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CNN Wolf Blitzer Reports
Interview with Senator Bill Frist, Attorney General John Ashcroft faces Senate judiciary committee, Interview with former CIA Director Robert Gates, President Bush hosts G-8 in Sea Island, Georgia, Transit of Venus
Aired June 08, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Dress rehearsal. The nation's capital prepares for a president's final visit.
Showdown. Nancy Reagan wants to find out if stem cells can cure Alzheimer's. Should President Bush ease his restrictions on research? I'll ask Senate leader and surgeon Bill Frist.
Torture memo. Did the government give the go-ahead for the abuse of terror suspects?
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D-MA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: This is what directly results.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: That is false, it is an inappropriate conclusion.
BLITZER: Reagan's record. Did he let terrorists off the hook? I'll speak with former CIA Director Robert Gates.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, June 8, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: We begin at the United Nations where late-breaking developments are raising hopes for the handover of power in Iraq even as new car bombings kill at least ten Iraqis and the United States soldier, bloody reminders that instability still reigns weekend before the planned transfer of power.
After a lot of wrangling the Security Council only a few moments ago has just unanimously endorsed Iraq's new government. The resolution welcomes a U.S.-led multinational force. Two strong opponents of the war, France and Germany agreed to a last-minute compromise over control of that force.
Let's go live to our senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth. He's covering these developments -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, agreement on Iraq at the Security Council. That's something you don't hear very often in recent times. But as you said, a short time ago it was a 15 to nothing vote here in New York on Iraq. The members of the Security Council putting their hands in the air in full agreement.
You're looking live at Algeria's ambassador explaining his vote. But a short time before that, it was all 15 members voting in favor of this resolution that the U.S. and Britain had proposed.
Here's the vote. It was a lot of debate for weeks here in New York City to get to this point. The resolution giving a timetable for the transition now from the occupying force after June 30 to an interim Iraqi government backed by multinational force for security.
U.S. ambassador designate to Iraq John Negroponte, still here in New York, on the reason for this resolution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: This resolution makes clear that Iraq's sovereignty will be undiluted and that the government of Iraq will have the sovereign authority to request and to decline assistance, including in the security sector. The government of Iraq will have the final say on the presence of the multinational force.
The resolution also addresses the current security reality and affirms the security structures and mechanisms warranted at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: German Ambassador Pleuger called the resolution an opportunity for Iraq and the U.N. Security Council here.
It's not known whether this resolution, though, will produce support from other countries for troops for Iraq. The Russian charge d'affair here said there are not many people who want to be volunteers right now for Iraq. There are 120,000 troops, that should be enough.
Countries, Wolf, such as China and Germany here today saying they promised financial aid instead. Back to you.
BLITZER: Richard Roth, thanks very much. And we expect to be hearing from Russian President Putin shortly. He's with President Bush down in Georgia. Once they speak, we'll go there. Richard Roth, thanks very much.
We want to show you videotape that we just received only a few minutes ago. The Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry over at Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California paying his respects to the late president. Kerry had already planned to be in California today for his daughter's graduation from film school.
He called Reagan, and I'm quoting now, "a very likable guy." John Kerry, take a look at this, paying his last respects to the 40th president of the United States. Like so many others, tens of thousands of others, he has come to the Reagan Library to say thank you to the 40th president of the United States. John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate.
It started as a steady stream, now a sea of mourners flooding the Reagan Library to view the late president's casket. And the outpouring of respect will soon move from California to here, Washington, D.C., the nation's capital, where preparations are being made for a state funeral.
We're covering both ends of the story with CNN's Ted Rowlands. he's in Moorpark, California. And CNN congressional correspondent Ed Henry on Capitol Hill. Let's begin with Ted who's near the Reagan Library -- Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the turnout here from the public has far exceeded the family's expectations. It's now estimated that almost 60,000 people have come through here to pay their respects to President Reagan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS (voice-over): They're coming by the tens of thousands, making the somber two-minute loop around Ronald Reagan's flag-draped coffin. They are a cross section of the country dressed in everything from Sunday best to shorts and t-shirts, drawn together by respect for the nation's 40th president.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a lot of that people loved him. And I feel really honored, honored, to be here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to say a prayer for the president and acknowledge how much of a nice man he was and how much he's done for our country.
ROWLANDS: They came throughout the night. So many that traffic ground to a halt in the middle of the night on a nearby freeway named for the late president.
By dawn, 40,000 people had made the pilgrimage with thousands more waiting up to seven hours for their turn to spend a few minutes in quiet contemplation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a privilege to be here. And the waiting in line was a privilege also. And turning around and seeing all of the -- my fellow citizens it was really heartening to see so many people who obviously fell the same thing that I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As soon as I saw the flag-draped coffin, the tears began to come to my eyes. It was moving to see the young gentlemen standing there, so still, not moving.
ROWLANDS: A spokesman for the Reagan families says overwhelming demand was unexpected. In response, the viewing is being extended it by four hours to 10:00 local time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: And folks that want to view the president's remains must be here within the hour. They are cutting it off at 3:00. Anybody here after that will not be ensured the opportunity to pay their respects. But if they're here before 3:00, they will have an opportunity to do so.
The Reagans have issued a statement saying they are sorry that some people will not be included in this process. The route, however from Point Mugu to the Presidential Library on Friday evening will be widely published so people are encouraged to come out and view the president as he makes his final journey on Friday evening before the burial back to Simi Valley -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ted, there was one moving moment. There have been so many moments, God knows, at the library. But some Boy Scouts were there. I want to show our viewers what happened when they showed up. Look at this. They all stood at attention and then they began to salute the former president.
ROWLANDS: That by far was the single most moving moment in terms of an image that has come out of here because all of those youngsters took up the entire line on the side of the casket and saluted the former commander in chief.
As you mentioned, there have been so many moving stories and moving moments. But that one most enduring because of the visual impact of all of the youngsters saluting the former president.
BLITZER: CNN's Ted Rowlands on the scene for us. Ted, thanks very much.
Let's come to Washington, D.C. Right now preparations being made for a state funeral befitting a former commander in chief while taking into account the reality, potential at least, of terrorism. Our congressional correspondent Ed Henry is on over on en Capitol Hill where the former president will lie in state -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, preparations are just starting to kick into high gear as security tightens and anticipation builds for this momentous event.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): Precision is key to such an historic occasion, just the tenth state funeral for an American president in history.
Before the drama plays out before millions of people around the world, military personnel practiced the somber duty of loading the casket onto a horse-drawn caisson.
The procession will start at 6:00 p.m. with the caisson starting near the White House for its journey to the Capitol. Six horses will tug the flag-draped coffin. A seventh horse will trail the caisson, wearing an empty saddle with a pair of Reagan's own boots reversed in the stirrups. Planners say this indicates that the warrior will never ride again. The dress rehearsal also included the testing of the 21-gun salute. Once the casket reaches the west front of the Capitol, it will be walked up the grand entrance where Mr. Reagan was sworn into office. The casket will then be led up this set of stairs, leading into the rotunda where workers are preparing for an estimated 150,000 people to file past the casket from Wednesday evening through Friday morning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Wolf, those preparations are really going to pick up and grow more dramatic in just about an hour when we hear the roar of jet planes, military planes, flying over the National Mall getting ready, preparations for the 21-jet flyover that will include a missing man maneuver where one jet will shoot up and break away from the rest of the pack. Again, another dramatic symbol that we will see in just about an hour -- Wolf?
BLITZER: And the security will be as tight as it would be at a presidential inauguration, is that what Capitol Hill police are telling you?
HENRY: Oh, absolutely. A memo went out to all senators saying that this will be classified as a national security special event. As you said, like an inaugural, like a political convention. Officers who were going to take a day off can't do that this week. You're going to have the Secret Service involved, the FBI, the department of homeland security, they're going to leave no stone unturned. Police officials here say they will be ready and they think they actually had a good dress rehearsal with the recent opening at the World War II memorial that enabled them to test everything out with tens of thousands of people and also President Bush and plenty of other dignitaries.
