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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees

FBI Detain Oregon Native In Connection With Madrid Bombings; Osama bin Laden Offers Reward For Death Of American Officials; Iraqi Born U.S. Citizen Taken Hostage In Iraq

Aired May 06, 2004 - 19:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Anderson Cooper.
Osama bin Laden offers gold for the death of American officials, 360 starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): An Iraqi American taken hostage by insurgents, devastated family begs for his release, we'll have the latest.

Is Donald Rumsfeld finished? Calls increase for the president to sack his defense chief.

Ordinary people driven to torture, placed in their situation would you do the same?

They're called miracle diet breakthroughs but can anyone actually afford them?

And, we'll take you to the so-called death zone where a single bad judgment can cost you your life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Good evening.

We begin with a new U.S. hostage, another American taken in Iraq. A devastated family begs for his release. We'll have that story coming up.

But we begin tonight with a new message apparently from Osama bin Laden offering a reward, 22 pounds in Gold for the killing of top U.S. and U.N. officials in Iraq.

The eerie audio tape surfaces just hours after President Bush apologizes for the first time for the Iraqi prison abuse by U.S. soldiers and as calls for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's resignation grow louder.

In Washington tracking developments tonight, CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor, CNN's Senior White House Correspondent John King and CNN's Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre, we begin with David Ensor. David what does the tape threaten? DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, on the new audio tape, Anderson, which as you say is attributed to bin Laden, the fugitive terrorist leader or his voice, offers rewards in gold for killing top Americans in Iraq and lesser rewards for killing British, Japanese or Italian citizens there.

"You know that America promised big rewards for those who killed mujaheddin," the speaker says. "We in the al Qaeda organization will guarantee, God willing, 10,000 grams of gold to whoever kills Paul Bremer, the Coalition Provisional Authority chief, the same reward for the top American general in Iraq, General Sanchez, and the same for either United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan or his special representative for Iraqi Lakhdar Brahimi."

Ten thousand grams of gold is currently worth about $137,000, according to estimates. That's by contrast with the U.S. price on bin Laden's head which currently stands at $50 million.

The voice says the upcoming transfer of sovereignty to a transitional Iraqi government is "an overt trick to anesthetize the people and abort the militant resistance." The voice says it will not deceive the true mujaheddin of the sons of Iraq. A CIA spokesman says the new 20-plus minute audio tape is being analyzed to see if it really is the voice of bin Laden -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, David Ensor, live in Washington, thanks David.

The president didn't say it yesterday on Arab TV but today President Bush apologized for the Iraqi prison abuse at the hands of the U.S. soldiers.

Here's CNN's Senior White House Correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the Rose Garden with Jordan's King Abdullah, the president delivered the direct apology missing from earlier efforts to quiet Arab outrage.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I told him I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners and the humiliation suffered by their families.

KING: King Abdullah called the abuses heinous crimes but said he trusted Mr. Bush's promise to find and punish those responsible.

KING ABDULLAH, JORDAN: And we hope that will happen very quickly and that, you know, it doesn't reflect on the morals, the values that the United States stands for.

KING: The president dismissed Democratic calls for Defense Secretary Rumsfeld to resign but, a day after chastising Mr. Rumsfeld in private, Bush did make clear he believed the Pentagon wrongly kept him in the dark about the scope of the abuses.

BUSH: And I told him I should have known about the pictures and the report.

KING: Critical air of support in public but sources tell CNN the Jordanian delegation described the impact in the Arab world as devastating and the emergence of more pictures will only add to the diplomatic challenge.

BUSH: It's a stain on our country's honor and our country's reputation. I fully understand that.

KING: The negative headlines in the Arab world come as the president faces image problems at home as well. Forty-nine percent of Americans now approve of how Mr. Bush is handling his job, down from 60 percent in a Gallup poll in January and just 42 percent approve of how Mr. Bush is handling Iraq, down 20 points since the campaign year began.

Democrat John Kerry seized on Mr. Bush's statements that he did not receive critical information about the abuses.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As president, I will not be the last to know what is going on in my command.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: John King joins us now. John, how concerned is the White House about these poll numbers? Are they seeing a shift to John Kerry?

KING: They are not seeing a shift to John Kerry. That is the most significant part of the poll numbers, Anderson. Yes, the president's disapproval rating when it comes to Iraq is going up. Fewer Americans support what the president is doing in Iraq.

So far the administration has not seen any shift in terms of the horse race numbers over to John Kerry and, in fact, the president still has an advantage over John Kerry when voters are asked who do you trust more to deal with Iraq, President Bush or Senator John Kerry? So, the president's numbers are getting worse. So far, Senator Kerry has not benefited emphasis on so far.

COOPER: Interesting. John King at the White House, thanks John.

Donald Rumsfeld kept a low profile today canceling a speaking engagement to prepare for his appearance before the Senate and House Armed Services Committees tomorrow and he is expected tomorrow to feel the full blast of outrage from lawmakers on both sides of the political aisle.

CNN's Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The morning's "Washington Post" brought fresh pictures of the abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison. A female soldier from the 372nd MP Company holds a lease attached to a naked prisoner. Other unclothed prisoners are seen shackled to the cells with hoods or women's underwear over their heads.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: The actions of the soldiers in those photos are totally unacceptable.

MCINTYRE: It was left to Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz to deliver the denouncement at a speech in Philadelphia that was to be given by his embattled boss.

Sources say Donald Rumsfeld skipped the appearance to prepare for the grilling he's about to get from angry members of Congress, especially Democrats who are increasingly calling for him to step down.

SEN. TOM HARKIN (D), IOWA: I still believe for the benefit of our country, our nation, our honor that he has to resign and he has to go. Nothing I think less will suffice.

MCINTYRE: Senators are particularly miffed that the day the pictures were about to hit the air waves, Rumsfeld failed to mention the abuse in closed door hearings on Capitol Hill.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: Mr. Rumsfeld has been engaged in a cover-up from the start on this issue and continues to be so.

MCINTYRE: But even as President Bush admitted unhappiness that he too was kept in the dark about the gravity of the abuse, he says he won't fire Rumsfeld.

BUSH: He's an important part of my cabinet and he'll stay in my cabinet.

MCINTYRE: And some Republicans went so far as to suggest Rumsfeld's detractors were defeatists.

REP. TOM DELAY (R), MAJORITY LEADER: Calling for Secretary Rumsfeld's resignation is as bad as saying the war is unwinnable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld is described as upbeat and anxious to tell his side of the story by Republican Senators who had breakfast with him this morning. He's said to have a rational explanation for how he handled the crisis and seems to be convinced that once he tells that side of the story the calls for his head will die down -- Anderson.

COOPER: It's going to be a fascinating hearing. Jamie McIntyre thanks very much.

We're going to have a quick flashback for you right now. The last secretary of defense to resign was Les Aspin. That was back in 1993. You may remember he denied a request for tanks by a U.S. commander in Somalia. After 18 Americans died in a firefight, Aspin admitted his mistake and resigned under pressure. Well, another American hostage in Iraq, a family sees their missing son for the first time. We're going to have their story coming up.

Plus, what can drive ordinary people to commit unspeakable acts and could you become a torturer? You might be surprised by the answer.

Plus, on a lighter note, the high price of losing weight, some low cost alternatives to those pricey fad diets, all that ahead.

First your picks, the most popular stories on cnn.com right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, since the wave of hostage taking began last month in Iraq, dozens of people from a variety of countries have been grabbed. Today, another American was taken an Iraqi American and his wife and three young sons are pleading for his safe return, their story from CNN's Adrian Baschuk.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADRIAN BASCHUK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This mother can only watch her captive son on TV.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was kidnapped and I call upon the Muslim association to interfere.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back in Denver, the man's horrified family is pleading for his release.

BASCHUK: Aban Elias' frustrated brother watches himself make the case for a Muslim-Iraqi born U.S. citizen to be freed.

KAZWAN ELIAS, HOSTAGE'S BROTHER: We are very surprised because I mean he's Muslim. He does his prayers and he fasts month of Ramadan.

BASCHUK: Aban Elias is a father of three young sons. He left Iraq at age seven and grew up in Abu Dhabi. At 18, he enrolled at Denver's Metropolitan State College, then worked as a civil engineer for Colorado's Department of Transportation for five years before moving back to the United Arab Emirates. He returned to Iraq just after the fall of Saddam.

ELIAS: We always had it in the back of our mind to just go back one day and see where we were born and just to help the people.

BASCHUK: Elias owned a gravel factory and hoped to turn a big profit by securing civil contracts.

ELIAS: He knows it's going to take like a couple or three years but he was willing to, you know, take that risk.

BASCHUK: The risk was not paying off, no contracts yet. Now his family waits for a phone call from the State Department but so far they've only heard from a sympathetic member of Congress and various media outlets.

ELIAS: Everybody got the story.

BASCHUK: Elias' mother wants her son's captives to hear her plea in Arabic.

"Please for God's sake be kind to him" she says. "He has three kids and nothing to do with politics."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASCHUK: Now a big question in this story is how could a Muslim Iraqi-born Arabic-speaking man be taken hostage in Iraq? Well, his mother who was in Baghdad recently blames his car. She says that she warned him to stay off the streets because he was driving around in a new Jeep Cherokee SUV, a dead giveaway, she warned him, that he was an American citizen -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Adrian Baschuk in Denver thanks very much.

