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Lou Dobbs Tonight

President Bush condemns beheading of American hostage Paul Johnson; Saudi officials claim leader of the al Qaeda cell, Abdul Aziz al-Muqrin has been killed; U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan calls for renewal of U.S. exemption to international war crimes trials to be declined;

Aired June 18, 2004 - 18:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LOU DOBBS, HOST, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: Tonight, as feared, savagery in Saudi Arabia. Radical Islamists behead American hostage Paul Johnson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: There's no justification whatsoever for his murder. And yet they killed him in cold blood.

DOBBS: The Pentagon is outsourcing security. The Pentagon awards a $300 million security contract in Iraq to a foreign company. P.W. Singer, author of "Corporate Warriors," joins us. We'll be talking about the rise of privatized military - or are they really mercenaries?

Shocking new evidence tonight that even highly-skilled technology workers are losing their jobs to cheap overseas labor. Marcus Courtney of WashTech is our guest.

More than 2 million American troops face a new threat tonight, from United Nations Secretary Kofi Annan. The secretary general is now demanding U.S. troops lose their immunity from international war crimes trials.

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL: I think it should be unfortunate for one to press for such an assumption, given the prisoner abuse in Iraq.

DOBBS: And anger and outrage after the president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, declares he will defend Mexicans in America from what he calls human rights abuses, raids by U.S. authorities in California. We'll have a special report.

ANNOUCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, June 18. Here now, for an hour of news, debate and opinion, is Lou Dobbs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Good evening. Tonight, cold-blooded, savage murder in Saudi Arabia. Radical Islamists beheaded American hostage Paul Johnson. The al Qaeda terrorists killed Johnson one week after he was kidnapped in Riyadh.

And tonight, Arab television networks are reporting that the leader of the al Qaeda cell responsible for his murder has been killed. So far, we do not have confirmation of these early reports, and President Bush (AUDIO GAP) radical Islamist website late today, from a group calling itself the Fallujah Squadron.

The statement said Johnson "...got his fair share from this life and for him to taste a bit of what the Muslims have been suffering from Apache helicopter attacks and they were tortured by its missiles."

Shortly after that announcement was posted, Saudi security officials found Johnson's body in Eastern Riyadh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We, of course, totally condemn this action as an action of barbarism, and action that shows, once again, what the world is dealing with, with these kinds of individuals who behead somebody or murder somebody in cold blood, an innocent individual who was just trying to help people and trying to do his job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Johnson is the latest victim of an escalating al Qaeda campaign that targets westerners. The al Qaeda goal is to drive foreign workers from the kingdom and bring down the royal family. The 49-year-old engineer worked on Apache helicopter systems for Lockheed Martin.

As news came of his death, Lockheed Martin issued this statement: "All we can say is we're very distressed, very disheartened and are dealing with the family."

Earlier this week, Abdul Aziz Al Muqrin, the self-proclaimed military leader of al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia, threatened to kill Johnson within 72 hours unless the Saudi government released the al Qaeda prisoners and westerners left the Arabian Peninsula.

The State Department reiterated its warning to the 30,000 Americans living in the country to leave, saying it expects further attacks.

And President Bush strongly condemned the murder of Johnson today. Speaking in Seattle, the president said the terrorists responsible for the murder are barbaric people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: There's no justification whatsoever for his murder. And yet they killed him in cold blood. And it should remind us that we must pursue these people and bring them to justice before they hurt other Americans. See, they're trying to intimidate America. They're trying to shake our will. They're trying to get us to retreat from the world. America will not retreat. America will not be intimidated by these kinds of extremist thugs. May God bless Paul Johnson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Tonight, a top Saudi diplomat in Washington said Saudi authorities did everything possible to find Johnson before he was killed, and he is deeply sorry. He said they failed.

The diplomat said his government will hunt down the terrorists responsible for Johnson's murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADEL AL-JUBEIR, SAUDI EMBASSY SPOKESMAN: This is an attack against humanity. This is an attack against decency. This is an attack against the innocent. This is an attack against the universal values that we all share as human beings, and this is something that requires a response from all of us. There is no justification whatsoever for doing harm to the innocent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: My guest says the Saudi authorities have nearly always refused to cooperate with the United States in any investigation of terrorism in Saudi Arabia. Sergeant Major Eric Haney is a former Special Forces soldier, a member of Delta Force, the author of "Inside Delta Force, the Story of America's Elite Counter Terrorist Unit," joining us tonight from CNN Center.

Good to have you with us.

SGT. MAJOR ERIC HANEY, FORMER SPECIAL OPS.: Good evening.

DOBBS: This murder, what profit is there in it for al Qaeda?

HANEY: Well, it establishes the bonafides that they will do this, that they will continue to do it. And it also spreads the great fear within the westerners within the kingdom of Saudi Arabia to start leaving.

And a number of those have already done so. In fact, the State Department has been advising Americans, if they possibly can, to go ahead and depart the kingdom.

DOBBS: You, as a former member of Delta Force -- is the United States effectively helpless here to do anything about the murder of one of its citizens, just as we were just about a month ago in the murder, the beheading of Nicholas Berg Iraq?

HANEY: The short and sad answer is yes. We've never had real cooperation from Saudi monarchy and authorities in Saudi Arabia on anything having to do with the home-grown terrorism. And we have to remember, Islamic extremism's homeland, it's ideological source comes from within the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the monarchy has been greatly complicitous (ph) with it throughout its history.

DOBBS: What's it mean?

HANEY: What I mean by that, just the theocracy -- the fact that the Saudi monarchy is a theocratic organization, that it has support from the extreme expression of Islam within Saudi Arabia -- and that goes back centuries with the Al-Saud family with that tribe. It's what gives a legitimacy to a monarchy that's really on the ropes within its own kingdom. It's widely despised and held in disrepute by a large segment of the Saudi population.

DOBBS: Eric, I want to just give you the latest that we have here at CNN just now. We have now confirmed -- CNN has confirmed that the leader of the al Qaeda cell, the Saudi al Qaeda cell, Abdul Aziz Al Muqrin, has been killed, apparently by Saudi security forces.

We are unclear, at this point, as to when that action took place, and we do know in Riyadh, where the body of Paul Johnson was found, in eastern Riyadh, and, of course, we will be bringing you the details as they are forthcoming here on CNN.

Eric, if indeed, the Saudi security forces have been successful in killing Al Muqrin, how significant, how important?

HANEY: Well, there are two things that are in play here. One is the fact that you cannot take terrorists alive. It just becomes a source for more terrorist activity if you place them in jail and hold them on trial, as the Germans learned dealing with Bauder Meinhof (ph) in that organization 30 and 35 years ago.

On the other side of that coin, though, in the last several years, any time that the Saudis have gained custody of terrorists or those who have opposed the government and have committed acts against the United States, those people have been almost immediately executed before American authorities can interrogate them or at least gain some intelligence from those people.

DOBBS: The idea that the United States would have people, whether in Saudi Arabia or any other sovereign state in the world, without the ability to defend its citizens, there because of commercial reasons, first and foremost obviously in Saudi Arabia, should the United States government have the ability to bring in Delta Force, Special Operations forces to protect Americans?

HANEY: We will probably never deploy those kinds of forces within the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, but I will give you this: the Special Operations forces of Saudi Arabia for several years have been trained by some of my former comrades, old guys who are real professionals in this, and it's a long, hard process, though, to bring those organizations in Saudi Arabia up to a position of credibility and capability.

They're working towards it, but just this: the monarchy is probably, given the current situation, looking at moving really close to its death rows. It's hard to even pick up news inside of Saudi Arabia. As you know, CNN is just not on the street with cameras, nor any other foreign news agencies. The monarchy is, for all intents and purposes, internally a police state. So you get what comes through the filter, and that's exacerbated the problem over the decades.

DOBBS: To the degree, Eric, that we do have some control over what the United States engages in around the world, commercially, politically, strategically, there was a time when this country, in a much simpler world admittedly, could - this country could say that, if you kill an American citizen, you will be dealing with the U.S. military and the power of this nation. Now we hear a lot of rhetoric. We hear people deploring the death of an American citizen, whether, in this instance, obviously Paul Johnson. Is it time for this country to rethink its rather passive response to these kinds of atrocities?

HANEY: It really is. But in the past, generally, rhetoric is what we've issued. When we go back, Bill Buckley, the chief of station in Beirut...

DOBBS: Right.

HANEY: ...was captured and murdered. Colonel Hinckley, a Marine who was working in the Middle East, was captured and murdered. Our embassy in Beirut was blown up. Our response to all of those and other situations has been rhetoric.

The great difficulty that we face right now, particularly with Saudi Arabia, is that Saudi money reaches so deeply into the political influence in this nation, and we're going to have - our leaders, both parties, down to even third level appointees, are going to have to make a conscious and clean break from that sort of thing, recognize the situation as it exists on the ground in the Middle East and take some firm, mature and wise steps towards working to a solution.

And that solution's not going to happen overnight, Lou. We're looking at something for the next two generations, much like the Cold War was for you and I.

