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American Morning
Destructive Power of Terrorist Bombings in Baghdad Seemingly Greater by Day; Marion Jones Vowing Not to Answer Questions For What She Calls a Kangaroo Court
Aired June 17, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The destructive power of terrorist bombings in Baghdad seemingly greater by the day. This morning more than 170 dead and wounded.
An Olympic fighting to clear her name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARION JONES, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: I have never, ever failed a drug test.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Marion Jones vowing not to answer questions for what she calls a kangaroo court.
And the high water along the Ohio River carrying just about everything downstream on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome everybody. Some of the stories that are making headlines this morning: the final session in the 9/11 hearings set to being in just about an hour.
A number of myths expected to be dispelled today, including that the military was ready to shoot down civilian airplanes on the day of the attacks.
We're going to talk to two of the commissioners about that. Also some of the -- I think it's fair to call them stunning -- details that have come out in the last day or so concerning the terrorist plot. More details.
HEMMER: Also from Saudi Arabia, officials there say they're doing everything possible to find an American contractor held hostage in the Kingdom. Time may be running out.
A deadline set for tomorrow on Friday. A lot to talk about on this matter today, including looking at what the Saudis might be doing behind the scenes. All that's coming up in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, has the National Rifle Association found a way to get around restrictions on buying campaign ads by starting its own news show? We'll take a look at that debate just ahead.
HEMMER: Our Jack Cafferty, good morning to you.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Colorado about to become the first state in the union that will allow members of the jury in criminal trials to ask questions of witnesses. Could have implications for a guy named Kobe Bryant. We'll talk about it.
HEMMER: Intriguing. Thank you, Jack.
Let's start this morning in Iraq yet again today. Another deadly car bomb exploding there in Baghdad. At least 35 said to be dead, well over 100 injured outside an Iraqi army recruitment center.
With the handover now only 13 days away, violent attacks occurring by the day. Our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, now live in Baghdad with more there -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Bill, the Ministry of Health here telling us that amongst the wounded are 135 people now in hospitals -- 138 rather, including 35 dead.
According to U.S. military officials who are --quickly came to the scene after the explosion, it was a suicide car bomb attack, it was an SUV we're told, a white sports utility vehicle, packed with artillery shells that caused all these injuries and damage.
It happened at the height of rush hour, 9 a.m. this morning, outside the recruitment center for the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps.
We're told by the military that those Iraqi recruits were actually inside, and that the biggest death toll and injuries were caused amongst ordinary Iraqis who were in the street.
They were taken, the injured and the dead, to two of the main hospitals in Baghdad. This is not the first car bomb attack, suicide bomb attack, this week. There was one on Monday.
That was directly targeted at foreigners, it was foreign contractors but, again, the bulk of those who were killed and wounded were Iraqis, and that does seem to be the trend right now, Bill.
HEMMER: Christiane Amanpour, more throughout the morning on that -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The U.S. military was not prepared to shoot down civilian aircraft on 9/11. A member of the commission investigating the attacks says that and other myths will be dispelled at today's final public hearing.
Many details that were not public knowledge came out of yesterday's hearing, including that al Qaeda originally planned to use 10 planes to attack targets on both U.S. coasts and that Osama bin Laden was directly involved in the decision making. He wanted to attack in May or July. Bin Laden also vetoed part of the original plan, calling for the attacks to be carried out in Asia at the same time as those in the United States.
And there was disagreement about whether Flight 93 should hit the White House or the Capitol. Two days before 9/11, there was still no firm target. Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania.
Readiness to deal with what was happening in the air that day will be covered today. Joining us this morning from Washington, D.C. to talk about all of this and today's final public hearing, two members of the 9/11 Commission -- commissioner John Lehman and commissioner Richard Ben-Veniste.
Gentlemen, good morning, nice to see both of you. Commissioner Lehman, we'll begin with you if we may.
Some of these details -- I don't think it's an exaggeration to call them just shocking -- the word about the 10 planes and the 10 different targets and the moving of the dates because some of the terrorists actually were not yet quite prepared to carry out the attacks.
Where did you get the bulk of this information from?
JOHN LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Well, this information was all for the most part in the intelligence community. Some of it has only come to light very recently in -- through interrogations and through other means.
But a lot of it was available -- has been available for a long time. There is good news and bad news in this -- these findings because the good news is that they weren't able to pull off the scale of the attack that was originally planned with 10 airplanes.
But the bad news is it demonstrates a -- an intelligence, a pragmatism, and a discipline of command from Osama that is truly impressive. It was he who made the judgments that the risk, reward was too high for some of the more ambitious targets and scaled it back to one that had a much higher probability of success.
Still complicated, still sophisticated, but very intelligently carried off.
O'BRIEN: So then Commissioner Ben-Veniste, what have you learned about al Qaeda in the wake of this? Obviously better organized than was first originally thought?
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Well, what we learned was that al Qaeda was willing to wait, they were patient. In fact, Osama bin Laden was more impatient than those who had operational control.
