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American Morning

Latest News on Iraqi Prisoner Abuse Scandal; Car Bombing in Baghdad Kills Five

Aired May 06, 2004 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
President Bush dressing down the secretary of defense. Could Donald Rumsfeld take the fall for the Iraqi prison abuse scandal?

And is that scandal helping push the pendulum towards Senator John Kerry? What does new polling tell us today?

And a suicide bomber reaching the gate to the coalition green zone -- a deadly day in central Baghdad.

This hour on AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

HEMMER: Eight o'clock in New York.

Welcome here.

Going to be a great day in the city, by the way, if you're in the Northeast.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm so glad I was wrong.

HEMMER: Seventy and sunny. Yes, you were thinking rain all week.

COLLINS: Yes. Yes, just one nice day.

HEMMER: It should be nice, though.

COLLINS: Yes.

HEMMER: Soledad is out for the rest of the week, getting some good rest at home.

Heidi Collins here in New York City -- good morning again to you.

COLLINS: Good morning to you.

We are following quite a few stories this morning, including the president and how he went pretty far yesterday to appease an Arab world angry about the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. But some saying he didn't go far enough. We'll get reaction from the White House and Baghdad live in just a moment. HEMMER: Also, the Kobe Bryant matter -- the defense team trying to take a powerful word out of the mouths of prosecutors. A former sex crimes prosecutor today telling us if she thinks the defense can tell the state what it can and cannot stay at. We'll get to that in a moment.

COLLINS: Meanwhile, and right now we'll get to Jack Cafferty.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm sure they'd like if they could. It remains to be seen if they can, though.

Coming up in the Cafferty File, a computer repairman who gets paid to listen to other people complain. And a trip to the emergency room in Detroit can get you free tickets to a Tigers game. We'll explain how that works.

HEMMER: Nice.

COLLINS: Hmm, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CAFFERTY: Things to look forward to.

COLLINS: Yes, excellent.

Thanks so much, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

COLLINS: To the news now this morning.

Military officials say today's suicide bombing in Baghdad has the hallmarks of Zarqawi, a terrorist leader linked to al Qaeda. At least one U.S. soldier and six Iraqis were killed in the explosion near the coalition headquarters complex. Dozens of people were injured. A separate explosion in the Iraqi capital left two U.S. soldiers dead and two others wounded. Military officials say an improvised explosive device went off last night.

President Bush's job approval ratings appear to be slipping. A recent Gallup poll shows 49 percent of the people surveyed approve of the way the president is doing his job. That's down from 52 percent last month and down from 60 percent at the beginning of this year.

Israel's housing ministry has reportedly spent more than $6 million on construction of unauthorized settlements in the West Bank. According to a report, the housing ministry signed dozens of contracts for locations where construction was illegal. The contracts were signed between June 2000 and 2003.

A New Jersey couple accused of starving their four adopted sons have been indicted by a grand jury. Raymond and Vanessa Jackson are facing 28 counts of aggravated assault and endangering the welfare of a child. They were charged in October, after one of their 19-year-old sons was found looking through trash for food and weighed just 45 pounds. The couple maintains their innocence. And Martha Stewart will not be getting a new trial. A federal judge denied the request. Stewart's lawyers argued she did not get a fair trial because one of the jurors repeatedly lied on his questionnaire. Stewart is scheduled to be sentenced next month. She faces more than a year in prison for lying about selling her ImClone stock.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld joined tomorrow by Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers and a high ranking rep from the Army at a hastily arranged Capitol Hill hearing. The Senate Armed Services Committee is calling for answers about the deepening Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. The chairman, John Warner of Virginia, demanding that Rumsfeld appear and the panel's ranking Democrat suggesting that Rumsfeld should possibly resign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DW), SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: It's time for someone to step forward and take a hit for the team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Joe Biden from yesterday.

This morning's "Washington Post" today providing even further evidence of prisoner abuse. The paper has published several more photos taken inside Abu Ghraib Prison west of Baghdad. The U.S. soldier in the photo has been identified by her family as Private First Class Lynndie England. She's also been seen in earlier photos.

After they were made public, she reportedly told her mother, and quoting now, "I was at the wrong place at the wrong time."

More on what's happening from Washington and the White House.

Dana Bash is there -- good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

And on Donald Rumsfeld, Bill, the president publicly is saying that he has confidence in his defense secretary. But we are told in a private Oval Office meeting yesterday morning, the president scolded his defense secretary, essentially saying that he was upset about the process, that he was not satisfied by the way he was informed about those photographs. Specifically, he wasn't informed. He did not know, according to the White House, about the pictures until they aired on television last week.

Now, this, of course, is a president who prides himself on loyalty, Bill. The fact that the White House is making a point of letting it be known that he admonished his own defense secretary is an extraordinary example of the level of damage control this White House is now engaged in. And it's telling of how big of a problem they understand they have here now, not just on the perception of the U.S. around the world, but on their specific policies and the process in Iraq -- Bill.

HEMMER: Dana, get back to that point about when the president was informed of this. We are told they happened last fall, the abuse, anyway, happened last fall. The investigation starts in January. The report's done end of March, the first part of April.

