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Lou Dobbs Tonight

Iraqi Insurgents Attack U.S. Base; 9/11 Commission Staff Lays out Terrorist Plot Against America

Aired June 16, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Wednesday, June 16. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.

Iraqi insurgents today launched a bold attack against a U.S. base, killing two American soldiers and wounding nearly two dozen others. The attack came exactly two weeks before the United States is set to transfer power to the Iraqis. President Bush in a speech to American troops said insurgents are likely to launch more attacks in the weeks ahead.

Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, as the countdown to the hand-over of sovereignty continues, the violence level in Iraq continues to increase.

Today, the deadliest attack in a town 50 miles north of Baghdad, Balad, where the U.S. has a logistics base. Three U.S. soldiers were killed. Twenty-five other people were wounded, including two civilian workers, the military said, when that rocket slammed into the logistics base.

It was one of several attacks today, including attacks against the oil pipeline and also a mortar that exploded in the green zone in Baghdad, a surge of attacks as that turnover of sovereignty continues.

Today, speaking to U.S. troops around the world in remarks beamed from the U.S. Central Command headquarters at McDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Florida, President Bush said the U.S. will not be deterred.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We can expect more attacks in the coming few weeks, more car bombs, more suiciders, more attempts on the lives of Iraqi officials, but our coalition is standing firm. New Iraq leaders are not intimidated. I will not yield, and neither will the leaders of Iraq!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: Meanwhile, the United States says that there are fresh intelligence indicators that the town of Fallujah, an insurgent stronghold, may be the place where the man that the Pentagon believes is behind most of these attacks, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, is holding up. He's been believed to be in this area. But Pentagon sources say there is fresh indication that he's there.

Fallujah, of course, is where the United States tried to get creative in creating a Fallujah brigade of former Iraqi soldiers and officers to restore the peace, and now Pentagon officials privately conceding that was an experiment that's simply not working out -- Lou.

DOBBS: Jamie, thank you.

Jamie McIntyre, senior Pentagon correspondent.

Insurgents have stopped all of Iraq's oil exports with a series of attacks against Iraqi oil facilities. Saboteurs today attacked a key pipeline in southern Iraq for the second straight day. The loss of the oil revenue is a huge setback for Iraq as it struggles to rebuild its economy.

Kitty Pilgrim reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqi oil exports have been cut off. Terrorist attacks knocked out southern pipelines and oil exports through Iraq's two offshore terminals in the South. The fire from the attack caused heavy damage.

The attacks escalated this week, but there have been some 130 attacks over the past seven months. The purpose: to sabotage oil and oil revenues meant for funding the new government and reconstruction.

DAN SENOR, COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY: It is an effort to basically economically impoverish the Iraqi people, wreak havoc in this country in the lead-up to the June 30 hand-over.

PILGRIM: Several pipeline attacks over a three-day period last week caused power disruptions. Oil was being exported from southern Iraq. Just after the war, terrorist attacks targeted the main pipelines in the North of Iraq that ran from Kirkuk to the Port of Ceyhan in Turkey. The average production along that line, some 250,000 barrels a day, went down to virtually zero.

Fleets of coalition ships are now protecting Iraq's offshore oil terminals in the South which were targeted in April by suicide bombers. Those attacks failed.

Now the highly optimistic projections for Iraq's oil revenues look less and less likely. Output even before the latest attacks was already lagging, averaging 1.8 million barrels a day.

JOHN KINGSTON, PLATT GLOBAL ENERGY: The Iraqis were hoping to hit production of three million barrels a day by the end of the year. That's not going to happen. They were looking to go to four million barrels a day over the next couple of years. That's not going to happen unless they get $10 billion to $20 billion in investment, and no outside companies are going to invest that kind of money in that sort of chaos.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Well, coalition officials were optimistic, saying they could restore at least partial oil flow in days. Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi says that $200 million have been stolen out of the pockets of Iraqi people because of lost oil revenues -- Lou.

DOBBS: Kitty, thank you.

There is no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda collaborated in any way in attacks against the United States. That is one of the findings of a new report by the commission investigating the September 11 attacks. The commission also revealed new information about al Qaeda's preparations for those attacks.

National Security Correspondent David Ensor reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: With chilling new detail, the 9/11 commission staff laid out what it called "a highly competent flexible plot to attack the United States." Commissioners were dismayed.

JAMES THOMPSON, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: How in the world do we ever expect to win this war, and, if the war is not winnable in the traditional sense, how do we contain or checkmate this enemy?

ENSOR: Among the revelations, that mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed originally proposed hijacking 10 planes in the U.S. to hit targets on the West Coast, too, and that he would personally land the 10th after just the men on board had been killed in order to address the world's media; that the plotters argued about whether Flight 93 that crashed in Pennsylvania should target the U.S. Capitol or the White House -- Osama bin Laden wanted to hit the White House; the pilots thought the Capitol would be an easier target -- that one of the plotters says Zacarias Moussaoui was to have been the fourth pilot if Ziad Jarrah dropped out, as he was threatening to do; that original plans called for attacks in Asia and the U.S. simultaneously; that bin Laden wanted to attack back in 2000, but was told the hijackers weren't yet ready; that all 19 of the hijackers attended al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan.

DOUGLAS MACEACHIN, 9/11 COMMISSION STAFF: The camps created a climate in which trainees and other personnel were free to think creatively about ways to commit mass murder.

ENSOR: The commission made public photos of Mohammed Atta withdrawing money in Virginia April 4 and spoke of him using his cellphone in Florida April 6 through 11. So he couldn't have been in Prague meeting an Iraqi intelligence officer April 9 as administration officials had suggested. And, in fact, the commission said Iraq was not involved in 9/11.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: The commission also says there's intelligence suggesting al Qaeda may have played a role in the Khobar Towers bombing of 1996 that killed 19 U.S. servicemen in Saudi Arabia, apparently, in that case, cooperating with Hezbollah and Iran-- Lou.

DOBBS: David, the 9/11 commission holds its final public hearing tomorrow. What can we expect?

ENSOR: The hearing, Lou, is about what was going on in the skies on September 11. So the witnesses will be from the military, from the Federal Aviation Administration. One commissioner told me that we're going to have urban myths dispelled. One of them is the myth that there was an order given by the White House to shoot down civilian airliners and that the military was ready to carry out that order. Apparently, that is not true -- Lou.

DOBBS: David, thank you very much. David Ensor.

After the September 11 commission publishes the report, the White House insists that Saddam Hussein did have links with al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN BARTLETT, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Just because al Qaeda and Iraq may not have collaborated in a specific attack of 9/11 does not mean that there's not a relationship or a past relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda.

The fact that Al-Zarqawi was in Baghdad before the invasion demonstrates that he was giving safe haven to al Qaeda affiliates. People have testified to this issue, too. Make no mistake about it: Saddam Hussein had ties to terror.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: The White House is also focusing now on Iran and what it says is Tehran's plans to build nuclear weapons. The International Atomic Energy Agency is considering a resolution deploring Iran's failure to cooperate with international inspections.

The Iranian president today threatened to restart Iran's program to enrich uranium if the U.N. agency passes such a resolution. Iran says it wants to produce enriched uranium to power nuclear reactors, not to build nuclear weapons.

Coming up next here, the new multibillion dollar Homeland Security bill. One congressman says it's still not enough to protect our airports, our borders and our chemical plants. Congressman Martin Sabo joins us.

Also, the growing debate over whether the PATRIOT Act threatens our civil liberties. Tonight, in "Face Off," we talk with two experts with opposing opinions. And Democrats offer a plan to stop the shipment of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets to create millions of new jobs. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi its our guest.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The economy has added more than a million jobs in the past four months, but more than eight million Americans are still unemployed and companies continue to send tens of thousands of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets. Congressional Democrats today unveiled $125 billion plan that would put Americans back to work, spur innovation, raise education in the critical areas of math, science and engineering.

Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): House Democrats acknowledge globalization is here to stay, but they say it should not come at the expense of hard-working Americans.

REP. GEORGE MILLER (D), CALIFORNIA: We're just not sure that American tax dollars ought to be used to help pay for those jobs overseas, as opposed to giving tax breaks to corporations to create jobs in the United States.

SYLVESTER: The Democratic jobs plan replaces tax breaks that encourage exporting of jobs with tax cuts to help American manufacturers and small businesses: $40 billion to promote research and development, a $3,000 tax credit for businesses for every American job created in the next two years, additional assistance to displaced workers, and new fair trade agreements. The plan would cost $125 billion, paid for with money that used to go to corporate subsidies.

The Democratic proposal is in stark contrast to the Republican jobs bill that offers additional tax breaks to multinational corporations. Republican supporters say their bill will make American corporations more globally competitive. Democrats rip their plan as another example of corporate welfare.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: And there doesn't seem like there's a bill that can come down the pike that they will not figure out a way to reward their special interest friends at the expense of middle-class working Americans.

SYLVESTER: Democrats say their proposal will help people like Ron Larson, a laid-off high-tech help consultant. He has gone through his 401(k) savings and doesn't have any bright job prospects.