Today, a dramatic battle in the Iraqi city of Najaf between U.S. forces and Iraqi insurgents, the American base there has come under intense mortar fire in the last few hours.

CNN's Jane Arraf is in Najaf witnessing the battle under fire herself. She joins us by phone. Jane, what's the latest?

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (via telephone): Anderson, there's been sort of an unnatural calm since the U.S. responded by dropping a 500-pound bomb from an F-16 on a mortar position just before there had been intense mortar fire.

We're in a bunker with sandbags. Now this place, this U.S. base in Najaf, comes under mortar attack nightly but today it appeared to be a response to the U.S. taking over the governor's office in Najaf. This was simultaneous with political officials announcing the appointment of a new governor that they were installing here in Najaf.

Now engagements as well with U.S. forces and throughout members of the militia, they say they killed more than 50 of them. They've been waiting for a response and this appeared to be it -- Anderson.

COOPER: What is the situation with Muqtada al-Sadr? I know he's not in Najaf itself but is the U.S. actually planning on moving against him anytime soon?

ARRAF: He's believed to be in Kufa, which is adjoining and has an ancient mosque. Now, it's an interesting situation, Anderson. They started out this series of dramatic events about a month ago, you'll remember, with Muqtada al-Sadr seizing control and, I don't now if you can hear me over this tank behind me, but seizing control of Najaf, Karbala and other cities.

Just after that the U.S. vowed to kill or capture him. We haven't heard a lot of those direct threats anymore. In fact, what they're doing is a two-pronged approach, military pressure and a political approach as well.

So, Anderson, I'm just waiting for the tank to go by but we have not heard threats lately to kill or capture him. They are adopting a multi-faceted approach at the moment -- Anderson.

COOPER: Jane, you've been doing remarkable work all day under fire. Thank you very much for joining us tonight, thanks Jane. Stay safe.

To give you an idea of just how tense the situation is there in Najaf and the danger Jane Arraf is facing, take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARRAF (voice-over): (Unintelligible), Jane. Do you see us? Can you hear us?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Earlier today she was making a call, getting ready to do a live shot. Bullets were flying, as you see. She kept her cool but definitely a dangerous situation. As we said, we hope she stays safe.

Major drug indictment, that story tops our look at news "Cross Country" right now. U.S. authorities indict eight accused members of a Colombian drug cartel suspected of supplying more than half of the cocaine that enters the U.S. Rewards of up to $5 million each will be offered for information leading to their arrest and conviction.

Tampa, Florida now, life and death battle, Governor Jeb Bush files an appeal after a judge today threw out a law that Bush used to order a severely brain damaged woman be kept alive. Terri Schiavo (ph) has been in a vegetative state for 14 years now. Her husband says she wouldn't want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that.

In Boston, accused pedophile priest defrocked. The Vatican has kicked out this man, Paul Shanley, accused -- well kicked him out of the priesthood. Shanley was a key figure in the sex abuse scandal of the Archdiocese of Boston.

Houston now, Lea Fastow sentenced. The wife of former Enron finance chief Andrew Fastow pleads guilty to a misdemeanor charge of filing a false tax return, tax form, and is sentenced to a year in prison.

McAlister, Oklahoma, juror replaced. A juror in the state trial of Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols had a heart attack today and was replaced by an alternate. The juror is expected to make a full recovery. Nichols is serving a life sentence on federal charges. State prosecutors are seeking the death penalty. That's a look at stories "Cross Country" right now.

The cost of being skinny is skyrocketing, no doubt about it. All those low carb, no carb diets sound good but are they breaking your bank? We're going to have a low cost alternative ahead. Also tonight, prosecutors say lust and greed drove a woman to poison her husband with antifreeze, a remarkable story. We're going to look into that case going on in Georgia right now.

And a little later, a lawyer in Portland is being held by the FBI. Was he involved in Madrid rail bombings? We'll get the latest in a live update.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, a recent Neilson survey says that more than 17 percent of Americans are currently on a low carb diet. They must be the rich ones because diets are not just hard to keep, they're often hard to pay for.

CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Elizabeth Cohen explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Blueberries, salmon, asparagus, sea bass, goat cheese, can you afford to go on a low carb diet?

PHIL LEMPERT: There's no question that if you're going low carb you got to have a lot of money.

COHEN (on camera): We decided to go to a grocery store to see how much it costs to go on the South Beach Diet, one of the most popular low carb diets.

(voice-over): Here's just part of the shopping list for one day's meal plan. Many recipes call for berries. These are $4 a box. This London broil will set you back nearly $10. Asparagus is $3.50 a pound, peppers $4 a pound.

When you break it all down, one shopping experts says going on South Beach or Atkins costs nearly $100 a week for one person, double what most Americans spend on groceries and that doesn't even include the prepared foods that are on the market. This Atkins chocolate bar costs $2.50.

Supermarket expert Phil Lempert says low carb diets don't have to be expensive. One hint buy frozen blueberries instead of fresh.

LEMPERT: And keep in mind the frozen ones are actually packed at the time of freshness, so you're going to get a fresher tasting product. You could save ten, 20, 30, even 40 percent.

COHEN: Here are some other tips. Replace fish and red meat with chicken. Buy frozen fish and vegetables. Buy unpackaged lettuce instead of the kind in the bag. And, of course, you don't have to go on a special diet to lose weight. Exercise is cheap and so is good old-fashioned just eating less.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, there's always that.

We're going to check some stories right now from around the world in tonight's "Up Link." Let's take a look.

A Libyan court sentences five Bulgarian nurses and one Palestinian doctor to death by firing squad for deliberately infecting more than 400 Libyan children with the AIDS virus in 1999 using HIV tainted blood products at a hospital. The health workers say they're innocent. Their lawyers say they are going to appeal.

Yelwa, Nigeria, massacre death toll, a Muslim leader says 630 bodies have been buried after an attack by Christian militia on Sunday.

In Russia now, sex slaves rescued. Two Russian girls have been rescued after being kept in this cellar where they were beaten and raped for three and a half years resulting in three pregnancies. The girls were 14 and 17 when they were kidnapped.

A 53-year-old man has been charged. The girls say after three years their captor took them into town for short periods of time and in town they passed a note to a stranger that led to their rescue, unbelievable.

In Washington now, tough stance on Cuba, President Bush is promising to try to end Cuban President Fidel Castro's rule. Bush says he will increase anti-Castro propaganda and help dissidents. That's a quick look at stories around the world in the "Up Link" tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Ordinary people driven to torture. Placed in their situation would you do the same?

And we'll take you to the so-called death zone where a single bad judgment could cost you your life, 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time now to "Reset" our top stories.

A recorded message attributed to Osama bin Laden offers gold to anyone who kills Coalition Provisional Authority Chief Paul Bremer or other top U.S. and U.N. officers in Iraq, as well as the U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan. Intelligence officials haven't yet confirmed the voice is bin Laden.

President Bush is showing confidence in Donald Rumsfeld today calling him "a really good secretary of defense," a vote of confidence. Democratic Congressman Charles Rangel today said Congress should impeach Rumsfeld if the president doesn't fire him over the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal. John Kerry today reiterated his call for Rumsfeld to resign. Kerry also said if he is elected president he wouldn't be the last to know about the actions of U.S. forces.

The FDA won't let the morning after pill be sold over the counter for now. The FDA says it could change its mind if the makers of the emergency contraceptive show evidence that teens younger than 16 can safely use it without a doctor's guidance.

(BREAKING NEWS)

COOPER: I want to get you up to date now on some breaking news, a story that is breaking at this hour. The FBI has taken a Portland, Oregon man into custody based on information from Spanish authorities he may, and we say may, have been involved in the Madrid rail bombings. It is breaking news.

Let's get the latest details now from CNN Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena. Kelli, what do you know?

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, you're right. Sources do tell CNN that, as you said, may be a U.S. connection to the March 11 bombings in Madrid.

FBI agents took into custody a Portland, Oregon lawyer based on information from Spanish authorities that he may have been involved in that attack. Now, law enforcement sources say Brandon Mayfield is being held as a material witness and that basically means that he can be held secretly while not being charged.

According to those sources, his fingerprint was found on a plastic bag with bomb-related material, which was connected to the Madrid attack. Sources describe him as a Muslim convert.

They say that he's been under 24/7 surveillance for some time and he just happened to represent one of the chief defendants in the so- called Portland Seven terror case in a prior custody battle.

The members of that alleged Portland cell pled guilty last year of plotting to fight for the Taliban against the U.S. in Afghanistan but there's no suggestion at this point that there's any relation between that group and what happened in Spain -- Anderson.

COOPER: Kelli, you say he's been under surveillance for some time.

ARENA: Yes, that's our understanding. That the Spanish authorities passed on information that law enforcement decided to surveil him for some time to see if that would lead to other individuals or leads and for whatever reason decided to move in on him today and take him into custody.

COOPER: Thanks very much, Kelli.