DOBBS: You referred to Colonel Hinckley and Beirut. Were you referring to Colonel Higgins?

HANEY: Colonel Higgins, yes. Pardon me. Yes indeed.

DOBBS: And I just wanted to get that forward. I had the privilege of, along with many of my colleagues here, of being on the ship named for Colonel Higgins, the USS Higgins. And I appreciate, Eric, your time and your thoughts. Come back soon.

HANEY: Certainly, sir.

DOBBS: Eric Haney, former Sergeant Major in the Delta Force.

Later here in the broadcast, I'll be talking, of course, about today's events in Saudi Arabia, the heinous murder of Paul Johnson, implications for our relations with Saudi Arabia and, of course, the war on terror worldwide.

We'll be talking with our panel of leading journalists, Karen Tumulty of "Time," Roger Simon, "U.S. News & World Report," Mark Morrison of "BusinessWeek."

In Iraq today, insurgents killed an American soldier in a mortar attack on a U.S. base in Baghdad. In a separate incident north of Baghdad today, U.S. troops killed at least five insurgents in a battle near the town of Baquba. There were no American casualties. Coalition officials say Iraqi is likely to resume, by the way, oil exports this Sunday from the south of the country. Insurgent attacks on that 300-mile pipeline have shut it down. All oil exports have been stopped from Iraq, but at least the Basra pipeline will be opening this Sunday.

The United States is also fighting a diplomatic battle tonight, of course, to stop an outrageous demand by United Nations Secretary Kofi Annan that could affect more than 2 million American troops. Kofi Annan is now demanding that American troops should no longer be shielded from international war crimes and charges resulting from those crimes.

Kitty Pilgrim has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kofi Annan says the United States should not try to seek immunity from the international criminal court for its troops on peacekeeping missions.

ANNAN: I think it would be unfortunate for one to press for the assumption, given the prisoner abuse in Iraq.

PILGRIM: The Bush administration has strongly resisted subjecting U.S. soldiers to prosecution by the international court. The fear is U.S. soldiers could be left open to politically-motivated war crimes prosecution by the international community.

The Bush administration says the U.S. military justice system is sufficient to investigate and prosecute any wrongdoing. So each year, the United States has asked for an exemption. But recent incidents at Abu Ghraib have inflamed the debate.

The United States has to apply for the exemption each year through a U.N. Resolution. The current one expires at the end of June. U.N. Security Council members expected to support the United States so far are Pakistan, Philippines, Russia, United Kingdom, Algeria and Angola. Those expected to abstain, Chile, France, Germany, Romania, Spain, Benin, Brazil and China. At that count, not enough for the nine votes needed for the exemption.

RICHARD DICKER, DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: The Bush administration, in the next few days, has an important decision to make. Will they just let the resolution expire or will they, at the risk of a very divisive fight, at the Security Council, insist on renewing it.

I thought the secretary general was urging, on behalf of the U.S. close allies, just let this go. Don't push this for renewal. Let it expire. (END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: There's a high-level meeting at the U.N. to discuss the resolution this afternoon. More than 40 countries are requesting an open meeting that the U.N., all 191 members, to discuss the issue, and it will potentially be another tense debate for the United States at the U.N. in the week to come -- Lou.

DOBBS: Just how important is this resolution? And what should we make of Kofi Annan's aggressive action against U.S. interests?

PILGRIM: It was fairly verbally aggressive and, given that it has to come to a vote very quickly, it's timed very carefully. The fact is this is important to the United States. We have tried to exempt our troops from this many years, and now...

DOBBS: Successfully.

PILGRIM: Very successfully, and this is one time that we're really going to have a tough battle.

DOBBS: Thank you very much. Kitty Pilgrim.

DOBBS: Congress, tonight, is on a collision course with the White House and the Pentagon over the size of the U.S. Army. Last night, the Senate called for an increase of at least 20,000 soldiers. The vote follows a similar measure in the House of Representatives.

But the White House and the Pentagon are resisting any increase, any permanent increase, in our military strength. Officials say that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has already approved a temporary increase, but they will continue to resist any permanent increase.

Still ahead here, the president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, he's back in this country accusing the United States of human rights violations against Mexicans in America and declaring that he will protect his citizens who live in this country. We'll have a report.

And we'll share with you some of our viewer's thoughts about Fox's highly provocative comments.

The Pentagon awards a huge security contract in Iraq to a foreign company. Is the Pentagon privatizing the military or is it simply hiring mercenaries? My guest is P.W. Singer, author of "Corporate Warriors."

And if you thought your job was safe from overseas outsourcing, well, don't be so sure. High-skilled technology workers are losing their jobs now to cheap overseas labor markets. Marcus Courtney, WashTech is my guest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The Pentagon has just awarded a massive security contract in Iraq to a private company, a private foreign company. The company is Aegis Defense Services of Britain, the deal worth nearly $300 million. And some critics say that deal exposes huge problems in the way the U.S. government is handling private contracts.

About 20,000 civilians are now working in private security firms in Iraq. A private contractor provides, in those instances, security guards for Paul Bremer, the head of the Coalition Provisional Authority. Armed western civilians are also protecting the interim Iraqi prime minister, Iyad Allawi.

Joining me now is P.W. Singer, a fellow at the Brookings Institution, author of "Corporate Warriors: The Rise of Privatized Military Industry."

P.W., good to have you with us.

P.W. SINGER, AUTHOR, "CORPORATE WARRIORS": Thank you.

DOBBS: Let's start with Aegis first of all. That's an unusual contract. I know you had some serious reservations about it. Why?

SINGER: Well, it's really interesting. First of all is the question of why we're turning this contract over to a private company anyway. It's doing oversight and management of security in Iraq. That should be a job for people in the government, either our military or the Iraqi military, whatever one we start off in the future.

But beyond it, there are some real questions about this firm itself. The company's never done anything major in Iraq before. Its only past experience was anti-piracy work. And the CEO of the company has been involved in two very questionable circumstances in his background. One was illegally shipping over 30 tons of weapons to West Africa. The other was a role in a failed army mutiny in Papua New Guinea.

This is a character, if they'd simply bothered to Google him, a lot of stuff would come up, and they didn't even do that.

DOBBS: A remarkable story, Aegis Defense Systems. But Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, as you know, says we don't need more troops. Meanwhile, there are 20,000 private contractors carrying out security roles in Iraq. So one could question whether we need more troops or not.

Are we, in your judgment, simply using private security so that the Pentagon doesn't have to, in any way, give a tip of the hat to the fact they need more American Army troops in Iraq?

SINGER: What's driving this market is not economic cost savings, but political cost savings, not having to call up more troops, not having to call up more National Guard and Reserves, not having to admit you were wrong about some of the assumptions you went into Iraq about, but also avoiding some of the political costs of casualties, because while you have 20,000 private military contractors there, about the equivalent of an Army division, they've also been taking the equivalent of an Army division's worth of casualties.

Somewhere, depending on who's doing the counting, between 90 and 100 private military contractors have been killed. Another 300 to 400 have been wounded. None of that's been publicly reported before, and that's a way of displacing some of the political cost.

DOBBS: And there is no expression of concern, at least as far as I can judge, from Congress about the use of these private contractors, whether they be foreign companies or whether they be American. Plainly, simply, straightforwardly put, aren't these people, in fact, mercenaries?

SINGER: Well, they're the evolution of mercenaries, because they're not operating as individuals. These are corporations that are out there. These are private business entities. Some of them are Fortune 50 firms, divisions within them, so it's the next step of the mercenary trade, so to speak.

And Congress, you know, can play a role in this, but unfortunately has dropped the ball. In fact, there was an amendment put out there just a couple days ago to try and, for example, restrict private contractors from doing controversial stuff like prison interrogations, like at Abu Ghraib, or to financially punish firms that mess up, firms that overbill the U.S. military. And guess what? Congress defeated that. That's why we're not seeing much action on this.

DOBBS: So while everyone is critical or a lot of people are critical of the Pentagon, the Bush administration, there is plenty of room, in your judgment, for criticism of Congress for not maintaining its responsibilities here.

SINGER: At the end of the day, we need to guard our interests as clients. We're the clients in the industry here. We need to make the smart decisions, choosing the best firms, oversight and managing in the best way, setting up the regulatory mechanisms so that there's some accountability to this.

And, you know, that burden falls on the civilian leadership at the Pentagon. And if they're not going to do it right, then it falls onto Congress to rein them in. Neither of those has happened sufficiently right now.

DOBBS: P.W. Singer, we thank you for being with us.

SINGER: Thank you.

DOBBS: Author of "Corporate Warriors," and there are more than a few now working for the United States government around the world, especially in Iraq.

That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. The question: should the U.S. military outsource security contracts to private contractors -- or, if you prefer, mercenaries? Yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results, of course, coming up later.

Scientists, tonight, say they have found a unique object in the solar system. It's a comet named Wild 2. It was examined closely by NASA's Stardust Spacecraft. Scientists found the three-mile wide comet has towering protrusions and steep walled caverns different from any other comet ever studied. They described Wild 2's condition as pristine on its first trip to the inner solar system. NASA scientists say the comet was formed 4.5 billion years ago, just after the birth of our own sun.