RON LARSON, LOST JOB TO OUTSOURCING: Anybody looking for a 57- year-old apprentice, I'm available. I'm willing to do just about anything.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: This Thursday and Friday, the House is expected to take up the Republican jobs bill and the Democratic alternative offered by Congressman Rangel -- Lou.

DOBBS: Lisa, thank you.

We'll have much more on the legislation. I'll be joined by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi who has introduced the new plan to create jobs in this country and to stop the exporting of jobs to cheap overseas labor markets.

This all brings us to tonight's thought: "The work of the individual still remains the spark that moves mankind ahead even more than teamwork." That from the father of the modern helicopter, Igor Sikorsky.

We've been reporting extensively here on the multibillion-dollar Homeland Security contract awarded to Accenture, a company in a foreign country, Bermuda. That contract has angered many Americans, including some in Congress, but Bermuda-based Accenture also has a lot of friends in Congress, as you might suspect, and, last night, they came to the Accenture's defense.

Peter Viles reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In Washington, there is rhetoric and there is clout.

REP. MARION BERRY (D), ARKANSAS: Can you imagine turning border control over to a foreign company? Doesn't that make a lot of sense? Not only is it a foreign company that we're turning the control of the borders over to, but we're paying them with tax dollars.

VILES: Last night, Republicans on the House Rules Committee had the clout, and they protected that Accenture border contract which could ultimately could be worth $10 billion. Democrats are still pushing to block similar contracts in the future. No Homeland Security contracts for so-called expatriate companies, companies like Tyco that have left the United States.

REP. ROSA DELAURO (D), CONNECTICUT: These contracts are wrong, that they do not reflect the values in this country. They do a disservice to every law-abiding company in America by putting them at a competitive disadvantage simply because they hold on to their American passport.

VILES: House Democrats say so-called corporate runaways received more than $1 billion in Defense and Homeland Security contracts in 2002. Leading the list, McDermott International of Panama, followed by Tyco of Bermuda, Accenture of Bermuda, and Foster Wheeler also of Bermuda.

But Accenture says it doesn't even belong on that list because it was never based in America. It cites a 2002 GAO report that says prior to becoming incorporated in Bermuda, it operated as a series of partnerships with a Swiss coordinating entity. Further, many in Congress defend the Accenture deal. This was Jim Kolbe of Arizona.

REP. JIM KOLBE (R), ARIZONA: The idea is that somehow Accenture is avoiding paying U.S. taxes and has some sort of unfair competitive advantage. But that's just simply not true. Neither the employees of Accenture are avoiding paying taxes nor is the company avoiding paying any taxes on any of its obligations or any of its profits that are made here in the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: Two years ago, Congress went on record in very big numbers objecting to security contracts for expatriate firms, that vote was disregarded by congressional leaders in a conference committee, leaving us back where we are now, Lou.

DOBBS: And Congressman Kolbe pointing out -- praising Accenture. As I recall, Accenture was formerly Andersen Consulting, Andersen itself based in Chicago.

VILES: Based in Chicago. That's the analysis of House Democrats. Accenture points to this GAO report which does not make mention of the Chicago connection. This is something the lawyers will figure out, I'm sure, Lou.

DOBBS: And, meanwhile, we're left to figure out Washington.

Pete, thank you.

Peter Viles.

We've invited, of course, representatives from Accenture to appear on this program a number of times. To date, they have declined our invitation. We have and are now, extending that invitation. We're going to leave it open to representatives, the executives of Accenture. We'd be delighted to have them join us. We've also invited Illinois Governor Ron Blagojevich to join us on this program. He has declined our invitation as well. All we want to do is talk about the merits. We'll keep trying.

Six people tonight are going for an ambitious world record. They are at this very moment trying to complete the longest ferris wheel ride ever. These six people are more than halfway through a three-day ride on the Colossus. That's at Six Flags St. Louis.

You're probably wondering just what is the longest ride on record? I know you're wondering that. I'm burning with curiosity myself. According to "The Guinness Book of World Records," no record exists for a continuous ferris wheel ride. It appears that we're going to fix all of that.

Coming up next, we'll have a look at some of your thoughts. And, in our Face Off tonight, has the PATRIOT Act gone too far? The shaky boundary between personal rights and national security. And later, soliciting campaign contributions from who? Illegal aliens. One congressman's campaign has done just that. We'll have that story tonight in Broken Borders.

And he does his job with dedication and pride. The inspiring story tonight of Jerry Mandetto in our continuing series celebrating the men and women of this country who make it work. "America Works" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Congress passed the PATRIOT Act after the terrorist attacks of September 11 to enhance this country's ability to fight the war on terror. Law-enforcement officials say it's been a tremendous help in their fight against terrorism. Civil libertarians, however, say it goes simply too far, and that debate is the subject of tonight's Face Off.

Joining me now are James Dempsey, executive director of the Center for Democracy and Technology. He says the PATRIOT Act does go too far. And former federal prosecutor Pat Woodward disagree. Both men join us tonight from our studios in Washington, D.C.

Good to have you here.

PAT WOODWARD, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Good evening.

JAMES DEMPSEY, CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND TECHNOLOGY: Hello, Lou.

DOBBS: Let me first begin, if I may, with you, Jim. How important has the PATRIOT Act been in our ability to fight successfully the war on terror?

DEMPSEY: Well, there are some good things in the PATRIOT Act. Clearly, our laws needed to be revisited, and there are some positive changes there, particularly promoting the sharing of information between the intelligence and the law-enforcement agencies which is important.

But really, if you look before 9/11, a lot of the failures had to do with turf fights between the agencies, failure to connect the dots. If you really look at it, the legal powers were there even before 9/11. They weren't used very well.

DOBBS: Do you agree, Pat?

WOODWARD: I do. I'd like to follow up on that point. The judges now under the PATRIOT Act can issue nationwide search warrants, for example. They couldn't do that before. So the PATRIOT Act, in my view, has really made law enforcement more efficient more than expanding the government's role. DOBBS: Jim, what is your principal concern? Is it the -- is it Section 215? Precisely what is your strongest objection to the PATRIOT Act?

DEMPSEY: I would say there are 10 or 12 provisions in that 300- page bill that are of concern. The pendulum swung too far. Congress acted in haste. Section 215, which you allude to, gives agents with no court approval, no court supervision, access to any business records, possibly encompassing entire databases of information.

There is another provision in there that allows secret searches by the government with a court order, but going in secretly, not telling you until weeks or months afterward that they've been in your house, and that applies...

DOBBS: The sneak and...

DEMPSEY: The so-called sneak and peek. Exactly. And that applies to ordinary criminal cases, not just terrorism cases.

DOBBS: Does that concern you, Pat?

WOODWARD: Well, the government's had that power for years before 9/11, before the PATRIOT Act. So I'm not so much concerned by that, because you do have judicial oversight with the sneak and peek.

I would like to compliment Jim on a letter he wrote back in November to Chairman Roberts about the National Security Letters. These are basically administrative subpoenas that the FBI issues, and that...

DOBBS: Senator -- we might point out here Senator Pat Roberts, the chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

WOODWARD: That's correct. And, basically, there's a gray area where if some one gets an NSL, they're told not to tell anyone, and it's not like a grand jury subpoena where you can move to quash. But there are options and people don't realize that they can move under seal perhaps to challenge those NSLs. So I think that Congress does need to address this murky area.

DEMPSEY: It's a question of checks and balances. We need to put some checks and balances, some oversight and accountability back into these powers. Don't take the powers away from the government, but make sure that they are subject to appropriate controls.

DOBBS: The SAFE Act proposed by Senator Larry Craig of Idaho -- you're thoughts on that, Jim?

DEMPSEY: Well, it's a bipartisan piece of legislation, both Republican and Democrats. It's also been introduced in the House, and that would do precisely what I think is needed, which is to put some of those checks and balances back in there.

For example, on National Security letters, give an opportunity to challenge those, require a greater focus to the government efforts. We don't have to really prevent the government from doing what they need to do, but we want them to be focused and subject to appropriate controls, and that's what the SAFE Act would do.

DOBBS: We should point out that Senator Craig is a conservative Republican.

Pat, your thoughts? Were you supportive of Senator Craig's legislation?

WOODWARD: Well, let me just say that I think that you have a Republican senator putting it out there. It makes the chances of it passing much more realistic. So I would sign on to that, and, hopefully, we can tweak it around the edges. But I think basically the PATRIOT Act makes law enforcement more efficient and doesn't necessarily expand its power.

DOBBS: Let me ask you this because, as I listen to both of you coming at this from quite different concerns, different experiences, I hear great agreement between the two of you about the PATRIOT Act, both its effectiveness, its efficiency and its necessity. Am I missing something, Pat? Jim?

WOODWARD: I'll defer to Jim.

DEMPSEY: Well, again, we have a real threat that this country faces, absolutely no doubt about it, and the government needs strong tools. But both in order to protect our constitutional rights, our privacy, and in order to ensure that the government is doing its job effectively, we need controls, checks, balances.

I didn't hear very many civil libertarians saying don't give the government these powers for terrorism cases. What we object to is the spillover into the ordinary criminal-justice system. The excessive secrecy that surrounds some of these powers and the lack of judicial review.

