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American Morning
Hundreds of Prisoners Released From Abu Ghraib Prison
Aired May 14, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The American murdered in Iraq had a 9/11 connection. Why the FBI questioned Nick Berg more than a year ago about Zacharias Moussaui.
A question of sovereignty. Who decides whether U.S. troops stay in Iraq after June 30? Important questions we'll ask officials from the coalition.
And, in too deep. Flood waters rising from Texas to Minnesota on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning everyone. Seven o'clock here in New York on a Friday.
Learning more details about what may have happened at Abu Ghraib Prison. Some of the statements made by Spc. Jeremy Sivits now being reported.
We'll also talk to the father of another soldier facing a court martial in Iraq. All that straight ahead this hour.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we're going to take a look at how the negative headlines out of Iraq are effecting the president's campaign team, as well as Senator John Kerry's, when we talk politics with Ron Brownstein this morning.
HEMMER: All right -- also Jack Cafferty on a Friday. Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. It has been an awful week for the news.
I mean, so much so that even some of us who report this stuff are getting a little bummed out. So we're going to take a look at options to get away from the horror of the headlines.
HEMMER: All right. Thanks, Jack. I'm telling you.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jack.
Top stories now. In Iraq today, originally planned to be one of peaceful demonstrations now turning violent.
The streets of the holy city of Najaf filled with gunfire and grenades. U.S. forces battled members of the Mahdi Army, the militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr. Witnesses say they heard a series of loud explosions and saw black smoke hours after that fighting broke out.
The population of Iraq's Abu Ghraib Prison is being scaled back one day after Defense Secretary Rumsfeld visited there.
Buses filled with an estimated 315 inmates leaving the Baghdad area facility today. This is the first mass prisoner release since those images of abuse surfaced.
The next release is planned for May 21. This morning we'll talk to a spokesman for the coalition. That's just ahead.
Police in Spain are said to have arrested five people with -- suspected with links to al Qaeda. CNN is reporting that those arrests were made yesterday. Police say the al Qaeda-linked cell was believed to have been planning to send combatants to Iraq.
Here in the U.S., the privately developed manned rocket climbs to new heights over California. Space Ship One, funded by Microsoft co- founder and billionaire Paul Allen, set a new civilian altitude record of about 40 miles over the Mojave Desert yesterday during a test flight.
The craft is competing for a $10 million prize. The prize is meant to promote the development of low cost private space travel.
And in sports, the Los Angeles Lakers stunned the San Antonio Spurs with a last second 74-73 victory. The Spurs all but had the game wrapped up with this shot by Tim Duncan last night, but with less than a second the celebration was cut short by a Derek Fisher 18-foot bombshell.
HEMMER: Wow.
O'BRIEN: The Lakers now lead the series three to two and head home for game six, which takes place on Saturday.
HEMMER: That's their third straight victory. I think that game just ended like 15 minutes ago in L.A. I'm telling you.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Let's start in Iraq. Hundreds of prisoners were released this morning from Abu Ghraib Prison outside of Baghdad and it comes after the surprise visit to that country by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, Dan Senor, a senior adviser to the Coalition Provisional Authority, both live in Baghdad.
Both back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Thank you, gentlemen, for your time.
And, Mr. Senor, I'm going to start with this prison release today. A larger number than normal.
What does this have to with the release today and the numbers well over 300 with the prison abuse scandal as of late?
DAN SENOR, SR. ADVISER TO COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY: Well, I would defer to Gen. Kimmitt on the operational details as the basis for the release, but I would say that we have been engaged in a broad program that's been going on here for a number of months to be releasing prisoners on a quite regular basis.
HEMMER: Well, the Red Cross is saying 70 to 90 percent of those being held have nothing to do with the insurgency. Do your coalition numbers match that of the Red Cross?
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, DEP. DIR. FOR COALITION OPERATIONS, U.S. ARMY: They certainly don't. We are very careful about who we're bringing to Abu Ghraib Prison.
It is clear that they pose an imminent threat, an imperative threat, to security and we don't bring prisoners in in large sweeps.
We have reason to be keeping those people and when those reasons no longer exist, then we release them.
HEMMER: If I could talk about the CIA yesterday; its announcement that it believes the voice on that tape of the man who beheaded Nicholas Berg is Abu Zarqawi. At this point why is he so difficult, General, to locate in Iraq?
KIMMITT: Well, I think he is got a large terrorist network inside this country. We've seen it operate throughout. He's taken credit for as many as 27 different operations. He is one of those people that is very difficult to find.
We are applying all of our intelligence resources focused upon him and all the threats inside this country, and we're going to find him.
HEMMER: Are you convinced he's in that country?
KIMMITT: We have great reason to believe that he remains inside of Iraq.
HEMMER: Who is a higher priority? Abu Zarqawi or Muqtada Al- Sadr?
