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American Morning

Hundreds of Prisoners Released From Abu Ghraib; Scott Peterson Case; Prehistoric Crater

Aired May 14, 2004 - 9:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. Nine o'clock here in New York.

Other stories this hour: the Scott Peterson murder trial running into new roadblocks. We'll look at what is happening there in that lengthy run-up to trial. Jeff Toobin has been looking into it. His insight in a moment here.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, long before a giant meteor killed all the dinosaurs, a giant meteor may have killed scores of prehistoric bugs.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: No.

O'BRIEN: You heard it hear first. And obviously bugs aren't as cool as dinosaurs. Ask any kid. This may have been actually one of the biggest events ever in the history of life on Earth. We're going to talk about that ahead.

HEMMER: Jack's chuckling.

CAFFERTY: Bestill my beating heart. How do you escape the horror of the headlines? Like the disappearance of all those prehistoric bugs and stuff. I mean, it's a scary thing. That's the e-mail question, what do you do to escape the horror of the headlines? It's been a tough week all around.

HEMMER: A tough couple of weeks.

CAFFERTY: So it's Friday. We're reading a little bit about how people get away from it all.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you, Jack. Top stories now.

And we begin in Iraq, where the population of Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison is being scaled back one day after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's visit there. The bus is filled with an estimated 315 inmates leaving the Baghdad area facility today. This is the first mass prisoner release since images of abuse surfaced. The next release is planned for May 21. We've got more on this story coming up in just a few moments.

The price tag on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan appear to be up for debate. Debuty Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz estimates that the military costs will top more than $50 billion next year. President Bush formerly proposed an initial $25 billion for next year's military activities. Critics have said the cost of combat will be closer to $75 billion.

In Maryland, a small plane went down in a residential neighborhood east of Baltimore-Washington International Airport. An airport spokesman says the pilot was killed in that crash. It's not clear at this time if anybody else was on board.

And in tennis, a decade after her last grand slam singles match, 47-year-old Martina Navratilova will play singles at the French Open. This according to a tournament spokesman yesterday. Navratilova won the French Open in 1982 and in 1984, and she holds 18 major singles championships. The French Open begins in just 10 days.

HEMMER: Well, good for her.

O'BRIEN: Wow! She is an inspiration, you know?

HEMMER: Yes. You stay young forever, right? Twenty years ago she won that title. We'll see how she does.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Hundreds of prisoners, more than 300, in fact, released early today from Abu Ghraib prison outside of Baghdad. That release comes after the surprise visit yesterday by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Now, prisoners have been released every week there from that prison, but today was a much larger group than previously.

Earlier today, we talked with Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, Dan Senor, senior adviser of the Coalition Provisional Authority, starting with Mr. Senor whether or not there is any connection between the prison abuse scandal and today's release. Here's Mr. Senor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SENOR, COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY ADVISER: I would say we have been engaged in a broad program that has been ongoing for a number of months to be releasing prisoners on a quite regular basis.

HEMMER: Well, the Red Cross is saying 70 to 90 percent of those being held have nothing to do with the insurgency. Do your coalition numbers match that of the Red Cross?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: They certainly don't. We are very careful about who we bring into Abu Ghraib prison. It is clear that they pose an imminent threat, an imperative threat to security. And we don't bring prisoners in, in large sweeps. We have reason to be keeping those people, and when those reasons no longer exist, then we release them.

HEMMER: The day after Secretary Rumsfeld visits Iraq, did the U.S. coalition there and others working in Iraq, did they need a moral boost? KIMMITT: Well, I don't think we specifically had a requirement for a morale boost, but I can tell you the morale was lifted tremendously by seeing Secretary Rumsfeld and the chairman of the joint staff over here. They added a lot to the day. The troops always love hearing the secretary of defense and the chairman, And, yes, that gave us a morale boost.

HEMMER: On a discussion about the handover yesterday in Congress, Marc Grossman, who is the undersecretary of state for political affairs, had this to say about the eventuality down the road. Listen here and we'll talk about it.

MARC GROSSMAN, UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: Any time after sovereignty is given to whatever entity exists, and they ask our troops to leave, will our troops leave? And that's what Mr. Ackerman was asking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe, sir, that as the TLA...

GROSSMAN: No, no, no. Will they or won't they? Mr. Ackerman is right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think if you look at the transition administrative law and you (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Iraqis have said they would like our forces to stay.

GROSSMAN: I know, but if they ask us to leave and they have sovereignty, we will leave. Will we not? I mean, what's this...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, of course.

GROSSMAN: Is the answer yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they ask us to leave -- let me go back. I do not believe...

GROSSMAN: Is the answer yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not believe they will ask us to, but sure.

GROSSMAN: No, that's not pertinent. Is the answer yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

HEMMER: Marc Grossman from yesterday. The question is this, Mr. Senor, if the government in Iraq asked the United States military to leave prior to elections in 2005 will the U.S. honor that?

SENOR: You know,, Bill, I don't want to have a speculative discussion here about future discussions between the American government and the future Iraqi government. I can tell you that the United States of America has a partnership relationship with multiple countries around the world where we have troops stationed around the world. We do not station troops in countries where our troops are not welcome. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of Iraqis want an American security presence here after June 30. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis recognize there will be a significant terrorist threat in this country after June 30, and that their own Iraqi security forces won't be in a position to defend against that threat on their own.

There is this desire for American forces to still be here. And we think that will be the basis upon which this partnership will be formed. It's really not a concern we have here on the ground.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Dan Senor, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt earlier today, live in Baghdad. By the way, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld arriving back in the U.S a bit earlier this morning.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: Well, the search for a jury has, once again, delayed the start of the Scott Peterson double murder trial. The judge has summoned an additional 300 potential jurors to court next week. Opening statements are scheduled for June 1. Senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joining us to talk about the Peterson case.

Good morning. Nice to see you.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Isn't this trial over yet?

O'BRIEN: You know, it hasn't even been started. What exactly is causing the delay? They've talked to 1,200 or so potential jurors.

TOOBIN: Well, the judge said he needed 70 jurors to be qualified to then let the lawyers exercise their challenges. He got about 71. But since jury selection has taken so long, some of the 71 who were originally qualified have said, no, no, no, I can't do this, this is going to take too long, I have personal needs. So he now needs to bring in more people to bring up the number so that the lawyers can exercise their preemptory challenges and get a real jury.

O'BRIEN: How unusual is this? Are you surprised by this or did we see this coming with this case?

TOOBIN: It is certainly unusual because, you know, this is such a high profile case and they've had to bring in so many jurors. Again, it's an illustration of how the California legal system operates on a completely different schedule for most of the rest of the country.

If there were -- this were Virginia, this trial would have been over about eight months ago, much less still be in jury selection. The other thing that's really horrifying about this is that the judge has said he expects this trial to last five months. You know, this is not the world's most complicated case. Why a case like this should last five months, I have no idea, but that's how California works.

