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CNN Live Sunday

Interview With Semyon Dukach; Softward Company Helps Working Mothers Juggle Work, Home

Aired May 09, 2004 - 18:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: On this Mother's Day, some 2,000 women are rallying in the capital for tougher gun control laws. It is the second million-mom march. Supporters are calling for a renewal on assault rifles which is set to expire in September. A counter- demonstration was held nearby.
In Baghdad, a bomb exploded at the Four Seasons Hotel in Baghdad wounding at least six people. The victims they say are British and Nepalease contractors. The bottom was apparently placed outside the hotel, but ripped through a bar inside where the foreign contractors were sitting.

Spanish troops may be leaving Iraq sooner than expected. The new defense minister made a surprise visit to the troops south of Baghdad. Jose Bono hinted they may be heading home before the May 27 pullout date.

And there are new images of Iraqi prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison. This latest photo appears in the "New Yorker" magazine. It shows a naked prisoner backed up against a prison cell and American military personnel with dogs. The accompanying story was written by Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Seymour Hersh who spoke earlier today on CNN'S "LATE EDITION.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEYMOUR HERSH, NEW YORKER: This photo came from somebody in a different unit, the 372nd MP Battalion, also at the prison, but it's a whole separate group of people. So now all of a sudden we're not looking at six or seven possible suspects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: A U.S. soldier with first hand knowledge of Abu Ghraib Prison is shedding new light on what it was like inside. Sergeant Terry Stowe doesn't condone the abuses, but he says there are many reasons for what may have led to them. Dan Kerman from CNN affiliate KRON has this story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SGT. TERRY STOWE, U.S. ARMY: The soldiers that performed the act, yes, they need to be punished.

DAN KERMAN, KRON: Though he served as a guard at a different part of Baghdad's Abu Ghraib Prison, army reserve sergeant Terry Stowe can't understand why would compel the soldiers to abuse prisoners like this. But he says the blame must shared.

STOWE: Yes, they did wrong, but there are other people within the command that are just as responsible for not supervising.

KERMAN: Reflecting on his experiences from his sister's home in Redwood City, Stowe paints a picture of 12-hour work days, little sleep and constant mortar attacks. But even worse, he says, is a prison with little leadership. Officers who would not listen to those dealing directly with prisoners and other officers who would give conflicting orders.

STOWE: So it was like mass confusion. OK? Who's in charge. Where are the guidelines.

KERMAN: Stowe says it's the same kind of confusion that occurred during a prison riot in November during which he shot and killed two prisoners who were attacking other soldiers. He makes no apologies for that. The prisoner abuse is another matter. While there can be no excuses for it, he says during war, the mindset does exist for isolated incidents like that to occur.

STOWE: They tortured our people. I'm going to get some revenge. Some of the mentality's like that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And that was Dan Kreman from CNN affiliate KRON reporting.

Well, life is slowly returning back to normal for a man who spent three weeks as a hostage in Iraq. Thomas Hamill received a warm welcome during church services in his hometown today. The congregation had been been praying for his safe return. CNN's Mike Brooks reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every day after Tommy Hamill was captured on April 9 in Iraq, the small town of Macon, Mississippi, came together in a courthouse steps to pray for him and for the welfare of the troops and other hostages still held. People here have no doubt that prayer helped Tommy Hamill during his captivity and eventual escape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was being done every night and every day. It really brought this community together. And without prayer, he wouldn't have made it.

BROOKS: Late Saturday, Hamill, along with family and friends, gathered together at the courthouse for an emotional evening of prayer and unity. Tommy Hamill spoke candidly about how his faith gave him hope during his ordeal.

THOMAS HAMILL, HELD HOSTAGE IN IRAQ: I want everyone to know that my spiritual convictions, my inspiration, the lord, he brought me through this. He was my person to lean on. I leaned on him every day. And he carried me. He carried me a few days. If I had not had my god to speak to, I don't know what I would have done.

