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American Morning
Fight for Iraq; Enemy Combatants
Aired April 29, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. It is just about half past the hour on this Americans. We're going right back to the discussion about Fallujah in just a few moments. Retired General Don Sheppard will join us, taking a look at the Marines, who potentially could be pulling out of that city. Is this a victory for the insurgents? Or can Iraqi forces really continue the fight there? Lots of questions actually out of this breaking news out of Fallujah this morning.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We'll get to that in a second. On a much lighter note today, "90-Second Pop" is coming your way in a moment. Barbara Walters and ABC's "20/20" now in the middle of a bit of a controversy this week. For a while, it looked like they had turned a baby adoption into a reality show, or some viewers thought anyway based on the promotions that were airing. We'll talk about that...
O'BRIEN: That was somewhat a little offensive to some people.
HEMMER: Yes, they came out, ABC has tried to clarify the matter. So, we'll see where we go from here. That and some other intriguing topics -- Prince...
O'BRIEN: As always.
HEMMER: "90-Second Pop" in a moment.
O'BRIEN: All right, top stories though first.
U.S. troops are coming under fire in Iraq. A total of 10 U.S. soldiers have been killed in a string of attacks today. Eight were killed in a car bomb attack in Mahmoudiya, which is south of Baghdad. Four others were hurt in that same attack. The other two U.S. soldiers were killed in two separate incidents in the Baghdad area.
A recent survey shows what Iraqis are conflicted about in the war and its impact. According to a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll, nearly half of Iraqis polled said the war had done more harm than good, but 61 percent said the ouster of Saddam Hussein had made the hardships worthwhile. Nearly all of the interviews for this survey were conducted before April 9. That, of course, is before the recent cycle of violence began in Fallujah.
More speculation about just who leaked the name of a CIA operative to columnist Robert Novak. In a new book, former Ambassador Joe Wilson reportedly points the finger at several people, including Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Wilson claims his wife's name was leaked after he publicly criticized the war in Iraq. "The Politics of Truth" -- that's the name of the book -- is set for release tomorrow.
NBA star Kobe Bryant expected to enter a formal plea next month in the sexual assault case against him. A May 10 date was set yesterday in Eagle, Colorado. Under Colorado law, once a defendant in a sexual assault case enters a plea, the trial must be held within six months.
And the American Diabetes Association has changed criteria for determining just who has pre-diabetes. Under the new guidelines, a person would be considered pre-diabetic if their blood sugar count is above 100 milligrams. Forty-one million Americans are now in that high-risk pre-diabetes category, and that is double the previous figures.
HEMMER: And if that's the case, it allows people to get a heads up earlier.
O'BRIEN: One would hope so.
HEMMER: The better for it, yes.
O'BRIEN: Those numbers for diabetes, it's a huge problem now.
HEMMER: Yes, substantial.
(WEATHER BREAK)
HEMMER: Back to Iraq now and Fallujah. Word already today of a tentative deal being struck between the U.S. Marines and four Iraqi generals inside of that town. That deal could result in a transfer of power in the city from the Marines to a new Iraqi army.
Retired Air Force Major General, CNN military analyst, Don Sheppard here to talk about it.
Don -- good morning to you.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: What do you make of this deal if indeed it sticks the way we've been described this morning?
SHEPPERD: Well, Bill, we're at the early hours of this. But this is the first good news, really good news to come out of Iraq in a long time, and clearly the first good news to come out of Fallujah. This is extremely important. It means for the first time Iraqi former military -- in this case, it appears, former Baathists -- have stepped forward to take a leadership role. And if we can find a diplomatic solution out of Fallujah, as opposed to a shooting solution, everybody is going to gain, Bill.
HEMMER: Tony Perry from the "L.A. Times" was with us a few moments ago. He said apparently the overwhelming force convinced the generals to come forward. That tells you what, based on what the Marines executed there?
SHEPPERD: Yes. Well, you can draw any conclusions you want from this. And both sides will draw their own conclusions. The Marines have basically said that we are going to return fire. We're going to put a cease-fire in effect, but we're going to return fire when we're fired upon. And when we locate insurgents, which they've done in various sections of the city, we are basically going to kill them. We're going to take them out. That's what's been done.
Now, whether or not that's what caused this agreement or not is hard to say. But the important thing is that evidently there's an agreement that says the Iraqis themselves will take over Fallujah. The Marines will withdraw from Fallujah, and the Iraqis will prevent future attacks and restore order and disarm the insurgents. If all of that takes place, this is a major, huge step, a positive step toward the United States getting out of Iraq and the Iraqis taking over responsibility.
HEMMER: And we are using this with a bit of caution, because there are clearly numerous questions that do not have answers at this point. But you mentioned the generals, former Baath Party members. Does this focus the spotlight back on the policy that was put in Iraq at the end of the war a year ago, releasing the members of the Baath Party, dismissing the military altogether? And if so, if this works, what conclusions would you draw from the possibility that four members of the Baath Party come forward and make peace with the coalition?
