per tablet in Canada, $1.81 per tablet in the United States. That is typical of what you find.

VILES: That 80 percent difference is why Congress is trying again to give American consumers access to cheap drugs from Canada and other countries.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We know it will be opposed by the drug companies. It will be opposed by the Bush administration. But it will be welcomed by someone else, by every family in every community in America who needs to fill a prescription.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Last night, thousands of seniors in my state and millions of seniors all over America went to bed making a choice between eating or taking a prescription drug. They couldn't afford both.

VILES: The FDA has long opposed reimportation of prescription drugs,, saying it can't guarantee that most foreign-made drugs are safe. But the Senate bill sponsored by Byron Dorgan would give the FDA the money and the responsibility to ensure the safety of the drugs. The issue pits two huge lobbying groups against each other. The powerful pharmaceutical lobby argues flooding America with cheap drugs will stifle research and development of new drugs.

ALAN HOLMER, CEO, PHARMA: For us to import price controls in the United States, the net result of that is going to be to create a disincentive against pharmaceutical research. And that's not what we want on behalf of America's patients and families.

VILES: But the lobby for senior citizens disagrees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

NARRATOR: That's why AARP is fighting to speed generics to market and legalize the safe importation of drugs from Canada. It's a drug war we can win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VILES: This issue also pits John Kerry against George Bush. Kerry supports access to drugs from Canada and other nations. The Bush administration, like the Clinton administration before it, does not -- Lou.

DOBBS: Pete, the fact is that the drug industry expects Americans to subsidize research and development and other countries to enjoy the benefit of cheaper drugs?

VILES: What they're saying is, these other countries are getting a free ride and the system in the other countries doesn't work and should not be imported here. But what you're seeing around the country is local officials not waiting for Congress, trying it do this on their own without congressional approval.

DOBBS: Pete, thanks very much.

Coming up next, after years of scandal and allegations, the United Nations' oil-for-food program is finally the subject of an independent investigation. Richard Roth reports.

The bloody fight for Iraq goes on. When will the transfer of power take place, at what price to our troops? Senate Arms Service Committee member Saxby Chambliss is my guest next.

And some say it is a welcome antidote to outsourcing. Others say it's nothing more than deceit, the debate over something called insourcing at the center of our "Face-Off" tonight.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The United Nations Security Council today voted unanimously to open an independent investigation into the oil-for-food program billion-dollar scandal.

Former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker will lead the investigation, which will examine whether some United Nations officials gave kickbacks to members of Saddam Hussein's regime.

Senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As U.S. Federal Reserve Board chairman, Paul Volcker could move markets and shake up governments. U.S. Secretary-General Kofi Annan named the 76-year-old Volcker to lead an independent investigation into the controversial U.N. Iraq oil-for-food program. But will the once towering Volcker have any real power to get to the bottom of a potential massive international scandal?

PAUL VOLCKER, OIL FOR FOOD INVESTIGATIVE PANEL: I'm not the FBI. I'm not the CIA. I'm not an official agency of any government. I don't have the police powers that come naturally to a government.

ROTH: After a closed-door debate, the Security Council voted to approve Volcker's panel. Volcker we will not have subpoena power, counting on cooperation from the people, he says, with authority. But some of those very same countries may want to hide involvement by their diplomats or companies.

JOHN FAWCETT, PRIVATE LEGAL INVESTIGATOR: We're talking about over 100 countries involved in corruption with Iraq, with Saddam Hussein's Iraq. That embarrasses a lot of people.

ROTH: The general accounting office says $5.7 billion in oil revenues were skimmed by Saddam Hussein and middlemen. Only after heavy pressure from members of the Iraqi Governing Council and the media did Secretary-General Annan agree to an outside investigation.

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Obviously, these serious allegations, which we take seriously, and this is why we put together a very serious group to investigate it.

ROTH: Annan's former coordinator for the oil for food program will, no doubt, be asked questions. Benon Savan's name turned up in an Iraqi newspaper list for people on the take. He has consistantly denied any misconduct at the oil for food program.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: Paul Volcker says his first report will be in about three months. One analyst we talked to, Lou, said if you want to do a solid investigation, you'd need two years to get to the bottom of this massive, complicated story -- Lou.

DOBBS: Without subpoena power, I suspect that's true. Richard Roth, thank you very much.

Well, as we reported, a number of congressional committees are holding hearings this week on Iraq and the June 30 transfer of power. My next guest is a member of one of the committees, the Senate Arms Services Committee. Senator Saxby Chambliss says the transfer of power in Iraq could help reduce the violence there. He joins us tonight from Capitol Hill. Senator, good to have you with us.

SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS, (R) GEORGIA: Good to be with you, Lou.

DOBBS: That transfer of power, now, is now in a highly ambiguous state. How, in your judgment, will it reduce the violence?

CHAMBLISS: Well, Lou, what we have to do is we have to put the government of Iraq in the hands of the Iraqis. Right now we're still somewhat of an occupying force in Iraq and that's one reason you're seeing the level of violence at the height that it is.

But when we turn that government over to the Iraqis, albeit not the government that they'll wind up with, hopefully, within the next 12 months following the turnover. But still, it's going to be the Iraqi people dealing with their own fate, rather than the American military dictating some of their fate.

DOBBS: But Senator, will not the U.S. military still be there, be there in sizable numbers to provide the security that the Iraqis, to this point, have demonstrated they cannot even begin to provide? CHAMBLISS: It's going to be absolutely necessary that the American military have a presence in Iraq for years to come. There's no question about that. We hope that the size of that force can be downsized over a matter of months and not years.

But there will be the presence of American military as well as other coalition countries that are there today. Because we are going to have to help them establish another military that has to be built from the ground up.

When you have a guy like Saddam Hussein who had a military that was taught to kill and torture their own people, you have to change that mentality and you have to retrain the real, viable and citizens of Iraq who want to see a peaceful and stable Iraq.

DOBBS: Just as you say that, Centcom is call for more troops, another 20,000 American troops will be retained in Iraq. The prospect is there, in fact, we'll have to bring in more U.S. troops, in fact. At what point do you see this drawdown of troops, given this is the worst month in the history of the war in Iraq.

CHAMBLISS: The level of violence right now, Lou, is higher than it ever has been. We have seen a decrease over the last several days, but it is still the highest it has been. And that's why Centcom is call for more troops to be sent over there.

Until we see a diminishing of that violence we are going to have to keep this level of troops there. I would hope that it will be between now and July 1. But it may be after July 1.

DOBBS: Senator Hagel yesterday said it is, in his judgment, time to consider instituting the draft. Our military is trained, as you know, very well, as a member of the Armed Forces Committee, better than almost anyone. Ask too meet challenges that are global, changing and grave challenges at that. What is your reaction to the Senator's suggestion?

CHAMBLISS: Well, Chuck Hagel is a very close friend of mine. Certainly, he is somebody that has the respect of all members of the United States Senate. And when he speaks on an issue like this, he's going to be listened to. So, certainly we need to take Chuck's comments and study them very carefully and have a full debate on this issue.

