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CNN Live Today

Wolfowitz Begins Second Day of Testimony

Aired April 21, 2004 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan. Let's take a look at the headlines "At This Hour."
The rising death toll in Basra, Iraq. Five car bombs this morning killed at least 68 Iraqis. Among the dead, are several school children and police officers.

In Fallujah, the Marines say that insurgents have launched three separate attacks this last night despite a cease fire. Seventeen of the attackers have been killed. Three Marines have been wounded.

In Saudi Arabia, Riyadh police today located and defused five bombs in the capital were diffused but a sixth one was detonated by a suicide bomber. It caused heavy damage to a government building. Saudi authorities have not released any confirmed casualty figures.

In the U.S., McAllister in Oklahoma, defense cross examination is under way in the state murder trial of convicted Oklahoma City bomber Terry Nichols. On the stand is Michael Fortier. He testified yesterday that he helped Timothy McVeigh study the Murrah Federal building four months before McVeigh destroyed it with a truck bomb.

The editor of "USA Today" has resigned. That is amid the embarrassing admissions reports that the star reporter apparently falsified many of the stories. Karen Jurgensen resigned after "USA Today" announced that an internal review concluded Jack Kelly likely fabricated or plagiarized many of his dispatches. Kelly resigned in January. He denies the allegations.

And just moments ago in Washington, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz began a second day of testimony. This time he is before a House committee. At issue the looming deadline toward Iraq self-rule. There is the deputy secretary.

For more on that, let's bring in our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn. That hearing now day two for top pentagon leaders, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, a lengthy hearing yesterday on the Senate side. Today they're on the House side.

But the questions, many of them are the same. What about the violence in Iraq and what is the way forward as that June 30 transition date rapidly approaches? Now, the ranking democratic member of the House committee, Congressman Ike Skelton, posed a very better question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. IKE SKELTON (D-MO), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I do not revel in highlighting these concerns but I feel it's my constitutional duty as a member of this committee. Don't blame all of the current violence on the poor planning. The lives of American troops and Iraqis who are trying to build a better country for themselves are depending on them to get it right.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: I hope everyone in Iraq and especially our enemies heard what senator, Congressman Skelton said about the fact that we are united on victory. People shouldn't get confused when we debate how best to do that there's any lack of resolve. I think that's very important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Nonetheless, a number of very serious issues ongoing. There is one especially today senior officials here at the Pentagon now say the situation in Fallujah, the cease-fire is very tenuous. That is a matter of some urgent concern right now -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And with that in mind let's talk about bringing out an old tool for the Pentagon, the drone, sorry, the Predator.

STARR: Indeed. The U.S. Central Command has now confirmed this morning that the unmanned Predator drone armed with Hellfire missiles has conducted its first missions in this insurgency on April 11 and 12.

The drone fired Hellfire missiles at insurgents, trying to attack an air base north of Baghdad. The drone basically surveyed the area. They saw these insurgents. Hellfire missiles remotely fired at the people. They believe a number were killed and wounded.

A wrenching up of the type of firepower they're us is using in this insurgency. The first use, the first confirmed of these unmanned drones during this insurgency period.

KAGAN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you for that.

Also in Iraq U.S. contractor Halliburton has confirmed that three of its civilian employees were among the bodies found near the site of a convoy attack this attack that took place took place 12 days ago. The fourth body has not been identified. Halliburton says 33 of its contractors have died while working in Iraq and in Kuwait.

Some good news for a hostage recently let go in Iraq. Thirty- three-year-old Fadi Fidal, a Canadian aide worker held captive for over a week returned home to Montreal last night. Fidel was working for the international rescue committee in Najaf this month when an insurgent group kidnapped him calling him a spy. Fidal is Syrian- born, and was abducted with another Arab, whose whereabouts are still unknown. Border security and immigration policies are under the microscope on Capitol Hill this morning that's as the house judiciary committee hears from secretary of state Colin Powell. There you see the homeland defense secretary, Tom Ridge. Mr. Powell wants congress to extend a deadline for a screening process that would target potential terrorists coming into the U.S.

To tell us what secretary Ridge and secretary Powell may have to say, we bring in Sean Callebs explaining the issues from our Washington bureau.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Colin Powell says it will take longer. The secretary of state will not be able to comply with an October deadline mandating what are known as biometric passports. Those are passports that use characteristics such as fingerprints and facial recognition to distinguish people who want to enter or leave the country.

