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American Morning

Prisoner Abuse Scandal; Interview With Senator John Cornyn; Kobe Bryant Case

Aired May 10, 2004 - 9:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Can the secretary of defense survive the Iraq prison abuse scandal? This morning, the President delivers a message to the Pentagon.
Kobe Bryant expected to speak this week in court words no one will be surprised to hear.

And an issue that could determine the presidential election. Do Americans still believe the economy is on the skids? That's ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody -- 9:01 here in New York. Soledad is back with us this week after some rest last week.

O'BRIEN: I'm already worn out.

HEMMER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: It's like two hours and one minute in.

HEMMER: You look rested.

O'BRIEN: I need to go on vacation.

HEMMER: In a few moments -- take us with you. In a few moments, Republican Senator Joan Cornyn, from Texas, asking him about the Iraq abuse scandal, whether or not he thinks Secretary Rumsfeld should step aside. I'll also get his reaction from the newest photos that were made public over the weekend.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, something a little bit different. A rare and risky operation that gave a team of veterinarians a real test, removing a lung from a 400-pound gorilla. We're going to tell you how that operation turned out.

HEMMER: All right. To our own 400-pound gorilla, Jack Cafferty.

O'BRIEN: That was good. Come on.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Love that. I was just thinking, you want to make sure the anaesthetic has taken hold before you start that operation. O'BRIEN: Yes.

HEMMER: I bet you do.

CAFFERTY: Make sure he's out.

Should John Kerry be given communion by the Catholic Church despite the fact that he advocates abortion rights for women? It's becoming an issue in some places. Some bishops threatening to withhold the sacrament because of his beliefs on that issue. We're interested in what you think -- AM@CNN.com.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to our stop stories this morning.

In Iraq, coalition forces stepping up operations against radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadder. Soldiers destroyed al-Sadr's headquarters in Baghdad overnight. Some 19 insurgents were killed in a series of clashes with U.S. soldiers.

And U.S. Marines and a new Iraqi security corps are together patrolling streets in Fallujah. Military officials say the corps may have better luck persuading insurgents to disarm.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair has apologized for any abuses committed by Iraqi prisoners by British soldiers in Iraq. Speaking to French television yesterday, Blair said those responsible for any mistreatments would be punished. The Ministry of Defense says 33 cases of possible abuse are now under investigation. The British defense secretary is expected to make a statement on that issue today.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has cancelled an upcoming visit to the U.S. The prime minister was scheduled to meet with a pro-Israel lobbying group in Washington, D.C., next week. The cancellation comes as Sharon steps up work on a new plan to pull out from Gaza. His original proposal was rejected by his Likud Party earlier this month.

Another three-day hearing in NBA star Kobe Bryant's court case taking place in Eagle, Colorado. It begins today. Bryant is expected to plead not guilty to one charge of sexual assault. Lawyers will discuss whether the accuser's sexual history will be admissible in court.

And look at these pictures. Residents in Minnesota cleaning up after some wild storms rumbled through parts of that state. The severe weather spawned tornadoes and funnel clouds. Winds of over 70 miles an hour uprooted trees in some areas, leaving thousands of folks there without power. Fortunately, though, in spite of the pictures, there were no reports of any serious injuries, which, of course, we like to say.

HEMMER: No question. Good news there.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: We now know the date for the first court-martial stemming from the Iraqi abuse scandal. Specialist Jeremy Sivits will be tried May 19 in Baghdad. A charge of mistreating detainees. President Bush, meanwhile, going to the Pentagon today for a briefing that was scheduled before the current scandal exploded. Pentagon Barbara Starr there this morning with us.

Good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

Well, it was scheduled before this latest prisoner abuse scandal erupted, but this meeting, likely topic number one, will be the detainee abuse story. President Bush expected to get an hour-long briefing here at the Pentagon. He will then come out and talk to cameras, expected to make a vigorous statement about Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and his support for the defense secretary.

But as you say, in the meantime, the military is moving ahead with the criminal prosecution of some of these soldiers, trying to demonstrate that they are ahead of it and are proceeding. Specialist Jeremy Sivits will go on trial in Baghdad May 19. He is accused of maltreatment of prisoners, conspiracy to maltreat prisoners, and dereliction of duty for failing to protect prisoners. The first of several soldiers expected to go to trial.

And sources say that trial, that court-martial proceeding in Baghdad will be open to news media coverage, as many court-martial proceedings are. But in this one in particular, they want to demonstrate U.S. military justice to the Arab world. So expect to see plenty of news coverage -- Bill.

HEMMER: Barbara, on the topic of more evidence, more photos, possibly a videotape, how much concern is there today at the Pentagon about that end of the story?

STARR: There is a great deal of concern. Now, first, they do know there are more pictures. Top officials have more pictures in their possession. That is why there is an agreement to show some of these pictures in a classified environment to Capitol Hill, senators and congressmen, so they can see them and not be surprised by them if they come out in the news media.

But the deeper concern is there may be pictures, there may be videotapes out there that no one has seen yet. And those could emerge. And one of the reasons there is so much concern about this, very respected human rights organizations, for example, the International Committee of the Red Cross, have now made public that they have been worried about abuse for months.

The ICRC put out a report in February, and officials over the weekend confirmed that in that report, they told the United States that what was going on in some U.S. prisons in Iraq was, "tantamount to torture." That from the ICRC. One ICRC official saying, "What we're dealing with here is a broader pattern and system as opposed to individual acts." So a lot of worry that there may be pictures showing just that -- Bill. HEMMER: Barbara Starr from the Pentagon.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: An editorial today in four newspapers, the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps Times, is a call for someone, specifically Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and joint chiefs chairman, General Richard Myers, to take some responsibility for the scandal.

It says, in part, this: "On the battlefield, Myers and Rumsfeld errors would be killed a lack of situational awareness, a failure that amounts to professional negligence. This was not just a failure of leadership at the local command level. This was a failure that ran straight to the top. Accountability here is essential, even if that means relieving top leaders from duty in a time of war."

Here with reaction to that and the whole situation, is Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn. He's in Washington, D.C. for us this morning.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for being with us.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Why do you think Secretary Rumsfeld should keep his job?

CORNYN: Well, I think that Secretary Rumsfeld has done what he should, and that is acknowledge his failure to communicate both with the commander in chief and with Congress about this. But there is no question also that the Department of Defense took these allegations very seriously when they first announced in a press release on January 16 that they were beginning an investigation, which has now led up to seven criminal indictments and now the first court-martial here later this month.

O'BRIEN: You say took the allegations seriously, and yet people who would disagree with you would say that, in fact, the secretary wasn't really aware of them until mid January, that in spite of these allegations of abuse, he never pressed to have all of the photos shown to him, that, in fact, he neglected to mention it to the President of the United States, who had to find out about it when he watched a TV show. And, in fact, when he was asked in his testimony if he read the report, he pointed to the stack of papers in the report and said, well, you know, essentially, look at it, it's two feet high. I read the executive summary.

Don't those things essentially define a failure in leadership?

CORNYN: Well, I think if there is a failure -- and clearly there is -- it's a failure of communication. It's not a failure of prosecute or take these matters very seriously.

That happened from the very beginning. And, in fact, this, in some ways, is old news. It happened last January, when the first press conference was held announcing the investigation, and then in March, when the first criminal indictments came out. But clearly, what has galvanized, what has riveted the world's attention on this or these photographs, which are, indeed, very troubling, and we've got to get to the bottom of it.

O'BRIEN: You say it's old news. So then are you essentially saying that the secretary and others did not really understand the impact, the effect that these photos would have, not only here in the United States, but, of course, around the world?

CORNYN: Well, I think, yes, there is a difference between the written word, which we had seen before, reports of this investigation, and then seeing this -- these photographs that are part of the evidence that are being -- was being accumulated in a criminal investigation leading up to a prosecution, the first of which will occur here later this month. But I would say that rather than resign, I think Secretary Rumsfeld, indeed, has a duty to serve at this critical time in our work in Iraq.

It would be, I think, a very negative thing for the secretary to resign at this time, especially when it does appear that the people who were involved in this were limited to perhaps 15 or 20, at most. At least that's what it looks like at this time. And it was not about an official policy, but, in fact, now, we're seeing the criminal justice system work its way. And I think it's important to show the world, including the Arab world, that we do believe in justice and do believe that those who are guilty should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

O'BRIEN: I want to play a short clip of what Chuck Haggle had to say. He's a Republican, as you well know. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I think they have made major mistakes. And we will see how far this goes and where it goes. But, yes, I think it's still in question whether Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and, quite frankly, General Myers, can command the respect and the trust and the confidence of the military and the American people to lead this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: For an administration that prides itself on steady leadership, who do you think eventually needs to take the blame here?