KIMMITT: They are both high on our list. I think we have got Muqtada Al-Sadr well cornered down inside of Najaf (UNINTELLIGIBLE) but if you take a look at who probably presents more of a concern to the people of Iraq, I think they would tell you Abu Zarqawi.
HEMMER: If I could continue with Mr. Senor on the topic of Nicholas Berg, was he ever, sir -- was Nicholas Berg ever in U.S. custody?
SENOR: Bill, to our knowledge he was detained by the Iraqi police in Mosul. He was in Iraqi police custody. He was met by U.S. officials.
He was contacted by U.S. consular officials; he was visited three times by the FBI, but at all times he was in U.S. custody.
I think some of the confusion emanates from the fact that at a number of the Iraqi detention facilities throughout the country, there are American MPs who play a support role there, but it doesn't detract from the fact that it's still an Iraqi facility, and I think that once we do a little more investigating here we can hope to provide some more clarity.
HEMMER: Did the FBI, Mr. Senor -- was the FBI aware of this connection we now know of of the possibility of Zacharias Moussaui used the password of Nicholas Berg on a computer some time ago?
SENOR: I would defer to the FBI on that specific detail. I can tell you that the FBI released or made it clear that it was OK for Mr. Berg, as far as they were concerned, to be released, and the Iraqi police felt the same once they were confident he was not connected to any criminal or terrorist activities.
However, you know, what led up to their -- to their investigation here and what was informing their point of view on this issue, again, I would defer to the Federal Bureau.
HEMMER: The day after Secretary Rumsfeld visits Iraq, to Gen. Kimmitt on this, did the U.S. coalition there and others working in Iraq, did they need a morale boost?
KIMMITT: Well, I don't think we specifically had a requirement for a morale boost, but I can tell you the morale was lifted tremendously by seeing Secretary Rumsfeld and the chairman of the joint staff over here.
They added a lot to the day, the troops always love hearing the secretary of defense and the chairman and yes, that gave us a morale boost.
HEMMER: On a discussion about the handover yesterday in Congress, Marc Grossman, who is the undersecretary of state for political affairs, had this to say about the eventuality down the road. Listen to him and we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMBASSADOR MARC GROSSMAN, UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR POL. AFFAIRS: Any time after sovereignty is given to whatever entity exists, and they ask our troops to leave, will our troops leave?
I mean, that's what Mr. Ackerman (ph) was asking. I believe, sir, that as the TAM (ph) is -- will they leave or won't they and Mr. Ackerman was right.
I mean, I think if you look at the transition administrative law and U.N. Security Council 1511, Iraqis have said that they would like our forces to stay and if they ask us to leave when they have sovereignty we will leave, will we not?
I mean, what's this -- of course. Is the answer yes? If they ask us to leave -- let me go back. I do not -- is the answer yes? No, that's not -- is the answer yes?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Marc Grossman from yesterday.
The question is this, Mr. Senor, if the new government in Iraq asked the United States military to leave prior to elections in 2005, will the U.S. honor that?
SENOR: You know, Bill, I don't want to have a speculative discussion here about future discussions between an American -- between the American government and the future Iraqi government.
I can tell you that the United States of America has a partnership relationship with multiple countries around the world where we have troops stationed around the world. We do not station troops in countries where our troops are not welcomed.
The fact is the overwhelming majority of Iraqis want an American security presence here after June 30.
The overwhelming majority of Iraqis recognize that there will still be a significant terrorist threat in this country after June 30 and that their own Iraqi security forces won't be in a position to defend against that threat on their own.
There is this desire for American forces to still be here and we think that will be the basis upon which this partnership will be formed. It's really not a concern we have here on the ground.
HEMMER: Dan Senor and Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt live in Baghdad. Thank you, gentlemen for your time today.
SENOR: Good to be with you.
KIMMITT: Thank you.
HEMMER: Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Now more on the twists in the story of the American Nicholas Berg. As we mentioned, government sources tell CNN that there was a tangential relationship between Berg and accused terrorist Zacharias Moussaui.
CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena now with details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: The ties between Nicholas Berg and Zacharias Moussaui, the only person charged in the U.S. in connection to 9/11, trace back to Oklahoma. MICHAEL BERG, FATHER OF NICHOLAS BERG: Nick went to Oklahoma University and he was taking a course at the remote campus and you're on a bus -- that remote campus was near the airport where some terrorist people who no one knew were terrorists at the time.
They were just fellow students -- were also taking that bus, and someone asked him how they -- how they -- asked him basically to let them use his computer and he did.
ARENA: U.S. officials say Berg shared his computer and his password with one individual, and that password somehow ended up in Moussaui's possession.
BERG: It turned out that this guy was a terrorist and that he -- you know -- used my son's e-mail, amongst many other people's e-mail, who he did the same thing to.
ARENA: The FBI tracked down Berg, and his father said his son cooperated fully.
Michael Berg said the incident happened several years ago. Moussaui took flight lessons in Oklahoma in 2001.