You are looking at a live picture of the House Judiciary Committee hearing going on. Secretary Tom Ridge testified, making statements right now. Now Secretary Powell will be answering some questions later on. He made some opening comments. He says there's no question that the biometric passports will help the U.S. crack down on terrorists and criminals who try to enter the country.

He is asking Congress to extend the new passport deadline for the visa waiver program for citizens of 27 nations, Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan. The visa waiver program allows those citizens to visit the United States without a visa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I doubt whether any will meet the October 26 deadline. None of the larger countries for example, Japan, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Ireland or Spain, will begin issuing passports with biometrics by that deadline.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: Secretary Powell saying the United States is trying to find a balance between keeping the borders open and the nations safe. He went on to say biometric passports will help identify impostors in a quick, no intrusive fashion.

However until other countries are ready to comply with the U.S. law, Powell says the United States has improved its security screening. He says there's better information sharing between federal governments, state government, and intelligence agencies, and Powell says the United States has also improved interview requirements and other checks and balances at all ports of entry -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Sean Callebs in Washington. More on those hearings later in the morning.

Right now in Israel, a man who revealed Israel's nuclear secrets is freed. After 18 years in prison Mordechai Vanunu says that he is proud to have exposed Israel's nuclear weapons. And he said that his Israeli guards brutally mistreated him because of religious conversion. Our correspondent John Vause joins us with more now from Jerusalem -- John.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, Mordechai Vanunu left that Israeli prison today defiant. The nuclear technician who worked at Israel's secret nuclear facility at Demona revealed all to London's "Sunday Times" in 1986, and today as both supporters and detractors waited for him outside, his main message was a call for that Demona reactor to be opened up to international inspections.

He spent 18 years in jail for his crime, many of them in solitary confinement. He says that was Israel's attempt to break his spirit to send him insane. He says they did not succeed he claims that inside jail he was treated very badly by his guards, not because of his crime, but rather because he was a Jew, who converted to Christianity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MORDECHAI VANUNU, FORMER ISRAELI PRISONER: I am not harming Israel. I am, I want to tell you something very important. I suffered here 18 years because I am a Christian, because I was baptized into Christianity. If I was a Jewish, I wouldn't have all of this suffering here in isolation for 18 years, only because I was a Christian.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Vanunu converted to Christianity in the mid-1980s while visiting Australia. By most accounts that is where he was convinced to tell all about Israel's secret nuclear program.

Now he says he has no more secrets to tell. His first act today as a free man was a visit to Saint George's Cathedral in Jerusalem. He wanted to give thanks to his friends and thanks to God.

Israeli authorities though believe that Vanunu is still a risk. He is forbidden from leaving the country for a year and the secret services here say they intend to keep very close tabs on Mr. Vanunu for a long time to come -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And even the story of his capture by Israeli Security Forces kind of reads like a spy novel, some 18, 19 years ago.

VAUSE: That's right, Daryn. He was lured to Rome by a Mossad agent, the CIA of Israel if you like, where he was then nabbed by the Mossad and brought back to Israel and thrown into jail.

And then when he was taken from prison in a security van at one stage, he flashed his hand up with a sign saying help, I'm being held prisoner by the Israeli authorities. Next time the van made the trip outside the prison, all of the windows were blacked out.

So it has been a very dramatic 20 years or so for Mr. Vanunu, a dramatic chapter in Israel's nuclear history.

KAGAN: John Vause with the latest from Jerusalem.

Those in the business of selling sex are targeting a condom controversy. We'll take you behind the scenes in the porn industry for both sides of the debate. That story is just ahead.

The impact of "American Idol" on the music industry. Even the losers seem to come out on top. We have a music industry insider to talk about "American Idol" coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(FINANCIAL REPORT)

KAGAN: We're going to take you behind the scenes now of the porn industry. Health officials are demanding action after the discovery that two performers in adult films are HIV positive. Our national correspondent Frank Buckley explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the set of an adult video production in southern California, before the director yells "action" the performers submit paperwork, including HIV test results. The Adult Industry Medical Health Organization says it tests performers every 30 days. And it claims success in preventing the spread of HIV.

TIM CONNELLY, PUBLISHER, "ADULT VIDEO NEWS": You're safer having sex on camera in the porn industry than you are going out to a singles' bar on a Friday night.