It seems everyone who knows the soldiers accused of humiliating and torturing Iraqi prisoners says the same thing, it must be a mistake, they say. It's not in their nature. It's not the person they know. Yet the pictures tell a different story. So why then would someone turn from soldier to sadist? John Conroy, my next guest, knows all too well. He's the author of "Unspeakable Acts, Ordinary People, the Dynamics of Torture." He's a staff writer for the "Chicago Reader." I spoke with him earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

When you look at these pictures from Iraq, I think everyone who looks at them is sort of stunned, horrified by them, and you think to yourself who could do this? Who is capable of this sort of thing? How do you answer that?

JOHN CONROY, AUTHOR, "UNSPEAKABLE ACTS, ORDINARY PEOPLE": I think most of us are capable of it. I think that...

COOPER: You or I, anyone in the wrong circumstances or the right circumstances is capable of abuse, of torture?

CONROY: I think so. I say this both on the basis of anecdotal evidence from former torturers who I interviewed during the course of working on my book, but also the scientific studies have been done, most famous of which is Stanley Milgram's study in which he had people coming in, they're introduced to an authority figure who told them to shock people who gave the wrong answer to a question. And they were more than 60 percent of the people who came in were willing to go all the way to the end of the scale where it's a dangerous, severe shock even though the person was pleading not to be shocked as long as there's an authority figure in the room.

Now, imagine the volunteers in that experiment had no -- nothing bound them to that authority figure. So imagine what it would be like if you've been trained to obey, and now you're responding to people whom you respect.

COOPER: We've got some footage from this Stanford prison experiment that was done back in 1971, by psychologist Philip Zimbardo. I want to show a little bit of that. Tell us basically what happened in this experiment?

CONROY: Basically Zimbardo set up a mock prison and he recruited his students to take part in this. And they were assigned somewhat randomly to be jailers and the jailed. And he intended it to be a two-week experiment, and he had to stop it within six days, because the brutality that the guards took on, the persona that they took on was so potentially damaging to the inmate students that he couldn't go on.

COOPER: And there's an element not only in that experiment, but also in these pictures of Iraq of humiliation. And humiliating these persons or these prisoners seems to play a big role. Why is humiliation so important?

CONROY: You know, there's a real interesting book by a woman named Gitta Sereny called "Into that Darkness" in which she interviews Franz Stangl who was the commandant at Treblinka. And she asks him, if you were going to kill these Jews anyway, what was the purpose of humiliating them? And he responds, well, we humiliated them in order to be able to kill them. In other words, if you dehumanize someone, it's much easier to torture them, it's much easier to regard them as something less than you are. And not your equal. And a member of this out group. This torturable class that I argue is present in almost every society.

COOPER: And you know, I think one of the things that also caught a lot of people's attention about these pictures in Iraq is seeing a woman or women in these pictures engaged with these prisoners in the same way that the men were.

CONROY: I think that what you're seeing really is the progressive nature of the American military system, which has moved women into positions where they weren't back in the Vietnam days or I think we would have seen the same thing.

COOPER: So in order to turn you or to turn me, or to turn someone viewing at home into someone willing to commit torture, what does it take?

CONROY: Well, it helps if you're a member of a military organization, you've been trained to obey. It helps if the person whom you're supposed to torture is regarded as someone less than you. Now, the other thing is that the society has to give you permission to do this. And that permission, I think, came from, in this case, the Defense department has already said we are going to deprive people of sleep. We're going to hood people. We're going to -- all of these things which in other instances amount to torture.

COOPER: If it's a group mentality, a group thing, but an individual standing up and saying no, I'm not going to do this, you all shouldn't do this, that could make a difference?

CONROY: One person standing up, reminding people of their core values, reminding people that they're off course here, can change the situation.

COOPER: John Conroy, it's a fascinating subject. You've written about it a lot. Thanks very much for being on the program.

CONROY: Thank you very much, Anderson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: One person can make a difference. The pressure is mounting on Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to take responsibility for the Iraqi prison abuse and resign. Tomorrow he's going to tell his story on Capitol Hill in front of the Senate and House armed services committees. Should Rumsfeld pay the price for the scandal? A lingering question tonight on many lips. CNN's Jeanne Meserve reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Demands that heads should roll for the alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib prison from some publications, pundits and Democratic politicians.

SEN. TOM HARKIN (D), IOWA, For our country, I believe Mr. Rumsfeld has to resign.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA: I am calling for Mr. Rumsfeld's resignation.

DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Ladies and gentlemen, the commander-in-chief.

MESERVE: President Bush says Rumsfeld will stay. That is consistent with his reputation for loyalty and his history.

THOMAS MANN, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: If you look at the major traumatic events during his presidency. The 9/11 attacks in New York and Washington, and the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, there was no acknowledgment of responsibility and certainly no one in his administration was asked to pay a price.

MESERVE: But a new Gallup poll shows public approval of the president's handling of Iraq tumbling in the last two weeks. And the numbers may not yet reflect the full impact of the prison abuse story. Tossing Rumsfeld or some other top official might stop the slide, or it could give the president's political opponents new ammunition to say his policies have failed.

ALLAR LICHTMAN, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: If he fires someone now, it's going to look like he did so under pressure from the press, and under pressure from the Democrats. If he was going to fire anyone he should have done it yesterday before the cascade of pressure began.

MESERVE: Ultimately, whether higher-ups stay or go may not depend on political calculations or rhetoric, but on the facts, of who knew and condoned what happened at Abu Ghraib. Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: As always, we'd like to hear from you, we'd like to know what you think. Today's buzz is this, should Donald Rumsfeld resign? Log on to CNN.com/360. Cast your vote. We'll have results at the end of the program.

At the White House today a rare move. Something most of us, especially the president of the United States, hates to do, apologize. Mr. Bush saying he was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners. That's a quote. Tonight the raw politics of saying you're sorry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I regret deeply...

JIMMY CARTER, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I take full responsibility...

BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I made a mistake, said that I regretted it.

COOPER (voice-over): Like most of us, presidents don't like to apologize. Since Richard Nixon's resignation speech in 1974, most have had to at one time or another. Jimmy Carter took full responsibility after the failed rescue mission of hostages in Iran in 1980. Ronald Reagan took the rap for being stubborn in the Iran/Contra scandal.

RONALD REAGAN, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But there's nothing I can say that would make the situation right.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Traditionally American presidents don't like to say they're sorry. When they do, it will only be that line that gets plastered all over the world.

COOPER: The modern-day president, who did it more than most, Bill Clinton.

CLINTON: And never again must we be shy in the face of the evidence.

COOPER: In 1998, he apologized for failing to help prevent the genocide in Rwanda that left more than 800,000 dead. But the mother of all apologies was on national television.

CLINTON: Indeed, I did have a relationship with Miss Lewinsky that was not appropriate.

COOPER: For a president, an apology is the political tool of last resort.

BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: The reason for apologizing is always one thing. Stop the political damage.

COOPER: And sometimes it works. In 1961, President Kennedy went on TV to take full responsibility for the Bay of Pigs fiasco. His ratings immediately shot up eleven points. But it doesn't always work out that way.

SCHNEIDER: The downside, of course, is it risks making the president look weak. A president never wants to look weak.

COOPER: Apologizing without looking weak, that's a challenge steeped in raw politics.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And here's a quick 360 news note for you. The recent bad news out of Iraq doesn't seem to be hurting President Bush's election campaign cash flow. New records released by his campaign show so far he's raised a record $200 million. That's more than twice the almost $95 million he collected in the 2000 race. Senator John Kerry has raised at least $112 million. Twice as much as former vice president Al Gore did in 2000.

Well, a woman accused of a shocking murder. Did she actually use antifreeze to poison her own husband to death? The story coming up.

Also, testing the limits of endurance and defying the laws of gravity. Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes you extreme climbing.

And a little later, tired of all the yammering about the finale of "Friends?" We are. Enough already. It's overkill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time for some "Justice Served" now. The murder trial that is gripping Georgia, did a woman poison her husband with antifreeze? And if so, was he her only victim.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Prosecutors say Lynn Turner's motives were money and sex. They say she urged her husband, police officer Glen Turner, to make her the beneficiary of his $100,000 life insurance policy, then killed him by feeding him antifreeze. And they say she was having an affair with firefighter Randy Thompson.

But Lynn Turner tells another story. She says, in the early morning hours of March 3, 1995, she found her husband hallucinating, believing he could fly. And that whatever he drank, he drank on his own.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While they were in the basement he said he was thirsty, picked up a jar that had liquid in it and started to drink it. She stopped him

COOPER: Neighbors testified about Lynn Turner's strange behavior before and after her husband's death. The defense says the case has more rumor and gossip than evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard her say, I wish they'd hurry up so we could get the hell out of here.

COOPER: Whatever the final verdict of this case, Lynn Turner's legal troubles may not be over. Although she's not been charged, authorities say she is the prime suspect in the 2001 death of her alleged lover, Randy Johnson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Covering the chilling case for us tonight, Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom. Lisa good to see you tonight.

LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: Hi.

COOPER: Took them nine years to bring charges against this woman. Why so long?

BLOOM: That's right. Well there's two men in the state of Georgia, in its entire history that have died from antifreeze poisoning. Both of them were in love with Lynn Turner, one of them died in 1995, one of them died in 2001. And after the 2001 death, the mothers of these two men got together and said, this can't be a coincidence. Two young men dying of natural causes in their early 30s. Both of them lovers with Lynn Turner. They pushed for an investigation. They got the toxicology reports and they found out that both of them had ethylene glycol in their system, that's the active ingredient in antifreeze.

