Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
Latest on Russian President Vladimir Putin's Allegations; 9/11 Commissioner James Thompson Discusses Results of Investigation
Aired June 18, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Was Saddam Hussein planning terror attacks against the U.S. inside the U.S.? Russian President Vladimir Putin shedding a whole new light today on the threat from Iraq.
The White House firing back in the media and the commission of 9/11. The vice president says he knows things that commission members may not.
And a killer whale looking for his family -- why some people say his family is human, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Welcome, everybody.
Some of the stories that are making headlines this morning, some breaking news coming to us from Russian President Vladimir Putin this morning, comments, saying that the Russian intelligence service warned the U.S. several times it had learned that Saddam Hussein was planning terrorist attacks against the United States. Of course, this could have significant bearing on the number of subjects, the 9/11 Commission, for one; the war in Iraq for another. We're going to get into all of that in just a few moments.
HEMMER: Jill Dougherty standing by live in Moscow. We'll get you there in a moment.
Also, a very interesting day of testimony in the Scott Peterson case. Does a pawn ticket prove that someone else had Laci Peterson's watch after she was killed? One of the first twists from defense attorney Mark Geragos as the trial unfolds. We'll talk to a prosecutor about what this evidence may mean in a moment here.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How you doing, Ms. O'Brien?
We're having some mailbox problems, computer glitches, which is why we haven't done any e-mails. But the gerbils are working on it and we should have it fixed, oh, by Sunday afternoon, something like that. So you may want to tune in then. Coming up in the Cafferty File, we'll bring you an update -- actually, we're going to revisit one of the funniest pieces of live television I can remember in a very long time. It has to do with that kid in Florida who punched an alligator in the nose and then went on national TV with my friend Bill Hemmer. It's just, we've got an update on the kid. But the video, it's just worth revisiting just to watch the tape.
And as promised yesterday, we were preempted by the commission hearings, but we are going to find out which body part men can now buy insurance for.
HEMMER: You call him gator boy, right? One of our viewers said he yawned like the MGM lion.
CAFFERTY: Is that right?
HEMMER: Full throttle.
O'BRIEN: He was on a lot of drugs, I think.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
We want to start this hour in Moscow.
As we mentioned last hour, a startling revelation today by Russian President Vladimir Putin -- Saddam Hussein was planning terror attacks against the U.S., inside the U.S. and outside after 9/11, and prior to the war. This according to Russian intelligence. Moscow passed the information to the White House before the war began.
Back to Moscow and our bureau chief Jill Dougherty.
Jill, what more have you learned -- good afternoon there.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they really are very interesting comments coming from Mr. Putin. He made them, by the way, out in Kazakhstan. And I want to see the full quotes from what he's saying. But what he initially, we're hearing, is very, very interesting.
He said that the Russian special services, the intelligence services, as partners and colleagues as they are with the United States, passed on this information several times, repeatedly was the word he used, information that Saddam Hussein's official forces, official services were plotting to carry out these terrorist attacks both in the United States and abroad, on both civilian and military targets.
Now, he pointedly said that they -- the Russians do not have any information that Iraq was actually involved in terrorist acts. And he also said that President Bush himself thanked the head of one of the Russian intelligence services for this information, which he considered very valuable.
So it raises a lot of questions. We really have to try to put this into context. But what he is saying sheds a completely different light on some things in the run-up, again, that period after 9/11 and up to the invasion of Iraq.
HEMMER: And, Jill, a couple of pointed questions here. You worked at the White House before you went for your tour or duty in Moscow, where we find you again today.
Why now? Why is Vladimir Putin just publicly speaking about this today?
DOUGHERTY: Well, it happened in a news conference, apparently. So it could be a follow-up to a leaked story that came out, in fact, yesterday. Nobody quite knew what it all meant. But it was apparently a leak from the Russian intelligence services with basically the same points that the president is making.
Now, you'd have to ask yourself if that is the case and Russia was against the war in Iraq, wouldn't that maybe sway Russia in toward the position of the United States to support the invasion of Iraq? Mr. Putin, in fact, was asked that question and he said no, the position of Russia remains the same. We were opposed to it, but it was on completely different grounds. He said it's a completely different issue. That, the invasion, he said, was, the issues there were international law, should you invade another country.
This is intelligence information. And, Bill, remember, Mr. Putin himself is a former KGB agent.
And then the other question is if this is the case, why didn't the Bush administration publicly use this or maybe even use it without saying who it came from? That question has to be given to the administration. But quite interesting to see what they would say...
HEMMER: The latter...
DOUGHERTY: ... because it would bolster their argument.
HEMMER: Indeed, you're right about that and that latter point you make, we'll try and sort that out on this side of the world here.
Another question, quickly, for you.
Did Vladimir Putin go to any extent to describe what sort of terror attacks were planned against the U.S., be it overseas or here in the U.S.?
DOUGHERTY: No. From what we know, he did not go into any specifics on that.
HEMMER: All right, Jill, thanks.
Good reporting.
Jill Dougherty there live in Moscow.
Much more when we get it -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: President Bush has said -- has not said, rather, that he used the Russian information in his decision to go to war. But he did warn of a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda. Questions about that assertion arose in the 9/11 Commission's report. The administration responds that the commission was only looking at whether Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They didn't spend a lot of time on the question of Iraq and al Qaeda, except for the 9/11 proposition. That's what they were asked to look at. They did not spend a lot of time on these other issues. They've got one paragraph in the report that talks about that.
