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American Morning
Investigators Question Whether Shell Contained Sarin Gas; Experts Disagree on Feasibility of June 30 Handover; Low Carb Diet Means High Prices
Aired May 18, 2004 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CO-HOST: The former president of the Iraqi Governing Council eulogized today in Baghdad. Izzedine Salim was killed yesterday in a car bombing near coalition headquarters.
Top U.S. administrator Paul Bremer praising Salim and promising not to give up on the goal of a democratic Iraq.
Also, U.S. troops have reportedly killed nine militiamen doing -- during, rather, ongoing battles in Karbala. Explosions and heavy gunfire have also been heard in Najaf.
Meanwhile, U.S. investigators in Iraq testing a shell that has initially tested positive for a banned substance in Iraq. But again today, there are questions ultimately as to what it is.
And David Ensor, our national security correspondent, tracking this now from D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The suspect artillery shell was discovered Saturday near Baghdad Airport.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: It was a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time, and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED.
ENSOR: An IED, in improvised explosive device made from what insurgents may have thought was a conventional 155-millimeter artillery shell, like the many that are all over Iraq.
A few soldiers who helped transport the exploded shell got mild symptoms consistent with exposure to sarin gas. They got quick treatment. They were lucky.
JONATHAN TUCKER, CHEM-BIO WEAPONS EXPERT: At higher doses there would be muscle spasms followed by convulsions and finally death by respiratory paralysis.
ENSOR: The exploded shell is in the hands of the Iraq survey group, the team led by the CIA's Charles Dulfer (ph), searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Officials say additional tests must be done to make sure it really is sarin gas.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We have to be careful.
ENSOR: If it is sarin gas, it would follow the discovery of a mustard gas shell about 10 days ago. If there are many more of them out there, that could help the president deflect criticism over his argument that weapons of mass destruction in Iraq were reason enough to go to war.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be the first evidence in this conflict that the chemical weapons that Saddam Hussein once had and we had no evidence of destruction, might now be surfacing and might be used against our troops.
ENSOR (on camera): In 1990, Iraq admitted to the U.N. that it had built some sarin gas artillery shells, prototypes it insisted had all been destroyed during testing. It now appears that was not true.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: In the days and weeks after the Iraq war more than a year ago, a number of false leads were found. Field testing turned up positive initially, later then negative. Part of the reason why there is cause for pause on this today -- Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Lots to talk about, in fact, out of Iraq this morning, including that killing of the former Iraqi Governing Council president.
From Washington, we have Kamber and May. Democratic consultant Victor Kamber joins us, also. Good morning, Victor.
VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: And former RNC communications director Cliff May, who's now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
Good morning to both of you.
CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's get going. Let's start, in fact, with the killing of the president of the Iraqi Governing Council.
How do you think, Victor, that this tragedy should affect the handover? Do you think it should affect the handover at all, and how do you think it will affect the handover?
KAMBER: Well, I would hope it will not, but it most certainly will. It once again shows that I think the people of Iraq are not yet ready to take leadership in their own way, that there's no protection without us. There's no controls without us.
I mean, we are the police force, and as much as we'd like to, many of us, would like to pull out and get done and be over, we're going to be there for a long time.
The turnover on June 30 is nothing more than, frankly, a political smokescreen. I wish it would work, I would hope it would work, but the reality is, as we saw yesterday, there's no way to protect those leaders, those puppet leaders that are going to be put in office.
O'BRIEN: Some of those leaders would say, you know, if you guys are there already and you're not protecting us, so you should hand over power on the 30th and we'll see what happens from there.
Where do you weigh in on this, Cliff?
MAY: Well, what this shows is how dangerous it is to be an Iraqi who is for freedom, for democracy, willing to work with the Americans towards those goals, because there are terrorists all over that country, the same people who killed Nick Berg and sliced his head off. They also killed, now a Shia leader.
But that also sends this message. The Shia understand that if we leave them, abandon them to these terrorists, it's going to mean an incredible slaughter.
If the Shia are with us, and the Kurds have been with us for the very beginning, that's 80 percent of the Iraqi population that wants our continuing assistance until we get Iraq free, democratic, stable and secure.
KAMBER: I'm not sure, Soledad, that we disagree. That's the point. The difference is the length of time, who else should help in this process, and how real this turnover is on June 30?
O'BRIEN: Well, I was going to ask Cliff that. OK. Does that mean, Cliff, staying for the long haul? Does that mean more international troops and how many do you envision if the answer is yes?
MAY: We need to be there, and we welcome any international troops we can get. But keep in mind, it's not likely the French under any circumstances are going to send troops in to hunt down the terrorists. They're not doing it anywhere else in the world with us. They're not going to do it there.
