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CNN Live At Daybreak
President Bush Meets Pope John Paul II
Aired June 04, 2004 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The president and the pontiff -- a momentous occasion at the Vatican this morning. You're taking a live look at the Vatican. We're going to take you there again shortly.
It is Friday, June 4.
This is DAYBREAK.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Let me bring you up to date now.
President Bush and the first lady in Rome this morning. Just moments ago, the president met with Italian President Carlo Ciampi. Mr. Bush meets with the pope shortly. The president is hoping his European visit will lead to more support for the rehabilitation of Iraq.
Pakistan test fires another missile today. It's the second test this week. Pakistani officials say the test is not meant to alarm India, its nuclear rival.
In money news, OPEC agrees to increase its oil output by two million barrels a day beginning July 1. A Saudi official says that should bring global oil prices down.
In sports, the Calgary Flames can clinch their second Stanley Cup with a win tomorrow. The Flames beat the Tampa Bay Lightning 3-2 last night in overtime. That gives them a 3-2 game lead.
In culture, Harry Potter and his magic wand return to the theaters. The latest from author J.K. Rowling, "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban," opens today, but you will have to leave your potions at the door -- Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right.
We'll do that and behave. Don't bother the people around you. Enjoy your popcorn.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Let's take you live to the Vatican once again, where President Bush will shortly meet with Pope John Paul. You're looking at one of the beautiful buildings within the Vatican. In front, Vatican escorts. They're standing there in the more traditional looking suits. The men in the colorful uniforms are, of course, the Swiss Guard, in uniforms designed by Michelangelo that remain to this day.
John King, our White House correspondent, our chief White House correspondent, traveling with the president.
He's live on the phone for us right now -- good morning, John.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you from Rome, Carol.
COSTELLO: Oh, it must be beautiful there.
KING: It is quite spectacular. And you can see the pictures, as you just described them, in the central courtyard of the Vatican grounds. The president is actually running a few minutes late. He's coming to see the pope from a meeting with the Italian president, Carlo Ciampi. And you see the Vatican staff as well as many of the pope's deputies, the cardinals, waiting for Mr. Bush in the courtyard.
Interesting meeting. Of course, Pope John Paul II an outspoken opponent of the war in Iraq and the Vatican also has raised concerns of late about the prisoner abuses by U.S. military personnel at the Abu Ghraib Prison. Mr. Bush, we are told, will assure the pope that everything is being done to bring those responsible to justice and a bit of international policy, but also some domestic politics here. Mr. Bush, of course, wants to court Catholic voters back at home and he's very happy to have an opportunity to sit down with the pope today...
COSTELLO: True, it's always...
KING: ... not only to talk with him, but to present him with the presidential Medal of Freedom.
COSTELLO: It's always good to have that photo-op, isn't it, when you're running for president once again?
I understand it's also going to be a sort of a forward looking conversation with the pope in regards to the rehabilitation of Iraq.
What can the Vatican do to help?
KING: Well, certainly words of support for the new government from the Vatican would be helpful. Mr. Bush, of course, has the support of Italy's prime minister. He will move on from Italy to France, of course, a vocal opponent of the war. Anything the pope can say about turning the corner from war to peace symbolically and diplomatically should help the president. It's no secret, of course, that the pope and the entire Vatican completely opposed the war and thought the United States should have stayed at the United Nations and kept up diplomacy.
But any words of encouragement would fit with the president's theme on this trip, which is to put the bitter debate about war behind him and try to move on to talking about the reconstruction and the political transition. That's what the president would like to talk about.
COSTELLO: I don't know exactly where you're located, but can you see any protesters around the Vatican outside of the Vatican, of course?
KING: Our Rome bureau has had crews out during the day and so far the protests are relatively modest. The Italian government has deployed some 10,000 security forces and they have warned of violent protests. But so far, at least on this day, very modest protests. The main event is scheduled for about four hours from now, the biggest protest. So we will see how that turns out.
But as of this hour, Carol, as the president prepares to meet with Pope John Paul II, the number of protesters quite significantly lower than many had predicted.
COSTELLO: When the president meets later with Silvio Berlusconi, what do you suppose they will talk about? Will the president ask for additional help in Iraq?
KING: The Italians have about 2,700 forces in Iraq right now. No expectations from the White House that that number would go up at all. Most important to the president is that the Italian prime minister voice his commitment to keep those troops there, alongside the U.S. and other coalition forces, until the job is done. That is an issue -- of course, the president met just yesterday with the Australian prime minister, who faces an election later this year. And his opponent has said he would pull out any Australian troops.
So Mr. Bush not expecting more troops. But what he wants is more words from one of his allies in Europe that he believes the peacekeeping mission now, the security mission is critical and that those forces should stay until the new Iraqi government is up and running and has its own security forces.
That could go, of course, into later next year, perhaps even early 2006. And it's a difficult spot for Prime Minister Berlusconi, much like it is for the British prime minister, Tony Blair. He has been supporting the president from the beginning and facing significant opposition and political criticism at home for doing so.
COSTELLO: I suppose the president might have a rougher time when he visits France.
What do you suppose his reception will be like there?
KING: Well, again, the president trying to turn the page, if you will, and open a new chapter. A bit of we told you so from the French. We had an interview with the French ambassador to the United States the other day. And he said that France and others in Europe always knew that the United States could win the war and win the war quite quickly, but that it would need help from the international community and the United Nations in securing the peace. But the French, as well, saying look, it's time to move on. They believe their position was the right position, but they are working and they are forcing some compromises from the administration on the language of that new United Nations resolution and the fact that it has already been amended twice.