BUCKLEY: But positive test results from two performers exposed up to 49 other performers, and that's prompted health department officials to call for another layer of protection against HIV. They want mandatory condom use in future productions.

DR. PETER KERNOT, LOS ANGELES COUNTY HEALTH DEPT.: The issue is about the employee and their safety and their well-being and their risk, and we would know more send a worker near a job site without a hardhat. We would no more recommend that a person drive a car without a safety belt.

BUCKLEY: But industry inside insiders say a condom only policy would drive production out of the country, where even testing of performers couldn't be assured.

RON JEREMY, ADULT FILM PRODUCER, ACTOR: If we were to go condom only in America, half of the companies would go out of business.

BUCKLEY: Right now, industry experts say only two of roughly 200 production companies in southern California have a condom only policy.

UNIDENTIFIED female: I came out new and I came out raw.

BUCKLEY: Vivid entertainment group is one of the companies. Steven Hirsch says he believes regulators have it right but that the industry should regulate itself.

STEVEN HIRSCH, VIVID ENTERTAINMENT GROUP: It is much more important that the people that we work with day in and day out are safe. That's what we aim for.

BUCKLEY (on camera): On Thursday, representatives of the adult video industry say they'll announce the results of tests that will show whether the HIV has spread beyond the two performers who've already been identified. Much is at stake. A multi billion-dollar industry and the lives of its performers.

Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: We are going to look at a different part of the entertainment industry, "American Idol." Who will be the next "American Idol" and what will it mean for the music industry? We'll talk to an expert.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right lets do it again, America. You are in control. Get ready to decide the destiny of one more contestant. Seven singers at your mercy on the number one show across the country. You are watching "American Idol."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Millions of people have been watching "American Idol." Only seven remain. Last night one sang like a dream. Another made a musical mess. Forget Simon, Randy and Paula. It seems everybody's the judge of "American Idol."

Who will be exiting stage left tonight and what has the show done for or to the music industry? Here to talk about that, producer/songwriter Daryl Simmons. We went and found our own industry insider to give us the scoop on "American Idol."

Have you been as glued to the show as so many millions of Americans?

DARYL SIMMONS, CEO, SILENT PARTNER PRODUCTIONS: Yeah. I have been, when it gets down to the nitty gritty and you start to see who really has the talent, then I start to tune in and really listen to the comments and see who's right.

KAGAN: I think we're in that nitty gritty time, down to seven.

SIMMONS: You got to step it up now.

KAGAN: I want your input on this as a producer and a songwriter yourself. Props to Barry Manilow last night, who was the guest artist who took his songs, even though many of them never heard of Barry Manilow, but took his songs and recomposed them so that they would have a fresh new sound and fit these younger singers.

SIMMONS: I thought that was very good. To see them work with a real producer, song writer, you got to see who could handle it and who couldn't handle it. I thought that was very, very key last night.

KAGAN: So let's get right to it. Who do you think is getting voted off tonight?

SIMMONS: I think John is.

KAGAN: The redhead, John Stevens?

SIMMONS: Yes. I think when it comes down to it and this is where it shows, just because you can sing doesn't mean necessarily that you have what it takes to make that record, you know, to take that song and make it yours. That's what Barry was talking about, taking that, telling the story, making it heartfelt, and he didn't do that, and he told on himself.

KAGAN: Or he sang "Mandy."

SIMMONS: One of the greatest Barry Manilow songs.

KAGAN: Simon said Mandy fell asleep. A lot of people are going to roll their eyes when Simon Cowell has his comments. But you understand where he's coming from.

SIMMONS: Simon is right on. I'm Simon, sitting in that seat. They're my comments exactly. You got to let these kids know. You know, you can't play with them. If they're thinking that they're an "American Idol," have what it takes, this is a hard gig. Just because you strand up there and sing once the lights are out and the "American Idol" crowd and all of the hype is gone, you got to stand on your own.

KAGAN: And Simon talks and you are a developer of young talent so you're out there doing the same thing in your business. Simon also talks about not just because can you sing and stand up; there is that he "it" quality, that star quality. Who do you see that has that among the remaining seven?

SIMMONS: You know, it's like all of them have bits of it to me. I still don't see one person that totally has the whole thing.

KAGAN: LaToya, Fantasia. It doesn't quite...

SIMMONS: You see great personalities in Fantasia, great personality in George. Great voice in Diana. I love Diana's voice the best. She could make a great record. But then you worry about the image part.