BROOKS: Hamill celebrated his 44th birthday Saturday, still trying to find some sense of normalcy since returning. He didn't want to make a big deal of his arrival home.

HAMILL: I didn't want to play this thing like a big grand sham home run. The one thing I found out with these people over there, you do not show fear in front of them. And you do not anger them. I knew this was going to anger them.

BROOKS: Hamill and his family attended church Sunday.

(on camera): For the near future, the daily prayer vigil will continue, because the people say there are still prayers to be answered. Mike Brooks, CNN, Macon, Mississippi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Elsewhere across America, at a mass in suburban Pittsburgh this Mother's Day, Senator John Kerry took communion in defiance of some Roman Catholic leaders. They say the sacriments should be denied the Democratic presidential hopeful hopeful because he supports abortion rights.

At Washington's Vietnam War Memorial, mothers who lost children to that conflict, and others gathered today for the 5th Annual Mother's Day at The Wall. Girl Scouts gave the women Mother's Day cards made by D.C.-area students.

Pennsylvanians are rechecking their power ball tickets to see if their $213 million richer. Lottery officials say one ticket with last night's winning jackpot numbers were sold in Pennsylvania. The numbers were 3, 9, 17, 37 and 43. And the Power Ball number was 39.

Playing the odds and coming out on top.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's us against them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't believe you're getting away with this at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Put on your thinking caps and see how they won millions at the casinos. Plus, one company is winning the hearts of mothers, we're goign to tell you how.

And they play in an important role in grooming the nation's leaders. One even moved with her son when he attended college. First moms straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: On this Mother's Day, many working moms are frustrated and they're speaking out. Well, a new survey by online recruiting firm careerbuilder.com finds most working mothers are under pressure. A third of those interviewed said they're dissatisfied with the balance between work and family life.

That's exactly what software company SAS tries to avoid. For the sixth time it made the top 10 list in the 100 best companies to work for. Jeff Chambers is Vice President of human resources. And Christine Kelly is a marketing manager and working mom. Both of them join me live from North Carolina to talk about that magic formula. Hi there.

Do you both have kids?

JEFF CHAMBERS, VP HUMAN RESOURCES SAS: Yes.

CHRISTINE KELLY, WORKING MOTHER: Yes.

LIN: Christine, how many do you have?

KELLY: I have two.

LIN: Jeff?

CHAMBERS: Four.

LIN: How old are they?

CHAMBERS: 16, 15, 12 and 12.

LIN: Christine?

KELLY: 5 and 8.

LIN: All right. So young kids, Christine?

KELLY: Young kids, yes.

LIN: What is it about your work experience at SAS, what do they do for you that makes it easier? I know they've got onsite day-care.

KELLY: Yes, they do. Both of my children were part of SAS's day-care.

LIN: Was it the daycare component, or are there other things? Because there are companies that have onsite day-care, or, you know, day-care subsidies. But what is it about the culture or how SAS operates that makes it good for you?

KELLY: When I started there I loved the environment being a private company. And there were a lot of women, rolemodels around, working moms and people able to balance work and have great careers, but still have kids around. And SAS, you see kids at the cafeteria, you see kids on campus. So, it makes for a great work environment.

LIN: Jeff, these kids are mingling around?

CHAMBERS: Oh, yes. It's very common for our employee...

LIN: How does anybody get anything done?

CHAMBERS: Well, it's very common for our employees to go get their kids, take them to the cafe for lunch, and then take them back to work. And we see all these things, on-site day-care and healthcare, is just helping our folks be more productive. We actually think it's a great business benefit.

LIN: Well, how can they be more productive when the kids are right there, tugging on mom and dad and they're running around, and they're needing to be managed or disciplined and entertained.

CHAMBERS: Well, you're not worring about them. You know they're just a building away.

KELLY: You can stay focused, because if you need to go see them, you can. But when you're at work, you can really work.

LIN: Jeff, why is it that more companies don't do this? Why is it so difficult. Is it liability? Is it culture? What is it?