So the notion that you can take one paragraph from the 9/11 Commission and say ah, therefore that says there never was a connection between Iraq and al Qaeda is just wrong. It's not true. I'd love to go on, on all of this stuff. But the fact of the matter is there clearly was a relationship there.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda. This administration never said that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated between Saddam and al Qaeda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Former Illinois Governor James Thompson is one of the commissioners who's going to prepare that final report on 9/11 next month.
He joins us this morning from Philadelphia.
Good morning, sir.
Nice to see you.
JAMES THOMPSON, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: So, we hear from both President Bush and Dick Cheney clearly there was a relationship.
Does your report contradict what the White House is saying?
THOMPSON: Not at all. In fact, the report says that President Bush and Vice President Cheney are correct. It's a little mystifying to me why some elements of the press have tried to stir this up as a big controversy and a big point of contradiction, because there is none.
We said there's no evidence to support the notion that al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein collaborated together to produce 9/11. President Bush said that weeks ago. He said it again yesterday. The vice president said it again yesterday. I said it again yesterday in television interviews. What we did say was there were contacts between al Qaeda and the Iraqi administration of Saddam Hussein. And the president has said there were contacts. The vice president has said there were contacts. They may be in possession of information about contacts beyond those that we found. I don't know. That wasn't any of our business. Our business was 9/11.
So there is no controversy. There's no contradiction and this is not an issue.
O'BRIEN: He actually said more than just contacts. He said clearly there's a relationship and there were these long established ties.
But you're saying essentially that you're both right, so I'm going to move on.
THOMPSON: Right.
O'BRIEN: Earlier, we talked to Commissioner Tim Roemer and he said what was most shocking to him was -- from all of this testimony now that you've reached the end -- was just the degree of flexibility that al Qaeda has.
When it comes, though, to the response of the United States in the wake of these terror attacks, what did you find most shocking in your investigation?
THOMPSON: I wouldn't put it in the category of shocking. I'd put it in the category of frustrating and saddening. For years and years and years, since before the cold war and even after the cold war, our defenses were pointed outward. The threat was always going to be a Soviet bomber coming over. We would intercept it over the ocean and we would respond to it by scrambling fighters and shooting it down.
No one, no one contemplated that on a single day four American airliners would be hijacked and used as missiles within the United States.
Under those circumstances, not having trained for it, not having prepared for it, I think the air traffic controllers, particularly in the Boston and Cleveland and New York centers, performed heroically. They did their job, which was made much more difficult by the hijackers' act of turning off the transponders. And then these planes slipped on and off radar.
And the pilots that went up did their job. But oftentimes they didn't know where to go. Some of them were not armed because they were on training exercises when they took off.
Now, there were miscommunications between the White House and the military. Vice President Cheney's order to shoot down the planes never got transmitted in time. By the time they got that order in the military, the plane had already crashed because of the actions of the passengers. And there were miscommunications between the FAA and NORAD.
And one of the things we pressed all these people on yesterday was to make sure that those issues had now been fixed. And they said they were.
O'BRIEN: And I guess the question would be, though, since so many of those issues -- for example, we heard from the head of NORAD that the issues, now that the planes could get up and theoretically they could take out four planes if something as horrible were to happen again -- but, again, you talked about miscues between the FAA and the air traffic controllers. Beyond this being an event that no one had ever anticipated or experienced before, it looked like, from your own testimony read yesterday, that there was an inability for the FAA to get in on a conference call, that there were no secure lines. Sort of the basic things seemed to be missing.
THOMPSON: Right.
O'BRIEN: Have those things all been fixed?
THOMPSON: They tell us now that they've been fixed. And, of course, we're much more ready to get planes up in the air if al Qaeda or any other terrorist group should go to that method of attack again. What I fear is that that over concentration on the use of American airliners as weapons, surely much harder now in view of the security you go through to get on an airplane and the fact that the cockpit doors are hardened and they won't open, even if the plane is taken over, we may overlook other, more common methods of creating mass casualties or creating mass panic among the American people in another attack, which everybody tells us is sure to follow.
O'BRIEN: They do.
Former Illinois Governor James Thompson joining us this morning.
Thank you, sir.
THOMPSON: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Appreciate it -- Bill.
HEMMER: We want to go inside the courtroom now; two, in fact, at 12 minutes past the hour.
Strange new developments in the Scott Peterson double murder trial.
District Attorney Jeanine Pirro from Westchester County, New York back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Good morning to you, Madam Prosecutor.
JEANINE PIRRO, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, WESTCHESTER COUNTY, NEW YORK: Good morning.
HEMMER: We wanted to take a look at something on the Web site for Court TV. An affiliate, a television affiliate in northern California saw juror number five going up to Laci Peterson's brother right at the metal detector there at the courthouse and had some sort of exchange that sounded like "lose today," the words from juror number five.
Is this appropriate?
PIRRO: Well, first of all, before we get all excited, we have to find out from the juror and from the other person to whom he spoke what was said. I mean it's inevitable that you're going to have jurors bumping into witnesses and participants in the trial. And it depends on what was said, whether or not it interferes with their ability to be fair and impartial.
The judge calls them in, what did he say, what did you hear, what is the impact?
HEMMER: That's on the outside of the courtroom.
PIRRO: Right.
HEMMER: On the inside, is the prosecution showing in any way that Laci Peterson was killed for money?
PIRRO: You know, I think the prosecution is presenting a different motive. There is a motive of maybe Scott wanted to be with Amber. That's a possible motive for his killing her. Now there's a question as to whether or not there's a financial motive. If her jewelry was pawned after her death, number one, we have to find out who pawned it. But I think most significant is that she had a diamond pendant that she apparently never took off and that she said she even slept in, that was left on the dresser in her bedroom.