O'BRIEN: So then delay -- or the delay again, who do you think that benefits? Is it the defense or the prosecution?

TOOBIN: I think it very much benefits the defense.

O'BRIEN: Why?

TOOBIN: Because delay, in general, helps the defense. Witnesses' memories fade, evidence gets lost, the passions of the moment cool. And I think especially in a case that is high profile, that there was a lot of emotions surrounding, you know, more time benefits the defense. The irony here is that Mark Garagos, the defense lawyer, asked to have a change of venue, but the delay has kind of worked like a change of venue.

O'BRIEN: I was going to ask you about that. They wanted to move to LA. And the judge said no, although there is this delay that has nothing to do with the change of venue request.

Do you agree with the decision? He said that his client couldn't get a fair trial, really, it sounds like, anywhere in northern California, Redwood City or Modesto or wherever.

TOOBIN: This case has already had one change of venue, and I never heard of a case that had a second change of venue. So I think it was an unsurprising decision and probably a right one. It's expensive to have changes of venue, moving the whole process and the evidence. And I think once was plenty.

O'BRIEN: How much do you think the case will cost at the end? You're talking about all of this and the five-month trial.

TOOBIN: I couldn't give you a exact figure, but certainly in the many millions of dollars.

O'BRIEN: We will a see. Jeffrey Toobin, as always, thanks.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad. About 10 minutes past the hour now.

A privately developed man rocket soared to more than 200,000 feet over the Mojave Desert in California yesterday. That craft called Spaceship One made the third rocket-powered flight from the company Space.com. It has a pilot on board designed to soar to the edge of space and then eventually glide to a runway landing. How about that for technology?

O'BRIEN: Pretty cool.

Still to come this morning, a bizarre twist in the murder of American hostage, Nicholas Berg, to a man who was suspected of helping plot the attacks on 9/11.

HEMMER: Also this morning, a fond farewell to America's favorite TV shrink. Frasier crane part of our "90-Second Pop" today.

O'BRIEN: And also, what are the origins of a meteor crater off the coast of Australia? We'll take a look at that ahead, as AMERICAN MORNING continues. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: More now on the strange developments in the story of slain American Nicholas Berg. Government sources telling CNN that Berg had a connection to accused 9/11 terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui.

Kelli Arena tries to make a link for us this morning in this new twist.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The ties between Nicholas Berg and Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person charged in the U.S. in connection to 9/11, trace back to Oklahoma.

MICHAEL BERG, FATHER OF NICHOLAS BERG: Nick went to Oklahoma University, and he was taking a course that was in a remote campus. And you're on a bus. That remote campus was near the airport where some terrorist people who no one knew were terrorists at the time, they were just fellow students, were also taking that bus. And someone asked him how to -- asked them basically to let them use his computer, and he did.

ARENA: U.S. officials say Berg shared his computer and his password with one individual, and that password somehow ended up in Moussaoui's possession.

BERG: It turned out that this guy was a terrorist and that he, you know, used my son's e-mail, amongst many other people's e-mail, who he did the same thing to.

ARENA: The FBI tracked down Berg, and his father said his son cooperated fully. Michael Berg said the incident happened several years ago. Moussaoui took flight lessons in Oklahoma in 2001.

(on camera): It's a curious twist, and some suggest a possible reason the FBI felt compelled to interview Berg three times in Iraq before clearing him for release. Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: The Berg family holds a private memorial in the hometown of West Chester, Pennsylvania, later today. Larry Hodge did business with Nick Berg. He joins us to talk more about the life of Nick.

And just at the outset, Larry, did he ever mention to you in connection this connection with Zacarias Moussaoui going back to 1999?

LARRY HODGE, WORKED WITH BERG: No, absolutely not. We didn't even talk politics in terms of whether he was for the war or against the war. Basically, he was contracted for us to do a technical job and sell a broadcast antenna, and our discussions were limited to technical things. He talked nothing of politics, let alone that. I was flabbergasted when I began hearing the reports about that. HEMMER: What does it say about him as a businessman? Or what does it say about him as a person to go to Iraq during this period of war?

HODGE: Well, Nick was the kind of fellow that looked at everything with rose-colored glasses. I don't believe he really understood how evil people could be. He looked for the best in people.

He was a very positive person. He treated his employees very well. He treated his clients, including us, very well. Everything was, "Yes, sir, no, sir."

He taught his employees to treat the client well. He was very safe when he was climbing the tower. That's a very dangerous job, and he wouldn't climb if winds were exceeding a certain speed. He made sure all his rigging was safe for his employees.

And he was just a very positive person. Ultimately, that's probably what led him into the difficulty, because he could only see the best in man. But he found the worst.

HEMMER: We've heard so many wonderful things said about this young man, age 26, and what a loss it is for his family and his friends. Curious to know, he traveled alone based on what I can tell, reading his e-mails throughout Iraq. Some suggested he was naive and others say he was fearless. Was he both, was he either?

HODGE: Well, he was eager and fearless. Of course, he had a company from (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Tower Service (ph) and he was looking to build business for that company. The tower business in the United States is competitive, and a lot of people want jobs. And Iraq was lucrative in terms of the money over there.

Obviously, much work because of the destruction. And he was looking for work. I think he was looking to subcontract with some larger firms. But he really had no particular connection, nor was he under the especial protection of these larger firms. And that's what got him in trouble. He just kind of felt he could wander around there and everybody would be fine and nice. And he just didn't see the danger.

HEMMER: Larry, did you ever tap into his motivation? What drove him?

HODGE: Well, he had basically two motivations. He was a humanitarian, an idealist. He wanted to help people.

It's been reported that he gave food when he was in Uganda and he was that kind of fellow. You could tell by the way he treated people that he was -- he cared about people. That was, of course, one motive. And the other motive was monetary.

He wanted to build his business. He wanted his business to succeed. And we don't know why his other employees didn't go with him. Perhaps because he had no solid contracts, perhaps he was afraid for their safety. We'll never know. But he traveled alone, as far as we know, all of the time he was there.

HEMMER: Thanks, Larry. Remembering him again today. Larry Hodge, thanks, from Binghamton, New York.

HODGE: Thank you.

HEMMER: Soledad?

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, a U.S. soldier set for court-martial in the prison abuse scandal. Details of his account of what took place at Abu Ghraib prison. We're going to take a closer look at that.

And also, the Iraqi holy city of Najaf once again the scene of violence today. We'll have the very latest on the situation there.

Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody. Opening bell a few seconds away.

Back to the abuse scandal, though, those prisoners. In a minute, Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon, looking into court-martial proceedings. Some interesting comments attributed to one of the men scheduled to stand trial regarding the chain of command. Published reports out today, and a lot of comments, too.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, long before the dinosaurs got unlucky with meteors, did another giant space rock kill off nearly all the life on Earth? And just what was that life at that time? We're going to talk about that just ahead.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

HEMMER: Back to our top stories now.