It's a curious twist, and some suggest a possible reason the FBI felt compelled to interview Berg three times in Iraq before clearing him for release.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Nicholas Berg's father, Michael Berg, said the FBI investigated that Moussaui matter more than a year ago and he stressed that his son was in no way connected to terrorists.
HEMMER: Folks in a small town in Minnesota -- Roseau is the name of the town -- apparently beating back a flood there.
This week's heavy rains pushed the river over flood stage. Overnight the river reached a crest level of 201/2 feet. Extensive sandbagging by residents paid off there -- no flooded structures; evacuation has been reported. The river should stay at flood levels we are told for the next 24 hours.
So good luck up there in Minnesota.
O'BRIEN: And good work so far.
Still to come this morning preparing to face military justice. We're going to hear from the father of one of the soldiers now charged in that prisoner abuse scandal. That's coming up next.
HEMMER: Also record travel numbers expected this summer. Can the airlines bounce back? Andy takes a look at that on a Friday in a moment here.
O'BRIEN: And farewell to "Fraiser." Our "90-Second Pop" panel ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Three soldiers charged in the Iraq prisoner abuse scandal will face military justice next week.
On Wednesday Army Spc. Jeremy Sivits gets a special court martial, which is about equivalent to a misdemeanor. Then he is expected to plead guilty and testify against the others.
On Thursday, Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick and Sgt. Javal Davis are expected to be arraigned on more serious charges at what's called a general court martial.
In one statement made to investigators, published today, Sivits is quoted as saying; "Davis has stomped on either the fingers or toes of the detainees. When he stomped, the detainees -- they were in pain, because the detainees would scream loudly."
Sgt. Davis' father, Jonathan, joins us this morning along with his attorney, Paul Bergrin. Nice to see you, gentlemen. Thanks for coming in to talk to me.
JONATHAN DAVIS, FATHER OF SGT. JAVAL DAVIS: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Davis, first, when was the last time that you talked to your son and what's his frame of mind right now as he faces this military action?
DAVIS: Well, actually, I talked to him just this morning, and he's keeping his spirits up, you know. He's very, very concerned about the goings on here in the States and what's happening.
And what's happening with him abroad, you know. But he's keeping God first and, you know, he has support from his family.
O'BRIEN: Here is what he is charged with. Conspiracy to maltreat detainees, dereliction of duty, assault, and giving false official statements.
Has he explained to you what happened and why he's facing these charges?
DAVIS: Yes he has. My son is just -- he's a good solider. They were directed to do a job and that's exactly what he did.
And this is a -- I think it was just a ploy or whatever have you to put it all on the smaller, on the smaller guys.
As I play chess, you know. They are just pawns, you know. There are bigger people behind this.
O'BRIEN: Who are the bigger guys who told him in his words to do this?
DAVIS: Well, you have special ops or CIA or they have outside contractors as they call them to -- to do the interrogation or whatever have you. And instructed them as well to take part in this.
O'BRIEN: In a report your son is quoted as saying I was made to do various things that I would question morally. So then explain to me why he would go ahead and do those things.
DAVIS: Well, when you are directed to -- when you are directed with an order, it's a catch-22, you know.
You don't want to be insubordinate because there are consequences with that. And giving the stress that they're going through, and everyday life there, you know, you have to do what you're told. You know, so, I mean...
O'BRIEN: Does that mean, though, that he's admitting going over the line? Is he admitting to abusing prisoners?
DAVIS: No. No. He's not.
O'BRIEN: So then what's he saying that he did that he felt was wrong morally?
PAUL BERGRIN, ATTORNEY FOR SOLIDER ACCUSED OF PRISONER ABUSE: I can answer that question. He's never made any admission that he did anything morally -- what happened -- he's a soldier -- he's been there for 13 months under the most deplorable, inhumane conditions.
Any human being, nonetheless a soldier, had to experience. He's been working anywhere from 14 to 18 hour shifts, seven days a week without any breaks whatsoever. He's been there for 13 months and he's kept this schedule up.
There's absolutely no chaplains to talk to; nobody to go to for guidance, leadership. On a consistent basis, almost a daily basis, he's told by military intelligence officers, civilian contractors, special agents from the CIA, FBI, that they're not getting enough information from these detainees.
And these are the most horrendous, dangerous, despicable human beings...
O'BRIEN: He's an MP, though, right?
BERGRIN: He's a military police officer, he's not a correction officer, he's not a intelligence officer, and he was trained as a military police officer.
He had no guidance or training as a correction officer and no guidance, training or education of the Geneva Convention.
O'BRIEN: Who'd he talk to, who'd he complain to? Because military officials would say when you read that litany of sort of the bad terrible conditions, the long days -- they'd say there are many, many people working under those conditions who are not on the verge of a court martial.
BERGRIN: Absolutely. But he's a soldier and as a soldier his obligation, his duty is to go up his chain of command.
O'BRIEN: And did he?
BERGRIN: And that's exactly what he did. He went to his chain of command; he questioned some of the interrogation techniques, some of the procedures...