COOPER: And one witness testified that this woman, Lynn, had asked her about antifreeze and its effect on cats?

BLOOM: That's right. Today, we saw that on Court TV on my show on Court TV.

COOPER: Oh, a little plug there.

BLOOM: 11:00 on Court TV. And that she was at an animal shelter and she says out of the blue to this animal shelter employee, oh by the way, does antifreeze kill cats? I know it can kill dogs.

Well, this woman saw the case on television. She came forward and reported it. Now she testified at the trial.

COOPER: She is not charged with the other death of her boyfriend.

BLOOM: Not yet.

COOPER: Not yet. That may very well happen.

BLOOM: Right.

COOPER: Is testimony about her boyfriend's death going to be admissible in this trial?

BLOOM: It is admissible. The judge has said it's a similar transaction so it's coming in. And what the judge is saying there is look coincidences they don't happen like this. Two men dead of antifreeze poisoning both of them associated with her. Even though she's only formally charged with the death of her husband, the death of the boyfriend is coming in.

COOPER: So the defense, how are they handling all this?

BLOOM: They're challenging everything. She asked about a cat. That has nothing to do with human beings. And ethylene glycol can come from other sources. It can come from many household cleaning products, for example. But the question is, how did it get into the bodies of these two men.

COOPER: And there have only been two deaths in the state of Georgia related to antifreeze?

BLOOM: That's right in the entire history both of them connected to Lynn Turner, her husband and then her boyfriend. That's the best piece of evidence the prosecution has.

COOPER: When is this thing going to go to the jury?

BLOOM: I'd say another week. The judge is moving the case along very quickly. He's even having case on Saturday.

COOPER: Fascinating. All right. Thanks very much. Lisa Bloom, always good to talk to you.

Extreme climbing: surviving the elements at the top of the world. Coming up, get your gear ready, Lisa, we're heading up the mountain. A Mt. Everest-like attitude with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Also tonight, are you sick of hearing about those friends? It's the finale tonight I hear. We are. It's our overkill tonight. All that apart.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, after days of side show stunts our senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta turns to new challenges that test the limits of human endurance. Tonight a trip into thin air with extreme climbers who soar to the skies without supplemental oxygen. Dr. Gupta is here with us tonight to talk about life beyond the limits. Good to see you again.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you. Really interesting stuff. Ed Viesturs, he's one of the world's greatest mountain climbers. He reaches the heights of human endurance, just make your head spin quite literally, leaves us all sort of holding our breath in amazement.

What happens, at higher elevations the body gets used to lower levels of oxygen and the simple act of breathing becomes very arduous. I actually put myself to the test here to see what it would feel like of just half the altitude of where Viesturs goes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): This is a view most people only see from an airplane window.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; We are climbing past 24,000 feet.

GUPTA: From the comfort and safety of a pressurized cabin. Climber Ed Veisturs prefers high altitude in thin air. He's one of only a handful of people in the world to climb 26,000 foot peaks without the use of supplemental oxygen.

(on camera): Most of us will never know what it really feels like to be at altitude. So we're here in a hyperbaric chamber which is going to simulate high altitudes. It's the Colorado Center for Altitude, Medicine and Physiology.

(voice-over): Here researchers simulate the mountain environment where weaponize and other climbers venture. I was wired up to monitor the oxygen levels in my brain during exercise while they simulated a rapid ascent to 14,110 feet, the top of Pike's Peak. As we got higher my blood saturation levels dropped, my ears popped and my breathing became more labored. Because I didn't have time to slowly adapt to the changes in pressure after just 10 minutes I was already showing signs of acute hypoxia.

(on camera): I feel a little bit light headed now. I mean, things are spinning a little bit more around me. I'm not seeing spots or anything. I was going to ask you another question but I forgot what the question was before I asked you.

(voice-over): Descending just 2,000 feet, I felt immensely better. If I had stayed up there for a few more hours I could have developed a severe headache, nausea and extreme fatigue. Some people are just better suited for climbing. I was told I had climber potential.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: It took us eight minute to get to the top of Pike's Peak in that chamber. They measure my blood saturation with oxygen. Typically it's 100, mine dropped into the 70s. If it dropped into the 60s I would have been in big trouble and you can see how quickly that can happen. I was just a few minutes from there.

COOPER: So, at something like 14,000 feet or so you actually don't think as clearly as you were thinking before?

GUPTA: Lots of things happen. Your vision can become blurry. You get the headache sometimes, and your judgment can become clouded which is very significant for these climbers who climb without oxygen. Sort of develop the superman phenomena where you think you can do things that you really can't.

COOPER: This is why they want you to acclimatize, spend some days on the mountain before making the summit.

GUPTA: Right. And use oxygen. Ed Viesturs is a very rare breed of people who won't use oxygen, most people. And ED says that whenever he climbs with other climbers when he's taking people up he'll use oxygen because he doesn't want his judgment impaired at all.

COOPER: And your special Sunday night, 9:00?

GUPTA: 9:00. All the science behind all the stuff.

DOBBS: The blockheads, lying on the bed of nails, all sorts of things.

(CROSSTALK)

GUPTA: The whole thing.

COOPER: All right, Sanjay, good to see you.

Let's go for some lighter stuff, check on some pop news in tonight's "Current." Model, Naomi Campbell, has won a lawsuit against a British paper that published photos of her leaving a narcotics anonymous meeting. The judge said they invaded her privacy. Actually in England they say privacy. The paper's editor said quote, "This is a very good day for lying, drug abusing prima donnas who want to have their cake with the media and shamelessly guzzle it with Cristol champagne." The guy is begging for a slander suit. Naomi Campbell is not going to like an implication that she eats cake.

Walter Cronkite is going on MTV. The 87-year-old newsman hosts a show about young people looking for jobs. It airs later this month. Cronkite will explain issues like underemployment and outsourcing and hopefully what all this forshizzle (ph) business is about once and for all. Walter Cronkite is totally crunk if you ask me.

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is suing a company for making a bobblehead doll of him. The company says as Governor Schwarzenegger is a public figure no different than any other politician. Which I suppose means we can look forward to the bobblehead Doll of the Wyoming Governor Dave Freudenthal. That would be a big seller.

Later tonight, after 10 years, and 236 episodes, NBC's "Friends" is bidding farewell. It's going to be one of those very special episode type deals. We've been bombarded with the news that "Friends" would end for nearly a year now. So we're calling tonight's episode the one where "Friends" turn into "Overkill."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Ready or not, it's time to let go of "Friends." And while parting may be such sweet sorrow, fanfare over the finale has been overwhelming. Two hours of "Dateline." An hour on "Oprah." And countless mentions just about everywhere else on television.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A farewell to Monica and Chandler and Phoebe.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are we going to do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean this is an era coming to an end.

COOPER: And in print. Most of us don't take this much trouble to say good-bye to our real friends. But let's face it, Ross, Rachel, Chandler, Monica, Joey and Phoebe weren't just any friends. Offscreen they were rich, successful friends.

MATTHEW PERRY, "FRIENDS": So we thought we'd throw you a little going away party.

COOPER: Just look at the numbers. They were on the air for a decade and in the top 10 for nearly the entire run. The actors who played the friends eventually earned $1 million each per episode. And they've been good friends to NBC and Warner Brothers, as well. Though the network won't make predictions there's speculation that more than 50 million of "Friends" friends will tune in to tonight's finale. NBC is charging $2 million for every 30-second spot in the show. And some estimates say Warner Brothers, which like CNN is owned by Time Warner, will pocket $2 billion in syndication sales. In just a couple of hours we'll know if there's a future for Ross and Rachel, if Chandler and Monica will move to the burbs. It will take a little longer to find out if Joey will go the distance or go the way of "After M.A.S.H." And if you're not suffering from "Friends" finale "Overkill," the DVD of tonight's final episode will be out in just five days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Can't wait for that.

Coming up wearing the liberal label, we'll take that to "The Nth Degree."

And tomorrow, an HIV positive man charged with sexual assault. Accused of intentionally spreading the virus to possibly 170 people. That's tomorrow.

First today's "Buzz," should Donald Rumsfeld resign?

What do you think? Log on to cnn.com/360 right now. Cast your votes and we'll have the results in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time now for "The Buzz." Earlier we asked should Donald Rumsfeld resign? Eighty-five percent of you said, yes, 15 percent of you said, no.

Not a scientific poll, but certainly, it is your "Buzz."

Finally tonight taking the L-word to "The Nth Degree." The L-word we're talking about is liberal. And if you're a Democrat you most definitely don't want to be wearing that label. According to a new report by the liberal think tank, the Center for American Progress the word liberal is, "Associated closely with the well meaning, admirable, but ultimately weak, naive, and ineffective approach to politics and governance."

So what's a liberal to do?

Well, they suggest become a progressive. See, according to the report, progressives are, "overwhelming associated with positive attributes."

But is this going to get out of hand?

Good-bye liberal arts education, hello progressive arts education.

And will a liberal helping a mashed potato become a progressive helping a spuds?