But the White House is saying the president knew nothing until "60 Minutes II" broadcast these stories?

BASH: What they're saying is that he knew nothing about the photographs of these abuses. But the question of when he knew about the abuses at all, that is something that the White House still really can't answer, Bill. We were told earlier in the week that perhaps he was told after the Central -- the U.S. Central Command put out a notice in mid-January about these apparent abuses.

At this point, they are saying that they're not -- that they can't nail down a date when he was told by the defense secretary or by anybody at the Pentagon about the fact that these abuses even existed.

The other interesting point here is that the White House says that the president did not know about a report, a classified report cataloging these abuses. That was done early March. He didn't know about that, also, until it came out in the news.

HEMMER: Dana, thanks for that.

Dana Bash on the front lawn.

Senator Pat Roberts, a member of the Armed Services Committee that will hear tomorrow from Secretary Rumsfeld.

Senator Roberts our guest today on Capitol Hill.

Good morning, Senator.

Welcome back here to AMERICAN MORNING.

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-MS), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Yes, Bill, thank you for the opportunity.

HEMMER: Listen, the reports say the president is not happy with Donald Rumsfeld.

Does he have reason to be, Senator?

ROBERTS: I don't know anybody that's happy about this. We had a hearing yesterday with the military intelligence and with the CIA. I'm at least happy to report that to date -- I emphasize to date -- we have no evidence of anybody in the intelligence community directing this kind of abuse. But that door is still wide open.

There are five investigations. Six are being charged in a criminal way and then we have seven of the NCOs and officers who have received a reprimanded, which, in effect, is the end of their career. But we don't know where this is going to lead. We hope that the secretary of defense can certainly, well, really provide just a lot more transparency. And there are more questions and more questions and more questions.

HEMMER: Senator, yesterday, in part of your statement, you said, and quoting now, "It's a failure of judgment. It appears to be a failure of discipline and a failure of leadership."

ROBERTS: Yes, I did.

HEMMER: When Secretary Rumsfeld sits before you tomorrow, what question do you want answered the most?

ROBERTS: Oh, there's a whole series of questions as to why on earth, when this report was available to the appropriate command within the Army -- and I understand this -- when did he learn about it and why on earth was the president not informed and why on earth were not members of the Intelligence Committee and the Armed Services Committee informed?

You know, one of the things I think we could do, there are 4,800 detainees in this prison that stems from the Saddam Hussein days. I think we ought to raze the building. Twenty-six percent of those people are going to be released anyway. It is not secure. It has a road right between it. It is a real secure problem. Talk about a symbol that we ought to get rid of, as far as I'm concerned, to send a message to the Arab world, I think that's important.

Let me say one other thing. The continued interrogation of prisoners is absolutely essential for force protection of our troops there and the mission in Iraq. You just had a story about yet another suicide bomber. We get information like that from the prisoners, but we do it in a way that certainly is in accord with the Geneva Convention. And one other thing, I think the Red Cross out to be there. I think the Red Cross ought to observe everything that we're doing.

HEMMER: Senator, we have heard from so many critics who contend that these pictures helped to ruin the reputations of tens of thousands of American men and women right now trying to rebuild Iraq and fight a war at the same time and stay alive.

Ultimately, Senator, who takes responsibility in this?

ROBERTS: Well, I think ultimately you have to go right up the chain to the secretary of defense or to the civilian leadership of the military.

But let me point out that exactly what you've said, I don't know how many of our people that I have talked to in Kansas who have returned home to base who are very proud of the work that they have done. And then you get this kind of incident that just puts a terrible, terrible stain on the good work that our men and women in uniform have done. We can't, you know, we can't ignore that. I might also point out there's a big difference between these kind of activities and pictures and the rape and the murder and the torture that went on in that prison in a prior -- a prior regime. I also notice that some of the critics, in regards to the Muslim nations, haven't said one word when we get into a similar situation where our people are at risk.

But that really doesn't make any difference. We're America. We're different. As the president has indicated, this is not what we stand for and we have to insist on all questions being asked. We will get to the bottom of this.

HEMMER: Republican Senator Pat Roberts, thanks for your time today.

Appreciate your thoughts here.

ROBERTS: Yes, sir.

HEMMER: All right, Democratic Senator Joe Lieberman our guest next hour on this very topic yet again. He'll also answer and ask questions tomorrow on Capitol Hill -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Another deadly day in the Iraqi capital. A car bomb exploded at the gates of what's called the green zone, where the U.S.- led administration has its offices.

For all the details now, we go to Baghdad, where our Ben Wedeman is standing by -- Ben, hello. BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Heidi.

Well, coalition officials are saying that they see all the hallmarks in this car bomb of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. That's that Jordanian national who is believed to have links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network and a man who the coalition says has been behind, or they believe has been behind many of the car bombings that have wracked this country over the last several months.

Now, the bomb went off at about 7:30 a.m. local time at a checkpoint manned by Iraqi police and U.S. troops. That checkpoint on a road leading to the so-called green zone, where the Coalition Authority is housed. Seven people were killed, five of them Iraqi civilians, one U.S. soldier, in addition to the suicide bomber. Nothing is known about him at this point.