We learned a great deal about the organization coming up to today. We learned yesterday from the CIA that following the invasion of Iraq and subsequent events; recruitment for al Qaeda has jumped markedly. And yesterday I think we put to rest, hopefully, the false notion that Iraq was in some way involved in the planning of the 9/11 catastrophe.
O'BRIEN: I want to get back to that in one moment but first I want to ask you about the shooting down of the planes. There was a story that came out really right after the 9/11 attacks that said the military was on the verge of shooting down a civilian plane if they had to.
It now turns out that actually it seems like even though there are 50 minutes between when the first plane struck and everyone was aware it was a terror attack to when the last plane hit the Pentagon, that actually there was a large chunk of time, 15 minutes, when planes could have been put up and that didn't happen.
Was it a lack of preparedness, commissioner Lehman? Could better preparation have saved lives in all of this?
LEHMAN: Well I think that you'll be able to draw the conclusions today that there was -- there was -- there was considerable breakdown in command and control and especially in communications between the FAA and NORAD. But it's not true to say that there were no orders to shoot down.
In fact, because the command and control breakdowns, there were two sets of airplanes over the Capitol. The NORAD airplanes had no instructions, but the pilots maintained that they probably would have if they'd seen the airplane coming and had no instructions still shot it down.
On the other hand, there were Air National Guard airplanes up that were not even talking to the Air Force airplanes that were up and they had instructions to clear fire which meant that the pilots had the discretion to shoot -- shoot anything incoming.
So, it's a picture of lack of preparation between FAA and the Air Force and -- but would it have saved lives? I think that's -- I think had they been better trained and organized to cooperate, that it is possible that 77 might have been intercepted, but it was a very -- it would have been a very, very close call even in the best of cooperation.
O'BRIEN: Commissioner Ben-Veniste, I'll give you the last question this morning. And you were talking about it just a moment ago. A quote from the report is no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States. As you well know, this was a large part of the administration's message as the U.S. headed to war in Iraq.
So then are -- is your point that the administration lied to the American public, or are you saying that the commissioners had better access to intelligence than the administration did?
BEN-VENISTE: You know, this information seems to have crept into the public domain, indeed polls show that some 60 percent or so of the public believed that Iraq was responsible for 9/11. That just isn't the case, and indeed the president of the United States said so in September of last year.
And so it's mystifying, in fact, how this myth continues to be perpetrated, but the fact of the matter is that this bipartisan commission after 18 months of investigation has found no credible evidence that Iraq was involved.
In fact, the White House was provided in advance of yesterday's hearing, with a copy of our staff statement. They made no objection as to the facts contained therein.
O'BRIEN: Commissioner Ben-Veniste and commissioner Lehman joining us this morning. Gentlemen thanks, appreciate it.
This mornings hearing gets underway at the top of the hour. We're going to have live coverage when the joint chiefs chairman, General Richard Meyers, testifies, which we're expecting at 9:15 Eastern Time this morning -- Bill.
HEMMER: About 10 minutes past the hour. A world away from the Saudi Arabian kingdom the family of hostage Paul Johnson pleading now for his release, holding out hope despite an increasingly grim situation.
Johnson's son and sister spoke with Deborah Feyerick yesterday. Deb's live again this morning in New Jersey. Good morning there.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Well, American hostage rescuers have been sent to Saudi Arabia. They're trying to find Paul Johnson, and the government is saying it is doing everything humanly possible to try to bring him home safely. And while a top Saudi adviser describes the situation right now as grim -- as you say, the family is holding out hope.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: As the Friday deadline nears for American captive Paul Johnson, his mother remains secluded in New Jersey. Sick, frail, and unaware how bad her son's situation really is.
FEYERICK: Does she know that there is a 72-hour deadline?
DONNA MERAUX, PAUL JOHNSON'S SISTER: No she does not. We -- she has not viewed the video -- I told her that he's alive and that this is serious, but we did not discuss any demands with her because her health is fragile.
FEYERICK: Johnson's sister Donna says she has seen the tapes of other American hostages -- Daniel Pearl and Nicholas Berg -- but never for a moment did she believe her brother was in any danger.
You see the kidnappers, one is behind him, clearly one is there shooting the video -- what goes through your mind?
MERAUX: For me it's disbelief. My brother always felt safe in Saudi Arabia. He never feared living there. FEYERICK: Johnson's wife is still in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. The Lockheed Martin engineer was abducted from his car there Saturday.
PAUL JOHNSON III, JOHNSON'S SON: She's waiting for my father to come through the front door.
FEYERICK: A videotape released by the kidnappers makes two demands -- the withdrawal of all Westerners from the Arabian Peninsula, and the release of all al Qaeda prisoners in Saudi Arabia.
Otherwise, the kidnappers say they will kill Johnson Friday.
FEYERICK: What is the message that you have for your dad right now?
JOHNSON: I just want him brought home safely.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK (on camera): There will be a candlelight vigil tonight in Johnson's hometown, just behind the firehouse. Meantime, the State Department is urging all Americans to get out of Saudi Arabia -- Bill.
HEMMER: Deborah Feyerick in New Jersey this morning. Again, the deadline just a day away. The Saudi government vowing to do all it can to save Paul Johnson.