When we continue here, exporting American jobs and American know- how to the lowest bidder. Marcus Courtney, president of technology worker alliance WashTech is our guest.

Also, tonight, heroes -- tonight, we introduce to you a National Guardsman who returned from a year in Afghanistan to his family and his career. His story is coming up.

And dire conditions in western states tonight, as we have been reporting here extensively, the drought that now grips much of the west is the worst drought in centuries. It threatens tens of millions of western residents. We'll have that story and a great deal more coming right up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion. Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: I'm joined now by three of this country's top journalists. Joining us tonight from Washington, Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent "Time" magazine.

Good to have you with us, Karen.

Roger Simon, national political editor, "U.S. News & World Report." Good evening, Roger.

And here in New York, none other than Mark Morrison, managing editor of "BusinessWeek" magazine. Good to have you here, Mark.

MARK MORRISON, MANAGING EDITOR, "BUSINESSWEEK": Thanks, Lou.

DOBBS: Lets, Roger, begin with you first on the Middle East. We are now less than two weeks away from the handover. In your judgment, what is the situation? How serious is it?

ROGER SIMON, NATIONAL POLITICAL EDITOR, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Throughout the Middle East or are we talking about Iraq?

DOBBS: Iraq.

SIMON: It continues to be serious, but there are obviously reasons for hope. The fact that we are turning over power to the Iraqi government, the fact that we're beginning the first steps of, in President Bush's words, putting an Iraqi face on the defense of Iraq so that U.S. troops can eventually be withdrawn, are all positive signs.

DOBBS: And significant for improvement, if you will, of President Bush's lot, politically here? SIMON: Certainly. Iraq has been a huge drag on his poll numbers. It has sentimented (ph) negative poll numbers for the first time, although in new polls he's back in positive territory. And Iraq has to be -- it has to be a light at the end of the tunnel by November 3 or he risks suffering the consequences of that at the polls.

DOBBS: Your thoughts, Karen?

TUMULTY: Well, the only problem with putting an Iraqi face on the whole handover operation is that Iraqis continue to die in Iraq at, you know, the rate of dozens a day. And while the administration had been very clear in predicting that this would happen, that there would actually be a step up in the insurgency the closer we got to June 30, for this to work, they are going to have to get some kind of handle on the security situation.

DOBBS: Another issue that is moving forward, Mark, is the role between these two parties, Democrats and Republicans on the issue of the middle class in this country. The Republicans passing what they called a Jobs Creation Bill. Yet another jobs creation bill but spending $140 billion to correct a $4 billion problem. What's your take on that legislation?

MORRISON: Well, it's just a disaster. It's full of pork and handouts to the tobacco industry and things that the country can't afford and it's a sign that our political system is not working correctly. Money is driving the process, and our politicians are not serving us very well.

DOBBS: And Roger, 48 Democrats crossed party lines to get over there and support what their party, the Democratic party said was an anti-worker bill. What's going on with the Democratic party?

SIMON: Pork is popular everywhere. Pork knows no party, Lou. Pork is politics. If you can bring money into your district, if you can bring a benefit to an industry in your state, especially tobacco, if you're in the tobacco state.

DOBBS: Are you going to give us an apology for pork? How about principle here?

SIMON: Yes, we'll hold our breath over principle. What we see every day is pork.

TUMULTY: You know, this is the exercise we see in Washington, whenever you open a tax bill up, even when you open the door a tiny bit, there's nothing that gets the lobbyists going faster. So this was completely predictable, and they basically bought off a lot of those Democrats with that tobacco provision.

DOBBS: And the vice presidential nominee for Senator Kerry, as soon as he accepts his party's nomination, who is it going to be, Karen?

TUMULTY: Well, you know, Lou, I happen to know the name but I am not going to disclose it on the air. Who knows? DOBBS: Roger, do you know what Karen knows?

SIMON: No, Karen knows much more than me and she isn't talking. Everyone is talking about Senator Edwards, but I think his supporters, you can't blame the senator himself, are dangerously close to having painted the nominee into a corner on Edwards and nominees don't like to be painted into corners. So if Edwards does not get it, I think this will be the reason, that his supporters just campaigned too hard for it.

MORRISON: I think there probably is that in the equation, but I think if anything is clear from the way the Democrats are acting in this campaign, they are going to figure out what it takes to get elected and Edwards is a candidate who brings a lot of possible upside, both in terms of the energy, the hard campaigner he is, and some of the swing states along the Mississippi River and south that might actually come into play with a candidate like that on the ticket.

DOBBS: This is an unfortunate way to conclude our discussion here this evening, but Paul Johnson, beheaded. His body found in Riyadh. Is there, in your judgment, a sense that this administration -- Karen, I'm going to begin with you -- has been, frankly, incapable of stopping this kinds of violence, as difficult as it is to do, or at least bringing to justice the many people they have said that they will be bringing to justice, for the murder of Nicholas Berg, for the deaths of the four private contractors in Iraq whose bodies were mutilated? What is the political impact, Karen?

TUMULTY: Well, you certainly don't hear the president anymore using phrases like, "wanted dead or alive," the sorts of things that he did right after 9/11. The fact is that Americans are learning a lot about what the world is like these days and how difficult it really is. In some ways it's harder to go after the perpetrators of something like this, you know, a terrorist act against an individual, than it is to send an army, and so as a result, the president has been using these sorts of incidents a lot on the campaign trail. He talks about them a lot, and it really, as much as anything, to sort of keep people focused on terrorism.

DOBBS: Roger, is that an effective approach?

SIMON: It's one of the few we have. We lack -- unfortunately, the face of modern terrorism is that we lack targets. We're not going to bomb Saudi Arabia because this heinous and disgusting crime took place there.

MORRISON: But unfortunately what we're seeing this week is that we have so many targets out there in so many places and our vulnerabilities have been showing both in the 9/11 report and now in these tragic incidents later in the week, and all of this makes the American people nervous, business nervous, the stock market nervous and it's going to play out in the election as well.

DOBBS: And without an effective response, a truly effective response by the government so to this point. Mark Morrison, Roger Simon, Karen Tumulty, thank you, all three.

Mexican President Vicente Fox is wrapping up his three-day tour in the Midwestern United States tonight. President Fox was in Illinois, Michigan and Minnesota and now in Chicago. President Bush blasted -- President Fox rather, blasted the United States for rounding up illegal aliens and sending those illegal aliens back to Mexico. President Fox said his government will not permit what he called violations of the human and labor rights of Mexicans who live in the United States.

But we found some interesting statistics showing that Mexico and perhaps Vicente Fox might refocus his efforts a bit. For example, in 2003, Mexico's unemployment rate was 3.3 percent, but you are considered to be employed in Mexico if you work just one hour each week. Mexico also has an underemployment rate, but that underemployment rate is as high as 25 percent. Nearly 40 percent of President Fox's population lives on less than $2 a day, and an estimated 40 percent of Mexicans are living below the poverty line. President Fox, despite all of his rhetoric in Chicago, just might want to consider focusing on issues at home, south of the border.

Many of you wrote in about the story we brought you last night on President Fox, and "Broken Borders" and here are some of your thoughts.

Jacqueline Donaldson of Portland, Oregon. "President Fox is fighting for the rights of the Mexican citizens to get work visas and permanent legal status in this country. Isn't his job to provide these people with jobs in their own country?

And Barbara in Roy, Utah. "Here is an original thought. Instead of President Fox coming to the United States to lobby for the rights of persons who aren't supposed to be here anyway, he should spend the time working towards bettering the Mexican economy so those persons aren't compelled to risk their lives and abandon their country and families to seek employment."

And F. Lynn in Chicago, Illinois. "How can our government fix our broken borders if we continue to permit the President of Mexico to come to the United States to demand all kinds of benefits for Mexicans living here illegally."

Candice Hesson of Mason, Arizona. "Please do not feign disbelief of the government's inability to protect our borders. Here in Arizona, it's painfully obvious to all that mention anything less than opening our southern border and providing full amnesty and government financial support to all that come across is instantly categorized as racist."

Send us your comments, CNN.com/lou. We'll have more of your thoughts later here in the broadcast.

An alarming report tonight on the western drought about which we've reported extensively here. Scientists now have evidence that the drought that grips much of the western United States is in fact the worst in 500 years. The U.S. Geological Survey says the current level and flow of the Colorado River is at its lowest point on record. Less than half what it was from 1930 to 1937, a period known as the Dust Bowl years. Experts say there is no way to tell when this drought will end. For now, officials are seeking alternative water sources for the 25 million people who live in the western United States.

Still ahead here tonight, your thoughts on the approval of a massive tax cut for corporate America by your representatives in Congress.

Also tonight, exporting innovation. High quality, high technology jobs flooding out of the country. Intellectual capital and our knowledge base going with them. Marcus Courtney, the head of one of the country's largest workers alliance is joining us. He's fighting to put a stop to it.