And that the White House says it is open to even more compromises is a sign of how very much the president wants to have a unanimous vote in the Security Council and wants to move on and wants now to get French support, German support, other international support for this new interim Iraqi administration. And to get it, the president is promising that the U.S. troops, unless something dire happens in Iraq, will be out of Iraq by January, 2006.
COSTELLO: OK, I understand that President Bush has arrived.
How will this process work, John?
KING: It is -- the president goes inside first and he meets with some of the pope's deputies. Then he will have a private meeting with Pope John Paul II. And then there is the public session, in which both leaders will make statements. And then the official White House party, we'll also have a chance to have a very brief audience and a blessing with Pope John Paul II.
COSTELLO: Will there be a private meeting at some point between the pope and the president?
KING: Yes, they will sit down in private with one-on-one. The pope will have a small aide with him and there will be translators, of course. And the pope speaks English. And I was here with Vice President Cheney in January and, you know, the pope obviously suffers from Parkinson's and he said it's quite remarkable, his energy level at the beginning of the meeting, Vice President Cheney said, was quite high, and then it did tail off a little bit.
But they will have a private meeting and then the public ceremony.
COSTELLO: Yes, I was going to ask you about the pope's health, because, you know, there are some people saying that he should step down. But, in fact, the pope is off to Switzerland after this event.
KING: I can tell you, the vice president said that he found him to be simply remarkable and that, yes, he has the illnesses and you can see the obvious, the manifestations of that, but that he found the people to be very bright, very sharp.
COSTELLO: Although I expect this meeting to be, oh, a little tough for the president. He's probably glad to be away from Washington at this point with George Tenet's resignation and all.
KING: Well, the timing of that was quite interesting. And, again, everyone at the White House says the president was surprised.
And you see the cars, the motorcade coming into the main courtyard at the Vatican now. That the president very much wished George Tenet had stayed on, but respected his reasons and -- but even, Carol, as the White House says, they wish George Tenet would stay, in a way, they say it symbolizes what the president hopes to be happening in the Iraq debate, moving past the debate over weapons of mass destruction, moving past the debate over whether it was wise to go to war in the first place, trying now to focus on the political transition.
You see the president's limousine there driving into the courtyard at the Vatican.
COSTELLO: Yes, it's just a beautiful picture to watch, isn't it, just the pomp and ceremony that takes place within the Vatican, and, actually, within all of Italy? They just have a certain flair about doing things.
KING: It is a beautiful, beautiful city and a reminder how young, if you will, what a baby the United States is.
COSTELLO: Truly so. The buildings within the Vatican are just so ornate and so beautiful.
The president -- well, let's watch for just a moment to see what happens.
We'll watch.
You see the president now, John, meeting with one of the cardinals there. And he's going to be let in where from here?
KING: He will go inside the building here and you go upstairs to the first level and he has a very brief meeting -- you see as the president's greeting the cardinals here and then the Vatican staff outside. And then he will go directly up into his private meeting with Pope John Paul II. That will come first and then there will be the public statements.
COSTELLO: And I believe the men that he's shaking hands with now are employees of the Vatican? They're Vatican escorts?
KING: Yes, Vatican escorts. Ushers, you might -- the White House staff, they call them ushers. It is a very cherished position here. And, again, when I was on the grounds in January, they were very colorful men while they were waiting. They were engaged in great humor. But they also have a great high honor for them.
COSTELLO: Oh, you can only imagine.
The president is going to present the pope with this presidential Medal of Freedom, as you said.
Why the gesture?
KING: Because of the high regard in which the president holds the pope for his long service. The presidential Medal of Freedom was first established by President Truman in 1945 and it is considered the highest civilian award, the highest award a president can give to a civilian. It's often given to people who have long philanthropic service in the United States. The president deciding on this trip that he wants to bestow that honor on the pontiff, as well.
COSTELLO: You know, the pope has held his office for so very long and his influence in the world is still so very great.
KING: It certainly is. And what White House officials like to stress, too, is that this president is in agreement with the pope on many issues; obviously disagreement on the war in Iraq, but Mr. Bush is a firm opponent of abortion rights. That puts his position in sync with the Vatican. The pope in the past, when Mr. Bush first met with him, raised the issue of stem cell research and the president has taken steps in that area that the Vatican is in favor of. And, of course, Mr. Bush speaks oftenly and openly about his own Christian faith and Vatican officials say that is something the pope likes to see is political leaders around the world talk about their faith and how important faith can be.
COSTELLO: All right, John King, many thanks to you for taking us through this beautiful ceremony. And when we know more, we'll get back to you.
You're looking at live pictures from the Vatican, where President Bush is just going in to meet with Pope John Paul II.
Still to come on DAYBREAK, more on one of our top stories. CIA Chief George Tenet stepping down. And what a controversial Iraqi figure has to say about this resignation. You won't believe what Ahmad Chalabi has to say.
Then, one insurance company wants to help you lose weight. Could your weight loss goals be covered?
And start your engines -- the latest wave of hybrid technology is catching on with drivers who want to avoid paying those high prices at the pump.
This is DAYBREAK for June 4.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: I'm sorry to break out of that (COMMERCIAL BREAK), but, of course, these pictures are much more interesting to see, I'll bet.
Sorry to our advertisers.
You're taking a look at pictures inside one of the buildings in the Vatican. This is quite unusual, that we're allowed this kind of access. Of course, President Bush is making his way in to meet Pope John Paul II. And you can see the Vatican escorts in the front.
John King, are you there?
This is so unusual. We were surprised that we were granted this access.