We welcome other troops. But this is also not a job for peacekeepers. Peacekeepers by definition take over once there is peace. Only the U.S. has the ability, and we're only learning that ability, to fight these terrible terrorists and insurgents in Iraq, with the help from the British, with the help from the Italians, with the help from the Poles and any other help we can get, we'll take.
O'BRIEN: Senator Jon Corzine earlier this morning said he thinks -- essentially, I'm paraphrasing him, of course -- he think it's ridiculous. He says you're going to have bigger problems if you make this deadline than if you miss the deadline.
What do you think about that, Victor? KAMBER: I agree. The deadline is a self-imposed one that we put there, I think primarily for political reasons. George Bush read the polls, read that he had to take some action. So he set an arbitrary date of June 30.
The reality is, we are no more ready to turn over, they are no more ready to receive leadership in the true sense. If we're talking about a puppet government, yes, we can do that.
We can establish Mary Jones is now the head or Bill Jones is now the head of Iraq. And we're still going to have 135,000 troops and our generals claim we need another 50,000 there to store up that government. Excuse me.
But the fact is we're not turning over real control or leadership or anything else. It's no different than the District of Columbia, representation without votes.
MAY: Just the opposite.
O'BRIEN: Bill doesn't sound very Iraq.
But I've got to get another question in, because I want to ask about gas prices. President Bill Jones doesn't sound like an Iraqi to me, but you know, I guess you're just using an example there.
Cliff, let's talk about gas prices; $2 is the average for the first time now. Some Senate Democrats are apparently planning to call on the administration to release some of those millions of barrels of oil from the strategic petroleum reserves.
Why not?
MAY: Because the strategic petroleum reserves have a specific use. It's to tell the Saudis and others that we can -- we will not succumb to oil blackmail or oil used as a weapon.
There are other things we can do. First of all, let's everybody recognize, those who said that we were going into Iraq for the oil, ain't true. Obviously, it's not -- that's not the case.
Second, we can drill in the U.S. If not now, when should we drill up in ANWAR? We can protect the caribou out there while we get the oil out from under the ground.
Third, it's time to look seriously -- And neither Kerry nor Bush are doing this -- at nonpetroleum alternatives that you can use to fill your car. The technology is there. It just needs a boost.
Also, we can reduce taxes. And also, I know this is politically hard, but ethanol is part of the problem here. The farmers like it, but it increases the price of gas and probably refineries. If you don't build some more you can't get enough gas out for the summer brew that under law you have to have.
O'BRIEN: All right, Vic, you heard that long list of why we shouldn't do it. Again, Senate Democrats say they want to call for the president to release some of those strategic reserves. Do you think it's...
KAMMBER: There's only two -- There's only two things we can do in the short run.
Cliff's list will take years. I mean, to deal with ANWAR, to deal with any of the problems he said. It's not going to happen this summer.
One, we can release reserves immediately, which there's no question we should do. And, we should two turn to George Bush's good friends in Saudi Arabia, his good friends in some of those other Arab countries that he claims are his allies and pals and just demand at that table, sit down with those OPEC leaders, that he wants the price of those gasoline barrels down.
And he did say -- it wasn't some stranger said oil in Iraq. But George Bush that said we're going to use the oil in Iraq to pay for the war in Iraq. That hasn't happened. Another lie to the American public. We're paying for the oil in Iraq and the oil in the United States.
O'BRIEN: That's our final word this morning. Victor Kamber, Cliff May joining us. Nice to see you, as always. We'll check in with you next time -- Bill.
HEMMER: The Mars rover Opportunity has begun another job on the red planet. Opportunity now scanning the stadium size Endurance Crater, looking for clues to what Mars was like before volcanic eruptions covered its surface in lava.
Earlier, the rover found out that a salty sea once covered part of the surface on Mars. The work continues there.
O'BRIEN: Still to come on this AMERICAN MORNING: you may lose a lot of weight on a low-carb diet, but you might lose a lot of money, too. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to explain.
Also, a business note today. The latest Martha Stewart items for sale are not making a whole lot of money. Andy tells us why in a moment, when we continue right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: While new studies weigh the merits of a low-carb lifestyle, Dr. Sanjay Gupta today takes a closer look this week at America's latest diet craze. This morning he shows us how carb counters make a serious investment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's not cheap to be thin. Every pound of flesh you lose on a low carb diet also takes a chunk out of your pocketbook. And so for many it's not the discipline but rather the cost. MARION NESTLE, AUTHOR, "FOOD POLITICS": The least expensive sources of protein in the diet are grains, wheat, corn and rice. If you can't eat any of those, because they've got carbohydrates, you're going to be having to eat meat and dairy products and other kinds of foods that are much more expensive.
GUPTA: A recent survey by a leading expert on food prices placed the weekly cost of the Atkins diet at $100 per person.
For a couple just starting the diet, they are expected to spend over $10,000 a year on food alone.
