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Sivits' Court Martial Begins Wednesday; John Paul II Names Six New Saints

Aired May 16, 2004 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. This is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm Sophia Choi.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. Great to have you with us today. I'm Thomas Roberts. Want to give you an update on what's coming your way over the next hour.

Charge and defense: the court-martial of Specialist Jeremy Sivits begins on Wednesday. We're going to take a look at the legalities of the case.

And within these walls, a new chapter of the civil rights movement was written. On the eve of the 50th anniversary of Brown v. the Board of Education, we're going to take you inside the school, now a museum, that started it all.

And tired of the rat race, are you? We're going to show you how some Americans are hitting the road in search of the American dream. But first, a check of the headlines.

CHOI: Secretary of State Colin Powell says he was shocked by the U.S. abuse of Iraqi prisoners. Powell spoke at the World Economic Forum in Jordan. He said the Bush administration is not hiding from what happened in Iraq and, as he put it, "We will deal with it."

Mortars, tanks and rocket-propelled grenades in the streets today in southern Iraq. Coalition troops are clashing with insurgents in Karbala and Nasariyah. And supporters of radical cleric Muqtada al- Sadr are burying their dead in Najaf. Twenty-two militiamen killed Friday by British troops.

Israel is acting tough and talking tough in Gaza. Three air strikes overnight target offices of Hamas and Yasser Arafat's Fatah faction, wounding four Palestinians. And the Israeli army threatens to escalate, saying it will "create a new reality along Gaza's border with Egypt."

At the Vatican, the pope named six new saints today, including a woman who became a symbol for abortion opponents. Thousands of pilgrims attended a ceremony in St. Peter's Square. John Paul II has now elevated 480 people to sainthood since his 25-year papacy.

ROBERTS: Courts-martial begin this week in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. And now The New Yorker Magazine is reporting another layer to the controversy. CNN's Kathleen Koch joins us now live at the Pentagon with more.

And it seems as if journalist Seymour Hersh is bringing more details to light.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Quite so. And these details, these charges in this article are very explosive, Thomas, and are being vehemently denied by the Pentagon. Hersh alleges that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld expanded a clandestine operation that was used in Afghanistan against al Qaeda to Iraq in order to gain more intelligence on the growing insurgency there.

He writes, "Rumsfeld authorized the establishment of a highly secret program that was given blanket advance approval to kill or capture and, if possible, interrogate high-value targets." The article claims that the program encouraged physical coercion, sexual humiliation, and that those involved went to great lengths to keep it secret.

He goes on, "Fewer than 200 operatives and officials, including Rumsfeld and General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 'were completely read into the program,' the former intelligence officer said." "'The goal was to keep the operation protected. We're not going to read more people than necessary into our heart of darkness, he said. The rules are grab whom you must, do what you want.'"

The Pentagon is saying in the most forceful terms that these charges are completely false. Spokesman Larry Darita (ph) reached CNN yesterday and gave us a statement. "Assertions apparently being made in the latest New Yorker article on Abu Ghraib and the abuse of Iraqi detainees are outlandish, conspiratorial and filled with error and anonymous conjecture. No responsible official of the Department of Defense approved any program that could conceivably have been intended to result in such abuses as witnessed in the recent photos and videos."

The sources quoted in this article include not only current and former intelligence officials, but also Pentagon consultants. There's no reaction, though, yet from the CIA on this article. Obviously, the implication in the article that this program that was transferred from Afghanistan to Iraq then ultimately led to the abuses that have occurred in Abu Ghraib prison.

True or not, this article certainly also raises a lot of questions at a time when the Pentagon is already under fire and the defense secretary, himself, Thomas, facing numerous calls for his resignation.

ROBERTS: Kathleen Koch, live for us at the Pentagon this morning. Kathleen, thanks very much.

Well, Private First Class Lynndie England has become one of the most familiar faces in the Iraqi prison abuse scandal. The New York Times reports on the details of England's sworn statement to investigators, saying she told investigators she thought the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners was fairly routine and often amusing. But rarely every, quote, "extreme."

At times, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) explaining why naked detainees were photographed, saying, "We thought it looked funny. So pictures were taken." Investigators asked her, "Was there anything done to these detainees that you felt that was going too far?" She replied, "No."

The Times reports that England said repeatedly throughout her statement that she and other soldiers were ordered to do the things that they did. CNN has attempted to reach England's attorneys for comment, but so far they've been unavailable.