The bomb went off next to a line of workers who were waiting to get inside the green zone at the time. In addition to those fatalities, 25, at least 25 people were wounded, among them three Iraqi policemen and two American soldiers.

Now, according to coalition officials with information on the blast, the bomb contained artillery rounds. Many pieces of shrapnel from those rounds littered around the spot where the car bomb blew up.

Now, this is the first car bomb in Baghdad since March 17th, when a blast went off outside a hotel, killing seven people. In addition to this jarring incident this morning, overnight, two American soldiers were killed in Sadr City. That's a predominantly Shiite neighborhood of Baghdad. That, those fatalities occurring as a result of a roadside bomb.

Also in Sadr City, 10 suspected insurgents were killed when they tried to ambush a U.S. convoy. No U.S. troops were reported injured in that incident -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Ben Wedeman live from Baghdad this morning.

Ben, thanks so much.

HEMMER: In a moment here, Kobe Bryant's attorneys say there is one word they do not want prosecutors to use in that case. Will the judge agree to it? We'll check it out in a moment.

COLLINS: And celebrity status -- how do you get it, how do you keep it? We'll talk with the author of the new book about the importance of being famous, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: If Kobe Bryant's attorneys have their way, prosecutors in the sexual assault case won't be able to use the word victim when referring to the accuser. Bryant's defense team says the word implies he is guilty. They've filed a motion asking that she be referred to by name or as complaining witness.

Linda Fairstein, former sex-crimes prosecutor and author of the best-selling book, "The Kills," is joining us now to talk more about the semantics strategy.

Maybe it is semantics, but maybe it's more than that.

What do you think the defense is up to here? It's kind of calculating, isn't it?

LINDA FAIRSTEIN, FORMER SEX-CRIMES PROSECUTOR, AUTHOR, "THE KILLS": It's very smart and it's something that's not often done before a trial. But these are very good attorneys, as we've seen all along. Usually the prosecution begins eliciting testimony. Cops will talk about the witness often as the victim. And, in fact, she is not the victim until, at the end of a case, a jury has decided, if they do, that a defendant is guilty.

So it's smart before the jury starts to hear the word over and over through the prosecution case to ask up front that she not be referred to as a victim, but as a complaining witness.

COLLINS: So technically very sound. But really, what sort of impact do you think that has? Once the jury hears the word victim, is that something they just can't get out of their heads?

FAIRSTEIN: You can't quite measure. But if they hear it over and over again during the trial, if they begin referring to her in their deliberations as the victim, it's a mind set and it's very smart for the defense to try and get it out of the case before we even get started.

COLLINS: Have you ever done this when you were prosecuting sex crimes in New York? Have you ever tried to slip that word victim in there?

FAIRSTEIN: Sure. Sure. You very often, I mean it's rare that a defense team specializes in sexual assault. And so frequently it is the way detectives, it is the way nurses or people in hospitals will refer to the person they've met. And I think it is mostly semantics. But very often it will be the middle of the trial before a defense attorney would stand up and say objection, she can't use the word victim.

So it's good to do it this way, I think, for the defense team.

COLLINS: Well, we all remember back when Pamela Mackey, the defense attorney, of course, used the victim's name at least six times in open court. This was back in the fall.

Any chance that the judge will change his minute and allow the accuser's name to actually be used now?

FAIRSTEIN: Well, whether or not the trial is going to be open, I mean if the trial is open, whether or not there are cameras in the courtroom, I think the issues that we're going to see discussed next week and decided next week, I think at some point her name will be used in the courtroom, would be my guess. And then there becomes the issue of whether or not the media chooses to use that name. Does the actual name add anything to the public knowledge or information about the case?

COLLINS: Yes, especially after everything that we've been hearing about threats on her life, apparent threats on her life and not being able to live in Eagle anymore.

Does that change things?

FAIRSTEIN: Well, I think there's been a long debate for years -- one of the other networks 15 years ago named a victim in a very high profile case before she was ready to name herself. And the argument was what does it tell the public to know the name when we know everything else about her?

COLLINS: Sure.

FAIRSTEIN: So I think still, the media tends to be reluctant to do it, and whether or not it has a value in the actual courtroom when the case is being tried is a different issue.

COLLINS: Yes, and a big one at that.

FAIRSTEIN: Yes.

COLLINS: All right, Linda Fairstein, thanks so much for being with us today.

FAIRSTEIN: Thank you, Heidi.

COLLINS: Appreciate it -- Bill.

HEMMER: Picking up on a topic we talked a lot about yesterday, Miramax Films confirming that its parent company, Walt Disney, will not allow the release of Michael Moore's new documentary. It's a film called "Fahrenheit 911," critical of the White House and President Bush.

Last night on "NewsNight," Aaron Brown asked Moore why Disney wants to withhold that film.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM CNN'S "NEWSNIGHT")

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: Michael Eisner went and had a meeting with my agent, Ari Emanuel at Endeavor, and told him at this meeting that there's no way he will allow Miramax to distribute Michael Moore's film because in doing so, it will anger Jeb Bush and put Disney at risk in Florida. They were up for millions of dollars of tax abatements, tax incentives, whatever.