If the seafood-rich South Beach is more your thing, 90 bucks a week is your price tag. Calculates out to $9,300 a year per couple. That's nearly a third of your average yearly after-tax income.
Of course, the cheapest diet of all may just be a well-balanced one.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: Here again to talk about money and carbs, Heidi Skolnick, a nutritionist for the New York Giants and the School of American Ballet; Amy O'Connor, deputy editor for "Prevention" magazine; and Wahida Karmally, director of nutrition at the Irving Center of Columbia University Medical Center.
Thanks for joining us.
These diets are expensive. Why are they so expensive?
HEIDI SKOLNIK, NUTRITIONIST, NEW YORK GIANTS: Well, the starches are just -- cost less money. And that is traditionally, when you're working it out, you needed all that fuel. It can fill up your diet. It's the filler.
GUPTA: And you say that cheapest is often the most unhealthy, as well. Is that true?
SKOLNIK: Well, it's just that the fruits and vegetables can cost more, especially in cities. And that products -- if you look at these products, what they've done is they've created products that, now that it's low carb and marketed that way, it can cost $2 more than the same product did when it was just labeled as a no sugar product.
GUPTA: Wahida, can you find cheap, healthy foods out there?
WAHIDA KARMALLY, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: We have actually done research on it and found that you can come up with a healthy product that's not as expensive and can be incorporated. Because that's where you get the bang for the buck.
GUPTA: Give me some examples.
KARMALLY: You can come up with a meal with lots of fruits and vegetables. You go and buy in farmer's markets. You go to big wholesalers.
GUPTA: That's what they've been telling us for a long time, eat your fruits and vegetables.
I'm going to put you on the spot for one second. Your favorite healthy and cheapest food.
SKOLNIK: Oh, my favorite healthiest and cheapest food. I'm going to say berries, berries, berries.
AMY O'CONNOR, DEPUTY EDITOR, "PREVENTION" MAGAZINE: Beans, they are very underrated and very healthy.
GUPTA: Beans are good, yes.
KARMALLY: I like a mixture. When I cook, I put vegetables.
GUPTA: You're cheating there. I said one food.
KARMALLY: Oh, one food? I would go for kiwis.
GUPTA: Kiwis?
KARMALLY: Yes.
GUPTA: Wow. We're going to have an interesting diet if we do all that. Interesting stuff. We're going to talk a lot more about carbs, as well. Thanks to all of you, again, for joining us.
Tomorrow we're going to talk about carbs and exercise. This is a really important topic. Marathoners load up on carbs before the big race. But can you really follow an exercise plan on a low-carb diet? Interesting stuff.
We're going to talk about exercise and more of your low-carb concerns during AMERICAN MORNING's weeklong low carb craze series.
Back to you, Bill.
HEMMER: Sanjay, thanks for that. See you again on Wednesday.
As hot as the low carb craze seems to be, the report today in the "Washington Post" says that sales of some low-carb products are falling off at independent and health food stores. Some experts predict low carbs will shift from a trend to a permanent place, a smaller niche in the industry -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: This morning the 9/11 commission hearings are now under way. Let's take a look at exactly what's happening there. You're looking, of course, at the chairman, Tom Kean, talking in opening remarks to this commission as they begin their hearings with both the past and current mayor of New York City and many others, as well.
Of course, they're looking into what went wrong on that day and pointing to problems, certainly, with communication between the fire departments and the police department as well. More on that story ahead.
Also this morning: Martha Stewart's childhood. It's now up for sale. Let's see how much money she's getting for that, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
JACK CAFFERTY, CO-HOST: Go-go days over, perhaps, for K-Mart executives. Plus, get ready to buy a piece of Martha Stewart.
With that and a market preview, Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."
Good morning.
ANDREW SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you.
Let's first talk about what happened yesterday. Kind of a grim day on Wall Street. Dow down triple digits. What with gas prices hitting a new record, turmoil in India, not a big surprise here. You can see we were down across the board.
Stocks at lows for the year now, Jack. We're down about two to six percent, depending on which index you choose. Futures up this morning, though. That's the good news.
Talk about K-Mart. That was one stock that bucked the trend big time yesterday. We talked about it getting some profits going finally. Also, another reason why the stock may be up, the Detroit papers reporting they sold their jets. Well, it's about time. Here's the stock.
CAFFERTY: How are they going to get around?
SERWER: I don't know. Maybe take a car or a bus, a Greyhound bus.
The stock has been doing very well since it came out of bankruptcy. They had six jets. They used to fly folks to Las Vegas for entertainment, I would suppose, costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars. And now you see that they don't have the planes and the stock is doing better. What a surprise.
Let's talk about Martha Stewart.
CAFFERTY: How's Martha's company doing without Martha? You know, she's going away soon.
SERWER: June 17 is the sentencing day, yes.