From Iraq, a day originally planned to be one of peaceful demonstrations turning violent. The streets of the town of Najaf filled with gunfire and grenades. U.S. forces battling members of the Mehdi Army there, the militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Witnesses say they heard a series of loud explosions and saw black smoke hours after the fighting broke out. Much more on that throughout the day here.

Nicholas Berg, the American beheaded in Iraq, will be honored today in a private memorial in his hometown of West Chester, Washington. U.S. intelligence officials say it is highly likely that suspected terrorist leader Abu al-Zarqawi issued the grizzly -- or carried out, rather, that grizzly murder. Zarqawi is considered an ally, an associate of Osama bin laden.

Police have cleared a second man accused of sexual assault at the University of Colorado. Two of the university's football players underwent DNA testing after a woman reported they had sexually assaulted her in August of 2002. The allegations came to light after the school's athletics department was accused of using sex and alcohol at football recruiting events.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: We've got new information this morning on the abuse of Iraqi prisoners from Jeremy Sivits, the first soldier who is facing court-martial. Barbara Starr live for us at the Pentagon this morning.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.

Well, as you say, the court-martial of Jeremy Sivits begins in Baghdad on Wednesday. And now his statement to investigators is being made public by some defense attorneys involved in the case. Now, all of the details we're about to tell you, of course, are just Jeremy Sivits' statement. We have not heard from other people charged.

But Specialist Sivits describes Corporal Charles Greneer (ph) and Sergeant Javal Davis as involved, saying in one instance Javal Davis ran across the floor, jumped on a pile of Iraqi men. Here's what he says...

"A couple of detainees made an 'ah' sound as if this hurt them or caused them some type of pain when Davis would land on them. After Davis had done this, Davis then stomped on either the fingers or toes of the detainees. When he stomped the detainees, they were in pain because the detainees would scream loudly."

Specialist Sivits in another part of his statement says, Soledad, that when Corporal Charles Greneer (ph) hit one detainee, the man begged Greneer (ph) to stop by saying, "Mr., Mr., please stop." The statement of Jeremy Sivits -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: It's a pretty graphic description as he goes on and on and talks about the other things that other people did. Why did he not -- or did he ever go to the authorities, and people up the ranks and complain?

STARR: Well, indeed, he was asked that by investigators, "Did you ever report this to your chain of command?" Here is what he said. He said, "I was asked not to, and I tried to be friends with everyone. I see now where trying be friends with everyone can cost you." So, again, the statement of Jeremy Sivits, facing court-martial on Wednesday in Baghdad.

O'BRIEN: Of course, Barbara, others are saying that he's just trying to deflect blame from himself. We will see what happens in the court-martial. Barbara Starr for us at the Pentagon this morning. Barbara, thanks.

Bill? HEMMER: Now to science. Long before dinosaurs roamed the Earth 250 million years ago, give or take, scientists think a meteor hit the Earth. The impact caused what's called The Great Dying, the largest extension of plant life in Earth's history.

Denton Ebel is with us now, a geologist and assistant curator of meteorites at the American Museum of Natural History here in New York City.

Good to see you. Good morning.

DENTON EBEL, AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY: Good morning.

HEMMER: Two hundred and fifty million years ago, what did this planet look like?

EBEL: A long time ago.

HEMMER: Yes, a long time ago.

EBEL: Well, geologists in the theory of plate tectonics have been able deduce that the planet was -- most of the land was in one land mass called Pangea. It went from the North to the South Pole in one hemisphere if the Earth...

HEMMER: So we were all connected by land and water.

EBEL: Mostly water.

HEMMER: Now, this is a graphic simulation here of an asteroid hitting the Earth. At that time, what would the impact have been?

EBEL: The impact would be huge. This is the same order of magnitude impact that we see much more recently at 65 million years ago off the Yucatan Peninsula. And this, of course, is the impact that killed off most of the dinosaur species at that time and paved the way for us.

HEMMER: Now, there is thought that off the northwestern coast of Australia, about a hundred miles, I believe, that's where the impact for this meteorite took place. Now it's been apparently discovered. What is there that we know of?

EBEL: Well, there is still a lot of debate as to was this an impact crater. After all, it's in 250 feet of water, but then two miles of sediments before you get to what is the trace perhaps of this impact. But this was drilled 30 years ago by oil companies, and this drill core sat in a warehouse in Australia for 30 years.

One paper written about six years ago said this might be a crater. But this team actually went and looked at this drill core. And thank goodness museums and other organizations such as oil companies keep this important rock around so people can go back and look at it later.

HEMMER: What did they find from this? They put it on the shelf for 30 years, they pull it out, and it tells us what?

EBEL: Well, it has fragments called impact brecha (ph), and this is fragmented pulverized stuff, like you get off debris when you tear up the streets. And it's all -- of course, when you have an impact like that, it goes up in the air. Most of it comes back down pretty close to where it came from. And we see this very, very strikingly at the impact at Chicsalub (ph), of course, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

HEMMER: Now you're getting a little bit over my head right now. It is Friday.

EBEL: Well, these are two impacts. And ever since we really came up with a smoking gun for this impact of the dinosaur extinction, people have been looking very hard for other signs. And this impact, this extinction, 250 million years ago, is, by far, much larger. Globally, huge percentage, 70 percent, 90 percent of the creatures that lived in the ocean and the land.

HEMMER: Hang on one second here. Put it in my terms, you know?

If you were able to do the research to make your conclusions based on whether or not this asteroid hit it that part off the northwestern coast of Australia, how would it benefit you? What would it say about the dying off theory, what would it tell us about 250 million years ago? And if you can, in 15 seconds, why does it matter now?

EBEL: It tells us about evolution of life on Earth. It also tells us what the probabilities are of future events that might effect us. We know, and NASA has been searching for, and people all over the world have been searching for big objects, 10 kilometers, which is about five, six, seven, eight, mile wide bodies that are out there. And we know where most of them are. So we think we're pretty safe.

HEMMER: Well, a good thing it's the weekend, because now we have three days to think about it.

EBEL: Don't think too hard about it.

HEMMER: Denton Ebel, nice to see you. Have a good time.

EBEL: It's going to be a great weekend, by the way.

HEMMER: Thank you very much. You got it.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: Still to come, Andy's 'Minding Your Business.' He's going to have more on the U.S. Bank slapped, with a huge fine for money laundering with possible connections to Saudi Arabia.

And the last episodes of TV's "Frasier." Dr. Crane bids adieu. That's straight ahead on "90-Second Pop."

Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: The bank of the president gets slapped with a hefty fine. Plus, Wall Street reacting now to the economic numbers you guys were talking about, about an hour ago, huh?

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Yes. We have been talking about this CPI. Mostly, we've been scratching our heads because it's sort of all over the place. Inflation is not so bad, but the core was up more than expected. That doesn't include energy prices.

