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American Morning
Prisoner Abuse Scandal; Al Qaeda in U.S. Prisons
Aired May 06, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to Thursday. Seven o'clock in New York. Soledad is out this week. Heidi Collins filling in for us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you.
HEMMER: Nice spring color there.
COLLINS: I'm trying, you know?
Other stories we are following this morning. President Bush is losing ground in some new polls.
Six months before the election the president is finding himself about where his father was in 1992.
We'll get a political damage assessment in just a couple of minutes on that.
HEMMER: Also those poll numbers -- the same polling numbers -- should be good news for Senator John Kerry, but instead, he's taking heat from some bedrock Democratic supports.
Donna Brazile in a moment with some powerful criticism of the Kerry campaign from Democratic quarters. We'll get to that as well today.
COLLINS: Jack Cafferty now.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
The feeding frenzy on the part of the media and members of Congress concerning the Iraqi prisoner story only gets bigger by the day.
It's probably worth remembering that it was the Army that uncovered this information and the photographs. It wasn't any great journalistic coup by the news media.
Nevertheless, the sound and the fury over this whole thing continues to seemingly focus on Donald Rumsfeld. We'll take a closer look in a few minutes.
COLLINS: All right, very good. Thanks, Jack.
And we do begin in Iraq this morning where an overnight car bombing left at least seven people dead in central Baghdad, including one U.S. soldier.
The suicide attack taking place near the area that houses the U.S.-led coalition headquarters. The blast shattered windows in nearby businesses. Dozens of people were injured.
And two U.S. soldiers were killed and two others wounded in the Iraqi capitol in a separate explosion. Military officials say the soldiers were killed after an improvised explosive device went off last night.
More photos have been released showing what appear to be U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib Prison.
"The Washington Post" claims the graphic images were among digital photos seized by military investigators looking into conditions at the facility.
At least six soldiers faced criminal charges as a result of the reported mistreatment.
President Bush has asked Congress for $25 billion to help cover military expenses in Iraq and Afghanistan. Critics say the precise cost of next year's operations is not known, and the president is low- balling the amount for political reasons.
And cooler weather and a lot less wind is helping firefighters in southern California contain the raging wildfires there. More than 20,000 acres have now been burned -- at least 14 homes destroyed.
People in Riverside County near Los Angeles have been allowed to go back home, though, but the raging fire in the Lake Elsinor area, about 70 miles from L.A., is still threatening about 1,000 homes there.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: President Bush allowing some of those at the very highest rungs of his administration know that he is not happy about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld testifying tomorrow morning before a Senate committee about the alleged abuse -- has already heard from the president.
To the White House this morning and Dana Bash with more on this for us. Dana, good morning there.
DANA BASH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill, and in public the president is careful to say that he is confident in his defense secretary, but we're told that in a private Oval Office meeting yesterday morning Mr. Bush said to the secretary Donald Rumsfeld that he is not satisfied about the way he was informed about the pictures.
Now, the issue is that he wasn't informed about the pictures, at least not until they aired on CBS News.
Now, that is after the Pentagon, we are told, was negotiating with CBS News for a couple of weeks about airing them.
Still, the president did not know, according to the White House, until he saw them on television.
He also didn't know about a report, a classified report, cataloging the abuses at Abu Ghraib Prison, also until it was in the news.
Now, the fact that the president himself went on Arab television to engage -- personally engage -- in damage control certainly shows that the White House understands that -- a big problem on their hands -- but for a president who prides himself on loyalty and not to expose any internal risks or displeasure with his own people to also allow his staff and let it be known that he scolded his own defense secretary also shows how much the White House understands they need to get out ahead of this, to show that they are trying to reprimand anybody who might have been responsible for any kind of lack in judgment or lack in addressing this issue.
Because they understand that this is a perception problem for them, but also that it could have major ramifications on their policies, of course, in Iraq -- Bill.
HEMMER: Dana Bash, thanks for that.
All eyes on the Hill tomorrow when Secretary Rumsfeld goes there. What can we expect in those hearings?
Ed Henry has a preview in D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rumsfeld will face senators in both parties who are furious about being kept in the dark.
SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R), GEORGIA: He's going to be grilled pretty good about what happened, how it happened, and how far up the chain it looks like it went.
HENRY: Members of the Armed Services panel have a checklist of concerns they're demanding that Rumsfeld address. The top Democrat on the panel, Carl Levin, told CNN he expects a direct apology from Rumsfeld to show the buck stops with the man at the top.
Senators want to know whether enlisted personnel were acting on their own or carrying out orders from higher ups. What role did private contractors play at the prison, and why didn't Rumsfeld tell lawmakers about the controversy last week when he briefed them just hours before CBS aired the graphic abuse photos?
SEN. RICHARD DURKIN (D), ILLINOIS: The secretary testified without even indicating to the members of the Senate that this story existed or was about to be disclosed to the American people. That is unacceptable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Bill, the secretary is facing pressure on another front this morning. Two members of the Armed Services Committee, Senators Ben Nelson and Pat Roberts, are urging the Pentagon to demolish that prison in Iraq. Senator Nelson told CNN that if Rumsfeld does not act on his own he will pass legislation demanding that the Pentagon do so -- Bill.
HEMMER: Ed, that prison is Abu Ghraib. It was a symbol for so many Iraqis under the tyranny of Saddam Hussein in a previous ruling in that country. If you close it down, if you level the place, what does that do for the situation in Iraq today?
HENRY: A growing number of senators in both parties have been telling us in the last 24 hours they believe that this will be a symbolic gesture along the lines of the fall of that statue of Saddam Hussein in the middle of Baghdad last year that would send a clear signal to the international community that those abuses will no longer go on.
HEMMER: Ed Henry, thanks, on Capitol Hill.
Nice to have you here, and welcome to AMERICAN MORNING and CNN, Ed.
HENRY: Thank you.
HEMMER: Here's Heidi.
COLLINS: The situation in Iraq may be one of the reasons behind some erosion of support for President Bush.
A new Gallup poll puts Mr. Bush's job approval rating at 49 percent.
That's down three percentage points in the last two weeks and his lowest approval rating since taking office.
Earlier I spoke with CNN's senior political analyst Bill Schneider and I asked him for his take on these new numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POL. ANALYST: What's happening right now is there are growing questions about Mr. Bush's policies in Iraq, about his stewardship of the economy. Those have been accumulating all year. But, the big problem is Democrats are dismayed because John Kerry hasn't been able to gain much traction out of Mr. Bush's problems.
That's because the White House has raised a lot of questions about Kerry, most voters don't know a great deal about John Kerry right now; the White House has raised questions about whether he's steadfast and steady at a time of great uncertainty, whether he can meet the threat of terrorism with staunch leadership comparable to the presidents.
So while Americans have doubts about President Bush, they're not yet ready at this point to say they put their confidence in the Democrat.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: And right after the break we'll talk more politics with Democratic strategist Donna Brazile.
She says Senator John Kerry's campaign has failed to understand how to navigate one of the most important issues in American politics.
Details on that coming up next.
HEMMER: Almost ten minutes past the hour.
Also in a moment here Donald Rumsfeld ready to testify on Capitol Hill about that prisoner abuse. Could his job be on the line there? We'll talk about that, Heidi.
COLLINS: Plus, wildfires scorch southern California as firefighters help Mother Nature. We'll stay on their side.
HEMMER: Also, the allegation is that Disney is trying to muzzle Michael Moore. Is it just publicity?
We'll have a shot at that in "90-Second Pop" this morning.
Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: There's good news and bad news for John Kerry's presidential campaign.
The good news is the latest Gallup poll showing Senator Kerry has gained ground on the president since mid-April.
The bad news comes from fellow Democrats questioning his commitment to racial diversity.
Democratic strategist Donna Brazile says the absence of African- Americans and Hispanics in key positions could prove to be a fatal flaw in November. And Donna good morning to you. She's also CNN political contributor -- she's joining us this morning from Washington.
Thanks for being here this morning, Donna.
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.
COLLINS: You wrote a column for this week's edition of Capitol Hill newspaper "Roll Call." I want to go ahead and read just a portion of that quickly.
"If the past is indeed prologue, this message has been lost on Sen. John Kerry's campaign, which has failed to understand how to navigate one of the most important issues in American politics: race relations and diversity."
How big a problem are the -- these issues -- for the Kerry campaign, Donna?
BRAZILE: Well, for three weeks I believe the Kerry campaign struggled to find its message on this issue, and what my column attempted to do is to say, look, for 20 years the Democratic Party has broadened its appeal, broadened its base; it has been the most inclusive political party.
The Republicans don't even attempt to even make any involvement of minorities in their campaign.
But, look; this is an opportunity for the Kerry campaign to begin to broaden its appeal -- to have a vision so that everyone in November can turn out.
COLLINS: But Senator Kerry's deputy campaign manager, Marcus Jadotte -- actually says --he is also a black man -- says 20 percent of John Kerry's staff is either black of Hispanic. What do you say to those numbers?
BRAZILE: Well, first of all, Marcus is a great guy; he ran our Florida operation and he did a good job, and too bad the Supreme Court overturned the campaign in 2000.
But this is really not about numbers; it's about the vision. In 2000 we had a record turnout minority -- that's why Al Gore was even able to have a recount in Florida.
What we're attempting this year again is another record turnout of Democrats and Independents and even those Republicans who would like to come over, so it's really about the vision, it's about making sure the campaign is inclusive at all levels so that people feel a way in and a way to help John Kerry win, because ultimately Democrats want to see John Kerry win in the fall.
COLLINS: So then how would you like to see the Kerry campaign respond to these latest criticisms?
BRAZILE: Well, I think that they are putting a lot this behind them now. Mary Beth has taken very affirmative steps to insure that her inner circle, outer circle, expanded circle and the -- of course -- the larger circle is inclusive.
It reflects not just the broad diversity of the Democratic Party, but reflects the country itself. This is a campaign that must, of course, have everyone at the table in order to, you know, ensure victory in the fall.