But in the meantime, her brother has been auctioning things off on eBay. You know, eBay is always amusing. You always see all kinds of stuff. This really almost takes the cake. Martha Stewart's brother, he's a guy named Frank Kostyra, 59 years old. He lives near Mobile, Alabama. That's Martha. That's her lawyer. That's not her brother.
This guy Frank lives down in Mobile, and he's been auctioning off Martha's childhood toys and such. Here are three amber colored marbles that he is selling on eBay.
CAFFERTY: That's where they went.
SERWER: Yes, she lost her marbles. Very good.
Here's what he rights about it on eBay: "When Dad brought these almost flawless amber shooters home, which he said were handmade, they became Martha's favorites for the game, and she guarded and protected them from our slingshots."
This guy is a little different, I think.
Martha, no word on whether or not she's, you know, accepted or thinks this is okay that he's selling this stuff. He got -- They cleaned out their mother's house and he carted all this stuff away in some cartons and took it to South Carolina and then moved to Alabama. And now he's selling it.
One other thing he's selling are some gnome houses where they kept, like, toy gnomes. There's the gnome house.
O'BRIEN: Oh, my goodness.
SERWER: Actually, this gnome house might have belonged to Martha's ex-husband. We're not even clear. There are no gnomes in the house. It's just a little -- Like I said, it's a little different.
CAFFERTY: He probably stayed in it on weekends.
SERWER: A little gnome house. You know what I mean?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Gnome house.
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
CAFFERTY: On to "The Cafferty File."
One of four Europeans falls asleep at work: either at their desk or during a meeting or on the toilet. The -- well, try to do a complete job on reporting these stories. The Irish are the most likely to sleep on the job. The Dutch are the least likely to do so. Survey said 24 percent of Europeans have slept while at work. Thirty-nine percent said they never have, although they did say they have to make an effort occasionally to stay awake.
California's first lady, Maria Shriver, oh, so busy. One of her latest projects is to develop a line of jewelry featuring the state's landmarks, including the Golden Gate Bridge, the Hollywood sign, Yosemite National Park and even a charm featuring the state's first couple. That would be Maria and the walking barbell. Got to have one of these.
Collection ranges in price from $18 to $170. A quarter of the proceeds go to the California state protocol fund. I have no idea what that is.
HEMMER: Protocol. How to say hello to the government.
CAFFERTY: Doctors -- Doctors and hospitals bid to pay pro sports teams up to $1.5 million to treat their players annually, according to a story in "The New York Times." The teams get the doctor's services either for free or at highly discounted rates.
The New York Mets, for example, are paid more than $1 million a year by the NYU Hospital for Joint Diseases. The hospital provides all its services to the team for free, and in return they get to advertise at Shea stadium; they get free tickets; and they get visits from the Mets players at the hospital events.
SERWER: Yes. "You see Mike Piazza's leg. I fixed that."
CAFFERTY: That's right.
SERWER: The doctor gets to go around and say things like that.
CAFFERTY: That's right. How would you like to go to the doctor and send him a bill for your time?
SERWER: That's so backwards and so nice.
O'BRIEN: Can AMERICAN MORNING strike that kind of deal?
SERWER: We have Sanjay.
O'BRIEN: And get players to come by and visit us.
SERWER: How do we do this with Sanjay?
CAFFERTY: Our medical care is provided by the guy who takes care of the printers in the basement. He'll take care of you, if you have a little injury.
O'BRIEN: Is he going to be delivering me?
HEMMER: We'll get a cart for you down there and you're all set. O'BRIEN: Do I get drugs?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
SERWER: I know a guy.
CAFFERTY: That takes some guts.
O'BRIEN: I'm done.
HEMMER: I like to hear it, actually.
O'BRIEN: No, no.
HEMMER: It's infectious.
Get a break here. In a moment, Vatican City, another birthday for Pope John Paul II. Details ahead. He is 84 today.
Back in a moment, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning: the legal fallout of the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal is set to begin tomorrow. A preview from Baghdad just ahead, here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: The 9/11 commission back at work at this hour. In fact, a live picture from here in New York City. Was the first response the right response?
Military trials about to begin for the accused in the prison abuse scandal, even as more accusations are revealed.
And the death toll mounting as Israel sends tanks rolling into Gaza, described as the largest offensive there in years.
All ahead this hour, here on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. Other stories that we're following this morning.
As vacationers return to the beaches, they're finding out that riptides are really bad in some spots this year. In just a few moments, we're going to talk to some children who almost drowned in Florida. We're going to tell you what it took to same them. It was quite a story.
HEMMER: Yes. That it is. You know, it's the time of year for that. Good warning to go out again today. Also, research is starting to get a clearer picture on diets like Atkins and South Beach. They're finding the low carb craze may be plagued by some of the same old problems we've seen in other diets in years past. A look at some of those problems in a moment here.
