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American Morning
New Information About Who Ordered Prisoners Stripped, Put in Chains; Could Insurgents in Iraq be Planning Deadly Attacks With Nerve Gas?
Aired May 18, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: On the eve of the first court martial in Iraq, new information about who ordered prisoners to be stripped and put in chains.
Could insurgents in Iraq be planning deadly attacks with nerve gas? The military now focusing on an apparent sarin gas discovery.
And the tragic end to a daring rescue mission in the state of Washington on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome everybody.
Other stories that we're following this morning: former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani will testify before the 9/11 Commission today.
The Commission in New York looking at the emergency response. We're going to talk this morning to the chairman and the vice-chairman of that Commission about today's focus in just a few minutes.
HEMMER: It's going to be very emotional, too, here in the city of New York.
Also this morning, researchers say they're discovering some problems with low carb diets, at least over the long haul. In a few minutes we'll look at why the diets can fail and how to keep them on track.
O'BRIEN: Well, they're high calorie.
HEMMER: I say bunk anyway, do the low carb, you feel better.
O'BRIEN: No, all that low carb stuff has a lot of calories in it.
HEMMER: It's OK as long as you get your fruits and vegetables along the way you'll be OK.
O'BRIEN: OK, Dr. Hemmer, thanks.
Jack, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I think I wandered into the wrong program here.
(LAUGHTER)
Is this the health panel?
State of Massachusetts causing untoward problems. They started performing these marriages yesterday among same sex couples, and the list of questions that that presents to the rest of the country reaches from here to next week. We'll take a look at it in a few minutes.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's get right to our top stories, though, first this morning.
U.S. officials conducting more tests on an artillery believed to have been loaded with the nerve agent sarin. Preliminary tests show that the shell, which was discovered on Saturday, contains the deadly nerve agent.
The shell had been converted to a roadside bomb but only partially exploded yesterday before it was disarmed.
The U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq says the transfer of power to Iraqis must go ahead as planned despite terrorist efforts to stop it.
Paul Bremer making his remarks at a memorial service for Izzedine Salim, the head of the Iraqi Governing Council, who was killed in a car bombing yesterday.
Bremer said the political process toward an interim government in Iraq and elections must continue.
About 100 Israeli tanks and bulldozers rolled into a Palestinian refugee camp near the Gaza-Egypt border following Israeli helicopter strikes. At least 13 Palestinians were killed in those missile strikes.
Israel says it fired missiles at armed militants, but residents inside the refugee camp say innocent civilians were killed.
There appears to be no let up in sight for motorists dealing with rising gasoline prices. The Energy Department now says the national average retail price of gasoline has topped $2 per gallon for the first time ever.
There is a call from some Democratic lawmakers to open up the nation's reserves. Andy Serwer is going to join us in just a little bit to have a lot more on this story this morning.
HEMMER: And we're going to be talking about that for a long time.
O'BRIEN: Each and every day.
HEMMER: June, possibly in July as well. (WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: First, the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. New information about the U.S. operation at the prison west of Baghdad.
According to "The New York Times," the top U.S. interrogation officer has told Army investigators that Intell officers sometimes instructed military police to force Iraqis to strip naked and be shackled before the questioning.
The officer was also quoted in a classified report saying there was no formal system to monitor instructions that Intell officers had given to the MPs. This reporting comes the day before the first court marital in the scandal.
To Baghdad straight away and Harris Whitbeck today. Harris, good afternoon there.
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN: Hello, Bill.
A lot of preparation is underway for the court proceedings that will start tomorrow. A lot of interest in those proceedings, especially after the outrage that was sparked when the story of the prison abuse first broke.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK: A makeshift courtroom at the Baghdad Convention Center ready for the first of several military courts martial in the Abu Ghraib abuse cases.
There will be lots of room for the press and live simultaneous translation into Arabic.
Coalition authorities realize they have to convince public opinion, particularly in Iraq, they are serious about bringing prison abusers to justice.
But a day before the special court marital of Spc. Jeremy Sivits and the arraignment of three others, few in Baghdad seem ready to believe justice will be served.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): While the Americans knew about the torture of the Iraqi detainees before this date, it is a game to help Bush win the elections.
WHITBECK: This shopkeeper says the court martial will be just a show, and that those who ordered the abuse are the ones who should be put on trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It should be an Iraqi court, not an American, to try the officers in charge, not the soldiers who executed the orders.
WHITBECK: Sivits is expected to plead guilty to charges of mistreatment of prisoners and dereliction of duty while he was a prison guard at Abu Ghraib.
