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CNN Live Today
Role of Military Intelligence, What it Might Have Played
Aired May 11, 2004 - 11:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan. We'll get back to Senate Armed Services Committee testimony in just a minute. First, a look at the headlines from CNN headquarters in Atlanta.
The general who investigated abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib Prison is testifying before that committee. Major general Antonio Taguba says there was a failure of leadership, lack of training and no supervision at the prison.
Several civilian workers are unaccounted for today after insurgents attacked their convoy on the road from Jordan to Baghdad. The contractors worked for the Halliburton subsidiary of Kellogg Brown and Root. Some trucks in the 21-vehicle convoy were destroyed.
U.S. soldiers say they killed 13 Iraqi insurgents in fighting near Najaf. The U.S. is stepping up its mission in the holy city as it tries to root out members of a militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
And Israeli armored personnel carrier ran over a roadside bomb during a mission into Gaza today. Six Israeli soldiers were killed. Palestinian militants say they're holding body parts and they'll use them in negotiations with Israel. Seven Palestinians were also killed in that violence.
Here in the U.S., more severe weather possible in the west. Tornadoes dotting the skyline Monday in Colorado. At least six touched down and one twister destroyed a house and barn.
Part of the prisoner abuse investigation centers on the role of military intelligence and what it might have played. For more on that, let's bring in our military intelligence analyst Ken Robinson who is in Washington listening into these hearings along with us. Ken, good morning.
KEN ROBINSON, CNN MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Hi, Daryn.
KAGAN: We seem to see here a lot of questions and not that many answers about the distinction, first of all, about who was running the prison. And the relationship between the military police and the military intelligence officers.
ROBINSON: Well, they're making a case in General Taguba's report about a distinction of control called TaCon, tactical control, which appears to have occurred in an order somewhere, but not necessarily transmitted down to the soldiers in either the MP brigade or MI brigade in terms of their understanding.
More importantly, this seems to be centering on one issue. And that issue is who potentially influenced the military police guards to do the conduct which they did by the definition of setting the conditions.
Because there's a doctrinal relationship that exists between the military intelligence and military police where they ask the military police to observe, to observe prisoners, prior to interrogations, for maybe 24 hours to determine their condition, their moods, their activities, their sleep pattern, how argumentative they are with others, how they were captured, what was captured on them. And they get this information to design an interrogation plan.
What we saw here is classically being described as abuse and torture. So the real question is, as General Taguba alluded in his report and testimony today, is that military intelligence contractors and potentially personnel unofficially may have influenced the behavior of the military police, which is the allegation the military police that are charged have said, that they were told to soften these folks up.
So the real core is the definition of setting the conditions.
KAGAN: On the screen, we see Lieutenant General Lance Smith. He was talking about this line that was drawn. Clearly, the line was stepped over. But he's stepped up and said, if there is to be no relationship between military intelligence officers and military police, you're wrong on that. They do need to work together. The question is who set the standards of how this work was going to take place?
ROBINSON: Those standards are set in their training through the law of land warfare, Geneva Conventions and rules that are supposed to be posted and prescribed by the command. The CJTF-7 command, all the way down to General Karpinski and the MI brigade commander. And then Geneva Convention rules are supposed to be posted in language -- in the language of the prisoners and in English.
And according to the Taguba report, those were not posted on the ground, in the prison, specifically in that cell area. Another major deficiency.
KAGAN: We heard questions about Guantanamo Bay and if similar types of techniques have been used and if that was where the standard was set of how things would be handled in Iraq and Afghanistan.
ROBINSON: Let me talk retrospectively about that. CNN went to Fort Wachuka, Arizona in September 2002 and did a story called "The 9/11 Soldiers."
And as part of that process, we interviewed and talked to member of the chain of command, instructors, people who just returned from Guantanamo, because the school house was helping to train the interrogation operations, which were going on in Guantanamo. And so this whole thing called "Gitmoizing Iraq," that may be misconstrued also because as part of this process, Major General Miller had brought in the intelligence in school to teach specific classes in all the areas of the proper interrogation of prisoners of war. And that site had been investigated very carefully.
And the reference of "Gitmoizing" may refer to the that fact they had established a baseline, they had established solid policies and were wanting to do the same thing in Iraq where they found in Abu Ghaith, in particular, that that wasn't occurring.