COLLINS: You know, you talk about division, and you talk about reaching out and really trying to get to the voters.
Some pundits are actually saying that maybe Kerry should turn to BET or TV1 to get this message out. What do you think about that? Do you think it would be effective?
BRAZILE: Well, look, with a tremendous media buy I'm sure he will turn to BET, TV1, Tom Joiner, Tavis Smiley and many others who can help amplify his message.
Reverend Sharpton, Reverend Jackson and those of us who are not reverends. But, look, the good news is that the Kerry campaign I believe is now in a position to really buy time on these stations but also to appeal to some of the national surrogates that they have.
They have a tremendous level of support among members on Capitol Hill and all throughout the country.
Tap into those communities, bring those people in and ensure that we have a platform that the Party can be proud of.
COLLINS: Donna Brazile this morning. Donna, thanks so much -- nice to see you.
BRAZILE: Thank you.
HEMMER: Sixteen minutes past the hour.
This morning cooler weather is helping firefighters get control over several blazes in southern California.
Still though the devastation of that fast-moving flames widespread there.
Ted Rowlands is there for us this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The combination of a weather shift and around the clock work from thousands of firefighters is helping to bring the years first round of California wildfires under control.
Fourteen homes have been destroyed in more than 22,000 acres blackened by six separate fires sine they started last weekend.
The combination of a three-year drought and thousands of dead beetle-infested trees has many people convinced that this is just the beginning of a long fire season ahead.
BILL PETERS, CALIFORNIA FORESTRY DEPARTMENT: There are still over 12 million dead trees in the San Bernardino and San Jacinto mountains. I mean they're just dead.
You know that's drawing gasoline, if you will, waiting to go up.
ROWLANDS: People evacuated from their homes are coming back to dramatically different scenes. This house near the city of Temecula east of Los Angeles was in the middle of the fire zone but was untouched.
People living at the Dorland Mountain Arts Colony are not as lucky. The only thing left of the world-renowned artist's retreat is the charred remains of nine buildings and two cottages.
Lost in the fire are decade's worth of work and numerous antiques, including a 1920s Steinway concert grand piano, which is said to have been played by Russian pianist Sergei Rachmaninoff during visits to the colony.
KAREN PARROTT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DORLAND MTN. ARTS COLONY: Everything gone. It's been a bit to take in.
ROWLANDS: While they believe they have the upper hand, firefighters are expected to keep a very close eye on the two largest fires in the region, both centered in Riverside County.
It is expected, barring any change in the weather, that full containment will be achieved in all of these fires by the end of the week.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Temecula, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: And we have been warned for weeks now -- fire officials saying this seasons first wildfires burned with an intensity usually not seen until late summer -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Still to come this morning, more on the unfolding scandal over prisoner abuse as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld prepares to testify on Capitol Hill.
And a judge says no to Martha Stewart. Where does her case go from here? Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right welcome back everybody. Martha Stewart rejected yesterday by her judge and how Lea Fastow fares before hers today?
Good question. That and more in the market preview.
Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" here, first check with you today.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good to see you.
HEMMER: What's happening with Ms. Stewart?
SERWER: Well, it looks like we're headed toward June 17, Bill. That will be the sentencing hearing where Martha Stewart and Peter Bacanovic will find out how much time they will spend incarcerated.
Yesterday, a judge denied their request for a new trial. They wanted a new trial because they said a juror lied about his background. The judge said it's not material. And so it looks like we're moving forward on that story.
I saw Martha Stewart yesterday at the Waldorf Astoria at the National Magazine awards. I nodded to her and she kind of looked down at her food
(LAUGHTER)
SERWER: But she's putting up, you know, a good face of it. Going and doing her business in the magazine world.
(CROSSTALK)
Every morning I come in and nod at Jack and he's...
HEMMER: Was this lunch or dinner?
SERWER: It was a lunch.
HEMMER: Yes?
SERWER: Awards lunch yesterday.
Let's talk about Lea Fastow. Well, let's talk about K-Mart, actually, first, because of course there's a connection to Martha Stewart.
One year out of bankruptcy today, and the stock has done very, very well.
I only wish I'd bought it. Actually, I'm probably not allowed to.
But, it's up about $15 you can see here over the past year. Not out of the woods yet by any means, but.
All right now, let's go to Lea Fastow and we'll talk about her because this morning she will be facing a judge, as well.
She will be pleading guilty to one misdemeanor charge. Remember, she had all kinds of felony charges reduced to a single misdemeanor count, a tax charge, and she is looking at less than 12 months in jail. So interesting stuff on that front as well.
HEMMER: The maximum she gets is a year.
SERWER: That's right, yes, that's going to be less.
HEMMER: She'd get probation?
SERWER: She'll probably -- no -- she'll probably get to do some time served at home later in the sentence.
HEMMER: OK, tomorrow is the jobs report and we're all waiting on that on Wall Street.
SERWER: Yes, absolutely. Yesterday, though, let's talk about that.
Kind of a down day, some really directionless trading here back and forth, and this morning the futures are looking a little bit soft because people are scared about those oil prices. We're looking at $40 a barrel now.
HEMMER: I'm going to look at my food.
SERWER: Yes, OK. I have that effect on people. And thank you, Jack, for pointing that out.
CAFFERTY: I was just -- you know inquiring minds want to know that.
COLLINS: I would never do that to you, Andy.
SERWER: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: I would stand up and shake your hand.
SERWER: All right, good deal.
COLLINS: Time now for the Cafferty Files and the "Question of the Day" from Jack.
Still talking about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal.
CAFFERTY: Yes, more specifically Donald Rumsfeld and what his future may hold. He was called in for a little -- what's the polite way to put this -- chewing out I guess is more of a better way to put it.
But the president yesterday in an unscheduled meeting at the White House over this whole Iraqi prisoners issue. Tomorrow he'll testify in front of a Congressional committee where the atmosphere is sure to be heated.
Let me read you a quick thing out of "The Wall Street Journal" editorial.
"The media and politicians are in one of their bonfire phases," they write. "Every accusation against U.S. troops is now getting front page treatment like reporters at a free buffet, members of Congress are swarming to the TV cameras to declare their outrage and demand someone's head, usually Rumsfeld's."
The pictures that everybody is in such a stir about are actually pictures that were included in an Army report of this whole situation that was put together back in March of this year.
The question is why did President Bush not find out about it before he did? He claims he only found out about all this when he saw it on television. That's the problem for Donald Rumsfeld.
Where coming up the chain of command was this stuff blocked off from getting to the highest levels of the administration and positioned in such a way that it became the kind of international embarrassment that it's become?
The question is this: usually when things like this happen, the stuff runs downhill, as you know, and somebody's head usually is on the chopping block.
Should Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld resign -- or perhaps will he be forced to? am@cnn.com.
The idea that somehow there was a big cover-up on the part of the military just isn't true.
They got allegations last fall; they began an investigation in January; by March they had reports together; there was an administrative report compiled that included all these photos.
So, the Army was doing what it was supposed to do -- policing itself and going after the bad apples in its own barrel. The fact that this didn't get any farther up the chain of command is troublesome.
HEMMER: So your question is right, then, why didn't the White House administration or the Defense Department, the Pentagon, get out in front of this story and head it off before it's reached the crescendo it has now?
When you pick up the cover of "The Washington Post" today and -- again, a lot of people throughout the week have said this will get worse before it gets better and day-by-day, dribs and drabs -- I'm sorry...
SERWER: No, I was just saying, you have to bring this to the attention of the president. I think that's something you have to do.
HEMMER: Well, clearly.
CAFFERTY: We're engaged in the kind of military activity we're engaged in Iraq with the international consequences of our action very much hanging in the balance, almost on a daily basis, any chance to be in front of the story and do the right kind of PR can't be passed by.
HEMMER: Let's get a break here.
In a moment the end of a TV era. Later tonight "Friends" are saying their goodbyes.
That and a weekend movie preview on "90-Second Pop" -- they're getting warmed up. We'll get to them after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everybody. 7:30 here in New York, good morning.
Heidi Collins working for Soledad O'Brien once again today in New York City. And the beat goes on.
COLLINS: And the beat goes on, that's for sure. We're going to be hearing a little bit more about where al Qaeda could be recruiting next.
The federal prison population is filled with people already angry with the U.S. government and it won't be easy to limit the influence of religious extremists.
HEMMER: Also on a much different topic, we're hearing it a long time, the speculation; the final episode of "Friends" goes down tonight.
The questions will be settled. You've got a one-hour pre-game, you've got the one hour show, and then you've got the fallout, everything after that, huh?
COLLINS: It's a little much, isn't it? A little much.
HEMMER: Well, I don't know. The success of the -- you know what's cool the cast on "Friends" is that anytime you ask them about their success, they all give credit to their writers.
COLLINS: Yes, oh, they definitely have fantastic writers.
HEMMER: Yes, as we do here at AMERICAN MORNING also.
COLLINS: Indeed we do. That is very good.
HEMMER: Wonderful cast and crew here.
Top stories now here at the half-hour.
President Bush is vowing that justice will be delivered. His words for the apparent abuses of Iraqi inmates at the Abu Ghraib prison. The president appearing on two Arabic-language networks yesterday, including U.S.-based and operated Al Hurra. The president said the abuses will be investigated. Some U.S. senators, though, are urging the Pentagon to demolish that prison. They say tearing down the facility would be a symbolic end to both Saddam Hussein's torture chambers and an embarrassing episode for the U.S. military. The Senate also talking about a resolution to condemn the apparent abuses.
On the campaign trail, President Bush smashing records. The president helping the RNC to raise at least 38 million in its annual gala last night in Washington.
Meanwhile, Democratic candidate Senator John Kerry criticizing the White House for what he calls a -- quote -- "slow response" to claims that U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi prisoners. Kerry turns to educational issues today in California.
A new Gallup poll shows the candidates in another tight race. Among likely voters, 49 percent of them surveyed say they would vote for Kerry, 48 percent for President Bush.