I, frankly think that the all-volunteer draft has worked very well. I just returned from a trip to Europe last week where Senator Sessions and I toured 14 military installations in 4 separate countries in four days. We were looking at the base closure issue. And what we ought to realign and close.

But we had a chance to visit with troops who had spent a year in Iraq, the 173rd Airborne Division, they've been in Kirkuk for a year. We had a chance to visit with young men and women who were on the way over there, as well as wounded soldiers. And let me tell you, the quality of those individuals is second to none. Every branch of our service, Lou, is still available to recruit and retain the very finest young men and women America has to offer.

So, I think the all-volunteer force is still working well. And we're not hearing complaints from our commanders about the quality of their troops. And they're there not in a conscription fashion, they're there because they want to be there. They love America. They've got a job to do and there to do that job.

DOBBS: The -- you mention the base closings. Your thought is that we should be closing the bases in Europe?

CHAMBLISS: I think there are a number of installation that is must be consolidated. Some of them are going to have to be closed. Some of them are going to have to be realigned and downsized drastically.

You just look at what happened in this latest conflict. The 3rd ID is based in my home state at Ft. Stuart and Ft. Benning, Georgia. Those are the troops that we transported to the Middle East. We did it in quick fashion. We supplied them.

And we can do that now. The base that is -- the bases that were built were post World War II bases and the need and the number of troops that we have in Europe today, simply does not conform with a current U.S. policy. And I think you will see the Pentagon recommend a real downsizing of those forces and those bases.

DOBBS: A downsizing of those forces and those bases, while U.S. foreign policy and again geopolitical challenges seem to be unlimited in their growth as the global war on terror has expanded. Draw down of forces and the realignment of our forces at a time when the challenges look to be generational, Senator. Does that give you any pause at all?

CHAMBLISS: No. I really don't see that as a problem, Lou. First of all, we need to think about jobs in Georgia and every other state in the continental United States versus jobs in Germany, for example, where we have a number of troops today, particularly where the national security of the United States can be protected just as easily from the continental United States as it can from Georgia (sic).

Obviously, we've made a real commitment to some other parts of the world from an economic standpoint. They get a tremendous economic boost from our troops being there. But from a political perspective, we're going to have to deal with that in a very diplomatic way. But we'll do that.

DOBBS: Senator Saxby Chambliss, we thank you for being with us here tonight.

CHAMBLISS: Sure, Lou.

DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll on the cost of war. "How would you characterize the amount of U.S. spending on the war in Iraq? Not enough, too much, or a reasonable amount." Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.

More fallout, tonight, from Bob Woodward's book, plan of attack about preparations for the war in Iraq. This time, the controversy asserted by the retail chain Pottery Barn. Potter Barn is very upset. According to Woodward, Secretary of State Colin Powell cautioned President Bush about an invasion of Iraq using what he called the Pottery Barn rule: you break it, you own it.

Well, Pottery Barn isn't very happy about that language. In a statement in fact, they said they do not have a you break it, you own it policy. Pottery Barn says, quote, "We know that on occasion accidents will occur. We see this as a cost of doing business." But Pottery Barn did say the store was flattered by the attention from Secretary Powell.

Those were among the few kind words addressed to Secretary Powell today, as the "New York Times," "The Washington Post" and "The Wall Street Journal" all have carried editorials or columns criticizing the Secretary of State.

Still ahead, deadly storms across the Midwest: a massive search for survivors is underway tonight. And is insourcing relevant in the debate over the export of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets? U.S. multinationals, many of them, would like you to believe it is. We'll hear very different points of view on just what insourcing means for the wellbeing of American workers, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Tonight, officials say deadly tornadoes in the Midwest killed at least eight people. Many other people were injured. Power was knocked out in 15,000 homes across Illinois and Indiana. Utica, Illinois, 90 miles southwest of Chicago suffered the worst damage. The town of 1,000 residents lost eight people when a three story tavern collapsed. Rescue workers are searching the rubble for survivors. Five people were found alive in the wreckage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE CHAMNESS, ILLINOIS EMERGENCY MGMT.: They're still in the search and rescue phase of the mission as long as there's hope of finding more survivors in that tavern. They're going to pick through that rubble very carefully, and that's the phase that we're still in here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: And the weather service has issued tornado warnings for Oklahoma City and parts of Arkansas tonight.

Well, over the past year, we have reported extensively on the shipment of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. Now, those who defend the exporting of America have turned to what they call insourcing. That's the claim that foreign companies create jobs in the United States which offset the loss of the jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. Insourcing is the topic of "Face-Off." Robert Scott is with us. He's senior economist of the Economic Policy Institute. He says foreign companies have destroyed more jobs than they created. And joining us from Washington, good to have you with us. And Todd Malan is the executive director of the Organization of International Investment who says insourcing is one of the benefits of the global economy.

Gentlemen, good to have you with us.

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: Let me begin with you, if I may, Todd. And that is sourcing as a counterpoint to outsourcing. How -- when did you come up with this term?

TODD MALAN, EXEC. DIR., ORGANIZATION FOR INTL. INVEST.: It is not necessarily that it is a counterpart or counterpoint. It's part of the whole complex of the global economy. If we have 6.4 million Americans working for company that is are based abroad, but have operations within the United States, that's a good thing. You guys have done a great job with putting a human face on the cost of the global economy. If you're going to do that, we have to look at where the benefits are.

DOBBS: Sure.

Robert, your thoughts?

ROBERT SCOTT, SENIOR ECONOMIST, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: Well, I think that we have to analyze this notion that we're getting benefits from insourcing. And when we look carefully at the data, what we find is that we're actually seeing many more jobs destroyed as a result of a foreign investment in the United States than are actually gained through the creation of any new firms.

DOBBS: One of the things I would like you both to address. It strikes me as -- just to be very clear, that sourcing as you have defined it and many other proponents of shipping American jobs have define insourcing in different terms than outsourcing. Point in fact, the reason the jobs are created by the foreign companies is so they would have access to an 11 trillion dollar consumer market.

MALAN: That's one part.

DOBBS: That is one part. But it is fundamental. The second part is, the reason we're shipping American jobs and the instances we're citing here is simply to kill an American job, disrupt an American family so that a U.S. multi-national can ship that job to a cheap foreign labor market for a tenth of the cost and send that service back to this market.

MALAN: But...

DOBBS: That doesn't seem, to me, to be proportionate or, frankly, a valid comparison. MALAN: But, Lou, you have to remember, these companies aren't just here to serve our market. They're responsible for 22.4 percent of exports from the United States. That's a huge contribution to our trade balance.

DOBBS: If we didn't have foreign companies building products, our exports, why we have a half trillion dollar trade deficit, would be 22 percent higher?

MALAN: No many cases, maybe.

DOBBS: Than we an even bigger problem than most think about. Is that right, Robert?