KING: I'm still with you, Carol.
This is a live feed that we are getting thanks to Vatican television. It is unique to see the live pictures. Obviously, the president being escorted through. And it's a magnificent building. And he is making his way now -- a magnificent complex -- he's making his way now...
COSTELLO: Oh, you can see the first lady, as well.
Tell us a little bit about this building.
Is this where the pope's residence is?
KING: Yes. This is -- he is in the section now where the pope has his residence and a study and some meeting rooms and reception -- diplomatic reception rooms that the pope uses. The president and first lady being escorted in now. The first time the president came to Rome, he saw the pope at his summer retreat. This time, of course, the president making his way through the halls of the Vatican. And he will have, as we said earlier, both a private meeting with the pope and then some public statements.
And it will be very interesting to see whether the pope addresses the previous period, the war in Iraq, and whether he specifically mentions the prisoner abuse scandal at all. Again, Mr. Bush is here to assure the pope that those abuses in his view, the president's view, are isolated, and that those responsible will be brought to justice.
COSTELLO: You know, I was just wondering if there was any significance to the fact they're meeting inside the pope's residence, as far as his health is concerned?
KING: No, this is where, whether it would be the president of the United States or the president of some other country, were they in Rome and had an audience with the pope, this is where it would take place. This is a routine that past presidents of the United States have gone through, coming into the Vatican building. When the pope is here, this is his office and his home and this is where any visiting dignitary would come. No, in the sense of no concerns about his health in that regard.
COSTELLO: Oh, there's such a sense of history here and looking at the Swiss Guards in the front, to imagine that their uniforms were designed by Michelangelo thousands of years ago.
KING: And designed the Swiss Guard at a time when there was tension in relations between Italy and the Vatican.
COSTELLO: Tell us again what the pope is expected to say to the president.
Will he ask -- oh, let's watch this. Again, John, extraordinary pictures. I don't believe I've ever seen anything like this, inside one of the buildings at the Vatican, where the pope has his office and his residence. And you say that this is taking place on Vatican television right now.
Is this normal?
KING: It is quite interesting. You think of the Vatican as one of the oldest institutions in society and yet it has adapted quite well to the modern media age we live into. If you go to St. Peter's Square now, especially on Sundays, a huge crowd gathers outside because the pope tends to come out at noon and bless the crowd and have brief remarks for the crowd. There is a giant television screen there that feeds you a live image of that, because the pope appears in his study at the very upper floor window in the Vatican and he's very difficult to see. And they beam that picture in on a live giant, wide screen as if you're in Times Square.
COSTELLO: You know, I've been to that and it's like a rock star pops his head out the window. People are carrying large signs and some of them are in tears because they're just so moved by the sight of the pope.
KING: It's remarkable. They have live music there and there's a very festive scene. And then the moment those shutters open, it falls completely silent.
COSTELLO: We're just taking a look at some of the beautiful architecture and art work of the buildings inside the Vatican. Tell us about what is looks like outside of the Vatican walls.
Are there protesters gathered? Do you see the presence of the Italian military keeping the peace?
KING: We have seen security forces out in numbers. Again, the Italian government saying 10,000 mobilized for the possibility of violent protests. The main protest today scheduled for four o'clock this afternoon.
This picture you see here is the larger diplomatic greeting room where the public statements will take place after the private meeting now under way.
The security forces out. Prime Minister Berlusconi yesterday voicing concerns there could be violent protests. But so far on this day, from the work of our Rome bureau here and other news agencies in Rome, a very modest number of protests out so far. We'll see if they develop into larger protests later today.
COSTELLO: And it's interesting that the number of protesters so small, because anti-Bush posters have fliers have been spread around the city.
How do the Italians feel about the American president and the American people? KING: Italians are generally fond of Americans and we should remind our viewers back in the United States, the president's main event on this trip is the 60th anniversary of the D-Day invasion in France. But it is also the 60th anniversary of the Allied liberation of Rome. So there's a great sense of historical pride and historical ties between the two peoples.
The American people, I think, are held overwhelmingly in high regard.
President Bush is quite controversial here in Italy and across Europe. And on the way in, many posters not only critical of President Bush, but critical of Prime Minister Berlusconi for his support of President Bush.
This president is quite a divisive figure across Europe and he is grateful for the support of Prime Minister Berlusconi, one of the leaders, again, like the former Spanish prime minister, Mr. Aznar, whose party was voted out of office, and Prime Minister Tony Blair in Great Britain, who had stood with Mr. Bush and his Iraq policy despite overwhelmingly -- overwhelming opposition to it here in Italy and across Europe.
COSTELLO: I want to be a little cynical now about the world of politics, a world you know quite well, John King.
You know, one of the Vatican's cardinals came out and said that communion shouldn't be given to Catholic politicians. And there was a big hullabaloo about that. And now this photo opportunity for President Bush to be with the pope.
Who requested this meeting?
KING: The White House requested this meeting and the president actually moved up his schedule a little bit to make sure that he could fit this in with the pope's schedule today. Now, the White House would say that that is the president of the United States, as the leader of the United States and as an international leader, wanting to meet with just a revered figure, a remarkable figure in Pope John Paul II.
White House officials do not dispute that there, of course, could be some domestic political benefit to the president as he courts the Catholic Vatican, which is a key swing constituency in many of the key November battleground states. They insist that's not the main reason he's here, but they certainly say that this president wants to have very good relations with the man he considers to be just a remarkable and highly regarded world figure.
COSTELLO: You know, it's made me wonder if John Kerry requested a meeting if he would be granted a meeting with the pope.