In a pre-trial hearing, known as an Article 32 in military justice terms, he stated abuse took place.
Describing, for example, an incident in which a prison guard would strike a detainee with a baseball swing and hit the wounds of detainees.
For military court officers, the challenge is in conducting the proceedings under intense scrutiny.
CAPT. ROSE BLEAM, MILITARY JUSTICE OFFICER: We're not looking at the most expeditious manner of conducting these court martials; the challenge for all parties involved is to make sure that these court martials are conducted as if there is no media attention, as if no one else is looking and scrutinizing what we're doing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK: But the bigger challenge will be in convincing Iraqi public opinion that the American military court system will result in justice, not an easy task in a country where confidence in the U.S. is not really high -- Bill.
HEMMER: Harris Whitbeck in Baghdad. Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The Bush administration says the June 30 transfer of power in Iraq will take place as scheduled despite the killing of the head of Iraq's governing council.
Today two senior administration officials will testify at senate hearings on the transition to Iraqi sovereignty.
New Jersey Democrat Jon Corzine is a member of the Foreign Relations Committee -- he joins us from Washington.
Nice to see you, Senator. Sorry, I'm stumbling a little bit.
Good morning to you. Thanks for joining us.
Iraqi leader Ahmed Chalabi, a strong Bush supporter, said that the U.S. security plan has failed. Doesn't he have a point?
That essentially the coalition has shown that it cannot protect Iraqis as a whole and certainly not high-ranking Iraqis?
SEN. JON CORZINE (D) FOREIGN RELATIONS CMTE.: That may be the only thing I have ever agreed with Chalabi about -- the fact is is that security conditions on the ground are deteriorating -- there are reports in "The Washington Post" this morning that outline a sense of failure growing both among people in the coalition and certainly Iraqis on the ground, and I think make very troubling the question of whether in 44 days we're prepared to turn over sovereignty to unknown elements and that's certainly going to be one of the thrusts of today's hearing with the two deputy secretaries. O'BRIEN: He wants full control of security by Iraqis when the handover takes place. That's not obviously the case as it's scheduled right now. Do you think Iraqis should get that?
CORZINE: Well, I think that sounds like the Fallujah situation that we have today. I don't know how you can presume that you're going to turn it over to Iraqis when we haven't trained up either security personnel, civil personnel, or reconstituted a military.
The fact is that we didn't have plans in place to prepare for this turnover on June 30 and I think it's a questionable procedure.
Sure, we'd like to -- to get a situation where the Iraqi people would take control of their destiny but I'm not sure that the conditions on the ground or the preparation on political transfer are in place.
O'BRIEN: Can I interrupt you there? For a second -- because you say it's a questionable procedure. Are you talking about that date for the handover as a whole?
CORZINE: My view is that we have no sense of security. That June 30 is a date that makes any sense with regard to what kind of political institution will be taking on this sovereignty, what the command and control of our own military let alone the civilian and military developments in Iraq themselves.
So I think we are creating or potentially going to create a vacuum post-June 30 that could be very dangerous both for the Iraqi people and for the long run stability of the region.
O'BRIEN: There are many people who say if you miss that deadline, you've created a whole other problem, a huge essentially psychological problem within that country. You disagree with that?
CORZINE: Well, I think there's a psychological problem, but there's going to be a real problem if you have virtual chaos because the sovereignty doesn't come with any ability to bring stability on the ground and if you have a false sovereignty because you turn it over to a caretaker that's basically a puppet the Iraqi people are going to say the United States has mislead us again.
O'BRIEN: Senator Jon Corzine is going to be a the Foreign Relations Committee hearing from Richard Armitage and also Paul Wolfowitz this morning.
Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for joining us.
CORZINE: Good to be here.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: About 10 minutes past the hour. Some sad news today about a climber who was stranded on Washington's Mt. Ranier since Saturday. Peter Cooley, seen here on the right, had been rescued by helicopter late last night from steep terrain right around 12,000 feet along with his climbing partner Scott Richards.
Authorities say after being rescued, Cooley died before arriving at an Army medical center near Tacoma.
The pair had been able to contact rescuers by cell phone, but dangerous conditions on the mountain did not allow rescue attempt until yesterday. Scott Richards is expected to be brought off the mountain today.
O'BRIEN: Tragic -- it's really sad.
Still to come this morning; the 9/11 Commission comes to New York City. The Commission chairmen are going to join us next to tell us what they hope to learn this morning.
