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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Interview With Sen. Bob Graham; Massive Car Bomb Explodes In Baghdad; President Bush, John Kerry In Dead Heat For Presidency
Aired May 06, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): New images of abuse. They're adding fuel to the fire and the heat's on Donald Rumsfeld.
SEN. TOM HARKIN (D), IOWA: It's because of Secretary Rumsfeld's actions, his statements and his policies over the last couple of years directly, I believe, led to these kinds of activities.
BLITZER: Should Rumsfeld resign?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's an important part of my cabinet and he'll stay in my cabinet.
BLITZER: I'll speak with Senate Intelligence Chairman Pat Roberts and his predecessor, Senator Bob Graham.
Battleground. A suicide strike in Baghdad as U.S. troops storm Shi'ite strong holds. We're on the scene.
A new hostage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a Muslim. His mom is Muslim. He's got three little kids.
BLITZER: The final journey. While the Pentagon keeps U.S. war dead out of sight, Britain brings home its fallen with full ceremony.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Thursday, May 6, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: He's now the lightning rod for outrage over the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. And some Democrats in Congress are now calling for his head. Donald Rumsfeld was out of sight today preparing for crucial testimony tomorrow morning before a Senate committee. But President Bush came to the defense of his defense secretary even as new images of abuse surfaced.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): With Jordan's King Abdullah at his side in the White House Rose Garden, President Bush took a step closer to formally apologizing to the Iraqi people.
BUSH: I told him I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners. And the humiliation suffered by their families.
BLITZER: Although he said he was sick to his stomach by the pictures, he rejected growing demands for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign.
BUSH: Secretary Rumsfeld is a really good secretary of defense. Secretary Rumsfeld has served our nation well. Secretary Rumsfeld has been the secretary during two wars. And he is an important part of my cabinet and he'll stay in my cabinet.
BLITZER: Still, the president confirmed his irritation that he had learned about the allegations only after they were reported in the news media.
BUSH: I should have known about the pictures and the report.
BLITZER: The president spoke on a day that "The Washington Post" published four more pictures showing Iraqi detainees being mistreated at the Abu Ghraib Prison, including this shot of a female M.P. holding a leash to a naked man's neck lying on the prison floor.
The political fallout is clearly escalating amid angry recriminations. Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry lashed out at the president and his advisers.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As president I will not be the last to know what is going on in my command.
BLITZER: On Capitol Hill, Democrats were lining up, calling for Rumsfeld to leave office.
HARKIN: For the benefit of the United States, for our country, I believe Mr. Rumsfeld has to resign.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Mr. Rumsfeld has been engaged in a cover-up from the start on this issue and continues to be so.
REP. CHARLES RANGEL, (D), NEW YORK: If the president doesn't fire the secretary, if he doesn't resign, I think it's the responsibility of this Congress to file articles of impeachment and force him to leave office.
BLITZER: But Republican leaders reject that, accusing Democrats of playing politics in this election year.
REP. TOM DELAY (D-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: They want to win the White House more than they want to win the war. And our enemies know it.
I'm not questioning their patriotism. Don't let them play that little game again. I'm questioning their judgment and their fitness to lead.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Donald Rumsfeld always seems to maintain an air of confidence but can he keep his cool when he comes in for a grilling tomorrow morning on Capitol Hill? Let's go live to our Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre. Jamie, what's the sense over there?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Aides to Rumsfeld describe him as upbeat and anxious to tell his side of the story. According to some of the senators who had breakfast with him this morning, he believes he has a rationale explanation for how the Pentagon has handled this.
In order to make time for that preparation for tomorrow, he dispatched his deputy Paul Wolfowitz to give a speech that Rumsfeld was originally scheduled to give himself in Philadelphia. Wolfowitz again denounced the actions of the soldiers in those photographs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The actions of the soldiers in those photos are totally unacceptable. They betrayed their comrades who serve honorably every day and they have damaged the cause for which brave men and women are fighting and dying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: As for what Rumsfeld will say tomorrow, according to sources, he's going to go back to that timeline to try to show that the Pentagon did take quick action when this abuse was reported up through the chain of command.
He's also going to review some of the legal constraints he's under because this was a criminal investigation. For instance, offering perhaps the explanation that he didn't see the photos and couldn't really see them because they were part of evidence of a criminal trial.
And he's also going to explain why he couldn't release some of the reports that were classified to Congress as quickly as Congress wanted.
The big question is will he apologize? He may be asked for an apology. He has not yet given one. And he might also be asked to apologize to Congress for not keeping them better informed -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie, you say he didn't see the photos, but did he know about these pictures?
MCINTYRE: Oh, absolutely. The report to him from the very initial thing -- initial stages referred to the fact that there were these photographs, that they were graphic and also they were described, basically, the contents of them were described. He just didn't physically see them. In fact, the Pentagon insists they weren't physically here at the Pentagon.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Thanks, Jamie, very much. In Iraq U.S. forces have now made a dramatic move into the Iraqi city of Najaf while engaging in fierce fighting in the area. The U.S. base in Najaf came under intense mortar fire only within the past 90 minutes.
CNN's Jane Arraf is in Najaf. She's joining us now on the phone. Jane, tell us what's happening.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, there's a bit of a lull now. But as you mentioned there has been intense mortar fire and what sounded like Rocket-Propelled Grenades as well.
And for the first time, the U.S. military here at this base was firing mortars back. Now they have been acting with incredible caution given that they are in a city that is home to some of the holiest shrines, the Shi'a Muslims around the world.
But the attacks tonight on this Army base in Najaf follow U.S. forces taking control of the governor's building. This is after the coalition, the civilian coalition and the Iraqi Governing Council announced they'd nominated a new governor. They are bringing back an Iraqi who has left Iraq in 1991 for the United States to be a new governor of Najaf.
U.S. forces here took control of the governor's building to allow him to come back and engaged in fighting in other parts of the city, although well away from the holy sites. They say they killed more than 50 insurgents and they have been expecting response. This apparently is part of that response -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jane, please be careful over there. CNN's Jane Arraf. She's reporting exclusively from the middle of this battle in Najaf.
Where will the investigation into the prison abuse scandal lead? Should Secretary Rumsfeld take the blame? Should he resign? Joining us now, the Democratic senator from Florida, Bob Graham, former chairman of the Intelligence Committee. Senator Graham, thanks very much for joining us.
SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D), FLORIDA: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Several of your colleagues, Democrats suggesting it's time for Rumsfeld to go. What do you say?
GRAHAM: I think it is. We've had a man who has been in this position for approximately three and a half years, who has refused to participate in the reform of the Intelligence Committee, who took us to war on information that was gathered by his own in-house intelligence agency and was proven to be false.
He didn't prepare adequately for the war, including no plan for occupation and an inadequate number of troops on the ground to secure American forces and achieve our objective.
BLITZER: If Rumsfeld should go, though, because of those reasons leading up to the war and since the war, what about others in the administration like the CIA director, George Tenet?
GRAHAM: Well, this president has been very reluctant to hold anybody accountable. It's been two and a half years since 9/11, not one person has been sanctioned for what is probably the greatest intelligence failure in the history of the United States.
It's been now more than a year since we went to war in Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist. Not one person has been held accountable there at all.
I believe that the ultimate accountability is going to be on November the 2nd when the American people decide whether George W. Bush should be removed.
BLITZER: In the past have you called on George Tenet to resign?
GRAHAM: Yes, I believe that George Tenet as the leader of the intelligence community has the same responsibilities, the captain of the ship and we certainly hit the rocks on September 11.
BLITZER: So you're not saying that Rumsfeld should resign specifically because of the photos, the prisoner abuse scandal, but you see a whole list of issues including the way he's handled this issue, is that what you're saying?
GRAHAM: The way he's handled this issue is typical of the way other issues have been handled. He blunders into the situation. It is hard to believe that the kind of prisoner treatment that we are now seeing, not just the one instance last Wednesday, but a series of instances could have happened without the leadership of the Department of Defense being aware of it and if it did happen without them being aware of it, that in itself is ground for their removal.
