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American Morning
Prisoner Abuse Scandal; Problems With Low-Carb Diets?; 9/11 Investigation: Hearings in New York City
Aired May 18, 2004 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. Other stories that we're following this morning...
As vacationers return to the beaches, they're finding out that riptides are really bad in some spots this year. In just a few moments, we're going to talk to some children who almost drowned in Florida. We're going to tell you what it took to save them. It's quite a story.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, that it is. You know, it's the time of year for that. A good warning to go out again today.
Also, researchers starting to get a clearer picture on diets like Atkins and South Beach. They're finding the low-carb craze may be plagued by some of the same old problems we've seen in other diets in years past. We'll look at some of those problems in a moment here.
O'BRIEN: And Mr. Cafferty, hello again.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing, Ms. O'Brien?
The flood gates were pushed open a little yesterday when the state of Massachusetts began performing same-sex marriages. But questions abound. Who or what now will decide the future of gay marriage in this country? AM@CNN.com is the e-mail address. Write to us, or not.
O'BRIEN: Or do.
CAFFERTY: Or not. Whatever.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jack. Thank you.
Top stories now this morning. And we begin, in fact, in New York City, where a hearing is underway for the 9/11 Commission. The panel is looking at coordination between New York City's police and fire departments with John Farmer, who is now testifying this morning.
The staff of the independent commission say rescuers were plagued by communications problems. The former and current mayors of New York City are expected to testify this morning as well. We'll have a live report on that story just ahead.
The U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq says he has not given up on the hope of a democratic Iraq despite terrorist efforts to stop it. Ambassador Paul Bremer making his remarks at a memorial service for Izzedine Salim, the head of the Iraqi Governing Council, who was killed in a car bombing yesterday. Bremer said the political process toward an interim government in Iraq and elections must continue.
About 100 Israeli tanks and bulldozers rolled into a Palestinian refugee camp near the Gaza-Egypt border following Israeli helicopter strikes. Palestinian sources say at least 18 Palestinians were killed in the latest violence. Israel says it fired missiles at armed militants, but residents in the refugee camp say innocent civilians, in fact, were killed. Israelis commanders had called that camp the gateway of terrorism.
There appears to be no let up in sight for motorists who are dealing with rising gasoline prices. The Energy Department now says the national average retail price of gasoline has topped $2 per gallon for the first time ever. There is a call from some Democratic lawmakers to open up the nation's reserves. Andy Serwer's got more on the story just ahead.
No official events are planned, but there is a celebratory mood at the Vatican today. Pope John Paul II turns 84 years old. His health, of course, a huge concern. But still, the pope celebrates mass and makes many public appearances. Happy birthday to him.
HEMMER: Yes, indeed.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: New information already today about how U.S. forces apparently operated the prison outside of Baghdad. According to The New York Times, intelligence officers at the prison sometimes instructed military police to force Iraqis to strip naked and be shackled before questioning. The paper also quotes the top U.S. interrogation officer is telling Army investigators that there is no formal system to monitor instructions that intel officers had given to MPs. All of this just a day before the first court-martial in the scandal, set to take place tomorrow.
Today, Harris Whitbeck is live in Baghdad today.
Good afternoon there.
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Bill.
Preparations are well underway for the military court proceeding scheduled to begin tomorrow here in Baghdad. Interest in those proceedings is quite high. You'll remember that public outrage was sparked here when those first stories of abuse began to emerge from the Abu Ghraib prison.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK (voice-over): A makeshift courtroom at the Baghdad Convention Center ready for the first of several military courts- martial in the Abu Ghraib abuse cases. There will be lots of room for the press and live simultaneous translation into Arabic. The coalition authorities realize they have to convince public opinion, particularly in Iraq, they are serious about bringing prison abusers to justice. But a day before the special court-martial of Specialist Jeremy Sivits and the arraignment of three others, few in Baghdad seem ready to believe justice will be served.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): While the Americans knew about the torture of the Iraqi detainees before this date, it is a game to help Bush win the elections.
WHITBECK: This shopkeeper says the court-martial will be justice a show and that the those who ordered the abuse are the ones who should be put on trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It should be Iraqi court, not an American, to try the officers in charge. Not the soldiers who executed the orders.
WHITBECK: Sivits is expected to plead guilty to charges of mistreatment of prisoners and dereliction of duty while he was a prison guard at Abu Ghraib. In a pretrial hearing known as an Article 32 in military justice terms, he stated abuse took place, describing, for example, an incident in which a prison guard would strike a detainee with a baseball swing and hit the wounds of detainees. For military court officers, the challenge is in conducting the proceedings under intense scrutiny.
CAPT. ROSE BLEAM, MILITARY JUSTICE OFFICER: We're not looking at the most expeditious manner of conducting these courts-martial. The challenge for all parties involved is to make sure that these courts- martial are conducted as if there is no media attention, as if no one else is looking and scrutinizing what we're doing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK: But the bigger challenge will be in convincing Iraqi public opinion that the U.S. military court system will result in justice, which isn't easy in a country where confidence in the U.S. is not very high -- Bill.
HEMMER: It will be a big day tomorrow, no question. Harris, thanks. Harris Whitbeck in Baghdad.
Retired Commander Mary Hall is a former military judge and Navy JAG lawyer. She's live in D.C. to talk about the case tomorrow of Jeremy Sivits.
Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you there.
CMDR. MARY HALL (RET.), FMR. MILITARY JUDGE: Good morning.
HEMMER: I understand it's not so much that you're interested that Specialist Sivits will plead guilty, but rather to what he will plead to. Describe that for us. Explain that better, if you could.
HALL: Bill, tomorrow's court-martial is going to draw the world's focus very quickly and very carefully on the alleged events of 8 November. Every one of Specialist Sivits' charges are based on the allegations of what occurred in the prison on the 8th of November.
If you compare those charges with what's on Specialist Graner's charge sheet, you'll see that what we're talking about is the pyramid stacking offenses, the allegations that Specialist Graner forced detainees to engage in sexual self-stimulation acts, as well as the allegations of an aggravated assault that Specialist Graner supposedly committed on the 8th of November as well. And so 8th of November is going to be the world's focus tomorrow.
HEMMER: On our screen here this is what apparently he said with investigators. Specialist Sivits said, "Our command would have slammed us," he says, "had they found out. They believe in doing the right thing. If they saw what was going on, there would have been hell to pay."
That's his statement, his comment. Some are saying that he gave the statement just to cop that plea. What do you make of it?
HALL: Well, I think that statement is very interesting when you marry it up with the one charge on Specialist Graner's charge sheet that on the 8th of November he allegedly obstructed justice by telling Specialist Sivits you're not seeing this, or you're not witnessing this.
HEMMER: How much of this is he said, she said?
HALL: This entire case is going to boil down to that. When the contested cases actually go to trial, the other six of the prison seven, if you will, go to trial and they contest this on unlawful order or obedience to an unlawful order defense, the first thing that the military judge is going to charge the panel or jury, if you wish to call it that, is whether or not the order was actually given. Was the accused in that particular case acting pursuant to an order?
So first we have a factual determination of whether or not an order existed, who gave the order, and what were the specifics of the order. For example, an order to strip a detainee is a far cry from an order to have a detainee engage in masturbation acts in front of other detainees and other American MPs.
HEMMER: It's the degree is what you're indicating?
HALL: Absolutely. And it's going to boil down to the specific language of what order was given and who was actually given that order.
We've already had information that military intelligence officers outside of the military police chain of command were involved in interrogations, as well as contractors. So I think the identity of who gave the order, if indeed these orders were given, is going to be very, very important as well.
HEMMER: Now, on another case related to this, Private First Class Lynndie England is her name. I know you said some comments related to what she told The New York Times over the weekend. The quote she gave was, "We thought it looked funny, so pictures were taken."
You say that's incendiary if that is allowed into her case. Why?
HALL: Well, depending upon when she made that statement, I expect the defense would move to try to keep that statement out under a motion to suppress. Any statement that a client gives or an accused gives that looks like it's going to negate what defense are actually raising is something obviously from a strategy viewpoint that a defense counsel wants to keep away from the panel hearing who is hearing the case and having to determine whether or not this order existed and whether or not the soldier was acting in good faith in obeying the order.
HEMMER: Listen, come on back. We'll talk more about it tomorrow. Commander Mary Hall, former military judge down there in D.C. Nice to talk with you.
HALL: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: All right.
Soledad?
