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CNN Live At Daybreak
Privacy in Bush Administration; Coffey Talk: Supreme Court Hears Cheney, Rumsfeld Cases; America's Voice: Hot Topics
Aired April 27, 2004 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Although the White House argues executive privilege, critics say it's a case of something to hide. The Supreme Court must decide if it takes up a nearly three-year-old concerning vice presidential records.
CNN's John King lays it all out for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the campaign trail, a very public role leading the attack against Democrat John Kerry.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is irresponsible to vote against vital the support for the United States military.
KING: But this is a vice president whose most important work is done in private, in the Oval Office here, and who is the leader of an aggressive effort to defend a president's right to conduct some business in secret.
ALBERTO GONZALES, WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Well, you know, we don't operate in government on a baseline that everything is open to the public.
KING: At issue now, a Supreme Court case about whether some records of the vice president's energy task force should be made public. A lower court said yes, and the White House appealed.
Democrats in Congress and other critics call it proof of a White House obsessed with secrecy on issues ranging from the energy task force to blocking access to information about terror suspects detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
CHERYL MILLS, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY COUNSEL: This administration is much more conservative on the issue of privilege and much more, I'd say, aggressive about asserting it or asserting those things that are similar to it.
KING: Not so, says the president's top lawyer.
GONZALES: In most cases, we are able to reach an accommodation, and that's why in the history of this administration only once has this president asserted executive privilege. KING: Just recently, these compromises: the 9/11 Commission finally won access to a presidential intelligence briefing Mr. Bush received five weeks before the terrorist attacks. And National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice testified before the commission after months in which the White House said no.
NORMAN ORNSTEIN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Every president, liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican, oftentimes, faced with immediate political pressures, has kind of caved or given in on executive responsibilities.
KING: That the White House did not give in this time and appealed the energy task force case to the Supreme Court reflects Mr. Cheney's unrivaled clout within the White House.
(on camera): And it reflects the vice president's view that presidential power has been under attack for 30 years, beginning with Watergate and including a decision by the first president he worked for, Gerald Ford, to testify to Congress about his decision to pardon Richard Nixon.
John King, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: The vice president isn't the only member of the Bush administration whose name will come up in Supreme Court cases this week.
Time for some "Coffey Talk" right now. On the phone from Miami, our legal analyst, Kendall Coffey.
Good morning -- Kendall.
KENDALL COFFEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: The other name, Donald Rumsfeld. Run us down these cases.
COFFEY: Well, the one that's going to be argued today is the one that was just described by John King, and that deals with the issue of whether or not the White House energy task force's records, which includes closed-doors meetings, is going to be subject to public scrutiny. Administration lawyers say the court-ordered disclosure would undermine the president's ability to get candid advice.
Challengers say that the public has a right to know, especially because one of the alleged members giving energy advice was none other than former Enron CEO Kenneth Lay.
The other big case is going to be heard tomorrow, Carol, and that involves, of course, the enemy combatant issue.
COSTELLO: Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, he's an enemy combatant. No charges were ever filed against him, correct? COFFEY: Two big cases tomorrow. One is Yaser Hamdi, who was captured on the battlefields of Afghanistan. A U.S. citizen being held incommunicado for months, no access to lawyers or anyone else.
The other case in some ways is even more controversial, because Jose Padilla (ph), also designated a U.S. -- also a U.S. citizen designated an enemy combatant -- was actually captured not on a foreign battlefield, but was arrested at Chicago's O'Hare Airport.
COSTELLO: And do you think that the justices will take into account the cases of John Walker Lindh and Zacarias Moussaoui, although they're slightly different?
COFFEY: The cases are different, but they're looking at the same general landscape; that is the tradeoff between national security and individual liberty. And especially with the cases of two U.S. citizens who are being held by U.S. authorities on U.S. territories without even getting criminal charges or an opportunity to defend themselves, essentially incommunicado, I think it's going to be the toughest test ever of the administration's aggressive use of new legal strategies in dealing with the unprecedented challenges of the war on terrorism.
COSTELLO: So, does that mean you're predicting the administration will lose?
COFFEY: I think they're going to lose one of the two cases tomorrow, possibly both. I think that to basically say that a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil loses the Bill of Rights is going to be a very, very tough one.
And, Carol, even the Guantanamo Bay case, where I thought the administration was on very strong ground legally last week, got a lot of tough questioning from some of the justices. So, as they get into these (UNINTELLIGIBLE) cases, it's not clear that the administration is going to win all of them, by any means.
COSTELLO: We'll be following those cases. Kendall Coffey, live on the phone from Miami this morning.
We have some new numbers for you this morning. America is speaking out about the investigation into September 11.
Let's head live to Princeton, New Jersey, and Gallup Poll editor- in-chief Frank Newport.