HEMMER: Also in health news today do those low carb diets really work -- a look at two new studies just out. Have a look at that in a moment.
O'BRIEN: And, a dramatic rescue off of Florida after three children are swept away by a powerful rip current.
We're going to hear from some of them this morning and their rescuers as well just ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: This morning, in fact in a few hours from now, the 9/11 Commission convenes two days of public hearings here in New York City not far from Ground Zero. In fact, about a mile and a half away.
Former mayor Rudy Giuliani among those testifying and a bit earlier today I talked with the Commission chairman Tom Kean and the vice-chairman Lee Hamilton starting with Governor Kean and what he hopes to learn from today's two day session.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THOMAS KEAN, CHAIRMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: We really want to learn two things. One is what happened, the real details of the whole day of 9/11.
What happened when the planes hit the towers and what was the response afterwards and emergency personnel and the second thing is we want to learn from that -- we want to learn some lessons not only for New York City but for -- to apply to cities in other parts of the United States.
HEMMER: Chairman Hamilton in the Metro Section of "The New York Times" today, the headline says "Why Wasn't The City Prepared?" The key question from the 9/11 panel.
Is that the key question for you? LEE HAMILTON, VICE-CHAIRMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: Well, it's an important one. The Commission I think approaches this mornings hearings with great sensitivity.
We think this is going be a very emotional day; we're not sitting in judgment here. We're just trying to learn what happened and why it happened, what the decision making process was for the firemen and the policemen and the other leaders on the scene.
We want to know what's been fixed. A lot of things have happened since 9/11 and then of course we want to know what remains to be fixed.
HEMMER: You mentioned the word an emotional day, that phrase. Governor Kean does it have more emotion, more intimacy, more resonance, because you are in Manhattan today with these hearings?
KEAN: There's no question about it. This is the greatest city in the world; it suffered the greatest tragedy in this nation's history.
The shock is still there, so many people, myself included in this area, who lost a good many friends, and that gives it a poignancy, an emotion, that just doesn't -- just wouldn't exist anywhere else. And we're still trying to get over it in New York City.
HEMMER: Chairman Hamilton, there seems to be this contradiction as to what was said over the PA announcement on that day 9/11 2001 at least one of the towers as to whether or not maybe 100s of others could have gotten out of the towers.
What have you learned about that, about that statement that may have been a contradiction that could have saved lives?
HAMILTON: Look, there was a great deal of confusion on that day and we're going to try to sort out that confusion, at least the best we can.
I must say that confusion is perfectly understandable. The people who were making decisions here were doing it under conditions of extraordinary stress beyond almost anything anyone has imagined before.
We don't want to try to be too judgmental about that -- we want to try to put our -- put ourselves into their place and understand exactly what happened.
I don't want to make any kind of judgment at this point with regard to fault here. Everybody was doing the very best they could under the circumstances with the equipment and with the facilities that they had.
HEMMER: Governor Kean, earlier in the week you gave an interview saying that you believe that an al Qaeda attack in this country was imminent. Can you perhaps give us a better indication as to what you meant by that? KEAN: What I meant was every single expert that we've talked to on the Commission says that sometime someplace whether it's next month, next year, whenever, that there probably will be another attack, that we can stop 29 attacks but the 30th might get through no matter how well prepared we are and we've just got to make sure that we are prepared to the best of our ability.
One to prevent the attack if possible and if God forbid another attack of some kind occurs to have everybody in place to save as many lives as possible.
HEMMER: Do you say that from your own judgment or do you say that based on information that you are privy to?
KEAN: I say that based on -- I don't know if there are any experts in this area but people from the FBI, the CIA, whoever you talk to who studies this field including a number of authors have said that sooner or later they believe that some other attack will get through and I've based it on that assumption and on their statements, not just on my own judgment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Governor Thomas Kean, Lee Hamilton, earlier today with us. Today's public hearing the 11th for the Commission, is scheduled to begin this morning at 8:45 a.m. Eastern time, about an hour and 30 minutes from now.
O'BRIEN: A routine Indiana Air National Guard training mission ended in tragedy when two F16 fighter jets collided near the Indiana- Illinois border. The jets collided yesterday afternoon, killing one pilot, injuring the other.
One of the planes went down in the town of Oaktown, Indiana -- the other some 17 miles away in Lawrenceville, Illinois.
Still to come this morning are insurgents using a deadly nerve gas in Iraq? The latest from the Pentagon is just ahead.
