Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Antonio Taguba to Appear Before Senate Armed Services Committee; Dispensing Junk Food at Schools; Interview With Brad Pitt

Aired May 11, 2004 - 9:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. A critical public hearing 30 minutes away in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal starts this hour on Capitol Hill.
The president with his work cut out with him. The war in Iraq now taking a serious toll on his approval rating.

Severe weather storming to the Rockies, bringing twisters on the plains this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody.

Other stories that we're following this morning: some big trouble for school vending machines. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to join us again looking at a movement to lower teenage obesity is what I'm trying to say.

Thank you for helping, Jack. Can anybody really hope that they're going to be able to beat the big companies that make all that junk food really is the big question.

HEMMER: Also this hour, my conversation with Brad Pitt, back on the big screen for the first time in three weeks. "Troy" is out this week, and a huge, sweeping epic. We'll talk about the role, the budget, and even talk a little bit about his family life at home.

Stay tuned for that.

O'BRIEN: Hi, Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Did you ask him about his haircut?

O'BRIEN: He looks good.

HEMMER: No. He grew it long for the film.

CAFFERTY: Of course he looks good. He's Brad Pitt. But I was just curious about the haircut.

Has the prisoner abuse scandal changed your view of the war in Iraq? AM@CNN.com, if you have a thought you'd like to share. Please write. HEMMER: Good deal. Thank you, Jack.

Top stories now, starting another hour.

Military officials in Iraq say U.S. troops have killed 13 fighters loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. That operation comes as hundreds of Iraqis take to the streets of Najaf today. The demonstrators calling on al-Sadr and his fighters to pack up and leave the Iraqi holy city.

More clashes between the Israelis and Palestinians in Gaza. Earlier today, an Israeli helicopter fired a missile into a car in Gaza. It's not clear if anyone was injured. The attack taking place hours after six Israeli soldiers traveled in an armored personnel carrier were killed in Gaza. Palestinian militants were shown holding pieces of that vehicle. Overnight battles in Gaza leaving at least five Palestinians dead as well, and wounding about 40 others.

The NBA star, Kobe Bryant, expected to plead not guilty in the case against him. A judge is still considering whether or not his accuser's sexual history and information about her mental well-being should be admissible in that trial. A three-day pretrial hearing continues today, day two in Eagle. It began yesterday with a surprise appearance from Kobe Bryant's accuser.

Tornadoes tearing across the state of Colorado. If you haven't seen it yet, look at the video here. Unbelievable size in these twisters blowing through Elbert County, outside of Denver. One family lost their farmhouse and a barn in that storm. They did survive.

Severe thunderstorms also producing baseball-sized hail across Colorado. A lot of open country in that part of the state, which is good news for the folks out there. Huge tornadoes.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Coming up later this hour on CNN, public testimony about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. It goes before the Senate Armed Services Committee. Among those who are testifying, U.S. Army Major General Antonio Taguba, the author of the Pentagon report that sparked the scandal.

Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins us this morning with a preview of that.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.

Well, as we await General Taguba's testimony, just about 25 minutes from now, the Pentagon and the White House are still struggling with whether to release hundreds of additional photographs of alleged detainee abuse, release them both to Congress and to the public.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): The Senate hearing will be the first public airing of the classified report by Taguba investigating the alleged abuse of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison. One key question will be, were the military police really acting under orders from military intelligence officers? That report found that between October and December 2003, there were numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses inflicted on several detainees.

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: General Taguba's investigation, as reported, paints an alarming picture of abuse and humiliation of Iraq prisoners. It has enraged people here at home and throughout the civilized world.

STARR: In Baghdad, still an effort to move forward by the general now in charge of prison operations.

MAJ. GEN. GEOFFREY MILLER, U.S. ARMY: We are moving as rapidly as we possibly can to find the truth and also to provide appropriate safeguards for the rights of those who are being investigated.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Now, Soledad, of course, not only are there photographs, but there are a number of computerized video clips. One source who has seen some of them say they also show disturbing and humiliating behavior against Iraqi detainees, some of it of a sexual nature -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Barbara, what has been the reaction at the Pentagon by officials of the Pentagon to General Taguba overall, and specifically his report as well?

STARR: Well, this becomes a very delicate question. What we are now hearing from some of our sources is there is at least a bit of a bad feeling towards General Taguba, that some uniform senior military officers feel that his report may be overwritten, over-emotional in the words of some people. But other sources tell us that's becoming a case of shooting the messenger. So clearly an issue of great controversy here in the Pentagon with the U.S. military.

O'BRIEN: No question about that. All right. Barbara Starr for us this morning. Barbara, thanks a lot.

And CNN, of course, is going to provide live coverage of Major General Antonio Taguba's testimony before the Armed Services Committee. The panel convenes around 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time, and that is really just about 22 minutes from now.

HEMMER: Well, the first court-martial stemming from the prisoner abuse scandal scheduled now for a week from tomorrow, Wednesday in Baghdad, when Specialist Jeremy Sivits will be tried. Another soldier facing charges, Specialist Megan Ambuhl, seen here in her high school photo yearbook.

Ambuhl's attorney is Harvey Volzer. He's live with us from Washington.

Good morning. Welcome here.

HARVEY VOLZER, ATTORNEY FOR MEGAN AMBUHL: Good morning.

HEMMER: I know you met with your client in Baghdad recently. How did she explain what happened there in that prison?

VOLZER: Well, she explained that they were working under the instructions of military intelligence. And my client has not been seen, nor will she be seen in any of the photographs that have been released or will be released.

Her problem was that they charged every member of the night shift at the prison with the court-martial offense. And she happened to be one of the six people there. PFC England was also charged, but she was not an MP.

HEMMER: Let me stop you there. Are you sugaring she was at the wrong place at the wrong time and is innocent of anything?

VOLZER: Well, I'm defending her and, of course, no defense counsel is going to say his client is guilty, especially not on national television.