Well, Wolf Blitzer will continue this discussion of Iraqi prisoner abuse with New Yorker reporter Seymour Hersh. Now, you definitely don't want to miss this conversation. That's on "LATE EDITION," coming your way at noon Eastern today.

CHOI: President Bush is facing renewed criticism of his handling of Iraq. Both sides on the presidential campaign now accuse the other of playing politics with issues. White House correspondent Dana Bash joins us now live with more.

Good morning, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Sophia.

And, you know, for a while, as things got worse in Iraq, the president's approval ratings did not actually seem to reflect how bad things seemed to be getting in Iraq. In fact, there was a question for some time about how the president's poll numbers stayed so strong, especially in April, when the U.S. saw more casualties than any other time in Iraq, even during major combat.

Well, now, five and a half months before the election, the prisoner abuse scandal, the violence in Iraq seems to be taking a toll on the president's standing. A number of polls out this week, including a couple of CNN polls, saw the president's job approval rating to the lowest in his presidency. There's a new one out this weekend that shows similar numbers.

Let's take a look at the latest Newsweek poll. The president's approval rating is at 42 percent. Fifty-two percent of Americans disapprove of how Mr. Bush is doing his job. So when you talk to the president's complain aides, they have said throughout the past couple of months that the 50 percent mark is really the barrier. That's something they don't want to go below, the danger zone, one of the president's political aides like to call it.

So there certainly is some frustration at the Bush campaign, particularly because the economy is finally looking up. That's the issue that the president's team had been focused on. The job numbers over the past couple of months have gotten much better. But simply, they say the bad news out of Iraq is putting Americans in a funk.

So they understand that that is a big problem for them. They will continue, however, to go after Senator John Kerry as somebody who is not an appropriate alternative to the president in dealing with Iraq -- Sophia.

CHOI: Dana Bash at the White House for us this morning. Thank you.

BASH: Thank you.

CHOI: Well, the first court-martial begins this week in Baghdad. What exactly is Specialist Sivits about to face? We'll ask a military lawyer ahead.

THOMAS: Plus, Brown v. the Board of Education 50 years later. How far have we come?

CHOI: But first, here's your assignment this morning. Try your hand in caption writing. This ostrich in Taiwan escaped from a petting zoo and the police are literally trying to pull it over. Send us your caption ideas at wam@cnn.com.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHOI: The court-martial for Specialist Charles Graner will begin in Baghdad on Thursday. Among other things, Graner is accused of cruelty and assault on Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib. But long before the current scandal, others alleged abuse at Graner's hands. CNN's Alina Cho explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Charles Graner already had his share of legal problems. He was involved in a bitter divorce, and his ex-wife has accused him of violent abuse. In an incident in 2001, Graner's ex-wife said, "He grabbed me by the hair, pushed me down, dragged me, and started banging the left side my head against the floor."

In all, there were three complaints. Each time, a judge issued a restraining order against Graner, who is barred from going anywhere near his ex-wife.

In the Pittsburgh suburb Graner calls home, a flag hangs in the window. A bible verse painted on stone is just outside. He worked as a prison guard in a nearby maximum security lock-up. It is here that Graner allegedly abused inmates.

According to court records, in June 1998, one inmate accused Graner and another guard of putting a raiser blade in his food. Later, the inmate said, without warning or provocation, Graner began beating his arm with a baton. The allegations against Graner were never substantiated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Specialist Graner was not involved in any way in that incident.

CHO: A judge later dismissed the suit after, the inmate failed to pursue the case and other prison officials dismissed the allegation as nonsense. Long-time friends call Graner a good father and a hard worker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good luck. Hang in there. Keep things together.

CHO (on camera): Graner will be arraigned in Baghdad next week. He is facing several charges of abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: Another soldier involved in the scandal will also be tried this week. The court-martial of Specialist Jeremy Sivits will begin in Baghdad on Wednesday. He's been charged with maltreatment of prisoners, conspiracy to maltreat prisoners, and dereliction of duty.

Now, Sivits has reportedly been cooperating fully with military investigators. So how might this help his case? We're going to put that question to military law attorney David Sheldon. He joins us now live from Washington, D.C. with more on this.

David, good morning.

DAVID SHELDON, MILITARY LAW ATTORNEY: Good morning.