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT:: No, absolutely not. I think the way we have to look at these firms is look at what they're doing with exports and imports. Sure, exports create jobs, but imports displays many more jobs. In fact, these companies in 2001 had a 206 trillion dollar trade deficit. That means, we lost millions of jobs as a result of the net imports these companies are bringing into the United States.

MALAN: But Robert, your numbers -- we looked at your numbers. I know it is back of the envelope stuff to put on the Web site. Basically, if you look at the numbers you've done on the trade gap, you include 75 percent of that trade gap is wholesale trade. So that's U.S. subsidiaries buying product that is are already finished goods. French wines or Brazilian bananas or Colombian Coffee. Nestle is in California. They make Nescafe in California, they import coffee into the United States.

DOBBS: You're losing me, to candid. I would love for you to address.

When a U.S. multi-national kills an American job, send it is to a cheap labor market purely on the basis of price, has nothing to do with access to that cheap foreign labor market as a consumer market, but, rather, for the U.S. market, why in the world shouldn't there be a public policy against that if corporate America doesn't have the leadership to constrain itself?

MALAN: Lou, what we have to do is find out how we can make the United States a more competitive location for...

DOBBS: How does it make us more competitive if you kill an American job instead of hiring cheaper foreign labor.

MALAN: How do we keep them here? How do we keep the jobs here?

What policies can we implement that will keep the jobs here?

There is legislation in the Congress now that would lower the tax rate on manufacturing in the United States. That's one thing that will keep...

DOBBS: Good god. 66 percent of corporations in this country don't pay federal taxes anyway.

MALAN: Well...

DOBBS: I mean, I can't quite get there.

Can you, Robert?

SCOTT: No, absolutely not. I think you hit the nail on the head, Lou, when you talked about these companies using these foreign acquisitions to -- in the United States to bring in more imports. They're simply taking labels off product that is used to be made here, slapping them on foreign imports. Sure, they're completely assembled abroad. That exactly, makes my point. They're simply using these companies as a trojan horse to penetrate the...

MALAN: I really, disagree with that, Lou. I think, that is unfair. If BMW builds a plant in South Carolina and make 166,000 cars there and 60 percent of them are exported from the United States, I just don't understand why we're having a debate. That's got to be good for the United States.

SCOTT: Again, what's going on is that these companies are building car plants in the United States to bring in parts from around the rest of the world. And I looked at the trade data this afternoon. Our trade deficit in cars and trucks and parts more than doubled between 1991 and 2001. Again, these companies are bringing in parts and selling us finished cars.

DOBBS: I want to thank you both for being here to debate this. I'm going to be serious about, I would like you to come back in the next few days. This is critically important to the well-being of American workers, first and foremost. There's not much of a countervailing influence to the political and economic power of corporate America, but the there is reason in public debate. I appreciate you participating, Todd. Robert, I appreciate it. And hope you both, will come back in the next few days?

Can you do that?

MALAN: Happy too, absolutely.

DOBBS: Robert.

SCOTT: Absolutely, Lou.

DOBBS: Thank you gentlemen, appreciate it.

Apparently the president is having a change of heart when it comes to exporting American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. Well, at least the president from the NBC television show "The West Wing." According to the show's Web site, in tonight's episode President Bartlett, played by Martin Sheen, will reverse his free trader positions on sacrificing American jobs to foreign countries. Someone in the White House, even if it is just a set, seeing the light. Art, life, imitation. I can't remember the order in which they go. Still ahead, we'll share some of your thoughts about exporting America and opponents of illegal immigration lose their fight to gain control of the nations largest environmental group. Well a have more for you on the election results for the Sierra Club. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Opponents of illegal immigration failed to gain control of the board of the Sierra Club. Five candidates for the board of directors ran on a platform that included taking a tougher stance on immigration. They called U.S. population growth the greatest danger to the environment. 23 percent of the Sierra Club membership voted in the election. More than double last year's turnout, by the way.

On Wall Street, stocks closed slightly higher. The Dow up almost 3 points. The Nasdaq jumped 17. The S&P 500 rose almost 6.

Alan Greenspan had a number of things to say today, and some of them were surprising. And with that story, Christine Romans.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chairman Greenspan thinks labor market weakness is behind us. But he said anxiety many feel in the workplace will not subside quickly. The fed chief acknowledge just how tough it is to find jobs: 85,000 people a week lose their unemployment benefits. He compared that with September 2000 when 35,000 coming off the jobless rolls. And, he says, it now takes 20 weeks on average for a laid off worker to find a new job. That's up from 13 weeks in 2000.

These developments, he said, have led to a notable rise in insecurity among American workers. He acknowledged, Lou, that the American worker has not participated yet in this economic recovery.

DOBBS: These are remarkable statement the fed chairman. A humanity from the lips of the fed chairman that we haven't heard before.

ROMANS: He points out the corporate profits have done very well with productivity. But if history is a guide, it is time for the American worker to share with those profits.

DOBBS: One would certainly hope so. Christine, thanks.

Now, taking a look at some of your thoughts on exporting America.

Scott Jorgensen of Columbia, South Carolina, "I think insourcing is a good thing. I would much rather American's buy a BMW produced in Greenville, South Carolina rather than a European import." Think about that.

Darla of Eulesa, Texas, "I conclude that you have a very myopic view of economics and free enterprise. American workers must be competitive on an international environment. It seems you have a very communistic, socialist approach to resolving the issue." Well, if I may say, in point of fact, I like traditional American free enterprise. Just not the stuff that's being hoisted on us of late. Charlene from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, "instead of sending telecom operations outside this country, why don't we encourage companies to use poorer areas in the U.S. The state could give a break to those companies that build a facility in a region of the U.S. where the workers would welcome an income." Now, that's an idea to consider. I hope they do. We love hearing from you. Send us your comments at Lou Dobbs at CNN.com.

Still ahead here, the results of our poll. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight. 9 percent of you would characterize the amount of U.S. spending on the war in Iraq as not enough. 85 percent say too much. Only 6 percent call it reasonable.

That's the broadcast for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Join us tomorrow. Former national security adviser Samuel Berger testifying that the U.S. plan has brought Iraq to a dangerous boiling point. He's our guest.

We'll also be talking with a man who helped train the Iraqi police force, Bernard Kerik, on the future of Iraq and its security.

Please join us. For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 21, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): This is what the cease-fire in Fallujah looked and sounded like today. And in southern Iraq, terrorists used five bombs to kill nearly 70 Iraqis, many of them children.

PAUL BREMER, U.S. ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: These threats will not go away on June 30, when Iraq gets a sovereign government.

DOBBS: I'll talk about the rising cost of this war with two leading lawmakers tonight, Senator Joe Biden and Senator Saxby Chambliss.

Tornadoes devastated a small town in the Midwest. At least four people are dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's hard, that some of your friends were in that bar.

DOBBS: And critics of our extensive coverage of the export of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets have introduced a new word to the debate. They call it insourcing, to counterbalance outsourcing. In our "Face-Off" tonight, a debate about insourcing, outsourcing, and what both terms means for the well-being of the American worker.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Wednesday, April 21. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Good evening.

