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CNN Live At Daybreak
Calls on Capitol Hill for Resignation of Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld; Fighting in Shiite Holy City of Karbala
Aired May 07, 2004 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Defending the defense secretary as others call for his resignation.
This is DAYBREAK for May 7.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Let me bring you up to date now.
Tough questions ahead. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld testifies today before congressional committees looking into the Iraqi prison abuse scandal.
A bomb explodes at a packed mosque in the Pakistani city of Karachi. You are looking at pictures just into us this morning. At least five worshippers are dead, dozens more wounded.
Anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr left his stronghold in Najaf today to lead prayers in nearby Kufa. That while his militia exchanged gunfire with U.S. troops in Karbala, as seen in these new pictures just into CNN.
In Vietnam, they're celebrating the 50th anniversary of the defeat of the French at Dien Bien Phu. That battle ended French colonial rule over Vietnam and paved the way for U.S. intervention.
And overnight in Paris, a simulated bomb attack on the city's underground transportation system. It is the latest test of the city's emergency response to a terrorist attack.
Now to the forecast center and Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld faces back to back congressional hearings on the Iraqi prisoner abuse allegations. He's scheduled to appear before the Senate Armed Services Committee at 11:45 Eastern this morning. And then, right after that, he will be grilled by the House Armed Services Committee. That will happen at 3:00 Eastern this afternoon.
Senior administration officials tell CNN Rumsfeld does plan to announce the creation of an independent panel to look into how the Pentagon handled the Iraqi prisoner abuse investigation.
Also on Capitol Hill, some Democrats say the scandal involving the abuse of Iraqi prisoners should cost Rumsfeld his job.
CNN's Joe Johns has more on that for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The day before Rumsfeld's public testimony on Capitol Hill, And a few Democrats were already calling for his head.
SEN. TOM HARKIN (D), IOWA: For the benefit of the United States, for our country, I believe Mr. Rumsfeld has to resign.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: I am calling for Mr. Rumsfeld's resignation.
JOHNS: One Democrat said Congress should make him step down, if necessary.
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: If the president doesn't fire the secretary, if he doesn't resign, I think it's the responsibility of this Congress to file articles of impeachment and force him to leave office.
JOHNS: The chorus put some Republicans in the position of defending Rumsfeld before he had even spoken.
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: Would we have the right to call for somebody's resignation before we've even heard on what they have to say, or been briefed on what they did? Is that an American way to go about doing things or is it perhaps an expression of partisanship? I suggest that, to the extent it might be the latter, people should hold their fire and just wait until the facts come in.
JOHNS: But the substance of Rumsfeld's defense had already begun. Four Republican senators met with at the Pentagon today, among them, Senator John Cornyn of Texas.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: One, that he knows that he's got to hit head on and that's why he's going to have his public testimony tomorrow, but I was reassured that the Department of Defense and the secretary had acted appropriately in light of these initial allegations back in January leading up to the criminal charges on March the 20th.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: And Democrats on Capitol Hill may want Rumsfeld's head, but President Bush is standing by Donald Rumsfeld.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Secretary Rumsfeld is a really good secretary of defense. Secretary Rumsfeld has served our nation well. Secretary Rumsfeld has been the secretary during two wars and he is -- he's an important part of my cabinet and he'll stay in my cabinet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: As you might expect, John Kerry is critical of the way President Bush is handling this scandal. During a campaign stop in California, he said if he were president he would, and I'm quoting here, "not be the last to k." He also wants Rumsfeld out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The entire, you know, way in which they rushed the nation to war on these assumptions that he was making, which were incorrect, is a huge historic miscalculation. And I thought he should resign then, period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Kerry said last September Rumsfeld should resign for underestimating the demands of the war in Iraq.
Britain is also dealing with allegations of British soldiers beating Iraqi prisoners in Basra. Remember those pictures that surfaced in Britain? Well, this morning there's supposedly an eyewitness.
For more details, let's head live to London and Diana Muriel -- Diana, tell us about this.
DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, another day, another set of headlines to do with Iraqi soldiers -- Iraqi prisoners, rather, being abused. This is the "Daily Mirror" headline this morning "I Saw POW Beatings." This is from a soldier who is unnamed, but described as Soldier C, who says that he saw four instances of abuse, of attacks on Iraqi prisoners.
Now, he's from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment and it was two soldiers from that regiment who came to the "Mirror" six days ago with photographs which they say show the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by British soldiers in Basra.
The photographs were pretty shocking. They showed prisoners who had been hooded and who had been handcuffed. One man was being kicked in the throat. Another man looked as if he was being urinated on by a British soldier.
