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Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's Visit to U.S. Troops in Iraq; In Najaf, Fighting Between Iraqi Insurgents, U.S. Troops
Aired May 13, 2004 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
I want to welcome our international viewers, as well.
We are following breaking news at this hour. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld making a surprise visit in Baghdad. He's there right now. So let's head live to Baghdad for more details from Karl Penhaul -- good morning, Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there.
Donald Rumsfeld touching down a short while ago. We understand he's here with Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers, as well. A day long visit, from what we're told, but, again, the exact details of this trip being kept pretty closely under wraps for security reasons.
But obviously as secretary of defense, we would expect him in the course of the day to meet with as many American troops as he possibly can and also we don't expect that the scandal of the prison abuse at Abu Ghraib will be far away from attention. Although on the plane and according to reports talking to reporters that he took with him on the 15 hour flight from Washington, he did say that he wasn't in Iraq to come and pour water on a fire. Though, nevertheless, we would expect that he is going to face some tough questions about that Abu Ghraib Prison scandal.
COSTELLO: No doubt, Karl.
What do the troops want to hear from Mr. Rumsfeld?
PENHAUL: It depends. On the one hand, the troops that I've been speaking to over the last few days feel that to some extent their morale has been undermined by the prison scandal at Abu Ghraib. So they'll probably be looking for some kind of assurances there from the defense secretary.
Also, as well, the deaths of American servicemen continue. Today, another American serviceman died here in Baghdad in a roadside bomb. We now calculate that 777 U.S. troops have died since this conflict began. So they'll be wanting to know, many of them, I would guess, how soon they can go back and see their friends, families and loved ones, and also reassurances that they'll have the equipment to do the job here and stay safe while they're here.
COSTELLO: Going back to the prison investigation, Karl, nobody seems to know who exactly was in charge.
Will Donald Rumsfeld get some answers today, do you think?
PENHAUL: I'm not sure Donald Rumsfeld is here to look for answers to those questions. One would expect that he, as secretary of defense, knows the answers there or certainly as secretary of defense should know the answers there. I guess he would face questioning from possibly members of the Iraqi Governing Council, if he meets with those. I'm sure also he'll be briefing Ambassador Bremer on the way forward and also receiving details, possibly, in the preparations for the court-martials that are planned.
We now hear that seven U.S. soldiers are going to be court- martialed for these offenses in the prison. Charges there ranging from dereliction of duty to abuse and maltreatment of detainees.
COSTELLO: Karl Penhaul live in Baghdad this morning.
We want to get some more insight on Mr. Rumsfeld's surprise visit to Iraq.
On the phone live from Chicago, military analyst General David Grange.
Good morning, General Grange.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good morning to you.
COSTELLO: Why did Donald Rumsfeld decide to go to Iraq?
GRANGE: Well, this is a priority issue, obviously, for the Department of Defense. He wants to get on site, show command presence and I think talk to soldiers, the good soldiers. He won't talk to anybody involved in the cases. But he'll talk to the good soldiers in the units to show hey, look, everybody's doing a good job over there. We have a few problems, but the majority are doing well. And then I think he'll also talk to some of the Iraqi leaders to explain the concern of the United States and that the focus is still to get on with the mission and accomplish it.
COSTELLO: He brought some Pentagon lawyers with him.
Why?
GRANGE: I think it's always because for advice, guidance to evaluate the situation, to ensure that things are done in a fair manner. The legal process in the military is similar to in the civilian sector, to ensure that things are in progress the right way.
COSTELLO: And when he talks to the troops, you went into a little bit of what he might say to them. But what do they need to hear? GRANGE: I think they need to hear that this is a concern for the highest leadership in the United States government, that they are (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for speaking on behalf of those troops, because regardless of who is found guilty of what, there definitely was mistakes made and I think there'll be an apology. But that he's focused on still accomplishing what they set out to do on a transition for the Iraqi country to something different. And I think he wants to say they're going to stay the course, they're not going to let this ruin the overall objective. And I think he wants to do that face to face so they can see it in his eyes.
COSTELLO: As far as the Abu Ghraib Prison, nobody seems to know who was giving the orders there. Might Donald Rumsfeld look into that, ask questions of General Miller, the general now in charge of that prison?
GRANGE: Well, I'm sure he'll be talking to General Miller and other senior commanders. But, you know, the confusion on who was giving orders and all that at the -- when we listen to the testimonies in the Senate, will be concern over whether it's TCON, they call it, tactical control. And even if you have one organization that has tactical control over another, all that means is that that organization can direct operations. It doesn't have anything to do with the training of discipline that the parent organization always has as an inherent responsibility.
So I think you're going to see that there is responsibilities on both lines, but for different things. And that'll come out as they complete the investigation and they go through the legal process.
COSTELLO: All right, Gen. David Grange, many thanks to you.
And we apologize about the audio quality of that phone call.