O'BRIEN: U.S. officials say more tests are needed to determine if a roadside bomb in Iraq contained the deadly nerve gas sarin. Initial tests show traces of the nerve agent in a artillery shell, which partially exploded as members of a U.S. convoy tried to diffuse it. But Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld urged caution until more is known.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We have to be careful. We can't say something that's inaccurate. So what we have to then do is to try to track down and figure out how it might be there, what caused that to be there in this improvised explosive device.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Treated for possible exposure to sarin after that shell exploded.
HEMMER: In a moment here, those 9/11 Commission hearings underway in New York City. A live picture in downtown Manhattan. They started just a few moments ago. Commissioners hearing some very emotional comments today. We'll get you there in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Also, U.S. troops clash once again with militia men in Iraq. We've got the latest on that just ahead.
HEMMER: And a dramatic riptide rescue off the Florida coast this weekend. We'll hear from some very lucky young girls and the man who saved them. Still to come this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Rip currents are as dangerous as they sound. Powerful ocean currents have been blamed for four deaths so far in south Florida just over the past two weeks alone. Just this past Sunday, in fact, three kids swimming at a beach in Ft. Lauderdale were swept away and nearly drowned.
Earlier today, we talked to the three kids, 11-year-old Katherine Garibello, her brother, and her cousin. Katherine started by recalling what she remembered from conditions early on Sunday morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHERINE GARIBELLO, RIP CURRENT SURVIVOR: I remember that there was no turning back, that there was no way to come in from -- come into the shore.
HEMMER: Give us an idea, Katherine, what you were feeling as the ocean was pushing your body out.
GARIBELLO: As my body was pushing -- the feeling that you couldn't come back as much as you tried. And the waves, the waves that kept hitting us on the back. And after a while we got really tired.
HEMMER: Tell me how you were saved ultimately, Katherine, and the others.
GARIBELLO: Well, first, there was a guy. He was just a bystander. He went in the water to help us. But after awhile, he got really tired, and then that was when the fire rescue crew came. And then there were two guys who he helped me after the guy turned back.
HEMMER: Now that you've had a few days to think about this, are you going to go swimming again in the ocean, Katherine?
GARIBELLO: I don't think so for a very long time.
HEMMER: Wow. I can understand your apprehension. Listen, thanks to you and your brother Christian (ph), and Andres Cordoba (ph), your cousin as well, down there in Ft. Lauderdale.
I want to talk a little bit more about this with the lifeguard involved in that rescue effort. Bill Evans is a member of the Ft. Lauderdale Ocean Rescue squad. He helped pull the three children from the water after they were caught in that current. Bill is with us now as well.
And good morning to you, Bill. How were you able to pull this off on Sunday?
BILL EVANS, FT. LAUDERDALE OCEAN RESCUE: Actually, this was kind of a worst case scenario for us because the lifeguards were not on duty yet. This rescue occurred in the morning prior to us coming out on the beach. A perfect scenario is the lifeguards are on duty, people are swimming in front of a lifeguard tower, and we just actuate the rescue. You know, this would have been actually no big deal, I wouldn't be on CNN, and nobody would have heard of this if it was during the middle of the day. During the course of that same day, we made 13 rescues and 700-some odd preventions and assists.
The reason that you're hearing about the rescue is it occurred with no lifeguards on duty. Therefore, bystanders went in the water to actuate the rescue. People dialed 911, we had fire rescue show up, and we also had the police show up.
So this, for us, ocean rescue lifeguards, is how not to perform a rescue. We really prefer that it be us and that it occur during our duty.
HEMMER: Listen, Bill, we're going to use you as our expert this morning because this is what you do for a living. The statistic is amazing. U.S. Life Saving Association says 80 percent of the nation's surf-related rescues are related to rip currents. So, with that as a backdrop, the tips that you offer, don't panic. Explain that.
EVANS: That's probably the most important tip that we can give people. The rip current is not going to pull you under the water and drown you. What will drown you is panic and exhaustion.
If the person that's in the rip current can relax, ride the rip current out, or better yet, swim parallel to shore, you'll exit the rip current and be able to swim back in. And the waves will push you back in.
What kills people is that they panic. They start fighting the rip current. They try to desperately swim towards shore, and this doesn't occur. A very strong swimmer can fight a rip current, but that's a very small percentage of the population. Most people end up exhausting themselves and they drown due to their exhaustion.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Yes. Luckily, that story ended happily for all three involved there. Rip currents usually happen when high winds pile up sand bars along the beach. When there is a break in the sand bar, the water that was being held back suddenly rushes out to the ocean as if it's pouring down a drain. Very dangerous stuff. Be careful.
Soledad?
O'BRIEN: A $3.5 million cello has now been recovered. The instrument was stolen from the front porch of a Los Angeles musician nearly a month ago. It was made in 1684 by master craftsman Antonio Stadaveri (ph), and is known as the General Kid.
Police have a surveillance tape showing somebody riding away with the cello on a bicycle. I guess that's not funny because it's so expensive. But you can imagine the sight of that. No arrests have been made yet in that case. How are you going to sell a $3.5 million cello? A guy on a bike trying to sell it?
HEMMER: Take it to the museum.
O'BRIEN: Exactly.
Still to come this morning, the first defendant and three more suspects now ready to face military justice in the prison abuse scandal. We'll take a closer look at that this morning.
And now that same-sex marriages are going forward in Massachusetts, are more changes on the horizon? That's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. Time to check in with Jack and the Question of the Day.
Hello.
CAFFERTY: Hello there.
Massachusetts, the first state to grant marriages to same-sex couples. And the ceremonies have left a whole lot of unanswered questions. For example, if the same-sex couples marry in Massachusetts, should they be recognized as married in other states? And should people from other states, gay couples, be able to go to Massachusetts and get married there?
Is it up to the state legislature or is it up to the courts to decide? Or should it be put on a vote nationally? Or should there be an amendment to the Constitution? The question, who should decide the future of the same-sex marriage?
Stephanie writes from Amherst, Massachusetts: "Everyone is so hung up on which legislators and regulators should define the institution of marriage. But has anyone ever stopped to consider why the government is involved in the marriage business in the first place? As a spiritual institution, it seems such a horribly inappropriate place for them to be."
David in Kentucky: "Put it to a vote. Let the American people decide about a constitutional amendment."
Jim in Cambridge, New York: "Rumor has it gay marriage may not be all it's cracked up to be, Jack. Massachusetts bartenders already want a raise for listening to gay men whining their husband doesn't understand them and listening to gay women complain that they found their wives wearing their clothes. Gay divorce initiative on the horizon."
And earlier in the program, Bill Hemmer revealed my given name to the world. In response to that, we got this from Rex in Toronto: "As part of this country's landed aristocracy, I'm pleased to see you dirty your hands with the plight of us mere peasants. Why John Charles? Was Thurston Howell Cafferty, III already taken? This is huge. Thank you, Bill."
I have been on television in New York City for 28 years. I occasionally talk about management and the fact that I don't have a lot of use for some of them. For 28 years, I have been known as Jack Cafferty.
I've worked for CNN for five years. I've been known as Jack Cafferty. But to the mutant who put together the name tags, I am now something else.
HEMMER: You got it. Thank you, john.
O'BRIEN: I'm going to start talking to you as John Charles. Thank you, John Charles. We appreciate that update.
CAFFERTY: I'm just here to help you. Call on me at will.
HEMMER: Will do.
O'BRIEN: Well, today is the 84th birthday of Pope John Paul II. His latest book, "Get Up, Let Us Go" describes his year as a bishop in communist era Poland. It's being published today on his birthday, but there is no other official notice of that anniversary. CNN's Alessio Vinci has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The pope's birthday is never a big deal at the Vatican. In fact, there are no public events planned to mark the occasion. For the Catholic Church, the anniversary that really matters is another one, the date of the pope's election.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Vatican takes the position from the moment of his election as supreme pontiff, it's the pope and not the man who counts. So they actually celebrate the anniversary of his election, which is in October, rather than his birthday, which is in May.
VINCI: Last October, cardinals and church officials the world over traveled to Rome to celebrate John Paul II 25th anniversary as a successor of Peter. Today, in that same St. Peter's square, few tourists are aware of this special day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn't have a clue. Did not know it was the pope's birthday or anything.
VINCI: And now 84, the most traveled pope in history shows no signs of giving up. He has planned for next month another of his landmark trips, this time to Switzerland for a meeting of Catholic youth.
Twenty-four hours before his departure, he will meet for the third time with U.S. President George W. Bush. Vatican officials recently expressed shock and outrage and images of U.S. soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had the former minister of the Vatican, Archbishop Giovanni Loyola (ph). He gave an interview to one of the leading Italian dailies in which he said that this was a more serious blow to the United States than September 11th. And in this case, it was a self-inflicted wound. And I think that's indicative of the kind of magnitude and seriousness of which people inside the Vatican are taking this.