In "Heroes" tonight, a Medivac pilot in Afghanistan returns from a year at war to rejoin his life at home. We'll have his story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Marcus Courtney is the head of one of the country's largest workers association. He says the United States is exporting far more than jobs, he says we're exporting innovation. Courtney says that a lack of congressional action on this issue is simply outrageous. He's the president of WashTech and joins us tonight from Seattle, Washington.

Marcus, good to have you here. At this point, you have managed to just recently discover that Microsoft had been outsourcing in directions and with jobs that no one was with a aware of. Tell us a bit about that.

MARCUS COURTNEY, PRESIDENT WASHTECH: Absolutely. What we discovered was the smoking gun documents that Microsoft, as far back as 2001, has been involved in exporting America's highest level jobs in technology, such as senior developer, software architecture, overseas in order to slash its labor costs. This is not only a threat to America's middle class economic security, this is a threat to America's future ability to innovate, because it is the software developers and architects that create and drive innovation in this country.

DOBBS: How has your membership been reacting to the discovery that Microsoft, and we all know there are other companies as well doing precisely the same thing, had been exporting high level jobs?

COURTNEY: Well, we have a lot of senior developers and software architects in our membership and we have been hearing from them, that they are qualified and competent and they could be doing those jobs. And in Seattle area, we have a 10 percent unemployment level amongst high tech workers and they're saying, why aren't we given an opportunity to have these jobs instead of Microsoft, as well as other leading high tech companies, just instantly send them overseas without being fair to American workers. DOBBS: One of the traps in this debate over the outsourcing of jobs to cheap overseas labor markets, Marcus it seems to me, is that we make a distinction between a relatively low paying job or a high valued job, a professional job, when in point of fact, and I'd like to have your comment on this, it seems to me at least, we should be concerned about all American jobs that are exported purely on the basis of labor cost.

COURTNEY: Oh, I totally agree with you. One of the things that I think these documents expose, the fact is that whether you are a software architect, a manufacturing worker or a textile worker, your job is subject to being exported overseas irrespective of education or skill level. And as we continue to export jobs in manufacturing, textiles, and now in high-end white collar service sector jobs, we are hurting the growth of the American economy. We are also driving down wages and benefits for workers in this country.

And we really have to move beyond the notion that it is just a jobs question, but it's also an innovation question and a future, what do we want the American economy to look like and how can we innovate and keep our economy strong in the future.

DOBBS: Marcus Courtney, we thank you for being with us. Marcus Courtney, the head of WashTech.

COURTNEY: Thank you, Lou. Great to be here.

DOBBS: The Department of Commerce today proposed new tariffs on more than $1 billion of wooden bedroom furniture exported from China. The Commerce Department says those imports into this country from China are now being sold in the United States at less than fair market value.

This anti-dumping action is the largest of many cases brought by U.S. manufacturers against Chinese competitors. A final decision is expected in December. Labor Secretary Elaine Cho, Commerce Secretary Donald Evans will be travelling to China to have a few talks next week. Those talks aimed at boosting U.S. Exports and reducing the record U.S. trade deficit with China.

That brings us to the subject of our poll. A man's country -- excuse me, subject of our poll to tonight's thought, if I may. "A man's country is not a certain area of land of mountains, rivers and woods, but it is a principle. And patriotism is loyalty to that principle." American author George William Curtis.

Six people in a St. Louis suburb today set a new record, riding a ferris wheel for three days in a row. They began riding a 180-foot high ferris wheel at a Six Flags amusement park at 11:00 a.m. last Tuesday. A Six Flags spokeswoman said there was no existing world record for continuously riding a ferris wheel, but "Guiness World Records" set 24 hours as the benchmark. Congratulations, all.

In coming up next here. In "Heroes" tonight, a medivac pilot returns from fighting the war on terror, an experience that has changed his life forever. We'll have his story. And "America Works" celebrating honoring the men and women who work throughout this country and make this country work. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: In "Heroes" tonight, Major Jim Bibb of Santa Fe, New Mexico. This medivac helicopter pilot has just returned after nearly a year in Afghanistan, where he flew wounded soldiers and civilians out of harm's way. Casey Wian has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Major Jim Bibb's life is a full one. At 33, he's been in the National Guard for 15 years, and become an accomplished helicopter pilot. He's also an attorney, and with wife Kristina, is raising five children. He just got back from nearly a year in Afghanistan, flying medivac.

MAJ. JIM BIBB, NATIONAL GUARD: The second night we were there, our compound was rocketed and that was a wakeup call that you're not in friendly territory anymore.

WIAN: Bibb led a team that rescued injured coalition soldiers, but it was an incident involving a civilian that he can't forget.

BIBB: We were called in the mountains of central Afghanistan to rescue an 11-year-old boy who was a gunshot victim in the middle of the night, low illumination. We did the mission. It was very rewarding.

WIAN: The boy recovered and was sent back to his village.

BIBB: Within a few days of being sent back to his village, he was strung up by the town leaders. It was a very pro al Qaeda town. Mentally, that messes with you, because I risked my life and my crew to do something I felt was very rewarding, only to have that happen to that boy. So once that happened, I knew mentally I had to toughen up, because we were in for a long haul.

WIAN: Bibb had an opportunity to transport many more Afghan children to U.S. hospitals with better results.

BIBB: Obviously, we were there to support our own servicemen, but to actually give something back to the kids by helping them out, and that helped take away the sting of being separated from my kids.

WIAN: For Bibb's growing family it was a long year.

BIBB: My 4-year-old just wants his daddy back. He understands that people need to be taken to the hospital, but after a while, he was wondering why someone else couldn't take people to the hospital so daddy could come home.

WIAN: Home just over a month, Bibb says he'll stay in the National Guard to train his medical unit so it's ready for its next deployment. Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in our poll tonight. The question, "should the U.S. military outsource security contracts to private contractors. Yes or no. Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have the results for you coming up here in just a few minutes.

Still ahead, some of your thoughts on a House passage of a huge tax cut for corporate America.

And "America Works." The remarkable story tonight of a chef in California. He is, again, proof that America works.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Tonight as we celebrate the men and women who make this country work we introduce you to Bud Corbin. He's retiring this week for the third time. His job as a chef cooking for and teaching developmentally disabled adults has a way of pulling him always back to the kitchen. Bill Tucker has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How many people do you know that feel this way about their work?

BUD CORBIN, CHEF: Absolutely love it, enjoy it thoroughly. Retired twice. Came back. And just been a wonderful, wonderful career.

TUCKER: Bud Corbin has been cooking for 40 years, by his count. He got his start in the Navy.

CORBIN: I've cooked most of my life, and it's just what I love to do. I love to cook.

TUCKER: For the last several years, Bud has run the kitchen at St. Madeleine's Sophie's Center near San Diego and as much a part of his job as preparing meals was preparing developmentally disabled adults to take new jobs in the community and develop their independence.

CORBIN: This is James and John.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

CORBIN: That's John. Very good workers.

We'll follow the top of it and we'll put it on the end of the table. OK, put it down on the end of the table. That will be our dessert.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've been with Bud now probably about a year and a half. I don't want him to retire, but I have to accept it. CORBIN: I was nominated for a special award. It was the American Professional Chef's Association, and they awarded -- it was the first award they awarded, and it was a Silver Spoon award, and I feel very proud of that.

DEBRA TURNER, ST. MADELEINE SOPHIE'S CENTER: What he has meant is something greater than probably the center itself. It's people that make a difference here.

TUCKER: Bud retired on June 15 for the third time. People seem to think that this one will stick. June 15 was officially declared Bud Corbin day in El Cajon, California. Bill Tucker, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Let's look at some more of your thoughts, this time on yesterday's House passage of that massive tax cut for corporate America.

Jeanne Goodsell of Cardiff-By-The-Sea in California. "The people who are supposed to be representing us are only looking out for themselves. Very few are looking at the big picture or appear to care what happens to our country. Let's vote the scoundrels out!"

G. Franklin in Chicago, Illinois. "With all of your coverage of how upset Americans are about outsourcing and illegal entry of immigrants into the United States, it hasn't made one bit of difference in how our Congress votes. Isn't it obvious that Congress is working for corporate America and not the American people?"

And Betty in Gilroy, California. "I feel like the American people are under assault. The big corporations are sending our jobs overseas and making obscene profits. Our politicians are helping them send the jobs away and using our tax money to subsidize the exodus. Then the government is urging the flow of illegals to take the jobs that are left.

Send us your thoughts at CNN.com/lou. Still ahead here, we'll have the results of tonight's poll. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight, not many undecideds among you. 93 percent of you said the U.S. military should not outsource security contracts at all to private contractors. Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us Monday. Ohio Congressman Sherrod Brown on his fight to stop the exporting of American jobs.

And Bruce Weinstein, the ethics guy on the ethics of outsourcing. And James Bamford, author of "A Pretext For War" on what he calls a critical spy drain facing America.