BLITZER: CNN's Ed Henry will be busy over the next several hours and days. Thanks very much. To our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our web question of the day is this, "should Ronald Reagan's image replace Alexander Hamilton's on the $10 bill?" You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results for you later in this broadcast.
In a moment, the cause that has Nancy Reagan and the White House on opposing sides. Now support swelling behind the former first lady. Will President Bush compromise when it comes to stem cell research? I'll ask the Senate majority leader Bill Frist. He's my guest. He's standing by. He'll join me next.
Plus this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I condemn torture. I think it...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It does not justify.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it's productive. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER:: Lecturing the attorney general of the United States when it comes to torture. A powerful exchange earlier today here in Washington. We'll share it with you.
And happening now. We're waiting to hear directly from President Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin. Their comments expected this hour from the summit at Sea Island, Georgia. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Ronald Reagan's death is highlighting a rift in the Republican party over the issue of embryonic stem cell research which could lead to new treatments for Alzheimer's and other diseases and conditions. Our congressional correspondent Joe Johns joining us like with more on that -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, as you said, this is a very tough issue that has been getting attention for years. But now with the death of President Reagan, it's getting even more attention.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Nancy Reagan is re-energizing the debate over expanding embryonic stem cell research. 58 senators have joined her call to free up more stem cell lines for research into cures for conditions such as Alzheimer's.
NANCY REAGAN, FMR. FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: We have lost so much time already and I just really can't bear to lose anymore.
JOHNS: In 2001, the White House set strict limits on stem cell research because it calls for the destruction of human embryos. Research advocates say those embryos would be thrown away anyway and want the White House to soften its position. But leading conservatives in Congress say they will not relent.
SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R), PENNSYLVANIA: If he would authorize or any future administration would authorize the deliberate killing of a human being for the purposes of research, they would not have my support.
JOHNS: Not all conservatives agree. Abortion opponent Orrin Hatch of Utah and 13 other Republican senators have signed on in support of expanded research.
SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: There's no question it's a human cell but it doesn't have a chance of becoming a human being unless it's implanted in a womb.
JOHNS: More than 200 House members have also signed a letter supporting wider research. While the death of Ronald Reagan has clearly put the issue in the spotlight, advocates are wary about using his death to push the agenda. One senior congressional aide asked, what point does it become tacky?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: So will the president compromise? Tonight the White House says it still wants to explore the promise of stem cell research but not by crossing what it calls a fundamental moral line -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Joe Johns at Capitol Hill, thanks very much.
For more on the controversy and other issues we're joined now by doctor and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist. He's also on Capitol Hill.
Is there some wiggle room here now, Senator Frist, in which maybe the administration can soften its opposition?
FRIST: Wolf, I think stem cell research, first of all, everybody agrees, I think everybody agrees it does offer promise -- very early. There's adult stem cell, there is embryonic stem cell. And in truth the Bush administration has markedly increased funding for stem cell research. Most of it has been adult stem cell.
The focus of today, and with Nancy Reagan and the cut that you just had earlier, is: How much more should we open the door to embryonic stem cell research? And, as you can tell, again, from the video that you just did, it really depends on how much moral significance people put on that human embryo.
It's been three years now since the Bush policy was put forward. The number of cell lines hasn't been as many as anticipated from that initial policy. So I do think that in the coming months probably after the elections, there will be a review, including hearings and oversight, to see if the intended policy has accomplished its objectives.
BLITZER: Well, you're the leader, not only the leader of the Senate, but you're also a physician, a surgeon. Would you be open to going along with what Senator Orrin Hatch is suggesting?
FRIST: I don't know exactly what Orrin has suggested. But I do think it is time for a re-examination of the policy put forward.
I do think stem cell research does offer real promise. Again, it's very early. And therefore, as majority leader, I will be leading in a direction of oversight, of review, see if the policy has worked or not worked.
And of course the moral significance is very important to me. To me, those embryos are life, they do have moral significance. And that has to be weighed in.
The real challenge is to have expansion of the research, appropriate expansion, but to have appropriate moral and ethical guidelines.
BLITZER: It looks like you're keeping an open mind, at least in the coming months, is that fair to say?
FRIST: Yes. And I think everybody will. Again, it's been three years since the policy was initiated. And I think we need to go back and examine whether or not the policy is accomplishing the goals, whether or not the ethical guidelines are being adhered to, and then making a determination of whether or not that door should be opened more or not. We have to be very careful. Again, I do give moral significance to that embryo.
BLITZER: All right. Senator Frist, you just came back from Iraq. You met with the new prime minister of Iraq, the incoming prime minister, Iyad Allawi. The Security Council, as you now know, has unanimously now passed this resolution supporting the June 30th transfer of power.
What's your bottom line eyewitness assessment? Is this going to work?
FRIST: Well, Wolf, the prime minister, who will be leading the country over there, I was very impressed with. I met with him two days ago in Baghdad. He is very direct. He is very bold. He told me that he is looking for that national unity. He very much believes in the coalition forces being a necessary condition for them to achieve democracy.
He told me democracy is his objective. It's not just representative government.
So I found him very engaging, very committed. The really smart thing that I heard him say is that we've got to fight the terrorists. Why? Not because the terrorists have been opposing the coalition forces, but because the terrorists are hurting the Iraqi people.
And now we have an Iraqi face saying that, not just Americans. Therefore, I left there very optimistic.
BLITZER: What about this new president? He doesn't seem to be as robustly pro-American as the prime minister, Ghazi al-Yawar.
FRIST: Well, you know, I haven't met him yet. And again, we haven't met very many of the leadership.
One of the other good points is the ministers, the 33 ministers are up and running now. A lot of people are worried about the transition date of June 30th. One of the good things that I found out is that ministers, a very diverse group, six women, two-thirds with Ph.D.s, the ministry, sort of cabinet, the people in charge of oil, education, defense are all up and running right now.
The president, I have not met. Nobody knows whether the president's going to be the figurehead, really the symbolic head of the country, and the prime minister the real operational leader. That's sort of the way it's being billed now. And that's why I was glad to see the prime minister.
BLITZER: How important was Ronald Reagan, as far as you are concerned?
FRIST: Very important. I'm a relatively young leader in the Republican Party now. And if it weren't for Ronald Reagan, with his commitment to smaller government and lower taxes and less regulation, we simply would not be the majority party today.
He really took those conservative principles, and on his shoulders we stand today as governing both the White House and the United States Senate and the House of Representatives. Without his commitment, his moral clarity, without his boldness, his courage, his comfort with who he was in articulating a vision, we simply would not be here today.
BLITZER: Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader in the U.S. Senate.
Thanks, Senator, very much for joining us.
FRIST: Great to be with you, Wolf.
BLITZER: We're standing by for word directly from the president of the United States and the president of Russia. We'll head over to Sea Island, Georgia, where Mr. Bush is meeting with Vladimir Putin. We'll get to that.
Plus this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what directly results when you have that kind of memoranda out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is false. It is inappropriate conclusion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Getting grilled when it comes to the issue of torture. Did someone in the U.S. government give the green light to U.S. forces to torture prisoners?
And after months of Mars in the headlines, why Venus is now stealing at least some of the spotlight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There were fireworks on Capitol Hill today when the Attorney General John Ashcroft faced tough questioning from a Senate committee investigating Iraqi prisoner abuse, among other issues. Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena joining us now live with details -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the first time that John Ashcroft has appeared before the Senate judiciary committee in more than a year and it happened to come on the same day that several newspaper headlines suggested legal guidance from the justice department led to abuses at Abu Ghraib and that dominated the discussion.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): Senators demanded to know if the justice department told the president it was legally OK to torture al Qaeda terrorists and whether the president, based on that advice, issued an order on interrogations that led to the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We know when we have these kinds of orders what happens. We get the stress test, we get the use of dogs, we get the forced nakedness that we've all seen.