ROBERTS: So David, The New York Times reporting today that most likely Sivits is going to plead guilty for leniency. Do you think that is why his case is speeding through the process so quickly?

SHELDON: Absolutely. It has no doubt about it in terms of assuring his cooperation. The government it looks like entered into a pretrial agreement. That pretrial agreement may cap the sentence at the jurisdictional limit of one-year confinement, or it may cap it at something less than that, six months confinement, or nine months confinement. And it's important that the military judge, which this likely will be tried in front of, alone, could assess a punishment even less than that.

ROBERTS: Let's go ahead and -- David, excuse me. Let's go ahead and put up a statement that was made by Sivits himself, saying, "Our command would have slammed us. They believe in doing the right thing. And if they saw what was going on there would be hell to pay."

This is a statement that he made in regards to the prison abuse scandal about the fact that he wasn't really acting under orders. He was doing it on his own. What does this say to you, this statement?

SHELDON: Well, it says -- it suggests to me that Specialist Sivits obviously is speaking on his own behalf. And others have contradicted him. I think down the line, when you see challenge cases, contested cases, other testimony is going to come out.

Today, The Washington Post is reporting that Colonel Pappas, General Sanchez, and even Undersecretary Cambone authorized the use of military intelligence to coop military police in interrogations. And if that's true, and if that testimony comes out in this contested case, it may well be that these soldiers have a defense or as following orders or not.

ROBERTS: Are we going to be seeing Sivits turn up in the our courts-martial, testifying against those people he served with?

SHELDON: Very likely. I would think that that's entirely possible, especially when one considers the foundational requirements for getting these pictures into evidence.

Sivits reportedly took the pictures. He can lay the foundation for those pictures to come into evidence. And more importantly, he can put a face or a story as to what was happening with those pictures.

ROBERTS: What's to him if he does go through the process, does plead guilty? What's the punishment?

SHELDON: It could be anything up to a year in jail at a military confinement facility, a bad conduct discharge, reduction to E-1 and loss of all pay and allowances. A bad conduct discharge is stigmatizing and it will follow him for the rest of his life.

ROBERTS: David, as we mentioned before, this is all going to take place in Baghdad. Why is it so important for the U.S. to try this in Iraq?

SHELDON: Clearly, this is a political move in terms of addressing with the Iraqi people that American serves members when they do wrong are held responsible for their actions.

ROBERTS: For the other reservists that are going to be facing courts-martial, is this pretty much a career ender even if they are found innocent?

SHELDON: Absolutely. Even for those implicated further up the chain of command. Their careers, for all intent and purpose, are probably over.

ROBERTS: And again, back to that statement that Sivits made, saying that they believed they were doing the right thing, if they saw what was going on there would be hell to pay. So this statement pretty much admission of guilt. But doesn't that also say that there was no supervision?

SHELDON: Well, it certainly suggests that. And the -- it's clear that there was a break down on the chain of command. But what is startling and what is reported today in The Washington Post is that apparently there was -- and, of course, there's the Seymour Hersh article in the May 24th New Yorker that you already reported on -- but there was a purposeful action on behalf of this administration at the very highest levels.

Undersecretary Cambone is a very, very good, close, confidant of Secretary Rumsfeld. That he was involved in the authorization of military intelligence coopting military police within these illegal interrogations. And if that's true, if that's true, and the defense can put on that, what it appears is that there's not only smoke in the argument that these service members were following orders, there's fire as well. And that's going to be powerful testimony if it can come out.

ROBERTS: Well the ball starts rolling on Wednesday. That is when the court-martial of Specialist Jeremy Sivits will begin. David Sheldon, military law attorney, joining us from Washington this morning. David, thanks again.

SHELDON: Thank you.

CHOI: Tired of the rat race? Want to just leave it all behind? Well, ahead, we will introduce you to a familiar that has done just that. Meet this family when CNN SUNDAY MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

ROBERTS: We're going to move on this morning, check the headlines for you.

Secretary of State Colin Powell today apologized for the humiliation and abuse of Iraqi prisoners at the hands of American soldiers. He made that apology in Jordan while attending the World Economic Forum.

More explosions to talk about in Gaza. Israeli forces fired several missiles at targets in Gaza City overnight. Two of the missiles targeted an office used by Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement. Israel also struck a building used by Hamas.

CHOI: And now we want to take you to the captioned contest. We asked you to try your hand at writing a caption for this usual picture of an ostrich, which escaped from a petting zoo in Taiwan. Police are literally trying to pull it over. And here's a sampling of what you said.