We still think there is a place for the word liberal, we promise we'll be conservative in it's use. That's 360 for tonight. I'm Anderson Cooper, thanks for watching. "PAULA ZAHN NOW" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Aired May 6, 2004 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Anderson Cooper.
Osama bin Laden offers gold for the death of American officials, 360 starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): An Iraqi American taken hostage by insurgents, devastated family begs for his release, we'll have the latest.

Is Donald Rumsfeld finished? Calls increase for the president to sack his defense chief.

Ordinary people driven to torture, placed in their situation would you do the same?

They're called miracle diet breakthroughs but can anyone actually afford them?

And, we'll take you to the so-called death zone where a single bad judgment can cost you your life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Good evening.

We begin with a new U.S. hostage, another American taken in Iraq. A devastated family begs for his release. We'll have that story coming up.

But we begin tonight with a new message apparently from Osama bin Laden offering a reward, 22 pounds in Gold for the killing of top U.S. and U.N. officials in Iraq.

The eerie audio tape surfaces just hours after President Bush apologizes for the first time for the Iraqi prison abuse by U.S. soldiers and as calls for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's resignation grow louder.

In Washington tracking developments tonight, CNN National Security Correspondent David Ensor, CNN's Senior White House Correspondent John King and CNN's Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre, we begin with David Ensor. David what does the tape threaten? DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, on the new audio tape, Anderson, which as you say is attributed to bin Laden, the fugitive terrorist leader or his voice, offers rewards in gold for killing top Americans in Iraq and lesser rewards for killing British, Japanese or Italian citizens there.

"You know that America promised big rewards for those who killed mujaheddin," the speaker says. "We in the al Qaeda organization will guarantee, God willing, 10,000 grams of gold to whoever kills Paul Bremer, the Coalition Provisional Authority chief, the same reward for the top American general in Iraq, General Sanchez, and the same for either United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan or his special representative for Iraqi Lakhdar Brahimi."

Ten thousand grams of gold is currently worth about $137,000, according to estimates. That's by contrast with the U.S. price on bin Laden's head which currently stands at $50 million.

The voice says the upcoming transfer of sovereignty to a transitional Iraqi government is "an overt trick to anesthetize the people and abort the militant resistance." The voice says it will not deceive the true mujaheddin of the sons of Iraq. A CIA spokesman says the new 20-plus minute audio tape is being analyzed to see if it really is the voice of bin Laden -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, David Ensor, live in Washington, thanks David.

The president didn't say it yesterday on Arab TV but today President Bush apologized for the Iraqi prison abuse at the hands of the U.S. soldiers.

Here's CNN's Senior White House Correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the Rose Garden with Jordan's King Abdullah, the president delivered the direct apology missing from earlier efforts to quiet Arab outrage.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I told him I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners and the humiliation suffered by their families.

KING: King Abdullah called the abuses heinous crimes but said he trusted Mr. Bush's promise to find and punish those responsible.

KING ABDULLAH, JORDAN: And we hope that will happen very quickly and that, you know, it doesn't reflect on the morals, the values that the United States stands for.

KING: The president dismissed Democratic calls for Defense Secretary Rumsfeld to resign but, a day after chastising Mr. Rumsfeld in private, Bush did make clear he believed the Pentagon wrongly kept him in the dark about the scope of the abuses.

BUSH: And I told him I should have known about the pictures and the report.

KING: Critical air of support in public but sources tell CNN the Jordanian delegation described the impact in the Arab world as devastating and the emergence of more pictures will only add to the diplomatic challenge.

BUSH: It's a stain on our country's honor and our country's reputation. I fully understand that.

KING: The negative headlines in the Arab world come as the president faces image problems at home as well. Forty-nine percent of Americans now approve of how Mr. Bush is handling his job, down from 60 percent in a Gallup poll in January and just 42 percent approve of how Mr. Bush is handling Iraq, down 20 points since the campaign year began.

Democrat John Kerry seized on Mr. Bush's statements that he did not receive critical information about the abuses.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As president, I will not be the last to know what is going on in my command.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: John King joins us now. John, how concerned is the White House about these poll numbers? Are they seeing a shift to John Kerry?

KING: They are not seeing a shift to John Kerry. That is the most significant part of the poll numbers, Anderson. Yes, the president's disapproval rating when it comes to Iraq is going up. Fewer Americans support what the president is doing in Iraq.

So far the administration has not seen any shift in terms of the horse race numbers over to John Kerry and, in fact, the president still has an advantage over John Kerry when voters are asked who do you trust more to deal with Iraq, President Bush or Senator John Kerry? So, the president's numbers are getting worse. So far, Senator Kerry has not benefited emphasis on so far.

COOPER: Interesting. John King at the White House, thanks John.

Donald Rumsfeld kept a low profile today canceling a speaking engagement to prepare for his appearance before the Senate and House Armed Services Committees tomorrow and he is expected tomorrow to feel the full blast of outrage from lawmakers on both sides of the political aisle.

CNN's Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the latest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The morning's "Washington Post" brought fresh pictures of the abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison. A female soldier from the 372nd MP Company holds a lease attached to a naked prisoner. Other unclothed prisoners are seen shackled to the cells with hoods or women's underwear over their heads.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: The actions of the soldiers in those photos are totally unacceptable.

MCINTYRE: It was left to Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz to deliver the denouncement at a speech in Philadelphia that was to be given by his embattled boss.

Sources say Donald Rumsfeld skipped the appearance to prepare for the grilling he's about to get from angry members of Congress, especially Democrats who are increasingly calling for him to step down.

SEN. TOM HARKIN (D), IOWA: I still believe for the benefit of our country, our nation, our honor that he has to resign and he has to go. Nothing I think less will suffice.

MCINTYRE: Senators are particularly miffed that the day the pictures were about to hit the air waves, Rumsfeld failed to mention the abuse in closed door hearings on Capitol Hill.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: Mr. Rumsfeld has been engaged in a cover-up from the start on this issue and continues to be so.

MCINTYRE: But even as President Bush admitted unhappiness that he too was kept in the dark about the gravity of the abuse, he says he won't fire Rumsfeld.

BUSH: He's an important part of my cabinet and he'll stay in my cabinet.

MCINTYRE: And some Republicans went so far as to suggest Rumsfeld's detractors were defeatists.

REP. TOM DELAY (R), MAJORITY LEADER: Calling for Secretary Rumsfeld's resignation is as bad as saying the war is unwinnable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld is described as upbeat and anxious to tell his side of the story by Republican Senators who had breakfast with him this morning. He's said to have a rational explanation for how he handled the crisis and seems to be convinced that once he tells that side of the story the calls for his head will die down -- Anderson.

COOPER: It's going to be a fascinating hearing. Jamie McIntyre thanks very much.

We're going to have a quick flashback for you right now. The last secretary of defense to resign was Les Aspin. That was back in 1993. You may remember he denied a request for tanks by a U.S. commander in Somalia. After 18 Americans died in a firefight, Aspin admitted his mistake and resigned under pressure. Well, another American hostage in Iraq, a family sees their missing son for the first time. We're going to have their story coming up.

Plus, what can drive ordinary people to commit unspeakable acts and could you become a torturer? You might be surprised by the answer.

Plus, on a lighter note, the high price of losing weight, some low cost alternatives to those pricey fad diets, all that ahead.

First your picks, the most popular stories on cnn.com right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, since the wave of hostage taking began last month in Iraq, dozens of people from a variety of countries have been grabbed. Today, another American was taken an Iraqi American and his wife and three young sons are pleading for his safe return, their story from CNN's Adrian Baschuk.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADRIAN BASCHUK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This mother can only watch her captive son on TV.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was kidnapped and I call upon the Muslim association to interfere.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back in Denver, the man's horrified family is pleading for his release.

BASCHUK: Aban Elias' frustrated brother watches himself make the case for a Muslim-Iraqi born U.S. citizen to be freed.

KAZWAN ELIAS, HOSTAGE'S BROTHER: We are very surprised because I mean he's Muslim. He does his prayers and he fasts month of Ramadan.

BASCHUK: Aban Elias is a father of three young sons. He left Iraq at age seven and grew up in Abu Dhabi. At 18, he enrolled at Denver's Metropolitan State College, then worked as a civil engineer for Colorado's Department of Transportation for five years before moving back to the United Arab Emirates. He returned to Iraq just after the fall of Saddam.

ELIAS: We always had it in the back of our mind to just go back one day and see where we were born and just to help the people.

BASCHUK: Elias owned a gravel factory and hoped to turn a big profit by securing civil contracts.

ELIAS: He knows it's going to take like a couple or three years but he was willing to, you know, take that risk.

BASCHUK: The risk was not paying off, no contracts yet. Now his family waits for a phone call from the State Department but so far they've only heard from a sympathetic member of Congress and various media outlets.

ELIAS: Everybody got the story.

BASCHUK: Elias' mother wants her son's captives to hear her plea in Arabic.

"Please for God's sake be kind to him" she says. "He has three kids and nothing to do with politics."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASCHUK: Now a big question in this story is how could a Muslim Iraqi-born Arabic-speaking man be taken hostage in Iraq? Well, his mother who was in Baghdad recently blames his car. She says that she warned him to stay off the streets because he was driving around in a new Jeep Cherokee SUV, a dead giveaway, she warned him, that he was an American citizen -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, Adrian Baschuk in Denver thanks very much.