Now, Soldier C, talking in the newspaper this morning, says that he can't corroborate those photographs, but he says that he does have details about four specific incidents of abuse where soldiers were attacking these prisoners. They were kicking them. They were beating them, that they have sandbags put over their heads, he said, that they were being punched in the neck, that they were being put in stress positions, forced to kneel with their hands raised in front of them and if they dropped their hands then they were kicked repeatedly. And this abuse, he said, could go on for many, many hours. Now, he has said that he is willing to disclose the names and ranks of the soldiers involved, and, indeed, the ministry of defense has confirmed to CNN this morning that he has, indeed, been interviewed by the Royal Military Police special investigations branch, which is conducting an investigation into these alleged abuses. He was interviewed on Wednesday. He may be interviewed again. He was described as being cooperative.
But the ministry of defense said that they have not been able to interview the two soldiers who produced the photographs, Soldiers A and B. And the indication there that they would like to.
So these allegations of abuse continue here in Britain -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Diana Muriel reporting live from London.
As we've been telling you all morning long, there is new fighting in Iraq this morning, specifically in Karbala.
Let's head live to Baghdad and Ben Wedeman to find out more.
New pictures to show us, too, Ben, right? BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's correct. These pictures just coming in from Karbala, the other Shiite holy city in Iraq. There it's been reported that there's been heavy fighting between U.S. forces and members of the so-called Mahdi Army, the militia loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Now, we're hearing that some of the fighting is near the center of the city, centered around a mosque called Mohiam Mosque (ph), which is quite near to some of the holy shrines in Karbala. No word at this point about casualties. We've been in touch with the hospital, but they're trying to get more firm or certain information.
Now, in addition to the fighting in Karbala, there's news that two journalists, one polish, one Algerian, have been killed in what's being described as a drive by shooting in a town known as Latifiya, which is about 40 kilometers south of Baghdad. In that incident, another polish journalist was wounded, as well. Now, this is the same area where two of our CNN colleagues were killed in an attack earlier this year. This brings to around 25 the number of journalists killed in Iraq since the U.S. launched its invasion of Iraq in March, 2003, making this country the most dangerous place for journalists to work in the world.
Now, as far as reaction to President Bush's apology yesterday, it's mixed. We heard from one religious leader saying that he appreciates the apology, that he'll take it at face value. But he will wait to see whether the United States is going to carry out its promises and pledges to change and improve conditions at Abu Ghraib Prison, where the abuse took place, and to punish those who were involved in this incident -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Ben Wedeman live in Baghdad this morning.
In stories across America this Friday, a 37-year-old Portland, Oregon lawyer, Brandon Mayfield -- you see him here -- he's in custody this morning. The FBI calls him a material witness in connection with the March train bombings in Madrid, Spain that killed 190 people.
A tape recording related to the two planes that crashed into the World Trade Center has been destroyed without anyone listening to it. An investigator says the tape contained the recollections of New York air traffic controllers who dealt with the planes. But the controllers also made a written report.
In Oklahoma, defense attorneys for Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols shifted the focus at his murder trial to John Doe Number Two. Attorneys want to prove Timothy McVeigh got a lot of help in planning the Oklahoma City bombing and then set up Nichols to take the blame.
Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld in the hot seat this morning. We will take a closer look at what he might expect as he heads to Capitol Hill.
Also, charges of mistreatment of Afghan prisoners. We'll check in with Nic Robertson, who is embedded with the Marines in central Afghanistan.
And later, carbs -- are they a runner's friend, even if they are a dieter's foe? We'll take a look at the best way to fuel up before you hit the street.
This is DAYBREAK for Friday, May 7.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports.
It is 6:12 Eastern time.
Here's what's all new this morning.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld goes before Congress today to testify on the Iraq prisoner abuse scandal. Rumsfeld is expected to announce plans to form an independent panel to look into the Pentagon's handling of the investigation.
These pictures just in this morning from Iraq. U.S. troops clashing with gunmen near the holy shrines in the city of Karbala. Explosions heard near the office of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al- Sadr. No word on casualties yet.
In money news, April's unemployment report is due out in just about two hours, and already there is encouraging news. The number of people filing for unemployment benefits dropped last week to their lowest level in more than three years.
In sports, "Spiderman" ads on bases did not fly with baseball fans. So a day after announcing the "Spiderman 2" promotion deal, major league baseball changed its mind and will keep "Spiderman" off the bases. In culture, TV's most popular comedy, "Friends," ended its 10 year run with an emotional finale. The show ended where it began, with Ross and Rachel united as a couple -- Chad.
MYERS: Oh, I taped it. I didn't want you to tell me. I'm just kidding.
COSTELLO: Oh, stop it.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines.