Bernard Haykel is a professor of Middle Eastern-Islamic studies at New York University. Our guest here now in New York.
Good morning, professor.
BERNARD HAYKEL, MIDDLE EASTERN AND ISLAMIC STUDIES EXPERT: Good morning.
HEMMER: What do you say to the family that would give them a sliver of hope at this point?
HAYKEL: Unfortunately, I really think that this man has really no chance unless he's found by Saudi security forces.
HEMMER: No chance of mercy on behalf of those who are keeping him?
HAYKEL: No, not at all. In fact...
HEMMER: Why would you say that?
HAYKEL: Because of the statements that they've put out on their Web site and the kinds of quotes that they've made.
I mean, they've talked explicitly about beheading and I -- I just don't think this group is likely to -- to -- to change its mind on this issue and also the name of the group is the Fallujah Company, the Fallujah Battalion.
They're emulating what's happening in Iraq. They're conscious of what's happening in Iraq and they're doing the same things.
HEMMER: What do they want?
HAYKEL: In this case, they want the overthrow of the Saudi royal family, they want to bring al Qaeda-like regime to power in Saudi Arabia, and they want to control the oil of the Saudis.
HEMMER: How do you break that group?
HAYKEL: Well, the Saudis are -- interestingly enough -- are using, you know, a whole array of strategies. One is to use religious scholars to convince these people to back down. Getting at the families and as a measure of last resort to -- to fight them militarily.
HEMMER: You have said something dramatic to our producers last night. You say 80 percent of Saudis have the same thinking, as a group, similar to this in terms of the ideology. Explain that.
HAYKEL: Well, I think what I meant is that I think a lot of Saudis, and a lot of Arabs, although we don't really have polls share the -- share the, let's say, the political ambitions of this group, which is to redress the humiliation of the Muslims, to get America defeated in Iraq. But they don't necessarily share the tactics of this group.
In other words, they share the political aims of bringing Islam back to glory, and Muslims back their honor, but they don't necessarily advocate beheadings and terrorist actions.
HEMMER: Late yesterday the word was that a group of security forces had surrounded an ultra conservative neighborhood around the Riyadh neighborhood and had pulled back from there. What does that tell you in terms of their efforts to try and find Paul Johnson?
HAYKEL: I think it's a very difficult thing and what it indicates is that they're not getting the kind of cooperation from Saudi civilians that they would like to get and repeatedly the Saudi authorities are saying to Saudi -- ordinary Saudi citizens -- you have to cooperate with us, you have to divulge information, you can't let this happen. Otherwise, the whole society will unravel.
HEMMER: With all due respect, I hope your opinion is wrong and I hope we find that out tomorrow and over the weekend.
Thanks for coming -- Professor Bernard Haykel from New York University.
HAYKEL: Thank you.
HEMMER: Just about 15 minutes past the hour.
Across the room to Heidi Collins for the rest of the day's news. Heidi, good morning there.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, Bill and good morning to you everyone.
We begin in Iraq in a story we've been following all morning. An apparent suicide bombing in Baghdad.
A coalition official says an SUV exploded in the city today outside a recruiting station for Iraqi security forces.
Iraq's health ministry saying at least 35 people are dead, more than 130 others wounded. There are no reports of U.S. casualties.
A vigil is planned for tonight for four people who drowned at a Texas park. Officials say a little girl either jumped or fell into a pool, which was not meant for swimming at a Fort Worth water garden. The others died trying to save her.
All four victims were members of a Chicago Baptist church, in town for a convention. An investigation is ongoing.
Olympic sprinter Marion Jones is speaking out about a drug case that could keep her away from this summer's games in Athens.
Yesterday Jones blasted the U.S. anti-doping agency, the group involved in the probe, calling it a kangaroo court. Jones says the agency has yet to produce any credible evidence against her and is calling for a public hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: I have never, ever failed a drug test. I have taken over 160 drug tests, I have taken tests before, during and after the 2000 Olympics and have never failed a test.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We'll hear from Marion Jones' attorneys coming up a little bit later in the show.
And some heavy flooding and storms swept through parts of Texas and South Dakota. As much as five inches of rain fell yesterday in parts of the Lone Star state. The high water making it tough for cars to get through and stranding some people in their homes.
Same problem in parts of South Dakota. Torrential downpours flooding streets there. Nearly eight inches of rain fell in just two hours in Sioux Falls. No injuries reported.
Back over to you guys.
HEMMER: All right, Heidi. Favorite video today is that house floating down the Ohio River don't you think?
O'BRIEN: It's amazing they can't figure out whose house that is.
HEMMER: That's the key, yes, where did it come from? We you not know at this point.
CAFFERTY: Not a houseboat?
HEMMER: Now it is.
CAFFERTY: Let me ask you. I got a question. This Marion Jones. She keeps saying I never failed a drug test. But she has not said I didn't use any of this stuff, has she?
O'BRIEN: I believe she has, actually.
CAFFERTY: Did she say that?
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: I believe she -- I don't know.
CAFFERTY: Because in that thing we just watched there -- said I never failed a drug test. That's not exactly...
HEMMER: Depends on what the meaning of the word is is.