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Aired May 18, 2004 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CO-HOST: The former president of the Iraqi Governing Council eulogized today in Baghdad. Izzedine Salim was killed yesterday in a car bombing near coalition headquarters.
Top U.S. administrator Paul Bremer praising Salim and promising not to give up on the goal of a democratic Iraq.
Also, U.S. troops have reportedly killed nine militiamen doing -- during, rather, ongoing battles in Karbala. Explosions and heavy gunfire have also been heard in Najaf.
Meanwhile, U.S. investigators in Iraq testing a shell that has initially tested positive for a banned substance in Iraq. But again today, there are questions ultimately as to what it is.
And David Ensor, our national security correspondent, tracking this now from D.C.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The suspect artillery shell was discovered Saturday near Baghdad Airport.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY: It was a weapon that we believe was stocked from the ex-regime time, and it had been thought to be an ordinary artillery shell set up to explode like an ordinary IED.
ENSOR: An IED, in improvised explosive device made from what insurgents may have thought was a conventional 155-millimeter artillery shell, like the many that are all over Iraq.
A few soldiers who helped transport the exploded shell got mild symptoms consistent with exposure to sarin gas. They got quick treatment. They were lucky.
JONATHAN TUCKER, CHEM-BIO WEAPONS EXPERT: At higher doses there would be muscle spasms followed by convulsions and finally death by respiratory paralysis.
ENSOR: The exploded shell is in the hands of the Iraq survey group, the team led by the CIA's Charles Dulfer (ph), searching for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Officials say additional tests must be done to make sure it really is sarin gas.
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We have to be careful.
ENSOR: If it is sarin gas, it would follow the discovery of a mustard gas shell about 10 days ago. If there are many more of them out there, that could help the president deflect criticism over his argument that weapons of mass destruction in Iraq were reason enough to go to war.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be the first evidence in this conflict that the chemical weapons that Saddam Hussein once had and we had no evidence of destruction, might now be surfacing and might be used against our troops.
ENSOR (on camera): In 1990, Iraq admitted to the U.N. that it had built some sarin gas artillery shells, prototypes it insisted had all been destroyed during testing. It now appears that was not true.
David Ensor, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: In the days and weeks after the Iraq war more than a year ago, a number of false leads were found. Field testing turned up positive initially, later then negative. Part of the reason why there is cause for pause on this today -- Soledad.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: Lots to talk about, in fact, out of Iraq this morning, including that killing of the former Iraqi Governing Council president.
From Washington, we have Kamber and May. Democratic consultant Victor Kamber joins us, also. Good morning, Victor.
VICTOR KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: And former RNC communications director Cliff May, who's now with the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
Good morning to both of you.
CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Good morning, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: All right. Let's get going. Let's start, in fact, with the killing of the president of the Iraqi Governing Council.
How do you think, Victor, that this tragedy should affect the handover? Do you think it should affect the handover at all, and how do you think it will affect the handover?
KAMBER: Well, I would hope it will not, but it most certainly will. It once again shows that I think the people of Iraq are not yet ready to take leadership in their own way, that there's no protection without us. There's no controls without us.
I mean, we are the police force, and as much as we'd like to, many of us, would like to pull out and get done and be over, we're going to be there for a long time.
The turnover on June 30 is nothing more than, frankly, a political smokescreen. I wish it would work, I would hope it would work, but the reality is, as we saw yesterday, there's no way to protect those leaders, those puppet leaders that are going to be put in office.
O'BRIEN: Some of those leaders would say, you know, if you guys are there already and you're not protecting us, so you should hand over power on the 30th and we'll see what happens from there.
Where do you weigh in on this, Cliff?
MAY: Well, what this shows is how dangerous it is to be an Iraqi who is for freedom, for democracy, willing to work with the Americans towards those goals, because there are terrorists all over that country, the same people who killed Nick Berg and sliced his head off. They also killed, now a Shia leader.
But that also sends this message. The Shia understand that if we leave them, abandon them to these terrorists, it's going to mean an incredible slaughter.
If the Shia are with us, and the Kurds have been with us for the very beginning, that's 80 percent of the Iraqi population that wants our continuing assistance until we get Iraq free, democratic, stable and secure.
KAMBER: I'm not sure, Soledad, that we disagree. That's the point. The difference is the length of time, who else should help in this process, and how real this turnover is on June 30?
O'BRIEN: Well, I was going to ask Cliff that. OK. Does that mean, Cliff, staying for the long haul? Does that mean more international troops and how many do you envision if the answer is yes?
MAY: We need to be there, and we welcome any international troops we can get. But keep in mind, it's not likely the French under any circumstances are going to send troops in to hunt down the terrorists. They're not doing it anywhere else in the world with us. They're not going to do it there.
We welcome other troops. But this is also not a job for peacekeepers. Peacekeepers by definition take over once there is peace. Only the U.S. has the ability, and we're only learning that ability, to fight these terrible terrorists and insurgents in Iraq, with the help from the British, with the help from the Italians, with the help from the Poles and any other help we can get, we'll take.