DOBBS: Pat, you have the final word.

WOODWARD: Well, thank you, Lou.

I would focus on these National Security Letters. I know there's pending legislation actually suing people at the FBI, and I do think that needs to be resolved so that people know what their options are when they get one of these NSLs.

DOBBS: We thank you very much, James Dempsey, Pat Woodward, for being here.

WOODWARD: Thank you, Lou.

DEMPSEY: Thanks. Take care.

DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question, "do you believe the PATRIOT Act is a violation of personal freedoms or critical to our national security?" Please cast your vote at cnn.com/Lou. We'll have results for you later in the broadcast. The Coast Guard today released dramatic nighttime video of a deadly boat trip Saturday off the coast of Puerto Rico. Ninety-four migrants were aboard the homemade boat which was headed from the Dominican Republic to Puerto Rico.

The Coast Guard arrived on the scene just as the boat began to sink. The crew tried to save as many as possible by tossing them life jackets and rafts. Most were saved, but three people did drown. The survivors were returned to the Dominican Republic.

The Coast Guard said the case highlights why they work day and night against illegal immigration.

The debate over illegal aliens and their place, if any, in a U.S. congressional election has actually become a central issue in at least one campaign.

Casey Wian reports tonight from Provo, Utah.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You wouldn't think illegal aliens would be a hot campaign topic in a Provo, Utah, congressional race. It's been a simmering issue since Republican Congressman Chris Cannon sponsored an illegal alien amnesty bill.

Now it's boiling over because of his recent appearance on a local Spanish language radio station. A campaign staffer pleaded with illegal aliens to break the law and funnel money to his campaign through legal residents or their children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If you are undocumented, you must find -- we welcome this money, but you have to find someone who is legal in order to donate the money.

CRAIG HOLMAN, PUBLIC CITIZEN: It appears fairly obvious that they did cross the line of federal campaign finance law and actively solicited contributions from illegal immigrants.

WIAN: At least, one supporter of Cannon's Republican primary opponent, Matt Throckmorton has filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission.

MATT THROCKMORTON, CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I'm not concerned that he's going to go out and raise $1,000 through illegal aliens, my biggest concern is this really demonstrates a pattern. Couple years ago Congressman Cannon gave a speech in which he stated, that Utahan's don't often make a distinction between legal and illegal. I beg to differ we do.

WIAN: The controversy revived Throckmorton's campaign, which has been trailing in fundraising and in the polls.

DAVID MAGLERY, BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIV.: Oh, it's a major mistake. It takes the immigration issue, which was possibly a secondary issue in the campaign, and puts it to the front page of the newspapers in Salt Lake City and throughout the district.

WIAN: In a statement, Cannon said, "it is ludicrous to suggest that my campaign would condone voting by noncitizens or contributions by foreign nationals." Cannon added he clarified some of his staff member's comments later in the radio broadcast.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: Even if Cannon survives Tuesday's primary challenge some here say the controversy could hurt him in the general election even against a relatively unknown Democratic challenger in a district that's one of the heaviest Republican districts in the entire country -- Lou.

DOBBS: Casey, thank you. Remarkable. Casey porting from Provo, Utah.

Now, taking a look at some of "Your Thoughts" on the issue of broken borders.

And Henry Weintraub, of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. "When an illegal is apprehended crossing the border, why not provide a bottle of water, a sandwich, and send them back on a bus. Why must they be provided with a day in court. They are illegal by definition.

And Dave Milam of Boones Mill, Virginia, "Why is the U.S. government so willing to patrol other nations border, yet unwilling to secure our own?

Al, Pasadena, California, "Just think how many more jobs the Bush administration has created now that U.S. Border Patrol uniforms have the label made in Mexico. I agree with T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, it's just the wrong thing to do.

And Elizabeth Montanya of Springfield, Virginia, "I am led that Americans including private citizens, the administration and the U.S. Congress are not appalled by the outsourcing of the security of our borders to a foreign firm. Isn't it bad enough that we have the largest trade deficit with the very countries where we are outsourcing our jobs. Now we have 10 to $15 billion of American taxpayer money going to a foreign firm. Have we lost our senses?"

Send us your comments to loudobbs@cnn.com. We'll share more of "Your Thoughts" later here tonight.

Also ahead, a Congressman Martin Sabo, he joins us to talk about the multibillion dollar Homeland Security bill that he says has "serious flaws."

Also tonight a massive effort to save American jobs. House minority leader, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi joins me.

And "America Works" tonight. We celebrate the men and women of this country who make America work. A man on a joyride after three decades on the job. Stay with us!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: As we reported earlier tonight on the Accenture legislation part of a $32 billion Homeland Security appropriation bill. My guest tonight says the entire legislation has serious flaws. Congressman Martin Sabo says it fails to provide enough funding for local police and so-called first responders. And the Congressman says the bill doesn't do enough to secure our nation's chemical plants nor our borders.

Congressman Sabo is the ranking Democrat on the House Appropriation Subcommittee on Homeland Security, joining us tonight from Capitol Hill.

Congressman, good to have you here.

REP. MARTIN SABO (D), MINNESOTA: Good to be with you.

DOBBS: How, in your judgment, how much more money is required to meet the level of security you would like to see?

SABO: You know, one can have an endless number, but I think if one could add $3 billion to next year's bill you could fill many of the most serious gaps in the bill.

DOBBS: Where would you put that -- I'm sorry.

SABO: Where would I put the money?

In a variety of places. One, I would not cut funding for local police and fire and emergency responders. I think that is foolish. I would make sure that we inspect more of the cargo that goes on airplanes -- planes with passengers. I would increase our border protection, particularly in our northern border where -- where 2,000 agents less than what the PATRIOT Act required. Then I would put additional attention to such things as our chemical plants, some of our border or our port facilities. And our inspection, containers coming into this country.

I think those would be the most crucial things. And let me put -- you know, when we talk about adding $3 billion, that's a lots of money to the normal budget. But just today, we in Appropriations, we added $25 billion to next year's defense budget for Iraq and Afghanistan. And all of us know that that is only a beginning of the extra cost that's more likely to be 50 billion and 60 billion. So we spent billions and billions of dollars for national security outside of this country. When much more modest expenditures could have a significant impact in this country. And we should be doing that.

DOBBS: Well, since you raised that question, Congressman, let me ask you as one of our viewers wrote in tonight to say, the United States is so eager to defend the borders of other countries, why is the United States government so reluctant to defend and protect our own?

Let me ask you that question. SABO: I don't have a good answer for that. We clearly should be doing more. But the administration has not had the same focus and paid the same attention to dealing with Homeland Security issues in this country as they have in dealing with some of the external threats.

DOBBS: Amongst the amendments, you proposed one to significantly increase the inspection of cargo. That was defeated. What is the next step for you?

It's that the end of discussion for you on that issue?

SABO: No. I expect we'll have an amendment on the House floor. And we'll see how the votes go. But that issue remains an important one and a crucial one. And I think most of the public is unaware that most of the cargo on the passenger planes is uninspected.

DOBBS: And I think much of the public certainly was unaware, perhaps until even last night, that almost 11,000 border patrol agents have been ordered basically to step aside. They have no apprehension responsibilities for illegal aliens crossing our borders. To me, frankly, that is shocking.

Judging from the response of our viewers, they found it shocking. And frankly -- if I can use the word disgusting. How concerned are you about the low morale of the border patrol, the fact there aren't sufficient numbers of border patrol officers to protect our borders and that they're not being used in the way one would expect someone with the name -- title border patrol agent to be used.

SABO: I'm not all that familiar. I think this was somebody with southern border. So, I'm not all that familiar with that. On the northern border we've been told under the PATRIOT Act that we should have about 6,900 border inspectors, we're 2,000 short of that. Clearly it needs additional resources to add those people. And it's important to have those additional people working. If -- if folks had limited capacity to do their job on the southern border that clearly is an issue we should deal with.

DOBBS: Congressman Sabo, we thank you for being with us tonight?

SABO: Good to be with you.

DOBBS: Unbelievable development tonight in the fallout from California's energy crisis. Enron is accused of overcharging the state of California billions of dollars for energy in 2000 and 2001. Now, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, FERC says California should repay $270 million to Enron and other energy companies. The refunds cover energy that California bought above market prices from Enron and then resold to the company. California's attorney general is demanding, as you might expect, that FERC reverse that order. He says it's adding insult to injury. And I think personally he has a very good case to make.

Coming up next, billions of dollars in remittances leave this country each year. All of that money headed for Mexico. Citigroup has a new plan, a new product to make it easier for that money to cross the border. Christine Romans will have the story.

And in our continuing story this week, "America Works" in which we honor and celebrate the men and women that make this country great, we introduce you to a man who spent three decades making sure you have the ride of your life. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Well the market didn't do much today. Indexes barely changed on Wall Street, in fact. But some changes at the nation's largest bank, it's got a new product for millions of Mexican immigrants in this country, including illegal aliens. Christine Romans is here with entrepreneurialism, innovation at its questionable best.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, illegal aliens in this country gaining a foothold in financial legitimacy. Citigroup is offering what it calls binational credit cards. All you need is a picture I.D., proof of U.S. address, secure with a few hundred bucks and family members in Mexico can draw from it, use it to go shopping; put dollars on the card here, draw pesos from it there.