CORNYN: Well, I think, you know, it remains to be seen. Obviously, all we could do is judge what we know now. And I was a member -- I am a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, heard the secretary of defense apologize for his failure to communicate this matter to the President and also to the Congress. We don't know where it will all lead, but what we do know, that in the public court- martial trial that's going to occur later this month, this is going to be open to the entire world.

This is part of the important lesson. I think we need to demonstrate to the world that we believe in justice, and we believe that people who are guilty should be held accountable. And that goes to the top, if they are guilty. But right now, there is no evidence that indicates this went beyond a handful of soldiers who were improperly trained and improperly supervised and committed some acts that we all find repulsive.

O'BRIEN: Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, joining us this morning. Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for your time.

CORNYN: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: Public confidence in the economy is at its lowest point of the year, we're told, according to a new Gallup poll just out today. Fifty-one percent of those surveyed think the economy is getting worse. The poll was taken before the government released figures on Friday showing a surge in hiring and a drop in the unemployment rate down to 5.6 percent.

Two-thirds of the respondents, 67 percent, think this is not a good time to find a job in the U.S. Gallup says it findings show that high-income consumers are optimistic, lower and middle-income consumers effected by higher prices and lower wages are not necessarily that way, so they found in the survey.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, we're going to have more on the Iraq prison abuse scandal and how it is playing out politically. Will Defense Secretary Rumsfeld be forced to resign? We're going to talk to Jeff Greenfield about that just ahead.

HEMMER: Also in a moment, Kobe Bryant gets ready to offer a plea in a sexual assault case. Live to Eagle, Colorado, in a moment.

O'BRIEN: And did the "Survivor" finale offer any surprises? Our "90-Second Pop" panel weighs in on that.

Stay with us, everybody. We're back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Kobe Bryant returns to court today in Colorado for the start of a three-day pretrial hearing. He is expected to plead not guilty. When he's arraigned this week in a sexual assault matter.

Alex Stone, a reporter for Denver radio station KOA, has been covering the case there in Colorado and oftentimes with us, too, live in Eagle.

Good morning to you, Alex. Is today the day when...

ALEX STONE, REPORTER, KOA: Hi, Bill. How are you?

HEMMER: I'm doing just fine. Is today the day when he enters that plea?

STONE: Well, it most likely will happen on Wednesday. We know it's going to happen. The judge has said it will happen at some point during the next three days.

Kobe Bryant will enter his plea. We expect from court filings that it will be a not guilty plea. It will be very quick. He'll stand up and say something to the effect of not guilty, your honor, and that will be it. But cameras will be in the courtroom most likely Wednesday afternoon, is what we're hearing now, but there is a lot of other issues to get done first.

HEMMER: Issues like what? Three days of hearings, they have to cover a lot of stuff out there.

STONE: Yes, they do. And they're going to need a lot more of these hearings because they have so many issues to get done.

Some of the issues they want to finish up. And it feels like they've been talking about this forever. One is the rape shield law in Colorado, the alleged victim's sexual history. Will it be allowed in trial, will the jury ever hear that information?

Also, certain evidence in the case. One of Kobe Bryant's shirts with the accuser's blood on it, will that be allowed in? Then they hope to progress into issues that are really trial issues that will deal with jury selection and jury questionnaires and how long the attorneys will be able to question potential jurors before they are jurors. And all of that likely will come up during this hearing during these three days.

HEMMER: It's my understanding, Alex, once the plea is entered, though, the clock starts running. About six months in which the defendant is entitled to a trial to begin once that plea is entered?

STONE: Yes, Bill. It's a very symbolic date in Colorado in rape cases because of the speedy trial law in Colorado. Once Kobe Bryant enters his guilty or not guilty plea this week, let's say it happens Wednesday, from that date, a six-month clock starts ticking in Colorado that, unless Bryant waives his right to a speedy trial, that means that the trial phase of this case has to get under way within those six months.

During the last hearing in open court, all the attorneys said they would be ready for a trial in late August or early September. That obviously has to fit in with the court's calendar and with the judge's calendar. But we're starting for the first time to get an idea of when this could go to trial, and possibly late August, early September, if that works with the judge.

HEMMER: And there will be cameras allowed in that courtroom when the arraignment plea is entered. We'll see if that portends anything down the road for that trial.

Thanks, Alex. Alex Stone, KOA Radio there in Eagle, Colorado. Nice to see you.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: Former first lady Nancy Reagan made an emotional appeal to get politics out of stem cell research. Mrs. Reagan made the statement at a fundraising dinner on Saturday night in Beverly Hills. CNN's Larry King and Michael J. Fox appeared on stage with Mrs. Reagan. She insists that stem cell research could help to cure many devastating diseases, like Alzheimer's, the disease that afflicts her husband.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY REAGAN, FORMER FIRST LADY: Ronald's long journey has finally taken him to a distant place where I can no longer reach him. We can't share the wonderful memories of our 52 years together, and I think that's probably the hardest part. And because of this, I'm determined to do what I can to save other families from this pain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: This is the last picture President Reagan since his Alzheimer's has progressed. It was taken on his birthday back in 2000. Mrs. Reagan is one of the first conservative public figures to go against President Bush's restrictions on stem cell research.

Bill?

HEMMER: About 22 minutes now past the hour. About an hour away, the President is at the Pentagon today, meeting with the defense secretary. Scheduled prior to the abuse scandal breaking last week. Expected to be topic number one today, though.

Also, U.S. forces cracking down in Baghdad, but a radical leader says a second phase of resistance has now begun.

Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: And Jack is back with the Question of the Day.

CAFFERTY: Thank you, ma'am.

The Roman Catholic Church adamantly opposes abortion. Democrats have historically supported a woman's right to choose to have a legal abortion. Here's the dilemma: John Kerry is a Catholic and a Democrat, and on top of that he would like to be the President. With abortion as a major litmus test in some places for Catholic Democrats, there are actually bishops who are going so far as to refuse communion to Catholic politicians who support abortion rights.

So the question is, should John Kerry be able to support abortion rights and still receive communion in the Catholic Church?

Robert in West Palm Beach, Florida, "John Kerry should be free to advocate and/or oppose whatever political position he wishes without the fascist mullahs of the Vatican Gestapo sticking their dogmatic ideology into our election."

Ooh. O'BRIEN: Wow.

CAFFERTY: Sandra in Vancouver, British Columbia: "I'm not a Catholic, but I fully support their right to choose who may receive a sacrament in their church. Not everyone considers abortion a political issue. For many, it's a deeply spiritual issue. In the end, I agree, it's god we're accountable to. But on Earth, if you call yourself a Catholic, then be a Catholic."

And Sherry in Kyoto, Japan writes, "There is a difference between supporting abortion and supporting the right to choose an abortion. A Catholic may not choose to have an abortion herself or support one, but it does not follow that she must make that choice for others. Mr. Kerry is supporting an individual's right to choose based on that individual's situation and values."

O'BRIEN: Very thoughtful e-mails this morning.

CAFFERTY: A very bright group that watches this program.

O'BRIEN: As always. All right, Jack.

CAFFERTY: I only understand a portion of the letters. Some of them are far beyond me.

O'BRIEN: I'm glad you read them out loud. Thank you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, love and money. As the latest edition of "Survivor" comes to a close, that, and the weekend at the movies, all with our "90-Second Pop" panelists just ahead.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody; 9:30 in New York.

With new photographs coming to light every few days, how serious is the political fallout in the Iraq prison abuse scandal? Jeff Greenfield stops by in a moment to find out how damaging this could be for Secretary Rumsfeld, perhaps the President. We'll get to Jeff in a moment.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, Dr. Sanjay Guppy is back. It is one of the greatest killers among men. Well, now doctors may know at last the best treatment for prostate cancer. We're going to talk to Sanjay about that.

HEMMER: You got it. Top stories here at the half-hour.

From Iraq, coalition forces stepping up operations against the radical Shiite cleric, Muqtada al-Sadder. Soldiers destroyed al- Sadr's headquarters in Baghdad overnight. Dozens of insurgents have been killed in a series of clashes over the past few days with U.S. soldiers.

Also, U.S. Marines and a new Iraqi security corps together now patrolling the streets of Fallujah. Military officials say the corps may have better luck in getting the insurgents to put down their arms.

