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CNN Live Today

Combat Continues in Fallujah; Taking it Slow in Najaf; Coalition Commander Urges Political Solution; Supreme Court to Rule on Wartime Powers; Boy, 12, Charged in Murder of Girl, 8

Aired April 28, 2004 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, ANCHOR: From the CNN center in Atlanta, good morning. I'm Daryn Kagan.
And up first, of course, this hour on CNN, the fight for Iraq, the fierce battle in Fallujah. Right now we go live to Fallujah and U.S. pool reporter Karl Penhaul.

We'll get to -- we'll get back to Karl in just a moment when he's ready with his report. Meanwhile, let's check in with our own Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, standing by, of course, at the Pentagon.

Barbara, if you can explain to us the difference between what we heard from the news briefing with Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt saying the ceasefire is still in effect. That doesn't match with the pictures that we're seeing out of Fallujah.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn...

KAGAN: Barbara, hold that thought. I'm sorry. Now Karl Penhaul is ready to go out of Fallujah. We'll be back with you in just a moment.

KARL PENHAUL, U.S. POOL REPORTER: Going live. We're standing here on the roof of a U.S. Marine base on the northwest edge of Fallujah.

To the east of where we're standing you can still see the plumes of gray smoke floating through the Fallujah evening sky. That, the aftermath of a strike by U.S. Marine helicopters on insurgent positions earlier this afternoon.

The firefight began about three hours ago now. A U.S. Marine sniper team had tried to move into position around Fallujah train station. That's the building on the left of your screen. The sniper team moved in there, because those were recent days, Iraqi insurgents, according to a Marine commander, had been taking positions in and around the train station, trying to set up mortar positions from which they intended, it seems, to attack Marine positions.

The U.S. sniper team that went into the train station to try and take out those insurgent positions today was, in fact, detected by insurgents. Insurgents appeared to have been holed up in buildings on the right hand side of the main road we see. Insurgents opened fire on the U.S. snipers with rocket-propelled grenades, U.S. commanders tell us.

The sniper team then had to be extracted in heavily armored Humvee vehicles by colleagues. And once they were taken to safety, Marines called in two helicopters. One, we're told, a U.S. Marine Cobra attack helicopter. The other, a Marine Huey gunship.

And they went into action, and we saw them pounding at least three buildings with machine gunfire and also with rockets and missiles in the course of about an hour and a half, and many missiles and rockets pounding those buildings, flames from three areas and then plumes of smoke going up.

Now if we look right now, a lot farther to the east of our position, we can see a heavy mushroom of black smoke going up there. That, in fact, we hear from an afternoon press briefing by General Kimmitt, the coalition military spokesman in Baghdad this afternoon, seems to be the result of another combat between coalition forces and insurgents on the northeastern edge of Fallujah.

As I say, we're on the northwestern edge. We've seen heavy firefights here involving Marine helicopters and insurgents. And that plume of smoke we've just seen go up way in the distance there seems to be the result of another -- a separate combat involving a different Marine unit with insurgents on the northeast side of Fallujah.

Certainly, those in the position where we are now, no reports of either coalition casualties or any reports of insurgent casualties on the ground. That perhaps not surprising, since the Marines, in recent days, have not been too far away from their bases and certainly aren't venturing as far as the buildings that were pounded during this afternoon's firefight to count any insurgent casualties there.

The small Marine base where we're standing also came under -- or a section of it came under rocket-propelled grenade fire. We heard those rounds impacting somewhat short of the base. We also heard insurgent gunfire firing overhead.

For that reason, two of those Marine helicopters did return to the area but were flying at heights of probably more than 1,000 feet to try and avoid any insurgent gunfire from the ground.

Now this is the third substantial gunfight in this northwestern sector of Fallujah in as many days. Yesterday, we saw AC-130 Spectre gunships in action, attacking suspected insurgent weapon caches somewhat south, about a kilometer south of our position.

And on Monday, a Marine platoon from the unit we are embedded with at this point went in to battle against insurgent fighters. One Marine died in that fighting and at least nine others were wounded.

All this fighting, though, comes amid a supposed ceasefire, a ceasefire that was agreed a little over two weeks ago between Fallujah's civic and religious leaders and coalitional authority. The deal there supposedly was that the coalition forces wouldn't attack insurgents, as long as the insurgents began to hand over their weapons and also surrender any foreign fighters. Coalitional authorities believe that foreign fighters linked to al Qaeda may be fighting alongside Iraqi insurgents, to oppose the coalition occupation of Iraq.

