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Lou Dobbs Tonight
U.S. Marines Prepare For Fallujah Offensive; Interview With Henry Kissinger
Aired April 28, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, airstrikes on Fallujah. U.S. Marines prepare to go on the offensive against insurgents.
CAPT. DOUGLAS ZEMBIEC, U.S. MARINES: We've been playing patty- cake with these insurgents.
DOBBS: Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger says the United States must stand firm in Iraq. I'll talk with Henry Kissinger about Iraq, the Arab-Israeli conflict and the global war on terror.
Some Democrats say Senator John Kerry can't defeat President Bush in November. Is the senator's campaign in disarray? Senior political analyst Bill Schneider with the story.
Millions of Americans are living on the minimum wage. It hasn't changed in six years. In our "Face-Off" tonight, opposing views on whether the federal government should raise the minimum wage.
A dramatic increase in the number of illegal aliens crossing the border with Mexico, after the president unveiled its plans for a guest worker program.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The administration has, in fact, stopped talking about the president's amnesty proposal.
DOBBS: Tonight, our special report, "Broken Borders."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Wednesday, April 28. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
Tonight, heavy fighting between U.S. Marines and insurgents in the Iraqi city of Fallujah. For a second night, the Marines called in an AC-130 gunship to bombard insurgent positions. And earlier, U.S. fighter aircraft dropped laser-guided bombs on insurgent strongholds.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS (voice-over): U.S. Marine Cobra and Huey helicopters firing on Fallujah early in the day. KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You were just hearing the echo of fresh gunfire across Fallujah.
DOBBS: U.S. gunships then pounded more targets after nightfall.
PENHAUL: We're pointing the camera east of our position. And approximately two or three miles there out towards the horizon, we can still see the afterglow of orange flame and black plumes of smoke are rising up into Fallujah's night sky. That's the aftermath of an airstrike by an AC-130 Spectre gunship.
DOBBS: U.S. officials today said, once again, their patience for negotiation is limited.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. DEPUTY CHIEF OF OPERATIONS: I think it is a credit to the people that we have at that table that they're still willing to sit down, still willing to listen, and still willing to entertain the notion of a peaceful settlement inside Fallujah, when everything that's coming out from Fallujah is trying to tell us just the opposite.
DOBBS: U.S. Marines dismiss speculation that this was an assault against the Sunni stronghold.
ZEMBIEC: We've been playing patty-cake with these insurgents. We have not begun to do offensive operations. And the world will see that when we do.
DOBBS: President Bush says the resistance will increase as the June 30 approaches.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What you must realize is happening in a place like Fallujah is the closer we come to passing sovereignty, the more likely it is that foreign fighters disgruntled Baathists, or friends of the Shia cleric will try to stop progress. That's what is happening. They want to kill innocent life to try to get us to quit. And we're not going to. And our military commanders will take whatever action is necessary to secure Fallujah on behalf of the Iraqi people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: U.S. troops remained poised to strike against insurgents in southern Iraqi city of Najaf. About 2,500 soldiers of the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment have massed around Najaf. Those troops have set up a check point on a bridge they seized from insurgent gunmen and those loyal to the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The coalition has not repeated its threat, however, to capture or kill al- Sadr. And for now, U.S. military commanders appear continuously ready to negotiate.
The military is sending more tanks and armored personnel carriers to the troops surrounding and Najaf. This move reflects concerns that soldiers and Marines on the front lines are facing a much tougher fight than their commanders had expected originally.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report -- Jamie McIntyre.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, when the U.S. Marines were dispatched to Iraq, Lou, they left a lot of their tanks and heavy armor behind. They didn't think they would need them.
But with those same Marines now engaged in full-fledged combat in Fallujah, the Pentagon is rushing 28 tanks to the front lines, M1-A1 Abrams some for Marines, others for the 1st Cavalry Division near Baghdad. The quick-fix deployments are an acknowledgment of the obvious, that things aren't going well in parts of Iraq, despite the upbeat pronouncements from the administration.
In fact, officials who have contact with General John Abizaid, the top U.S. commander for Iraq, report that he's worried that anti- American violence will spread and he's particularly concerned that more moderate Iraqis aren't stepping forward to condemn the insurgents. Sources say part of the reason for a delay in the planned Fallujah offensive is that Abizaid believes a military solution cannot be imposed without more political support from the average Iraqis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, CMDR., U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: There is no solution to this prop other than an Iraqi solution. All of us have known it from the beginning. We do everything that we can to empower Iraqi institutions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: So far the insurgents have succeeded, to some degree, in intimidating the Iraqi population by murder and threats. There was a wanted poster circulating around Fallujah offering $15 million for anyone who would kill Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld or Generals Sanchez and Kimmitt. Still, the Pentagon insists that a silent support the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It takes courage in a violent environment for a person to stand up and say, I'm for law and order. I'm for freedom. I'm for a representative system. And there are a lot of them doing that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Lou, tonight, sources tell CNN that General Abizaid will ask for more troops for Iraq if the security situation continues to deteriorate over the next month or so. And the Pentagon has already made plans to accommodate that request if and when it comes -- Lou.
DOBBS: And do we know where those troops will be coming from, Jamie?
MCINTYRE: We don't know. The Pentagon has identified the source of troops not only to maintain the 135,000 there now, but to increase that level, if that's what General Abizaid asks for.
DOBBS: In your report, Jamie, a remarkable contrast, General Abizaid, the man on the ground in Iraq with full responsibility for Iraq, talking about his disappointment with the support that the U.S. forces are receiving from moderates in Iraq, and the secretary of defense on U.S. shores talking about the strength of that support.
MCINTYRE: Well, I think what it reflects is General Abizaid is absolutely convinced he has the combat power he needs to prevail, whether it is in Fallujah or to take on the forces of Muqtada al-Sadr and defeat them.
But he's worried about the public opinion and the perception that Iraqis need to believe that they're fighting for Iraqis. And what he's disappointed in, according to people that he's confided in, is that more Iraqi leaders haven't stepped forward. The Iraqis, he believes, need to be led by Iraqis if they're going to confront this problem with the insurgency. And that's what he's concerned about as the U.S. gets closer to this June 30 turnover of sovereignty.
DOBBS: Thank you, Jamie -- Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
The government's wartime powers and citizen rights the central issue in a landmark case now before the Supreme Court. The justices today considered the president's authority to hold American citizens in a military jail without charges or without access to an attorney. This case concerns two American citizens the government has designated enemy combatants in the war on terror.
Bob Franken reports from the U.S. Supreme Court in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two individuals, Jose Padilla, U.S. born and raised, arrested in Chicago O'Hare Airport accused of participating in a dirty bomb plot. And Yaser Hamdi, also a U.S. citizen, but raised in Saudi, he was captured on the Afghan battlefield. Both declared enemy combatants by the Pentagon, never charged and held indefinitely. Two cases, the lawyers argue, but one overriding issue.
JENNIFER MARTINEZ, ATTORNEY FOR PADILLA: Never before in the nation's history has this court granted the president a blank check to do whatever he wants to American citizens.
FRANKEN: The administration maintaining that in this time of war the president must have extraordinary power.
PAUL CLEMENT, U.S. ATTORNEY: But it has been well established and long established that the government has the authority to hold both unlawful enemy combatants and lawful prisoners of war captured on the battlefield in order to prevent them from returning to the battle.
FRANKEN: That would include U.S. citizens, said Clement, particularly when officials decide they need to be interrogated. Not only does the president have the power as commander in chief, he argued. Congress, right after September 11, authorized it. The justices vigorously questioned both sides.
JUSTICE SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR: It does say in this authorization the president is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks.
FRANK DUNHAM JR., ATTORNEY FOR HAMDI: We could have people locked up all over the country tomorrow without any due process, without any opportunity to be heard.
JUSTICE RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Is it just up to the good will of the executive? Is there any judicial check?
CLEMENT: Where the government is on a war footing, that you have to trust the executive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: It's a question both sides agree of balance, and the justices, Lou, are going to have to decide which way in a matter of war is the balance going to tip, individual rights or national defense -- Lou.
DOBBS: Obviously, a critical, critical issue.
Bob Franken, thank you very much, reporting from the Supreme Court.
A judge in Spain indicted a Moroccan man on charges he helped plan the September 11 attacks. Spanish police are hunting the man in connection with the Madrid train bombings in March. Those attacks killed almost 200 people. The judge said the Moroccan helped organize a meeting in Spain in July of 2001. That was to finalize details of the September 11 attacks.
Still ahead, some Democrats say Senator John Kerry may be losing the battle to President Bush. The election is still six months away. Senior political analyst Bill Schneider joins me.
The Bush administration says overseas outsourcing is good for America unless the product is prescription drugs. We'll have a special report.