So let's make no mistake here, we're not talking about a burglary in her home. Her home was not burglarized. A pendant that she wore every day is on the counter. Why is it on the counter?
HEMMER: We have heard from countless analysts already. They say the prosecution's really going slow at this, even slogging their way through.
Do you perceive it the same way?
PIRRO: Not at all. It's a circumstantial case. It's piece by piece. It's thousands of pieces of information that the jury has to bring together.
HEMMER: Do you take a chance, though, do you take a chance at losing the jurors' attention through all this?
PIRRO: No. What you do is you cover every base, because when that jury goes into the deliberation room, they're going to want to know, Bill, what about this, what about that? The prosecution has an obligation. We have to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt. That's what they're doing. HEMMER: Another case, Kobe Bryant. Apparently they want the text messages that were sent by the accuser to either family members or friends in the days or hours after the alleged assault took place.
How significant could this be?
PIRRO: Well, I think it's part of the open discovery that we're seeing in the Kobe Bryant case. It's kind of unusual to get a text message from someone who's not a victim, not the defendant. And what we have here is someone that the alleged victim communicated with. He was very opposed to that text message being released. The judge says wait a minute, there are a lot -- there's a lot at stake. We're going to get that text message and give it to the defense.
HEMMER: At this point, do we have any idea what was sent?
PIRRO: No, but I'll tell you we're all interested in finding out what it was, and that's what the defense is doing here. They've got the public so interested, there is so much out there in the public domain that we're trying to find out now what are the facts based upon what they think happened.
HEMMER: On our e-mail yesterday, Jack had a great question. He wanted to know whether or not our viewers agreed with or even liked or even wanted this idea that jurors in a criminal case for the first time can actually file their own questions.
Is it a good idea or not?
PIRRO: What do you think the chances are that a juror is going to think of a question that Pamela Mackey or Mark Geragos hasn't thought of? What this is, it's a feel good effort and there's only one or two states in the country that even allow it by statute. And what you have are jurors now becoming participants instead of observers. And there are those people who think that it's not a good thing, that it's going to take more time, it's going to create appellate issues.
HEMMER: Let me take the converse. If you're an attorney on a case, whether you're a defense attorney or a prosecuting attorney, does this give you a better idea about what jurors are thinking?
PIRRO: Sure.
HEMMER: That may help your own case?
PIRRO: Absolutely.
HEMMER: So then why not like that?
PIRRO: Well, it gives us a bird's eye view into what the jurors are thinking and where we need to gear your case. But at the same time, there are those who think, on the defense side, that it shifts the burden of proof, that it helps prosecutors by having jurors ask questions.
HEMMER: Moore to talk about next time.
Thank you, Madam Prosecutor.
PIRRO: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Jeanine Pirro here, D.A., Westchester County.
Always good to have you.
PIRRO: Thank you.
HEMMER: Across the room now to Heidi, who has the news now -- Heidi, good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, Bill.
And good morning to you, everyone.
The wife of kidnapped American Paul Johnson making an emotional appeal for his release.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THANOM JOHNSON, HOSTAGE'S WIFE: Please, I want to see him come back to see me. He don't do anything wrong. He unite with the people. I never see him have a problem in the 10 years in here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The American contractor was reported missing last Saturday. Johnson's captors said earlier this week they will kill him if Saudi officials do not release al Qaeda prisoners. Their 72 hour deadline is today.
American soldiers coming under fire in Iraq again this morning. The military says insurgents attacked a patrol near Ba'qubah. Two militants were killed, but no U.S. casualties reported.
Meanwhile, an Iraqi official says martial law could be declared in the country if attacks against civilians persist. A car bombing outside an Iraqi Army recruiting center in Baghdad yesterday left at least 35 people dead.
In Washington State, Fort Lewis is getting a presidential visit this morning, the first one in more than six decades. President Bush is meeting at the post with the Army's so-called Striker Brigades. One unit is in Iraq and the other could soon follow.
President Bush heads to Nevada later today. Arizona Senator John McCain is expected to join him on the campaign trail.
And the Olympic Torch halfway through its U.S. tour now. The flame stopped in St. Louis yesterday. The city hosted the Olympics 100 years ago. The torch heading to Atlanta today and then on to New York City, right up here. And we've been mentioning, our Carol Costello is going to be carrying that flame. O'BRIEN: Oh, she's carrying that today.
COLLINS: So cool.
O'BRIEN: Isn't that great?
COLLINS: Yup.
O'BRIEN: She said the advice she got was to do it nice and slowly and savor every moment, because I guess the actual length that you run is not that long.
COLLINS: I think it's a hundred yards.
O'BRIEN: Yes. So it's short.
COLLINS: Pretty short.
O'BRIEN: So, go slow.
COLLINS: Yes.
O'BRIEN: That's what she was told.
COLLINS: Exactly.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Heidi.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Luna, the killer whale, was friendly, in fact, so friendly that the Canadian government thinks he is a danger to himself and boaters, as well, and they want to send him back to his family. But a local Indian tribe says that Luna is family.
Michael Shoulders reporting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL SHOULDERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the idyllic setting of Nootka Sound off Vancouver Island, Canada, we are watching a bitter custody dispute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just off to our cruise to go check on the whale. We're going for a canoe ride for now.
SHOULDERS: A custody dispute over a killer whale that may be too friendly for its own good. On one side, in their dugout canoes, singing a traditional paddle song, members of the Mowachaht tribe are luring Luna the whale out to sea, not to harm him, but to keep him away from the other player in this custody battle, the Canadian Department of Fisheries, which has set up netting to catch Luna and reunite him with his pod, or extended family.