JOHN ASHCROFT, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: First of all, let me completely reject the notion that anything that this president has done or the justice department has done has directly resulted in the kinds of atrocities which were cited. That is false.
ARENA: Justice department lawyers did contribute to a March 2003 report obtained by CNN which suggests interrogators have broad latitude to use pressure when questioning detainees.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Did your department issue a memorandum that would suggest that torture is allowed under certain circumstances as the press has reported?
ASHCROFT: The president has not directed or ordered any conduct that would violate the constitution of the United States.
ARENA: But Ashcroft refuse repeated Democratic demands to turn over memos or to tell senators what legal advice he gave the president. And the sparring got personal.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: There's a reason why we sign these treaties. To protect my son in the military. That's why we have these treaties. So when Americans are captured they are not tortured. That's the reason. In case anybody forgets it, that's the reason.
ASHCROFT: Well, as a person whose son is in the military now on active duty, and has been in the Gulf within the last several months, I'm aware of those considerations and I care about your son.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: Some senators even threatened the attorney general with contempt of Congress for not relaying what he told the president. Without citing executive privilege, they say, he has an obligation to answer all of their questions.
BLITZER: Senator Biden was pretty, pretty upset, wasn't he?
ARENA: He wasn't the only one. Senator Kennedy, Senator Leahy, very, very emotional dialogue.
BLITZER: Kelli Arena, thanks very much. Georgia's Sea Island, an unlikely crossroads for world leaders but that's where President Bush is right now as part of an economic summit. Other issues, though, big issues, sharing the stage. We'll have details.
Plus -- just weeks before the handover, two of Iraq's major cities are rocked again by violence. We'll tell you where and what happened.
And later, prayers for a president. We'll go back to California as a nation mourns for Ronald Reagan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
President Bush getting down to brass tacks with his international counterparts. We'll take you to the G-8 Summit, Sea Island, Georgia. We're waiting to hear from the president and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin. We'll get there soon.
First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
The Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California, is extending visiting hours until 10:00 p.m. local time, so that more people can pay their final respects to former President Ronald Reagan. An estimated 40,000 people mourners have filed past the casket as of this morning. The president's body will be flown to Washington, D.C., tomorrow.
Two months after they were kidnapped in Iraq, three Italian civilians have been rescued by coalition forces. The three men, they're shown here while they were still hostages, are said to be in good health. Coalition officials say rescue operations also freed a Polish hostage.
A car bomb exploded in Mosul, Iraq, as a convoy of provincial council members passed by. They were unhurt. Nine other people, though, died. Another car bomb in Baquba killed one U.S. soldier and at least one Iraqi.
President Bush is hosting world leaders on a small island off the coast of Georgia. The G-8 forum was designed to focus on economic issues. But that agenda is being overshadowed as the president tries to forge a consensus on a blueprint for the rebuilding of the new Iraq.
Our White House correspondent Dana Bash is joining us now live from Savannah with more -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the president is meeting with Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, at this hour. We're expect to hear from Mr. Bush about the political victory that he just received at the United Nations, a unanimous vote there on an Iraq resolution. And it's a victory not only for the president, but also for the British prime minister, Tony Blair, who, among many other leaders, has arrived at Sea Island for the G-8 summit. And it is something that the White House was hoping would happen at this time. It is certainly the way that they hoped to kick off this summit as part of the unofficial theme for the White House, which is mending fences with some of the allies who did not support the war.
In fact, the G-8, the eight countries that make up the G-8 were evenly divided over whether or not to support the war. Tony Blair, for his part, a short while ago said that this is an important symbol, that it's not just the United States and Great Britain now that are backing Iraq and the new government there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: For the Iraqis themselves, this means that they now realize they have a unified world community on their side helping them towards the stability and the democracy and the prosperity they want to see for themselves.
And I think for the terrorists and the fanatics, the former regime elements that are trying to stop this process of democracy, I think they now know that it isn't just the United States and the U.K. or indeed the multinational force. It's the whole of the United Nations and the world community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And, Wolf, as I mentioned, leaders are still arriving at Sea Island. Now we have the prime minister of Italy, Silvio Berlusconi, who is arriving at this hour. He is another person who has been a staunch ally of President Bush, has some troops in Iraq to help out the coalition there.
He is actually somebody who President Bush just visited several days ago in Rome. And they stood shoulder to shoulder to talk about moving forward. But this is something that the president is hoping to talk about later. And he got some positive words even from a foe of the war just earlier, Gerhard Schroeder, who said that he did think that this is an important way to move forward. This is exactly the kind of thing that the White House is hoping to hear from people like Gerhard Schroeder at the summit -- Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Dana Bash reporting from the summit -- Dana, thanks very much. We'll go back there once President Bush and Russian President Putin meet the news media.
We've heard high praise for President Reagan's legacy as president, but there is still debate over he did enough to combat terrorism. Coming up, I'll speak live with former CIA Director Robert Gates.
Plus, they continue to come out by the thousands, the tens of thousands, to pay their last respects for President Reagan. Later, we'll go back live to Simi Valley, California. We'll get to all of that.
First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Italian police have arrested a key suspect in the Madrid train bombings, an Egyptian said to have been planning further attacks. The March 11 bombings killed 190 people.
Gunned down. A U.S. citizen has been slain in Saudi Arabia. He worked for a company that trains and equips the Saudi National Guard.
Withdrawal plan. South Korea and the United States are discussing a U.S. plan to withdraw some troops from the Korean Peninsula. The Pentagon wants to redeploy 12,000 Americans, about one-third of the current total, forcing South Korea to take more responsibility for defending its own border.
Calling it quits. Two members of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's Cabinet have turned in their resignations to protest Mr. Sharon's plans to pull Israeli settlers out of Gaza. They represented the pro-settler National Religious Party. But a spokesman says the party will remain in Mr. Sharon's coalition, at least for now.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There's understandably been a lot of praise this week for the legacy of President Reagan.
But, in truth, in some areas at least, that legacy is somewhat mixed. Take terrorism, for example. The 9/11 Commission has heard from a number of witnesses who say President Reagan's failure to respond to the 1983 bombing that killed more than 200 United States Marines in Lebanon led at least in part to Osama bin Laden and others believing the United States was weak.
Our national security correspondent David Ensor has been looking into this -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, presidents have to make very difficult calls sometimes and this was clearly a difficult one for Mr. Reagan. But it's one that still resonates, that still creates, in the belief of some people at least, trouble for this country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): Before 9/11, the Beirut bombing of 1983 that killed 241 Marines was the most devastating terrorist attack on Americans. RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we were to leave Lebanon now, what message would that send to those who foment instability and terrorism?
ENSOR: Yet, within a few weeks, Mr. Reagan pulled the Marines out.
REAGAN: They're not going to see this as cutting and running.
ENSOR: Unfortunately, Osama bin Laden has made clear that is exactly how he and many others in the Middle East region saw it.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think the most important message from the Beirut bombing of '83 for bin Laden was that, if you turn enough body bags over to the United States, you'll actually change American foreign policy.
ENSOR: Reagan administration officials reject the criticism.
EDWIN MEESE, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: So it was not a matter of cutting and running. It was a matter of having accomplished the mission and where they would go next.
The other thing was, in terms of punishing those people responsible, it was never -- they had never been able to determine who it was who was responsible.
ENSOR: But in fact U.S. intelligence did know fairly soon, according to senior officials at the time and Robert Baer, then a CIA officer in Beirut. They knew that the Lebanese Hezbollah had carried out the bombing under orders from Iran and that it was organized by a man named Imad Mugniyah.