But certainly, in the course of two weeks, we haven't seen any of those weapons being handed over. Any weapons that have been handed over are, in the words of one Marine general, junk. And he says that there's been no good faith on the part of insurgents for that weapons handover.

As I say, live pictures there, in the evening sky in Fallujah, great plumes of smoke. That, the aftermath of a firefight between coalition force and insurgent units this afternoon here in the northwestern section of Fallujah.

This is Karl Penhaul reporting. And on the camera, John Templeton, the U.S. networks pool on the northwest edge of Fallujah, Iraq.

KAGAN: We've been listening in to U.S. pool reporter Karl Penhaul. Because of the dangerous situation in Iraq, the U.S. networks have pulled together their resources to have one correspondent and one photographer to bring the story to us here in the U.S.

Meanwhile, our Jane Arraf is standing by in Najaf, another major hot spot in Iraq, where the standoff between U.S. forces and the militia of radical Muslim cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. With the latest on that, let's bring in Jane.

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, it's clear that U.S. forces are settling in for the long haul here.

We are at this base in the desert near Najaf. A battalion of engineers, an engineering unit from Missouri is actually setting up.

And U.S. forces are also in essentially in what is the middle of Najaf, but well away from the holy city. They are taking what they say is a very measured approach.

They are not going into the holy city. They don't want to inflame the population, but they are making clear that they are here. They have a presence. And they are going to be effective if they have to be.

Now, this was demonstrated, according to military officials here, by a major engagement two nights ago in which dozens of members of the Mehdi militia were killed.

They found it was those rocket-propelled grenades and anti- aircraft guns, that they say had been used to fire possibly at coalition aircraft.

And following that, they have set up a checkpoint, a major checkpoint, on a bridge on the east side of the river, leading to Kupa (ph) and Najaf to demonstrate their presence here. At the same time, though, they are doing things like rebuilding the infrastructure, setting up projects, and waiting to see if there can be a political solution to this.

Again, a very measured approach, they say, to try to avoid violence in this holy Shia city -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And, Jane, what about reports we're getting out of Najaf that they're actually locals there and local leaders upset with Moqtada al-Sadr's militia and running them out of town? Is the U.S. military having support from locals?

ARRAF: It seems apparent that they would be upset. Essentially, what's been going on, the stranglehold of Moqtada al-Sadr's militia on the city, has basically strangled the economy, as well.

We have to remember that this is one of the major pilgrimage sites for Shias all over the world. And it normally would be crowded with pilgrims. Instead, Daryn, there are shops closed, schools closed, and ongoing violence.

As we flew by helicopter into here, there was a mortar attack at a base near here. At another base, where there's a handful, still, of civilian coalition officials, protected now by U.S. troops who have moved in to replace Spanish troops who have departed, another mortar attack. And that's a daily occurrence.

Daryn, there does appear to be some anger at Najaf at Moqtada al- Sadr, this radical Shia leader who has essentially taken control of that city -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Jane Arraf, with the latest from Najaf. Thank you for that, Jane.

Now let's go back to the Pentagon. We were about to talk with our Barbara Starr when we started to hear from Karl Penhaul. So let's bring Barbara back in -- Barbara.

STARR: Well, Daryn, even though these pictures seem to show, of course, this heavy renewed fighting across Fallujah for the last several days, from a policy, from a strategy point of view, the Bush administration officials here at the Pentagon, saying there is no change in their strategy.

That they -- excuse me, that they are going to stick with the notion of trying to make this ceasefire -- tenuous though it appears, they are going to try and make it work.

They're going to continue to talk to city officials in Fallujah. They know that they're not getting the heavy weapons turnover from the insurgents. They do hope to still start those joint patrols with the Marines and the Iraqi security forces.

But as the hours go on, it does become a very tough proposition, as the defensive actions by the U.S. Marines continue against the insurgents. Still, today, earlier in Baghdad, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said they are holding to their current policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: I can confirm that it is certainly the intention of the coalition forces that the ceasefire continues.