And in our "Face-Off" tonight, two opposite views on whether the federal government should raise the minimum wage, which hasn't changed in more than six years -- all of that and more still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Leading Democrats on Capitol Hill today said they believe the Bush administration has no strategy for the resolution in the war on Iraq. The Democrats made those comments after National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice delivered a briefing on Iraq. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: I heard nothing in Dr. Rice's presentation whether in her opening statement or in answers to questions that give us any greater sense of security about where we're headed on Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Meanwhile, many Democrats are also growing frustrated with one key member of their own party, Senator John Kerry. He's under increasing pressure in some quarters to find a defining strategy for his campaign.
Joining me, our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.
Bill, what are you hearing about this obviously unrest?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Consternation is what I'm hearing from Democrats. They expected John Kerry to be doing a lot better in the polls.
Polls have come out in the last week. They show him still behind President Bush. After a month of trouble, rising gas prices, casualties in Iraq, lots of setbacks, the 9/11 Commission, they thought Kerry would be doing better. Some are saying it was a mistake for him to get into a fight with President Bush over national security credentials. That was a fight he can't possibly win.
You're hearing criticisms of the polls. Democrats are saying, forget the national polls. Look at the battleground states, where Kerry is just barely holding even with President Bush. And you are even hearing some unreconstructed Howard Dean types out there who say, we ought to push John Kerry off the ticket, just get him out of there, replace him with a tough guy like Howard Dean.
DOBBS: Like Howard Dean.
Bill, what must Kerry do to bring these Democrats back into the fold and to turn it all around?
SCHNEIDER: He needs a defining theme.
In ever election where a challenger has won, he's done it by finding a theme that Americans want that they're not getting to the incumbent. When Carter won after Watergate, the defining theme was morality. When Reagan won after Carter, his defining theme was leadership because Carter was wishy-washy and ineffectual.
Clinton won after the first George Bush. His defining theme was empathy. He felt your pain. And Bush won on character. What do Americans want right now that they're not getting from President Bush? In a word, they want unity. They want someone who can unify the country, because he can argue, if Kerry adopts this strategy, President Bush promised to bring the country together and he hasn't done that. I'll give you my favorite poll. The "Washington Post"/ABC News asked a question last week that said, do you think President Bush has united the country or has he divided the country? And you know what the answer was? Fifty/fifty.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Amazing. Bill Schneider, thank you very much.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
DOBBS: Today, a surprising statement from the White House on the debate over prescription drug prices in this country. A Bush administration official told a congressional committee that importing cheaper drugs into this country would cause many Americans to lose their jobs.
That, as we reported extensively, is precisely what is happening in many other industries, without objection from the White House.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: When it comes to televisions or computers made in Asia or services outsourced to India, the Bush administration says free trade is just great. It brings down prices for American consumers. But if the product is prescription drugs backed by the powerful drug lobby, suddenly the administration is worried about outsourcing. It is now arguing that importing cheaper drugs into the United States is a bad thing because it could cost U.S. jobs.
A commerce official telling a Senate hearing, quote -- "There will be a disinvestment in the United States, a loss of employment opportunities and frankly a loss an industry that is a huge multiplier." Critics call the administration's logic inconsistent and worse.
REP. RAHM EMANUEL (D), ILLINOIS: It is blackmail and intimidation that somehow if we paid lower prices here in the United States, jobs would flee. We have an unbelievably educated work force. Second of all, the NIH, which is a $28 billion taxpayer funded research arm that -- there's not a cancer drug on the market that wasn't funded through the NIH.
VILES: The drug industry employs just 293,000 Americans, but its influence in Washington is legendary.
ROBERT HAYES, MEDICARE RIGHTS CENTER: I've heard Republican congressmen, conservative Republican congressmen, suggest that the White House is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the pharmaceutical industry. That's hyperbole, I'm sure. But that being said, there's probably no single industry in this country that has a firmer grip on the politics of our nation than the pharmaceutical industry.
VILES: The administration argues that rather than driving down drug prices in the United States, a better policy is to drive up prices in Canada and Europe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: A key point here. High drug prices in the United States helped foreign drug companies, too, because, right now, foreign drug companies control roughly 40 percent of the U.S. market -- Lou.
DOBBS: But doesn't everybody quite get it? The job here isn't to help the drug companies, whether they're foreign-owned or domestic. It is to help those who are buying the prescription drugs.
VILES: The thrust of the testimony by the Commerce official, Grant Aldonas, before the Senate committee is, what can we do to help the pharmaceutical industry in the United States?
DOBBS: I am so delighted, though, I must tell you, I'm excited even that the administration finally has recognized the impact of imports on jobs.
VILES: They have found some jobs they'd like to protect.
DOBBS: This is perhaps -- both the Democrats and Republicans are now turning simultaneously to some concern about working men and women in this country that will be, let's hope, well, earth-shattering.
VILES: Sure.
DOBBS: Thank you, Peter Viles.
Still ahead here, the many foreign policy challenges for this country in Iraq, in the Middle East, and throughout the rest of the world. Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger joins us next.
And shocking new information about the number of illegal aliens now crossing our "Broken Borders." We'll have a special report for you.
All of that, more stories, much more debate, and, yes, opinion coming right up.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The air attacks on Fallujah come roughly two months before the planned transfer of power in Iraq. My guest tonight says the United States must stand firm in Iraq to prevent it from becoming what he calls a black hole for terrorism.
Henry Kissinger joins me now.
Good to have you with us.
HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.
DOBBS: Fallujah. Now two weeks of negotiation, this after the U.S. said that it would go after al-Sadr, kill, or capture him. These negotiations, apparently leading nowhere. If this is a cease-fire, it is a unique cease-fire given the violence. What must be done, in your judgment, in Fallujah.
KISSINGER: Sadr is in a different town.
DOBBS: Najaf.
KISSINGER: In Najaf, which is a similar, slightly different problem.
Fallujah, there's nothing to negotiate about, other than the surrender of their arms and of the people who killed the four Americans, which, in my view, they will not do. And Fallujah has sort of become the test case of American politics. We want to turn over power. And we should. But it will be meaningless if it looks as if the insurgents in Fallujah, a combination of Baathists, al Qaeda, and foreign insurrectionists, if they can extract concessions from America, if they can present to the rest of the Arab world as having been achieved by facing down American power, that is the absolutely key issue.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: A key issue. But this administration, every administration before it, has said they would never negotiate with terrorists, yet that is precisely the spectacle that we are witnessing, is it not, in Fallujah.
KISSINGER: We have made demands which, on the face of it, look like asking the terrorists to surrender by giving up their arms.
And the reasoning behind it is that they are supposed to be moderate elements in Fallujah, and they probably are, who would be more likely to be on our side if we show moderation. I believe that whatever moderate elements exist in Fallujah are so terrified of this combination of forces that is they cannot make their preferences -- to carry them through, if, indeed, they have such preferences.
DOBBS: In Najaf, Muqtada al-Sadr holed up with his militia, again an estimated 2,500 U.S. troops, Army, surrounding the city, negotiations under way there as well. This is the same man that the U.S. forces said they were going to kill or capture. What is the prospect for this resolution?
KISSINGER: We have perhaps an even more complicated situation because it is the oldest city of the Shiite religion, in many ways.
And also this is a conflict not just between Sadr and us, but between Sadr and Sistani, the more moderate ayatollah who, however, does dare to avow his convictions and he's making fairly moderate statements. So, the paradox is, if Sadr were to prevail and face us down in the same problem a in Fallujah, it would drive Sistani into a morning intransigent direction.
DOBBS: The appearance is, as we are rushing heavy armor to Fallujah and Najaf, as we continue discussion and negotiation, where once there was the delicate statement, kill or capture al-Sadr, the demands for justice after the mutilation and the murder of four Americans, this is beginning to look like, A, there's been unquestioned -- unquestionable lack of manpower, U.S. manpower or strength to carry out the will of the U.S. government.
Secondly, with General Abizaid saying clearly that he's disappointed in the level of support from the moderate faction, whatever size that moderate faction is within Iraq, this is a period in which it looks as though the United States is on the verge of determining whether it will meet failure or success.
KISSINGER: It is a turning point.
And we will not be able to gauge the degree of support and extent of moderate forces there until we have disarmed the militias in these two towns, because if militants can take over towns and then extract concessions from us or even acquiescence from us, this is a pattern that is likely to spread maybe across Iraq, maybe even in to Baghdad.
And then the political process, which the administration is pushing, will not be able to succeed.
DOBBS: Is there, at this point, a role for the other Arab states in the region to be supportive of U.S. policy? Is there any likelihood of it? Would it be to any avail?
KISSINGER: Ultimately, one would hope that both the Europeans and the modern Arabs that are under direct attack themselves, because they're much more immediately threatened than even we are, would support it.
But it is a vicious circle. If they believe that we are in -- that we are not able to maintain our position there, then they will be a reluctant as the moderate Iraqis to support us. I believe the administration is doing the right thing. And I believe the administration must prevail, but the American public has to understand that this is a turning point that you cannot have slogans of negotiation, rather than swords. We first have to prevail and then we can do the political process leading to a representative government.