VINCI: It will be a meeting some Vatican officials say during which the pope is expected to tell President Bush the U.S. is too isolated in its Middle East policies and must do something to get more international support.
Alessio Vinci, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: The pope manages to travel so much despite a series of ailments, including symptoms of Parkinson's Disease, arthritis, and the aftermath of his hip replacement surgery.
HEMMER: Break here in a moment. The 9/11 Commission opens a two-day session here in New York City. They opened that session with a stark warning. Details in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: It's 9:30 here in New York City.
O'BRIEN: And, in fact, it's exactly half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
A new round in those 9/11 hearings going on right now in lower Manhattan, where they are gathering evidence about the emergency response to the terrorist attacks. Deb Feyerick is following today's proceedings for us. We are going to check in with her in just a few moments.
HEMMER: And apparently very strong warning at the outset to brace yourself for some -- what could be emotional stuff.
O'BRIEN: On, one has to imagine it's going to be heartbreaking.
HEMMER: That's right.
Also this half-hour, you've heard about all the fast results coming from low-carb diets. What about the problems? Elizabeth Cohen tells us what the researchers are now discovering. We'll tell you in a moment here.
O'BRIEN: Top stories, though, first.
A firefight in the Iraqi holy city of Karbala. There are reports that U.S. forces have killed nine Iraqi insurgents in the fierce battles. The victims are said to be people loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Skirmishes have also been taking place in the holy city of Najaf.
The U.S. military says three of the soldiers implicated in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse case will now be arraigned tomorrow. Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick and Sergeant Javal Davis and Specialist Charles Graner will face a military judge one day earlier than originally scheduled. That is the same day that Specialist Jeremy Sivits faces a court-martial. Sivits is expected to plead guilty in exchange for his testimony on the other prison guards.
In California, some community colleges are gearing up for a huge wave of incoming students. Outgoing high schoolers are expected to flood community schools this coming fall after being turned away from state universities because of budget cuts. Under Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's proposed budgets, both schools are being told to reduce incoming freshmen by about 10 percent.
And forecasters are predicting a very busy hurricane season. Officials say a whopping 12 to 15 tropical storms could hit this year. Some of them expected to be major Category 3 hurricanes with winds up to 130 miles an hour.
HEMMER: Keep them away from land. Sometimes you can't do it, though.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: The commission investigating the 9/11 terror attacks have been conducting today's hearing for about 45 minutes now. Part of its mission today and tomorrow is to take testimony about the city's emergency response on the day of the attacks. Deborah Feyerick in downtown Manhattan has more now with us.
Good morning, Deborah.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Well, commission staffers have been describing the day use eyewitness accounts. They talked about the attack on the north tower, how a jet ball (ph) just shot down the elevator banks reaching some 100 flights below to the basement level. They spoke of the hundreds who died on impact, the hundreds more who were trapped inside, the chaos that ensued, the frantic calls to the 911 operator who simply did not know how to guide people out of the building because they had never been trained for such an attack.
It was very clear, according to the descriptions, that people in the building simply did not know how the stairwells were configured. So they didn't know where the doors opened, where they didn't, where to transfer at different points, making it even more difficult to get out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN FARMER, 9/11 STAFF INVESTIGATOR: Civilians were not, however, directed into the stairwells during these drills. Civilians were not provided with information about configuration of the stairwells and the existence of transfer hallways or smoke doors. Neither full nor even partial evacuation drills were held.
Participation in the fire drills that were held, moreover, varied greatly from tenant to tenant. Civilians were never instructed not to evacuate up. The standard fire drill instructions advised participants that in the event of an actual emergency, they would be directed to descend to at least two floors below the fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: One thing that has always been a point of contention is whether there was an NYPD helicopter circling above and giving warning to those on the streets that the buildings were about to fall. The commission members saying that no such evacuation was ever made, at least not from that NYPD helicopter -- Bill.
HEMMER: You have that NYPD helicopter. There has also been reports about a boat operated by the police on the Hudson River that gave a similar warning, too. Has that come up, Deborah?
FEYERICK: That is one of the things that's going to be mentioned. You know, the big issue right now, were the NYPD, the New York Police Department, and the city fire department talking to each other. Both historically have acted very independently when they arrive at rescue situations. That may have contributed to some of the chaos that ensued. Many people, certainly family members, think that had there been better coordination, had they been talking to one another, perhaps even more people could have been saved.
HEMMER: Deborah Feyerick, thanks, in New York City here.
A bit earlier today, I talked with the commission chairman, Thomas Kean, and vice chairman, Lee Hamilton. Starting with Governor Kean, and the all-too critical issues that he hopes to learn from the two-day session.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THOMAS KEAN, 9/11 COMMISSION CHAIRMAN: We want to learn two things. One is what happened, the real details of the whole day of 9/11, what happened when the planes hit the towers, and what was the response afterwards from emergency personnel.
The second thing is we want to learn from that. We want to learn some lessons, not only for New York City, but for -- to apply in cities in other parts of the country.
HEMMER: Chairman Hamilton, in the metro section of The New York Times today, the headlines say, "Why wasn't the city prepared? The key question from the 9/11 panel." Is that the key question for you?
LEE HAMILTON, 9/11 COMMISSION VICE CHAIRMAN: Well, it's an important one. The commission, I think, approaches this morning's hearings with great sensitivity. We think this is going to be a very emotional day.
We're not sitting in judgment here. We're just trying to learn what happened and why it happened and what the decision-making process was for the firemen and the policemen and the other leaders on the scene. We want to know what's been fixed. A lot of things have happened since 9/11. And then, of course, we want to know what remains to be fixed.
HEMMER: You mentioned the word an emotional day, that phrase. Governor Kean, does it have more emotion, more intimacy, more resonance because you are in Manhattan today with these hearings?
KEAN: There's no question about it. This is the greatest city in the world. It's suffered the greatest tragedy in this nation's history. The shock is still there.
So many people, myself included in this area, who lost a good many friends. And that gives it a poignancy and an emotion that just doesn't -- just wouldn't exist anywhere else. And we're still trying to get over it in New York City.
HEMMER: Chairman Hamilton, there seems to be this contradiction as to what was said over the PA announcement on that day, 9/11/2001, at least one of the towers, as to whether or not maybe hundreds of others could have gotten out of the towers. What have you learned about that statement that may have been a contradiction that could of saved lives?
HAMILTON: Well, look, there was a great deal of confusion on that day. And we're going to try to sort out that confusion, at least the best we can. I must say that confusion is perfectly understandable. The people who were making decisions here were doing it under conditions of extraordinary stress beyond almost anything anyone has imagined before.
We don't want to try to be too judgmental about that. We want to try to put ourselves into their place and understand exactly what happened. I don't want to make any kind of a judgment at this point with regard to fault here. Everybody was doing the very best they could under the circumstances with the equipment and with the facilities that they had.
HEMMER: Governor Kean, earlier in the week you gave an interview saying you believed an al Qaeda attack in this country was imminent. Can you perhaps give us a better indication as to what you meant by that?
KEAN: What I meant was every single expert who we've talked to on the commission says that sometime, someplace, whether it's next month, next year, whenever, that there probably will be another attack, that we can stop 29 attacks, but the 30th might get through, no matter how well prepared we are. And we're just going to make sure that we are prepared to the best of our ability. One, to prevent the attack, if possible, and if god forbid another attack sometime occurs, to have everybody in place to save as many lives as possible.
HEMMER: Do you say that from your own judgment, or do you say that based on information that you are privy to? KEAN: I say that based on -- I don't know if there are any experts in this area. But people from the FBI, the CIA, whoever you talk to who studies this field, including a number of authors, have said that sooner later, they believe that some other attack will get through. And I've based it on that assumption and on their statements, not just on my own judgment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Earlier today, 9/11 Commission Chairman Thomas Kean, Vice Chairman Lee Hamilton. After this week's two-day hearing, the 9/11 Commission continues its work with public hearings on the 8th and 9th of June. They will take place back in Washington, D.C.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, gas prices are at record highs. The markets are looking for a couple of specific events before they will bid prices lower. Andy Serwer has a look at all of that just ahead.
HEMMER: Also, lots of people lose weight on low-carb diets. Doctors agree they work. But some say the plans are not any better than low-fat diets. We'll check it out right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Two new studies are weighing in on the short-term and long-term effects of low-carb dieting. Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen at the CNN Center with details on that for us this morning.