We're going to say good-bye to our international viewers right now. But, of course, viewers in the United States and Japan and Canada, please stay with us.
Other headlines we're following this Thursday morning, Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee will resign in a few hours after his party was defeated in parliamentary elections. The new party in power will be headed by the Italian born Sonya Ghandi, who was widow of Rajid Ghandi.
In money news, The Gap is blowing the whistle on itself, saying many of its overseas workers are mistreated. The company issued what it calls a social responsibility report, vowing to improve conditions.
In sports, Sacramento beat Minnesota in second round NBA play-off action. The final score, Kings 87, Timberwolves 81. The series now tied at two games apiece.
In culture, last week we said good-bye to friends. Tonight, we bid adieu to "Frasier," which started as a spin-off of "Cheers" and has lasted 11 successful seasons -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: American troops in Karbala are battling the militia of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr today. The two forces clashed overnight in Najaf in Iraq. In the meantime, al-Sadr is sending mixed signals on efforts to bring peace to the city.
CNN's Jane Arraf is with the U.S. troops in Najaf.
She joins us live this morning -- hello, Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.
Those clashes you mentioned were the closest to the holy shrines since U.S. forces have got here. Now, they were still about almost a mile, three quarters of a mile from the Imam Ali Mosque, which is one of the holiest sites for Shia Muslims around the world. But they were on the edge of the holy cemetery, the cemetery that Shias all over the world aspire to be buried in. U.S. officials here say on a routine patrol on the highway near that cemetery, their patrol came under fire from rocket propelled grenades. They fired back, killing, they say, three suspected members of the Mahdi militia. They called in tanks and reinforcements, partly in response to a request for help from an Iraqi police station in the area. That firefight continued for about an hour last night -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Jane Arraf reporting live from Najaf, Iraq this morning.
Two more U.S. soldiers will be court-martialed for allegedly abusing Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib Prison.
Let's go live to D.C. and Bill Prasad.
He has the latest on the prisoner abuse scandal from the Washington angle -- good morning, Bill.
BILL PRASAD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Pornographic, disgusting and humiliating -- that's how senators describe the photos of prisoner abuse. It's still unclear if those photos will be released to the public, especially after the homicide that killed Nicholas Berg.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PRASAD (voice-over): Bag after bag filled with evidence of abuse against Iraqi detainees. Senators viewed about a thousand photographs and digital video, among them, pictures of a man beating his head against a wall; video of hooded men masturbating; and Iraqi women forced to bare their breasts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very appalling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they were bad. They're all bad. PRASAD: Senior Republicans warned against making the pictures public because they say it may incite more violence against Americans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Err on the side of caution. I think at this time, it would not be wise to publish them.
PRASAD: Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz will testify at a Senate hearing today. He's expected to be questioned about the prison abuse scandal. Yesterday, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld promised justice.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: People will be punished at every level.
PRASAD: The body of slain American Nicholas Berg is now back in the U.S. A private memorial service is set for tomorrow. His sister Sarah spoke to reporters.
SARAH BERG: My family is devastated.
PRASAD: A group that says it has ties to al Qaeda taped the murder of the 26-year-old then put the images on the Web.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no justification for the brutal execution of Nicholas Berg. No justification whatsoever.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PRASAD: The FBI says it is now the leading investigative agency in this homicide.
Well, live in Washington, I'm Bill Prasad -- Carol, back to you.
COSTELLO: All right, thank you, Bill.
Interrogation techniques by U.S. intelligence officials are coming under question. The "New York Times" is reporting the CIA is using coercion in questioning some al Qaeda suspects. The "Times" reports, and I'm quoting here, "These techniques were authorized by a set of secret rules for interrogation of high level al Qaeda prisoners -- none known to be housed in Iraq -- that were endorsed by the Justice Department and the CIA."
Now, a year and a half ago, CNN visited the U.S. Army intelligence training center in Arizona. One interrogation instructor who worked in Afghanistan and did not want his identity revealed had this to say about the training there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to keep in mind that they're human. And if you do forget that, then you lose some of your best tools. You will be amazed at what a kind word and a cup of hot cocoa on a 15 degree night will get you as far as information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Veteran intelligence officials say the large numbers of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan are draining the supply of trained interrogators.
Just ahead on DAYBREAK, more on Donald Rumsfeld's surprise visit to Baghdad this morning.
And later, images of war, prisoner abuse, the killing of a hostage and flag draped coffins -- how much is too much for you? We'll have an in depth look.
This is DAYBREAK for Thursday, May 13.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports.
It's just about 6:15 Eastern.
Here's what's all new this morning.
U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in Baghdad right now for a surprise visit. He's being accompanied by General Richard Myers, who is, of course, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.
In Madison, Wisconsin this morning, there will be a pretrial conference for the college student who is accused of faking her own abduction. Audrey Seiler faces two misdemeanor counts in connection with her four day disappearance.
