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President Bush Beginning Three-Day European Trip in Italy; Another High-Profile Resignation at CIA

Aired June 04, 2004 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We will get started here. We're at CNN headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Daryn Kagan. We begin with the headlines.
President Bush is beginning his three-day European trip in Italy. That's where he'll meet with a strong ally, Prime Minister Silvio -- Silvio Berlusconi in a few hours. Earlier, Mr. Bush presented Pope John Paul II with America's highest civilian award and the pope had something to give the president, advice on Iraq. The pope strongly opposes the war there.

Another high profile resignation at the CIA; the agency's Deputy Director of Operations is leaving. James Pavitt has supervised all CIA covert operations for the last five years. Sources say Pavitt's resignation has nothing to do with CIA chief George Tenet quitting. Sources say that Pavitt made his decision a few weeks ago.

Relatives of those killed in the four hijacked 9/11 planes will learn more today about what their loved ones' final moments were actually like. The Justice Department is holding a briefing for family members, which will include -- excuse me, the playing of some recorded calls from the planes.

All is quiet in Beijing's Tiananmen Square on this the 15- anniversary of a deadly demonstration against the communist nation. The area is cordoned off and police are quick to crack down on any sign of protest. China government's censors have repeatedly blacked out CNN's coverage of the anniversary.

Thousands of police are on the streets of Rome today. They are there to prevent antiwar demonstrations from turning violent. President Bush started his day there by meeting with a leader who was strongly opposed to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

Our Dana Bash is covering the president's trip and she joins us from there.

Dana, good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn. And the president's goal, as he moves through Europe for the next few days, is to try to get war opponents to come in and help fix problems in Iraq, even if it's just a moral support or support through the U.N. And he got some help from that or with that goal from a very important person; and that is the pope. The president went to the Vatican and met with the pope. And the pope, of course, as you mentioned, was vocal in his opposition to military action in Iraq. But he did give a speech, which was slurred because of his ailing health.

But still, he issued what the Vatican watchers say was a rare live remark with the president by his side. And he said that he was concerned about the unrest in Ira. But he said the situation must now be normalized as quickly as possible, with the active participation of the international community, in particular, the United Nations. He said sovereignty must be restored to Iraq as soon as possible.

Now, as for the president, he did present the pope with the highest civilian honor. That is the Medal of Freedom. And his message, in a private meeting, was to be that he understood the pope was opposed to war in Iraq. However, he was going to say, according to aides in his private meeting, that it is important sometimes to advance the kind of human rights that the pope preaches around the world. In his public remarks, the president subtlety defended the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We will work for human liberty and human dignity, in order to spread peace and compassion. That we appreciate the strong symbol of freedom that you have stood for, and we recognize the power of freedom to change societies and to change the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And the pope did have some stern words for what he called, "recent deplorable events" that have come to light. He did not mention the Abu Ghraib prison abuses in Iraq specifically, but left it pretty clear that was what he was talking about. White House officials said the president was bracing for criticism from the pope about the abuses at Abu Ghraib. And they said that the president was expected in private to say to the pope that he promises it won't happen again, and those responsible would be brought to justice.

Now, the rest of the day for the president is -- and it did involve some commemoration of World War II important milestones. Today is the 60-anniversary of the liberation of Rome by Allied Forces. The president laid a wreath at a World War II memorial commemorating that. Later today, Daryn, he has dinner with the staunch ally in the war in Iraq. That is the Prime Minister of Italy Silvio Berlusconi -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And what about on the streets of Italy? What kind of protest do you think we'll see, Dana?

BASH: Well, Daryn, they were certainly bracing for some heavy protests, close to 10000. And even the prime minister yesterday made some public statements saying that he was worried that the protests would get quite dangerous. And you see a lot of police on the streets. But at this point, the protests seemed rather light, rather modest. There are apparently are more potentially coming in. But at this point, they were worried they would be quite strong, quite vocal and perhaps even quite dangerous. But so far, it's been quite light -- Daryn. KAGAN: Dana Bash joining us from Italy, thank you for that.

Back in the U.S., there is more fallout over the resignation of CIA chief George Tenet. You heard about that news breaking right here on this program this time yesterday.