Frank, up first this morning.
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Well, up first this morning, we're looking ahead this week, and we are going to see -- well, we're actually going to see, because it's a private session. We're going to hear about Bush, the president, and Cheney, the vice president, in that famous testimony they're going to be giving on Thursday; famous, because of all of the questions about why they're doing it together and so on and so forth. What we do know is that the reaction of the public when they do hear about it is going to be extremely partisan, like so much else this year. Carol, as you know, with a divided nation, it depends on where you're coming from.
This is the question: Should you blame the Bush White House for not paying enough attention to terror warnings before 9/11? That's really the crux of what they're talking about. If you're a Republican out there across America, just 28 percent say yes that the White House should have some blame. If you're an Independent, that jumps to 58 percent. And look at that, if you're a Democrat, you're looking at the world through a totally different perspective; 72 percent say they blame the president for not paying enough attention.
So, it's really a difference of where you start from and how people are going to react on Thursday.
COSTELLO: Truly amazing numbers. Let's talk about John Kerry. He's starting a new series of campaign commercials this week. Have the Bush attacks, though, taken their toll on him?
NEWPORT: We haven't seen a lot of change in Kerry's image in the eyes of the public over the last several weeks after the first hit that he took about a month or two ago. What's interesting, Carol, is both candidates -- the Bush campaign on one hand, the Kerry on the other -- are attacking each other now. And that's typical in politics. You try to lower the favorables. That's what's the pros tell us. You want to lower the favorables and increase the unfavorables of the opponent.
But right now, at this moment in time, the two men -- Bush and Kerry -- are almost identical, taking into account measurement error. Look at Bush on the left, 56-42, favorable and unfavorable. Kerry on the right, 54 to 37.
So, tomorrow Kerry has said is kind of the official beginning of his campaign. He's going to unleash some more ads. The two candidates are starting at about an equal starting point -- Carol.
COSTELLO: OK, we have to get a fun question in here now, Frank. You know, they're running the Kentucky Derby in Louisville this Saturday. Did the popularity of "Seabiscuit," the movie, increate interest in horseracing?
NEWPORT: Not that we can see at all. Now, there may be a lot of people watching the derby on Saturday from Louisville that are interested in it, because they are horseracing fans. But, boy, in terms of actual interest in betting, look at how small this is. Just 4 percent.
COSTELLO: Wow!
NEWPORT: Gallup asked this when Harry Truman was president and it was 8 percent back in 1950. It went all the way up to 14 percent for betting on the horses in 1989. But it's really come down now. A lot of that is because people who are inclined to gamble, Carol, go to casinos, and they have state lotteries now that they didn't used to.
So, we're not going to see a lot of betting on this thing on Saturday, but a lot of us may be watching just because horseracing is very fascinating, of course.
COSTELLO: It certainly is. Frank Newport live from Princeton, New Jersey.
Still to come on DAYBREAK, do you approve of the war in Iraq? We'll get to the bottom of public opinion with our special guests from the left and the right in today's "Talker" segment.
And catering to nutritional needs, one restaurant chain cooks up a new way to serve an old favorite.
And marsupial mania. Meet the newest members of one zoo family, but they're a little shy. We'll introduce you coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: The fighting in Najaf, Iraq, came after Spanish troops moved out of city. Some 200 U.S. troops provided security for the Spanish as they completed their withdrawal. About 2,500 U.S. troops are now poised outside of Najaf.
In New York, Lakhdar Brahimi, the U.N. envoy helping develop a transitional government for Iraq, gives an update this afternoon to the U.N. Security Council.
And with U.S. troops dying in deadly roadside attacks, the Pentagon is spending about $400 million to replace its thin-skinned Humvees with reinforced versions. One general says the reinforced versions, though, still are not adequate.
Time to pump up the volume now with our hot "Talker" of the morning. We'd like to tune the radio dial to see what's being said over the airwaves across the country.
This morning, the dial has landed on syndicated radio Libertarian conservative talker Neal Boortz and radio liberal talker Mike Malloy.
Welcome to you both.
MIKE MALLOY, LIBERAL RADIO HOST: Hey, good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: First off, let's take a look at some new Gallup Poll numbers on Iraq. When asked back in April of 2003, if the war in Iraq was worth it, 73 percent of Americans said yes. Today, 52 percent say yes.
And asked for how President Bush is handling Iraq, 76 percent approved back in April of 2003, 48 percent approve now.
So, Neal, how much rides on how the United States can get itself out of the Fallujah fix? NEAL BOORTZ, CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST: Oh, well, first of all, as far as these polls -- and I think I've said this on this segment before -- is that at the time of the Revolutionary War, the majority of the people living in the 13 colonies were dead set against it. And I'm glad we didn't go with polls then, and I'm glad we're not going with polls now.