Hey, Elizabeth. Good morning, again.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
Many people -- all of us know people, actually, who are on low- carb diets; it's all the craze. But there is not a whole lot of science that backs up many of the claims that low-carb diets will help you take off weight and keep it off.
So a group of researchers in Philadelphia decided to put some of these claims to the test. They took a group of dieters on they put half of them on a low-carb diet and half of them on a traditional low- fat diet. And what they found one year later was there was not a big difference between those two groups. They both lost about the same amount of weight.
And we asked an editorial writer, a doctor who wrote an editorial in the journal where the studies were published, and we asked him why would that be true, why would there be no difference? And he said because people did stay on the low-carb diets, but they just kept eating more low-carb food and that's why their weight went back up.
So what he says is pay attention to the amounts that you're eating. You may think that you're doing well, but you need to pay attention to how much you're eating. The second thing, exercise regularly. Sometimes when people go on diets, they forget that they also need to exercise. Also, this doctor, Dr. Walter Willet (ph) out of Harvard University, says eat the good carbs. Don't be afraid of carbs, but eat the good carbs, like whole grain breads, and eat the good fats, like nuts and fish, and try to avoid the saturated fats that you find in red meat -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: When they looked at folks after a year who had been on both of these diets, what did they find? Did everybody fall off the wagon regardless of what diet they were on?
COHEN: Well, it was interesting. Not everyone fell off the wagon. What they found was that after a year, some people did great on the low-carb diet. Some people took off 30 pounds and kept it off. But other people took off significant amounts of weight and then gained most of it back again.
So this is a real key point here, which is that some people do do great on low-carb diets, but not everyone. And you have to find the diet that is best for you.
O'BRIEN: I know that there was a second study as well that came out. What did that study find?
COHEN: Right. The first study, the one we've been talking about, was a year long. There was another study people where people went on low-carb diets for six months. And what they found was that people lost the weight and did manage to keep it off for six months. And, in fact, in that study, low-carb diets worked much better than the traditional low-fat diet.
But that was only six months. Six months isn't really long enough for a really gold standard diet study. One year is much more likely. You want to look at the long haul. And what the long haul said is that, in the long haul, a traditional diet and a low-carb diet, people get about the same amount of weight loss.
O'BRIEN: Well, it will be interesting to see what happens at five years and 10 years down the road.
COHEN: Right. That's the really important thing.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Dr. Cohen. You and I agree on this. All right. Elizabeth Cohen for us this morning. Thanks.
And let's head back to Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, stunning news breaking from India, that country of 900 million. Sonia Gandhi elected to prime minister week, and a stunning victory for her party, elections that no one had predicted, now says she will decline the post. She will not seek the prime minister's position in India.
Quoting her, "I most humbly decline this post." There are some indications, some reports already Sonia Gandhi born in India would face a life-threatening situation if a leader not born in India took the top helm. Whatever the case at this point, Sonia Gandhi now declining that she will seek the next prime minister's position there in India.
A story we've been talking about off and on for several days right now. The Indian stock market plummeted earlier in the week. Reports indicated soaring at this point. There were fears about privatization and how the government may or may not change if Sonia Gandhi came into power. More when we get (ph) in a moment here.
In the meantime, lets a get a break. Gas prices climbing into uncharted territory across the country. Andy has the painful reasons why in a moment when we continue after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody. Is AT&T back in the mobile phone business? Good question for the business watchers.
And also, gas prices are ticking ever so higher. Above two bucks a gallon. Here's Andy back with "Minding Your Business."
Good morning. First the markets?
ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Good morning to you. Yes, let's talk about that.
We're bouncing back from Monday's mauling. Stocks have recovered a bit today. Not as much as going down on Monday. We're up about 20 points here on the Dow.
One stock moving to the upside is Home Depot. They reported some very strong profits. The home improvement trend apparently is not over, and that stock is up over a dollar.
Let's talk about this AT&T thing because it's a little confusing, OK? But I'm going to take you through here.
Once upon a time, there was a company called AT&T, Ma Bell, right? Then they decided to get in the cell phone business. They formed a company called AT&T Wireless. They liked it so much, they spun it off to shareholders.
Then, Cingular bought it. Remember that? That was pretty recent. OK?
Now, AT&T says we want to get back into the wireless business. So they're going to form another company to get into the cell phone business. But they don't have a cell phone network anymore because they sold it to Cingular. So what they have to now is basically lease it through Sprint. That's right, their arch rival.
I can't figure out this telecom business at all anymore.
HEMMER: Tell us another story, Andy.
SERWER: Yes. I mean, that's -- it's just bizarre. It's like, if you didn't like the business or didn't want to be in the business, then you sold it, then why do you start the same business just a few months later? It's not the old Ma Bell.
HEMMER: Verizon is beating them up pretty good right now.
SERWER: Verizon -- that's right. They have all of the momentum right now. They really do.
And the big thing coming down the road, voice-over Internet protocol. Your telephone over the Internet, that's the big thing.
Let's talk about gas, though, because, yes, we have hit that big milestone, Bill, $2 a gallon nationwide. Let's take a look -- $2.01, to be exact. That's up seven cents from a week ago, up over 50 cents. Look at that, just $2.23.
We're not getting any relief from the strategic petroleum reserve, according to the administration center. Senator Chuck Schumer later today is going to be calling for that to be released.
And, let's see. Tomorrow there is a grassroots movement, don't buy any gas day. Have you heard about that? It's sort of going around on the Internet. But we are only one week from Friday until the unofficial beginning of summer and heavy driving season.
HEMMER: If you release, let's say, 30 million barrels of oil, what do we use, 20 million a day anyway?
SERWER: That's right.
HEMMER: It's more a psychological impact than anything else.
SERWER: It's almost completely a psychological thing. And, you know, it would have somewhat of an impact, but it wouldn't be a long term one.
HEMMER: What about the news out of India? Much effect today? Sonia Gandhi says she's not going to be prime minister.
SERWER: Not so much here. I mean, big overseas in the Asian markets. But it's very interesting for people who like that stuff.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: All right.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk to Jack about the Question of the Day.
CAFFERTY: The Question of the Day is as follows: Who should ultimately decide the future of same-sex marriage? They started performing them in Massachusetts, but there are a lot of questions that surround what happens next.
Some of the respondents, Terry in Winston-Salem, North Carolina: "Bush promised less involvement by the federal government on issues that should be left to the states. I have yet to see that in action. States should decide the gae marriage issue."
And D.W. in Crescent City, California: "Let's do nothing. It's providing something for the gay folks and the religious folks to argue about. It's an excellent source of income for the TV news programs. Don't change a thing."
SERWER: Wait a second. Is that northeastern Ontario?
CAFFERTY: What? No.
SERWER: The guy's saying I'm a northeastern judge and he's from Ontario? What part of Ontario is that?
CAFFERTY: I don't know, but Reg (ph) writes often, and possesses a certain acumen when it to some of these burning social issues. And as far as northeastern liberal judges, he's absolutely right.
SERWER: That's true. But it's not northeastern Canada?
CAFFERTY: No, it's northeastern here in the United States.
SERWER: Understood.
CAFFERTY: Like up where Massachusetts is.
SERWER: Yes. OK. Got you.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Coming up this morning on CNN, protesting the Iraqi abuse scandal on the streets of Seattle. Full details coming up in the next hour with Daryn Kagan. That's on "CNN LIVE TODAY."
AMERICAN MORNING is back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: And before we head it back to Daryn, we want to give you some good news. Brad and Debbie Fell (ph) had their baby.
HEMMER: All right.
O'BRIEN: His name is Andrew Robert Fell (ph). He was born 2:00 this morning, nine pounds, two ounces. Debbie, we know it was all you. So good for you, girl. Everyone is doing well, we're told.
SERWER: Great name, by the way.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
SERWER: I love that.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Congratulations.
O'BRIEN: We're out of time. Let's head right to Daryn Kagan, who is at the CNN Center and going to take you through the next few hours.
Good morning, Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. You guys have a great day in New York City. We'll go ahead and get started a little bit late here in Atlanta.
Good morning from CNN headquarters. I'm Daryn Kagan. Let's start with the headlines.
First up this hour, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage testify before a Senate committee. The two men are expected to be questioned about the future of Iraq. It's the committee's sixth hearing held on Iraq since April.
Aired May 18, 2004 - 9:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. Other stories that we're following this morning...
As vacationers return to the beaches, they're finding out that riptides are really bad in some spots this year. In just a few moments, we're going to talk to some children who almost drowned in Florida. We're going to tell you what it took to save them. It's quite a story.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, that it is. You know, it's the time of year for that. A good warning to go out again today.