BLITZER: What do you say to those -- Republicans mostly, but others as well that are saying, you know what, the United States is in a war right now. Troops are engaged in a war in Afghanistan there's. A war on terrorism. Democrats are seeking to create some political opportunities for their candidate and are using this to exploit this current environment.
GRAHAM: Well, this has not been a unique situation. In the civil war, President Lincoln went along with General McClellan for a couple of years and then finally decided hey was not the man to win the war and he appointed Ulysses S. Grant as our commander-in-chief and the war was won. It is not a sign of weakness to recognize that the person that you've got in charge is over their head and is incapable of accomplishing the objective and get somebody who can successfully carry this war to victory.
BLITZER: The president expressed the support for Donald Rumsfeld today as you probably know by now. Some of your Democratic colleagues are going further than you. Charlie Rangel, for example, the Democratic congressman from New York City says if Rumsfeld does not resign and the president doesn't fire him he should be impeached.
GRAHAM: It would be unusual to impeach someone who holds an appointive office. Impeachment is a process that generally is used in a position such as president or a judicial office that serves a lifetime term. I believe that the chances of this House of Representatives under the leadership of Tom Delay, impeaching the president or any of his appointees is close to nil.
BLITZER: Let's talk about the substance of the issue right now. These photos, the president did move closer toward apologizing today. Said he told King Abdullah of Jordan he's sorry. What does the United States need to do right now to correct this situation, but the broader situation in Iraq?
GRAHAM: One, we need to show the genuineness of our contrition and I believe that the holding to account those who had ultimate responsibility for this horrendous set of activities is a good place to start.
BLITZER: And meaning Donald Rumsfeld.
GRAHAM: Yes.
BLITZER: What about any of his other aides, Wolfowitz, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), any of the others at the Department of Defense, the civilian leadership?
GRAHAM: I think it should start at the head and then see how far down the chain of command, but it's not going to be satisfactory just to court-martial a few enlisted men and women and say that's the end of it.
BLITZER: Are you confident this was an isolated incident at Abu Ghraib or it's more systematic and widespread.
GRAHAM: I'm afraid it will be found to be more systematic. It's hard to believe that you would have incidents as horrific as we've seen in this one prison without there being part of a culture of permisiveness or even a culture of encouragement of this kind of treatment in order to achieve certain goals such as getting more information.
BLITZER: Senator Graham, thanks for joining us.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
BLITZER: Coming up later this hour, I'll speak with the current chairman of the Senate intelligence committee Republican Pat Roberts of Kansas and please join us tomorrow. Tomorrow morning I'll be anchoring our special coverage of the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's testimony on Capitol Hill. CNN's coverage will begin 11:30 a.m. Eastern, 8:30 a.m. on the West Coast.
To our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on this very important story. Our web question of the day is this, should the White House continue to support Defense Secretary Rumsfeld? You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Najaf isn't the only city in Iraq that's seen a breakout in violence. It's also been another bloody day in the Iraqi capital where a car bomb exploded in the city. We'll get an update from Baghdad.
Plus, hunting down insurgents in Karbala. New dramatic pictures from an exchange between U.S. troops and Sadr's militia. Also ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm calling upon all of the Islamic organizations to free him. He is a Muslim. His mom is Muslim. He's got three little kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A family's plea in Colorado after seeing new tape of a family member apparently being held hostage in Iraq. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There's been heavy fighting on several fronts in Iraq as coalition forces assert themselves against the militia of the radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr. Among them Karbala where Polish and American soldiers have launched Operation Search and Cordon. Polish military officials say the goal is to disarm and eliminate Sadr's militia known as the Mehdi army.
As we reported, there's also been heavy fighting between coalition forces and insurgence in Najaf as well. It's been a very bloody 24 hours in the Iraqi capital of Baghdad where at least 19 people have died in violence that included a suicide car bombing. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A suicide car bomb shook Baghdad at 7:30 a.m. this morning at a U.S.-manned checkpoint outside the so- called Green Zone, that's where the U.S.-led coalition provisional authority is headquartered. Seven people were killed in the blast including five Iraqi civilians, one U.S. soldier, and the suicide bomber himself.
The bomb went off right next to a line of Iraqi workers who were waiting to get to their jobs inside the Green Zone. In addition to that, 25 people were wounded including three Iraqi policemen and two U.S. soldiers.
According to coalition officials the bomb contained artillery rounds which threw fragments or shrapnel all over the area where the bomb went off. According to the same coalition officials, this blast bears all of the hallmarks of Abu Masab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian national they believe has been behind a series of car bombs in Iraq. They also believe he has ties with Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network. A claim of responsibility for the bombing has been posted on an Internet Web site by a shadowy group that claims Zarqawi as its Amir (ph), or leader.
This was the first car bomb to go off in Baghdad since March 17 when a blast killed seven people in a Baghdad hotel. I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN reporting from Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The Iraqi prison scandal isn't going away any time soon. As we told you, the president today addressed the growing criticism of his Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, but what's going on behind the scenes? And what impact does is the situation in Iraq having on the president's approval ratings? We have new poll numbers. Those are coming up. Plus this...
Multiple major wildfires burning in southern California. The latest from the fire lines. We'll go there next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Our senior White House correspondent John King is joining us now with more on our top story. The Iraq prison scandal calls on the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign.
John, we heard the president express his support for Donald Rumsfeld, stay in the cabinet today, but behind the scenes, how confident are White House officials over this whole situation right now?
JOHN KING, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, they're confident that as long as he has the president's support and they say he does, Secretary Rumsfeld will stay in the cabinet. But they are equally confident, we should say, the Democrats on Capitol Hill will continue to call for Secretary Rumsfeld's head, if you will, ask the president to fire the secretary or someone else because of the prison abuse scandal.
What they are expecting here at the White House, and I should say they view this in two contexts. No. 1, what they're expecting here at the White House is a classic Rumsfeld performance. When he goes before the Congress on Friday, he can make a very good base case, once this came to the military's attention, quickly held some people accountable and is continuing to investigate to find and punish anyone else who is responsible for the abuses. So, on that front they think the secretary has a powerful case.
The bigger question, though, is how are the politics and the diplomacy of this handled and that is where the president himself made clear himself that he is not happy with Secretary Rumsfeld. He believes he was kept in the dark by the Pentagon about the key details, the classified report detailing the scope of the abuses, those graphic, dramatic pictures that anyone who looks at them would know, not only does it outline the abuses, but it would cause outrage throughout the Arab world. The president made clear today, he believes he should have been told that information. We're told he quite bluntly told the secretary that yesterday.
One interesting footnote, Wolf, we are told the secretary said he was kept in the dark about some of the details about all of this. That will be a fascinating avenue of questioning when the secretary goes before both the House and the Senate on Friday. What did he know and when did he know it.
BLITZER: The president flatly said earlier today, I should have known about the pictures and about the report. How unusual in the three and a half, almost four years of this administration is it for this White House, for the president to express irritation, if you will, with some of his aides?
KING: It is almost unprecedented, especially irritation, disdain for someone the cabinet level, someone so closely associated with this president, who is so closely defined with this president when it comes to the reaction of September 11, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. It is unprecedented for Mr. Bush to do this. And the White House said he simply feels he had no choice because the president is mad. He believes he should have known more earlier.
But Wolf, it's interesting, as they do point the finger at the Pentagon and to some degree Secretary Rumsfeld, the White House still cannot answer key questions here. They can't tell precisely when the president was first told of the abuses. They can not tell, beyond asking -- they say he asked to be kept informed whether he specifically raised concerns or specifically requested any actions, they say here at the White House they keep going back to try to find those answers. They say they can't find them.
BLITZER: All right. John King at the White House. John, thanks very much.
Amid all of this there are new poll numbers coming out today, suggesting that events in Iraq are beginning to have a serious impact, potentially on the U.S. presidential campaign.
Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider is joining us now, looking at these new numbers. A Gallup poll, released today, likely voter's choice for president. We'll put up no the screen: John Kerry, 47 percent, Bush, 47 percent, Ralph Nader, 3 percent. What do you make of these numbers?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, two weeks ago, Wolf, President Bush was 6 points ahead of John Kerry. Now the race is tied. So Kerry seems to be gaining some traction here. Democrats look and say, say tied, he ought to be doing better. He ought to be surging, given all of President Bush's problems in Iraq, the 9/11 commission, gasoline prices, but you can also say John Kerry is still not very well known and he's running against the popular wartime president so tied isn't too bad.