At the World Trade Center site, they will be breaking ground on the Fourth of July for the new Freedom Tower. The governor, George Pataki, says this is the first step in reclaiming the New York skyline. At 1,776 feet tall, the Freedom Tower will be the highest building in the world. The groundbreaking is ahead of schedule, we're told. It was not supposed to take place until September 11, which will mark the three-year attack since the towers were torn down in southern Manhattan.
It is one pricey painting. Picasso's boy with the pipe is now the most expensive painting ever sold at auction. It fetched a record $104 million last night at Sotheby's, including commission. The previous record held by a Van Gogh painting, which sold for more than $82 million back in 1990. And there you have it.
COLLINS: Now that's an expensive painting.
HEMMER: I would say, yes. It's going to find a nice prominent place on a wall somewhere.
COLLINS: Yes, I like that guy, big time.
(WEATHER BREAK)
HEMMER: The Red Cross is joining the chorus of condemnation against the U.S. over the apparent abuse of Iraqi prisoners. The organization this morning said it had repeatedly requested U.S. authorities take corrective action at the Abu Ghraib prison.
Also in this morning's "Washing Post," in addition to new pictures of U.S. soldiers allegedly abusing Iraqis, an editorial critical of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. It reads in part: "The abuses that have done so much harm to the U.S. mission in Iraq might have been prevented had Mr. Rumsfeld been responsive to earlier reports of violations. Instead, he publicly dismissed or minimized such account."
Secretary Rumsfeld will answer questions publicly about the situation tomorrow on Capitol Hill.
Details now from senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Donald Rumsfeld prepares to face Congress tomorrow, he's insisting the Pentagon acted quickly and properly to hold wrongdoers accountable.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It's something that the department is addressing. The system works.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld can expect to have to provide fuller answers Friday when he appears for a demand performance before a hastily- arranged session of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Angry senators say they've been left in the dark, and some say it may be time for Rumsfeld, a former Navy pilot, to resign.
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D-DE), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: You know, there's just tradition in the United States Navy. If a captain of a ship goes up on the shoals, almost regardless of whether it's his fault or not, he loses command.
MCINTYRE (on camera): Rumsfeld likes to say he serves at the pleasure of the president. But even with the White House expressing some displeasure that President Bush wasn't kept fully in the loop, nobody here is suggesting Rumsfeld is in any real danger of losing his job.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: That expression of displeasure, Jamie just mentioned, came in the form of a private meeting with President Bush at the White House yesterday. A senior official tells us Mr. Bush -- quote -- "was not happy," and he let Secretary Rumsfeld know about it -- Bill.
HEMMER: A new Justice Department report warns that U.S. prisons could be fertile recruiting ground for al Qaeda. It says Islamic extremists have gained a foothold in more than 100 prisons nationwide. The question today: What's being done to address the potential infiltration of terrorists?
Ted Conover's book, "Newjack Guarding Sing Sing," describes the year he spent working as a corrections officer. Ted is with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Nice to see you, and good morning to you.
TED CONOVER, AUTHOR, "NEWJACK GUARDING SING SING": Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: This study and the report say prison chapels are -- quote -- "vulnerable to infiltration by religious extremists." What is it about that culture within a prison that makes it vulnerable?
CONOVER: Well, I think Islam has become a sort of liberation theology for a generation of American prisoners. You know, starting in the '60s and '70s when prominent African-Americans began converting to Islam, it's really become the growth religion in that community, and in prison as well. At Sing Sing by far the largest group of actively religious inmates were Muslim.
HEMMER: What's so attractive about it?
CONOVER: I think it doesn't seem so connected to the system and the establishment as Christianity is. It seems to offer possibilities for liberating individuals and a whole group of society that Christianity doesn't for them -- for whatever reason.
HEMMER: Back to the report now.
CONOVER: Yes.
HEMMER: The response from the U.S. Bureau of Prisons went like this: "We understand the seriousness and the risks inherent with extremist chaplains, contractors or volunteers. We've made significant changes since the review was initiated to better screen religious service providers."
Do you know about these changes? Changes like what?
CONOVER: You know, I just read the report yesterday. There's a big problem in the prisons now, because they aren't get new chaplains. The certifying authorities have all been discredited. And so you have lots and lots of Muslim prisoners, who are basically ministering to themselves. You know, a member of a congregation can become the imam and deliver the sermon if there isn't somebody approved from outside. So, the prisons need to deal with this, and that's what that report is trying to do.
HEMMER: Is this without supervision? Is that what you're saying?
CONOVER: Well, there's sometimes supervision if a guard is standing there. But a lot of prison personnel don't understand Islam and a lot of Muslim services are conducted in Arabic. I mean, it's smart to be doing this report to be thinking about what could be going on in there.
HEMMER: Here's the inherent problem I see, though, when a country that says, hey, you've got freedom to express, freedom to worship. If I'm a Muslim, I'm saying, get off my back. I can do what I want. You cannot monitor what I do in prayer.
CONOVER: Absolutely. But, you know, the prayers are set things. They are not -- this isn't where the organizing and the subversion are going on. It's in the sort of more casual socializing that goes on around the services that the prison authorities are worried. And it makes sense to be worried.
HEMMER: Are you worried? Do you believe there is reason for concern?
CONOVER: You know, I think this was smart to be examining the way, you know, Jose Padilla became Muslim in Florida prisons, and it is a breeding ground in a way. There are a lot of disaffected people there, very marginal people.
On the other hand, you don't want to be so scared that you get paranoid the way we seem to have been with captain Yee (ph) down at Guantanamo, the Muslim chaplain who was prosecuted until the government basically said, well, we don't really have a case against you.
HEMMER: And those are the more high-profile cases. But in regular prisons -- 100 across the country, according to this study -- common sense tells me they are locked up already. So, why then be concerned if you are already behind bars?
CONOVER: Well, because most will get out someday, and a few are going to get out even angrier than they went in. And you want to try to keep tabs on what they are angry about and who they are talking to.
HEMMER: Ted Conover, thanks for taking a look at it for us today. Nice to see you.
CONOVER: Thanks, Bill. You too.
HEMMER: All right -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Results of the latest SUV crash tests are out, and only three 2004 model year SUVs earned perfect scores. The government test-gauged which vehicles best protect occupants against serious injury. Those scoring best in both frontal and side impact tests, the Infiniti FX, the Saturn Vue and the Toyota Highlander. Scoring poorly in frontal crash tests, the Chevrolet Trailblazer, the Buick Rainier, both the GMC Envoy and Envoy XUV, the Isuzu Ascender and the Oldsmobile Bravada. The tests were conducted by the National Highway Traffic Administration.
HEMMER: In a moment here, at 21 minutes before the hour, deadly explosions earlier today in Baghdad. An update on what's happening there at the Coalition Authority headquarters.
COLLINS: In our next hour, the Senate is demanding answers on the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. We'll talk to the chairman of the Senate committee on intelligence.
HEMMER: Also, bidding a fond farewell to some of our TV "Friends." "90-Second Pop" and the finale later tonight. Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Oh, isn't it sad? It's time now for another all new edition of "90-Second Pop". And the gang is all here. Andy Borowitz, author of "Governor Arnold." Sarah Bernard, a contributing editor for "New York" magazine. And B.J. Sigesmund, a staff editor for "US Weekly."
Thanks for being here, guys. What are we going to do?
SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: It's a big night tonight. I know.
ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: What's going on? BERNARD: You haven't heard?
BOROWITZ: I didn't get the message.
COLLINS: OK, so the finale is finally here. We've been hearing about it for quite some time. Sarah, tell me, why has this show had such an incredible impact on pop culture?
BERNARD: I think -- OK. I thought about this. The main reason is because everyone wants to have a group of friends that's like their family. It is the "St. Elmo's Fire" tradition, where you have these attractive, supportive, funny group of friends that really become the people, especially in New York City, everyone says, you know, you make your own family by who you know here. And that's really what it is.
It's like everyone wants to have that kind of group of friend. There are so many loose ends to tie up tonight. There's the Ross and Rachel. Obviously, they're like, you know, Lucy and Desi. They have become this romantic couple that will go down in TV history.
B.J. SIGESMUND, STAFF EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Who everyone wants together.
COLLINS: Yes, they do, don't they?
BERNARD: They have to be together.
SIGESMUND: Yes.
BERNARD: Monica is going to have her -- you know, Monica and Chandler and the baby. But I really want to know who is going to get their apartments. OK. For me, that is the ultimate.
COLLINS: You New Yorker, you.
BERNARD: Yes.
SIGESMUND: The thing is, people are a little sick of all of the hype. I've been hearing a lot of complaints about the hype. But NBC is expecting half of the televisions in the country to be tuned into "Friends" tonight. And they are charging $2 million for every commercial.
BERNARD: It's worth it.
SIGESMUND: That's almost the Super Bowl rate.
BOROWITZ: And looking at it, you know...
COLLINS: Yes, that's right. That's Super Bowl money.
BERNARD: Yes.
BOROWITZ: So much of the appeal of that show, I think, is just seeing these incredibly hot, sexy people, you know, sitting around on a couch talking, which also is a lot of the appeal of "90-Second Pop". BERNARD: Hey, that sounds kind of familiar.
BOROWITZ: Yes, I think so. It does. So, we're prepared to carried on the torch, I think.
COLLINS: Oh, good.
SIGESMUND: Be prepared, because "Joey," the show on in the fall, you know, the Matt LeBlanc (ph) spin-off...
COLLINS: Right.
SIGESMUND: ... that could last three weeks. I mean, it could be bad. The chemistry among the six friends is something that happens once in a million TV shows.
BOROWITZ: Yes.
COLLINS: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: I think David Schwimmer, though, will be awesome in the center square, though, don't you think? I think he'll be great.
COLLINS: All right, guys, we've got to move on to the next topic. Mary Kate and Ashley, which I have been told, not the Olsen twins. They are definitely separate gals.
SIGESMUND: That's right.
BOROWITZ: That's right.
COLLINS: Their new movie, "The New York Minute," they try their hands really in this from top to bottom, producing-wise.
SIGESMUND: Yes.
COLLINS: But, B.J., you say it's not so great.