CHAMBERS: I think it's a combination of a lot of factors. For us, people are the only ways we can make money, they we can service customers and produce great software. So we provide benefits that take care of people. So we just think it makes good business sense.

LIN: Jeff, I'm going to be the devil's advocate here.

CHAMBERS: Sure.

LIN: I'm going to say Jane or Joe employer, and I'm going to say, it's a heck of a lot easier for me to get a guy with no kids, more productive, less pulling at him, possibly less expensive. Is there something about women in the workplace that makes it more valuable to SAS to make life easier for them as working mothers?

CHAMBERS: I don't know. We've never really tried to measure that. I will tell you, though, half our population is female. And with 610 kids in onsite day-care we've made a significant contribution to this.

LIN: All right. Christine, I'm going to have you answer the question. What do women add to the workplace that makes it worthwhile?

KELLY: Well, I was laughing, because I think I saw as many men at the day-care as there were women. Or men taking or taking their kids to lunch. It's a really balanced, mixed environment. It's just a nice place to be. You get to really get to have a great career.

LIN: You're not saying that because Jeff is sitting next to you?

KELLY: No, I'm not.

LIN: But you know, that would not only be a working mom, that would be a smart woman I'm talking to.

Thank you very much, Christine, Jeff. Great example that SAS is giving all of us.

CHAMBERS: Thank you.

KELLY: You're welcome.

LIN: Coming up at 10:00 Eastern, I'm going to be talking to Carol Evans of Working Mother Media. And we're going to be talking about more ways for women to manage both their families and their careers. And when you have a child, you really know what that means.

And with Mother's Day greetings, Senator John Kerry and his wife attended mass in as Aspenwall, Pennsylvania today. But the Democratic presidential candidate refused to say what he gave his wife on this special day.

All right. They're not unusually -- or usually in the spotlight, but some women have played a very important role in the White House. All by influencing the president of the United States. CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider looks at very powerful first mothers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL SCHNEIDER, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): For most presidents the critical influence over their lives has been their mothers.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: You want to know where I get my fighting spirit? It all started with my mother.

LOU CANNON, JOURNALIST: I think that Reagan's mother was the key to his development, to his success as an adult human being.

SCHNEIDER: Lillian Carter imparted her commitment to public service to her son. JFK got his campaign spirit from his mother, Rose, the daughter of a politician. Sarah Dell Roosevelt lived with her son, Franklin, his entire life. Even moving to Boston with him when he went away to college. Historians have noticed a pattern.

HESS: Presidents by and large had very, very strong mothers and often women who have had considerable problems in their lives and in their -- and in their families. Husbands who may be abusive or alcoholic or just not doing very well in life. But by golly, they have gotten behind their children or at least the child who becomes president.

SCHNEIDER: Richard Nixon's mother seemed to fit this pattern. So did Gerald Ford's. Not every president got along with his mother. Case in point, George Washington.

HESS: In fact, his mother bid him out of his estate. Complained to the Continental Congress about him. It was a very rough relationship. SCHNEIDER: Two first mothers have also been first ladies. Abigail Adams, wife of the second president, mother of the sixth. Best remembered for her remarkable correspondence with her husband.

SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you read those brilliant letters between Abigail Adams and John Adams, you look at the way she kept that family together.

SCHNEIDER: And Barbara Bush, wife of the 41st president, mother of the 43rd and a considerable political force.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE U.S: Growing up, she gave me love and lots of advice. I gave her white hair.

SCHNEIDER (on camera): First moms do not shy away from politics. Barbara Bush has just written a Mother's Day fund raising letter for her son. Citing negative ads by John Kerry, she writes, I've been particularly disappointed in the personal attacks. There's a true political mother. How dare he attack my son? Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Trying to hit the jackpot? Still to come, grab a pen and paper for jackpot 101.

Foulproof. Foulproof? Or maybe foolproof methods that made some millionaires.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Gas prices are hitting a new record high. The average price for a gallon of self-serve regular nationwide is $1.93 a gallon. That's up a dime in the last two weeks. The latest price hike is mostly due to the rising cost of crude oil, it hit $40 a barrel Friday. Prices are expected to go even higher during the summer, the traditional peak driving season in the United States.