Time for a little business buzz right now.
It pays to shop around when you're buying video games.
Carrie Lee has more advice for you.
She's live at the NASDAQ market site this morning -- good morning, Carrie.
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Well, interesting, because Wal-Mart always prides itself on having low prices. But in a new Piper-Jaffrey survey of seven key game retailers, Wal-Mart's prices were actually the highest; in fact, coming in nine percent higher than Amazon.com and six percent more than Best Buy.
Now, Piper-Jaffrey priced 30 software titles, mixing recent and older games from all platforms, with the exception of the PC. Amazon actually reported the lowest prices and Wal-Mart's price was the highest. Specialty retailers Game Stop and Electronics Boutique fell in the mid range of the spectrum. But also both sell used games, which cost 12 to 13 percent less than prices on new games. And, in fact, Carol, there is quite a market for used games. So interesting to note here, Wal-Mart not always the lowest price when it comes to video games.
COSTELLO: Thanks for the advice.
Carrie Lee live from the NASDAQ market site this morning.
In a New York minute, they've gone from the Olsen twins to Mary Kate and Ashley. We'll have a preview of their first grown up movie and the rest of the weekend's new releases a bit later this morning.
And our DAYBREAK Photo of the Day -- what is it? We'll have the answer after a break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: You know, it's interesting, the "New York Times" is calling for Donald Rumsfeld's resignation. But in the "Wall Street Journal," its editorial says that Donald Rumsfeld is being used as sort of a scapegoat for President Bush.
MYERS: Sure.
COSTELLO: President Bush put the heat on Donald Rumsfeld to take the heat off Bush. The "Wall Street Journal" saying that Bush's political advisers came up with that strategy and it's not quite working out how they thought it would.
MYERS: Interesting.
COSTELLO: In fact, let me read the last line for you.
MYERS: OK.
COSTELLO: According to the "Wall Street Journal," "The only exit strategy is to finish the job and win. Put another way, if Mr. Bush fires Mr. Rumsfeld, the voters may well conclude it is time to fire him."
So we'll see what happens.
We've been soliciting your e-mails on the subject this morning and we've gotten a lot of them and we do appreciate it. Very insightful viewers this morning.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: Let me read this one from Plant City, Florida, from Laura. She says: "Aren't we all tired of Rumsfeld's smug, arrogance as he defends sending our young people to die for what turns out to be no reason at all?"
And this one from Tony from Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania. He says: "I don't think Donald Rumsfeld should resign. Does a coach get fired when one of his players uses drugs? Does a president get fired when some citizens won't listen?"
MYERS: That seems to be in the strain quite a bit today, too. It's like where do you draw the line? Where was the responsibility? Who said it, who gave them permission, whatever?
Here's this from Brad, Michigan: "No excuse for prisoner abuse. Absolutely not. But as far as I'm concerned, resignations should be numerous. Every person responsible for the publication of this and reporting should resign immediately to provide radical Muslims and other anti-American forces the reason to hate Americans more will certainly cost more American lives."
COSTELLO: Interesting.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: Any more?
MYERS: Well, I have a couple. Do we have some time?
COSTELLO: Yes, just one more.
MYERS: "Secretary Rumsfeld should not resign. If he resigns, so should every other member of Congress. Fire the general in charge of the prison instead." That's from Scott in Tampa.
COSTELLO: All right.
Thank you.
Keep those e-mails coming in, daybreak@cnn.com.
Of course, Rumsfeld does go before the Senate Armed Services Committee at 11:45 Eastern this morning. CNN, of course, will bring you his testimony live.
Let's get back to our Photo of the Day just to lighten the mood a bit.
MYERS: Yes, it's hard to see. I mean this looks like an old maybe crazy old tie. But not.
COSTELLO: Something out of the psychedelic '60s.
MYERS: It's actually very important. This is the 2004 design for the bandana that's going to be for the Race for the Cure events to benefit the Susan Coleman Breast Cancer Foundation. Anybody walking in or doing anything for the Race for the Cure this year will get this bandana to put on their head.
COSTELLO: That's nice.
MYERS: It is. It's great.
COSTELLO: And coming up on DAYBREAK, I will have a story for all of you wanting to run a 5K and wanting to make a good time -- what you should eat, you know, how many carbs, how much protein. I'll tell you in the next half hour of DAYBREAK.
And see? You see those muffins there? We'll tell you more about that.
Also on DAYBREAK, live to Capitol Hill, where a few hours from now, the secretary of defense will defend his leadership amidst allegations of Iraqi prison abuse.