O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
CAFFERTY: Yes. How come she didn't say it in that thing there?
O'BRIEN: Well, we just ran a clip. I mean, she had a long press conference. We didn't run the whole thing.
CAFFERTY: I withdraw the question.
O'BRIEN: OK.
CAFFERTY: I have another question.
O'BRIEN: Sure.
CAFFERTY: NBA star Kobe Bryant is going to maybe have to face more questions than he bargained for when he goes on trial for sexual assault.
Beginning July 1, Colorado becomes the first state in the country to allow jurors in criminal cases to submit questions for witnesses. Although jurors in the state civil cases have been able to do this for the last five years, the lawyers say that there is much more at stake in criminal cases.
Now you can't ask any question. You know, I mean, there's a limit, and the judge will decide what questions are relevant, but we ain't got no judge here.
So you can ask anything you want. And the "Question of the Day" is, if you were a juror in the Kobe Bryant case, what questions would you ask? am@cnn.com.
HEMMER: I like it.
O'BRIEN: Great question. Thank you Jack. CAFFERTY: One out of two ain't bad.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: You know what? You get credit for the other one, too. Two out of two. Batting a thousand.
We were talking about this just moments ago. That strange sight on the Ohio River that made some folks in Kentucky do kind of a double take. Two houses seen floating in the Ohio River.
It happened near the town of Westport, Kentucky, about an hour from Louisville. Some people didn't quite know what to make of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first walked down, I just saw that roof, and I thought it might have been a boat capsized or something.
You know at first we saw the helicopters and then I walked down and I saw you all and I saw the shack and I didn't know what to think of it. I mean, we've always wanted a houseboat down there, but I think they're going to tow it away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Yes they are, actually. The Coast Guard moved in to secure the homes. It's believed that they fell into the river from another town and then traveled down the river.
HEMMER: Not just one but two.
O'BRIEN: I know; it's pretty amazing. Those are not houseboats. Those are houses.
HEMMER: Did you hear what he said? He always wanted a houseboat down there and now he has one. Times two.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Chad ruined it, ruined a perfectly good houseboat story.
O'BRIEN: They're houseboats or they're not houseboats?
HEMMER: It's a house floating down the river; we're going to go with that today.
O'BRIEN: Really?
HEMMER: Right?
O'BRIEN: Well you said there's blue barrels, which I honestly, you know, I can't see.
HEMMER: That's right.
O'BRIEN: Who knows. We'll have to look into that.
HEMMER: Thanks, Chad. In a moment, "Minding Your Business" -- Andy Serwer drops in to tell you how America's homeland security is being outsourced overseas. Andy has that in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Also ahead this morning, one of the nation's most powerful lobbying groups hits the airwaves. Is it free speech or just a really long campaign commercial?
HEMMER: Also, would you rather have an Oscar or a gold medal? Hollywood makes a run at Olympic glory. We will too after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
O'BRIEN: Is that Tom Cruise?
HEMMER: Yes it is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everybody. Follow-up on a story we talked about last week. Could responsibility for protecting America's borders soon go to an offshore company?
Believe it or not, maybe. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business," and stops in now. Good morning to you.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you guys. Bermuda, yes. Nice work if you can get it, I guess.
It appears that will be the case, Bill. The House moved closer yesterday to approving a contract that would award a protection of our borders to Accenture a Bermuda-based company.
And this is a controversial measure, obviously. Congress debated this before the vote. Representative Marion Berry, Democrat of Arkansas sought to block the contract. Let's listen to what he had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARION BERRY (D) ARKANSAS: Can you imagine turning border control over to a foreign company? Doesn't that make a lot of sense? Not only is it a foreign company that we're turning the control of the borders over to, but we're paying them with tax dollars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERWER: Now the House voted to block the contract. It was along Party lines. 234-197. The Republican majority carried the day even though Republicans earlier on had decided they were going to try to block the measure they later sided with the House leaders in this.
It still has to be approved by...
HEMMER: Is it a foreign company or...
O'BRIEN: It's an American company, but that's gone offshore to save money.
SERWER: Well, actually, it was foreign. It's very complicated, because it used to be part of Arthur Andersen, then it was in Switzerland, and now it's in Bermuda -- but it's all about avoiding taxes.
The part of the company that will be doing the work here will be paying U.S. taxes so that's -- that's very important to note that. It's -- the parent company in Bermuda that's not paying U.S. taxes.
HEMMER: Got it.
O'BRIEN: But it's run by Americans isn't it? Essentially?
SERWER: Well, they're actually the people at the company -- well, actually, the people are from all over. They're from Europe; they're from the United States so it is very much of an international company.
O'BRIEN: Weird. All right. Thanks, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome. Still to come this morning, the 9/11 Commission debunks one of the first rationales for going to war in Iraq. We're going to have a live report from the Pentagon just ahead.
Also this morning, Marion Jones' lawyers say anti-doping officials can run but they can't hide. Find out what they plan to do to fight the accusations that are dogging the Olympic champion. That's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome everybody.
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Aired June 17, 2004 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: The destructive power of terrorist bombings in Baghdad seemingly greater by the day. This morning more than 170 dead and wounded.