All right. So how would you like to have this problem? Winning too much money in Las Vegas. That's actually what happened to my guest in Boston, Semyon Dukach. He is part of the most successful M.I.T. Blackjack team to break the bank in Vegas. So successful he was banned from the casinos. And now he's sharing his secrets in a new documentary.

Semyon we are ready to make some money. How did you guys get these ideas to play Vegas?

SEMYON DUKACH, MIT BLACKJACK TEAM: People at M.I.T been thinking about the problem for a long time. And they applied mathematical analysis and figured out a way to actually go in and beat the casinos. So I joined this group.

LIN: How much money did you win?

DUKACH: We won millions of dollars. LIN: How many millions? Are you independently wealthy now?

DUKACH: I almost have enough to fill up my car with gas at these prices.

LIN: So what did you learn? I mean, how do you apply mathematics to breaking the bank?

DUKACH: It's a question of counting cards. And being aware of information that happens, without having to memorize everything. Coming up with the techniques is fairly complex, but actually applying them in the casino is straightforward. We've trained a lot of people to do it. Now, there even seminars -- Blackjackscience.com where we take absolutely ordinary people and teach them to beat the casinos.

LIN: All right. Give me a mini seminar then, you've got 40 seconds here. Give me a mini seminar.

DUKACH: I don't know if I can, quite, teach you enough to win in 40 seconds.

LIN: Or give me a for example.

DUKACH: It's a question of being aware of the cards that are out. Playing intelligently. You can read a little bit about it. There's a book called bringing "Down the House." That's a best-seller right now by Ben Nesritt (ph). And the special that's on the History Channel at 9:00 p.m. tonight, talks a little bit about the actual methods as well.

LIN: What do you mean about reading the cards? What do you mean by reading the cards?

DUKACH: Oh, it's -- you end up adding up numbers, sort of keeping track of some information without having to memorize cards. You know, some cards, say subtract one of the cards, you add one to a running count. And you just keep this one number in your head. And do a few simple things like that.

LIN: Give me a for example. You're sitting at the table. Give me an example. Paint out a scenario for me.

DUKACH: Well, for example, you're sitting at the table, and you're betting a lot of money, because the count is high, and you have a pair of 10s, and sometimes it's actually correct to split the 10s, to put more money out to risk winning a little extra. And you know when to do that based on learning how to count cards.

And the other thing you need to do, after you win a lot and see a lot of pit bosses watching you and getting a little suspicious looking, take your chips and leave.

LIN: These casinos are looking for people like you. They've got cameras overhead. How is it that you guys were able to make so much money? DUKACH: Well, we would try to act in ways that they would expect. Play to their prejudices a little bit. We didn't act like college students. We acted like gamblers. And we would move around, send different people in. Everything we did was legal. We used our heads. We didn't cheat in any way. And so they could ask us to stop playing, but they couldn't really put us out of business.

LIN: Have you heard back from the casinos?

DUKACH: No. No, I haven't.

LIN: You haven't? All right. But you got their money. Semyon, good for you. We'll be watching and taking your tips to Vegas, thanks so much.

DUKACH: Thanks.

LIN: That's all we have time for this hour. But coming up at 7:00 Eastern on "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," music legend Carly Simon reflects on her 30-year career and her battles with depressionon and breast cancer.

"CNN PRESENTS: Hope and Fire" a look at the U.S. occupation in Iraq.

At 9:00 eastern, "Life Beyond Limits." This is the special we've been talking about all week, from fire eating, to free diving, to braving frigid waters, Dr. Sanjay Gupta shows us how a select few stretch the normal boundaries of human endurance.

And NBA star Kobe Bryant heads back to court to be arraigned this week. What's expected in the hearings? I'm going to be dissecting all of that. That case in particular with our guest tonight at 10:00 in our rap sheet. The hour's headlines when I come back and then "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS."