BERGEN: Imad Mugniyah, who is the mastermind of that bombing, remains at liberty 21 years later.
JOHN LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: We did not retaliate, even though we now know that there was an intercept directly of the Iranian government ordering the assassination of our Marines.
ENSOR: The Reagan administration's record on terrorism also includes negotiating with Iran, offering arms in exchange for hostages in Lebanon. But it includes, too, a forceful response to Libya when intelligence showed Moammar Gadhafi was behind an attack on U.S. soldiers at a German disco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: ... Mr. Reagan, 1983 was another era. Before 9/11, almost all terrorist incidents were treated by American presidents as matters for law enforcement, matters that did not require a military response -- Wolf.
BLITZER: David Ensor -- thanks, David, very much.
So did President Reagan send any mixed messages when it comes to terrorism?
Robert Gates was the No. 2 man over at the CIA during the Reagan administration. He later became the CIA director. He spent almost three decades as an intelligence professional over at the agency and on the National Security Council. He served six American presidents.
Robert Gates is joining us now live from Cleveland, Ohio. He's president of Texas A&M University.
Mr. Gates, thanks very much for joining us.
With hindsight, looking back, how much of a blunder was it not to retaliate for the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut?
ROBERT GATES, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: The problem that we had after the bombing of the Marine barracks was simply the fact that, while we did learn that it was Hezbollah, I can't tell you how many meetings we had in the White House looking at options for retaliating against Hezbollah. We also looked at options for retaliating against Iran.
People forget that that was still a very tough time in the Cold War. And one of the reasons the decision was ultimately made not to go after Iran was the concern that it would force the relatively new Islamic revolutionary government there into the hands or the arms of the Soviets.
So I think it wasn't a blunder. It was the absence of good targets to go after where there wouldn't be a huge amount of collateral damage, either political. Or, in the case of Hezbollah, many of their headquarters buildings and so on were located next to hospitals. We found the place where they practiced for their attack. But it was right next to a hospital.
And so the ability to do that really wasn't there. When the president did have the opportunity to take a clean shot, as was the case in Libya in 1986, he took it.
BLITZER: But you can understand the critics who are now saying, like John Lehman, for example, a member of the 9/11 Commission, who was then Navy secretary during the Reagan administration, that, at least with hindsight, you can understand why Hezbollah or al Qaeda or other terrorist groups might conclude that the United States was weak.
GATES: Well, I don't necessarily agree with that.
I think that the attack on Libya, the decision to send the troops into Granada, the decision to send the troops in the first place into Lebanon all indicated that the president was prepared to use U.S. military force when he thought it was appropriate.
BLITZER: In your sense, looking back on Ronald Reagan and the war on terrorism, a lot of criticism of Bill Clinton in the '90s for not responding, let's say, forcefully enough. But could Ronald Reagan in the '80s have done more?
GATES: Well, I think a lot was done. People forget that we dealt with the whole terrorist situation in the Middle East. We had a lot of hostages in the Middle East, including our station chief in Beirut. I think, when we had the opportunity to act, we did. The president was consistently putting pressure on CIA to do more. And it was under that pressure, quite frankly, that in 1986, early 1986, the first counterterrorism center was set up at CIA that actually brought in people from the FBI, the National Security Agency and other agencies to try and have an integrated U.S. approach to trying to deal with the terrorist threat.
BLITZER: You have an important article in today's "New York Times" on the op-ed page, which you say it's premature to start thinking in terms of some sort of intelligence czar, a new kind of leader for the CIA in the aftermath of George Tenet's decision to step down.
Why isn't it a good idea to have one director who could control the entire intelligence community?
GATES: That is a good idea. The question is whether you can actually get it done in the realities that exist in Washington, both in the Congress and in the Department of Defense.
More than 80 percent of the foreign intelligence dollars that are spent in the United States are spent by the Department of Defense. So the question is, how do you give the director of central intelligence or your top foreign intelligence person the authority to determine how those dollars are going to be spent and then the ability to hold people accountable in terms of whether they did it or not?
And the focus of my article was that a number of the proposals that have been put forward purport to give him that kind of authority, but I think, at the end of the day, after legislation is done and the compromises are made, we'll have a situation in which the head intelligence person is actually weaker than the director of central intelligence is today.
I think there are ways to strengthen the director and to give him that kind of an authority without upsetting the apple cart and undertaking a completely new kind of structure.
BLITZER: What's the single most important thing that you believe the CIA needs right now in order to better protect the American people from terrorists?
GATES: Well, I think it needs two things.
First, it needs to have its leader have the authority to be able to prioritize and deploy the resources available to all of U.S. intelligence, as necessary. And the second is, it needs predictability in terms of its resources.
The CIA's budget increase in the spring of 2002 was the first major increase they had received since 198. It takes five to 10 years to train a field officer, an analyst or even develop a technical collection system. And so it's really important that they have predictability in their resources. I think, if you give them those two things, it's very important.
And I would just add, there's been a lot of criticism of CIA. And I'd say that, in light of some of the failures, a good bit of that criticism is deserved. But I think it also is important, as we think about how to proceed that, knock wood, there hasn't been a major -- there hasn't been a successful terrorist attack in the United States in almost three years. I think the FBI and CIA ought to get a little credit for that.
I think that they've had more successes since September 11 than they're given credit for.
BLITZER: Well, let's hope it stays like that.
Robert Gates, the former CIA director, thanks for spending a few moments with us today. Appreciate it very much.
GATES: My PHILLIPS: easure.
BLITZER: An emotional gathering that could be mere prologue. Up next, we'll take you back to the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California, an incredible outpouring of respect, as the nation prepares for the late president's state funeral.
And space history in real time. You're living through a rare moment in the life of the planet. We'll tell you what we mean.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Mourners continuing to line up outside the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California, to pay their final respects.
Let's go back there. CNN's Ted Rowlands standing by in Moorpark, California -- Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, they are estimating that when visitation is over at 10:00 local here tonight, that more than 75,000 people will have come through to pay their respects to Ronald Reagan.
Two of the folks that have been standing in line here are Eric (ph) and his son Taylor (ph) from Southern California.
A lot of people have come from across the region here. You guys took the time out to stand in line. Taylor got the day off of school. Why did you come out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I remember vividly when John F. Kennedy was shot. And I was about his age and going down Constitution Avenue, and the same thing. You know, and President Reagan after today will be sent back to Washington. And I wanted him to, you know, come and see the same thing for history.
ROWLANDS: Taylor, are you excited to go through this process, besides getting out of school? What does it mean to you? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like just standing in line and waiting for the bus, because I like riding on buses.
ROWLANDS: All right, well, this is going to be a memory, I'm sure, that you will remember for the rest of your life, just two of the many thousands people that have taken the time out, Wolf, to come out here, make the drive, stand in line, to pay their final respects to Ronald Reagan.
Of course, this scene will play out as well on the East Coast starting tomorrow in Washington, D.C. -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And tens of thousands of people here in Washington, Ted, already getting ready to pay their respects when his body lies in state up on Capitol Hill.
Ted Rowlands reporting for us, thanks very much.
Our picture of the day has people rushing to look directly into the sun. We'll tell you why.
Also, the result of our "Web Question of the Day" when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Check out the results of our "Web Question of the Day." Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
Our picture of, the transit of Venus. It occurs when Venus passes between the Earth and the sun, casting a silhouette. Today marks the first time that has happened since 1882, when John Philip Sousa was so impressed, he wrote "The Transit of Venus March."
We leave you with that music.
("THE TRANSIT OF VENUS MARCH" PLAYS)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 8, 2004 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Dress rehearsal. The nation's capital prepares for a president's final visit.
Showdown. Nancy Reagan wants to find out if stem cells can cure Alzheimer's. Should President Bush ease his restrictions on research? I'll ask Senate leader and surgeon Bill Frist.