Today, a dramatic battle in the Iraqi city of Najaf between U.S. forces and Iraqi insurgents, the American base there has come under intense mortar fire in the last few hours.

CNN's Jane Arraf is in Najaf witnessing the battle under fire herself. She joins us by phone. Jane, what's the latest?

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (via telephone): Anderson, there's been sort of an unnatural calm since the U.S. responded by dropping a 500-pound bomb from an F-16 on a mortar position just before there had been intense mortar fire.

We're in a bunker with sandbags. Now this place, this U.S. base in Najaf, comes under mortar attack nightly but today it appeared to be a response to the U.S. taking over the governor's office in Najaf. This was simultaneous with political officials announcing the appointment of a new governor that they were installing here in Najaf.

Now engagements as well with U.S. forces and throughout members of the militia, they say they killed more than 50 of them. They've been waiting for a response and this appeared to be it -- Anderson.

COOPER: What is the situation with Muqtada al-Sadr? I know he's not in Najaf itself but is the U.S. actually planning on moving against him anytime soon?

ARRAF: He's believed to be in Kufa, which is adjoining and has an ancient mosque. Now, it's an interesting situation, Anderson. They started out this series of dramatic events about a month ago, you'll remember, with Muqtada al-Sadr seizing control and, I don't now if you can hear me over this tank behind me, but seizing control of Najaf, Karbala and other cities.

Just after that the U.S. vowed to kill or capture him. We haven't heard a lot of those direct threats anymore. In fact, what they're doing is a two-pronged approach, military pressure and a political approach as well.

So, Anderson, I'm just waiting for the tank to go by but we have not heard threats lately to kill or capture him. They are adopting a multi-faceted approach at the moment -- Anderson.

COOPER: Jane, you've been doing remarkable work all day under fire. Thank you very much for joining us tonight, thanks Jane. Stay safe.

To give you an idea of just how tense the situation is there in Najaf and the danger Jane Arraf is facing, take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARRAF (voice-over): (Unintelligible), Jane. Do you see us? Can you hear us?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Earlier today she was making a call, getting ready to do a live shot. Bullets were flying, as you see. She kept her cool but definitely a dangerous situation. As we said, we hope she stays safe.

Major drug indictment, that story tops our look at news "Cross Country" right now. U.S. authorities indict eight accused members of a Colombian drug cartel suspected of supplying more than half of the cocaine that enters the U.S. Rewards of up to $5 million each will be offered for information leading to their arrest and conviction.

Tampa, Florida now, life and death battle, Governor Jeb Bush files an appeal after a judge today threw out a law that Bush used to order a severely brain damaged woman be kept alive. Terri Schiavo (ph) has been in a vegetative state for 14 years now. Her husband says she wouldn't want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that.

In Boston, accused pedophile priest defrocked. The Vatican has kicked out this man, Paul Shanley, accused -- well kicked him out of the priesthood. Shanley was a key figure in the sex abuse scandal of the Archdiocese of Boston.

Houston now, Lea Fastow sentenced. The wife of former Enron finance chief Andrew Fastow pleads guilty to a misdemeanor charge of filing a false tax return, tax form, and is sentenced to a year in prison.

McAlister, Oklahoma, juror replaced. A juror in the state trial of Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols had a heart attack today and was replaced by an alternate. The juror is expected to make a full recovery. Nichols is serving a life sentence on federal charges. State prosecutors are seeking the death penalty. That's a look at stories "Cross Country" right now.

The cost of being skinny is skyrocketing, no doubt about it. All those low carb, no carb diets sound good but are they breaking your bank? We're going to have a low cost alternative ahead. Also tonight, prosecutors say lust and greed drove a woman to poison her husband with antifreeze, a remarkable story. We're going to look into that case going on in Georgia right now.

And a little later, a lawyer in Portland is being held by the FBI. Was he involved in Madrid rail bombings? We'll get the latest in a live update.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, a recent Neilson survey says that more than 17 percent of Americans are currently on a low carb diet. They must be the rich ones because diets are not just hard to keep, they're often hard to pay for.

CNN Medical Correspondent Dr. Elizabeth Cohen explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Blueberries, salmon, asparagus, sea bass, goat cheese, can you afford to go on a low carb diet?

PHIL LEMPERT: There's no question that if you're going low carb you got to have a lot of money.

COHEN (on camera): We decided to go to a grocery store to see how much it costs to go on the South Beach Diet, one of the most popular low carb diets.

(voice-over): Here's just part of the shopping list for one day's meal plan. Many recipes call for berries. These are $4 a box. This London broil will set you back nearly $10. Asparagus is $3.50 a pound, peppers $4 a pound.

When you break it all down, one shopping experts says going on South Beach or Atkins costs nearly $100 a week for one person, double what most Americans spend on groceries and that doesn't even include the prepared foods that are on the market. This Atkins chocolate bar costs $2.50.

Supermarket expert Phil Lempert says low carb diets don't have to be expensive. One hint buy frozen blueberries instead of fresh.

LEMPERT: And keep in mind the frozen ones are actually packed at the time of freshness, so you're going to get a fresher tasting product. You could save ten, 20, 30, even 40 percent.

COHEN: Here are some other tips. Replace fish and red meat with chicken. Buy frozen fish and vegetables. Buy unpackaged lettuce instead of the kind in the bag. And, of course, you don't have to go on a special diet to lose weight. Exercise is cheap and so is good old-fashioned just eating less.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, there's always that.

We're going to check some stories right now from around the world in tonight's "Up Link." Let's take a look.

A Libyan court sentences five Bulgarian nurses and one Palestinian doctor to death by firing squad for deliberately infecting more than 400 Libyan children with the AIDS virus in 1999 using HIV tainted blood products at a hospital. The health workers say they're innocent. Their lawyers say they are going to appeal.

Yelwa, Nigeria, massacre death toll, a Muslim leader says 630 bodies have been buried after an attack by Christian militia on Sunday.

In Russia now, sex slaves rescued. Two Russian girls have been rescued after being kept in this cellar where they were beaten and raped for three and a half years resulting in three pregnancies. The girls were 14 and 17 when they were kidnapped.

A 53-year-old man has been charged. The girls say after three years their captor took them into town for short periods of time and in town they passed a note to a stranger that led to their rescue, unbelievable.

In Washington now, tough stance on Cuba, President Bush is promising to try to end Cuban President Fidel Castro's rule. Bush says he will increase anti-Castro propaganda and help dissidents. That's a quick look at stories around the world in the "Up Link" tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Ordinary people driven to torture. Placed in their situation would you do the same?

And we'll take you to the so-called death zone where a single bad judgment could cost you your life, 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time now to "Reset" our top stories.

A recorded message attributed to Osama bin Laden offers gold to anyone who kills Coalition Provisional Authority Chief Paul Bremer or other top U.S. and U.N. officers in Iraq, as well as the U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan. Intelligence officials haven't yet confirmed the voice is bin Laden.

President Bush is showing confidence in Donald Rumsfeld today calling him "a really good secretary of defense," a vote of confidence. Democratic Congressman Charles Rangel today said Congress should impeach Rumsfeld if the president doesn't fire him over the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal. John Kerry today reiterated his call for Rumsfeld to resign. Kerry also said if he is elected president he wouldn't be the last to know about the actions of U.S. forces.

The FDA won't let the morning after pill be sold over the counter for now. The FDA says it could change its mind if the makers of the emergency contraceptive show evidence that teens younger than 16 can safely use it without a doctor's guidance.

(BREAKING NEWS)

COOPER: I want to get you up to date now on some breaking news, a story that is breaking at this hour. The FBI has taken a Portland, Oregon man into custody based on information from Spanish authorities he may, and we say may, have been involved in the Madrid rail bombings. It is breaking news.

Let's get the latest details now from CNN Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena. Kelli, what do you know?

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, you're right. Sources do tell CNN that, as you said, may be a U.S. connection to the March 11 bombings in Madrid.

FBI agents took into custody a Portland, Oregon lawyer based on information from Spanish authorities that he may have been involved in that attack. Now, law enforcement sources say Brandon Mayfield is being held as a material witness and that basically means that he can be held secretly while not being charged.

According to those sources, his fingerprint was found on a plastic bag with bomb-related material, which was connected to the Madrid attack. Sources describe him as a Muslim convert.

They say that he's been under 24/7 surveillance for some time and he just happened to represent one of the chief defendants in the so- called Portland Seven terror case in a prior custody battle.

The members of that alleged Portland cell pled guilty last year of plotting to fight for the Taliban against the U.S. in Afghanistan but there's no suggestion at this point that there's any relation between that group and what happened in Spain -- Anderson.

COOPER: Kelli, you say he's been under surveillance for some time.

ARENA: Yes, that's our understanding. That the Spanish authorities passed on information that law enforcement decided to surveil him for some time to see if that would lead to other individuals or leads and for whatever reason decided to move in on him today and take him into custody.

COOPER: Thanks very much, Kelli.

It seems everyone who knows the soldiers accused of humiliating and torturing Iraqi prisoners says the same thing, it must be a mistake, they say. It's not in their nature. It's not the person they know. Yet the pictures tell a different story. So why then would someone turn from soldier to sadist? John Conroy, my next guest, knows all too well. He's the author of "Unspeakable Acts, Ordinary People, the Dynamics of Torture." He's a staff writer for the "Chicago Reader." I spoke with him earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

When you look at these pictures from Iraq, I think everyone who looks at them is sort of stunned, horrified by them, and you think to yourself who could do this? Who is capable of this sort of thing? How do you answer that?