KING: You know, that's a question perhaps we should put to the Vatican. Senator Kerry, of course, has said that he has his own Catholic faith and that he believes he should be able to receive communion and that he believes religion and politics should have a very firm firewall between them, if you will.
I don't think we'll see the president wade into that. But, of course, his political team is well aware that you and I and other media organizations will have conversations like this when we talk about this meeting.
COSTELLO: And we can see the president has approached the pope once again. I just wish we had a microphone a little closer so that we could overhear it. But, alas. Of course, that's a taped portion, I should mention that. The image you're seeing on the left is tape, the image you're seeing on the right is live.
Have they gone into the private residence, John? Can you see if they're having their private meeting as of yet?
KING: That room where you saw the president go in and greet the pope is the pope's study. That is where the private meeting is taking place as we speak. And now you're seeing just amazing pictures inside the Vatican. This is a larger room where the visit -- reception room where the pope generally has visiting heads of states and other dignitaries, where they would make the public remarks. And you see the two delegations there, as well. Mr. Bush accompanied not only by the first lady, but by senior members of his staff and the secretary of state, Colin Powell.
COSTELLO: And just to bring our viewers up to date as to what these two men will be talking about, our viewers, just so you know, we're live at the Vatican this morning. President Bush landed in Rome, Air Force One landed about midnight Rome time. And, of course, he's up early on our time schedule to meet with the pope.
John, tell our viewers again what the pope and the president are expected to talk about.
KING: Well, the president's main goal here, the White House says, is to simply pay a courtesy call and to voice his respect and admiration for Pope John Paul II. Burt because the Vatican of late has expressed public concern about the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq, the president's aides tell us he also will be quite forceful in assuring the pope that not only those abuses, in his view, isolated, but that they are being thoroughly investigated and that those responsible will be brought to justice. And we are told that Mr. Bush understands the pope's opposition to the war in Iraq and fully expects the pope to revoice that opposition and to voice his concerns about the continued U.S. military presence in Iraq; that Mr. Bush will assure the pope that the goal now is to speed up and go as quickly as possible with the political transition and that it is his hope that within a year or so, the Iraqi government will have a full security force of its own and that the U.S. and other coalition troops will be able to leave.
But White House officials also stress the president will continue to insist that he believes that the war was the right decision for him to make and that he believes the world is far safer and that human rights in Iraq will be much more respected now that Saddam Hussein is gone from power. COSTELLO: And we're taking a look, again, at the Swiss Guard in their traditional uniforms at the Vatican.
Where will the president go from here?
KING: Mr. Bush, after the statements here at the Vatican, he has some private time in Rome today, this afternoon, some private time back at the hotel. He also will thank Americans who work here at the U.S. Embassy. And then he will have a very important dinner tonight with the prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, who, again, has sent some 2,700 Italian forces into Iraq and has been a very strong supporter of this president despite the tough political situation that puts Prime Minister Berlusconi in here at home.
COSTELLO: And, of course, there's nothing the president or many Americans would like more than to have Italy commit more troops to Iraq.
Is that a possibility?
KING: No one at the White House is expecting more Italian troops in Iraq. The biggest goal, they say, is keeping the 2,700 to 3,000 who are there now, as they rotate out and just when they're deployments rotate out. The Bush administration says the most important thing is to at least keep the international commitments that it has.
Months ago, the U.S. was hoping at this point, when you had a political transition, when you were moving ahead with a new United Nations resolution, that that could mean hundreds, if not thousands, of more international troops in Iraq. But the White House says that those hopes are long dashed, Carol, because of the opposition and the criticism. The White House is just hoping now to keep the international partners, including Italy, that it already has.
COSTELLO: And just to make our viewers aware of what they're looking at, these are pictures inside of the Vatican courtesy of the Vatican TV.
Can you tell us what building we're looking at again, John?
KING: This is the main central building in the Vatican, where the pope has his private study; also has his diplomatic reception areas. It is all connected, of course, the Vatican is. It's a relatively small complex, an island, if you will, considered its own nation, the Holy See, in the center of Rome. And you see the breathtaking paintings on the wall. I don't even know how to describe them.
The president is in the pope's study now and then they will come out to deliver the public statements.
COSTELLO: After this, the president -- after his meetings later today in Italy and after the private time that you were speaking of, he'll travel to France, right? KING: He does. He travels to France Saturday afternoon Europe time. He will have, then, a working dinner with Prime Minister Jacques Chirac, much as you were saying you'd like to know what was going on in private here at the Vatican, it would be quite interesting, as well, to know what goes on in the private conversations between President Bush and his perhaps most vocal public critic in the war in Iraq, the French president, Jacques Chirac.
COSTELLO: I mean will they be talking about the U.N. resolution?
KING: They certainly will be. And the White House is hoping to come away with strong words of support from the French president for what comes in the future. They know he opposed the war and is not going to bend on that. But a key point for the administration is to try to get a unanimous vote on the U.N. Security Council.
To do that, the White House says it has to take into account the questions of France and other nations. It already has added language in the resolution saying the occupation forces, including the U.S. troops, would leave Iraq no later than January 2006. That change already made to comply with French concerns. And the French government has said it wants to make even more changes to that language. And the president's not at the point where he will be directly negotiating language with the French president, but certainly he'll be listening to his concerns.
COSTELLO: John King, we're going to take a break.
We're going to break away, as we await the president and the pope to come out to hopefully make some public statement.
John King, thanks for sticking with us and bringing us these beautiful images and interesting information live from inside the Vatican.