Citigroup says it wants to serve the U.S. Hispanic market and it wants to strengthen ties between Mexicans on both sides of the border. On whether this service is targeted to illegal aliens, Citigroup says "immigration is not our realm of responsibility."

Making money, obviously, is. Regardless of Citibank's other responsibilities, it estimates 60 percent of the immigrants in the country are from Mexico. Mexican workers send about $1 billion a month to Mexico -- $5 charge on every $200 transaction, a $29 annual fee, the potential, is enormous, Lou. All you need is a photo I.D., a proof of a U.S. address, and there you go, your brand new all to yourself credit card.

DOBBS: Do you know what this card's is called.

ROMANS: Banamex U.S. credit card.

DOBBS: It's got such creative possibilities.

What did Citigroup say, again, about what they were trying to do across the border there?

ROMANS: Well, they would like to increase cross border -- strengthen ties between Mexicans here and in Mexico.

DOBBS: See it as their responsibility to be involved in that ambassadorial effort, but not in order to maintain immigration policy?

ROMANS: Immigration, apparently, not in their realm of responsibility.

DOBBS: Realm of responsibility. Terrific, Christine thank you.

ROMANS: Your welcome. DOBBS: It just gets better and better, doesn't it?

Taking a look, now, at more of your thoughts. Many of you wrote in about the proposed tax breaks for corporate America

Mary Barnett of West Palm Beach, Florida, "just when I think I've heard it all, I watch your show and am amazed again and again by the enormity of the corporate greed that propels our legislatures, and therefore, our country. They turn away from protecting our borders and our jobs, yet they boast of high productivity and grant more huge tax cuts to corporations in the name of keeping America competitive."

Shawn in Boca Raton, Florida, "Lou, please explain to me why companies have more rights than individual citizens in this country?"

Many of you also wrote in about the Supreme Court decision to preserve "Under God" and in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Jeanene Green of Indianapolis, Indiana, "the phrase 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance seems to be broad enough to apply to whatever religion is espoused. Those who believe there is no God are a small minority, and it seems to me they could tell their children simply not to include those words when they say the pledge."

Gail Rubio of Brea, California, "Lou, we can have our films, plays, printed material filled to running over with four letter words, pornographic scenes, murder, rape, pillage and war, but lest we offend the few, we may not have a three letter word, God, in our Pledge of Allegiance."

Well, the good news is that we may have that word in our Pledge of Allegiance. Send us your thoughts on all of the issues we cover here, loudobbs@cnn.com. We love to hear from you.

Tonight, we continue our week-long celebration of the American worker. Tonight we introduce you to one of the hard-working people in this country. For the past 30 years, Jerry Mendetto has maintained a New York City landmark, but the landmark is not a statue nor building, Mendetto works at a place where people come for a good scare and a good scream. Coney Island Cyclone, it's one of the nation's oldest and biggest roller coasters. Bill Tucker has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For 77 years it stood on Coney Island, a mecca to thrill seekers.

The Coney Island Cyclone, one half mile of wooden rollercoaster glory. 12 drops, 16 changes of direction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At its fastest, I'd say it's about 55.

TUCKER: And all original equipment, maintained by this man, Jerry Mendetto.

JERRY MENDETTO, CYCLONE OPERATOR: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the track has to be walked from start to finish. Another guy comes in with a helper and then go over the whole car, that was the day before. All the seats are taken out, everything is checked underneath and then put back together. And then we send it for a test run.

TUCKER: It all comes down to gravity and the control of force.

MENDETTO: This wheel here is what keeps you from going off the track. There is a lip that comes out. We call it the cap. These wheels ride on, that keeps you down. These are your running wheels up here.

TUCKER: OK.

MENDETTO: And that's what keeps you going.

TUCKER: But the Cyclone is not a ride as much as it seems to be a devotion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's great. It's awesome. It's fun. It's exhilarating.

MENDETTO: You'd be surprised how many people, 20 years on me. I'm 60. That come up here and, as excited as those children.

Sometimes you have people, they argue over the front seat. And some times it turns into a fight. Because I was here first. You were here first. Kid stuff. But adults are the worst. The adults they act like children. Oh, forget about it. And women for some reason. They can get their husband's in a lot of trouble over that front seat.

TUCKER (on camera): For over 3/4 century the cyclone has the set the standard for many in terms of rollercoaster rides. How long will it survive? Well, as long as Jerry is around to maintain it and there are a lot off adrenaline addicts in search of a cheap thrill. This ride is safe.

(voice-over): Did I mention that in all his 30 years, Jerry has never once ridden the Cyclone. Bill Tucker, CNN, Coney Island, New York!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Does he have a great job or what? Thank you, Bill Tucker.

Coming up next here, Democrats say they have a new plan to save American jobs. House Minority Leader Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi leading the way. She's our guest next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: As we reported House Democrats today unveiled a $125 billion ten-year plan to create a "Protect American Jobs." House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi says the Democratic-sponsored plan is intended to wake up a sleeping administration. Pelosi today said, quote, "Americans know that trade is good for our country when trade means we're exporting American goods not exporting American jobs. The global marketplace is changing and America must change with it but as we increase international trade, we must never trade our values."

The House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi joins me now from Capitol Hill. Good to have you with us, Leader.

My pleasure, thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: This is a broad program. Tax incentives, taking back some money as well from corporate America. Incentivizing Corporate America to create jobs. Which do you think is the most important measure in the short term?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: Well, first we have to stop the hemorrhaging of U.S. jobs going overseas. And the way to do -- one way to do that is to cut the tax breaks that corporations get, the incentives they have for taking jobs overseas, reverse that and instead give a tax incentive to those who manufacture in the United States. That, I think first and foremost.

Then we must invest in education to create the workforce of the future and invest in innovation to create jobs of the future. We have to be on the cutting edge. We have to be on the forefront of innovation in order to have an -- an advantage internationally. But again, first and foremost, stop the hemorrhaging.

DOBBS: $125 billion, expensive. Where will you get the money?

PELOSI: Paid for -- with all of our Democratic proposals, it is paid for. We would get the $125 billion from cutting back some of the tax breaks for multinational corporations. This is in stark contrast to the Republican proposal that they have out there which will cost $350 billion over a ten-year period.

Of that $250 billion, a quarter of a trillion dollars will be added to the deficit, be added to the deficit. Quarter of a trillion of it will not be paid for. And it does not stop the flow of jobs overseas, does not create new jobs in the U.S., does not invest in education and innovation and really does not do much, is not much help to America's working families.

DOBBS: Minority Leader, what -- because your party is not in control, what is the likelihood that you could move any of this legislation through?

PELOSI: Well, my hope that we can succeed springs from the need and urgency in our country. You talk to workers every night perhaps workers who participated in our presentation today. It's desperate. This is time for -- decision time for America. We either are going to decide in favor of our workforce, of maintaining a strong workforce and market, by the way, for U.S. products in our country, invest in our children's education so they can be part of the workforce for the future or we are just going to have laissez-faire, let the worker be damned and have the jobs flow overseas.

This year it will be about half a million jobs. The next year maybe 800,000 jobs. And this just -- the number just grows and grows. And when that happens, that not only undermines the worker, undermines that person's family, it destroys community. That's why I said earlier, we must not forget our American values and a sense of community is an American value.

DOBBS: This legislation that you have put forward, these initiatives, how important will they be and each of the congressional districts, as you enter the campaign this fall?

PELOSI: Well, I would hope, as I say, my hope springing from the need in the country and the -- the outcry from American workers that we could accomplish something even before the election. So it wouldn't even be a political issue. But if the Republicans turn a tin ear to the American worker, I think that American workers will register their discontent at the polls. What we will be putting forth, of course, is an agenda to grow the American economy to make us competitive worldwide by creating jobs here at home. To expand access to quality health care. To provide the best possible education for our children. To provide a clean and healthy environment in which they can thrive. Of course, provide for our strong national defense. And do all of this in a fiscally sound way. That will be part of our Democratic message to the American people. But jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs are central to it all.

DOBBS: Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, House minority leader, we thank you for being with us here.

PELOSI: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: Still ahead, the results of our poll tonight. But first a reminder. Check out our website for the complete list of companies we've confirmed to be exporting America. CNN.com/lou. We'll be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight. Somewhat lopsided to say the least. 89 percent of you say the PATRIOT Act violates personal freedoms. 11 percent say it is critical to our national security. Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. Qatar's oil minister will be my guest. We'll be talking about the politics of oil, the turmoil in the Middle East and the future of U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.

I'll also be joined by Democratic Congressman George Miller of California who'll be here to tell us why he says the Bush administration has failed millions of American workers. For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" coming up next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired June 16, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Wednesday, June 16. Here now for an hour of news, debate and opinion is Lou Dobbs.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening.