SHEPPERD: Well, first of all, the issue of whether or not it was a mistake to disband the Iraqi army, my opinion all along has been that it was a terrible mistake to do that, because you produced widespread unemployment and you could very clearly have vetted the leaders that you wanted out of the army and still allow the Iraqis to provide their own security. So that, in my opinion, was a mistake. Although, keeping the army, which is mainly a conscript army, together was not necessarily an easy deal. I just think it was a mistake.
Again, what Iraq needs is some George Washingtons, some Thomas Jeffersons, some Ben Franklins. Hopefully, this will be the first step in pursuing and establishing that.
And the other thing is very clear. The Sunnis, who are the big losers in this power struggle, who have held power for the better part of, certainly 35 years, maybe 80 years, they've lost power. They have to have a stake in the new Iraq -- a major stake. And hopefully, this is the beginning of all of that happening before the turnover of power on 30 June. We'll just have to wait and see, but it's promising.
HEMMER: Something tells me there's psychology 101 involved in here somewhere.
SHEPPERD: Absolutely.
HEMMER: Thank you, Don. Major General Don Shepperd in D.C. As always, great to talk with you.
SHEPPERD: Pleasure. HEMMER: Here's Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Millions of people watch Al-Jazeera every day. But is the Arab news channel fair? Secretary of State Colin Powell says he doesn't think so. In fact, on Tuesday, he told the government of Qatar, where the news channel is based, that it fuels -- the coverage, rather, fuels hatred of the United States. Hafez al-Mirazi, the Washington bureau chief of Al-Jazeera television, spoke with CNN, and then responded to some of the secretary's comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAFEZ AL-MIRAZI, AL-JAZEERA BUREAU CHIEF: When Al-Jazeera puts footage of civilian casualties in Fallujah and the rest of Iraq, I don't think that anybody is denying the authenticity of this footage of civilian casualty. I don't even see CNN carrying the same kind footage of civilian casualty. But we, in many chances and always on daily basis, we make sure that we will get the U.S. military point of view, the U.S. point of view. General Kimmitt, Ambassador Paul Bremer has been on Al-Jazeera just less than two days ago, and we are sure open to any kind of correction. If the U.S. said, no, this is not true, we'd immediately put a U.S. spokesman on air to say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The White House has criticized Al-Jazeera's coverage before, but it's never made such a public issue of the channel with the government of Qatar.
HEMMER: The Supreme Court yesterday heard arguments about the government's right to imprison U.S. citizens known as enemy combatants without a trial. At issue here is whether or not the president is overstepping his authority in the current war on terror.
Our own justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, on that story today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The justices have been asked to decide whether the president exceeded his powers in the war on terror. Can he deny rights to two U.S. citizens, Jose Padilla and Yaser Hamdi, whom he declared enemy combatants.
Padilla, detained at Chicago's O'Hare Airport, accused of plotting to set off a radioactive dirty bomb, and Hamdi, captured fighting U.S. forces in Afghanistan. Both have never been charged, are locked up indefinitely at a naval brig in South Carolina and, until recently, denied access to lawyers.
JENNY MARTINEZ, JOSE PADILLA'S ATTORNEY: I think the important thing is that whatever Mr. Padilla did, this is still America. He's entitled to be charged with a crime and to have his day in court.
ARENA: But the Bush administration argues the president has broad powers as commander in chief, backed up by a congressional resolution passed just after the September 11 hijackings. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To read it, to deny the government the authority, to detain a latter-day citizen version of Mohamed Atta is to simply ignore the will of Congress.
ARENA: Even conservative Justice Scalia was skeptical.
ANTONIN SCALIA, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: It doesn't say you can do whatever it takes to win the war.
ARENA: The government says it's had to keep Hamdi and Padilla in custody for about two years to interrogate them and to prevent future attacks.
Justice O'Connor questioned the government's claim they could be held for as long as the war on terror lasts.
SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Have we ever had a situation like this where presumably this status, war-like status, could last for 25 years, 50 years, whatever it is?
ARENA (on camera): Rulings are expected in late June -- the most important decisions on presidential powers since World War II.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Also in this last week, the court heard a similar case regarding citizens from other countries held at Gitmo. That ruling also expected by summer.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, what could be a way out of the explosive situation in Fallujah. We've got the latest on that plan to transfer power to the new Iraqi army.
HEMMER: Also, less than two hours away, a critical day for the Bush administration. The president and the vice president answering questions on 9/11.
O'BRIEN: Plus, veteran newswoman Barbara Walters is going gaga over an entirely different topic. Our "90-Second Pop" panel will have all of the details. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Jack's got the question of the day this morning. Hello.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello there.
A growing number of Iraqis and Americans want U.S. troops out of Iraq now. Fifty-seven percent of Iraqis say that U.S. troops should leave immediately, according to a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll that was taken before the recent standoff in Fallujah developed. And a "New York Times"/CBS News Poll shows 46 percent of Americans say troops should leave Iraq as soon as possible.