KAGAN: Diana is from not too far from here, in Atlanta, Georgia.

SIMMONS: I love her voice. Hands down, has the best voice. As far as making a commercial record, we're talking about the record business, we're not talking about just singing, it's the entertainment business. You got to be able to sell the records for the record company.

KAGAN: So if you look at that and look at what "American idol" has done and the stars they've created, Kelly Clarkson, Clay Aiken, Ruben Studdard, are these people who would have necessarily gotten record contracts? These are picking people out of America, don't you think?

SIMMONS: I think it could but it would have taken longer.

KAGAN: What who would have given Clay Aiken a shot?

SIMMONS: I think it would have come through another way. It wouldn't have been as big, as promoted. You know what I mean? I think in their own kind of a way, there are a lot of labels out there, a lot of small labels a lot of subsidiaries, people do records on their own label, you know what I mean?

KAGAN: Is this actually the show like this, is this good for the music industry?

SIMMONS: I think it's good in one way, that it kind of puts that talent in front of us. It lets us see what's out there in America. It's not all the talent, though, you know what I mean? So it does let us see.

You know how I look at it? It's a good start for kids like that to meet it's not necessarily the end. A lot of kids think if I win this, I've made it. That's not the case. To me this is the beginning. This is your shot and what you make of it is up to you now.

KAGAN: I didn't press you on who is ultimately going to be the "American Idol." Do you think this is a weaker crop than the last two that we've seen?

SIMMONS: Yeah, I look at it and this is my opinion. I think there has to be a winner but I don't think necessarily that there's an "American Idol."

KAGAN: Interesting.

SIMMONS: You know what I mean but there has to be a winner, but I don't think that person is still at an "idol" stage yet.

KAGAN: A couple of weeks ago we had Ruben Studdard here sitting in that very seat where you are. And Simon said he'd pay him to come back to come back and do it again. Daryl Simmons you're a busy guy. Thanks for stopping by.

SIMMONS: Thank you so much for having me.

KAGAN: We'll watch tonight to see who gets knocked off. Well you can learn a lot more about learn more about "American Idol" by visiting cnn.com/entertainment.

We're back in a flash. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 21, 2004 - 10:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan. Let's take a look at the headlines "At This Hour."
The rising death toll in Basra, Iraq. Five car bombs this morning killed at least 68 Iraqis. Among the dead, are several school children and police officers.

In Fallujah, the Marines say that insurgents have launched three separate attacks this last night despite a cease fire. Seventeen of the attackers have been killed. Three Marines have been wounded.

In Saudi Arabia, Riyadh police today located and defused five bombs in the capital were diffused but a sixth one was detonated by a suicide bomber. It caused heavy damage to a government building. Saudi authorities have not released any confirmed casualty figures.

In the U.S., McAllister in Oklahoma, defense cross examination is under way in the state murder trial of convicted Oklahoma City bomber Terry Nichols. On the stand is Michael Fortier. He testified yesterday that he helped Timothy McVeigh study the Murrah Federal building four months before McVeigh destroyed it with a truck bomb.

The editor of "USA Today" has resigned. That is amid the embarrassing admissions reports that the star reporter apparently falsified many of the stories. Karen Jurgensen resigned after "USA Today" announced that an internal review concluded Jack Kelly likely fabricated or plagiarized many of his dispatches. Kelly resigned in January. He denies the allegations.

And just moments ago in Washington, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz began a second day of testimony. This time he is before a House committee. At issue the looming deadline toward Iraq self-rule. There is the deputy secretary.

For more on that, let's bring in our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Daryn. That hearing now day two for top pentagon leaders, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, a lengthy hearing yesterday on the Senate side. Today they're on the House side.

But the questions, many of them are the same. What about the violence in Iraq and what is the way forward as that June 30 transition date rapidly approaches? Now, the ranking democratic member of the House committee, Congressman Ike Skelton, posed a very better question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. IKE SKELTON (D-MO), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: I do not revel in highlighting these concerns but I feel it's my constitutional duty as a member of this committee. Don't blame all of the current violence on the poor planning. The lives of American troops and Iraqis who are trying to build a better country for themselves are depending on them to get it right.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: I hope everyone in Iraq and especially our enemies heard what senator, Congressman Skelton said about the fact that we are united on victory. People shouldn't get confused when we debate how best to do that there's any lack of resolve. I think that's very important.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: Nonetheless, a number of very serious issues ongoing. There is one especially today senior officials here at the Pentagon now say the situation in Fallujah, the cease-fire is very tenuous. That is a matter of some urgent concern right now -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And with that in mind let's talk about bringing out an old tool for the Pentagon, the drone, sorry, the Predator.