DOBBS: The political process proceeding after demonstrating strength. As Henry Kissinger says, if I may summarize your statement, the Bush administration and the United States must remain firm in Iraq.
Henry Kissinger, as always, it's good to have you with us.
KISSINGER: Great pleasure to be here. Thank you.
DOBBS: North Korea is making use of international aid tonight as it is recovering from last week's disastrous train explosion. That explosion killed nearly 200 people and injured hundreds more, at least, leaving a scene of devastation that one Western aid worker called simply apocalyptic. Millions in dollars from several Western nations is either in North Korea or rushing on its way to North Korea. But, tonight, the North Koreans have issued an unusual request: Please send television sets. The Pyongyang government has turned down South Korea's offer to send first aid and medical workers, but officials are asking, North Korean officials are asking for school supplies and 50 color televisions sets, the bizarre request criticized by a major South Korean newspaper today, which wrote in an editorial, "The North must think first about the magnitude and the severity of this disaster."
A South Korean ship, by the way, loaded with food and medicine, is headed for North Korea. The Seoul government alone is planning to send nearly $22 million of aid to North Korea to help recover from its efforts to recover from the disaster.
Tonight, in "Broken Borders," we've been reporting here, for months, on the problem of illegal immigration. Now, the number of illegal aliens crossing the Mexican border has risen dramatically. Casey Wian report from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is a scene played in night after night in small towns like Nogales, Arizona and big cities like San Diego, California: illegal aliens chased, caught, and deported by U.S. immigration authorities. The border patrol says arrests of illegal aliens along the U.S. southern border jumped 25 percent in the past six months compared to the same period a year ago. In some places, like the Arizona desert, apprehensions are up more than 50 percent.
ROBERT BONNER, COMM. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION: Border patrol is more mobile, more effective using its technology in apprehending in a greater number of illegal aliens coming into the U.S. And also, we are seeing, I believe, an increase in the flow of illegal aliens.
WIAN: Whether the numbers are a result of more manpower and better resources along the border, or an inflection of number of illegals trying to cross is debatable. Border patrol agents saw a spike in illegal entries in January, immediately after President Bush proposed relaxing immigration laws to allow illegal aliens to become guest workers.
MARK KRIKORIAN, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: The administration has, in fact, stopped talking about the president's amnesty proposal because it went over like a lead balloon. But the fact is, when you set something like this in motion, it continues to have an effect.
WIAN: The recent increase in apprehension seems likely to end four years of fewer arrests nationally. Last year, the border patrol caught 932,000 illegal aliens, the smallest number since 1980.
(on camera): While beefing up security at the border is important, most immigration experts agree what's needed is a crackdown far from the border, on employers willing to hire illegal aliens with little fear of prosecution. Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next, would you work for $5.15 an hour? Millions of hard working Americans have no choice. We'll have a debate tonight over whether they deserve a raise. Our "Face Off" is coming up next.
Also, one of the world's largest media companies has managed to substantially cut its massive debt and post impressive profits. I'll be talking with the head of CNN's parent company, Time Warner. Chairman, CEO, Dick Parsons.
And our special feature this week, America works as we celebrate the men and women who make this country work. We'll meet a Connecticut woman who loves her job no matter how you slice it. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Time Warner today delivering on its promise of improved results. The world's largest media company, the parent of CNN saying it earned almost a billion dollars in the first quarter. That's a jump of 140 percent from a year ago. But shares of Time Warner are down about 6 percent so far this year.
The man who leads Time Warner joins me now, from what will be our new studios in Manhattan. Dick Parsons, Chairman and CEO of Time Warner, good to have you with us.
First, congratulations on those results. The primary reason for the improving business?
RICHARD PARSONS, CEO TIME WARNER: Well, I think, Lou, this is the first time in three years that we've been hitting on all cylinders. All of our businesses are up. We said a year ago we going to put a strategy in place to run all our businesses better than they have run in the past and find ways for the business to help each other create incremental earnings, and it's coming to pass. We put new management in place. The businesses are strong. The management is strong. The economy is picking up. We're hitting on all cylinders.
DOBBS: You have also reduced, significantly, debt much faster than Wall Street expected you to, taking it down from $30 billion to under $20 billion. You've sold off the music business. You've sold off a couple sports teams. Wall Street is looking now to say, does that mean that Time Warner is about to go on the acquisition path and they're watching, because they're watching that stock performance?
PARSONS: Well, what it means, first of all, in terms of stock, I'm hopeful we put our rings out after the market closes. I'm hoping we'll see positive, upward movement tomorrow, Because, I think our results were better than what anybody expected.
In terms of the balance sheet, we have the balance sheet in shape. We are poised to be able to not only focus on fixing and turning the businesses and returning them well, but taking advantage of opportunities to the extent there are. Opportunities, that we can, you know, increase our return on investment and gross profile.
But I said to our investors, whom I spoke to just a moment ago on Wall Street, we're going to be very focused, we're going to be very disciplined, we're going to be very patient. We're not going to let this money burn a hole in our pocket, so to speak.
The object here is to make sure that whatever we do, we do it in the way that we can see how and when it's going to add value from a shareholder perspective.
DOBBS: In terms of adding value, Wall Street, in some ways, divided over whether or not you should stick with AOL or get rid of AOL. Also, very concerned, as are all your shareholders, the organization itself, about the disposition of the SEC and the Justice Department investigations of Time Warner. Where do they stand? What is your thinking?
PARSONS: Well, let me take them in the order you served them. In terms of AOL, the numbers we put out today, frankly surprised people. It didn't surprise us, because we've been managing the asset. But AOL earnings growth was 21 percent year over year. Subscriber declines were down. That business is stabilizing.
There's a lot more value there than we're getting credit for. And we think we've got the right management team in place, we think we've got the right approach. And I think you're going to see us continue to surprise the investor community. And I think you're going to see the values start to come back into our holding of that asset.
In terms of the SEC and DOJ, we've consistently updated the marketplace on significant developments. They're laid out in our 10-Q which we filed a couple weeks ago. And we don't really have anything to add at this point in time. It is not a useful thing to get involved in the public discussion of this. It is out there in terms of what we think needs to be disclosed. And we'll just stay with that.
DOBBS: Are you anxious to get it resolved?
PARSONS: Sure.
DOBBS: Let's turn to another issue. As you know in this broadcast we have been focusing on outsourcing, amongst the about 600 corporations that we have listed. Amongst the first we put up was a company called at that time, AOL Time Warner, it is now Time Warner. Your position on outsourcing. And have we convinced you to change the approach?
PARSONS: Well, let me tell what you my position is by giving you a little history here, Lou. I noticed you had Henry Kissinger. When I met him, he and I both worked for Nelson Rockefeller who was then governor of New York. It was was 1970. And the first assignment I was given as a young lawyer was to sort of figure out how we could stem the flow of jobs from New York to places like North Carolina and Georgia where textile jobs were going.
As I listen to the current outsourcing debate, it's like the more things change the more they stay the same. Now it's not flowing from one state to another, it's job flowing from one country to another, one sector of the world to another.
The answer is, I don't think you can jaw bone this or even legislate this back into its box. The answer, to me, what we have to do is make sure that Americans are educated en masse so that the higher tech, higher skilled jobs that are created by new technology and by our expanding businesses can stay here and be attacked and taken up by people who are here.
You can't -- as you know, we have actually some outsourced positions. We do some of our call center work. We do most of it still here in the U.S. We do some in the Philippines, we do some in India.
DOBBS: Dick, if I may, they're not going overseas. I don't think that your management team has made that decision based on the inability of Americans to do the work. You made it on the basis of lower priced labor.
PARSONS: Yes. That's exactly correct. That's why I don't think -- capital is like water. It's going to find its own level. So if you can get the same job done much more cost effectively, the same job or sometimes even better done more cost effectively someplace else, that's where capital is going to move.
What we have to do is we have to make sure that our work force can perform at a level that you can't get the same job done elsewhere, even at a lower cost. So, you know, when I was in India, which I was a month or two ago looking at some of our facilities, while we had a lot of people over there doing call center work, I noticed that everybody had a Dell computer or Compaq computers made in the U.S. on their desk. All the air conditioners were Kerry (ph) air conditioners, made in the U.S.
All the infrastructure was U.S. made high tech stuff. That's where we've got to focus on making sure our work force can be ahead of the work forces of the world, because it will be more expensive, it has to add more value.
DOBBS: I do want to point out, Dick, if I may, again, the fact is that of the trading relationship with India, we have about a 50 percent trade deficit. So, they need to buy a lot more of those Dell computers in order to give it balance. Dick Parsons we want to congratulate you on the performance. We appreciate you being here.
PARSONS: Lou, always good to be with you.