A few years ago, when Luna was only two, he got lost. Scientists believe he was swimming with his uncle when his uncle died and that Luna couldn't find his way back to the pod, and somehow he wound up here. Luna, like all orca whales, are family centered. They rarely even leave their mothers when they're grown up, which helps explain why Luna so eagerly seeks out people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on. Oh, yes.
SHOULDERS: At the containment ship. The Canadian government says that's one reason this whale must return to his family in the wild, that he and the boaters could accidentally hurt each other.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Too friendly. I'm afraid he's going to flip somebody over.
SHOULDERS: So why is the Mowachaht tribe so determined to keep Luna in this area? The current chief of the Mowachaht says his late father's spirit lives in Luna, that before his father, Chief Ambrose, died, he said he wished to come back to life as a cocawin (ph), a killer whale, and shortly after Chief Ambrose passed away, Luna arrived.
The only party that does not have a voice in this custody battle is Luna's family. But scientists are confident of this -- if Luna could get close enough to hear the sounds of his family, Luna would make the right choice.
Michael Shoulders, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: That's beautiful country up there.
O'BRIEN: Yes, it is.
HEMMER: Vancouver is so, so nice.
O'BRIEN: A beautiful whale, huh?
HEMMER: Yes.
Yes.
In a moment here, Give Me A Minute stops by. Democrats have been hitting the White House for about three years now. Now there is an attack coming from the right. We'll get to that, among other topics.
O'BRIEN: Also, some scary news about your credit that could keep you from buying a house or opening a bank account or even getting a job. We'll explain, as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
COMMERCIAL
HEMMER: Back to Jack and the Cafferty File, and a good one today -- good morning.
CAFFERTY: Good morning. Before we get to that, there's a rumor that the mailbox for the e-mails is about to get up and running again. And the question has to do with how funds for homeland security should be allocated, which you knew if you had joined us a couple of hours ago. But that's the thing we're fiddling with on the Question of the Day. And assuming they get the problem fixed, we'll read some e-mails some time.
On to The File. There's a new way to get your daily serving of vegetables. The U.S. Department of Agriculture has now defined frozen French fries as fresh vegetables. A Texas judge has endorsed the change, which was made very quietly last year, after a request from the French fry industry. However, the classification applies only to commerce and not to nutrition. It does, however, bring back memories of the attempt back in 1981 to classify ketchup as a vegetable.
See, you put a little ketchup on your French fires, you have a salad.
HEMMER: Score one for Idaho.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
Men can now ensure their chest hair. Lloyd's of London says it created the policy after getting a call from an agent of an unnamed celebrity. "The Daily Telegraph" says men can be covered for up to $1.8 million. To qualify, they must have lost 85 percent of their chest hair in an accident and it must be verified by two experts. However, hair loss from nuclear contamination, terrorism or war is not covered, and neither is loss due to hunting on horseback, hand gliding or fire eating. Presumably, women who have lost their chest hair can also qualify for the insurance.
And finally this, one of the more electric moments in all of live television. Bill Hemmer, a few weeks back, interviewed this kid Malcolm Locke, 12 years old in Florida, who had gotten into a scrape with an alligator. Locke was swimming. He got away from the gator by punching it in the nose and then the most exciting time of his entire life, he got on national TV to do a live interview with our own Bill Hemmer.
And this is how that went.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Take us back to what happened. You jump into the lake and then what? When do you see that gator?
MALCOLM LOCKE: I saw it when -- I was just underwater. I just saw it. It came at me with its mouth open sideways.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: Malcolm, a lot of us have the same reaction around here. Locke was left with a scratch on his head. He got some souvenirs of his fight with the gator, including a 14 inch gator skull and a tooth from a 165 pound animal. According to the "Atlanta Sentinel," Locke's grandmother also gave him a gold alligator charm with the inscription, "Gator boy's victory."
O'BRIEN: That was like a 10 second yawn he did.
HEMMER: That was a big one.
O'BRIEN: At the start of your interview.
HEMMER: I don't think he slept all night. I think he was heavily medicated.
O'BRIEN: Yes, he had a lot of pain.
HEMMER: Giving the bandage -- the size of the bandage (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
CAFFERTY: Yes, sure, blame it on the medication. It had nothing to do with the guy asking the question.
O'BRIEN: It was just a bad interview.
HEMMER: Right. There was that, also.
CAFFERTY: It was the medicine.
O'BRIEN: Not an exciting...
HEMMER: You know, the frustration is palpable with you today, knowing the e-mails are down.
CAFFERTY: Well, it's a, you know...
HEMMER: This is like...
CAFFERTY: I don't think...
HEMMER: That gets you going.
CAFFERTY: It's Friday. You know what I look forward to on Friday? Doing "In The Money." So I'm already focused ahead to my next assignment. Nothing bothers me. I'm very calm, very mellow, very at peace with myself.
HEMMER: Good for your profession.
O'BRIEN: Very Zen.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
HEMMER: And plenty of chest hair.
O'BRIEN: Moving on, shall we?
Still to come this morning, rumor has it that John Kerry wanted him as a running mate. Well, there's no chance of that happening now. What John McCain plans to do in the months leading up to the election, as AMERICAN MORNING continues. COMMERCIAL
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 18, 2004 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Was Saddam Hussein planning terror attacks against the U.S. inside the U.S.? Russian President Vladimir Putin shedding a whole new light today on the threat from Iraq.