The war in Iraq is necessary for any hope of stability and peace in the Middle East and to protect this country from terrorism.
As for Najaf and Fallujah are two different cities, Najaf having the great, great religious significance. But the one thing -- and I'm no military analyst, but it makes sense to me that we have to try to not show weakness. And in the Arab world, indecision or a failure to act, a very cease-fire, is a sign of weakness.
I can't help but wonder how many American lives will be lost while we're waiting on the outskirts of Fallujah to go in there and find the -- clean things up.
COSTELLO: Mike, do you agree?
MALLOY: I'm intrigued with Neal's comparison to the invasion of Iraq with the revolution in this country against the British. I'm fairly certain Neal can understand the difference between the two, even though his statement seems to indicate that he can't.
As far as U.S. military losses while we wait to invade Fallujah or Najaf, there's one way to cut those losses, and that's to pull back, to leave. This is an Iraqi problem. We have done what...
COSTELLO: Well, what do you mean by that, Mike? Do you mean leave Fallujah and Najaf, or leave Iraq altogether?
MALLOY: Well, no, I mean, leave Iraq altogether. Haven't we done what George Bush has said we were supposed to do? I realize what the original idea was, but it has evolved into we have to get rid of Saddam. All right. Saddam is in U.S. custody. Take him out of the country. Take him to The Hague. Take him to Washington. Get out of Iraq.
How many dead do we have there now, 700 plus? How many more are we going to have? We are now involved in collective punishment of the people of Fallujah, because of people who are resisting American occupation. This has changed from liberation to occupation, Carol. It has.
COSTELLO: Well, Neal, I know you're chomping at the bit to fire back, so you go right ahead.
BOORTZ: You know, yes, I'm chomping at the bit to fire back. And Mike and I are friends. We've known each other and worked together for 20 years. And the impulse is to say that the position is so absurd it doesn't deserve a response.
But if the United States were to pull out of Iraq right now, once again, it would show not only the Arab world, but the world at-large that the United States will not see it through. We might as well just go ahead and paint targets on every public building in the United States and on our backs at the same time. This is a -- even Mike's hero, John Kerry, agrees this is a battle that must be taken forward and must be won.
MALLOY: You know...
COSTELLO: Mike, and I must say, I haven't heard many politicians say to go ahead and pull our troops out of Iraq. Nobody is really thinking that.
MALLOY: Well, right. You're absolutely right. But a politician coming up with a creative or an original thought would be amazing. But...
BOORTZ: Now, we agree on something.
MALLOY: OK, but as far as what Neal said, you know, I came up, as did Neal, in the Vietnam era, and I've heard this before. If we pull out of Vietnam, it's going to go totally communist, and then Cambodia, and then this country, and then India, and then yadda, yadda, yadda.
Now, the fact is that Vietnam did go communist, and we now have an embassy in Hanoi, and we do business with them, and we have trade agreements with them. We have heard this before. This is what they mean when they talk about the Vietnamization of the situation in Iraq.
Eventually, the United States is going to pull out. Is that not the truth? Eventually, we're going to leave. Is that not the idea? So, why not pull out now?
This is an Iraqi problem. We have accomplished George Bush's goal, which was to remove Saddam Hussein. It is time to leave. It's very simple.
BOORTZ: Very simply, the reason you don't pull out now is because we have not done what we said we were going to do.
MURRAY: Yes, we have, Neal. We have removed Saddam. That's the latest in Bush's...
COSTELLO: Now...
BOORTZ: Well, that's a very narrow view of what we said we were going to accomplish.
MURRAY: Neal, that's George Bush's view.
COSTELLO: Well, Neal, tell us, in your view, what America is supposed to accomplish in Iraq?
BOORTZ: Well, our stated goal was to establish a secular popularly-elected government in Iraq, not only for the stability of that country -- the world's largest holder of oil reserves, by the way -- but also as an example to the rest of the Middle East.
This has been working, and it's been working. Take a look at what's happening in Libya. Take a look at what's happening in Syria. Look at the nervous mullahs in Iran. They are afraid that if we actually accomplish the goals we set out to accomplish in Iraq that their Islamic dictatorships might be in jeopardy. That's exactly what we want.
COSTELLO: And...
BOORTZ: That was the goal. Removing Saddam Hussein from power was only one element of our intent over there in Iraq.
COSTELLO: And with that, we're going to have to leave it. Thanks to both of you, Mike Malloy, Neal Boortz, for joining us.
MURRAY: Thank you.
BOORTZ: Our pleasure.
COSTELLO: Both will be back next Tuesday.
Your news, money, weather and sports. It is 6:47 Eastern Time. Here's what's all new this morning.