What you're seeing today is a series of defensive responses. When we get shot at, we will respond. We will not sit there and take fire, even though there is a ceasefire ongoing. That is inconsistent with what we stand for. That is inconsistent with the inherent right of self-defense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: But, Daryn, there's something much more fundamental going on here, and that is the long-term situation in Iraq.

General John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, is telling Bush administration officials, reminding them that his view is the military cannot be the solution in Iraq, cannot be the solution in Fallujah.

General Abizaid's view is that there must be a political solution, rebuilding, reconstruction, a political solution of Iraqi sovereignty, Iraqis standing up and taking a role in the forward movement of their country.

Officials telling us that, if there was to be a decision for an all-out military assault into Fallujah, that would be a clear sign that other options have failed. They are prepared, if they have to do it, but clearly, it is not something they want to do at this point -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, even in the briefing earlier, the last hour, Barbara, we heard General Kimmitt talk about that they're realizing there is more than a military solution and military forces at work in Fallujah.

Their frustration -- when these other leaders of the community come forward, there's not the sense that they truly have the power and speak for all the people in Fallujah. No turnover of weapons and no turnover of insurgents.

STARR: You know, that's really been the problem with these negotiations for the last couple of weeks.

There are leaders in Fallujah, clearly, who want to see a return to peace and control in the city. But can those leaders if Fallujah deliver the insurgents? Clearly not. Clearly that has not worked.

But what the military, then, is reminding the political leaders in the Bush administration of, is if there is a military assault into the city, certainly the U.S. military could take control of Fallujah, but what would that accomplish? Can they really take control of the insurgent situation? That's a very different proposition.

General Abizaid warning, again, that any assault into the city might only inflame the insurgency across Iraq even more, cause further problems. So it's a very delicate matter.

KAGAN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you for that. We'll be back with you. We will not go far from the situation, especially in Fallujah, and the live pictures and the reports from there.

Right now, though, it's just about 13 minutes past the hour. We do want to get some other news in.

And the next story coming from the Supreme Court. That's where justices are hearing a pair of cases this morning that test the president's powers during the war on terror.

Jose Padilla and Yasser Hamdi are both American citizens, but the Bush administration labels them as enemy combatants. They're being held at a military brig without the right to pursue their cases in the court. They only recently were able to see a lawyer.

The justices must decide whether the president's wartime powers are stepping on the Constitution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUTH WEDGWOOD, INTERNATIONAL LAW EXPERT: Shortly after the September 11 attacks, the Congress authorized the president, in plain words, to use force against any nation, organization or person he determines necessary.

THOMAS GOLDSTEIN, SUPREME COURT ANALYST: It's finally time for the basic questions about the scope of the president's power to hold people, without the approval of the courts, are really going to be confronted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: The court is expected to release audio recordings of the arguments in this hour. When we get portions of them, you will hear them right along with us.

For now, though, let's check in with Kendall Coffey, a former federal prosecutor and a frequent CNN contributor on legal issues, joining us from Miami this morning.

Kendall, good morning.

KENDALL COFFEY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: Looks like we have a battle here between being enemy combatant and U.S. citizen. Which one overrides?

COFFEY: Yes, and this is absolutely historic. There are so many high profile cases that have been in the news lately involving celebrities ranging from Martha Stewart to Michael Jackson, but this case may be the most important of its kind in the last 60 years.

It really is the ultimate test between the concerns about national security and individual liberty. And it also tests in a way that's very rarely been seen in our history, the checks and balances of our government.

The power of the executive, not only to conduct, for example, military operations overseas -- that's traditional, that's accepted. But here, the executive is telling the judiciary, "You have nothing to say" about a traditional judicial role, that is to say, the rights and liberties of U.S. citizens in the U.S. country, and whether or not they have to remain effectively behind bars in a prison.

KAGAN: And so Kendall, the lawyers on behalf of these men have filed habeas corpus appeals. How do those work?

COFFEY: Well, what that means is that they are challenging the right of the executive government. That is what habeas corpus means, to continue the imprisonment of these two individuals.

And what the justices of the United States Supreme Court have to decide is, in this unprecedented war of terrorism, does the president's power, military authority, as commander in chief, allow him to designate even U.S. citizens as so-called U.S. enemy or illegal combatants, and hold them, effect, in a military custody, as opposed to behind bars in the usual civil sense of a criminal charged with a crime who, of course, would have the usual rights to a trial by jury, rights to lawyer, Miranda rights and other basic liberties.