You don't have to worry about it too much back at home. Basically, a mixed inflation report. That's how we'll categorize it this morning.

Stocks dancing around. Also, trying to figure out what's going on here. Up a little bit, you can see here, but we've been basically back and forth.

The bigger news, I think, is oil at $42 a barrel, almost a 21- year high there, and that is really not good news. Let's skip right into this Riggs Bank situation.

HEMMER: What is Riggs Bank?

SERWER: Riggs Bank is one of the nation's most powerful, yet least known, entities. It's a bank in Washington, D.C. Most presidents have had accounts there, as well as famous people, like Francis Scott Key. And Davie Crockett helped finance the Alaska purchase.

All kinds of interesting stuff going on. However, a lot of diplomats have accounts there as well. Now they're fined $25 million because they have allowed tens of millions of dollars in cash to be withdrawn from accounts related to the Saudi Arabian embassy. A ver interesting story there that we'll probably be hearing more about over the next couple of days.

Meanwhile, somewhere in New Jersey...

HEMMER: It's happy hour.

SERWER: ... it's happy hour. This has been a recurring theme today, has it not, Bill? I think someone's got...

O'BRIEN: You know what? Absolutely. It's 9:47.

SERWER: Well, for Bill Hemmer, it's happy hour, I guess.

Richland, New Jersey, has been renamed Mohito (ph), New Jersey, for two weeks. Bacardi, the rum company, has paid them $5,000 to do this to promote their rum. Of course, a lot of mint is grown in Richland, New Jersey, which is an element of the Mohito (ph), along with rum and sugarcane, which brings to mind maybe some other towns that could get renamed.

HEMMER: Such as?

SERWER: Well, what about Screwdriver, New Jersey, or Bloody Mary, Montana? And how about Cosmopolitan, Wisconsin?

O'BRIEN: Not bad. I like that one.

SERWER: We'll go to Cosmopolitan, Wisconsin.

O'BRIEN: I vote for that one.

HEMMER: How about just Manhattan, New York?

SERWER: Manhattan -- Manhattan, very good.

O'BRIEN: That was a good one.

HEMMER: Thanks, Andy.

SERWER: All right. You're welcome. Have a good one.

O'BRIEN: Thank you. Likewise.

Still to come this morning, help for mothers-to-be while the fathers are serving in Iraq. That story is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Each Friday, in our series, "Extra Effort," we pay tribute to those who are going the extra mile to help others. This morning, we take a look at a unique program providing free services to pregnant women whose husbands are serving in Iraq. It's called Operation Doula Care. And in North Carolina, one expected mother is getting to know the woman who will be by her side on delivery day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): When Maria Donaldson was born three years ago, her father was there. But three months ago, Troy Donaldson left his family in Ft. Brag and went to Iraq with the Army Special Forces Command. He won't be there when his wife, Debbie, gives birth to their second daughter in July.

But Christine Ahrens will. Christine is a Doula, a Greek word meaning a mother's mother. Today, that translates into women trained to provide emotional and physical support to moms during childbirth. So Christine will be there throughout Debbie's delivery to shower here with the comfort and encouragement her husband would give her if he could.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Joining us this morning from Raleigh, North Carolina, is Christine Ahrens, the volunteer doula, and also Debbie Donaldson, who, as we mentioned, is expecting her second child come July. Nice to see both of you. Thanks for being with us. Debbie, let's start with you. I know that you're in the middle of a high-risk pregnancy. You had an automobile accident, and I know you're recovering pretty well. And also, I know you had a tough time getting pregnant the second time around. So how is it going so far?

DEBBIE DONALDSON, PREGNANT WIFE TO SOLDIER IN IRAQ: Better than the first time actually. I have to admit.

O'BRIEN: That's just because you're busier. You don't realize it. Tell me a little bit about your decision-making process with your husband, Troy, because you could of said --with a high-risk pregnancy, you could have said, Troy, don't go, and they would of let him stay home. Why not do that?

DONALDSON: Because I'm not that kind of wife. I'm not the kind of person to say, oh, yes, don't go do your job so that you can stay here and pamper me. No. I told him to go. It's what he wanted to do.

O'BRIEN: Do you think Christine is going to be a good replacement or a decent replacement for Troy, who can't be with you?

DONALDSON: Oh, yes. Troy really didn't know what he was doing the first time, but either did I.

O'BRIEN: You know what? And as you have more kids, they don't get any better. I'll just give you that kind of advice. Tell me a little bit, Christine, about what kinds of things you're going to be doing in the delivery room? What exactly does a doula do?

CHRISTINE AHRENS, AIDE TO DONALDSON: Well, before the delivery room, I will be educating Debbie on her choices for setting up what she wants for her birth, what her most perfect birth that she could picture being, that's what I do beforehand. During the birth, I'm going to do as most as I possibly can to help her achieve those goals, help her breathing, help her -- massage therapy, just keeping her very relaxed, a very positive experience during her birth.

O'BRIEN: So you work in concert with the doctors then in the delivery room?

AHRENS: Oh, yes, yes. We never get in the way. We work side by side with them. We try to do what is best health wise, of course, but we are there for the mother to give her emotional support.

O'BRIEN: Well, good for you. Christine Ahrens, the doula, and also, Debbie Donaldson, congratulations. I'm a month behind you, so let me know how it goes. Best wishes to you. Take care.

DONALDSON: Thank you.

AHRENS: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: Great story. Coming up next hour here on CNN, the latest on what's happening in the prisoner abuse scandal. There are new allegations out today in print. We'll get you live to the Pentagon for more on that. Allegations from soldier against soldier. Betty Nguyen has that next hour on "CNN LIVE TODAY."

We're back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Listen, have a great weekend. We'll see you again here on Monday morning here on AMERICAN MORNING.

To Betty Nguyen at the CNN Center now working for Daryn Kagan in Atlanta.

Good morning to you. Happy Friday.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good morning. Jack is just such a happy-go-lucky guy, isn't he?

O'BRIEN: Betty, are you talking to us? Because we cannot hear you at all.

NGUYEN: Oh, I said Jack is such a happy-go-lucky guy.

O'BRIEN: Who, Jack?

NGUYEN: Full of fun.

HEMMER: Oh, yes.

NGUYEN: All right. Good morning to you both.

From the CNN headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Daryn Kagan.

U.S. forces make their biggest push into the holy city of Najaf, attacking positioned held by Muqtada al-Sadr's militia. Much of the fighting is going on less than a mile from the holiest Shiite shrines. U.S. military officials say a number of militiamen have been captured.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair is staying in step with President Bush on Iraq. Speaking about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal with a British newspaper, Mr. Blair said, "The most important thing is that we work with our coalition partners to sort it out."


Aired May 14, 2004 - 9:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. Nine o'clock here in New York.