Also, researchers starting to get a clearer picture on diets like Atkins and South Beach. They're finding the low-carb craze may be plagued by some of the same old problems we've seen in other diets in years past. We'll look at some of those problems in a moment here.
O'BRIEN: And Mr. Cafferty, hello again.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: How are you doing, Ms. O'Brien?
The flood gates were pushed open a little yesterday when the state of Massachusetts began performing same-sex marriages. But questions abound. Who or what now will decide the future of gay marriage in this country? AM@CNN.com is the e-mail address. Write to us, or not.
O'BRIEN: Or do.
CAFFERTY: Or not. Whatever.
O'BRIEN: All right, Jack. Thank you.
Top stories now this morning. And we begin, in fact, in New York City, where a hearing is underway for the 9/11 Commission. The panel is looking at coordination between New York City's police and fire departments with John Farmer, who is now testifying this morning.
The staff of the independent commission say rescuers were plagued by communications problems. The former and current mayors of New York City are expected to testify this morning as well. We'll have a live report on that story just ahead.
The U.S. civilian administrator in Iraq says he has not given up on the hope of a democratic Iraq despite terrorist efforts to stop it. Ambassador Paul Bremer making his remarks at a memorial service for Izzedine Salim, the head of the Iraqi Governing Council, who was killed in a car bombing yesterday. Bremer said the political process toward an interim government in Iraq and elections must continue.
About 100 Israeli tanks and bulldozers rolled into a Palestinian refugee camp near the Gaza-Egypt border following Israeli helicopter strikes. Palestinian sources say at least 18 Palestinians were killed in the latest violence. Israel says it fired missiles at armed militants, but residents in the refugee camp say innocent civilians, in fact, were killed. Israelis commanders had called that camp the gateway of terrorism.
There appears to be no let up in sight for motorists who are dealing with rising gasoline prices. The Energy Department now says the national average retail price of gasoline has topped $2 per gallon for the first time ever. There is a call from some Democratic lawmakers to open up the nation's reserves. Andy Serwer's got more on the story just ahead.
No official events are planned, but there is a celebratory mood at the Vatican today. Pope John Paul II turns 84 years old. His health, of course, a huge concern. But still, the pope celebrates mass and makes many public appearances. Happy birthday to him.
HEMMER: Yes, indeed.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: New information already today about how U.S. forces apparently operated the prison outside of Baghdad. According to The New York Times, intelligence officers at the prison sometimes instructed military police to force Iraqis to strip naked and be shackled before questioning. The paper also quotes the top U.S. interrogation officer is telling Army investigators that there is no formal system to monitor instructions that intel officers had given to MPs. All of this just a day before the first court-martial in the scandal, set to take place tomorrow.
Today, Harris Whitbeck is live in Baghdad today.
Good afternoon there.
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Bill.
Preparations are well underway for the military court proceeding scheduled to begin tomorrow here in Baghdad. Interest in those proceedings is quite high. You'll remember that public outrage was sparked here when those first stories of abuse began to emerge from the Abu Ghraib prison.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK (voice-over): A makeshift courtroom at the Baghdad Convention Center ready for the first of several military courts- martial in the Abu Ghraib abuse cases. There will be lots of room for the press and live simultaneous translation into Arabic. The coalition authorities realize they have to convince public opinion, particularly in Iraq, they are serious about bringing prison abusers to justice. But a day before the special court-martial of Specialist Jeremy Sivits and the arraignment of three others, few in Baghdad seem ready to believe justice will be served.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): While the Americans knew about the torture of the Iraqi detainees before this date, it is a game to help Bush win the elections.
WHITBECK: This shopkeeper says the court-martial will be justice a show and that the those who ordered the abuse are the ones who should be put on trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It should be Iraqi court, not an American, to try the officers in charge. Not the soldiers who executed the orders.
WHITBECK: Sivits is expected to plead guilty to charges of mistreatment of prisoners and dereliction of duty while he was a prison guard at Abu Ghraib. In a pretrial hearing known as an Article 32 in military justice terms, he stated abuse took place, describing, for example, an incident in which a prison guard would strike a detainee with a baseball swing and hit the wounds of detainees. For military court officers, the challenge is in conducting the proceedings under intense scrutiny.
CAPT. ROSE BLEAM, MILITARY JUSTICE OFFICER: We're not looking at the most expeditious manner of conducting these courts-martial. The challenge for all parties involved is to make sure that these courts- martial are conducted as if there is no media attention, as if no one else is looking and scrutinizing what we're doing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK: But the bigger challenge will be in convincing Iraqi public opinion that the U.S. military court system will result in justice, which isn't easy in a country where confidence in the U.S. is not very high -- Bill.
HEMMER: It will be a big day tomorrow, no question. Harris, thanks. Harris Whitbeck in Baghdad.
Retired Commander Mary Hall is a former military judge and Navy JAG lawyer. She's live in D.C. to talk about the case tomorrow of Jeremy Sivits.
Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING. Good morning to you there.
CMDR. MARY HALL (RET.), FMR. MILITARY JUDGE: Good morning.
HEMMER: I understand it's not so much that you're interested that Specialist Sivits will plead guilty, but rather to what he will plead to. Describe that for us. Explain that better, if you could.
HALL: Bill, tomorrow's court-martial is going to draw the world's focus very quickly and very carefully on the alleged events of 8 November. Every one of Specialist Sivits' charges are based on the allegations of what occurred in the prison on the 8th of November.
If you compare those charges with what's on Specialist Graner's charge sheet, you'll see that what we're talking about is the pyramid stacking offenses, the allegations that Specialist Graner forced detainees to engage in sexual self-stimulation acts, as well as the allegations of an aggravated assault that Specialist Graner supposedly committed on the 8th of November as well. And so 8th of November is going to be the world's focus tomorrow.
HEMMER: On our screen here this is what apparently he said with investigators. Specialist Sivits said, "Our command would have slammed us," he says, "had they found out. They believe in doing the right thing. If they saw what was going on, there would have been hell to pay."
That's his statement, his comment. Some are saying that he gave the statement just to cop that plea. What do you make of it?
HALL: Well, I think that statement is very interesting when you marry it up with the one charge on Specialist Graner's charge sheet that on the 8th of November he allegedly obstructed justice by telling Specialist Sivits you're not seeing this, or you're not witnessing this.
HEMMER: How much of this is he said, she said?
HALL: This entire case is going to boil down to that. When the contested cases actually go to trial, the other six of the prison seven, if you will, go to trial and they contest this on unlawful order or obedience to an unlawful order defense, the first thing that the military judge is going to charge the panel or jury, if you wish to call it that, is whether or not the order was actually given. Was the accused in that particular case acting pursuant to an order?
So first we have a factual determination of whether or not an order existed, who gave the order, and what were the specifics of the order. For example, an order to strip a detainee is a far cry from an order to have a detainee engage in masturbation acts in front of other detainees and other American MPs.
HEMMER: It's the degree is what you're indicating?
HALL: Absolutely. And it's going to boil down to the specific language of what order was given and who was actually given that order.
We've already had information that military intelligence officers outside of the military police chain of command were involved in interrogations, as well as contractors. So I think the identity of who gave the order, if indeed these orders were given, is going to be very, very important as well.
HEMMER: Now, on another case related to this, Private First Class Lynndie England is her name. I know you said some comments related to what she told The New York Times over the weekend. The quote she gave was, "We thought it looked funny, so pictures were taken."
You say that's incendiary if that is allowed into her case. Why?
HALL: Well, depending upon when she made that statement, I expect the defense would move to try to keep that statement out under a motion to suppress. Any statement that a client gives or an accused gives that looks like it's going to negate what defense are actually raising is something obviously from a strategy viewpoint that a defense counsel wants to keep away from the panel hearing who is hearing the case and having to determine whether or not this order existed and whether or not the soldier was acting in good faith in obeying the order.
HEMMER: Listen, come on back. We'll talk more about it tomorrow. Commander Mary Hall, former military judge down there in D.C. Nice to talk with you.
HALL: Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: All right.
Soledad?
O'BRIEN: U.S. officials say more tests are needed to determine if a roadside bomb in Iraq contained the deadly nerve gas sarin. Initial tests show traces of the nerve agent in a artillery shell, which partially exploded as members of a U.S. convoy tried to diffuse it. But Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld urged caution until more is known.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: We have to be careful. We can't say something that's inaccurate. So what we have to then do is to try to track down and figure out how it might be there, what caused that to be there in this improvised explosive device.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Treated for possible exposure to sarin after that shell exploded.