Senator Richard Shelby, a frequent critic of the outgoing chief, is speaking about what he calls, "failures of intelligence on Tenet's watch." He appeared earlier on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." Senator Chuck Hagel hinted that Tenet's decision to step down had nothing to do with the accountability issues.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: He has presided over the CIA during -- probably the tumultuous, difficult times that we have seen in this country in a long time. So I don't think there is anymore to it than what director Tenet said yesterday.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I called for George Tenet to resign several months ago. That is not a new call for me. I did call for that. I think there's been a lack of accountability in the CIA. I regret it. I know him personally, but that's the nature of responsibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Deputy CIA director John McLaughlin will take over as acting chief when Tenet leaves next month.

Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi accuses George Tenet of linking him with the Iranian intelligence story. Chalabi said that, quote, "He provided erroneous information about weapons of mass destruction to President Bush, which caused the government much embarrassment at the United Nations and his own country. George Tenet was behind the charges against me that claimed that I gave intelligence information to Iran. I denied these charges and will deny them again," end of that quote.

So the big question of the CIA now is whether George Tenet's successor will have better success addressing American's intelligence needs.

CNN's Tom Foreman takes a look at the challenges facing the agency.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The still unfound weapons of mass destruction. The testing of nuclear weapons by Pakistan and India. The rise of Usama bin Laden and the way he has eluded capture. all are events that have raised the question should the CIA have been better informed? Peter Ernest is a 36-year veteran of the CIA and now head of the International Spy Museum.

PETER EARNEST, FMR. CIA OFFICER: The answer is simple, yes that's what an intelligence service capability is. It's the capability of perceiving threat, of identifying it, of analyzing it, of making policy makers aware of it. Clearly, we did not.

FOREMAN: Tenet, himself, made it clear he was concerned about spy capabilities, particularly in the Arab world.

(on camera): Although the CIA will not release specifics, under Tenet, more Arabic speaking officers were recruited; more cooperative agreements were struck with foreign intelligence services. (voice-over): But spying on governments, which the CIA was made for, and learning what small individual terrorist groups are planning are wildly different things.

ROWLAND KESSLER, AUTHOR, "INSIDE THE CIA": The really hard thing is how do you get the information in the first place? How do you convince someone to rat on someone, like bin Laden? That is so difficult and that just requires years of work, patience, money.

FOREMAN: Adding to the problem, according to some Arab Americans, is a basic cultural gap.

JAMES ZOGBY, ARAB AMERICAN INSTITUTE: We see Arabs as an objectified problem and see the culture as less than ours. We see them as more violent than we are.

FOREMAN (on camera): And you think that makes it hard to get intelligence?

ZOGBY: Very, very hard. I think very hard. It makes us very susceptible, very prone to bad intelligence.

FOREMAN (voice-over): And fixing that problem, by all accounts, could take a very long time.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Now to Iraq. There is a new development today aimed at ending the battles between U.S. forces and fighters that are loyal to the radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr.

Our Guy Raz joins us. He is using a videophone. He is near Najaf -- Guy.

GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, hello. After six weeks of intense fighting here in Najaf and neighboring Kufa, a potential breakthrough to end the fighting that's taken hundreds and hundreds of lives over the past six weeks, including two U.S. servicemen earlier this week.

Now earlier today, the governor of this province here in Najaf, Adnan al Zurufi announced that he would be sending in Iraqi police to the towns of Najaf and Kufa to begin patrolling the holy sites in those cities. He's also called on the militia, loyal to Muqtada al Sadr, to immediately begin withdrawing from the centers of those town. Now, Daryn, you'll remember last week, was there a truce proposal that was floated by Muqtada al Sadr. He had called on Iraqi police to come into the towns and patrol the towns, and then he would disband his militia. It looks as if it will begin happening this evening. U.S. forces here say they are particularly enthusiastic about this plan. And they believe it can bring about an end to the fighting here in southern Iraq -- Daryn.

KAGAN: But Guy, is there a question over just how much al Sadr, how much control he has over these gunmen, if they'll listen to him that they would not acknowledge a cease-fire that was agreed to before?

RAZ: Well, it's a question that many military officials have asked. On the one hand, Muqtada al Sadr may not have control over these forces. But at the same time, Daryn, he's never disassociated himself from these fighters who have been launching attacks on U.S. forces in Kufa. Most of the fighting over the past six weeks took place in Najaf, and only recently shifted to Kufa.