ROBERTS: Thomas writes in this morning: "The ostrich lane is over there."

CHOI: And we've got one from Chris. He says, "Bail revoked: flight risk."

ROBERTS: Well, these guys did do their best.

CHOI: Very witty. Very witty.

ROBERTS: Three motor cops right there trying to track down this quick ostrich. What's the facts? Do you know? They run about...

CHOI: They run about 40 miles an hour.

ROBERTS: Forty miles an hour? CHOI: Forty plus, so...

ROBERTS: They're quick.

CHOI: Very fast.

Well, it's been 50 years since the historic Brown v. the Board of Education decision. But has it really changed American schools? We'll get a tour of the Brown Museum.

ROBERTS: Plus, an unconventional way of playing the game. How Billy Beane and the Oakland A's play ball ahead on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Good morning again, everybody. And welcome back to CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm Thomas Roberts.

CHOI: And I'm Sophia Choi. Let's get you caught up on the morning's top stories.

ROBERTS: More fighting has flared up between coalition forces and the Iraqi militia loyal to the cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Coalition soldiers were attacked by mortars in Karbala. There were no injuries. Now, in Najaf, six militia members were killed in a firefight with coalition forces.

One American soldier was killed in an attack on a coalition patrol in southern Afghanistan. Two other soldiers suffered minor injuries in the attack by suspected insurgents. One person was detained after that attack.

And three people are dead following the collapse of an overpass near Denver. An investigation into the cause of the collapse is under way. The 40-ton support girder sank down in front of traffic, crushing the victim's car. No other motorists were injured.

Same-sex couples in Massachusetts are getting closer to being able to lawfully wed. Some areas are planning to begin processing marriage licenses at midnight this evening. San Francisco allowed the marriages just for a short time earlier this year, but Massachusetts is the only state that's sanctioning the unions.

CHOI: Israel on the attack today in Gaza City, sparking panic in the streets. Apache helicopters fired four missiles, wounding four Palestinians, three children and an adult. Two of the missiles hit an office of Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement. The other two hit a building housing a newspaper run by Hamas called The Message.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 16, 2004 - 09:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. This is CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm Sophia Choi.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. Great to have you with us today. I'm Thomas Roberts. Want to give you an update on what's coming your way over the next hour.

Charge and defense: the court-martial of Specialist Jeremy Sivits begins on Wednesday. We're going to take a look at the legalities of the case.

And within these walls, a new chapter of the civil rights movement was written. On the eve of the 50th anniversary of Brown v. the Board of Education, we're going to take you inside the school, now a museum, that started it all.

And tired of the rat race, are you? We're going to show you how some Americans are hitting the road in search of the American dream. But first, a check of the headlines.

CHOI: Secretary of State Colin Powell says he was shocked by the U.S. abuse of Iraqi prisoners. Powell spoke at the World Economic Forum in Jordan. He said the Bush administration is not hiding from what happened in Iraq and, as he put it, "We will deal with it."

Mortars, tanks and rocket-propelled grenades in the streets today in southern Iraq. Coalition troops are clashing with insurgents in Karbala and Nasariyah. And supporters of radical cleric Muqtada al- Sadr are burying their dead in Najaf. Twenty-two militiamen killed Friday by British troops.

Israel is acting tough and talking tough in Gaza. Three air strikes overnight target offices of Hamas and Yasser Arafat's Fatah faction, wounding four Palestinians. And the Israeli army threatens to escalate, saying it will "create a new reality along Gaza's border with Egypt."

At the Vatican, the pope named six new saints today, including a woman who became a symbol for abortion opponents. Thousands of pilgrims attended a ceremony in St. Peter's Square. John Paul II has now elevated 480 people to sainthood since his 25-year papacy.

ROBERTS: Courts-martial begin this week in the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. And now The New Yorker Magazine is reporting another layer to the controversy. CNN's Kathleen Koch joins us now live at the Pentagon with more.

And it seems as if journalist Seymour Hersh is bringing more details to light.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Quite so. And these details, these charges in this article are very explosive, Thomas, and are being vehemently denied by the Pentagon. Hersh alleges that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld expanded a clandestine operation that was used in Afghanistan against al Qaeda to Iraq in order to gain more intelligence on the growing insurgency there.