O'BRIEN: What was he told?
BERGRIN: He was told that he's a soldier, to follow orders, and that intelligence wants additional information.
And if you get us the additional information, intelligence is ready -- is able to break these prisoners, they will save the lives of innocent soldiers on the outside, civilians, and individuals like Nicholas Berg.
O'BRIEN: So then is he admitting that he did some of those things and then I read you some of what Jeremy Sivits had to say -- you're saying that he was uncomfortable with things. Is he admitting that in fact that he did those things?
For example, the charge sheet says he forced detainees into a pile, jumped on them, accused him of stepping on the feet, striking a detainee in anger -- or is he saying I did those things but someone else commanded me to? Is that the defense?
BERGRIN: We intend to plead not guilty and we're confident that we will be vindicated of all the allegations. He did certain acts, but he didn't commit any criminal acts. He never stomped on anybody's feet, toes, hands.
He never jumped on piles of detainees that were unclothed and once this case is factually contested, we firmly -- we're firmly convinced and believe that the truth will come out and justice will be done in this case.
O'BRIEN: Well, good luck to you. Thanks for joining us this morning to talk about the case.
We're out of time -- I know you have something you want to add, but, unfortunately, we're really out of time. So we will continue to check in with you as this goes forward.
Mr. Davis and also Mr. Bergrin thanks a lot; we appreciate it -- Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, in a moment here, amid new twists in the story of Nicholas Berg, back to Baghdad, a talk with one of his friends this morning there.
And gas prices ticking ever higher. Can anything ease the pain at the pump?
Andy has a look after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right, welcome back everybody. As oil reaches record highs yet again will economic news this morning fuel the inflation jitters.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: No.
HEMMER: Check of the markets -- Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business," first check here on a Friday morning.
Where do we get some cheap oil?
SERWER: Good question. Canada; that's a whole other issue.
Let's talk about oil; obviously this is topic number one in the business world right now.
Breaking a 21-year record yesterday on the New York mercantile exchange. $41 and $22 and 22 cents a barrel -- I should say -- they started trading in 1983.
OK, in 1980 inflation adjusted was $78 a barrel, so we haven't hit that. Still, it doesn't make you feel any better.
Memo to Washington: isn't it time that this country got really serious about reducing our dependence on foreign oil?
I think you're going to hear a lot about that. Let's talk about inflation. At 8:30 today, consumer price index coming out. That's the inflation measure for the month of April.
We're looking at .3 percent. Anything higher than that and you're really looking at the Federal Reserve possibly raising interest rates in June instead of in August.
Yesterday the markets were mixed. The Dow is down a bit, you can see here. Tech stocks held up reasonably well. Again, though -- Bill -- higher oil prices and inflation jitters; traders trying to come to grips with what that's all about right now.
HEMMER: Quickly, talking about the airlines. Are they always hope for a boost in business come summertime; but yet United with problems.
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: You've got Delta with problems. You've got American.
SERWER: Well, the big thing now, of course, people talking about the bail out of the airline industry after 9/11. How successful was that? Well maybe not as successful as the government would have hoped.
$15 billion, now you're looking to big guys still in trouble. Delta, we talked about them. Warning about going into bankruptcy. They have to get something going with their pilots; they got a small concession the other day so they'll be able to continue flying over the summer. That's 8800 pilots flying 500 planes.
United now saying that it needs to extend its bankruptcy protection. It was supposed to come out of bankruptcy in June; now it's going to say it needs to stay through the end of the year. So the big ones are still in a lot of trouble and higher oil prices of course not helping the situation at all.
HEMMER: You're exactly right. Thank you, Andy -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Jack now and the Cafferty Files. Hello, and the "Question of the Day."
CAFFERTY: Hi, Mom. Thanks.
What a week it's been. Decapitation, images of abuse of Iraqi prisoners, American soldiers being killed and wounded, an ongoing struggle against the insurgents in Iraq, gasoline prices at all-time highs, going higher, the stock market going down, tornadoes ripping up the countryside, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Even "Friends" and "Frasier" all gone. Not exactly the version of current events we used to find in our "Weekly Reader" -- remember those? So here's the question: what are you doing to escape the horror of today's headlines? It's Friday; knock yourself out. am@cnn.com.
HEMMER: But don't change the channel.
CAFFERTY: Oh no, no, no.
SERWER: Comfort food; how about that? Right Soledad?
O'BRIEN: Totally; I find my solace in a big bowl of mashed potatoes; how about you all?
SERWER: Well. Cocktails. Friday afternoon.
HEMMER: Hey listen. It's happy hour somewhere.
SERWER: Yes, that's it.
O'BRIEN: Ah, no drinking for me. All right, still to come this morning, Dr. Crane says farewell as Jack mentioned after 11 years. "90-Second Pop" takes a look at the "Frasier" finale plus reality TV's dirty secrets exposed right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
And a big old shocker on "American Idol." That's ahead. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired May 14, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: The American murdered in Iraq had a 9/11 connection. Why the FBI questioned Nick Berg more than a year ago about Zacharias Moussaui.