Iraqi insurgents today launched a bold attack against a U.S. base, killing two American soldiers and wounding nearly two dozen others. The attack came exactly two weeks before the United States is set to transfer power to the Iraqis. President Bush in a speech to American troops said insurgents are likely to launch more attacks in the weeks ahead.

Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has the report -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, as the countdown to the hand-over of sovereignty continues, the violence level in Iraq continues to increase.

Today, the deadliest attack in a town 50 miles north of Baghdad, Balad, where the U.S. has a logistics base. Three U.S. soldiers were killed. Twenty-five other people were wounded, including two civilian workers, the military said, when that rocket slammed into the logistics base.

It was one of several attacks today, including attacks against the oil pipeline and also a mortar that exploded in the green zone in Baghdad, a surge of attacks as that turnover of sovereignty continues.

Today, speaking to U.S. troops around the world in remarks beamed from the U.S. Central Command headquarters at McDill Air Force Base in Tampa, Florida, President Bush said the U.S. will not be deterred.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We can expect more attacks in the coming few weeks, more car bombs, more suiciders, more attempts on the lives of Iraqi officials, but our coalition is standing firm. New Iraq leaders are not intimidated. I will not yield, and neither will the leaders of Iraq!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: Meanwhile, the United States says that there are fresh intelligence indicators that the town of Fallujah, an insurgent stronghold, may be the place where the man that the Pentagon believes is behind most of these attacks, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, is holding up. He's been believed to be in this area. But Pentagon sources say there is fresh indication that he's there.

Fallujah, of course, is where the United States tried to get creative in creating a Fallujah brigade of former Iraqi soldiers and officers to restore the peace, and now Pentagon officials privately conceding that was an experiment that's simply not working out -- Lou.

DOBBS: Jamie, thank you.

Jamie McIntyre, senior Pentagon correspondent.

Insurgents have stopped all of Iraq's oil exports with a series of attacks against Iraqi oil facilities. Saboteurs today attacked a key pipeline in southern Iraq for the second straight day. The loss of the oil revenue is a huge setback for Iraq as it struggles to rebuild its economy.

Kitty Pilgrim reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Iraqi oil exports have been cut off. Terrorist attacks knocked out southern pipelines and oil exports through Iraq's two offshore terminals in the South. The fire from the attack caused heavy damage.

The attacks escalated this week, but there have been some 130 attacks over the past seven months. The purpose: to sabotage oil and oil revenues meant for funding the new government and reconstruction.

DAN SENOR, COALITION PROVISIONAL AUTHORITY: It is an effort to basically economically impoverish the Iraqi people, wreak havoc in this country in the lead-up to the June 30 hand-over.

PILGRIM: Several pipeline attacks over a three-day period last week caused power disruptions. Oil was being exported from southern Iraq. Just after the war, terrorist attacks targeted the main pipelines in the North of Iraq that ran from Kirkuk to the Port of Ceyhan in Turkey. The average production along that line, some 250,000 barrels a day, went down to virtually zero.

Fleets of coalition ships are now protecting Iraq's offshore oil terminals in the South which were targeted in April by suicide bombers. Those attacks failed.

Now the highly optimistic projections for Iraq's oil revenues look less and less likely. Output even before the latest attacks was already lagging, averaging 1.8 million barrels a day.

JOHN KINGSTON, PLATT GLOBAL ENERGY: The Iraqis were hoping to hit production of three million barrels a day by the end of the year. That's not going to happen. They were looking to go to four million barrels a day over the next couple of years. That's not going to happen unless they get $10 billion to $20 billion in investment, and no outside companies are going to invest that kind of money in that sort of chaos.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: Well, coalition officials were optimistic, saying they could restore at least partial oil flow in days. Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi says that $200 million have been stolen out of the pockets of Iraqi people because of lost oil revenues -- Lou.

DOBBS: Kitty, thank you.

There is no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda collaborated in any way in attacks against the United States. That is one of the findings of a new report by the commission investigating the September 11 attacks. The commission also revealed new information about al Qaeda's preparations for those attacks.

National Security Correspondent David Ensor reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: With chilling new detail, the 9/11 commission staff laid out what it called "a highly competent flexible plot to attack the United States." Commissioners were dismayed.

JAMES THOMPSON, 9/11 COMMISSION MEMBER: How in the world do we ever expect to win this war, and, if the war is not winnable in the traditional sense, how do we contain or checkmate this enemy?

ENSOR: Among the revelations, that mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed originally proposed hijacking 10 planes in the U.S. to hit targets on the West Coast, too, and that he would personally land the 10th after just the men on board had been killed in order to address the world's media; that the plotters argued about whether Flight 93 that crashed in Pennsylvania should target the U.S. Capitol or the White House -- Osama bin Laden wanted to hit the White House; the pilots thought the Capitol would be an easier target -- that one of the plotters says Zacarias Moussaoui was to have been the fourth pilot if Ziad Jarrah dropped out, as he was threatening to do; that original plans called for attacks in Asia and the U.S. simultaneously; that bin Laden wanted to attack back in 2000, but was told the hijackers weren't yet ready; that all 19 of the hijackers attended al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan.

DOUGLAS MACEACHIN, 9/11 COMMISSION STAFF: The camps created a climate in which trainees and other personnel were free to think creatively about ways to commit mass murder.

ENSOR: The commission made public photos of Mohammed Atta withdrawing money in Virginia April 4 and spoke of him using his cellphone in Florida April 6 through 11. So he couldn't have been in Prague meeting an Iraqi intelligence officer April 9 as administration officials had suggested. And, in fact, the commission said Iraq was not involved in 9/11.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: The commission also says there's intelligence suggesting al Qaeda may have played a role in the Khobar Towers bombing of 1996 that killed 19 U.S. servicemen in Saudi Arabia, apparently, in that case, cooperating with Hezbollah and Iran-- Lou.

DOBBS: David, the 9/11 commission holds its final public hearing tomorrow. What can we expect?

ENSOR: The hearing, Lou, is about what was going on in the skies on September 11. So the witnesses will be from the military, from the Federal Aviation Administration. One commissioner told me that we're going to have urban myths dispelled. One of them is the myth that there was an order given by the White House to shoot down civilian airliners and that the military was ready to carry out that order. Apparently, that is not true -- Lou.

DOBBS: David, thank you very much. David Ensor.

After the September 11 commission publishes the report, the White House insists that Saddam Hussein did have links with al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN BARTLETT, WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Just because al Qaeda and Iraq may not have collaborated in a specific attack of 9/11 does not mean that there's not a relationship or a past relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda.

The fact that Al-Zarqawi was in Baghdad before the invasion demonstrates that he was giving safe haven to al Qaeda affiliates. People have testified to this issue, too. Make no mistake about it: Saddam Hussein had ties to terror.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: The White House is also focusing now on Iran and what it says is Tehran's plans to build nuclear weapons. The International Atomic Energy Agency is considering a resolution deploring Iran's failure to cooperate with international inspections.

The Iranian president today threatened to restart Iran's program to enrich uranium if the U.N. agency passes such a resolution. Iran says it wants to produce enriched uranium to power nuclear reactors, not to build nuclear weapons.

Coming up next here, the new multibillion dollar Homeland Security bill. One congressman says it's still not enough to protect our airports, our borders and our chemical plants. Congressman Martin Sabo joins us.

Also, the growing debate over whether the PATRIOT Act threatens our civil liberties. Tonight, in "Face Off," we talk with two experts with opposing opinions. And Democrats offer a plan to stop the shipment of American jobs to cheap foreign labor markets to create millions of new jobs. House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi its our guest.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The economy has added more than a million jobs in the past four months, but more than eight million Americans are still unemployed and companies continue to send tens of thousands of American jobs to cheap overseas labor markets. Congressional Democrats today unveiled $125 billion plan that would put Americans back to work, spur innovation, raise education in the critical areas of math, science and engineering.

Lisa Sylvester reports from Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): House Democrats acknowledge globalization is here to stay, but they say it should not come at the expense of hard-working Americans.

REP. GEORGE MILLER (D), CALIFORNIA: We're just not sure that American tax dollars ought to be used to help pay for those jobs overseas, as opposed to giving tax breaks to corporations to create jobs in the United States.

SYLVESTER: The Democratic jobs plan replaces tax breaks that encourage exporting of jobs with tax cuts to help American manufacturers and small businesses: $40 billion to promote research and development, a $3,000 tax credit for businesses for every American job created in the next two years, additional assistance to displaced workers, and new fair trade agreements. The plan would cost $125 billion, paid for with money that used to go to corporate subsidies.

The Democratic proposal is in stark contrast to the Republican jobs bill that offers additional tax breaks to multinational corporations. Republican supporters say their bill will make American corporations more globally competitive. Democrats rip their plan as another example of corporate welfare.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: And there doesn't seem like there's a bill that can come down the pike that they will not figure out a way to reward their special interest friends at the expense of middle-class working Americans.

SYLVESTER: Democrats say their proposal will help people like Ron Larson, a laid-off high-tech help consultant. He has gone through his 401(k) savings and doesn't have any bright job prospects.