DOBBS: The long-simmering debate over raising the minimum wage. We have two opposing views in tonight's face off.
Also, she would be the hardest working butcher you ever met, and you're going to meet her. In "American Works" as we celebrate the men and women of this country who make it work.
All that and more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Millions of workers in this country work for minimum wage, $5.15 an hour. And that pay hasn't changed in more than six years, despite inflation. One proposal now in Congress would raise minimum wage to $7 and hour, however there is plenty of opposition to that idea.
And that brings us to the subject of tonight's "Face Off."
Timothy Kane, economist with the Heritage Foundation, says hike in the minimum wage would lead to a loss of jobs.
Jared Bernstein says that's not true. He says the minimum wage should be raised to reflect inflation. Senior economist for the Economic Policy Institute.
Both join us from Washington, D.C.
Let me start first, Tim, why would you object to raising the minimum wage?
TIMOTHY KANE, ECONOMIST, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: It is not just me. I think consensus of economists is whenever you raise the price of something, you are going to shrink the demand of it. That holds true for labor. I'd actually like us to get outside box a little bit and think about going in reverse direction, Lou. What about doing away with a federal minimum wage and let the state dose it on their own? The fact you brought up, the minimum wage hasn't been raised since 1997. And yet real wages after, inflation keep rising. We don't need the micro management from D.C. from this one.
DOBBS: Jared, your thoughts.
JARED BERNSTEIN, SENIOR ECONOMIST, ECONOMIC POLICY INST.: I think what Tim represents is a on old consensus among economist, it's no longer particularly valid. The fact is, we've had many experiences over time with increasing the federal minimum wage. And Every Time this same job loss argument is trotted out. I, for one, am a veteran of the debates. And in fact, every time the minimum wage gets increased, we here same arguments about job loss, its increase, and guess what, it goes exactly the other way. Back in 1996, we increased the minimum wage from $4.25 to $5.15. And what followed was the best half decade that low-wage workers have ever seen. It is a difficult problem for those who oppose the increase.
DOBBS: Tim, what do you say to that?
KANE: It is a tired debate. I definitely agree.
DOBBS: Wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I'm talking about the point. Point of fact that when the minimum wage was raised there were no job losses.
KANE: What we're talking about is there weren't as many job gains as there could have been. And by that logic, you could raise this every year. In fact, why not raise it to $50. Because, it's not going to work.
BERNSTEIN: That definitely is off the table. What we're talking about is a moderate increase in the minimum wage to replace the value eroded by inflation. As you said in your lead in, $5.15 an hour, that about $10,700 a year. What family can live on twice that amount in any American city? By the way, the notion you would allow states to opt out that, that would gut the law. In essence, you would be allowing supply and demand of the workers down below a level Congress deems minimal.
DOBBS: Tim, let's address this issue another way. As we have watched the poverty rate rise offer the last several years, why not raise the minimum wage to offset part of that?
KANE: Well, if it would fix poverty I would be all for it, Lou. I think we all agree that poverty is something that's not tollerable in advanced society. But I liken this to pushing a rope. You can't push a rope. The soviet union tried to push all kinds of ropes and control all sorts of prices, and it doesn't work. We have allowed inflation to erode the minimum wage, and it really hasn't had a negative impact. Poverty over the long haul is going away in this country. Companies are raising wages. I think what we see, and my frustration is the minimum wage becomes a de facto maximum wage for low skilled workers. The companies don't have to assess the value of their work force. They just say, it is minimum wage, that's what you get. I would like Ohio and Michigan experiment with something different. And if their economies boom, then we have learned something. But right now we can't. We pushing a rope, one size fits all policy from D.C.
BERNSTEIN: One point I agree is that businesses say, here's the minimum wage, here is what it's set out and what here is what you get paid. $5.15 an hour that we set back in 1996 is just too low for workers to make ends meet. Since we raised the minimum wage back in 1996, by the way, it was President Clinton and a Republican Congress that raised the wage back than, its value of the increase has been holely erode. If we raise it, millions of workers at that level will get a moderate increase. We are talking about 5.15 to $6.50, $7 an hour. Anyone who believes that is will send the bottom out of the labor market isn't taking a realistic view of the issue.
DOBBS: You get the last word, Tim.
BERNSTEIN: I would like to say there are state that is have higher minimum wages than the federal government and some that don't have minimum wage. Ohio in particularly, has minimum wages set, but they are lower than the federal standard. Let's let them take those out and give them a try. And again, lets move beyond this tired debate, Lou, I think you would agree, that it's maybe time to try a different approach to ending poverty in America. DOBBS: If it were the only way to end poverty, like you, we would agree to do it. The fact of the matter is, it's just a way to help working men and women receive a fair income. It seems to me, tired it may be, the debate, but the issue critically important and still before us. We thank you very much for (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the issue.
That brings us to the subject of "Tonight's Poll." Do you think the minimum wage should be raised? Yes or no. Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Next, she's a single mom with a work ethic that won't quit. The inspiring story of Faye Gately ahead in our series as we celebrate the men and women of this country who make it work. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A sharp selloff on Wall Street today. The Dow down 135 points, the Nasdaq lost 43, the S&P down almost 16. Christine Romans with the market now.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Three stocks fell for each that rose and volume was heavy today. Investor fear of higher interest rates driving prices lower. Financial stocks were the biggest drag on the S&P. Nortel Network stock collapsed 28 percent after it sacked its CEO and two others and will again restate last year's earnings, half of that profit will be lost. Stocks down, outsourcing up. Unisys admits it (AUDIO GAP) is firing 2,800 global technology workers and admits it will move some of those jobs to Malaysia and India. Some insurance jobs are coming home however. Conseco has moved all but 53 of 800 outsourced jobs back to be handled again in Chicago and Carmel, Indiana -- Lou.
DOBBS: Welcome home. That's nice to hear. Thanks very much, Christine.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.
Diane Diamantopoulos of Holiday, Florida. "Who does Cheney think he works for? He works for us, the American taxpayers."
Kathy of Gurnee, Illinois. "What is fair for one party is fair for the other. This constant arguing between the two parties is just stupid. If my kids acted this way when they were five they would have been sent to their rooms."
Darrell Halcomb of Ocala, Florida, writing about the middle-class squeeze. "Lou, the middle class working people are the heart of America yet our federal government seems to be trying to tear the heart out of America. Our jobs are exported overseas, we cannot get health insurance, wages are going down and now we do not know if we get paid overtime. I thought our government was supposed to represent us but it's too busy giving away our jobs and money to be concerned with its citizens." And Glen in Yuma, Arizona, one of my favorite cities. "Lou, what's wrong with this picture? The U.S. exports jobs to Mexico, Mexico exports illegal aliens to the United States."
We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@CNN.com.
Now "America Works." A week-long series of special reports celebrating the people who make this country work. Tonight the story of Faye Gately who works at a small butcher shop in Connecticut. Bill Tucker has her story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The country butcher is a friendly place, the kind with a welcoming steer out front. It is the sort of place you would expect to find Faye Gately.
FAYE GATELY, SINGLE MOTHER WITH TWO DAUGHTERS: I started working up front as a part-time job. My children were very small at the time, in kindergarten so I was able to work kindergarten hours.
TUCKER: Faye is a single mom. And as her girls grew, so did Faye's hours and responsibilities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's always been the big joke that she's been our right-hand man.
GATELY: I have a little catering to do but I can handle that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's been wonderful to work with, helping us to take some of the pressure off of me as far as the every day production goes.
GATELY: I'll order some more ham shanks for smoking.
Steve and his family, to me, I've known him since he was 10 or 11 years old. We were in 4-H together.
TUCKER: And the youth group 4-H remains important this time in the lives of her two teenage daughters.
GATELY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It's very popular around here. Both my girls show sheep. My oldest shows sheep all over the country.
TUCKER: As for Faye's job, she love it.
GATELY: I do something different every day which I like. I don't get bored.
TUCKER: And she plans on working right up until...
GATELY: My daughter can support me when she gets out of college.
TUCKER: Faye is a very important member of the family, not only at home but here at work. And to underscore the nature of that relationship, the entire butcher shop sits down every day and has lunch together. Bill Tucker, Ellington, Connecticut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And when we continue we'll have the results of our poll tonight. We remind you, our website has the complete list of almost 600 companies we have confirmed to be exporting America at CNN.com/lou. We'll continue in a moment. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight. 90 percent of you say the minimum wage should be raised. 10 percent do not. That's the broadcast for tonight. Thanks for being with us. Please join us tomorrow. Retired Army General William Odom will join us. He says the United States has failed in Iraq and should now leave. And Congressman Mac Collins joins us. The Republican congressman voted against NAFTA, CAFTA, and the FTAA because he says it's all about the jobs. For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 28, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Tonight, airstrikes on Fallujah. U.S. Marines prepare to go on the offensive against insurgents.