In money news, Maria Shriver is launching a line of jewelry promoting California landmarks -- for example, a charm bracelet featuring the Golden Gate Bridge. Some of the photos will -- or some of the profits, rather, will help the state promote trade with other countries.
In sports, the NCAA says 35 percent of male athletes admit to betting on college sports within the past year. For female athletes, the figure is 10 percent.
In culture, Disney will sell Michael Moore's controversial documentary "Fahrenheit 911" to the co-chairman of Miramax. Disney had blocked release of the film, which is critical of President Bush's handling of the terror attacks -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you.
The hot talker, or should we say the hot talkers of the morning, are more disgusting pictures from the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal and Donald Rumsfeld's visit to Baghdad this morning.
We tuned the dial to WTOP News Radio in Washington, D.C.
Judlyne Lilly live on the phone with us.
Good morning, Judlyne.
JUDLYNE LILLY, WTOP ANCHOR: Good morning, Carol.
How are you?
COSTELLO: I'm fine.
So the questions surrounding the prisoner abuse photos -- will the public ever see more of them or should they?
LILLY: Well, that's a big question that Congress is definitely wrestling with. The Pentagon doesn't think they should be open. But one congressman believes that if you just get them all out there now, maybe it'll be over soon. And that may not work because this information is coming out daily. It's coming out like a horrible torrent of dirty, filthy water. And as you keep going, the water isn't getting any cleaner or clearer.
So that may not work in keeping those pictures.
COSTELLO: Well, you know what, though, Judlyne? This has seemingly become another partisan disagreement, with Republicans saying that they should not release any more photos and Democrats, some Democrats saying they should release more photos.
LILLY: It is not as stridently and divisional bipartisan as other things have been on the Hill, mainly, I believe, because the congressman and the law makers have seen these pictures, the ones that the public has not seen. And they are even more menacing, as we have been told in earlier reports on CNN, even more menacing, even more horrible than the ones we have already seen.
So there is some political nature being made on this. But generally speaking, it's not as divisive as it generally is.
COSTELLO: Donald Rumsfeld is in Iraq this morning. We don't know exactly what he's doing there, but he is in Iraq and I suppose he'll be talking to troops later today.
What purpose will his visit serve? What's the talk in Washington?
LILLY: It looks like it's going to be a twofold sort of thing, the surprise visit that he makes to Baghdad. He's supporting the troops. He'll -- maybe he'll take a look at the scene of the crime at the prison and find out for himself, take a look at it, see what's going on exactly there for himself. And he can then determine whether or not he needs to go or what he needs to do to make the situation better for the prisoners, and, of course, for the troops that are serving in Iraq.
COSTELLO: And by that you mean whether or not he should resign or stay?
LILLY: Yes. Yes.
COSTELLO: All right, Judlyne Lilly reporting live for us from WTOP Radio in Washington, D.C.
Well, the Bush administration sends a message to Syria. Just ahead, why sanctions have now been imposed on that country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: When the White House issued sanctions against Syria this week, President Bush called the Arab nation an unusual and extraordinary threat. But what do Americans really know about Syria, other than the alleged ties to terrorism?
Well, it is a country about the size of North Dakota, with more than 17 1/2 million people. Seventy-four percent of the population is Sunni Muslim. And a fifth of all Syrians, 20 percent, are unemployed. Syria's economy is rich with oil and petroleum products, which account for 77 percent of all exports. The primary recipient of Syria's exports is Germany.
Syria's president says he is not about to expel any Palestinian militant groups from his country, though. And President Bashar Assad is challenging the basis of the sanctions the U.S. has slapped on Syria.
Our senior international correspondent, Brent Sadler, joins us live here in Atlanta to talk about those sanctions -- welcome back to America, for at least a short time.
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to be here.
COSTELLO: Tell us about Syria and how serious is the problem with terrorism there, as it applies to the United States?
SADLER: Well, the Syrians have been at loggerheads with the U.S. policy in the Middle East for many, many decades now. And what we're seeing with the slapping of these new, tighter economic sanctions -- don't forget, Syria's been one of six countries on the U.S. list of terror sponsoring nations -- is to tighten the screws on Syria. Diplomatically speaking, the two countries are still speaking. There's still a full U.S. Embassy in Damascus, the Syrian campaign.
But in terms of policy, both Bashar al-Assad, the current president, and his father, Hafez al-Assad, have really been struggling very hard against the U.S. policies for many decades. And really what's happening next door as far as Iraq is concerned, is really galvanizing further U.S. pressure on Syria to come on board with what the U.S. wider picture is for the region.
COSTELLO: So why won't Syria expel this terrorist group that the U.S. wants it to?
SADLER: Well, there are two terrorist groups there, in terms of how the U.S. and Israel sees it -- Islamic Jihad and Hamas. One of the top political leaders of Hamas is in Damascus and one of the top Islamic Jihad leaders is in Damascus. The Syrians see these not as active terrorists. They see them as political exponents of those groups. And they don't see them as terrorists in the way that the U.S. and Israel regards them. They are seen by the Syrians as legitimate resistance organizations fighting the Israeli occupation and fighting the Palestinians in that struggle for their own homeland.