HEMMER: We were told yesterday an attorney for Private First Class Lynndie England, we were told that those photos were staged. Is that part of your defense, or is that outside of your legal defense? Because, as you say, your client was not seen any photos.

VOLZER: Well, that may be part of their defense. It's not part of my defense.

HEMMER: You describe Specialist Ambuhl as "a very clean and wholesome girl," using your words here. Why did she not report what was happening there at the prison?

VOLZER: Well, what no one seems to focus on is that there was no one to report to. The NCOs who were in charge of her were all there when these things were occurring. The military intelligence personnel, the interrogators who were in control of the prison, all knew that this was going on.

Brigadier General Karpinski and the people under her were never at the prison. There was frankly no way of reporting to anyone.

HEMMER: When you were with your client recently, did you talk about Geneva Conventions, the laws that govern?

VOLZER: Yes. This is really hilarious because -- well, not hilarious, but they were never given any instruction on the Geneva Convention before they went over there.

HEMMER: If that's the case, does that excuse the behavior?

VOLZER: Well, it depends on what the behavior was. If you're acting under military intelligence, and they're telling you that they're getting good information from the prisoners as a result of the activities, and that this is going to mean that the war is going to be over quicker, that the Iraqi people will be freer than they've been in years, and that the American people won't have to worry about chemical weapons and nuclear weapons or attack, then you think you're doing a good thing.

HEMMER: Is that the defense you're starting to plot?

VOLZER: Sounds like it, doesn't it?

HEMMER: Yes, it certainly does. And also, what we're told, the Sunni insurgency in the triangle area really started to spark up this time last fall. So what you're going to do is, if your client is court-martialed -- is that a possibility, number one?

VOLZER: Well, it is a possibility. One of the things that happened yesterday was Article 32 investigative report on my client came down, and they've dropped half the charges -- well, they've recommended that half the charges be dropped. The only charges that are recommended to go forward are dereliction of duty and conspiracy with the other persons involving the leash incident with Lynndie England.

HEMMER: Yes. Finally, if I could here in the short time we have left, what did your client say about her state of mind, her feelings, knowing that the story is out there not just in this country, but around the world, for that matter, and quite despicable in so many cases?

VOLZER: Well, she and her parents are very upset, as you can imagine being depicted as a torturer and abuser. And it sort of flies in the face of 29 years of living and everything they think they know about their daughter. So it's been a very difficult time.

HEMMER: All right. Well, listen, keep us posted. I mean, obviously, the interest is extremely high. Harvey Volzer is the attorney for Megan Ambuhl, not seen in the photos, but, again, at the center of this controversy emanating out of Baghdad today.

Thank you, sir, for your time this morning.

VOLZER: You're welcome.

O'BRIEN: We are expecting testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee to begin at the half-hour, 9:30 Eastern Time, is when we are expecting that. We're going to of course bring that to you live from Capitol Hill.

HEMMER: Also...

O'BRIEN: I'm sorry.

HEMMER: I apologize. Junk food, is it what's lunch at school these days? Sanjay looks at that, what maybe is a disturbing trend. O'BRIEN: And pitting Brad against the mighty Trojan army. Will it bring blockbuster success? Bill's interview with Brad Pitt just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Just how big a problem is the food in the vending machines at schools? One senator says it's so bad, he wants the federal government involved. Iowa Senator Tom Harkin is holding a press conference this hour. We've got Dr. Sanjay Gupta at the CNN Center with more on the problem and also some possible solutions.

Hey, Sanjay. Good morning.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

And Senator Harkin is not alone. Certainly vending machines have been in the sights of both senators and congressmen for quite sometime now. Thirty-seven percent of the nation's youth is either overweight or obese. Significant numbers; you and I have talked about those numbers before.

Why is it? What's the problem here? Vending machines may be one of them.

Sort of interesting stuff coming out of the Center for Science and the Public Interest. First, the facts. This is based on a survey of 251 schools that had 1,400 vending machines.

They found that 70 percent of those vending machines are still stocked with sugary drinks, 14 percent diet, 12 percent water, and only five percent milk. Didn't we all used to drink milk at one point or another?

Also, as far as the snacks go, looking at the school vending machine snacks, 80 percent of them are candy, chips and sweet baked goods. Less than one percent are fruits or vegetables. Certainly no one likes to spend their extra 50 cents on a piece of broccoli, but you can see the problem here, Soledad. The choices just aren't there for a lot of the kids buying products from these vending machines in public schools.

O'BRIEN: But if the federal government gets involved, as the Iowa senator would like to see, do you think that means that the vending machines are going to be yanked out of schools? Or is there going to be pressure to really just improve the choices for kids so that maybe not broccoli, but there will be something that's healthy and palatable inside a vending machine at school?

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, you know, see, here's the thing: the vending machines are a source of tremendous income for the schools. They fund a lot of school programs, athletic teams, things like that. So they're going to get a lot of resistance to actually getting rid of the vending machines from schools. But there is a compromise to be reached here, potentially in the types of products that are offered. For example, 30 percent of individual snacks contain fat. Thirty percent or less, calories from fat per serving.

Again, these are options. I think that most people believe that are testifying today that, in fact, people will still buy products from these vending machines because people just do that. But if you offer the healthier options, you might get a little bit of both, both the money and the health.

O'BRIEN: Yes, but at the same time, you know, sometimes you offer the healthier options to the kids, and actually what they really want is the really sweetened sugary soda drink. They don't want the healthy option. So how do parents or school administrators make kids still use the vending machine but pick the better choice?

GUPTA: Well, I mean, I think if you don't offer it to them they're not going to be able to get it as easily. But I think your point is well taken. It all starts in the home, really, with parents eating healthy at home, providing those options, teaching moderation.

Maybe we could all imagine a day when kids actually will buy healthier products from the vending machines. It's not a day anywhere close, but I think it might be down the horizon if some of this passes -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: It would be a day that's nice to see. All right. Sanjay, thanks, as always.

GUPTA: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: In a moment here, Soledad, Major General Antonio Taguba, the man who uncovered what was going on in Iraqi prisons, live coverage of that hearing starts in about 11 minutes on Capitol Hill.