So, the question this morning is: When is the right time for U.S. troops to leave Iraq? We're getting a lot of mail.
From Brad in Moretown, Vermont we hear this: "We're in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. While we never should have invaded Iraq in the first place, now that we're there, we should establish some kind of stable government and security force before we leave."
Darlene in Raleigh, North Carolina: "I used to think we should stay and stabilize things in Iraq, but now I say get out. They don't want us there, so get out."
Bob in Knoxville, Tennessee: "Pull out of Iraq now. There's never going to be a democracy there. That's a Republican dream. The first free election in Iraq will be the last free election there. Some ayatollah will be elected and the rein of theocratic terror will begin all over again."
And Rich in Youngstown, Ohio: "Yesterday was 700 lives too late."
AM@CNN.com.
O'BRIEN: I'm sure there are lots of people agree with Rich in Youngstown, Ohio.
HEMMER: I think this situation in Fallujah is going to tell us an awful lot about what they can and cannot do in the near term.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
HEMMER: If these generals are true to their word, and if they can truly get some sort of control over what's happening in Fallujah, it may go a long way as to what's happening in these other areas.
O'BRIEN: But there are some analysts who say that actually the insurgents have to be killed or captured. And what it seems like -- and obviously it's early on -- what the generals are saying is that they'd disarm the insurgents. No one is saying they'd go in there and take out insurgents, which might lead you just to postponing a big problem, you know, at the same time.
HEMMER: One thing Tony Perry said when we talked to him in Fallujah earlier today, he said these generals can tell the difference between an accent in Baghdad and an accent from Damascus. And these generals who live in that town know who the insurgents are, who they can work with and who they cannot. If that's the case, perhaps there's a silver lining in that.
O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
CAFFERTY: I'll believe it when I see if it's true.
O'BRIEN: I'm voting with Jack on this one. Still to come this morning, once known for his wild on-stage antics, is Prince's "Purple Rain" becoming a little more tame? Our "90-Second Pop" panel is going to weigh in on that just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: He sounds good and looks good, doesn't he? Welcome back, everybody. It's time for a little slice of life that we like to call "90-Second Pop". Joining us this morning, Sarah Bernard. She's "New York" magazine's contributing editor. Also humorist Andy Borowitz. He has written what we like to call the definitive work on "Governor Arnold." And Jessica Shaw from "Entertainment Weekly" joins us.
Nice to see you, Jessica. Welcome, everybody. Let's get right into it. Before we get to Prince, who just looks fantastic and sounds great.
SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: What's his secret? What's his beauty secret?
O'BRIEN: You're scaring me. Let's talk about this "20/20" show. They've got a show called "Be My Baby." It airs on Friday. Lots of controversy.
BERNARD: There's a bit of a controversy about it. Well, the show is actually about five couples vying for the son of a 16-year-old girl from Ohio. Now, the promo that's been airing about it is posing that the show is kind of like a competition, like a reality show. And...
O'BRIEN: I'm going to stop you there so we can watch the promo.
BERNARD: Oh, OK.
O'BRIEN: So everyone can get a sense of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: An emotional television event. One teenage mother making the most important decision of her young life: choosing adoptive parents for her baby from these five couples. It's an adoption unlike any you've ever seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: It's like they made it a reality show.
ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: You know, at least they are not exploiting it, though.
O'BRIEN: Right.
BERNARD: Yes, that's right.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNARD: There are some topics that probably should not be reality show driven. I mean, you know...
O'BRIEN: But it's not a reality show.
BERNARD: No, I don't think it's actually set up like contestant No. 1, 2, 3, but it's such an emotional, intense process. And the fact that they are sort of following people as their, you know, fingers are crossed hoping to get this baby, it's a little upsetting. I mean...
JESSICA SHAW, "ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY": But they want -- I mean, that's what the promo looked like. They want to sell it like it is a reality show. I mean, I was watching it, and I was thinking, my god, they're going to like be eating worms or fighting each other and climbing ropes...
O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to win the baby at the end.
SHAW: Jeff Probst (ph) was going to show up any second.
BERNARD: I think it might be the way that they cut the promo, and hopefully that on Friday it's more of a journalistic piece on open adoption. But we shall see. I mean, "The Swan" was deep, but we don't really want to...
(CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: I was wondering, though, you know, when this kid gets adopted and then grows up and the parents are some day showing the photo album, how do they explain who Barbara Walters is? That's what I want to know. That can be traumatic.
SHAW: She'll still be on somewhere.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about "American Idol." There was Elton John claiming racism when Jennifer Hudson was ousted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
O'BRIEN: So, this week it was John Stevens.
SHAW: Who couldn't be more white.
O'BRIEN: Well, then, it's not racist?
SHAW: So, I don't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Elton's word, right . Well, much to the elation of Simon Cowell, John Stevens got voted off this week.
O'BRIEN: Oh, is he bad?