BLITZER: And there's the potential for Ralph Nader to emerge as sort of the anti-war candidate taking votes away from John Kerry.
SCHNEIDER: That's right. If anti-war sentiment rises, then really, there's only one candidate who is strongly anti-war, it's not John Kerry, it's Ralph Nader.
BLITZER: Take a look at this job approval rating for the president when it comes to the situation in Iraq. Only 42 of the American public, according to this Gallup poll, approve of the way he's handling Iraq, 55 percent disapprove. What a difference a year makes.
SCHNEIDER: Even a couple of years makes, because that's a drop of 6 points on the ratings in Iraq just in the last two weeks. His ratings on Iraq are at an all-time low, his ratings on the economy, even though there were signs were picking up, those are at an all-time low. His ratings on handling the war on terrorism, which is his strong suit, they are lower than they've ever been.
The president is in trouble. The election is almost certainly going to be a referendum on President Bush, but to complete the sale, Democrats have to make the case that Kerry is an acceptable alternative.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider with the latest numbers and analysis. Thank you very much.
He's become the focus of criticism since the Iraqi prisoner abuse story became public. Tomorrow, Donald Rumsfeld will be front and center on Capitol Hill. Up next, more of our preview of what to expect.
Also ahead: held hostage, another American is captured by Iraqi fighters. Hear his family's urgent plea for his return.
And later, honoring the fallen: when public sorrow is silence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Calls for the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld's, resignation and now a call for his impeachment. New heated reaction from Capitol Hill. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts, he'll join me live. That's coming up.
First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
Cooler weather is helping firefighters in Southern California this afternoon as they battle three blazes; 26,000 acres have been burned. More than a dozen homes have been destroyed.
A Florida judge ruled today that a law written to keep a brain- damaged woman alive is both unconstitutional and an invasion of privacy; 40-year-old Terry Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state for 14 years. Her husband says she should be allowed to die. Her parents say no. After years of court battles, her husband finally has prevailed. Then the Florida legislature has now passed legislation giving Governor Jeb Bush the right to intervene. Today's ruling declared that that law is invalid. The governor's office, though, is appealing.
The United Nations will be spending millions to upgrade security at its headquarters building in New York City. It will put in a new fence, surveillance systems and heavy posts meant to stop potential car bombers. The work will cost $21 million.
Ambassador John Negroponte has been overwhelmingly approved by the U.S. Senate to be the next ambassador to Iraq. Negroponte is a longtime U.S. diplomat whose last posting was as the American ambassador to the United Nations. In the 1980s, Negroponte was the U.S. ambassador to Honduras.
Tough sessions are expected when the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld takes the hot seat on Capitol Hill tomorrow. Today, there was more anger and indignation over the prisoner abuse scandal.
Our congressional correspondent Joe Johns is joining us now live from Capitol Hill where the reaction has been intense -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, a handful of congressional Democrats, not everybody, but a handful are already calling for Rumsfeld's resignation, which is putting some Republicans in the position of having to defend Rumsfeld without even hearing what he has to say.
As you know, that testimony is scheduled for tomorrow morning before the Senate Armed Services Committee. Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona took to the floor today indicating the views of some of his colleagues that the attacks on Rumsfeld may sniff of election-year politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: Would we have the right to call for somebody's resignation before we've even heard on what they have to say, or been briefed on what they did? Is that an American way to go about doing things or is it perhaps an expression of partisanship? I suggest that, to the extent it might be the latter, people should hold their fire and just wait until the facts come in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Now, the substance, in fact, of Rumsfeld's defense has begun on Capitol Hill. Today Rumsfeld met at the Pentagon with four Republican senators who questioned him about the Iraq abuse scandal. Among those senators who talked with him was Senator John Cornyn of Texas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: One, that he knows that he's got to hit head on and that's why he's going to have his public testimony tomorrow, but I was reassured that the Department of Defense and the secretary had acted appropriately in light of these initial allegations back in January leading up to the criminal charges on March the 20th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Again, that testimony scheduled tomorrow morning before the Senate Armed Services Committee. He is expected to be accompanied by a number of other officials from the Department of Defense -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Joe Johns on Capitol Hill.
The Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal could implicate U.S. personnel far beyond the Defense Department. There are now investigations under way into the deaths of at least two prisoners that may have involved CIA employees or civilian contractors working for the U.S. intelligence agency.
Our national security correspondent David Ensor is looking into this part of this ever-expanding story -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you say, these photographs have put a klieg light on to the whole subject of prisoners and the treatment of them.
There's an Iraqi prisoner who died in November while being interrogated by a CIA officer and a contract translator who arrived at Abu Ghraib Prison with broken ribs and breathing difficulties according to my sources after being arrested by Navy SEALs. Now, that contradicts what Pentagon officials have been quoted by saying yesterday, that the man had been delivered to the prison in good health.
In another case, an independent contractor for the CIA who was interrogating a prisoner in Afghanistan when the man died could face assault charges, according to knowledgeable sources. One source even says the case is being looked into as a possible murder case.
Most independent contractors who would do something like this, conduct interrogations for the CIA, are former employees of the agency. But officials would not say whether this individual is a former employee. Now, these two case are being looked into by the CIA's inspector general, who testified yesterday along, with the director of central intelligence, George Tenet, behind closed doors for the House Intelligence Committee.
Committee staff are saying that there's also a third case, but sources say they do not believe that there's any wrongdoing by anyone from the CIA in that particular case. It's sort of ruled out.
BLITZER: All right, David Ensor picking up that complicated part of this story, David, thanks very much.
After a dramatic escape this week by an American civilian contractor, namely Thomas Hamill, another U.S. citizen is now taken hostage by Iraqi insurgents. This time, the American is a native of Baghdad. We'll have details, plus this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MULHOLLAND, "JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY": They talk a lot about the honor of the military, but then when there's real sacrifices and real dead people, real dead soldiers, there's no recognition of that. And that seems -- it seems hypocritical.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Hidden grief. Does America's policy of honoring the fallen mask the realities of war? The British think so. We'll get to that.
First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Israeli forces along the Lebanese border opened fire on suspected Hezbollah guerrillas. Military officials say Hezbollah was trying to attack an Israeli post.
Death sentences. A Libyan court has sentenced five Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor to face a firing squad. They were accused of deliberately infecting more than 400 children with the AIDS virus as part of a medical experiment. Human rights groups say Libya fabricated the charges to cover up unsafe practices in Libyan hospitals and clinics.
New era. Georgia's central government vows to reassert its authority over the Adzharia region along the Black Sea. The region's embattled separatist leader resigned today and fled to Moscow.
Vietnam milestone. Ceremonies in Vietnam are marking the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Dien Bien Phu. The French defeat in that battle ended French colonial rule over Indochina and set the stage for U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Another American has been taken hostage in Iraq and another family has been seized with fear and uncertainty. This time, there's a twist.
CNN's Brian Todd reports, the victim was born in Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABAN ELIAS, IRAQI HOSTAGE: My name is Aban Elias of Denver, Colorado. BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We've seen it increasingly in recent weeks, Americans and others held hostage in Iraq. But this victim is different. He's Iraqi by birth. Relatives say Aban Elias has lived in the U.S. for the last two decades, but returned to Iraq to help with reconstruction.
ELIAS: I'm a civil engineer working here in Baghdad. We have (UNINTELLIGIBLE) plans and we are working with the Pentagon.
TODD: The Arab TV network Al-Arabiya said it received a video of Elias from a group calling itself the Islamic Anger Brigade. And Elias himself is Muslim. His family in Denver appealed to the Muslim community for help.
KAZWAN ELIAS, BROTHER OF ABAN: I'm calling upon all the Islamic organizations who can free him. He's a Muslim. He's -- his mom's Muslim. He's got three little kids. One younger kid is 1 year old, his youngest, and then he's got a 4-year-old and a 6-year-old. And they're waiting.