Also in a moment, our talk today with Brad Pitt. A lot riding on the release of his new film, "Troy." That's in theaters on Friday. We'll talk about that and the expanding household in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: A live picture from the room. We're about eight minutes away from what's anticipated to be the start of that testimony today. Three members of the U.S. Armed forces there, including the man who wrote the report about the prison abuse, live coverage as soon as that gets underway -- 9:23 here in New York, D.C. as well. We'll get you there live at the bottom of the hour here.

Question of the Day, Jack?

CAFFERTY: Recent prison abuse scandal has caused more and more Americans, according to recent polls, to say that it's not a good idea to have gone to war in Iraq. The abuse scandal, did it change your view of the war in Iraq, is the question we're asking.

Ron in Dallas, Texas, writes: "As a former soldier, I can tell you the only thing that the soldiers over there care about is having support at home. Since our commander in chief, or even his opponent, for that matter, have no intention of ending the war, we should not be asking do we support the war. We should be asking, what can I do to help the war effort?

John in Charlottesville, Virginia: "Are you kidding me? Until I see Iraqi POWs thrown out of the second-story window blindfolded, our so-called atrocities pale in comparison. The troops responsible should be punished, but let's keep things in perspective here."

Karen in Alabama, "The Iraq war was the right thing to do. The prisoner abuse scandal only confirms that a defense lawyer and a liberal media can create enough of a distraction that criminals may go free. Even Ted Kennedy is feeling sorry for those morons. Doesn't anyone think it's odd that those soldiers took all of the pictures on their own personal digital camera and, yet, they claim they were ordered to do it.?

"Wake up. You're being manipulated by very good attorneys for a few perverts."

And George writes this: "Maybe we need to intermix photos of American civilian contractors that were car jacked, killed and hung from a bridge. Or maybe those vivid pictures of the September 11 attacks. Or maybe the mass grave sites of the former regime, or the mustard attacks on the Kurds, or any number of photos of atrocities that the former regime of Saddam Hussein, the Taliban or al Qaeda. In the big picture, just how big is this?"

Interesting points of view.

HEMMER: Don't ever look at what is happening in Najaf today. How many times or how few times have we reported that hundreds of Iraqis have taken to the streets to get the militia, Muqtada al-Sadr, out of that city? It's the first time that I can remember.

CAFFERTY: And they got a new mayor there, too, right?

HEMMER: That they did.

CAFFERTY: Now there's a job. How would you like to have that job?

HEMMER: Yours.

I want to get to that epic film. "Troy" opens nationwide on Friday. Last night, that movie premiered at New York's famous Ziegfeld Theater.

The first starring role in three years for Brad Pitt. He players the warrior, Achilles, in the tale going back to the Trojan War. Not only is "Troy" one of the year's most anticipated films, it cost a pretty penny, $200 million, one of the most expensive ever made, which for the leading man could be a double edge sword.

I talked with Brad Pitt recently, asked him if he felt the need to have an epic like this film on his resume.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRAD PITT, ACTOR: It came along at a good time. I was off for a couple of years and I was ready to take on something really difficult and arduous. And so -- but I don't know about stacking a resume. I just kind of go where the next one...

HEMMER: I've got to think, though, I mean, a guy like you, you probably get so many scripts put in front of you in California. Why did you pick this one?

PITT: I just -- it's one of the great stories in literature. And I thought the themes really resonated today, whether that was my projection or Homer's intentions. You know, it didn't seem like we had come very far.

HEMMER: There is a lot in this film.

PITT: Yes.

HEMMER: Two hundred million dollars. Do you feel this certain pressure when you're putting that much money into a film trying to make it back at the box office?

PITT: You know, I try not to. Listen, the truth is, no, I don't really think that way. And I should think a little more that way.

HEMMER: Somebody I think once said that acting is 80 percent running. Have you to look good physically when you're doing things.

PITT: That's funny.

HEMMER: Have you thought about that, and do you agree with that?

PITT: No, I don't.

HEMMER: No?

PITT: Well, it depends on the tone of the film and what the film is about. But so much of it requires the research going in. This one was all about preparation and research.

PETER O'TOOLE, ACTOR, "TROY": I cannot change what happened. It is the will of the gods.

HEMMER: Peter O'Toole really involved in one of the first major epic films, "Lawrence of Arabia."

PITT: That's right.

HEMMER: He cut the cloth.

PITT: Yes.

HEMMER: What was it like working with him?

PITT: I don't know that I can do it justice, but for me, it was -- it was a pinnacle. Very eloquent and very powerful, and comes from a training that I haven't had, I don't completely understand. But he's just one of the masters and a delight to be around.

HEMMER: Your wife made a joke, I think, on "Saturday Night Live" about starting a family together. Is it time now to expand the Pitt- Aniston household?

PITT: I think it's time. I think it's time. We've been in rehearsals long enough.

HEMMER: We'll leave it at that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Brad Pitt from a short time ago here in New York City.

Back to the Senate Armed Services Committee. Major General Antonio Taguba will begin his testimony in a matter of moments. Two other members will address, sent over by the Pentagon today. Will talk about primarily this report that was put out a few months ago that details in great graphic detail the abuse that took place at that prison, Abu Ghraib, 20 miles west of Baghdad.

O'BRIEN: And you're seeing the general right there. It was interesting to hear from Barbara Starr at the Pentagon that some of the folks at the Pentagon, some sources there telling her some people feel that his report was too emotional, that, you know, at the same time, saying, well, to actually make any public criticism of the report would be, to some degree, shooting the messenger at this point. But it will be interesting to hear what he has to say. It will be interesting what the general's position is on that, of course, because he's the one who's done all the investigation.

HEMMER: Center stage for Taguba today, age 53, born in the Philippines.

Ed Henry on Capitol Hill, watching as well. It was riveting on Friday with Secretary Rumsfeld and General Richard Myers. Do we anticipate, Ed, to have that same fever pitch in the hearings this morning?