Torture memo. Did the government give the go-ahead for the abuse of terror suspects?
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D-MA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: This is what directly results.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: That is false, it is an inappropriate conclusion.
BLITZER: Reagan's record. Did he let terrorists off the hook? I'll speak with former CIA Director Robert Gates.
ANNOUNCER: This is WOLF BLITZER REPORTS for Tuesday, June 8, 2004.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: We begin at the United Nations where late-breaking developments are raising hopes for the handover of power in Iraq even as new car bombings kill at least ten Iraqis and the United States soldier, bloody reminders that instability still reigns weekend before the planned transfer of power.
After a lot of wrangling the Security Council only a few moments ago has just unanimously endorsed Iraq's new government. The resolution welcomes a U.S.-led multinational force. Two strong opponents of the war, France and Germany agreed to a last-minute compromise over control of that force.
Let's go live to our senior U.N. correspondent Richard Roth. He's covering these developments -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, agreement on Iraq at the Security Council. That's something you don't hear very often in recent times. But as you said, a short time ago it was a 15 to nothing vote here in New York on Iraq. The members of the Security Council putting their hands in the air in full agreement.
You're looking live at Algeria's ambassador explaining his vote. But a short time before that, it was all 15 members voting in favor of this resolution that the U.S. and Britain had proposed.
Here's the vote. It was a lot of debate for weeks here in New York City to get to this point. The resolution giving a timetable for the transition now from the occupying force after June 30 to an interim Iraqi government backed by multinational force for security.
U.S. ambassador designate to Iraq John Negroponte, still here in New York, on the reason for this resolution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: This resolution makes clear that Iraq's sovereignty will be undiluted and that the government of Iraq will have the sovereign authority to request and to decline assistance, including in the security sector. The government of Iraq will have the final say on the presence of the multinational force.
The resolution also addresses the current security reality and affirms the security structures and mechanisms warranted at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: German Ambassador Pleuger called the resolution an opportunity for Iraq and the U.N. Security Council here.
It's not known whether this resolution, though, will produce support from other countries for troops for Iraq. The Russian charge d'affair here said there are not many people who want to be volunteers right now for Iraq. There are 120,000 troops, that should be enough.
Countries, Wolf, such as China and Germany here today saying they promised financial aid instead. Back to you.
BLITZER: Richard Roth, thanks very much. And we expect to be hearing from Russian President Putin shortly. He's with President Bush down in Georgia. Once they speak, we'll go there. Richard Roth, thanks very much.
We want to show you videotape that we just received only a few minutes ago. The Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry over at Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California paying his respects to the late president. Kerry had already planned to be in California today for his daughter's graduation from film school.
He called Reagan, and I'm quoting now, "a very likable guy." John Kerry, take a look at this, paying his last respects to the 40th president of the United States. Like so many others, tens of thousands of others, he has come to the Reagan Library to say thank you to the 40th president of the United States. John Kerry, the Democratic presidential candidate.
It started as a steady stream, now a sea of mourners flooding the Reagan Library to view the late president's casket. And the outpouring of respect will soon move from California to here, Washington, D.C., the nation's capital, where preparations are being made for a state funeral.
We're covering both ends of the story with CNN's Ted Rowlands. he's in Moorpark, California. And CNN congressional correspondent Ed Henry on Capitol Hill. Let's begin with Ted who's near the Reagan Library -- Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the turnout here from the public has far exceeded the family's expectations. It's now estimated that almost 60,000 people have come through here to pay their respects to President Reagan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS (voice-over): They're coming by the tens of thousands, making the somber two-minute loop around Ronald Reagan's flag-draped coffin. They are a cross section of the country dressed in everything from Sunday best to shorts and t-shirts, drawn together by respect for the nation's 40th president.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was a lot of that people loved him. And I feel really honored, honored, to be here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to say a prayer for the president and acknowledge how much of a nice man he was and how much he's done for our country.
ROWLANDS: They came throughout the night. So many that traffic ground to a halt in the middle of the night on a nearby freeway named for the late president.
By dawn, 40,000 people had made the pilgrimage with thousands more waiting up to seven hours for their turn to spend a few minutes in quiet contemplation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a privilege to be here. And the waiting in line was a privilege also. And turning around and seeing all of the -- my fellow citizens it was really heartening to see so many people who obviously fell the same thing that I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As soon as I saw the flag-draped coffin, the tears began to come to my eyes. It was moving to see the young gentlemen standing there, so still, not moving.
ROWLANDS: A spokesman for the Reagan families says overwhelming demand was unexpected. In response, the viewing is being extended it by four hours to 10:00 local time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: And folks that want to view the president's remains must be here within the hour. They are cutting it off at 3:00. Anybody here after that will not be ensured the opportunity to pay their respects. But if they're here before 3:00, they will have an opportunity to do so.
The Reagans have issued a statement saying they are sorry that some people will not be included in this process. The route, however from Point Mugu to the Presidential Library on Friday evening will be widely published so people are encouraged to come out and view the president as he makes his final journey on Friday evening before the burial back to Simi Valley -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Ted, there was one moving moment. There have been so many moments, God knows, at the library. But some Boy Scouts were there. I want to show our viewers what happened when they showed up. Look at this. They all stood at attention and then they began to salute the former president.
ROWLANDS: That by far was the single most moving moment in terms of an image that has come out of here because all of those youngsters took up the entire line on the side of the casket and saluted the former commander in chief.
As you mentioned, there have been so many moving stories and moving moments. But that one most enduring because of the visual impact of all of the youngsters saluting the former president.
BLITZER: CNN's Ted Rowlands on the scene for us. Ted, thanks very much.
Let's come to Washington, D.C. Right now preparations being made for a state funeral befitting a former commander in chief while taking into account the reality, potential at least, of terrorism. Our congressional correspondent Ed Henry is on over on en Capitol Hill where the former president will lie in state -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, preparations are just starting to kick into high gear as security tightens and anticipation builds for this momentous event.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice-over): Precision is key to such an historic occasion, just the tenth state funeral for an American president in history.
Before the drama plays out before millions of people around the world, military personnel practiced the somber duty of loading the casket onto a horse-drawn caisson.
The procession will start at 6:00 p.m. with the caisson starting near the White House for its journey to the Capitol. Six horses will tug the flag-draped coffin. A seventh horse will trail the caisson, wearing an empty saddle with a pair of Reagan's own boots reversed in the stirrups. Planners say this indicates that the warrior will never ride again. The dress rehearsal also included the testing of the 21-gun salute. Once the casket reaches the west front of the Capitol, it will be walked up the grand entrance where Mr. Reagan was sworn into office. The casket will then be led up this set of stairs, leading into the rotunda where workers are preparing for an estimated 150,000 people to file past the casket from Wednesday evening through Friday morning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: Wolf, those preparations are really going to pick up and grow more dramatic in just about an hour when we hear the roar of jet planes, military planes, flying over the National Mall getting ready, preparations for the 21-jet flyover that will include a missing man maneuver where one jet will shoot up and break away from the rest of the pack. Again, another dramatic symbol that we will see in just about an hour -- Wolf?
BLITZER: And the security will be as tight as it would be at a presidential inauguration, is that what Capitol Hill police are telling you?
HENRY: Oh, absolutely. A memo went out to all senators saying that this will be classified as a national security special event. As you said, like an inaugural, like a political convention. Officers who were going to take a day off can't do that this week. You're going to have the Secret Service involved, the FBI, the department of homeland security, they're going to leave no stone unturned. Police officials here say they will be ready and they think they actually had a good dress rehearsal with the recent opening at the World War II memorial that enabled them to test everything out with tens of thousands of people and also President Bush and plenty of other dignitaries.