COSTELLO: But Syria surely knows how the Americans feel about these groups.
Isn't there some wiggle room in there somewhere?
SADLER: There has not been any wiggle room whatsoever. Both the previous president and the current president today have been very hard-line in saying that they will not change their policies. You know, they stand for what they stand for. The United States needs to readjust its policy vis-a-vis its support for Israel, which the Syrians see as one-sided. And it's the U.S., say the Syrians, that is pouring oil on the fire of the Middle East by its policies in Iraq and by its support of Israel, in terms of the Palestinian conflict.
Very difficult.
COSTELLO: President Assad came out and said, what, that America was now an unsettling factor in the Middle East? So the war of words is at least escalating.
What will happen next? Any guesses?
SADLER: Well, look over the past 10 years. Back in the first Gulf War to liberate Kuwait, Hafez al-Assad, the old president, the late president, supported the U.S.-led coalition to oust Saddam Hussein's forces from Kuwait. There were pretty good relations. There was a time when President Clinton visited in the mid-'90s, the first time a U.S. president had visited the Syrian capital in 20 years.
But really the spiral of deteriorating relationships has picked up speed since the invasion of Iraq. The Syrians were diametrically opposed to that and they continue to be opposed to that and continue to say to U.S. officials we told you so.
COSTELLO: Well, I have to ask you this question, because many Americans suspect that Syrian terrorists are going into Iraq and creating many of the problems there.
True? Not true? Any evidence?
SADLER: This is something that Bashar al-Assad, the president, has said look, show us the proof. Give us one name, one passport, and we'll tie it down. There is a long border between Syria and neighboring Iraq. It's pretty much impossible for the Syrians, they say, to control. They've offered joint patrols with the U.S. That's not been picked up by the U.S. side. The Syrians say they're getting a bad rap, it's not fair, there should be dialogue, there shouldn't be economic sanctions. And they're saying that U.S. interests in the region will suffer as a result of these new sanctions, $300 million worth of bilateral trade between the two nations. But really it's the image of the U.S. -- of the United States in the region that the U.S. is not only occupying Iraq and having enormous difficulties there right now, but also further pressuring another Arab state.
COSTELLO: Brent Sadler, thank you for joining DAYBREAK this morning and have a great trip back to Beirut.
SADLER: Great to be here.
Thank you.
COSTELLO: Thank you, Brent.
Ahead in the next half hour of DAYBREAK, Donald Rumsfeld in Baghdad this morning. A live report on the defense secretary's surprise visit coming your way next.
And on the defense of soldiers charged in the prison abuse scandal look for a way out.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: The defense secretary arrives in Iraq for an unannounced visit. He's there right now.
This is DAYBREAK for Thursday, May 13.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Here are the latest headlines for you now.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in Iraq this morning. It is a surprise visit and there is speculation Rumsfeld may be trying to boost troop morale amidst a spreading prisoner abuse scandal. With the defense secretary is General Richard Myers, who is chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.
India's prime minister will meet today with the country's president to offer his resignation. Prime Minister Atal Vajpayee's party conceded defeat in parliamentary elections.
In money news, the Walt Disney Company is reporting a 71 percent jump in profits. The company cites growth in attendance at theme parks, global sales of DVDs and strength in its cable operations.
In sports, the Miami Heat beat the Indiana Pacers 100-88. That ties the best of seven Eastern Conference Semifinal series at two games apiece.
In culture, she took the test, raised her hand and now it is official. Former "Baywatch" babe Pamela Anderson now a U.S. citizen. But Anderson says she will keep her Canadian citizenship, as well.
And in weather, talk about floodwaters, heavy rains sweep through southern Louisiana, causing street closures and power outages -- Chad.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Let's get more on this morning's big surprise -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's unannounced visit to Iraq.
Karl Penhaul live in Baghdad to tell us more -- hello, Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Carol.
The exact details of this trip and what he'll be doing during his visit are being kept fairly closely under wraps for the obvious security reasons. But Donald Rumsfeld touched down here in Baghdad a short while ago. And, of course, we're going to expect him, in his capacity as defense secretary, to be meeting as many of the U.S. troops as he can, certainly to try and raise morale, boost morale there and shake hands and pat as many backs as he can there.
Obviously, though, of course, he is going to face questions over the prison abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib Prison and will likely be meeting people to find out more details here on the ground and fill in the blanks, and also to find out a little bit more how the court- martials of the seven soldiers who so far have been announced will be put on court-martial -- he'll be finding out about how those court- martials will be conducted, I would guess -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Karl Penhaul live in Baghdad this morning.
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Aired May 13, 2004 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
I want to welcome our international viewers, as well.