But at the same time, U.S. forces say they are quite optimistic about this plan because the difference now is that Iraqi police will be involved. Iraqis will be involved patrolling the center of these cities, and possibly freeing up U.S. forces from having to do that work -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Guy Raz near Najaf, thank you for that report.

Coming up on CNN LIVE TODAY, a look back at Normandy. The largest military invasion in history. And the day that the allies turned the tide against Germany in World War II.

Later, sometimes the pressure can be overwhelming. The showdown at the National Spelling Bee. What happened to this young man and who is the winner?

And your preview of "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban." Will fans be disappointed or impressed with the latest installation? We'll talk with Mr. Moviefone.

This is CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: The secretary of defense visits Asia as Democrats push for changes in the intelligence community. A live report at the Pentagon is coming up.

And more accusations of prisoner abuse in Iraq, as report of more court-martials emerge.

This is CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Sixty years have passed since D-Day, the largest and most complex wartime operation ever to be undertaken ever. The overall plan was plain enough, but everyone who survived the Invasion of Normandy experienced it differently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALTER CONKRITE, WORLD WAR II CORRESPONDENT: The legacy of D-Day must be remembered as a turning point of the worst war in history. The most costly war in lives in history. But I prefer really, in a sense, that it be remembered with the sacrifices it took to win it.

JOHN S.D. EISENHOWER, SON OF DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER: My dad paced the floor by himself. Real Hollywood, real dramatic. And Dad said, "OK, we'll go." And he said, the second after that, the room was empty.

GEN. DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER, SUPREME ALLIED CMDR. (voice-over): Soldiers, sailors and airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force, you are about to embark on the great crusade towards which we have striven many months. The eyes of the world are upon you.

DICK WINTERS, 101-AIRBORNE DIVISION: And as you look down, it took your breath. You were looking at a sight no man has seen before or since. You were looking at about 7,000 ships, about 4,000 landing craft, over 250 battleships.

MARVIN PERRET, U.S. COAST GUARD: You see the machine gun bullets hitting the water and you see the troops, like leaving our boats and wading in toward shore. And every now and then, you'd see one of them fall.

HAL BAUMGARTEN, 29-INFANTRY DIVISION: The boat on our left blew up. We were covered with metal, and body parts, and blood. When our ramp went down for us to exit of the little boat, it was a signal for almost every machine gun on that beach to open up on the exit to our ship.

LEN "BUD" LOMELL, 2-RANGER BATTALION: The Germans didn't believe there was anybody so stupid that would try to climb a hundred foot cliff straight up under fire. And we got up to the top; fortunately, the Germans that were there, then to our horror and anger, discovered none of the guns were theirs.

MARTIN MORGAN, NATIONAL D-DAY MUSEUM: Eisenhower had no Plan B. The invasion across the English Channel had to succeed. It was the only chance we were going to have.

D. D. EISENHOWER: Let us all beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Well, it seems easy now to assume that D-Day would be a success. But in reality, it was a high-risk gamble that could have easily failed.

As we approach the 60-anniversary of the event, historian Ronald Spector of George Washington University has some thoughts about that.

Professor, good morning and thanks for being with us.

RONALD SPECTOR, HISTORIAN, GEO. WASH. UNIV.: Good morning.

KAGAN: I think as I read over some of the history of D-Day, what strikes me the most are some of the numbers involved. And not just your number of troops because that's been stressed so many times, but that this didn't take place until five years into World War II.

SPECTOR: Well, it took that long because of the enormous undertaking that was involved. For instance, when it was decided that -- to broaden the beachhead to five beaches instead of three beaches, that meant another two months worth of production of landing craft. And then in the larger picture, it was the reluctance of the British to undertake this very risky operation that they thought might well fail or ended a stalemate. That also delayed the final decision to go with the invasion of the northwest Europe.

KAGAN: And so the key there not just being timed, but patience. I can't help but think, especially watching what has happened over the last year in the world, with the media watching, the difference, what it would have been if the media had been able to watch what had taken place. There is no way there would have been patience for something like that to develop.

SPECTOR: Well, actually, the public was not clued in on the secret talks between the British and American staffs. But the American staffs and the American strategists and planners were very, very impatient with the various delays in the invasion of northern Europe. They wanted to go right away; they even had a plan. The Americans had a plan to -- for kind of an emergency landing in 1942. And certainly they felt '43 should be the latest date.