SHAW: Well, he wasn't so good with the singing. O'BRIEN: OK.
SHAW: Which doesn't help.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: He was no singer. That's a problem.
SHAW: Right. Last week, Jennifer Hudson got voted off, and that just caused a huge scandal in the "Idol" world.
O'BRIEN: Huge ratings -- I mean, or voting, I should say. They said some massive number of people actually voted.
BOROWITZ: You know, the positive thing is that there's consolation prize. John gets a shot at adopting a baby as a consolation prize.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNARD: I was worried about Fantasia, because she is my favorite and she had dedicated her song to Jennifer.
O'BRIEN: What a great name.
(CROSSTALK)
SHAW: Yes, you know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a little bit too much pandering, like, I want Jennifer.
BERNARD: That's true. I thought there was going to be a backlash (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
O'BRIEN: Too much pandering on "American Idol?" I'm appalled.
BERNARD: Don't you think she should win for her name alone?
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
BOROWITZ: Fantasia?
BERNARD: Yes.
O'BRIEN: As a gal named Soledad, Fantasia, I'm loving it.
MTV, MTV2, BET, VH1, VH1 Classic all carried Prince. Let's roll some Prince just for (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BOROWITZ: Oh, all right, why not?
O'BRIEN: There we go.
I love Prince, and there was a time when you really couldn't listen to his albums with your parents in the room because there's, like, honestly, simulated sex and lots of stuff like that that's hard to explain to your parents. BERNARD: This is the new Prince.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BOROWITZ: I actually think the FCC should now fine Prince for not having enough sex. I think there's like...
O'BRIEN: Was it boring?
BOROWITZ: Well, no. You know, I mean, it was just he was everywhere last night. It was like MTV, VH1, I think I saw it on the Food Network. It was like a Bush campaign ad.
O'BRIEN: C-SPAN.
BOROWITZ: Yes, it was everywhere.
SHAWA: I'm hoping this opens it up for other '80s artists like Elle DeBarge (ph).
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: Hey, I love Elle DeBarge (ph).
SHAW: Who doesn't, honey? I mean...
BOROWITZ: Actually Goo-Goo (ph), I just want to put in a little word for them.
BERNARD: Well, what's great about him is that hopefully a whole new generation. We were just saying that maybe Andy's daughter is going to get into Prince.
BOROWITZ: My daughter (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
O'BRIEN: Really?
BOROWITZ: Yes.
O'BRIEN: How funny.
BERNARD: But, you know, he's a Jehovah's Witness now.
BOROWITZ: Right. He came to my door last night. I was shocked by that.
BERNARD: So, he's clean up his act, and he's rewriting some of his lyrics to...
SHAW: A lot of the scandalous lyrics, a lot of the sex lyrics.
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: Yes, they've got to go.
BERNARD: Out of there. BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: Huh, interesting. We have time to talk about "People's" 50 most beautiful people. I didn't make the list this year, so...
BOROWITZ: Oh, I forgot about you, Soledad.
BERNARD: That's terrible.
BOROWITZ: I really feel, you know, for the 10th year in a row, Jack Cafferty was robbed. I really do feel that. I really do.
O'BRIEN: On behalf of AMERICAN MORNING, we are shocked and outraged.
BERNARD: We want a recount.
BOROWITZ: Right.
BOROWITZ: But this is a very influential thing.
O'BRIEN: Who is on the cover of this magazine?
BERNARD: Jennifer Aniston.
SHAW: Jennifer Aniston.
BOROWITZ: Right.
SHAW: You know, they really went out on the limb.
BOROWITZ: Thinking outside the box.
SHAW: Catherine Zeta-Jones, Jennifer Aniston, I think Jude Law. I mean, who thinks he's beautiful?
BERNARD: I think they should have done the worst looking, because that's always more fun, the worst dressed and worst looking.
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: You scare me so much. The worst, can you imagine? Oh, I made "People" magazine's 50 ugliest.
BERNARD: That would be really interesting to talk about.
BOROWITZ: This issue is very important to careers. I mean, not so much the people, but the plastic surgeons who worked on these people. It's very, very important.
SHAW: That's true.
BERNARD: True, because people take the issue in and they say, I want to look like this. SHAW: Exactly.
BOROWITZ: I want to look like that. Right.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BOROWITZ: After I'm adopted by Barbara Walters, I want that face.
O'BRIEN: She's not doing the adoption.
BOROWITZ: Oh, perhaps I've distorted the facts somewhat.
O'BRIEN: Oh, whatever. Sarah and Andy and Jessica, thanks for being with us. Thanks for being with us this morning. Nice to have you guys, as always -- Bill.
HEMMER: I'm going with Jack, too, Andy. Your vote is well cast.