CAPT. DOUGLAS ZEMBIEC, U.S. MARINES: We've been playing patty- cake with these insurgents.
DOBBS: Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger says the United States must stand firm in Iraq. I'll talk with Henry Kissinger about Iraq, the Arab-Israeli conflict and the global war on terror.
Some Democrats say Senator John Kerry can't defeat President Bush in November. Is the senator's campaign in disarray? Senior political analyst Bill Schneider with the story.
Millions of Americans are living on the minimum wage. It hasn't changed in six years. In our "Face-Off" tonight, opposing views on whether the federal government should raise the minimum wage.
A dramatic increase in the number of illegal aliens crossing the border with Mexico, after the president unveiled its plans for a guest worker program.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The administration has, in fact, stopped talking about the president's amnesty proposal.
DOBBS: Tonight, our special report, "Broken Borders."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Wednesday, April 28. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening.
Tonight, heavy fighting between U.S. Marines and insurgents in the Iraqi city of Fallujah. For a second night, the Marines called in an AC-130 gunship to bombard insurgent positions. And earlier, U.S. fighter aircraft dropped laser-guided bombs on insurgent strongholds.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS (voice-over): U.S. Marine Cobra and Huey helicopters firing on Fallujah early in the day. KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You were just hearing the echo of fresh gunfire across Fallujah.
DOBBS: U.S. gunships then pounded more targets after nightfall.
PENHAUL: We're pointing the camera east of our position. And approximately two or three miles there out towards the horizon, we can still see the afterglow of orange flame and black plumes of smoke are rising up into Fallujah's night sky. That's the aftermath of an airstrike by an AC-130 Spectre gunship.
DOBBS: U.S. officials today said, once again, their patience for negotiation is limited.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. DEPUTY CHIEF OF OPERATIONS: I think it is a credit to the people that we have at that table that they're still willing to sit down, still willing to listen, and still willing to entertain the notion of a peaceful settlement inside Fallujah, when everything that's coming out from Fallujah is trying to tell us just the opposite.
DOBBS: U.S. Marines dismiss speculation that this was an assault against the Sunni stronghold.
ZEMBIEC: We've been playing patty-cake with these insurgents. We have not begun to do offensive operations. And the world will see that when we do.
DOBBS: President Bush says the resistance will increase as the June 30 approaches.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What you must realize is happening in a place like Fallujah is the closer we come to passing sovereignty, the more likely it is that foreign fighters disgruntled Baathists, or friends of the Shia cleric will try to stop progress. That's what is happening. They want to kill innocent life to try to get us to quit. And we're not going to. And our military commanders will take whatever action is necessary to secure Fallujah on behalf of the Iraqi people.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: U.S. troops remained poised to strike against insurgents in southern Iraqi city of Najaf. About 2,500 soldiers of the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment have massed around Najaf. Those troops have set up a check point on a bridge they seized from insurgent gunmen and those loyal to the radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. The coalition has not repeated its threat, however, to capture or kill al- Sadr. And for now, U.S. military commanders appear continuously ready to negotiate.
The military is sending more tanks and armored personnel carriers to the troops surrounding and Najaf. This move reflects concerns that soldiers and Marines on the front lines are facing a much tougher fight than their commanders had expected originally.
Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report -- Jamie McIntyre.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, when the U.S. Marines were dispatched to Iraq, Lou, they left a lot of their tanks and heavy armor behind. They didn't think they would need them.
But with those same Marines now engaged in full-fledged combat in Fallujah, the Pentagon is rushing 28 tanks to the front lines, M1-A1 Abrams some for Marines, others for the 1st Cavalry Division near Baghdad. The quick-fix deployments are an acknowledgment of the obvious, that things aren't going well in parts of Iraq, despite the upbeat pronouncements from the administration.
In fact, officials who have contact with General John Abizaid, the top U.S. commander for Iraq, report that he's worried that anti- American violence will spread and he's particularly concerned that more moderate Iraqis aren't stepping forward to condemn the insurgents. Sources say part of the reason for a delay in the planned Fallujah offensive is that Abizaid believes a military solution cannot be imposed without more political support from the average Iraqis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. JOHN ABIZAID, CMDR., U.S. CENTRAL COMMAND: There is no solution to this prop other than an Iraqi solution. All of us have known it from the beginning. We do everything that we can to empower Iraqi institutions.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: So far the insurgents have succeeded, to some degree, in intimidating the Iraqi population by murder and threats. There was a wanted poster circulating around Fallujah offering $15 million for anyone who would kill Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld or Generals Sanchez and Kimmitt. Still, the Pentagon insists that a silent support the U.S.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It takes courage in a violent environment for a person to stand up and say, I'm for law and order. I'm for freedom. I'm for a representative system. And there are a lot of them doing that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Lou, tonight, sources tell CNN that General Abizaid will ask for more troops for Iraq if the security situation continues to deteriorate over the next month or so. And the Pentagon has already made plans to accommodate that request if and when it comes -- Lou.
DOBBS: And do we know where those troops will be coming from, Jamie?
MCINTYRE: We don't know. The Pentagon has identified the source of troops not only to maintain the 135,000 there now, but to increase that level, if that's what General Abizaid asks for.
DOBBS: In your report, Jamie, a remarkable contrast, General Abizaid, the man on the ground in Iraq with full responsibility for Iraq, talking about his disappointment with the support that the U.S. forces are receiving from moderates in Iraq, and the secretary of defense on U.S. shores talking about the strength of that support.
MCINTYRE: Well, I think what it reflects is General Abizaid is absolutely convinced he has the combat power he needs to prevail, whether it is in Fallujah or to take on the forces of Muqtada al-Sadr and defeat them.
But he's worried about the public opinion and the perception that Iraqis need to believe that they're fighting for Iraqis. And what he's disappointed in, according to people that he's confided in, is that more Iraqi leaders haven't stepped forward. The Iraqis, he believes, need to be led by Iraqis if they're going to confront this problem with the insurgency. And that's what he's concerned about as the U.S. gets closer to this June 30 turnover of sovereignty.
DOBBS: Thank you, Jamie -- Jamie McIntyre, our senior Pentagon correspondent.
The government's wartime powers and citizen rights the central issue in a landmark case now before the Supreme Court. The justices today considered the president's authority to hold American citizens in a military jail without charges or without access to an attorney. This case concerns two American citizens the government has designated enemy combatants in the war on terror.
Bob Franken reports from the U.S. Supreme Court in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two individuals, Jose Padilla, U.S. born and raised, arrested in Chicago O'Hare Airport accused of participating in a dirty bomb plot. And Yaser Hamdi, also a U.S. citizen, but raised in Saudi, he was captured on the Afghan battlefield. Both declared enemy combatants by the Pentagon, never charged and held indefinitely. Two cases, the lawyers argue, but one overriding issue.
JENNIFER MARTINEZ, ATTORNEY FOR PADILLA: Never before in the nation's history has this court granted the president a blank check to do whatever he wants to American citizens.
FRANKEN: The administration maintaining that in this time of war the president must have extraordinary power.
PAUL CLEMENT, U.S. ATTORNEY: But it has been well established and long established that the government has the authority to hold both unlawful enemy combatants and lawful prisoners of war captured on the battlefield in order to prevent them from returning to the battle.
FRANKEN: That would include U.S. citizens, said Clement, particularly when officials decide they need to be interrogated. Not only does the president have the power as commander in chief, he argued. Congress, right after September 11, authorized it. The justices vigorously questioned both sides.
JUSTICE SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR: It does say in this authorization the president is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks.
FRANK DUNHAM JR., ATTORNEY FOR HAMDI: We could have people locked up all over the country tomorrow without any due process, without any opportunity to be heard.
JUSTICE RUTH BADER GINSBURG: Is it just up to the good will of the executive? Is there any judicial check?
CLEMENT: Where the government is on a war footing, that you have to trust the executive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: It's a question both sides agree of balance, and the justices, Lou, are going to have to decide which way in a matter of war is the balance going to tip, individual rights or national defense -- Lou.
DOBBS: Obviously, a critical, critical issue.
Bob Franken, thank you very much, reporting from the Supreme Court.
A judge in Spain indicted a Moroccan man on charges he helped plan the September 11 attacks. Spanish police are hunting the man in connection with the Madrid train bombings in March. Those attacks killed almost 200 people. The judge said the Moroccan helped organize a meeting in Spain in July of 2001. That was to finalize details of the September 11 attacks.
Still ahead, some Democrats say Senator John Kerry may be losing the battle to President Bush. The election is still six months away. Senior political analyst Bill Schneider joins me.
The Bush administration says overseas outsourcing is good for America unless the product is prescription drugs. We'll have a special report.