RON LARSON, LOST JOB TO OUTSOURCING: Anybody looking for a 57- year-old apprentice, I'm available. I'm willing to do just about anything.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVESTER: This Thursday and Friday, the House is expected to take up the Republican jobs bill and the Democratic alternative offered by Congressman Rangel -- Lou.

DOBBS: Lisa, thank you.

We'll have much more on the legislation. I'll be joined by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi who has introduced the new plan to create jobs in this country and to stop the exporting of jobs to cheap overseas labor markets.

This all brings us to tonight's thought: "The work of the individual still remains the spark that moves mankind ahead even more than teamwork." That from the father of the modern helicopter, Igor Sikorsky.

We've been reporting extensively here on the multibillion-dollar Homeland Security contract awarded to Accenture, a company in a foreign country, Bermuda. That contract has angered many Americans, including some in Congress, but Bermuda-based Accenture also has a lot of friends in Congress, as you might suspect, and, last night, they came to the Accenture's defense.

Peter Viles reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In Washington, there is rhetoric and there is clout.

REP. MARION BERRY (D), ARKANSAS: Can you imagine turning border control over to a foreign company? Doesn't that make a lot of sense? Not only is it a foreign company that we're turning the control of the borders over to, but we're paying them with tax dollars.

VILES: Last night, Republicans on the House Rules Committee had the clout, and they protected that Accenture border contract which could ultimately could be worth $10 billion. Democrats are still pushing to block similar contracts in the future. No Homeland Security contracts for so-called expatriate companies, companies like Tyco that have left the United States.

REP. ROSA DELAURO (D), CONNECTICUT: These contracts are wrong, that they do not reflect the values in this country. They do a disservice to every law-abiding company in America by putting them at a competitive disadvantage simply because they hold on to their American passport.

VILES: House Democrats say so-called corporate runaways received more than $1 billion in Defense and Homeland Security contracts in 2002. Leading the list, McDermott International of Panama, followed by Tyco of Bermuda, Accenture of Bermuda, and Foster Wheeler also of Bermuda.

But Accenture says it doesn't even belong on that list because it was never based in America. It cites a 2002 GAO report that says prior to becoming incorporated in Bermuda, it operated as a series of partnerships with a Swiss coordinating entity. Further, many in Congress defend the Accenture deal. This was Jim Kolbe of Arizona.

REP. JIM KOLBE (R), ARIZONA: The idea is that somehow Accenture is avoiding paying U.S. taxes and has some sort of unfair competitive advantage. But that's just simply not true. Neither the employees of Accenture are avoiding paying taxes nor is the company avoiding paying any taxes on any of its obligations or any of its profits that are made here in the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: Two years ago, Congress went on record in very big numbers objecting to security contracts for expatriate firms, that vote was disregarded by congressional leaders in a conference committee, leaving us back where we are now, Lou.

DOBBS: And Congressman Kolbe pointing out -- praising Accenture. As I recall, Accenture was formerly Andersen Consulting, Andersen itself based in Chicago.

VILES: Based in Chicago. That's the analysis of House Democrats. Accenture points to this GAO report which does not make mention of the Chicago connection. This is something the lawyers will figure out, I'm sure, Lou.

DOBBS: And, meanwhile, we're left to figure out Washington.

Pete, thank you.

Peter Viles.

We've invited, of course, representatives from Accenture to appear on this program a number of times. To date, they have declined our invitation. We have and are now, extending that invitation. We're going to leave it open to representatives, the executives of Accenture. We'd be delighted to have them join us. We've also invited Illinois Governor Ron Blagojevich to join us on this program. He has declined our invitation as well. All we want to do is talk about the merits. We'll keep trying.

Six people tonight are going for an ambitious world record. They are at this very moment trying to complete the longest ferris wheel ride ever. These six people are more than halfway through a three-day ride on the Colossus. That's at Six Flags St. Louis.

You're probably wondering just what is the longest ride on record? I know you're wondering that. I'm burning with curiosity myself. According to "The Guinness Book of World Records," no record exists for a continuous ferris wheel ride. It appears that we're going to fix all of that.

Coming up next, we'll have a look at some of your thoughts. And, in our Face Off tonight, has the PATRIOT Act gone too far? The shaky boundary between personal rights and national security. And later, soliciting campaign contributions from who? Illegal aliens. One congressman's campaign has done just that. We'll have that story tonight in Broken Borders.

And he does his job with dedication and pride. The inspiring story tonight of Jerry Mandetto in our continuing series celebrating the men and women of this country who make it work. "America Works" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion, Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: Congress passed the PATRIOT Act after the terrorist attacks of September 11 to enhance this country's ability to fight the war on terror. Law-enforcement officials say it's been a tremendous help in their fight against terrorism. Civil libertarians, however, say it goes simply too far, and that debate is the subject of tonight's Face Off.

Joining me now are James Dempsey, executive director of the Center for Democracy and Technology. He says the PATRIOT Act does go too far. And former federal prosecutor Pat Woodward disagree. Both men join us tonight from our studios in Washington, D.C.

Good to have you here.

PAT WOODWARD, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Good evening.

JAMES DEMPSEY, CENTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND TECHNOLOGY: Hello, Lou.

DOBBS: Let me first begin, if I may, with you, Jim. How important has the PATRIOT Act been in our ability to fight successfully the war on terror?

DEMPSEY: Well, there are some good things in the PATRIOT Act. Clearly, our laws needed to be revisited, and there are some positive changes there, particularly promoting the sharing of information between the intelligence and the law-enforcement agencies which is important.

But really, if you look before 9/11, a lot of the failures had to do with turf fights between the agencies, failure to connect the dots. If you really look at it, the legal powers were there even before 9/11. They weren't used very well.

DOBBS: Do you agree, Pat?

WOODWARD: I do. I'd like to follow up on that point. The judges now under the PATRIOT Act can issue nationwide search warrants, for example. They couldn't do that before. So the PATRIOT Act, in my view, has really made law enforcement more efficient more than expanding the government's role. DOBBS: Jim, what is your principal concern? Is it the -- is it Section 215? Precisely what is your strongest objection to the PATRIOT Act?

DEMPSEY: I would say there are 10 or 12 provisions in that 300- page bill that are of concern. The pendulum swung too far. Congress acted in haste. Section 215, which you allude to, gives agents with no court approval, no court supervision, access to any business records, possibly encompassing entire databases of information.

There is another provision in there that allows secret searches by the government with a court order, but going in secretly, not telling you until weeks or months afterward that they've been in your house, and that applies...

DOBBS: The sneak and...

DEMPSEY: The so-called sneak and peek. Exactly. And that applies to ordinary criminal cases, not just terrorism cases.

DOBBS: Does that concern you, Pat?

WOODWARD: Well, the government's had that power for years before 9/11, before the PATRIOT Act. So I'm not so much concerned by that, because you do have judicial oversight with the sneak and peek.

I would like to compliment Jim on a letter he wrote back in November to Chairman Roberts about the National Security Letters. These are basically administrative subpoenas that the FBI issues, and that...

DOBBS: Senator -- we might point out here Senator Pat Roberts, the chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.

WOODWARD: That's correct. And, basically, there's a gray area where if some one gets an NSL, they're told not to tell anyone, and it's not like a grand jury subpoena where you can move to quash. But there are options and people don't realize that they can move under seal perhaps to challenge those NSLs. So I think that Congress does need to address this murky area.

DEMPSEY: It's a question of checks and balances. We need to put some checks and balances, some oversight and accountability back into these powers. Don't take the powers away from the government, but make sure that they are subject to appropriate controls.

DOBBS: The SAFE Act proposed by Senator Larry Craig of Idaho -- you're thoughts on that, Jim?

DEMPSEY: Well, it's a bipartisan piece of legislation, both Republican and Democrats. It's also been introduced in the House, and that would do precisely what I think is needed, which is to put some of those checks and balances back in there.

For example, on National Security letters, give an opportunity to challenge those, require a greater focus to the government efforts. We don't have to really prevent the government from doing what they need to do, but we want them to be focused and subject to appropriate controls, and that's what the SAFE Act would do.

DOBBS: We should point out that Senator Craig is a conservative Republican.

Pat, your thoughts? Were you supportive of Senator Craig's legislation?

WOODWARD: Well, let me just say that I think that you have a Republican senator putting it out there. It makes the chances of it passing much more realistic. So I would sign on to that, and, hopefully, we can tweak it around the edges. But I think basically the PATRIOT Act makes law enforcement more efficient and doesn't necessarily expand its power.

DOBBS: Let me ask you this because, as I listen to both of you coming at this from quite different concerns, different experiences, I hear great agreement between the two of you about the PATRIOT Act, both its effectiveness, its efficiency and its necessity. Am I missing something, Pat? Jim?

WOODWARD: I'll defer to Jim.

DEMPSEY: Well, again, we have a real threat that this country faces, absolutely no doubt about it, and the government needs strong tools. But both in order to protect our constitutional rights, our privacy, and in order to ensure that the government is doing its job effectively, we need controls, checks, balances.

I didn't hear very many civil libertarians saying don't give the government these powers for terrorism cases. What we object to is the spillover into the ordinary criminal-justice system. The excessive secrecy that surrounds some of these powers and the lack of judicial review.