He writes, "Rumsfeld authorized the establishment of a highly secret program that was given blanket advance approval to kill or capture and, if possible, interrogate high-value targets." The article claims that the program encouraged physical coercion, sexual humiliation, and that those involved went to great lengths to keep it secret.

He goes on, "Fewer than 200 operatives and officials, including Rumsfeld and General Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, 'were completely read into the program,' the former intelligence officer said." "'The goal was to keep the operation protected. We're not going to read more people than necessary into our heart of darkness, he said. The rules are grab whom you must, do what you want.'"

The Pentagon is saying in the most forceful terms that these charges are completely false. Spokesman Larry Darita (ph) reached CNN yesterday and gave us a statement. "Assertions apparently being made in the latest New Yorker article on Abu Ghraib and the abuse of Iraqi detainees are outlandish, conspiratorial and filled with error and anonymous conjecture. No responsible official of the Department of Defense approved any program that could conceivably have been intended to result in such abuses as witnessed in the recent photos and videos."

The sources quoted in this article include not only current and former intelligence officials, but also Pentagon consultants. There's no reaction, though, yet from the CIA on this article. Obviously, the implication in the article that this program that was transferred from Afghanistan to Iraq then ultimately led to the abuses that have occurred in Abu Ghraib prison.

True or not, this article certainly also raises a lot of questions at a time when the Pentagon is already under fire and the defense secretary, himself, Thomas, facing numerous calls for his resignation.

ROBERTS: Kathleen Koch, live for us at the Pentagon this morning. Kathleen, thanks very much.

Well, Private First Class Lynndie England has become one of the most familiar faces in the Iraqi prison abuse scandal. The New York Times reports on the details of England's sworn statement to investigators, saying she told investigators she thought the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners was fairly routine and often amusing. But rarely every, quote, "extreme."

At times, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) explaining why naked detainees were photographed, saying, "We thought it looked funny. So pictures were taken." Investigators asked her, "Was there anything done to these detainees that you felt that was going too far?" She replied, "No."

The Times reports that England said repeatedly throughout her statement that she and other soldiers were ordered to do the things that they did. CNN has attempted to reach England's attorneys for comment, but so far they've been unavailable.

Well, Wolf Blitzer will continue this discussion of Iraqi prisoner abuse with New Yorker reporter Seymour Hersh. Now, you definitely don't want to miss this conversation. That's on "LATE EDITION," coming your way at noon Eastern today.

CHOI: President Bush is facing renewed criticism of his handling of Iraq. Both sides on the presidential campaign now accuse the other of playing politics with issues. White House correspondent Dana Bash joins us now live with more.

Good morning, Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Sophia.

And, you know, for a while, as things got worse in Iraq, the president's approval ratings did not actually seem to reflect how bad things seemed to be getting in Iraq. In fact, there was a question for some time about how the president's poll numbers stayed so strong, especially in April, when the U.S. saw more casualties than any other time in Iraq, even during major combat.

Well, now, five and a half months before the election, the prisoner abuse scandal, the violence in Iraq seems to be taking a toll on the president's standing. A number of polls out this week, including a couple of CNN polls, saw the president's job approval rating to the lowest in his presidency. There's a new one out this weekend that shows similar numbers.

Let's take a look at the latest Newsweek poll. The president's approval rating is at 42 percent. Fifty-two percent of Americans disapprove of how Mr. Bush is doing his job. So when you talk to the president's complain aides, they have said throughout the past couple of months that the 50 percent mark is really the barrier. That's something they don't want to go below, the danger zone, one of the president's political aides like to call it.

So there certainly is some frustration at the Bush campaign, particularly because the economy is finally looking up. That's the issue that the president's team had been focused on. The job numbers over the past couple of months have gotten much better. But simply, they say the bad news out of Iraq is putting Americans in a funk.

So they understand that that is a big problem for them. They will continue, however, to go after Senator John Kerry as somebody who is not an appropriate alternative to the president in dealing with Iraq -- Sophia.

CHOI: Dana Bash at the White House for us this morning. Thank you.

BASH: Thank you.

CHOI: Well, the first court-martial begins this week in Baghdad. What exactly is Specialist Sivits about to face? We'll ask a military lawyer ahead.

THOMAS: Plus, Brown v. the Board of Education 50 years later. How far have we come?