TODD: Elias' mother sobbed during a news conference. The family says she had recently been with her son in Iraq and that all of them are shocked and devastated.
K. ELIAS: His wife is crying. His mom is crying. This is just insane -- insane to just have him captured like this. I don't know what kind of relation he's got with anything.
TODD: Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we're just getting this word in. Osama bin Laden has apparently released a statement saying he's offering a reward in gold to anyone who kills the chief U.S. administrator in Iraq, Ambassador Paul Bremer, and the two top U.S. military commanders on the scene. A statement released by Osama bin Laden suggests that there's a transcript of an audio recording that was released on two Web sites known for militant Islamic messages, warning that the al Qaeda leadership would like to see Ambassador Bremer and two top U.S. military commanders in Iraq killed. Whoever does that will receive gold.
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts is joining us now live. He's also a member of the Armed Services Committee.
I know you may not be aware of this late-breaking development, Senator Roberts, but then again, maybe you have been briefed on this. Have you?
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: Well, we knew that there would always be a danger of something like that happening from al Qaeda. We expected it from Abu al-Zarqawi, who has been the mastermind at least behind the violence in Iraq and around Baghdad and Fallujah and other areas.
I was not aware of the bin Laden tape until you mentioned it, but I'm not surprised.
BLITZER: Is this a threat, though, based on what you know -- and you're chairman of the Intelligence Committee -- that the American government should take seriously?
ROBERTS: I'm sorry. You cut off, Wolf.
BLITZER: Is this a threat that American officials should take seriously?
ROBERTS: Oh, I think they should take every threat very seriously. We are doing in regards to possible attacks prior to the election. We take every threat very seriously. Yes, I do.
BLITZER: Let's move on to talk about Donald Rumsfeld's testimony tomorrow before the Armed Services committee. You'll be there. You're a key member.
Is it just military personnel now that are being investigated? As chairman of the Intelligence Committee, is this expanding into members of the Intelligence Committee and civilian contractors who may be employed, for example, by the CIA?
ROBERTS: Well, that's the allegation, of course, that we read in the press. We had a hearing yesterday before the Intelligence Committee. We were assured at that particular time that no intelligence official was directly involved in giving people advice, orders or direction to conduct the kind of conduct that has sickened everybody. I don't think that's the case. I'd be a little bit stunned by that.
In the intelligence community, everybody that works in terms of interrogation of prisoners, which is exceedingly important for our force protection -- you just described another bomb that went off in Iraq -- they know the difference, Wolf. They know the criteria. So I'm going to be a little stunned if that's the case, but we're keeping the door open until this investigation runs its full course.
BLITZER: Abu Ghraib Prison, as you well know, Senator, Abu Ghraib prison was notorious under Saddam Hussein as a place where torture was commonplace. A lot of people simply disappeared in there. Prisoners were brutally, brutally tortured. Whose idea it was to establish the coalition, the U.S. military prison at that notorious location?
ROBERTS: I think it was a space problem, a space challenge, that there were some units there. Basically, there are about 4,800, I guess, detainees.
Interestingly enough, we're going to release about 26 percent. I have suggested that one of the things we could do from a significant standpoint of really proving that that era is over as a symbol simply raze the building. You've got a street that runs right between it. It is not secure.
As I say, we're going to release one out of four of the detainees. So it's been my suggestion to show the rest of the Middle East and the world what went -- what went wrong with Saddam and also what went wrong in terms of the United States that we ought raze the building.
BLITZER: The other day, Tuesday, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld told reporters over at the Pentagon he hadn't even read completely the whole report that was completed in January or February, the so-called Taguba report, on what happened at the Abu Ghraib Prison. He said he only read a summary of what happened. What does that say to you?
ROBERTS: Well, basically, it says to me that the Uniform Code of Military Justice was working in reference to the five pending investigations, the six criminal charges that have been made and the seven people that have been relieved of duty. And as that works up to the command, it eventually works up to the secretary of defense.
I think what happened here, however is, obviously, you have the pictures. And that -- that has been absolutely deplorable and has really blown this issue up. It's just a terrible international incident, where the president has apologized. We're upset on the Intelligence Committee. We're upset on the Armed Services Committee that we were not informed. And so it's a matter of information getting to the right people so they can make the right decisions.
BLITZER: I'm going to put up on the screen, Senator Roberts, the new cover of the next issue of "The Economist" magazine, a sober magazine. You're familiar with the magazine. It has got a picture, one of those awful pictures from the prison, with a simple headline, "Resign, Rumsfeld."
Should he resign?
ROBERTS: I think that's premature. I think you and I both know it's an even-numbered year. I think everybody has concerns. I have questions.
We need to let the secretary address those questions tomorrow as he goes through the routine, as I say, Code of Military Justice and what we do with people who are breaking the law. But this incident is not routine. It's an international incident that has forced the president basically to apologize, as well as Dr. Rice. But I do not think that asking Don Rumsfeld to resign in the middle of transformation and in the middle of the war -- stop and think what message that sends to our troops and what message that sends to the terrorist.
I know what message it sends in regards to the campaign.
BLITZER: Senator Roberts, as usual, thanks very much for joining us.
ROBERTS: OK. Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: A different approach in honoring the war dead, British troops making their final journey home with no media coverage restrictions. We'll take a look at how their traditions diver from U.S. policy.
That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In this country, the Pentagon usually doesn't allow pictures of coffins for American troops who have died in Iraq. It says it's the policy of the U.S. government to protect families' privacy. But across the Atlantic, there's a very different attitude about honoring fallen service members.
Here's CNN's senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is how the British honor their war dead. At the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, the exact moment of the armistice in 1918 ending the great war, even 84 years later, the dead are not forgotten. Led by the queen, all Britain's war dead are honored with dignity and beauty.
When the British war dead come home from Iraq now, they are not hidden. Grieving is public. Important dignitaries and families gather for the return of those killed. TV cameras are kept at a discrete distance, but the reality of war is not denied. To many British, it seems bizarre that the Pentagon, citing concern for family privacy, does not allow pictures of its honored dead returning.
GEOFFREY WHEATCROFT, JOURNALIST: To an Englishmen, it is very strange indeed because we have in fact this long tradition of honoring the dead and of treating war with great solemnity and making almost a cult out of the fallen.
RODGERS: Last October, the royal family, the prime minister and families of fallen soldiers all came together at St. Paul's Cathedral to honor Britain's Iraq war dead. To the British, the fact President George W. Bush has yet to attend the funeral of a single American soldier killed in Iraq seems more than strange.
WHEATCROFT: It would seem from this perspective that the statement he's trying to make is that he would wish away the fact that any Americans have been killed there, which, of course, he can't do.
RODGERS: Under Bush administration restrictions for covering the return of the American war dead, pictures like these broadcast by Britain's ITN could not be gathered in the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On that flight, five Royal Marines, the first, 34-year-old Major Jason Ward from Plymouth. Next came his colleague, Captain Philip Guy from North Yorkshire.
RODGERS: Those who carefully track this war here are appalled.
MULHOLLAND: In the U.K., there's an effort to honor those who have died. In the U.S., under this administration, it seems there's a real effort to hide the cost of the war both in terms of the number of lives lost and in terms of money.
RODGERS (on camera): As they did in the great war, the British and the Americans marched off together again, this time in Iraq. But for those who paid the ultimate price, they come home in a very different manner.
Walter Rodgers, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we'll have the results of our "Web Question of the Day" when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of the Day." Remember, we've been asking you this question: Should the White House continue to support Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld? Look at this: 44 percent of you say yes; 56 percent of you say no. As always, we remind you, this is not a scientific poll.
A reminder, we're here weekdays, 5:00 p.m. Eastern.
This note, tomorrow, 11:30 a.m. Eastern, we'll have special coverage of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's testimony on Capitol Hill, 11:30 a.m. Eastern.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 6, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): New images of abuse. They're adding fuel to the fire and the heat's on Donald Rumsfeld.
SEN. TOM HARKIN (D), IOWA: It's because of Secretary Rumsfeld's actions, his statements and his policies over the last couple of years directly, I believe, led to these kinds of activities.