And gas prices zoom past a milestone. Should Congress step in? A look at that ahead as well on AMERICAN MORNING right after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Gas prices barrel over a new barrier. Will the pain at the pump have a ripple effect?
With that and a look at the market as well Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business" this morning. Hello.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Hello. Good morning.
And ignominious milestone reached yesterday, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: You love those big words, don't you? SERWER: Yes, well, you've got to use them out sometime here. Gas prices crossing the $2 threshold nationwide for the first time ever yesterday.
$2.01, that's up seven cents from the previous week. Fifty cents from a year ago.
Some say the worst is over, but those are the same people that have been saying it for weeks now. So I wouldn't take that much stock in them.
Also in other oil and gas news, yesterday Treasury Secretary John Snow saying the administration will not release oil from the strategic petroleum reserve saying its only to be used in genuine emergencies.
We talked yesterday, Soledad, about how high gas prices effecting sales of Hummers -- apparently also effecting sales of other large SUVs. Let's check this out -- some of the other big ones -- sales are slipping in April.
The Ford Expedition/Bronco down 33 percent. The Chevy Suburban and so on and so on. So you can see here that finally gas prices may be impacting the sales of those vehicles as well.
And let's talk about the markets because not a very good day at all yesterday and that was to be expected given what was going on across the world and with oil prices.
You can see we had a triple digit loss for the Dow. Down about one percent. Nasdaq down a point and a half percent.
Year to date, we are way down. You can see here, and -- but -- maybe some good news this morning, Jack, because the Indian market rallied.
It's back. And futures this morning are looking good too. So, anyway, but -- you know what happens is you get two steps down and one step up in this kind of situation.
CAFFERTY: So the investments being held by all those people that are doing jobs for American corporations are actually increasing in value this morning.
SERWER: Yes, the outsourcers are all happier this morning, yes. Right.
CAFFERTY: Happy for them.
SERWER: Indeed.
HEMMER: What up? Ignominious.
CAFFERTY: That's why he's the business guy.
Massachusetts tore the lid off a very large can of worms yesterday as it became the first state to legally perform same sex marriages and these marriages have left more questions unanswered than they've answered.
For example: if gay couples marry in Massachusetts should they be recognized as married in other states. And, should same sex couples in other states be able to go to Massachusetts and get married there.
And is it up to the legislatures or the courts to decide what's legal and what's not and should the whole thing be put to a vote?
The latest CNN/TIME poll shows Americans are opposed to gay marriage by nearly a two to one ratio and President Bush issued a statement yesterday that the need for a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage was, quote, urgent.
So the question is this -- you figure this stuff out -- who should decide the future of same-sex marriage? E-mail us at am@cnn.com.
HEMMER: Well, you've go The Netherlands, you've got Belgium, Canada and now Massachusetts.
SERWER: Well can you have local constituencies decide this? I mean, that's the big question. Can a city decide, can a state decide? How would that work?
O'BRIEN: I mean interracial marriages back in 1958 and beyond that there were certainly a handful of states like -- that did not allow people to -- interracial couples to get married so people would leave that state and go get married.
CAFFERTY: But now there are 49 states that don't consider these legal. There's only one that does.
O'BRIEN: Yes, but some would argue the same thing applies. I'm not a lawyer. But I'm just saying, you know.
CAFFERTY: Soledad's answer.
HEMMER: But a good business question, too.
O'BRIEN: It's not my answer; it's just a question -- that's my question.
HEMMER: If you get married in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts you want to -- and everyone has said they do it to make sure that they can take their savings and pass it on to their partner and their children if they adopt them, what happens if you move?
SERWER: Right, right. Big questions.
O'BRIEN: And hard questions.
CAFFERTY: I have no answers, I just ask the questions.
O'BRIEN: We hear you. Good questions. Still to come this morning, more good questions and hard questions about the 9/11 attacks in New York City. Investigators are looking at how rescuers could have done a better job on that fateful day. That's ahead. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Almost 7:30 here in New York. Good morning everyone, nice to have you here with us on this Tuesday morning.
Discovery of a possible sarin nerve agent in a roadside bomb in Iraq opening up a lot of questions today.
Is it evidence of WMD, do insurgents have more, what was the strategy if it was intentional? Questions remain today. Barbara Starr has some answers in a few moments live from the Pentagon.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, there's so many people cutting carbs right now, researchers are starting to get a better sense of how diets like the Atkins Diet and the South Beach Diet work over the long term.
