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CNN Live Sunday
Comedian Alan King Dies At 79; Interview with Edmund Ghareeb
Aired May 09, 2004 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: More bad news at your gas pump. How much higher will prices go this summer? We'll have the latest numbers and a forecast.
A bomb blast kills Chechnya's president. How were terrorists able to carry out the assassination?
Also this hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY REAGAN, FORMER FIRST LADY: Just don't see how we can turn our backs on this. There's so many diseases that can be cured, or at least helped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Nancy Reagan makes an emotional plea that runs counter to the Bush administration's policy.
Hello and welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. I'm Fredricka Whitfield at the CNN Center in Atlanta. All that and more after a look at the headlines.
We learned today that comedian Alan King has died of lung cancer. He was 76. King, whose career spanned more than 50 years, was considered the quintessential Jewish comedian. Here's a clip from his last appearance on "LARRY KING LIVE" back in October of 2002.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN KING, COMEDIAN: A Jew from Texas went to Israel to teach them how to grow turkeys. And he went to this little Jewish farmer, and he said to him, Israeli farmer, and he said to him, how big is your farm? He says, oh, he says, about two acres. He said, two acres? The Jew said, what kind of farm do you have? He says, I got a farm. He says, I get in my car at 6:00 o'clock in the morning and he says by 7:00 o'clock at night, I'm still on my farm. The little Israeli Jew said, I had a car just like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: King appeared in 29 movies and was on "The Ed Sullivan Show" 56 times, the third most of anyone.
A few thousand women are spending this Mother's Day on the National Mall, crusading for stronger gun laws. They're taking part in a so-called Million Mom March. Organizers want Congress to strengthen and renew the assault weapons ban, and pass new laws mandating background checks and waiting periods.
U.S. apparently isn't the only coalition country that had reason to believe its troops were abusing Iraqi prisoners long before the scandal broke. A spokesman for the British Prime Minister Tony Blair says British officials were asked to investigate such claims as early as February. That spokesman won't say what action has been taken since.
Some unreleased photos depicting abuse by American forces will soon be shown to members of Congress. That's according to Republican John Warner, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Some in Congress say the public should be allowed to see the pictures, as well.
We begin with an important date set in the Iraqi prison abuse scandal. The first court-martial in the case will begin in just a few days. Meanwhile, a new disturbing photo has emerged. CNN's Elaine Quijano joins us from the Pentagon with more details on that -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Fredricka. Well, as the military's investigations continue into the prisoner abuse scandal, May 19 will be the date of the very first court- martial, and it will be for Specialist Jeremy Sivits, of the 372nd Military Police Company, said to be court-martialed May 19.
Now, military spokesman in Baghdad announced that today, saying that Sivits will face a bad conduct discharge and is also facing multiple charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: The three charges against Specialist Sivits are conspiracy to maltreatment -- to maltreat subordinates and detainees, dereliction of duty for negligently failing to protect detainees from abuse, cruelty and maltreatment, and maltreatment of detainees.
The court-martial, U.S. v. Specialist Jeremy Sivits is docketed for May 19 and subject to final coordination and approval. The trials will be held at a location within this convention center here in Baghdad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now, Brigadier General Kimmitt also saying that the court-martial will be open to media coverage.
Now, at the same time, word of this court-martial date comes at a time -- at the same time that a new photograph has emerged. This one coming out in the latest edition of "The New Yorker" magazine. This part of an article by journalist Seymour Hersh, called "Chain of Command," and it shows a naked Iraqi detainee cowering as what appears to be Americans in uniform surround him with dogs at their sides. Now, Hersh says this is just one in a series of photographs like it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEYMOUR HERSH, "NEW YORKER": It's about 20 photographs. And it's from the beginning to the end, what it shows is the man -- the dogs getting closer and closer, barking at him. As I say, the whole time, at one point one of the -- one of the prison guards is smiling into the camera. It's just like sort of another day in the office. Eventually, we don't see the dogs actually bite him, but there is a series of photographs with the man on the ground with a gaping wound in his leg.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now, Seymour Hersh also says that the evidence suggests that cameras were part of the interrogation process, that threatening to show these pictures to neighbors and others was a way to get leverage.
Now, for its part, in response to word of a new picture emerging, a senior Pentagon official this weekend told me that the Pentagon was very much aware of the existence of hundreds of others photos, which this official described as part of the evidence in an ongoing investigation -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And have these photos, Elaine, inspired perhaps another look at how the detainees are being held in Guantanamo?
QUIJANO: Well, certainly, that has come under scrutiny, as well. In fact, "The Washington Post" reporting that there was a classified document essentially outlining some enhanced procedures, essentially giving people more freedom to interrogate the prisoners down there in Guantanamo Bay. It's unclear, however, whether or not that same set of rules and guidelines was extended to the prisoners in Iraq. That is something that is certainly going to be receiving a lot of scrutiny, and what they say officially here is that they are not finished yet, and the releases of these photographs, as they say, they want to be very careful not to jeopardize the rights -- we heard this from Secretary Rumsfeld on Friday testifying before the congressional committees -- they want to be careful not to jeopardize the rights of the accused, and that is why they are not happy about these photographs that are emerging. And when you ask them about it, they're very terse, simply saying that this investigation goes on -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Elaine Quijano, at the Pentagon, thank you.