STARR: Indeed. The U.S. Central Command has now confirmed this morning that the unmanned Predator drone armed with Hellfire missiles has conducted its first missions in this insurgency on April 11 and 12.

The drone fired Hellfire missiles at insurgents, trying to attack an air base north of Baghdad. The drone basically surveyed the area. They saw these insurgents. Hellfire missiles remotely fired at the people. They believe a number were killed and wounded.

A wrenching up of the type of firepower they're us is using in this insurgency. The first use, the first confirmed of these unmanned drones during this insurgency period.

KAGAN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you for that.

Also in Iraq U.S. contractor Halliburton has confirmed that three of its civilian employees were among the bodies found near the site of a convoy attack this attack that took place took place 12 days ago. The fourth body has not been identified. Halliburton says 33 of its contractors have died while working in Iraq and in Kuwait.

Some good news for a hostage recently let go in Iraq. Thirty- three-year-old Fadi Fidal, a Canadian aide worker held captive for over a week returned home to Montreal last night. Fidel was working for the international rescue committee in Najaf this month when an insurgent group kidnapped him calling him a spy. Fidal is Syrian- born, and was abducted with another Arab, whose whereabouts are still unknown. Border security and immigration policies are under the microscope on Capitol Hill this morning that's as the house judiciary committee hears from secretary of state Colin Powell. There you see the homeland defense secretary, Tom Ridge. Mr. Powell wants congress to extend a deadline for a screening process that would target potential terrorists coming into the U.S.

To tell us what secretary Ridge and secretary Powell may have to say, we bring in Sean Callebs explaining the issues from our Washington bureau.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Colin Powell says it will take longer. The secretary of state will not be able to comply with an October deadline mandating what are known as biometric passports. Those are passports that use characteristics such as fingerprints and facial recognition to distinguish people who want to enter or leave the country.

You are looking at a live picture of the House Judiciary Committee hearing going on. Secretary Tom Ridge testified, making statements right now. Now Secretary Powell will be answering some questions later on. He made some opening comments. He says there's no question that the biometric passports will help the U.S. crack down on terrorists and criminals who try to enter the country.

He is asking Congress to extend the new passport deadline for the visa waiver program for citizens of 27 nations, Great Britain, France, Germany, Japan. The visa waiver program allows those citizens to visit the United States without a visa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: I doubt whether any will meet the October 26 deadline. None of the larger countries for example, Japan, the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy, Ireland or Spain, will begin issuing passports with biometrics by that deadline.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CALLEBS: Secretary Powell saying the United States is trying to find a balance between keeping the borders open and the nations safe. He went on to say biometric passports will help identify impostors in a quick, no intrusive fashion.

However until other countries are ready to comply with the U.S. law, Powell says the United States has improved its security screening. He says there's better information sharing between federal governments, state government, and intelligence agencies, and Powell says the United States has also improved interview requirements and other checks and balances at all ports of entry -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Sean Callebs in Washington. More on those hearings later in the morning.

Right now in Israel, a man who revealed Israel's nuclear secrets is freed. After 18 years in prison Mordechai Vanunu says that he is proud to have exposed Israel's nuclear weapons. And he said that his Israeli guards brutally mistreated him because of religious conversion. Our correspondent John Vause joins us with more now from Jerusalem -- John.

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, Mordechai Vanunu left that Israeli prison today defiant. The nuclear technician who worked at Israel's secret nuclear facility at Demona revealed all to London's "Sunday Times" in 1986, and today as both supporters and detractors waited for him outside, his main message was a call for that Demona reactor to be opened up to international inspections.

He spent 18 years in jail for his crime, many of them in solitary confinement. He says that was Israel's attempt to break his spirit to send him insane. He says they did not succeed he claims that inside jail he was treated very badly by his guards, not because of his crime, but rather because he was a Jew, who converted to Christianity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MORDECHAI VANUNU, FORMER ISRAELI PRISONER: I am not harming Israel. I am, I want to tell you something very important. I suffered here 18 years because I am a Christian, because I was baptized into Christianity. If I was a Jewish, I wouldn't have all of this suffering here in isolation for 18 years, only because I was a Christian.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Vanunu converted to Christianity in the mid-1980s while visiting Australia. By most accounts that is where he was convinced to tell all about Israel's secret nuclear program.