KAGAN: And yet, if you think about if reporters and video equipment had been imbedded with these troops, or if there had been the internet, or retired generals on cable channels criticizing these plans and the wait, I just don't think that there would have been the same type of environment to let something develop.

SPECTOR: Well, everything in World War II, the press was -- excuse me. The media was very closely controlled. All their dispatches had to go through the military, all of the pictures had to be cleared and so on. So it was a totally different media environment than in the 1990s.

KAGAN: Yes, totally different time.

What do you think, overall, if there -- and of course, it is so complex when you spend a lifetime studying this. But if there was one key to the allied victory on D-Day, what do you think it was?

SPECTOR: I think it was the allied success at achieving surprise and they put a lot of effort into this. They had to achieve surprise because, basically, they were sending troops to attack positions, where the enemy had a greater number of defenders than we had attackers.

So it was necessary to try to persuade the Germans that the invasion was going to come at some other place. And the place that they tried to convince the Germans about was the Pas de Calais, the closest part of France to England. So that seemed to be logical, a logical place for landing. And they did -- made a tremendous effort to convince the Germans that that's where the landing was going to take place.

Since they were reading the German codes, they had been able to round up all of the German spies in England. And they had them sending misleading and false reports back to Germany to convince the Germans that the invasion was going to take place at the Pas de Calais.

KAGAN: Just real quickly, with everything you've studied over the years and everything you've learned, what is left for to you learn from D-Day? What would you still like to know more about?

SPECTOR: Well, I'm in addition to being a military historian; I'm sort of a social historian. So I'm very excited about the idea of having large numbers of veterans deposit their memoirs and their oral recollections at the Library of Congress. And I think, as this project goes on, we'll have a much, much larger sample of the experience of ordinary soldiers than we've had for almost any war in the past.

KAGAN: Well, good luck with that project. It is important work, indeed. Historian Ronald Spector of George Washington University, thank you for your time today, sir.

SPECTOR: Thank you.

KAGAN: Be sure to watch CNN special D-Day 60-anniversary coverage on Sunday. "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" will present "D-Day, a Call to Courage." It airs 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific.

CNN LIVE TODAY will be back after this break.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired June 4, 2004 - 10:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We will get started here. We're at CNN headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Daryn Kagan. We begin with the headlines.
President Bush is beginning his three-day European trip in Italy. That's where he'll meet with a strong ally, Prime Minister Silvio -- Silvio Berlusconi in a few hours. Earlier, Mr. Bush presented Pope John Paul II with America's highest civilian award and the pope had something to give the president, advice on Iraq. The pope strongly opposes the war there.

Another high profile resignation at the CIA; the agency's Deputy Director of Operations is leaving. James Pavitt has supervised all CIA covert operations for the last five years. Sources say Pavitt's resignation has nothing to do with CIA chief George Tenet quitting. Sources say that Pavitt made his decision a few weeks ago.

Relatives of those killed in the four hijacked 9/11 planes will learn more today about what their loved ones' final moments were actually like. The Justice Department is holding a briefing for family members, which will include -- excuse me, the playing of some recorded calls from the planes.

All is quiet in Beijing's Tiananmen Square on this the 15- anniversary of a deadly demonstration against the communist nation. The area is cordoned off and police are quick to crack down on any sign of protest. China government's censors have repeatedly blacked out CNN's coverage of the anniversary.

Thousands of police are on the streets of Rome today. They are there to prevent antiwar demonstrations from turning violent. President Bush started his day there by meeting with a leader who was strongly opposed to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

Our Dana Bash is covering the president's trip and she joins us from there.

Dana, good morning.

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn. And the president's goal, as he moves through Europe for the next few days, is to try to get war opponents to come in and help fix problems in Iraq, even if it's just a moral support or support through the U.N. And he got some help from that or with that goal from a very important person; and that is the pope. The president went to the Vatican and met with the pope. And the pope, of course, as you mentioned, was vocal in his opposition to military action in Iraq. But he did give a speech, which was slurred because of his ailing health.

But still, he issued what the Vatican watchers say was a rare live remark with the president by his side. And he said that he was concerned about the unrest in Ira. But he said the situation must now be normalized as quickly as possible, with the active participation of the international community, in particular, the United Nations. He said sovereignty must be restored to Iraq as soon as possible.