JOHN CONROY, AUTHOR, "UNSPEAKABLE ACTS, ORDINARY PEOPLE": I think most of us are capable of it. I think that...

COOPER: You or I, anyone in the wrong circumstances or the right circumstances is capable of abuse, of torture?

CONROY: I think so. I say this both on the basis of anecdotal evidence from former torturers who I interviewed during the course of working on my book, but also the scientific studies have been done, most famous of which is Stanley Milgram's study in which he had people coming in, they're introduced to an authority figure who told them to shock people who gave the wrong answer to a question. And they were more than 60 percent of the people who came in were willing to go all the way to the end of the scale where it's a dangerous, severe shock even though the person was pleading not to be shocked as long as there's an authority figure in the room.

Now, imagine the volunteers in that experiment had no -- nothing bound them to that authority figure. So imagine what it would be like if you've been trained to obey, and now you're responding to people whom you respect.

COOPER: We've got some footage from this Stanford prison experiment that was done back in 1971, by psychologist Philip Zimbardo. I want to show a little bit of that. Tell us basically what happened in this experiment?

CONROY: Basically Zimbardo set up a mock prison and he recruited his students to take part in this. And they were assigned somewhat randomly to be jailers and the jailed. And he intended it to be a two-week experiment, and he had to stop it within six days, because the brutality that the guards took on, the persona that they took on was so potentially damaging to the inmate students that he couldn't go on.

COOPER: And there's an element not only in that experiment, but also in these pictures of Iraq of humiliation. And humiliating these persons or these prisoners seems to play a big role. Why is humiliation so important?

CONROY: You know, there's a real interesting book by a woman named Gitta Sereny called "Into that Darkness" in which she interviews Franz Stangl who was the commandant at Treblinka. And she asks him, if you were going to kill these Jews anyway, what was the purpose of humiliating them? And he responds, well, we humiliated them in order to be able to kill them. In other words, if you dehumanize someone, it's much easier to torture them, it's much easier to regard them as something less than you are. And not your equal. And a member of this out group. This torturable class that I argue is present in almost every society.

COOPER: And you know, I think one of the things that also caught a lot of people's attention about these pictures in Iraq is seeing a woman or women in these pictures engaged with these prisoners in the same way that the men were.

CONROY: I think that what you're seeing really is the progressive nature of the American military system, which has moved women into positions where they weren't back in the Vietnam days or I think we would have seen the same thing.

COOPER: So in order to turn you or to turn me, or to turn someone viewing at home into someone willing to commit torture, what does it take?

CONROY: Well, it helps if you're a member of a military organization, you've been trained to obey. It helps if the person whom you're supposed to torture is regarded as someone less than you. Now, the other thing is that the society has to give you permission to do this. And that permission, I think, came from, in this case, the Defense department has already said we are going to deprive people of sleep. We're going to hood people. We're going to -- all of these things which in other instances amount to torture.

COOPER: If it's a group mentality, a group thing, but an individual standing up and saying no, I'm not going to do this, you all shouldn't do this, that could make a difference?

CONROY: One person standing up, reminding people of their core values, reminding people that they're off course here, can change the situation.

COOPER: John Conroy, it's a fascinating subject. You've written about it a lot. Thanks very much for being on the program.

CONROY: Thank you very much, Anderson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: One person can make a difference. The pressure is mounting on Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to take responsibility for the Iraqi prison abuse and resign. Tomorrow he's going to tell his story on Capitol Hill in front of the Senate and House armed services committees. Should Rumsfeld pay the price for the scandal? A lingering question tonight on many lips. CNN's Jeanne Meserve reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Demands that heads should roll for the alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib prison from some publications, pundits and Democratic politicians.

SEN. TOM HARKIN (D), IOWA, For our country, I believe Mr. Rumsfeld has to resign.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA: I am calling for Mr. Rumsfeld's resignation.

DONALD RUMSFELD, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: Ladies and gentlemen, the commander-in-chief.

MESERVE: President Bush says Rumsfeld will stay. That is consistent with his reputation for loyalty and his history.

THOMAS MANN, SENIOR FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: If you look at the major traumatic events during his presidency. The 9/11 attacks in New York and Washington, and the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, there was no acknowledgment of responsibility and certainly no one in his administration was asked to pay a price.

MESERVE: But a new Gallup poll shows public approval of the president's handling of Iraq tumbling in the last two weeks. And the numbers may not yet reflect the full impact of the prison abuse story. Tossing Rumsfeld or some other top official might stop the slide, or it could give the president's political opponents new ammunition to say his policies have failed.

ALLAR LICHTMAN, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: If he fires someone now, it's going to look like he did so under pressure from the press, and under pressure from the Democrats. If he was going to fire anyone he should have done it yesterday before the cascade of pressure began.

MESERVE: Ultimately, whether higher-ups stay or go may not depend on political calculations or rhetoric, but on the facts, of who knew and condoned what happened at Abu Ghraib. Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: As always, we'd like to hear from you, we'd like to know what you think. Today's buzz is this, should Donald Rumsfeld resign? Log on to CNN.com/360. Cast your vote. We'll have results at the end of the program.

At the White House today a rare move. Something most of us, especially the president of the United States, hates to do, apologize. Mr. Bush saying he was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners. That's a quote. Tonight the raw politics of saying you're sorry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I regret deeply...

JIMMY CARTER, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I take full responsibility...

BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I made a mistake, said that I regretted it.

COOPER (voice-over): Like most of us, presidents don't like to apologize. Since Richard Nixon's resignation speech in 1974, most have had to at one time or another. Jimmy Carter took full responsibility after the failed rescue mission of hostages in Iran in 1980. Ronald Reagan took the rap for being stubborn in the Iran/Contra scandal.

RONALD REAGAN, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But there's nothing I can say that would make the situation right.

DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Traditionally American presidents don't like to say they're sorry. When they do, it will only be that line that gets plastered all over the world.

COOPER: The modern-day president, who did it more than most, Bill Clinton.

CLINTON: And never again must we be shy in the face of the evidence.

COOPER: In 1998, he apologized for failing to help prevent the genocide in Rwanda that left more than 800,000 dead. But the mother of all apologies was on national television.

CLINTON: Indeed, I did have a relationship with Miss Lewinsky that was not appropriate.

COOPER: For a president, an apology is the political tool of last resort.

BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: The reason for apologizing is always one thing. Stop the political damage.

COOPER: And sometimes it works. In 1961, President Kennedy went on TV to take full responsibility for the Bay of Pigs fiasco. His ratings immediately shot up eleven points. But it doesn't always work out that way.

SCHNEIDER: The downside, of course, is it risks making the president look weak. A president never wants to look weak.

COOPER: Apologizing without looking weak, that's a challenge steeped in raw politics.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And here's a quick 360 news note for you. The recent bad news out of Iraq doesn't seem to be hurting President Bush's election campaign cash flow. New records released by his campaign show so far he's raised a record $200 million. That's more than twice the almost $95 million he collected in the 2000 race. Senator John Kerry has raised at least $112 million. Twice as much as former vice president Al Gore did in 2000.

Well, a woman accused of a shocking murder. Did she actually use antifreeze to poison her own husband to death? The story coming up.

Also, testing the limits of endurance and defying the laws of gravity. Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes you extreme climbing.

And a little later, tired of all the yammering about the finale of "Friends?" We are. Enough already. It's overkill.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time for some "Justice Served" now. The murder trial that is gripping Georgia, did a woman poison her husband with antifreeze? And if so, was he her only victim.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Prosecutors say Lynn Turner's motives were money and sex. They say she urged her husband, police officer Glen Turner, to make her the beneficiary of his $100,000 life insurance policy, then killed him by feeding him antifreeze. And they say she was having an affair with firefighter Randy Thompson.

But Lynn Turner tells another story. She says, in the early morning hours of March 3, 1995, she found her husband hallucinating, believing he could fly. And that whatever he drank, he drank on his own.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While they were in the basement he said he was thirsty, picked up a jar that had liquid in it and started to drink it. She stopped him

COOPER: Neighbors testified about Lynn Turner's strange behavior before and after her husband's death. The defense says the case has more rumor and gossip than evidence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard her say, I wish they'd hurry up so we could get the hell out of here.

COOPER: Whatever the final verdict of this case, Lynn Turner's legal troubles may not be over. Although she's not been charged, authorities say she is the prime suspect in the 2001 death of her alleged lover, Randy Johnson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Covering the chilling case for us tonight, Court TV anchor Lisa Bloom. Lisa good to see you tonight.

LISA BLOOM, COURT TV: Hi.

COOPER: Took them nine years to bring charges against this woman. Why so long?

BLOOM: That's right. Well there's two men in the state of Georgia, in its entire history that have died from antifreeze poisoning. Both of them were in love with Lynn Turner, one of them died in 1995, one of them died in 2001. And after the 2001 death, the mothers of these two men got together and said, this can't be a coincidence. Two young men dying of natural causes in their early 30s. Both of them lovers with Lynn Turner. They pushed for an investigation. They got the toxicology reports and they found out that both of them had ethylene glycol in their system, that's the active ingredient in antifreeze.