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 9, 2004 - 18:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: On this Mother's Day, some 2,000 women are rallying in the capital for tougher gun control laws. It is the second million-mom march. Supporters are calling for a renewal on assault rifles which is set to expire in September. A counter- demonstration was held nearby.
In Baghdad, a bomb exploded at the Four Seasons Hotel in Baghdad wounding at least six people. The victims they say are British and Nepalease contractors. The bottom was apparently placed outside the hotel, but ripped through a bar inside where the foreign contractors were sitting.

Spanish troops may be leaving Iraq sooner than expected. The new defense minister made a surprise visit to the troops south of Baghdad. Jose Bono hinted they may be heading home before the May 27 pullout date.

And there are new images of Iraqi prisoner abuse at the Abu Ghraib Prison. This latest photo appears in the "New Yorker" magazine. It shows a naked prisoner backed up against a prison cell and American military personnel with dogs. The accompanying story was written by Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Seymour Hersh who spoke earlier today on CNN'S "LATE EDITION.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEYMOUR HERSH, NEW YORKER: This photo came from somebody in a different unit, the 372nd MP Battalion, also at the prison, but it's a whole separate group of people. So now all of a sudden we're not looking at six or seven possible suspects.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: A U.S. soldier with first hand knowledge of Abu Ghraib Prison is shedding new light on what it was like inside. Sergeant Terry Stowe doesn't condone the abuses, but he says there are many reasons for what may have led to them. Dan Kerman from CNN affiliate KRON has this story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SGT. TERRY STOWE, U.S. ARMY: The soldiers that performed the act, yes, they need to be punished.

DAN KERMAN, KRON: Though he served as a guard at a different part of Baghdad's Abu Ghraib Prison, army reserve sergeant Terry Stowe can't understand why would compel the soldiers to abuse prisoners like this. But he says the blame must shared.

STOWE: Yes, they did wrong, but there are other people within the command that are just as responsible for not supervising.

KERMAN: Reflecting on his experiences from his sister's home in Redwood City, Stowe paints a picture of 12-hour work days, little sleep and constant mortar attacks. But even worse, he says, is a prison with little leadership. Officers who would not listen to those dealing directly with prisoners and other officers who would give conflicting orders.

STOWE: So it was like mass confusion. OK? Who's in charge. Where are the guidelines.

KERMAN: Stowe says it's the same kind of confusion that occurred during a prison riot in November during which he shot and killed two prisoners who were attacking other soldiers. He makes no apologies for that. The prisoner abuse is another matter. While there can be no excuses for it, he says during war, the mindset does exist for isolated incidents like that to occur.

STOWE: They tortured our people. I'm going to get some revenge. Some of the mentality's like that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And that was Dan Kreman from CNN affiliate KRON reporting.

Well, life is slowly returning back to normal for a man who spent three weeks as a hostage in Iraq. Thomas Hamill received a warm welcome during church services in his hometown today. The congregation had been been praying for his safe return. CNN's Mike Brooks reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE BROOKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every day after Tommy Hamill was captured on April 9 in Iraq, the small town of Macon, Mississippi, came together in a courthouse steps to pray for him and for the welfare of the troops and other hostages still held. People here have no doubt that prayer helped Tommy Hamill during his captivity and eventual escape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was being done every night and every day. It really brought this community together. And without prayer, he wouldn't have made it.

BROOKS: Late Saturday, Hamill, along with family and friends, gathered together at the courthouse for an emotional evening of prayer and unity. Tommy Hamill spoke candidly about how his faith gave him hope during his ordeal.

THOMAS HAMILL, HELD HOSTAGE IN IRAQ: I want everyone to know that my spiritual convictions, my inspiration, the lord, he brought me through this. He was my person to lean on. I leaned on him every day. And he carried me. He carried me a few days. If I had not had my god to speak to, I don't know what I would have done.

BROOKS: Hamill celebrated his 44th birthday Saturday, still trying to find some sense of normalcy since returning. He didn't want to make a big deal of his arrival home.