BLITZER: Should Rumsfeld resign?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's an important part of my cabinet and he'll stay in my cabinet.
BLITZER: I'll speak with Senate Intelligence Chairman Pat Roberts and his predecessor, Senator Bob Graham.
Battleground. A suicide strike in Baghdad as U.S. troops storm Shi'ite strong holds. We're on the scene.
A new hostage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a Muslim. His mom is Muslim. He's got three little kids.
BLITZER: The final journey. While the Pentagon keeps U.S. war dead out of sight, Britain brings home its fallen with full ceremony.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Thursday, May 6, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: He's now the lightning rod for outrage over the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. And some Democrats in Congress are now calling for his head. Donald Rumsfeld was out of sight today preparing for crucial testimony tomorrow morning before a Senate committee. But President Bush came to the defense of his defense secretary even as new images of abuse surfaced.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): With Jordan's King Abdullah at his side in the White House Rose Garden, President Bush took a step closer to formally apologizing to the Iraqi people.
BUSH: I told him I was sorry for the humiliation suffered by the Iraqi prisoners. And the humiliation suffered by their families.
BLITZER: Although he said he was sick to his stomach by the pictures, he rejected growing demands for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign.
BUSH: Secretary Rumsfeld is a really good secretary of defense. Secretary Rumsfeld has served our nation well. Secretary Rumsfeld has been the secretary during two wars. And he is an important part of my cabinet and he'll stay in my cabinet.
BLITZER: Still, the president confirmed his irritation that he had learned about the allegations only after they were reported in the news media.
BUSH: I should have known about the pictures and the report.
BLITZER: The president spoke on a day that "The Washington Post" published four more pictures showing Iraqi detainees being mistreated at the Abu Ghraib Prison, including this shot of a female M.P. holding a leash to a naked man's neck lying on the prison floor.
The political fallout is clearly escalating amid angry recriminations. Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry lashed out at the president and his advisers.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As president I will not be the last to know what is going on in my command.
BLITZER: On Capitol Hill, Democrats were lining up, calling for Rumsfeld to leave office.
HARKIN: For the benefit of the United States, for our country, I believe Mr. Rumsfeld has to resign.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: Mr. Rumsfeld has been engaged in a cover-up from the start on this issue and continues to be so.
REP. CHARLES RANGEL, (D), NEW YORK: If the president doesn't fire the secretary, if he doesn't resign, I think it's the responsibility of this Congress to file articles of impeachment and force him to leave office.
BLITZER: But Republican leaders reject that, accusing Democrats of playing politics in this election year.
REP. TOM DELAY (D-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: They want to win the White House more than they want to win the war. And our enemies know it.
I'm not questioning their patriotism. Don't let them play that little game again. I'm questioning their judgment and their fitness to lead.
(END VIDEOTAPE) BLITZER: Donald Rumsfeld always seems to maintain an air of confidence but can he keep his cool when he comes in for a grilling tomorrow morning on Capitol Hill? Let's go live to our Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre. Jamie, what's the sense over there?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Aides to Rumsfeld describe him as upbeat and anxious to tell his side of the story. According to some of the senators who had breakfast with him this morning, he believes he has a rationale explanation for how the Pentagon has handled this.
In order to make time for that preparation for tomorrow, he dispatched his deputy Paul Wolfowitz to give a speech that Rumsfeld was originally scheduled to give himself in Philadelphia. Wolfowitz again denounced the actions of the soldiers in those photographs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL WOLFOWITZ, DEPUTY SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: The actions of the soldiers in those photos are totally unacceptable. They betrayed their comrades who serve honorably every day and they have damaged the cause for which brave men and women are fighting and dying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: As for what Rumsfeld will say tomorrow, according to sources, he's going to go back to that timeline to try to show that the Pentagon did take quick action when this abuse was reported up through the chain of command.
He's also going to review some of the legal constraints he's under because this was a criminal investigation. For instance, offering perhaps the explanation that he didn't see the photos and couldn't really see them because they were part of evidence of a criminal trial.
And he's also going to explain why he couldn't release some of the reports that were classified to Congress as quickly as Congress wanted.
The big question is will he apologize? He may be asked for an apology. He has not yet given one. And he might also be asked to apologize to Congress for not keeping them better informed -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Jamie, you say he didn't see the photos, but did he know about these pictures?
MCINTYRE: Oh, absolutely. The report to him from the very initial thing -- initial stages referred to the fact that there were these photographs, that they were graphic and also they were described, basically, the contents of them were described. He just didn't physically see them. In fact, the Pentagon insists they weren't physically here at the Pentagon.
BLITZER: Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Thanks, Jamie, very much. In Iraq U.S. forces have now made a dramatic move into the Iraqi city of Najaf while engaging in fierce fighting in the area. The U.S. base in Najaf came under intense mortar fire only within the past 90 minutes.
CNN's Jane Arraf is in Najaf. She's joining us now on the phone. Jane, tell us what's happening.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, there's a bit of a lull now. But as you mentioned there has been intense mortar fire and what sounded like Rocket-Propelled Grenades as well.
And for the first time, the U.S. military here at this base was firing mortars back. Now they have been acting with incredible caution given that they are in a city that is home to some of the holiest shrines, the Shi'a Muslims around the world.
But the attacks tonight on this Army base in Najaf follow U.S. forces taking control of the governor's building. This is after the coalition, the civilian coalition and the Iraqi Governing Council announced they'd nominated a new governor. They are bringing back an Iraqi who has left Iraq in 1991 for the United States to be a new governor of Najaf.
U.S. forces here took control of the governor's building to allow him to come back and engaged in fighting in other parts of the city, although well away from the holy sites. They say they killed more than 50 insurgents and they have been expecting response. This apparently is part of that response -- Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Jane, please be careful over there. CNN's Jane Arraf. She's reporting exclusively from the middle of this battle in Najaf.
Where will the investigation into the prison abuse scandal lead? Should Secretary Rumsfeld take the blame? Should he resign? Joining us now, the Democratic senator from Florida, Bob Graham, former chairman of the Intelligence Committee. Senator Graham, thanks very much for joining us.
SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D), FLORIDA: Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: Several of your colleagues, Democrats suggesting it's time for Rumsfeld to go. What do you say?
GRAHAM: I think it is. We've had a man who has been in this position for approximately three and a half years, who has refused to participate in the reform of the Intelligence Committee, who took us to war on information that was gathered by his own in-house intelligence agency and was proven to be false.
He didn't prepare adequately for the war, including no plan for occupation and an inadequate number of troops on the ground to secure American forces and achieve our objective.
BLITZER: If Rumsfeld should go, though, because of those reasons leading up to the war and since the war, what about others in the administration like the CIA director, George Tenet?
GRAHAM: Well, this president has been very reluctant to hold anybody accountable. It's been two and a half years since 9/11, not one person has been sanctioned for what is probably the greatest intelligence failure in the history of the United States.
It's been now more than a year since we went to war in Iraq to find weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist. Not one person has been held accountable there at all.
I believe that the ultimate accountability is going to be on November the 2nd when the American people decide whether George W. Bush should be removed.
BLITZER: In the past have you called on George Tenet to resign?
GRAHAM: Yes, I believe that George Tenet as the leader of the intelligence community has the same responsibilities, the captain of the ship and we certainly hit the rocks on September 11.
BLITZER: So you're not saying that Rumsfeld should resign specifically because of the photos, the prisoner abuse scandal, but you see a whole list of issues including the way he's handled this issue, is that what you're saying?
GRAHAM: The way he's handled this issue is typical of the way other issues have been handled. He blunders into the situation. It is hard to believe that the kind of prisoner treatment that we are now seeing, not just the one instance last Wednesday, but a series of instances could have happened without the leadership of the Department of Defense being aware of it and if it did happen without them being aware of it, that in itself is ground for their removal.
BLITZER: What do you say to those -- Republicans mostly, but others as well that are saying, you know what, the United States is in a war right now. Troops are engaged in a war in Afghanistan there's. A war on terrorism. Democrats are seeking to create some political opportunities for their candidate and are using this to exploit this current environment.