Other stories this hour: the Scott Peterson murder trial running into new roadblocks. We'll look at what is happening there in that lengthy run-up to trial. Jeff Toobin has been looking into it. His insight in a moment here.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, long before a giant meteor killed all the dinosaurs, a giant meteor may have killed scores of prehistoric bugs.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: No.

O'BRIEN: You heard it hear first. And obviously bugs aren't as cool as dinosaurs. Ask any kid. This may have been actually one of the biggest events ever in the history of life on Earth. We're going to talk about that ahead.

HEMMER: Jack's chuckling.

CAFFERTY: Bestill my beating heart. How do you escape the horror of the headlines? Like the disappearance of all those prehistoric bugs and stuff. I mean, it's a scary thing. That's the e-mail question, what do you do to escape the horror of the headlines? It's been a tough week all around.

HEMMER: A tough couple of weeks.

CAFFERTY: So it's Friday. We're reading a little bit about how people get away from it all.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you, Jack. Top stories now.

And we begin in Iraq, where the population of Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison is being scaled back one day after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's visit there. The bus is filled with an estimated 315 inmates leaving the Baghdad area facility today. This is the first mass prisoner release since images of abuse surfaced. The next release is planned for May 21. We've got more on this story coming up in just a few moments.

The price tag on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan appear to be up for debate. Debuty Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz estimates that the military costs will top more than $50 billion next year. President Bush formerly proposed an initial $25 billion for next year's military activities. Critics have said the cost of combat will be closer to $75 billion.

In Maryland, a small plane went down in a residential neighborhood east of Baltimore-Washington International Airport. An airport spokesman says the pilot was killed in that crash. It's not clear at this time if anybody else was on board.

And in tennis, a decade after her last grand slam singles match, 47-year-old Martina Navratilova will play singles at the French Open. This according to a tournament spokesman yesterday. Navratilova won the French Open in 1982 and in 1984, and she holds 18 major singles championships. The French Open begins in just 10 days.

HEMMER: Well, good for her.

O'BRIEN: Wow! She is an inspiration, you know?

HEMMER: Yes. You stay young forever, right? Twenty years ago she won that title. We'll see how she does.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HEMMER: Hundreds of prisoners, more than 300, in fact, released early today from Abu Ghraib prison outside of Baghdad. That release comes after the surprise visit yesterday by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Now, prisoners have been released every week there from that prison, but today was a much larger group than previously.

Earlier today, we talked with Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt, Dan Senor, senior adviser of the Coalition Provisional Authority, starting with Mr. Senor whether or not there is any connection between the prison abuse scandal and today's release. Here's Mr. Senor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SENOR, COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY ADVISER: I would say we have been engaged in a broad program that has been ongoing for a number of months to be releasing prisoners on a quite regular basis.

HEMMER: Well, the Red Cross is saying 70 to 90 percent of those being held have nothing to do with the insurgency. Do your coalition numbers match that of the Red Cross?

BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: They certainly don't. We are very careful about who we bring into Abu Ghraib prison. It is clear that they pose an imminent threat, an imperative threat to security. And we don't bring prisoners in, in large sweeps. We have reason to be keeping those people, and when those reasons no longer exist, then we release them.

HEMMER: The day after Secretary Rumsfeld visits Iraq, did the U.S. coalition there and others working in Iraq, did they need a moral boost? KIMMITT: Well, I don't think we specifically had a requirement for a morale boost, but I can tell you the morale was lifted tremendously by seeing Secretary Rumsfeld and the chairman of the joint staff over here. They added a lot to the day. The troops always love hearing the secretary of defense and the chairman, And, yes, that gave us a morale boost.

HEMMER: On a discussion about the handover yesterday in Congress, Marc Grossman, who is the undersecretary of state for political affairs, had this to say about the eventuality down the road. Listen here and we'll talk about it.

MARC GROSSMAN, UNDERSECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: Any time after sovereignty is given to whatever entity exists, and they ask our troops to leave, will our troops leave? And that's what Mr. Ackerman was asking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe, sir, that as the TLA...

GROSSMAN: No, no, no. Will they or won't they? Mr. Ackerman is right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think if you look at the transition administrative law and you (UNINTELLIGIBLE), Iraqis have said they would like our forces to stay.

GROSSMAN: I know, but if they ask us to leave and they have sovereignty, we will leave. Will we not? I mean, what's this...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, of course.

GROSSMAN: Is the answer yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they ask us to leave -- let me go back. I do not believe...

GROSSMAN: Is the answer yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not believe they will ask us to, but sure.

GROSSMAN: No, that's not pertinent. Is the answer yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

HEMMER: Marc Grossman from yesterday. The question is this, Mr. Senor, if the government in Iraq asked the United States military to leave prior to elections in 2005 will the U.S. honor that?

SENOR: You know,, Bill, I don't want to have a speculative discussion here about future discussions between the American government and the future Iraqi government. I can tell you that the United States of America has a partnership relationship with multiple countries around the world where we have troops stationed around the world. We do not station troops in countries where our troops are not welcome. The fact is, the overwhelming majority of Iraqis want an American security presence here after June 30. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis recognize there will be a significant terrorist threat in this country after June 30, and that their own Iraqi security forces won't be in a position to defend against that threat on their own.

There is this desire for American forces to still be here. And we think that will be the basis upon which this partnership will be formed. It's really not a concern we have here on the ground.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: Dan Senor, Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt earlier today, live in Baghdad. By the way, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld arriving back in the U.S a bit earlier this morning.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: Well, the search for a jury has, once again, delayed the start of the Scott Peterson double murder trial. The judge has summoned an additional 300 potential jurors to court next week. Opening statements are scheduled for June 1. Senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin joining us to talk about the Peterson case.

Good morning. Nice to see you.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Isn't this trial over yet?

O'BRIEN: You know, it hasn't even been started. What exactly is causing the delay? They've talked to 1,200 or so potential jurors.

TOOBIN: Well, the judge said he needed 70 jurors to be qualified to then let the lawyers exercise their challenges. He got about 71. But since jury selection has taken so long, some of the 71 who were originally qualified have said, no, no, no, I can't do this, this is going to take too long, I have personal needs. So he now needs to bring in more people to bring up the number so that the lawyers can exercise their preemptory challenges and get a real jury.

O'BRIEN: How unusual is this? Are you surprised by this or did we see this coming with this case?

TOOBIN: It is certainly unusual because, you know, this is such a high profile case and they've had to bring in so many jurors. Again, it's an illustration of how the California legal system operates on a completely different schedule for most of the rest of the country.

If there were -- this were Virginia, this trial would have been over about eight months ago, much less still be in jury selection. The other thing that's really horrifying about this is that the judge has said he expects this trial to last five months. You know, this is not the world's most complicated case. Why a case like this should last five months, I have no idea, but that's how California works.

O'BRIEN: So then delay -- or the delay again, who do you think that benefits? Is it the defense or the prosecution?

TOOBIN: I think it very much benefits the defense.

O'BRIEN: Why?