In just a few minutes we're going to take a look at where the main problems lie and what dieters can do to overcome those.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 18, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: On the eve of the first court martial in Iraq, new information about who ordered prisoners to be stripped and put in chains.
Could insurgents in Iraq be planning deadly attacks with nerve gas? The military now focusing on an apparent sarin gas discovery.
And the tragic end to a daring rescue mission in the state of Washington on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome everybody.
Other stories that we're following this morning: former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani will testify before the 9/11 Commission today.
The Commission in New York looking at the emergency response. We're going to talk this morning to the chairman and the vice-chairman of that Commission about today's focus in just a few minutes.
HEMMER: It's going to be very emotional, too, here in the city of New York.
Also this morning, researchers say they're discovering some problems with low carb diets, at least over the long haul. In a few minutes we'll look at why the diets can fail and how to keep them on track.
O'BRIEN: Well, they're high calorie.
HEMMER: I say bunk anyway, do the low carb, you feel better.
O'BRIEN: No, all that low carb stuff has a lot of calories in it.
HEMMER: It's OK as long as you get your fruits and vegetables along the way you'll be OK.
O'BRIEN: OK, Dr. Hemmer, thanks.
Jack, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: I think I wandered into the wrong program here.
(LAUGHTER)
Is this the health panel?
State of Massachusetts causing untoward problems. They started performing these marriages yesterday among same sex couples, and the list of questions that that presents to the rest of the country reaches from here to next week. We'll take a look at it in a few minutes.
O'BRIEN: All right, let's get right to our top stories, though, first this morning.
U.S. officials conducting more tests on an artillery believed to have been loaded with the nerve agent sarin. Preliminary tests show that the shell, which was discovered on Saturday, contains the deadly nerve agent.
The shell had been converted to a roadside bomb but only partially exploded yesterday before it was disarmed.
The U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq says the transfer of power to Iraqis must go ahead as planned despite terrorist efforts to stop it.
Paul Bremer making his remarks at a memorial service for Izzedine Salim, the head of the Iraqi Governing Council, who was killed in a car bombing yesterday.
Bremer said the political process toward an interim government in Iraq and elections must continue.
About 100 Israeli tanks and bulldozers rolled into a Palestinian refugee camp near the Gaza-Egypt border following Israeli helicopter strikes. At least 13 Palestinians were killed in those missile strikes.
Israel says it fired missiles at armed militants, but residents inside the refugee camp say innocent civilians were killed.
There appears to be no let up in sight for motorists dealing with rising gasoline prices. The Energy Department now says the national average retail price of gasoline has topped $2 per gallon for the first time ever.
There is a call from some Democratic lawmakers to open up the nation's reserves. Andy Serwer is going to join us in just a little bit to have a lot more on this story this morning.
HEMMER: And we're going to be talking about that for a long time.
O'BRIEN: Each and every day.
HEMMER: June, possibly in July as well. (WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: First, the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal. New information about the U.S. operation at the prison west of Baghdad.
According to "The New York Times," the top U.S. interrogation officer has told Army investigators that Intell officers sometimes instructed military police to force Iraqis to strip naked and be shackled before the questioning.
The officer was also quoted in a classified report saying there was no formal system to monitor instructions that Intell officers had given to the MPs. This reporting comes the day before the first court marital in the scandal.
To Baghdad straight away and Harris Whitbeck today. Harris, good afternoon there.
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN: Hello, Bill.
A lot of preparation is underway for the court proceedings that will start tomorrow. A lot of interest in those proceedings, especially after the outrage that was sparked when the story of the prison abuse first broke.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK: A makeshift courtroom at the Baghdad Convention Center ready for the first of several military courts martial in the Abu Ghraib abuse cases.
There will be lots of room for the press and live simultaneous translation into Arabic.
Coalition authorities realize they have to convince public opinion, particularly in Iraq, they are serious about bringing prison abusers to justice.
But a day before the special court marital of Spc. Jeremy Sivits and the arraignment of three others, few in Baghdad seem ready to believe justice will be served.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): While the Americans knew about the torture of the Iraqi detainees before this date, it is a game to help Bush win the elections.
WHITBECK: This shopkeeper says the court martial will be just a show, and that those who ordered the abuse are the ones who should be put on trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It should be an Iraqi court, not an American, to try the officers in charge, not the soldiers who executed the orders.
WHITBECK: Sivits is expected to plead guilty to charges of mistreatment of prisoners and dereliction of duty while he was a prison guard at Abu Ghraib.
In a pre-trial hearing, known as an Article 32 in military justice terms, he stated abuse took place.