GRAHAM: Well, this has not been a unique situation. In the civil war, President Lincoln went along with General McClellan for a couple of years and then finally decided hey was not the man to win the war and he appointed Ulysses S. Grant as our commander-in-chief and the war was won. It is not a sign of weakness to recognize that the person that you've got in charge is over their head and is incapable of accomplishing the objective and get somebody who can successfully carry this war to victory.
BLITZER: The president expressed the support for Donald Rumsfeld today as you probably know by now. Some of your Democratic colleagues are going further than you. Charlie Rangel, for example, the Democratic congressman from New York City says if Rumsfeld does not resign and the president doesn't fire him he should be impeached.
GRAHAM: It would be unusual to impeach someone who holds an appointive office. Impeachment is a process that generally is used in a position such as president or a judicial office that serves a lifetime term. I believe that the chances of this House of Representatives under the leadership of Tom Delay, impeaching the president or any of his appointees is close to nil.
BLITZER: Let's talk about the substance of the issue right now. These photos, the president did move closer toward apologizing today. Said he told King Abdullah of Jordan he's sorry. What does the United States need to do right now to correct this situation, but the broader situation in Iraq?
GRAHAM: One, we need to show the genuineness of our contrition and I believe that the holding to account those who had ultimate responsibility for this horrendous set of activities is a good place to start.
BLITZER: And meaning Donald Rumsfeld.
GRAHAM: Yes.
BLITZER: What about any of his other aides, Wolfowitz, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), any of the others at the Department of Defense, the civilian leadership?
GRAHAM: I think it should start at the head and then see how far down the chain of command, but it's not going to be satisfactory just to court-martial a few enlisted men and women and say that's the end of it.
BLITZER: Are you confident this was an isolated incident at Abu Ghraib or it's more systematic and widespread.
GRAHAM: I'm afraid it will be found to be more systematic. It's hard to believe that you would have incidents as horrific as we've seen in this one prison without there being part of a culture of permisiveness or even a culture of encouragement of this kind of treatment in order to achieve certain goals such as getting more information.
BLITZER: Senator Graham, thanks for joining us.
GRAHAM: Thank you.
BLITZER: Coming up later this hour, I'll speak with the current chairman of the Senate intelligence committee Republican Pat Roberts of Kansas and please join us tomorrow. Tomorrow morning I'll be anchoring our special coverage of the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's testimony on Capitol Hill. CNN's coverage will begin 11:30 a.m. Eastern, 8:30 a.m. on the West Coast.
To our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on this very important story. Our web question of the day is this, should the White House continue to support Defense Secretary Rumsfeld? You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results later in this broadcast. Najaf isn't the only city in Iraq that's seen a breakout in violence. It's also been another bloody day in the Iraqi capital where a car bomb exploded in the city. We'll get an update from Baghdad.
Plus, hunting down insurgents in Karbala. New dramatic pictures from an exchange between U.S. troops and Sadr's militia. Also ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm calling upon all of the Islamic organizations to free him. He is a Muslim. His mom is Muslim. He's got three little kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: A family's plea in Colorado after seeing new tape of a family member apparently being held hostage in Iraq. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There's been heavy fighting on several fronts in Iraq as coalition forces assert themselves against the militia of the radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr. Among them Karbala where Polish and American soldiers have launched Operation Search and Cordon. Polish military officials say the goal is to disarm and eliminate Sadr's militia known as the Mehdi army.
As we reported, there's also been heavy fighting between coalition forces and insurgence in Najaf as well. It's been a very bloody 24 hours in the Iraqi capital of Baghdad where at least 19 people have died in violence that included a suicide car bombing. CNN's Ben Wedeman is in Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A suicide car bomb shook Baghdad at 7:30 a.m. this morning at a U.S.-manned checkpoint outside the so- called Green Zone, that's where the U.S.-led coalition provisional authority is headquartered. Seven people were killed in the blast including five Iraqi civilians, one U.S. soldier, and the suicide bomber himself.
The bomb went off right next to a line of Iraqi workers who were waiting to get to their jobs inside the Green Zone. In addition to that, 25 people were wounded including three Iraqi policemen and two U.S. soldiers.
According to coalition officials the bomb contained artillery rounds which threw fragments or shrapnel all over the area where the bomb went off. According to the same coalition officials, this blast bears all of the hallmarks of Abu Masab al-Zarqawi, the Jordanian national they believe has been behind a series of car bombs in Iraq. They also believe he has ties with Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network. A claim of responsibility for the bombing has been posted on an Internet Web site by a shadowy group that claims Zarqawi as its Amir (ph), or leader.
This was the first car bomb to go off in Baghdad since March 17 when a blast killed seven people in a Baghdad hotel. I'm Ben Wedeman, CNN reporting from Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: The Iraqi prison scandal isn't going away any time soon. As we told you, the president today addressed the growing criticism of his Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, but what's going on behind the scenes? And what impact does is the situation in Iraq having on the president's approval ratings? We have new poll numbers. Those are coming up. Plus this...
Multiple major wildfires burning in southern California. The latest from the fire lines. We'll go there next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Our senior White House correspondent John King is joining us now with more on our top story. The Iraq prison scandal calls on the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to resign.
John, we heard the president express his support for Donald Rumsfeld, stay in the cabinet today, but behind the scenes, how confident are White House officials over this whole situation right now?
JOHN KING, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, they're confident that as long as he has the president's support and they say he does, Secretary Rumsfeld will stay in the cabinet. But they are equally confident, we should say, the Democrats on Capitol Hill will continue to call for Secretary Rumsfeld's head, if you will, ask the president to fire the secretary or someone else because of the prison abuse scandal.
What they are expecting here at the White House, and I should say they view this in two contexts. No. 1, what they're expecting here at the White House is a classic Rumsfeld performance. When he goes before the Congress on Friday, he can make a very good base case, once this came to the military's attention, quickly held some people accountable and is continuing to investigate to find and punish anyone else who is responsible for the abuses. So, on that front they think the secretary has a powerful case.
The bigger question, though, is how are the politics and the diplomacy of this handled and that is where the president himself made clear himself that he is not happy with Secretary Rumsfeld. He believes he was kept in the dark by the Pentagon about the key details, the classified report detailing the scope of the abuses, those graphic, dramatic pictures that anyone who looks at them would know, not only does it outline the abuses, but it would cause outrage throughout the Arab world. The president made clear today, he believes he should have been told that information. We're told he quite bluntly told the secretary that yesterday.
One interesting footnote, Wolf, we are told the secretary said he was kept in the dark about some of the details about all of this. That will be a fascinating avenue of questioning when the secretary goes before both the House and the Senate on Friday. What did he know and when did he know it.
BLITZER: The president flatly said earlier today, I should have known about the pictures and about the report. How unusual in the three and a half, almost four years of this administration is it for this White House, for the president to express irritation, if you will, with some of his aides?
KING: It is almost unprecedented, especially irritation, disdain for someone the cabinet level, someone so closely associated with this president, who is so closely defined with this president when it comes to the reaction of September 11, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. It is unprecedented for Mr. Bush to do this. And the White House said he simply feels he had no choice because the president is mad. He believes he should have known more earlier.
But Wolf, it's interesting, as they do point the finger at the Pentagon and to some degree Secretary Rumsfeld, the White House still cannot answer key questions here. They can't tell precisely when the president was first told of the abuses. They can not tell, beyond asking -- they say he asked to be kept informed whether he specifically raised concerns or specifically requested any actions, they say here at the White House they keep going back to try to find those answers. They say they can't find them.
BLITZER: All right. John King at the White House. John, thanks very much.
Amid all of this there are new poll numbers coming out today, suggesting that events in Iraq are beginning to have a serious impact, potentially on the U.S. presidential campaign.
Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider is joining us now, looking at these new numbers. A Gallup poll, released today, likely voter's choice for president. We'll put up no the screen: John Kerry, 47 percent, Bush, 47 percent, Ralph Nader, 3 percent. What do you make of these numbers?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, two weeks ago, Wolf, President Bush was 6 points ahead of John Kerry. Now the race is tied. So Kerry seems to be gaining some traction here. Democrats look and say, say tied, he ought to be doing better. He ought to be surging, given all of President Bush's problems in Iraq, the 9/11 commission, gasoline prices, but you can also say John Kerry is still not very well known and he's running against the popular wartime president so tied isn't too bad.