An Olympic fighting to clear her name.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARION JONES, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: I have never, ever failed a drug test.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Marion Jones vowing not to answer questions for what she calls a kangaroo court.
And the high water along the Ohio River carrying just about everything downstream on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, welcome everybody. Some of the stories that are making headlines this morning: the final session in the 9/11 hearings set to being in just about an hour.
A number of myths expected to be dispelled today, including that the military was ready to shoot down civilian airplanes on the day of the attacks.
We're going to talk to two of the commissioners about that. Also some of the -- I think it's fair to call them stunning -- details that have come out in the last day or so concerning the terrorist plot. More details.
HEMMER: Also from Saudi Arabia, officials there say they're doing everything possible to find an American contractor held hostage in the Kingdom. Time may be running out.
A deadline set for tomorrow on Friday. A lot to talk about on this matter today, including looking at what the Saudis might be doing behind the scenes. All that's coming up in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Also this morning, has the National Rifle Association found a way to get around restrictions on buying campaign ads by starting its own news show? We'll take a look at that debate just ahead.
HEMMER: Our Jack Cafferty, good morning to you.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Colorado about to become the first state in the union that will allow members of the jury in criminal trials to ask questions of witnesses. Could have implications for a guy named Kobe Bryant. We'll talk about it.
HEMMER: Intriguing. Thank you, Jack.
Let's start this morning in Iraq yet again today. Another deadly car bomb exploding there in Baghdad. At least 35 said to be dead, well over 100 injured outside an Iraqi army recruitment center.
With the handover now only 13 days away, violent attacks occurring by the day. Our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, now live in Baghdad with more there -- Christiane.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Bill, the Ministry of Health here telling us that amongst the wounded are 135 people now in hospitals -- 138 rather, including 35 dead.
According to U.S. military officials who are --quickly came to the scene after the explosion, it was a suicide car bomb attack, it was an SUV we're told, a white sports utility vehicle, packed with artillery shells that caused all these injuries and damage.
It happened at the height of rush hour, 9 a.m. this morning, outside the recruitment center for the Iraqi Civil Defense Corps.
We're told by the military that those Iraqi recruits were actually inside, and that the biggest death toll and injuries were caused amongst ordinary Iraqis who were in the street.
They were taken, the injured and the dead, to two of the main hospitals in Baghdad. This is not the first car bomb attack, suicide bomb attack, this week. There was one on Monday.
That was directly targeted at foreigners, it was foreign contractors but, again, the bulk of those who were killed and wounded were Iraqis, and that does seem to be the trend right now, Bill.
HEMMER: Christiane Amanpour, more throughout the morning on that -- Soledad.
O'BRIEN: The U.S. military was not prepared to shoot down civilian aircraft on 9/11. A member of the commission investigating the attacks says that and other myths will be dispelled at today's final public hearing.
Many details that were not public knowledge came out of yesterday's hearing, including that al Qaeda originally planned to use 10 planes to attack targets on both U.S. coasts and that Osama bin Laden was directly involved in the decision making. He wanted to attack in May or July. Bin Laden also vetoed part of the original plan, calling for the attacks to be carried out in Asia at the same time as those in the United States.
And there was disagreement about whether Flight 93 should hit the White House or the Capitol. Two days before 9/11, there was still no firm target. Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania.
Readiness to deal with what was happening in the air that day will be covered today. Joining us this morning from Washington, D.C. to talk about all of this and today's final public hearing, two members of the 9/11 Commission -- commissioner John Lehman and commissioner Richard Ben-Veniste.
Gentlemen, good morning, nice to see both of you. Commissioner Lehman, we'll begin with you if we may.
Some of these details -- I don't think it's an exaggeration to call them just shocking -- the word about the 10 planes and the 10 different targets and the moving of the dates because some of the terrorists actually were not yet quite prepared to carry out the attacks.
Where did you get the bulk of this information from?
JOHN LEHMAN, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Well, this information was all for the most part in the intelligence community. Some of it has only come to light very recently in -- through interrogations and through other means.
But a lot of it was available -- has been available for a long time. There is good news and bad news in this -- these findings because the good news is that they weren't able to pull off the scale of the attack that was originally planned with 10 airplanes.
But the bad news is it demonstrates a -- an intelligence, a pragmatism, and a discipline of command from Osama that is truly impressive. It was he who made the judgments that the risk, reward was too high for some of the more ambitious targets and scaled it back to one that had a much higher probability of success.
Still complicated, still sophisticated, but very intelligently carried off.
O'BRIEN: So then Commissioner Ben-Veniste, what have you learned about al Qaeda in the wake of this? Obviously better organized than was first originally thought?
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Well, what we learned was that al Qaeda was willing to wait, they were patient. In fact, Osama bin Laden was more impatient than those who had operational control.
We learned a great deal about the organization coming up to today. We learned yesterday from the CIA that following the invasion of Iraq and subsequent events; recruitment for al Qaeda has jumped markedly. And yesterday I think we put to rest, hopefully, the false notion that Iraq was in some way involved in the planning of the 9/11 catastrophe.