Well, the abuse of Iraqi prisoners was topic number one on many of the Sunday talk shows today. More lawmakers joined the chorus calling for secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, to resign. Others say he shouldn't be made a scapegoat.
CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux joins us now -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Fred, President Bush is back at the White House after spending his weekend at Camp David and wrapping up essentially what could be argued one of the most damaging weeks of his presidency. The White House is engaged in trying to resuscitate its reputation, but particularly that of Secretary Rumsfeld. Aides say that after a series of apologies from the president on down, the focus now, of course, is to see who is responsible for all this.
Now, despite these calls for Rumsfeld to resign, we are told from Bush aides that the president's support of the secretary has not waned, that he has led the country through two wars and efforts to transform the military, that he is much too valuable to actually lose. They have not yet lost the support of the Republican leadership for Rumsfeld. They are satisfied with his apologies and his explanations. They would like to move this forward, the investigation forward. But despite that, there is still much debate over his fate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Mr. President, every single major decision that has been suggested to you by Mr. Rumsfeld and Mr. Cheney, from there be enough oil to there be an army to stand up, to we have enough troops, et cetera, has been wrong. They have not made one fundamentally sound recommendation to the president. Mr. President, start listening to the other side of your team. These guys are good, honorable, patriotic men who are wrong about the policy.
LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I think it's nonsense. The secretary of defense ought to be judged on how well he does his overall job, not whether some group of people in Iraq, where he could not possibly have known about it at the time, did what they did. And it's horrendous -- what they did is horrendous. But to ask him to resign over this is to ignore the facts. This man has many things to manage, and he was managing them I think well, but he certainly cannot be held directly responsible for these acts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Now, Fred, that debate of course is going to continue, but White House officials say that their focus now is not so much on Secretary Rumsfeld but what is going to happen the future. That is the release of additional photos, as well as perhaps even a video clip of some of these alleged abuses. That is what the White House is bracing for. Tomorrow the president is actually going to go to the Pentagon. He is going to get a military briefing by Rumsfeld and top military officials about this scandal, about the latest in Iraq. That is meeting that was previously scheduled before the prison abuse scandal, but of course, it is going to be a top priority, and what the White House says is that they're going to be looking at how to manage this next wave of photos and videotape that eventually will be released.
They also say at the same time, however, the president is going to be standing shoulder to shoulder with Rumsfeld to show his support -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: And Suzanne, then after that meeting, as they stand shoulder to shoulder, is that really for the public to see? Is that going to be an opportunity for reporters to ask questions of the president as well as the defense secretary simultaneously?
MALVEAUX: Well, it's unclear whether or not the reporters will actually get a chance to ask questions to either one of them, but what is clear is that the president is going to make a very public and very important statement. It's expected that Rumsfeld will do the same, but the image of those two men standing side by side perhaps even more meaningful, more important, that symbol of the two of them, the White House and the Pentagon really together on this, moving forward. That is what the White House wants to convey here. They say they're not essentially scrutinizing Rumsfeld and his behavior. They're satisfied. What they're looking at is the future of these photos and this videotape, and how it is that they're going to handle this next wave.
WHITFIELD: All right. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thanks very much.
The president has apologized for the prisoner abuses, and so has the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. But how is that being received in the Arab world? We'll ask an expert coming up a little bit later on in the show.
While the controversy over the prisoner abuse rages, the violence continues in Iraq. Police are blaming another improvised explosive device for a blast at a crowded market in Baghdad today. At least five people were killed, including a child; 13 people were wounded. Six police officers are among them; one in critical condition.
Further south, the U.S. military is stepping up pressure on radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his militia. U.S. troops today began a major offensive to take control of parts of Najaf. The U.S. Army 2nd Cavalry extended its territory about a mile beyond its base in the city. Officials say they're using discretion during the fighting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. COL. PAT WHITE, U.S. ARMY: We will continue to conduct the operations, and if we're receiving any type of fire that may cause casualties or may damage our equipment, we're going to return fire, whether they're shooting from a house or not. However, with the artillery, a little bit bigger boom, does a little more damage. We take into careful consideration before we fire that we're keeping it out of a populated center and on the outskirts of the town, just so we don't, you know, needlessly kill anybody that we don't need to be killing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: The area involved in the operation is located away from the holy sites of the city.
Chechen President Akhmad Kadyrov has been assassinated. He was among at least six people killed when an explosion ripped through a crowded stadium in the troubled Russian province. Dozens of others were wounded. We get more now on the blast from our Ryan Chilcote, and some of the images in this piece may not be suitable for sensitive viewers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Raw video shows Russian servicemen at the Victory Day celebration in Chechnya, remembering the Soviet Union's defeat over the Nazis in 1945.