For all of us here, have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Aired June 18, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST, LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: Tonight, as feared, savagery in Saudi Arabia. Radical Islamists behead American hostage Paul Johnson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: There's no justification whatsoever for his murder. And yet they killed him in cold blood.

DOBBS: The Pentagon is outsourcing security. The Pentagon awards a $300 million security contract in Iraq to a foreign company. P.W. Singer, author of "Corporate Warriors," joins us. We'll be talking about the rise of privatized military - or are they really mercenaries?

Shocking new evidence tonight that even highly-skilled technology workers are losing their jobs to cheap overseas labor. Marcus Courtney of WashTech is our guest.

More than 2 million American troops face a new threat tonight, from United Nations Secretary Kofi Annan. The secretary general is now demanding U.S. troops lose their immunity from international war crimes trials.

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL: I think it should be unfortunate for one to press for such an assumption, given the prisoner abuse in Iraq.

DOBBS: And anger and outrage after the president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, declares he will defend Mexicans in America from what he calls human rights abuses, raids by U.S. authorities in California. We'll have a special report.

ANNOUCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT for Friday, June 18. Here now, for an hour of news, debate and opinion, is Lou Dobbs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Good evening. Tonight, cold-blooded, savage murder in Saudi Arabia. Radical Islamists beheaded American hostage Paul Johnson. The al Qaeda terrorists killed Johnson one week after he was kidnapped in Riyadh.

And tonight, Arab television networks are reporting that the leader of the al Qaeda cell responsible for his murder has been killed. So far, we do not have confirmation of these early reports, and President Bush (AUDIO GAP) radical Islamist website late today, from a group calling itself the Fallujah Squadron.

The statement said Johnson "...got his fair share from this life and for him to taste a bit of what the Muslims have been suffering from Apache helicopter attacks and they were tortured by its missiles."

Shortly after that announcement was posted, Saudi security officials found Johnson's body in Eastern Riyadh.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We, of course, totally condemn this action as an action of barbarism, and action that shows, once again, what the world is dealing with, with these kinds of individuals who behead somebody or murder somebody in cold blood, an innocent individual who was just trying to help people and trying to do his job.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Johnson is the latest victim of an escalating al Qaeda campaign that targets westerners. The al Qaeda goal is to drive foreign workers from the kingdom and bring down the royal family. The 49-year-old engineer worked on Apache helicopter systems for Lockheed Martin.

As news came of his death, Lockheed Martin issued this statement: "All we can say is we're very distressed, very disheartened and are dealing with the family."

Earlier this week, Abdul Aziz Al Muqrin, the self-proclaimed military leader of al Qaeda in Saudi Arabia, threatened to kill Johnson within 72 hours unless the Saudi government released the al Qaeda prisoners and westerners left the Arabian Peninsula.

The State Department reiterated its warning to the 30,000 Americans living in the country to leave, saying it expects further attacks.

And President Bush strongly condemned the murder of Johnson today. Speaking in Seattle, the president said the terrorists responsible for the murder are barbaric people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: There's no justification whatsoever for his murder. And yet they killed him in cold blood. And it should remind us that we must pursue these people and bring them to justice before they hurt other Americans. See, they're trying to intimidate America. They're trying to shake our will. They're trying to get us to retreat from the world. America will not retreat. America will not be intimidated by these kinds of extremist thugs. May God bless Paul Johnson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: Tonight, a top Saudi diplomat in Washington said Saudi authorities did everything possible to find Johnson before he was killed, and he is deeply sorry. He said they failed.

The diplomat said his government will hunt down the terrorists responsible for Johnson's murder.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADEL AL-JUBEIR, SAUDI EMBASSY SPOKESMAN: This is an attack against humanity. This is an attack against decency. This is an attack against the innocent. This is an attack against the universal values that we all share as human beings, and this is something that requires a response from all of us. There is no justification whatsoever for doing harm to the innocent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DOBBS: My guest says the Saudi authorities have nearly always refused to cooperate with the United States in any investigation of terrorism in Saudi Arabia. Sergeant Major Eric Haney is a former Special Forces soldier, a member of Delta Force, the author of "Inside Delta Force, the Story of America's Elite Counter Terrorist Unit," joining us tonight from CNN Center.

Good to have you with us.

SGT. MAJOR ERIC HANEY, FORMER SPECIAL OPS.: Good evening.

DOBBS: This murder, what profit is there in it for al Qaeda?

HANEY: Well, it establishes the bonafides that they will do this, that they will continue to do it. And it also spreads the great fear within the westerners within the kingdom of Saudi Arabia to start leaving.

And a number of those have already done so. In fact, the State Department has been advising Americans, if they possibly can, to go ahead and depart the kingdom.

DOBBS: You, as a former member of Delta Force -- is the United States effectively helpless here to do anything about the murder of one of its citizens, just as we were just about a month ago in the murder, the beheading of Nicholas Berg Iraq?

HANEY: The short and sad answer is yes. We've never had real cooperation from Saudi monarchy and authorities in Saudi Arabia on anything having to do with the home-grown terrorism. And we have to remember, Islamic extremism's homeland, it's ideological source comes from within the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and the monarchy has been greatly complicitous (ph) with it throughout its history.

DOBBS: What's it mean?

HANEY: What I mean by that, just the theocracy -- the fact that the Saudi monarchy is a theocratic organization, that it has support from the extreme expression of Islam within Saudi Arabia -- and that goes back centuries with the Al-Saud family with that tribe. It's what gives a legitimacy to a monarchy that's really on the ropes within its own kingdom. It's widely despised and held in disrepute by a large segment of the Saudi population.

DOBBS: Eric, I want to just give you the latest that we have here at CNN just now. We have now confirmed -- CNN has confirmed that the leader of the al Qaeda cell, the Saudi al Qaeda cell, Abdul Aziz Al Muqrin, has been killed, apparently by Saudi security forces.

We are unclear, at this point, as to when that action took place, and we do know in Riyadh, where the body of Paul Johnson was found, in eastern Riyadh, and, of course, we will be bringing you the details as they are forthcoming here on CNN.

Eric, if indeed, the Saudi security forces have been successful in killing Al Muqrin, how significant, how important?

HANEY: Well, there are two things that are in play here. One is the fact that you cannot take terrorists alive. It just becomes a source for more terrorist activity if you place them in jail and hold them on trial, as the Germans learned dealing with Bauder Meinhof (ph) in that organization 30 and 35 years ago.

On the other side of that coin, though, in the last several years, any time that the Saudis have gained custody of terrorists or those who have opposed the government and have committed acts against the United States, those people have been almost immediately executed before American authorities can interrogate them or at least gain some intelligence from those people.

DOBBS: The idea that the United States would have people, whether in Saudi Arabia or any other sovereign state in the world, without the ability to defend its citizens, there because of commercial reasons, first and foremost obviously in Saudi Arabia, should the United States government have the ability to bring in Delta Force, Special Operations forces to protect Americans?

HANEY: We will probably never deploy those kinds of forces within the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, but I will give you this: the Special Operations forces of Saudi Arabia for several years have been trained by some of my former comrades, old guys who are real professionals in this, and it's a long, hard process, though, to bring those organizations in Saudi Arabia up to a position of credibility and capability.

They're working towards it, but just this: the monarchy is probably, given the current situation, looking at moving really close to its death rows. It's hard to even pick up news inside of Saudi Arabia. As you know, CNN is just not on the street with cameras, nor any other foreign news agencies. The monarchy is, for all intents and purposes, internally a police state. So you get what comes through the filter, and that's exacerbated the problem over the decades.

DOBBS: To the degree, Eric, that we do have some control over what the United States engages in around the world, commercially, politically, strategically, there was a time when this country, in a much simpler world admittedly, could - this country could say that, if you kill an American citizen, you will be dealing with the U.S. military and the power of this nation. Now we hear a lot of rhetoric. We hear people deploring the death of an American citizen, whether, in this instance, obviously Paul Johnson. Is it time for this country to rethink its rather passive response to these kinds of atrocities?

HANEY: It really is. But in the past, generally, rhetoric is what we've issued. When we go back, Bill Buckley, the chief of station in Beirut...

DOBBS: Right.

HANEY: ...was captured and murdered. Colonel Hinckley, a Marine who was working in the Middle East, was captured and murdered. Our embassy in Beirut was blown up. Our response to all of those and other situations has been rhetoric.

The great difficulty that we face right now, particularly with Saudi Arabia, is that Saudi money reaches so deeply into the political influence in this nation, and we're going to have - our leaders, both parties, down to even third level appointees, are going to have to make a conscious and clean break from that sort of thing, recognize the situation as it exists on the ground in the Middle East and take some firm, mature and wise steps towards working to a solution.

And that solution's not going to happen overnight, Lou. We're looking at something for the next two generations, much like the Cold War was for you and I.

DOBBS: You referred to Colonel Hinckley and Beirut. Were you referring to Colonel Higgins?

HANEY: Colonel Higgins, yes. Pardon me. Yes indeed.

DOBBS: And I just wanted to get that forward. I had the privilege of, along with many of my colleagues here, of being on the ship named for Colonel Higgins, the USS Higgins. And I appreciate, Eric, your time and your thoughts. Come back soon.