We are following breaking news at this hour. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld making a surprise visit in Baghdad. He's there right now. So let's head live to Baghdad for more details from Karl Penhaul -- good morning, Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there.
Donald Rumsfeld touching down a short while ago. We understand he's here with Joint Chiefs Chairman Richard Myers, as well. A day long visit, from what we're told, but, again, the exact details of this trip being kept pretty closely under wraps for security reasons.
But obviously as secretary of defense, we would expect him in the course of the day to meet with as many American troops as he possibly can and also we don't expect that the scandal of the prison abuse at Abu Ghraib will be far away from attention. Although on the plane and according to reports talking to reporters that he took with him on the 15 hour flight from Washington, he did say that he wasn't in Iraq to come and pour water on a fire. Though, nevertheless, we would expect that he is going to face some tough questions about that Abu Ghraib Prison scandal.
COSTELLO: No doubt, Karl.
What do the troops want to hear from Mr. Rumsfeld?
PENHAUL: It depends. On the one hand, the troops that I've been speaking to over the last few days feel that to some extent their morale has been undermined by the prison scandal at Abu Ghraib. So they'll probably be looking for some kind of assurances there from the defense secretary.
Also, as well, the deaths of American servicemen continue. Today, another American serviceman died here in Baghdad in a roadside bomb. We now calculate that 777 U.S. troops have died since this conflict began. So they'll be wanting to know, many of them, I would guess, how soon they can go back and see their friends, families and loved ones, and also reassurances that they'll have the equipment to do the job here and stay safe while they're here.
COSTELLO: Going back to the prison investigation, Karl, nobody seems to know who exactly was in charge.
Will Donald Rumsfeld get some answers today, do you think?
PENHAUL: I'm not sure Donald Rumsfeld is here to look for answers to those questions. One would expect that he, as secretary of defense, knows the answers there or certainly as secretary of defense should know the answers there. I guess he would face questioning from possibly members of the Iraqi Governing Council, if he meets with those. I'm sure also he'll be briefing Ambassador Bremer on the way forward and also receiving details, possibly, in the preparations for the court-martials that are planned.
We now hear that seven U.S. soldiers are going to be court- martialed for these offenses in the prison. Charges there ranging from dereliction of duty to abuse and maltreatment of detainees.
COSTELLO: Karl Penhaul live in Baghdad this morning.
We want to get some more insight on Mr. Rumsfeld's surprise visit to Iraq.
On the phone live from Chicago, military analyst General David Grange.
Good morning, General Grange.
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, U.S. ARMY (RET.): Good morning to you.
COSTELLO: Why did Donald Rumsfeld decide to go to Iraq?
GRANGE: Well, this is a priority issue, obviously, for the Department of Defense. He wants to get on site, show command presence and I think talk to soldiers, the good soldiers. He won't talk to anybody involved in the cases. But he'll talk to the good soldiers in the units to show hey, look, everybody's doing a good job over there. We have a few problems, but the majority are doing well. And then I think he'll also talk to some of the Iraqi leaders to explain the concern of the United States and that the focus is still to get on with the mission and accomplish it.
COSTELLO: He brought some Pentagon lawyers with him.
Why?
GRANGE: I think it's always because for advice, guidance to evaluate the situation, to ensure that things are done in a fair manner. The legal process in the military is similar to in the civilian sector, to ensure that things are in progress the right way.
COSTELLO: And when he talks to the troops, you went into a little bit of what he might say to them. But what do they need to hear? GRANGE: I think they need to hear that this is a concern for the highest leadership in the United States government, that they are (UNINTELLIGIBLE) for speaking on behalf of those troops, because regardless of who is found guilty of what, there definitely was mistakes made and I think there'll be an apology. But that he's focused on still accomplishing what they set out to do on a transition for the Iraqi country to something different. And I think he wants to say they're going to stay the course, they're not going to let this ruin the overall objective. And I think he wants to do that face to face so they can see it in his eyes.
COSTELLO: As far as the Abu Ghraib Prison, nobody seems to know who was giving the orders there. Might Donald Rumsfeld look into that, ask questions of General Miller, the general now in charge of that prison?
GRANGE: Well, I'm sure he'll be talking to General Miller and other senior commanders. But, you know, the confusion on who was giving orders and all that at the -- when we listen to the testimonies in the Senate, will be concern over whether it's TCON, they call it, tactical control. And even if you have one organization that has tactical control over another, all that means is that that organization can direct operations. It doesn't have anything to do with the training of discipline that the parent organization always has as an inherent responsibility.
So I think you're going to see that there is responsibilities on both lines, but for different things. And that'll come out as they complete the investigation and they go through the legal process.
COSTELLO: All right, Gen. David Grange, many thanks to you.
And we apologize about the audio quality of that phone call.
We're going to say good-bye to our international viewers right now. But, of course, viewers in the United States and Japan and Canada, please stay with us.