The White House firing back in the media and the commission of 9/11. The vice president says he knows things that commission members may not.
And a killer whale looking for his family -- why some people say his family is human, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Bill Hemmer and Soledad O'Brien.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.
Welcome, everybody.
Some of the stories that are making headlines this morning, some breaking news coming to us from Russian President Vladimir Putin this morning, comments, saying that the Russian intelligence service warned the U.S. several times it had learned that Saddam Hussein was planning terrorist attacks against the United States. Of course, this could have significant bearing on the number of subjects, the 9/11 Commission, for one; the war in Iraq for another. We're going to get into all of that in just a few moments.
HEMMER: Jill Dougherty standing by live in Moscow. We'll get you there in a moment.
Also, a very interesting day of testimony in the Scott Peterson case. Does a pawn ticket prove that someone else had Laci Peterson's watch after she was killed? One of the first twists from defense attorney Mark Geragos as the trial unfolds. We'll talk to a prosecutor about what this evidence may mean in a moment here.
O'BRIEN: Mr. Cafferty, good morning.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How you doing, Ms. O'Brien?
We're having some mailbox problems, computer glitches, which is why we haven't done any e-mails. But the gerbils are working on it and we should have it fixed, oh, by Sunday afternoon, something like that. So you may want to tune in then. Coming up in the Cafferty File, we'll bring you an update -- actually, we're going to revisit one of the funniest pieces of live television I can remember in a very long time. It has to do with that kid in Florida who punched an alligator in the nose and then went on national TV with my friend Bill Hemmer. It's just, we've got an update on the kid. But the video, it's just worth revisiting just to watch the tape.
And as promised yesterday, we were preempted by the commission hearings, but we are going to find out which body part men can now buy insurance for.
HEMMER: You call him gator boy, right? One of our viewers said he yawned like the MGM lion.
CAFFERTY: Is that right?
HEMMER: Full throttle.
O'BRIEN: He was on a lot of drugs, I think.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jack.
We want to start this hour in Moscow.
As we mentioned last hour, a startling revelation today by Russian President Vladimir Putin -- Saddam Hussein was planning terror attacks against the U.S., inside the U.S. and outside after 9/11, and prior to the war. This according to Russian intelligence. Moscow passed the information to the White House before the war began.
Back to Moscow and our bureau chief Jill Dougherty.
Jill, what more have you learned -- good afternoon there.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they really are very interesting comments coming from Mr. Putin. He made them, by the way, out in Kazakhstan. And I want to see the full quotes from what he's saying. But what he initially, we're hearing, is very, very interesting.
He said that the Russian special services, the intelligence services, as partners and colleagues as they are with the United States, passed on this information several times, repeatedly was the word he used, information that Saddam Hussein's official forces, official services were plotting to carry out these terrorist attacks both in the United States and abroad, on both civilian and military targets.
Now, he pointedly said that they -- the Russians do not have any information that Iraq was actually involved in terrorist acts. And he also said that President Bush himself thanked the head of one of the Russian intelligence services for this information, which he considered very valuable.
So it raises a lot of questions. We really have to try to put this into context. But what he is saying sheds a completely different light on some things in the run-up, again, that period after 9/11 and up to the invasion of Iraq.
HEMMER: And, Jill, a couple of pointed questions here. You worked at the White House before you went for your tour or duty in Moscow, where we find you again today.
Why now? Why is Vladimir Putin just publicly speaking about this today?
DOUGHERTY: Well, it happened in a news conference, apparently. So it could be a follow-up to a leaked story that came out, in fact, yesterday. Nobody quite knew what it all meant. But it was apparently a leak from the Russian intelligence services with basically the same points that the president is making.
Now, you'd have to ask yourself if that is the case and Russia was against the war in Iraq, wouldn't that maybe sway Russia in toward the position of the United States to support the invasion of Iraq? Mr. Putin, in fact, was asked that question and he said no, the position of Russia remains the same. We were opposed to it, but it was on completely different grounds. He said it's a completely different issue. That, the invasion, he said, was, the issues there were international law, should you invade another country.
This is intelligence information. And, Bill, remember, Mr. Putin himself is a former KGB agent.
And then the other question is if this is the case, why didn't the Bush administration publicly use this or maybe even use it without saying who it came from? That question has to be given to the administration. But quite interesting to see what they would say...
HEMMER: The latter...
DOUGHERTY: ... because it would bolster their argument.
HEMMER: Indeed, you're right about that and that latter point you make, we'll try and sort that out on this side of the world here.
Another question, quickly, for you.
Did Vladimir Putin go to any extent to describe what sort of terror attacks were planned against the U.S., be it overseas or here in the U.S.?
DOUGHERTY: No. From what we know, he did not go into any specifics on that.
HEMMER: All right, Jill, thanks.
Good reporting.
Jill Dougherty there live in Moscow.
Much more when we get it -- Soledad. O'BRIEN: President Bush has said -- has not said, rather, that he used the Russian information in his decision to go to war. But he did warn of a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda. Questions about that assertion arose in the 9/11 Commission's report. The administration responds that the commission was only looking at whether Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They didn't spend a lot of time on the question of Iraq and al Qaeda, except for the 9/11 proposition. That's what they were asked to look at. They did not spend a lot of time on these other issues. They've got one paragraph in the report that talks about that.
So the notion that you can take one paragraph from the 9/11 Commission and say ah, therefore that says there never was a connection between Iraq and al Qaeda is just wrong. It's not true. I'd love to go on, on all of this stuff. But the fact of the matter is there clearly was a relationship there.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda. This administration never said that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated between Saddam and al Qaeda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Former Illinois Governor James Thompson is one of the commissioners who's going to prepare that final report on 9/11 next month.