Then, spectators scrambling to take cover from gunfire that erupts moments after the blast. A scene of carnage at the VIP stand, where President Akhmad Kadyrov was killed. Among the injured, the commander of all Russian forces in Chechnya.
Children, World War II veterans and officials are whisked away from the scene.
In Moscow, the Russian president receives Kadyrov's son and pays tribute to his father's service in what he calls "the battle against terrorists in Chechnya."
"All these years," the Russian president says, "he was protecting Chechnya and its people. He was leading the republic to peaceful life."
Just two days ago, President Putin declared that peace had come to Chechnya, a claim that now looks hollow. He is promising retribution against the attackers.
(on camera): President Putin has appointed an interim leader in Chechnya, but there will now have to be new elections in that volatile region, and that could fuel a power struggle. Ravaged by war for the last decade, Chechnya now faces the prospect of still more turmoil.
Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Putting the theory of mind over matter to the test. Still to come, Dr. Sanjay Gupta introduces us to some professionals who do it every day. Find out how.
Plus, he captured the nation's attention when he was taken hostage in Iraq. Now, a free man, Thomas Hamill weighs in on the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal.
And still to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We almost lost hope when they shot the chopper out of the sky, because you don't see that except in the movies.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: Recovering from the battlefield's unseen scars.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: President Bush and his top deputies are offering apologies for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, but is that calming anger in the Arab world? Joining me is Edmund Ghareeb. He is a professor of international relations at American University in Washington, and the author of a new book, "The Historical Dictionary of Iraq." Good to see you, professor.
EDMUND GHAREEB, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: All right, well, we have heard a lot of apologies, not only from General Myers, the president, as well as Donald Rumsfeld. Is Arab community receiving that as a display of being contrite enough?
GHAREEB: Well, one of the first things that I think a lot -- some people appreciate, the expressions of apology, the fact that the mistakes were made. And others, however, are not. Others are waiting to see that the actions are going to take place. And whether or not U.S. officials are going to be those who are responsible, regardless of how high they are, they're going to be held accountable.
Nevertheless, I think some people have looked at some of the these apologies as a step in the right direction. But by themselves, they're not seen as enough. At least this is the initial response, as I've been following through the media in the region.
WHITFIELD: There have been some Iraqi prisoners, former prisoners, who have publicly expressed the feeling of shame, that these abuses were documented on video as well as on print, you know, pictures. So, is it being also interpreted in the Arab community -- these are not just cultural but also religious abuses, and these acts have crossed the line in so many ways, it's not just a matter of immorality?
GHAREEB: Well, this is it. In a way, this is almost like manna from heaven to the extremists, because they see that there has been a certain violations that have to do with religion, that have to do with culture, showing prisoners naked, the way they were being treated. And abuses that had taken place. These are seen as violations, culturally and religiously by many people in the area. And what's even more important is that there is also a symbolic aspect of it that's also very devastating, that these abuses have taken place at Abu Ghraib prison, which is in many ways has been also the place where some of the worst abuses and the tortures have taken place under the former regime.
WHITFIELD: And it was a prison that was shut down for a moment, and then only reopened once the occupation took place?
GHAREEB: Yes. And that's why a lot of people are raising questions, and in fact some people are saying, well, then, what's the difference? We have heard that the United States is coming here to bring freedom, to bring democracy, to bring liberation, that we're going to see protection of human rights. Well, what happened to all these?
WHITFIELD: Well, those were the objectives. However, there's been many expressions in the Arab community that the occupation is not sitting well with a number of people, and if there was already that anti-American sentiment before this, this only adds fuel to the fire.
GHAREEB: Yes. Very much so, Fredricka.
I think there are two things here. There is no doubt that there's been a great deal of criticism of U.S. policies in the area, some of it, for instance, having to do with Arab-Israeli conflict, some of it had to do with Iraq, the sanctions. Many people didn't believe that Iraq posed a threat, in fact they (UNINTELLIGIBLE). But what's dangerous about this, what's new, brings it to a new level is the fact that we're seeing something else that usually worked well for the United States, worked well for Americans, because there was a negative image and a positive image.
The positive image of America was not only that people liked American music, American culture, American film, they appreciated that, they liked American goods. But what's more important that that is that many people identified the United States with a society that -- of laws, where law governed. It's a society which supports human rights, which supports accountability.
WHITFIELD: Were there any impressions that anything positive was coming out of this war before we saw these photographs, in terms of it being received in the Arab community?
GHAREEB: Well, again, it depends on who you're talking to. There was no doubt that there were some people who did support the war. There were some people who felt that this might be the best way to get rid of Saddam Hussein. Nevertheless, if you go -- and we do have statistics, we have polls have been taken, and these show that in fact the majority of the people of the region were opposed to the war.
