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American Morning

Donald Rumsfeld Visits Baghdad; Interview With Senator Edward Kennedy; Colon Cancer Treatment

Aired May 13, 2004 - 9:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in Iraq today. His sudden trip a response to the prison abuse scandal there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: My first choice would be to release them, but it's my understanding that at the present time the people who have an obligation to take into account privacy issues, legal requirements under privacy laws and Geneva Convention are advising against.

HEMMER: In a moment, a live report from Baghdad.

Also, did the FBI offer to help Nick Berg out of the country before he was captured and killed? Today, two different versions of events there.

And more massive tornadoes dropping out of the sky, rolling across the prairie on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody.

Stories that we're following as well this morning, a variety of reactions coming from members of Congress after they saw additional photos of Iraqi prisoner abuse. Lots of those images are apparently much more graphic than what the public has seen so far. This morning, we're going to talk to Senator Ted Kennedy about those pictures. That's just ahead.

HEMMER: Also this hour, we'll talk about Secretary Rumsfeld's visit to Iraq with retired Major General Don Shepperd in a moment here out of Arizona today.

O'BRIEN: And Mr. Cafferty, good morning again.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning again.

The e-mail question of the day is, what is inappropriate when it comes to interrogating prisoners during wartime? AM@CNN.com, and we'll read some of your arguments about this a little bit later.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you, Jack. Let's get right to our top stories this morning.

U.S. forces in Karla, Iraq, engaged in a fierce battle with supporters of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadder. Witnesses say smoke is rising over the city's mosques. You can see them there, considered one of the Shiites most sacred shrines. News agencies are reporting that insurgents attacked an American tank with rocket-propelled grenades. There are no worlds of any casualties as of yet.

Three U.S. soldiers have now been formally referred for court- martial in connection with the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. The military announced that Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick and Sergeant Javal Davis will face courts-martial. Charges include mistreating detainees at Abu Ghraib prison and dereliction of duty. Specialist Jeremy Sivits is set to be one of the first -- or rather the first to go before the military tribunal in Baghdad next week. At least four other soldiers have been charged.

In North Dakota, the man accused in the kidnapping of that college student, Dru Sjodin, has been charged by a federal grand jury. Fifty-one-year-old Alfonso Rodriguez pleaded not guilty yesterday to a federal charge of kidnapping, resulting in death. Prosecutors moved the case to federal court to allow authorities to pursue, if they choose, the death penalty if, in fact, Rodriguez is convicted.

On the campaign trail, the focus is on domestic issues today. President Bush will be visiting a high school in West Virginia this afternoon. The president is promoting and defending his record on education.

Meanwhile, Democratic presidential candidate Senator John Kerry focusing on health care today. The senator is wrapping up a four-day campaign swing with a visit to Arkansas.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: A prediction from Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld on his way to an unannounced trip to Baghdad. Secretary Rumsfeld telling reporters that he expects the Iraqi prisoner scandal to get worse in the days ahead. He also says he supports releasing those unreleased images of prisoner abuse that Congress got a look at yesterday. Lawyers, however, apparently have a different view at this time.

To Baghdad, and Karl Penhaul, with more on the secretary's visit there.

Karl, good afternoon.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Bill.

Yes, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld arriving here early afternoon Baghdad time. He said on the plane that he didn't want to come and pour water on the fire of the prison abuse scandal, but he's likely to be facing many questions about that during his visit here. As far as those new photos, the unpublished photos about that prison abuse scandal, he said, as you say, that he supported releasing them, but added some caveats to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: As far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy to release them all to the public and to get it behind us. But, at the present time, I don't know anyone in the legal shop in any element of the government that's recommending it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PENHAUL: Pentagon officials have said that during his agenda today, that Rumsfeld will be meeting U.S. military field commanders. He'll also be meeting ordinary troops to pat them on the back and try to boost morale at this critical time -- Bill.

HEMMER: Karl Penhaul, thanks for that. More in Baghdad a bit later.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: As Secretary Rumsfeld visits Iraq, the storm over the prisoner abuse scandal continues to swirl in Washington, D.C. Lawmakers got a look at unreleased images of abuse yesterday at the Capitol. The Senate's top Republican had this reaction...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: What we saw is appalling. It is consistent with the photos that you've seen in the press to date. They go beyond that in many ways in terms of the various activities that are depicted. Some totally unrelated to the Abu Ghraib prison or to the prisoners there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Senator Frist also said the images should be kept under wraps. Here to discuss the abuse scandal is Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts.

Nice to see you, Senator. Thanks for being with us. Good morning to you.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: You've opted, I'm told, not to view these images. Why is that?

KENNEDY: Well, I didn't think that I really needed to see additional kind of pictures. I've read the Taguba report by General Taguba, which has outlined all of the abuses that took place in the -- not only in this prison, but in prisons all over Iraq. And I've also read the Red Cross report that outlines in very graphic details these kinds of abuses.

What is a principal concern to a number of us and to all Americans is that this administration was on notice not just when these pictures were released, but also in January and February of this year. They were on notice by the Red Cross, they were on notice by other kinds of warnings in the State Department, and also by Paul Wolfowitz and to Paul Bremer, and no action was really taken.

And what we are continuing to see is blunder after blunder in Iraq. And what is happening is that we've lost our position as leader of the free world in terms of human rights. We've lost our -- now, we are the most hated nation in the world.

This war is being made more complicated for our troops. The battle against terror is more difficult. The dangers of another strike here in the United States by al Qaeda has increased. And we have seen...

O'BRIEN: Do you support then -- excuse me for interrupting you, but do you support then releasing those photos to the public?

KENNEDY: Yes, certainly, I would support them, consistent with the code of military conduct, that they ought to be out and they should be released. The more the information gets out, the more extensive these hearings, the more knowledge that we have, the better off we are.

Let me just say, finally, on the issue of this kind of heavy- handedness by the administration in terms of the torture of these prisoners, the reason we have Geneva accords is, number one, even those these prisoners in so many incidents are bad and have done bad things that we don't want to have the same morality as those individuals, but secondly, and more important, as John McCain has pointed out time and time again, information that has gotten from torture to prisoners is not good information. It is not the way to gain the kind of intelligence that you need.

And, thirdly, the reason that we've accepted the Geneva Conventions is because we don't want these other adversaries doing to American troops what we have seen these MPs and others doing to the Iraqis. That's the basic and fundamental reason.

O'BRIEN: There are some that would say when you look at what happened to the young man, Nicholas Berg, that actually the enemy is already doing that to civilians...

KENNEDY: Well, that was just a horrific act of bestiality and butchering. And our hearts go out to their families. And this is a part of the al Qaeda.

We understand that we're going to have to deal with a very tough adversary. But the real question is how that is done consistently. The point about this matter is the administration was on notice and the steps were not taken, and the United States is paying the price for that. Someone has to be held accountable besides the seven soldiers that are now going to be court-martialed.

O'BRIEN: Here's what you said on May 11. I want to read a little bit of a comment about this abuse at the prison. "Shamefully now we learn that Saddam's torture chambers have reopened under new management, United States management." There are some critics who say you went way over the line on that, and, in fact, that was a woeful exaggeration. How do you respond to that?

KENNEDY: That is part of the Republican attack machine, and I reject it. What we should have done is knocked down that prison when we occupied Iraq in the first place, or changed it and altered it, and changed it into a community, a school, or a training education center. But the idea that the United States is holding more than 7,000 prisoners in there, and we've seen these abuses, we deplore these abuses.

Let's get to the root issue in question, and that is the kind of actions that were taken and those that were responsible. It isn't only those seven, but it's also higher-ups. And let's get to judge that part.

But the whole Iraqi situation is just blunder after blunder after blunder. There was no post war. The soldiers have performed brilliantly, but with all of these kinds of conditions, the soldiers are paying the prices. The soldiers, make no mistake about it, with all of this kind of activity, the soldiers are the ones on the frontlines that are paying the price for this kind of failed planning, this kind of failed training, this kind of failed oversight.

And someone ought to be held accountable besides five or six privates. This starts much higher up, and the administration ought to deal with that.