And the other battlefield -- U.S. troops in Afghanistan are learning from that scandal in Iraq. We'll go live to Nic Robertson, who's embedded with the U.S. Marines in the former Taliban territory.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: When Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld appears before Congress later today, expect the questioning to be more than tough. Donald Rumsfeld will be grilled and no doubt some of the questions will center around a certain culture that Rumsfeld is accused of creating. Joining us live from Washington to talk about that, Anne Applebaum, who won a Pulitzer Prize for her book, "Gulag: A History," and is on the editorial staff of the "Washington Post."
Welcome, Anne.
ANNE APPLEBAUM, "WASHINGTON POST": Thank you very much for having me.
COSTELLO: The president has come out and publicly chastised Mr. Rumsfeld, but says he's an important member of his cabinet.
What do you think, if anything, should happen to Secretary Rumsfeld?
APPLEBAUM: I really do believe that for the good of the country and for the good of this country's reputation, he should resign. The culture of impunity that he created in the prison system, the decision to ignore the Geneva Conventions, the strict rules of the Geneva Conventions and the traditions of the Army and completely dismiss them in order to create a -- effectively create a lawless prison system, I think, are partly responsible for what we're seeing today.
COSTELLO: We want to share something with our viewers that appeared in the "Washington Post" in an editorial. It says: "Mr. Rumsfeld's decisions helped create a lawless regime in which prisoners in both Iraq and Afghanistan have been humiliated, beaten, tortured and murdered." And that's along the lines of what you were just saying. But that's pretty harsh.
How so?
APPLEBAUM: How -- sorry. How so have they been humiliated and tortured? I think we've seen the pictures.
COSTELLO: No, how has Donald Rumsfeld created this culture? I'd like you to go more into that, from your point of view.
APPLEBAUM: He, two years ago he, when we first began arresting prisoners in the war on terror, he dismissed the idea that these prisoners were somehow subjected to the Geneva Conventions on prisoners of war, which are traditional and which there have never been controversial international laws in this country. And he dismissed them. He said, well, these are old laws, they don't matter anymore, we don't need to have hearings to determine whether these are prisoners of war or not. And that was really the beginning of a cycle that continued in first Guantanamo Bay, then in Afghanistan and then now in Iraq.
He apparently ignored, over the last six months, a series of reports, both from the Army and from Bremer, who is the head of operations in Iraq, as well as from human rights groups and from the International Red Cross.
None of this is really news. This has been percolating around and discussed by many people over the last six months, over the last year, and there has been no action taken until now, basically until it's in the media.
COSTELLO: But doesn't...
APPLEBAUM: And that speaks very ill of the Pentagon.
COSTELLO: But didn't the culture after 9/11 change? Didn't what Donald Rumsfeld had to say about many things, didn't that appeal to the country at that particular emotional time?
APPLEBAUM: I think, yes, I think much of what Donald Rumsfeld said was, in some, at some moments, appropriate. I think he was right about the need to reform the Army. I think the military's performance -- at least in fighting -- in Afghanistan and Iraq has been superb. But he appears to have been completely unprepared for what occupation was going to mean. It's one thing to redesign an army and use private contractors and make it more efficient when you're fighting. It's another thing to use private contractors in actual military interrogations.
This means that in Iraq, as in Afghanistan, private citizens, who are not subject to the military chain of command, were actually in charge of interrogating prisoners. If they break the rules, if they kill somebody, what law are they subjected to? Are they subjected to American law? That's not clear. They can't be court-martialed.
He created the situation that allowed this to happen.
COSTELLO: And, of course, a lot of that is in the court system now.
Anne Applebaum from the "Washington Post" joining DAYBREAK this morning.
We thank you.
We're going to take a short break.
We'll be back with more after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: The secretary, the abuse photos, the ultimate responsibility -- will Donald Rumsfeld take the fall?
This is DAYBREAK for May 7.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Let me bring you up to date.
It may be from the frying pan into the fire today for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. He faces grilling from two congressional committees over the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. Some Democratic law makers have called for Rumsfeld's resignation. The latest pictures from Karachi, Pakistan, where a powerful bomb rips through a mosque during midday prayers this morning. At least five people are dead, 35 wounded.
And cross border fighting in the Middle East -- Hezbollah militia and Israeli forces exchanged fire early today. Hezbollah shelled outposts in northern Israel and Israeli Air Force and artillery returned fire into Lebanon.
The FBI has now detained a Portland, Oregon attorney who Spanish officials say may have been involved in the Madrid train bombings. Sources say Brandon Mayfield's fingerprints were found on a bag with bomb related material.
Former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling has a hearing today to determine if he violated terms of his bail. Skilling was picked up by New York police last month after a night of drinking and strange behavior -- now to Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 7, 2004 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Defending the defense secretary as others call for his resignation.