DOBBS: Pat, you have the final word.

WOODWARD: Well, thank you, Lou.

I would focus on these National Security Letters. I know there's pending legislation actually suing people at the FBI, and I do think that needs to be resolved so that people know what their options are when they get one of these NSLs.

DOBBS: We thank you very much, James Dempsey, Pat Woodward, for being here.

WOODWARD: Thank you, Lou.

DEMPSEY: Thanks. Take care.

DOBBS: That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight. The question, "do you believe the PATRIOT Act is a violation of personal freedoms or critical to our national security?" Please cast your vote at cnn.com/Lou. We'll have results for you later in the broadcast. The Coast Guard today released dramatic nighttime video of a deadly boat trip Saturday off the coast of Puerto Rico. Ninety-four migrants were aboard the homemade boat which was headed from the Dominican Republic to Puerto Rico.

The Coast Guard arrived on the scene just as the boat began to sink. The crew tried to save as many as possible by tossing them life jackets and rafts. Most were saved, but three people did drown. The survivors were returned to the Dominican Republic.

The Coast Guard said the case highlights why they work day and night against illegal immigration.

The debate over illegal aliens and their place, if any, in a U.S. congressional election has actually become a central issue in at least one campaign.

Casey Wian reports tonight from Provo, Utah.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You wouldn't think illegal aliens would be a hot campaign topic in a Provo, Utah, congressional race. It's been a simmering issue since Republican Congressman Chris Cannon sponsored an illegal alien amnesty bill.

Now it's boiling over because of his recent appearance on a local Spanish language radio station. A campaign staffer pleaded with illegal aliens to break the law and funnel money to his campaign through legal residents or their children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If you are undocumented, you must find -- we welcome this money, but you have to find someone who is legal in order to donate the money.

CRAIG HOLMAN, PUBLIC CITIZEN: It appears fairly obvious that they did cross the line of federal campaign finance law and actively solicited contributions from illegal immigrants.

WIAN: At least, one supporter of Cannon's Republican primary opponent, Matt Throckmorton has filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission.

MATT THROCKMORTON, CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: I'm not concerned that he's going to go out and raise $1,000 through illegal aliens, my biggest concern is this really demonstrates a pattern. Couple years ago Congressman Cannon gave a speech in which he stated, that Utahan's don't often make a distinction between legal and illegal. I beg to differ we do.

WIAN: The controversy revived Throckmorton's campaign, which has been trailing in fundraising and in the polls.

DAVID MAGLERY, BRIGHAM YOUNG UNIV.: Oh, it's a major mistake. It takes the immigration issue, which was possibly a secondary issue in the campaign, and puts it to the front page of the newspapers in Salt Lake City and throughout the district.

WIAN: In a statement, Cannon said, "it is ludicrous to suggest that my campaign would condone voting by noncitizens or contributions by foreign nationals." Cannon added he clarified some of his staff member's comments later in the radio broadcast.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WIAN: Even if Cannon survives Tuesday's primary challenge some here say the controversy could hurt him in the general election even against a relatively unknown Democratic challenger in a district that's one of the heaviest Republican districts in the entire country -- Lou.

DOBBS: Casey, thank you. Remarkable. Casey porting from Provo, Utah.

Now, taking a look at some of "Your Thoughts" on the issue of broken borders.

And Henry Weintraub, of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. "When an illegal is apprehended crossing the border, why not provide a bottle of water, a sandwich, and send them back on a bus. Why must they be provided with a day in court. They are illegal by definition.

And Dave Milam of Boones Mill, Virginia, "Why is the U.S. government so willing to patrol other nations border, yet unwilling to secure our own?

Al, Pasadena, California, "Just think how many more jobs the Bush administration has created now that U.S. Border Patrol uniforms have the label made in Mexico. I agree with T.J. Bonner, president of the National Border Patrol Council, it's just the wrong thing to do.

And Elizabeth Montanya of Springfield, Virginia, "I am led that Americans including private citizens, the administration and the U.S. Congress are not appalled by the outsourcing of the security of our borders to a foreign firm. Isn't it bad enough that we have the largest trade deficit with the very countries where we are outsourcing our jobs. Now we have 10 to $15 billion of American taxpayer money going to a foreign firm. Have we lost our senses?"

Send us your comments to loudobbs@cnn.com. We'll share more of "Your Thoughts" later here tonight.

Also ahead, a Congressman Martin Sabo, he joins us to talk about the multibillion dollar Homeland Security bill that he says has "serious flaws."

Also tonight a massive effort to save American jobs. House minority leader, Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi joins me.

And "America Works" tonight. We celebrate the men and women of this country who make America work. A man on a joyride after three decades on the job. Stay with us!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: As we reported earlier tonight on the Accenture legislation part of a $32 billion Homeland Security appropriation bill. My guest tonight says the entire legislation has serious flaws. Congressman Martin Sabo says it fails to provide enough funding for local police and so-called first responders. And the Congressman says the bill doesn't do enough to secure our nation's chemical plants nor our borders.

Congressman Sabo is the ranking Democrat on the House Appropriation Subcommittee on Homeland Security, joining us tonight from Capitol Hill.

Congressman, good to have you here.

REP. MARTIN SABO (D), MINNESOTA: Good to be with you.

DOBBS: How, in your judgment, how much more money is required to meet the level of security you would like to see?

SABO: You know, one can have an endless number, but I think if one could add $3 billion to next year's bill you could fill many of the most serious gaps in the bill.

DOBBS: Where would you put that -- I'm sorry.

SABO: Where would I put the money?

In a variety of places. One, I would not cut funding for local police and fire and emergency responders. I think that is foolish. I would make sure that we inspect more of the cargo that goes on airplanes -- planes with passengers. I would increase our border protection, particularly in our northern border where -- where 2,000 agents less than what the PATRIOT Act required. Then I would put additional attention to such things as our chemical plants, some of our border or our port facilities. And our inspection, containers coming into this country.

I think those would be the most crucial things. And let me put -- you know, when we talk about adding $3 billion, that's a lots of money to the normal budget. But just today, we in Appropriations, we added $25 billion to next year's defense budget for Iraq and Afghanistan. And all of us know that that is only a beginning of the extra cost that's more likely to be 50 billion and 60 billion. So we spent billions and billions of dollars for national security outside of this country. When much more modest expenditures could have a significant impact in this country. And we should be doing that.

DOBBS: Well, since you raised that question, Congressman, let me ask you as one of our viewers wrote in tonight to say, the United States is so eager to defend the borders of other countries, why is the United States government so reluctant to defend and protect our own?

Let me ask you that question. SABO: I don't have a good answer for that. We clearly should be doing more. But the administration has not had the same focus and paid the same attention to dealing with Homeland Security issues in this country as they have in dealing with some of the external threats.

DOBBS: Amongst the amendments, you proposed one to significantly increase the inspection of cargo. That was defeated. What is the next step for you?

It's that the end of discussion for you on that issue?

SABO: No. I expect we'll have an amendment on the House floor. And we'll see how the votes go. But that issue remains an important one and a crucial one. And I think most of the public is unaware that most of the cargo on the passenger planes is uninspected.

DOBBS: And I think much of the public certainly was unaware, perhaps until even last night, that almost 11,000 border patrol agents have been ordered basically to step aside. They have no apprehension responsibilities for illegal aliens crossing our borders. To me, frankly, that is shocking.

Judging from the response of our viewers, they found it shocking. And frankly -- if I can use the word disgusting. How concerned are you about the low morale of the border patrol, the fact there aren't sufficient numbers of border patrol officers to protect our borders and that they're not being used in the way one would expect someone with the name -- title border patrol agent to be used.

SABO: I'm not all that familiar. I think this was somebody with southern border. So, I'm not all that familiar with that. On the northern border we've been told under the PATRIOT Act that we should have about 6,900 border inspectors, we're 2,000 short of that. Clearly it needs additional resources to add those people. And it's important to have those additional people working. If -- if folks had limited capacity to do their job on the southern border that clearly is an issue we should deal with.

DOBBS: Congressman Sabo, we thank you for being with us tonight?

SABO: Good to be with you.

DOBBS: Unbelievable development tonight in the fallout from California's energy crisis. Enron is accused of overcharging the state of California billions of dollars for energy in 2000 and 2001. Now, the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, FERC says California should repay $270 million to Enron and other energy companies. The refunds cover energy that California bought above market prices from Enron and then resold to the company. California's attorney general is demanding, as you might expect, that FERC reverse that order. He says it's adding insult to injury. And I think personally he has a very good case to make.

Coming up next, billions of dollars in remittances leave this country each year. All of that money headed for Mexico. Citigroup has a new plan, a new product to make it easier for that money to cross the border. Christine Romans will have the story.