O'BRIEN: Senator Jon Corzine earlier this morning said he thinks -- essentially, I'm paraphrasing him, of course -- he think it's ridiculous. He says you're going to have bigger problems if you make this deadline than if you miss the deadline.
What do you think about that, Victor? KAMBER: I agree. The deadline is a self-imposed one that we put there, I think primarily for political reasons. George Bush read the polls, read that he had to take some action. So he set an arbitrary date of June 30.
The reality is, we are no more ready to turn over, they are no more ready to receive leadership in the true sense. If we're talking about a puppet government, yes, we can do that.
We can establish Mary Jones is now the head or Bill Jones is now the head of Iraq. And we're still going to have 135,000 troops and our generals claim we need another 50,000 there to store up that government. Excuse me.
But the fact is we're not turning over real control or leadership or anything else. It's no different than the District of Columbia, representation without votes.
MAY: Just the opposite.
O'BRIEN: Bill doesn't sound very Iraq.
But I've got to get another question in, because I want to ask about gas prices. President Bill Jones doesn't sound like an Iraqi to me, but you know, I guess you're just using an example there.
Cliff, let's talk about gas prices; $2 is the average for the first time now. Some Senate Democrats are apparently planning to call on the administration to release some of those millions of barrels of oil from the strategic petroleum reserves.
Why not?
MAY: Because the strategic petroleum reserves have a specific use. It's to tell the Saudis and others that we can -- we will not succumb to oil blackmail or oil used as a weapon.
There are other things we can do. First of all, let's everybody recognize, those who said that we were going into Iraq for the oil, ain't true. Obviously, it's not -- that's not the case.
Second, we can drill in the U.S. If not now, when should we drill up in ANWAR? We can protect the caribou out there while we get the oil out from under the ground.
Third, it's time to look seriously -- And neither Kerry nor Bush are doing this -- at nonpetroleum alternatives that you can use to fill your car. The technology is there. It just needs a boost.
Also, we can reduce taxes. And also, I know this is politically hard, but ethanol is part of the problem here. The farmers like it, but it increases the price of gas and probably refineries. If you don't build some more you can't get enough gas out for the summer brew that under law you have to have.
O'BRIEN: All right, Vic, you heard that long list of why we shouldn't do it. Again, Senate Democrats say they want to call for the president to release some of those strategic reserves. Do you think it's...
KAMMBER: There's only two -- There's only two things we can do in the short run.
Cliff's list will take years. I mean, to deal with ANWAR, to deal with any of the problems he said. It's not going to happen this summer.
One, we can release reserves immediately, which there's no question we should do. And, we should two turn to George Bush's good friends in Saudi Arabia, his good friends in some of those other Arab countries that he claims are his allies and pals and just demand at that table, sit down with those OPEC leaders, that he wants the price of those gasoline barrels down.
And he did say -- it wasn't some stranger said oil in Iraq. But George Bush that said we're going to use the oil in Iraq to pay for the war in Iraq. That hasn't happened. Another lie to the American public. We're paying for the oil in Iraq and the oil in the United States.
O'BRIEN: That's our final word this morning. Victor Kamber, Cliff May joining us. Nice to see you, as always. We'll check in with you next time -- Bill.
HEMMER: The Mars rover Opportunity has begun another job on the red planet. Opportunity now scanning the stadium size Endurance Crater, looking for clues to what Mars was like before volcanic eruptions covered its surface in lava.
Earlier, the rover found out that a salty sea once covered part of the surface on Mars. The work continues there.
O'BRIEN: Still to come on this AMERICAN MORNING: you may lose a lot of weight on a low-carb diet, but you might lose a lot of money, too. Dr. Sanjay Gupta is going to explain.
Also, a business note today. The latest Martha Stewart items for sale are not making a whole lot of money. Andy tells us why in a moment, when we continue right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: While new studies weigh the merits of a low-carb lifestyle, Dr. Sanjay Gupta today takes a closer look this week at America's latest diet craze. This morning he shows us how carb counters make a serious investment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's not cheap to be thin. Every pound of flesh you lose on a low carb diet also takes a chunk out of your pocketbook. And so for many it's not the discipline but rather the cost. MARION NESTLE, AUTHOR, "FOOD POLITICS": The least expensive sources of protein in the diet are grains, wheat, corn and rice. If you can't eat any of those, because they've got carbohydrates, you're going to be having to eat meat and dairy products and other kinds of foods that are much more expensive.
GUPTA: A recent survey by a leading expert on food prices placed the weekly cost of the Atkins diet at $100 per person.
For a couple just starting the diet, they are expected to spend over $10,000 a year on food alone.
If the seafood-rich South Beach is more your thing, 90 bucks a week is your price tag. Calculates out to $9,300 a year per couple. That's nearly a third of your average yearly after-tax income.