SIGESMUND: No, it's not so great. This is the first weekend of the summer movie season. This is not such a great movie. I'm expecting that the tweens, you know, who adore Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen, will be there. But it's really a silly movie of these two...
BERNARD: Plus all the older guys.
SIGESMUND: And old men.
COLLINS: Yes.
SIGESMUND: Young girls and old men are going to be going to see this. You know, they play Long Island twins who are very different who get chased across Manhattan over one day.
BOROWITZ: Why? SIGESMUND: The best thing about it is the hair actually. Why? It's too complicated to explain.
BOROWITZ: OK.
SIGESMUND: They're holding on to some computer chip that has music downloaded o it.
BERNARD: Don't worry that kind of stuff.
BOROWITZ: OK.
SIGESMUND: Don't worry about the explanation.
COLLINS: It sounds very complicated, though.
BERNARD: Yes.
SIGESMUND: It's not. It's not complicated.
COLLINS: It's definitely not.
BOROWITZ: To me, this weekend, it's a choice between "Van Helsing" or the Olsen twins movie. And I'm going to see "Van Helsing" because I don't like scary films.
BERNARD: No, but I don't think it's going to matter. I think that "New York Minute" is going to be No. 1 for the next couple of weeks. They have such a big draw. Everyone...
SIGESMUND: Yes.
BOROWITZ: They were promoting it on Al-Jazeera last night. I mean, it was unbelievable.
BERNARD: Oh!
SIGESMUND: No.
BERNARD: It's at the Tribeca Film Festival for goodness sakes.
SIGESMUND: "New York Minute," though.
BERNARD: It is.
SIGESMUND: "Van Helsing" is going to be No. 1. This is the $150 million B movie. It's Hugh Jackman playing this 19th century crusader who goes after Count Dracula. The early reviews have been really bad. Colleagues of mine have said it's like sensory overload. You don't know where to look on the screen. It's a big mess.
COLLINS: All right, OK.
BOROWITZ: But the Olsen twins are not in it.
SIGESMUND: But it's going to be huge. And the Olsen twins are not in it.
COLLINS: Hey, Andy, let's talk about Michael Moore. We talked about it a little bit yesterday on this show.
BOROWITZ: Right.
COLLINS: You know, Disney is blocking the release, as you know, of his new documentary about the September 11 attacks.
BOROWITZ: Right. Right.
COLLINS: What do you make of all of this? Do they have the choice as a company to decide what movies they distribute or not?
BOROWITZ: Well, you know, they own the rights. They can do what they want to. I mean, to me, if Michael Eisner really wanted to do the country a favor, he would have blocked the release of "Hidalgo." But, you know, I think that's great publicity for Michael Moore. You know, the same thing happened with his book "Stupid White Men." The company tried to prevent -- not Disney, but the publishing company was not going to let that out. You know, Al Franken with his book.
COLLINS: All right.
BOROWITZ: I mean, basically the Olsen twins should try to get somebody to ban their film. It's just great publicity.
BERNARD: You know, there's a precedent for this actually. This happened before with "Kids" in 1995.
BOROWITZ: Right.
BERNARD: That was another controversial movie. And what Miramax did was create a distribution arm called Shining Excalibur specifically to release that, and then they dissolved it afterwards. So, that's something that they can do. The movie will get out anyway.
BOROWITZ: I think it's going to make a ton of money. And that's right. You know, it's not really a Disney movie for that reason.
SIGESMUND: But Michael Moore has been the king of controversy. He did it with his book and "Bowling for Columbine" and "Roger & Me," the two biggest-selling, top-grossing documentaries of all time.
COLLINS: Yes.
SIGESMUND: Like he always does this. He always stokes controversy around his movies somehow.
COLLINS: And the media bites every time.
SIGESMUND: Yes, we do.
COLLINS: All right, guys, thanks so much for being with us today. We appreciate your time so much, Andy, Sarah and B.J. Thanks -- Bill. HEMMER: Must-see TV one more time tonight.
HEMMER: Thirteen minutes before the hour. In a moment here, take a look at this, a construction worker injured on the job. An accident with an incredible outcome. Our own neurosurgeon, Sanjay Gupta, in a moment on this story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: There's a construction worker in California lucky to be alive, a bizarre construction accident back in April. Asidro Mejiha (ph) fell from a roof onto a co-worker, who was using a nail gun. Six nails were driven into his head. Amazing x-rays here. Doctors say three of the nails penetrated his brain. One entered his spine just below the base of his skull.
A neurosurgeon removed the nails at a hospital in L.A., says his recovery has been absolutely remarkable.
Mejiha (ph), who made his first public appearance yesterday since that accident, says he does not remember much about what happened.
Let's bring in our own neurosurgeon, Sanjay Gupta, here. Good morning to you, doctor. How do you survive something like that?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's really remarkable. First of all, it is -- when you look at the x-rays, and I just have a little demonstration here. I mean, this is a three and a half inch nail. Hold that up there. I'll just put it across my own forehead for a second, and you'll get a sense of just how significant a that will go into the brain there, six of them.
HEMMER: My!
GUPTA: The big thing -- the reason people would die from something like this is if it hits a major blood vessel. If you hit a major blood vessel, and it starts to bleed, that's when someone would die.
HEMMER: So, you're saying it's the area that is penetrated that is most critical?
GUPTA: Exactly. Now, he may have some deficits from this, neurological deficits. One of those nails, in particular, the one that's on the left side of his brain, actually is more likely to affect his speech area. There's a good chance he may have some difficulties with his speech longer term. But he's clearly going to survive this. Once you get the nails out and once there's no bleeding, you know, he's going to do pretty well with this.
HEMMER: If you were in the operating here, don't you have to be very precise about the removal?
GUPTA: Yes. I mean, that's the thing. You never want to just sort of pull these things out. You probably want to remove the bone around it first, really get a good sense of just how much bleeding there is going to be when you pull the nail out and be able to control that right away. But, you know, an unusual case for sure.
HEMMER: Yes, an amazing story of survival, too.
Another one that we saw here in New York City two days ago, this videotape of this helicopter from channel 4 WNBC. Stunning stuff to see this go out of control and eventually smash into the building, cascade down to another level. How in the world do three men survive a crash like this?
GUPTA: Again, really remarkable pictures there. The thing about this and what we always pay attention to in the medical world is something known as an acceleration/deceleration injury. It's not so much how fast you were going. It's how fast you were stopping. This situation, you see them slowing down there considerably. That's very significant. Then you're going to see three separate decelerations as you watch this footage here. There's the first one there. There's the second one there and now there's a third one. Had there just been one single deceleration, a really hard drop, as they say with the helicopters, that could have been much more significant for these...
HEMMER: Yesterday afternoon you were saying internally it's the organs that you have to worry about, that sudden pressure.
GUPTA: That's right. That sudden...
HEMMER: To get that thing to slow down.
GUPTA: Do you watch NASCAR?
HEMMER: Sure.
GUPTA: You see a car hit the wall, it seems rather innocuous, not that significant. The guy has a significant injury. The car goes tumbling over many, many times. You say, wow, it looks really bad. In fact, he guy gets right out. Why? Longer time to stop. That's the key.
HEMMER: Dale Earnhardt comes to mind, too, when you talk about that.
GUPTA: Exactly.
HEMMER: Thank you, Sanjay.
GUPTA: Thank you.
HEMMER: All right -- Heidi.
COLLINS: I get so upset when I see those pictures of that chopper.
CAFFERTY: There was a quote from the pilot in one of the New York papers this morning saying that there are crumple zones built into the cockpit area of that helicopter, and underneath the seats in particular. This thing landed straight up. That there's a place underneath that's designed specifically to absorb that impact shock before it travels up into the bodies of people inside.
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: The same thing as NASCAR, the same idea.
GUPTA: Yes.
CAFFERTY: And you can't take those nails out with a claw hammer. That wouldn't work.
GUPTA: You shouldn't.
CAFFERTY: Our producer comes on and says, well, I'd just use a hammer and pull it right out. That's why you are here, Ted. You know what I mean?
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld met with President Bush yesterday and reportedly was criticized for his handling of the Iraq prisoner issue. Tomorrow, Mr. Rumsfeld appears before a congressional committee, where lawmakers from both parties are angry that they found out about these pictures only when they surfaced in the media, even though the military had had them for months.
But questions remain: How far up the administration did this information go? And why wasn't it dealt with sooner at a higher level?
The question is this: Should Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld resign? We are getting tons of mail, and the preponderance of it so far suggests that he needs to go. But it's early.
John in Tallahassee, Florida, writes this: "Yes, he should resign, but not because of the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. He should resign for being hard-headed and stubborn. He was told we needed a larger military force and he rejected the report and forced the retirement of a four-star general, who didn't buy the official line."
Shirley in Florida: "No, he should have been fired on the spot, along with everyone in the chain of command. No excuses. The commander in chief should go with him in November."
And Valerie in San Antonio, Texas, says: "Rumsfeld should not resign any more than any of the people in this position prior or after should resign when six individuals in a very large army act so egregiously. That question shows how ignorant the media is, how leftist it is, and how its agenda is to keep this story in the press for as long as possible."
It sells newspaper, Valerie. You know what I mean?
Bret in Fort Worth, Texas, says: "He's the secretary of defense. His organization failed massively to uphold the honor and principles of America. We cannot claim to be liberating Iraq when we are dragging their people around on dog leashes. If Rummy (ph) didn't know about it, he should have. Being the commander means taking responsibility. It's time for him to fall on his sword." Those hearings tomorrow, those ought to be something.
HEMMER: Indeed they are. We're talking to two senators coming up in a moment here, both sides of the aisle, what questions they want answered tomorrow.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
HEMMER: We'll talk to them in a moment.
COLLINS: For now, though, still to come this morning, another car bombing in central Baghdad leaves several people dead, including an American soldier. Details on that straight ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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Aired May 6, 2004 - 07:00 ET
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ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to Thursday. Seven o'clock in New York. Soledad is out this week. Heidi Collins filling in for us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Good morning to you.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you.