AARON BROWN, HOST: They deny -- they don't deny the meeting, obviously, with the agent. They deny that they said that.

No doubt in your mind that was said?

MOORE: No. No doubt at all.

BROWN: OK.

MOORE: Oh, absolutely not. In fact, I got a phone call immediately after the meeting. I was told this. And we decided, along with Miramax, to do our best to try and convince Disney to do the right thing. And we've spent months trying to do that. We've been very quiet about this and...

BROWN: This has, it's gone on pretty much a year, hasn't it?

MOORE: Yes, that's right.

BROWN: Why not a year ago just go find another way to get the movie out there?

MOORE: Because a year ago we were already making the film. We already had a deal. We had a contract with Miramax to distribute the film and this happened all after we did this deal. And Miramax felt very confident that Disney, once they saw the film, would distribute it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Michael Moore again with Aaron Brown last night on "NewsNight."

A Miramax spokesman says the company hopes to "amicably resolve the situation in the near future." COLLINS: Still to come, did Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld keep President Bush in the dark about the Iraq prison abuse scandal? We'll go live to Capitol Hill for more on that.

And fun time on a trampoline turns into one very scary ride. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: From Baghdad a few moments ago, Ambassador Paul Bremer talking about the hand over end of June.

Listen for a moment here in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. PAUL BREMER, U.S./IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATOR: ... have spread lawlessness, fear and economic paralysis, especially in al- Najaf and Karbala. These lawless elements...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Well, as Paul Bremer continues there, a couple bits of news today. This car bombing there at the Coalition Authority headquarters in central Baghdad killing at least one U.S. soldier there and about a half dozen other Iraqis. That's Topic A today in Baghdad.

Also, more fallout from these pictures. The "Washington Post" printing more of those photos today. And, again, Secretary Rumsfeld tomorrow on Capitol Hill.

When Ambassador Bremer makes news again out of that press conference, we'll get you back there live.

In the meantime, here's Heidi again.

COLLINS: And in the meantime here's Jack and the Question of the Day (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CAFFERTY: In the meantime, here I am.

Thank you.

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld met with President Bush yesterday and reportedly was criticized for his handling of the Iraqi prisoner issue. Tomorrow, Rumsfeld appears before a congressional committee. That ought to be pretty good. Law makers from both parties angry that they only found out about these pictures when they surfaced in the media, even though the military had had them for months.

The question remains, how far up did this information go and why wasn't it dealt with sooner at a higher level?

The Question of the Day is whether or not you think Donald Rumsfeld should resign as the secretary of defense.

Jackie in Morrow, Ohio: "Truman said the buck stops here. Kennedy took ownership of the Bay of Pigs fiasco. Let's put the responsibility for the inhumane torture of Iraqis on the architect of this unholy war. Rumsfeld resign -- hell, yes! But it's the commander-in-chief who should accept his culpability."

Dale in Sciota, Pennsylvania: "I don't believe Donald Rumsfeld should resign over Iraqi prison abuse. I think it's very strange that in an election year, this has come about. President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld cannot be held totally responsible for a few bad eggs in the military."

Paul writes from Hellertown, P.A.: "It would appear the most objective targets of blame would be the president, Rumsfeld and/or the military. But no entity plays the blame game better than the Republicans. Just like the flagging economy, the deficit and September 11, somehow all of this will become President Clinton's fault."

And Jerileah in Ridgecrest, California: "Removing Rumsfeld is a good idea, except for one thing -- does Wolfowitz move into his spot? It's like asking which is uglier, the frog or the toad? Please, just drain the swamp altogether."

I love our viewers. They say things that we can't, you see.

HEMMER: Yes, they do.

CAFFERTY: Yes. That's why...

HEMMER: Someone suggests --

CAFFERTY: That's why I like them.

HEMMER: ... tonight is must see TV with the "Friends." Others are saying tomorrow with Secretary Rumsfeld there on Capitol Hill.

CAFFERTY: Oh, absolutely.

HEMMER: That might be the thing to watch.

CAFFERTY: That'll be better. Yes, I mean I haven't seen "Friends," but I'm going to watch that Rumsfeld deal tomorrow.

HEMMER: Done.

This prison, by the way, is enormous. It runs right along...

CAFFERTY: You've been over there.

HEMMER: Yes, and that site...

CAFFERTY: Have you been to that prison?

HEMMER: It's huge. I'll tell you, the one thing that I remember so much about the prison there was the highway on the outside. There are stretches of that road where you cannot go a hundred yards without some sort of charred pavement on the road because this is the origination point for all the improvised explosive devices that have killed so many members of the U.S. military. It is all over that pavement now, that highway outside the prison.

CAFFERTY: Wow.

HEMMER: A big place.