Tonight, terrorist bombs, death and destruction in southern Iraq and the so-called cease-fire in Fallujah punctuated by a four-hour firefight between U.S. Marines and insurgents. In southern Iraq, suicide bombers killed 68 people in Basra during the morning rush hour; 18 of the victims were children. In Fallujah, U.S. Marines killed 17 insurgents in two separate battles. Three Marines were wounded.

Jim Clancy reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The charred wreckage of civilian vehicles burned in the streets after five suicide bomb attacks hit four Iraqi police facilities in the southern city of Basra.

Scores of civilians were killed and more than 100 wounded. "We were in the house and heard a loud explosion throughout the city," said this man. "We ran out to try to help people. When we arrived, we found bodies." As the wounded were loaded aboard ambulances, it was learned that two vans used as school buses were hit in one of the blasts, killing a number of preschool children as well as some middle school students on their way to class.

"I'm extremely saddened by this incident, this heinous crime against the population," said the president of the Iraqi Governing Council, Massoud Barzani. "We were saddened and we were shocked by it and we strongly condemn this as an act of terrorism."

Anguished Iraqis cried out in grief. The bombings shattering any illusions their southern city was beyond the reach of violence. Two of the car bombs hit Basra's police academy, one of them designed to strike after the initial blast as police and rescue workers crowded around the scene. Anti-coalition gunmen in the besieged city of Fallujah attacked U.S. Marines just after dawn Wednesday. Marines said they suffered several wound and reported more than a dozen of the attackers killed. Some of the fighting was from rooftops as Marines tried to neutralize snipers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your time. Make it count.

CLANCY: But some of it was at street level, where coalition troops fought running battles for three hours. One coalition commander interpreted the frontal assault as a last gasp from anti- coalition fighters who were being asked by Fallujah's religious and community leaders to turn in their weapons.

(on camera): Despite that call, no weapons have been turned in, no foreign fighters turned over. In response, U.S. military commanders refuse to allow more of Fallujah's residents to return and warned that U.S. Marines could be sent in to disarm the fighters by force, if necessary.

Jim Clancy, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Terrorists attacked a police building in Saudi Arabia today. They killed four people and wounded 150 others. A suicide bomber exploded a car bomb outside the police headquarters in the capital of Riyadh. Police said they defused five other bombs before the sixth exploded. A senior Saudi official is blaming al Qaeda for the attack. The explosion comes just days after the State Department ordered most Americans to leave Saudi Arabia because of rising fears about terrorist attacks by radical Islamists.

The rising costs of the global war on terror and the war in Iraq is raising serious concerns on Capitol Hill. Some senators say the overall cost of the war could rise by as much as $75 billion. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Richard Myers, today admitted the war is going to cost more than the Pentagon expected.

Lisa Sylvester reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The increase in violence is driving up the cost of the war. So is the decision to keep 20,000 U.S. troops in Iraq for an three extra months. Last November, when Congress approved $87 billion for supplemental funding for the war, military planners thought the money would carry until the end of the year. But that's not going to be the case.

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: The increased operations tempo, keeping what's going to turn out to be a force of around 20,000, which includes the 1st Armored Division, and that's the bulk of it, additional time in Iraq is going to cost us more money.

SYLVESTER: Congress has already approved $166 billion for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. That does not include funding for reconstruction. Senators Chuck Hagel and Joseph Biden of the Foreign Relations Committee believe the Bush administration will need another $50 to $75 billion next year for the war effort.

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: It is very important that the administration be very straight and honest and open with the Congress and the American people. If they're not, there's no way this policy can be sustained.

SYLVESTER: The White House has been reluctant to ask the American public for more money in an election year, sparking even more criticism from Democrats and Republicans. White House spokesman Scott McClellan says they do not expect another supplemental this year but did not rule out the idea.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, what we have said previously, that we did not expect one this year. However, we always look to the commanders in the theater to make those determinations in terms of what the troops need to complete their work and do their job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: The biggest item adding to the cost of the war is personnel, paying the troops combat pay and keeping the reserves activated -- Lou.

DOBBS: Thank you, Lisa.

There were conflicting reports today about the future of Polish troops in the Iraq coalition. First, the outgoing Polish prime minister said Poland cannot turn a blind eye to the withdrawal of Spain and some other countries from Iraq. The prime minister said his successor would make the final decision on whether to withdraw Poland's 2,400 troops. His successor will take office next month.

Later, a Polish government spokesman says Poland has not considered a troop withdrawal.

President Bush today condemned the bomb attacks in Iraq and Saudi Arabia. President Bush said the United States is not going to cut and run from Iraq.

Senior White House correspondent John King reports -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Lou, the president directly linked the attacks in Iraq and the attacks in Saudi Arabia, suggesting that the terrorists were trying to divide the allies on the global war on terrorism and within Iraq trying to divide the United States and its coalition partners.

Mr. Bush made clear in a speech to newspaper editors here in Washington that that would not be the case when it comes to the United States. And in promising to stay the course in Iraq, listen closely to the president. Aides insist he's not criticizing his father here, but some could interpret this remark as a criticism of the choice the former President Bush made at the end of the first Gulf War.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And the Iraqi people are looking -- you know, they're looking at America and saying, are we going to cut and run again? That's what they're thinking as well. And we're not going to cut and run if I'm in the Oval Office. We will do our job. I believe that people yearn to be free. I believe the people of Iraq will self-govern, and I believe the world will be better off for it. I believe freedom in the heart of the Middle East is a historic opportunity to change the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Now, Mr. Bush told the editors he was there to talk policy, not Politics. But he did take issue with a statement by his Democratic rival, John Kerry. Last week, Senator Kerry said that a stable Iraq, not necessarily a democracy, was the threshold for bringing troops home.

Mr. Bush said he believed democracy was absolutely necessary to keep Iraq from collapsing back into chaos. As, Lou, as the president discussed the bombings in Saudi Arabia today, the attacks in Iraq, the recent strikes in Madrid as well, Mr. Bush said it is clear that the terrorists are on attack against those countries who are fighting in the global war on terrorism. And the president made clear he believes the terrorists would very much like to attack the United States again.

On that point, the president said this. He said: "Our intelligence is good. It's just never perfect is the problem" -- Lou.

DOBBS: John, officials today said President Bush, Vice President Cheney will be answering questions from the 9/11 Commission next week. What can you tell us about that?

KING: Well, the meeting of course long anticipated. As part of the agreement to get National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice to testify in public, the president and the vice president reached agreement with the full commission to testify together, to answer questions together.

Should make that distinction. It is not considered testimony because it will be in private. But the president and the vice president together will answer questions here at the White House next Thursday. And White House officials are saying they hope this meeting can run an hour or two, but they say there is no set time limit on it. They say the president and the vice president will answer any questions that the commission has to ask. And, of course, Lou, that testimony will not be under oath.