HEMMER: Nice spring color there.
COLLINS: I'm trying, you know?
Other stories we are following this morning. President Bush is losing ground in some new polls.
Six months before the election the president is finding himself about where his father was in 1992.
We'll get a political damage assessment in just a couple of minutes on that.
HEMMER: Also those poll numbers -- the same polling numbers -- should be good news for Senator John Kerry, but instead, he's taking heat from some bedrock Democratic supports.
Donna Brazile in a moment with some powerful criticism of the Kerry campaign from Democratic quarters. We'll get to that as well today.
COLLINS: Jack Cafferty now.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
The feeding frenzy on the part of the media and members of Congress concerning the Iraqi prisoner story only gets bigger by the day.
It's probably worth remembering that it was the Army that uncovered this information and the photographs. It wasn't any great journalistic coup by the news media.
Nevertheless, the sound and the fury over this whole thing continues to seemingly focus on Donald Rumsfeld. We'll take a closer look in a few minutes.
COLLINS: All right, very good. Thanks, Jack.
And we do begin in Iraq this morning where an overnight car bombing left at least seven people dead in central Baghdad, including one U.S. soldier.
The suicide attack taking place near the area that houses the U.S.-led coalition headquarters. The blast shattered windows in nearby businesses. Dozens of people were injured.
And two U.S. soldiers were killed and two others wounded in the Iraqi capitol in a separate explosion. Military officials say the soldiers were killed after an improvised explosive device went off last night.
More photos have been released showing what appear to be U.S. soldiers abusing Iraqi prisoners at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib Prison.
"The Washington Post" claims the graphic images were among digital photos seized by military investigators looking into conditions at the facility.
At least six soldiers faced criminal charges as a result of the reported mistreatment.
President Bush has asked Congress for $25 billion to help cover military expenses in Iraq and Afghanistan. Critics say the precise cost of next year's operations is not known, and the president is low- balling the amount for political reasons.
And cooler weather and a lot less wind is helping firefighters in southern California contain the raging wildfires there. More than 20,000 acres have now been burned -- at least 14 homes destroyed.
People in Riverside County near Los Angeles have been allowed to go back home, though, but the raging fire in the Lake Elsinor area, about 70 miles from L.A., is still threatening about 1,000 homes there.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: President Bush allowing some of those at the very highest rungs of his administration know that he is not happy about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld testifying tomorrow morning before a Senate committee about the alleged abuse -- has already heard from the president.
To the White House this morning and Dana Bash with more on this for us. Dana, good morning there.
DANA BASH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill, and in public the president is careful to say that he is confident in his defense secretary, but we're told that in a private Oval Office meeting yesterday morning Mr. Bush said to the secretary Donald Rumsfeld that he is not satisfied about the way he was informed about the pictures.
Now, the issue is that he wasn't informed about the pictures, at least not until they aired on CBS News.
Now, that is after the Pentagon, we are told, was negotiating with CBS News for a couple of weeks about airing them.
Still, the president did not know, according to the White House, until he saw them on television.
He also didn't know about a report, a classified report, cataloging the abuses at Abu Ghraib Prison, also until it was in the news.
Now, the fact that the president himself went on Arab television to engage -- personally engage -- in damage control certainly shows that the White House understands that -- a big problem on their hands -- but for a president who prides himself on loyalty and not to expose any internal risks or displeasure with his own people to also allow his staff and let it be known that he scolded his own defense secretary also shows how much the White House understands they need to get out ahead of this, to show that they are trying to reprimand anybody who might have been responsible for any kind of lack in judgment or lack in addressing this issue.
Because they understand that this is a perception problem for them, but also that it could have major ramifications on their policies, of course, in Iraq -- Bill.
HEMMER: Dana Bash, thanks for that.
All eyes on the Hill tomorrow when Secretary Rumsfeld goes there. What can we expect in those hearings?
Ed Henry has a preview in D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rumsfeld will face senators in both parties who are furious about being kept in the dark.
SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R), GEORGIA: He's going to be grilled pretty good about what happened, how it happened, and how far up the chain it looks like it went.
HENRY: Members of the Armed Services panel have a checklist of concerns they're demanding that Rumsfeld address. The top Democrat on the panel, Carl Levin, told CNN he expects a direct apology from Rumsfeld to show the buck stops with the man at the top.
Senators want to know whether enlisted personnel were acting on their own or carrying out orders from higher ups. What role did private contractors play at the prison, and why didn't Rumsfeld tell lawmakers about the controversy last week when he briefed them just hours before CBS aired the graphic abuse photos?
SEN. RICHARD DURKIN (D), ILLINOIS: The secretary testified without even indicating to the members of the Senate that this story existed or was about to be disclosed to the American people. That is unacceptable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Bill, the secretary is facing pressure on another front this morning. Two members of the Armed Services Committee, Senators Ben Nelson and Pat Roberts, are urging the Pentagon to demolish that prison in Iraq. Senator Nelson told CNN that if Rumsfeld does not act on his own he will pass legislation demanding that the Pentagon do so -- Bill.
HEMMER: Ed, that prison is Abu Ghraib. It was a symbol for so many Iraqis under the tyranny of Saddam Hussein in a previous ruling in that country. If you close it down, if you level the place, what does that do for the situation in Iraq today?
HENRY: A growing number of senators in both parties have been telling us in the last 24 hours they believe that this will be a symbolic gesture along the lines of the fall of that statue of Saddam Hussein in the middle of Baghdad last year that would send a clear signal to the international community that those abuses will no longer go on.
HEMMER: Ed Henry, thanks, on Capitol Hill.
Nice to have you here, and welcome to AMERICAN MORNING and CNN, Ed.
HENRY: Thank you.
HEMMER: Here's Heidi.
COLLINS: The situation in Iraq may be one of the reasons behind some erosion of support for President Bush.
A new Gallup poll puts Mr. Bush's job approval rating at 49 percent.
That's down three percentage points in the last two weeks and his lowest approval rating since taking office.
Earlier I spoke with CNN's senior political analyst Bill Schneider and I asked him for his take on these new numbers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POL. ANALYST: What's happening right now is there are growing questions about Mr. Bush's policies in Iraq, about his stewardship of the economy. Those have been accumulating all year. But, the big problem is Democrats are dismayed because John Kerry hasn't been able to gain much traction out of Mr. Bush's problems.
That's because the White House has raised a lot of questions about Kerry, most voters don't know a great deal about John Kerry right now; the White House has raised questions about whether he's steadfast and steady at a time of great uncertainty, whether he can meet the threat of terrorism with staunch leadership comparable to the presidents.
So while Americans have doubts about President Bush, they're not yet ready at this point to say they put their confidence in the Democrat.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: And right after the break we'll talk more politics with Democratic strategist Donna Brazile.
She says Senator John Kerry's campaign has failed to understand how to navigate one of the most important issues in American politics.
Details on that coming up next.
HEMMER: Almost ten minutes past the hour.
Also in a moment here Donald Rumsfeld ready to testify on Capitol Hill about that prisoner abuse. Could his job be on the line there? We'll talk about that, Heidi.
COLLINS: Plus, wildfires scorch southern California as firefighters help Mother Nature. We'll stay on their side.
HEMMER: Also, the allegation is that Disney is trying to muzzle Michael Moore. Is it just publicity?
We'll have a shot at that in "90-Second Pop" this morning.
Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: There's good news and bad news for John Kerry's presidential campaign.
The good news is the latest Gallup poll showing Senator Kerry has gained ground on the president since mid-April.
The bad news comes from fellow Democrats questioning his commitment to racial diversity.
Democratic strategist Donna Brazile says the absence of African- Americans and Hispanics in key positions could prove to be a fatal flaw in November. And Donna good morning to you. She's also CNN political contributor -- she's joining us this morning from Washington.
Thanks for being here this morning, Donna.
DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you.
COLLINS: You wrote a column for this week's edition of Capitol Hill newspaper "Roll Call." I want to go ahead and read just a portion of that quickly.
"If the past is indeed prologue, this message has been lost on Sen. John Kerry's campaign, which has failed to understand how to navigate one of the most important issues in American politics: race relations and diversity."
How big a problem are the -- these issues -- for the Kerry campaign, Donna?
BRAZILE: Well, for three weeks I believe the Kerry campaign struggled to find its message on this issue, and what my column attempted to do is to say, look, for 20 years the Democratic Party has broadened its appeal, broadened its base; it has been the most inclusive political party.
The Republicans don't even attempt to even make any involvement of minorities in their campaign.
But, look; this is an opportunity for the Kerry campaign to begin to broaden its appeal -- to have a vision so that everyone in November can turn out.
COLLINS: But Senator Kerry's deputy campaign manager, Marcus Jadotte -- actually says --he is also a black man -- says 20 percent of John Kerry's staff is either black of Hispanic. What do you say to those numbers?
BRAZILE: Well, first of all, Marcus is a great guy; he ran our Florida operation and he did a good job, and too bad the Supreme Court overturned the campaign in 2000.
But this is really not about numbers; it's about the vision. In 2000 we had a record turnout minority -- that's why Al Gore was even able to have a recount in Florida.
What we're attempting this year again is another record turnout of Democrats and Independents and even those Republicans who would like to come over, so it's really about the vision, it's about making sure the campaign is inclusive at all levels so that people feel a way in and a way to help John Kerry win, because ultimately Democrats want to see John Kerry win in the fall.
COLLINS: So then how would you like to see the Kerry campaign respond to these latest criticisms?
BRAZILE: Well, I think that they are putting a lot this behind them now. Mary Beth has taken very affirmative steps to insure that her inner circle, outer circle, expanded circle and the -- of course -- the larger circle is inclusive.
It reflects not just the broad diversity of the Democratic Party, but reflects the country itself. This is a campaign that must, of course, have everyone at the table in order to, you know, ensure victory in the fall.
COLLINS: You know, you talk about division, and you talk about reaching out and really trying to get to the voters.
Some pundits are actually saying that maybe Kerry should turn to BET or TV1 to get this message out. What do you think about that? Do you think it would be effective?