He joins us this morning from Philadelphia.
Good morning, sir.
Nice to see you.
JAMES THOMPSON, 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Good morning.
O'BRIEN: So, we hear from both President Bush and Dick Cheney clearly there was a relationship.
Does your report contradict what the White House is saying?
THOMPSON: Not at all. In fact, the report says that President Bush and Vice President Cheney are correct. It's a little mystifying to me why some elements of the press have tried to stir this up as a big controversy and a big point of contradiction, because there is none.
We said there's no evidence to support the notion that al Qaeda and Saddam Hussein collaborated together to produce 9/11. President Bush said that weeks ago. He said it again yesterday. The vice president said it again yesterday. I said it again yesterday in television interviews. What we did say was there were contacts between al Qaeda and the Iraqi administration of Saddam Hussein. And the president has said there were contacts. The vice president has said there were contacts. They may be in possession of information about contacts beyond those that we found. I don't know. That wasn't any of our business. Our business was 9/11.
So there is no controversy. There's no contradiction and this is not an issue.
O'BRIEN: He actually said more than just contacts. He said clearly there's a relationship and there were these long established ties.
But you're saying essentially that you're both right, so I'm going to move on.
THOMPSON: Right.
O'BRIEN: Earlier, we talked to Commissioner Tim Roemer and he said what was most shocking to him was -- from all of this testimony now that you've reached the end -- was just the degree of flexibility that al Qaeda has.
When it comes, though, to the response of the United States in the wake of these terror attacks, what did you find most shocking in your investigation?
THOMPSON: I wouldn't put it in the category of shocking. I'd put it in the category of frustrating and saddening. For years and years and years, since before the cold war and even after the cold war, our defenses were pointed outward. The threat was always going to be a Soviet bomber coming over. We would intercept it over the ocean and we would respond to it by scrambling fighters and shooting it down.
No one, no one contemplated that on a single day four American airliners would be hijacked and used as missiles within the United States.
Under those circumstances, not having trained for it, not having prepared for it, I think the air traffic controllers, particularly in the Boston and Cleveland and New York centers, performed heroically. They did their job, which was made much more difficult by the hijackers' act of turning off the transponders. And then these planes slipped on and off radar.
And the pilots that went up did their job. But oftentimes they didn't know where to go. Some of them were not armed because they were on training exercises when they took off.
Now, there were miscommunications between the White House and the military. Vice President Cheney's order to shoot down the planes never got transmitted in time. By the time they got that order in the military, the plane had already crashed because of the actions of the passengers. And there were miscommunications between the FAA and NORAD.
And one of the things we pressed all these people on yesterday was to make sure that those issues had now been fixed. And they said they were.
O'BRIEN: And I guess the question would be, though, since so many of those issues -- for example, we heard from the head of NORAD that the issues, now that the planes could get up and theoretically they could take out four planes if something as horrible were to happen again -- but, again, you talked about miscues between the FAA and the air traffic controllers. Beyond this being an event that no one had ever anticipated or experienced before, it looked like, from your own testimony read yesterday, that there was an inability for the FAA to get in on a conference call, that there were no secure lines. Sort of the basic things seemed to be missing.
THOMPSON: Right.
O'BRIEN: Have those things all been fixed?
THOMPSON: They tell us now that they've been fixed. And, of course, we're much more ready to get planes up in the air if al Qaeda or any other terrorist group should go to that method of attack again. What I fear is that that over concentration on the use of American airliners as weapons, surely much harder now in view of the security you go through to get on an airplane and the fact that the cockpit doors are hardened and they won't open, even if the plane is taken over, we may overlook other, more common methods of creating mass casualties or creating mass panic among the American people in another attack, which everybody tells us is sure to follow.
O'BRIEN: They do.
Former Illinois Governor James Thompson joining us this morning.
Thank you, sir.
THOMPSON: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Appreciate it -- Bill.
HEMMER: We want to go inside the courtroom now; two, in fact, at 12 minutes past the hour.
Strange new developments in the Scott Peterson double murder trial.
District Attorney Jeanine Pirro from Westchester County, New York back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING.
Good morning to you, Madam Prosecutor.
JEANINE PIRRO, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, WESTCHESTER COUNTY, NEW YORK: Good morning.
HEMMER: We wanted to take a look at something on the Web site for Court TV. An affiliate, a television affiliate in northern California saw juror number five going up to Laci Peterson's brother right at the metal detector there at the courthouse and had some sort of exchange that sounded like "lose today," the words from juror number five.
Is this appropriate?
PIRRO: Well, first of all, before we get all excited, we have to find out from the juror and from the other person to whom he spoke what was said. I mean it's inevitable that you're going to have jurors bumping into witnesses and participants in the trial. And it depends on what was said, whether or not it interferes with their ability to be fair and impartial.
The judge calls them in, what did he say, what did you hear, what is the impact?
HEMMER: That's on the outside of the courtroom.
PIRRO: Right.
HEMMER: On the inside, is the prosecution showing in any way that Laci Peterson was killed for money?
PIRRO: You know, I think the prosecution is presenting a different motive. There is a motive of maybe Scott wanted to be with Amber. That's a possible motive for his killing her. Now there's a question as to whether or not there's a financial motive. If her jewelry was pawned after her death, number one, we have to find out who pawned it. But I think most significant is that she had a diamond pendant that she apparently never took off and that she said she even slept in, that was left on the dresser in her bedroom.