WHITFIELD: Professor Edmund Ghareeb, of American University, thanks very much for joining us.
GHAREEB: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Well, Iraq isn't the only nation the U.S. military is trying to stabilize. Still to come, how these Marines are working to bring security to Afghanistan. And up next...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is going to take you to three minutes of your mind (ph).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Pushing your life beyond the limits. Dr. Sanjay Gupta introduces us to extraordinary athletes who have turned their passions into their professions.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I trained by myself, because I didn't really have anybody that had the same drive that I did in the weight room.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Swimming a mile in the frigid waters off Antarctica, diving more than 500 feet in one breath, or climbing the world's highest mountains without extra oxygen would kill the average person, but a few extraordinary people test their bodies and wills and challenge medicine to redefine what's humanly possible.
CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta profiles them in a one-hour special, "Life Beyond the Limits." That's this evening. Looking forward to that.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's this evening, 9:00 o'clock Eastern. We've been very excited about this. Certainly one of the fine professionals who challenge themselves physically, these are the world-class athletes who do things that no one else can really do, but also we found that the mental, the emotional sort of challenges they have as well to be really remarkable, and there's medical and scientific basis behind how they do that. That was the question we were trying to answer. Here is a little bit of a look at some of them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (voice-over): Ed Veisturs, one of the world's toughest mountaineers, who's on a quest to summit the world's highest peaks, all over 26,000 feet, without the use of supplemental oxygen.
ED VIESTURS, HIGH ALTITUDE MOUNTAINEER: You have to have the desire or the thought that no matter what, this is the way I'm doing this. If you kind of say, well, I might use oxygen or I might try without, as soon as you put the word might in there, it gets so hard and so difficult.
GUPTA: Tanya Streeter, a world record holding free diver, who in a single breath plunges more than 500 feet below the sea.
TANYA STREETER, DRIVER: It's a sport like any other. You have to train, you have to understand what we're physiologically capable of doing, and you have to understand what your limitations are. I'm constantly preaching to people that they need to redefine their limits.
GUPTA: The strongman. Those who've been champion and those who still dream of titles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I trained by myself, because I didn't really have anybody that had the same drive that I did in the weight room. And it was -- for five years straight, I trained every day, five days a week. Sometimes six.
SVEND KARLSEN, STRONGMAN: I have a quest already from when I was born to be the biggest and the strongest man on this planet.
GUPTA: Lynne Cox, the extraordinary endurance swimmer who actually swam in the Antarctic Ocean, the coldest water on the planet.
LYNNE COX, COLD-WATER ENDURANCE SWIMMER: It's sort of like a huge experiential level that you're at, to jump into the water in Antarctica, but you're also jumping into the unknown, and things that you don't know about are going to occur during the swim, and that's what makes it exciting and challenging.
GUPTA: Through training, natural abilities and determination, these people are living lives beyond limits.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Wow. What an inspiration, as well.
GUPTA: They really are. They really are. I mean, we wanted to see if they physically were different than us somehow. That was the question I sort of had. Could I be like them?
WHITFIELD: Are you superhuman?
GUPTA: That's right. And if I trained long enough myself, could I do what they do? That was the question I had. The interesting thing was just the willpower that they have, the determination. You know, Lynne Cox, stepping in 32 degree water. Most -- most people...
WHITFIELD: And she's so mild mannered, you know. I spoke with her yesterday. And you know, you would just never guess that she is as courageous as she is, just on the surface.
GUPTA: Yeah.
WHITFIELD: Very modest.
GUPTA: Swam the English Channel when she was 15. Catalina Channel, from California to Catalina Island, and the coldest water in the world. Really remarkable.
WHITFIELD: So is there a real common denominator, though, besides the will that you speak of, of all these people? Is there something else that makes them all cut from the same cloth, so to speak?
GUPTA: You know, the thing that I found, and I asked them all a single -- all of them a question about whether or not they would do what they do if they could tell no one. You do what you do, but you can't tell anyone about it, climb the Everest, swim in the coldest water, and they all answered yes. And I think that's a lot of it, is that they're really doing this for themselves. They may inadvertently get money, they may inadvertently get fame, but they really are explorers of sorts, and they just want to test their own bodies' limits. But I think that determination, more than anything else, really, not that you've seen that people can do it, provides that inspiration.
WHITFIELD: Wow, it speaks to the passion. That's what's really fueling them all.
GUPTA: We were really inspired ourselves when we did that.
WHITFIELD: Yeah. OK. Looking forward to seeing that this evening, and we'll all be inspired. Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes us from Antarctica to Nepal to Coney Island, to the ocean's depth where amazing men and women push the limits tonight at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
Well, the moms behind the Oval Office. Still to come, Bill Schneider examines what it takes to raise a president.
And up next, Nancy Reagan gives us emotional new insights into the condition of her husband.
Plus, one military mother struggles to survive the shock of war.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired May 9, 2004 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: More bad news at your gas pump. How much higher will prices go this summer? We'll have the latest numbers and a forecast.