DOBBS: Not under oath, not public and with the two men sitting in the same room next to one another. What is the reason for them to be appearing at the same time? It is the only time that's occurred in the commission's hearings.

KING: Well, White House officials privately say they believe it makes the most sense, especially when the commission wants to ask questions about what actually happened, how did the government respond on 9/11. Remember, Mr. Bush was in Florida when the attacks took place. Mr. Cheney was here on the White House complex. Both were responsible and both took decisive actions in directing the response of the government.

In terms of building the narrative of that very day, White House officials say they think it is a great idea to have the two men in the same room together. Now, as to the questions about what the government did before 9/11, did it ignore or underestimate some the intelligence warnings, some on the outside say it would be much better to question the men differently. But White House officials say this is the deal they struck with the commission and this is how the questioning will go forward next Thursday.

DOBBS: But no suggestion from the White House as to why they wanted it that way?

KING: No. They have just said they think it makes sense.

DOBBS: OK. Thank you very much, John King, our senior White House correspondent.

Next, more on the war in Iraq, U.S. troops battling insurgents. I will be talking to Senator Joe Biden, who says the war will cost much more than the White House has admitted so far.

Scandal at the United Nations, investigators looking into charges of multibillion dollar corruption in the oil-for-food program for Iraq. We'll have that report.

And outsourcing, insourcing and the battle for American jobs, two very different views in our "Face-Off' tonight.

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) DOBBS: The Senate Foreign Relations Committee today held a second day of hearings on the transfer of power in Iraq and the cost of the war.

My guest tonight is the ranking Democrat on that commit. Senator Joseph Biden says he cannot remember a more consequential hearing in his 31 years in the U.S. Senate. Senator Biden joins us now from Capitol Hill.

Good to have you with us.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Good to be with you, Lou.

DOBBS: At this point, is there a clarification, in your mind and that of the committee, of U.S. Policy in Iraq and the direction in which we're headed?

BIDEN: No.

DOBBS: Not at all?

BIDEN: Not at all. As a matter of fact, the administration has yet to agree to have a senior witness even come and testify before our committee, which I find that to be astounding.

You may remember before the war, Lou, we asked that General Garner come up and tell us what the plans for the aftermath of the war were. They said he was busy. He could go on you show and other shows, but he couldn't come before the Foreign Relations Committee. I don't know if he was literally on your show, but on other shows.

And the same thing is happening again. I think they're making a tragic mistake. The American people have a right to be informed of what's about to be asked of them. And no foreign policy in this country is going to be able to be sustained without the informed consent of the American people. And they either don't have a plan or they have a plan and they won't share it. I don't get it.

DOBBS: Well, Senator Lugar, the chairman of the committee, Republican, highly critical of the administration, as are you, for precisely the same reasons. The Constitution provides a role for Congress in all of this, a responsibility, in fact. What is the next step?

BIDEN: The next step is, we're going to have another hearing tomorrow. And Dick Lugar said if we don't have answers tomorrow, we'll have one next week and the following week. We're going to continue to have a drumbeat until they come forward and tell us what the plan is.

Look, we understand that no one has a magic answer. We understand there is no silver bullet. We understand that this is a great deal of humility is in order as how to proceed from here.

But the fact of the matter is, Lou, that every witness we've had the last two days -- there's been incredible testimony -- has said the first and foremost thing that has to be done is, we have to establish security on the ground. And that is more than what we call force protection. That means protecting one another, American forces. That is our first and primary obligation and responsibility.

But, in the meantime, there is little or no order on the ground, with mothers, fathers, sons, daughters who are trying to go to school or to the mosque or to a school bus, like what happened today in Basra, for God's sake.

DOBBS: The explosions in Basra, the four-hour firefights in Fallujah as a cease-fire is trying to be sustained by the U.S. Marines there, the fact is that U.S. forces, there has been every suggestion that we need more forces in Iraq to provide the security that you're talking about. Is there any indication that that would be provided?

BIDEN: Lou, I believe from my discussions with the European leaders at NATO, with the president of France and England and German counterparts, that, if in fact, we were prepared to set up an advisory group like the contact group in the Middle East or like what we did in Bosnia or Kosovo or even Afghanistan, that they would be prepared to vote to authorize NATO to take over portions of the operation immediately.

And in the long run that would give us somewhere between 5,000 and 7,000 troops right off the bat. I've spoken with the supreme allied commander of NATO. It has been over a month now. That would be enough forces, if NATO came in, to do the job of securing the borders, take over the Polish division.

Did you hear today, Lou -- I the heard a moment ago before coming on that the outgoing prime minister of Poland says they have got to reconsider whether they're going to keep Polish troops there.

We have to solidify the area enough to make it clear that this is not a lost cause so that other nations who have the capacity to help us in terms of troops would be willing to get in to try to salvage the situation. This is more than flare-ups as the secretary of defense characterizes it.

DOBBS: Now, Senator, we did report this evening that the Polish prime minister made those statements, which the Polish government later, I'll put it this way, mitigated somewhat. But, nonetheless, the remarks were on the record.

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: Just the mere fact they're talking about that.

Look, with Spain pulling out, that's a serious blow, No. 1. No. 2, then you have nations like Honduras and other small nations pulling out. That's not much in terms of this notion of the number of troops provided, but it goes to the question whether or not this is an international operation.

And if we're just going to turn over power to a skilled diplomat -- and he is skilled -- Mr. Negroponte, our U.S. ambassador, to become the ambassador to Iraq and a super embassy is going to take charge here, that is a prescription for absolute abject failure in my view.

DOBBS: Ken Pollack you heard today testifying before your committee say, there was some question about the definition of sovereignty itself with the June 30 deadline looming. Is there really any serious question about sovereignty and what it means?

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: Absolutely, there is.

And I think the Iraqis know that we're not talking about absolute sovereignty in the sense of control of everything, including the U.S. forces that will stay behind. But this is a process.

As General Joulwan, the former commander of NATO, said, a four- star general, said today before our committee, this should be done in increments. We should lay out for the American people and Iraqi people, come June, we're turning power in the following way to the following group of people. Then they are going to be part of the responsibility of setting up a circumstance where we set up elections that we begin to write -- that they set up elections, begin to write a constitution, actually hold an election for a General Assembly in effect by January of that year.

They then write a constitution that is incremental. But this notion that somehow we're turning over sovereignty, this is the administration that said we would not have any American soldier under a blue helmet, meaning the U.N., which is their boogeyman. Well, we're going to have this, 148,000 American soldiers and a general under the command, in effect, of Mr. Chalabi and a 25-member council that has no legitimacy in Iraq?

We have got to get this straight, Lou. This is important stuff. It is still salvageable. It is still salvageable. But it requires not the U.N. to do anything. I have no faith in the U.N. in terms of being able to run anything day to day. But the U.N. has to put their stamp of approval on an international effort in this regard.

DOBBS: Senator Joe Biden, we thank you for being with us.

BIDEN: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: And, as you pointed out, the hearings continue.

BIDEN: Thank you.