The Supreme Court will hear arguments today on White House privacy. At issue: records on who gave advice to Vice President Dick Cheney as he worked on a national energy policy?
In money news, Google may be ready to make gobs more money. The search engine giant is expected to file papers for its initial public offering as early as this week.
In sports, a minor league baseball team is auctioning off an at- bat on eBay. The winning bidder will get a chance to hit for the independent northern league team, the St. Paul Saints. Bidding ends on May 3.
In culture, opening night on Broadway for P. Diddy. The rapper is starring in a revival of "A Raisin in the Sun." P. Diddy plays Walter Younger, a role made famous by Sydney Poitier.
(WEATHER BREAK)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you.
A new concept from the colonel. Another restaurant joins the craze for healthier meals and offers up a new version of fried chicken.
Plus, high in the sky, like a movie stuntman. He's no James Bond, but he flies just like him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: It's 6:52 Eastern Time. Time for a little business buzz.
Do you love KFC chicken, but not the calories?
JOYA DOSS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: Yes.
COSTELLO: Who said yes? Soon, you can hit the drive-through guilt-free. Joya Doss, you've got to be kidding.
DOSS: Carol, I'll tell you what. If I'm walking into KFC, it's not because I want some healthy food. But I don't know about you.
But KFC, to their credit, wants to change that thinking. And after 50 years of the colonel's chicken, the company is introducing some more health-conscious menu items, including oven-roasted chicken, which is going to come in the form of boneless strips, wraps, as well as salads.
Now, there's also going to be some side menu items, including green beans and diced red pepper. And when the new menu hits on May 10, not to worry, because all of the side items will still be on there, but KFC wants to take a page from other fast-food giants, such as McDonald's and Burger King, who have also added some healthier menu items on their marquees.
But, you know, I mean, if you've been into any of those stores, you've probably seen a lot of these salads, right? There's another reason why we're seeing this change at KFC. I mean, they did try to launch -- they did launch an ad campaign, which has since been taken down, where they were touting the benefits, the low-carb benefits of fried chicken in big print, but in small print, it tells you how fried chicken is high in sodium and cholesterol and all of that other bad stuff.
So, it's also in response to that.
COSTELLO: All right, Joya Doss live from the Nasdaq Marketsite.
DOSS: OK.
COSTELLO: What about the secret recipe? Remember when KFC had the recipe? I guess it's gone by the wayside now.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey, I worked at Kentucky Fried Chicken, be careful.
COSTELLO: Let's get to our mug questions and winners from Friday.
MYERS: All right.
COSTELLO: Because we didn't get a chance to do the mug contest yesterday.
MYERS: That's right. There was severe -- the news was so bad yesterday we couldn't actually give this away. But we still have the winner from Friday, and we'll get to the questions first. What company disputes the claim that its product is not good on the South Beach Diet? That was Anheuser-Busch, Budweiser.
And, how many years has the New Orleans Jazz Festival been going? Thirty-five years for the jazz -- in fact, it was ended early on Sunday, because of all of that rain they had down there.
COSTELLO: Oh, no!
MYERS: It was seven and a half inches of rain there in Kenner.
COSTELLO: And the winner from Friday was?
MYERS: Jim Worsley of Drexel, North Carolina. Good morning, Jim, and congratulations.
COSTELLO: Look at that beautiful cup graphic.
MYERS: It's so amazing.
And now the questions for today. Who was nominated to serve as the U.S. ambassador to Iraq? You've got to get both of these, remember, now.
And the faculty at what university -- which university just approved a plan to limit the number of A's or top grades for undergrads? Only 35 percent can get A's now, which still seems way above the curve anyway.
COSTELLO: Yes. Which university instituted that new policy?
MYERS: Daybreak@CNN.com. You need them both today.
COSTELLO: Daybreak@CNN.com.
Chad will join me for "The Lightning Round" coming up, but first the latest headlines for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Oh, time for a very quick "Lightning Round." I'm exhausted. What's this, you ask, Chad?
MYERS: I didn't ask that.
COSTELLO: Well, ask.
MYERS: OK, what's this?
COSTELLO: It's art and government. This soprano is singing the words of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. The composer thought Rumsfeld's comments were ideal for artistic interpretation. For instance, when he said, there are things we know we know we don't know. Who could forget that line? And they sing it in song, and, of course, she stopped now just to make it harder for me.
Jones, Barry Jones (ph). This British army warrant officer wants to fly his autogyro around the world. There is it.
MYERS: Oh.
COSTELLO: Doesn't it look like it's hanging from string, kind of?
MYERS: Kind of.
COSTELLO: Anyway, it's an aircraft made famous by James Bond in the 1967 film, "You Only Live Twice," and he's doing it for real.
"AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now. You make it a great day.
MYERS: See you Wednesday.