The U.S. Army has scheduled the first court-martial proceedings for a soldier. This in connection with the Iraq prison abuse. Jeremy Sivits, a specialist, 24 years old, from Pennsylvania, he will face a court-martial set now in Baghdad for the 19th of May. A coalition spokesman says it will not be televised.

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry launching a focus on healthcare on the campaign trail. He's releasing a campaign staff study that argues health insurance premiums are up more than $2,700 over the past four years. Kerry's camp says there is four times the growth in income. He's expected to deliver a speech in Pennsylvania today.

Broadway giving a nod to its best with "Wicked" leading the way. The whimsical tale about the folks who live along the yellow brick road picking up 10 Tony award nominations.

Also, Hugh Jackman, who will be the host of the Tony Awards ceremony, is also being considered for outstanding actor in a musical. He stars in "The Boy from Oz." The awards ceremony set for the 6th of June. The Tonys came out about an hour ago here in New York.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PFC Lynndie England is one of the soldiers seen in those photos from the Abu Ghraib prison. She is the one holding in this photograph a leash attached to a naked prisoner. England has been charged in connection with the alleged abuses.

Earlier, we spoke with the military attorneys who are representing Private England. And I asked them how Private England explains what is seen in these photos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those photos, many of the photos that you see involving our client, are staged. They're psychological operation photos. Those were instructed, and the ones that weren't specifically instructed were inferred by the civilian intelligent people, who essentially took control.

O'BRIEN: I'm confused, Mr McGuire (ph). Maybe you can explain. They were staged? What do you mean by that? That is not a naked Iraqi prisoner who is being held by the neck by a leash by your client?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what they're saying is these were staged so that other prisoners could be shown these pictures, so that they could say, look what happens if you don't work with us, if you don't give us the information that we want you provide to us. You'll have this American woman in charge of you doing these things. So what was very effective with these photos was they could show these to other prisoners and they received information and intelligence that then helped the military.

O'BRIEN: Why is that staging when, in fact, there is an American woman, military person, holding the man by the neck by a leash? I mean, that's not staging. That is actually a photo of what was happening, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. What you are seeing is a photograph of a person who is placed on the floor, something placed around his neck. We don't know what it is. And that leash being handed to our client and saying, "Stand there while we take this picture."

That's staged. That is not a picture of our client abusing a prisoner in any way.

O'BRIEN: Is that...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In addition -- in addition, we're not sure -- I mean, we've been asked before, was she just following orders. It is our position at this point, while we are looking for discovery, that she had no lawful order to follow because of the interference of the civilian authorities in the military chain of command.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Some members of Congress this week will look in private at more pictures of possible prisoner abuse. The scandal was, of course, a hot topic on the weekend's political talk shows. And some lawmakers used appearances to respond to Saturday's statement from Vice President Dick Cheney, in which he said Defense Secretary Rumsfeld should be allowed to, "do his job." One rebuke came from a political ally.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Ssecretary Rumsfeld's resignation may happen, it may not. That's not the focus.

And as to the White House, please don't say things like, "You should get off his back." Nobody is on his back. We have an independent duty to look at this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Looking at us for a moment, the politics of all this is senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield.

Good morning to you. Nice to see you.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Hi.

O'BRIEN: Key question -- I mean, you expect the Democrats certainly to come down hard. Not a big shock that the Democrats are saying he should resign he should give up his post. But you say the real question is what happens with the guys on his own side.

GREENFIELD: Yes, we talked about this just Friday, the "your own man says so" rule. And you're quite right. I mean, Democrats who long opposed the war, even reaction from long skeptical Republicans, like Nebraska senator, Chuck Hagel, that could be dismissed by the White House.

But apart from Lindsey Graham, who you just saw, yesterday's Washington Post contained some genuinely stunning comments, and not about the prisoner story, but about U.S. prospects in Iraq from those within the armed forces. I mean, consider this quote from The Post: "Army Major General Charles H. Swannack Jr., the commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, who spent much of the year in western Iraq, said he believes at the tactical level at which fighting occurs the U.S. military is still winning. But when asked whether he believed the United States is losing, he said, 'Strategically, we are.'"

And there were many other on-the-record comments in that story by generals, consultants on that. In addition, you've already quoted this, the editorial that appeared in today's Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps Times that sold on military bases worldwide calling for the ouster of Rumsfeld and of Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff.

We saw that quote just a few minutes ago, that "General Myers and Rumsfeld and their staffs failed to recognize the impact the scandal would not only have in the U.S., but around the world. This was not a failure of local command leadership, but a failure that ran straight to the top. Accountability is essential, even if that means relieving top leaders from duty in time of war."

Now, the point about this, "your own man says so," these are not partisan political comments, they're not coming from doves, they're not coming from the left. They're coming from people who should be the president's natural allies, and I believe they pose a major political problem for the president.

O'BRIEN: Compounded because President Bush's campaign slogan is steady leadership in a time of change.

GREENFIELD: Yes.

O'BRIEN: So that must certainly make the problem, to some degree, even worse.

GREENFIELD: That's exactly it. The polls will show for months that Bush has a huge advantage over John Kerry in the issues of national security, the war on terror. But in recent days, Americans appear to have turned against the war.

They're giving Bush, as you see, sharply lower numbers on this score. Fifty-five percent disapprove of his handling.

Now, there's a kind of irony here, Soledad, because the economic numbers last week were terrific, as you've said. Huge job gains, much higher than predicted, suggesting that John Kerry might have what he thought was his big issue, the economy, taken away from him. And that news was all be obliterated by the Iraq stories. So it means at least potentially an opening for Kerry if he can offer a plausible case for his national security notion.

O'BRIEN: But then let's talk about Ralph Nader. Because, of course, we spent weeks not talking about Ralph Nader at all. And to some degree, all of this brings him back into the picture.

GREENFIELD: In an odd way, it is. And I want to give props to Carlos Watson, our CNN colleagues, who I think first raised this notion.

I mean, Nader's entire public life is domestic issues, corporate abuse, economic privilege. He's also calling for withdrawal from Iraq. While John Kerry has said that he basically agrees with Bush that we have to stay there, we can't leave a failed state.

So here's the possibility. If antiwar sentiment is substantial in November, some on the left side of the spectrum who have been mulling over, can we vote for Nader or not, might be pulled over to vote for him. And in a half a dozen states, even a few percentage points for Ralph Nader would be the difference between Kerry and Bush carrying it.

Now, I'm not predicting this, because, A, I don't do predictions, and, B, I think Nader's support in the fall is going to fall. But it's at least conceivable that the worst numbers for Bush on Iraq could wind up actually hurting John Kerry in a couple of key states.

O'BRIEN: The president has said he fully supports his defense secretary. Do you suspect, though, if the drumbeat continues, he'll be forced to resign?

GREENFIELD: I take Rumsfeld at his word on this, that he said, if I think I'm a political liability to the president, he won't have to ask me to resign. And there is one potential benefit. If Rumsfeld resigns, it can take some focus off those quotes we talked about a few minutes ago, what is going on in Iraq, were the premises of the administration sound or false?

O'BRIEN: Think it's going to happen?

GREENFIELD: I won't tell you.

O'BRIEN: You never give me predictions, even when I try to trick you into it.

GREENFIELD: No chance.

O'BRIEN: All right. Jeff Greenfield, as always, thanks.

Bill?

HEMMER: About 20 before the hour. Gas prices ticking even higher. Warner Music lowering prices, music to the ears of CD buyers and Andy Serwer's two children at home.

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Yes.

HEMMER: "Minding Your Business" here.

Good morning to you.

SERWER: Good morning to you. Let's check on the Dow first.

We've been slipping here this morning. Higher interest rates and higher oil prices to blame here. Let's check it out.

Dow is down, what's that, 95 points? And we are very much in jeopardy of falling below 10,000 this morning or this afternoon. We'll be checking that all day, of course.

What's moving? CitiGroup is moving. They're just taking an after-tax charge of $4.95 billion and settling the WorldCom case, including a $2.65 billion payout to WorldCom shareholders. That is making CitiGroup down $1.22 to 45 and change.

Gas prices still on the move now, $1.89 nationally. We could be seeing some relief, though, Bill, because the Saudi oil minister is saying they need to increase output over the next couple of weeks.

HEMMER: And the word on music, lower in prices on CDs huh? How much?

SERWER: Yes. We saw Universal try this a couple of weeks ago and it didn't work because the stores took the difference. Right now, though, Warner Music saying they're going to be slashing CD prices. I mean slashing.