Now, as for the president, he did present the pope with the highest civilian honor. That is the Medal of Freedom. And his message, in a private meeting, was to be that he understood the pope was opposed to war in Iraq. However, he was going to say, according to aides in his private meeting, that it is important sometimes to advance the kind of human rights that the pope preaches around the world. In his public remarks, the president subtlety defended the war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We will work for human liberty and human dignity, in order to spread peace and compassion. That we appreciate the strong symbol of freedom that you have stood for, and we recognize the power of freedom to change societies and to change the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BASH: And the pope did have some stern words for what he called, "recent deplorable events" that have come to light. He did not mention the Abu Ghraib prison abuses in Iraq specifically, but left it pretty clear that was what he was talking about. White House officials said the president was bracing for criticism from the pope about the abuses at Abu Ghraib. And they said that the president was expected in private to say to the pope that he promises it won't happen again, and those responsible would be brought to justice.

Now, the rest of the day for the president is -- and it did involve some commemoration of World War II important milestones. Today is the 60-anniversary of the liberation of Rome by Allied Forces. The president laid a wreath at a World War II memorial commemorating that. Later today, Daryn, he has dinner with the staunch ally in the war in Iraq. That is the Prime Minister of Italy Silvio Berlusconi -- Daryn.

KAGAN: And what about on the streets of Italy? What kind of protest do you think we'll see, Dana?

BASH: Well, Daryn, they were certainly bracing for some heavy protests, close to 10000. And even the prime minister yesterday made some public statements saying that he was worried that the protests would get quite dangerous. And you see a lot of police on the streets. But at this point, the protests seemed rather light, rather modest. There are apparently are more potentially coming in. But at this point, they were worried they would be quite strong, quite vocal and perhaps even quite dangerous. But so far, it's been quite light -- Daryn. KAGAN: Dana Bash joining us from Italy, thank you for that.

Back in the U.S., there is more fallout over the resignation of CIA chief George Tenet. You heard about that news breaking right here on this program this time yesterday.

Senator Richard Shelby, a frequent critic of the outgoing chief, is speaking about what he calls, "failures of intelligence on Tenet's watch." He appeared earlier on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING." Senator Chuck Hagel hinted that Tenet's decision to step down had nothing to do with the accountability issues.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: He has presided over the CIA during -- probably the tumultuous, difficult times that we have seen in this country in a long time. So I don't think there is anymore to it than what director Tenet said yesterday.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I called for George Tenet to resign several months ago. That is not a new call for me. I did call for that. I think there's been a lack of accountability in the CIA. I regret it. I know him personally, but that's the nature of responsibility.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Deputy CIA director John McLaughlin will take over as acting chief when Tenet leaves next month.

Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi accuses George Tenet of linking him with the Iranian intelligence story. Chalabi said that, quote, "He provided erroneous information about weapons of mass destruction to President Bush, which caused the government much embarrassment at the United Nations and his own country. George Tenet was behind the charges against me that claimed that I gave intelligence information to Iran. I denied these charges and will deny them again," end of that quote.

So the big question of the CIA now is whether George Tenet's successor will have better success addressing American's intelligence needs.

CNN's Tom Foreman takes a look at the challenges facing the agency.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The still unfound weapons of mass destruction. The testing of nuclear weapons by Pakistan and India. The rise of Usama bin Laden and the way he has eluded capture. all are events that have raised the question should the CIA have been better informed? Peter Ernest is a 36-year veteran of the CIA and now head of the International Spy Museum.

PETER EARNEST, FMR. CIA OFFICER: The answer is simple, yes that's what an intelligence service capability is. It's the capability of perceiving threat, of identifying it, of analyzing it, of making policy makers aware of it. Clearly, we did not.

FOREMAN: Tenet, himself, made it clear he was concerned about spy capabilities, particularly in the Arab world.

(on camera): Although the CIA will not release specifics, under Tenet, more Arabic speaking officers were recruited; more cooperative agreements were struck with foreign intelligence services. (voice-over): But spying on governments, which the CIA was made for, and learning what small individual terrorist groups are planning are wildly different things.

ROWLAND KESSLER, AUTHOR, "INSIDE THE CIA": The really hard thing is how do you get the information in the first place? How do you convince someone to rat on someone, like bin Laden? That is so difficult and that just requires years of work, patience, money.

FOREMAN: Adding to the problem, according to some Arab Americans, is a basic cultural gap.