O'BRIEN: Let's shift gears for a moment. I know one of the things that you're doing on the Hill today is to commemorate with a press conference later this afternoon, the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education.

KENNEDY: This is an enormously important time in terms of the American history, because on May 17, on Monday, we'll celebrate the 50th anniversary of the decision of the Brown v. Board of Education, that basically said separate societies, based upon a race are not what is part of the American tradition.

O'BRIEN: So then weigh in for me...

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: This last January...

O'BRIEN: Give me a sense, 50 years later, how does it look to you? Much improved or not improved at all?

KENNEDY: Well, I think we have made progress, but we have a great deal of additional progress to make on this. We made some progress.

We clearly saw that the Brown v. the Board of Education opened the way for the great progress that we made in the early 1960s, 1964, with the 1964 voting -- Public Accommodations Act and the non- discrimination in employment, and '65 was the Voting Rights Act. So we've made very important progress, and we've made some progress in the schools. But we haven't made enough. And we want to celebrate what has been achieved and also be motivated to take this further.

And what is very significant at this time is the fact that this was done in a bipartisan way. Republicans and Democrats worked to free ourselves from the forms of discrimination. I wish we could get back to that same kind of mood, same atmosphere I've seen. When we have worked together on important national kinds of issues, we've made enormous progress. And that is an atmosphere and climate that we need to have to continue to knock down the walls of the discrimination in our country and to make progress in other areas as well.

O'BRIEN: We'll hear that press conference at 2:30 this afternoon, I think it is on Capitol Hill.

KENNEDY: Thank you very much.

O'BRIEN: Senator Kennedy, nice to see you. Thanks, as always.

KENNEDY: Thank you very, very much.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: In a moment here, the family of Nicholas Berg expressing anger over that death, and some is aimed to the FBI. Live to his home town in a moment and what the FBI has to say as well.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, a man who went missing with former hostage Thomas Hamill in Iraq, he has still not been heard from. We're going to hear, though, from those who are close to him back home.

HEMMER: Also, hold on tight. More dramatic videotape out of Kansas this week. Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: There are new questions this morning about the case of Nicholas Berg, the American civilian beheaded by Islamic militants. In Berg's hometown, outside of Philadelphia, those questions weighing on the minds of many.

Last night, Berg's father put a sign in front of their home saying, "War is not the answer." There is also anger from his family, who claim the U.S. government may have contributed to the circumstances that led to his death. Reaction from Maria Hinojosa in the hometown of West Chester, Pennsylvania.

Good morning.

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN URBAN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

A very emotional morning here in West Chester, Pennsylvania. Michael Berg, Nick Berg's father, emerged from three days seclusion finally to speak about his son. He says, "The al Qaeda who had him didn't know what they were doing. They killed their best friend. My son went to Iraq not to tear down but to build." He said, "He went there to help, not to hurt."

But for this family, there is only hurt and very deep pain.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA (voice-over): The FBI says its agents offered Nick Berg safe passage out of Iraq, warning the young man that Iraq was a volatile place for an unprotected American. Michael Berg, his father, says his son told him he turned down the offer of a flight down because the road to the airport was too dangerous to travel.

On Wednesday, though, the family had to deal with the unfortunate reality of death, a father meeting with a funeral director to discuss laying his 26-year-old son to rest. A family in mourning, but now also angry. Not only at hooded murderers, but at the U.S. government for denying that Nick Berg was ever detained by U.S. authorities in Iraq.

MICHAEL BERG, NICK BERG'S FATHER: That's really what cost my son his life, was the fact that the United States government saw fit to keep him in custody for 13 days without any of his due process or civil rights, and release him when they were good and ready.

HINOJOSA: Brother David also broke his silence, saying that Nicholas had sent e-mails from Iraq about being held in U.S. custody. While detained in Iraq, the Berg family sued Donald Rumsfeld and the Department of Defense on April 5, demanding Nicholas' release. One day later, Nick Berg was let go and the suit was dropped.

SARA BERG, NICK BERG'S SISTER: My family is devastated.

HINOJOSA: His sister spoke briefly and emotionally. The sorrow etched on her face. Nick Berg was, according to friends, a humanitarian and an adventurer.

BRUCE HAUSER, NEIGHBOR OF BERGS: He saw it as an opportunity to drum up some business for his own company. And knowing Nick, when he got there, Nick is all about rebuilding, you know? And I'm certain that Nick had in his mind that he's going to do something to help.

HINOJOSA: But Nicholas Berg never fulfilled his promise to himself. Lost amid the confusion of war in the post-9/11 new world order that his father, searching for blame, tries to understand.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: Now, CNN has spoken to some of the people who saw Nick Berg in the last days before he disappeared. They said that Nick Berg told them that he had been taken in by the police in Mosul and then handed over to U.S. authorities. He said to these people that he was in a coalition place, he was being held there, where there were Syrians, Iranians, Jordanians. This, of course, coming on the heels of the family getting prepared for a memorial that will be held tomorrow. They're saying that it's going to be private only for friends and family of Nick Berg -- Bill.

HEMMER: Whatever the case and whatever the truth there, an absolute brutal end to the life of a very young man. Thanks, Maria.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: More remarkable pictures now from a massive tornado. This time it was in Kansas. It happened yesterday. Check out the twister as it rips across the countryside with pretty amazing force.

It tossed debris in its wake, damaged three homes, shattered windows, and blew off rooftops. Hundreds of people took shelter in basements and storm cellars as it tore through the town of Attica, which is near the border with Oklahoma. Fortunately, we are happy to say nobody was actually hurt.

Still to come this morning, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld makes a surprise visit to Iraq and explains why the Pentagon doesn't want the latest pictures of prison abuse released to the public. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Time to check in with Jack and the Question of the Day.

Hello.

CAFFERTY: Hi there.

While we all collectively expressed some shock and outrage at the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, a lot of psychologist say that they're shocked that we're shocked. Mistreatment of prisoners during wartime nothing new, it's happened in every war that's ever been fought. The difference might be this time we have all of those pictures to look at.

And there's another difference. The government has argued that the war on terrorism sometimes require the suspension of civil liberties.

Well, if it's OK to change the rules for us here at home, why shouldn't it be OK for the enemy as well? The question this morning is this: what's inappropriate interrogation technique in a time of war?

Roy in Atlantic Beach offers this: "Let's spend a billion from the new funding for Iraq and develop a chemical way to get at the truth. I see a science solution to interrogation, the Kobe Bryant, the JonBenet question. Why not?"

Jeff in Pittsburgh: "Some perspective, please. The abuse photos were abuse, not torture, not atrocity. Have some scale. The filmed beheading of a completely innocent conscious human is vastly different than a picture taken of a naked terrorist being humiliated with panties on his head. If we can't understand the moral differences here, then we've lost the war on terror."

Edwin in Toronto: "Effective interrogation does not require contact of the prisoner. The most effective form of information extraction is in atmosphere. What kind of procedural conditions did Iraqis go through during Saddam Hussein's era? Orchestrate those conditions, and by association you can create an atmosphere that a detainee has learned to fear, and then exploit it."

Thomas in Monroe, New York: "It's inappropriate to do anything you wouldn't want broadcast with video on the evening news."

One more batch of these.

HEMMER: A lot of response, huh?

CAFFERTY: Yes, 700, 800 letters, I would guess.

HEMMER: A lot of those coming in said we were overdoing it on this story. Do you get that sense or not?

CAFFERTY: Well, it's not really the question we asked this morning. Maybe that is a good one to do tomorrow. We overdo it on every story. That's what we do.

We find a story and we just write it until the thing drops dead of exhaustion. That's what we do, whether it's Kobe Bryant, or the war. I mean, that's what we do. We find a story and just beat it into submission.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.

Conan O'Brien talking last night. Secretary Rumsfeld is in Iraq today. Last night, taking a few shots at secretary of defense. Have a look and a listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONAN O'BRIEN, TALK SHOW HOST: Today, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld -- here's a cheery fell -- Donald Rumsfeld told senators that the Geneva Convention on prisoner rights applies in Iraq but not for prisoners held in Guantanamo Bay. That's what he said, yeah. When asked what the difference was, Rumsfeld said nobody has pictures of Guantanamo Bay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Jack, right to your point.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

HEMMER: In a moment here, more on the secretary of defense visit in Baghdad. And the story about a man who went missing with former hostage Thomas Hamill still not heard from in more than a month. We'll hear from those close to him back home in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody. Opening bell in a few seconds.