O'BRIEN: I want to get back to that in one moment but first I want to ask you about the shooting down of the planes. There was a story that came out really right after the 9/11 attacks that said the military was on the verge of shooting down a civilian plane if they had to.
It now turns out that actually it seems like even though there are 50 minutes between when the first plane struck and everyone was aware it was a terror attack to when the last plane hit the Pentagon, that actually there was a large chunk of time, 15 minutes, when planes could have been put up and that didn't happen.
Was it a lack of preparedness, commissioner Lehman? Could better preparation have saved lives in all of this?
LEHMAN: Well I think that you'll be able to draw the conclusions today that there was -- there was -- there was considerable breakdown in command and control and especially in communications between the FAA and NORAD. But it's not true to say that there were no orders to shoot down.
In fact, because the command and control breakdowns, there were two sets of airplanes over the Capitol. The NORAD airplanes had no instructions, but the pilots maintained that they probably would have if they'd seen the airplane coming and had no instructions still shot it down.
On the other hand, there were Air National Guard airplanes up that were not even talking to the Air Force airplanes that were up and they had instructions to clear fire which meant that the pilots had the discretion to shoot -- shoot anything incoming.
So, it's a picture of lack of preparation between FAA and the Air Force and -- but would it have saved lives? I think that's -- I think had they been better trained and organized to cooperate, that it is possible that 77 might have been intercepted, but it was a very -- it would have been a very, very close call even in the best of cooperation.
O'BRIEN: Commissioner Ben-Veniste, I'll give you the last question this morning. And you were talking about it just a moment ago. A quote from the report is no credible evidence that Iraq and al Qaeda cooperated on attacks against the United States. As you well know, this was a large part of the administration's message as the U.S. headed to war in Iraq.
So then are -- is your point that the administration lied to the American public, or are you saying that the commissioners had better access to intelligence than the administration did?
BEN-VENISTE: You know, this information seems to have crept into the public domain, indeed polls show that some 60 percent or so of the public believed that Iraq was responsible for 9/11. That just isn't the case, and indeed the president of the United States said so in September of last year.
And so it's mystifying, in fact, how this myth continues to be perpetrated, but the fact of the matter is that this bipartisan commission after 18 months of investigation has found no credible evidence that Iraq was involved.
In fact, the White House was provided in advance of yesterday's hearing, with a copy of our staff statement. They made no objection as to the facts contained therein.
O'BRIEN: Commissioner Ben-Veniste and commissioner Lehman joining us this morning. Gentlemen thanks, appreciate it.
This mornings hearing gets underway at the top of the hour. We're going to have live coverage when the joint chiefs chairman, General Richard Meyers, testifies, which we're expecting at 9:15 Eastern Time this morning -- Bill.
HEMMER: About 10 minutes past the hour. A world away from the Saudi Arabian kingdom the family of hostage Paul Johnson pleading now for his release, holding out hope despite an increasingly grim situation.
Johnson's son and sister spoke with Deborah Feyerick yesterday. Deb's live again this morning in New Jersey. Good morning there.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Bill.
Well, American hostage rescuers have been sent to Saudi Arabia. They're trying to find Paul Johnson, and the government is saying it is doing everything humanly possible to try to bring him home safely. And while a top Saudi adviser describes the situation right now as grim -- as you say, the family is holding out hope.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: As the Friday deadline nears for American captive Paul Johnson, his mother remains secluded in New Jersey. Sick, frail, and unaware how bad her son's situation really is.
FEYERICK: Does she know that there is a 72-hour deadline?
DONNA MERAUX, PAUL JOHNSON'S SISTER: No she does not. We -- she has not viewed the video -- I told her that he's alive and that this is serious, but we did not discuss any demands with her because her health is fragile.
FEYERICK: Johnson's sister Donna says she has seen the tapes of other American hostages -- Daniel Pearl and Nicholas Berg -- but never for a moment did she believe her brother was in any danger.
You see the kidnappers, one is behind him, clearly one is there shooting the video -- what goes through your mind?
MERAUX: For me it's disbelief. My brother always felt safe in Saudi Arabia. He never feared living there. FEYERICK: Johnson's wife is still in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. The Lockheed Martin engineer was abducted from his car there Saturday.
PAUL JOHNSON III, JOHNSON'S SON: She's waiting for my father to come through the front door.
FEYERICK: A videotape released by the kidnappers makes two demands -- the withdrawal of all Westerners from the Arabian Peninsula, and the release of all al Qaeda prisoners in Saudi Arabia.
Otherwise, the kidnappers say they will kill Johnson Friday.
FEYERICK: What is the message that you have for your dad right now?
JOHNSON: I just want him brought home safely.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK (on camera): There will be a candlelight vigil tonight in Johnson's hometown, just behind the firehouse. Meantime, the State Department is urging all Americans to get out of Saudi Arabia -- Bill.
HEMMER: Deborah Feyerick in New Jersey this morning. Again, the deadline just a day away. The Saudi government vowing to do all it can to save Paul Johnson.
Bernard Haykel is a professor of Middle Eastern-Islamic studies at New York University. Our guest here now in New York.
Good morning, professor.