This is DAYBREAK for May 7.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Let me bring you up to date now.
Tough questions ahead. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld testifies today before congressional committees looking into the Iraqi prison abuse scandal.
A bomb explodes at a packed mosque in the Pakistani city of Karachi. You are looking at pictures just into us this morning. At least five worshippers are dead, dozens more wounded.
Anti-American cleric Muqtada al-Sadr left his stronghold in Najaf today to lead prayers in nearby Kufa. That while his militia exchanged gunfire with U.S. troops in Karbala, as seen in these new pictures just into CNN.
In Vietnam, they're celebrating the 50th anniversary of the defeat of the French at Dien Bien Phu. That battle ended French colonial rule over Vietnam and paved the way for U.S. intervention.
And overnight in Paris, a simulated bomb attack on the city's underground transportation system. It is the latest test of the city's emergency response to a terrorist attack.
Now to the forecast center and Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld faces back to back congressional hearings on the Iraqi prisoner abuse allegations. He's scheduled to appear before the Senate Armed Services Committee at 11:45 Eastern this morning. And then, right after that, he will be grilled by the House Armed Services Committee. That will happen at 3:00 Eastern this afternoon.
Senior administration officials tell CNN Rumsfeld does plan to announce the creation of an independent panel to look into how the Pentagon handled the Iraqi prisoner abuse investigation.
Also on Capitol Hill, some Democrats say the scandal involving the abuse of Iraqi prisoners should cost Rumsfeld his job.
CNN's Joe Johns has more on that for you.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The day before Rumsfeld's public testimony on Capitol Hill, And a few Democrats were already calling for his head.
SEN. TOM HARKIN (D), IOWA: For the benefit of the United States, for our country, I believe Mr. Rumsfeld has to resign.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: I am calling for Mr. Rumsfeld's resignation.
JOHNS: One Democrat said Congress should make him step down, if necessary.
REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: If the president doesn't fire the secretary, if he doesn't resign, I think it's the responsibility of this Congress to file articles of impeachment and force him to leave office.
JOHNS: The chorus put some Republicans in the position of defending Rumsfeld before he had even spoken.
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: Would we have the right to call for somebody's resignation before we've even heard on what they have to say, or been briefed on what they did? Is that an American way to go about doing things or is it perhaps an expression of partisanship? I suggest that, to the extent it might be the latter, people should hold their fire and just wait until the facts come in.
JOHNS: But the substance of Rumsfeld's defense had already begun. Four Republican senators met with at the Pentagon today, among them, Senator John Cornyn of Texas.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: One, that he knows that he's got to hit head on and that's why he's going to have his public testimony tomorrow, but I was reassured that the Department of Defense and the secretary had acted appropriately in light of these initial allegations back in January leading up to the criminal charges on March the 20th.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: And Democrats on Capitol Hill may want Rumsfeld's head, but President Bush is standing by Donald Rumsfeld.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Secretary Rumsfeld is a really good secretary of defense. Secretary Rumsfeld has served our nation well. Secretary Rumsfeld has been the secretary during two wars and he is -- he's an important part of my cabinet and he'll stay in my cabinet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: As you might expect, John Kerry is critical of the way President Bush is handling this scandal. During a campaign stop in California, he said if he were president he would, and I'm quoting here, "not be the last to k." He also wants Rumsfeld out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The entire, you know, way in which they rushed the nation to war on these assumptions that he was making, which were incorrect, is a huge historic miscalculation. And I thought he should resign then, period.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Kerry said last September Rumsfeld should resign for underestimating the demands of the war in Iraq.
Britain is also dealing with allegations of British soldiers beating Iraqi prisoners in Basra. Remember those pictures that surfaced in Britain? Well, this morning there's supposedly an eyewitness.
For more details, let's head live to London and Diana Muriel -- Diana, tell us about this.
DIANA MURIEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, another day, another set of headlines to do with Iraqi soldiers -- Iraqi prisoners, rather, being abused. This is the "Daily Mirror" headline this morning "I Saw POW Beatings." This is from a soldier who is unnamed, but described as Soldier C, who says that he saw four instances of abuse, of attacks on Iraqi prisoners.
Now, he's from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment and it was two soldiers from that regiment who came to the "Mirror" six days ago with photographs which they say show the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by British soldiers in Basra.
The photographs were pretty shocking. They showed prisoners who had been hooded and who had been handcuffed. One man was being kicked in the throat. Another man looked as if he was being urinated on by a British soldier.