COOPER: And one witness testified that this woman, Lynn, had asked her about antifreeze and its effect on cats?

BLOOM: That's right. Today, we saw that on Court TV on my show on Court TV.

COOPER: Oh, a little plug there.

BLOOM: 11:00 on Court TV. And that she was at an animal shelter and she says out of the blue to this animal shelter employee, oh by the way, does antifreeze kill cats? I know it can kill dogs.

Well, this woman saw the case on television. She came forward and reported it. Now she testified at the trial.

COOPER: She is not charged with the other death of her boyfriend.

BLOOM: Not yet.

COOPER: Not yet. That may very well happen.

BLOOM: Right.

COOPER: Is testimony about her boyfriend's death going to be admissible in this trial?

BLOOM: It is admissible. The judge has said it's a similar transaction so it's coming in. And what the judge is saying there is look coincidences they don't happen like this. Two men dead of antifreeze poisoning both of them associated with her. Even though she's only formally charged with the death of her husband, the death of the boyfriend is coming in.

COOPER: So the defense, how are they handling all this?

BLOOM: They're challenging everything. She asked about a cat. That has nothing to do with human beings. And ethylene glycol can come from other sources. It can come from many household cleaning products, for example. But the question is, how did it get into the bodies of these two men.

COOPER: And there have only been two deaths in the state of Georgia related to antifreeze?

BLOOM: That's right in the entire history both of them connected to Lynn Turner, her husband and then her boyfriend. That's the best piece of evidence the prosecution has.

COOPER: When is this thing going to go to the jury?

BLOOM: I'd say another week. The judge is moving the case along very quickly. He's even having case on Saturday.

COOPER: Fascinating. All right. Thanks very much. Lisa Bloom, always good to talk to you.

Extreme climbing: surviving the elements at the top of the world. Coming up, get your gear ready, Lisa, we're heading up the mountain. A Mt. Everest-like attitude with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Also tonight, are you sick of hearing about those friends? It's the finale tonight I hear. We are. It's our overkill tonight. All that apart.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, after days of side show stunts our senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta turns to new challenges that test the limits of human endurance. Tonight a trip into thin air with extreme climbers who soar to the skies without supplemental oxygen. Dr. Gupta is here with us tonight to talk about life beyond the limits. Good to see you again.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you. Really interesting stuff. Ed Viesturs, he's one of the world's greatest mountain climbers. He reaches the heights of human endurance, just make your head spin quite literally, leaves us all sort of holding our breath in amazement.

What happens, at higher elevations the body gets used to lower levels of oxygen and the simple act of breathing becomes very arduous. I actually put myself to the test here to see what it would feel like of just half the altitude of where Viesturs goes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): This is a view most people only see from an airplane window.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; We are climbing past 24,000 feet.

GUPTA: From the comfort and safety of a pressurized cabin. Climber Ed Veisturs prefers high altitude in thin air. He's one of only a handful of people in the world to climb 26,000 foot peaks without the use of supplemental oxygen.

(on camera): Most of us will never know what it really feels like to be at altitude. So we're here in a hyperbaric chamber which is going to simulate high altitudes. It's the Colorado Center for Altitude, Medicine and Physiology.

(voice-over): Here researchers simulate the mountain environment where weaponize and other climbers venture. I was wired up to monitor the oxygen levels in my brain during exercise while they simulated a rapid ascent to 14,110 feet, the top of Pike's Peak. As we got higher my blood saturation levels dropped, my ears popped and my breathing became more labored. Because I didn't have time to slowly adapt to the changes in pressure after just 10 minutes I was already showing signs of acute hypoxia.

(on camera): I feel a little bit light headed now. I mean, things are spinning a little bit more around me. I'm not seeing spots or anything. I was going to ask you another question but I forgot what the question was before I asked you.

(voice-over): Descending just 2,000 feet, I felt immensely better. If I had stayed up there for a few more hours I could have developed a severe headache, nausea and extreme fatigue. Some people are just better suited for climbing. I was told I had climber potential.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: It took us eight minute to get to the top of Pike's Peak in that chamber. They measure my blood saturation with oxygen. Typically it's 100, mine dropped into the 70s. If it dropped into the 60s I would have been in big trouble and you can see how quickly that can happen. I was just a few minutes from there.

COOPER: So, at something like 14,000 feet or so you actually don't think as clearly as you were thinking before?

GUPTA: Lots of things happen. Your vision can become blurry. You get the headache sometimes, and your judgment can become clouded which is very significant for these climbers who climb without oxygen. Sort of develop the superman phenomena where you think you can do things that you really can't.

COOPER: This is why they want you to acclimatize, spend some days on the mountain before making the summit.

GUPTA: Right. And use oxygen. Ed Viesturs is a very rare breed of people who won't use oxygen, most people. And ED says that whenever he climbs with other climbers when he's taking people up he'll use oxygen because he doesn't want his judgment impaired at all.

COOPER: And your special Sunday night, 9:00?

GUPTA: 9:00. All the science behind all the stuff.

DOBBS: The blockheads, lying on the bed of nails, all sorts of things.

(CROSSTALK)

GUPTA: The whole thing.

COOPER: All right, Sanjay, good to see you.

Let's go for some lighter stuff, check on some pop news in tonight's "Current." Model, Naomi Campbell, has won a lawsuit against a British paper that published photos of her leaving a narcotics anonymous meeting. The judge said they invaded her privacy. Actually in England they say privacy. The paper's editor said quote, "This is a very good day for lying, drug abusing prima donnas who want to have their cake with the media and shamelessly guzzle it with Cristol champagne." The guy is begging for a slander suit. Naomi Campbell is not going to like an implication that she eats cake.

Walter Cronkite is going on MTV. The 87-year-old newsman hosts a show about young people looking for jobs. It airs later this month. Cronkite will explain issues like underemployment and outsourcing and hopefully what all this forshizzle (ph) business is about once and for all. Walter Cronkite is totally crunk if you ask me.

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is suing a company for making a bobblehead doll of him. The company says as Governor Schwarzenegger is a public figure no different than any other politician. Which I suppose means we can look forward to the bobblehead Doll of the Wyoming Governor Dave Freudenthal. That would be a big seller.

Later tonight, after 10 years, and 236 episodes, NBC's "Friends" is bidding farewell. It's going to be one of those very special episode type deals. We've been bombarded with the news that "Friends" would end for nearly a year now. So we're calling tonight's episode the one where "Friends" turn into "Overkill."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Ready or not, it's time to let go of "Friends." And while parting may be such sweet sorrow, fanfare over the finale has been overwhelming. Two hours of "Dateline." An hour on "Oprah." And countless mentions just about everywhere else on television.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A farewell to Monica and Chandler and Phoebe.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What are we going to do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean this is an era coming to an end.

COOPER: And in print. Most of us don't take this much trouble to say good-bye to our real friends. But let's face it, Ross, Rachel, Chandler, Monica, Joey and Phoebe weren't just any friends. Offscreen they were rich, successful friends.

MATTHEW PERRY, "FRIENDS": So we thought we'd throw you a little going away party.

COOPER: Just look at the numbers. They were on the air for a decade and in the top 10 for nearly the entire run. The actors who played the friends eventually earned $1 million each per episode. And they've been good friends to NBC and Warner Brothers, as well. Though the network won't make predictions there's speculation that more than 50 million of "Friends" friends will tune in to tonight's finale. NBC is charging $2 million for every 30-second spot in the show. And some estimates say Warner Brothers, which like CNN is owned by Time Warner, will pocket $2 billion in syndication sales. In just a couple of hours we'll know if there's a future for Ross and Rachel, if Chandler and Monica will move to the burbs. It will take a little longer to find out if Joey will go the distance or go the way of "After M.A.S.H." And if you're not suffering from "Friends" finale "Overkill," the DVD of tonight's final episode will be out in just five days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Can't wait for that.

Coming up wearing the liberal label, we'll take that to "The Nth Degree."

And tomorrow, an HIV positive man charged with sexual assault. Accused of intentionally spreading the virus to possibly 170 people. That's tomorrow.

First today's "Buzz," should Donald Rumsfeld resign?

What do you think? Log on to cnn.com/360 right now. Cast your votes and we'll have the results in just moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Time now for "The Buzz." Earlier we asked should Donald Rumsfeld resign? Eighty-five percent of you said, yes, 15 percent of you said, no.

Not a scientific poll, but certainly, it is your "Buzz."

Finally tonight taking the L-word to "The Nth Degree." The L-word we're talking about is liberal. And if you're a Democrat you most definitely don't want to be wearing that label. According to a new report by the liberal think tank, the Center for American Progress the word liberal is, "Associated closely with the well meaning, admirable, but ultimately weak, naive, and ineffective approach to politics and governance."

So what's a liberal to do?

Well, they suggest become a progressive. See, according to the report, progressives are, "overwhelming associated with positive attributes."

But is this going to get out of hand?

Good-bye liberal arts education, hello progressive arts education.

And will a liberal helping a mashed potato become a progressive helping a spuds?

We still think there is a place for the word liberal, we promise we'll be conservative in it's use. That's 360 for tonight. I'm Anderson Cooper, thanks for watching. "PAULA ZAHN NOW" is next.

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