Meanwhile, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in Iraq today. The wires are reporting that he's at the prison, Abu Ghraib, at this moment. We'll get to the Pentagon and Barbara Starr in a few seconds here.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we're going to talk about the military strategy in Iraq with retired Major General Don Shepperd. Where does the U.S. go now in light of the prisoner abuse scandal?

HEMMER: All right.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

HEMMER: Top stories here at 9:30 in New York.

The fallout from the prisoner abuse scandal continues, with lawmakers anxious to find those responsible. Members of Congress spending yesterday afternoon looking at hundreds of digital images. So far, three U.S. soldiers face courts-martial for the mistreatment of inmates. But some lawmakers say they are not the only ones responsible for it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: The administration was on notice and the steps were not taken. And the United States is paying the price for that. Someone has to be held accountable besides the seven soldiers that are now going to be court-martialed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Senator Kennedy talking to Soledad just about 25 minutes ago. It's still not clear whether or not the new photos will be made available to the public.

The FBI says Nick Berg refused to leave Iraq just weeks before he was abducted and killed by Islamic insurgents. Officials in Baghdad say they met with the 26-year-old Berg three times while he was in custody with the Iraqi police. They deny that Berg was held in U.S. custody before he disappeared in early April, despite claims to the contrary by his family.

Israel has launched new missile strikes in Gaza. Palestinian sources say two Israeli helicopter attacks have left at least 10 Palestinians dead. This week's violence in Gaza claiming the lives of at least 33 Palestinians and at least 11 Israelis, and it continues yet again today. Health news now. An interesting new study from British doctors showing mothers to be who eat more fish in the later stages of pregnancy can increase the growth of their fetuses. Scientists found the more fish that woman eats 32 weeks in pregnancy, the lower the rate of restricted growth in the baby. But there are still certain guidelines of the amount of fish that pregnant women should consume.

I will consume my partner, the expert, later on.

In Ohio, an unwelcomed guest at a restaurant. A dazed deer leaped through the front window. The deer was out of control yesterday, nervously jumping around, breaking the furniture.

She tried to get out of that restaurant. Animal control officers came and rescued that animal. You're up to date, 9:32.

O'BRIEN: I'm glad they can rescue -- the poor animals, they get so panicked, and, of course, they can't figure out what to do.

HEMMER: Are you eating fish?

O'BRIEN: Now I am. Just what I want, two really big babies. That will be fun.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Well, according to witnesses, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is getting a firsthand look at the place that's causing so much controversy across this country and around the world as well. Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has details for us.

Of course, Barbara, this involves new word on where the secretary is right now this morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Soledad. The secretary now, by all accounts, visiting Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. He is accompanied on this surprise visit by General Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Now, Rumsfeld has told reporters on the way over to Iraq on that 15-hour flight from Washington to Baghdad that he is going to wait for the investigations to be finished before he comes to a conclusion about whether the abuse is reflective of a systemic problem or just an aberration by the soldiers. He's also not acknowledging that the Geneva Convention was violated.

He says he can't do that right now because there are court cases, there's a military justice process, and he wants to make sure there is no undue command influence on that, jeopardizing it by any statement that he makes. The secretary also spoke about whether or not some of these additional photographs that had been released to Congress will be released to the public.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: If anyone thinks I'm there to throw water on a fire, they're wrong. I'm there to do the things I said we're here to do.

And we care about the detainees being treated right. We care about soldiers behaving right. We care about command systems working. We have an obligation to have people who are knowledgeable and responsible look at things and report back to us so we can make judgments about what's the best way to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: And now, Soledad, the focus of the investigation is really turning towards the military intelligence system. Separate from this criminal behavior, an investigation is going on about whether military intelligence, when they took over the administration of the prison last year, whether that somehow influenced military police guards to misbehave, to engage in criminal behavior. And a very close look is going on now at the order to give that prison control to military intelligence, whether it was all appropriate -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us this morning. Barbara, thanks.

Bill?

HEMMER: Meanwhile, on the battlefield, the U.S. Army said to be making progress against insurgents, especially in the south central part of Iraq. CNN military analyst Major Don Shepperd with us back again from Phoenix, Arizona.

Don, good morning to you. Thanks for sticking around for us. I'd like to get your sense, how do you gauge the progress in places like Najaf and Karbala at this point?

MAJ. GENERAL DON SHEPPERD, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Well, there is some good news on the war front. First of all, attacks in the Fallujah area are down. The new tactics by the Marines in which they're patrolling the city with a Sunni militia from the Sunni Triangle and from Fallujah itself appears to be working in Najaf.

They are slowly squeezing Muqtada al-Sadr out without having to engage in major combat in Najaf. In other words, a whole and all-out assault on Najaf and all the holy sites, which will cause a real problem.

The idea behind all of this is to marginalize al-Sadr, bring him to justice if possible. In the meantime, squeeze and do away with his militia there. So it's a fine line we're walking, but it appears to be going fairly well. And attacks on American across the country are down slightly, Bill.

HEMMER: Some of this videotape from Najaf, exactly the place that you're talking about at this point, Don. There is reports that vary everyday this week as to whether or not Muqtada al-Sadr is willing to negotiate his way out of this. Do you negotiate with him at this point or not? SHEPPERD: You always negotiate, Bill. Every time you kill someone, basically what you're doing is making enemies for the future. We don't want to kill another Iraqi while we're there. Of course, it's going to happen, but if you can do this in negotiations, or if you can get the Sistani forces basically to do away with Muqtada al- Sadr, we're going to be better off.

HEMMER: There was also a contrasting story two days ago. A thousand people in the streets of Najaf telling Muqtada al-Sadr and his fighters to get out. How do you view that?

SHEPPERD: I view it as encouraging. Basically, the fighters were trying to take refuge in the mosques, which, of course, endangers the mosque from combat, what have you. But, basically, if you will, what is happening there is encouraging when you see the Sistani forces trying to do away with the al-Sadr Mehdi Army. That's very encouraging, Bill.

HEMMER: If I could shift your attention to Secretary Rumsfeld, what do you believe is the impact of that trip today?

SHEPPERD: Well, it's to be seen what the impact of the trip is. But clearly, one of his functions there is, let's get on with the mission.

The mission is to turn over the government to the Iraqis on 30 June, and some type of government yet to be designed. Of course, then after that, to provide a secure environment for the things that Iraq has to do in progressing toward a democracy.

This is really tough. You've got to deal with the Sunnis and give them a stake in the new Iraq. All that has to be done. It's all complicated by the scandal over the prisoner abuse.

HEMMER: And now we have to wait and see what the media in Iraq reports and how the Iraqis interpret this visit. Do you have any sense right now about what this means to them?

SHEPPERD: Yes. I think basically it complicates our mission. There's no question about it.

On the other hand, I think the Iraqis have a very good view of the fact that things under Saddam were much worse than this. It paled by comparison. And, of course, the beheading of the American, Mr. Berg, it also pales by comparison. But it's still a serious issue.

The Iraqis want us gone. We want to be gone. The question is all one of timing. We have to get past this and get back to work, and then turn it over to the Iraqis and help them so that we can get out and they can run their country.

HEMMER: Always good to hear your thoughts. Major General Don Shepperd, thanks, in Phoenix this morning.

Soledad? O'BRIEN: And, in fact, we've been talking all morning about Secretary Rumsfeld. Apparently, he has arrived at the Abu Ghraib prison. And our Ben Wedeman is there, joining us by phone this morning.

Ben, good morning to you. And first, give us a sense of what exactly is the secretary of defense doing this morning?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Well, what he did was he arrived about a half an hour ago, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here at Abu Ghraib, where hundreds of soldiers and other military policemen were assembled. And he gave a very arousing speech.

He was very upbeat. He came here with Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to look the troops in the eyes and tell them (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He referred to the prisoner abuse scandal as a body blow, but not a fatal one, obviously. He was, by and large, very upbeat and had a very warm reception from the troops here.