And in our "Face-Off" tonight, two opposite views on whether the federal government should raise the minimum wage, which hasn't changed in more than six years -- all of that and more still ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Leading Democrats on Capitol Hill today said they believe the Bush administration has no strategy for the resolution in the war on Iraq. The Democrats made those comments after National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice delivered a briefing on Iraq. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW JERSEY: I heard nothing in Dr. Rice's presentation whether in her opening statement or in answers to questions that give us any greater sense of security about where we're headed on Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Meanwhile, many Democrats are also growing frustrated with one key member of their own party, Senator John Kerry. He's under increasing pressure in some quarters to find a defining strategy for his campaign.
Joining me, our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider.
Bill, what are you hearing about this obviously unrest?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Consternation is what I'm hearing from Democrats. They expected John Kerry to be doing a lot better in the polls.
Polls have come out in the last week. They show him still behind President Bush. After a month of trouble, rising gas prices, casualties in Iraq, lots of setbacks, the 9/11 Commission, they thought Kerry would be doing better. Some are saying it was a mistake for him to get into a fight with President Bush over national security credentials. That was a fight he can't possibly win.
You're hearing criticisms of the polls. Democrats are saying, forget the national polls. Look at the battleground states, where Kerry is just barely holding even with President Bush. And you are even hearing some unreconstructed Howard Dean types out there who say, we ought to push John Kerry off the ticket, just get him out of there, replace him with a tough guy like Howard Dean.
DOBBS: Like Howard Dean.
Bill, what must Kerry do to bring these Democrats back into the fold and to turn it all around?
SCHNEIDER: He needs a defining theme.
In ever election where a challenger has won, he's done it by finding a theme that Americans want that they're not getting to the incumbent. When Carter won after Watergate, the defining theme was morality. When Reagan won after Carter, his defining theme was leadership because Carter was wishy-washy and ineffectual.
Clinton won after the first George Bush. His defining theme was empathy. He felt your pain. And Bush won on character. What do Americans want right now that they're not getting from President Bush? In a word, they want unity. They want someone who can unify the country, because he can argue, if Kerry adopts this strategy, President Bush promised to bring the country together and he hasn't done that. I'll give you my favorite poll. The "Washington Post"/ABC News asked a question last week that said, do you think President Bush has united the country or has he divided the country? And you know what the answer was? Fifty/fifty.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Amazing. Bill Schneider, thank you very much.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
DOBBS: Today, a surprising statement from the White House on the debate over prescription drug prices in this country. A Bush administration official told a congressional committee that importing cheaper drugs into this country would cause many Americans to lose their jobs.
That, as we reported extensively, is precisely what is happening in many other industries, without objection from the White House.
Peter Viles reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: When it comes to televisions or computers made in Asia or services outsourced to India, the Bush administration says free trade is just great. It brings down prices for American consumers. But if the product is prescription drugs backed by the powerful drug lobby, suddenly the administration is worried about outsourcing. It is now arguing that importing cheaper drugs into the United States is a bad thing because it could cost U.S. jobs.
A commerce official telling a Senate hearing, quote -- "There will be a disinvestment in the United States, a loss of employment opportunities and frankly a loss an industry that is a huge multiplier." Critics call the administration's logic inconsistent and worse.
REP. RAHM EMANUEL (D), ILLINOIS: It is blackmail and intimidation that somehow if we paid lower prices here in the United States, jobs would flee. We have an unbelievably educated work force. Second of all, the NIH, which is a $28 billion taxpayer funded research arm that -- there's not a cancer drug on the market that wasn't funded through the NIH.
VILES: The drug industry employs just 293,000 Americans, but its influence in Washington is legendary.
ROBERT HAYES, MEDICARE RIGHTS CENTER: I've heard Republican congressmen, conservative Republican congressmen, suggest that the White House is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the pharmaceutical industry. That's hyperbole, I'm sure. But that being said, there's probably no single industry in this country that has a firmer grip on the politics of our nation than the pharmaceutical industry.
VILES: The administration argues that rather than driving down drug prices in the United States, a better policy is to drive up prices in Canada and Europe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VILES: A key point here. High drug prices in the United States helped foreign drug companies, too, because, right now, foreign drug companies control roughly 40 percent of the U.S. market -- Lou.
DOBBS: But doesn't everybody quite get it? The job here isn't to help the drug companies, whether they're foreign-owned or domestic. It is to help those who are buying the prescription drugs.
VILES: The thrust of the testimony by the Commerce official, Grant Aldonas, before the Senate committee is, what can we do to help the pharmaceutical industry in the United States?
DOBBS: I am so delighted, though, I must tell you, I'm excited even that the administration finally has recognized the impact of imports on jobs.
VILES: They have found some jobs they'd like to protect.
DOBBS: This is perhaps -- both the Democrats and Republicans are now turning simultaneously to some concern about working men and women in this country that will be, let's hope, well, earth-shattering.
VILES: Sure.
DOBBS: Thank you, Peter Viles.
Still ahead here, the many foreign policy challenges for this country in Iraq, in the Middle East, and throughout the rest of the world. Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger joins us next.
And shocking new information about the number of illegal aliens now crossing our "Broken Borders." We'll have a special report for you.
All of that, more stories, much more debate, and, yes, opinion coming right up.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The air attacks on Fallujah come roughly two months before the planned transfer of power in Iraq. My guest tonight says the United States must stand firm in Iraq to prevent it from becoming what he calls a black hole for terrorism.
Henry Kissinger joins me now.
Good to have you with us.
HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.
DOBBS: Fallujah. Now two weeks of negotiation, this after the U.S. said that it would go after al-Sadr, kill, or capture him. These negotiations, apparently leading nowhere. If this is a cease-fire, it is a unique cease-fire given the violence. What must be done, in your judgment, in Fallujah.
KISSINGER: Sadr is in a different town.
DOBBS: Najaf.
KISSINGER: In Najaf, which is a similar, slightly different problem.
Fallujah, there's nothing to negotiate about, other than the surrender of their arms and of the people who killed the four Americans, which, in my view, they will not do. And Fallujah has sort of become the test case of American politics. We want to turn over power. And we should. But it will be meaningless if it looks as if the insurgents in Fallujah, a combination of Baathists, al Qaeda, and foreign insurrectionists, if they can extract concessions from America, if they can present to the rest of the Arab world as having been achieved by facing down American power, that is the absolutely key issue.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: A key issue. But this administration, every administration before it, has said they would never negotiate with terrorists, yet that is precisely the spectacle that we are witnessing, is it not, in Fallujah.
KISSINGER: We have made demands which, on the face of it, look like asking the terrorists to surrender by giving up their arms.
And the reasoning behind it is that they are supposed to be moderate elements in Fallujah, and they probably are, who would be more likely to be on our side if we show moderation. I believe that whatever moderate elements exist in Fallujah are so terrified of this combination of forces that is they cannot make their preferences -- to carry them through, if, indeed, they have such preferences.
DOBBS: In Najaf, Muqtada al-Sadr holed up with his militia, again an estimated 2,500 U.S. troops, Army, surrounding the city, negotiations under way there as well. This is the same man that the U.S. forces said they were going to kill or capture. What is the prospect for this resolution?
KISSINGER: We have perhaps an even more complicated situation because it is the oldest city of the Shiite religion, in many ways.
And also this is a conflict not just between Sadr and us, but between Sadr and Sistani, the more moderate ayatollah who, however, does dare to avow his convictions and he's making fairly moderate statements. So, the paradox is, if Sadr were to prevail and face us down in the same problem a in Fallujah, it would drive Sistani into a morning intransigent direction.
DOBBS: The appearance is, as we are rushing heavy armor to Fallujah and Najaf, as we continue discussion and negotiation, where once there was the delicate statement, kill or capture al-Sadr, the demands for justice after the mutilation and the murder of four Americans, this is beginning to look like, A, there's been unquestioned -- unquestionable lack of manpower, U.S. manpower or strength to carry out the will of the U.S. government.
Secondly, with General Abizaid saying clearly that he's disappointed in the level of support from the moderate faction, whatever size that moderate faction is within Iraq, this is a period in which it looks as though the United States is on the verge of determining whether it will meet failure or success.
KISSINGER: It is a turning point.
And we will not be able to gauge the degree of support and extent of moderate forces there until we have disarmed the militias in these two towns, because if militants can take over towns and then extract concessions from us or even acquiescence from us, this is a pattern that is likely to spread maybe across Iraq, maybe even in to Baghdad.
And then the political process, which the administration is pushing, will not be able to succeed.
DOBBS: Is there, at this point, a role for the other Arab states in the region to be supportive of U.S. policy? Is there any likelihood of it? Would it be to any avail?
KISSINGER: Ultimately, one would hope that both the Europeans and the modern Arabs that are under direct attack themselves, because they're much more immediately threatened than even we are, would support it.
But it is a vicious circle. If they believe that we are in -- that we are not able to maintain our position there, then they will be a reluctant as the moderate Iraqis to support us. I believe the administration is doing the right thing. And I believe the administration must prevail, but the American public has to understand that this is a turning point that you cannot have slogans of negotiation, rather than swords. We first have to prevail and then we can do the political process leading to a representative government.