BLITZER: And there's the potential for Ralph Nader to emerge as sort of the anti-war candidate taking votes away from John Kerry.
SCHNEIDER: That's right. If anti-war sentiment rises, then really, there's only one candidate who is strongly anti-war, it's not John Kerry, it's Ralph Nader.
BLITZER: Take a look at this job approval rating for the president when it comes to the situation in Iraq. Only 42 of the American public, according to this Gallup poll, approve of the way he's handling Iraq, 55 percent disapprove. What a difference a year makes.
SCHNEIDER: Even a couple of years makes, because that's a drop of 6 points on the ratings in Iraq just in the last two weeks. His ratings on Iraq are at an all-time low, his ratings on the economy, even though there were signs were picking up, those are at an all-time low. His ratings on handling the war on terrorism, which is his strong suit, they are lower than they've ever been.
The president is in trouble. The election is almost certainly going to be a referendum on President Bush, but to complete the sale, Democrats have to make the case that Kerry is an acceptable alternative.
BLITZER: Bill Schneider with the latest numbers and analysis. Thank you very much.
He's become the focus of criticism since the Iraqi prisoner abuse story became public. Tomorrow, Donald Rumsfeld will be front and center on Capitol Hill. Up next, more of our preview of what to expect.
Also ahead: held hostage, another American is captured by Iraqi fighters. Hear his family's urgent plea for his return.
And later, honoring the fallen: when public sorrow is silence.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
Calls for the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld's, resignation and now a call for his impeachment. New heated reaction from Capitol Hill. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts, he'll join me live. That's coming up.
First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
Cooler weather is helping firefighters in Southern California this afternoon as they battle three blazes; 26,000 acres have been burned. More than a dozen homes have been destroyed.
A Florida judge ruled today that a law written to keep a brain- damaged woman alive is both unconstitutional and an invasion of privacy; 40-year-old Terry Schiavo has been in a persistent vegetative state for 14 years. Her husband says she should be allowed to die. Her parents say no. After years of court battles, her husband finally has prevailed. Then the Florida legislature has now passed legislation giving Governor Jeb Bush the right to intervene. Today's ruling declared that that law is invalid. The governor's office, though, is appealing.
The United Nations will be spending millions to upgrade security at its headquarters building in New York City. It will put in a new fence, surveillance systems and heavy posts meant to stop potential car bombers. The work will cost $21 million.
Ambassador John Negroponte has been overwhelmingly approved by the U.S. Senate to be the next ambassador to Iraq. Negroponte is a longtime U.S. diplomat whose last posting was as the American ambassador to the United Nations. In the 1980s, Negroponte was the U.S. ambassador to Honduras.
Tough sessions are expected when the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld takes the hot seat on Capitol Hill tomorrow. Today, there was more anger and indignation over the prisoner abuse scandal.
Our congressional correspondent Joe Johns is joining us now live from Capitol Hill where the reaction has been intense -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, a handful of congressional Democrats, not everybody, but a handful are already calling for Rumsfeld's resignation, which is putting some Republicans in the position of having to defend Rumsfeld without even hearing what he has to say.
As you know, that testimony is scheduled for tomorrow morning before the Senate Armed Services Committee. Senator Jon Kyl of Arizona took to the floor today indicating the views of some of his colleagues that the attacks on Rumsfeld may sniff of election-year politics.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: Would we have the right to call for somebody's resignation before we've even heard on what they have to say, or been briefed on what they did? Is that an American way to go about doing things or is it perhaps an expression of partisanship? I suggest that, to the extent it might be the latter, people should hold their fire and just wait until the facts come in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Now, the substance, in fact, of Rumsfeld's defense has begun on Capitol Hill. Today Rumsfeld met at the Pentagon with four Republican senators who questioned him about the Iraq abuse scandal. Among those senators who talked with him was Senator John Cornyn of Texas.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: One, that he knows that he's got to hit head on and that's why he's going to have his public testimony tomorrow, but I was reassured that the Department of Defense and the secretary had acted appropriately in light of these initial allegations back in January leading up to the criminal charges on March the 20th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHNS: Again, that testimony scheduled tomorrow morning before the Senate Armed Services Committee. He is expected to be accompanied by a number of other officials from the Department of Defense -- Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Joe Johns on Capitol Hill.
The Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal could implicate U.S. personnel far beyond the Defense Department. There are now investigations under way into the deaths of at least two prisoners that may have involved CIA employees or civilian contractors working for the U.S. intelligence agency.
Our national security correspondent David Ensor is looking into this part of this ever-expanding story -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you say, these photographs have put a klieg light on to the whole subject of prisoners and the treatment of them.
There's an Iraqi prisoner who died in November while being interrogated by a CIA officer and a contract translator who arrived at Abu Ghraib Prison with broken ribs and breathing difficulties according to my sources after being arrested by Navy SEALs. Now, that contradicts what Pentagon officials have been quoted by saying yesterday, that the man had been delivered to the prison in good health.
In another case, an independent contractor for the CIA who was interrogating a prisoner in Afghanistan when the man died could face assault charges, according to knowledgeable sources. One source even says the case is being looked into as a possible murder case.
Most independent contractors who would do something like this, conduct interrogations for the CIA, are former employees of the agency. But officials would not say whether this individual is a former employee. Now, these two case are being looked into by the CIA's inspector general, who testified yesterday along, with the director of central intelligence, George Tenet, behind closed doors for the House Intelligence Committee.
Committee staff are saying that there's also a third case, but sources say they do not believe that there's any wrongdoing by anyone from the CIA in that particular case. It's sort of ruled out.
BLITZER: All right, David Ensor picking up that complicated part of this story, David, thanks very much.
After a dramatic escape this week by an American civilian contractor, namely Thomas Hamill, another U.S. citizen is now taken hostage by Iraqi insurgents. This time, the American is a native of Baghdad. We'll have details, plus this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MULHOLLAND, "JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY": They talk a lot about the honor of the military, but then when there's real sacrifices and real dead people, real dead soldiers, there's no recognition of that. And that seems -- it seems hypocritical.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Hidden grief. Does America's policy of honoring the fallen mask the realities of war? The British think so. We'll get to that.
First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Israeli forces along the Lebanese border opened fire on suspected Hezbollah guerrillas. Military officials say Hezbollah was trying to attack an Israeli post.
Death sentences. A Libyan court has sentenced five Bulgarian nurses and a Palestinian doctor to face a firing squad. They were accused of deliberately infecting more than 400 children with the AIDS virus as part of a medical experiment. Human rights groups say Libya fabricated the charges to cover up unsafe practices in Libyan hospitals and clinics.
New era. Georgia's central government vows to reassert its authority over the Adzharia region along the Black Sea. The region's embattled separatist leader resigned today and fled to Moscow.
Vietnam milestone. Ceremonies in Vietnam are marking the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Dien Bien Phu. The French defeat in that battle ended French colonial rule over Indochina and set the stage for U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Another American has been taken hostage in Iraq and another family has been seized with fear and uncertainty. This time, there's a twist.
CNN's Brian Todd reports, the victim was born in Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ABAN ELIAS, IRAQI HOSTAGE: My name is Aban Elias of Denver, Colorado. BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We've seen it increasingly in recent weeks, Americans and others held hostage in Iraq. But this victim is different. He's Iraqi by birth. Relatives say Aban Elias has lived in the U.S. for the last two decades, but returned to Iraq to help with reconstruction.
ELIAS: I'm a civil engineer working here in Baghdad. We have (UNINTELLIGIBLE) plans and we are working with the Pentagon.
TODD: The Arab TV network Al-Arabiya said it received a video of Elias from a group calling itself the Islamic Anger Brigade. And Elias himself is Muslim. His family in Denver appealed to the Muslim community for help.
KAZWAN ELIAS, BROTHER OF ABAN: I'm calling upon all the Islamic organizations who can free him. He's a Muslim. He's -- his mom's Muslim. He's got three little kids. One younger kid is 1 year old, his youngest, and then he's got a 4-year-old and a 6-year-old. And they're waiting.