A question of sovereignty. Who decides whether U.S. troops stay in Iraq after June 30? Important questions we'll ask officials from the coalition.
And, in too deep. Flood waters rising from Texas to Minnesota on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning everyone. Seven o'clock here in New York on a Friday.
Learning more details about what may have happened at Abu Ghraib Prison. Some of the statements made by Spc. Jeremy Sivits now being reported.
We'll also talk to the father of another soldier facing a court martial in Iraq. All that straight ahead this hour.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, we're going to take a look at how the negative headlines out of Iraq are effecting the president's campaign team, as well as Senator John Kerry's, when we talk politics with Ron Brownstein this morning.
HEMMER: All right -- also Jack Cafferty on a Friday. Good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. It has been an awful week for the news.
I mean, so much so that even some of us who report this stuff are getting a little bummed out. So we're going to take a look at options to get away from the horror of the headlines.
HEMMER: All right. Thanks, Jack. I'm telling you.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jack.
Top stories now. In Iraq today, originally planned to be one of peaceful demonstrations now turning violent.
The streets of the holy city of Najaf filled with gunfire and grenades. U.S. forces battled members of the Mahdi Army, the militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada Al-Sadr. Witnesses say they heard a series of loud explosions and saw black smoke hours after that fighting broke out.
The population of Iraq's Abu Ghraib Prison is being scaled back one day after Defense Secretary Rumsfeld visited there.
Buses filled with an estimated 315 inmates leaving the Baghdad area facility today. This is the first mass prisoner release since those images of abuse surfaced.
The next release is planned for May 21. This morning we'll talk to a spokesman for the coalition. That's just ahead.
Police in Spain are said to have arrested five people with -- suspected with links to al Qaeda. CNN is reporting that those arrests were made yesterday. Police say the al Qaeda-linked cell was believed to have been planning to send combatants to Iraq.
Here in the U.S., the privately developed manned rocket climbs to new heights over California. Space Ship One, funded by Microsoft co- founder and billionaire Paul Allen, set a new civilian altitude record of about 40 miles over the Mojave Desert yesterday during a test flight.
The craft is competing for a $10 million prize. The prize is meant to promote the development of low cost private space travel.
And in sports, the Los Angeles Lakers stunned the San Antonio Spurs with a last second 74-73 victory. The Spurs all but had the game wrapped up with this shot by Tim Duncan last night, but with less than a second the celebration was cut short by a Derek Fisher 18-foot bombshell.
HEMMER: Wow.
O'BRIEN: The Lakers now lead the series three to two and head home for game six, which takes place on Saturday.
HEMMER: That's their third straight victory. I think that game just ended like 15 minutes ago in L.A. I'm telling you.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Let's start in Iraq. Hundreds of prisoners were released this morning from Abu Ghraib Prison outside of Baghdad and it comes after the surprise visit to that country by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.
Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, Dan Senor, a senior adviser to the Coalition Provisional Authority, both live in Baghdad.
Both back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Thank you, gentlemen, for your time.
And, Mr. Senor, I'm going to start with this prison release today. A larger number than normal.
What does this have to with the release today and the numbers well over 300 with the prison abuse scandal as of late?
DAN SENOR, SR. ADVISER TO COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY: Well, I would defer to Gen. Kimmitt on the operational details as the basis for the release, but I would say that we have been engaged in a broad program that's been going on here for a number of months to be releasing prisoners on a quite regular basis.
HEMMER: Well, the Red Cross is saying 70 to 90 percent of those being held have nothing to do with the insurgency. Do your coalition numbers match that of the Red Cross?
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, DEP. DIR. FOR COALITION OPERATIONS, U.S. ARMY: They certainly don't. We are very careful about who we're bringing to Abu Ghraib Prison.
It is clear that they pose an imminent threat, an imperative threat, to security and we don't bring prisoners in in large sweeps.
We have reason to be keeping those people and when those reasons no longer exist, then we release them.
HEMMER: If I could talk about the CIA yesterday; its announcement that it believes the voice on that tape of the man who beheaded Nicholas Berg is Abu Zarqawi. At this point why is he so difficult, General, to locate in Iraq?
KIMMITT: Well, I think he is got a large terrorist network inside this country. We've seen it operate throughout. He's taken credit for as many as 27 different operations. He is one of those people that is very difficult to find.
We are applying all of our intelligence resources focused upon him and all the threats inside this country, and we're going to find him.
HEMMER: Are you convinced he's in that country?
KIMMITT: We have great reason to believe that he remains inside of Iraq.
HEMMER: Who is a higher priority? Abu Zarqawi or Muqtada Al- Sadr?
KIMMITT: They are both high on our list. I think we have got Muqtada Al-Sadr well cornered down inside of Najaf (UNINTELLIGIBLE) but if you take a look at who probably presents more of a concern to the people of Iraq, I think they would tell you Abu Zarqawi.