HEMMER: In a moment here, those 9/11 Commission hearings underway in New York City. A live picture in downtown Manhattan. They started just a few moments ago. Commissioners hearing some very emotional comments today. We'll get you there in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Also, U.S. troops clash once again with militia men in Iraq. We've got the latest on that just ahead.
HEMMER: And a dramatic riptide rescue off the Florida coast this weekend. We'll hear from some very lucky young girls and the man who saved them. Still to come this hour on AMERICAN MORNING.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Rip currents are as dangerous as they sound. Powerful ocean currents have been blamed for four deaths so far in south Florida just over the past two weeks alone. Just this past Sunday, in fact, three kids swimming at a beach in Ft. Lauderdale were swept away and nearly drowned.
Earlier today, we talked to the three kids, 11-year-old Katherine Garibello, her brother, and her cousin. Katherine started by recalling what she remembered from conditions early on Sunday morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHERINE GARIBELLO, RIP CURRENT SURVIVOR: I remember that there was no turning back, that there was no way to come in from -- come into the shore.
HEMMER: Give us an idea, Katherine, what you were feeling as the ocean was pushing your body out.
GARIBELLO: As my body was pushing -- the feeling that you couldn't come back as much as you tried. And the waves, the waves that kept hitting us on the back. And after a while we got really tired.
HEMMER: Tell me how you were saved ultimately, Katherine, and the others.
GARIBELLO: Well, first, there was a guy. He was just a bystander. He went in the water to help us. But after awhile, he got really tired, and then that was when the fire rescue crew came. And then there were two guys who he helped me after the guy turned back.
HEMMER: Now that you've had a few days to think about this, are you going to go swimming again in the ocean, Katherine?
GARIBELLO: I don't think so for a very long time.
HEMMER: Wow. I can understand your apprehension. Listen, thanks to you and your brother Christian (ph), and Andres Cordoba (ph), your cousin as well, down there in Ft. Lauderdale.
I want to talk a little bit more about this with the lifeguard involved in that rescue effort. Bill Evans is a member of the Ft. Lauderdale Ocean Rescue squad. He helped pull the three children from the water after they were caught in that current. Bill is with us now as well.
And good morning to you, Bill. How were you able to pull this off on Sunday?
BILL EVANS, FT. LAUDERDALE OCEAN RESCUE: Actually, this was kind of a worst case scenario for us because the lifeguards were not on duty yet. This rescue occurred in the morning prior to us coming out on the beach. A perfect scenario is the lifeguards are on duty, people are swimming in front of a lifeguard tower, and we just actuate the rescue. You know, this would have been actually no big deal, I wouldn't be on CNN, and nobody would have heard of this if it was during the middle of the day. During the course of that same day, we made 13 rescues and 700-some odd preventions and assists.
The reason that you're hearing about the rescue is it occurred with no lifeguards on duty. Therefore, bystanders went in the water to actuate the rescue. People dialed 911, we had fire rescue show up, and we also had the police show up.
So this, for us, ocean rescue lifeguards, is how not to perform a rescue. We really prefer that it be us and that it occur during our duty.
HEMMER: Listen, Bill, we're going to use you as our expert this morning because this is what you do for a living. The statistic is amazing. U.S. Life Saving Association says 80 percent of the nation's surf-related rescues are related to rip currents. So, with that as a backdrop, the tips that you offer, don't panic. Explain that.
EVANS: That's probably the most important tip that we can give people. The rip current is not going to pull you under the water and drown you. What will drown you is panic and exhaustion.
If the person that's in the rip current can relax, ride the rip current out, or better yet, swim parallel to shore, you'll exit the rip current and be able to swim back in. And the waves will push you back in.
What kills people is that they panic. They start fighting the rip current. They try to desperately swim towards shore, and this doesn't occur. A very strong swimmer can fight a rip current, but that's a very small percentage of the population. Most people end up exhausting themselves and they drown due to their exhaustion.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Yes. Luckily, that story ended happily for all three involved there. Rip currents usually happen when high winds pile up sand bars along the beach. When there is a break in the sand bar, the water that was being held back suddenly rushes out to the ocean as if it's pouring down a drain. Very dangerous stuff. Be careful.
Soledad?
O'BRIEN: A $3.5 million cello has now been recovered. The instrument was stolen from the front porch of a Los Angeles musician nearly a month ago. It was made in 1684 by master craftsman Antonio Stadaveri (ph), and is known as the General Kid.
Police have a surveillance tape showing somebody riding away with the cello on a bicycle. I guess that's not funny because it's so expensive. But you can imagine the sight of that. No arrests have been made yet in that case. How are you going to sell a $3.5 million cello? A guy on a bike trying to sell it?
HEMMER: Take it to the museum.
O'BRIEN: Exactly.
Still to come this morning, the first defendant and three more suspects now ready to face military justice in the prison abuse scandal. We'll take a closer look at that this morning.
And now that same-sex marriages are going forward in Massachusetts, are more changes on the horizon? That's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. Time to check in with Jack and the Question of the Day.
Hello.
CAFFERTY: Hello there.
Massachusetts, the first state to grant marriages to same-sex couples. And the ceremonies have left a whole lot of unanswered questions. For example, if the same-sex couples marry in Massachusetts, should they be recognized as married in other states? And should people from other states, gay couples, be able to go to Massachusetts and get married there?
Is it up to the state legislature or is it up to the courts to decide? Or should it be put on a vote nationally? Or should there be an amendment to the Constitution? The question, who should decide the future of the same-sex marriage?
Stephanie writes from Amherst, Massachusetts: "Everyone is so hung up on which legislators and regulators should define the institution of marriage. But has anyone ever stopped to consider why the government is involved in the marriage business in the first place? As a spiritual institution, it seems such a horribly inappropriate place for them to be."
David in Kentucky: "Put it to a vote. Let the American people decide about a constitutional amendment."
Jim in Cambridge, New York: "Rumor has it gay marriage may not be all it's cracked up to be, Jack. Massachusetts bartenders already want a raise for listening to gay men whining their husband doesn't understand them and listening to gay women complain that they found their wives wearing their clothes. Gay divorce initiative on the horizon."
And earlier in the program, Bill Hemmer revealed my given name to the world. In response to that, we got this from Rex in Toronto: "As part of this country's landed aristocracy, I'm pleased to see you dirty your hands with the plight of us mere peasants. Why John Charles? Was Thurston Howell Cafferty, III already taken? This is huge. Thank you, Bill."
I have been on television in New York City for 28 years. I occasionally talk about management and the fact that I don't have a lot of use for some of them. For 28 years, I have been known as Jack Cafferty.
I've worked for CNN for five years. I've been known as Jack Cafferty. But to the mutant who put together the name tags, I am now something else.
HEMMER: You got it. Thank you, john.
O'BRIEN: I'm going to start talking to you as John Charles. Thank you, John Charles. We appreciate that update.
CAFFERTY: I'm just here to help you. Call on me at will.
HEMMER: Will do.
O'BRIEN: Well, today is the 84th birthday of Pope John Paul II. His latest book, "Get Up, Let Us Go" describes his year as a bishop in communist era Poland. It's being published today on his birthday, but there is no other official notice of that anniversary. CNN's Alessio Vinci has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The pope's birthday is never a big deal at the Vatican. In fact, there are no public events planned to mark the occasion. For the Catholic Church, the anniversary that really matters is another one, the date of the pope's election.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Vatican takes the position from the moment of his election as supreme pontiff, it's the pope and not the man who counts. So they actually celebrate the anniversary of his election, which is in October, rather than his birthday, which is in May.
VINCI: Last October, cardinals and church officials the world over traveled to Rome to celebrate John Paul II 25th anniversary as a successor of Peter. Today, in that same St. Peter's square, few tourists are aware of this special day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Didn't have a clue. Did not know it was the pope's birthday or anything.
VINCI: And now 84, the most traveled pope in history shows no signs of giving up. He has planned for next month another of his landmark trips, this time to Switzerland for a meeting of Catholic youth.
Twenty-four hours before his departure, he will meet for the third time with U.S. President George W. Bush. Vatican officials recently expressed shock and outrage and images of U.S. soldiers torturing Iraqi prisoners.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had the former minister of the Vatican, Archbishop Giovanni Loyola (ph). He gave an interview to one of the leading Italian dailies in which he said that this was a more serious blow to the United States than September 11th. And in this case, it was a self-inflicted wound. And I think that's indicative of the kind of magnitude and seriousness of which people inside the Vatican are taking this.