O'BRIEN: And obviously, it sounds as if we have lost that phone connection with Ben Wedeman, who is at the Abu Ghraib prison this morning for us, where Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld paid a visit not long ago. One thing we did hear Ben say is that he gave a rousing speech to some of the soldiers there and called the scandal over the prisoner abuse a body blow. And we'll try to get that phone call back up again so we can check in with Ben and hear what else he has to report.

HEMMER: And earlier we were hearing that it could be a good moral boost for the soldiers and Marines on patrol there.

O'BRIEN: One has to imagine they need it.

HEMMER: Back in a moment here with a bit more on Secretary Rumsfeld's visit.

Also, a new treatment with colon cancer, with less pain and a shorter stay in the hospital. We'll have a look at that.

O'BRIEN: And soon, you're going to have a really sweet reason to shop in Wal-Mart. Andy Serwer has a look at that as AMERICAN MORNING continues right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the day off today. In this morning's "House Call," a safe and effective alternative to traditional colon cancer surgery. Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us this morning from the CNN Center with the details of a new study.

Hey, Elizabeth. Good morning.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. We've all heard about laparoscopic surgery. It's used to remove gallbladders and it's used for obesity surgery. It's used for many uses. But how about for colon cancer?

It hasn't been used very much. And the reason is that doctors have feared that if they regularly used laparoscopic surgery for colon cancer that it could actually spread the cancer. Well, they've been waiting for this study that's come out in the New England Journal of Medicine.

Nearly 900 patients, 48 hospitals, led by the Mayo Clinic, found that laparoscopic surgery works just as well as traditional surgery. And the advantages of laparoscopic surgery are -- well, they're obvious.

Instead of using one big eight-inch cut to get to the colon cancer, they use three half-inch cuts. You can see it right here. There are those three half-inch cuts.

The instruments, which include a camera, go into those, and then the doctor looks at the screen and he or she will cut the cancer out and then cut right around. You can see that area there around the cancerous part of the colon. And they found again that it works just as well.

Now, colon cancer effects nearly 100,000 Americans every year. And the vast majority of them will need cancer (ph). So this may be a very big difference in the way the doctors treat colon cancer -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: As you well know, laparoscopic surgery is used -- and you gave us the list a moment ago -- but there are many doctors who will do it for gallbladder or less life-threatening diseases. Are there a number of doctors who can do it for cancer?

COHEN: Well, right now, not every surgeon knows how to do this for colon cancer because it hasn't been the regular practice. For this study, they found 66 doctors who knew how to do it. Each of them had done about 20 procedures.

So there's more than 66 out there, but it is important if you're going to have this procedure, get someone who knows how to do it. In this study, they used 20 as their benchmark. They wanted each surgeon to have done 20 before he or she participated in the study. So you can look at that number and use that also as your benchmark.

O'BRIEN: So as of right now, there are 66 doctors you have your choice of if, in fact, you are trying to treat your colon cancer this particular way. Do you expect that number is going to rise significantly in the near future?

COHEN: Well, actually, there are probably more than 66. There were only 66 that were involved in this one study. There are certainly more out there.

And, yes, that number will go up. Again, not everyone knows how to do it. But now that this study has come out, certainly more will be trained and more will get into this business.

O'BRIEN: All right. Elizabeth Cohen for us this morning. Elizabeth, thanks.

Bill?

HEMMER: In moment here, Dunkin' Donuts has not changed the time to make the doughnuts, but they have found a new place. Andy Serwer has that in a moment after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Welcome back, everybody. Dunkin' Donuts going to the wall in its fight against Krispy Kreme. With that, and a check of the markets, Andy Serwer is back with us, 'Minding Your Business.'

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Good morning to you again.

Let's talk about the markets, first. Check out and see what's going on. Stocks have been sliding a little bit at the open, and we're still sliding. Down about 35 points. Right at 1,000 there -- well, 1,008.

What's happening this morning? We're digesting those PPI numbers. Wholesale prices, what does that mean? Wholesale prices moving up. That could mean inflation and higher interest rates for you. We'll be watching that.

Stocks moving. Disney's reporting those great numbers last night. The stock is up a little bit.

Wal-Mart says it's on track. Good numbers from them as well. But Lee Scott, the CEO, says he's concerned about higher gas prices going forward, hurting its customers. That stock is down a bit.

Speaking of Wal-Mart, a big new deal with Dunkin' Donuts. I mean, you've got to put these two together, right?

Dunkin' Donuts looking to stick about 10 stores in Wal-Marts. Why not? Wal-Mart has all kind of food stores inside its big operations. They tried McDonalds, now have their own thing.

The interesting thing about this Dunkin' Donuts story, though, is they've already got Krispy Kremes in a couple of their stores as well, setting up a doughnut war here. Nothing like a doughnut war. Krispy Kreme has been having a hard time lately. Of course, they said their sales were down a little bit because of the low-carb craze. So we've brought some in here for Soledad...

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

SERWER: ... to try out, just to make sure that they're still good. O'BRIEN: As long as I can help you out.

SERWER: Are these doughnuts still good? Yes, you're welcome.

I want to talk quickly about gas prices.

HEMMER: Feeding her daily.

SERWER: Yes, feeding here every day.

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

SERWER: Gas prices, a little bit, Bill.

HEMMER: Sure.

SERWER: A lot of people asking how much are higher gas prices, higher gas prices, really costing Americans? So we crunched the numbers a little here for a couple of vehicles.

Look at the bottom. This is how much it's costing you per tank of gas more to fill up as compared to last year. Ten dollars a tank, let's say, in the Explorer. So how does that break down a year if you have an Explorer?

It's going to cost you -- say you fill up twice a week, it will cost you $20 more a week. If you're filling your Explorer up twice a week with these new higher gas prices, it's costing you more than $1,000 a year more than it did last year.

So you can see that's real money. And you can see how, of course, that would ripple through the economy. And you can see why Lee Scott of Wal-Mart would be concerned that instead of spending that money at Wal-Mart they're spending it at Exxon.

Right? Lee doesn't like that. Right?

How are those doughnuts?

HEMMER: You are right.

O'BRIEN: You know what? I've got to tell you, I'm so glad I'm not on Atkins.

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: They're delicious.

SERWER: They're still good, right?

O'BRIEN: Better than good. They're great.

SERWER: They're great.

O'BRIEN: Hey, Jack.

CAFFERTY: You eat a lot, don't you?

O'BRIEN: You have no idea. This is only...

SERWER: Ask Brad, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Yesterday, you had ice cream. You grabbed that. And you're after these doughnuts.

O'BRIEN: You know what? My goal is to gain somewhere around 60 pounds on this pregnancy.

CAFFERTY: It should be pointed out that the woman is eating for three.

SERWER: Yes.

CAFFERTY: Right? When you're not pregnant, do you have an appetite like this?

O'BRIEN: Not at all. Thank god.

CAFFERTY: OK.

SERWER: We're going to be checking that.

HEMMER: Next hour on CNN, complete coverage of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's visit ongoing in Iraq. Betty Nguyen has that on "CNN LIVE TODAY." We are back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Take a look at these pictures. Man's best friend getting himself into quite a fix in Ridgefield, Washington. A stray dog -- that little dark spot there.

A boxer Australian Shepherd mix somehow got stuck on a ledge there, hundreds of feet above a gravel pit. The dog had actually fallen halfway down a very steep slope. And a rope rescue team from the local fire district finally rescued him. Apparently, he's safe and sound, waiting to be adopted.

CAFFERTY: Not very bright, though.

O'BRIEN: Oh, well.

HEMMER: Jack can adopt him.

O'BRIEN: Maybe he slid down.

HEMMER: For sale: a dumb dog.

SERWER: A nice dog, Jack.

O'BRIEN: That's not -- you know, that's...

SERWER: He was wagging his tail a lot.

O'BRIEN: ... so mean. That's not nice.

HEMMER: We've got to run. Betty Nguyen is at the CNN Center in Atlanta.


Aired May 13, 2004 - 9:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld in Iraq today. His sudden trip a response to the prison abuse scandal there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: My first choice would be to release them, but it's my understanding that at the present time the people who have an obligation to take into account privacy issues, legal requirements under privacy laws and Geneva Convention are advising against.