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Aired April 27, 2004 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Although the White House argues executive privilege, critics say it's a case of something to hide. The Supreme Court must decide if it takes up a nearly three-year-old concerning vice presidential records.
CNN's John King lays it all out for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the campaign trail, a very public role leading the attack against Democrat John Kerry.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is irresponsible to vote against vital the support for the United States military.
KING: But this is a vice president whose most important work is done in private, in the Oval Office here, and who is the leader of an aggressive effort to defend a president's right to conduct some business in secret.
ALBERTO GONZALES, WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: Well, you know, we don't operate in government on a baseline that everything is open to the public.
KING: At issue now, a Supreme Court case about whether some records of the vice president's energy task force should be made public. A lower court said yes, and the White House appealed.
Democrats in Congress and other critics call it proof of a White House obsessed with secrecy on issues ranging from the energy task force to blocking access to information about terror suspects detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
CHERYL MILLS, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY COUNSEL: This administration is much more conservative on the issue of privilege and much more, I'd say, aggressive about asserting it or asserting those things that are similar to it.
KING: Not so, says the president's top lawyer.
GONZALES: In most cases, we are able to reach an accommodation, and that's why in the history of this administration only once has this president asserted executive privilege. KING: Just recently, these compromises: the 9/11 Commission finally won access to a presidential intelligence briefing Mr. Bush received five weeks before the terrorist attacks. And National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice testified before the commission after months in which the White House said no.
NORMAN ORNSTEIN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: Every president, liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican, oftentimes, faced with immediate political pressures, has kind of caved or given in on executive responsibilities.
KING: That the White House did not give in this time and appealed the energy task force case to the Supreme Court reflects Mr. Cheney's unrivaled clout within the White House.
(on camera): And it reflects the vice president's view that presidential power has been under attack for 30 years, beginning with Watergate and including a decision by the first president he worked for, Gerald Ford, to testify to Congress about his decision to pardon Richard Nixon.
John King, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: The vice president isn't the only member of the Bush administration whose name will come up in Supreme Court cases this week.
Time for some "Coffey Talk" right now. On the phone from Miami, our legal analyst, Kendall Coffey.
Good morning -- Kendall.
KENDALL COFFEY, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: The other name, Donald Rumsfeld. Run us down these cases.
COFFEY: Well, the one that's going to be argued today is the one that was just described by John King, and that deals with the issue of whether or not the White House energy task force's records, which includes closed-doors meetings, is going to be subject to public scrutiny. Administration lawyers say the court-ordered disclosure would undermine the president's ability to get candid advice.
Challengers say that the public has a right to know, especially because one of the alleged members giving energy advice was none other than former Enron CEO Kenneth Lay.
The other big case is going to be heard tomorrow, Carol, and that involves, of course, the enemy combatant issue.
COSTELLO: Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, he's an enemy combatant. No charges were ever filed against him, correct? COFFEY: Two big cases tomorrow. One is Yaser Hamdi, who was captured on the battlefields of Afghanistan. A U.S. citizen being held incommunicado for months, no access to lawyers or anyone else.
The other case in some ways is even more controversial, because Jose Padilla (ph), also designated a U.S. -- also a U.S. citizen designated an enemy combatant -- was actually captured not on a foreign battlefield, but was arrested at Chicago's O'Hare Airport.
COSTELLO: And do you think that the justices will take into account the cases of John Walker Lindh and Zacarias Moussaoui, although they're slightly different?
COFFEY: The cases are different, but they're looking at the same general landscape; that is the tradeoff between national security and individual liberty. And especially with the cases of two U.S. citizens who are being held by U.S. authorities on U.S. territories without even getting criminal charges or an opportunity to defend themselves, essentially incommunicado, I think it's going to be the toughest test ever of the administration's aggressive use of new legal strategies in dealing with the unprecedented challenges of the war on terrorism.
COSTELLO: So, does that mean you're predicting the administration will lose?
COFFEY: I think they're going to lose one of the two cases tomorrow, possibly both. I think that to basically say that a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil loses the Bill of Rights is going to be a very, very tough one.
And, Carol, even the Guantanamo Bay case, where I thought the administration was on very strong ground legally last week, got a lot of tough questioning from some of the justices. So, as they get into these (UNINTELLIGIBLE) cases, it's not clear that the administration is going to win all of them, by any means.
COSTELLO: We'll be following those cases. Kendall Coffey, live on the phone from Miami this morning.
We have some new numbers for you this morning. America is speaking out about the investigation into September 11.
Let's head live to Princeton, New Jersey, and Gallup Poll editor- in-chief Frank Newport.
Frank, up first this morning.