Other headlines we're following this Thursday morning, Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee will resign in a few hours after his party was defeated in parliamentary elections. The new party in power will be headed by the Italian born Sonya Ghandi, who was widow of Rajid Ghandi.
In money news, The Gap is blowing the whistle on itself, saying many of its overseas workers are mistreated. The company issued what it calls a social responsibility report, vowing to improve conditions.
In sports, Sacramento beat Minnesota in second round NBA play-off action. The final score, Kings 87, Timberwolves 81. The series now tied at two games apiece.
In culture, last week we said good-bye to friends. Tonight, we bid adieu to "Frasier," which started as a spin-off of "Cheers" and has lasted 11 successful seasons -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: American troops in Karbala are battling the militia of radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr today. The two forces clashed overnight in Najaf in Iraq. In the meantime, al-Sadr is sending mixed signals on efforts to bring peace to the city.
CNN's Jane Arraf is with the U.S. troops in Najaf.
She joins us live this morning -- hello, Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.
Those clashes you mentioned were the closest to the holy shrines since U.S. forces have got here. Now, they were still about almost a mile, three quarters of a mile from the Imam Ali Mosque, which is one of the holiest sites for Shia Muslims around the world. But they were on the edge of the holy cemetery, the cemetery that Shias all over the world aspire to be buried in. U.S. officials here say on a routine patrol on the highway near that cemetery, their patrol came under fire from rocket propelled grenades. They fired back, killing, they say, three suspected members of the Mahdi militia. They called in tanks and reinforcements, partly in response to a request for help from an Iraqi police station in the area. That firefight continued for about an hour last night -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Jane Arraf reporting live from Najaf, Iraq this morning.
Two more U.S. soldiers will be court-martialed for allegedly abusing Iraqis at the Abu Ghraib Prison.
Let's go live to D.C. and Bill Prasad.
He has the latest on the prisoner abuse scandal from the Washington angle -- good morning, Bill.
BILL PRASAD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Pornographic, disgusting and humiliating -- that's how senators describe the photos of prisoner abuse. It's still unclear if those photos will be released to the public, especially after the homicide that killed Nicholas Berg.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PRASAD (voice-over): Bag after bag filled with evidence of abuse against Iraqi detainees. Senators viewed about a thousand photographs and digital video, among them, pictures of a man beating his head against a wall; video of hooded men masturbating; and Iraqi women forced to bare their breasts.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very appalling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they were bad. They're all bad. PRASAD: Senior Republicans warned against making the pictures public because they say it may incite more violence against Americans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Err on the side of caution. I think at this time, it would not be wise to publish them.
PRASAD: Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz will testify at a Senate hearing today. He's expected to be questioned about the prison abuse scandal. Yesterday, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld promised justice.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: People will be punished at every level.
PRASAD: The body of slain American Nicholas Berg is now back in the U.S. A private memorial service is set for tomorrow. His sister Sarah spoke to reporters.
SARAH BERG: My family is devastated.
PRASAD: A group that says it has ties to al Qaeda taped the murder of the 26-year-old then put the images on the Web.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no justification for the brutal execution of Nicholas Berg. No justification whatsoever.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PRASAD: The FBI says it is now the leading investigative agency in this homicide.
Well, live in Washington, I'm Bill Prasad -- Carol, back to you.
COSTELLO: All right, thank you, Bill.
Interrogation techniques by U.S. intelligence officials are coming under question. The "New York Times" is reporting the CIA is using coercion in questioning some al Qaeda suspects. The "Times" reports, and I'm quoting here, "These techniques were authorized by a set of secret rules for interrogation of high level al Qaeda prisoners -- none known to be housed in Iraq -- that were endorsed by the Justice Department and the CIA."
Now, a year and a half ago, CNN visited the U.S. Army intelligence training center in Arizona. One interrogation instructor who worked in Afghanistan and did not want his identity revealed had this to say about the training there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to keep in mind that they're human. And if you do forget that, then you lose some of your best tools. You will be amazed at what a kind word and a cup of hot cocoa on a 15 degree night will get you as far as information.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Veteran intelligence officials say the large numbers of detainees in Iraq and Afghanistan are draining the supply of trained interrogators.
Just ahead on DAYBREAK, more on Donald Rumsfeld's surprise visit to Baghdad this morning.
And later, images of war, prisoner abuse, the killing of a hostage and flag draped coffins -- how much is too much for you? We'll have an in depth look.
This is DAYBREAK for Thursday, May 13.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Your news, money, weather and sports.
It's just about 6:15 Eastern.
Here's what's all new this morning.
U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in Baghdad right now for a surprise visit. He's being accompanied by General Richard Myers, who is, of course, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.
In Madison, Wisconsin this morning, there will be a pretrial conference for the college student who is accused of faking her own abduction. Audrey Seiler faces two misdemeanor counts in connection with her four day disappearance.