HANEY: Certainly, sir.

DOBBS: Eric Haney, former Sergeant Major in the Delta Force.

Later here in the broadcast, I'll be talking, of course, about today's events in Saudi Arabia, the heinous murder of Paul Johnson, implications for our relations with Saudi Arabia and, of course, the war on terror worldwide.

We'll be talking with our panel of leading journalists, Karen Tumulty of "Time," Roger Simon, "U.S. News & World Report," Mark Morrison of "BusinessWeek."

In Iraq today, insurgents killed an American soldier in a mortar attack on a U.S. base in Baghdad. In a separate incident north of Baghdad today, U.S. troops killed at least five insurgents in a battle near the town of Baquba. There were no American casualties. Coalition officials say Iraqi is likely to resume, by the way, oil exports this Sunday from the south of the country. Insurgent attacks on that 300-mile pipeline have shut it down. All oil exports have been stopped from Iraq, but at least the Basra pipeline will be opening this Sunday.

The United States is also fighting a diplomatic battle tonight, of course, to stop an outrageous demand by United Nations Secretary Kofi Annan that could affect more than 2 million American troops. Kofi Annan is now demanding that American troops should no longer be shielded from international war crimes and charges resulting from those crimes.

Kitty Pilgrim has the report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kofi Annan says the United States should not try to seek immunity from the international criminal court for its troops on peacekeeping missions.

ANNAN: I think it would be unfortunate for one to press for the assumption, given the prisoner abuse in Iraq.

PILGRIM: The Bush administration has strongly resisted subjecting U.S. soldiers to prosecution by the international court. The fear is U.S. soldiers could be left open to politically-motivated war crimes prosecution by the international community.

The Bush administration says the U.S. military justice system is sufficient to investigate and prosecute any wrongdoing. So each year, the United States has asked for an exemption. But recent incidents at Abu Ghraib have inflamed the debate.

The United States has to apply for the exemption each year through a U.N. Resolution. The current one expires at the end of June. U.N. Security Council members expected to support the United States so far are Pakistan, Philippines, Russia, United Kingdom, Algeria and Angola. Those expected to abstain, Chile, France, Germany, Romania, Spain, Benin, Brazil and China. At that count, not enough for the nine votes needed for the exemption.

RICHARD DICKER, DIRECTOR, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: The Bush administration, in the next few days, has an important decision to make. Will they just let the resolution expire or will they, at the risk of a very divisive fight, at the Security Council, insist on renewing it.

I thought the secretary general was urging, on behalf of the U.S. close allies, just let this go. Don't push this for renewal. Let it expire. (END VIDEOTAPE)

PILGRIM: There's a high-level meeting at the U.N. to discuss the resolution this afternoon. More than 40 countries are requesting an open meeting that the U.N., all 191 members, to discuss the issue, and it will potentially be another tense debate for the United States at the U.N. in the week to come -- Lou.

DOBBS: Just how important is this resolution? And what should we make of Kofi Annan's aggressive action against U.S. interests?

PILGRIM: It was fairly verbally aggressive and, given that it has to come to a vote very quickly, it's timed very carefully. The fact is this is important to the United States. We have tried to exempt our troops from this many years, and now...

DOBBS: Successfully.

PILGRIM: Very successfully, and this is one time that we're really going to have a tough battle.

DOBBS: Thank you very much. Kitty Pilgrim.

DOBBS: Congress, tonight, is on a collision course with the White House and the Pentagon over the size of the U.S. Army. Last night, the Senate called for an increase of at least 20,000 soldiers. The vote follows a similar measure in the House of Representatives.

But the White House and the Pentagon are resisting any increase, any permanent increase, in our military strength. Officials say that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has already approved a temporary increase, but they will continue to resist any permanent increase.

Still ahead here, the president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, he's back in this country accusing the United States of human rights violations against Mexicans in America and declaring that he will protect his citizens who live in this country. We'll have a report.

And we'll share with you some of our viewer's thoughts about Fox's highly provocative comments.

The Pentagon awards a huge security contract in Iraq to a foreign company. Is the Pentagon privatizing the military or is it simply hiring mercenaries? My guest is P.W. Singer, author of "Corporate Warriors."

And if you thought your job was safe from overseas outsourcing, well, don't be so sure. High-skilled technology workers are losing their jobs now to cheap overseas labor markets. Marcus Courtney, WashTech is my guest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The Pentagon has just awarded a massive security contract in Iraq to a private company, a private foreign company. The company is Aegis Defense Services of Britain, the deal worth nearly $300 million. And some critics say that deal exposes huge problems in the way the U.S. government is handling private contracts.

About 20,000 civilians are now working in private security firms in Iraq. A private contractor provides, in those instances, security guards for Paul Bremer, the head of the Coalition Provisional Authority. Armed western civilians are also protecting the interim Iraqi prime minister, Iyad Allawi.

Joining me now is P.W. Singer, a fellow at the Brookings Institution, author of "Corporate Warriors: The Rise of Privatized Military Industry."

P.W., good to have you with us.

P.W. SINGER, AUTHOR, "CORPORATE WARRIORS": Thank you.

DOBBS: Let's start with Aegis first of all. That's an unusual contract. I know you had some serious reservations about it. Why?

SINGER: Well, it's really interesting. First of all is the question of why we're turning this contract over to a private company anyway. It's doing oversight and management of security in Iraq. That should be a job for people in the government, either our military or the Iraqi military, whatever one we start off in the future.

But beyond it, there are some real questions about this firm itself. The company's never done anything major in Iraq before. Its only past experience was anti-piracy work. And the CEO of the company has been involved in two very questionable circumstances in his background. One was illegally shipping over 30 tons of weapons to West Africa. The other was a role in a failed army mutiny in Papua New Guinea.

This is a character, if they'd simply bothered to Google him, a lot of stuff would come up, and they didn't even do that.

DOBBS: A remarkable story, Aegis Defense Systems. But Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, as you know, says we don't need more troops. Meanwhile, there are 20,000 private contractors carrying out security roles in Iraq. So one could question whether we need more troops or not.

Are we, in your judgment, simply using private security so that the Pentagon doesn't have to, in any way, give a tip of the hat to the fact they need more American Army troops in Iraq?

SINGER: What's driving this market is not economic cost savings, but political cost savings, not having to call up more troops, not having to call up more National Guard and Reserves, not having to admit you were wrong about some of the assumptions you went into Iraq about, but also avoiding some of the political costs of casualties, because while you have 20,000 private military contractors there, about the equivalent of an Army division, they've also been taking the equivalent of an Army division's worth of casualties.

Somewhere, depending on who's doing the counting, between 90 and 100 private military contractors have been killed. Another 300 to 400 have been wounded. None of that's been publicly reported before, and that's a way of displacing some of the political cost.

DOBBS: And there is no expression of concern, at least as far as I can judge, from Congress about the use of these private contractors, whether they be foreign companies or whether they be American. Plainly, simply, straightforwardly put, aren't these people, in fact, mercenaries?

SINGER: Well, they're the evolution of mercenaries, because they're not operating as individuals. These are corporations that are out there. These are private business entities. Some of them are Fortune 50 firms, divisions within them, so it's the next step of the mercenary trade, so to speak.

And Congress, you know, can play a role in this, but unfortunately has dropped the ball. In fact, there was an amendment put out there just a couple days ago to try and, for example, restrict private contractors from doing controversial stuff like prison interrogations, like at Abu Ghraib, or to financially punish firms that mess up, firms that overbill the U.S. military. And guess what? Congress defeated that. That's why we're not seeing much action on this.

DOBBS: So while everyone is critical or a lot of people are critical of the Pentagon, the Bush administration, there is plenty of room, in your judgment, for criticism of Congress for not maintaining its responsibilities here.

SINGER: At the end of the day, we need to guard our interests as clients. We're the clients in the industry here. We need to make the smart decisions, choosing the best firms, oversight and managing in the best way, setting up the regulatory mechanisms so that there's some accountability to this.

And, you know, that burden falls on the civilian leadership at the Pentagon. And if they're not going to do it right, then it falls onto Congress to rein them in. Neither of those has happened sufficiently right now.

DOBBS: P.W. Singer, we thank you for being with us.

SINGER: Thank you.

DOBBS: Author of "Corporate Warriors," and there are more than a few now working for the United States government around the world, especially in Iraq.

That brings us to the subject of tonight's poll. The question: should the U.S. military outsource security contracts to private contractors -- or, if you prefer, mercenaries? Yes or no? Cast your vote at CNN.com/Lou. We'll have the results, of course, coming up later.

Scientists, tonight, say they have found a unique object in the solar system. It's a comet named Wild 2. It was examined closely by NASA's Stardust Spacecraft. Scientists found the three-mile wide comet has towering protrusions and steep walled caverns different from any other comet ever studied. They described Wild 2's condition as pristine on its first trip to the inner solar system. NASA scientists say the comet was formed 4.5 billion years ago, just after the birth of our own sun.