COLLINS: All right, well, still to come this morning, there were three people inside this news helicopter when it went out of control over New York City. How are they doing now? We'll tell you about that in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired May 6, 2004 - 08:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
President Bush dressing down the secretary of defense. Could Donald Rumsfeld take the fall for the Iraqi prison abuse scandal?

And is that scandal helping push the pendulum towards Senator John Kerry? What does new polling tell us today?

And a suicide bomber reaching the gate to the coalition green zone -- a deadly day in central Baghdad.

This hour on AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

HEMMER: Eight o'clock in New York.

Welcome here.

Going to be a great day in the city, by the way, if you're in the Northeast.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm so glad I was wrong.

HEMMER: Seventy and sunny. Yes, you were thinking rain all week.

COLLINS: Yes. Yes, just one nice day.

HEMMER: It should be nice, though.

COLLINS: Yes.

HEMMER: Soledad is out for the rest of the week, getting some good rest at home.

Heidi Collins here in New York City -- good morning again to you.

COLLINS: Good morning to you.

We are following quite a few stories this morning, including the president and how he went pretty far yesterday to appease an Arab world angry about the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. But some saying he didn't go far enough. We'll get reaction from the White House and Baghdad live in just a moment. HEMMER: Also, the Kobe Bryant matter -- the defense team trying to take a powerful word out of the mouths of prosecutors. A former sex crimes prosecutor today telling us if she thinks the defense can tell the state what it can and cannot stay at. We'll get to that in a moment.

COLLINS: Meanwhile, and right now we'll get to Jack Cafferty.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm sure they'd like if they could. It remains to be seen if they can, though.

Coming up in the Cafferty File, a computer repairman who gets paid to listen to other people complain. And a trip to the emergency room in Detroit can get you free tickets to a Tigers game. We'll explain how that works.

HEMMER: Nice.

COLLINS: Hmm, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CAFFERTY: Things to look forward to.

COLLINS: Yes, excellent.

Thanks so much, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

COLLINS: To the news now this morning.

Military officials say today's suicide bombing in Baghdad has the hallmarks of Zarqawi, a terrorist leader linked to al Qaeda. At least one U.S. soldier and six Iraqis were killed in the explosion near the coalition headquarters complex. Dozens of people were injured. A separate explosion in the Iraqi capital left two U.S. soldiers dead and two others wounded. Military officials say an improvised explosive device went off last night.

President Bush's job approval ratings appear to be slipping. A recent Gallup poll shows 49 percent of the people surveyed approve of the way the president is doing his job. That's down from 52 percent last month and down from 60 percent at the beginning of this year.

Israel's housing ministry has reportedly spent more than $6 million on construction of unauthorized settlements in the West Bank. According to a report, the housing ministry signed dozens of contracts for locations where construction was illegal. The contracts were signed between June 2000 and 2003.

A New Jersey couple accused of starving their four adopted sons have been indicted by a grand jury. Raymond and Vanessa Jackson are facing 28 counts of aggravated assault and endangering the welfare of a child. They were charged in October, after one of their 19-year-old sons was found looking through trash for food and weighed just 45 pounds. The couple maintains their innocence. And Martha Stewart will not be getting a new trial. A federal judge denied the request. Stewart's lawyers argued she did not get a fair trial because one of the jurors repeatedly lied on his questionnaire. Stewart is scheduled to be sentenced next month. She faces more than a year in prison for lying about selling her ImClone stock.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld joined tomorrow by Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers and a high ranking rep from the Army at a hastily arranged Capitol Hill hearing. The Senate Armed Services Committee is calling for answers about the deepening Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. The chairman, John Warner of Virginia, demanding that Rumsfeld appear and the panel's ranking Democrat suggesting that Rumsfeld should possibly resign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DW), SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: It's time for someone to step forward and take a hit for the team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Joe Biden from yesterday.

This morning's "Washington Post" today providing even further evidence of prisoner abuse. The paper has published several more photos taken inside Abu Ghraib Prison west of Baghdad. The U.S. soldier in the photo has been identified by her family as Private First Class Lynndie England. She's also been seen in earlier photos.

After they were made public, she reportedly told her mother, and quoting now, "I was at the wrong place at the wrong time."

More on what's happening from Washington and the White House.

Dana Bash is there -- good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

And on Donald Rumsfeld, Bill, the president publicly is saying that he has confidence in his defense secretary. But we are told in a private Oval Office meeting yesterday morning, the president scolded his defense secretary, essentially saying that he was upset about the process, that he was not satisfied by the way he was informed about those photographs. Specifically, he wasn't informed. He did not know, according to the White House, about the pictures until they aired on television last week.

Now, this, of course, is a president who prides himself on loyalty, Bill. The fact that the White House is making a point of letting it be known that he admonished his own defense secretary is an extraordinary example of the level of damage control this White House is now engaged in. And it's telling of how big of a problem they understand they have here now, not just on the perception of the U.S. around the world, but on their specific policies and the process in Iraq -- Bill.

HEMMER: Dana, get back to that point about when the president was informed of this. We are told they happened last fall, the abuse, anyway, happened last fall. The investigation starts in January. The report's done end of March, the first part of April.