HEMMER: In a moment, a live report from Baghdad.

Also, did the FBI offer to help Nick Berg out of the country before he was captured and killed? Today, two different versions of events there.

And more massive tornadoes dropping out of the sky, rolling across the prairie on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody.

Stories that we're following as well this morning, a variety of reactions coming from members of Congress after they saw additional photos of Iraqi prisoner abuse. Lots of those images are apparently much more graphic than what the public has seen so far. This morning, we're going to talk to Senator Ted Kennedy about those pictures. That's just ahead.

HEMMER: Also this hour, we'll talk about Secretary Rumsfeld's visit to Iraq with retired Major General Don Shepperd in a moment here out of Arizona today.

O'BRIEN: And Mr. Cafferty, good morning again.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning again.

The e-mail question of the day is, what is inappropriate when it comes to interrogating prisoners during wartime? AM@CNN.com, and we'll read some of your arguments about this a little bit later.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you, Jack. Let's get right to our top stories this morning.

U.S. forces in Karla, Iraq, engaged in a fierce battle with supporters of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadder. Witnesses say smoke is rising over the city's mosques. You can see them there, considered one of the Shiites most sacred shrines. News agencies are reporting that insurgents attacked an American tank with rocket-propelled grenades. There are no worlds of any casualties as of yet.

Three U.S. soldiers have now been formally referred for court- martial in connection with the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. The military announced that Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick and Sergeant Javal Davis will face courts-martial. Charges include mistreating detainees at Abu Ghraib prison and dereliction of duty. Specialist Jeremy Sivits is set to be one of the first -- or rather the first to go before the military tribunal in Baghdad next week. At least four other soldiers have been charged.

In North Dakota, the man accused in the kidnapping of that college student, Dru Sjodin, has been charged by a federal grand jury. Fifty-one-year-old Alfonso Rodriguez pleaded not guilty yesterday to a federal charge of kidnapping, resulting in death. Prosecutors moved the case to federal court to allow authorities to pursue, if they choose, the death penalty if, in fact, Rodriguez is convicted.

On the campaign trail, the focus is on domestic issues today. President Bush will be visiting a high school in West Virginia this afternoon. The president is promoting and defending his record on education.

Meanwhile, Democratic presidential candidate Senator John Kerry focusing on health care today. The senator is wrapping up a four-day campaign swing with a visit to Arkansas.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: A prediction from Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld on his way to an unannounced trip to Baghdad. Secretary Rumsfeld telling reporters that he expects the Iraqi prisoner scandal to get worse in the days ahead. He also says he supports releasing those unreleased images of prisoner abuse that Congress got a look at yesterday. Lawyers, however, apparently have a different view at this time.

To Baghdad, and Karl Penhaul, with more on the secretary's visit there.

Karl, good afternoon.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Bill.

Yes, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld arriving here early afternoon Baghdad time. He said on the plane that he didn't want to come and pour water on the fire of the prison abuse scandal, but he's likely to be facing many questions about that during his visit here. As far as those new photos, the unpublished photos about that prison abuse scandal, he said, as you say, that he supported releasing them, but added some caveats to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: As far as I'm concerned, I'd be happy to release them all to the public and to get it behind us. But, at the present time, I don't know anyone in the legal shop in any element of the government that's recommending it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PENHAUL: Pentagon officials have said that during his agenda today, that Rumsfeld will be meeting U.S. military field commanders. He'll also be meeting ordinary troops to pat them on the back and try to boost morale at this critical time -- Bill.

HEMMER: Karl Penhaul, thanks for that. More in Baghdad a bit later.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: As Secretary Rumsfeld visits Iraq, the storm over the prisoner abuse scandal continues to swirl in Washington, D.C. Lawmakers got a look at unreleased images of abuse yesterday at the Capitol. The Senate's top Republican had this reaction...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BILL FRIST (R), MAJORITY LEADER: What we saw is appalling. It is consistent with the photos that you've seen in the press to date. They go beyond that in many ways in terms of the various activities that are depicted. Some totally unrelated to the Abu Ghraib prison or to the prisoners there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Senator Frist also said the images should be kept under wraps. Here to discuss the abuse scandal is Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts.

Nice to see you, Senator. Thanks for being with us. Good morning to you.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Good morning.

O'BRIEN: You've opted, I'm told, not to view these images. Why is that?

KENNEDY: Well, I didn't think that I really needed to see additional kind of pictures. I've read the Taguba report by General Taguba, which has outlined all of the abuses that took place in the -- not only in this prison, but in prisons all over Iraq. And I've also read the Red Cross report that outlines in very graphic details these kinds of abuses.

What is a principal concern to a number of us and to all Americans is that this administration was on notice not just when these pictures were released, but also in January and February of this year. They were on notice by the Red Cross, they were on notice by other kinds of warnings in the State Department, and also by Paul Wolfowitz and to Paul Bremer, and no action was really taken.

And what we are continuing to see is blunder after blunder in Iraq. And what is happening is that we've lost our position as leader of the free world in terms of human rights. We've lost our -- now, we are the most hated nation in the world.

This war is being made more complicated for our troops. The battle against terror is more difficult. The dangers of another strike here in the United States by al Qaeda has increased. And we have seen...

O'BRIEN: Do you support then -- excuse me for interrupting you, but do you support then releasing those photos to the public?

KENNEDY: Yes, certainly, I would support them, consistent with the code of military conduct, that they ought to be out and they should be released. The more the information gets out, the more extensive these hearings, the more knowledge that we have, the better off we are.

Let me just say, finally, on the issue of this kind of heavy- handedness by the administration in terms of the torture of these prisoners, the reason we have Geneva accords is, number one, even those these prisoners in so many incidents are bad and have done bad things that we don't want to have the same morality as those individuals, but secondly, and more important, as John McCain has pointed out time and time again, information that has gotten from torture to prisoners is not good information. It is not the way to gain the kind of intelligence that you need.

And, thirdly, the reason that we've accepted the Geneva Conventions is because we don't want these other adversaries doing to American troops what we have seen these MPs and others doing to the Iraqis. That's the basic and fundamental reason.

O'BRIEN: There are some that would say when you look at what happened to the young man, Nicholas Berg, that actually the enemy is already doing that to civilians...

KENNEDY: Well, that was just a horrific act of bestiality and butchering. And our hearts go out to their families. And this is a part of the al Qaeda.

We understand that we're going to have to deal with a very tough adversary. But the real question is how that is done consistently. The point about this matter is the administration was on notice and the steps were not taken, and the United States is paying the price for that. Someone has to be held accountable besides the seven soldiers that are now going to be court-martialed.

O'BRIEN: Here's what you said on May 11. I want to read a little bit of a comment about this abuse at the prison. "Shamefully now we learn that Saddam's torture chambers have reopened under new management, United States management." There are some critics who say you went way over the line on that, and, in fact, that was a woeful exaggeration. How do you respond to that?

KENNEDY: That is part of the Republican attack machine, and I reject it. What we should have done is knocked down that prison when we occupied Iraq in the first place, or changed it and altered it, and changed it into a community, a school, or a training education center. But the idea that the United States is holding more than 7,000 prisoners in there, and we've seen these abuses, we deplore these abuses.

Let's get to the root issue in question, and that is the kind of actions that were taken and those that were responsible. It isn't only those seven, but it's also higher-ups. And let's get to judge that part.

But the whole Iraqi situation is just blunder after blunder after blunder. There was no post war. The soldiers have performed brilliantly, but with all of these kinds of conditions, the soldiers are paying the prices. The soldiers, make no mistake about it, with all of this kind of activity, the soldiers are the ones on the frontlines that are paying the price for this kind of failed planning, this kind of failed training, this kind of failed oversight.

And someone ought to be held accountable besides five or six privates. This starts much higher up, and the administration ought to deal with that.

O'BRIEN: Let's shift gears for a moment. I know one of the things that you're doing on the Hill today is to commemorate with a press conference later this afternoon, the 50th anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education.

KENNEDY: This is an enormously important time in terms of the American history, because on May 17, on Monday, we'll celebrate the 50th anniversary of the decision of the Brown v. Board of Education, that basically said separate societies, based upon a race are not what is part of the American tradition.