When we continue here, exporting American jobs and American know- how to the lowest bidder. Marcus Courtney, president of technology worker alliance WashTech is our guest.

Also, tonight, heroes -- tonight, we introduce to you a National Guardsman who returned from a year in Afghanistan to his family and his career. His story is coming up.

And dire conditions in western states tonight, as we have been reporting here extensively, the drought that now grips much of the west is the worst drought in centuries. It threatens tens of millions of western residents. We'll have that story and a great deal more coming right up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues. Here now for more news, debate and opinion. Lou Dobbs.

DOBBS: I'm joined now by three of this country's top journalists. Joining us tonight from Washington, Karen Tumulty, national political correspondent "Time" magazine.

Good to have you with us, Karen.

Roger Simon, national political editor, "U.S. News & World Report." Good evening, Roger.

And here in New York, none other than Mark Morrison, managing editor of "BusinessWeek" magazine. Good to have you here, Mark.

MARK MORRISON, MANAGING EDITOR, "BUSINESSWEEK": Thanks, Lou.

DOBBS: Lets, Roger, begin with you first on the Middle East. We are now less than two weeks away from the handover. In your judgment, what is the situation? How serious is it?

ROGER SIMON, NATIONAL POLITICAL EDITOR, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": Throughout the Middle East or are we talking about Iraq?

DOBBS: Iraq.

SIMON: It continues to be serious, but there are obviously reasons for hope. The fact that we are turning over power to the Iraqi government, the fact that we're beginning the first steps of, in President Bush's words, putting an Iraqi face on the defense of Iraq so that U.S. troops can eventually be withdrawn, are all positive signs.

DOBBS: And significant for improvement, if you will, of President Bush's lot, politically here? SIMON: Certainly. Iraq has been a huge drag on his poll numbers. It has sentimented (ph) negative poll numbers for the first time, although in new polls he's back in positive territory. And Iraq has to be -- it has to be a light at the end of the tunnel by November 3 or he risks suffering the consequences of that at the polls.

DOBBS: Your thoughts, Karen?

TUMULTY: Well, the only problem with putting an Iraqi face on the whole handover operation is that Iraqis continue to die in Iraq at, you know, the rate of dozens a day. And while the administration had been very clear in predicting that this would happen, that there would actually be a step up in the insurgency the closer we got to June 30, for this to work, they are going to have to get some kind of handle on the security situation.

DOBBS: Another issue that is moving forward, Mark, is the role between these two parties, Democrats and Republicans on the issue of the middle class in this country. The Republicans passing what they called a Jobs Creation Bill. Yet another jobs creation bill but spending $140 billion to correct a $4 billion problem. What's your take on that legislation?

MORRISON: Well, it's just a disaster. It's full of pork and handouts to the tobacco industry and things that the country can't afford and it's a sign that our political system is not working correctly. Money is driving the process, and our politicians are not serving us very well.

DOBBS: And Roger, 48 Democrats crossed party lines to get over there and support what their party, the Democratic party said was an anti-worker bill. What's going on with the Democratic party?

SIMON: Pork is popular everywhere. Pork knows no party, Lou. Pork is politics. If you can bring money into your district, if you can bring a benefit to an industry in your state, especially tobacco, if you're in the tobacco state.

DOBBS: Are you going to give us an apology for pork? How about principle here?

SIMON: Yes, we'll hold our breath over principle. What we see every day is pork.

TUMULTY: You know, this is the exercise we see in Washington, whenever you open a tax bill up, even when you open the door a tiny bit, there's nothing that gets the lobbyists going faster. So this was completely predictable, and they basically bought off a lot of those Democrats with that tobacco provision.

DOBBS: And the vice presidential nominee for Senator Kerry, as soon as he accepts his party's nomination, who is it going to be, Karen?

TUMULTY: Well, you know, Lou, I happen to know the name but I am not going to disclose it on the air. Who knows? DOBBS: Roger, do you know what Karen knows?

SIMON: No, Karen knows much more than me and she isn't talking. Everyone is talking about Senator Edwards, but I think his supporters, you can't blame the senator himself, are dangerously close to having painted the nominee into a corner on Edwards and nominees don't like to be painted into corners. So if Edwards does not get it, I think this will be the reason, that his supporters just campaigned too hard for it.

MORRISON: I think there probably is that in the equation, but I think if anything is clear from the way the Democrats are acting in this campaign, they are going to figure out what it takes to get elected and Edwards is a candidate who brings a lot of possible upside, both in terms of the energy, the hard campaigner he is, and some of the swing states along the Mississippi River and south that might actually come into play with a candidate like that on the ticket.

DOBBS: This is an unfortunate way to conclude our discussion here this evening, but Paul Johnson, beheaded. His body found in Riyadh. Is there, in your judgment, a sense that this administration -- Karen, I'm going to begin with you -- has been, frankly, incapable of stopping this kinds of violence, as difficult as it is to do, or at least bringing to justice the many people they have said that they will be bringing to justice, for the murder of Nicholas Berg, for the deaths of the four private contractors in Iraq whose bodies were mutilated? What is the political impact, Karen?

TUMULTY: Well, you certainly don't hear the president anymore using phrases like, "wanted dead or alive," the sorts of things that he did right after 9/11. The fact is that Americans are learning a lot about what the world is like these days and how difficult it really is. In some ways it's harder to go after the perpetrators of something like this, you know, a terrorist act against an individual, than it is to send an army, and so as a result, the president has been using these sorts of incidents a lot on the campaign trail. He talks about them a lot, and it really, as much as anything, to sort of keep people focused on terrorism.

DOBBS: Roger, is that an effective approach?

SIMON: It's one of the few we have. We lack -- unfortunately, the face of modern terrorism is that we lack targets. We're not going to bomb Saudi Arabia because this heinous and disgusting crime took place there.

MORRISON: But unfortunately what we're seeing this week is that we have so many targets out there in so many places and our vulnerabilities have been showing both in the 9/11 report and now in these tragic incidents later in the week, and all of this makes the American people nervous, business nervous, the stock market nervous and it's going to play out in the election as well.

DOBBS: And without an effective response, a truly effective response by the government so to this point. Mark Morrison, Roger Simon, Karen Tumulty, thank you, all three.

Mexican President Vicente Fox is wrapping up his three-day tour in the Midwestern United States tonight. President Fox was in Illinois, Michigan and Minnesota and now in Chicago. President Bush blasted -- President Fox rather, blasted the United States for rounding up illegal aliens and sending those illegal aliens back to Mexico. President Fox said his government will not permit what he called violations of the human and labor rights of Mexicans who live in the United States.

But we found some interesting statistics showing that Mexico and perhaps Vicente Fox might refocus his efforts a bit. For example, in 2003, Mexico's unemployment rate was 3.3 percent, but you are considered to be employed in Mexico if you work just one hour each week. Mexico also has an underemployment rate, but that underemployment rate is as high as 25 percent. Nearly 40 percent of President Fox's population lives on less than $2 a day, and an estimated 40 percent of Mexicans are living below the poverty line. President Fox, despite all of his rhetoric in Chicago, just might want to consider focusing on issues at home, south of the border.

Many of you wrote in about the story we brought you last night on President Fox, and "Broken Borders" and here are some of your thoughts.

Jacqueline Donaldson of Portland, Oregon. "President Fox is fighting for the rights of the Mexican citizens to get work visas and permanent legal status in this country. Isn't his job to provide these people with jobs in their own country?

And Barbara in Roy, Utah. "Here is an original thought. Instead of President Fox coming to the United States to lobby for the rights of persons who aren't supposed to be here anyway, he should spend the time working towards bettering the Mexican economy so those persons aren't compelled to risk their lives and abandon their country and families to seek employment."

And F. Lynn in Chicago, Illinois. "How can our government fix our broken borders if we continue to permit the President of Mexico to come to the United States to demand all kinds of benefits for Mexicans living here illegally."

Candice Hesson of Mason, Arizona. "Please do not feign disbelief of the government's inability to protect our borders. Here in Arizona, it's painfully obvious to all that mention anything less than opening our southern border and providing full amnesty and government financial support to all that come across is instantly categorized as racist."

Send us your comments, CNN.com/lou. We'll have more of your thoughts later here in the broadcast.

An alarming report tonight on the western drought about which we've reported extensively here. Scientists now have evidence that the drought that grips much of the western United States is in fact the worst in 500 years. The U.S. Geological Survey says the current level and flow of the Colorado River is at its lowest point on record. Less than half what it was from 1930 to 1937, a period known as the Dust Bowl years. Experts say there is no way to tell when this drought will end. For now, officials are seeking alternative water sources for the 25 million people who live in the western United States.

Still ahead here tonight, your thoughts on the approval of a massive tax cut for corporate America by your representatives in Congress.

Also tonight, exporting innovation. High quality, high technology jobs flooding out of the country. Intellectual capital and our knowledge base going with them. Marcus Courtney, the head of one of the country's largest workers alliance is joining us. He's fighting to put a stop to it.