Now he says he has no more secrets to tell. His first act today as a free man was a visit to Saint George's Cathedral in Jerusalem. He wanted to give thanks to his friends and thanks to God.

Israeli authorities though believe that Vanunu is still a risk. He is forbidden from leaving the country for a year and the secret services here say they intend to keep very close tabs on Mr. Vanunu for a long time to come -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And even the story of his capture by Israeli Security Forces kind of reads like a spy novel, some 18, 19 years ago.

VAUSE: That's right, Daryn. He was lured to Rome by a Mossad agent, the CIA of Israel if you like, where he was then nabbed by the Mossad and brought back to Israel and thrown into jail.

And then when he was taken from prison in a security van at one stage, he flashed his hand up with a sign saying help, I'm being held prisoner by the Israeli authorities. Next time the van made the trip outside the prison, all of the windows were blacked out.

So it has been a very dramatic 20 years or so for Mr. Vanunu, a dramatic chapter in Israel's nuclear history.

KAGAN: John Vause with the latest from Jerusalem.

Those in the business of selling sex are targeting a condom controversy. We'll take you behind the scenes in the porn industry for both sides of the debate. That story is just ahead.

The impact of "American Idol" on the music industry. Even the losers seem to come out on top. We have a music industry insider to talk about "American Idol" coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(FINANCIAL REPORT)

KAGAN: We're going to take you behind the scenes now of the porn industry. Health officials are demanding action after the discovery that two performers in adult films are HIV positive. Our national correspondent Frank Buckley explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the set of an adult video production in southern California, before the director yells "action" the performers submit paperwork, including HIV test results. The Adult Industry Medical Health Organization says it tests performers every 30 days. And it claims success in preventing the spread of HIV.

TIM CONNELLY, PUBLISHER, "ADULT VIDEO NEWS": You're safer having sex on camera in the porn industry than you are going out to a singles' bar on a Friday night.

BUCKLEY: But positive test results from two performers exposed up to 49 other performers, and that's prompted health department officials to call for another layer of protection against HIV. They want mandatory condom use in future productions.

DR. PETER KERNOT, LOS ANGELES COUNTY HEALTH DEPT.: The issue is about the employee and their safety and their well-being and their risk, and we would know more send a worker near a job site without a hardhat. We would no more recommend that a person drive a car without a safety belt.

BUCKLEY: But industry inside insiders say a condom only policy would drive production out of the country, where even testing of performers couldn't be assured.

RON JEREMY, ADULT FILM PRODUCER, ACTOR: If we were to go condom only in America, half of the companies would go out of business.

BUCKLEY: Right now, industry experts say only two of roughly 200 production companies in southern California have a condom only policy.

UNIDENTIFIED female: I came out new and I came out raw.

BUCKLEY: Vivid entertainment group is one of the companies. Steven Hirsch says he believes regulators have it right but that the industry should regulate itself.

STEVEN HIRSCH, VIVID ENTERTAINMENT GROUP: It is much more important that the people that we work with day in and day out are safe. That's what we aim for.

BUCKLEY (on camera): On Thursday, representatives of the adult video industry say they'll announce the results of tests that will show whether the HIV has spread beyond the two performers who've already been identified. Much is at stake. A multi billion-dollar industry and the lives of its performers.

Frank Buckley, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: We are going to look at a different part of the entertainment industry, "American Idol." Who will be the next "American Idol" and what will it mean for the music industry? We'll talk to an expert.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right lets do it again, America. You are in control. Get ready to decide the destiny of one more contestant. Seven singers at your mercy on the number one show across the country. You are watching "American Idol."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Millions of people have been watching "American Idol." Only seven remain. Last night one sang like a dream. Another made a musical mess. Forget Simon, Randy and Paula. It seems everybody's the judge of "American Idol."

Who will be exiting stage left tonight and what has the show done for or to the music industry? Here to talk about that, producer/songwriter Daryl Simmons. We went and found our own industry insider to give us the scoop on "American Idol."

Have you been as glued to the show as so many millions of Americans?