DOBBS: Still ahead here, the first major storms of tornado season striking the Midwest, four people dead. Many others are missing tonight. We'll have the latest for you.

And a new fight to make prescription drugs more affordable, it is a plan that isn't popular in some places in Washington, D.C. It is very popular, however, just about everywhere else.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: For millions of Americans, the high cost of prescription drugs is nation less than a crisis. Today, a bipartisan group of senators announced plans to solve the crisis by legalizing the importation of cheaper drugs from Canada and some other countries.

Peter Viles reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: Two bottles of Lipitor made at the same factory in Ireland.

SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: Sent to Canada, sent to the United States, $1.01 per tablet in Canada, $1.81 per tablet in the United States. That is typical of what you find.

VILES: That 80 percent difference is why Congress is trying again to give American consumers access to cheap drugs from Canada and other countries.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We know it will be opposed by the drug companies. It will be opposed by the Bush administration. But it will be welcomed by someone else, by every family in every community in America who needs to fill a prescription.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: Last night, thousands of seniors in my state and millions of seniors all over America went to bed making a choice between eating or taking a prescription drug. They couldn't afford both.

VILES: The FDA has long opposed reimportation of prescription drugs,, saying it can't guarantee that most foreign-made drugs are safe. But the Senate bill sponsored by Byron Dorgan would give the FDA the money and the responsibility to ensure the safety of the drugs. The issue pits two huge lobbying groups against each other. The powerful pharmaceutical lobby argues flooding America with cheap drugs will stifle research and development of new drugs.

ALAN HOLMER, CEO, PHARMA: For us to import price controls in the United States, the net result of that is going to be to create a disincentive against pharmaceutical research. And that's not what we want on behalf of America's patients and families.

VILES: But the lobby for senior citizens disagrees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

NARRATOR: That's why AARP is fighting to speed generics to market and legalize the safe importation of drugs from Canada. It's a drug war we can win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VILES: This issue also pits John Kerry against George Bush. Kerry supports access to drugs from Canada and other nations. The Bush administration, like the Clinton administration before it, does not -- Lou.

DOBBS: Pete, the fact is that the drug industry expects Americans to subsidize research and development and other countries to enjoy the benefit of cheaper drugs?

VILES: What they're saying is, these other countries are getting a free ride and the system in the other countries doesn't work and should not be imported here. But what you're seeing around the country is local officials not waiting for Congress, trying it do this on their own without congressional approval.

DOBBS: Pete, thanks very much.

Coming up next, after years of scandal and allegations, the United Nations' oil-for-food program is finally the subject of an independent investigation. Richard Roth reports.

The bloody fight for Iraq goes on. When will the transfer of power take place, at what price to our troops? Senate Arms Service Committee member Saxby Chambliss is my guest next.

And some say it is a welcome antidote to outsourcing. Others say it's nothing more than deceit, the debate over something called insourcing at the center of our "Face-Off" tonight.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The United Nations Security Council today voted unanimously to open an independent investigation into the oil-for-food program billion-dollar scandal.

Former Federal Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker will lead the investigation, which will examine whether some United Nations officials gave kickbacks to members of Saddam Hussein's regime.

Senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As U.S. Federal Reserve Board chairman, Paul Volcker could move markets and shake up governments. U.S. Secretary-General Kofi Annan named the 76-year-old Volcker to lead an independent investigation into the controversial U.N. Iraq oil-for-food program. But will the once towering Volcker have any real power to get to the bottom of a potential massive international scandal?

PAUL VOLCKER, OIL FOR FOOD INVESTIGATIVE PANEL: I'm not the FBI. I'm not the CIA. I'm not an official agency of any government. I don't have the police powers that come naturally to a government.

ROTH: After a closed-door debate, the Security Council voted to approve Volcker's panel. Volcker we will not have subpoena power, counting on cooperation from the people, he says, with authority. But some of those very same countries may want to hide involvement by their diplomats or companies.

JOHN FAWCETT, PRIVATE LEGAL INVESTIGATOR: We're talking about over 100 countries involved in corruption with Iraq, with Saddam Hussein's Iraq. That embarrasses a lot of people.

ROTH: The general accounting office says $5.7 billion in oil revenues were skimmed by Saddam Hussein and middlemen. Only after heavy pressure from members of the Iraqi Governing Council and the media did Secretary-General Annan agree to an outside investigation.

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: Obviously, these serious allegations, which we take seriously, and this is why we put together a very serious group to investigate it.

ROTH: Annan's former coordinator for the oil for food program will, no doubt, be asked questions. Benon Savan's name turned up in an Iraqi newspaper list for people on the take. He has consistantly denied any misconduct at the oil for food program.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: Paul Volcker says his first report will be in about three months. One analyst we talked to, Lou, said if you want to do a solid investigation, you'd need two years to get to the bottom of this massive, complicated story -- Lou.

DOBBS: Without subpoena power, I suspect that's true. Richard Roth, thank you very much.

Well, as we reported, a number of congressional committees are holding hearings this week on Iraq and the June 30 transfer of power. My next guest is a member of one of the committees, the Senate Arms Services Committee. Senator Saxby Chambliss says the transfer of power in Iraq could help reduce the violence there. He joins us tonight from Capitol Hill. Senator, good to have you with us.

SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS, (R) GEORGIA: Good to be with you, Lou.

DOBBS: That transfer of power, now, is now in a highly ambiguous state. How, in your judgment, will it reduce the violence?

CHAMBLISS: Well, Lou, what we have to do is we have to put the government of Iraq in the hands of the Iraqis. Right now we're still somewhat of an occupying force in Iraq and that's one reason you're seeing the level of violence at the height that it is.

But when we turn that government over to the Iraqis, albeit not the government that they'll wind up with, hopefully, within the next 12 months following the turnover. But still, it's going to be the Iraqi people dealing with their own fate, rather than the American military dictating some of their fate.

DOBBS: But Senator, will not the U.S. military still be there, be there in sizable numbers to provide the security that the Iraqis, to this point, have demonstrated they cannot even begin to provide? CHAMBLISS: It's going to be absolutely necessary that the American military have a presence in Iraq for years to come. There's no question about that. We hope that the size of that force can be downsized over a matter of months and not years.

But there will be the presence of American military as well as other coalition countries that are there today. Because we are going to have to help them establish another military that has to be built from the ground up.

When you have a guy like Saddam Hussein who had a military that was taught to kill and torture their own people, you have to change that mentality and you have to retrain the real, viable and citizens of Iraq who want to see a peaceful and stable Iraq.

DOBBS: Just as you say that, Centcom is call for more troops, another 20,000 American troops will be retained in Iraq. The prospect is there, in fact, we'll have to bring in more U.S. troops, in fact. At what point do you see this drawdown of troops, given this is the worst month in the history of the war in Iraq.

CHAMBLISS: The level of violence right now, Lou, is higher than it ever has been. We have seen a decrease over the last several days, but it is still the highest it has been. And that's why Centcom is call for more troops to be sent over there.