A bomb blast kills Chechnya's president. How were terrorists able to carry out the assassination?
Also this hour.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY REAGAN, FORMER FIRST LADY: Just don't see how we can turn our backs on this. There's so many diseases that can be cured, or at least helped.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: Nancy Reagan makes an emotional plea that runs counter to the Bush administration's policy.
Hello and welcome to CNN LIVE SUNDAY. I'm Fredricka Whitfield at the CNN Center in Atlanta. All that and more after a look at the headlines.
We learned today that comedian Alan King has died of lung cancer. He was 76. King, whose career spanned more than 50 years, was considered the quintessential Jewish comedian. Here's a clip from his last appearance on "LARRY KING LIVE" back in October of 2002.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALAN KING, COMEDIAN: A Jew from Texas went to Israel to teach them how to grow turkeys. And he went to this little Jewish farmer, and he said to him, Israeli farmer, and he said to him, how big is your farm? He says, oh, he says, about two acres. He said, two acres? The Jew said, what kind of farm do you have? He says, I got a farm. He says, I get in my car at 6:00 o'clock in the morning and he says by 7:00 o'clock at night, I'm still on my farm. The little Israeli Jew said, I had a car just like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: King appeared in 29 movies and was on "The Ed Sullivan Show" 56 times, the third most of anyone.
A few thousand women are spending this Mother's Day on the National Mall, crusading for stronger gun laws. They're taking part in a so-called Million Mom March. Organizers want Congress to strengthen and renew the assault weapons ban, and pass new laws mandating background checks and waiting periods.
U.S. apparently isn't the only coalition country that had reason to believe its troops were abusing Iraqi prisoners long before the scandal broke. A spokesman for the British Prime Minister Tony Blair says British officials were asked to investigate such claims as early as February. That spokesman won't say what action has been taken since.
Some unreleased photos depicting abuse by American forces will soon be shown to members of Congress. That's according to Republican John Warner, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. Some in Congress say the public should be allowed to see the pictures, as well.
We begin with an important date set in the Iraqi prison abuse scandal. The first court-martial in the case will begin in just a few days. Meanwhile, a new disturbing photo has emerged. CNN's Elaine Quijano joins us from the Pentagon with more details on that -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Fredricka. Well, as the military's investigations continue into the prisoner abuse scandal, May 19 will be the date of the very first court- martial, and it will be for Specialist Jeremy Sivits, of the 372nd Military Police Company, said to be court-martialed May 19.
Now, military spokesman in Baghdad announced that today, saying that Sivits will face a bad conduct discharge and is also facing multiple charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: The three charges against Specialist Sivits are conspiracy to maltreatment -- to maltreat subordinates and detainees, dereliction of duty for negligently failing to protect detainees from abuse, cruelty and maltreatment, and maltreatment of detainees.
The court-martial, U.S. v. Specialist Jeremy Sivits is docketed for May 19 and subject to final coordination and approval. The trials will be held at a location within this convention center here in Baghdad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now, Brigadier General Kimmitt also saying that the court-martial will be open to media coverage.
Now, at the same time, word of this court-martial date comes at a time -- at the same time that a new photograph has emerged. This one coming out in the latest edition of "The New Yorker" magazine. This part of an article by journalist Seymour Hersh, called "Chain of Command," and it shows a naked Iraqi detainee cowering as what appears to be Americans in uniform surround him with dogs at their sides. Now, Hersh says this is just one in a series of photographs like it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEYMOUR HERSH, "NEW YORKER": It's about 20 photographs. And it's from the beginning to the end, what it shows is the man -- the dogs getting closer and closer, barking at him. As I say, the whole time, at one point one of the -- one of the prison guards is smiling into the camera. It's just like sort of another day in the office. Eventually, we don't see the dogs actually bite him, but there is a series of photographs with the man on the ground with a gaping wound in his leg.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now, Seymour Hersh also says that the evidence suggests that cameras were part of the interrogation process, that threatening to show these pictures to neighbors and others was a way to get leverage.
Now, for its part, in response to word of a new picture emerging, a senior Pentagon official this weekend told me that the Pentagon was very much aware of the existence of hundreds of others photos, which this official described as part of the evidence in an ongoing investigation -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And have these photos, Elaine, inspired perhaps another look at how the detainees are being held in Guantanamo?
QUIJANO: Well, certainly, that has come under scrutiny, as well. In fact, "The Washington Post" reporting that there was a classified document essentially outlining some enhanced procedures, essentially giving people more freedom to interrogate the prisoners down there in Guantanamo Bay. It's unclear, however, whether or not that same set of rules and guidelines was extended to the prisoners in Iraq. That is something that is certainly going to be receiving a lot of scrutiny, and what they say officially here is that they are not finished yet, and the releases of these photographs, as they say, they want to be very careful not to jeopardize the rights -- we heard this from Secretary Rumsfeld on Friday testifying before the congressional committees -- they want to be careful not to jeopardize the rights of the accused, and that is why they are not happy about these photographs that are emerging. And when you ask them about it, they're very terse, simply saying that this investigation goes on -- Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Elaine Quijano, at the Pentagon, thank you.