BRAZILE: Well, look, with a tremendous media buy I'm sure he will turn to BET, TV1, Tom Joiner, Tavis Smiley and many others who can help amplify his message.
Reverend Sharpton, Reverend Jackson and those of us who are not reverends. But, look, the good news is that the Kerry campaign I believe is now in a position to really buy time on these stations but also to appeal to some of the national surrogates that they have.
They have a tremendous level of support among members on Capitol Hill and all throughout the country.
Tap into those communities, bring those people in and ensure that we have a platform that the Party can be proud of.
COLLINS: Donna Brazile this morning. Donna, thanks so much -- nice to see you.
BRAZILE: Thank you.
HEMMER: Sixteen minutes past the hour.
This morning cooler weather is helping firefighters get control over several blazes in southern California.
Still though the devastation of that fast-moving flames widespread there.
Ted Rowlands is there for us this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The combination of a weather shift and around the clock work from thousands of firefighters is helping to bring the years first round of California wildfires under control.
Fourteen homes have been destroyed in more than 22,000 acres blackened by six separate fires sine they started last weekend.
The combination of a three-year drought and thousands of dead beetle-infested trees has many people convinced that this is just the beginning of a long fire season ahead.
BILL PETERS, CALIFORNIA FORESTRY DEPARTMENT: There are still over 12 million dead trees in the San Bernardino and San Jacinto mountains. I mean they're just dead.
You know that's drawing gasoline, if you will, waiting to go up.
ROWLANDS: People evacuated from their homes are coming back to dramatically different scenes. This house near the city of Temecula east of Los Angeles was in the middle of the fire zone but was untouched.
People living at the Dorland Mountain Arts Colony are not as lucky. The only thing left of the world-renowned artist's retreat is the charred remains of nine buildings and two cottages.
Lost in the fire are decade's worth of work and numerous antiques, including a 1920s Steinway concert grand piano, which is said to have been played by Russian pianist Sergei Rachmaninoff during visits to the colony.
KAREN PARROTT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DORLAND MTN. ARTS COLONY: Everything gone. It's been a bit to take in.
ROWLANDS: While they believe they have the upper hand, firefighters are expected to keep a very close eye on the two largest fires in the region, both centered in Riverside County.
It is expected, barring any change in the weather, that full containment will be achieved in all of these fires by the end of the week.
Ted Rowlands, CNN, Temecula, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: And we have been warned for weeks now -- fire officials saying this seasons first wildfires burned with an intensity usually not seen until late summer -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Still to come this morning, more on the unfolding scandal over prisoner abuse as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld prepares to testify on Capitol Hill.
And a judge says no to Martha Stewart. Where does her case go from here? Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right welcome back everybody. Martha Stewart rejected yesterday by her judge and how Lea Fastow fares before hers today?
Good question. That and more in the market preview.
Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business" here, first check with you today.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good to see you.
HEMMER: What's happening with Ms. Stewart?
SERWER: Well, it looks like we're headed toward June 17, Bill. That will be the sentencing hearing where Martha Stewart and Peter Bacanovic will find out how much time they will spend incarcerated.
Yesterday, a judge denied their request for a new trial. They wanted a new trial because they said a juror lied about his background. The judge said it's not material. And so it looks like we're moving forward on that story.
I saw Martha Stewart yesterday at the Waldorf Astoria at the National Magazine awards. I nodded to her and she kind of looked down at her food
(LAUGHTER)
SERWER: But she's putting up, you know, a good face of it. Going and doing her business in the magazine world.
(CROSSTALK)
Every morning I come in and nod at Jack and he's...
HEMMER: Was this lunch or dinner?
SERWER: It was a lunch.
HEMMER: Yes?
SERWER: Awards lunch yesterday.
Let's talk about Lea Fastow. Well, let's talk about K-Mart, actually, first, because of course there's a connection to Martha Stewart.
One year out of bankruptcy today, and the stock has done very, very well.
I only wish I'd bought it. Actually, I'm probably not allowed to.
But, it's up about $15 you can see here over the past year. Not out of the woods yet by any means, but.
All right now, let's go to Lea Fastow and we'll talk about her because this morning she will be facing a judge, as well.
She will be pleading guilty to one misdemeanor charge. Remember, she had all kinds of felony charges reduced to a single misdemeanor count, a tax charge, and she is looking at less than 12 months in jail. So interesting stuff on that front as well.
HEMMER: The maximum she gets is a year.
SERWER: That's right, yes, that's going to be less.
HEMMER: She'd get probation?
SERWER: She'll probably -- no -- she'll probably get to do some time served at home later in the sentence.
HEMMER: OK, tomorrow is the jobs report and we're all waiting on that on Wall Street.
SERWER: Yes, absolutely. Yesterday, though, let's talk about that.
Kind of a down day, some really directionless trading here back and forth, and this morning the futures are looking a little bit soft because people are scared about those oil prices. We're looking at $40 a barrel now.
HEMMER: I'm going to look at my food.
SERWER: Yes, OK. I have that effect on people. And thank you, Jack, for pointing that out.
CAFFERTY: I was just -- you know inquiring minds want to know that.
COLLINS: I would never do that to you, Andy.
SERWER: Thank you, Heidi.
COLLINS: I would stand up and shake your hand.
SERWER: All right, good deal.
COLLINS: Time now for the Cafferty Files and the "Question of the Day" from Jack.
Still talking about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal.
CAFFERTY: Yes, more specifically Donald Rumsfeld and what his future may hold. He was called in for a little -- what's the polite way to put this -- chewing out I guess is more of a better way to put it.
But the president yesterday in an unscheduled meeting at the White House over this whole Iraqi prisoners issue. Tomorrow he'll testify in front of a Congressional committee where the atmosphere is sure to be heated.
Let me read you a quick thing out of "The Wall Street Journal" editorial.
"The media and politicians are in one of their bonfire phases," they write. "Every accusation against U.S. troops is now getting front page treatment like reporters at a free buffet, members of Congress are swarming to the TV cameras to declare their outrage and demand someone's head, usually Rumsfeld's."
The pictures that everybody is in such a stir about are actually pictures that were included in an Army report of this whole situation that was put together back in March of this year.
The question is why did President Bush not find out about it before he did? He claims he only found out about all this when he saw it on television. That's the problem for Donald Rumsfeld.
Where coming up the chain of command was this stuff blocked off from getting to the highest levels of the administration and positioned in such a way that it became the kind of international embarrassment that it's become?
The question is this: usually when things like this happen, the stuff runs downhill, as you know, and somebody's head usually is on the chopping block.
Should Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld resign -- or perhaps will he be forced to? am@cnn.com.
The idea that somehow there was a big cover-up on the part of the military just isn't true.
They got allegations last fall; they began an investigation in January; by March they had reports together; there was an administrative report compiled that included all these photos.
So, the Army was doing what it was supposed to do -- policing itself and going after the bad apples in its own barrel. The fact that this didn't get any farther up the chain of command is troublesome.
HEMMER: So your question is right, then, why didn't the White House administration or the Defense Department, the Pentagon, get out in front of this story and head it off before it's reached the crescendo it has now?
When you pick up the cover of "The Washington Post" today and -- again, a lot of people throughout the week have said this will get worse before it gets better and day-by-day, dribs and drabs -- I'm sorry...
SERWER: No, I was just saying, you have to bring this to the attention of the president. I think that's something you have to do.
HEMMER: Well, clearly.
CAFFERTY: We're engaged in the kind of military activity we're engaged in Iraq with the international consequences of our action very much hanging in the balance, almost on a daily basis, any chance to be in front of the story and do the right kind of PR can't be passed by.
HEMMER: Let's get a break here.
In a moment the end of a TV era. Later tonight "Friends" are saying their goodbyes.
That and a weekend movie preview on "90-Second Pop" -- they're getting warmed up. We'll get to them after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everybody. 7:30 here in New York, good morning.
Heidi Collins working for Soledad O'Brien once again today in New York City. And the beat goes on.
COLLINS: And the beat goes on, that's for sure. We're going to be hearing a little bit more about where al Qaeda could be recruiting next.
The federal prison population is filled with people already angry with the U.S. government and it won't be easy to limit the influence of religious extremists.
HEMMER: Also on a much different topic, we're hearing it a long time, the speculation; the final episode of "Friends" goes down tonight.
The questions will be settled. You've got a one-hour pre-game, you've got the one hour show, and then you've got the fallout, everything after that, huh?
COLLINS: It's a little much, isn't it? A little much.
HEMMER: Well, I don't know. The success of the -- you know what's cool the cast on "Friends" is that anytime you ask them about their success, they all give credit to their writers.
COLLINS: Yes, oh, they definitely have fantastic writers.
HEMMER: Yes, as we do here at AMERICAN MORNING also.
COLLINS: Indeed we do. That is very good.
HEMMER: Wonderful cast and crew here.
Top stories now here at the half-hour.
President Bush is vowing that justice will be delivered. His words for the apparent abuses of Iraqi inmates at the Abu Ghraib prison. The president appearing on two Arabic-language networks yesterday, including U.S.-based and operated Al Hurra. The president said the abuses will be investigated. Some U.S. senators, though, are urging the Pentagon to demolish that prison. They say tearing down the facility would be a symbolic end to both Saddam Hussein's torture chambers and an embarrassing episode for the U.S. military. The Senate also talking about a resolution to condemn the apparent abuses.
On the campaign trail, President Bush smashing records. The president helping the RNC to raise at least 38 million in its annual gala last night in Washington.
Meanwhile, Democratic candidate Senator John Kerry criticizing the White House for what he calls a -- quote -- "slow response" to claims that U.S. soldiers abused Iraqi prisoners. Kerry turns to educational issues today in California.
A new Gallup poll shows the candidates in another tight race. Among likely voters, 49 percent of them surveyed say they would vote for Kerry, 48 percent for President Bush.