DOBBS: The political process proceeding after demonstrating strength. As Henry Kissinger says, if I may summarize your statement, the Bush administration and the United States must remain firm in Iraq.
Henry Kissinger, as always, it's good to have you with us.
KISSINGER: Great pleasure to be here. Thank you.
DOBBS: North Korea is making use of international aid tonight as it is recovering from last week's disastrous train explosion. That explosion killed nearly 200 people and injured hundreds more, at least, leaving a scene of devastation that one Western aid worker called simply apocalyptic. Millions in dollars from several Western nations is either in North Korea or rushing on its way to North Korea. But, tonight, the North Koreans have issued an unusual request: Please send television sets. The Pyongyang government has turned down South Korea's offer to send first aid and medical workers, but officials are asking, North Korean officials are asking for school supplies and 50 color televisions sets, the bizarre request criticized by a major South Korean newspaper today, which wrote in an editorial, "The North must think first about the magnitude and the severity of this disaster."
A South Korean ship, by the way, loaded with food and medicine, is headed for North Korea. The Seoul government alone is planning to send nearly $22 million of aid to North Korea to help recover from its efforts to recover from the disaster.
Tonight, in "Broken Borders," we've been reporting here, for months, on the problem of illegal immigration. Now, the number of illegal aliens crossing the Mexican border has risen dramatically. Casey Wian report from Los Angeles.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is a scene played in night after night in small towns like Nogales, Arizona and big cities like San Diego, California: illegal aliens chased, caught, and deported by U.S. immigration authorities. The border patrol says arrests of illegal aliens along the U.S. southern border jumped 25 percent in the past six months compared to the same period a year ago. In some places, like the Arizona desert, apprehensions are up more than 50 percent.
ROBERT BONNER, COMM. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION: Border patrol is more mobile, more effective using its technology in apprehending in a greater number of illegal aliens coming into the U.S. And also, we are seeing, I believe, an increase in the flow of illegal aliens.
WIAN: Whether the numbers are a result of more manpower and better resources along the border, or an inflection of number of illegals trying to cross is debatable. Border patrol agents saw a spike in illegal entries in January, immediately after President Bush proposed relaxing immigration laws to allow illegal aliens to become guest workers.
MARK KRIKORIAN, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: The administration has, in fact, stopped talking about the president's amnesty proposal because it went over like a lead balloon. But the fact is, when you set something like this in motion, it continues to have an effect.
WIAN: The recent increase in apprehension seems likely to end four years of fewer arrests nationally. Last year, the border patrol caught 932,000 illegal aliens, the smallest number since 1980.
(on camera): While beefing up security at the border is important, most immigration experts agree what's needed is a crackdown far from the border, on employers willing to hire illegal aliens with little fear of prosecution. Casey Wian, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Coming up next, would you work for $5.15 an hour? Millions of hard working Americans have no choice. We'll have a debate tonight over whether they deserve a raise. Our "Face Off" is coming up next.
Also, one of the world's largest media companies has managed to substantially cut its massive debt and post impressive profits. I'll be talking with the head of CNN's parent company, Time Warner. Chairman, CEO, Dick Parsons.
And our special feature this week, America works as we celebrate the men and women who make this country work. We'll meet a Connecticut woman who loves her job no matter how you slice it. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Time Warner today delivering on its promise of improved results. The world's largest media company, the parent of CNN saying it earned almost a billion dollars in the first quarter. That's a jump of 140 percent from a year ago. But shares of Time Warner are down about 6 percent so far this year.
The man who leads Time Warner joins me now, from what will be our new studios in Manhattan. Dick Parsons, Chairman and CEO of Time Warner, good to have you with us.
First, congratulations on those results. The primary reason for the improving business?
RICHARD PARSONS, CEO TIME WARNER: Well, I think, Lou, this is the first time in three years that we've been hitting on all cylinders. All of our businesses are up. We said a year ago we going to put a strategy in place to run all our businesses better than they have run in the past and find ways for the business to help each other create incremental earnings, and it's coming to pass. We put new management in place. The businesses are strong. The management is strong. The economy is picking up. We're hitting on all cylinders.
DOBBS: You have also reduced, significantly, debt much faster than Wall Street expected you to, taking it down from $30 billion to under $20 billion. You've sold off the music business. You've sold off a couple sports teams. Wall Street is looking now to say, does that mean that Time Warner is about to go on the acquisition path and they're watching, because they're watching that stock performance?
PARSONS: Well, what it means, first of all, in terms of stock, I'm hopeful we put our rings out after the market closes. I'm hoping we'll see positive, upward movement tomorrow, Because, I think our results were better than what anybody expected.
In terms of the balance sheet, we have the balance sheet in shape. We are poised to be able to not only focus on fixing and turning the businesses and returning them well, but taking advantage of opportunities to the extent there are. Opportunities, that we can, you know, increase our return on investment and gross profile.
But I said to our investors, whom I spoke to just a moment ago on Wall Street, we're going to be very focused, we're going to be very disciplined, we're going to be very patient. We're not going to let this money burn a hole in our pocket, so to speak.
The object here is to make sure that whatever we do, we do it in the way that we can see how and when it's going to add value from a shareholder perspective.
DOBBS: In terms of adding value, Wall Street, in some ways, divided over whether or not you should stick with AOL or get rid of AOL. Also, very concerned, as are all your shareholders, the organization itself, about the disposition of the SEC and the Justice Department investigations of Time Warner. Where do they stand? What is your thinking?
PARSONS: Well, let me take them in the order you served them. In terms of AOL, the numbers we put out today, frankly surprised people. It didn't surprise us, because we've been managing the asset. But AOL earnings growth was 21 percent year over year. Subscriber declines were down. That business is stabilizing.
There's a lot more value there than we're getting credit for. And we think we've got the right management team in place, we think we've got the right approach. And I think you're going to see us continue to surprise the investor community. And I think you're going to see the values start to come back into our holding of that asset.
In terms of the SEC and DOJ, we've consistently updated the marketplace on significant developments. They're laid out in our 10-Q which we filed a couple weeks ago. And we don't really have anything to add at this point in time. It is not a useful thing to get involved in the public discussion of this. It is out there in terms of what we think needs to be disclosed. And we'll just stay with that.
DOBBS: Are you anxious to get it resolved?
PARSONS: Sure.
DOBBS: Let's turn to another issue. As you know in this broadcast we have been focusing on outsourcing, amongst the about 600 corporations that we have listed. Amongst the first we put up was a company called at that time, AOL Time Warner, it is now Time Warner. Your position on outsourcing. And have we convinced you to change the approach?
PARSONS: Well, let me tell what you my position is by giving you a little history here, Lou. I noticed you had Henry Kissinger. When I met him, he and I both worked for Nelson Rockefeller who was then governor of New York. It was was 1970. And the first assignment I was given as a young lawyer was to sort of figure out how we could stem the flow of jobs from New York to places like North Carolina and Georgia where textile jobs were going.
As I listen to the current outsourcing debate, it's like the more things change the more they stay the same. Now it's not flowing from one state to another, it's job flowing from one country to another, one sector of the world to another.
The answer is, I don't think you can jaw bone this or even legislate this back into its box. The answer, to me, what we have to do is make sure that Americans are educated en masse so that the higher tech, higher skilled jobs that are created by new technology and by our expanding businesses can stay here and be attacked and taken up by people who are here.
You can't -- as you know, we have actually some outsourced positions. We do some of our call center work. We do most of it still here in the U.S. We do some in the Philippines, we do some in India.
DOBBS: Dick, if I may, they're not going overseas. I don't think that your management team has made that decision based on the inability of Americans to do the work. You made it on the basis of lower priced labor.
PARSONS: Yes. That's exactly correct. That's why I don't think -- capital is like water. It's going to find its own level. So if you can get the same job done much more cost effectively, the same job or sometimes even better done more cost effectively someplace else, that's where capital is going to move.
What we have to do is we have to make sure that our work force can perform at a level that you can't get the same job done elsewhere, even at a lower cost. So, you know, when I was in India, which I was a month or two ago looking at some of our facilities, while we had a lot of people over there doing call center work, I noticed that everybody had a Dell computer or Compaq computers made in the U.S. on their desk. All the air conditioners were Kerry (ph) air conditioners, made in the U.S.
All the infrastructure was U.S. made high tech stuff. That's where we've got to focus on making sure our work force can be ahead of the work forces of the world, because it will be more expensive, it has to add more value.
DOBBS: I do want to point out, Dick, if I may, again, the fact is that of the trading relationship with India, we have about a 50 percent trade deficit. So, they need to buy a lot more of those Dell computers in order to give it balance. Dick Parsons we want to congratulate you on the performance. We appreciate you being here.