BERNARD HAYKEL, MIDDLE EASTERN AND ISLAMIC STUDIES EXPERT: Good morning.
HEMMER: What do you say to the family that would give them a sliver of hope at this point?
HAYKEL: Unfortunately, I really think that this man has really no chance unless he's found by Saudi security forces.
HEMMER: No chance of mercy on behalf of those who are keeping him?
HAYKEL: No, not at all. In fact...
HEMMER: Why would you say that?
HAYKEL: Because of the statements that they've put out on their Web site and the kinds of quotes that they've made.
I mean, they've talked explicitly about beheading and I -- I just don't think this group is likely to -- to -- to change its mind on this issue and also the name of the group is the Fallujah Company, the Fallujah Battalion.
They're emulating what's happening in Iraq. They're conscious of what's happening in Iraq and they're doing the same things.
HEMMER: What do they want?
HAYKEL: In this case, they want the overthrow of the Saudi royal family, they want to bring al Qaeda-like regime to power in Saudi Arabia, and they want to control the oil of the Saudis.
HEMMER: How do you break that group?
HAYKEL: Well, the Saudis are -- interestingly enough -- are using, you know, a whole array of strategies. One is to use religious scholars to convince these people to back down. Getting at the families and as a measure of last resort to -- to fight them militarily.
HEMMER: You have said something dramatic to our producers last night. You say 80 percent of Saudis have the same thinking, as a group, similar to this in terms of the ideology. Explain that.
HAYKEL: Well, I think what I meant is that I think a lot of Saudis, and a lot of Arabs, although we don't really have polls share the -- share the, let's say, the political ambitions of this group, which is to redress the humiliation of the Muslims, to get America defeated in Iraq. But they don't necessarily share the tactics of this group.
In other words, they share the political aims of bringing Islam back to glory, and Muslims back their honor, but they don't necessarily advocate beheadings and terrorist actions.
HEMMER: Late yesterday the word was that a group of security forces had surrounded an ultra conservative neighborhood around the Riyadh neighborhood and had pulled back from there. What does that tell you in terms of their efforts to try and find Paul Johnson?
HAYKEL: I think it's a very difficult thing and what it indicates is that they're not getting the kind of cooperation from Saudi civilians that they would like to get and repeatedly the Saudi authorities are saying to Saudi -- ordinary Saudi citizens -- you have to cooperate with us, you have to divulge information, you can't let this happen. Otherwise, the whole society will unravel.
HEMMER: With all due respect, I hope your opinion is wrong and I hope we find that out tomorrow and over the weekend.
Thanks for coming -- Professor Bernard Haykel from New York University.
HAYKEL: Thank you.
HEMMER: Just about 15 minutes past the hour.
Across the room to Heidi Collins for the rest of the day's news. Heidi, good morning there.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, Bill and good morning to you everyone.
We begin in Iraq in a story we've been following all morning. An apparent suicide bombing in Baghdad.
A coalition official says an SUV exploded in the city today outside a recruiting station for Iraqi security forces.
Iraq's health ministry saying at least 35 people are dead, more than 130 others wounded. There are no reports of U.S. casualties.
A vigil is planned for tonight for four people who drowned at a Texas park. Officials say a little girl either jumped or fell into a pool, which was not meant for swimming at a Fort Worth water garden. The others died trying to save her.
All four victims were members of a Chicago Baptist church, in town for a convention. An investigation is ongoing.
Olympic sprinter Marion Jones is speaking out about a drug case that could keep her away from this summer's games in Athens.
Yesterday Jones blasted the U.S. anti-doping agency, the group involved in the probe, calling it a kangaroo court. Jones says the agency has yet to produce any credible evidence against her and is calling for a public hearing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: I have never, ever failed a drug test. I have taken over 160 drug tests, I have taken tests before, during and after the 2000 Olympics and have never failed a test.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: We'll hear from Marion Jones' attorneys coming up a little bit later in the show.
And some heavy flooding and storms swept through parts of Texas and South Dakota. As much as five inches of rain fell yesterday in parts of the Lone Star state. The high water making it tough for cars to get through and stranding some people in their homes.
Same problem in parts of South Dakota. Torrential downpours flooding streets there. Nearly eight inches of rain fell in just two hours in Sioux Falls. No injuries reported.
Back over to you guys.
HEMMER: All right, Heidi. Favorite video today is that house floating down the Ohio River don't you think?
O'BRIEN: It's amazing they can't figure out whose house that is.
HEMMER: That's the key, yes, where did it come from? We you not know at this point.
CAFFERTY: Not a houseboat?
HEMMER: Now it is.
CAFFERTY: Let me ask you. I got a question. This Marion Jones. She keeps saying I never failed a drug test. But she has not said I didn't use any of this stuff, has she?
O'BRIEN: I believe she has, actually.
CAFFERTY: Did she say that?
HEMMER: Yes.
O'BRIEN: I believe she -- I don't know.
CAFFERTY: Because in that thing we just watched there -- said I never failed a drug test. That's not exactly...
HEMMER: Depends on what the meaning of the word is is.
O'BRIEN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
CAFFERTY: Yes. How come she didn't say it in that thing there?