We're talking about going down to $9.98 each from $18.98. This is the label that has Madonna, Missy Elliott, Prince, the Doo-Doo Brothers (ph), as my history teacher used to call them. That goes all the way back. That shows how old that group is. James Taylor and more. We'll have to see whether it works.

Some other entertainment and media news as well. News Corp saying it is going to roll out that long-awaited additional channel they've been talking about, the news network -- a new news network, I should say.

Are you ready for more Murdoch, Bill? OK. It's either going to be entertainment, business or sports, they're saying.

One thing is for sure, Bill. It's going to be fair and balanced. Whatever the new network is, it's going to be fair and balanced.

HEMMER: The rumors are a new business channel, right?

SERWER: That's right. Yes, we...

HEMMER: You go up against NBC and CNNFN?

SERWER: Business is very important. We really need to have more of that, I think.

And finally here, let's talk a little bit about Michael Eisner. Of course, we've been following the story about the controversy over Michael Moore's new film. Disney choosing not to distribute it.

Finally, Michael Eisner responds by a letter in The New York Times this morning. You might want to check it out, saying, "We didn't censor Michael Moore's movie." Saying, The New York Times doesn't submit all the articles it gets submitted to it.

Well, perhaps. It is probably correct to point out, though, that movie studios scrap movies all the time.

HEMMER: Very true.

SERWER: They're shown movies that they're doing deals and they say, we can't run this, put it in the can.

HEMMER: Well, Jack was calling for a response from Eisner last week. And he did not listen.

SERWER: He finally heard Jack.

HEMMER: That he did. Thank you, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

HEMMER: Soledad?

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, it is the second leading cancer among men. Now there is proof that one prostate cancer treatment allows survivors a better quality of life. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to join us to explain.

And also, last night, the big winner on "Survivor" walked away with more than just a million bucks. That's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: I love this song. I really do.

Welcome back. It makes you want to run on the treadmill for a minute, and then get back in bed.

Welcome back, everybody. Time, once again, for "90-Second Pop." Here to discuss this morning, humorist Andy Borowitz. Also, New York Magazine contributing editor, Sarah Bernard. And Toure, contributing editor for Rolling Stone.

Good morning to all of you. Let's see, where should we begin this morning? Let's start with the all-star "Survivor" series. A twist at the end? Or it was kind of -- honestly, I thought it was kind of cheesy.

ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: It wouldn't be "Survivor" if it wasn't cheesy. I though it was kind of an exciting ending. Amber, of course, won the million dollars.

O'BRIEN: And more importantly, she won the guy. BOROWITZ: She got the man. That was very complicated. Boston Rob lost, which it doesn't surprise me really, because he had the Boston Red Sox cap, and those guys always lose.

(CROSSTALK)

SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: But don't you think...

BOROWITZ: So that was a tip-off. So then they got married and Amber...

O'BRIEN: Engaged.

BERNARD: That will be another show.

BOROWITZ: It will be the first "Survivor" marriage. Now, Amber gets a million dollars, Boston Rob gets to marry Amber. So also sort of gets the million dollars. But I think that was his evil plan all along.

O'BRIEN: Where is she from? (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

Let's turn and talk to the movies. "Van Helsing," wow. Look at these numbers. Something like $50 million for "Van Helsing?" That's a really strong opening.

BERNARD: I think this proves that no one really reads movie reviews. Why do we write them? Because it didn't matter at all. Everyone slammed this movie, and it was absolutely the run-away hit.

O'BRIEN: But then "New York Minute," which has the Olson twins, Mary Kate and Ashley, that didn't do very -- what, it brought it $6 million? I thought that would be a run-away.

TOURE, ROLLING STONE: And girl movies have been popping the last few weeks.

O'BRIEN: And the two of them...

TOURE: "Thirteen Going on Thirty" was hot. Last week, "Mean Girls" was hot.

O'BRIEN: What happened? I'm shocked.

BERNARD: I think they split it. There were three options. So it was kind of -- some people still saw "Mean Girls," which was really in the top three, and then "New York Minute" was out of the top three.

BOROWITZ: You know, as an Olson twins fan also, I stayed at home this week and just watched my old video of "Brother for Sale."

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: J.Lo wearing Mark Anthony's ring.

BERNARD: Does she know that you don't have to get married? You don't have to get married.

O'BRIEN: Not like this.

BERNARD: You can have dates and you can have a boyfriend. You can have a kid. You don't have to.

O'BRIEN: Here is my advice to J.Lo: take a break from men.

BERNARD: There you go.

O'BRIEN: You know what/ Be your own woman, discover yourself. Right? Sarah, don't you think?

BERNARD: I agree.

TOURE: That break lasted 10 minutes and now it's time...

(CROSSTALK)

BOROWITZ: We've been giving J.Lo great advice like that for months, and she's not listening.

BERNARD: She's not listening!

O'BRIEN: What is it about that? Com on, J.Lo. We've got good advice for you.

All right, you guys, as always, Andy and Sarah and Toure, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Let's go back to Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad. Thanks.

Twelve minutes before the hour. In a moment, a breakthrough treatment offering hope for the second leading cancer among men. Sanjay has details right after a break here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Now, it's the second leading cancer among men. We're talking about prostate cancer. There's a new study that now suggests one type of treatment is much better for patients in the long run. And Sanjay is here to tell us why.

Good morning.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

Yes, better, perhaps, in some ways -- 230,000 new cases of prostate cancer, those are the numbers. Pretty startling. So no surprise then that there are lots of different options for men trying to battle prostate cancer. Controversial to some extent.

A couple of the options involve surgery versus something known as bracci (ph) therapy. That's where you're actually implanting little radioactive beads into the prostate to try and fend off the cancer that way.

The questions that the researchers at Mount Sinai School of Medicine were asking as they analyzed 255 people, what were the side effects of one versus the other longer term. And here is what they found.

Several different side effects that they're concerned about -- people are concerned about when talking about prostate surgery versus the bracci (ph) therapy. First of all, potency maintenance. Seventy percent in the radioactive seed implantation, versus 30 to 50 percent. Urinary incontinence also a big concern after any kind of prostate surgery.

Look at the numbers. One percent, versus 10 percent. This is in about a four-year study. Also, rectal bleeding also a concern, sometimes long term, even, .4 percent versus 10 percent.

Bill, these are interesting numbers because, again, these side effects, men are living longer and longer with prostate cancer. Controlling the side effects now becomes the bigger concern. See bracci (ph) therapy, the numbers there, Bill.

HEMMER: If the bracci (ph) therapy is so effective then, is it effective for everyone? Why doesn't everyone just go to this form of treatment?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, that's an excellent question, because what you're talking about, if you have these low side effect profile, could you also have better overall treatment rate, cure rate in terms of the prostate cancer? And I think what most doctors will tell you is that the surgery is still going to be the gold standard for getting rid of the prostate cancer, for curing yourself of prostate cancer.

But every individual is going to be a little different. For example, if you're 50 years old and you develop prostate cancer, you may opt for the surgery. But if you're 70 years old, you may opt for the bracci (ph) therapy instead. It's going to be less invasive, it may offer you the same overall outcome for the rest of your life -- Bill.

HEMMER: Thanks, Sanjay, for that.

And off of a serious topic like that, I just want to let you know, five days and counting, Sanjay.

GUPTA: That's right.

O'BRIEN: I was going to say, he looks good for a guy who's getting married on Saturday.

HEMMER: Going to the altar.

O'BRIEN: You don't look nervous at all, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Cool as a cucumber.

O'BRIEN: We'll check in with you on Friday.

Coming up this morning on CNN, as a prison abuse storm continues to swirl in Washington, new violence in Baghdad as U.S. forces go after the militia of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. An update from the Iraqi capital up in the next hour with Daryn Kagan. That's on "CNN LIVE TODAY."

AMERICAN MORNING is back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Listen, make it a great Monday. Thanks for being with us. For Andy and Soledad and Jack -- Andy is going to go down and put his resume into the new business channel.

SERWER: Not yet.

HEMMER: No, you're not going anywhere.

CAFFERTY: Here is the thought: we have that final program called "IN THE MONEY."

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: It's only Monday. You're already teasing (ph) "IN THE MONEY?"

CAFFERTY: We're not looking for a home right now, but things to keep in the back of your mind.

(CROSSTALK)

HEMMER: We will.

Let's get to Daryn Kagan now at the CNN Center.