Of course, the cheapest diet of all may just be a well-balanced one.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: Here again to talk about money and carbs, Heidi Skolnick, a nutritionist for the New York Giants and the School of American Ballet; Amy O'Connor, deputy editor for "Prevention" magazine; and Wahida Karmally, director of nutrition at the Irving Center of Columbia University Medical Center.
Thanks for joining us.
These diets are expensive. Why are they so expensive?
HEIDI SKOLNIK, NUTRITIONIST, NEW YORK GIANTS: Well, the starches are just -- cost less money. And that is traditionally, when you're working it out, you needed all that fuel. It can fill up your diet. It's the filler.
GUPTA: And you say that cheapest is often the most unhealthy, as well. Is that true?
SKOLNIK: Well, it's just that the fruits and vegetables can cost more, especially in cities. And that products -- if you look at these products, what they've done is they've created products that, now that it's low carb and marketed that way, it can cost $2 more than the same product did when it was just labeled as a no sugar product.
GUPTA: Wahida, can you find cheap, healthy foods out there?
WAHIDA KARMALLY, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: We have actually done research on it and found that you can come up with a healthy product that's not as expensive and can be incorporated. Because that's where you get the bang for the buck.
GUPTA: Give me some examples.
KARMALLY: You can come up with a meal with lots of fruits and vegetables. You go and buy in farmer's markets. You go to big wholesalers.
GUPTA: That's what they've been telling us for a long time, eat your fruits and vegetables.
I'm going to put you on the spot for one second. Your favorite healthy and cheapest food.
SKOLNIK: Oh, my favorite healthiest and cheapest food. I'm going to say berries, berries, berries.
AMY O'CONNOR, DEPUTY EDITOR, "PREVENTION" MAGAZINE: Beans, they are very underrated and very healthy.
GUPTA: Beans are good, yes.
KARMALLY: I like a mixture. When I cook, I put vegetables.
GUPTA: You're cheating there. I said one food.
KARMALLY: Oh, one food? I would go for kiwis.
GUPTA: Kiwis?
KARMALLY: Yes.
GUPTA: Wow. We're going to have an interesting diet if we do all that. Interesting stuff. We're going to talk a lot more about carbs, as well. Thanks to all of you, again, for joining us.
Tomorrow we're going to talk about carbs and exercise. This is a really important topic. Marathoners load up on carbs before the big race. But can you really follow an exercise plan on a low-carb diet? Interesting stuff.
We're going to talk about exercise and more of your low-carb concerns during AMERICAN MORNING's weeklong low carb craze series.
Back to you, Bill.
HEMMER: Sanjay, thanks for that. See you again on Wednesday.
As hot as the low carb craze seems to be, the report today in the "Washington Post" says that sales of some low-carb products are falling off at independent and health food stores. Some experts predict low carbs will shift from a trend to a permanent place, a smaller niche in the industry -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: This morning the 9/11 commission hearings are now under way. Let's take a look at exactly what's happening there. You're looking, of course, at the chairman, Tom Kean, talking in opening remarks to this commission as they begin their hearings with both the past and current mayor of New York City and many others, as well.
Of course, they're looking into what went wrong on that day and pointing to problems, certainly, with communication between the fire departments and the police department as well. More on that story ahead.
Also this morning: Martha Stewart's childhood. It's now up for sale. Let's see how much money she's getting for that, ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.
JACK CAFFERTY, CO-HOST: Go-go days over, perhaps, for K-Mart executives. Plus, get ready to buy a piece of Martha Stewart.
With that and a market preview, Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."
Good morning.
ANDREW SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you.
Let's first talk about what happened yesterday. Kind of a grim day on Wall Street. Dow down triple digits. What with gas prices hitting a new record, turmoil in India, not a big surprise here. You can see we were down across the board.
Stocks at lows for the year now, Jack. We're down about two to six percent, depending on which index you choose. Futures up this morning, though. That's the good news.
Talk about K-Mart. That was one stock that bucked the trend big time yesterday. We talked about it getting some profits going finally. Also, another reason why the stock may be up, the Detroit papers reporting they sold their jets. Well, it's about time. Here's the stock.
CAFFERTY: How are they going to get around?
SERWER: I don't know. Maybe take a car or a bus, a Greyhound bus.
The stock has been doing very well since it came out of bankruptcy. They had six jets. They used to fly folks to Las Vegas for entertainment, I would suppose, costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars. And now you see that they don't have the planes and the stock is doing better. What a surprise.
Let's talk about Martha Stewart.
CAFFERTY: How's Martha's company doing without Martha? You know, she's going away soon.
SERWER: June 17 is the sentencing day, yes.