FRANK NEWPORT, GALLUP POLL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Well, up first this morning, we're looking ahead this week, and we are going to see -- well, we're actually going to see, because it's a private session. We're going to hear about Bush, the president, and Cheney, the vice president, in that famous testimony they're going to be giving on Thursday; famous, because of all of the questions about why they're doing it together and so on and so forth. What we do know is that the reaction of the public when they do hear about it is going to be extremely partisan, like so much else this year. Carol, as you know, with a divided nation, it depends on where you're coming from.
This is the question: Should you blame the Bush White House for not paying enough attention to terror warnings before 9/11? That's really the crux of what they're talking about. If you're a Republican out there across America, just 28 percent say yes that the White House should have some blame. If you're an Independent, that jumps to 58 percent. And look at that, if you're a Democrat, you're looking at the world through a totally different perspective; 72 percent say they blame the president for not paying enough attention.
So, it's really a difference of where you start from and how people are going to react on Thursday.
COSTELLO: Truly amazing numbers. Let's talk about John Kerry. He's starting a new series of campaign commercials this week. Have the Bush attacks, though, taken their toll on him?
NEWPORT: We haven't seen a lot of change in Kerry's image in the eyes of the public over the last several weeks after the first hit that he took about a month or two ago. What's interesting, Carol, is both candidates -- the Bush campaign on one hand, the Kerry on the other -- are attacking each other now. And that's typical in politics. You try to lower the favorables. That's what's the pros tell us. You want to lower the favorables and increase the unfavorables of the opponent.
But right now, at this moment in time, the two men -- Bush and Kerry -- are almost identical, taking into account measurement error. Look at Bush on the left, 56-42, favorable and unfavorable. Kerry on the right, 54 to 37.
So, tomorrow Kerry has said is kind of the official beginning of his campaign. He's going to unleash some more ads. The two candidates are starting at about an equal starting point -- Carol.
COSTELLO: OK, we have to get a fun question in here now, Frank. You know, they're running the Kentucky Derby in Louisville this Saturday. Did the popularity of "Seabiscuit," the movie, increate interest in horseracing?
NEWPORT: Not that we can see at all. Now, there may be a lot of people watching the derby on Saturday from Louisville that are interested in it, because they are horseracing fans. But, boy, in terms of actual interest in betting, look at how small this is. Just 4 percent.
COSTELLO: Wow!
NEWPORT: Gallup asked this when Harry Truman was president and it was 8 percent back in 1950. It went all the way up to 14 percent for betting on the horses in 1989. But it's really come down now. A lot of that is because people who are inclined to gamble, Carol, go to casinos, and they have state lotteries now that they didn't used to.
So, we're not going to see a lot of betting on this thing on Saturday, but a lot of us may be watching just because horseracing is very fascinating, of course.
COSTELLO: It certainly is. Frank Newport live from Princeton, New Jersey.
Still to come on DAYBREAK, do you approve of the war in Iraq? We'll get to the bottom of public opinion with our special guests from the left and the right in today's "Talker" segment.
And catering to nutritional needs, one restaurant chain cooks up a new way to serve an old favorite.
And marsupial mania. Meet the newest members of one zoo family, but they're a little shy. We'll introduce you coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: The fighting in Najaf, Iraq, came after Spanish troops moved out of city. Some 200 U.S. troops provided security for the Spanish as they completed their withdrawal. About 2,500 U.S. troops are now poised outside of Najaf.
In New York, Lakhdar Brahimi, the U.N. envoy helping develop a transitional government for Iraq, gives an update this afternoon to the U.N. Security Council.
And with U.S. troops dying in deadly roadside attacks, the Pentagon is spending about $400 million to replace its thin-skinned Humvees with reinforced versions. One general says the reinforced versions, though, still are not adequate.
Time to pump up the volume now with our hot "Talker" of the morning. We'd like to tune the radio dial to see what's being said over the airwaves across the country.
This morning, the dial has landed on syndicated radio Libertarian conservative talker Neal Boortz and radio liberal talker Mike Malloy.
Welcome to you both.
MIKE MALLOY, LIBERAL RADIO HOST: Hey, good morning, Carol.
COSTELLO: First off, let's take a look at some new Gallup Poll numbers on Iraq. When asked back in April of 2003, if the war in Iraq was worth it, 73 percent of Americans said yes. Today, 52 percent say yes.
And asked for how President Bush is handling Iraq, 76 percent approved back in April of 2003, 48 percent approve now.
So, Neal, how much rides on how the United States can get itself out of the Fallujah fix? NEAL BOORTZ, CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST: Oh, well, first of all, as far as these polls -- and I think I've said this on this segment before -- is that at the time of the Revolutionary War, the majority of the people living in the 13 colonies were dead set against it. And I'm glad we didn't go with polls then, and I'm glad we're not going with polls now.
The war in Iraq is necessary for any hope of stability and peace in the Middle East and to protect this country from terrorism.