Aired May 10, 2004 - 9:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Can the secretary of defense survive the Iraq prison abuse scandal? This morning, the President delivers a message to the Pentagon.
Kobe Bryant expected to speak this week in court words no one will be surprised to hear.

And an issue that could determine the presidential election. Do Americans still believe the economy is on the skids? That's ahead on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody -- 9:01 here in New York. Soledad is back with us this week after some rest last week.

O'BRIEN: I'm already worn out.

HEMMER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: It's like two hours and one minute in.

HEMMER: You look rested.

O'BRIEN: I need to go on vacation.

HEMMER: In a few moments -- take us with you. In a few moments, Republican Senator Joan Cornyn, from Texas, asking him about the Iraq abuse scandal, whether or not he thinks Secretary Rumsfeld should step aside. I'll also get his reaction from the newest photos that were made public over the weekend.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, something a little bit different. A rare and risky operation that gave a team of veterinarians a real test, removing a lung from a 400-pound gorilla. We're going to tell you how that operation turned out.

HEMMER: All right. To our own 400-pound gorilla, Jack Cafferty.

O'BRIEN: That was good. Come on.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Love that. I was just thinking, you want to make sure the anaesthetic has taken hold before you start that operation. O'BRIEN: Yes.

HEMMER: I bet you do.

CAFFERTY: Make sure he's out.

Should John Kerry be given communion by the Catholic Church despite the fact that he advocates abortion rights for women? It's becoming an issue in some places. Some bishops threatening to withhold the sacrament because of his beliefs on that issue. We're interested in what you think -- AM@CNN.com.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to our stop stories this morning.

In Iraq, coalition forces stepping up operations against radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadder. Soldiers destroyed al-Sadr's headquarters in Baghdad overnight. Some 19 insurgents were killed in a series of clashes with U.S. soldiers.

And U.S. Marines and a new Iraqi security corps are together patrolling streets in Fallujah. Military officials say the corps may have better luck persuading insurgents to disarm.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair has apologized for any abuses committed by Iraqi prisoners by British soldiers in Iraq. Speaking to French television yesterday, Blair said those responsible for any mistreatments would be punished. The Ministry of Defense says 33 cases of possible abuse are now under investigation. The British defense secretary is expected to make a statement on that issue today.

Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has cancelled an upcoming visit to the U.S. The prime minister was scheduled to meet with a pro-Israel lobbying group in Washington, D.C., next week. The cancellation comes as Sharon steps up work on a new plan to pull out from Gaza. His original proposal was rejected by his Likud Party earlier this month.

Another three-day hearing in NBA star Kobe Bryant's court case taking place in Eagle, Colorado. It begins today. Bryant is expected to plead not guilty to one charge of sexual assault. Lawyers will discuss whether the accuser's sexual history will be admissible in court.

And look at these pictures. Residents in Minnesota cleaning up after some wild storms rumbled through parts of that state. The severe weather spawned tornadoes and funnel clouds. Winds of over 70 miles an hour uprooted trees in some areas, leaving thousands of folks there without power. Fortunately, though, in spite of the pictures, there were no reports of any serious injuries, which, of course, we like to say.

HEMMER: No question. Good news there.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: We now know the date for the first court-martial stemming from the Iraqi abuse scandal. Specialist Jeremy Sivits will be tried May 19 in Baghdad. A charge of mistreating detainees. President Bush, meanwhile, going to the Pentagon today for a briefing that was scheduled before the current scandal exploded. Pentagon Barbara Starr there this morning with us.

Good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

Well, it was scheduled before this latest prisoner abuse scandal erupted, but this meeting, likely topic number one, will be the detainee abuse story. President Bush expected to get an hour-long briefing here at the Pentagon. He will then come out and talk to cameras, expected to make a vigorous statement about Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and his support for the defense secretary.

But as you say, in the meantime, the military is moving ahead with the criminal prosecution of some of these soldiers, trying to demonstrate that they are ahead of it and are proceeding. Specialist Jeremy Sivits will go on trial in Baghdad May 19. He is accused of maltreatment of prisoners, conspiracy to maltreat prisoners, and dereliction of duty for failing to protect prisoners. The first of several soldiers expected to go to trial.

And sources say that trial, that court-martial proceeding in Baghdad will be open to news media coverage, as many court-martial proceedings are. But in this one in particular, they want to demonstrate U.S. military justice to the Arab world. So expect to see plenty of news coverage -- Bill.

HEMMER: Barbara, on the topic of more evidence, more photos, possibly a videotape, how much concern is there today at the Pentagon about that end of the story?

STARR: There is a great deal of concern. Now, first, they do know there are more pictures. Top officials have more pictures in their possession. That is why there is an agreement to show some of these pictures in a classified environment to Capitol Hill, senators and congressmen, so they can see them and not be surprised by them if they come out in the news media.

But the deeper concern is there may be pictures, there may be videotapes out there that no one has seen yet. And those could emerge. And one of the reasons there is so much concern about this, very respected human rights organizations, for example, the International Committee of the Red Cross, have now made public that they have been worried about abuse for months.

The ICRC put out a report in February, and officials over the weekend confirmed that in that report, they told the United States that what was going on in some U.S. prisons in Iraq was, "tantamount to torture." That from the ICRC. One ICRC official saying, "What we're dealing with here is a broader pattern and system as opposed to individual acts." So a lot of worry that there may be pictures showing just that -- Bill. HEMMER: Barbara Starr from the Pentagon.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: An editorial today in four newspapers, the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps Times, is a call for someone, specifically Defense Secretary Rumsfeld and joint chiefs chairman, General Richard Myers, to take some responsibility for the scandal.

It says, in part, this: "On the battlefield, Myers and Rumsfeld errors would be killed a lack of situational awareness, a failure that amounts to professional negligence. This was not just a failure of leadership at the local command level. This was a failure that ran straight to the top. Accountability here is essential, even if that means relieving top leaders from duty in a time of war."

Here with reaction to that and the whole situation, is Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn. He's in Washington, D.C. for us this morning.

Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for being with us.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Why do you think Secretary Rumsfeld should keep his job?

CORNYN: Well, I think that Secretary Rumsfeld has done what he should, and that is acknowledge his failure to communicate both with the commander in chief and with Congress about this. But there is no question also that the Department of Defense took these allegations very seriously when they first announced in a press release on January 16 that they were beginning an investigation, which has now led up to seven criminal indictments and now the first court-martial here later this month.

O'BRIEN: You say took the allegations seriously, and yet people who would disagree with you would say that, in fact, the secretary wasn't really aware of them until mid January, that in spite of these allegations of abuse, he never pressed to have all of the photos shown to him, that, in fact, he neglected to mention it to the President of the United States, who had to find out about it when he watched a TV show. And, in fact, when he was asked in his testimony if he read the report, he pointed to the stack of papers in the report and said, well, you know, essentially, look at it, it's two feet high. I read the executive summary.

Don't those things essentially define a failure in leadership?

CORNYN: Well, I think if there is a failure -- and clearly there is -- it's a failure of communication. It's not a failure of prosecute or take these matters very seriously.

That happened from the very beginning. And, in fact, this, in some ways, is old news. It happened last January, when the first press conference was held announcing the investigation, and then in March, when the first criminal indictments came out. But clearly, what has galvanized, what has riveted the world's attention on this or these photographs, which are, indeed, very troubling, and we've got to get to the bottom of it.

O'BRIEN: You say it's old news. So then are you essentially saying that the secretary and others did not really understand the impact, the effect that these photos would have, not only here in the United States, but, of course, around the world?

CORNYN: Well, I think, yes, there is a difference between the written word, which we had seen before, reports of this investigation, and then seeing this -- these photographs that are part of the evidence that are being -- was being accumulated in a criminal investigation leading up to a prosecution, the first of which will occur here later this month. But I would say that rather than resign, I think Secretary Rumsfeld, indeed, has a duty to serve at this critical time in our work in Iraq.

It would be, I think, a very negative thing for the secretary to resign at this time, especially when it does appear that the people who were involved in this were limited to perhaps 15 or 20, at most. At least that's what it looks like at this time. And it was not about an official policy, but, in fact, now, we're seeing the criminal justice system work its way. And I think it's important to show the world, including the Arab world, that we do believe in justice and do believe that those who are guilty should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

O'BRIEN: I want to play a short clip of what Chuck Haggle had to say. He's a Republican, as you well know. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I think they have made major mistakes. And we will see how far this goes and where it goes. But, yes, I think it's still in question whether Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld and, quite frankly, General Myers, can command the respect and the trust and the confidence of the military and the American people to lead this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: For an administration that prides itself on steady leadership, who do you think eventually needs to take the blame here?