So let's make no mistake here, we're not talking about a burglary in her home. Her home was not burglarized. A pendant that she wore every day is on the counter. Why is it on the counter?
HEMMER: We have heard from countless analysts already. They say the prosecution's really going slow at this, even slogging their way through.
Do you perceive it the same way?
PIRRO: Not at all. It's a circumstantial case. It's piece by piece. It's thousands of pieces of information that the jury has to bring together.
HEMMER: Do you take a chance, though, do you take a chance at losing the jurors' attention through all this?
PIRRO: No. What you do is you cover every base, because when that jury goes into the deliberation room, they're going to want to know, Bill, what about this, what about that? The prosecution has an obligation. We have to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt. That's what they're doing. HEMMER: Another case, Kobe Bryant. Apparently they want the text messages that were sent by the accuser to either family members or friends in the days or hours after the alleged assault took place.
How significant could this be?
PIRRO: Well, I think it's part of the open discovery that we're seeing in the Kobe Bryant case. It's kind of unusual to get a text message from someone who's not a victim, not the defendant. And what we have here is someone that the alleged victim communicated with. He was very opposed to that text message being released. The judge says wait a minute, there are a lot -- there's a lot at stake. We're going to get that text message and give it to the defense.
HEMMER: At this point, do we have any idea what was sent?
PIRRO: No, but I'll tell you we're all interested in finding out what it was, and that's what the defense is doing here. They've got the public so interested, there is so much out there in the public domain that we're trying to find out now what are the facts based upon what they think happened.
HEMMER: On our e-mail yesterday, Jack had a great question. He wanted to know whether or not our viewers agreed with or even liked or even wanted this idea that jurors in a criminal case for the first time can actually file their own questions.
Is it a good idea or not?
PIRRO: What do you think the chances are that a juror is going to think of a question that Pamela Mackey or Mark Geragos hasn't thought of? What this is, it's a feel good effort and there's only one or two states in the country that even allow it by statute. And what you have are jurors now becoming participants instead of observers. And there are those people who think that it's not a good thing, that it's going to take more time, it's going to create appellate issues.
HEMMER: Let me take the converse. If you're an attorney on a case, whether you're a defense attorney or a prosecuting attorney, does this give you a better idea about what jurors are thinking?
PIRRO: Sure.
HEMMER: That may help your own case?
PIRRO: Absolutely.
HEMMER: So then why not like that?
PIRRO: Well, it gives us a bird's eye view into what the jurors are thinking and where we need to gear your case. But at the same time, there are those who think, on the defense side, that it shifts the burden of proof, that it helps prosecutors by having jurors ask questions.
HEMMER: Moore to talk about next time.
Thank you, Madam Prosecutor.
PIRRO: You're welcome.
HEMMER: Jeanine Pirro here, D.A., Westchester County.
Always good to have you.
PIRRO: Thank you.
HEMMER: Across the room now to Heidi, who has the news now -- Heidi, good morning.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, Bill.
And good morning to you, everyone.
The wife of kidnapped American Paul Johnson making an emotional appeal for his release.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THANOM JOHNSON, HOSTAGE'S WIFE: Please, I want to see him come back to see me. He don't do anything wrong. He unite with the people. I never see him have a problem in the 10 years in here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: The American contractor was reported missing last Saturday. Johnson's captors said earlier this week they will kill him if Saudi officials do not release al Qaeda prisoners. Their 72 hour deadline is today.
American soldiers coming under fire in Iraq again this morning. The military says insurgents attacked a patrol near Ba'qubah. Two militants were killed, but no U.S. casualties reported.
Meanwhile, an Iraqi official says martial law could be declared in the country if attacks against civilians persist. A car bombing outside an Iraqi Army recruiting center in Baghdad yesterday left at least 35 people dead.
In Washington State, Fort Lewis is getting a presidential visit this morning, the first one in more than six decades. President Bush is meeting at the post with the Army's so-called Striker Brigades. One unit is in Iraq and the other could soon follow.
President Bush heads to Nevada later today. Arizona Senator John McCain is expected to join him on the campaign trail.
And the Olympic Torch halfway through its U.S. tour now. The flame stopped in St. Louis yesterday. The city hosted the Olympics 100 years ago. The torch heading to Atlanta today and then on to New York City, right up here. And we've been mentioning, our Carol Costello is going to be carrying that flame. O'BRIEN: Oh, she's carrying that today.
COLLINS: So cool.
O'BRIEN: Isn't that great?
COLLINS: Yup.
O'BRIEN: She said the advice she got was to do it nice and slowly and savor every moment, because I guess the actual length that you run is not that long.
COLLINS: I think it's a hundred yards.
O'BRIEN: Yes. So it's short.
COLLINS: Pretty short.
O'BRIEN: So, go slow.
COLLINS: Yes.
O'BRIEN: That's what she was told.
COLLINS: Exactly.
O'BRIEN: Thanks, Heidi.
(WEATHER REPORT)
O'BRIEN: Luna, the killer whale, was friendly, in fact, so friendly that the Canadian government thinks he is a danger to himself and boaters, as well, and they want to send him back to his family. But a local Indian tribe says that Luna is family.
Michael Shoulders reporting.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL SHOULDERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the idyllic setting of Nootka Sound off Vancouver Island, Canada, we are watching a bitter custody dispute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just off to our cruise to go check on the whale. We're going for a canoe ride for now.