TODD: Elias' mother sobbed during a news conference. The family says she had recently been with her son in Iraq and that all of them are shocked and devastated.
K. ELIAS: His wife is crying. His mom is crying. This is just insane -- insane to just have him captured like this. I don't know what kind of relation he's got with anything.
TODD: Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we're just getting this word in. Osama bin Laden has apparently released a statement saying he's offering a reward in gold to anyone who kills the chief U.S. administrator in Iraq, Ambassador Paul Bremer, and the two top U.S. military commanders on the scene. A statement released by Osama bin Laden suggests that there's a transcript of an audio recording that was released on two Web sites known for militant Islamic messages, warning that the al Qaeda leadership would like to see Ambassador Bremer and two top U.S. military commanders in Iraq killed. Whoever does that will receive gold.
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts is joining us now live. He's also a member of the Armed Services Committee.
I know you may not be aware of this late-breaking development, Senator Roberts, but then again, maybe you have been briefed on this. Have you?
SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: Well, we knew that there would always be a danger of something like that happening from al Qaeda. We expected it from Abu al-Zarqawi, who has been the mastermind at least behind the violence in Iraq and around Baghdad and Fallujah and other areas.
I was not aware of the bin Laden tape until you mentioned it, but I'm not surprised.
BLITZER: Is this a threat, though, based on what you know -- and you're chairman of the Intelligence Committee -- that the American government should take seriously?
ROBERTS: I'm sorry. You cut off, Wolf.
BLITZER: Is this a threat that American officials should take seriously?
ROBERTS: Oh, I think they should take every threat very seriously. We are doing in regards to possible attacks prior to the election. We take every threat very seriously. Yes, I do.
BLITZER: Let's move on to talk about Donald Rumsfeld's testimony tomorrow before the Armed Services committee. You'll be there. You're a key member.
Is it just military personnel now that are being investigated? As chairman of the Intelligence Committee, is this expanding into members of the Intelligence Committee and civilian contractors who may be employed, for example, by the CIA?
ROBERTS: Well, that's the allegation, of course, that we read in the press. We had a hearing yesterday before the Intelligence Committee. We were assured at that particular time that no intelligence official was directly involved in giving people advice, orders or direction to conduct the kind of conduct that has sickened everybody. I don't think that's the case. I'd be a little bit stunned by that.
In the intelligence community, everybody that works in terms of interrogation of prisoners, which is exceedingly important for our force protection -- you just described another bomb that went off in Iraq -- they know the difference, Wolf. They know the criteria. So I'm going to be a little stunned if that's the case, but we're keeping the door open until this investigation runs its full course.
BLITZER: Abu Ghraib Prison, as you well know, Senator, Abu Ghraib prison was notorious under Saddam Hussein as a place where torture was commonplace. A lot of people simply disappeared in there. Prisoners were brutally, brutally tortured. Whose idea it was to establish the coalition, the U.S. military prison at that notorious location?
ROBERTS: I think it was a space problem, a space challenge, that there were some units there. Basically, there are about 4,800, I guess, detainees.
Interestingly enough, we're going to release about 26 percent. I have suggested that one of the things we could do from a significant standpoint of really proving that that era is over as a symbol simply raze the building. You've got a street that runs right between it. It is not secure.
As I say, we're going to release one out of four of the detainees. So it's been my suggestion to show the rest of the Middle East and the world what went -- what went wrong with Saddam and also what went wrong in terms of the United States that we ought raze the building.
BLITZER: The other day, Tuesday, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld told reporters over at the Pentagon he hadn't even read completely the whole report that was completed in January or February, the so-called Taguba report, on what happened at the Abu Ghraib Prison. He said he only read a summary of what happened. What does that say to you?
ROBERTS: Well, basically, it says to me that the Uniform Code of Military Justice was working in reference to the five pending investigations, the six criminal charges that have been made and the seven people that have been relieved of duty. And as that works up to the command, it eventually works up to the secretary of defense.
I think what happened here, however is, obviously, you have the pictures. And that -- that has been absolutely deplorable and has really blown this issue up. It's just a terrible international incident, where the president has apologized. We're upset on the Intelligence Committee. We're upset on the Armed Services Committee that we were not informed. And so it's a matter of information getting to the right people so they can make the right decisions.
BLITZER: I'm going to put up on the screen, Senator Roberts, the new cover of the next issue of "The Economist" magazine, a sober magazine. You're familiar with the magazine. It has got a picture, one of those awful pictures from the prison, with a simple headline, "Resign, Rumsfeld."
Should he resign?
ROBERTS: I think that's premature. I think you and I both know it's an even-numbered year. I think everybody has concerns. I have questions.
We need to let the secretary address those questions tomorrow as he goes through the routine, as I say, Code of Military Justice and what we do with people who are breaking the law. But this incident is not routine. It's an international incident that has forced the president basically to apologize, as well as Dr. Rice. But I do not think that asking Don Rumsfeld to resign in the middle of transformation and in the middle of the war -- stop and think what message that sends to our troops and what message that sends to the terrorist.
I know what message it sends in regards to the campaign.
BLITZER: Senator Roberts, as usual, thanks very much for joining us.
ROBERTS: OK. Thank you, Wolf.
BLITZER: A different approach in honoring the war dead, British troops making their final journey home with no media coverage restrictions. We'll take a look at how their traditions diver from U.S. policy.
That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: In this country, the Pentagon usually doesn't allow pictures of coffins for American troops who have died in Iraq. It says it's the policy of the U.S. government to protect families' privacy. But across the Atlantic, there's a very different attitude about honoring fallen service members.
Here's CNN's senior international correspondent Walter Rodgers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is how the British honor their war dead. At the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, the exact moment of the armistice in 1918 ending the great war, even 84 years later, the dead are not forgotten. Led by the queen, all Britain's war dead are honored with dignity and beauty.
When the British war dead come home from Iraq now, they are not hidden. Grieving is public. Important dignitaries and families gather for the return of those killed. TV cameras are kept at a discrete distance, but the reality of war is not denied. To many British, it seems bizarre that the Pentagon, citing concern for family privacy, does not allow pictures of its honored dead returning.
GEOFFREY WHEATCROFT, JOURNALIST: To an Englishmen, it is very strange indeed because we have in fact this long tradition of honoring the dead and of treating war with great solemnity and making almost a cult out of the fallen.
RODGERS: Last October, the royal family, the prime minister and families of fallen soldiers all came together at St. Paul's Cathedral to honor Britain's Iraq war dead. To the British, the fact President George W. Bush has yet to attend the funeral of a single American soldier killed in Iraq seems more than strange.
WHEATCROFT: It would seem from this perspective that the statement he's trying to make is that he would wish away the fact that any Americans have been killed there, which, of course, he can't do.
RODGERS: Under Bush administration restrictions for covering the return of the American war dead, pictures like these broadcast by Britain's ITN could not be gathered in the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On that flight, five Royal Marines, the first, 34-year-old Major Jason Ward from Plymouth. Next came his colleague, Captain Philip Guy from North Yorkshire.
RODGERS: Those who carefully track this war here are appalled.
MULHOLLAND: In the U.K., there's an effort to honor those who have died. In the U.S., under this administration, it seems there's a real effort to hide the cost of the war both in terms of the number of lives lost and in terms of money.
RODGERS (on camera): As they did in the great war, the British and the Americans marched off together again, this time in Iraq. But for those who paid the ultimate price, they come home in a very different manner.
Walter Rodgers, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And we'll have the results of our "Web Question of the Day" when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Here's how you're weighing in on our "Web Question of the Day." Remember, we've been asking you this question: Should the White House continue to support Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld? Look at this: 44 percent of you say yes; 56 percent of you say no. As always, we remind you, this is not a scientific poll.
A reminder, we're here weekdays, 5:00 p.m. Eastern.
This note, tomorrow, 11:30 a.m. Eastern, we'll have special coverage of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's testimony on Capitol Hill, 11:30 a.m. Eastern.
"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" starts right now.
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