In a moment, the president and the vice president are getting ready for that 9/11 Commission; in fact, 90 minutes away from that. The history and the controversy for today's meeting in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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Aired April 29, 2004 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. It is just about half past the hour on this Americans. We're going right back to the discussion about Fallujah in just a few moments. Retired General Don Sheppard will join us, taking a look at the Marines, who potentially could be pulling out of that city. Is this a victory for the insurgents? Or can Iraqi forces really continue the fight there? Lots of questions actually out of this breaking news out of Fallujah this morning.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We'll get to that in a second. On a much lighter note today, "90-Second Pop" is coming your way in a moment. Barbara Walters and ABC's "20/20" now in the middle of a bit of a controversy this week. For a while, it looked like they had turned a baby adoption into a reality show, or some viewers thought anyway based on the promotions that were airing. We'll talk about that...
O'BRIEN: That was somewhat a little offensive to some people.
HEMMER: Yes, they came out, ABC has tried to clarify the matter. So, we'll see where we go from here. That and some other intriguing topics -- Prince...
O'BRIEN: As always.
HEMMER: "90-Second Pop" in a moment.
O'BRIEN: All right, top stories though first.
U.S. troops are coming under fire in Iraq. A total of 10 U.S. soldiers have been killed in a string of attacks today. Eight were killed in a car bomb attack in Mahmoudiya, which is south of Baghdad. Four others were hurt in that same attack. The other two U.S. soldiers were killed in two separate incidents in the Baghdad area.
A recent survey shows what Iraqis are conflicted about in the war and its impact. According to a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll, nearly half of Iraqis polled said the war had done more harm than good, but 61 percent said the ouster of Saddam Hussein had made the hardships worthwhile. Nearly all of the interviews for this survey were conducted before April 9. That, of course, is before the recent cycle of violence began in Fallujah.
More speculation about just who leaked the name of a CIA operative to columnist Robert Novak. In a new book, former Ambassador Joe Wilson reportedly points the finger at several people, including Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby. Wilson claims his wife's name was leaked after he publicly criticized the war in Iraq. "The Politics of Truth" -- that's the name of the book -- is set for release tomorrow.
NBA star Kobe Bryant expected to enter a formal plea next month in the sexual assault case against him. A May 10 date was set yesterday in Eagle, Colorado. Under Colorado law, once a defendant in a sexual assault case enters a plea, the trial must be held within six months.
And the American Diabetes Association has changed criteria for determining just who has pre-diabetes. Under the new guidelines, a person would be considered pre-diabetic if their blood sugar count is above 100 milligrams. Forty-one million Americans are now in that high-risk pre-diabetes category, and that is double the previous figures.
HEMMER: And if that's the case, it allows people to get a heads up earlier.
O'BRIEN: One would hope so.
HEMMER: The better for it, yes.
O'BRIEN: Those numbers for diabetes, it's a huge problem now.
HEMMER: Yes, substantial.
(WEATHER BREAK)
HEMMER: Back to Iraq now and Fallujah. Word already today of a tentative deal being struck between the U.S. Marines and four Iraqi generals inside of that town. That deal could result in a transfer of power in the city from the Marines to a new Iraqi army.
Retired Air Force Major General, CNN military analyst, Don Sheppard here to talk about it.
Don -- good morning to you.
MAJ. GEN. DON SHEPPERD (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Good morning, Bill.
HEMMER: What do you make of this deal if indeed it sticks the way we've been described this morning?
SHEPPERD: Well, Bill, we're at the early hours of this. But this is the first good news, really good news to come out of Iraq in a long time, and clearly the first good news to come out of Fallujah. This is extremely important. It means for the first time Iraqi former military -- in this case, it appears, former Baathists -- have stepped forward to take a leadership role. And if we can find a diplomatic solution out of Fallujah, as opposed to a shooting solution, everybody is going to gain, Bill.
HEMMER: Tony Perry from the "L.A. Times" was with us a few moments ago. He said apparently the overwhelming force convinced the generals to come forward. That tells you what, based on what the Marines executed there?
SHEPPERD: Yes. Well, you can draw any conclusions you want from this. And both sides will draw their own conclusions. The Marines have basically said that we are going to return fire. We're going to put a cease-fire in effect, but we're going to return fire when we're fired upon. And when we locate insurgents, which they've done in various sections of the city, we are basically going to kill them. We're going to take them out. That's what's been done.
Now, whether or not that's what caused this agreement or not is hard to say. But the important thing is that evidently there's an agreement that says the Iraqis themselves will take over Fallujah. The Marines will withdraw from Fallujah, and the Iraqis will prevent future attacks and restore order and disarm the insurgents. If all of that takes place, this is a major, huge step, a positive step toward the United States getting out of Iraq and the Iraqis taking over responsibility.
HEMMER: And we are using this with a bit of caution, because there are clearly numerous questions that do not have answers at this point. But you mentioned the generals, former Baath Party members. Does this focus the spotlight back on the policy that was put in Iraq at the end of the war a year ago, releasing the members of the Baath Party, dismissing the military altogether? And if so, if this works, what conclusions would you draw from the possibility that four members of the Baath Party come forward and make peace with the coalition?