HEMMER: If I could continue with Mr. Senor on the topic of Nicholas Berg, was he ever, sir -- was Nicholas Berg ever in U.S. custody?
SENOR: Bill, to our knowledge he was detained by the Iraqi police in Mosul. He was in Iraqi police custody. He was met by U.S. officials.
He was contacted by U.S. consular officials; he was visited three times by the FBI, but at all times he was in U.S. custody.
I think some of the confusion emanates from the fact that at a number of the Iraqi detention facilities throughout the country, there are American MPs who play a support role there, but it doesn't detract from the fact that it's still an Iraqi facility, and I think that once we do a little more investigating here we can hope to provide some more clarity.
HEMMER: Did the FBI, Mr. Senor -- was the FBI aware of this connection we now know of of the possibility of Zacharias Moussaui used the password of Nicholas Berg on a computer some time ago?
SENOR: I would defer to the FBI on that specific detail. I can tell you that the FBI released or made it clear that it was OK for Mr. Berg, as far as they were concerned, to be released, and the Iraqi police felt the same once they were confident he was not connected to any criminal or terrorist activities.
However, you know, what led up to their -- to their investigation here and what was informing their point of view on this issue, again, I would defer to the Federal Bureau.
HEMMER: The day after Secretary Rumsfeld visits Iraq, to Gen. Kimmitt on this, did the U.S. coalition there and others working in Iraq, did they need a morale boost?
KIMMITT: Well, I don't think we specifically had a requirement for a morale boost, but I can tell you the morale was lifted tremendously by seeing Secretary Rumsfeld and the chairman of the joint staff over here.
They added a lot to the day, the troops always love hearing the secretary of defense and the chairman and yes, that gave us a morale boost.
HEMMER: On a discussion about the handover yesterday in Congress, Marc Grossman, who is the undersecretary of state for political affairs, had this to say about the eventuality down the road. Listen to him and we'll talk about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMBASSADOR MARC GROSSMAN, UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR POL. AFFAIRS: Any time after sovereignty is given to whatever entity exists, and they ask our troops to leave, will our troops leave?
I mean, that's what Mr. Ackerman (ph) was asking. I believe, sir, that as the TAM (ph) is -- will they leave or won't they and Mr. Ackerman was right.
I mean, I think if you look at the transition administrative law and U.N. Security Council 1511, Iraqis have said that they would like our forces to stay and if they ask us to leave when they have sovereignty we will leave, will we not?
I mean, what's this -- of course. Is the answer yes? If they ask us to leave -- let me go back. I do not -- is the answer yes? No, that's not -- is the answer yes?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Marc Grossman from yesterday.
The question is this, Mr. Senor, if the new government in Iraq asked the United States military to leave prior to elections in 2005, will the U.S. honor that?
SENOR: You know, Bill, I don't want to have a speculative discussion here about future discussions between an American -- between the American government and the future Iraqi government.
I can tell you that the United States of America has a partnership relationship with multiple countries around the world where we have troops stationed around the world. We do not station troops in countries where our troops are not welcomed.
The fact is the overwhelming majority of Iraqis want an American security presence here after June 30.
The overwhelming majority of Iraqis recognize that there will still be a significant terrorist threat in this country after June 30 and that their own Iraqi security forces won't be in a position to defend against that threat on their own.
There is this desire for American forces to still be here and we think that will be the basis upon which this partnership will be formed. It's really not a concern we have here on the ground.
HEMMER: Dan Senor and Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt live in Baghdad. Thank you, gentlemen for your time today.
SENOR: Good to be with you.
KIMMITT: Thank you.
HEMMER: Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Now more on the twists in the story of the American Nicholas Berg. As we mentioned, government sources tell CNN that there was a tangential relationship between Berg and accused terrorist Zacharias Moussaui.
CNN justice correspondent Kelli Arena now with details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: The ties between Nicholas Berg and Zacharias Moussaui, the only person charged in the U.S. in connection to 9/11, trace back to Oklahoma. MICHAEL BERG, FATHER OF NICHOLAS BERG: Nick went to Oklahoma University and he was taking a course at the remote campus and you're on a bus -- that remote campus was near the airport where some terrorist people who no one knew were terrorists at the time.
They were just fellow students -- were also taking that bus, and someone asked him how they -- how they -- asked him basically to let them use his computer and he did.
ARENA: U.S. officials say Berg shared his computer and his password with one individual, and that password somehow ended up in Moussaui's possession.
BERG: It turned out that this guy was a terrorist and that he -- you know -- used my son's e-mail, amongst many other people's e-mail, who he did the same thing to.
ARENA: The FBI tracked down Berg, and his father said his son cooperated fully.
Michael Berg said the incident happened several years ago. Moussaui took flight lessons in Oklahoma in 2001.
It's a curious twist, and some suggest a possible reason the FBI felt compelled to interview Berg three times in Iraq before clearing him for release.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Nicholas Berg's father, Michael Berg, said the FBI investigated that Moussaui matter more than a year ago and he stressed that his son was in no way connected to terrorists.