HAMILL: I didn't want to play this thing like a big grand sham home run. The one thing I found out with these people over there, you do not show fear in front of them. And you do not anger them. I knew this was going to anger them.

BROOKS: Hamill and his family attended church Sunday.

(on camera): For the near future, the daily prayer vigil will continue, because the people say there are still prayers to be answered. Mike Brooks, CNN, Macon, Mississippi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Elsewhere across America, at a mass in suburban Pittsburgh this Mother's Day, Senator John Kerry took communion in defiance of some Roman Catholic leaders. They say the sacriments should be denied the Democratic presidential hopeful hopeful because he supports abortion rights.

At Washington's Vietnam War Memorial, mothers who lost children to that conflict, and others gathered today for the 5th Annual Mother's Day at The Wall. Girl Scouts gave the women Mother's Day cards made by D.C.-area students.

Pennsylvanians are rechecking their power ball tickets to see if their $213 million richer. Lottery officials say one ticket with last night's winning jackpot numbers were sold in Pennsylvania. The numbers were 3, 9, 17, 37 and 43. And the Power Ball number was 39.

Playing the odds and coming out on top.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's us against them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't believe you're getting away with this at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Put on your thinking caps and see how they won millions at the casinos. Plus, one company is winning the hearts of mothers, we're goign to tell you how.

And they play in an important role in grooming the nation's leaders. One even moved with her son when he attended college. First moms straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: On this Mother's Day, many working moms are frustrated and they're speaking out. Well, a new survey by online recruiting firm careerbuilder.com finds most working mothers are under pressure. A third of those interviewed said they're dissatisfied with the balance between work and family life.

That's exactly what software company SAS tries to avoid. For the sixth time it made the top 10 list in the 100 best companies to work for. Jeff Chambers is Vice President of human resources. And Christine Kelly is a marketing manager and working mom. Both of them join me live from North Carolina to talk about that magic formula. Hi there.

Do you both have kids?

JEFF CHAMBERS, VP HUMAN RESOURCES SAS: Yes.

CHRISTINE KELLY, WORKING MOTHER: Yes.

LIN: Christine, how many do you have?

KELLY: I have two.

LIN: Jeff?

CHAMBERS: Four.

LIN: How old are they?

CHAMBERS: 16, 15, 12 and 12.

LIN: Christine?

KELLY: 5 and 8.

LIN: All right. So young kids, Christine?

KELLY: Young kids, yes.

LIN: What is it about your work experience at SAS, what do they do for you that makes it easier? I know they've got onsite day-care.

KELLY: Yes, they do. Both of my children were part of SAS's day-care.

LIN: Was it the daycare component, or are there other things? Because there are companies that have onsite day-care, or, you know, day-care subsidies. But what is it about the culture or how SAS operates that makes it good for you?

KELLY: When I started there I loved the environment being a private company. And there were a lot of women, rolemodels around, working moms and people able to balance work and have great careers, but still have kids around. And SAS, you see kids at the cafeteria, you see kids on campus. So, it makes for a great work environment.

LIN: Jeff, these kids are mingling around?

CHAMBERS: Oh, yes. It's very common for our employee...

LIN: How does anybody get anything done?

CHAMBERS: Well, it's very common for our employees to go get their kids, take them to the cafe for lunch, and then take them back to work. And we see all these things, on-site day-care and healthcare, is just helping our folks be more productive. We actually think it's a great business benefit.

LIN: Well, how can they be more productive when the kids are right there, tugging on mom and dad and they're running around, and they're needing to be managed or disciplined and entertained.

CHAMBERS: Well, you're not worring about them. You know they're just a building away.

KELLY: You can stay focused, because if you need to go see them, you can. But when you're at work, you can really work.

LIN: Jeff, why is it that more companies don't do this? Why is it so difficult. Is it liability? Is it culture? What is it?

CHAMBERS: I think it's a combination of a lot of factors. For us, people are the only ways we can make money, they we can service customers and produce great software. So we provide benefits that take care of people. So we just think it makes good business sense.