O'BRIEN: So then weigh in for me...

(CROSSTALK)

KENNEDY: This last January...

O'BRIEN: Give me a sense, 50 years later, how does it look to you? Much improved or not improved at all?

KENNEDY: Well, I think we have made progress, but we have a great deal of additional progress to make on this. We made some progress.

We clearly saw that the Brown v. the Board of Education opened the way for the great progress that we made in the early 1960s, 1964, with the 1964 voting -- Public Accommodations Act and the non- discrimination in employment, and '65 was the Voting Rights Act. So we've made very important progress, and we've made some progress in the schools. But we haven't made enough. And we want to celebrate what has been achieved and also be motivated to take this further.

And what is very significant at this time is the fact that this was done in a bipartisan way. Republicans and Democrats worked to free ourselves from the forms of discrimination. I wish we could get back to that same kind of mood, same atmosphere I've seen. When we have worked together on important national kinds of issues, we've made enormous progress. And that is an atmosphere and climate that we need to have to continue to knock down the walls of the discrimination in our country and to make progress in other areas as well.

O'BRIEN: We'll hear that press conference at 2:30 this afternoon, I think it is on Capitol Hill.

KENNEDY: Thank you very much.

O'BRIEN: Senator Kennedy, nice to see you. Thanks, as always.

KENNEDY: Thank you very, very much.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: In a moment here, the family of Nicholas Berg expressing anger over that death, and some is aimed to the FBI. Live to his home town in a moment and what the FBI has to say as well.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, a man who went missing with former hostage Thomas Hamill in Iraq, he has still not been heard from. We're going to hear, though, from those who are close to him back home.

HEMMER: Also, hold on tight. More dramatic videotape out of Kansas this week. Back in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: There are new questions this morning about the case of Nicholas Berg, the American civilian beheaded by Islamic militants. In Berg's hometown, outside of Philadelphia, those questions weighing on the minds of many.

Last night, Berg's father put a sign in front of their home saying, "War is not the answer." There is also anger from his family, who claim the U.S. government may have contributed to the circumstances that led to his death. Reaction from Maria Hinojosa in the hometown of West Chester, Pennsylvania.

Good morning.

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN URBAN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.

A very emotional morning here in West Chester, Pennsylvania. Michael Berg, Nick Berg's father, emerged from three days seclusion finally to speak about his son. He says, "The al Qaeda who had him didn't know what they were doing. They killed their best friend. My son went to Iraq not to tear down but to build." He said, "He went there to help, not to hurt."

But for this family, there is only hurt and very deep pain.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA (voice-over): The FBI says its agents offered Nick Berg safe passage out of Iraq, warning the young man that Iraq was a volatile place for an unprotected American. Michael Berg, his father, says his son told him he turned down the offer of a flight down because the road to the airport was too dangerous to travel.

On Wednesday, though, the family had to deal with the unfortunate reality of death, a father meeting with a funeral director to discuss laying his 26-year-old son to rest. A family in mourning, but now also angry. Not only at hooded murderers, but at the U.S. government for denying that Nick Berg was ever detained by U.S. authorities in Iraq.

MICHAEL BERG, NICK BERG'S FATHER: That's really what cost my son his life, was the fact that the United States government saw fit to keep him in custody for 13 days without any of his due process or civil rights, and release him when they were good and ready.

HINOJOSA: Brother David also broke his silence, saying that Nicholas had sent e-mails from Iraq about being held in U.S. custody. While detained in Iraq, the Berg family sued Donald Rumsfeld and the Department of Defense on April 5, demanding Nicholas' release. One day later, Nick Berg was let go and the suit was dropped.

SARA BERG, NICK BERG'S SISTER: My family is devastated.

HINOJOSA: His sister spoke briefly and emotionally. The sorrow etched on her face. Nick Berg was, according to friends, a humanitarian and an adventurer.

BRUCE HAUSER, NEIGHBOR OF BERGS: He saw it as an opportunity to drum up some business for his own company. And knowing Nick, when he got there, Nick is all about rebuilding, you know? And I'm certain that Nick had in his mind that he's going to do something to help.

HINOJOSA: But Nicholas Berg never fulfilled his promise to himself. Lost amid the confusion of war in the post-9/11 new world order that his father, searching for blame, tries to understand.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: Now, CNN has spoken to some of the people who saw Nick Berg in the last days before he disappeared. They said that Nick Berg told them that he had been taken in by the police in Mosul and then handed over to U.S. authorities. He said to these people that he was in a coalition place, he was being held there, where there were Syrians, Iranians, Jordanians. This, of course, coming on the heels of the family getting prepared for a memorial that will be held tomorrow. They're saying that it's going to be private only for friends and family of Nick Berg -- Bill.

HEMMER: Whatever the case and whatever the truth there, an absolute brutal end to the life of a very young man. Thanks, Maria.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: More remarkable pictures now from a massive tornado. This time it was in Kansas. It happened yesterday. Check out the twister as it rips across the countryside with pretty amazing force.

It tossed debris in its wake, damaged three homes, shattered windows, and blew off rooftops. Hundreds of people took shelter in basements and storm cellars as it tore through the town of Attica, which is near the border with Oklahoma. Fortunately, we are happy to say nobody was actually hurt.

Still to come this morning, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld makes a surprise visit to Iraq and explains why the Pentagon doesn't want the latest pictures of prison abuse released to the public. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Time to check in with Jack and the Question of the Day.

Hello.

CAFFERTY: Hi there.

While we all collectively expressed some shock and outrage at the abuse of Iraqi prisoners, a lot of psychologist say that they're shocked that we're shocked. Mistreatment of prisoners during wartime nothing new, it's happened in every war that's ever been fought. The difference might be this time we have all of those pictures to look at.

And there's another difference. The government has argued that the war on terrorism sometimes require the suspension of civil liberties.

Well, if it's OK to change the rules for us here at home, why shouldn't it be OK for the enemy as well? The question this morning is this: what's inappropriate interrogation technique in a time of war?

Roy in Atlantic Beach offers this: "Let's spend a billion from the new funding for Iraq and develop a chemical way to get at the truth. I see a science solution to interrogation, the Kobe Bryant, the JonBenet question. Why not?"

Jeff in Pittsburgh: "Some perspective, please. The abuse photos were abuse, not torture, not atrocity. Have some scale. The filmed beheading of a completely innocent conscious human is vastly different than a picture taken of a naked terrorist being humiliated with panties on his head. If we can't understand the moral differences here, then we've lost the war on terror."

Edwin in Toronto: "Effective interrogation does not require contact of the prisoner. The most effective form of information extraction is in atmosphere. What kind of procedural conditions did Iraqis go through during Saddam Hussein's era? Orchestrate those conditions, and by association you can create an atmosphere that a detainee has learned to fear, and then exploit it."

Thomas in Monroe, New York: "It's inappropriate to do anything you wouldn't want broadcast with video on the evening news."

One more batch of these.

HEMMER: A lot of response, huh?

CAFFERTY: Yes, 700, 800 letters, I would guess.

HEMMER: A lot of those coming in said we were overdoing it on this story. Do you get that sense or not?

CAFFERTY: Well, it's not really the question we asked this morning. Maybe that is a good one to do tomorrow. We overdo it on every story. That's what we do.

We find a story and we just write it until the thing drops dead of exhaustion. That's what we do, whether it's Kobe Bryant, or the war. I mean, that's what we do. We find a story and just beat it into submission.

HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.

Conan O'Brien talking last night. Secretary Rumsfeld is in Iraq today. Last night, taking a few shots at secretary of defense. Have a look and a listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONAN O'BRIEN, TALK SHOW HOST: Today, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld -- here's a cheery fell -- Donald Rumsfeld told senators that the Geneva Convention on prisoner rights applies in Iraq but not for prisoners held in Guantanamo Bay. That's what he said, yeah. When asked what the difference was, Rumsfeld said nobody has pictures of Guantanamo Bay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Jack, right to your point.

CAFFERTY: Yes.