As for Najaf and Fallujah are two different cities, Najaf having the great, great religious significance. But the one thing -- and I'm no military analyst, but it makes sense to me that we have to try to not show weakness. And in the Arab world, indecision or a failure to act, a very cease-fire, is a sign of weakness.
I can't help but wonder how many American lives will be lost while we're waiting on the outskirts of Fallujah to go in there and find the -- clean things up.
COSTELLO: Mike, do you agree?
MALLOY: I'm intrigued with Neal's comparison to the invasion of Iraq with the revolution in this country against the British. I'm fairly certain Neal can understand the difference between the two, even though his statement seems to indicate that he can't.
As far as U.S. military losses while we wait to invade Fallujah or Najaf, there's one way to cut those losses, and that's to pull back, to leave. This is an Iraqi problem. We have done what...
COSTELLO: Well, what do you mean by that, Mike? Do you mean leave Fallujah and Najaf, or leave Iraq altogether?
MALLOY: Well, no, I mean, leave Iraq altogether. Haven't we done what George Bush has said we were supposed to do? I realize what the original idea was, but it has evolved into we have to get rid of Saddam. All right. Saddam is in U.S. custody. Take him out of the country. Take him to The Hague. Take him to Washington. Get out of Iraq.
How many dead do we have there now, 700 plus? How many more are we going to have? We are now involved in collective punishment of the people of Fallujah, because of people who are resisting American occupation. This has changed from liberation to occupation, Carol. It has.
COSTELLO: Well, Neal, I know you're chomping at the bit to fire back, so you go right ahead.
BOORTZ: You know, yes, I'm chomping at the bit to fire back. And Mike and I are friends. We've known each other and worked together for 20 years. And the impulse is to say that the position is so absurd it doesn't deserve a response.
But if the United States were to pull out of Iraq right now, once again, it would show not only the Arab world, but the world at-large that the United States will not see it through. We might as well just go ahead and paint targets on every public building in the United States and on our backs at the same time. This is a -- even Mike's hero, John Kerry, agrees this is a battle that must be taken forward and must be won.
MALLOY: You know...
COSTELLO: Mike, and I must say, I haven't heard many politicians say to go ahead and pull our troops out of Iraq. Nobody is really thinking that.
MALLOY: Well, right. You're absolutely right. But a politician coming up with a creative or an original thought would be amazing. But...
BOORTZ: Now, we agree on something.
MALLOY: OK, but as far as what Neal said, you know, I came up, as did Neal, in the Vietnam era, and I've heard this before. If we pull out of Vietnam, it's going to go totally communist, and then Cambodia, and then this country, and then India, and then yadda, yadda, yadda.
Now, the fact is that Vietnam did go communist, and we now have an embassy in Hanoi, and we do business with them, and we have trade agreements with them. We have heard this before. This is what they mean when they talk about the Vietnamization of the situation in Iraq.
Eventually, the United States is going to pull out. Is that not the truth? Eventually, we're going to leave. Is that not the idea? So, why not pull out now?
This is an Iraqi problem. We have accomplished George Bush's goal, which was to remove Saddam Hussein. It is time to leave. It's very simple.
BOORTZ: Very simply, the reason you don't pull out now is because we have not done what we said we were going to do.
MURRAY: Yes, we have, Neal. We have removed Saddam. That's the latest in Bush's...
COSTELLO: Now...
BOORTZ: Well, that's a very narrow view of what we said we were going to accomplish.
MURRAY: Neal, that's George Bush's view.
COSTELLO: Well, Neal, tell us, in your view, what America is supposed to accomplish in Iraq?
BOORTZ: Well, our stated goal was to establish a secular popularly-elected government in Iraq, not only for the stability of that country -- the world's largest holder of oil reserves, by the way -- but also as an example to the rest of the Middle East.
This has been working, and it's been working. Take a look at what's happening in Libya. Take a look at what's happening in Syria. Look at the nervous mullahs in Iran. They are afraid that if we actually accomplish the goals we set out to accomplish in Iraq that their Islamic dictatorships might be in jeopardy. That's exactly what we want.
COSTELLO: And...
BOORTZ: That was the goal. Removing Saddam Hussein from power was only one element of our intent over there in Iraq.
COSTELLO: And with that, we're going to have to leave it. Thanks to both of you, Mike Malloy, Neal Boortz, for joining us.
MURRAY: Thank you.
BOORTZ: Our pleasure.
COSTELLO: Both will be back next Tuesday.
Your news, money, weather and sports. It is 6:47 Eastern Time. Here's what's all new this morning.
The Supreme Court will hear arguments today on White House privacy. At issue: records on who gave advice to Vice President Dick Cheney as he worked on a national energy policy?