LIN: Jeff, I'm going to be the devil's advocate here.

CHAMBERS: Sure.

LIN: I'm going to say Jane or Joe employer, and I'm going to say, it's a heck of a lot easier for me to get a guy with no kids, more productive, less pulling at him, possibly less expensive. Is there something about women in the workplace that makes it more valuable to SAS to make life easier for them as working mothers?

CHAMBERS: I don't know. We've never really tried to measure that. I will tell you, though, half our population is female. And with 610 kids in onsite day-care we've made a significant contribution to this.

LIN: All right. Christine, I'm going to have you answer the question. What do women add to the workplace that makes it worthwhile?

KELLY: Well, I was laughing, because I think I saw as many men at the day-care as there were women. Or men taking or taking their kids to lunch. It's a really balanced, mixed environment. It's just a nice place to be. You get to really get to have a great career.

LIN: You're not saying that because Jeff is sitting next to you?

KELLY: No, I'm not.

LIN: But you know, that would not only be a working mom, that would be a smart woman I'm talking to.

Thank you very much, Christine, Jeff. Great example that SAS is giving all of us.

CHAMBERS: Thank you.

KELLY: You're welcome.

LIN: Coming up at 10:00 Eastern, I'm going to be talking to Carol Evans of Working Mother Media. And we're going to be talking about more ways for women to manage both their families and their careers. And when you have a child, you really know what that means.

And with Mother's Day greetings, Senator John Kerry and his wife attended mass in as Aspenwall, Pennsylvania today. But the Democratic presidential candidate refused to say what he gave his wife on this special day.

All right. They're not unusually -- or usually in the spotlight, but some women have played a very important role in the White House. All by influencing the president of the United States. CNN senior political analyst Bill Schneider looks at very powerful first mothers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL SCHNEIDER, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): For most presidents the critical influence over their lives has been their mothers.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: You want to know where I get my fighting spirit? It all started with my mother.

LOU CANNON, JOURNALIST: I think that Reagan's mother was the key to his development, to his success as an adult human being.

SCHNEIDER: Lillian Carter imparted her commitment to public service to her son. JFK got his campaign spirit from his mother, Rose, the daughter of a politician. Sarah Dell Roosevelt lived with her son, Franklin, his entire life. Even moving to Boston with him when he went away to college. Historians have noticed a pattern.

HESS: Presidents by and large had very, very strong mothers and often women who have had considerable problems in their lives and in their -- and in their families. Husbands who may be abusive or alcoholic or just not doing very well in life. But by golly, they have gotten behind their children or at least the child who becomes president.

SCHNEIDER: Richard Nixon's mother seemed to fit this pattern. So did Gerald Ford's. Not every president got along with his mother. Case in point, George Washington.

HESS: In fact, his mother bid him out of his estate. Complained to the Continental Congress about him. It was a very rough relationship. SCHNEIDER: Two first mothers have also been first ladies. Abigail Adams, wife of the second president, mother of the sixth. Best remembered for her remarkable correspondence with her husband.

SEN. JOHN KERRY, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you read those brilliant letters between Abigail Adams and John Adams, you look at the way she kept that family together.

SCHNEIDER: And Barbara Bush, wife of the 41st president, mother of the 43rd and a considerable political force.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE U.S: Growing up, she gave me love and lots of advice. I gave her white hair.

SCHNEIDER (on camera): First moms do not shy away from politics. Barbara Bush has just written a Mother's Day fund raising letter for her son. Citing negative ads by John Kerry, she writes, I've been particularly disappointed in the personal attacks. There's a true political mother. How dare he attack my son? Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Trying to hit the jackpot? Still to come, grab a pen and paper for jackpot 101.

Foulproof. Foulproof? Or maybe foolproof methods that made some millionaires.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Gas prices are hitting a new record high. The average price for a gallon of self-serve regular nationwide is $1.93 a gallon. That's up a dime in the last two weeks. The latest price hike is mostly due to the rising cost of crude oil, it hit $40 a barrel Friday. Prices are expected to go even higher during the summer, the traditional peak driving season in the United States.