TOOBIN: Because delay, in general, helps the defense. Witnesses' memories fade, evidence gets lost, the passions of the moment cool. And I think especially in a case that is high profile, that there was a lot of emotions surrounding, you know, more time benefits the defense. The irony here is that Mark Garagos, the defense lawyer, asked to have a change of venue, but the delay has kind of worked like a change of venue.

O'BRIEN: I was going to ask you about that. They wanted to move to LA. And the judge said no, although there is this delay that has nothing to do with the change of venue request.

Do you agree with the decision? He said that his client couldn't get a fair trial, really, it sounds like, anywhere in northern California, Redwood City or Modesto or wherever.

TOOBIN: This case has already had one change of venue, and I never heard of a case that had a second change of venue. So I think it was an unsurprising decision and probably a right one. It's expensive to have changes of venue, moving the whole process and the evidence. And I think once was plenty.

O'BRIEN: How much do you think the case will cost at the end? You're talking about all of this and the five-month trial.

TOOBIN: I couldn't give you a exact figure, but certainly in the many millions of dollars.

O'BRIEN: We will a see. Jeffrey Toobin, as always, thanks.

HEMMER: All right, Soledad. About 10 minutes past the hour now.

A privately developed man rocket soared to more than 200,000 feet over the Mojave Desert in California yesterday. That craft called Spaceship One made the third rocket-powered flight from the company Space.com. It has a pilot on board designed to soar to the edge of space and then eventually glide to a runway landing. How about that for technology?

O'BRIEN: Pretty cool.

Still to come this morning, a bizarre twist in the murder of American hostage, Nicholas Berg, to a man who was suspected of helping plot the attacks on 9/11.

HEMMER: Also this morning, a fond farewell to America's favorite TV shrink. Frasier crane part of our "90-Second Pop" today.

O'BRIEN: And also, what are the origins of a meteor crater off the coast of Australia? We'll take a look at that ahead, as AMERICAN MORNING continues. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: More now on the strange developments in the story of slain American Nicholas Berg. Government sources telling CNN that Berg had a connection to accused 9/11 terrorist Zacarias Moussaoui.

Kelli Arena tries to make a link for us this morning in this new twist.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The ties between Nicholas Berg and Zacarias Moussaoui, the only person charged in the U.S. in connection to 9/11, trace back to Oklahoma.

MICHAEL BERG, FATHER OF NICHOLAS BERG: Nick went to Oklahoma University, and he was taking a course that was in a remote campus. And you're on a bus. That remote campus was near the airport where some terrorist people who no one knew were terrorists at the time, they were just fellow students, were also taking that bus. And someone asked him how to -- asked them basically to let them use his computer, and he did.

ARENA: U.S. officials say Berg shared his computer and his password with one individual, and that password somehow ended up in Moussaoui's possession.

BERG: It turned out that this guy was a terrorist and that he, you know, used my son's e-mail, amongst many other people's e-mail, who he did the same thing to.

ARENA: The FBI tracked down Berg, and his father said his son cooperated fully. Michael Berg said the incident happened several years ago. Moussaoui took flight lessons in Oklahoma in 2001.

(on camera): It's a curious twist, and some suggest a possible reason the FBI felt compelled to interview Berg three times in Iraq before clearing him for release. Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HEMMER: The Berg family holds a private memorial in the hometown of West Chester, Pennsylvania, later today. Larry Hodge did business with Nick Berg. He joins us to talk more about the life of Nick.

And just at the outset, Larry, did he ever mention to you in connection this connection with Zacarias Moussaoui going back to 1999?

LARRY HODGE, WORKED WITH BERG: No, absolutely not. We didn't even talk politics in terms of whether he was for the war or against the war. Basically, he was contracted for us to do a technical job and sell a broadcast antenna, and our discussions were limited to technical things. He talked nothing of politics, let alone that. I was flabbergasted when I began hearing the reports about that. HEMMER: What does it say about him as a businessman? Or what does it say about him as a person to go to Iraq during this period of war?

HODGE: Well, Nick was the kind of fellow that looked at everything with rose-colored glasses. I don't believe he really understood how evil people could be. He looked for the best in people.

He was a very positive person. He treated his employees very well. He treated his clients, including us, very well. Everything was, "Yes, sir, no, sir."

He taught his employees to treat the client well. He was very safe when he was climbing the tower. That's a very dangerous job, and he wouldn't climb if winds were exceeding a certain speed. He made sure all his rigging was safe for his employees.

And he was just a very positive person. Ultimately, that's probably what led him into the difficulty, because he could only see the best in man. But he found the worst.

HEMMER: We've heard so many wonderful things said about this young man, age 26, and what a loss it is for his family and his friends. Curious to know, he traveled alone based on what I can tell, reading his e-mails throughout Iraq. Some suggested he was naive and others say he was fearless. Was he both, was he either?

HODGE: Well, he was eager and fearless. Of course, he had a company from (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Tower Service (ph) and he was looking to build business for that company. The tower business in the United States is competitive, and a lot of people want jobs. And Iraq was lucrative in terms of the money over there.

Obviously, much work because of the destruction. And he was looking for work. I think he was looking to subcontract with some larger firms. But he really had no particular connection, nor was he under the especial protection of these larger firms. And that's what got him in trouble. He just kind of felt he could wander around there and everybody would be fine and nice. And he just didn't see the danger.

HEMMER: Larry, did you ever tap into his motivation? What drove him?

HODGE: Well, he had basically two motivations. He was a humanitarian, an idealist. He wanted to help people.

It's been reported that he gave food when he was in Uganda and he was that kind of fellow. You could tell by the way he treated people that he was -- he cared about people. That was, of course, one motive. And the other motive was monetary.

He wanted to build his business. He wanted his business to succeed. And we don't know why his other employees didn't go with him. Perhaps because he had no solid contracts, perhaps he was afraid for their safety. We'll never know. But he traveled alone, as far as we know, all of the time he was there.

HEMMER: Thanks, Larry. Remembering him again today. Larry Hodge, thanks, from Binghamton, New York.

HODGE: Thank you.

HEMMER: Soledad?

O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, a U.S. soldier set for court-martial in the prison abuse scandal. Details of his account of what took place at Abu Ghraib prison. We're going to take a closer look at that.

And also, the Iraqi holy city of Najaf once again the scene of violence today. We'll have the very latest on the situation there.

Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody. Opening bell a few seconds away.

Back to the abuse scandal, though, those prisoners. In a minute, Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon, looking into court-martial proceedings. Some interesting comments attributed to one of the men scheduled to stand trial regarding the chain of command. Published reports out today, and a lot of comments, too.

O'BRIEN: Also this morning, long before the dinosaurs got unlucky with meteors, did another giant space rock kill off nearly all the life on Earth? And just what was that life at that time? We're going to talk about that just ahead.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

HEMMER: Back to our top stories now.