In money news, Google may be ready to make gobs more money. The search engine giant is expected to file papers for its initial public offering as early as this week.
In sports, a minor league baseball team is auctioning off an at- bat on eBay. The winning bidder will get a chance to hit for the independent northern league team, the St. Paul Saints. Bidding ends on May 3.
In culture, opening night on Broadway for P. Diddy. The rapper is starring in a revival of "A Raisin in the Sun." P. Diddy plays Walter Younger, a role made famous by Sydney Poitier.
(WEATHER BREAK)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you.
A new concept from the colonel. Another restaurant joins the craze for healthier meals and offers up a new version of fried chicken.
Plus, high in the sky, like a movie stuntman. He's no James Bond, but he flies just like him.
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COSTELLO: It's 6:52 Eastern Time. Time for a little business buzz.
Do you love KFC chicken, but not the calories?
JOYA DOSS, CNN FINANCIAL NEWS: Yes.
COSTELLO: Who said yes? Soon, you can hit the drive-through guilt-free. Joya Doss, you've got to be kidding.
DOSS: Carol, I'll tell you what. If I'm walking into KFC, it's not because I want some healthy food. But I don't know about you.
But KFC, to their credit, wants to change that thinking. And after 50 years of the colonel's chicken, the company is introducing some more health-conscious menu items, including oven-roasted chicken, which is going to come in the form of boneless strips, wraps, as well as salads.
Now, there's also going to be some side menu items, including green beans and diced red pepper. And when the new menu hits on May 10, not to worry, because all of the side items will still be on there, but KFC wants to take a page from other fast-food giants, such as McDonald's and Burger King, who have also added some healthier menu items on their marquees.
But, you know, I mean, if you've been into any of those stores, you've probably seen a lot of these salads, right? There's another reason why we're seeing this change at KFC. I mean, they did try to launch -- they did launch an ad campaign, which has since been taken down, where they were touting the benefits, the low-carb benefits of fried chicken in big print, but in small print, it tells you how fried chicken is high in sodium and cholesterol and all of that other bad stuff.
So, it's also in response to that.
COSTELLO: All right, Joya Doss live from the Nasdaq Marketsite.
DOSS: OK.
COSTELLO: What about the secret recipe? Remember when KFC had the recipe? I guess it's gone by the wayside now.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hey, I worked at Kentucky Fried Chicken, be careful.
COSTELLO: Let's get to our mug questions and winners from Friday.
MYERS: All right.
COSTELLO: Because we didn't get a chance to do the mug contest yesterday.
MYERS: That's right. There was severe -- the news was so bad yesterday we couldn't actually give this away. But we still have the winner from Friday, and we'll get to the questions first. What company disputes the claim that its product is not good on the South Beach Diet? That was Anheuser-Busch, Budweiser.
And, how many years has the New Orleans Jazz Festival been going? Thirty-five years for the jazz -- in fact, it was ended early on Sunday, because of all of that rain they had down there.
COSTELLO: Oh, no!
MYERS: It was seven and a half inches of rain there in Kenner.
COSTELLO: And the winner from Friday was?
MYERS: Jim Worsley of Drexel, North Carolina. Good morning, Jim, and congratulations.
COSTELLO: Look at that beautiful cup graphic.
MYERS: It's so amazing.
And now the questions for today. Who was nominated to serve as the U.S. ambassador to Iraq? You've got to get both of these, remember, now.
And the faculty at what university -- which university just approved a plan to limit the number of A's or top grades for undergrads? Only 35 percent can get A's now, which still seems way above the curve anyway.
COSTELLO: Yes. Which university instituted that new policy?
MYERS: Daybreak@CNN.com. You need them both today.
COSTELLO: Daybreak@CNN.com.
Chad will join me for "The Lightning Round" coming up, but first the latest headlines for you.
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COSTELLO: Oh, time for a very quick "Lightning Round." I'm exhausted. What's this, you ask, Chad?
MYERS: I didn't ask that.
COSTELLO: Well, ask.
MYERS: OK, what's this?
COSTELLO: It's art and government. This soprano is singing the words of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. The composer thought Rumsfeld's comments were ideal for artistic interpretation. For instance, when he said, there are things we know we know we don't know. Who could forget that line? And they sing it in song, and, of course, she stopped now just to make it harder for me.
Jones, Barry Jones (ph). This British army warrant officer wants to fly his autogyro around the world. There is it.
MYERS: Oh.
COSTELLO: Doesn't it look like it's hanging from string, kind of?
MYERS: Kind of.
COSTELLO: Anyway, it's an aircraft made famous by James Bond in the 1967 film, "You Only Live Twice," and he's doing it for real.
"AMERICAN MORNING" starts right now. You make it a great day.
MYERS: See you Wednesday.
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