DAYBREAK will return right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired June 4, 2004 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: The president and the pontiff -- a momentous occasion at the Vatican this morning. You're taking a live look at the Vatican. We're going to take you there again shortly.
It is Friday, June 4.
This is DAYBREAK.
And good morning to you.
From the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta, I'm Carol Costello.
Let me bring you up to date now.
President Bush and the first lady in Rome this morning. Just moments ago, the president met with Italian President Carlo Ciampi. Mr. Bush meets with the pope shortly. The president is hoping his European visit will lead to more support for the rehabilitation of Iraq.
Pakistan test fires another missile today. It's the second test this week. Pakistani officials say the test is not meant to alarm India, its nuclear rival.
In money news, OPEC agrees to increase its oil output by two million barrels a day beginning July 1. A Saudi official says that should bring global oil prices down.
In sports, the Calgary Flames can clinch their second Stanley Cup with a win tomorrow. The Flames beat the Tampa Bay Lightning 3-2 last night in overtime. That gives them a 3-2 game lead.
In culture, Harry Potter and his magic wand return to the theaters. The latest from author J.K. Rowling, "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban," opens today, but you will have to leave your potions at the door -- Rob.
ROB MARCIANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right.
We'll do that and behave. Don't bother the people around you. Enjoy your popcorn.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COSTELLO: Let's take you live to the Vatican once again, where President Bush will shortly meet with Pope John Paul. You're looking at one of the beautiful buildings within the Vatican. In front, Vatican escorts. They're standing there in the more traditional looking suits. The men in the colorful uniforms are, of course, the Swiss Guard, in uniforms designed by Michelangelo that remain to this day.
John King, our White House correspondent, our chief White House correspondent, traveling with the president.
He's live on the phone for us right now -- good morning, John.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you from Rome, Carol.
COSTELLO: Oh, it must be beautiful there.
KING: It is quite spectacular. And you can see the pictures, as you just described them, in the central courtyard of the Vatican grounds. The president is actually running a few minutes late. He's coming to see the pope from a meeting with the Italian president, Carlo Ciampi. And you see the Vatican staff as well as many of the pope's deputies, the cardinals, waiting for Mr. Bush in the courtyard.
Interesting meeting. Of course, Pope John Paul II an outspoken opponent of the war in Iraq and the Vatican also has raised concerns of late about the prisoner abuses by U.S. military personnel at the Abu Ghraib Prison. Mr. Bush, we are told, will assure the pope that everything is being done to bring those responsible to justice and a bit of international policy, but also some domestic politics here. Mr. Bush, of course, wants to court Catholic voters back at home and he's very happy to have an opportunity to sit down with the pope today...
COSTELLO: True, it's always...
KING: ... not only to talk with him, but to present him with the presidential Medal of Freedom.
COSTELLO: It's always good to have that photo-op, isn't it, when you're running for president once again?
I understand it's also going to be a sort of a forward looking conversation with the pope in regards to the rehabilitation of Iraq.
What can the Vatican do to help?
KING: Well, certainly words of support for the new government from the Vatican would be helpful. Mr. Bush, of course, has the support of Italy's prime minister. He will move on from Italy to France, of course, a vocal opponent of the war. Anything the pope can say about turning the corner from war to peace symbolically and diplomatically should help the president. It's no secret, of course, that the pope and the entire Vatican completely opposed the war and thought the United States should have stayed at the United Nations and kept up diplomacy.
But any words of encouragement would fit with the president's theme on this trip, which is to put the bitter debate about war behind him and try to move on to talking about the reconstruction and the political transition. That's what the president would like to talk about.
COSTELLO: I don't know exactly where you're located, but can you see any protesters around the Vatican outside of the Vatican, of course?
KING: Our Rome bureau has had crews out during the day and so far the protests are relatively modest. The Italian government has deployed some 10,000 security forces and they have warned of violent protests. But so far, at least on this day, very modest protests. The main event is scheduled for about four hours from now, the biggest protest. So we will see how that turns out.
But as of this hour, Carol, as the president prepares to meet with Pope John Paul II, the number of protesters quite significantly lower than many had predicted.
COSTELLO: When the president meets later with Silvio Berlusconi, what do you suppose they will talk about? Will the president ask for additional help in Iraq?
KING: The Italians have about 2,700 forces in Iraq right now. No expectations from the White House that that number would go up at all. Most important to the president is that the Italian prime minister voice his commitment to keep those troops there, alongside the U.S. and other coalition forces, until the job is done. That is an issue -- of course, the president met just yesterday with the Australian prime minister, who faces an election later this year. And his opponent has said he would pull out any Australian troops.
So Mr. Bush not expecting more troops. But what he wants is more words from one of his allies in Europe that he believes the peacekeeping mission now, the security mission is critical and that those forces should stay until the new Iraqi government is up and running and has its own security forces.
That could go, of course, into later next year, perhaps even early 2006. And it's a difficult spot for Prime Minister Berlusconi, much like it is for the British prime minister, Tony Blair. He has been supporting the president from the beginning and facing significant opposition and political criticism at home for doing so.
COSTELLO: I suppose the president might have a rougher time when he visits France.
What do you suppose his reception will be like there?
KING: Well, again, the president trying to turn the page, if you will, and open a new chapter. A bit of we told you so from the French. We had an interview with the French ambassador to the United States the other day. And he said that France and others in Europe always knew that the United States could win the war and win the war quite quickly, but that it would need help from the international community and the United Nations in securing the peace. But the French, as well, saying look, it's time to move on. They believe their position was the right position, but they are working and they are forcing some compromises from the administration on the language of that new United Nations resolution and the fact that it has already been amended twice.