In "Heroes" tonight, a Medivac pilot in Afghanistan returns from a year at war to rejoin his life at home. We'll have his story next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Marcus Courtney is the head of one of the country's largest workers association. He says the United States is exporting far more than jobs, he says we're exporting innovation. Courtney says that a lack of congressional action on this issue is simply outrageous. He's the president of WashTech and joins us tonight from Seattle, Washington.

Marcus, good to have you here. At this point, you have managed to just recently discover that Microsoft had been outsourcing in directions and with jobs that no one was with a aware of. Tell us a bit about that.

MARCUS COURTNEY, PRESIDENT WASHTECH: Absolutely. What we discovered was the smoking gun documents that Microsoft, as far back as 2001, has been involved in exporting America's highest level jobs in technology, such as senior developer, software architecture, overseas in order to slash its labor costs. This is not only a threat to America's middle class economic security, this is a threat to America's future ability to innovate, because it is the software developers and architects that create and drive innovation in this country.

DOBBS: How has your membership been reacting to the discovery that Microsoft, and we all know there are other companies as well doing precisely the same thing, had been exporting high level jobs?

COURTNEY: Well, we have a lot of senior developers and software architects in our membership and we have been hearing from them, that they are qualified and competent and they could be doing those jobs. And in Seattle area, we have a 10 percent unemployment level amongst high tech workers and they're saying, why aren't we given an opportunity to have these jobs instead of Microsoft, as well as other leading high tech companies, just instantly send them overseas without being fair to American workers. DOBBS: One of the traps in this debate over the outsourcing of jobs to cheap overseas labor markets, Marcus it seems to me, is that we make a distinction between a relatively low paying job or a high valued job, a professional job, when in point of fact, and I'd like to have your comment on this, it seems to me at least, we should be concerned about all American jobs that are exported purely on the basis of labor cost.

COURTNEY: Oh, I totally agree with you. One of the things that I think these documents expose, the fact is that whether you are a software architect, a manufacturing worker or a textile worker, your job is subject to being exported overseas irrespective of education or skill level. And as we continue to export jobs in manufacturing, textiles, and now in high-end white collar service sector jobs, we are hurting the growth of the American economy. We are also driving down wages and benefits for workers in this country.

And we really have to move beyond the notion that it is just a jobs question, but it's also an innovation question and a future, what do we want the American economy to look like and how can we innovate and keep our economy strong in the future.

DOBBS: Marcus Courtney, we thank you for being with us. Marcus Courtney, the head of WashTech.

COURTNEY: Thank you, Lou. Great to be here.

DOBBS: The Department of Commerce today proposed new tariffs on more than $1 billion of wooden bedroom furniture exported from China. The Commerce Department says those imports into this country from China are now being sold in the United States at less than fair market value.

This anti-dumping action is the largest of many cases brought by U.S. manufacturers against Chinese competitors. A final decision is expected in December. Labor Secretary Elaine Cho, Commerce Secretary Donald Evans will be travelling to China to have a few talks next week. Those talks aimed at boosting U.S. Exports and reducing the record U.S. trade deficit with China.

That brings us to the subject of our poll. A man's country -- excuse me, subject of our poll to tonight's thought, if I may. "A man's country is not a certain area of land of mountains, rivers and woods, but it is a principle. And patriotism is loyalty to that principle." American author George William Curtis.

Six people in a St. Louis suburb today set a new record, riding a ferris wheel for three days in a row. They began riding a 180-foot high ferris wheel at a Six Flags amusement park at 11:00 a.m. last Tuesday. A Six Flags spokeswoman said there was no existing world record for continuously riding a ferris wheel, but "Guiness World Records" set 24 hours as the benchmark. Congratulations, all.

In coming up next here. In "Heroes" tonight, a medivac pilot returns from fighting the war on terror, an experience that has changed his life forever. We'll have his story. And "America Works" celebrating honoring the men and women who work throughout this country and make this country work. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: In "Heroes" tonight, Major Jim Bibb of Santa Fe, New Mexico. This medivac helicopter pilot has just returned after nearly a year in Afghanistan, where he flew wounded soldiers and civilians out of harm's way. Casey Wian has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Major Jim Bibb's life is a full one. At 33, he's been in the National Guard for 15 years, and become an accomplished helicopter pilot. He's also an attorney, and with wife Kristina, is raising five children. He just got back from nearly a year in Afghanistan, flying medivac.

MAJ. JIM BIBB, NATIONAL GUARD: The second night we were there, our compound was rocketed and that was a wakeup call that you're not in friendly territory anymore.

WIAN: Bibb led a team that rescued injured coalition soldiers, but it was an incident involving a civilian that he can't forget.

BIBB: We were called in the mountains of central Afghanistan to rescue an 11-year-old boy who was a gunshot victim in the middle of the night, low illumination. We did the mission. It was very rewarding.

WIAN: The boy recovered and was sent back to his village.

BIBB: Within a few days of being sent back to his village, he was strung up by the town leaders. It was a very pro al Qaeda town. Mentally, that messes with you, because I risked my life and my crew to do something I felt was very rewarding, only to have that happen to that boy. So once that happened, I knew mentally I had to toughen up, because we were in for a long haul.

WIAN: Bibb had an opportunity to transport many more Afghan children to U.S. hospitals with better results.

BIBB: Obviously, we were there to support our own servicemen, but to actually give something back to the kids by helping them out, and that helped take away the sting of being separated from my kids.

WIAN: For Bibb's growing family it was a long year.

BIBB: My 4-year-old just wants his daddy back. He understands that people need to be taken to the hospital, but after a while, he was wondering why someone else couldn't take people to the hospital so daddy could come home.

WIAN: Home just over a month, Bibb says he'll stay in the National Guard to train his medical unit so it's ready for its next deployment. Casey Wian, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in our poll tonight. The question, "should the U.S. military outsource security contracts to private contractors. Yes or no. Cast your vote at CNN.com/lou. We'll have the results for you coming up here in just a few minutes.

Still ahead, some of your thoughts on a House passage of a huge tax cut for corporate America.

And "America Works." The remarkable story tonight of a chef in California. He is, again, proof that America works.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: Tonight as we celebrate the men and women who make this country work we introduce you to Bud Corbin. He's retiring this week for the third time. His job as a chef cooking for and teaching developmentally disabled adults has a way of pulling him always back to the kitchen. Bill Tucker has his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How many people do you know that feel this way about their work?

BUD CORBIN, CHEF: Absolutely love it, enjoy it thoroughly. Retired twice. Came back. And just been a wonderful, wonderful career.

TUCKER: Bud Corbin has been cooking for 40 years, by his count. He got his start in the Navy.

CORBIN: I've cooked most of my life, and it's just what I love to do. I love to cook.

TUCKER: For the last several years, Bud has run the kitchen at St. Madeleine's Sophie's Center near San Diego and as much a part of his job as preparing meals was preparing developmentally disabled adults to take new jobs in the community and develop their independence.

CORBIN: This is James and John.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right.

CORBIN: That's John. Very good workers.

We'll follow the top of it and we'll put it on the end of the table. OK, put it down on the end of the table. That will be our dessert.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've been with Bud now probably about a year and a half. I don't want him to retire, but I have to accept it. CORBIN: I was nominated for a special award. It was the American Professional Chef's Association, and they awarded -- it was the first award they awarded, and it was a Silver Spoon award, and I feel very proud of that.

DEBRA TURNER, ST. MADELEINE SOPHIE'S CENTER: What he has meant is something greater than probably the center itself. It's people that make a difference here.

TUCKER: Bud retired on June 15 for the third time. People seem to think that this one will stick. June 15 was officially declared Bud Corbin day in El Cajon, California. Bill Tucker, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: Let's look at some more of your thoughts, this time on yesterday's House passage of that massive tax cut for corporate America.

Jeanne Goodsell of Cardiff-By-The-Sea in California. "The people who are supposed to be representing us are only looking out for themselves. Very few are looking at the big picture or appear to care what happens to our country. Let's vote the scoundrels out!"

G. Franklin in Chicago, Illinois. "With all of your coverage of how upset Americans are about outsourcing and illegal entry of immigrants into the United States, it hasn't made one bit of difference in how our Congress votes. Isn't it obvious that Congress is working for corporate America and not the American people?"

And Betty in Gilroy, California. "I feel like the American people are under assault. The big corporations are sending our jobs overseas and making obscene profits. Our politicians are helping them send the jobs away and using our tax money to subsidize the exodus. Then the government is urging the flow of illegals to take the jobs that are left.

Send us your thoughts at CNN.com/lou. Still ahead here, we'll have the results of tonight's poll. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight, not many undecideds among you. 93 percent of you said the U.S. military should not outsource security contracts at all to private contractors. Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us Monday. Ohio Congressman Sherrod Brown on his fight to stop the exporting of American jobs.

And Bruce Weinstein, the ethics guy on the ethics of outsourcing. And James Bamford, author of "A Pretext For War" on what he calls a critical spy drain facing America.

For all of us here, have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York. "ANDERSON COOPER 360" is next.

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