Until we see a diminishing of that violence we are going to have to keep this level of troops there. I would hope that it will be between now and July 1. But it may be after July 1.

DOBBS: Senator Hagel yesterday said it is, in his judgment, time to consider instituting the draft. Our military is trained, as you know, very well, as a member of the Armed Forces Committee, better than almost anyone. Ask too meet challenges that are global, changing and grave challenges at that. What is your reaction to the Senator's suggestion?

CHAMBLISS: Well, Chuck Hagel is a very close friend of mine. Certainly, he is somebody that has the respect of all members of the United States Senate. And when he speaks on an issue like this, he's going to be listened to. So, certainly we need to take Chuck's comments and study them very carefully and have a full debate on this issue.

I, frankly think that the all-volunteer draft has worked very well. I just returned from a trip to Europe last week where Senator Sessions and I toured 14 military installations in 4 separate countries in four days. We were looking at the base closure issue. And what we ought to realign and close.

But we had a chance to visit with troops who had spent a year in Iraq, the 173rd Airborne Division, they've been in Kirkuk for a year. We had a chance to visit with young men and women who were on the way over there, as well as wounded soldiers. And let me tell you, the quality of those individuals is second to none. Every branch of our service, Lou, is still available to recruit and retain the very finest young men and women America has to offer.

So, I think the all-volunteer force is still working well. And we're not hearing complaints from our commanders about the quality of their troops. And they're there not in a conscription fashion, they're there because they want to be there. They love America. They've got a job to do and there to do that job.

DOBBS: The -- you mention the base closings. Your thought is that we should be closing the bases in Europe?

CHAMBLISS: I think there are a number of installation that is must be consolidated. Some of them are going to have to be closed. Some of them are going to have to be realigned and downsized drastically.

You just look at what happened in this latest conflict. The 3rd ID is based in my home state at Ft. Stuart and Ft. Benning, Georgia. Those are the troops that we transported to the Middle East. We did it in quick fashion. We supplied them.

And we can do that now. The base that is -- the bases that were built were post World War II bases and the need and the number of troops that we have in Europe today, simply does not conform with a current U.S. policy. And I think you will see the Pentagon recommend a real downsizing of those forces and those bases.

DOBBS: A downsizing of those forces and those bases, while U.S. foreign policy and again geopolitical challenges seem to be unlimited in their growth as the global war on terror has expanded. Draw down of forces and the realignment of our forces at a time when the challenges look to be generational, Senator. Does that give you any pause at all?

CHAMBLISS: No. I really don't see that as a problem, Lou. First of all, we need to think about jobs in Georgia and every other state in the continental United States versus jobs in Germany, for example, where we have a number of troops today, particularly where the national security of the United States can be protected just as easily from the continental United States as it can from Georgia (sic).

Obviously, we've made a real commitment to some other parts of the world from an economic standpoint. They get a tremendous economic boost from our troops being there. But from a political perspective, we're going to have to deal with that in a very diplomatic way. But we'll do that.

DOBBS: Senator Saxby Chambliss, we thank you for being with us here tonight.

CHAMBLISS: Sure, Lou.

DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll on the cost of war. "How would you characterize the amount of U.S. spending on the war in Iraq? Not enough, too much, or a reasonable amount." Cast your vote at cnn.com/lou. We'll have the results later in the broadcast.

More fallout, tonight, from Bob Woodward's book, plan of attack about preparations for the war in Iraq. This time, the controversy asserted by the retail chain Pottery Barn. Potter Barn is very upset. According to Woodward, Secretary of State Colin Powell cautioned President Bush about an invasion of Iraq using what he called the Pottery Barn rule: you break it, you own it.

Well, Pottery Barn isn't very happy about that language. In a statement in fact, they said they do not have a you break it, you own it policy. Pottery Barn says, quote, "We know that on occasion accidents will occur. We see this as a cost of doing business." But Pottery Barn did say the store was flattered by the attention from Secretary Powell.

Those were among the few kind words addressed to Secretary Powell today, as the "New York Times," "The Washington Post" and "The Wall Street Journal" all have carried editorials or columns criticizing the Secretary of State.

Still ahead, deadly storms across the Midwest: a massive search for survivors is underway tonight. And is insourcing relevant in the debate over the export of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets? U.S. multinationals, many of them, would like you to believe it is. We'll hear very different points of view on just what insourcing means for the wellbeing of American workers, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Tonight, officials say deadly tornadoes in the Midwest killed at least eight people. Many other people were injured. Power was knocked out in 15,000 homes across Illinois and Indiana. Utica, Illinois, 90 miles southwest of Chicago suffered the worst damage. The town of 1,000 residents lost eight people when a three story tavern collapsed. Rescue workers are searching the rubble for survivors. Five people were found alive in the wreckage.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE CHAMNESS, ILLINOIS EMERGENCY MGMT.: They're still in the search and rescue phase of the mission as long as there's hope of finding more survivors in that tavern. They're going to pick through that rubble very carefully, and that's the phase that we're still in here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: And the weather service has issued tornado warnings for Oklahoma City and parts of Arkansas tonight.

Well, over the past year, we have reported extensively on the shipment of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. Now, those who defend the exporting of America have turned to what they call insourcing. That's the claim that foreign companies create jobs in the United States which offset the loss of the jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. Insourcing is the topic of "Face-Off." Robert Scott is with us. He's senior economist of the Economic Policy Institute. He says foreign companies have destroyed more jobs than they created. And joining us from Washington, good to have you with us. And Todd Malan is the executive director of the Organization of International Investment who says insourcing is one of the benefits of the global economy.

Gentlemen, good to have you with us.

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: Let me begin with you, if I may, Todd. And that is sourcing as a counterpoint to outsourcing. How -- when did you come up with this term?

TODD MALAN, EXEC. DIR., ORGANIZATION FOR INTL. INVEST.: It is not necessarily that it is a counterpart or counterpoint. It's part of the whole complex of the global economy. If we have 6.4 million Americans working for company that is are based abroad, but have operations within the United States, that's a good thing. You guys have done a great job with putting a human face on the cost of the global economy. If you're going to do that, we have to look at where the benefits are.

DOBBS: Sure.

Robert, your thoughts?

ROBERT SCOTT, SENIOR ECONOMIST, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: Well, I think that we have to analyze this notion that we're getting benefits from insourcing. And when we look carefully at the data, what we find is that we're actually seeing many more jobs destroyed as a result of a foreign investment in the United States than are actually gained through the creation of any new firms.

DOBBS: One of the things I would like you both to address. It strikes me as -- just to be very clear, that sourcing as you have defined it and many other proponents of shipping American jobs have define insourcing in different terms than outsourcing. Point in fact, the reason the jobs are created by the foreign companies is so they would have access to an 11 trillion dollar consumer market.

MALAN: That's one part.

DOBBS: That is one part. But it is fundamental. The second part is, the reason we're shipping American jobs and the instances we're citing here is simply to kill an American job, disrupt an American family so that a U.S. multi-national can ship that job to a cheap foreign labor market for a tenth of the cost and send that service back to this market.