VINCI: It will be a meeting some Vatican officials say during which the pope is expected to tell President Bush the U.S. is too isolated in its Middle East policies and must do something to get more international support.
Alessio Vinci, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: The pope manages to travel so much despite a series of ailments, including symptoms of Parkinson's Disease, arthritis, and the aftermath of his hip replacement surgery.
HEMMER: Break here in a moment. The 9/11 Commission opens a two-day session here in New York City. They opened that session with a stark warning. Details in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: It's 9:30 here in New York City.
O'BRIEN: And, in fact, it's exactly half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
A new round in those 9/11 hearings going on right now in lower Manhattan, where they are gathering evidence about the emergency response to the terrorist attacks. Deb Feyerick is following today's proceedings for us. We are going to check in with her in just a few moments.
HEMMER: And apparently very strong warning at the outset to brace yourself for some -- what could be emotional stuff.
O'BRIEN: On, one has to imagine it's going to be heartbreaking.
HEMMER: That's right.
Also this half-hour, you've heard about all the fast results coming from low-carb diets. What about the problems? Elizabeth Cohen tells us what the researchers are now discovering. We'll tell you in a moment here.
O'BRIEN: Top stories, though, first.
A firefight in the Iraqi holy city of Karbala. There are reports that U.S. forces have killed nine Iraqi insurgents in the fierce battles. The victims are said to be people loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Skirmishes have also been taking place in the holy city of Najaf.
The U.S. military says three of the soldiers implicated in the Abu Ghraib prison abuse case will now be arraigned tomorrow. Staff Sergeant Ivan Frederick and Sergeant Javal Davis and Specialist Charles Graner will face a military judge one day earlier than originally scheduled. That is the same day that Specialist Jeremy Sivits faces a court-martial. Sivits is expected to plead guilty in exchange for his testimony on the other prison guards.
In California, some community colleges are gearing up for a huge wave of incoming students. Outgoing high schoolers are expected to flood community schools this coming fall after being turned away from state universities because of budget cuts. Under Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's proposed budgets, both schools are being told to reduce incoming freshmen by about 10 percent.
And forecasters are predicting a very busy hurricane season. Officials say a whopping 12 to 15 tropical storms could hit this year. Some of them expected to be major Category 3 hurricanes with winds up to 130 miles an hour.
HEMMER: Keep them away from land. Sometimes you can't do it, though.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: The commission investigating the 9/11 terror attacks have been conducting today's hearing for about 45 minutes now. Part of its mission today and tomorrow is to take testimony about the city's emergency response on the day of the attacks. Deborah Feyerick in downtown Manhattan has more now with us.
Good morning, Deborah.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Well, commission staffers have been describing the day use eyewitness accounts. They talked about the attack on the north tower, how a jet ball (ph) just shot down the elevator banks reaching some 100 flights below to the basement level. They spoke of the hundreds who died on impact, the hundreds more who were trapped inside, the chaos that ensued, the frantic calls to the 911 operator who simply did not know how to guide people out of the building because they had never been trained for such an attack.
It was very clear, according to the descriptions, that people in the building simply did not know how the stairwells were configured. So they didn't know where the doors opened, where they didn't, where to transfer at different points, making it even more difficult to get out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN FARMER, 9/11 STAFF INVESTIGATOR: Civilians were not, however, directed into the stairwells during these drills. Civilians were not provided with information about configuration of the stairwells and the existence of transfer hallways or smoke doors. Neither full nor even partial evacuation drills were held.
Participation in the fire drills that were held, moreover, varied greatly from tenant to tenant. Civilians were never instructed not to evacuate up. The standard fire drill instructions advised participants that in the event of an actual emergency, they would be directed to descend to at least two floors below the fire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
FEYERICK: One thing that has always been a point of contention is whether there was an NYPD helicopter circling above and giving warning to those on the streets that the buildings were about to fall. The commission members saying that no such evacuation was ever made, at least not from that NYPD helicopter -- Bill.
HEMMER: You have that NYPD helicopter. There has also been reports about a boat operated by the police on the Hudson River that gave a similar warning, too. Has that come up, Deborah?
FEYERICK: That is one of the things that's going to be mentioned. You know, the big issue right now, were the NYPD, the New York Police Department, and the city fire department talking to each other. Both historically have acted very independently when they arrive at rescue situations. That may have contributed to some of the chaos that ensued. Many people, certainly family members, think that had there been better coordination, had they been talking to one another, perhaps even more people could have been saved.
HEMMER: Deborah Feyerick, thanks, in New York City here.
A bit earlier today, I talked with the commission chairman, Thomas Kean, and vice chairman, Lee Hamilton. Starting with Governor Kean, and the all-too critical issues that he hopes to learn from the two-day session.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THOMAS KEAN, 9/11 COMMISSION CHAIRMAN: We want to learn two things. One is what happened, the real details of the whole day of 9/11, what happened when the planes hit the towers, and what was the response afterwards from emergency personnel.
The second thing is we want to learn from that. We want to learn some lessons, not only for New York City, but for -- to apply in cities in other parts of the country.
HEMMER: Chairman Hamilton, in the metro section of The New York Times today, the headlines say, "Why wasn't the city prepared? The key question from the 9/11 panel." Is that the key question for you?
LEE HAMILTON, 9/11 COMMISSION VICE CHAIRMAN: Well, it's an important one. The commission, I think, approaches this morning's hearings with great sensitivity. We think this is going to be a very emotional day.
We're not sitting in judgment here. We're just trying to learn what happened and why it happened and what the decision-making process was for the firemen and the policemen and the other leaders on the scene. We want to know what's been fixed. A lot of things have happened since 9/11. And then, of course, we want to know what remains to be fixed.
HEMMER: You mentioned the word an emotional day, that phrase. Governor Kean, does it have more emotion, more intimacy, more resonance because you are in Manhattan today with these hearings?
KEAN: There's no question about it. This is the greatest city in the world. It's suffered the greatest tragedy in this nation's history. The shock is still there.
So many people, myself included in this area, who lost a good many friends. And that gives it a poignancy and an emotion that just doesn't -- just wouldn't exist anywhere else. And we're still trying to get over it in New York City.
HEMMER: Chairman Hamilton, there seems to be this contradiction as to what was said over the PA announcement on that day, 9/11/2001, at least one of the towers, as to whether or not maybe hundreds of others could have gotten out of the towers. What have you learned about that statement that may have been a contradiction that could of saved lives?
HAMILTON: Well, look, there was a great deal of confusion on that day. And we're going to try to sort out that confusion, at least the best we can. I must say that confusion is perfectly understandable. The people who were making decisions here were doing it under conditions of extraordinary stress beyond almost anything anyone has imagined before.
We don't want to try to be too judgmental about that. We want to try to put ourselves into their place and understand exactly what happened. I don't want to make any kind of a judgment at this point with regard to fault here. Everybody was doing the very best they could under the circumstances with the equipment and with the facilities that they had.
HEMMER: Governor Kean, earlier in the week you gave an interview saying you believed an al Qaeda attack in this country was imminent. Can you perhaps give us a better indication as to what you meant by that?
KEAN: What I meant was every single expert who we've talked to on the commission says that sometime, someplace, whether it's next month, next year, whenever, that there probably will be another attack, that we can stop 29 attacks, but the 30th might get through, no matter how well prepared we are. And we're just going to make sure that we are prepared to the best of our ability. One, to prevent the attack, if possible, and if god forbid another attack sometime occurs, to have everybody in place to save as many lives as possible.
HEMMER: Do you say that from your own judgment, or do you say that based on information that you are privy to? KEAN: I say that based on -- I don't know if there are any experts in this area. But people from the FBI, the CIA, whoever you talk to who studies this field, including a number of authors, have said that sooner later, they believe that some other attack will get through. And I've based it on that assumption and on their statements, not just on my own judgment.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: Earlier today, 9/11 Commission Chairman Thomas Kean, Vice Chairman Lee Hamilton. After this week's two-day hearing, the 9/11 Commission continues its work with public hearings on the 8th and 9th of June. They will take place back in Washington, D.C.
O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, gas prices are at record highs. The markets are looking for a couple of specific events before they will bid prices lower. Andy Serwer has a look at all of that just ahead.
HEMMER: Also, lots of people lose weight on low-carb diets. Doctors agree they work. But some say the plans are not any better than low-fat diets. We'll check it out right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Two new studies are weighing in on the short-term and long-term effects of low-carb dieting. Medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen at the CNN Center with details on that for us this morning.
Hey, Elizabeth. Good morning, again.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Soledad.