SHOULDERS: A custody dispute over a killer whale that may be too friendly for its own good. On one side, in their dugout canoes, singing a traditional paddle song, members of the Mowachaht tribe are luring Luna the whale out to sea, not to harm him, but to keep him away from the other player in this custody battle, the Canadian Department of Fisheries, which has set up netting to catch Luna and reunite him with his pod, or extended family.
A few years ago, when Luna was only two, he got lost. Scientists believe he was swimming with his uncle when his uncle died and that Luna couldn't find his way back to the pod, and somehow he wound up here. Luna, like all orca whales, are family centered. They rarely even leave their mothers when they're grown up, which helps explain why Luna so eagerly seeks out people.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on. Oh, yes.
SHOULDERS: At the containment ship. The Canadian government says that's one reason this whale must return to his family in the wild, that he and the boaters could accidentally hurt each other.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Too friendly. I'm afraid he's going to flip somebody over.
SHOULDERS: So why is the Mowachaht tribe so determined to keep Luna in this area? The current chief of the Mowachaht says his late father's spirit lives in Luna, that before his father, Chief Ambrose, died, he said he wished to come back to life as a cocawin (ph), a killer whale, and shortly after Chief Ambrose passed away, Luna arrived.
The only party that does not have a voice in this custody battle is Luna's family. But scientists are confident of this -- if Luna could get close enough to hear the sounds of his family, Luna would make the right choice.
Michael Shoulders, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HEMMER: That's beautiful country up there.
O'BRIEN: Yes, it is.
HEMMER: Vancouver is so, so nice.
O'BRIEN: A beautiful whale, huh?
HEMMER: Yes.
Yes.
In a moment here, Give Me A Minute stops by. Democrats have been hitting the White House for about three years now. Now there is an attack coming from the right. We'll get to that, among other topics.
O'BRIEN: Also, some scary news about your credit that could keep you from buying a house or opening a bank account or even getting a job. We'll explain, as AMERICAN MORNING continues.
COMMERCIAL
HEMMER: Back to Jack and the Cafferty File, and a good one today -- good morning.
CAFFERTY: Good morning. Before we get to that, there's a rumor that the mailbox for the e-mails is about to get up and running again. And the question has to do with how funds for homeland security should be allocated, which you knew if you had joined us a couple of hours ago. But that's the thing we're fiddling with on the Question of the Day. And assuming they get the problem fixed, we'll read some e-mails some time.
On to The File. There's a new way to get your daily serving of vegetables. The U.S. Department of Agriculture has now defined frozen French fries as fresh vegetables. A Texas judge has endorsed the change, which was made very quietly last year, after a request from the French fry industry. However, the classification applies only to commerce and not to nutrition. It does, however, bring back memories of the attempt back in 1981 to classify ketchup as a vegetable.
See, you put a little ketchup on your French fires, you have a salad.
HEMMER: Score one for Idaho.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
Men can now ensure their chest hair. Lloyd's of London says it created the policy after getting a call from an agent of an unnamed celebrity. "The Daily Telegraph" says men can be covered for up to $1.8 million. To qualify, they must have lost 85 percent of their chest hair in an accident and it must be verified by two experts. However, hair loss from nuclear contamination, terrorism or war is not covered, and neither is loss due to hunting on horseback, hand gliding or fire eating. Presumably, women who have lost their chest hair can also qualify for the insurance.
And finally this, one of the more electric moments in all of live television. Bill Hemmer, a few weeks back, interviewed this kid Malcolm Locke, 12 years old in Florida, who had gotten into a scrape with an alligator. Locke was swimming. He got away from the gator by punching it in the nose and then the most exciting time of his entire life, he got on national TV to do a live interview with our own Bill Hemmer.
And this is how that went.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Take us back to what happened. You jump into the lake and then what? When do you see that gator?
MALCOLM LOCKE: I saw it when -- I was just underwater. I just saw it. It came at me with its mouth open sideways.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CAFFERTY: Malcolm, a lot of us have the same reaction around here. Locke was left with a scratch on his head. He got some souvenirs of his fight with the gator, including a 14 inch gator skull and a tooth from a 165 pound animal. According to the "Atlanta Sentinel," Locke's grandmother also gave him a gold alligator charm with the inscription, "Gator boy's victory."
O'BRIEN: That was like a 10 second yawn he did.
HEMMER: That was a big one.
O'BRIEN: At the start of your interview.
HEMMER: I don't think he slept all night. I think he was heavily medicated.
O'BRIEN: Yes, he had a lot of pain.
HEMMER: Giving the bandage -- the size of the bandage (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
CAFFERTY: Yes, sure, blame it on the medication. It had nothing to do with the guy asking the question.
O'BRIEN: It was just a bad interview.
HEMMER: Right. There was that, also.
CAFFERTY: It was the medicine.
O'BRIEN: Not an exciting...
HEMMER: You know, the frustration is palpable with you today, knowing the e-mails are down.
CAFFERTY: Well, it's a, you know...
HEMMER: This is like...
CAFFERTY: I don't think...
HEMMER: That gets you going.
CAFFERTY: It's Friday. You know what I look forward to on Friday? Doing "In The Money." So I'm already focused ahead to my next assignment. Nothing bothers me. I'm very calm, very mellow, very at peace with myself.
HEMMER: Good for your profession.
O'BRIEN: Very Zen.
CAFFERTY: Yes.
HEMMER: And plenty of chest hair.
O'BRIEN: Moving on, shall we?
Still to come this morning, rumor has it that John Kerry wanted him as a running mate. Well, there's no chance of that happening now. What John McCain plans to do in the months leading up to the election, as AMERICAN MORNING continues. COMMERCIAL
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