SHEPPERD: Well, first of all, the issue of whether or not it was a mistake to disband the Iraqi army, my opinion all along has been that it was a terrible mistake to do that, because you produced widespread unemployment and you could very clearly have vetted the leaders that you wanted out of the army and still allow the Iraqis to provide their own security. So that, in my opinion, was a mistake. Although, keeping the army, which is mainly a conscript army, together was not necessarily an easy deal. I just think it was a mistake.
Again, what Iraq needs is some George Washingtons, some Thomas Jeffersons, some Ben Franklins. Hopefully, this will be the first step in pursuing and establishing that.
And the other thing is very clear. The Sunnis, who are the big losers in this power struggle, who have held power for the better part of, certainly 35 years, maybe 80 years, they've lost power. They have to have a stake in the new Iraq -- a major stake. And hopefully, this is the beginning of all of that happening before the turnover of power on 30 June. We'll just have to wait and see, but it's promising.
HEMMER: Something tells me there's psychology 101 involved in here somewhere.
SHEPPERD: Absolutely.
HEMMER: Thank you, Don. Major General Don Shepperd in D.C. As always, great to talk with you.
SHEPPERD: Pleasure. HEMMER: Here's Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Millions of people watch Al-Jazeera every day. But is the Arab news channel fair? Secretary of State Colin Powell says he doesn't think so. In fact, on Tuesday, he told the government of Qatar, where the news channel is based, that it fuels -- the coverage, rather, fuels hatred of the United States. Hafez al-Mirazi, the Washington bureau chief of Al-Jazeera television, spoke with CNN, and then responded to some of the secretary's comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAFEZ AL-MIRAZI, AL-JAZEERA BUREAU CHIEF: When Al-Jazeera puts footage of civilian casualties in Fallujah and the rest of Iraq, I don't think that anybody is denying the authenticity of this footage of civilian casualty. I don't even see CNN carrying the same kind footage of civilian casualty. But we, in many chances and always on daily basis, we make sure that we will get the U.S. military point of view, the U.S. point of view. General Kimmitt, Ambassador Paul Bremer has been on Al-Jazeera just less than two days ago, and we are sure open to any kind of correction. If the U.S. said, no, this is not true, we'd immediately put a U.S. spokesman on air to say that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The White House has criticized Al-Jazeera's coverage before, but it's never made such a public issue of the channel with the government of Qatar.
HEMMER: The Supreme Court yesterday heard arguments about the government's right to imprison U.S. citizens known as enemy combatants without a trial. At issue here is whether or not the president is overstepping his authority in the current war on terror.
Our own justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, on that story today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The justices have been asked to decide whether the president exceeded his powers in the war on terror. Can he deny rights to two U.S. citizens, Jose Padilla and Yaser Hamdi, whom he declared enemy combatants.
Padilla, detained at Chicago's O'Hare Airport, accused of plotting to set off a radioactive dirty bomb, and Hamdi, captured fighting U.S. forces in Afghanistan. Both have never been charged, are locked up indefinitely at a naval brig in South Carolina and, until recently, denied access to lawyers.
JENNY MARTINEZ, JOSE PADILLA'S ATTORNEY: I think the important thing is that whatever Mr. Padilla did, this is still America. He's entitled to be charged with a crime and to have his day in court.
ARENA: But the Bush administration argues the president has broad powers as commander in chief, backed up by a congressional resolution passed just after the September 11 hijackings. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To read it, to deny the government the authority, to detain a latter-day citizen version of Mohamed Atta is to simply ignore the will of Congress.
ARENA: Even conservative Justice Scalia was skeptical.
ANTONIN SCALIA, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: It doesn't say you can do whatever it takes to win the war.
ARENA: The government says it's had to keep Hamdi and Padilla in custody for about two years to interrogate them and to prevent future attacks.
Justice O'Connor questioned the government's claim they could be held for as long as the war on terror lasts.
SANDRA DAY O'CONNOR, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Have we ever had a situation like this where presumably this status, war-like status, could last for 25 years, 50 years, whatever it is?
ARENA (on camera): Rulings are expected in late June -- the most important decisions on presidential powers since World War II.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Also in this last week, the court heard a similar case regarding citizens from other countries held at Gitmo. That ruling also expected by summer.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, what could be a way out of the explosive situation in Fallujah. We've got the latest on that plan to transfer power to the new Iraqi army.
HEMMER: Also, less than two hours away, a critical day for the Bush administration. The president and the vice president answering questions on 9/11.
O'BRIEN: Plus, veteran newswoman Barbara Walters is going gaga over an entirely different topic. Our "90-Second Pop" panel will have all of the details. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Jack's got the question of the day this morning. Hello.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Hello there.
A growing number of Iraqis and Americans want U.S. troops out of Iraq now. Fifty-seven percent of Iraqis say that U.S. troops should leave immediately, according to a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup Poll that was taken before the recent standoff in Fallujah developed. And a "New York Times"/CBS News Poll shows 46 percent of Americans say troops should leave Iraq as soon as possible.