But the White House is saying the president knew nothing until "60 Minutes II" broadcast these stories?

BASH: What they're saying is that he knew nothing about the photographs of these abuses. But the question of when he knew about the abuses at all, that is something that the White House still really can't answer, Bill. We were told earlier in the week that perhaps he was told after the Central -- the U.S. Central Command put out a notice in mid-January about these apparent abuses.

At this point, they are saying that they're not -- that they can't nail down a date when he was told by the defense secretary or by anybody at the Pentagon about the fact that these abuses even existed.

The other interesting point here is that the White House says that the president did not know about a report, a classified report cataloging these abuses. That was done early March. He didn't know about that, also, until it came out in the news.

HEMMER: Dana, thanks for that.

Dana Bash on the front lawn.

Senator Pat Roberts, a member of the Armed Services Committee that will hear tomorrow from Secretary Rumsfeld.

Senator Roberts our guest today on Capitol Hill.

Good morning, Senator.

Welcome back here to AMERICAN MORNING.

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R-MS), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Yes, Bill, thank you for the opportunity.

HEMMER: Listen, the reports say the president is not happy with Donald Rumsfeld.

Does he have reason to be, Senator?

ROBERTS: I don't know anybody that's happy about this. We had a hearing yesterday with the military intelligence and with the CIA. I'm at least happy to report that to date -- I emphasize to date -- we have no evidence of anybody in the intelligence community directing this kind of abuse. But that door is still wide open.

There are five investigations. Six are being charged in a criminal way and then we have seven of the NCOs and officers who have received a reprimanded, which, in effect, is the end of their career. But we don't know where this is going to lead. We hope that the secretary of defense can certainly, well, really provide just a lot more transparency. And there are more questions and more questions and more questions.

HEMMER: Senator, yesterday, in part of your statement, you said, and quoting now, "It's a failure of judgment. It appears to be a failure of discipline and a failure of leadership."

ROBERTS: Yes, I did.

HEMMER: When Secretary Rumsfeld sits before you tomorrow, what question do you want answered the most?

ROBERTS: Oh, there's a whole series of questions as to why on earth, when this report was available to the appropriate command within the Army -- and I understand this -- when did he learn about it and why on earth was the president not informed and why on earth were not members of the Intelligence Committee and the Armed Services Committee informed?

You know, one of the things I think we could do, there are 4,800 detainees in this prison that stems from the Saddam Hussein days. I think we ought to raze the building. Twenty-six percent of those people are going to be released anyway. It is not secure. It has a road right between it. It is a real secure problem. Talk about a symbol that we ought to get rid of, as far as I'm concerned, to send a message to the Arab world, I think that's important.

Let me say one other thing. The continued interrogation of prisoners is absolutely essential for force protection of our troops there and the mission in Iraq. You just had a story about yet another suicide bomber. We get information like that from the prisoners, but we do it in a way that certainly is in accord with the Geneva Convention. And one other thing, I think the Red Cross out to be there. I think the Red Cross ought to observe everything that we're doing.

HEMMER: Senator, we have heard from so many critics who contend that these pictures helped to ruin the reputations of tens of thousands of American men and women right now trying to rebuild Iraq and fight a war at the same time and stay alive.

Ultimately, Senator, who takes responsibility in this?

ROBERTS: Well, I think ultimately you have to go right up the chain to the secretary of defense or to the civilian leadership of the military.

But let me point out that exactly what you've said, I don't know how many of our people that I have talked to in Kansas who have returned home to base who are very proud of the work that they have done. And then you get this kind of incident that just puts a terrible, terrible stain on the good work that our men and women in uniform have done. We can't, you know, we can't ignore that. I might also point out there's a big difference between these kind of activities and pictures and the rape and the murder and the torture that went on in that prison in a prior -- a prior regime. I also notice that some of the critics, in regards to the Muslim nations, haven't said one word when we get into a similar situation where our people are at risk.

But that really doesn't make any difference. We're America. We're different. As the president has indicated, this is not what we stand for and we have to insist on all questions being asked. We will get to the bottom of this.

HEMMER: Republican Senator Pat Roberts, thanks for your time today.

Appreciate your thoughts here.

ROBERTS: Yes, sir.

HEMMER: All right, Democratic Senator Joe Lieberman our guest next hour on this very topic yet again. He'll also answer and ask questions tomorrow on Capitol Hill -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Another deadly day in the Iraqi capital. A car bomb exploded at the gates of what's called the green zone, where the U.S.- led administration has its offices.

For all the details now, we go to Baghdad, where our Ben Wedeman is standing by -- Ben, hello. BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Heidi.

Well, coalition officials are saying that they see all the hallmarks in this car bomb of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. That's that Jordanian national who is believed to have links with Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network and a man who the coalition says has been behind, or they believe has been behind many of the car bombings that have wracked this country over the last several months.

Now, the bomb went off at about 7:30 a.m. local time at a checkpoint manned by Iraqi police and U.S. troops. That checkpoint on a road leading to the so-called green zone, where the Coalition Authority is housed. Seven people were killed, five of them Iraqi civilians, one U.S. soldier, in addition to the suicide bomber. Nothing is known about him at this point.