Well, the abuse of Iraqi prisoners was topic number one on many of the Sunday talk shows today. More lawmakers joined the chorus calling for secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld, to resign. Others say he shouldn't be made a scapegoat.
CNN White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux joins us now -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Fred, President Bush is back at the White House after spending his weekend at Camp David and wrapping up essentially what could be argued one of the most damaging weeks of his presidency. The White House is engaged in trying to resuscitate its reputation, but particularly that of Secretary Rumsfeld. Aides say that after a series of apologies from the president on down, the focus now, of course, is to see who is responsible for all this.
Now, despite these calls for Rumsfeld to resign, we are told from Bush aides that the president's support of the secretary has not waned, that he has led the country through two wars and efforts to transform the military, that he is much too valuable to actually lose. They have not yet lost the support of the Republican leadership for Rumsfeld. They are satisfied with his apologies and his explanations. They would like to move this forward, the investigation forward. But despite that, there is still much debate over his fate.
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SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Mr. President, every single major decision that has been suggested to you by Mr. Rumsfeld and Mr. Cheney, from there be enough oil to there be an army to stand up, to we have enough troops, et cetera, has been wrong. They have not made one fundamentally sound recommendation to the president. Mr. President, start listening to the other side of your team. These guys are good, honorable, patriotic men who are wrong about the policy.
LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I think it's nonsense. The secretary of defense ought to be judged on how well he does his overall job, not whether some group of people in Iraq, where he could not possibly have known about it at the time, did what they did. And it's horrendous -- what they did is horrendous. But to ask him to resign over this is to ignore the facts. This man has many things to manage, and he was managing them I think well, but he certainly cannot be held directly responsible for these acts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: Now, Fred, that debate of course is going to continue, but White House officials say that their focus now is not so much on Secretary Rumsfeld but what is going to happen the future. That is the release of additional photos, as well as perhaps even a video clip of some of these alleged abuses. That is what the White House is bracing for. Tomorrow the president is actually going to go to the Pentagon. He is going to get a military briefing by Rumsfeld and top military officials about this scandal, about the latest in Iraq. That is meeting that was previously scheduled before the prison abuse scandal, but of course, it is going to be a top priority, and what the White House says is that they're going to be looking at how to manage this next wave of photos and videotape that eventually will be released.
They also say at the same time, however, the president is going to be standing shoulder to shoulder with Rumsfeld to show his support -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: And Suzanne, then after that meeting, as they stand shoulder to shoulder, is that really for the public to see? Is that going to be an opportunity for reporters to ask questions of the president as well as the defense secretary simultaneously?
MALVEAUX: Well, it's unclear whether or not the reporters will actually get a chance to ask questions to either one of them, but what is clear is that the president is going to make a very public and very important statement. It's expected that Rumsfeld will do the same, but the image of those two men standing side by side perhaps even more meaningful, more important, that symbol of the two of them, the White House and the Pentagon really together on this, moving forward. That is what the White House wants to convey here. They say they're not essentially scrutinizing Rumsfeld and his behavior. They're satisfied. What they're looking at is the future of these photos and this videotape, and how it is that they're going to handle this next wave.
WHITFIELD: All right. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thanks very much.
The president has apologized for the prisoner abuses, and so has the Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. But how is that being received in the Arab world? We'll ask an expert coming up a little bit later on in the show.
While the controversy over the prisoner abuse rages, the violence continues in Iraq. Police are blaming another improvised explosive device for a blast at a crowded market in Baghdad today. At least five people were killed, including a child; 13 people were wounded. Six police officers are among them; one in critical condition.
Further south, the U.S. military is stepping up pressure on radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and his militia. U.S. troops today began a major offensive to take control of parts of Najaf. The U.S. Army 2nd Cavalry extended its territory about a mile beyond its base in the city. Officials say they're using discretion during the fighting.
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LT. COL. PAT WHITE, U.S. ARMY: We will continue to conduct the operations, and if we're receiving any type of fire that may cause casualties or may damage our equipment, we're going to return fire, whether they're shooting from a house or not. However, with the artillery, a little bit bigger boom, does a little more damage. We take into careful consideration before we fire that we're keeping it out of a populated center and on the outskirts of the town, just so we don't, you know, needlessly kill anybody that we don't need to be killing.
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WHITFIELD: The area involved in the operation is located away from the holy sites of the city.
Chechen President Akhmad Kadyrov has been assassinated. He was among at least six people killed when an explosion ripped through a crowded stadium in the troubled Russian province. Dozens of others were wounded. We get more now on the blast from our Ryan Chilcote, and some of the images in this piece may not be suitable for sensitive viewers.
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RYAN CHILCOTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Raw video shows Russian servicemen at the Victory Day celebration in Chechnya, remembering the Soviet Union's defeat over the Nazis in 1945.