HEMMER: In a moment here, more on the secretary of defense visit in Baghdad. And the story about a man who went missing with former hostage Thomas Hamill still not heard from in more than a month. We'll hear from those close to him back home in a moment on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody. Opening bell in a few seconds.

Meanwhile, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in Iraq today. The wires are reporting that he's at the prison, Abu Ghraib, at this moment. We'll get to the Pentagon and Barbara Starr in a few seconds here.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we're going to talk about the military strategy in Iraq with retired Major General Don Shepperd. Where does the U.S. go now in light of the prisoner abuse scandal?

HEMMER: All right.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

HEMMER: Top stories here at 9:30 in New York.

The fallout from the prisoner abuse scandal continues, with lawmakers anxious to find those responsible. Members of Congress spending yesterday afternoon looking at hundreds of digital images. So far, three U.S. soldiers face courts-martial for the mistreatment of inmates. But some lawmakers say they are not the only ones responsible for it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: The administration was on notice and the steps were not taken. And the United States is paying the price for that. Someone has to be held accountable besides the seven soldiers that are now going to be court-martialed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HEMMER: Senator Kennedy talking to Soledad just about 25 minutes ago. It's still not clear whether or not the new photos will be made available to the public.

The FBI says Nick Berg refused to leave Iraq just weeks before he was abducted and killed by Islamic insurgents. Officials in Baghdad say they met with the 26-year-old Berg three times while he was in custody with the Iraqi police. They deny that Berg was held in U.S. custody before he disappeared in early April, despite claims to the contrary by his family.

Israel has launched new missile strikes in Gaza. Palestinian sources say two Israeli helicopter attacks have left at least 10 Palestinians dead. This week's violence in Gaza claiming the lives of at least 33 Palestinians and at least 11 Israelis, and it continues yet again today. Health news now. An interesting new study from British doctors showing mothers to be who eat more fish in the later stages of pregnancy can increase the growth of their fetuses. Scientists found the more fish that woman eats 32 weeks in pregnancy, the lower the rate of restricted growth in the baby. But there are still certain guidelines of the amount of fish that pregnant women should consume.

I will consume my partner, the expert, later on.

In Ohio, an unwelcomed guest at a restaurant. A dazed deer leaped through the front window. The deer was out of control yesterday, nervously jumping around, breaking the furniture.

She tried to get out of that restaurant. Animal control officers came and rescued that animal. You're up to date, 9:32.

O'BRIEN: I'm glad they can rescue -- the poor animals, they get so panicked, and, of course, they can't figure out what to do.

HEMMER: Are you eating fish?

O'BRIEN: Now I am. Just what I want, two really big babies. That will be fun.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Well, according to witnesses, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is getting a firsthand look at the place that's causing so much controversy across this country and around the world as well. Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has details for us.

Of course, Barbara, this involves new word on where the secretary is right now this morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Soledad. The secretary now, by all accounts, visiting Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. He is accompanied on this surprise visit by General Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Now, Rumsfeld has told reporters on the way over to Iraq on that 15-hour flight from Washington to Baghdad that he is going to wait for the investigations to be finished before he comes to a conclusion about whether the abuse is reflective of a systemic problem or just an aberration by the soldiers. He's also not acknowledging that the Geneva Convention was violated.

He says he can't do that right now because there are court cases, there's a military justice process, and he wants to make sure there is no undue command influence on that, jeopardizing it by any statement that he makes. The secretary also spoke about whether or not some of these additional photographs that had been released to Congress will be released to the public.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUMSFELD: If anyone thinks I'm there to throw water on a fire, they're wrong. I'm there to do the things I said we're here to do.

And we care about the detainees being treated right. We care about soldiers behaving right. We care about command systems working. We have an obligation to have people who are knowledgeable and responsible look at things and report back to us so we can make judgments about what's the best way to do it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: And now, Soledad, the focus of the investigation is really turning towards the military intelligence system. Separate from this criminal behavior, an investigation is going on about whether military intelligence, when they took over the administration of the prison last year, whether that somehow influenced military police guards to misbehave, to engage in criminal behavior. And a very close look is going on now at the order to give that prison control to military intelligence, whether it was all appropriate -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Barbara Starr at the Pentagon for us this morning. Barbara, thanks.

Bill?

HEMMER: Meanwhile, on the battlefield, the U.S. Army said to be making progress against insurgents, especially in the south central part of Iraq. CNN military analyst Major Don Shepperd with us back again from Phoenix, Arizona.

Don, good morning to you. Thanks for sticking around for us. I'd like to get your sense, how do you gauge the progress in places like Najaf and Karbala at this point?

MAJ. GENERAL DON SHEPPERD, U.S. AIR FORCE (RET.): Well, there is some good news on the war front. First of all, attacks in the Fallujah area are down. The new tactics by the Marines in which they're patrolling the city with a Sunni militia from the Sunni Triangle and from Fallujah itself appears to be working in Najaf.

They are slowly squeezing Muqtada al-Sadr out without having to engage in major combat in Najaf. In other words, a whole and all-out assault on Najaf and all the holy sites, which will cause a real problem.

The idea behind all of this is to marginalize al-Sadr, bring him to justice if possible. In the meantime, squeeze and do away with his militia there. So it's a fine line we're walking, but it appears to be going fairly well. And attacks on American across the country are down slightly, Bill.

HEMMER: Some of this videotape from Najaf, exactly the place that you're talking about at this point, Don. There is reports that vary everyday this week as to whether or not Muqtada al-Sadr is willing to negotiate his way out of this. Do you negotiate with him at this point or not? SHEPPERD: You always negotiate, Bill. Every time you kill someone, basically what you're doing is making enemies for the future. We don't want to kill another Iraqi while we're there. Of course, it's going to happen, but if you can do this in negotiations, or if you can get the Sistani forces basically to do away with Muqtada al- Sadr, we're going to be better off.

HEMMER: There was also a contrasting story two days ago. A thousand people in the streets of Najaf telling Muqtada al-Sadr and his fighters to get out. How do you view that?

SHEPPERD: I view it as encouraging. Basically, the fighters were trying to take refuge in the mosques, which, of course, endangers the mosque from combat, what have you. But, basically, if you will, what is happening there is encouraging when you see the Sistani forces trying to do away with the al-Sadr Mehdi Army. That's very encouraging, Bill.

HEMMER: If I could shift your attention to Secretary Rumsfeld, what do you believe is the impact of that trip today?

SHEPPERD: Well, it's to be seen what the impact of the trip is. But clearly, one of his functions there is, let's get on with the mission.

The mission is to turn over the government to the Iraqis on 30 June, and some type of government yet to be designed. Of course, then after that, to provide a secure environment for the things that Iraq has to do in progressing toward a democracy.

This is really tough. You've got to deal with the Sunnis and give them a stake in the new Iraq. All that has to be done. It's all complicated by the scandal over the prisoner abuse.

HEMMER: And now we have to wait and see what the media in Iraq reports and how the Iraqis interpret this visit. Do you have any sense right now about what this means to them?

SHEPPERD: Yes. I think basically it complicates our mission. There's no question about it.

On the other hand, I think the Iraqis have a very good view of the fact that things under Saddam were much worse than this. It paled by comparison. And, of course, the beheading of the American, Mr. Berg, it also pales by comparison. But it's still a serious issue.

The Iraqis want us gone. We want to be gone. The question is all one of timing. We have to get past this and get back to work, and then turn it over to the Iraqis and help them so that we can get out and they can run their country.

HEMMER: Always good to hear your thoughts. Major General Don Shepperd, thanks, in Phoenix this morning.

Soledad? O'BRIEN: And, in fact, we've been talking all morning about Secretary Rumsfeld. Apparently, he has arrived at the Abu Ghraib prison. And our Ben Wedeman is there, joining us by phone this morning.

Ben, good morning to you. And first, give us a sense of what exactly is the secretary of defense doing this morning?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CAIRO BUREAU CHIEF: Well, what he did was he arrived about a half an hour ago, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) here at Abu Ghraib, where hundreds of soldiers and other military policemen were assembled. And he gave a very arousing speech.

He was very upbeat. He came here with Richard Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to look the troops in the eyes and tell them (UNINTELLIGIBLE). He referred to the prisoner abuse scandal as a body blow, but not a fatal one, obviously. He was, by and large, very upbeat and had a very warm reception from the troops here.