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We absolutely do. But one big difference is that this will not be necessarily a confrontation.

Last Friday, Secretary Rumsfeld was coming under very difficult circumstances, a lot of pressure, political pressure on Secretary Rumsfeld to resign from Democrats. Also, political pressure from Republicans to get Rumsfeld to talk about what really went on, why he did not get Congress in the loop. Unlike that, General Taguba is seen as an honest broker by Democratic and Republican senators. A non-political person, a general who is seen as the person who really exposed the truth first. So this will not be a confrontation.

But one big surprise is that it was expected that General Taguba would be alone, unlike Secretary Rumsfeld, who brought in four other officials with him last week. And as you remember, there was a two- hour time limit last Friday in the Senate hearing. So that made the clock run out a lot quicker with all those other officials.

It was supposed to be General Taguba alone this morning. But CNN has confirmed that late yesterday the Pentagon called over to the committee and asked that two other Pentagon officials be added. Those officials, Steven Cambone, the number two intelligence official. He's actually the lead intelligence official -- the assistant secretary, I should say, at the Pentagon for intelligence matters. And also Lieutenant General Lance Smith who is number two at CENTCOM.

They will also be testifying. That is going to make it more difficult for senators to zero in on questions for General Taguba. There will be two other officials with him -- Bill.

HEMMER: Ed, we are told that in total, a thousand photos are contained on three different CD roms. Of that thousand, you have between 200 and 300 that detail abuse that took place at Abu Ghraib. There's a continuing argument, a bit of a tug of war as to release more publicly now or take the chance and hold it back, take the chance of it being released at a later time, and not through White House or through Pentagon sources.

What do you have on that today as to where we are in that argument, Ed?

HENRY: Well, first of all, it's a political hot potato for the Congress as well, because the Senate does not want to receive these photos and these videos and then release them themselves. They would rather that it be handled by the administration for legal reasons, first of all, but also, secondly, political reasons obviously also involved here.

So what is going on right now, three Senate lawyers are talking it out, trying to weigh all of the ramifications, review the situation. And it's very likely that the Senate committee and maybe even the entire Senate within the next couple of days will get these photos and videos, but not release them.

It seems like Senate leaders privately are saying they do not want to be the ones who are setting a new precedent where the Senate will be releasing publicly to the world very graphic photos and possibly graphic videos as well. They would rather have senators review this material so they're educated about what is about to be released, but then give them back to the Pentagon so that the Senate does not compromise any ongoing investigations. Instead, kick it back to the Pentagon and let the Pentagon and the White House make that decision. As you can imagine, there will be more and more political pressure on the White House to get this material out there. We've heard a lot of Republicans privately grumble about drip, drip, drip. And if news organizations keep getting their hands on these photos and potentially the videos, and they dribble out, that could be a bigger political problem for the White House -- Bill.

O'BRIEN: It's Soledad. When you look at the order of the opening statements that we're expecting, really in just moments, Steven Cambone, military intelligence, Lieutenant General Lance Smith of the U.S. Air Force, and then we're going to hear from Major General Antonio Taguba. I'm curious about that order, and why in that way -- I mean, you mentioned that originally it was planned to have General Taguba by himself and that changed. But why this order?

HENRY: It seems like the Pentagon wants to manage this a bit and try to make sure that it's not only General Taguba. He's not leading the show. But I think you'll see a lot of senators directing most of their questions to General Taguba, not to the two other officials. That's because he is the honest broker in the situation.

He is the person who first exposed the truth. And I think that order, you're right to point that out, because it does seem a little odd. General Taguba is the marquis person here.

He's the one that all the senators and, in fact, the entire nation is waiting to hear from because his report in March is what really got the ball rolling on this situation. But I think what is at work here is that the Pentagon wants to make sure that Taguba does not have the stage to himself. Because as Barbara Starr reported earlier, there may be some frustration at the Pentagon that maybe General Taguba went a little far, maybe that he's perhaps not a team player, he's somebody that went out on a limb and revealed a lot of this information early on -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Ed Henry for us. Ed, could we ask you to stick around as we wait for the beginning of this testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee? We're going to check in now with Dana Bash, who's at the White House for us.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Soledad.

And they are watching certainly here at the White House. And it's interesting to remember that this is a report that the president himself didn't even know about until really essentially last week, the last 10 days or so. One of the reasons why we're told he privately admonished his defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, was not only because he did not see the pictures, but because he didn't even know about this report.

And remember, it was senior brass at the military also who said they hadn't read the report up through just a little more than a week ago. So they're watching, certainly here at the White House, to hear what he has to say as he talks about the details of exactly how intense this abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison was. The other thing that's interesting to watch is whether or not there are questions of what he may know and others may know beyond Abu Ghraib. Because the Red Cross report that was revealed yesterday certainly indicated that officials at the White House, at the Pentagon, were told about prison abuses that may be more widespread around Iraq. And that, as the president continues to say that the actions that we see at Abu Ghraib, these pictures, are the actions of just a few men trying to sort of stem this and not acknowledging at this point that they think it's systemic as some think it may be.

O'BRIEN: We heard just moments ago, Ed was describing General Taguba as an honest broker, really seen by both Democrats and Republicans as someone who is not going to be challenged but there to just tell his story. At the same time, we heard from Barbara Starr that some of the folks at the Pentagon, some sources, think maybe he was a little bit overly emotional in his report.

I'd be curious to know the White House's official position on General Taguba. Have they taken a position on the man himself and what they think of his character, which, of course, reflects through his report? He's just taken a seat, Dana, so maybe we should keep this answer a little short.

BASH: Yes, basically, Soledad, they're not really going there. They're simply waiting and listening to what he has to say and really want to know the details of what is in his report at this time.

O'BRIEN: Dana Bash, again, thanks.

We've got -- Senator Warner has just begun the proceedings. You can see him there on your right. And he is beginning, as we are seeing also General Taguba sitting and listening to the start of the hearings. So let's listen in on what Senator Warner is saying and how he is beginning these hearings.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 11, 2004 - 9:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. A critical public hearing 30 minutes away in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal starts this hour on Capitol Hill.
The president with his work cut out with him. The war in Iraq now taking a serious toll on his approval rating.