Now, Soldier C, talking in the newspaper this morning, says that he can't corroborate those photographs, but he says that he does have details about four specific incidents of abuse where soldiers were attacking these prisoners. They were kicking them. They were beating them, that they have sandbags put over their heads, he said, that they were being punched in the neck, that they were being put in stress positions, forced to kneel with their hands raised in front of them and if they dropped their hands then they were kicked repeatedly. And this abuse, he said, could go on for many, many hours. Now, he has said that he is willing to disclose the names and ranks of the soldiers involved, and, indeed, the ministry of defense has confirmed to CNN this morning that he has, indeed, been interviewed by the Royal Military Police special investigations branch, which is conducting an investigation into these alleged abuses. He was interviewed on Wednesday. He may be interviewed again. He was described as being cooperative.
But the ministry of defense said that they have not been able to interview the two soldiers who produced the photographs, Soldiers A and B. And the indication there that they would like to.
So these allegations of abuse continue here in Britain -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Diana Muriel reporting live from London.
As we've been telling you all morning long, there is new fighting in Iraq this morning, specifically in Karbala.
Let's head live to Baghdad and Ben Wedeman to find out more.
New pictures to show us, too, Ben, right? BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's correct. These pictures just coming in from Karbala, the other Shiite holy city in Iraq. There it's been reported that there's been heavy fighting between U.S. forces and members of the so-called Mahdi Army, the militia loyal to radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
Now, we're hearing that some of the fighting is near the center of the city, centered around a mosque called Mohiam Mosque (ph), which is quite near to some of the holy shrines in Karbala. No word at this point about casualties. We've been in touch with the hospital, but they're trying to get more firm or certain information.
Now, in addition to the fighting in Karbala, there's news that two journalists, one polish, one Algerian, have been killed in what's being described as a drive by shooting in a town known as Latifiya, which is about 40 kilometers south of Baghdad. In that incident, another polish journalist was wounded, as well. Now, this is the same area where two of our CNN colleagues were killed in an attack earlier this year. This brings to around 25 the number of journalists killed in Iraq since the U.S. launched its invasion of Iraq in March, 2003, making this country the most dangerous place for journalists to work in the world.
Now, as far as reaction to President Bush's apology yesterday, it's mixed. We heard from one religious leader saying that he appreciates the apology, that he'll take it at face value. But he will wait to see whether the United States is going to carry out its promises and pledges to change and improve conditions at Abu Ghraib Prison, where the abuse took place, and to punish those who were involved in this incident -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Ben Wedeman live in Baghdad this morning.
In stories across America this Friday, a 37-year-old Portland, Oregon lawyer, Brandon Mayfield -- you see him here -- he's in custody this morning. The FBI calls him a material witness in connection with the March train bombings in Madrid, Spain that killed 190 people.
A tape recording related to the two planes that crashed into the World Trade Center has been destroyed without anyone listening to it. An investigator says the tape contained the recollections of New York air traffic controllers who dealt with the planes. But the controllers also made a written report.
In Oklahoma, defense attorneys for Oklahoma City bombing conspirator Terry Nichols shifted the focus at his murder trial to John Doe Number Two. Attorneys want to prove Timothy McVeigh got a lot of help in planning the Oklahoma City bombing and then set up Nichols to take the blame.
Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld in the hot seat this morning. We will take a closer look at what he might expect as he heads to Capitol Hill.
Also, charges of mistreatment of Afghan prisoners. We'll check in with Nic Robertson, who is embedded with the Marines in central Afghanistan.
And later, carbs -- are they a runner's friend, even if they are a dieter's foe? We'll take a look at the best way to fuel up before you hit the street.
This is DAYBREAK for Friday, May 7.
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COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports.
It is 6:12 Eastern time.
Here's what's all new this morning.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld goes before Congress today to testify on the Iraq prisoner abuse scandal. Rumsfeld is expected to announce plans to form an independent panel to look into the Pentagon's handling of the investigation.
These pictures just in this morning from Iraq. U.S. troops clashing with gunmen near the holy shrines in the city of Karbala. Explosions heard near the office of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al- Sadr. No word on casualties yet.
In money news, April's unemployment report is due out in just about two hours, and already there is encouraging news. The number of people filing for unemployment benefits dropped last week to their lowest level in more than three years.
In sports, "Spiderman" ads on bases did not fly with baseball fans. So a day after announcing the "Spiderman 2" promotion deal, major league baseball changed its mind and will keep "Spiderman" off the bases. In culture, TV's most popular comedy, "Friends," ended its 10 year run with an emotional finale. The show ended where it began, with Ross and Rachel united as a couple -- Chad.
MYERS: Oh, I taped it. I didn't want you to tell me. I'm just kidding.
COSTELLO: Oh, stop it.
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COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines.
Time for a little business buzz right now.