CORNYN: Well, I think, you know, it remains to be seen. Obviously, all we could do is judge what we know now. And I was a member -- I am a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, heard the secretary of defense apologize for his failure to communicate this matter to the President and also to the Congress. We don't know where it will all lead, but what we do know, that in the public court- martial trial that's going to occur later this month, this is going to be open to the entire world.

This is part of the important lesson. I think we need to demonstrate to the world that we believe in justice, and we believe that people who are guilty should be held accountable. And that goes to the top, if they are guilty. But right now, there is no evidence that indicates this went beyond a handful of soldiers who were improperly trained and improperly supervised and committed some acts that we all find repulsive.

O'BRIEN: Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, joining us this morning. Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for your time.

CORNYN: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: Public confidence in the economy is at its lowest point of the year, we're told, according to a new Gallup poll just out today. Fifty-one percent of those surveyed think the economy is getting worse. The poll was taken before the government released figures on Friday showing a surge in hiring and a drop in the unemployment rate down to 5.6 percent.

Two-thirds of the respondents, 67 percent, think this is not a good time to find a job in the U.S. Gallup says it findings show that high-income consumers are optimistic, lower and middle-income consumers effected by higher prices and lower wages are not necessarily that way, so they found in the survey.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, we're going to have more on the Iraq prison abuse scandal and how it is playing out politically. Will Defense Secretary Rumsfeld be forced to resign? We're going to talk to Jeff Greenfield about that just ahead.

HEMMER: Also in a moment, Kobe Bryant gets ready to offer a plea in a sexual assault case. Live to Eagle, Colorado, in a moment.

O'BRIEN: And did the "Survivor" finale offer any surprises? Our "90-Second Pop" panel weighs in on that.

Stay with us, everybody. We're back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Kobe Bryant returns to court today in Colorado for the start of a three-day pretrial hearing. He is expected to plead not guilty. When he's arraigned this week in a sexual assault matter.

Alex Stone, a reporter for Denver radio station KOA, has been covering the case there in Colorado and oftentimes with us, too, live in Eagle.

Good morning to you, Alex. Is today the day when...

ALEX STONE, REPORTER, KOA: Hi, Bill. How are you?

HEMMER: I'm doing just fine. Is today the day when he enters that plea?

STONE: Well, it most likely will happen on Wednesday. We know it's going to happen. The judge has said it will happen at some point during the next three days.

Kobe Bryant will enter his plea. We expect from court filings that it will be a not guilty plea. It will be very quick. He'll stand up and say something to the effect of not guilty, your honor, and that will be it. But cameras will be in the courtroom most likely Wednesday afternoon, is what we're hearing now, but there is a lot of other issues to get done first.

HEMMER: Issues like what? Three days of hearings, they have to cover a lot of stuff out there.

STONE: Yes, they do. And they're going to need a lot more of these hearings because they have so many issues to get done.

Some of the issues they want to finish up. And it feels like they've been talking about this forever. One is the rape shield law in Colorado, the alleged victim's sexual history. Will it be allowed in trial, will the jury ever hear that information?

Also, certain evidence in the case. One of Kobe Bryant's shirts with the accuser's blood on it, will that be allowed in? Then they hope to progress into issues that are really trial issues that will deal with jury selection and jury questionnaires and how long the attorneys will be able to question potential jurors before they are jurors. And all of that likely will come up during this hearing during these three days.

HEMMER: It's my understanding, Alex, once the plea is entered, though, the clock starts running. About six months in which the defendant is entitled to a trial to begin once that plea is entered?

STONE: Yes, Bill. It's a very symbolic date in Colorado in rape cases because of the speedy trial law in Colorado. Once Kobe Bryant enters his guilty or not guilty plea this week, let's say it happens Wednesday, from that date, a six-month clock starts ticking in Colorado that, unless Bryant waives his right to a speedy trial, that means that the trial phase of this case has to get under way within those six months.

During the last hearing in open court, all the attorneys said they would be ready for a trial in late August or early September. That obviously has to fit in with the court's calendar and with the judge's calendar. But we're starting for the first time to get an idea of when this could go to trial, and possibly late August, early September, if that works with the judge.

HEMMER: And there will be cameras allowed in that courtroom when the arraignment plea is entered. We'll see if that portends anything down the road for that trial.

Thanks, Alex. Alex Stone, KOA Radio there in Eagle, Colorado. Nice to see you.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: Former first lady Nancy Reagan made an emotional appeal to get politics out of stem cell research. Mrs. Reagan made the statement at a fundraising dinner on Saturday night in Beverly Hills. CNN's Larry King and Michael J. Fox appeared on stage with Mrs. Reagan. She insists that stem cell research could help to cure many devastating diseases, like Alzheimer's, the disease that afflicts her husband.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY REAGAN, FORMER FIRST LADY: Ronald's long journey has finally taken him to a distant place where I can no longer reach him. We can't share the wonderful memories of our 52 years together, and I think that's probably the hardest part. And because of this, I'm determined to do what I can to save other families from this pain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: This is the last picture President Reagan since his Alzheimer's has progressed. It was taken on his birthday back in 2000. Mrs. Reagan is one of the first conservative public figures to go against President Bush's restrictions on stem cell research.

Bill?

HEMMER: About 22 minutes now past the hour. About an hour away, the President is at the Pentagon today, meeting with the defense secretary. Scheduled prior to the abuse scandal breaking last week. Expected to be topic number one today, though.

Also, U.S. forces cracking down in Baghdad, but a radical leader says a second phase of resistance has now begun.

Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: And Jack is back with the Question of the Day.

CAFFERTY: Thank you, ma'am.

The Roman Catholic Church adamantly opposes abortion. Democrats have historically supported a woman's right to choose to have a legal abortion. Here's the dilemma: John Kerry is a Catholic and a Democrat, and on top of that he would like to be the President. With abortion as a major litmus test in some places for Catholic Democrats, there are actually bishops who are going so far as to refuse communion to Catholic politicians who support abortion rights.

So the question is, should John Kerry be able to support abortion rights and still receive communion in the Catholic Church?

Robert in West Palm Beach, Florida, "John Kerry should be free to advocate and/or oppose whatever political position he wishes without the fascist mullahs of the Vatican Gestapo sticking their dogmatic ideology into our election."

Ooh. O'BRIEN: Wow.

CAFFERTY: Sandra in Vancouver, British Columbia: "I'm not a Catholic, but I fully support their right to choose who may receive a sacrament in their church. Not everyone considers abortion a political issue. For many, it's a deeply spiritual issue. In the end, I agree, it's god we're accountable to. But on Earth, if you call yourself a Catholic, then be a Catholic."

And Sherry in Kyoto, Japan writes, "There is a difference between supporting abortion and supporting the right to choose an abortion. A Catholic may not choose to have an abortion herself or support one, but it does not follow that she must make that choice for others. Mr. Kerry is supporting an individual's right to choose based on that individual's situation and values."

O'BRIEN: Very thoughtful e-mails this morning.

CAFFERTY: A very bright group that watches this program.

O'BRIEN: As always. All right, Jack.

CAFFERTY: I only understand a portion of the letters. Some of them are far beyond me.

O'BRIEN: I'm glad you read them out loud. Thank you, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Sure.

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, love and money. As the latest edition of "Survivor" comes to a close, that, and the weekend at the movies, all with our "90-Second Pop" panelists just ahead.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody; 9:30 in New York.

With new photographs coming to light every few days, how serious is the political fallout in the Iraq prison abuse scandal? Jeff Greenfield stops by in a moment to find out how damaging this could be for Secretary Rumsfeld, perhaps the President. We'll get to Jeff in a moment.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, Dr. Sanjay Guppy is back. It is one of the greatest killers among men. Well, now doctors may know at last the best treatment for prostate cancer. We're going to talk to Sanjay about that.

HEMMER: You got it. Top stories here at the half-hour.

From Iraq, coalition forces stepping up operations against the radical Shiite cleric, Muqtada al-Sadder. Soldiers destroyed al- Sadr's headquarters in Baghdad overnight. Dozens of insurgents have been killed in a series of clashes over the past few days with U.S. soldiers.

Also, U.S. Marines and a new Iraqi security corps together now patrolling the streets of Fallujah. Military officials say the corps may have better luck in getting the insurgents to put down their arms.