MALAN: But...

DOBBS: That doesn't seem, to me, to be proportionate or, frankly, a valid comparison. MALAN: But, Lou, you have to remember, these companies aren't just here to serve our market. They're responsible for 22.4 percent of exports from the United States. That's a huge contribution to our trade balance.

DOBBS: If we didn't have foreign companies building products, our exports, why we have a half trillion dollar trade deficit, would be 22 percent higher?

MALAN: No many cases, maybe.

DOBBS: Than we an even bigger problem than most think about. Is that right, Robert?

(CROSSTALK)

SCOTT:: No, absolutely not. I think the way we have to look at these firms is look at what they're doing with exports and imports. Sure, exports create jobs, but imports displays many more jobs. In fact, these companies in 2001 had a 206 trillion dollar trade deficit. That means, we lost millions of jobs as a result of the net imports these companies are bringing into the United States.

MALAN: But Robert, your numbers -- we looked at your numbers. I know it is back of the envelope stuff to put on the Web site. Basically, if you look at the numbers you've done on the trade gap, you include 75 percent of that trade gap is wholesale trade. So that's U.S. subsidiaries buying product that is are already finished goods. French wines or Brazilian bananas or Colombian Coffee. Nestle is in California. They make Nescafe in California, they import coffee into the United States.

DOBBS: You're losing me, to candid. I would love for you to address.

When a U.S. multi-national kills an American job, send it is to a cheap labor market purely on the basis of price, has nothing to do with access to that cheap foreign labor market as a consumer market, but, rather, for the U.S. market, why in the world shouldn't there be a public policy against that if corporate America doesn't have the leadership to constrain itself?

MALAN: Lou, what we have to do is find out how we can make the United States a more competitive location for...

DOBBS: How does it make us more competitive if you kill an American job instead of hiring cheaper foreign labor.

MALAN: How do we keep them here? How do we keep the jobs here?

What policies can we implement that will keep the jobs here?

There is legislation in the Congress now that would lower the tax rate on manufacturing in the United States. That's one thing that will keep...

DOBBS: Good god. 66 percent of corporations in this country don't pay federal taxes anyway.

MALAN: Well...

DOBBS: I mean, I can't quite get there.

Can you, Robert?

SCOTT: No, absolutely not. I think you hit the nail on the head, Lou, when you talked about these companies using these foreign acquisitions to -- in the United States to bring in more imports. They're simply taking labels off product that is used to be made here, slapping them on foreign imports. Sure, they're completely assembled abroad. That exactly, makes my point. They're simply using these companies as a trojan horse to penetrate the...

MALAN: I really, disagree with that, Lou. I think, that is unfair. If BMW builds a plant in South Carolina and make 166,000 cars there and 60 percent of them are exported from the United States, I just don't understand why we're having a debate. That's got to be good for the United States.

SCOTT: Again, what's going on is that these companies are building car plants in the United States to bring in parts from around the rest of the world. And I looked at the trade data this afternoon. Our trade deficit in cars and trucks and parts more than doubled between 1991 and 2001. Again, these companies are bringing in parts and selling us finished cars.

DOBBS: I want to thank you both for being here to debate this. I'm going to be serious about, I would like you to come back in the next few days. This is critically important to the well-being of American workers, first and foremost. There's not much of a countervailing influence to the political and economic power of corporate America, but the there is reason in public debate. I appreciate you participating, Todd. Robert, I appreciate it. And hope you both, will come back in the next few days?

Can you do that?

MALAN: Happy too, absolutely.

DOBBS: Robert.

SCOTT: Absolutely, Lou.

DOBBS: Thank you gentlemen, appreciate it.

Apparently the president is having a change of heart when it comes to exporting American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets. Well, at least the president from the NBC television show "The West Wing." According to the show's Web site, in tonight's episode President Bartlett, played by Martin Sheen, will reverse his free trader positions on sacrificing American jobs to foreign countries. Someone in the White House, even if it is just a set, seeing the light. Art, life, imitation. I can't remember the order in which they go. Still ahead, we'll share some of your thoughts about exporting America and opponents of illegal immigration lose their fight to gain control of the nations largest environmental group. Well a have more for you on the election results for the Sierra Club. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Opponents of illegal immigration failed to gain control of the board of the Sierra Club. Five candidates for the board of directors ran on a platform that included taking a tougher stance on immigration. They called U.S. population growth the greatest danger to the environment. 23 percent of the Sierra Club membership voted in the election. More than double last year's turnout, by the way.

On Wall Street, stocks closed slightly higher. The Dow up almost 3 points. The Nasdaq jumped 17. The S&P 500 rose almost 6.

Alan Greenspan had a number of things to say today, and some of them were surprising. And with that story, Christine Romans.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chairman Greenspan thinks labor market weakness is behind us. But he said anxiety many feel in the workplace will not subside quickly. The fed chief acknowledge just how tough it is to find jobs: 85,000 people a week lose their unemployment benefits. He compared that with September 2000 when 35,000 coming off the jobless rolls. And, he says, it now takes 20 weeks on average for a laid off worker to find a new job. That's up from 13 weeks in 2000.

These developments, he said, have led to a notable rise in insecurity among American workers. He acknowledged, Lou, that the American worker has not participated yet in this economic recovery.

DOBBS: These are remarkable statement the fed chairman. A humanity from the lips of the fed chairman that we haven't heard before.

ROMANS: He points out the corporate profits have done very well with productivity. But if history is a guide, it is time for the American worker to share with those profits.

DOBBS: One would certainly hope so. Christine, thanks.

Now, taking a look at some of your thoughts on exporting America.

Scott Jorgensen of Columbia, South Carolina, "I think insourcing is a good thing. I would much rather American's buy a BMW produced in Greenville, South Carolina rather than a European import." Think about that.

Darla of Eulesa, Texas, "I conclude that you have a very myopic view of economics and free enterprise. American workers must be competitive on an international environment. It seems you have a very communistic, socialist approach to resolving the issue." Well, if I may say, in point of fact, I like traditional American free enterprise. Just not the stuff that's being hoisted on us of late. Charlene from Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, "instead of sending telecom operations outside this country, why don't we encourage companies to use poorer areas in the U.S. The state could give a break to those companies that build a facility in a region of the U.S. where the workers would welcome an income." Now, that's an idea to consider. I hope they do. We love hearing from you. Send us your comments at Lou Dobbs at CNN.com.

Still ahead here, the results of our poll. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight. 9 percent of you would characterize the amount of U.S. spending on the war in Iraq as not enough. 85 percent say too much. Only 6 percent call it reasonable.

That's the broadcast for tonight. We thank you for being with us. Join us tomorrow. Former national security adviser Samuel Berger testifying that the U.S. plan has brought Iraq to a dangerous boiling point. He's our guest.

We'll also be talking with a man who helped train the Iraqi police force, Bernard Kerik, on the future of Iraq and its security.

Please join us. For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

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