HEMMER: Folks in a small town in Minnesota -- Roseau is the name of the town -- apparently beating back a flood there.
This week's heavy rains pushed the river over flood stage. Overnight the river reached a crest level of 201/2 feet. Extensive sandbagging by residents paid off there -- no flooded structures; evacuation has been reported. The river should stay at flood levels we are told for the next 24 hours.
So good luck up there in Minnesota.
O'BRIEN: And good work so far.
Still to come this morning preparing to face military justice. We're going to hear from the father of one of the soldiers now charged in that prisoner abuse scandal. That's coming up next.
HEMMER: Also record travel numbers expected this summer. Can the airlines bounce back? Andy takes a look at that on a Friday in a moment here.
O'BRIEN: And farewell to "Fraiser." Our "90-Second Pop" panel ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
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O'BRIEN: Three soldiers charged in the Iraq prisoner abuse scandal will face military justice next week.
On Wednesday Army Spc. Jeremy Sivits gets a special court martial, which is about equivalent to a misdemeanor. Then he is expected to plead guilty and testify against the others.
On Thursday, Staff Sgt. Ivan "Chip" Frederick and Sgt. Javal Davis are expected to be arraigned on more serious charges at what's called a general court martial.
In one statement made to investigators, published today, Sivits is quoted as saying; "Davis has stomped on either the fingers or toes of the detainees. When he stomped, the detainees -- they were in pain, because the detainees would scream loudly."
Sgt. Davis' father, Jonathan, joins us this morning along with his attorney, Paul Bergrin. Nice to see you, gentlemen. Thanks for coming in to talk to me.
JONATHAN DAVIS, FATHER OF SGT. JAVAL DAVIS: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Davis, first, when was the last time that you talked to your son and what's his frame of mind right now as he faces this military action?
DAVIS: Well, actually, I talked to him just this morning, and he's keeping his spirits up, you know. He's very, very concerned about the goings on here in the States and what's happening.
And what's happening with him abroad, you know. But he's keeping God first and, you know, he has support from his family.
O'BRIEN: Here is what he is charged with. Conspiracy to maltreat detainees, dereliction of duty, assault, and giving false official statements.
Has he explained to you what happened and why he's facing these charges?
DAVIS: Yes he has. My son is just -- he's a good solider. They were directed to do a job and that's exactly what he did.
And this is a -- I think it was just a ploy or whatever have you to put it all on the smaller, on the smaller guys.
As I play chess, you know. They are just pawns, you know. There are bigger people behind this.
O'BRIEN: Who are the bigger guys who told him in his words to do this?
DAVIS: Well, you have special ops or CIA or they have outside contractors as they call them to -- to do the interrogation or whatever have you. And instructed them as well to take part in this.
O'BRIEN: In a report your son is quoted as saying I was made to do various things that I would question morally. So then explain to me why he would go ahead and do those things.
DAVIS: Well, when you are directed to -- when you are directed with an order, it's a catch-22, you know.
You don't want to be insubordinate because there are consequences with that. And giving the stress that they're going through, and everyday life there, you know, you have to do what you're told. You know, so, I mean...
O'BRIEN: Does that mean, though, that he's admitting going over the line? Is he admitting to abusing prisoners?
DAVIS: No. No. He's not.
O'BRIEN: So then what's he saying that he did that he felt was wrong morally?
PAUL BERGRIN, ATTORNEY FOR SOLIDER ACCUSED OF PRISONER ABUSE: I can answer that question. He's never made any admission that he did anything morally -- what happened -- he's a soldier -- he's been there for 13 months under the most deplorable, inhumane conditions.
Any human being, nonetheless a soldier, had to experience. He's been working anywhere from 14 to 18 hour shifts, seven days a week without any breaks whatsoever. He's been there for 13 months and he's kept this schedule up.
There's absolutely no chaplains to talk to; nobody to go to for guidance, leadership. On a consistent basis, almost a daily basis, he's told by military intelligence officers, civilian contractors, special agents from the CIA, FBI, that they're not getting enough information from these detainees.
And these are the most horrendous, dangerous, despicable human beings...
O'BRIEN: He's an MP, though, right?
BERGRIN: He's a military police officer, he's not a correction officer, he's not a intelligence officer, and he was trained as a military police officer.
He had no guidance or training as a correction officer and no guidance, training or education of the Geneva Convention.
O'BRIEN: Who'd he talk to, who'd he complain to? Because military officials would say when you read that litany of sort of the bad terrible conditions, the long days -- they'd say there are many, many people working under those conditions who are not on the verge of a court martial.
BERGRIN: Absolutely. But he's a soldier and as a soldier his obligation, his duty is to go up his chain of command.
O'BRIEN: And did he?
BERGRIN: And that's exactly what he did. He went to his chain of command; he questioned some of the interrogation techniques, some of the procedures...