In money news, Maria Shriver is launching a line of jewelry promoting California landmarks -- for example, a charm bracelet featuring the Golden Gate Bridge. Some of the photos will -- or some of the profits, rather, will help the state promote trade with other countries.
In sports, the NCAA says 35 percent of male athletes admit to betting on college sports within the past year. For female athletes, the figure is 10 percent.
In culture, Disney will sell Michael Moore's controversial documentary "Fahrenheit 911" to the co-chairman of Miramax. Disney had blocked release of the film, which is critical of President Bush's handling of the terror attacks -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Those are the latest headlines for you.
The hot talker, or should we say the hot talkers of the morning, are more disgusting pictures from the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal and Donald Rumsfeld's visit to Baghdad this morning.
We tuned the dial to WTOP News Radio in Washington, D.C.
Judlyne Lilly live on the phone with us.
Good morning, Judlyne.
JUDLYNE LILLY, WTOP ANCHOR: Good morning, Carol.
How are you?
COSTELLO: I'm fine.
So the questions surrounding the prisoner abuse photos -- will the public ever see more of them or should they?
LILLY: Well, that's a big question that Congress is definitely wrestling with. The Pentagon doesn't think they should be open. But one congressman believes that if you just get them all out there now, maybe it'll be over soon. And that may not work because this information is coming out daily. It's coming out like a horrible torrent of dirty, filthy water. And as you keep going, the water isn't getting any cleaner or clearer.
So that may not work in keeping those pictures.
COSTELLO: Well, you know what, though, Judlyne? This has seemingly become another partisan disagreement, with Republicans saying that they should not release any more photos and Democrats, some Democrats saying they should release more photos.
LILLY: It is not as stridently and divisional bipartisan as other things have been on the Hill, mainly, I believe, because the congressman and the law makers have seen these pictures, the ones that the public has not seen. And they are even more menacing, as we have been told in earlier reports on CNN, even more menacing, even more horrible than the ones we have already seen.
So there is some political nature being made on this. But generally speaking, it's not as divisive as it generally is.
COSTELLO: Donald Rumsfeld is in Iraq this morning. We don't know exactly what he's doing there, but he is in Iraq and I suppose he'll be talking to troops later today.
What purpose will his visit serve? What's the talk in Washington?
LILLY: It looks like it's going to be a twofold sort of thing, the surprise visit that he makes to Baghdad. He's supporting the troops. He'll -- maybe he'll take a look at the scene of the crime at the prison and find out for himself, take a look at it, see what's going on exactly there for himself. And he can then determine whether or not he needs to go or what he needs to do to make the situation better for the prisoners, and, of course, for the troops that are serving in Iraq.
COSTELLO: And by that you mean whether or not he should resign or stay?
LILLY: Yes. Yes.
COSTELLO: All right, Judlyne Lilly reporting live for us from WTOP Radio in Washington, D.C.
Well, the Bush administration sends a message to Syria. Just ahead, why sanctions have now been imposed on that country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: When the White House issued sanctions against Syria this week, President Bush called the Arab nation an unusual and extraordinary threat. But what do Americans really know about Syria, other than the alleged ties to terrorism?
Well, it is a country about the size of North Dakota, with more than 17 1/2 million people. Seventy-four percent of the population is Sunni Muslim. And a fifth of all Syrians, 20 percent, are unemployed. Syria's economy is rich with oil and petroleum products, which account for 77 percent of all exports. The primary recipient of Syria's exports is Germany.
Syria's president says he is not about to expel any Palestinian militant groups from his country, though. And President Bashar Assad is challenging the basis of the sanctions the U.S. has slapped on Syria.
Our senior international correspondent, Brent Sadler, joins us live here in Atlanta to talk about those sanctions -- welcome back to America, for at least a short time.
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to be here.
COSTELLO: Tell us about Syria and how serious is the problem with terrorism there, as it applies to the United States?
SADLER: Well, the Syrians have been at loggerheads with the U.S. policy in the Middle East for many, many decades now. And what we're seeing with the slapping of these new, tighter economic sanctions -- don't forget, Syria's been one of six countries on the U.S. list of terror sponsoring nations -- is to tighten the screws on Syria. Diplomatically speaking, the two countries are still speaking. There's still a full U.S. Embassy in Damascus, the Syrian campaign.
But in terms of policy, both Bashar al-Assad, the current president, and his father, Hafez al-Assad, have really been struggling very hard against the U.S. policies for many decades. And really what's happening next door as far as Iraq is concerned, is really galvanizing further U.S. pressure on Syria to come on board with what the U.S. wider picture is for the region.
COSTELLO: So why won't Syria expel this terrorist group that the U.S. wants it to?