KAGAN: These two men, Jose Padilla and Yasser Hamdi, very different stories. One accused of -- accused and yet not charged with trying to deploy a dirty bomb. Yasser Hamdi came through Guantanamo Bay.

Their lives, their futures, at stake. But the bigger picture, how can this affect the war on terror and what the Justice Department is allowed to do?

COFFEY: Well, Daryn, you make a very important point, about the fact that these two cases are different.

Yasser Hamdi was captured as basically an enemy soldier on a foreign battlefield in the course of a military operation. That is an area, where I think the president as our commander in chief is going to get a lot of deference.

But Jose Padilla is a much more traditional scenario of a criminal, even though the allegations involve terrorism. He's a U.S. citizen, born in Brooklyn, converted to the Islamic faith, actually here in south Florida, and became involved in a plot, in a conspiracy, with al Qaeda, it is alleged, in a fashion that traditionally we would have charged in a U.S. criminal case.

So he in many ways, is the ultimate test of the president's powers in the war on terrorism and the collision between the interests of national security and the rights of the individual under our Constitution.

KAGAN: So even though both men's cases are being heard at the same time, perhaps very different outcomes, and not to get them too lumped together. We'll be watching it.

COFFEY: Could be two different outcomes, Daryn, you're right.

KAGAN: Kendall Coffey from south Florida. Thank you, Kendall.

COFFEY: Thank you.

KAGAN: Here in Georgia, an almost unimaginable crime. A young girl murdered. What makes this one even more shocking is who police say is now responsible. That story is up next.

Also, Jayson Williams plays a new kind of game, the waiting game. The verdict watch is ahead.

CNN LIVE TODAY will be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK REPORT)

KAGAN: Jurors in the Jayson Williams manslaughter trial resume deliberations today with a read-back of testimony from several witnesses. The jury specifically requested testimony on who allegedly told witnesses to lie to police.

Williams is on trial for the shotgun death of limousine driver Christoph (ph) Christofi at Williams' home in New Jersey. Prosecutors say Williams acted recklessly. The defense says the shooting was a tragic accident.

In the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case, day three of a pretrial evidentiary hearing. Among other things, the defense is seeking to have Bryant's statements to police tossed out because he had not been yet advised of his rights.

The court warns that more hearings may be needed next month, which means a trial might not take place before August.

Police are holding a 12-year-old boy today, accused in a crime that has shocked the metro Atlanta area.

The story now from CNN's Eric Philips.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Yellow police tape surrounds the area where the body of 8-year-old Amy Michelle Yates was found. A small shrine, growing nearby in her memory.

TIM YATES, VICTIM'S UNCLE: A piece of me is gone. And it can't be returned.

PHILIPS: What's worse for family and friends, news of who authorities believe killed Amy.

SHERIFF TERRY LANGLEY, CARROLL COUNTY, GEORGIA: We are at this time charging a local 12-year-old male with her murder.

PHILIPS: The two youngsters lived only doors apart at the Twin Oaks Mobile Home Park here in Carrollton, Georgia. Investigators allege the 12-year-old strangled Amy with his bare hands.

LANGLEY: We believe that he is responsible for murdering her, and we believe he acted alone at this point.

PHILIPS: Police say Amy left home on her bike around 5 on Monday afternoon. She was going to a friend's house in the same trailer park but never showed up.

Soon, her bike was spotted. But it would be hours before authorities would find her body in nearby woods. Jean Gossek (ph) says the 8-year-old was heading to her house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just not right. It just hurts. It shouldn't have happened.

PHILIPS: the 12-year-old is being held in a local youth detention center.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To me, in my eyes, he was still a child. I mean, I never would have thought that anything like this could have happened.

PHILIPS: Counselors were on hand at Amy's elementary school to try and make sense of all this for her classmates, but even adults are having difficulty coming to terms with that happened.

YATES: This is -- this is the most tragic loss of -- I've ever have had to endure. It just doesn't make any sense.

PHILIPS: Eric Philips, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And we are going to get back to international news, to what is happening in Fallujah, Iraq, coming up.

Also, how that's playing out politically. What does John Kerry have to say about the war in Iraq. And some harsh words from the floor of the U.S. Senate from Senator McCain, on criticism of how the president is handling the war effort.