The bomb went off next to a line of workers who were waiting to get inside the green zone at the time. In addition to those fatalities, 25, at least 25 people were wounded, among them three Iraqi policemen and two American soldiers.

Now, according to coalition officials with information on the blast, the bomb contained artillery rounds. Many pieces of shrapnel from those rounds littered around the spot where the car bomb blew up.

Now, this is the first car bomb in Baghdad since March 17th, when a blast went off outside a hotel, killing seven people. In addition to this jarring incident this morning, overnight, two American soldiers were killed in Sadr City. That's a predominantly Shiite neighborhood of Baghdad. That, those fatalities occurring as a result of a roadside bomb.

Also in Sadr City, 10 suspected insurgents were killed when they tried to ambush a U.S. convoy. No U.S. troops were reported injured in that incident -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Ben Wedeman live from Baghdad this morning.

Ben, thanks so much.

HEMMER: In a moment here, Kobe Bryant's attorneys say there is one word they do not want prosecutors to use in that case. Will the judge agree to it? We'll check it out in a moment.

COLLINS: And celebrity status -- how do you get it, how do you keep it? We'll talk with the author of the new book about the importance of being famous, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: If Kobe Bryant's attorneys have their way, prosecutors in the sexual assault case won't be able to use the word victim when referring to the accuser. Bryant's defense team says the word implies he is guilty. They've filed a motion asking that she be referred to by name or as complaining witness.

Linda Fairstein, former sex-crimes prosecutor and author of the best-selling book, "The Kills," is joining us now to talk more about the semantics strategy.

Maybe it is semantics, but maybe it's more than that.

What do you think the defense is up to here? It's kind of calculating, isn't it?

LINDA FAIRSTEIN, FORMER SEX-CRIMES PROSECUTOR, AUTHOR, "THE KILLS": It's very smart and it's something that's not often done before a trial. But these are very good attorneys, as we've seen all along. Usually the prosecution begins eliciting testimony. Cops will talk about the witness often as the victim. And, in fact, she is not the victim until, at the end of a case, a jury has decided, if they do, that a defendant is guilty.

So it's smart before the jury starts to hear the word over and over through the prosecution case to ask up front that she not be referred to as a victim, but as a complaining witness.

COLLINS: So technically very sound. But really, what sort of impact do you think that has? Once the jury hears the word victim, is that something they just can't get out of their heads?

FAIRSTEIN: You can't quite measure. But if they hear it over and over again during the trial, if they begin referring to her in their deliberations as the victim, it's a mind set and it's very smart for the defense to try and get it out of the case before we even get started.

COLLINS: Have you ever done this when you were prosecuting sex crimes in New York? Have you ever tried to slip that word victim in there?

FAIRSTEIN: Sure. Sure. You very often, I mean it's rare that a defense team specializes in sexual assault. And so frequently it is the way detectives, it is the way nurses or people in hospitals will refer to the person they've met. And I think it is mostly semantics. But very often it will be the middle of the trial before a defense attorney would stand up and say objection, she can't use the word victim.

So it's good to do it this way, I think, for the defense team.

COLLINS: Well, we all remember back when Pamela Mackey, the defense attorney, of course, used the victim's name at least six times in open court. This was back in the fall.

Any chance that the judge will change his minute and allow the accuser's name to actually be used now?

FAIRSTEIN: Well, whether or not the trial is going to be open, I mean if the trial is open, whether or not there are cameras in the courtroom, I think the issues that we're going to see discussed next week and decided next week, I think at some point her name will be used in the courtroom, would be my guess. And then there becomes the issue of whether or not the media chooses to use that name. Does the actual name add anything to the public knowledge or information about the case?

COLLINS: Yes, especially after everything that we've been hearing about threats on her life, apparent threats on her life and not being able to live in Eagle anymore.

Does that change things?

FAIRSTEIN: Well, I think there's been a long debate for years -- one of the other networks 15 years ago named a victim in a very high profile case before she was ready to name herself. And the argument was what does it tell the public to know the name when we know everything else about her?

COLLINS: Sure.

FAIRSTEIN: So I think still, the media tends to be reluctant to do it, and whether or not it has a value in the actual courtroom when the case is being tried is a different issue.

COLLINS: Yes, and a big one at that.

FAIRSTEIN: Yes.

COLLINS: All right, Linda Fairstein, thanks so much for being with us today.

FAIRSTEIN: Thank you, Heidi.

COLLINS: Appreciate it -- Bill.

HEMMER: Picking up on a topic we talked a lot about yesterday, Miramax Films confirming that its parent company, Walt Disney, will not allow the release of Michael Moore's new documentary. It's a film called "Fahrenheit 911," critical of the White House and President Bush.

Last night on "NewsNight," Aaron Brown asked Moore why Disney wants to withhold that film.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM CNN'S "NEWSNIGHT")

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER: Michael Eisner went and had a meeting with my agent, Ari Emanuel at Endeavor, and told him at this meeting that there's no way he will allow Miramax to distribute Michael Moore's film because in doing so, it will anger Jeb Bush and put Disney at risk in Florida. They were up for millions of dollars of tax abatements, tax incentives, whatever.