It pays to shop around when you're buying video games.
Carrie Lee has more advice for you.
She's live at the NASDAQ market site this morning -- good morning, Carrie.
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Well, interesting, because Wal-Mart always prides itself on having low prices. But in a new Piper-Jaffrey survey of seven key game retailers, Wal-Mart's prices were actually the highest; in fact, coming in nine percent higher than Amazon.com and six percent more than Best Buy.
Now, Piper-Jaffrey priced 30 software titles, mixing recent and older games from all platforms, with the exception of the PC. Amazon actually reported the lowest prices and Wal-Mart's price was the highest. Specialty retailers Game Stop and Electronics Boutique fell in the mid range of the spectrum. But also both sell used games, which cost 12 to 13 percent less than prices on new games. And, in fact, Carol, there is quite a market for used games. So interesting to note here, Wal-Mart not always the lowest price when it comes to video games.
COSTELLO: Thanks for the advice.
Carrie Lee live from the NASDAQ market site this morning.
In a New York minute, they've gone from the Olsen twins to Mary Kate and Ashley. We'll have a preview of their first grown up movie and the rest of the weekend's new releases a bit later this morning.
And our DAYBREAK Photo of the Day -- what is it? We'll have the answer after a break.
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COSTELLO: You know, it's interesting, the "New York Times" is calling for Donald Rumsfeld's resignation. But in the "Wall Street Journal," its editorial says that Donald Rumsfeld is being used as sort of a scapegoat for President Bush.
MYERS: Sure.
COSTELLO: President Bush put the heat on Donald Rumsfeld to take the heat off Bush. The "Wall Street Journal" saying that Bush's political advisers came up with that strategy and it's not quite working out how they thought it would.
MYERS: Interesting.
COSTELLO: In fact, let me read the last line for you.
MYERS: OK.
COSTELLO: According to the "Wall Street Journal," "The only exit strategy is to finish the job and win. Put another way, if Mr. Bush fires Mr. Rumsfeld, the voters may well conclude it is time to fire him."
So we'll see what happens.
We've been soliciting your e-mails on the subject this morning and we've gotten a lot of them and we do appreciate it. Very insightful viewers this morning.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: Let me read this one from Plant City, Florida, from Laura. She says: "Aren't we all tired of Rumsfeld's smug, arrogance as he defends sending our young people to die for what turns out to be no reason at all?"
And this one from Tony from Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania. He says: "I don't think Donald Rumsfeld should resign. Does a coach get fired when one of his players uses drugs? Does a president get fired when some citizens won't listen?"
MYERS: That seems to be in the strain quite a bit today, too. It's like where do you draw the line? Where was the responsibility? Who said it, who gave them permission, whatever?
Here's this from Brad, Michigan: "No excuse for prisoner abuse. Absolutely not. But as far as I'm concerned, resignations should be numerous. Every person responsible for the publication of this and reporting should resign immediately to provide radical Muslims and other anti-American forces the reason to hate Americans more will certainly cost more American lives."
COSTELLO: Interesting.
MYERS: Yes.
COSTELLO: Any more?
MYERS: Well, I have a couple. Do we have some time?
COSTELLO: Yes, just one more.
MYERS: "Secretary Rumsfeld should not resign. If he resigns, so should every other member of Congress. Fire the general in charge of the prison instead." That's from Scott in Tampa.
COSTELLO: All right.
Thank you.
Keep those e-mails coming in, daybreak@cnn.com.
Of course, Rumsfeld does go before the Senate Armed Services Committee at 11:45 Eastern this morning. CNN, of course, will bring you his testimony live.
Let's get back to our Photo of the Day just to lighten the mood a bit.
MYERS: Yes, it's hard to see. I mean this looks like an old maybe crazy old tie. But not.
COSTELLO: Something out of the psychedelic '60s.
MYERS: It's actually very important. This is the 2004 design for the bandana that's going to be for the Race for the Cure events to benefit the Susan Coleman Breast Cancer Foundation. Anybody walking in or doing anything for the Race for the Cure this year will get this bandana to put on their head.
COSTELLO: That's nice.
MYERS: It is. It's great.
COSTELLO: And coming up on DAYBREAK, I will have a story for all of you wanting to run a 5K and wanting to make a good time -- what you should eat, you know, how many carbs, how much protein. I'll tell you in the next half hour of DAYBREAK.
And see? You see those muffins there? We'll tell you more about that.
Also on DAYBREAK, live to Capitol Hill, where a few hours from now, the secretary of defense will defend his leadership amidst allegations of Iraqi prison abuse.
And the other battlefield -- U.S. troops in Afghanistan are learning from that scandal in Iraq. We'll go live to Nic Robertson, who's embedded with the U.S. Marines in the former Taliban territory.