Severe weather storming to the Rockies, bringing twisters on the plains this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody.

Other stories that we're following this morning: some big trouble for school vending machines. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to join us again looking at a movement to lower teenage obesity is what I'm trying to say.

Thank you for helping, Jack. Can anybody really hope that they're going to be able to beat the big companies that make all that junk food really is the big question.

HEMMER: Also this hour, my conversation with Brad Pitt, back on the big screen for the first time in three weeks. "Troy" is out this week, and a huge, sweeping epic. We'll talk about the role, the budget, and even talk a little bit about his family life at home.

Stay tuned for that.

O'BRIEN: Hi, Jack.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Did you ask him about his haircut?

O'BRIEN: He looks good.

HEMMER: No. He grew it long for the film.

CAFFERTY: Of course he looks good. He's Brad Pitt. But I was just curious about the haircut.

Has the prisoner abuse scandal changed your view of the war in Iraq? AM@CNN.com, if you have a thought you'd like to share. Please write. HEMMER: Good deal. Thank you, Jack.

Top stories now, starting another hour.

Military officials in Iraq say U.S. troops have killed 13 fighters loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. That operation comes as hundreds of Iraqis take to the streets of Najaf today. The demonstrators calling on al-Sadr and his fighters to pack up and leave the Iraqi holy city.

More clashes between the Israelis and Palestinians in Gaza. Earlier today, an Israeli helicopter fired a missile into a car in Gaza. It's not clear if anyone was injured. The attack taking place hours after six Israeli soldiers traveled in an armored personnel carrier were killed in Gaza. Palestinian militants were shown holding pieces of that vehicle. Overnight battles in Gaza leaving at least five Palestinians dead as well, and wounding about 40 others.

The NBA star, Kobe Bryant, expected to plead not guilty in the case against him. A judge is still considering whether or not his accuser's sexual history and information about her mental well-being should be admissible in that trial. A three-day pretrial hearing continues today, day two in Eagle. It began yesterday with a surprise appearance from Kobe Bryant's accuser.

Tornadoes tearing across the state of Colorado. If you haven't seen it yet, look at the video here. Unbelievable size in these twisters blowing through Elbert County, outside of Denver. One family lost their farmhouse and a barn in that storm. They did survive.

Severe thunderstorms also producing baseball-sized hail across Colorado. A lot of open country in that part of the state, which is good news for the folks out there. Huge tornadoes.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Coming up later this hour on CNN, public testimony about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. It goes before the Senate Armed Services Committee. Among those who are testifying, U.S. Army Major General Antonio Taguba, the author of the Pentagon report that sparked the scandal.

Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr joins us this morning with a preview of that.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.

Well, as we await General Taguba's testimony, just about 25 minutes from now, the Pentagon and the White House are still struggling with whether to release hundreds of additional photographs of alleged detainee abuse, release them both to Congress and to the public.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STARR (voice-over): The Senate hearing will be the first public airing of the classified report by Taguba investigating the alleged abuse of Iraqis at Abu Ghraib prison. One key question will be, were the military police really acting under orders from military intelligence officers? That report found that between October and December 2003, there were numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses inflicted on several detainees.

SEN. CARL LEVIN (D), MICHIGAN: General Taguba's investigation, as reported, paints an alarming picture of abuse and humiliation of Iraq prisoners. It has enraged people here at home and throughout the civilized world.

STARR: In Baghdad, still an effort to move forward by the general now in charge of prison operations.

MAJ. GEN. GEOFFREY MILLER, U.S. ARMY: We are moving as rapidly as we possibly can to find the truth and also to provide appropriate safeguards for the rights of those who are being investigated.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Now, Soledad, of course, not only are there photographs, but there are a number of computerized video clips. One source who has seen some of them say they also show disturbing and humiliating behavior against Iraqi detainees, some of it of a sexual nature -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Barbara, what has been the reaction at the Pentagon by officials of the Pentagon to General Taguba overall, and specifically his report as well?

STARR: Well, this becomes a very delicate question. What we are now hearing from some of our sources is there is at least a bit of a bad feeling towards General Taguba, that some uniform senior military officers feel that his report may be overwritten, over-emotional in the words of some people. But other sources tell us that's becoming a case of shooting the messenger. So clearly an issue of great controversy here in the Pentagon with the U.S. military.

O'BRIEN: No question about that. All right. Barbara Starr for us this morning. Barbara, thanks a lot.

And CNN, of course, is going to provide live coverage of Major General Antonio Taguba's testimony before the Armed Services Committee. The panel convenes around 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time, and that is really just about 22 minutes from now.

HEMMER: Well, the first court-martial stemming from the prisoner abuse scandal scheduled now for a week from tomorrow, Wednesday in Baghdad, when Specialist Jeremy Sivits will be tried. Another soldier facing charges, Specialist Megan Ambuhl, seen here in her high school photo yearbook.

Ambuhl's attorney is Harvey Volzer. He's live with us from Washington.

Good morning. Welcome here.

HARVEY VOLZER, ATTORNEY FOR MEGAN AMBUHL: Good morning.

HEMMER: I know you met with your client in Baghdad recently. How did she explain what happened there in that prison?

VOLZER: Well, she explained that they were working under the instructions of military intelligence. And my client has not been seen, nor will she be seen in any of the photographs that have been released or will be released.

Her problem was that they charged every member of the night shift at the prison with the court-martial offense. And she happened to be one of the six people there. PFC England was also charged, but she was not an MP.

HEMMER: Let me stop you there. Are you sugaring she was at the wrong place at the wrong time and is innocent of anything?

VOLZER: Well, I'm defending her and, of course, no defense counsel is going to say his client is guilty, especially not on national television.

HEMMER: We were told yesterday an attorney for Private First Class Lynndie England, we were told that those photos were staged. Is that part of your defense, or is that outside of your legal defense? Because, as you say, your client was not seen any photos.