All that is just ahead when CNN LIVE TODAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired April 28, 2004 - 11:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, ANCHOR: From the CNN center in Atlanta, good morning. I'm Daryn Kagan.
And up first, of course, this hour on CNN, the fight for Iraq, the fierce battle in Fallujah. Right now we go live to Fallujah and U.S. pool reporter Karl Penhaul.

We'll get to -- we'll get back to Karl in just a moment when he's ready with his report. Meanwhile, let's check in with our own Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr, standing by, of course, at the Pentagon.

Barbara, if you can explain to us the difference between what we heard from the news briefing with Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt saying the ceasefire is still in effect. That doesn't match with the pictures that we're seeing out of Fallujah.

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Daryn...

KAGAN: Barbara, hold that thought. I'm sorry. Now Karl Penhaul is ready to go out of Fallujah. We'll be back with you in just a moment.

KARL PENHAUL, U.S. POOL REPORTER: Going live. We're standing here on the roof of a U.S. Marine base on the northwest edge of Fallujah.

To the east of where we're standing you can still see the plumes of gray smoke floating through the Fallujah evening sky. That, the aftermath of a strike by U.S. Marine helicopters on insurgent positions earlier this afternoon.

The firefight began about three hours ago now. A U.S. Marine sniper team had tried to move into position around Fallujah train station. That's the building on the left of your screen. The sniper team moved in there, because those were recent days, Iraqi insurgents, according to a Marine commander, had been taking positions in and around the train station, trying to set up mortar positions from which they intended, it seems, to attack Marine positions.

The U.S. sniper team that went into the train station to try and take out those insurgent positions today was, in fact, detected by insurgents. Insurgents appeared to have been holed up in buildings on the right hand side of the main road we see. Insurgents opened fire on the U.S. snipers with rocket-propelled grenades, U.S. commanders tell us.

The sniper team then had to be extracted in heavily armored Humvee vehicles by colleagues. And once they were taken to safety, Marines called in two helicopters. One, we're told, a U.S. Marine Cobra attack helicopter. The other, a Marine Huey gunship.

And they went into action, and we saw them pounding at least three buildings with machine gunfire and also with rockets and missiles in the course of about an hour and a half, and many missiles and rockets pounding those buildings, flames from three areas and then plumes of smoke going up.

Now if we look right now, a lot farther to the east of our position, we can see a heavy mushroom of black smoke going up there. That, in fact, we hear from an afternoon press briefing by General Kimmitt, the coalition military spokesman in Baghdad this afternoon, seems to be the result of another combat between coalition forces and insurgents on the northeastern edge of Fallujah.

As I say, we're on the northwestern edge. We've seen heavy firefights here involving Marine helicopters and insurgents. And that plume of smoke we've just seen go up way in the distance there seems to be the result of another -- a separate combat involving a different Marine unit with insurgents on the northeast side of Fallujah.

Certainly, those in the position where we are now, no reports of either coalition casualties or any reports of insurgent casualties on the ground. That perhaps not surprising, since the Marines, in recent days, have not been too far away from their bases and certainly aren't venturing as far as the buildings that were pounded during this afternoon's firefight to count any insurgent casualties there.

The small Marine base where we're standing also came under -- or a section of it came under rocket-propelled grenade fire. We heard those rounds impacting somewhat short of the base. We also heard insurgent gunfire firing overhead.

For that reason, two of those Marine helicopters did return to the area but were flying at heights of probably more than 1,000 feet to try and avoid any insurgent gunfire from the ground.

Now this is the third substantial gunfight in this northwestern sector of Fallujah in as many days. Yesterday, we saw AC-130 Spectre gunships in action, attacking suspected insurgent weapon caches somewhat south, about a kilometer south of our position.

And on Monday, a Marine platoon from the unit we are embedded with at this point went in to battle against insurgent fighters. One Marine died in that fighting and at least nine others were wounded.

All this fighting, though, comes amid a supposed ceasefire, a ceasefire that was agreed a little over two weeks ago between Fallujah's civic and religious leaders and coalitional authority. The deal there supposedly was that the coalition forces wouldn't attack insurgents, as long as the insurgents began to hand over their weapons and also surrender any foreign fighters. Coalitional authorities believe that foreign fighters linked to al Qaeda may be fighting alongside Iraqi insurgents, to oppose the coalition occupation of Iraq.