So, the question this morning is: When is the right time for U.S. troops to leave Iraq? We're getting a lot of mail.
From Brad in Moretown, Vermont we hear this: "We're in a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. While we never should have invaded Iraq in the first place, now that we're there, we should establish some kind of stable government and security force before we leave."
Darlene in Raleigh, North Carolina: "I used to think we should stay and stabilize things in Iraq, but now I say get out. They don't want us there, so get out."
Bob in Knoxville, Tennessee: "Pull out of Iraq now. There's never going to be a democracy there. That's a Republican dream. The first free election in Iraq will be the last free election there. Some ayatollah will be elected and the rein of theocratic terror will begin all over again."
And Rich in Youngstown, Ohio: "Yesterday was 700 lives too late."
AM@CNN.com.
O'BRIEN: I'm sure there are lots of people agree with Rich in Youngstown, Ohio.
HEMMER: I think this situation in Fallujah is going to tell us an awful lot about what they can and cannot do in the near term.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
HEMMER: If these generals are true to their word, and if they can truly get some sort of control over what's happening in Fallujah, it may go a long way as to what's happening in these other areas.
O'BRIEN: But there are some analysts who say that actually the insurgents have to be killed or captured. And what it seems like -- and obviously it's early on -- what the generals are saying is that they'd disarm the insurgents. No one is saying they'd go in there and take out insurgents, which might lead you just to postponing a big problem, you know, at the same time.
HEMMER: One thing Tony Perry said when we talked to him in Fallujah earlier today, he said these generals can tell the difference between an accent in Baghdad and an accent from Damascus. And these generals who live in that town know who the insurgents are, who they can work with and who they cannot. If that's the case, perhaps there's a silver lining in that.
O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
CAFFERTY: I'll believe it when I see if it's true.
O'BRIEN: I'm voting with Jack on this one. Still to come this morning, once known for his wild on-stage antics, is Prince's "Purple Rain" becoming a little more tame? Our "90-Second Pop" panel is going to weigh in on that just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: He sounds good and looks good, doesn't he? Welcome back, everybody. It's time for a little slice of life that we like to call "90-Second Pop". Joining us this morning, Sarah Bernard. She's "New York" magazine's contributing editor. Also humorist Andy Borowitz. He has written what we like to call the definitive work on "Governor Arnold." And Jessica Shaw from "Entertainment Weekly" joins us.
Nice to see you, Jessica. Welcome, everybody. Let's get right into it. Before we get to Prince, who just looks fantastic and sounds great.
SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: What's his secret? What's his beauty secret?
O'BRIEN: You're scaring me. Let's talk about this "20/20" show. They've got a show called "Be My Baby." It airs on Friday. Lots of controversy.
BERNARD: There's a bit of a controversy about it. Well, the show is actually about five couples vying for the son of a 16-year-old girl from Ohio. Now, the promo that's been airing about it is posing that the show is kind of like a competition, like a reality show. And...
O'BRIEN: I'm going to stop you there so we can watch the promo.
BERNARD: Oh, OK.
O'BRIEN: So everyone can get a sense of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: An emotional television event. One teenage mother making the most important decision of her young life: choosing adoptive parents for her baby from these five couples. It's an adoption unlike any you've ever seen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: It's like they made it a reality show.
ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: You know, at least they are not exploiting it, though.
O'BRIEN: Right.
BERNARD: Yes, that's right.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNARD: There are some topics that probably should not be reality show driven. I mean, you know...
O'BRIEN: But it's not a reality show.
BERNARD: No, I don't think it's actually set up like contestant No. 1, 2, 3, but it's such an emotional, intense process. And the fact that they are sort of following people as their, you know, fingers are crossed hoping to get this baby, it's a little upsetting. I mean...
JESSICA SHAW, "ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY": But they want -- I mean, that's what the promo looked like. They want to sell it like it is a reality show. I mean, I was watching it, and I was thinking, my god, they're going to like be eating worms or fighting each other and climbing ropes...
O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to win the baby at the end.
SHAW: Jeff Probst (ph) was going to show up any second.
BERNARD: I think it might be the way that they cut the promo, and hopefully that on Friday it's more of a journalistic piece on open adoption. But we shall see. I mean, "The Swan" was deep, but we don't really want to...
(CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: I was wondering, though, you know, when this kid gets adopted and then grows up and the parents are some day showing the photo album, how do they explain who Barbara Walters is? That's what I want to know. That can be traumatic.
SHAW: She'll still be on somewhere.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about "American Idol." There was Elton John claiming racism when Jennifer Hudson was ousted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
O'BRIEN: So, this week it was John Stevens.
SHAW: Who couldn't be more white.
O'BRIEN: Well, then, it's not racist?
SHAW: So, I don't (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Elton's word, right . Well, much to the elation of Simon Cowell, John Stevens got voted off this week.
O'BRIEN: Oh, is he bad?