VOLZER: Well, that may be part of their defense. It's not part of my defense.

HEMMER: You describe Specialist Ambuhl as "a very clean and wholesome girl," using your words here. Why did she not report what was happening there at the prison?

VOLZER: Well, what no one seems to focus on is that there was no one to report to. The NCOs who were in charge of her were all there when these things were occurring. The military intelligence personnel, the interrogators who were in control of the prison, all knew that this was going on.

Brigadier General Karpinski and the people under her were never at the prison. There was frankly no way of reporting to anyone.

HEMMER: When you were with your client recently, did you talk about Geneva Conventions, the laws that govern?

VOLZER: Yes. This is really hilarious because -- well, not hilarious, but they were never given any instruction on the Geneva Convention before they went over there.

HEMMER: If that's the case, does that excuse the behavior?

VOLZER: Well, it depends on what the behavior was. If you're acting under military intelligence, and they're telling you that they're getting good information from the prisoners as a result of the activities, and that this is going to mean that the war is going to be over quicker, that the Iraqi people will be freer than they've been in years, and that the American people won't have to worry about chemical weapons and nuclear weapons or attack, then you think you're doing a good thing.

HEMMER: Is that the defense you're starting to plot?

VOLZER: Sounds like it, doesn't it?

HEMMER: Yes, it certainly does. And also, what we're told, the Sunni insurgency in the triangle area really started to spark up this time last fall. So what you're going to do is, if your client is court-martialed -- is that a possibility, number one?

VOLZER: Well, it is a possibility. One of the things that happened yesterday was Article 32 investigative report on my client came down, and they've dropped half the charges -- well, they've recommended that half the charges be dropped. The only charges that are recommended to go forward are dereliction of duty and conspiracy with the other persons involving the leash incident with Lynndie England.

HEMMER: Yes. Finally, if I could here in the short time we have left, what did your client say about her state of mind, her feelings, knowing that the story is out there not just in this country, but around the world, for that matter, and quite despicable in so many cases?

VOLZER: Well, she and her parents are very upset, as you can imagine being depicted as a torturer and abuser. And it sort of flies in the face of 29 years of living and everything they think they know about their daughter. So it's been a very difficult time.

HEMMER: All right. Well, listen, keep us posted. I mean, obviously, the interest is extremely high. Harvey Volzer is the attorney for Megan Ambuhl, not seen in the photos, but, again, at the center of this controversy emanating out of Baghdad today.

Thank you, sir, for your time this morning.

VOLZER: You're welcome.

O'BRIEN: We are expecting testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee to begin at the half-hour, 9:30 Eastern Time, is when we are expecting that. We're going to of course bring that to you live from Capitol Hill.

HEMMER: Also...

O'BRIEN: I'm sorry.

HEMMER: I apologize. Junk food, is it what's lunch at school these days? Sanjay looks at that, what maybe is a disturbing trend. O'BRIEN: And pitting Brad against the mighty Trojan army. Will it bring blockbuster success? Bill's interview with Brad Pitt just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Just how big a problem is the food in the vending machines at schools? One senator says it's so bad, he wants the federal government involved. Iowa Senator Tom Harkin is holding a press conference this hour. We've got Dr. Sanjay Gupta at the CNN Center with more on the problem and also some possible solutions.

Hey, Sanjay. Good morning.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.

And Senator Harkin is not alone. Certainly vending machines have been in the sights of both senators and congressmen for quite sometime now. Thirty-seven percent of the nation's youth is either overweight or obese. Significant numbers; you and I have talked about those numbers before.

Why is it? What's the problem here? Vending machines may be one of them.

Sort of interesting stuff coming out of the Center for Science and the Public Interest. First, the facts. This is based on a survey of 251 schools that had 1,400 vending machines.

They found that 70 percent of those vending machines are still stocked with sugary drinks, 14 percent diet, 12 percent water, and only five percent milk. Didn't we all used to drink milk at one point or another?

Also, as far as the snacks go, looking at the school vending machine snacks, 80 percent of them are candy, chips and sweet baked goods. Less than one percent are fruits or vegetables. Certainly no one likes to spend their extra 50 cents on a piece of broccoli, but you can see the problem here, Soledad. The choices just aren't there for a lot of the kids buying products from these vending machines in public schools.

O'BRIEN: But if the federal government gets involved, as the Iowa senator would like to see, do you think that means that the vending machines are going to be yanked out of schools? Or is there going to be pressure to really just improve the choices for kids so that maybe not broccoli, but there will be something that's healthy and palatable inside a vending machine at school?

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, you know, see, here's the thing: the vending machines are a source of tremendous income for the schools. They fund a lot of school programs, athletic teams, things like that. So they're going to get a lot of resistance to actually getting rid of the vending machines from schools. But there is a compromise to be reached here, potentially in the types of products that are offered. For example, 30 percent of individual snacks contain fat. Thirty percent or less, calories from fat per serving.

Again, these are options. I think that most people believe that are testifying today that, in fact, people will still buy products from these vending machines because people just do that. But if you offer the healthier options, you might get a little bit of both, both the money and the health.

O'BRIEN: Yes, but at the same time, you know, sometimes you offer the healthier options to the kids, and actually what they really want is the really sweetened sugary soda drink. They don't want the healthy option. So how do parents or school administrators make kids still use the vending machine but pick the better choice?

GUPTA: Well, I mean, I think if you don't offer it to them they're not going to be able to get it as easily. But I think your point is well taken. It all starts in the home, really, with parents eating healthy at home, providing those options, teaching moderation.

Maybe we could all imagine a day when kids actually will buy healthier products from the vending machines. It's not a day anywhere close, but I think it might be down the horizon if some of this passes -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: It would be a day that's nice to see. All right. Sanjay, thanks, as always.

GUPTA: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: In a moment here, Soledad, Major General Antonio Taguba, the man who uncovered what was going on in Iraqi prisons, live coverage of that hearing starts in about 11 minutes on Capitol Hill.