BLITZER: CNN's Ed Henry will be busy over the next several hours and days. Thanks very much. To our viewers, here's your chance to weigh in on this important story. Our web question of the day is this, "should Ronald Reagan's image replace Alexander Hamilton's on the $10 bill?" You can vote right now. Go to CNN.com/wolf. We'll have the results for you later in this broadcast.
In a moment, the cause that has Nancy Reagan and the White House on opposing sides. Now support swelling behind the former first lady. Will President Bush compromise when it comes to stem cell research? I'll ask the Senate majority leader Bill Frist. He's my guest. He's standing by. He'll join me next.
Plus this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I condemn torture. I think it...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It does not justify.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think it's productive. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER:: Lecturing the attorney general of the United States when it comes to torture. A powerful exchange earlier today here in Washington. We'll share it with you.
And happening now. We're waiting to hear directly from President Bush and Russian President Vladimir Putin. Their comments expected this hour from the summit at Sea Island, Georgia. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Ronald Reagan's death is highlighting a rift in the Republican party over the issue of embryonic stem cell research which could lead to new treatments for Alzheimer's and other diseases and conditions. Our congressional correspondent Joe Johns joining us like with more on that -- Joe.
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, as you said, this is a very tough issue that has been getting attention for years. But now with the death of President Reagan, it's getting even more attention.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Nancy Reagan is re-energizing the debate over expanding embryonic stem cell research. 58 senators have joined her call to free up more stem cell lines for research into cures for conditions such as Alzheimer's.
NANCY REAGAN, FMR. FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: We have lost so much time already and I just really can't bear to lose anymore.
JOHNS: In 2001, the White House set strict limits on stem cell research because it calls for the destruction of human embryos. Research advocates say those embryos would be thrown away anyway and want the White House to soften its position. But leading conservatives in Congress say they will not relent.
SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R), PENNSYLVANIA: If he would authorize or any future administration would authorize the deliberate killing of a human being for the purposes of research, they would not have my support.
JOHNS: Not all conservatives agree. Abortion opponent Orrin Hatch of Utah and 13 other Republican senators have signed on in support of expanded research.
SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: There's no question it's a human cell but it doesn't have a chance of becoming a human being unless it's implanted in a womb.
JOHNS: More than 200 House members have also signed a letter supporting wider research. While the death of Ronald Reagan has clearly put the issue in the spotlight, advocates are wary about using his death to push the agenda. One senior congressional aide asked, what point does it become tacky?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: So will the president compromise? Tonight the White House says it still wants to explore the promise of stem cell research but not by crossing what it calls a fundamental moral line -- Wolf.
BLITZER: Joe Johns at Capitol Hill, thanks very much.
For more on the controversy and other issues we're joined now by doctor and Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist. He's also on Capitol Hill.
Is there some wiggle room here now, Senator Frist, in which maybe the administration can soften its opposition?
FRIST: Wolf, I think stem cell research, first of all, everybody agrees, I think everybody agrees it does offer promise -- very early. There's adult stem cell, there is embryonic stem cell. And in truth the Bush administration has markedly increased funding for stem cell research. Most of it has been adult stem cell.
The focus of today, and with Nancy Reagan and the cut that you just had earlier, is: How much more should we open the door to embryonic stem cell research? And, as you can tell, again, from the video that you just did, it really depends on how much moral significance people put on that human embryo.
It's been three years now since the Bush policy was put forward. The number of cell lines hasn't been as many as anticipated from that initial policy. So I do think that in the coming months probably after the elections, there will be a review, including hearings and oversight, to see if the intended policy has accomplished its objectives.
BLITZER: Well, you're the leader, not only the leader of the Senate, but you're also a physician, a surgeon. Would you be open to going along with what Senator Orrin Hatch is suggesting?
FRIST: I don't know exactly what Orrin has suggested. But I do think it is time for a re-examination of the policy put forward.
I do think stem cell research does offer real promise. Again, it's very early. And therefore, as majority leader, I will be leading in a direction of oversight, of review, see if the policy has worked or not worked.
And of course the moral significance is very important to me. To me, those embryos are life, they do have moral significance. And that has to be weighed in.
The real challenge is to have expansion of the research, appropriate expansion, but to have appropriate moral and ethical guidelines.
BLITZER: It looks like you're keeping an open mind, at least in the coming months, is that fair to say?
FRIST: Yes. And I think everybody will. Again, it's been three years since the policy was initiated. And I think we need to go back and examine whether or not the policy is accomplishing the goals, whether or not the ethical guidelines are being adhered to, and then making a determination of whether or not that door should be opened more or not. We have to be very careful. Again, I do give moral significance to that embryo.
BLITZER: All right. Senator Frist, you just came back from Iraq. You met with the new prime minister of Iraq, the incoming prime minister, Iyad Allawi. The Security Council, as you now know, has unanimously now passed this resolution supporting the June 30th transfer of power.
What's your bottom line eyewitness assessment? Is this going to work?
FRIST: Well, Wolf, the prime minister, who will be leading the country over there, I was very impressed with. I met with him two days ago in Baghdad. He is very direct. He is very bold. He told me that he is looking for that national unity. He very much believes in the coalition forces being a necessary condition for them to achieve democracy.
He told me democracy is his objective. It's not just representative government.
So I found him very engaging, very committed. The really smart thing that I heard him say is that we've got to fight the terrorists. Why? Not because the terrorists have been opposing the coalition forces, but because the terrorists are hurting the Iraqi people.
And now we have an Iraqi face saying that, not just Americans. Therefore, I left there very optimistic.
BLITZER: What about this new president? He doesn't seem to be as robustly pro-American as the prime minister, Ghazi al-Yawar.
FRIST: Well, you know, I haven't met him yet. And again, we haven't met very many of the leadership.
One of the other good points is the ministers, the 33 ministers are up and running now. A lot of people are worried about the transition date of June 30th. One of the good things that I found out is that ministers, a very diverse group, six women, two-thirds with Ph.D.s, the ministry, sort of cabinet, the people in charge of oil, education, defense are all up and running right now.
The president, I have not met. Nobody knows whether the president's going to be the figurehead, really the symbolic head of the country, and the prime minister the real operational leader. That's sort of the way it's being billed now. And that's why I was glad to see the prime minister.
BLITZER: How important was Ronald Reagan, as far as you are concerned?
FRIST: Very important. I'm a relatively young leader in the Republican Party now. And if it weren't for Ronald Reagan, with his commitment to smaller government and lower taxes and less regulation, we simply would not be the majority party today.
He really took those conservative principles, and on his shoulders we stand today as governing both the White House and the United States Senate and the House of Representatives. Without his commitment, his moral clarity, without his boldness, his courage, his comfort with who he was in articulating a vision, we simply would not be here today.
BLITZER: Senator Bill Frist, the majority leader in the U.S. Senate.
Thanks, Senator, very much for joining us.
FRIST: Great to be with you, Wolf.
BLITZER: We're standing by for word directly from the president of the United States and the president of Russia. We'll head over to Sea Island, Georgia, where Mr. Bush is meeting with Vladimir Putin. We'll get to that.
Plus this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what directly results when you have that kind of memoranda out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is false. It is inappropriate conclusion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: Getting grilled when it comes to the issue of torture. Did someone in the U.S. government give the green light to U.S. forces to torture prisoners?
And after months of Mars in the headlines, why Venus is now stealing at least some of the spotlight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There were fireworks on Capitol Hill today when the Attorney General John Ashcroft faced tough questioning from a Senate committee investigating Iraqi prisoner abuse, among other issues. Our justice correspondent Kelli Arena joining us now live with details -- Kelli.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the first time that John Ashcroft has appeared before the Senate judiciary committee in more than a year and it happened to come on the same day that several newspaper headlines suggested legal guidance from the justice department led to abuses at Abu Ghraib and that dominated the discussion.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): Senators demanded to know if the justice department told the president it was legally OK to torture al Qaeda terrorists and whether the president, based on that advice, issued an order on interrogations that led to the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We know when we have these kinds of orders what happens. We get the stress test, we get the use of dogs, we get the forced nakedness that we've all seen.