SHAW: Well, he wasn't so good with the singing. O'BRIEN: OK.
SHAW: Which doesn't help.
(CROSSTALK)
O'BRIEN: He was no singer. That's a problem.
SHAW: Right. Last week, Jennifer Hudson got voted off, and that just caused a huge scandal in the "Idol" world.
O'BRIEN: Huge ratings -- I mean, or voting, I should say. They said some massive number of people actually voted.
BOROWITZ: You know, the positive thing is that there's consolation prize. John gets a shot at adopting a baby as a consolation prize.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNARD: I was worried about Fantasia, because she is my favorite and she had dedicated her song to Jennifer.
O'BRIEN: What a great name.
(CROSSTALK)
SHAW: Yes, you know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a little bit too much pandering, like, I want Jennifer.
BERNARD: That's true. I thought there was going to be a backlash (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
O'BRIEN: Too much pandering on "American Idol?" I'm appalled.
BERNARD: Don't you think she should win for her name alone?
O'BRIEN: Absolutely.
BOROWITZ: Fantasia?
BERNARD: Yes.
O'BRIEN: As a gal named Soledad, Fantasia, I'm loving it.
MTV, MTV2, BET, VH1, VH1 Classic all carried Prince. Let's roll some Prince just for (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BOROWITZ: Oh, all right, why not?
O'BRIEN: There we go.
I love Prince, and there was a time when you really couldn't listen to his albums with your parents in the room because there's, like, honestly, simulated sex and lots of stuff like that that's hard to explain to your parents. BERNARD: This is the new Prince.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BOROWITZ: I actually think the FCC should now fine Prince for not having enough sex. I think there's like...
O'BRIEN: Was it boring?
BOROWITZ: Well, no. You know, I mean, it was just he was everywhere last night. It was like MTV, VH1, I think I saw it on the Food Network. It was like a Bush campaign ad.
O'BRIEN: C-SPAN.
BOROWITZ: Yes, it was everywhere.
SHAWA: I'm hoping this opens it up for other '80s artists like Elle DeBarge (ph).
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: Hey, I love Elle DeBarge (ph).
SHAW: Who doesn't, honey? I mean...
BOROWITZ: Actually Goo-Goo (ph), I just want to put in a little word for them.
BERNARD: Well, what's great about him is that hopefully a whole new generation. We were just saying that maybe Andy's daughter is going to get into Prince.
BOROWITZ: My daughter (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
O'BRIEN: Really?
BOROWITZ: Yes.
O'BRIEN: How funny.
BERNARD: But, you know, he's a Jehovah's Witness now.
BOROWITZ: Right. He came to my door last night. I was shocked by that.
BERNARD: So, he's clean up his act, and he's rewriting some of his lyrics to...
SHAW: A lot of the scandalous lyrics, a lot of the sex lyrics.
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: Yes, they've got to go.
BERNARD: Out of there. BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: Huh, interesting. We have time to talk about "People's" 50 most beautiful people. I didn't make the list this year, so...
BOROWITZ: Oh, I forgot about you, Soledad.
BERNARD: That's terrible.
BOROWITZ: I really feel, you know, for the 10th year in a row, Jack Cafferty was robbed. I really do feel that. I really do.
O'BRIEN: On behalf of AMERICAN MORNING, we are shocked and outraged.
BERNARD: We want a recount.
BOROWITZ: Right.
BOROWITZ: But this is a very influential thing.
O'BRIEN: Who is on the cover of this magazine?
BERNARD: Jennifer Aniston.
SHAW: Jennifer Aniston.
BOROWITZ: Right.
SHAW: You know, they really went out on the limb.
BOROWITZ: Thinking outside the box.
SHAW: Catherine Zeta-Jones, Jennifer Aniston, I think Jude Law. I mean, who thinks he's beautiful?
BERNARD: I think they should have done the worst looking, because that's always more fun, the worst dressed and worst looking.
BOROWITZ: Right.
O'BRIEN: You scare me so much. The worst, can you imagine? Oh, I made "People" magazine's 50 ugliest.
BERNARD: That would be really interesting to talk about.
BOROWITZ: This issue is very important to careers. I mean, not so much the people, but the plastic surgeons who worked on these people. It's very, very important.
SHAW: That's true.
BERNARD: True, because people take the issue in and they say, I want to look like this. SHAW: Exactly.
BOROWITZ: I want to look like that. Right.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
BOROWITZ: After I'm adopted by Barbara Walters, I want that face.
O'BRIEN: She's not doing the adoption.
BOROWITZ: Oh, perhaps I've distorted the facts somewhat.
O'BRIEN: Oh, whatever. Sarah and Andy and Jessica, thanks for being with us. Thanks for being with us this morning. Nice to have you guys, as always -- Bill.
HEMMER: I'm going with Jack, too, Andy. Your vote is well cast.
In a moment, the president and the vice president are getting ready for that 9/11 Commission; in fact, 90 minutes away from that. The history and the controversy for today's meeting in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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