PARSONS: Lou, always good to be with you.
DOBBS: The long-simmering debate over raising the minimum wage. We have two opposing views in tonight's face off.
Also, she would be the hardest working butcher you ever met, and you're going to meet her. In "American Works" as we celebrate the men and women of this country who make it work.
All that and more still ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
Millions of workers in this country work for minimum wage, $5.15 an hour. And that pay hasn't changed in more than six years, despite inflation. One proposal now in Congress would raise minimum wage to $7 and hour, however there is plenty of opposition to that idea.
And that brings us to the subject of tonight's "Face Off."
Timothy Kane, economist with the Heritage Foundation, says hike in the minimum wage would lead to a loss of jobs.
Jared Bernstein says that's not true. He says the minimum wage should be raised to reflect inflation. Senior economist for the Economic Policy Institute.
Both join us from Washington, D.C.
Let me start first, Tim, why would you object to raising the minimum wage?
TIMOTHY KANE, ECONOMIST, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: It is not just me. I think consensus of economists is whenever you raise the price of something, you are going to shrink the demand of it. That holds true for labor. I'd actually like us to get outside box a little bit and think about going in reverse direction, Lou. What about doing away with a federal minimum wage and let the state dose it on their own? The fact you brought up, the minimum wage hasn't been raised since 1997. And yet real wages after, inflation keep rising. We don't need the micro management from D.C. from this one.
DOBBS: Jared, your thoughts.
JARED BERNSTEIN, SENIOR ECONOMIST, ECONOMIC POLICY INST.: I think what Tim represents is a on old consensus among economist, it's no longer particularly valid. The fact is, we've had many experiences over time with increasing the federal minimum wage. And Every Time this same job loss argument is trotted out. I, for one, am a veteran of the debates. And in fact, every time the minimum wage gets increased, we here same arguments about job loss, its increase, and guess what, it goes exactly the other way. Back in 1996, we increased the minimum wage from $4.25 to $5.15. And what followed was the best half decade that low-wage workers have ever seen. It is a difficult problem for those who oppose the increase.
DOBBS: Tim, what do you say to that?
KANE: It is a tired debate. I definitely agree.
DOBBS: Wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I'm talking about the point. Point of fact that when the minimum wage was raised there were no job losses.
KANE: What we're talking about is there weren't as many job gains as there could have been. And by that logic, you could raise this every year. In fact, why not raise it to $50. Because, it's not going to work.
BERNSTEIN: That definitely is off the table. What we're talking about is a moderate increase in the minimum wage to replace the value eroded by inflation. As you said in your lead in, $5.15 an hour, that about $10,700 a year. What family can live on twice that amount in any American city? By the way, the notion you would allow states to opt out that, that would gut the law. In essence, you would be allowing supply and demand of the workers down below a level Congress deems minimal.
DOBBS: Tim, let's address this issue another way. As we have watched the poverty rate rise offer the last several years, why not raise the minimum wage to offset part of that?
KANE: Well, if it would fix poverty I would be all for it, Lou. I think we all agree that poverty is something that's not tollerable in advanced society. But I liken this to pushing a rope. You can't push a rope. The soviet union tried to push all kinds of ropes and control all sorts of prices, and it doesn't work. We have allowed inflation to erode the minimum wage, and it really hasn't had a negative impact. Poverty over the long haul is going away in this country. Companies are raising wages. I think what we see, and my frustration is the minimum wage becomes a de facto maximum wage for low skilled workers. The companies don't have to assess the value of their work force. They just say, it is minimum wage, that's what you get. I would like Ohio and Michigan experiment with something different. And if their economies boom, then we have learned something. But right now we can't. We pushing a rope, one size fits all policy from D.C.
BERNSTEIN: One point I agree is that businesses say, here's the minimum wage, here is what it's set out and what here is what you get paid. $5.15 an hour that we set back in 1996 is just too low for workers to make ends meet. Since we raised the minimum wage back in 1996, by the way, it was President Clinton and a Republican Congress that raised the wage back than, its value of the increase has been holely erode. If we raise it, millions of workers at that level will get a moderate increase. We are talking about 5.15 to $6.50, $7 an hour. Anyone who believes that is will send the bottom out of the labor market isn't taking a realistic view of the issue.
DOBBS: You get the last word, Tim.
BERNSTEIN: I would like to say there are state that is have higher minimum wages than the federal government and some that don't have minimum wage. Ohio in particularly, has minimum wages set, but they are lower than the federal standard. Let's let them take those out and give them a try. And again, lets move beyond this tired debate, Lou, I think you would agree, that it's maybe time to try a different approach to ending poverty in America. DOBBS: If it were the only way to end poverty, like you, we would agree to do it. The fact of the matter is, it's just a way to help working men and women receive a fair income. It seems to me, tired it may be, the debate, but the issue critically important and still before us. We thank you very much for (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the issue.
That brings us to the subject of "Tonight's Poll." Do you think the minimum wage should be raised? Yes or no. Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
Next, she's a single mom with a work ethic that won't quit. The inspiring story of Faye Gately ahead in our series as we celebrate the men and women of this country who make it work. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A sharp selloff on Wall Street today. The Dow down 135 points, the Nasdaq lost 43, the S&P down almost 16. Christine Romans with the market now.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Three stocks fell for each that rose and volume was heavy today. Investor fear of higher interest rates driving prices lower. Financial stocks were the biggest drag on the S&P. Nortel Network stock collapsed 28 percent after it sacked its CEO and two others and will again restate last year's earnings, half of that profit will be lost. Stocks down, outsourcing up. Unisys admits it (AUDIO GAP) is firing 2,800 global technology workers and admits it will move some of those jobs to Malaysia and India. Some insurance jobs are coming home however. Conseco has moved all but 53 of 800 outsourced jobs back to be handled again in Chicago and Carmel, Indiana -- Lou.
DOBBS: Welcome home. That's nice to hear. Thanks very much, Christine.
Taking a look now at some of your thoughts.
Diane Diamantopoulos of Holiday, Florida. "Who does Cheney think he works for? He works for us, the American taxpayers."
Kathy of Gurnee, Illinois. "What is fair for one party is fair for the other. This constant arguing between the two parties is just stupid. If my kids acted this way when they were five they would have been sent to their rooms."
Darrell Halcomb of Ocala, Florida, writing about the middle-class squeeze. "Lou, the middle class working people are the heart of America yet our federal government seems to be trying to tear the heart out of America. Our jobs are exported overseas, we cannot get health insurance, wages are going down and now we do not know if we get paid overtime. I thought our government was supposed to represent us but it's too busy giving away our jobs and money to be concerned with its citizens." And Glen in Yuma, Arizona, one of my favorite cities. "Lou, what's wrong with this picture? The U.S. exports jobs to Mexico, Mexico exports illegal aliens to the United States."
We love hearing from you. E-mail us at loudobbs@CNN.com.
Now "America Works." A week-long series of special reports celebrating the people who make this country work. Tonight the story of Faye Gately who works at a small butcher shop in Connecticut. Bill Tucker has her story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The country butcher is a friendly place, the kind with a welcoming steer out front. It is the sort of place you would expect to find Faye Gately.
FAYE GATELY, SINGLE MOTHER WITH TWO DAUGHTERS: I started working up front as a part-time job. My children were very small at the time, in kindergarten so I was able to work kindergarten hours.
TUCKER: Faye is a single mom. And as her girls grew, so did Faye's hours and responsibilities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's always been the big joke that she's been our right-hand man.
GATELY: I have a little catering to do but I can handle that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's been wonderful to work with, helping us to take some of the pressure off of me as far as the every day production goes.
GATELY: I'll order some more ham shanks for smoking.
Steve and his family, to me, I've known him since he was 10 or 11 years old. We were in 4-H together.
TUCKER: And the youth group 4-H remains important this time in the lives of her two teenage daughters.
GATELY: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It's very popular around here. Both my girls show sheep. My oldest shows sheep all over the country.
TUCKER: As for Faye's job, she love it.
GATELY: I do something different every day which I like. I don't get bored.
TUCKER: And she plans on working right up until...
GATELY: My daughter can support me when she gets out of college.
TUCKER: Faye is a very important member of the family, not only at home but here at work. And to underscore the nature of that relationship, the entire butcher shop sits down every day and has lunch together. Bill Tucker, Ellington, Connecticut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And when we continue we'll have the results of our poll tonight. We remind you, our website has the complete list of almost 600 companies we have confirmed to be exporting America at CNN.com/lou. We'll continue in a moment. Please stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight. 90 percent of you say the minimum wage should be raised. 10 percent do not. That's the broadcast for tonight. Thanks for being with us. Please join us tomorrow. Retired Army General William Odom will join us. He says the United States has failed in Iraq and should now leave. And Congressman Mac Collins joins us. The Republican congressman voted against NAFTA, CAFTA, and the FTAA because he says it's all about the jobs. For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.
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