From Iraq, a day originally planned to be one of peaceful demonstrations turning violent. The streets of the town of Najaf filled with gunfire and grenades. U.S. forces battling members of the Mehdi Army there, the militia loyal to radical cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Witnesses say they heard a series of loud explosions and saw black smoke hours after the fighting broke out. Much more on that throughout the day here.

Nicholas Berg, the American beheaded in Iraq, will be honored today in a private memorial in his hometown of West Chester, Washington. U.S. intelligence officials say it is highly likely that suspected terrorist leader Abu al-Zarqawi issued the grizzly -- or carried out, rather, that grizzly murder. Zarqawi is considered an ally, an associate of Osama bin laden.

Police have cleared a second man accused of sexual assault at the University of Colorado. Two of the university's football players underwent DNA testing after a woman reported they had sexually assaulted her in August of 2002. The allegations came to light after the school's athletics department was accused of using sex and alcohol at football recruiting events.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: We've got new information this morning on the abuse of Iraqi prisoners from Jeremy Sivits, the first soldier who is facing court-martial. Barbara Starr live for us at the Pentagon this morning.

Barbara, good morning.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.

Well, as you say, the court-martial of Jeremy Sivits begins in Baghdad on Wednesday. And now his statement to investigators is being made public by some defense attorneys involved in the case. Now, all of the details we're about to tell you, of course, are just Jeremy Sivits' statement. We have not heard from other people charged.

But Specialist Sivits describes Corporal Charles Greneer (ph) and Sergeant Javal Davis as involved, saying in one instance Javal Davis ran across the floor, jumped on a pile of Iraqi men. Here's what he says...

"A couple of detainees made an 'ah' sound as if this hurt them or caused them some type of pain when Davis would land on them. After Davis had done this, Davis then stomped on either the fingers or toes of the detainees. When he stomped the detainees, they were in pain because the detainees would scream loudly."

Specialist Sivits in another part of his statement says, Soledad, that when Corporal Charles Greneer (ph) hit one detainee, the man begged Greneer (ph) to stop by saying, "Mr., Mr., please stop." The statement of Jeremy Sivits -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: It's a pretty graphic description as he goes on and on and talks about the other things that other people did. Why did he not -- or did he ever go to the authorities, and people up the ranks and complain?

STARR: Well, indeed, he was asked that by investigators, "Did you ever report this to your chain of command?" Here is what he said. He said, "I was asked not to, and I tried to be friends with everyone. I see now where trying be friends with everyone can cost you." So, again, the statement of Jeremy Sivits, facing court-martial on Wednesday in Baghdad.

O'BRIEN: Of course, Barbara, others are saying that he's just trying to deflect blame from himself. We will see what happens in the court-martial. Barbara Starr for us at the Pentagon this morning. Barbara, thanks.

Bill? HEMMER: Now to science. Long before dinosaurs roamed the Earth 250 million years ago, give or take, scientists think a meteor hit the Earth. The impact caused what's called The Great Dying, the largest extension of plant life in Earth's history.

Denton Ebel is with us now, a geologist and assistant curator of meteorites at the American Museum of Natural History here in New York City.

Good to see you. Good morning.

DENTON EBEL, AMERICAN MUSEUM OF NATURAL HISTORY: Good morning.

HEMMER: Two hundred and fifty million years ago, what did this planet look like?

EBEL: A long time ago.

HEMMER: Yes, a long time ago.

EBEL: Well, geologists in the theory of plate tectonics have been able deduce that the planet was -- most of the land was in one land mass called Pangea. It went from the North to the South Pole in one hemisphere if the Earth...

HEMMER: So we were all connected by land and water.

EBEL: Mostly water.

HEMMER: Now, this is a graphic simulation here of an asteroid hitting the Earth. At that time, what would the impact have been?

EBEL: The impact would be huge. This is the same order of magnitude impact that we see much more recently at 65 million years ago off the Yucatan Peninsula. And this, of course, is the impact that killed off most of the dinosaur species at that time and paved the way for us.

HEMMER: Now, there is thought that off the northwestern coast of Australia, about a hundred miles, I believe, that's where the impact for this meteorite took place. Now it's been apparently discovered. What is there that we know of?

EBEL: Well, there is still a lot of debate as to was this an impact crater. After all, it's in 250 feet of water, but then two miles of sediments before you get to what is the trace perhaps of this impact. But this was drilled 30 years ago by oil companies, and this drill core sat in a warehouse in Australia for 30 years.

One paper written about six years ago said this might be a crater. But this team actually went and looked at this drill core. And thank goodness museums and other organizations such as oil companies keep this important rock around so people can go back and look at it later.

HEMMER: What did they find from this? They put it on the shelf for 30 years, they pull it out, and it tells us what?

EBEL: Well, it has fragments called impact brecha (ph), and this is fragmented pulverized stuff, like you get off debris when you tear up the streets. And it's all -- of course, when you have an impact like that, it goes up in the air. Most of it comes back down pretty close to where it came from. And we see this very, very strikingly at the impact at Chicsalub (ph), of course, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

HEMMER: Now you're getting a little bit over my head right now. It is Friday.

EBEL: Well, these are two impacts. And ever since we really came up with a smoking gun for this impact of the dinosaur extinction, people have been looking very hard for other signs. And this impact, this extinction, 250 million years ago, is, by far, much larger. Globally, huge percentage, 70 percent, 90 percent of the creatures that lived in the ocean and the land.

HEMMER: Hang on one second here. Put it in my terms, you know?

If you were able to do the research to make your conclusions based on whether or not this asteroid hit it that part off the northwestern coast of Australia, how would it benefit you? What would it say about the dying off theory, what would it tell us about 250 million years ago? And if you can, in 15 seconds, why does it matter now?

EBEL: It tells us about evolution of life on Earth. It also tells us what the probabilities are of future events that might effect us. We know, and NASA has been searching for, and people all over the world have been searching for big objects, 10 kilometers, which is about five, six, seven, eight, mile wide bodies that are out there. And we know where most of them are. So we think we're pretty safe.

HEMMER: Well, a good thing it's the weekend, because now we have three days to think about it.

EBEL: Don't think too hard about it.

HEMMER: Denton Ebel, nice to see you. Have a good time.

EBEL: It's going to be a great weekend, by the way.

HEMMER: Thank you very much. You got it.

Soledad?

O'BRIEN: Still to come, Andy's 'Minding Your Business.' He's going to have more on the U.S. Bank slapped, with a huge fine for money laundering with possible connections to Saudi Arabia.

And the last episodes of TV's "Frasier." Dr. Crane bids adieu. That's straight ahead on "90-Second Pop."

Stay with us. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HEMMER: The bank of the president gets slapped with a hefty fine. Plus, Wall Street reacting now to the economic numbers you guys were talking about, about an hour ago, huh?

ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Yes. We have been talking about this CPI. Mostly, we've been scratching our heads because it's sort of all over the place. Inflation is not so bad, but the core was up more than expected. That doesn't include energy prices.