And that the White House says it is open to even more compromises is a sign of how very much the president wants to have a unanimous vote in the Security Council and wants to move on and wants now to get French support, German support, other international support for this new interim Iraqi administration. And to get it, the president is promising that the U.S. troops, unless something dire happens in Iraq, will be out of Iraq by January, 2006.
COSTELLO: OK, I understand that President Bush has arrived.
How will this process work, John?
KING: It is -- the president goes inside first and he meets with some of the pope's deputies. Then he will have a private meeting with Pope John Paul II. And then there is the public session, in which both leaders will make statements. And then the official White House party, we'll also have a chance to have a very brief audience and a blessing with Pope John Paul II.
COSTELLO: Will there be a private meeting at some point between the pope and the president?
KING: Yes, they will sit down in private with one-on-one. The pope will have a small aide with him and there will be translators, of course. And the pope speaks English. And I was here with Vice President Cheney in January and, you know, the pope obviously suffers from Parkinson's and he said it's quite remarkable, his energy level at the beginning of the meeting, Vice President Cheney said, was quite high, and then it did tail off a little bit.
But they will have a private meeting and then the public ceremony.
COSTELLO: Yes, I was going to ask you about the pope's health, because, you know, there are some people saying that he should step down. But, in fact, the pope is off to Switzerland after this event.
KING: I can tell you, the vice president said that he found him to be simply remarkable and that, yes, he has the illnesses and you can see the obvious, the manifestations of that, but that he found the people to be very bright, very sharp.
COSTELLO: Although I expect this meeting to be, oh, a little tough for the president. He's probably glad to be away from Washington at this point with George Tenet's resignation and all.
KING: Well, the timing of that was quite interesting. And, again, everyone at the White House says the president was surprised.
And you see the cars, the motorcade coming into the main courtyard at the Vatican now. That the president very much wished George Tenet had stayed on, but respected his reasons and -- but even, Carol, as the White House says, they wish George Tenet would stay, in a way, they say it symbolizes what the president hopes to be happening in the Iraq debate, moving past the debate over weapons of mass destruction, moving past the debate over whether it was wise to go to war in the first place, trying now to focus on the political transition.
You see the president's limousine there driving into the courtyard at the Vatican.
COSTELLO: Yes, it's just a beautiful picture to watch, isn't it, just the pomp and ceremony that takes place within the Vatican, and, actually, within all of Italy? They just have a certain flair about doing things.
KING: It is a beautiful, beautiful city and a reminder how young, if you will, what a baby the United States is.
COSTELLO: Truly so. The buildings within the Vatican are just so ornate and so beautiful.
The president -- well, let's watch for just a moment to see what happens.
We'll watch.
You see the president now, John, meeting with one of the cardinals there. And he's going to be let in where from here?
KING: He will go inside the building here and you go upstairs to the first level and he has a very brief meeting -- you see as the president's greeting the cardinals here and then the Vatican staff outside. And then he will go directly up into his private meeting with Pope John Paul II. That will come first and then there will be the public statements.
COSTELLO: And I believe the men that he's shaking hands with now are employees of the Vatican? They're Vatican escorts?
KING: Yes, Vatican escorts. Ushers, you might -- the White House staff, they call them ushers. It is a very cherished position here. And, again, when I was on the grounds in January, they were very colorful men while they were waiting. They were engaged in great humor. But they also have a great high honor for them.
COSTELLO: Oh, you can only imagine.
The president is going to present the pope with this presidential Medal of Freedom, as you said.
Why the gesture?
KING: Because of the high regard in which the president holds the pope for his long service. The presidential Medal of Freedom was first established by President Truman in 1945 and it is considered the highest civilian award, the highest award a president can give to a civilian. It's often given to people who have long philanthropic service in the United States. The president deciding on this trip that he wants to bestow that honor on the pontiff, as well.
COSTELLO: You know, the pope has held his office for so very long and his influence in the world is still so very great.
KING: It certainly is. And what White House officials like to stress, too, is that this president is in agreement with the pope on many issues; obviously disagreement on the war in Iraq, but Mr. Bush is a firm opponent of abortion rights. That puts his position in sync with the Vatican. The pope in the past, when Mr. Bush first met with him, raised the issue of stem cell research and the president has taken steps in that area that the Vatican is in favor of. And, of course, Mr. Bush speaks oftenly and openly about his own Christian faith and Vatican officials say that is something the pope likes to see is political leaders around the world talk about their faith and how important faith can be.
COSTELLO: All right, John King, many thanks to you for taking us through this beautiful ceremony. And when we know more, we'll get back to you.
You're looking at live pictures from the Vatican, where President Bush is just going in to meet with Pope John Paul II.
Still to come on DAYBREAK, more on one of our top stories. CIA Chief George Tenet stepping down. And what a controversial Iraqi figure has to say about this resignation. You won't believe what Ahmad Chalabi has to say.
Then, one insurance company wants to help you lose weight. Could your weight loss goals be covered?
And start your engines -- the latest wave of hybrid technology is catching on with drivers who want to avoid paying those high prices at the pump.
This is DAYBREAK for June 4.
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COSTELLO: I'm sorry to break out of that (COMMERCIAL BREAK), but, of course, these pictures are much more interesting to see, I'll bet.
Sorry to our advertisers.
You're taking a look at pictures inside one of the buildings in the Vatican. This is quite unusual, that we're allowed this kind of access. Of course, President Bush is making his way in to meet Pope John Paul II. And you can see the Vatican escorts in the front.
John King, are you there?
This is so unusual. We were surprised that we were granted this access.
KING: I'm still with you, Carol.