KAGAN: All right, Ken, stand by. We'll have you listen to more of the hearing. Let's rejoin the Senate Armed Services Committee as they listen to testimony.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 11, 2004 - 11:29 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Daryn Kagan. We'll get back to Senate Armed Services Committee testimony in just a minute. First, a look at the headlines from CNN headquarters in Atlanta.
The general who investigated abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib Prison is testifying before that committee. Major general Antonio Taguba says there was a failure of leadership, lack of training and no supervision at the prison.
Several civilian workers are unaccounted for today after insurgents attacked their convoy on the road from Jordan to Baghdad. The contractors worked for the Halliburton subsidiary of Kellogg Brown and Root. Some trucks in the 21-vehicle convoy were destroyed.
U.S. soldiers say they killed 13 Iraqi insurgents in fighting near Najaf. The U.S. is stepping up its mission in the holy city as it tries to root out members of a militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr.
And Israeli armored personnel carrier ran over a roadside bomb during a mission into Gaza today. Six Israeli soldiers were killed. Palestinian militants say they're holding body parts and they'll use them in negotiations with Israel. Seven Palestinians were also killed in that violence.
Here in the U.S., more severe weather possible in the west. Tornadoes dotting the skyline Monday in Colorado. At least six touched down and one twister destroyed a house and barn.
Part of the prisoner abuse investigation centers on the role of military intelligence and what it might have played. For more on that, let's bring in our military intelligence analyst Ken Robinson who is in Washington listening into these hearings along with us. Ken, good morning.
KEN ROBINSON, CNN MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Hi, Daryn.
KAGAN: We seem to see here a lot of questions and not that many answers about the distinction, first of all, about who was running the prison. And the relationship between the military police and the military intelligence officers.
ROBINSON: Well, they're making a case in General Taguba's report about a distinction of control called TaCon, tactical control, which appears to have occurred in an order somewhere, but not necessarily transmitted down to the soldiers in either the MP brigade or MI brigade in terms of their understanding.
More importantly, this seems to be centering on one issue. And that issue is who potentially influenced the military police guards to do the conduct which they did by the definition of setting the conditions.
Because there's a doctrinal relationship that exists between the military intelligence and military police where they ask the military police to observe, to observe prisoners, prior to interrogations, for maybe 24 hours to determine their condition, their moods, their activities, their sleep pattern, how argumentative they are with others, how they were captured, what was captured on them. And they get this information to design an interrogation plan.
What we saw here is classically being described as abuse and torture. So the real question is, as General Taguba alluded in his report and testimony today, is that military intelligence contractors and potentially personnel unofficially may have influenced the behavior of the military police, which is the allegation the military police that are charged have said, that they were told to soften these folks up.
So the real core is the definition of setting the conditions.
KAGAN: On the screen, we see Lieutenant General Lance Smith. He was talking about this line that was drawn. Clearly, the line was stepped over. But he's stepped up and said, if there is to be no relationship between military intelligence officers and military police, you're wrong on that. They do need to work together. The question is who set the standards of how this work was going to take place?
ROBINSON: Those standards are set in their training through the law of land warfare, Geneva Conventions and rules that are supposed to be posted and prescribed by the command. The CJTF-7 command, all the way down to General Karpinski and the MI brigade commander. And then Geneva Convention rules are supposed to be posted in language -- in the language of the prisoners and in English.
And according to the Taguba report, those were not posted on the ground, in the prison, specifically in that cell area. Another major deficiency.
KAGAN: We heard questions about Guantanamo Bay and if similar types of techniques have been used and if that was where the standard was set of how things would be handled in Iraq and Afghanistan.
ROBINSON: Let me talk retrospectively about that. CNN went to Fort Wachuka, Arizona in September 2002 and did a story called "The 9/11 Soldiers."
And as part of that process, we interviewed and talked to member of the chain of command, instructors, people who just returned from Guantanamo, because the school house was helping to train the interrogation operations, which were going on in Guantanamo. And so this whole thing called "Gitmoizing Iraq," that may be misconstrued also because as part of this process, Major General Miller had brought in the intelligence in school to teach specific classes in all the areas of the proper interrogation of prisoners of war. And that site had been investigated very carefully.
And the reference of "Gitmoizing" may refer to the that fact they had established a baseline, they had established solid policies and were wanting to do the same thing in Iraq where they found in Abu Ghaith, in particular, that that wasn't occurring.
KAGAN: All right, Ken, stand by. We'll have you listen to more of the hearing. Let's rejoin the Senate Armed Services Committee as they listen to testimony.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