Describing, for example, an incident in which a prison guard would strike a detainee with a baseball swing and hit the wounds of detainees.
For military court officers, the challenge is in conducting the proceedings under intense scrutiny.
CAPT. ROSE BLEAM, MILITARY JUSTICE OFFICER: We're not looking at the most expeditious manner of conducting these court martials; the challenge for all parties involved is to make sure that these court martials are conducted as if there is no media attention, as if no one else is looking and scrutinizing what we're doing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK: But the bigger challenge will be in convincing Iraqi public opinion that the American military court system will result in justice, not an easy task in a country where confidence in the U.S. is not really high -- Bill.
HEMMER: Harris Whitbeck in Baghdad. Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The Bush administration says the June 30 transfer of power in Iraq will take place as scheduled despite the killing of the head of Iraq's governing council.
Today two senior administration officials will testify at senate hearings on the transition to Iraqi sovereignty.
New Jersey Democrat Jon Corzine is a member of the Foreign Relations Committee -- he joins us from Washington.
Nice to see you, Senator. Sorry, I'm stumbling a little bit.
Good morning to you. Thanks for joining us.
Iraqi leader Ahmed Chalabi, a strong Bush supporter, said that the U.S. security plan has failed. Doesn't he have a point?
That essentially the coalition has shown that it cannot protect Iraqis as a whole and certainly not high-ranking Iraqis?
SEN. JON CORZINE (D) FOREIGN RELATIONS CMTE.: That may be the only thing I have ever agreed with Chalabi about -- the fact is is that security conditions on the ground are deteriorating -- there are reports in "The Washington Post" this morning that outline a sense of failure growing both among people in the coalition and certainly Iraqis on the ground, and I think make very troubling the question of whether in 44 days we're prepared to turn over sovereignty to unknown elements and that's certainly going to be one of the thrusts of today's hearing with the two deputy secretaries. O'BRIEN: He wants full control of security by Iraqis when the handover takes place. That's not obviously the case as it's scheduled right now. Do you think Iraqis should get that?
CORZINE: Well, I think that sounds like the Fallujah situation that we have today. I don't know how you can presume that you're going to turn it over to Iraqis when we haven't trained up either security personnel, civil personnel, or reconstituted a military.
The fact is that we didn't have plans in place to prepare for this turnover on June 30 and I think it's a questionable procedure.
Sure, we'd like to -- to get a situation where the Iraqi people would take control of their destiny but I'm not sure that the conditions on the ground or the preparation on political transfer are in place.
O'BRIEN: Can I interrupt you there? For a second -- because you say it's a questionable procedure. Are you talking about that date for the handover as a whole?
CORZINE: My view is that we have no sense of security. That June 30 is a date that makes any sense with regard to what kind of political institution will be taking on this sovereignty, what the command and control of our own military let alone the civilian and military developments in Iraq themselves.
So I think we are creating or potentially going to create a vacuum post-June 30 that could be very dangerous both for the Iraqi people and for the long run stability of the region.
O'BRIEN: There are many people who say if you miss that deadline, you've created a whole other problem, a huge essentially psychological problem within that country. You disagree with that?
CORZINE: Well, I think there's a psychological problem, but there's going to be a real problem if you have virtual chaos because the sovereignty doesn't come with any ability to bring stability on the ground and if you have a false sovereignty because you turn it over to a caretaker that's basically a puppet the Iraqi people are going to say the United States has mislead us again.
O'BRIEN: Senator Jon Corzine is going to be a the Foreign Relations Committee hearing from Richard Armitage and also Paul Wolfowitz this morning.
Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for joining us.
CORZINE: Good to be here.
O'BRIEN: Bill.
HEMMER: About 10 minutes past the hour. Some sad news today about a climber who was stranded on Washington's Mt. Ranier since Saturday. Peter Cooley, seen here on the right, had been rescued by helicopter late last night from steep terrain right around 12,000 feet along with his climbing partner Scott Richards.
Authorities say after being rescued, Cooley died before arriving at an Army medical center near Tacoma.
The pair had been able to contact rescuers by cell phone, but dangerous conditions on the mountain did not allow rescue attempt until yesterday. Scott Richards is expected to be brought off the mountain today.
O'BRIEN: Tragic -- it's really sad.
Still to come this morning; the 9/11 Commission comes to New York City. The Commission chairmen are going to join us next to tell us what they hope to learn this morning.
HEMMER: Also in health news today do those low carb diets really work -- a look at two new studies just out. Have a look at that in a moment.