All right. So how would you like to have this problem? Winning too much money in Las Vegas. That's actually what happened to my guest in Boston, Semyon Dukach. He is part of the most successful M.I.T. Blackjack team to break the bank in Vegas. So successful he was banned from the casinos. And now he's sharing his secrets in a new documentary.

Semyon we are ready to make some money. How did you guys get these ideas to play Vegas?

SEMYON DUKACH, MIT BLACKJACK TEAM: People at M.I.T been thinking about the problem for a long time. And they applied mathematical analysis and figured out a way to actually go in and beat the casinos. So I joined this group.

LIN: How much money did you win?

DUKACH: We won millions of dollars. LIN: How many millions? Are you independently wealthy now?

DUKACH: I almost have enough to fill up my car with gas at these prices.

LIN: So what did you learn? I mean, how do you apply mathematics to breaking the bank?

DUKACH: It's a question of counting cards. And being aware of information that happens, without having to memorize everything. Coming up with the techniques is fairly complex, but actually applying them in the casino is straightforward. We've trained a lot of people to do it. Now, there even seminars -- Blackjackscience.com where we take absolutely ordinary people and teach them to beat the casinos.

LIN: All right. Give me a mini seminar then, you've got 40 seconds here. Give me a mini seminar.

DUKACH: I don't know if I can, quite, teach you enough to win in 40 seconds.

LIN: Or give me a for example.

DUKACH: It's a question of being aware of the cards that are out. Playing intelligently. You can read a little bit about it. There's a book called bringing "Down the House." That's a best-seller right now by Ben Nesritt (ph). And the special that's on the History Channel at 9:00 p.m. tonight, talks a little bit about the actual methods as well.

LIN: What do you mean about reading the cards? What do you mean by reading the cards?

DUKACH: Oh, it's -- you end up adding up numbers, sort of keeping track of some information without having to memorize cards. You know, some cards, say subtract one of the cards, you add one to a running count. And you just keep this one number in your head. And do a few simple things like that.

LIN: Give me a for example. You're sitting at the table. Give me an example. Paint out a scenario for me.

DUKACH: Well, for example, you're sitting at the table, and you're betting a lot of money, because the count is high, and you have a pair of 10s, and sometimes it's actually correct to split the 10s, to put more money out to risk winning a little extra. And you know when to do that based on learning how to count cards.

And the other thing you need to do, after you win a lot and see a lot of pit bosses watching you and getting a little suspicious looking, take your chips and leave.

LIN: These casinos are looking for people like you. They've got cameras overhead. How is it that you guys were able to make so much money? DUKACH: Well, we would try to act in ways that they would expect. Play to their prejudices a little bit. We didn't act like college students. We acted like gamblers. And we would move around, send different people in. Everything we did was legal. We used our heads. We didn't cheat in any way. And so they could ask us to stop playing, but they couldn't really put us out of business.

LIN: Have you heard back from the casinos?

DUKACH: No. No, I haven't.

LIN: You haven't? All right. But you got their money. Semyon, good for you. We'll be watching and taking your tips to Vegas, thanks so much.

DUKACH: Thanks.

LIN: That's all we have time for this hour. But coming up at 7:00 Eastern on "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," music legend Carly Simon reflects on her 30-year career and her battles with depressionon and breast cancer.

"CNN PRESENTS: Hope and Fire" a look at the U.S. occupation in Iraq.

At 9:00 eastern, "Life Beyond Limits." This is the special we've been talking about all week, from fire eating, to free diving, to braving frigid waters, Dr. Sanjay Gupta shows us how a select few stretch the normal boundaries of human endurance.

And NBA star Kobe Bryant heads back to court to be arraigned this week. What's expected in the hearings? I'm going to be dissecting all of that. That case in particular with our guest tonight at 10:00 in our rap sheet. The hour's headlines when I come back and then "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS."

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