At the World Trade Center site, they will be breaking ground on the Fourth of July for the new Freedom Tower. The governor, George Pataki, says this is the first step in reclaiming the New York skyline. At 1,776 feet tall, the Freedom Tower will be the highest building in the world. The groundbreaking is ahead of schedule, we're told. It was not supposed to take place until September 11, which will mark the three-year attack since the towers were torn down in southern Manhattan.
It is one pricey painting. Picasso's boy with the pipe is now the most expensive painting ever sold at auction. It fetched a record $104 million last night at Sotheby's, including commission. The previous record held by a Van Gogh painting, which sold for more than $82 million back in 1990. And there you have it.
COLLINS: Now that's an expensive painting.
HEMMER: I would say, yes. It's going to find a nice prominent place on a wall somewhere.
COLLINS: Yes, I like that guy, big time.
(WEATHER BREAK)
HEMMER: The Red Cross is joining the chorus of condemnation against the U.S. over the apparent abuse of Iraqi prisoners. The organization this morning said it had repeatedly requested U.S. authorities take corrective action at the Abu Ghraib prison.
Also in this morning's "Washing Post," in addition to new pictures of U.S. soldiers allegedly abusing Iraqis, an editorial critical of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. It reads in part: "The abuses that have done so much harm to the U.S. mission in Iraq might have been prevented had Mr. Rumsfeld been responsive to earlier reports of violations. Instead, he publicly dismissed or minimized such account."
Secretary Rumsfeld will answer questions publicly about the situation tomorrow on Capitol Hill.
Details now from senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Donald Rumsfeld prepares to face Congress tomorrow, he's insisting the Pentagon acted quickly and properly to hold wrongdoers accountable.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: It's something that the department is addressing. The system works.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld can expect to have to provide fuller answers Friday when he appears for a demand performance before a hastily- arranged session of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Angry senators say they've been left in the dark, and some say it may be time for Rumsfeld, a former Navy pilot, to resign.
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D-DE), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: You know, there's just tradition in the United States Navy. If a captain of a ship goes up on the shoals, almost regardless of whether it's his fault or not, he loses command.
MCINTYRE (on camera): Rumsfeld likes to say he serves at the pleasure of the president. But even with the White House expressing some displeasure that President Bush wasn't kept fully in the loop, nobody here is suggesting Rumsfeld is in any real danger of losing his job.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: That expression of displeasure, Jamie just mentioned, came in the form of a private meeting with President Bush at the White House yesterday. A senior official tells us Mr. Bush -- quote -- "was not happy," and he let Secretary Rumsfeld know about it -- Bill.
HEMMER: A new Justice Department report warns that U.S. prisons could be fertile recruiting ground for al Qaeda. It says Islamic extremists have gained a foothold in more than 100 prisons nationwide. The question today: What's being done to address the potential infiltration of terrorists?
Ted Conover's book, "Newjack Guarding Sing Sing," describes the year he spent working as a corrections officer. Ted is with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Nice to see you, and good morning to you.
TED CONOVER, AUTHOR, "NEWJACK GUARDING SING SING": Thank you, Bill.
HEMMER: This study and the report say prison chapels are -- quote -- "vulnerable to infiltration by religious extremists." What is it about that culture within a prison that makes it vulnerable?
CONOVER: Well, I think Islam has become a sort of liberation theology for a generation of American prisoners. You know, starting in the '60s and '70s when prominent African-Americans began converting to Islam, it's really become the growth religion in that community, and in prison as well. At Sing Sing by far the largest group of actively religious inmates were Muslim.
HEMMER: What's so attractive about it?
CONOVER: I think it doesn't seem so connected to the system and the establishment as Christianity is. It seems to offer possibilities for liberating individuals and a whole group of society that Christianity doesn't for them -- for whatever reason.
HEMMER: Back to the report now.
CONOVER: Yes.
HEMMER: The response from the U.S. Bureau of Prisons went like this: "We understand the seriousness and the risks inherent with extremist chaplains, contractors or volunteers. We've made significant changes since the review was initiated to better screen religious service providers."
Do you know about these changes? Changes like what?
CONOVER: You know, I just read the report yesterday. There's a big problem in the prisons now, because they aren't get new chaplains. The certifying authorities have all been discredited. And so you have lots and lots of Muslim prisoners, who are basically ministering to themselves. You know, a member of a congregation can become the imam and deliver the sermon if there isn't somebody approved from outside. So, the prisons need to deal with this, and that's what that report is trying to do.
HEMMER: Is this without supervision? Is that what you're saying?
CONOVER: Well, there's sometimes supervision if a guard is standing there. But a lot of prison personnel don't understand Islam and a lot of Muslim services are conducted in Arabic. I mean, it's smart to be doing this report to be thinking about what could be going on in there.
HEMMER: Here's the inherent problem I see, though, when a country that says, hey, you've got freedom to express, freedom to worship. If I'm a Muslim, I'm saying, get off my back. I can do what I want. You cannot monitor what I do in prayer.
CONOVER: Absolutely. But, you know, the prayers are set things. They are not -- this isn't where the organizing and the subversion are going on. It's in the sort of more casual socializing that goes on around the services that the prison authorities are worried. And it makes sense to be worried.
HEMMER: Are you worried? Do you believe there is reason for concern?
CONOVER: You know, I think this was smart to be examining the way, you know, Jose Padilla became Muslim in Florida prisons, and it is a breeding ground in a way. There are a lot of disaffected people there, very marginal people.
On the other hand, you don't want to be so scared that you get paranoid the way we seem to have been with captain Yee (ph) down at Guantanamo, the Muslim chaplain who was prosecuted until the government basically said, well, we don't really have a case against you.
HEMMER: And those are the more high-profile cases. But in regular prisons -- 100 across the country, according to this study -- common sense tells me they are locked up already. So, why then be concerned if you are already behind bars?
CONOVER: Well, because most will get out someday, and a few are going to get out even angrier than they went in. And you want to try to keep tabs on what they are angry about and who they are talking to.
HEMMER: Ted Conover, thanks for taking a look at it for us today. Nice to see you.
CONOVER: Thanks, Bill. You too.
HEMMER: All right -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Results of the latest SUV crash tests are out, and only three 2004 model year SUVs earned perfect scores. The government test-gauged which vehicles best protect occupants against serious injury. Those scoring best in both frontal and side impact tests, the Infiniti FX, the Saturn Vue and the Toyota Highlander. Scoring poorly in frontal crash tests, the Chevrolet Trailblazer, the Buick Rainier, both the GMC Envoy and Envoy XUV, the Isuzu Ascender and the Oldsmobile Bravada. The tests were conducted by the National Highway Traffic Administration.
HEMMER: In a moment here, at 21 minutes before the hour, deadly explosions earlier today in Baghdad. An update on what's happening there at the Coalition Authority headquarters.
COLLINS: In our next hour, the Senate is demanding answers on the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. We'll talk to the chairman of the Senate committee on intelligence.
HEMMER: Also, bidding a fond farewell to some of our TV "Friends." "90-Second Pop" and the finale later tonight. Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Oh, isn't it sad? It's time now for another all new edition of "90-Second Pop". And the gang is all here. Andy Borowitz, author of "Governor Arnold." Sarah Bernard, a contributing editor for "New York" magazine. And B.J. Sigesmund, a staff editor for "US Weekly."
Thanks for being here, guys. What are we going to do?
SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: It's a big night tonight. I know.
ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: What's going on? BERNARD: You haven't heard?
BOROWITZ: I didn't get the message.
COLLINS: OK, so the finale is finally here. We've been hearing about it for quite some time. Sarah, tell me, why has this show had such an incredible impact on pop culture?
BERNARD: I think -- OK. I thought about this. The main reason is because everyone wants to have a group of friends that's like their family. It is the "St. Elmo's Fire" tradition, where you have these attractive, supportive, funny group of friends that really become the people, especially in New York City, everyone says, you know, you make your own family by who you know here. And that's really what it is.
It's like everyone wants to have that kind of group of friend. There are so many loose ends to tie up tonight. There's the Ross and Rachel. Obviously, they're like, you know, Lucy and Desi. They have become this romantic couple that will go down in TV history.
B.J. SIGESMUND, STAFF EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": Who everyone wants together.
COLLINS: Yes, they do, don't they?
BERNARD: They have to be together.
SIGESMUND: Yes.
BERNARD: Monica is going to have her -- you know, Monica and Chandler and the baby. But I really want to know who is going to get their apartments. OK. For me, that is the ultimate.
COLLINS: You New Yorker, you.
BERNARD: Yes.
SIGESMUND: The thing is, people are a little sick of all of the hype. I've been hearing a lot of complaints about the hype. But NBC is expecting half of the televisions in the country to be tuned into "Friends" tonight. And they are charging $2 million for every commercial.
BERNARD: It's worth it.
SIGESMUND: That's almost the Super Bowl rate.
BOROWITZ: And looking at it, you know...
COLLINS: Yes, that's right. That's Super Bowl money.
BERNARD: Yes.
BOROWITZ: So much of the appeal of that show, I think, is just seeing these incredibly hot, sexy people, you know, sitting around on a couch talking, which also is a lot of the appeal of "90-Second Pop". BERNARD: Hey, that sounds kind of familiar.
BOROWITZ: Yes, I think so. It does. So, we're prepared to carried on the torch, I think.
COLLINS: Oh, good.
SIGESMUND: Be prepared, because "Joey," the show on in the fall, you know, the Matt LeBlanc (ph) spin-off...
COLLINS: Right.
SIGESMUND: ... that could last three weeks. I mean, it could be bad. The chemistry among the six friends is something that happens once in a million TV shows.
BOROWITZ: Yes.
COLLINS: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BOROWITZ: I think David Schwimmer, though, will be awesome in the center square, though, don't you think? I think he'll be great.
COLLINS: All right, guys, we've got to move on to the next topic. Mary Kate and Ashley, which I have been told, not the Olsen twins. They are definitely separate gals.
SIGESMUND: That's right.
BOROWITZ: That's right.
COLLINS: Their new movie, "The New York Minute," they try their hands really in this from top to bottom, producing-wise.
SIGESMUND: Yes.