You don't have to worry about it too much back at home. Basically, a mixed inflation report. That's how we'll categorize it this morning.

Stocks dancing around. Also, trying to figure out what's going on here. Up a little bit, you can see here, but we've been basically back and forth.

The bigger news, I think, is oil at $42 a barrel, almost a 21- year high there, and that is really not good news. Let's skip right into this Riggs Bank situation.

HEMMER: What is Riggs Bank?

SERWER: Riggs Bank is one of the nation's most powerful, yet least known, entities. It's a bank in Washington, D.C. Most presidents have had accounts there, as well as famous people, like Francis Scott Key. And Davie Crockett helped finance the Alaska purchase.

All kinds of interesting stuff going on. However, a lot of diplomats have accounts there as well. Now they're fined $25 million because they have allowed tens of millions of dollars in cash to be withdrawn from accounts related to the Saudi Arabian embassy. A ver interesting story there that we'll probably be hearing more about over the next couple of days.

Meanwhile, somewhere in New Jersey...

HEMMER: It's happy hour.

SERWER: ... it's happy hour. This has been a recurring theme today, has it not, Bill? I think someone's got...

O'BRIEN: You know what? Absolutely. It's 9:47.

SERWER: Well, for Bill Hemmer, it's happy hour, I guess.

Richland, New Jersey, has been renamed Mohito (ph), New Jersey, for two weeks. Bacardi, the rum company, has paid them $5,000 to do this to promote their rum. Of course, a lot of mint is grown in Richland, New Jersey, which is an element of the Mohito (ph), along with rum and sugarcane, which brings to mind maybe some other towns that could get renamed.

HEMMER: Such as?

SERWER: Well, what about Screwdriver, New Jersey, or Bloody Mary, Montana? And how about Cosmopolitan, Wisconsin?

O'BRIEN: Not bad. I like that one.

SERWER: We'll go to Cosmopolitan, Wisconsin.

O'BRIEN: I vote for that one.

HEMMER: How about just Manhattan, New York?

SERWER: Manhattan -- Manhattan, very good.

O'BRIEN: That was a good one.

HEMMER: Thanks, Andy.

SERWER: All right. You're welcome. Have a good one.

O'BRIEN: Thank you. Likewise.

Still to come this morning, help for mothers-to-be while the fathers are serving in Iraq. That story is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Each Friday, in our series, "Extra Effort," we pay tribute to those who are going the extra mile to help others. This morning, we take a look at a unique program providing free services to pregnant women whose husbands are serving in Iraq. It's called Operation Doula Care. And in North Carolina, one expected mother is getting to know the woman who will be by her side on delivery day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): When Maria Donaldson was born three years ago, her father was there. But three months ago, Troy Donaldson left his family in Ft. Brag and went to Iraq with the Army Special Forces Command. He won't be there when his wife, Debbie, gives birth to their second daughter in July.

But Christine Ahrens will. Christine is a Doula, a Greek word meaning a mother's mother. Today, that translates into women trained to provide emotional and physical support to moms during childbirth. So Christine will be there throughout Debbie's delivery to shower here with the comfort and encouragement her husband would give her if he could.

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O'BRIEN: Joining us this morning from Raleigh, North Carolina, is Christine Ahrens, the volunteer doula, and also Debbie Donaldson, who, as we mentioned, is expecting her second child come July. Nice to see both of you. Thanks for being with us. Debbie, let's start with you. I know that you're in the middle of a high-risk pregnancy. You had an automobile accident, and I know you're recovering pretty well. And also, I know you had a tough time getting pregnant the second time around. So how is it going so far?

DEBBIE DONALDSON, PREGNANT WIFE TO SOLDIER IN IRAQ: Better than the first time actually. I have to admit.

O'BRIEN: That's just because you're busier. You don't realize it. Tell me a little bit about your decision-making process with your husband, Troy, because you could of said --with a high-risk pregnancy, you could have said, Troy, don't go, and they would of let him stay home. Why not do that?

DONALDSON: Because I'm not that kind of wife. I'm not the kind of person to say, oh, yes, don't go do your job so that you can stay here and pamper me. No. I told him to go. It's what he wanted to do.

O'BRIEN: Do you think Christine is going to be a good replacement or a decent replacement for Troy, who can't be with you?

DONALDSON: Oh, yes. Troy really didn't know what he was doing the first time, but either did I.

O'BRIEN: You know what? And as you have more kids, they don't get any better. I'll just give you that kind of advice. Tell me a little bit, Christine, about what kinds of things you're going to be doing in the delivery room? What exactly does a doula do?

CHRISTINE AHRENS, AIDE TO DONALDSON: Well, before the delivery room, I will be educating Debbie on her choices for setting up what she wants for her birth, what her most perfect birth that she could picture being, that's what I do beforehand. During the birth, I'm going to do as most as I possibly can to help her achieve those goals, help her breathing, help her -- massage therapy, just keeping her very relaxed, a very positive experience during her birth.

O'BRIEN: So you work in concert with the doctors then in the delivery room?

AHRENS: Oh, yes, yes. We never get in the way. We work side by side with them. We try to do what is best health wise, of course, but we are there for the mother to give her emotional support.

O'BRIEN: Well, good for you. Christine Ahrens, the doula, and also, Debbie Donaldson, congratulations. I'm a month behind you, so let me know how it goes. Best wishes to you. Take care.

DONALDSON: Thank you.

AHRENS: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Bill?

HEMMER: Great story. Coming up next hour here on CNN, the latest on what's happening in the prisoner abuse scandal. There are new allegations out today in print. We'll get you live to the Pentagon for more on that. Allegations from soldier against soldier. Betty Nguyen has that next hour on "CNN LIVE TODAY."

We're back in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING right after this.

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HEMMER: Listen, have a great weekend. We'll see you again here on Monday morning here on AMERICAN MORNING.

To Betty Nguyen at the CNN Center now working for Daryn Kagan in Atlanta.

Good morning to you. Happy Friday.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good morning. Jack is just such a happy-go-lucky guy, isn't he?

O'BRIEN: Betty, are you talking to us? Because we cannot hear you at all.

NGUYEN: Oh, I said Jack is such a happy-go-lucky guy.

O'BRIEN: Who, Jack?

NGUYEN: Full of fun.

HEMMER: Oh, yes.

NGUYEN: All right. Good morning to you both.

From the CNN headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Betty Nguyen, in for Daryn Kagan.

U.S. forces make their biggest push into the holy city of Najaf, attacking positioned held by Muqtada al-Sadr's militia. Much of the fighting is going on less than a mile from the holiest Shiite shrines. U.S. military officials say a number of militiamen have been captured.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair is staying in step with President Bush on Iraq. Speaking about the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal with a British newspaper, Mr. Blair said, "The most important thing is that we work with our coalition partners to sort it out."