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COSTELLO: When Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld appears before Congress later today, expect the questioning to be more than tough. Donald Rumsfeld will be grilled and no doubt some of the questions will center around a certain culture that Rumsfeld is accused of creating. Joining us live from Washington to talk about that, Anne Applebaum, who won a Pulitzer Prize for her book, "Gulag: A History," and is on the editorial staff of the "Washington Post."
Welcome, Anne.
ANNE APPLEBAUM, "WASHINGTON POST": Thank you very much for having me.
COSTELLO: The president has come out and publicly chastised Mr. Rumsfeld, but says he's an important member of his cabinet.
What do you think, if anything, should happen to Secretary Rumsfeld?
APPLEBAUM: I really do believe that for the good of the country and for the good of this country's reputation, he should resign. The culture of impunity that he created in the prison system, the decision to ignore the Geneva Conventions, the strict rules of the Geneva Conventions and the traditions of the Army and completely dismiss them in order to create a -- effectively create a lawless prison system, I think, are partly responsible for what we're seeing today.
COSTELLO: We want to share something with our viewers that appeared in the "Washington Post" in an editorial. It says: "Mr. Rumsfeld's decisions helped create a lawless regime in which prisoners in both Iraq and Afghanistan have been humiliated, beaten, tortured and murdered." And that's along the lines of what you were just saying. But that's pretty harsh.
How so?
APPLEBAUM: How -- sorry. How so have they been humiliated and tortured? I think we've seen the pictures.
COSTELLO: No, how has Donald Rumsfeld created this culture? I'd like you to go more into that, from your point of view.
APPLEBAUM: He, two years ago he, when we first began arresting prisoners in the war on terror, he dismissed the idea that these prisoners were somehow subjected to the Geneva Conventions on prisoners of war, which are traditional and which there have never been controversial international laws in this country. And he dismissed them. He said, well, these are old laws, they don't matter anymore, we don't need to have hearings to determine whether these are prisoners of war or not. And that was really the beginning of a cycle that continued in first Guantanamo Bay, then in Afghanistan and then now in Iraq.
He apparently ignored, over the last six months, a series of reports, both from the Army and from Bremer, who is the head of operations in Iraq, as well as from human rights groups and from the International Red Cross.
None of this is really news. This has been percolating around and discussed by many people over the last six months, over the last year, and there has been no action taken until now, basically until it's in the media.
COSTELLO: But doesn't...
APPLEBAUM: And that speaks very ill of the Pentagon.
COSTELLO: But didn't the culture after 9/11 change? Didn't what Donald Rumsfeld had to say about many things, didn't that appeal to the country at that particular emotional time?
APPLEBAUM: I think, yes, I think much of what Donald Rumsfeld said was, in some, at some moments, appropriate. I think he was right about the need to reform the Army. I think the military's performance -- at least in fighting -- in Afghanistan and Iraq has been superb. But he appears to have been completely unprepared for what occupation was going to mean. It's one thing to redesign an army and use private contractors and make it more efficient when you're fighting. It's another thing to use private contractors in actual military interrogations.
This means that in Iraq, as in Afghanistan, private citizens, who are not subject to the military chain of command, were actually in charge of interrogating prisoners. If they break the rules, if they kill somebody, what law are they subjected to? Are they subjected to American law? That's not clear. They can't be court-martialed.
He created the situation that allowed this to happen.
COSTELLO: And, of course, a lot of that is in the court system now.
Anne Applebaum from the "Washington Post" joining DAYBREAK this morning.
We thank you.
We're going to take a short break.
We'll be back with more after this.
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COSTELLO: The secretary, the abuse photos, the ultimate responsibility -- will Donald Rumsfeld take the fall?
This is DAYBREAK for May 7.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Let me bring you up to date.
It may be from the frying pan into the fire today for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. He faces grilling from two congressional committees over the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. Some Democratic law makers have called for Rumsfeld's resignation. The latest pictures from Karachi, Pakistan, where a powerful bomb rips through a mosque during midday prayers this morning. At least five people are dead, 35 wounded.
And cross border fighting in the Middle East -- Hezbollah militia and Israeli forces exchanged fire early today. Hezbollah shelled outposts in northern Israel and Israeli Air Force and artillery returned fire into Lebanon.
The FBI has now detained a Portland, Oregon attorney who Spanish officials say may have been involved in the Madrid train bombings. Sources say Brandon Mayfield's fingerprints were found on a bag with bomb related material.
Former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling has a hearing today to determine if he violated terms of his bail. Skilling was picked up by New York police last month after a night of drinking and strange behavior -- now to Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
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