Then, spectators scrambling to take cover from gunfire that erupts moments after the blast. A scene of carnage at the VIP stand, where President Akhmad Kadyrov was killed. Among the injured, the commander of all Russian forces in Chechnya.
Children, World War II veterans and officials are whisked away from the scene.
In Moscow, the Russian president receives Kadyrov's son and pays tribute to his father's service in what he calls "the battle against terrorists in Chechnya."
"All these years," the Russian president says, "he was protecting Chechnya and its people. He was leading the republic to peaceful life."
Just two days ago, President Putin declared that peace had come to Chechnya, a claim that now looks hollow. He is promising retribution against the attackers.
(on camera): President Putin has appointed an interim leader in Chechnya, but there will now have to be new elections in that volatile region, and that could fuel a power struggle. Ravaged by war for the last decade, Chechnya now faces the prospect of still more turmoil.
Ryan Chilcote, CNN, Moscow.
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WHITFIELD: Putting the theory of mind over matter to the test. Still to come, Dr. Sanjay Gupta introduces us to some professionals who do it every day. Find out how.
Plus, he captured the nation's attention when he was taken hostage in Iraq. Now, a free man, Thomas Hamill weighs in on the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal.
And still to come.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We almost lost hope when they shot the chopper out of the sky, because you don't see that except in the movies.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WHITFIELD: Recovering from the battlefield's unseen scars.
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WHITFIELD: President Bush and his top deputies are offering apologies for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, but is that calming anger in the Arab world? Joining me is Edmund Ghareeb. He is a professor of international relations at American University in Washington, and the author of a new book, "The Historical Dictionary of Iraq." Good to see you, professor.
EDMUND GHAREEB, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: All right, well, we have heard a lot of apologies, not only from General Myers, the president, as well as Donald Rumsfeld. Is Arab community receiving that as a display of being contrite enough?
GHAREEB: Well, one of the first things that I think a lot -- some people appreciate, the expressions of apology, the fact that the mistakes were made. And others, however, are not. Others are waiting to see that the actions are going to take place. And whether or not U.S. officials are going to be those who are responsible, regardless of how high they are, they're going to be held accountable.
Nevertheless, I think some people have looked at some of the these apologies as a step in the right direction. But by themselves, they're not seen as enough. At least this is the initial response, as I've been following through the media in the region.
WHITFIELD: There have been some Iraqi prisoners, former prisoners, who have publicly expressed the feeling of shame, that these abuses were documented on video as well as on print, you know, pictures. So, is it being also interpreted in the Arab community -- these are not just cultural but also religious abuses, and these acts have crossed the line in so many ways, it's not just a matter of immorality?
GHAREEB: Well, this is it. In a way, this is almost like manna from heaven to the extremists, because they see that there has been a certain violations that have to do with religion, that have to do with culture, showing prisoners naked, the way they were being treated. And abuses that had taken place. These are seen as violations, culturally and religiously by many people in the area. And what's even more important is that there is also a symbolic aspect of it that's also very devastating, that these abuses have taken place at Abu Ghraib prison, which is in many ways has been also the place where some of the worst abuses and the tortures have taken place under the former regime.
WHITFIELD: And it was a prison that was shut down for a moment, and then only reopened once the occupation took place?
GHAREEB: Yes. And that's why a lot of people are raising questions, and in fact some people are saying, well, then, what's the difference? We have heard that the United States is coming here to bring freedom, to bring democracy, to bring liberation, that we're going to see protection of human rights. Well, what happened to all these?
WHITFIELD: Well, those were the objectives. However, there's been many expressions in the Arab community that the occupation is not sitting well with a number of people, and if there was already that anti-American sentiment before this, this only adds fuel to the fire.
GHAREEB: Yes. Very much so, Fredricka.
I think there are two things here. There is no doubt that there's been a great deal of criticism of U.S. policies in the area, some of it, for instance, having to do with Arab-Israeli conflict, some of it had to do with Iraq, the sanctions. Many people didn't believe that Iraq posed a threat, in fact they (UNINTELLIGIBLE). But what's dangerous about this, what's new, brings it to a new level is the fact that we're seeing something else that usually worked well for the United States, worked well for Americans, because there was a negative image and a positive image.
The positive image of America was not only that people liked American music, American culture, American film, they appreciated that, they liked American goods. But what's more important that that is that many people identified the United States with a society that -- of laws, where law governed. It's a society which supports human rights, which supports accountability.
WHITFIELD: Were there any impressions that anything positive was coming out of this war before we saw these photographs, in terms of it being received in the Arab community?
GHAREEB: Well, again, it depends on who you're talking to. There was no doubt that there were some people who did support the war. There were some people who felt that this might be the best way to get rid of Saddam Hussein. Nevertheless, if you go -- and we do have statistics, we have polls have been taken, and these show that in fact the majority of the people of the region were opposed to the war.