Also in a moment, our talk today with Brad Pitt. A lot riding on the release of his new film, "Troy." That's in theaters on Friday. We'll talk about that and the expanding household in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: A live picture from the room. We're about eight minutes away from what's anticipated to be the start of that testimony today. Three members of the U.S. Armed forces there, including the man who wrote the report about the prison abuse, live coverage as soon as that gets underway -- 9:23 here in New York, D.C. as well. We'll get you there live at the bottom of the hour here.

Question of the Day, Jack?

CAFFERTY: Recent prison abuse scandal has caused more and more Americans, according to recent polls, to say that it's not a good idea to have gone to war in Iraq. The abuse scandal, did it change your view of the war in Iraq, is the question we're asking.

Ron in Dallas, Texas, writes: "As a former soldier, I can tell you the only thing that the soldiers over there care about is having support at home. Since our commander in chief, or even his opponent, for that matter, have no intention of ending the war, we should not be asking do we support the war. We should be asking, what can I do to help the war effort?

John in Charlottesville, Virginia: "Are you kidding me? Until I see Iraqi POWs thrown out of the second-story window blindfolded, our so-called atrocities pale in comparison. The troops responsible should be punished, but let's keep things in perspective here."

Karen in Alabama, "The Iraq war was the right thing to do. The prisoner abuse scandal only confirms that a defense lawyer and a liberal media can create enough of a distraction that criminals may go free. Even Ted Kennedy is feeling sorry for those morons. Doesn't anyone think it's odd that those soldiers took all of the pictures on their own personal digital camera and, yet, they claim they were ordered to do it.?

"Wake up. You're being manipulated by very good attorneys for a few perverts."

And George writes this: "Maybe we need to intermix photos of American civilian contractors that were car jacked, killed and hung from a bridge. Or maybe those vivid pictures of the September 11 attacks. Or maybe the mass grave sites of the former regime, or the mustard attacks on the Kurds, or any number of photos of atrocities that the former regime of Saddam Hussein, the Taliban or al Qaeda. In the big picture, just how big is this?"

Interesting points of view.

HEMMER: Don't ever look at what is happening in Najaf today. How many times or how few times have we reported that hundreds of Iraqis have taken to the streets to get the militia, Muqtada al-Sadr, out of that city? It's the first time that I can remember.

CAFFERTY: And they got a new mayor there, too, right?

HEMMER: That they did.

CAFFERTY: Now there's a job. How would you like to have that job?

HEMMER: Yours.

I want to get to that epic film. "Troy" opens nationwide on Friday. Last night, that movie premiered at New York's famous Ziegfeld Theater.

The first starring role in three years for Brad Pitt. He players the warrior, Achilles, in the tale going back to the Trojan War. Not only is "Troy" one of the year's most anticipated films, it cost a pretty penny, $200 million, one of the most expensive ever made, which for the leading man could be a double edge sword.

I talked with Brad Pitt recently, asked him if he felt the need to have an epic like this film on his resume.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRAD PITT, ACTOR: It came along at a good time. I was off for a couple of years and I was ready to take on something really difficult and arduous. And so -- but I don't know about stacking a resume. I just kind of go where the next one...

HEMMER: I've got to think, though, I mean, a guy like you, you probably get so many scripts put in front of you in California. Why did you pick this one?

PITT: I just -- it's one of the great stories in literature. And I thought the themes really resonated today, whether that was my projection or Homer's intentions. You know, it didn't seem like we had come very far.

HEMMER: There is a lot in this film.

PITT: Yes.

HEMMER: Two hundred million dollars. Do you feel this certain pressure when you're putting that much money into a film trying to make it back at the box office?

PITT: You know, I try not to. Listen, the truth is, no, I don't really think that way. And I should think a little more that way.

HEMMER: Somebody I think once said that acting is 80 percent running. Have you to look good physically when you're doing things.

PITT: That's funny.

HEMMER: Have you thought about that, and do you agree with that?

PITT: No, I don't.

HEMMER: No?

PITT: Well, it depends on the tone of the film and what the film is about. But so much of it requires the research going in. This one was all about preparation and research.

PETER O'TOOLE, ACTOR, "TROY": I cannot change what happened. It is the will of the gods.

HEMMER: Peter O'Toole really involved in one of the first major epic films, "Lawrence of Arabia."

PITT: That's right.

HEMMER: He cut the cloth.

PITT: Yes.

HEMMER: What was it like working with him?

PITT: I don't know that I can do it justice, but for me, it was -- it was a pinnacle. Very eloquent and very powerful, and comes from a training that I haven't had, I don't completely understand. But he's just one of the masters and a delight to be around.

HEMMER: Your wife made a joke, I think, on "Saturday Night Live" about starting a family together. Is it time now to expand the Pitt- Aniston household?

PITT: I think it's time. I think it's time. We've been in rehearsals long enough.

HEMMER: We'll leave it at that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Brad Pitt from a short time ago here in New York City.

Back to the Senate Armed Services Committee. Major General Antonio Taguba will begin his testimony in a matter of moments. Two other members will address, sent over by the Pentagon today. Will talk about primarily this report that was put out a few months ago that details in great graphic detail the abuse that took place at that prison, Abu Ghraib, 20 miles west of Baghdad.

O'BRIEN: And you're seeing the general right there. It was interesting to hear from Barbara Starr at the Pentagon that some of the folks at the Pentagon, some sources there telling her some people feel that his report was too emotional, that, you know, at the same time, saying, well, to actually make any public criticism of the report would be, to some degree, shooting the messenger at this point. But it will be interesting to hear what he has to say. It will be interesting what the general's position is on that, of course, because he's the one who's done all the investigation.

HEMMER: Center stage for Taguba today, age 53, born in the Philippines.

Ed Henry on Capitol Hill, watching as well. It was riveting on Friday with Secretary Rumsfeld and General Richard Myers. Do we anticipate, Ed, to have that same fever pitch in the hearings this morning?