JAMES ZOGBY, ARAB AMERICAN INSTITUTE: We see Arabs as an objectified problem and see the culture as less than ours. We see them as more violent than we are.

FOREMAN (on camera): And you think that makes it hard to get intelligence?

ZOGBY: Very, very hard. I think very hard. It makes us very susceptible, very prone to bad intelligence.

FOREMAN (voice-over): And fixing that problem, by all accounts, could take a very long time.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: Now to Iraq. There is a new development today aimed at ending the battles between U.S. forces and fighters that are loyal to the radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr.

Our Guy Raz joins us. He is using a videophone. He is near Najaf -- Guy.

GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, hello. After six weeks of intense fighting here in Najaf and neighboring Kufa, a potential breakthrough to end the fighting that's taken hundreds and hundreds of lives over the past six weeks, including two U.S. servicemen earlier this week.

Now earlier today, the governor of this province here in Najaf, Adnan al Zurufi announced that he would be sending in Iraqi police to the towns of Najaf and Kufa to begin patrolling the holy sites in those cities. He's also called on the militia, loyal to Muqtada al Sadr, to immediately begin withdrawing from the centers of those town. Now, Daryn, you'll remember last week, was there a truce proposal that was floated by Muqtada al Sadr. He had called on Iraqi police to come into the towns and patrol the towns, and then he would disband his militia. It looks as if it will begin happening this evening. U.S. forces here say they are particularly enthusiastic about this plan. And they believe it can bring about an end to the fighting here in southern Iraq -- Daryn.

KAGAN: But Guy, is there a question over just how much al Sadr, how much control he has over these gunmen, if they'll listen to him that they would not acknowledge a cease-fire that was agreed to before?

RAZ: Well, it's a question that many military officials have asked. On the one hand, Muqtada al Sadr may not have control over these forces. But at the same time, Daryn, he's never disassociated himself from these fighters who have been launching attacks on U.S. forces in Kufa. Most of the fighting over the past six weeks took place in Najaf, and only recently shifted to Kufa.

But at the same time, U.S. forces say they are quite optimistic about this plan because the difference now is that Iraqi police will be involved. Iraqis will be involved patrolling the center of these cities, and possibly freeing up U.S. forces from having to do that work -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Guy Raz near Najaf, thank you for that report.

Coming up on CNN LIVE TODAY, a look back at Normandy. The largest military invasion in history. And the day that the allies turned the tide against Germany in World War II.

Later, sometimes the pressure can be overwhelming. The showdown at the National Spelling Bee. What happened to this young man and who is the winner?

And your preview of "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban." Will fans be disappointed or impressed with the latest installation? We'll talk with Mr. Moviefone.

This is CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: The secretary of defense visits Asia as Democrats push for changes in the intelligence community. A live report at the Pentagon is coming up.

And more accusations of prisoner abuse in Iraq, as report of more court-martials emerge.

This is CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Sixty years have passed since D-Day, the largest and most complex wartime operation ever to be undertaken ever. The overall plan was plain enough, but everyone who survived the Invasion of Normandy experienced it differently.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALTER CONKRITE, WORLD WAR II CORRESPONDENT: The legacy of D-Day must be remembered as a turning point of the worst war in history. The most costly war in lives in history. But I prefer really, in a sense, that it be remembered with the sacrifices it took to win it.

JOHN S.D. EISENHOWER, SON OF DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER: My dad paced the floor by himself. Real Hollywood, real dramatic. And Dad said, "OK, we'll go." And he said, the second after that, the room was empty.

GEN. DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER, SUPREME ALLIED CMDR. (voice-over): Soldiers, sailors and airmen of the Allied Expeditionary Force, you are about to embark on the great crusade towards which we have striven many months. The eyes of the world are upon you.

DICK WINTERS, 101-AIRBORNE DIVISION: And as you look down, it took your breath. You were looking at a sight no man has seen before or since. You were looking at about 7,000 ships, about 4,000 landing craft, over 250 battleships.

MARVIN PERRET, U.S. COAST GUARD: You see the machine gun bullets hitting the water and you see the troops, like leaving our boats and wading in toward shore. And every now and then, you'd see one of them fall.

HAL BAUMGARTEN, 29-INFANTRY DIVISION: The boat on our left blew up. We were covered with metal, and body parts, and blood. When our ramp went down for us to exit of the little boat, it was a signal for almost every machine gun on that beach to open up on the exit to our ship.