The U.S. Army has scheduled the first court-martial proceedings for a soldier. This in connection with the Iraq prison abuse. Jeremy Sivits, a specialist, 24 years old, from Pennsylvania, he will face a court-martial set now in Baghdad for the 19th of May. A coalition spokesman says it will not be televised.

Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry launching a focus on healthcare on the campaign trail. He's releasing a campaign staff study that argues health insurance premiums are up more than $2,700 over the past four years. Kerry's camp says there is four times the growth in income. He's expected to deliver a speech in Pennsylvania today.

Broadway giving a nod to its best with "Wicked" leading the way. The whimsical tale about the folks who live along the yellow brick road picking up 10 Tony award nominations.

Also, Hugh Jackman, who will be the host of the Tony Awards ceremony, is also being considered for outstanding actor in a musical. He stars in "The Boy from Oz." The awards ceremony set for the 6th of June. The Tonys came out about an hour ago here in New York.

(WEATHER REPORT)

PFC Lynndie England is one of the soldiers seen in those photos from the Abu Ghraib prison. She is the one holding in this photograph a leash attached to a naked prisoner. England has been charged in connection with the alleged abuses.

Earlier, we spoke with the military attorneys who are representing Private England. And I asked them how Private England explains what is seen in these photos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those photos, many of the photos that you see involving our client, are staged. They're psychological operation photos. Those were instructed, and the ones that weren't specifically instructed were inferred by the civilian intelligent people, who essentially took control.

O'BRIEN: I'm confused, Mr McGuire (ph). Maybe you can explain. They were staged? What do you mean by that? That is not a naked Iraqi prisoner who is being held by the neck by a leash by your client?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, what they're saying is these were staged so that other prisoners could be shown these pictures, so that they could say, look what happens if you don't work with us, if you don't give us the information that we want you provide to us. You'll have this American woman in charge of you doing these things. So what was very effective with these photos was they could show these to other prisoners and they received information and intelligence that then helped the military.

O'BRIEN: Why is that staging when, in fact, there is an American woman, military person, holding the man by the neck by a leash? I mean, that's not staging. That is actually a photo of what was happening, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. What you are seeing is a photograph of a person who is placed on the floor, something placed around his neck. We don't know what it is. And that leash being handed to our client and saying, "Stand there while we take this picture."

That's staged. That is not a picture of our client abusing a prisoner in any way.

O'BRIEN: Is that...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In addition -- in addition, we're not sure -- I mean, we've been asked before, was she just following orders. It is our position at this point, while we are looking for discovery, that she had no lawful order to follow because of the interference of the civilian authorities in the military chain of command.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Some members of Congress this week will look in private at more pictures of possible prisoner abuse. The scandal was, of course, a hot topic on the weekend's political talk shows. And some lawmakers used appearances to respond to Saturday's statement from Vice President Dick Cheney, in which he said Defense Secretary Rumsfeld should be allowed to, "do his job." One rebuke came from a political ally.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Ssecretary Rumsfeld's resignation may happen, it may not. That's not the focus.

And as to the White House, please don't say things like, "You should get off his back." Nobody is on his back. We have an independent duty to look at this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Looking at us for a moment, the politics of all this is senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield.

Good morning to you. Nice to see you.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST: Hi.

O'BRIEN: Key question -- I mean, you expect the Democrats certainly to come down hard. Not a big shock that the Democrats are saying he should resign he should give up his post. But you say the real question is what happens with the guys on his own side.

GREENFIELD: Yes, we talked about this just Friday, the "your own man says so" rule. And you're quite right. I mean, Democrats who long opposed the war, even reaction from long skeptical Republicans, like Nebraska senator, Chuck Hagel, that could be dismissed by the White House.

But apart from Lindsey Graham, who you just saw, yesterday's Washington Post contained some genuinely stunning comments, and not about the prisoner story, but about U.S. prospects in Iraq from those within the armed forces. I mean, consider this quote from The Post: "Army Major General Charles H. Swannack Jr., the commander of the 82nd Airborne Division, who spent much of the year in western Iraq, said he believes at the tactical level at which fighting occurs the U.S. military is still winning. But when asked whether he believed the United States is losing, he said, 'Strategically, we are.'"

And there were many other on-the-record comments in that story by generals, consultants on that. In addition, you've already quoted this, the editorial that appeared in today's Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corps Times that sold on military bases worldwide calling for the ouster of Rumsfeld and of Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff.

We saw that quote just a few minutes ago, that "General Myers and Rumsfeld and their staffs failed to recognize the impact the scandal would not only have in the U.S., but around the world. This was not a failure of local command leadership, but a failure that ran straight to the top. Accountability is essential, even if that means relieving top leaders from duty in time of war."

Now, the point about this, "your own man says so," these are not partisan political comments, they're not coming from doves, they're not coming from the left. They're coming from people who should be the president's natural allies, and I believe they pose a major political problem for the president.

O'BRIEN: Compounded because President Bush's campaign slogan is steady leadership in a time of change.

GREENFIELD: Yes.

O'BRIEN: So that must certainly make the problem, to some degree, even worse.

GREENFIELD: That's exactly it. The polls will show for months that Bush has a huge advantage over John Kerry in the issues of national security, the war on terror. But in recent days, Americans appear to have turned against the war.

They're giving Bush, as you see, sharply lower numbers on this score. Fifty-five percent disapprove of his handling.

Now, there's a kind of irony here, Soledad, because the economic numbers last week were terrific, as you've said. Huge job gains, much higher than predicted, suggesting that John Kerry might have what he thought was his big issue, the economy, taken away from him. And that news was all be obliterated by the Iraq stories. So it means at least potentially an opening for Kerry if he can offer a plausible case for his national security notion.

O'BRIEN: But then let's talk about Ralph Nader. Because, of course, we spent weeks not talking about Ralph Nader at all. And to some degree, all of this brings him back into the picture.

GREENFIELD: In an odd way, it is. And I want to give props to Carlos Watson, our CNN colleagues, who I think first raised this notion.

I mean, Nader's entire public life is domestic issues, corporate abuse, economic privilege. He's also calling for withdrawal from Iraq. While John Kerry has said that he basically agrees with Bush that we have to stay there, we can't leave a failed state.

So here's the possibility. If antiwar sentiment is substantial in November, some on the left side of the spectrum who have been mulling over, can we vote for Nader or not, might be pulled over to vote for him. And in a half a dozen states, even a few percentage points for Ralph Nader would be the difference between Kerry and Bush carrying it.

Now, I'm not predicting this, because, A, I don't do predictions, and, B, I think Nader's support in the fall is going to fall. But it's at least conceivable that the worst numbers for Bush on Iraq could wind up actually hurting John Kerry in a couple of key states.

O'BRIEN: The president has said he fully supports his defense secretary. Do you suspect, though, if the drumbeat continues, he'll be forced to resign?

GREENFIELD: I take Rumsfeld at his word on this, that he said, if I think I'm a political liability to the president, he won't have to ask me to resign. And there is one potential benefit. If Rumsfeld resigns, it can take some focus off those quotes we talked about a few minutes ago, what is going on in Iraq, were the premises of the administration sound or false?

O'BRIEN: Think it's going to happen?

GREENFIELD: I won't tell you.

O'BRIEN: You never give me predictions, even when I try to trick you into it.

GREENFIELD: No chance.

O'BRIEN: All right. Jeff Greenfield, as always, thanks.

Bill?

HEMMER: About 20 before the hour. Gas prices ticking even higher. Warner Music lowering prices, music to the ears of CD buyers and Andy Serwer's two children at home.

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Yes.

HEMMER: "Minding Your Business" here.

Good morning to you.

SERWER: Good morning to you. Let's check on the Dow first.

We've been slipping here this morning. Higher interest rates and higher oil prices to blame here. Let's check it out.

Dow is down, what's that, 95 points? And we are very much in jeopardy of falling below 10,000 this morning or this afternoon. We'll be checking that all day, of course.

What's moving? CitiGroup is moving. They're just taking an after-tax charge of $4.95 billion and settling the WorldCom case, including a $2.65 billion payout to WorldCom shareholders. That is making CitiGroup down $1.22 to 45 and change.

Gas prices still on the move now, $1.89 nationally. We could be seeing some relief, though, Bill, because the Saudi oil minister is saying they need to increase output over the next couple of weeks.

HEMMER: And the word on music, lower in prices on CDs huh? How much?

SERWER: Yes. We saw Universal try this a couple of weeks ago and it didn't work because the stores took the difference. Right now, though, Warner Music saying they're going to be slashing CD prices. I mean slashing.