JOHN ASHCROFT, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: First of all, let me completely reject the notion that anything that this president has done or the justice department has done has directly resulted in the kinds of atrocities which were cited. That is false.
ARENA: Justice department lawyers did contribute to a March 2003 report obtained by CNN which suggests interrogators have broad latitude to use pressure when questioning detainees.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Did your department issue a memorandum that would suggest that torture is allowed under certain circumstances as the press has reported?
ASHCROFT: The president has not directed or ordered any conduct that would violate the constitution of the United States.
ARENA: But Ashcroft refuse repeated Democratic demands to turn over memos or to tell senators what legal advice he gave the president. And the sparring got personal.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: There's a reason why we sign these treaties. To protect my son in the military. That's why we have these treaties. So when Americans are captured they are not tortured. That's the reason. In case anybody forgets it, that's the reason.
ASHCROFT: Well, as a person whose son is in the military now on active duty, and has been in the Gulf within the last several months, I'm aware of those considerations and I care about your son.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: Some senators even threatened the attorney general with contempt of Congress for not relaying what he told the president. Without citing executive privilege, they say, he has an obligation to answer all of their questions.
BLITZER: Senator Biden was pretty, pretty upset, wasn't he?
ARENA: He wasn't the only one. Senator Kennedy, Senator Leahy, very, very emotional dialogue.
BLITZER: Kelli Arena, thanks very much. Georgia's Sea Island, an unlikely crossroads for world leaders but that's where President Bush is right now as part of an economic summit. Other issues, though, big issues, sharing the stage. We'll have details.
Plus -- just weeks before the handover, two of Iraq's major cities are rocked again by violence. We'll tell you where and what happened.
And later, prayers for a president. We'll go back to California as a nation mourns for Ronald Reagan.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
President Bush getting down to brass tacks with his international counterparts. We'll take you to the G-8 Summit, Sea Island, Georgia. We're waiting to hear from the president and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin. We'll get there soon.
First, though, a quick check of the latest headlines.
The Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California, is extending visiting hours until 10:00 p.m. local time, so that more people can pay their final respects to former President Ronald Reagan. An estimated 40,000 people mourners have filed past the casket as of this morning. The president's body will be flown to Washington, D.C., tomorrow.
Two months after they were kidnapped in Iraq, three Italian civilians have been rescued by coalition forces. The three men, they're shown here while they were still hostages, are said to be in good health. Coalition officials say rescue operations also freed a Polish hostage.
A car bomb exploded in Mosul, Iraq, as a convoy of provincial council members passed by. They were unhurt. Nine other people, though, died. Another car bomb in Baquba killed one U.S. soldier and at least one Iraqi.
President Bush is hosting world leaders on a small island off the coast of Georgia. The G-8 forum was designed to focus on economic issues. But that agenda is being overshadowed as the president tries to forge a consensus on a blueprint for the rebuilding of the new Iraq.
Our White House correspondent Dana Bash is joining us now live from Savannah with more -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, the president is meeting with Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, at this hour. We're expect to hear from Mr. Bush about the political victory that he just received at the United Nations, a unanimous vote there on an Iraq resolution. And it's a victory not only for the president, but also for the British prime minister, Tony Blair, who, among many other leaders, has arrived at Sea Island for the G-8 summit. And it is something that the White House was hoping would happen at this time. It is certainly the way that they hoped to kick off this summit as part of the unofficial theme for the White House, which is mending fences with some of the allies who did not support the war.
In fact, the G-8, the eight countries that make up the G-8 were evenly divided over whether or not to support the war. Tony Blair, for his part, a short while ago said that this is an important symbol, that it's not just the United States and Great Britain now that are backing Iraq and the new government there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: For the Iraqis themselves, this means that they now realize they have a unified world community on their side helping them towards the stability and the democracy and the prosperity they want to see for themselves.
And I think for the terrorists and the fanatics, the former regime elements that are trying to stop this process of democracy, I think they now know that it isn't just the United States and the U.K. or indeed the multinational force. It's the whole of the United Nations and the world community.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: And, Wolf, as I mentioned, leaders are still arriving at Sea Island. Now we have the prime minister of Italy, Silvio Berlusconi, who is arriving at this hour. He is another person who has been a staunch ally of President Bush, has some troops in Iraq to help out the coalition there.
He is actually somebody who President Bush just visited several days ago in Rome. And they stood shoulder to shoulder to talk about moving forward. But this is something that the president is hoping to talk about later. And he got some positive words even from a foe of the war just earlier, Gerhard Schroeder, who said that he did think that this is an important way to move forward. This is exactly the kind of thing that the White House is hoping to hear from people like Gerhard Schroeder at the summit -- Wolf.
BLITZER: CNN's Dana Bash reporting from the summit -- Dana, thanks very much. We'll go back there once President Bush and Russian President Putin meet the news media.
We've heard high praise for President Reagan's legacy as president, but there is still debate over he did enough to combat terrorism. Coming up, I'll speak live with former CIA Director Robert Gates.
Plus, they continue to come out by the thousands, the tens of thousands, to pay their last respects for President Reagan. Later, we'll go back live to Simi Valley, California. We'll get to all of that.
First, though, a quick look at some other news making headlines around the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER (voice-over): Italian police have arrested a key suspect in the Madrid train bombings, an Egyptian said to have been planning further attacks. The March 11 bombings killed 190 people.
Gunned down. A U.S. citizen has been slain in Saudi Arabia. He worked for a company that trains and equips the Saudi National Guard.
Withdrawal plan. South Korea and the United States are discussing a U.S. plan to withdraw some troops from the Korean Peninsula. The Pentagon wants to redeploy 12,000 Americans, about one-third of the current total, forcing South Korea to take more responsibility for defending its own border.
Calling it quits. Two members of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's Cabinet have turned in their resignations to protest Mr. Sharon's plans to pull Israeli settlers out of Gaza. They represented the pro-settler National Religious Party. But a spokesman says the party will remain in Mr. Sharon's coalition, at least for now.
And that's our look around the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: There's understandably been a lot of praise this week for the legacy of President Reagan.
But, in truth, in some areas at least, that legacy is somewhat mixed. Take terrorism, for example. The 9/11 Commission has heard from a number of witnesses who say President Reagan's failure to respond to the 1983 bombing that killed more than 200 United States Marines in Lebanon led at least in part to Osama bin Laden and others believing the United States was weak.
Our national security correspondent David Ensor has been looking into this -- David.
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, presidents have to make very difficult calls sometimes and this was clearly a difficult one for Mr. Reagan. But it's one that still resonates, that still creates, in the belief of some people at least, trouble for this country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR (voice-over): Before 9/11, the Beirut bombing of 1983 that killed 241 Marines was the most devastating terrorist attack on Americans. RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If we were to leave Lebanon now, what message would that send to those who foment instability and terrorism?
ENSOR: Yet, within a few weeks, Mr. Reagan pulled the Marines out.
REAGAN: They're not going to see this as cutting and running.
ENSOR: Unfortunately, Osama bin Laden has made clear that is exactly how he and many others in the Middle East region saw it.
PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think the most important message from the Beirut bombing of '83 for bin Laden was that, if you turn enough body bags over to the United States, you'll actually change American foreign policy.
ENSOR: Reagan administration officials reject the criticism.
EDWIN MEESE, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: So it was not a matter of cutting and running. It was a matter of having accomplished the mission and where they would go next.
The other thing was, in terms of punishing those people responsible, it was never -- they had never been able to determine who it was who was responsible.