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We absolutely do. But one big difference is that this will not be necessarily a confrontation.

Last Friday, Secretary Rumsfeld was coming under very difficult circumstances, a lot of pressure, political pressure on Secretary Rumsfeld to resign from Democrats. Also, political pressure from Republicans to get Rumsfeld to talk about what really went on, why he did not get Congress in the loop. Unlike that, General Taguba is seen as an honest broker by Democratic and Republican senators. A non-political person, a general who is seen as the person who really exposed the truth first. So this will not be a confrontation.

But one big surprise is that it was expected that General Taguba would be alone, unlike Secretary Rumsfeld, who brought in four other officials with him last week. And as you remember, there was a two- hour time limit last Friday in the Senate hearing. So that made the clock run out a lot quicker with all those other officials.

It was supposed to be General Taguba alone this morning. But CNN has confirmed that late yesterday the Pentagon called over to the committee and asked that two other Pentagon officials be added. Those officials, Steven Cambone, the number two intelligence official. He's actually the lead intelligence official -- the assistant secretary, I should say, at the Pentagon for intelligence matters. And also Lieutenant General Lance Smith who is number two at CENTCOM.

They will also be testifying. That is going to make it more difficult for senators to zero in on questions for General Taguba. There will be two other officials with him -- Bill.

HEMMER: Ed, we are told that in total, a thousand photos are contained on three different CD roms. Of that thousand, you have between 200 and 300 that detail abuse that took place at Abu Ghraib. There's a continuing argument, a bit of a tug of war as to release more publicly now or take the chance and hold it back, take the chance of it being released at a later time, and not through White House or through Pentagon sources.

What do you have on that today as to where we are in that argument, Ed?

HENRY: Well, first of all, it's a political hot potato for the Congress as well, because the Senate does not want to receive these photos and these videos and then release them themselves. They would rather that it be handled by the administration for legal reasons, first of all, but also, secondly, political reasons obviously also involved here.

So what is going on right now, three Senate lawyers are talking it out, trying to weigh all of the ramifications, review the situation. And it's very likely that the Senate committee and maybe even the entire Senate within the next couple of days will get these photos and videos, but not release them.

It seems like Senate leaders privately are saying they do not want to be the ones who are setting a new precedent where the Senate will be releasing publicly to the world very graphic photos and possibly graphic videos as well. They would rather have senators review this material so they're educated about what is about to be released, but then give them back to the Pentagon so that the Senate does not compromise any ongoing investigations. Instead, kick it back to the Pentagon and let the Pentagon and the White House make that decision. As you can imagine, there will be more and more political pressure on the White House to get this material out there. We've heard a lot of Republicans privately grumble about drip, drip, drip. And if news organizations keep getting their hands on these photos and potentially the videos, and they dribble out, that could be a bigger political problem for the White House -- Bill.

O'BRIEN: It's Soledad. When you look at the order of the opening statements that we're expecting, really in just moments, Steven Cambone, military intelligence, Lieutenant General Lance Smith of the U.S. Air Force, and then we're going to hear from Major General Antonio Taguba. I'm curious about that order, and why in that way -- I mean, you mentioned that originally it was planned to have General Taguba by himself and that changed. But why this order?

HENRY: It seems like the Pentagon wants to manage this a bit and try to make sure that it's not only General Taguba. He's not leading the show. But I think you'll see a lot of senators directing most of their questions to General Taguba, not to the two other officials. That's because he is the honest broker in the situation.

He is the person who first exposed the truth. And I think that order, you're right to point that out, because it does seem a little odd. General Taguba is the marquis person here.

He's the one that all the senators and, in fact, the entire nation is waiting to hear from because his report in March is what really got the ball rolling on this situation. But I think what is at work here is that the Pentagon wants to make sure that Taguba does not have the stage to himself. Because as Barbara Starr reported earlier, there may be some frustration at the Pentagon that maybe General Taguba went a little far, maybe that he's perhaps not a team player, he's somebody that went out on a limb and revealed a lot of this information early on -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Ed Henry for us. Ed, could we ask you to stick around as we wait for the beginning of this testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee? We're going to check in now with Dana Bash, who's at the White House for us.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Soledad.

And they are watching certainly here at the White House. And it's interesting to remember that this is a report that the president himself didn't even know about until really essentially last week, the last 10 days or so. One of the reasons why we're told he privately admonished his defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, was not only because he did not see the pictures, but because he didn't even know about this report.

And remember, it was senior brass at the military also who said they hadn't read the report up through just a little more than a week ago. So they're watching, certainly here at the White House, to hear what he has to say as he talks about the details of exactly how intense this abuse at the Abu Ghraib prison was. The other thing that's interesting to watch is whether or not there are questions of what he may know and others may know beyond Abu Ghraib. Because the Red Cross report that was revealed yesterday certainly indicated that officials at the White House, at the Pentagon, were told about prison abuses that may be more widespread around Iraq. And that, as the president continues to say that the actions that we see at Abu Ghraib, these pictures, are the actions of just a few men trying to sort of stem this and not acknowledging at this point that they think it's systemic as some think it may be.

O'BRIEN: We heard just moments ago, Ed was describing General Taguba as an honest broker, really seen by both Democrats and Republicans as someone who is not going to be challenged but there to just tell his story. At the same time, we heard from Barbara Starr that some of the folks at the Pentagon, some sources, think maybe he was a little bit overly emotional in his report.

I'd be curious to know the White House's official position on General Taguba. Have they taken a position on the man himself and what they think of his character, which, of course, reflects through his report? He's just taken a seat, Dana, so maybe we should keep this answer a little short.

BASH: Yes, basically, Soledad, they're not really going there. They're simply waiting and listening to what he has to say and really want to know the details of what is in his report at this time.

O'BRIEN: Dana Bash, again, thanks.

We've got -- Senator Warner has just begun the proceedings. You can see him there on your right. And he is beginning, as we are seeing also General Taguba sitting and listening to the start of the hearings. So let's listen in on what Senator Warner is saying and how he is beginning these hearings.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com