This is a live feed that we are getting thanks to Vatican television. It is unique to see the live pictures. Obviously, the president being escorted through. And it's a magnificent building. And he is making his way now -- a magnificent complex -- he's making his way now...
COSTELLO: Oh, you can see the first lady, as well.
Tell us a little bit about this building.
Is this where the pope's residence is?
KING: Yes. This is -- he is in the section now where the pope has his residence and a study and some meeting rooms and reception -- diplomatic reception rooms that the pope uses. The president and first lady being escorted in now. The first time the president came to Rome, he saw the pope at his summer retreat. This time, of course, the president making his way through the halls of the Vatican. And he will have, as we said earlier, both a private meeting with the pope and then some public statements.
And it will be very interesting to see whether the pope addresses the previous period, the war in Iraq, and whether he specifically mentions the prisoner abuse scandal at all. Again, Mr. Bush is here to assure the pope that those abuses in his view, the president's view, are isolated, and that those responsible will be brought to justice.
COSTELLO: You know, I was just wondering if there was any significance to the fact they're meeting inside the pope's residence, as far as his health is concerned?
KING: No, this is where, whether it would be the president of the United States or the president of some other country, were they in Rome and had an audience with the pope, this is where it would take place. This is a routine that past presidents of the United States have gone through, coming into the Vatican building. When the pope is here, this is his office and his home and this is where any visiting dignitary would come. No, in the sense of no concerns about his health in that regard.
COSTELLO: Oh, there's such a sense of history here and looking at the Swiss Guards in the front, to imagine that their uniforms were designed by Michelangelo thousands of years ago.
KING: And designed the Swiss Guard at a time when there was tension in relations between Italy and the Vatican.
COSTELLO: Tell us again what the pope is expected to say to the president.
Will he ask -- oh, let's watch this. Again, John, extraordinary pictures. I don't believe I've ever seen anything like this, inside one of the buildings at the Vatican, where the pope has his office and his residence. And you say that this is taking place on Vatican television right now.
Is this normal?
KING: It is quite interesting. You think of the Vatican as one of the oldest institutions in society and yet it has adapted quite well to the modern media age we live into. If you go to St. Peter's Square now, especially on Sundays, a huge crowd gathers outside because the pope tends to come out at noon and bless the crowd and have brief remarks for the crowd. There is a giant television screen there that feeds you a live image of that, because the pope appears in his study at the very upper floor window in the Vatican and he's very difficult to see. And they beam that picture in on a live giant, wide screen as if you're in Times Square.
COSTELLO: You know, I've been to that and it's like a rock star pops his head out the window. People are carrying large signs and some of them are in tears because they're just so moved by the sight of the pope.
KING: It's remarkable. They have live music there and there's a very festive scene. And then the moment those shutters open, it falls completely silent.
COSTELLO: We're just taking a look at some of the beautiful architecture and art work of the buildings inside the Vatican. Tell us about what is looks like outside of the Vatican walls.
Are there protesters gathered? Do you see the presence of the Italian military keeping the peace?
KING: We have seen security forces out in numbers. Again, the Italian government saying 10,000 mobilized for the possibility of violent protests. The main protest today scheduled for four o'clock this afternoon.
This picture you see here is the larger diplomatic greeting room where the public statements will take place after the private meeting now under way.
The security forces out. Prime Minister Berlusconi yesterday voicing concerns there could be violent protests. But so far on this day, from the work of our Rome bureau here and other news agencies in Rome, a very modest number of protests out so far. We'll see if they develop into larger protests later today.
COSTELLO: And it's interesting that the number of protesters so small, because anti-Bush posters have fliers have been spread around the city.
How do the Italians feel about the American president and the American people? KING: Italians are generally fond of Americans and we should remind our viewers back in the United States, the president's main event on this trip is the 60th anniversary of the D-Day invasion in France. But it is also the 60th anniversary of the Allied liberation of Rome. So there's a great sense of historical pride and historical ties between the two peoples.
The American people, I think, are held overwhelmingly in high regard.
President Bush is quite controversial here in Italy and across Europe. And on the way in, many posters not only critical of President Bush, but critical of Prime Minister Berlusconi for his support of President Bush.
This president is quite a divisive figure across Europe and he is grateful for the support of Prime Minister Berlusconi, one of the leaders, again, like the former Spanish prime minister, Mr. Aznar, whose party was voted out of office, and Prime Minister Tony Blair in Great Britain, who had stood with Mr. Bush and his Iraq policy despite overwhelmingly -- overwhelming opposition to it here in Italy and across Europe.
COSTELLO: I want to be a little cynical now about the world of politics, a world you know quite well, John King.
You know, one of the Vatican's cardinals came out and said that communion shouldn't be given to Catholic politicians. And there was a big hullabaloo about that. And now this photo opportunity for President Bush to be with the pope.
Who requested this meeting?
KING: The White House requested this meeting and the president actually moved up his schedule a little bit to make sure that he could fit this in with the pope's schedule today. Now, the White House would say that that is the president of the United States, as the leader of the United States and as an international leader, wanting to meet with just a revered figure, a remarkable figure in Pope John Paul II.
White House officials do not dispute that there, of course, could be some domestic political benefit to the president as he courts the Catholic Vatican, which is a key swing constituency in many of the key November battleground states. They insist that's not the main reason he's here, but they certainly say that this president wants to have very good relations with the man he considers to be just a remarkable and highly regarded world figure.
COSTELLO: You know, it's made me wonder if John Kerry requested a meeting if he would be granted a meeting with the pope.