O'BRIEN: And obviously, it sounds as if we have lost that phone connection with Ben Wedeman, who is at the Abu Ghraib prison this morning for us, where Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld paid a visit not long ago. One thing we did hear Ben say is that he gave a rousing speech to some of the soldiers there and called the scandal over the prisoner abuse a body blow. And we'll try to get that phone call back up again so we can check in with Ben and hear what else he has to report.

HEMMER: And earlier we were hearing that it could be a good moral boost for the soldiers and Marines on patrol there.

O'BRIEN: One has to imagine they need it.

HEMMER: Back in a moment here with a bit more on Secretary Rumsfeld's visit.

Also, a new treatment with colon cancer, with less pain and a shorter stay in the hospital. We'll have a look at that.

O'BRIEN: And soon, you're going to have a really sweet reason to shop in Wal-Mart. Andy Serwer has a look at that as AMERICAN MORNING continues right after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the day off today. In this morning's "House Call," a safe and effective alternative to traditional colon cancer surgery. Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us this morning from the CNN Center with the details of a new study.

Hey, Elizabeth. Good morning.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad. We've all heard about laparoscopic surgery. It's used to remove gallbladders and it's used for obesity surgery. It's used for many uses. But how about for colon cancer?

It hasn't been used very much. And the reason is that doctors have feared that if they regularly used laparoscopic surgery for colon cancer that it could actually spread the cancer. Well, they've been waiting for this study that's come out in the New England Journal of Medicine.

Nearly 900 patients, 48 hospitals, led by the Mayo Clinic, found that laparoscopic surgery works just as well as traditional surgery. And the advantages of laparoscopic surgery are -- well, they're obvious.

Instead of using one big eight-inch cut to get to the colon cancer, they use three half-inch cuts. You can see it right here. There are those three half-inch cuts.

The instruments, which include a camera, go into those, and then the doctor looks at the screen and he or she will cut the cancer out and then cut right around. You can see that area there around the cancerous part of the colon. And they found again that it works just as well.

Now, colon cancer effects nearly 100,000 Americans every year. And the vast majority of them will need cancer (ph). So this may be a very big difference in the way the doctors treat colon cancer -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: As you well know, laparoscopic surgery is used -- and you gave us the list a moment ago -- but there are many doctors who will do it for gallbladder or less life-threatening diseases. Are there a number of doctors who can do it for cancer?

COHEN: Well, right now, not every surgeon knows how to do this for colon cancer because it hasn't been the regular practice. For this study, they found 66 doctors who knew how to do it. Each of them had done about 20 procedures.

So there's more than 66 out there, but it is important if you're going to have this procedure, get someone who knows how to do it. In this study, they used 20 as their benchmark. They wanted each surgeon to have done 20 before he or she participated in the study. So you can look at that number and use that also as your benchmark.

O'BRIEN: So as of right now, there are 66 doctors you have your choice of if, in fact, you are trying to treat your colon cancer this particular way. Do you expect that number is going to rise significantly in the near future?

COHEN: Well, actually, there are probably more than 66. There were only 66 that were involved in this one study. There are certainly more out there.

And, yes, that number will go up. Again, not everyone knows how to do it. But now that this study has come out, certainly more will be trained and more will get into this business.

O'BRIEN: All right. Elizabeth Cohen for us this morning. Elizabeth, thanks.

Bill?

HEMMER: In moment here, Dunkin' Donuts has not changed the time to make the doughnuts, but they have found a new place. Andy Serwer has that in a moment after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Welcome back, everybody. Dunkin' Donuts going to the wall in its fight against Krispy Kreme. With that, and a check of the markets, Andy Serwer is back with us, 'Minding Your Business.'

Good morning.

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Good morning to you again.

Let's talk about the markets, first. Check out and see what's going on. Stocks have been sliding a little bit at the open, and we're still sliding. Down about 35 points. Right at 1,000 there -- well, 1,008.

What's happening this morning? We're digesting those PPI numbers. Wholesale prices, what does that mean? Wholesale prices moving up. That could mean inflation and higher interest rates for you. We'll be watching that.

Stocks moving. Disney's reporting those great numbers last night. The stock is up a little bit.

Wal-Mart says it's on track. Good numbers from them as well. But Lee Scott, the CEO, says he's concerned about higher gas prices going forward, hurting its customers. That stock is down a bit.

Speaking of Wal-Mart, a big new deal with Dunkin' Donuts. I mean, you've got to put these two together, right?

Dunkin' Donuts looking to stick about 10 stores in Wal-Marts. Why not? Wal-Mart has all kind of food stores inside its big operations. They tried McDonalds, now have their own thing.

The interesting thing about this Dunkin' Donuts story, though, is they've already got Krispy Kremes in a couple of their stores as well, setting up a doughnut war here. Nothing like a doughnut war. Krispy Kreme has been having a hard time lately. Of course, they said their sales were down a little bit because of the low-carb craze. So we've brought some in here for Soledad...

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

SERWER: ... to try out, just to make sure that they're still good. O'BRIEN: As long as I can help you out.

SERWER: Are these doughnuts still good? Yes, you're welcome.

I want to talk quickly about gas prices.

HEMMER: Feeding her daily.

SERWER: Yes, feeding here every day.

O'BRIEN: Thank you.

SERWER: Gas prices, a little bit, Bill.

HEMMER: Sure.

SERWER: A lot of people asking how much are higher gas prices, higher gas prices, really costing Americans? So we crunched the numbers a little here for a couple of vehicles.

Look at the bottom. This is how much it's costing you per tank of gas more to fill up as compared to last year. Ten dollars a tank, let's say, in the Explorer. So how does that break down a year if you have an Explorer?

It's going to cost you -- say you fill up twice a week, it will cost you $20 more a week. If you're filling your Explorer up twice a week with these new higher gas prices, it's costing you more than $1,000 a year more than it did last year.

So you can see that's real money. And you can see how, of course, that would ripple through the economy. And you can see why Lee Scott of Wal-Mart would be concerned that instead of spending that money at Wal-Mart they're spending it at Exxon.

Right? Lee doesn't like that. Right?

How are those doughnuts?

HEMMER: You are right.

O'BRIEN: You know what? I've got to tell you, I'm so glad I'm not on Atkins.

SERWER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: They're delicious.

SERWER: They're still good, right?

O'BRIEN: Better than good. They're great.

SERWER: They're great.

O'BRIEN: Hey, Jack.

CAFFERTY: You eat a lot, don't you?

O'BRIEN: You have no idea. This is only...

SERWER: Ask Brad, Jack.

CAFFERTY: Yesterday, you had ice cream. You grabbed that. And you're after these doughnuts.

O'BRIEN: You know what? My goal is to gain somewhere around 60 pounds on this pregnancy.

CAFFERTY: It should be pointed out that the woman is eating for three.

SERWER: Yes.

CAFFERTY: Right? When you're not pregnant, do you have an appetite like this?

O'BRIEN: Not at all. Thank god.

CAFFERTY: OK.

SERWER: We're going to be checking that.

HEMMER: Next hour on CNN, complete coverage of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's visit ongoing in Iraq. Betty Nguyen has that on "CNN LIVE TODAY." We are back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Take a look at these pictures. Man's best friend getting himself into quite a fix in Ridgefield, Washington. A stray dog -- that little dark spot there.

A boxer Australian Shepherd mix somehow got stuck on a ledge there, hundreds of feet above a gravel pit. The dog had actually fallen halfway down a very steep slope. And a rope rescue team from the local fire district finally rescued him. Apparently, he's safe and sound, waiting to be adopted.

CAFFERTY: Not very bright, though.

O'BRIEN: Oh, well.

HEMMER: Jack can adopt him.

O'BRIEN: Maybe he slid down.

HEMMER: For sale: a dumb dog.

SERWER: A nice dog, Jack.

O'BRIEN: That's not -- you know, that's...

SERWER: He was wagging his tail a lot.

O'BRIEN: ... so mean. That's not nice.

HEMMER: We've got to run. Betty Nguyen is at the CNN Center in Atlanta.