O'BRIEN: And, a dramatic rescue off of Florida after three children are swept away by a powerful rip current.
We're going to hear from some of them this morning and their rescuers as well just ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
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HEMMER: This morning, in fact in a few hours from now, the 9/11 Commission convenes two days of public hearings here in New York City not far from Ground Zero. In fact, about a mile and a half away.
Former mayor Rudy Giuliani among those testifying and a bit earlier today I talked with the Commission chairman Tom Kean and the vice-chairman Lee Hamilton starting with Governor Kean and what he hopes to learn from today's two day session.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THOMAS KEAN, CHAIRMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: We really want to learn two things. One is what happened, the real details of the whole day of 9/11.
What happened when the planes hit the towers and what was the response afterwards and emergency personnel and the second thing is we want to learn from that -- we want to learn some lessons not only for New York City but for -- to apply to cities in other parts of the United States.
HEMMER: Chairman Hamilton in the Metro Section of "The New York Times" today, the headline says "Why Wasn't The City Prepared?" The key question from the 9/11 panel.
Is that the key question for you? LEE HAMILTON, VICE-CHAIRMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION: Well, it's an important one. The Commission I think approaches this mornings hearings with great sensitivity.
We think this is going be a very emotional day; we're not sitting in judgment here. We're just trying to learn what happened and why it happened, what the decision making process was for the firemen and the policemen and the other leaders on the scene.
We want to know what's been fixed. A lot of things have happened since 9/11 and then of course we want to know what remains to be fixed.
HEMMER: You mentioned the word an emotional day, that phrase. Governor Kean does it have more emotion, more intimacy, more resonance, because you are in Manhattan today with these hearings?
KEAN: There's no question about it. This is the greatest city in the world; it suffered the greatest tragedy in this nation's history.
The shock is still there, so many people, myself included in this area, who lost a good many friends, and that gives it a poignancy, an emotion, that just doesn't -- just wouldn't exist anywhere else. And we're still trying to get over it in New York City.
HEMMER: Chairman Hamilton, there seems to be this contradiction as to what was said over the PA announcement on that day 9/11 2001 at least one of the towers as to whether or not maybe 100s of others could have gotten out of the towers.
What have you learned about that, about that statement that may have been a contradiction that could have saved lives?
HAMILTON: Look, there was a great deal of confusion on that day and we're going to try to sort out that confusion, at least the best we can.
I must say that confusion is perfectly understandable. The people who were making decisions here were doing it under conditions of extraordinary stress beyond almost anything anyone has imagined before.
We don't want to try to be too judgmental about that -- we want to try to put our -- put ourselves into their place and understand exactly what happened.
I don't want to make any kind of judgment at this point with regard to fault here. Everybody was doing the very best they could under the circumstances with the equipment and with the facilities that they had.
HEMMER: Governor Kean, earlier in the week you gave an interview saying that you believe that an al Qaeda attack in this country was imminent. Can you perhaps give us a better indication as to what you meant by that? KEAN: What I meant was every single expert that we've talked to on the Commission says that sometime someplace whether it's next month, next year, whenever, that there probably will be another attack, that we can stop 29 attacks but the 30th might get through no matter how well prepared we are and we've just got to make sure that we are prepared to the best of our ability.
One to prevent the attack if possible and if God forbid another attack of some kind occurs to have everybody in place to save as many lives as possible.
HEMMER: Do you say that from your own judgment or do you say that based on information that you are privy to?
KEAN: I say that based on -- I don't know if there are any experts in this area but people from the FBI, the CIA, whoever you talk to who studies this field including a number of authors have said that sooner or later they believe that some other attack will get through and I've based it on that assumption and on their statements, not just on my own judgment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Governor Thomas Kean, Lee Hamilton, earlier today with us. Today's public hearing the 11th for the Commission, is scheduled to begin this morning at 8:45 a.m. Eastern time, about an hour and 30 minutes from now.
O'BRIEN: A routine Indiana Air National Guard training mission ended in tragedy when two F16 fighter jets collided near the Indiana- Illinois border. The jets collided yesterday afternoon, killing one pilot, injuring the other.
One of the planes went down in the town of Oaktown, Indiana -- the other some 17 miles away in Lawrenceville, Illinois.
Still to come this morning are insurgents using a deadly nerve gas in Iraq? The latest from the Pentagon is just ahead.
And gas prices zoom past a milestone. Should Congress step in? A look at that ahead as well on AMERICAN MORNING right after this short break.