But in the meantime, her brother has been auctioning things off on eBay. You know, eBay is always amusing. You always see all kinds of stuff. This really almost takes the cake. Martha Stewart's brother, he's a guy named Frank Kostyra, 59 years old. He lives near Mobile, Alabama. That's Martha. That's her lawyer. That's not her brother.
This guy Frank lives down in Mobile, and he's been auctioning off Martha's childhood toys and such. Here are three amber colored marbles that he is selling on eBay.
CAFFERTY: That's where they went.
SERWER: Yes, she lost her marbles. Very good.
Here's what he rights about it on eBay: "When Dad brought these almost flawless amber shooters home, which he said were handmade, they became Martha's favorites for the game, and she guarded and protected them from our slingshots."
This guy is a little different, I think.
Martha, no word on whether or not she's, you know, accepted or thinks this is okay that he's selling this stuff. He got -- They cleaned out their mother's house and he carted all this stuff away in some cartons and took it to South Carolina and then moved to Alabama. And now he's selling it.
One other thing he's selling are some gnome houses where they kept, like, toy gnomes. There's the gnome house.
O'BRIEN: Oh, my goodness.
SERWER: Actually, this gnome house might have belonged to Martha's ex-husband. We're not even clear. There are no gnomes in the house. It's just a little -- Like I said, it's a little different.
CAFFERTY: He probably stayed in it on weekends.
SERWER: A little gnome house. You know what I mean?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Gnome house.
SERWER: Yes.
CAFFERTY: Thanks, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome.
CAFFERTY: On to "The Cafferty File."
One of four Europeans falls asleep at work: either at their desk or during a meeting or on the toilet. The -- well, try to do a complete job on reporting these stories. The Irish are the most likely to sleep on the job. The Dutch are the least likely to do so. Survey said 24 percent of Europeans have slept while at work. Thirty-nine percent said they never have, although they did say they have to make an effort occasionally to stay awake.
California's first lady, Maria Shriver, oh, so busy. One of her latest projects is to develop a line of jewelry featuring the state's landmarks, including the Golden Gate Bridge, the Hollywood sign, Yosemite National Park and even a charm featuring the state's first couple. That would be Maria and the walking barbell. Got to have one of these.
Collection ranges in price from $18 to $170. A quarter of the proceeds go to the California state protocol fund. I have no idea what that is.
HEMMER: Protocol. How to say hello to the government.
CAFFERTY: Doctors -- Doctors and hospitals bid to pay pro sports teams up to $1.5 million to treat their players annually, according to a story in "The New York Times." The teams get the doctor's services either for free or at highly discounted rates.
The New York Mets, for example, are paid more than $1 million a year by the NYU Hospital for Joint Diseases. The hospital provides all its services to the team for free, and in return they get to advertise at Shea stadium; they get free tickets; and they get visits from the Mets players at the hospital events.
SERWER: Yes. "You see Mike Piazza's leg. I fixed that."
CAFFERTY: That's right.
SERWER: The doctor gets to go around and say things like that.
CAFFERTY: That's right. How would you like to go to the doctor and send him a bill for your time?
SERWER: That's so backwards and so nice.
O'BRIEN: Can AMERICAN MORNING strike that kind of deal?
SERWER: We have Sanjay.
O'BRIEN: And get players to come by and visit us.
SERWER: How do we do this with Sanjay?
CAFFERTY: Our medical care is provided by the guy who takes care of the printers in the basement. He'll take care of you, if you have a little injury.
O'BRIEN: Is he going to be delivering me?
HEMMER: We'll get a cart for you down there and you're all set. O'BRIEN: Do I get drugs?
CAFFERTY: Yes.
SERWER: I know a guy.
CAFFERTY: That takes some guts.
O'BRIEN: I'm done.
HEMMER: I like to hear it, actually.
O'BRIEN: No, no.
HEMMER: It's infectious.
Get a break here. In a moment, Vatican City, another birthday for Pope John Paul II. Details ahead. He is 84 today.
Back in a moment, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning: the legal fallout of the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal is set to begin tomorrow. A preview from Baghdad just ahead, here on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: The 9/11 commission back at work at this hour. In fact, a live picture from here in New York City. Was the first response the right response?
Military trials about to begin for the accused in the prison abuse scandal, even as more accusations are revealed.
And the death toll mounting as Israel sends tanks rolling into Gaza, described as the largest offensive there in years.
All ahead this hour, here on AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. Other stories that we're following this morning.
As vacationers return to the beaches, they're finding out that riptides are really bad in some spots this year. In just a few moments, we're going to talk to some children who almost drowned in Florida. We're going to tell you what it took to same them. It was quite a story.
HEMMER: Yes. That it is. You know, it's the time of year for that. Good warning to go out again today. Also, research is starting to get a clearer picture on diets like Atkins and South Beach. They're finding the low carb craze may be plagued by some of the same old problems we've seen in other diets in years past. A look at some of those problems in a moment here.
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