ENSOR: But in fact U.S. intelligence did know fairly soon, according to senior officials at the time and Robert Baer, then a CIA officer in Beirut. They knew that the Lebanese Hezbollah had carried out the bombing under orders from Iran and that it was organized by a man named Imad Mugniyah.
BERGEN: Imad Mugniyah, who is the mastermind of that bombing, remains at liberty 21 years later.
JOHN LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: We did not retaliate, even though we now know that there was an intercept directly of the Iranian government ordering the assassination of our Marines.
ENSOR: The Reagan administration's record on terrorism also includes negotiating with Iran, offering arms in exchange for hostages in Lebanon. But it includes, too, a forceful response to Libya when intelligence showed Moammar Gadhafi was behind an attack on U.S. soldiers at a German disco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ENSOR: ... Mr. Reagan, 1983 was another era. Before 9/11, almost all terrorist incidents were treated by American presidents as matters for law enforcement, matters that did not require a military response -- Wolf.
BLITZER: David Ensor -- thanks, David, very much.
So did President Reagan send any mixed messages when it comes to terrorism?
Robert Gates was the No. 2 man over at the CIA during the Reagan administration. He later became the CIA director. He spent almost three decades as an intelligence professional over at the agency and on the National Security Council. He served six American presidents.
Robert Gates is joining us now live from Cleveland, Ohio. He's president of Texas A&M University.
Mr. Gates, thanks very much for joining us.
With hindsight, looking back, how much of a blunder was it not to retaliate for the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut?
ROBERT GATES, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: The problem that we had after the bombing of the Marine barracks was simply the fact that, while we did learn that it was Hezbollah, I can't tell you how many meetings we had in the White House looking at options for retaliating against Hezbollah. We also looked at options for retaliating against Iran.
People forget that that was still a very tough time in the Cold War. And one of the reasons the decision was ultimately made not to go after Iran was the concern that it would force the relatively new Islamic revolutionary government there into the hands or the arms of the Soviets.
So I think it wasn't a blunder. It was the absence of good targets to go after where there wouldn't be a huge amount of collateral damage, either political. Or, in the case of Hezbollah, many of their headquarters buildings and so on were located next to hospitals. We found the place where they practiced for their attack. But it was right next to a hospital.
And so the ability to do that really wasn't there. When the president did have the opportunity to take a clean shot, as was the case in Libya in 1986, he took it.
BLITZER: But you can understand the critics who are now saying, like John Lehman, for example, a member of the 9/11 Commission, who was then Navy secretary during the Reagan administration, that, at least with hindsight, you can understand why Hezbollah or al Qaeda or other terrorist groups might conclude that the United States was weak.
GATES: Well, I don't necessarily agree with that.
I think that the attack on Libya, the decision to send the troops into Granada, the decision to send the troops in the first place into Lebanon all indicated that the president was prepared to use U.S. military force when he thought it was appropriate.
BLITZER: In your sense, looking back on Ronald Reagan and the war on terrorism, a lot of criticism of Bill Clinton in the '90s for not responding, let's say, forcefully enough. But could Ronald Reagan in the '80s have done more?
GATES: Well, I think a lot was done. People forget that we dealt with the whole terrorist situation in the Middle East. We had a lot of hostages in the Middle East, including our station chief in Beirut. I think, when we had the opportunity to act, we did. The president was consistently putting pressure on CIA to do more. And it was under that pressure, quite frankly, that in 1986, early 1986, the first counterterrorism center was set up at CIA that actually brought in people from the FBI, the National Security Agency and other agencies to try and have an integrated U.S. approach to trying to deal with the terrorist threat.
BLITZER: You have an important article in today's "New York Times" on the op-ed page, which you say it's premature to start thinking in terms of some sort of intelligence czar, a new kind of leader for the CIA in the aftermath of George Tenet's decision to step down.
Why isn't it a good idea to have one director who could control the entire intelligence community?
GATES: That is a good idea. The question is whether you can actually get it done in the realities that exist in Washington, both in the Congress and in the Department of Defense.
More than 80 percent of the foreign intelligence dollars that are spent in the United States are spent by the Department of Defense. So the question is, how do you give the director of central intelligence or your top foreign intelligence person the authority to determine how those dollars are going to be spent and then the ability to hold people accountable in terms of whether they did it or not?
And the focus of my article was that a number of the proposals that have been put forward purport to give him that kind of authority, but I think, at the end of the day, after legislation is done and the compromises are made, we'll have a situation in which the head intelligence person is actually weaker than the director of central intelligence is today.
I think there are ways to strengthen the director and to give him that kind of an authority without upsetting the apple cart and undertaking a completely new kind of structure.
BLITZER: What's the single most important thing that you believe the CIA needs right now in order to better protect the American people from terrorists?
GATES: Well, I think it needs two things.
First, it needs to have its leader have the authority to be able to prioritize and deploy the resources available to all of U.S. intelligence, as necessary. And the second is, it needs predictability in terms of its resources.
The CIA's budget increase in the spring of 2002 was the first major increase they had received since 198. It takes five to 10 years to train a field officer, an analyst or even develop a technical collection system. And so it's really important that they have predictability in their resources. I think, if you give them those two things, it's very important.
And I would just add, there's been a lot of criticism of CIA. And I'd say that, in light of some of the failures, a good bit of that criticism is deserved. But I think it also is important, as we think about how to proceed that, knock wood, there hasn't been a major -- there hasn't been a successful terrorist attack in the United States in almost three years. I think the FBI and CIA ought to get a little credit for that.
I think that they've had more successes since September 11 than they're given credit for.
BLITZER: Well, let's hope it stays like that.
Robert Gates, the former CIA director, thanks for spending a few moments with us today. Appreciate it very much.
GATES: My PHILLIPS: easure.
BLITZER: An emotional gathering that could be mere prologue. Up next, we'll take you back to the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California, an incredible outpouring of respect, as the nation prepares for the late president's state funeral.
And space history in real time. You're living through a rare moment in the life of the planet. We'll tell you what we mean.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Mourners continuing to line up outside the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California, to pay their final respects.
Let's go back there. CNN's Ted Rowlands standing by in Moorpark, California -- Ted.
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, they are estimating that when visitation is over at 10:00 local here tonight, that more than 75,000 people will have come through to pay their respects to Ronald Reagan.
Two of the folks that have been standing in line here are Eric (ph) and his son Taylor (ph) from Southern California.
A lot of people have come from across the region here. You guys took the time out to stand in line. Taylor got the day off of school. Why did you come out?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I remember vividly when John F. Kennedy was shot. And I was about his age and going down Constitution Avenue, and the same thing. You know, and President Reagan after today will be sent back to Washington. And I wanted him to, you know, come and see the same thing for history.
ROWLANDS: Taylor, are you excited to go through this process, besides getting out of school? What does it mean to you? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like just standing in line and waiting for the bus, because I like riding on buses.
ROWLANDS: All right, well, this is going to be a memory, I'm sure, that you will remember for the rest of your life, just two of the many thousands people that have taken the time out, Wolf, to come out here, make the drive, stand in line, to pay their final respects to Ronald Reagan.
Of course, this scene will play out as well on the East Coast starting tomorrow in Washington, D.C. -- Wolf.
BLITZER: And tens of thousands of people here in Washington, Ted, already getting ready to pay their respects when his body lies in state up on Capitol Hill.
Ted Rowlands reporting for us, thanks very much.
Our picture of the day has people rushing to look directly into the sun. We'll tell you why.
Also, the result of our "Web Question of the Day" when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Check out the results of our "Web Question of the Day." Remember, this is not a scientific poll.
Our picture of, the transit of Venus. It occurs when Venus passes between the Earth and the sun, casting a silhouette. Today marks the first time that has happened since 1882, when John Philip Sousa was so impressed, he wrote "The Transit of Venus March."
We leave you with that music.
("THE TRANSIT OF VENUS MARCH" PLAYS)
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