DARYL SIMMONS, CEO, SILENT PARTNER PRODUCTIONS: Yeah. I have been, when it gets down to the nitty gritty and you start to see who really has the talent, then I start to tune in and really listen to the comments and see who's right.

KAGAN: I think we're in that nitty gritty time, down to seven.

SIMMONS: You got to step it up now.

KAGAN: I want your input on this as a producer and a songwriter yourself. Props to Barry Manilow last night, who was the guest artist who took his songs, even though many of them never heard of Barry Manilow, but took his songs and recomposed them so that they would have a fresh new sound and fit these younger singers.

SIMMONS: I thought that was very good. To see them work with a real producer, song writer, you got to see who could handle it and who couldn't handle it. I thought that was very, very key last night.

KAGAN: So let's get right to it. Who do you think is getting voted off tonight?

SIMMONS: I think John is.

KAGAN: The redhead, John Stevens?

SIMMONS: Yes. I think when it comes down to it and this is where it shows, just because you can sing doesn't mean necessarily that you have what it takes to make that record, you know, to take that song and make it yours. That's what Barry was talking about, taking that, telling the story, making it heartfelt, and he didn't do that, and he told on himself.

KAGAN: Or he sang "Mandy."

SIMMONS: One of the greatest Barry Manilow songs.

KAGAN: Simon said Mandy fell asleep. A lot of people are going to roll their eyes when Simon Cowell has his comments. But you understand where he's coming from.

SIMMONS: Simon is right on. I'm Simon, sitting in that seat. They're my comments exactly. You got to let these kids know. You know, you can't play with them. If they're thinking that they're an "American Idol," have what it takes, this is a hard gig. Just because you strand up there and sing once the lights are out and the "American Idol" crowd and all of the hype is gone, you got to stand on your own.

KAGAN: And Simon talks and you are a developer of young talent so you're out there doing the same thing in your business. Simon also talks about not just because can you sing and stand up; there is that he "it" quality, that star quality. Who do you see that has that among the remaining seven?

SIMMONS: You know, it's like all of them have bits of it to me. I still don't see one person that totally has the whole thing.

KAGAN: LaToya, Fantasia. It doesn't quite...

SIMMONS: You see great personalities in Fantasia, great personality in George. Great voice in Diana. I love Diana's voice the best. She could make a great record. But then you worry about the image part.

KAGAN: Diana is from not too far from here, in Atlanta, Georgia.

SIMMONS: I love her voice. Hands down, has the best voice. As far as making a commercial record, we're talking about the record business, we're not talking about just singing, it's the entertainment business. You got to be able to sell the records for the record company.

KAGAN: So if you look at that and look at what "American idol" has done and the stars they've created, Kelly Clarkson, Clay Aiken, Ruben Studdard, are these people who would have necessarily gotten record contracts? These are picking people out of America, don't you think?

SIMMONS: I think it could but it would have taken longer.

KAGAN: What who would have given Clay Aiken a shot?

SIMMONS: I think it would have come through another way. It wouldn't have been as big, as promoted. You know what I mean? I think in their own kind of a way, there are a lot of labels out there, a lot of small labels a lot of subsidiaries, people do records on their own label, you know what I mean?

KAGAN: Is this actually the show like this, is this good for the music industry?

SIMMONS: I think it's good in one way, that it kind of puts that talent in front of us. It lets us see what's out there in America. It's not all the talent, though, you know what I mean? So it does let us see.

You know how I look at it? It's a good start for kids like that to meet it's not necessarily the end. A lot of kids think if I win this, I've made it. That's not the case. To me this is the beginning. This is your shot and what you make of it is up to you now.

KAGAN: I didn't press you on who is ultimately going to be the "American Idol." Do you think this is a weaker crop than the last two that we've seen?

SIMMONS: Yeah, I look at it and this is my opinion. I think there has to be a winner but I don't think necessarily that there's an "American Idol."

KAGAN: Interesting.

SIMMONS: You know what I mean but there has to be a winner, but I don't think that person is still at an "idol" stage yet.

KAGAN: A couple of weeks ago we had Ruben Studdard here sitting in that very seat where you are. And Simon said he'd pay him to come back to come back and do it again. Daryl Simmons you're a busy guy. Thanks for stopping by.

SIMMONS: Thank you so much for having me.

KAGAN: We'll watch tonight to see who gets knocked off. Well you can learn a lot more about learn more about "American Idol" by visiting cnn.com/entertainment.

We're back in a flash. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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