We're talking about going down to $9.98 each from $18.98. This is the label that has Madonna, Missy Elliott, Prince, the Doo-Doo Brothers (ph), as my history teacher used to call them. That goes all the way back. That shows how old that group is. James Taylor and more. We'll have to see whether it works.

Some other entertainment and media news as well. News Corp saying it is going to roll out that long-awaited additional channel they've been talking about, the news network -- a new news network, I should say.

Are you ready for more Murdoch, Bill? OK. It's either going to be entertainment, business or sports, they're saying.

One thing is for sure, Bill. It's going to be fair and balanced. Whatever the new network is, it's going to be fair and balanced.

HEMMER: The rumors are a new business channel, right?

SERWER: That's right. Yes, we...

HEMMER: You go up against NBC and CNNFN?

SERWER: Business is very important. We really need to have more of that, I think.

And finally here, let's talk a little bit about Michael Eisner. Of course, we've been following the story about the controversy over Michael Moore's new film. Disney choosing not to distribute it.

Finally, Michael Eisner responds by a letter in The New York Times this morning. You might want to check it out, saying, "We didn't censor Michael Moore's movie." Saying, The New York Times doesn't submit all the articles it gets submitted to it.

Well, perhaps. It is probably correct to point out, though, that movie studios scrap movies all the time.

HEMMER: Very true.

SERWER: They're shown movies that they're doing deals and they say, we can't run this, put it in the can.

HEMMER: Well, Jack was calling for a response from Eisner last week. And he did not listen.

SERWER: He finally heard Jack.

HEMMER: That he did. Thank you, Andy.

SERWER: You're welcome.

HEMMER: Soledad?

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, it is the second leading cancer among men. Now there is proof that one prostate cancer treatment allows survivors a better quality of life. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to join us to explain.

And also, last night, the big winner on "Survivor" walked away with more than just a million bucks. That's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: I love this song. I really do.

Welcome back. It makes you want to run on the treadmill for a minute, and then get back in bed.

Welcome back, everybody. Time, once again, for "90-Second Pop." Here to discuss this morning, humorist Andy Borowitz. Also, New York Magazine contributing editor, Sarah Bernard. And Toure, contributing editor for Rolling Stone.

Good morning to all of you. Let's see, where should we begin this morning? Let's start with the all-star "Survivor" series. A twist at the end? Or it was kind of -- honestly, I thought it was kind of cheesy.

ANDY BOROWITZ, HUMORIST: It wouldn't be "Survivor" if it wasn't cheesy. I though it was kind of an exciting ending. Amber, of course, won the million dollars.

O'BRIEN: And more importantly, she won the guy. BOROWITZ: She got the man. That was very complicated. Boston Rob lost, which it doesn't surprise me really, because he had the Boston Red Sox cap, and those guys always lose.

(CROSSTALK)

SARAH BERNARD, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: But don't you think...

BOROWITZ: So that was a tip-off. So then they got married and Amber...

O'BRIEN: Engaged.

BERNARD: That will be another show.

BOROWITZ: It will be the first "Survivor" marriage. Now, Amber gets a million dollars, Boston Rob gets to marry Amber. So also sort of gets the million dollars. But I think that was his evil plan all along.

O'BRIEN: Where is she from? (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

Let's turn and talk to the movies. "Van Helsing," wow. Look at these numbers. Something like $50 million for "Van Helsing?" That's a really strong opening.

BERNARD: I think this proves that no one really reads movie reviews. Why do we write them? Because it didn't matter at all. Everyone slammed this movie, and it was absolutely the run-away hit.

O'BRIEN: But then "New York Minute," which has the Olson twins, Mary Kate and Ashley, that didn't do very -- what, it brought it $6 million? I thought that would be a run-away.

TOURE, ROLLING STONE: And girl movies have been popping the last few weeks.

O'BRIEN: And the two of them...

TOURE: "Thirteen Going on Thirty" was hot. Last week, "Mean Girls" was hot.

O'BRIEN: What happened? I'm shocked.

BERNARD: I think they split it. There were three options. So it was kind of -- some people still saw "Mean Girls," which was really in the top three, and then "New York Minute" was out of the top three.

BOROWITZ: You know, as an Olson twins fan also, I stayed at home this week and just watched my old video of "Brother for Sale."

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: J.Lo wearing Mark Anthony's ring.

BERNARD: Does she know that you don't have to get married? You don't have to get married.

O'BRIEN: Not like this.

BERNARD: You can have dates and you can have a boyfriend. You can have a kid. You don't have to.

O'BRIEN: Here is my advice to J.Lo: take a break from men.

BERNARD: There you go.

O'BRIEN: You know what/ Be your own woman, discover yourself. Right? Sarah, don't you think?

BERNARD: I agree.

TOURE: That break lasted 10 minutes and now it's time...

(CROSSTALK)

BOROWITZ: We've been giving J.Lo great advice like that for months, and she's not listening.

BERNARD: She's not listening!

O'BRIEN: What is it about that? Com on, J.Lo. We've got good advice for you.

All right, you guys, as always, Andy and Sarah and Toure, thank you very much. Appreciate it.

Let's go back to Bill.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad. Thanks.

Twelve minutes before the hour. In a moment, a breakthrough treatment offering hope for the second leading cancer among men. Sanjay has details right after a break here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Now, it's the second leading cancer among men. We're talking about prostate cancer. There's a new study that now suggests one type of treatment is much better for patients in the long run. And Sanjay is here to tell us why.

Good morning.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

Yes, better, perhaps, in some ways -- 230,000 new cases of prostate cancer, those are the numbers. Pretty startling. So no surprise then that there are lots of different options for men trying to battle prostate cancer. Controversial to some extent.

A couple of the options involve surgery versus something known as bracci (ph) therapy. That's where you're actually implanting little radioactive beads into the prostate to try and fend off the cancer that way.

The questions that the researchers at Mount Sinai School of Medicine were asking as they analyzed 255 people, what were the side effects of one versus the other longer term. And here is what they found.

Several different side effects that they're concerned about -- people are concerned about when talking about prostate surgery versus the bracci (ph) therapy. First of all, potency maintenance. Seventy percent in the radioactive seed implantation, versus 30 to 50 percent. Urinary incontinence also a big concern after any kind of prostate surgery.

Look at the numbers. One percent, versus 10 percent. This is in about a four-year study. Also, rectal bleeding also a concern, sometimes long term, even, .4 percent versus 10 percent.

Bill, these are interesting numbers because, again, these side effects, men are living longer and longer with prostate cancer. Controlling the side effects now becomes the bigger concern. See bracci (ph) therapy, the numbers there, Bill.

HEMMER: If the bracci (ph) therapy is so effective then, is it effective for everyone? Why doesn't everyone just go to this form of treatment?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, that's an excellent question, because what you're talking about, if you have these low side effect profile, could you also have better overall treatment rate, cure rate in terms of the prostate cancer? And I think what most doctors will tell you is that the surgery is still going to be the gold standard for getting rid of the prostate cancer, for curing yourself of prostate cancer.

But every individual is going to be a little different. For example, if you're 50 years old and you develop prostate cancer, you may opt for the surgery. But if you're 70 years old, you may opt for the bracci (ph) therapy instead. It's going to be less invasive, it may offer you the same overall outcome for the rest of your life -- Bill.

HEMMER: Thanks, Sanjay, for that.

And off of a serious topic like that, I just want to let you know, five days and counting, Sanjay.

GUPTA: That's right.

O'BRIEN: I was going to say, he looks good for a guy who's getting married on Saturday.

HEMMER: Going to the altar.

O'BRIEN: You don't look nervous at all, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Cool as a cucumber.

O'BRIEN: We'll check in with you on Friday.

Coming up this morning on CNN, as a prison abuse storm continues to swirl in Washington, new violence in Baghdad as U.S. forces go after the militia of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. An update from the Iraqi capital up in the next hour with Daryn Kagan. That's on "CNN LIVE TODAY."

AMERICAN MORNING is back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Listen, make it a great Monday. Thanks for being with us. For Andy and Soledad and Jack -- Andy is going to go down and put his resume into the new business channel.

SERWER: Not yet.

HEMMER: No, you're not going anywhere.

CAFFERTY: Here is the thought: we have that final program called "IN THE MONEY."

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: It's only Monday. You're already teasing (ph) "IN THE MONEY?"

CAFFERTY: We're not looking for a home right now, but things to keep in the back of your mind.

(CROSSTALK)

HEMMER: We will.

Let's get to Daryn Kagan now at the CNN Center.