Many people -- all of us know people, actually, who are on low- carb diets; it's all the craze. But there is not a whole lot of science that backs up many of the claims that low-carb diets will help you take off weight and keep it off.
So a group of researchers in Philadelphia decided to put some of these claims to the test. They took a group of dieters on they put half of them on a low-carb diet and half of them on a traditional low- fat diet. And what they found one year later was there was not a big difference between those two groups. They both lost about the same amount of weight.
And we asked an editorial writer, a doctor who wrote an editorial in the journal where the studies were published, and we asked him why would that be true, why would there be no difference? And he said because people did stay on the low-carb diets, but they just kept eating more low-carb food and that's why their weight went back up.
So what he says is pay attention to the amounts that you're eating. You may think that you're doing well, but you need to pay attention to how much you're eating. The second thing, exercise regularly. Sometimes when people go on diets, they forget that they also need to exercise. Also, this doctor, Dr. Walter Willet (ph) out of Harvard University, says eat the good carbs. Don't be afraid of carbs, but eat the good carbs, like whole grain breads, and eat the good fats, like nuts and fish, and try to avoid the saturated fats that you find in red meat -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: When they looked at folks after a year who had been on both of these diets, what did they find? Did everybody fall off the wagon regardless of what diet they were on?
COHEN: Well, it was interesting. Not everyone fell off the wagon. What they found was that after a year, some people did great on the low-carb diet. Some people took off 30 pounds and kept it off. But other people took off significant amounts of weight and then gained most of it back again.
So this is a real key point here, which is that some people do do great on low-carb diets, but not everyone. And you have to find the diet that is best for you.
O'BRIEN: I know that there was a second study as well that came out. What did that study find?
COHEN: Right. The first study, the one we've been talking about, was a year long. There was another study people where people went on low-carb diets for six months. And what they found was that people lost the weight and did manage to keep it off for six months. And, in fact, in that study, low-carb diets worked much better than the traditional low-fat diet.
But that was only six months. Six months isn't really long enough for a really gold standard diet study. One year is much more likely. You want to look at the long haul. And what the long haul said is that, in the long haul, a traditional diet and a low-carb diet, people get about the same amount of weight loss.
O'BRIEN: Well, it will be interesting to see what happens at five years and 10 years down the road.
COHEN: Right. That's the really important thing.
O'BRIEN: Thank you, Dr. Cohen. You and I agree on this. All right. Elizabeth Cohen for us this morning. Thanks.
And let's head back to Bill.
HEMMER: Soledad, stunning news breaking from India, that country of 900 million. Sonia Gandhi elected to prime minister week, and a stunning victory for her party, elections that no one had predicted, now says she will decline the post. She will not seek the prime minister's position in India.
Quoting her, "I most humbly decline this post." There are some indications, some reports already Sonia Gandhi born in India would face a life-threatening situation if a leader not born in India took the top helm. Whatever the case at this point, Sonia Gandhi now declining that she will seek the next prime minister's position there in India.
A story we've been talking about off and on for several days right now. The Indian stock market plummeted earlier in the week. Reports indicated soaring at this point. There were fears about privatization and how the government may or may not change if Sonia Gandhi came into power. More when we get (ph) in a moment here.
In the meantime, lets a get a break. Gas prices climbing into uncharted territory across the country. Andy has the painful reasons why in a moment when we continue after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back, everybody. Is AT&T back in the mobile phone business? Good question for the business watchers.
And also, gas prices are ticking ever so higher. Above two bucks a gallon. Here's Andy back with "Minding Your Business."
Good morning. First the markets?
ANDY SERWER, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, FORTUNE MAGAZINE: Good morning to you. Yes, let's talk about that.
We're bouncing back from Monday's mauling. Stocks have recovered a bit today. Not as much as going down on Monday. We're up about 20 points here on the Dow.
One stock moving to the upside is Home Depot. They reported some very strong profits. The home improvement trend apparently is not over, and that stock is up over a dollar.
Let's talk about this AT&T thing because it's a little confusing, OK? But I'm going to take you through here.
Once upon a time, there was a company called AT&T, Ma Bell, right? Then they decided to get in the cell phone business. They formed a company called AT&T Wireless. They liked it so much, they spun it off to shareholders.
Then, Cingular bought it. Remember that? That was pretty recent. OK?
Now, AT&T says we want to get back into the wireless business. So they're going to form another company to get into the cell phone business. But they don't have a cell phone network anymore because they sold it to Cingular. So what they have to now is basically lease it through Sprint. That's right, their arch rival.
I can't figure out this telecom business at all anymore.
HEMMER: Tell us another story, Andy.
SERWER: Yes. I mean, that's -- it's just bizarre. It's like, if you didn't like the business or didn't want to be in the business, then you sold it, then why do you start the same business just a few months later? It's not the old Ma Bell.
HEMMER: Verizon is beating them up pretty good right now.
SERWER: Verizon -- that's right. They have all of the momentum right now. They really do.
And the big thing coming down the road, voice-over Internet protocol. Your telephone over the Internet, that's the big thing.
Let's talk about gas, though, because, yes, we have hit that big milestone, Bill, $2 a gallon nationwide. Let's take a look -- $2.01, to be exact. That's up seven cents from a week ago, up over 50 cents. Look at that, just $2.23.
We're not getting any relief from the strategic petroleum reserve, according to the administration center. Senator Chuck Schumer later today is going to be calling for that to be released.
And, let's see. Tomorrow there is a grassroots movement, don't buy any gas day. Have you heard about that? It's sort of going around on the Internet. But we are only one week from Friday until the unofficial beginning of summer and heavy driving season.
HEMMER: If you release, let's say, 30 million barrels of oil, what do we use, 20 million a day anyway?
SERWER: That's right.
HEMMER: It's more a psychological impact than anything else.
SERWER: It's almost completely a psychological thing. And, you know, it would have somewhat of an impact, but it wouldn't be a long term one.
HEMMER: What about the news out of India? Much effect today? Sonia Gandhi says she's not going to be prime minister.
SERWER: Not so much here. I mean, big overseas in the Asian markets. But it's very interesting for people who like that stuff.
HEMMER: Thank you, Andy.
SERWER: Yes.
HEMMER: All right.
O'BRIEN: Let's talk to Jack about the Question of the Day.
CAFFERTY: The Question of the Day is as follows: Who should ultimately decide the future of same-sex marriage? They started performing them in Massachusetts, but there are a lot of questions that surround what happens next.
Some of the respondents, Terry in Winston-Salem, North Carolina: "Bush promised less involvement by the federal government on issues that should be left to the states. I have yet to see that in action. States should decide the gae marriage issue."
And D.W. in Crescent City, California: "Let's do nothing. It's providing something for the gay folks and the religious folks to argue about. It's an excellent source of income for the TV news programs. Don't change a thing."
SERWER: Wait a second. Is that northeastern Ontario?
CAFFERTY: What? No.
SERWER: The guy's saying I'm a northeastern judge and he's from Ontario? What part of Ontario is that?
CAFFERTY: I don't know, but Reg (ph) writes often, and possesses a certain acumen when it to some of these burning social issues. And as far as northeastern liberal judges, he's absolutely right.
SERWER: That's true. But it's not northeastern Canada?
CAFFERTY: No, it's northeastern here in the United States.
SERWER: Understood.
CAFFERTY: Like up where Massachusetts is.
SERWER: Yes. OK. Got you.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
O'BRIEN: Coming up this morning on CNN, protesting the Iraqi abuse scandal on the streets of Seattle. Full details coming up in the next hour with Daryn Kagan. That's on "CNN LIVE TODAY."
AMERICAN MORNING is back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: And before we head it back to Daryn, we want to give you some good news. Brad and Debbie Fell (ph) had their baby.
HEMMER: All right.
O'BRIEN: His name is Andrew Robert Fell (ph). He was born 2:00 this morning, nine pounds, two ounces. Debbie, we know it was all you. So good for you, girl. Everyone is doing well, we're told.
SERWER: Great name, by the way.
O'BRIEN: Yes.
SERWER: I love that.
(CROSSTALK)
HEMMER: Congratulations.
O'BRIEN: We're out of time. Let's head right to Daryn Kagan, who is at the CNN Center and going to take you through the next few hours.
Good morning, Daryn.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. You guys have a great day in New York City. We'll go ahead and get started a little bit late here in Atlanta.
Good morning from CNN headquarters. I'm Daryn Kagan. Let's start with the headlines.
First up this hour, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage testify before a Senate committee. The two men are expected to be questioned about the future of Iraq. It's the committee's sixth hearing held on Iraq since April.