AARON BROWN, HOST: They deny -- they don't deny the meeting, obviously, with the agent. They deny that they said that.

No doubt in your mind that was said?

MOORE: No. No doubt at all.

BROWN: OK.

MOORE: Oh, absolutely not. In fact, I got a phone call immediately after the meeting. I was told this. And we decided, along with Miramax, to do our best to try and convince Disney to do the right thing. And we've spent months trying to do that. We've been very quiet about this and...

BROWN: This has, it's gone on pretty much a year, hasn't it?

MOORE: Yes, that's right.

BROWN: Why not a year ago just go find another way to get the movie out there?

MOORE: Because a year ago we were already making the film. We already had a deal. We had a contract with Miramax to distribute the film and this happened all after we did this deal. And Miramax felt very confident that Disney, once they saw the film, would distribute it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Michael Moore again with Aaron Brown last night on "NewsNight."

A Miramax spokesman says the company hopes to "amicably resolve the situation in the near future." COLLINS: Still to come, did Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld keep President Bush in the dark about the Iraq prison abuse scandal? We'll go live to Capitol Hill for more on that.

And fun time on a trampoline turns into one very scary ride. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: From Baghdad a few moments ago, Ambassador Paul Bremer talking about the hand over end of June.

Listen for a moment here in Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. PAUL BREMER, U.S./IRAQ RECONSTRUCTION ADMINISTRATOR: ... have spread lawlessness, fear and economic paralysis, especially in al- Najaf and Karbala. These lawless elements...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Well, as Paul Bremer continues there, a couple bits of news today. This car bombing there at the Coalition Authority headquarters in central Baghdad killing at least one U.S. soldier there and about a half dozen other Iraqis. That's Topic A today in Baghdad.

Also, more fallout from these pictures. The "Washington Post" printing more of those photos today. And, again, Secretary Rumsfeld tomorrow on Capitol Hill.

When Ambassador Bremer makes news again out of that press conference, we'll get you back there live.

In the meantime, here's Heidi again.

COLLINS: And in the meantime here's Jack and the Question of the Day (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CAFFERTY: In the meantime, here I am.

Thank you.

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld met with President Bush yesterday and reportedly was criticized for his handling of the Iraqi prisoner issue. Tomorrow, Rumsfeld appears before a congressional committee. That ought to be pretty good. Law makers from both parties angry that they only found out about these pictures when they surfaced in the media, even though the military had had them for months.

The question remains, how far up did this information go and why wasn't it dealt with sooner at a higher level?

The Question of the Day is whether or not you think Donald Rumsfeld should resign as the secretary of defense.

Jackie in Morrow, Ohio: "Truman said the buck stops here. Kennedy took ownership of the Bay of Pigs fiasco. Let's put the responsibility for the inhumane torture of Iraqis on the architect of this unholy war. Rumsfeld resign -- hell, yes! But it's the commander-in-chief who should accept his culpability."

Dale in Sciota, Pennsylvania: "I don't believe Donald Rumsfeld should resign over Iraqi prison abuse. I think it's very strange that in an election year, this has come about. President Bush and Donald Rumsfeld cannot be held totally responsible for a few bad eggs in the military."

Paul writes from Hellertown, P.A.: "It would appear the most objective targets of blame would be the president, Rumsfeld and/or the military. But no entity plays the blame game better than the Republicans. Just like the flagging economy, the deficit and September 11, somehow all of this will become President Clinton's fault."

And Jerileah in Ridgecrest, California: "Removing Rumsfeld is a good idea, except for one thing -- does Wolfowitz move into his spot? It's like asking which is uglier, the frog or the toad? Please, just drain the swamp altogether."

I love our viewers. They say things that we can't, you see.

HEMMER: Yes, they do.

CAFFERTY: Yes. That's why...

HEMMER: Someone suggests --

CAFFERTY: That's why I like them.

HEMMER: ... tonight is must see TV with the "Friends." Others are saying tomorrow with Secretary Rumsfeld there on Capitol Hill.

CAFFERTY: Oh, absolutely.

HEMMER: That might be the thing to watch.

CAFFERTY: That'll be better. Yes, I mean I haven't seen "Friends," but I'm going to watch that Rumsfeld deal tomorrow.

HEMMER: Done.

This prison, by the way, is enormous. It runs right along...

CAFFERTY: You've been over there.

HEMMER: Yes, and that site...

CAFFERTY: Have you been to that prison?

HEMMER: It's huge. I'll tell you, the one thing that I remember so much about the prison there was the highway on the outside. There are stretches of that road where you cannot go a hundred yards without some sort of charred pavement on the road because this is the origination point for all the improvised explosive devices that have killed so many members of the U.S. military. It is all over that pavement now, that highway outside the prison.

CAFFERTY: Wow.

HEMMER: A big place.

COLLINS: All right, well, still to come this morning, there were three people inside this news helicopter when it went out of control over New York City. How are they doing now? We'll tell you about that in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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