O'BRIEN: What was he told?
BERGRIN: He was told that he's a soldier, to follow orders, and that intelligence wants additional information.
And if you get us the additional information, intelligence is ready -- is able to break these prisoners, they will save the lives of innocent soldiers on the outside, civilians, and individuals like Nicholas Berg.
O'BRIEN: So then is he admitting that he did some of those things and then I read you some of what Jeremy Sivits had to say -- you're saying that he was uncomfortable with things. Is he admitting that in fact that he did those things?
For example, the charge sheet says he forced detainees into a pile, jumped on them, accused him of stepping on the feet, striking a detainee in anger -- or is he saying I did those things but someone else commanded me to? Is that the defense?
BERGRIN: We intend to plead not guilty and we're confident that we will be vindicated of all the allegations. He did certain acts, but he didn't commit any criminal acts. He never stomped on anybody's feet, toes, hands.
He never jumped on piles of detainees that were unclothed and once this case is factually contested, we firmly -- we're firmly convinced and believe that the truth will come out and justice will be done in this case.
O'BRIEN: Well, good luck to you. Thanks for joining us this morning to talk about the case.
We're out of time -- I know you have something you want to add, but, unfortunately, we're really out of time. So we will continue to check in with you as this goes forward.
Mr. Davis and also Mr. Bergrin thanks a lot; we appreciate it -- Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, in a moment here, amid new twists in the story of Nicholas Berg, back to Baghdad, a talk with one of his friends this morning there.
And gas prices ticking ever higher. Can anything ease the pain at the pump?
Andy has a look after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: All right, welcome back everybody. As oil reaches record highs yet again will economic news this morning fuel the inflation jitters.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: No.
HEMMER: Check of the markets -- Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business," first check here on a Friday morning.
Where do we get some cheap oil?
SERWER: Good question. Canada; that's a whole other issue.
Let's talk about oil; obviously this is topic number one in the business world right now.
Breaking a 21-year record yesterday on the New York mercantile exchange. $41 and $22 and 22 cents a barrel -- I should say -- they started trading in 1983.
OK, in 1980 inflation adjusted was $78 a barrel, so we haven't hit that. Still, it doesn't make you feel any better.
Memo to Washington: isn't it time that this country got really serious about reducing our dependence on foreign oil?
I think you're going to hear a lot about that. Let's talk about inflation. At 8:30 today, consumer price index coming out. That's the inflation measure for the month of April.
We're looking at .3 percent. Anything higher than that and you're really looking at the Federal Reserve possibly raising interest rates in June instead of in August.
Yesterday the markets were mixed. The Dow is down a bit, you can see here. Tech stocks held up reasonably well. Again, though -- Bill -- higher oil prices and inflation jitters; traders trying to come to grips with what that's all about right now.
HEMMER: Quickly, talking about the airlines. Are they always hope for a boost in business come summertime; but yet United with problems.
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: You've got Delta with problems. You've got American.
SERWER: Well, the big thing now, of course, people talking about the bail out of the airline industry after 9/11. How successful was that? Well maybe not as successful as the government would have hoped.
$15 billion, now you're looking to big guys still in trouble. Delta, we talked about them. Warning about going into bankruptcy. They have to get something going with their pilots; they got a small concession the other day so they'll be able to continue flying over the summer. That's 8800 pilots flying 500 planes.
United now saying that it needs to extend its bankruptcy protection. It was supposed to come out of bankruptcy in June; now it's going to say it needs to stay through the end of the year. So the big ones are still in a lot of trouble and higher oil prices of course not helping the situation at all.
HEMMER: You're exactly right. Thank you, Andy -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Jack now and the Cafferty Files. Hello, and the "Question of the Day."
CAFFERTY: Hi, Mom. Thanks.
What a week it's been. Decapitation, images of abuse of Iraqi prisoners, American soldiers being killed and wounded, an ongoing struggle against the insurgents in Iraq, gasoline prices at all-time highs, going higher, the stock market going down, tornadoes ripping up the countryside, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Even "Friends" and "Frasier" all gone. Not exactly the version of current events we used to find in our "Weekly Reader" -- remember those? So here's the question: what are you doing to escape the horror of today's headlines? It's Friday; knock yourself out. am@cnn.com.
HEMMER: But don't change the channel.
CAFFERTY: Oh no, no, no.
SERWER: Comfort food; how about that? Right Soledad?
O'BRIEN: Totally; I find my solace in a big bowl of mashed potatoes; how about you all?
SERWER: Well. Cocktails. Friday afternoon.
HEMMER: Hey listen. It's happy hour somewhere.
SERWER: Yes, that's it.
O'BRIEN: Ah, no drinking for me. All right, still to come this morning, Dr. Crane says farewell as Jack mentioned after 11 years. "90-Second Pop" takes a look at the "Frasier" finale plus reality TV's dirty secrets exposed right here on AMERICAN MORNING.
And a big old shocker on "American Idol." That's ahead. Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
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