LEN "BUD" LOMELL, 2-RANGER BATTALION: The Germans didn't believe there was anybody so stupid that would try to climb a hundred foot cliff straight up under fire. And we got up to the top; fortunately, the Germans that were there, then to our horror and anger, discovered none of the guns were theirs.

MARTIN MORGAN, NATIONAL D-DAY MUSEUM: Eisenhower had no Plan B. The invasion across the English Channel had to succeed. It was the only chance we were going to have.

D. D. EISENHOWER: Let us all beseech the blessing of Almighty God upon this great and noble undertaking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Well, it seems easy now to assume that D-Day would be a success. But in reality, it was a high-risk gamble that could have easily failed.

As we approach the 60-anniversary of the event, historian Ronald Spector of George Washington University has some thoughts about that.

Professor, good morning and thanks for being with us.

RONALD SPECTOR, HISTORIAN, GEO. WASH. UNIV.: Good morning.

KAGAN: I think as I read over some of the history of D-Day, what strikes me the most are some of the numbers involved. And not just your number of troops because that's been stressed so many times, but that this didn't take place until five years into World War II.

SPECTOR: Well, it took that long because of the enormous undertaking that was involved. For instance, when it was decided that -- to broaden the beachhead to five beaches instead of three beaches, that meant another two months worth of production of landing craft. And then in the larger picture, it was the reluctance of the British to undertake this very risky operation that they thought might well fail or ended a stalemate. That also delayed the final decision to go with the invasion of the northwest Europe.

KAGAN: And so the key there not just being timed, but patience. I can't help but think, especially watching what has happened over the last year in the world, with the media watching, the difference, what it would have been if the media had been able to watch what had taken place. There is no way there would have been patience for something like that to develop.

SPECTOR: Well, actually, the public was not clued in on the secret talks between the British and American staffs. But the American staffs and the American strategists and planners were very, very impatient with the various delays in the invasion of northern Europe. They wanted to go right away; they even had a plan. The Americans had a plan to -- for kind of an emergency landing in 1942. And certainly they felt '43 should be the latest date.

KAGAN: And yet, if you think about if reporters and video equipment had been imbedded with these troops, or if there had been the internet, or retired generals on cable channels criticizing these plans and the wait, I just don't think that there would have been the same type of environment to let something develop.

SPECTOR: Well, everything in World War II, the press was -- excuse me. The media was very closely controlled. All their dispatches had to go through the military, all of the pictures had to be cleared and so on. So it was a totally different media environment than in the 1990s.

KAGAN: Yes, totally different time.

What do you think, overall, if there -- and of course, it is so complex when you spend a lifetime studying this. But if there was one key to the allied victory on D-Day, what do you think it was?

SPECTOR: I think it was the allied success at achieving surprise and they put a lot of effort into this. They had to achieve surprise because, basically, they were sending troops to attack positions, where the enemy had a greater number of defenders than we had attackers.

So it was necessary to try to persuade the Germans that the invasion was going to come at some other place. And the place that they tried to convince the Germans about was the Pas de Calais, the closest part of France to England. So that seemed to be logical, a logical place for landing. And they did -- made a tremendous effort to convince the Germans that that's where the landing was going to take place.

Since they were reading the German codes, they had been able to round up all of the German spies in England. And they had them sending misleading and false reports back to Germany to convince the Germans that the invasion was going to take place at the Pas de Calais.

KAGAN: Just real quickly, with everything you've studied over the years and everything you've learned, what is left for to you learn from D-Day? What would you still like to know more about?

SPECTOR: Well, I'm in addition to being a military historian; I'm sort of a social historian. So I'm very excited about the idea of having large numbers of veterans deposit their memoirs and their oral recollections at the Library of Congress. And I think, as this project goes on, we'll have a much, much larger sample of the experience of ordinary soldiers than we've had for almost any war in the past.

KAGAN: Well, good luck with that project. It is important work, indeed. Historian Ronald Spector of George Washington University, thank you for your time today, sir.

SPECTOR: Thank you.

KAGAN: Be sure to watch CNN special D-Day 60-anniversary coverage on Sunday. "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" will present "D-Day, a Call to Courage." It airs 7:00 p.m. Eastern, 4:00 Pacific.

CNN LIVE TODAY will be back after this break.

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