And in our continuing story this week, "America Works" in which we honor and celebrate the men and women that make this country great, we introduce you to a man who spent three decades making sure you have the ride of your life. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Well the market didn't do much today. Indexes barely changed on Wall Street, in fact. But some changes at the nation's largest bank, it's got a new product for millions of Mexican immigrants in this country, including illegal aliens. Christine Romans is here with entrepreneurialism, innovation at its questionable best.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Lou, illegal aliens in this country gaining a foothold in financial legitimacy. Citigroup is offering what it calls binational credit cards. All you need is a picture I.D., proof of U.S. address, secure with a few hundred bucks and family members in Mexico can draw from it, use it to go shopping; put dollars on the card here, draw pesos from it there.

Citigroup says it wants to serve the U.S. Hispanic market and it wants to strengthen ties between Mexicans on both sides of the border. On whether this service is targeted to illegal aliens, Citigroup says "immigration is not our realm of responsibility."

Making money, obviously, is. Regardless of Citibank's other responsibilities, it estimates 60 percent of the immigrants in the country are from Mexico. Mexican workers send about $1 billion a month to Mexico -- $5 charge on every $200 transaction, a $29 annual fee, the potential, is enormous, Lou. All you need is a photo I.D., a proof of a U.S. address, and there you go, your brand new all to yourself credit card.

DOBBS: Do you know what this card's is called.

ROMANS: Banamex U.S. credit card.

DOBBS: It's got such creative possibilities.

What did Citigroup say, again, about what they were trying to do across the border there?

ROMANS: Well, they would like to increase cross border -- strengthen ties between Mexicans here and in Mexico.

DOBBS: See it as their responsibility to be involved in that ambassadorial effort, but not in order to maintain immigration policy?

ROMANS: Immigration, apparently, not in their realm of responsibility.

DOBBS: Realm of responsibility. Terrific, Christine thank you.

ROMANS: Your welcome. DOBBS: It just gets better and better, doesn't it?

Taking a look, now, at more of your thoughts. Many of you wrote in about the proposed tax breaks for corporate America

Mary Barnett of West Palm Beach, Florida, "just when I think I've heard it all, I watch your show and am amazed again and again by the enormity of the corporate greed that propels our legislatures, and therefore, our country. They turn away from protecting our borders and our jobs, yet they boast of high productivity and grant more huge tax cuts to corporations in the name of keeping America competitive."

Shawn in Boca Raton, Florida, "Lou, please explain to me why companies have more rights than individual citizens in this country?"

Many of you also wrote in about the Supreme Court decision to preserve "Under God" and in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Jeanene Green of Indianapolis, Indiana, "the phrase 'under God' in the Pledge of Allegiance seems to be broad enough to apply to whatever religion is espoused. Those who believe there is no God are a small minority, and it seems to me they could tell their children simply not to include those words when they say the pledge."

Gail Rubio of Brea, California, "Lou, we can have our films, plays, printed material filled to running over with four letter words, pornographic scenes, murder, rape, pillage and war, but lest we offend the few, we may not have a three letter word, God, in our Pledge of Allegiance."

Well, the good news is that we may have that word in our Pledge of Allegiance. Send us your thoughts on all of the issues we cover here, loudobbs@cnn.com. We love to hear from you.

Tonight, we continue our week-long celebration of the American worker. Tonight we introduce you to one of the hard-working people in this country. For the past 30 years, Jerry Mendetto has maintained a New York City landmark, but the landmark is not a statue nor building, Mendetto works at a place where people come for a good scare and a good scream. Coney Island Cyclone, it's one of the nation's oldest and biggest roller coasters. Bill Tucker has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For 77 years it stood on Coney Island, a mecca to thrill seekers.

The Coney Island Cyclone, one half mile of wooden rollercoaster glory. 12 drops, 16 changes of direction.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At its fastest, I'd say it's about 55.

TUCKER: And all original equipment, maintained by this man, Jerry Mendetto.

JERRY MENDETTO, CYCLONE OPERATOR: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the track has to be walked from start to finish. Another guy comes in with a helper and then go over the whole car, that was the day before. All the seats are taken out, everything is checked underneath and then put back together. And then we send it for a test run.

TUCKER: It all comes down to gravity and the control of force.

MENDETTO: This wheel here is what keeps you from going off the track. There is a lip that comes out. We call it the cap. These wheels ride on, that keeps you down. These are your running wheels up here.

TUCKER: OK.

MENDETTO: And that's what keeps you going.

TUCKER: But the Cyclone is not a ride as much as it seems to be a devotion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's great. It's awesome. It's fun. It's exhilarating.

MENDETTO: You'd be surprised how many people, 20 years on me. I'm 60. That come up here and, as excited as those children.

Sometimes you have people, they argue over the front seat. And some times it turns into a fight. Because I was here first. You were here first. Kid stuff. But adults are the worst. The adults they act like children. Oh, forget about it. And women for some reason. They can get their husband's in a lot of trouble over that front seat.

TUCKER (on camera): For over 3/4 century the cyclone has the set the standard for many in terms of rollercoaster rides. How long will it survive? Well, as long as Jerry is around to maintain it and there are a lot off adrenaline addicts in search of a cheap thrill. This ride is safe.

(voice-over): Did I mention that in all his 30 years, Jerry has never once ridden the Cyclone. Bill Tucker, CNN, Coney Island, New York!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Does he have a great job or what? Thank you, Bill Tucker.

Coming up next here, Democrats say they have a new plan to save American jobs. House Minority Leader Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi leading the way. She's our guest next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: As we reported House Democrats today unveiled a $125 billion ten-year plan to create a "Protect American Jobs." House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi says the Democratic-sponsored plan is intended to wake up a sleeping administration. Pelosi today said, quote, "Americans know that trade is good for our country when trade means we're exporting American goods not exporting American jobs. The global marketplace is changing and America must change with it but as we increase international trade, we must never trade our values."

The House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi joins me now from Capitol Hill. Good to have you with us, Leader.

My pleasure, thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: This is a broad program. Tax incentives, taking back some money as well from corporate America. Incentivizing Corporate America to create jobs. Which do you think is the most important measure in the short term?

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), MINORITY LEADER: Well, first we have to stop the hemorrhaging of U.S. jobs going overseas. And the way to do -- one way to do that is to cut the tax breaks that corporations get, the incentives they have for taking jobs overseas, reverse that and instead give a tax incentive to those who manufacture in the United States. That, I think first and foremost.

Then we must invest in education to create the workforce of the future and invest in innovation to create jobs of the future. We have to be on the cutting edge. We have to be on the forefront of innovation in order to have an -- an advantage internationally. But again, first and foremost, stop the hemorrhaging.

DOBBS: $125 billion, expensive. Where will you get the money?

PELOSI: Paid for -- with all of our Democratic proposals, it is paid for. We would get the $125 billion from cutting back some of the tax breaks for multinational corporations. This is in stark contrast to the Republican proposal that they have out there which will cost $350 billion over a ten-year period.

Of that $250 billion, a quarter of a trillion dollars will be added to the deficit, be added to the deficit. Quarter of a trillion of it will not be paid for. And it does not stop the flow of jobs overseas, does not create new jobs in the U.S., does not invest in education and innovation and really does not do much, is not much help to America's working families.

DOBBS: Minority Leader, what -- because your party is not in control, what is the likelihood that you could move any of this legislation through?

PELOSI: Well, my hope that we can succeed springs from the need and urgency in our country. You talk to workers every night perhaps workers who participated in our presentation today. It's desperate. This is time for -- decision time for America. We either are going to decide in favor of our workforce, of maintaining a strong workforce and market, by the way, for U.S. products in our country, invest in our children's education so they can be part of the workforce for the future or we are just going to have laissez-faire, let the worker be damned and have the jobs flow overseas.

This year it will be about half a million jobs. The next year maybe 800,000 jobs. And this just -- the number just grows and grows. And when that happens, that not only undermines the worker, undermines that person's family, it destroys community. That's why I said earlier, we must not forget our American values and a sense of community is an American value.

DOBBS: This legislation that you have put forward, these initiatives, how important will they be and each of the congressional districts, as you enter the campaign this fall?

PELOSI: Well, I would hope, as I say, my hope springing from the need in the country and the -- the outcry from American workers that we could accomplish something even before the election. So it wouldn't even be a political issue. But if the Republicans turn a tin ear to the American worker, I think that American workers will register their discontent at the polls. What we will be putting forth, of course, is an agenda to grow the American economy to make us competitive worldwide by creating jobs here at home. To expand access to quality health care. To provide the best possible education for our children. To provide a clean and healthy environment in which they can thrive. Of course, provide for our strong national defense. And do all of this in a fiscally sound way. That will be part of our Democratic message to the American people. But jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs are central to it all.

DOBBS: Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi, House minority leader, we thank you for being with us here.

PELOSI: Thank you, Lou.

DOBBS: Still ahead, the results of our poll tonight. But first a reminder. Check out our website for the complete list of companies we've confirmed to be exporting America. CNN.com/lou. We'll be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight. Somewhat lopsided to say the least. 89 percent of you say the PATRIOT Act violates personal freedoms. 11 percent say it is critical to our national security. Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. Qatar's oil minister will be my guest. We'll be talking about the politics of oil, the turmoil in the Middle East and the future of U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.

I'll also be joined by Democratic Congressman George Miller of California who'll be here to tell us why he says the Bush administration has failed millions of American workers. For all of us here, good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" coming up next.

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