SADLER: Well, there are two terrorist groups there, in terms of how the U.S. and Israel sees it -- Islamic Jihad and Hamas. One of the top political leaders of Hamas is in Damascus and one of the top Islamic Jihad leaders is in Damascus. The Syrians see these not as active terrorists. They see them as political exponents of those groups. And they don't see them as terrorists in the way that the U.S. and Israel regards them. They are seen by the Syrians as legitimate resistance organizations fighting the Israeli occupation and fighting the Palestinians in that struggle for their own homeland.
COSTELLO: But Syria surely knows how the Americans feel about these groups.
Isn't there some wiggle room in there somewhere?
SADLER: There has not been any wiggle room whatsoever. Both the previous president and the current president today have been very hard-line in saying that they will not change their policies. You know, they stand for what they stand for. The United States needs to readjust its policy vis-a-vis its support for Israel, which the Syrians see as one-sided. And it's the U.S., say the Syrians, that is pouring oil on the fire of the Middle East by its policies in Iraq and by its support of Israel, in terms of the Palestinian conflict.
Very difficult.
COSTELLO: President Assad came out and said, what, that America was now an unsettling factor in the Middle East? So the war of words is at least escalating.
What will happen next? Any guesses?
SADLER: Well, look over the past 10 years. Back in the first Gulf War to liberate Kuwait, Hafez al-Assad, the old president, the late president, supported the U.S.-led coalition to oust Saddam Hussein's forces from Kuwait. There were pretty good relations. There was a time when President Clinton visited in the mid-'90s, the first time a U.S. president had visited the Syrian capital in 20 years.
But really the spiral of deteriorating relationships has picked up speed since the invasion of Iraq. The Syrians were diametrically opposed to that and they continue to be opposed to that and continue to say to U.S. officials we told you so.
COSTELLO: Well, I have to ask you this question, because many Americans suspect that Syrian terrorists are going into Iraq and creating many of the problems there.
True? Not true? Any evidence?
SADLER: This is something that Bashar al-Assad, the president, has said look, show us the proof. Give us one name, one passport, and we'll tie it down. There is a long border between Syria and neighboring Iraq. It's pretty much impossible for the Syrians, they say, to control. They've offered joint patrols with the U.S. That's not been picked up by the U.S. side. The Syrians say they're getting a bad rap, it's not fair, there should be dialogue, there shouldn't be economic sanctions. And they're saying that U.S. interests in the region will suffer as a result of these new sanctions, $300 million worth of bilateral trade between the two nations. But really it's the image of the U.S. -- of the United States in the region that the U.S. is not only occupying Iraq and having enormous difficulties there right now, but also further pressuring another Arab state.
COSTELLO: Brent Sadler, thank you for joining DAYBREAK this morning and have a great trip back to Beirut.
SADLER: Great to be here.
Thank you.
COSTELLO: Thank you, Brent.
Ahead in the next half hour of DAYBREAK, Donald Rumsfeld in Baghdad this morning. A live report on the defense secretary's surprise visit coming your way next.
And on the defense of soldiers charged in the prison abuse scandal look for a way out.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: The defense secretary arrives in Iraq for an unannounced visit. He's there right now.
This is DAYBREAK for Thursday, May 13.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Here are the latest headlines for you now.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in Iraq this morning. It is a surprise visit and there is speculation Rumsfeld may be trying to boost troop morale amidst a spreading prisoner abuse scandal. With the defense secretary is General Richard Myers, who is chairman of the joint chiefs of staff.
India's prime minister will meet today with the country's president to offer his resignation. Prime Minister Atal Vajpayee's party conceded defeat in parliamentary elections.
In money news, the Walt Disney Company is reporting a 71 percent jump in profits. The company cites growth in attendance at theme parks, global sales of DVDs and strength in its cable operations.
In sports, the Miami Heat beat the Indiana Pacers 100-88. That ties the best of seven Eastern Conference Semifinal series at two games apiece.
In culture, she took the test, raised her hand and now it is official. Former "Baywatch" babe Pamela Anderson now a U.S. citizen. But Anderson says she will keep her Canadian citizenship, as well.
And in weather, talk about floodwaters, heavy rains sweep through southern Louisiana, causing street closures and power outages -- Chad.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Let's get more on this morning's big surprise -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's unannounced visit to Iraq.
Karl Penhaul live in Baghdad to tell us more -- hello, Karl.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Carol.
The exact details of this trip and what he'll be doing during his visit are being kept fairly closely under wraps for the obvious security reasons. But Donald Rumsfeld touched down here in Baghdad a short while ago. And, of course, we're going to expect him, in his capacity as defense secretary, to be meeting as many of the U.S. troops as he can, certainly to try and raise morale, boost morale there and shake hands and pat as many backs as he can there.
Obviously, though, of course, he is going to face questions over the prison abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib Prison and will likely be meeting people to find out more details here on the ground and fill in the blanks, and also to find out a little bit more how the court- martials of the seven soldiers who so far have been announced will be put on court-martial -- he'll be finding out about how those court- martials will be conducted, I would guess -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Karl Penhaul live in Baghdad this morning.
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