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O'BRIEN: Gas prices barrel over a new barrier. Will the pain at the pump have a ripple effect?
With that and a look at the market as well Andy Serwer "Minding Your Business" this morning. Hello.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Hello. Good morning.
And ignominious milestone reached yesterday, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: You love those big words, don't you? SERWER: Yes, well, you've got to use them out sometime here. Gas prices crossing the $2 threshold nationwide for the first time ever yesterday.
$2.01, that's up seven cents from the previous week. Fifty cents from a year ago.
Some say the worst is over, but those are the same people that have been saying it for weeks now. So I wouldn't take that much stock in them.
Also in other oil and gas news, yesterday Treasury Secretary John Snow saying the administration will not release oil from the strategic petroleum reserve saying its only to be used in genuine emergencies.
We talked yesterday, Soledad, about how high gas prices effecting sales of Hummers -- apparently also effecting sales of other large SUVs. Let's check this out -- some of the other big ones -- sales are slipping in April.
The Ford Expedition/Bronco down 33 percent. The Chevy Suburban and so on and so on. So you can see here that finally gas prices may be impacting the sales of those vehicles as well.
And let's talk about the markets because not a very good day at all yesterday and that was to be expected given what was going on across the world and with oil prices.
You can see we had a triple digit loss for the Dow. Down about one percent. Nasdaq down a point and a half percent.
Year to date, we are way down. You can see here, and -- but -- maybe some good news this morning, Jack, because the Indian market rallied.
It's back. And futures this morning are looking good too. So, anyway, but -- you know what happens is you get two steps down and one step up in this kind of situation.
CAFFERTY: So the investments being held by all those people that are doing jobs for American corporations are actually increasing in value this morning.
SERWER: Yes, the outsourcers are all happier this morning, yes. Right.
CAFFERTY: Happy for them.
SERWER: Indeed.
HEMMER: What up? Ignominious.
CAFFERTY: That's why he's the business guy.
Massachusetts tore the lid off a very large can of worms yesterday as it became the first state to legally perform same sex marriages and these marriages have left more questions unanswered than they've answered.
For example: if gay couples marry in Massachusetts should they be recognized as married in other states. And, should same sex couples in other states be able to go to Massachusetts and get married there.
And is it up to the legislatures or the courts to decide what's legal and what's not and should the whole thing be put to a vote?
The latest CNN/TIME poll shows Americans are opposed to gay marriage by nearly a two to one ratio and President Bush issued a statement yesterday that the need for a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage was, quote, urgent.
So the question is this -- you figure this stuff out -- who should decide the future of same-sex marriage? E-mail us at am@cnn.com.
HEMMER: Well, you've go The Netherlands, you've got Belgium, Canada and now Massachusetts.
SERWER: Well can you have local constituencies decide this? I mean, that's the big question. Can a city decide, can a state decide? How would that work?
O'BRIEN: I mean interracial marriages back in 1958 and beyond that there were certainly a handful of states like -- that did not allow people to -- interracial couples to get married so people would leave that state and go get married.
CAFFERTY: But now there are 49 states that don't consider these legal. There's only one that does.
O'BRIEN: Yes, but some would argue the same thing applies. I'm not a lawyer. But I'm just saying, you know.
CAFFERTY: Soledad's answer.
HEMMER: But a good business question, too.
O'BRIEN: It's not my answer; it's just a question -- that's my question.
HEMMER: If you get married in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts you want to -- and everyone has said they do it to make sure that they can take their savings and pass it on to their partner and their children if they adopt them, what happens if you move?
SERWER: Right, right. Big questions.
O'BRIEN: And hard questions.
CAFFERTY: I have no answers, I just ask the questions.
O'BRIEN: We hear you. Good questions. Still to come this morning, more good questions and hard questions about the 9/11 attacks in New York City. Investigators are looking at how rescuers could have done a better job on that fateful day. That's ahead. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.
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HEMMER: Almost 7:30 here in New York. Good morning everyone, nice to have you here with us on this Tuesday morning.
Discovery of a possible sarin nerve agent in a roadside bomb in Iraq opening up a lot of questions today.
Is it evidence of WMD, do insurgents have more, what was the strategy if it was intentional? Questions remain today. Barbara Starr has some answers in a few moments live from the Pentagon.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, there's so many people cutting carbs right now, researchers are starting to get a better sense of how diets like the Atkins Diet and the South Beach Diet work over the long term.
In just a few minutes we're going to take a look at where the main problems lie and what dieters can do to overcome those.
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