KING: You know, that's a question perhaps we should put to the Vatican. Senator Kerry, of course, has said that he has his own Catholic faith and that he believes he should be able to receive communion and that he believes religion and politics should have a very firm firewall between them, if you will.
I don't think we'll see the president wade into that. But, of course, his political team is well aware that you and I and other media organizations will have conversations like this when we talk about this meeting.
COSTELLO: And we can see the president has approached the pope once again. I just wish we had a microphone a little closer so that we could overhear it. But, alas. Of course, that's a taped portion, I should mention that. The image you're seeing on the left is tape, the image you're seeing on the right is live.
Have they gone into the private residence, John? Can you see if they're having their private meeting as of yet?
KING: That room where you saw the president go in and greet the pope is the pope's study. That is where the private meeting is taking place as we speak. And now you're seeing just amazing pictures inside the Vatican. This is a larger room where the visit -- reception room where the pope generally has visiting heads of states and other dignitaries, where they would make the public remarks. And you see the two delegations there, as well. Mr. Bush accompanied not only by the first lady, but by senior members of his staff and the secretary of state, Colin Powell.
COSTELLO: And just to bring our viewers up to date as to what these two men will be talking about, our viewers, just so you know, we're live at the Vatican this morning. President Bush landed in Rome, Air Force One landed about midnight Rome time. And, of course, he's up early on our time schedule to meet with the pope.
John, tell our viewers again what the pope and the president are expected to talk about.
KING: Well, the president's main goal here, the White House says, is to simply pay a courtesy call and to voice his respect and admiration for Pope John Paul II. Burt because the Vatican of late has expressed public concern about the prisoner abuse scandal in Iraq, the president's aides tell us he also will be quite forceful in assuring the pope that not only those abuses, in his view, isolated, but that they are being thoroughly investigated and that those responsible will be brought to justice. And we are told that Mr. Bush understands the pope's opposition to the war in Iraq and fully expects the pope to revoice that opposition and to voice his concerns about the continued U.S. military presence in Iraq; that Mr. Bush will assure the pope that the goal now is to speed up and go as quickly as possible with the political transition and that it is his hope that within a year or so, the Iraqi government will have a full security force of its own and that the U.S. and other coalition troops will be able to leave.
But White House officials also stress the president will continue to insist that he believes that the war was the right decision for him to make and that he believes the world is far safer and that human rights in Iraq will be much more respected now that Saddam Hussein is gone from power. COSTELLO: And we're taking a look, again, at the Swiss Guard in their traditional uniforms at the Vatican.
Where will the president go from here?
KING: Mr. Bush, after the statements here at the Vatican, he has some private time in Rome today, this afternoon, some private time back at the hotel. He also will thank Americans who work here at the U.S. Embassy. And then he will have a very important dinner tonight with the prime minister, Silvio Berlusconi, who, again, has sent some 2,700 Italian forces into Iraq and has been a very strong supporter of this president despite the tough political situation that puts Prime Minister Berlusconi in here at home.
COSTELLO: And, of course, there's nothing the president or many Americans would like more than to have Italy commit more troops to Iraq.
Is that a possibility?
KING: No one at the White House is expecting more Italian troops in Iraq. The biggest goal, they say, is keeping the 2,700 to 3,000 who are there now, as they rotate out and just when they're deployments rotate out. The Bush administration says the most important thing is to at least keep the international commitments that it has.
Months ago, the U.S. was hoping at this point, when you had a political transition, when you were moving ahead with a new United Nations resolution, that that could mean hundreds, if not thousands, of more international troops in Iraq. But the White House says that those hopes are long dashed, Carol, because of the opposition and the criticism. The White House is just hoping now to keep the international partners, including Italy, that it already has.
COSTELLO: And just to make our viewers aware of what they're looking at, these are pictures inside of the Vatican courtesy of the Vatican TV.
Can you tell us what building we're looking at again, John?
KING: This is the main central building in the Vatican, where the pope has his private study; also has his diplomatic reception areas. It is all connected, of course, the Vatican is. It's a relatively small complex, an island, if you will, considered its own nation, the Holy See, in the center of Rome. And you see the breathtaking paintings on the wall. I don't even know how to describe them.
The president is in the pope's study now and then they will come out to deliver the public statements.
COSTELLO: After this, the president -- after his meetings later today in Italy and after the private time that you were speaking of, he'll travel to France, right? KING: He does. He travels to France Saturday afternoon Europe time. He will have, then, a working dinner with Prime Minister Jacques Chirac, much as you were saying you'd like to know what was going on in private here at the Vatican, it would be quite interesting, as well, to know what goes on in the private conversations between President Bush and his perhaps most vocal public critic in the war in Iraq, the French president, Jacques Chirac.
COSTELLO: I mean will they be talking about the U.N. resolution?
KING: They certainly will be. And the White House is hoping to come away with strong words of support from the French president for what comes in the future. They know he opposed the war and is not going to bend on that. But a key point for the administration is to try to get a unanimous vote on the U.N. Security Council.
To do that, the White House says it has to take into account the questions of France and other nations. It already has added language in the resolution saying the occupation forces, including the U.S. troops, would leave Iraq no later than January 2006. That change already made to comply with French concerns. And the French government has said it wants to make even more changes to that language. And the president's not at the point where he will be directly negotiating language with the French president, but certainly he'll be listening to his concerns.
COSTELLO: John King, we're going to take a break.
We're going to break away, as we await the president and the pope to come out to hopefully make some public statement.
John King, thanks for sticking with us and bringing us these beautiful images and interesting information live from inside the Vatican.
DAYBREAK will return right after this.
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