But certainly, in the course of two weeks, we haven't seen any of those weapons being handed over. Any weapons that have been handed over are, in the words of one Marine general, junk. And he says that there's been no good faith on the part of insurgents for that weapons handover.

As I say, live pictures there, in the evening sky in Fallujah, great plumes of smoke. That, the aftermath of a firefight between coalition force and insurgent units this afternoon here in the northwestern section of Fallujah.

This is Karl Penhaul reporting. And on the camera, John Templeton, the U.S. networks pool on the northwest edge of Fallujah, Iraq.

KAGAN: We've been listening in to U.S. pool reporter Karl Penhaul. Because of the dangerous situation in Iraq, the U.S. networks have pulled together their resources to have one correspondent and one photographer to bring the story to us here in the U.S.

Meanwhile, our Jane Arraf is standing by in Najaf, another major hot spot in Iraq, where the standoff between U.S. forces and the militia of radical Muslim cleric Moqtada al-Sadr. With the latest on that, let's bring in Jane.

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, it's clear that U.S. forces are settling in for the long haul here.

We are at this base in the desert near Najaf. A battalion of engineers, an engineering unit from Missouri is actually setting up.

And U.S. forces are also in essentially in what is the middle of Najaf, but well away from the holy city. They are taking what they say is a very measured approach.

They are not going into the holy city. They don't want to inflame the population, but they are making clear that they are here. They have a presence. And they are going to be effective if they have to be.

Now, this was demonstrated, according to military officials here, by a major engagement two nights ago in which dozens of members of the Mehdi militia were killed.

They found it was those rocket-propelled grenades and anti- aircraft guns, that they say had been used to fire possibly at coalition aircraft.

And following that, they have set up a checkpoint, a major checkpoint, on a bridge on the east side of the river, leading to Kupa (ph) and Najaf to demonstrate their presence here. At the same time, though, they are doing things like rebuilding the infrastructure, setting up projects, and waiting to see if there can be a political solution to this.

Again, a very measured approach, they say, to try to avoid violence in this holy Shia city -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And, Jane, what about reports we're getting out of Najaf that they're actually locals there and local leaders upset with Moqtada al-Sadr's militia and running them out of town? Is the U.S. military having support from locals?

ARRAF: It seems apparent that they would be upset. Essentially, what's been going on, the stranglehold of Moqtada al-Sadr's militia on the city, has basically strangled the economy, as well.

We have to remember that this is one of the major pilgrimage sites for Shias all over the world. And it normally would be crowded with pilgrims. Instead, Daryn, there are shops closed, schools closed, and ongoing violence.

As we flew by helicopter into here, there was a mortar attack at a base near here. At another base, where there's a handful, still, of civilian coalition officials, protected now by U.S. troops who have moved in to replace Spanish troops who have departed, another mortar attack. And that's a daily occurrence.

Daryn, there does appear to be some anger at Najaf at Moqtada al- Sadr, this radical Shia leader who has essentially taken control of that city -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Jane Arraf, with the latest from Najaf. Thank you for that, Jane.

Now let's go back to the Pentagon. We were about to talk with our Barbara Starr when we started to hear from Karl Penhaul. So let's bring Barbara back in -- Barbara.

STARR: Well, Daryn, even though these pictures seem to show, of course, this heavy renewed fighting across Fallujah for the last several days, from a policy, from a strategy point of view, the Bush administration officials here at the Pentagon, saying there is no change in their strategy.

That they -- excuse me, that they are going to stick with the notion of trying to make this ceasefire -- tenuous though it appears, they are going to try and make it work.

They're going to continue to talk to city officials in Fallujah. They know that they're not getting the heavy weapons turnover from the insurgents. They do hope to still start those joint patrols with the Marines and the Iraqi security forces.

But as the hours go on, it does become a very tough proposition, as the defensive actions by the U.S. Marines continue against the insurgents. Still, today, earlier in Baghdad, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt said they are holding to their current policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: I can confirm that it is certainly the intention of the coalition forces that the ceasefire continues.

What you're seeing today is a series of defensive responses. When we get shot at, we will respond. We will not sit there and take fire, even though there is a ceasefire ongoing. That is inconsistent with what we stand for. That is inconsistent with the inherent right of self-defense.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: But, Daryn, there's something much more fundamental going on here, and that is the long-term situation in Iraq.