O'BRIEN: Well, we just ran a clip. I mean, she had a long press conference. We didn't run the whole thing.
CAFFERTY: I withdraw the question.
O'BRIEN: OK.
CAFFERTY: I have another question.
O'BRIEN: Sure.
CAFFERTY: NBA star Kobe Bryant is going to maybe have to face more questions than he bargained for when he goes on trial for sexual assault.
Beginning July 1, Colorado becomes the first state in the country to allow jurors in criminal cases to submit questions for witnesses. Although jurors in the state civil cases have been able to do this for the last five years, the lawyers say that there is much more at stake in criminal cases.
Now you can't ask any question. You know, I mean, there's a limit, and the judge will decide what questions are relevant, but we ain't got no judge here.
So you can ask anything you want. And the "Question of the Day" is, if you were a juror in the Kobe Bryant case, what questions would you ask? am@cnn.com.
HEMMER: I like it.
O'BRIEN: Great question. Thank you Jack. CAFFERTY: One out of two ain't bad.
(LAUGHTER)
O'BRIEN: You know what? You get credit for the other one, too. Two out of two. Batting a thousand.
We were talking about this just moments ago. That strange sight on the Ohio River that made some folks in Kentucky do kind of a double take. Two houses seen floating in the Ohio River.
It happened near the town of Westport, Kentucky, about an hour from Louisville. Some people didn't quite know what to make of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When I first walked down, I just saw that roof, and I thought it might have been a boat capsized or something.
You know at first we saw the helicopters and then I walked down and I saw you all and I saw the shack and I didn't know what to think of it. I mean, we've always wanted a houseboat down there, but I think they're going to tow it away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Yes they are, actually. The Coast Guard moved in to secure the homes. It's believed that they fell into the river from another town and then traveled down the river.
HEMMER: Not just one but two.
O'BRIEN: I know; it's pretty amazing. Those are not houseboats. Those are houses.
HEMMER: Did you hear what he said? He always wanted a houseboat down there and now he has one. Times two.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HEMMER: Chad ruined it, ruined a perfectly good houseboat story.
O'BRIEN: They're houseboats or they're not houseboats?
HEMMER: It's a house floating down the river; we're going to go with that today.
O'BRIEN: Really?
HEMMER: Right?
O'BRIEN: Well you said there's blue barrels, which I honestly, you know, I can't see.
HEMMER: That's right.
O'BRIEN: Who knows. We'll have to look into that.
HEMMER: Thanks, Chad. In a moment, "Minding Your Business" -- Andy Serwer drops in to tell you how America's homeland security is being outsourced overseas. Andy has that in a moment.
O'BRIEN: Also ahead this morning, one of the nation's most powerful lobbying groups hits the airwaves. Is it free speech or just a really long campaign commercial?
HEMMER: Also, would you rather have an Oscar or a gold medal? Hollywood makes a run at Olympic glory. We will too after this on AMERICAN MORNING.
O'BRIEN: Is that Tom Cruise?
HEMMER: Yes it is.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HEMMER: Welcome back everybody. Follow-up on a story we talked about last week. Could responsibility for protecting America's borders soon go to an offshore company?
Believe it or not, maybe. Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business," and stops in now. Good morning to you.
ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Good morning to you guys. Bermuda, yes. Nice work if you can get it, I guess.
It appears that will be the case, Bill. The House moved closer yesterday to approving a contract that would award a protection of our borders to Accenture a Bermuda-based company.
And this is a controversial measure, obviously. Congress debated this before the vote. Representative Marion Berry, Democrat of Arkansas sought to block the contract. Let's listen to what he had to say about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARION BERRY (D) ARKANSAS: Can you imagine turning border control over to a foreign company? Doesn't that make a lot of sense? Not only is it a foreign company that we're turning the control of the borders over to, but we're paying them with tax dollars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SERWER: Now the House voted to block the contract. It was along Party lines. 234-197. The Republican majority carried the day even though Republicans earlier on had decided they were going to try to block the measure they later sided with the House leaders in this.
It still has to be approved by...
HEMMER: Is it a foreign company or...
O'BRIEN: It's an American company, but that's gone offshore to save money.
SERWER: Well, actually, it was foreign. It's very complicated, because it used to be part of Arthur Andersen, then it was in Switzerland, and now it's in Bermuda -- but it's all about avoiding taxes.
The part of the company that will be doing the work here will be paying U.S. taxes so that's -- that's very important to note that. It's -- the parent company in Bermuda that's not paying U.S. taxes.
HEMMER: Got it.
O'BRIEN: But it's run by Americans isn't it? Essentially?
SERWER: Well, they're actually the people at the company -- well, actually, the people are from all over. They're from Europe; they're from the United States so it is very much of an international company.
O'BRIEN: Weird. All right. Thanks, Andy.
SERWER: You're welcome. Still to come this morning, the 9/11 Commission debunks one of the first rationales for going to war in Iraq. We're going to have a live report from the Pentagon just ahead.
Also this morning, Marion Jones' lawyers say anti-doping officials can run but they can't hide. Find out what they plan to do to fight the accusations that are dogging the Olympic champion. That's ahead as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome everybody.
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