CHOI: But first, here's your assignment this morning. Try your hand in caption writing. This ostrich in Taiwan escaped from a petting zoo and the police are literally trying to pull it over. Send us your caption ideas at wam@cnn.com.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHOI: The court-martial for Specialist Charles Graner will begin in Baghdad on Thursday. Among other things, Graner is accused of cruelty and assault on Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib. But long before the current scandal, others alleged abuse at Graner's hands. CNN's Alina Cho explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Charles Graner already had his share of legal problems. He was involved in a bitter divorce, and his ex-wife has accused him of violent abuse. In an incident in 2001, Graner's ex-wife said, "He grabbed me by the hair, pushed me down, dragged me, and started banging the left side my head against the floor."

In all, there were three complaints. Each time, a judge issued a restraining order against Graner, who is barred from going anywhere near his ex-wife.

In the Pittsburgh suburb Graner calls home, a flag hangs in the window. A bible verse painted on stone is just outside. He worked as a prison guard in a nearby maximum security lock-up. It is here that Graner allegedly abused inmates.

According to court records, in June 1998, one inmate accused Graner and another guard of putting a raiser blade in his food. Later, the inmate said, without warning or provocation, Graner began beating his arm with a baton. The allegations against Graner were never substantiated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Specialist Graner was not involved in any way in that incident.

CHO: A judge later dismissed the suit after, the inmate failed to pursue the case and other prison officials dismissed the allegation as nonsense. Long-time friends call Graner a good father and a hard worker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good luck. Hang in there. Keep things together.

CHO (on camera): Graner will be arraigned in Baghdad next week. He is facing several charges of abusing prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTS: Another soldier involved in the scandal will also be tried this week. The court-martial of Specialist Jeremy Sivits will begin in Baghdad on Wednesday. He's been charged with maltreatment of prisoners, conspiracy to maltreat prisoners, and dereliction of duty.

Now, Sivits has reportedly been cooperating fully with military investigators. So how might this help his case? We're going to put that question to military law attorney David Sheldon. He joins us now live from Washington, D.C. with more on this.

David, good morning.

DAVID SHELDON, MILITARY LAW ATTORNEY: Good morning.

ROBERTS: So David, The New York Times reporting today that most likely Sivits is going to plead guilty for leniency. Do you think that is why his case is speeding through the process so quickly?

SHELDON: Absolutely. It has no doubt about it in terms of assuring his cooperation. The government it looks like entered into a pretrial agreement. That pretrial agreement may cap the sentence at the jurisdictional limit of one-year confinement, or it may cap it at something less than that, six months confinement, or nine months confinement. And it's important that the military judge, which this likely will be tried in front of, alone, could assess a punishment even less than that.

ROBERTS: Let's go ahead and -- David, excuse me. Let's go ahead and put up a statement that was made by Sivits himself, saying, "Our command would have slammed us. They believe in doing the right thing. And if they saw what was going on there would be hell to pay."

This is a statement that he made in regards to the prison abuse scandal about the fact that he wasn't really acting under orders. He was doing it on his own. What does this say to you, this statement?

SHELDON: Well, it says -- it suggests to me that Specialist Sivits obviously is speaking on his own behalf. And others have contradicted him. I think down the line, when you see challenge cases, contested cases, other testimony is going to come out.

Today, The Washington Post is reporting that Colonel Pappas, General Sanchez, and even Undersecretary Cambone authorized the use of military intelligence to coop military police in interrogations. And if that's true, and if that testimony comes out in this contested case, it may well be that these soldiers have a defense or as following orders or not.

ROBERTS: Are we going to be seeing Sivits turn up in the our courts-martial, testifying against those people he served with?

SHELDON: Very likely. I would think that that's entirely possible, especially when one considers the foundational requirements for getting these pictures into evidence.

Sivits reportedly took the pictures. He can lay the foundation for those pictures to come into evidence. And more importantly, he can put a face or a story as to what was happening with those pictures.

ROBERTS: What's to him if he does go through the process, does plead guilty? What's the punishment?

SHELDON: It could be anything up to a year in jail at a military confinement facility, a bad conduct discharge, reduction to E-1 and loss of all pay and allowances. A bad conduct discharge is stigmatizing and it will follow him for the rest of his life.

ROBERTS: David, as we mentioned before, this is all going to take place in Baghdad. Why is it so important for the U.S. to try this in Iraq?

SHELDON: Clearly, this is a political move in terms of addressing with the Iraqi people that American serves members when they do wrong are held responsible for their actions.