General John Abizaid, head of the U.S. Central Command, is telling Bush administration officials, reminding them that his view is the military cannot be the solution in Iraq, cannot be the solution in Fallujah.

General Abizaid's view is that there must be a political solution, rebuilding, reconstruction, a political solution of Iraqi sovereignty, Iraqis standing up and taking a role in the forward movement of their country.

Officials telling us that, if there was to be a decision for an all-out military assault into Fallujah, that would be a clear sign that other options have failed. They are prepared, if they have to do it, but clearly, it is not something they want to do at this point -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Well, even in the briefing earlier, the last hour, Barbara, we heard General Kimmitt talk about that they're realizing there is more than a military solution and military forces at work in Fallujah.

Their frustration -- when these other leaders of the community come forward, there's not the sense that they truly have the power and speak for all the people in Fallujah. No turnover of weapons and no turnover of insurgents.

STARR: You know, that's really been the problem with these negotiations for the last couple of weeks.

There are leaders in Fallujah, clearly, who want to see a return to peace and control in the city. But can those leaders if Fallujah deliver the insurgents? Clearly not. Clearly that has not worked.

But what the military, then, is reminding the political leaders in the Bush administration of, is if there is a military assault into the city, certainly the U.S. military could take control of Fallujah, but what would that accomplish? Can they really take control of the insurgent situation? That's a very different proposition.

General Abizaid warning, again, that any assault into the city might only inflame the insurgency across Iraq even more, cause further problems. So it's a very delicate matter.

KAGAN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you for that. We'll be back with you. We will not go far from the situation, especially in Fallujah, and the live pictures and the reports from there.

Right now, though, it's just about 13 minutes past the hour. We do want to get some other news in.

And the next story coming from the Supreme Court. That's where justices are hearing a pair of cases this morning that test the president's powers during the war on terror.

Jose Padilla and Yasser Hamdi are both American citizens, but the Bush administration labels them as enemy combatants. They're being held at a military brig without the right to pursue their cases in the court. They only recently were able to see a lawyer.

The justices must decide whether the president's wartime powers are stepping on the Constitution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUTH WEDGWOOD, INTERNATIONAL LAW EXPERT: Shortly after the September 11 attacks, the Congress authorized the president, in plain words, to use force against any nation, organization or person he determines necessary.

THOMAS GOLDSTEIN, SUPREME COURT ANALYST: It's finally time for the basic questions about the scope of the president's power to hold people, without the approval of the courts, are really going to be confronted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: The court is expected to release audio recordings of the arguments in this hour. When we get portions of them, you will hear them right along with us.

For now, though, let's check in with Kendall Coffey, a former federal prosecutor and a frequent CNN contributor on legal issues, joining us from Miami this morning.

Kendall, good morning.

KENDALL COFFEY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: Looks like we have a battle here between being enemy combatant and U.S. citizen. Which one overrides?

COFFEY: Yes, and this is absolutely historic. There are so many high profile cases that have been in the news lately involving celebrities ranging from Martha Stewart to Michael Jackson, but this case may be the most important of its kind in the last 60 years.

It really is the ultimate test between the concerns about national security and individual liberty. And it also tests in a way that's very rarely been seen in our history, the checks and balances of our government.

The power of the executive, not only to conduct, for example, military operations overseas -- that's traditional, that's accepted. But here, the executive is telling the judiciary, "You have nothing to say" about a traditional judicial role, that is to say, the rights and liberties of U.S. citizens in the U.S. country, and whether or not they have to remain effectively behind bars in a prison.

KAGAN: And so Kendall, the lawyers on behalf of these men have filed habeas corpus appeals. How do those work?

COFFEY: Well, what that means is that they are challenging the right of the executive government. That is what habeas corpus means, to continue the imprisonment of these two individuals.

And what the justices of the United States Supreme Court have to decide is, in this unprecedented war of terrorism, does the president's power, military authority, as commander in chief, allow him to designate even U.S. citizens as so-called U.S. enemy or illegal combatants, and hold them, effect, in a military custody, as opposed to behind bars in the usual civil sense of a criminal charged with a crime who, of course, would have the usual rights to a trial by jury, rights to lawyer, Miranda rights and other basic liberties.