COLLINS: But, B.J., you say it's not so great.
SIGESMUND: No, it's not so great. This is the first weekend of the summer movie season. This is not such a great movie. I'm expecting that the tweens, you know, who adore Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen, will be there. But it's really a silly movie of these two...
BERNARD: Plus all the older guys.
SIGESMUND: And old men.
COLLINS: Yes.
SIGESMUND: Young girls and old men are going to be going to see this. You know, they play Long Island twins who are very different who get chased across Manhattan over one day.
BOROWITZ: Why? SIGESMUND: The best thing about it is the hair actually. Why? It's too complicated to explain.
BOROWITZ: OK.
SIGESMUND: They're holding on to some computer chip that has music downloaded o it.
BERNARD: Don't worry that kind of stuff.
BOROWITZ: OK.
SIGESMUND: Don't worry about the explanation.
COLLINS: It sounds very complicated, though.
BERNARD: Yes.
SIGESMUND: It's not. It's not complicated.
COLLINS: It's definitely not.
BOROWITZ: To me, this weekend, it's a choice between "Van Helsing" or the Olsen twins movie. And I'm going to see "Van Helsing" because I don't like scary films.
BERNARD: No, but I don't think it's going to matter. I think that "New York Minute" is going to be No. 1 for the next couple of weeks. They have such a big draw. Everyone...
SIGESMUND: Yes.
BOROWITZ: They were promoting it on Al-Jazeera last night. I mean, it was unbelievable.
BERNARD: Oh!
SIGESMUND: No.
BERNARD: It's at the Tribeca Film Festival for goodness sakes.
SIGESMUND: "New York Minute," though.
BERNARD: It is.
SIGESMUND: "Van Helsing" is going to be No. 1. This is the $150 million B movie. It's Hugh Jackman playing this 19th century crusader who goes after Count Dracula. The early reviews have been really bad. Colleagues of mine have said it's like sensory overload. You don't know where to look on the screen. It's a big mess.
COLLINS: All right, OK.
BOROWITZ: But the Olsen twins are not in it.
SIGESMUND: But it's going to be huge. And the Olsen twins are not in it.
COLLINS: Hey, Andy, let's talk about Michael Moore. We talked about it a little bit yesterday on this show.
BOROWITZ: Right.
COLLINS: You know, Disney is blocking the release, as you know, of his new documentary about the September 11 attacks.
BOROWITZ: Right. Right.
COLLINS: What do you make of all of this? Do they have the choice as a company to decide what movies they distribute or not?
BOROWITZ: Well, you know, they own the rights. They can do what they want to. I mean, to me, if Michael Eisner really wanted to do the country a favor, he would have blocked the release of "Hidalgo." But, you know, I think that's great publicity for Michael Moore. You know, the same thing happened with his book "Stupid White Men." The company tried to prevent -- not Disney, but the publishing company was not going to let that out. You know, Al Franken with his book.
COLLINS: All right.
BOROWITZ: I mean, basically the Olsen twins should try to get somebody to ban their film. It's just great publicity.
BERNARD: You know, there's a precedent for this actually. This happened before with "Kids" in 1995.
BOROWITZ: Right.
BERNARD: That was another controversial movie. And what Miramax did was create a distribution arm called Shining Excalibur specifically to release that, and then they dissolved it afterwards. So, that's something that they can do. The movie will get out anyway.
BOROWITZ: I think it's going to make a ton of money. And that's right. You know, it's not really a Disney movie for that reason.
SIGESMUND: But Michael Moore has been the king of controversy. He did it with his book and "Bowling for Columbine" and "Roger & Me," the two biggest-selling, top-grossing documentaries of all time.
COLLINS: Yes.
SIGESMUND: Like he always does this. He always stokes controversy around his movies somehow.
COLLINS: And the media bites every time.
SIGESMUND: Yes, we do.
COLLINS: All right, guys, thanks so much for being with us today. We appreciate your time so much, Andy, Sarah and B.J. Thanks -- Bill. HEMMER: Must-see TV one more time tonight.
HEMMER: Thirteen minutes before the hour. In a moment here, take a look at this, a construction worker injured on the job. An accident with an incredible outcome. Our own neurosurgeon, Sanjay Gupta, in a moment on this story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: There's a construction worker in California lucky to be alive, a bizarre construction accident back in April. Asidro Mejiha (ph) fell from a roof onto a co-worker, who was using a nail gun. Six nails were driven into his head. Amazing x-rays here. Doctors say three of the nails penetrated his brain. One entered his spine just below the base of his skull.
A neurosurgeon removed the nails at a hospital in L.A., says his recovery has been absolutely remarkable.
Mejiha (ph), who made his first public appearance yesterday since that accident, says he does not remember much about what happened.
Let's bring in our own neurosurgeon, Sanjay Gupta, here. Good morning to you, doctor. How do you survive something like that?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's really remarkable. First of all, it is -- when you look at the x-rays, and I just have a little demonstration here. I mean, this is a three and a half inch nail. Hold that up there. I'll just put it across my own forehead for a second, and you'll get a sense of just how significant a that will go into the brain there, six of them.
HEMMER: My!
GUPTA: The big thing -- the reason people would die from something like this is if it hits a major blood vessel. If you hit a major blood vessel, and it starts to bleed, that's when someone would die.
HEMMER: So, you're saying it's the area that is penetrated that is most critical?
GUPTA: Exactly. Now, he may have some deficits from this, neurological deficits. One of those nails, in particular, the one that's on the left side of his brain, actually is more likely to affect his speech area. There's a good chance he may have some difficulties with his speech longer term. But he's clearly going to survive this. Once you get the nails out and once there's no bleeding, you know, he's going to do pretty well with this.
HEMMER: If you were in the operating here, don't you have to be very precise about the removal?
GUPTA: Yes. I mean, that's the thing. You never want to just sort of pull these things out. You probably want to remove the bone around it first, really get a good sense of just how much bleeding there is going to be when you pull the nail out and be able to control that right away. But, you know, an unusual case for sure.
HEMMER: Yes, an amazing story of survival, too.
Another one that we saw here in New York City two days ago, this videotape of this helicopter from channel 4 WNBC. Stunning stuff to see this go out of control and eventually smash into the building, cascade down to another level. How in the world do three men survive a crash like this?
GUPTA: Again, really remarkable pictures there. The thing about this and what we always pay attention to in the medical world is something known as an acceleration/deceleration injury. It's not so much how fast you were going. It's how fast you were stopping. This situation, you see them slowing down there considerably. That's very significant. Then you're going to see three separate decelerations as you watch this footage here. There's the first one there. There's the second one there and now there's a third one. Had there just been one single deceleration, a really hard drop, as they say with the helicopters, that could have been much more significant for these...
HEMMER: Yesterday afternoon you were saying internally it's the organs that you have to worry about, that sudden pressure.
GUPTA: That's right. That sudden...
HEMMER: To get that thing to slow down.
GUPTA: Do you watch NASCAR?
HEMMER: Sure.
GUPTA: You see a car hit the wall, it seems rather innocuous, not that significant. The guy has a significant injury. The car goes tumbling over many, many times. You say, wow, it looks really bad. In fact, he guy gets right out. Why? Longer time to stop. That's the key.
HEMMER: Dale Earnhardt comes to mind, too, when you talk about that.
GUPTA: Exactly.
HEMMER: Thank you, Sanjay.
GUPTA: Thank you.
HEMMER: All right -- Heidi.
COLLINS: I get so upset when I see those pictures of that chopper.
CAFFERTY: There was a quote from the pilot in one of the New York papers this morning saying that there are crumple zones built into the cockpit area of that helicopter, and underneath the seats in particular. This thing landed straight up. That there's a place underneath that's designed specifically to absorb that impact shock before it travels up into the bodies of people inside.
(CROSSTALK)
CAFFERTY: The same thing as NASCAR, the same idea.
GUPTA: Yes.
CAFFERTY: And you can't take those nails out with a claw hammer. That wouldn't work.
GUPTA: You shouldn't.
CAFFERTY: Our producer comes on and says, well, I'd just use a hammer and pull it right out. That's why you are here, Ted. You know what I mean?
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld met with President Bush yesterday and reportedly was criticized for his handling of the Iraq prisoner issue. Tomorrow, Mr. Rumsfeld appears before a congressional committee, where lawmakers from both parties are angry that they found out about these pictures only when they surfaced in the media, even though the military had had them for months.
But questions remain: How far up the administration did this information go? And why wasn't it dealt with sooner at a higher level?
The question is this: Should Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld resign? We are getting tons of mail, and the preponderance of it so far suggests that he needs to go. But it's early.
John in Tallahassee, Florida, writes this: "Yes, he should resign, but not because of the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. He should resign for being hard-headed and stubborn. He was told we needed a larger military force and he rejected the report and forced the retirement of a four-star general, who didn't buy the official line."
Shirley in Florida: "No, he should have been fired on the spot, along with everyone in the chain of command. No excuses. The commander in chief should go with him in November."
And Valerie in San Antonio, Texas, says: "Rumsfeld should not resign any more than any of the people in this position prior or after should resign when six individuals in a very large army act so egregiously. That question shows how ignorant the media is, how leftist it is, and how its agenda is to keep this story in the press for as long as possible."
It sells newspaper, Valerie. You know what I mean?
Bret in Fort Worth, Texas, says: "He's the secretary of defense. His organization failed massively to uphold the honor and principles of America. We cannot claim to be liberating Iraq when we are dragging their people around on dog leashes. If Rummy (ph) didn't know about it, he should have. Being the commander means taking responsibility. It's time for him to fall on his sword." Those hearings tomorrow, those ought to be something.
HEMMER: Indeed they are. We're talking to two senators coming up in a moment here, both sides of the aisle, what questions they want answered tomorrow.
CAFFERTY: Sure.
HEMMER: We'll talk to them in a moment.
COLLINS: For now, though, still to come this morning, another car bombing in central Baghdad leaves several people dead, including an American soldier. Details on that straight ahead here on AMERICAN MORNING.
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