ROBERTS: For the other reservists that are going to be facing courts-martial, is this pretty much a career ender even if they are found innocent?

SHELDON: Absolutely. Even for those implicated further up the chain of command. Their careers, for all intent and purpose, are probably over.

ROBERTS: And again, back to that statement that Sivits made, saying that they believed they were doing the right thing, if they saw what was going on there would be hell to pay. So this statement pretty much admission of guilt. But doesn't that also say that there was no supervision?

SHELDON: Well, it certainly suggests that. And the -- it's clear that there was a break down on the chain of command. But what is startling and what is reported today in The Washington Post is that apparently there was -- and, of course, there's the Seymour Hersh article in the May 24th New Yorker that you already reported on -- but there was a purposeful action on behalf of this administration at the very highest levels.

Undersecretary Cambone is a very, very good, close, confidant of Secretary Rumsfeld. That he was involved in the authorization of military intelligence coopting military police within these illegal interrogations. And if that's true, if that's true, and the defense can put on that, what it appears is that there's not only smoke in the argument that these service members were following orders, there's fire as well. And that's going to be powerful testimony if it can come out.

ROBERTS: Well the ball starts rolling on Wednesday. That is when the court-martial of Specialist Jeremy Sivits will begin. David Sheldon, military law attorney, joining us from Washington this morning. David, thanks again.

SHELDON: Thank you.

CHOI: Tired of the rat race? Want to just leave it all behind? Well, ahead, we will introduce you to a familiar that has done just that. Meet this family when CNN SUNDAY MORNING continues.

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ROBERTS: We're going to move on this morning, check the headlines for you.

Secretary of State Colin Powell today apologized for the humiliation and abuse of Iraqi prisoners at the hands of American soldiers. He made that apology in Jordan while attending the World Economic Forum.

More explosions to talk about in Gaza. Israeli forces fired several missiles at targets in Gaza City overnight. Two of the missiles targeted an office used by Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement. Israel also struck a building used by Hamas.

CHOI: And now we want to take you to the captioned contest. We asked you to try your hand at writing a caption for this usual picture of an ostrich, which escaped from a petting zoo in Taiwan. Police are literally trying to pull it over. And here's a sampling of what you said.

ROBERTS: Thomas writes in this morning: "The ostrich lane is over there."

CHOI: And we've got one from Chris. He says, "Bail revoked: flight risk."

ROBERTS: Well, these guys did do their best.

CHOI: Very witty. Very witty.

ROBERTS: Three motor cops right there trying to track down this quick ostrich. What's the facts? Do you know? They run about...

CHOI: They run about 40 miles an hour.

ROBERTS: Forty miles an hour? CHOI: Forty plus, so...

ROBERTS: They're quick.

CHOI: Very fast.

Well, it's been 50 years since the historic Brown v. the Board of Education decision. But has it really changed American schools? We'll get a tour of the Brown Museum.

ROBERTS: Plus, an unconventional way of playing the game. How Billy Beane and the Oakland A's play ball ahead on CNN SUNDAY MORNING.

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ROBERTS: Good morning again, everybody. And welcome back to CNN SUNDAY MORNING. I'm Thomas Roberts.

CHOI: And I'm Sophia Choi. Let's get you caught up on the morning's top stories.

ROBERTS: More fighting has flared up between coalition forces and the Iraqi militia loyal to the cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Coalition soldiers were attacked by mortars in Karbala. There were no injuries. Now, in Najaf, six militia members were killed in a firefight with coalition forces.

One American soldier was killed in an attack on a coalition patrol in southern Afghanistan. Two other soldiers suffered minor injuries in the attack by suspected insurgents. One person was detained after that attack.

And three people are dead following the collapse of an overpass near Denver. An investigation into the cause of the collapse is under way. The 40-ton support girder sank down in front of traffic, crushing the victim's car. No other motorists were injured.

Same-sex couples in Massachusetts are getting closer to being able to lawfully wed. Some areas are planning to begin processing marriage licenses at midnight this evening. San Francisco allowed the marriages just for a short time earlier this year, but Massachusetts is the only state that's sanctioning the unions.

CHOI: Israel on the attack today in Gaza City, sparking panic in the streets. Apache helicopters fired four missiles, wounding four Palestinians, three children and an adult. Two of the missiles hit an office of Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement. The other two hit a building housing a newspaper run by Hamas called The Message.

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