KAGAN: These two men, Jose Padilla and Yasser Hamdi, very different stories. One accused of -- accused and yet not charged with trying to deploy a dirty bomb. Yasser Hamdi came through Guantanamo Bay.

Their lives, their futures, at stake. But the bigger picture, how can this affect the war on terror and what the Justice Department is allowed to do?

COFFEY: Well, Daryn, you make a very important point, about the fact that these two cases are different.

Yasser Hamdi was captured as basically an enemy soldier on a foreign battlefield in the course of a military operation. That is an area, where I think the president as our commander in chief is going to get a lot of deference.

But Jose Padilla is a much more traditional scenario of a criminal, even though the allegations involve terrorism. He's a U.S. citizen, born in Brooklyn, converted to the Islamic faith, actually here in south Florida, and became involved in a plot, in a conspiracy, with al Qaeda, it is alleged, in a fashion that traditionally we would have charged in a U.S. criminal case.

So he in many ways, is the ultimate test of the president's powers in the war on terrorism and the collision between the interests of national security and the rights of the individual under our Constitution.

KAGAN: So even though both men's cases are being heard at the same time, perhaps very different outcomes, and not to get them too lumped together. We'll be watching it.

COFFEY: Could be two different outcomes, Daryn, you're right.

KAGAN: Kendall Coffey from south Florida. Thank you, Kendall.

COFFEY: Thank you.

KAGAN: Here in Georgia, an almost unimaginable crime. A young girl murdered. What makes this one even more shocking is who police say is now responsible. That story is up next.

Also, Jayson Williams plays a new kind of game, the waiting game. The verdict watch is ahead.

CNN LIVE TODAY will be back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK REPORT)

KAGAN: Jurors in the Jayson Williams manslaughter trial resume deliberations today with a read-back of testimony from several witnesses. The jury specifically requested testimony on who allegedly told witnesses to lie to police.

Williams is on trial for the shotgun death of limousine driver Christoph (ph) Christofi at Williams' home in New Jersey. Prosecutors say Williams acted recklessly. The defense says the shooting was a tragic accident.

In the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case, day three of a pretrial evidentiary hearing. Among other things, the defense is seeking to have Bryant's statements to police tossed out because he had not been yet advised of his rights.

The court warns that more hearings may be needed next month, which means a trial might not take place before August.

Police are holding a 12-year-old boy today, accused in a crime that has shocked the metro Atlanta area.

The story now from CNN's Eric Philips.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIC PHILIPS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Yellow police tape surrounds the area where the body of 8-year-old Amy Michelle Yates was found. A small shrine, growing nearby in her memory.

TIM YATES, VICTIM'S UNCLE: A piece of me is gone. And it can't be returned.

PHILIPS: What's worse for family and friends, news of who authorities believe killed Amy.

SHERIFF TERRY LANGLEY, CARROLL COUNTY, GEORGIA: We are at this time charging a local 12-year-old male with her murder.

PHILIPS: The two youngsters lived only doors apart at the Twin Oaks Mobile Home Park here in Carrollton, Georgia. Investigators allege the 12-year-old strangled Amy with his bare hands.

LANGLEY: We believe that he is responsible for murdering her, and we believe he acted alone at this point.

PHILIPS: Police say Amy left home on her bike around 5 on Monday afternoon. She was going to a friend's house in the same trailer park but never showed up.

Soon, her bike was spotted. But it would be hours before authorities would find her body in nearby woods. Jean Gossek (ph) says the 8-year-old was heading to her house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just not right. It just hurts. It shouldn't have happened.

PHILIPS: the 12-year-old is being held in a local youth detention center.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To me, in my eyes, he was still a child. I mean, I never would have thought that anything like this could have happened.

PHILIPS: Counselors were on hand at Amy's elementary school to try and make sense of all this for her classmates, but even adults are having difficulty coming to terms with that happened.

YATES: This is -- this is the most tragic loss of -- I've ever have had to endure. It just doesn't make any sense.

PHILIPS: Eric Philips, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: And we are going to get back to international news, to what is happening in Fallujah, Iraq, coming up.

Also, how that's playing out politically. What does John Kerry have to say about the war in Iraq. And some harsh words from the floor of the U.S. Senate from Senator McCain, on criticism of how the president is handling the war effort.

All that is just ahead when CNN LIVE TODAY continues.

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