WHITFIELD: Professor Edmund Ghareeb, of American University, thanks very much for joining us.
GHAREEB: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Well, Iraq isn't the only nation the U.S. military is trying to stabilize. Still to come, how these Marines are working to bring security to Afghanistan. And up next...
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is going to take you to three minutes of your mind (ph).
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WHITFIELD: Pushing your life beyond the limits. Dr. Sanjay Gupta introduces us to extraordinary athletes who have turned their passions into their professions.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I trained by myself, because I didn't really have anybody that had the same drive that I did in the weight room.
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WHITFIELD: Swimming a mile in the frigid waters off Antarctica, diving more than 500 feet in one breath, or climbing the world's highest mountains without extra oxygen would kill the average person, but a few extraordinary people test their bodies and wills and challenge medicine to redefine what's humanly possible.
CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta profiles them in a one-hour special, "Life Beyond the Limits." That's this evening. Looking forward to that.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's this evening, 9:00 o'clock Eastern. We've been very excited about this. Certainly one of the fine professionals who challenge themselves physically, these are the world-class athletes who do things that no one else can really do, but also we found that the mental, the emotional sort of challenges they have as well to be really remarkable, and there's medical and scientific basis behind how they do that. That was the question we were trying to answer. Here is a little bit of a look at some of them.
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GUPTA (voice-over): Ed Veisturs, one of the world's toughest mountaineers, who's on a quest to summit the world's highest peaks, all over 26,000 feet, without the use of supplemental oxygen.
ED VIESTURS, HIGH ALTITUDE MOUNTAINEER: You have to have the desire or the thought that no matter what, this is the way I'm doing this. If you kind of say, well, I might use oxygen or I might try without, as soon as you put the word might in there, it gets so hard and so difficult.
GUPTA: Tanya Streeter, a world record holding free diver, who in a single breath plunges more than 500 feet below the sea.
TANYA STREETER, DRIVER: It's a sport like any other. You have to train, you have to understand what we're physiologically capable of doing, and you have to understand what your limitations are. I'm constantly preaching to people that they need to redefine their limits.
GUPTA: The strongman. Those who've been champion and those who still dream of titles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I trained by myself, because I didn't really have anybody that had the same drive that I did in the weight room. And it was -- for five years straight, I trained every day, five days a week. Sometimes six.
SVEND KARLSEN, STRONGMAN: I have a quest already from when I was born to be the biggest and the strongest man on this planet.
GUPTA: Lynne Cox, the extraordinary endurance swimmer who actually swam in the Antarctic Ocean, the coldest water on the planet.
LYNNE COX, COLD-WATER ENDURANCE SWIMMER: It's sort of like a huge experiential level that you're at, to jump into the water in Antarctica, but you're also jumping into the unknown, and things that you don't know about are going to occur during the swim, and that's what makes it exciting and challenging.
GUPTA: Through training, natural abilities and determination, these people are living lives beyond limits.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Wow. What an inspiration, as well.
GUPTA: They really are. They really are. I mean, we wanted to see if they physically were different than us somehow. That was the question I sort of had. Could I be like them?
WHITFIELD: Are you superhuman?
GUPTA: That's right. And if I trained long enough myself, could I do what they do? That was the question I had. The interesting thing was just the willpower that they have, the determination. You know, Lynne Cox, stepping in 32 degree water. Most -- most people...
WHITFIELD: And she's so mild mannered, you know. I spoke with her yesterday. And you know, you would just never guess that she is as courageous as she is, just on the surface.
GUPTA: Yeah.
WHITFIELD: Very modest.
GUPTA: Swam the English Channel when she was 15. Catalina Channel, from California to Catalina Island, and the coldest water in the world. Really remarkable.
WHITFIELD: So is there a real common denominator, though, besides the will that you speak of, of all these people? Is there something else that makes them all cut from the same cloth, so to speak?
GUPTA: You know, the thing that I found, and I asked them all a single -- all of them a question about whether or not they would do what they do if they could tell no one. You do what you do, but you can't tell anyone about it, climb the Everest, swim in the coldest water, and they all answered yes. And I think that's a lot of it, is that they're really doing this for themselves. They may inadvertently get money, they may inadvertently get fame, but they really are explorers of sorts, and they just want to test their own bodies' limits. But I think that determination, more than anything else, really, not that you've seen that people can do it, provides that inspiration.
WHITFIELD: Wow, it speaks to the passion. That's what's really fueling them all.
GUPTA: We were really inspired ourselves when we did that.
WHITFIELD: Yeah. OK. Looking forward to seeing that this evening, and we'll all be inspired. Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes us from Antarctica to Nepal to Coney Island, to the ocean's depth where amazing men and women push the limits tonight at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
Well, the moms behind the Oval Office. Still to come, Bill Schneider examines what it takes to raise a president.
And up next, Nancy Reagan gives us emotional new insights into the condition of her husband.
Plus, one military mother struggles to survive the shock of war.
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